a day after the faire as it is a Visible Church we haue not detrested pag. 44. to haue Communion with it as Babylon we haue nothing to do with it He that before was too fine too wittie for you now speakes confusedly strangely You see we haue learned to distinguish betwixt the Church the great whore in the Church with the Church wee yet hold communion in many things though that from Babylon wee separated long agoe He whom I suppose you will not in hast teach to speake spake in this manner As the Apostle doth say of Mr. Hooker Eccles Pol. lib. 3 §. 1. Israel that they are in one respect enemies but in another beloued of God in lâ—ke sort with Rome wee dare not communicate concerning sundrie her grosse and grieuous abominations yet touching those maine parts of christian truth wherin they constantly still persist wee gladly acknowledge them to be the family of Iesus Christ and our hearty praier vnto Almighty God is c. Your distinction therefore of the Diuell in his Essence and as a Diuell with the rest of that stamp you were best lay vp till a deare yeare CHAP. VI. Of the charitable profession of zealous Luther AT length wee are come to consider the weight of zealous Luthers speech Wee confesse that vnder the Papacie is much good nay all yea the very kernell of Christianitie To this M. Burton answereth that be spake this pag. 45. before the Councel of Trent was hatcht and died when they began to be assembled It is well hee did so for had he liued but a while longer he had sure been a fauourer of Poperie as well as Caluin who liued after that Councell and yet confessed the Church of Rome to bee a true Church as wee haue shewed Yet by his leaue if this were true when Luther liued it is as true now If they haue added more errour yet haue they taken away no more truth otherwise than virtually and by consequence Luther thought it not likely or possible that the Church of Rome should bee much more corrupt than it was when hee published at Wittenberg so manie â—ropositions contrarie to the Romish Religion a Sleidan Com. lib. 1. And Hist of the Councell of Trent lib. 1. 95. in number which preâ—ently brought about his eares Teceâ—ius Eckius Siluester Prierias Hogostrat and I know not how many more Luther thought the Church of Rome wicked enough when hee affimred â—hat b â—tiam si nâ—hil praetâ—râ—a peâ—catum fuisset in doctrina Pontificia quà m quód docuerunt nos debâ—re vagaâ—i fluctuare amâ—â—â—ente duâ—ios de remissione peccatorum gratid salute noâ—tra iustas tamen haberemus causas cur ab Ecclesia infideli nâ—s seâ—ungâ—remus Luth ad cap. 41. Gen. If they could not haue bin blamed â—or any thing else but onely for teaching â—hat we must wauer and doubt and â—lwaies remaine vncertaine of the reâ—ission of our sins of grace and saluatiâ—n yet should we haue iust cause to separate from that infidelious Church Thâ— ground therefore of Luthers speecâ— was Not that hee saw not erroâ— enough but that he knew there wâ— likewise all truth Vnder it indeedâ— as our diuine Bishop obserueth oppressed ouerwhelmed yet there iâ— was The Councell of Trent haâ— ioyned Traditions to the Scriptureâ— making them together the rule â— Faith but before that time Luthâ— complained that hee could not haâ— audience out of the Scriptures bâ— the frigid decrees of Popes and thâ— fooleries of Schoole-men were obtruded in stead thereof In a word nothing was decreed in the Councel of Trent which Luther had nâ— gaine-said before that time So thâ— the errours are the same they were but established vnder a more peremptory forme CHAP. VII Of the Deane of Glocesters Authority BVt here the Authoritie of the Reuerend Deane of Glocester is Dr. Feild alledged in his Treatise of the Church Lib. 3. Cap. 47. and it is desired that hee may take vp the matter 7 Vialls pa. 45. Peace is amiable and the mediation of wise men is to vs very acceptable The Person is Reuerend neither will wee dissent from him in any thing without due respect had to his place and learning But wherefore when you are vrged with a cloud of witnesses in this very cause doe you 7. Vialls pa. 51. reiect them as priuate persons whose opinions must not prescribe against truth Caluin Bucer Beza Melanchton See the reuerend Bishops Apologie Mornay Deering Iunius Raynolds Param Hooker Perkins c. all these you sleight and would haue vs bee tryed by one onely who indeede is Reuerend but All these much more Yet as if hee distrusted this alledged Authour somewhere else hee wilâ— haue him to Vmpire the Cause in thâ— one place Feare not a wise man wilâ— not contradict himselfe and it is â— receiued Rule in reading both the Scriptures and the Fathers and 〈◊〉 Writers That the clearer places are to interpret those that bee more obscure But because you shall acknowledge your selfe in our debt we yeelde yâ—â— this request though vnreasonable but vpon this condition that if Dr Field be found to speake against yâ—â— rather than for you you neuer appeare more in this cause Courteoâ—â— Reader the passages are but short therefore reade and iudge The wâ—â—thy Deane bringeth in Bellarmâ—â—â— obiecting against vs that by the coâ—fession of our owne Writers Luther and Caluin c. the Church of Româ— is a true Church What now dotâ— he answer to this He saith not Tâ—â— before the Councell of Trent they were a Church but none since buâ— grants him That they might in some sense truely say that they were a true Church But saith he neyther Luther nor Caluin nor any of vs doe acknowledge that the Popish Religion is the true Religion or the Romish faction the Orthodoxe Church of God See then wee may affirme Rome to bee a true Church and yet the Romish cause gaine nothing by it for the Popish Religion is neuer a whit sooner the true Religion and though we giue this attribute to the Church of Rome yet the Romish faction is nothing the better for it for all this while they are not the Orthodoxe Church of God Where me thinkes the Deane giues more than we delire for wee haue alreadie distinguished betwixt the Church of Rome and the Faction of Rome and this we doe not hold to bee a Church at all much lesse the Orthodoxe Church of God He proceeds to speake of the Councell of Trent touching which hee layeth downe his opinion in these words The generall and maine Doctrine agreed vpon in the Councell of Trent in such sort as it is most generally conceiued is damnable But there are noe doubt some of a better Spirit The French receiue not the Councell of Trent to this day and haue in them particularly a better conceit of things than generally is holden So that the faith of the Councell of Trent is not
our Church should deny that there is lawfull ordination in the Church of Rome What then â—â— is there no God in Israell nor balmâ— in Gilead must wee goe to gatheâ— grapes from the Romish hedges and deriue Bishops of Christ from the Sea of Antichrist iâ— is to be vnderstood all this while that wee pleâ—â— our owne cause the Reformed Churches in other parts want nâ—â— learned Patrons of their owne the weakeâ— soâ—t may perhaps be offendes hereat sed Cordatiores norunt tâ—â— Dr Prideaux Oâ—at de Vâ—â—at Minist wiser vnderstand that the Scribes Phariseeâ— sometimes sate in the chaire of Moses and that Iudas baâ—e the office of an Apostle and sometimes the Euill haue chiefe autheritie Article â—6 in the Ministration of the word and Sacraments saith the confession of our Church for it is one thing the power of teaching another the puritie of Doctrine nor doth hee that by superstition or heresie letteth goe puritie of Doctrine presently lose his authoritie and facultie of ordaining as Aarons Idolatry hindred him not from transferring the Priesthood to his posteritie Who is ignorant that they which are baptized by heretickes are truely baptized and likewise that those which are admitted into the Ministâ—ie by such are truly ordained we regard not the qualitie but the authoritie of him that conferreth holy Orders As we rebaptize M. Hieren his answer to the Popisâ—â—â—me How can shee make a lawfull Priest if she be not the church of Christ none that haue receiued Baptisme in the Church of Rome so wee doe not ordaine them anew which haue taken Orders from that See when they become conuerts If they haue sworne to any Errour or Heresie of that Church that wee cause them to abiure but we suppose them truly inuested in the Order oâ— Priesthood By this we hope it is euident thâ—â— there is yet a little strength in tâ—â— Sinfull Church of Rome forasmucâ— as there is true Baptisme whereiâ— they are baptized into Christs truâ—â— and not the Popes errours and tâ—â— shee hath not wholly lost the face â—â— a Church for there is true and lawfull ordination wherein they receiâ— Commission and do promise to teaâ—â— the people not the Popes legendâ— but out of the holy Scriptures sâ— that both Pastor and flocke are oâ—â— by admission promise and engagement theirs by abuse and practise Neither shall the precipitate speeches and rash censures of any maâ— euer preuaile so farre with vs bâ— that we will still beleeue and hope and pray that hee which called Iob â—mongst the Heathen and the Queeâ— of the South by the bare report oâ— Solomon and giueth that instinct oâ— nature vnto creatures walking in a pasture where venemous herbs are mixed with wholsome to make choise of that which is proper for them and abstain from the contrarie will giue the guidance assistance of his Spirit to his number vnder the tyranny of Antichrist to do the same that so his calling bee not still in vaine the ordination wholly vnprofitable or that admission in Baptisme alwaies frustrate that is to be the sauour of death vnto death and in none the sauour of life vnto life and herein we doubt not but we are heard euen before we ask CHAP. XII Our fift Argument prouing from our manner of disputing with Papists that they doe not directly deny the foundation of our faith IN those many parts of knowledge about which the mind of man is conucrsant some such groundes there are which being proposed 〈◊〉 minde doth presently embrace them as free from all possibilitie of errouâ— cleare and euident without proofe Such are those Principles in Philosophy that the whole is greater thâ—â— the parts c. Those axiomes oâ— reason that the greater good is to â—â— chosen before the lesse that wee mâ—â— doe vnto others as wee would bee dâ—â— vnto our selues A sentence whiâ—â— St. Augustine saith all Nations vndâ—â— heauen are agreed vpon and of suâ—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thâ—ophâ—asâ—us things as these to demand a reasoâ— were to take away reason Othâ—â— things there are which although theâ— be not so manifest in themselues yeâ— such is their plainenesse that eueâ— easinesse it selfe maketh them hardâ— be disputed of and to this numbeâ— it seemeth to mee that the matter about which wee now contend may well bee reckoned wherein foâ— ought I can perceiue they whiâ—â— oppose vs haue not brought so muâ—â— as probabilitie of reason to bâ—câ—â— their opinion much lesse that substantiall reason and demonstratiue 7. Vialls p. â—8 proofe wherewithall they beare vs in hand For if the present question to this day had neuer beene moued nor any word or syllable sounding that way were to bee found amongst the Writings of the Diuines of the Reformed Churches yet such a generall tacit concent there is amongst them herein and so vniuersally doe they conspire in this that the Church of Rome doth not directly deny the foundation of Faith that their assent may necessarily bee euinced if wee doe but consider their manner of disputing against them of that faction The Fathers in the Primitiue Church when they wrote Tertullian the Booke which hee calleth Apologeticuâ— Arnobius and Lactantius his Scholler against the Gentiles Chrysostome his Orations against the Iewes Eusebius his tenne Bookes of Euangelicall demonstration they stand in defence of Christianity against them by whom the foundation thereof was directly denied But the Writings of the Fathers against M. Hâ—oker his discourse of iustification Nouatians Pelagians and other Heretickes of the like note refell Positions whereby the foundation of Christian Faith was ouerthrowne by consequent onely In the former sort of writings the foundation is proued in the latter it is alledged as a proofe which to men that had beene knowne directly to deny must needs haue seemed a very beggarly kinde of disputing In like manner our proceedings against Papists in disputing against them do shew not onely that they hold but that wee acknowlehge them to hold the foundation Doe wee goe about to proue to them this truth thâ—â— Christ Iesus came into the world to saue sinners Doe wee not alledge iâ— as a proofe What say wee against transubstantiation but this That if our Lords Maiesticall body haue now any such new property by force whereof it may euery where really euen in substance present it selfe or may at once be in many places then hath the Maiestie of his estate extinguished the verity of his nature Against the merit of workes what do wee alledge but that Christ alone hath satisfied and appeased his Fathers wrath Christ hath merited saluation alone Wee should begge the question wee should doe fondly Vide Thomam part 1. quaest 1. aâ—tic 8. to vse such disputes neyther could we think to preuaile by them if that whereon wee ground were a thing which wee know they doe not hold which wee are assured they will not grant To be copious herein were to light a candle at noone day and I
ascended vp on high he gaue gifts vnto men to some to Eph. 4. â— be Apostles some Prophets some Euangelists for the worke of the Ministery â—nd for the edifying of the Body of Christ To these he gaue his Promise That he would be with them alwaies Mat. 28. 20. to the end of the world Solomon had a Vineyard in Baal hamâ—n hee let it Cant. 8. 11. sorth vnto Keepers This Vine-yard is the Church the Keepers to whose â—â—elage and care our blessed Lord typified in Solomon committed his Church were at the first Apostles and Apostolicke persons their Successours to the worlds end in their function and Ministeriall office 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 men consecrate and set a part for that purpose whose is the power of the keyes and the office of laying on of hands conueying that grace vnto others which themselues haue receiued that so the Church of Christ neuer be destitute Where soeuer there be persons retaining thâ—â— power howsoeuer otherwise exceeding blame-worthy which I ofteâ— inculcate because I would not beâ— mis-vnderstood there wee cannâ—â— deny that there is the true Church of Christ And our Aduersaries â—â— this cause see that they cannot gaine their purpose vnlesse they strip the Church of Rome of this priuiledge There is no Ordination no Ministery 7. Vialls pa. 36. and so downe ward no Baptisme â—â— Christianitie The eares of our Diuines are well accustomed to thoâ—â— importune clamours of our Aduersaries of the Church of Rome botâ— for our Church in former ages â—f you hâ—d a Church before Luther wherâ— were your Pastors and since the reformation finding their cause desperate in the particulars of it they inueigh against our Clergy You haue no calling you haue no more right â—â— meddle in things sacred than yoâ—â— Wiues or Daughters you are no Ministers you runne before you are sent you are Intruders and Theeues that enter not in by the doore of the fold but climbe vp aâ—other way Wolues and Lay-men no Priests and therefore you haue no Sâ—â—râ—ments nor Seruice of God This is the voyce of Bristow Howlet Saâ—ders Câ—â—pian and the rest of that rabble Now if it be obserued what wee answer to the first and bow wee refute the latter calumny it will soone appeare what wee are to determine in this matter First then we affirme That no man hath â—â— doe in this office but hee that is lawfully called thereunto Who euer intruded himselfe with impunitie and without dangerous arrogancie into this functâ—on The hand of Ieroboam is withered and Oziaâ— though a King is smiâ—ten with Leprosie for touching those things which were holy without a calling thereunto This is that whereby wee may discerne the Priests of the Sanctuary from Ieroboams Priests of whom wee reade that whosoeueâ— would might consecrate himselfe Christ suffereth not the Diuell to tell 1. King 13. that he knew him becaâ—se as one nâ—teth Mark 1. 25. hoc presumed without a calling â—â— publish the truth The Diuell could easily espy the want of Commissioâ— in the Sonnes of Sceâ—a when they adiured him by the name of Iesâ—â— whom Paul preached Iesuâ— I acknowledge Acts. 19. and Paul I know bâ—t who aâ—â— yee Your warrant is not good yoâ—â— counterfeit charmes are not strong enough to remoue me The reason is manifest No man taketh this honour to himselfe but hee that is called of God as was Aaron Secondly Heb 5. 4. Wee auerre no lesse confidently that it belongeth vnto the Church onely to send those who shall hauâ— authority in the Ministration of holy things Shee receiued the Keyes at the hands of Christ and to her it appertaines to deliuer them to those that shall vse them Shee hath heâ— Commission As my Father sent me so I send you For this cause I lâ—ft thee in Iohn 20. 21. Creâ—t saith St. Paul to Titus that thou Tit. 1. 5. mightest ordaine Elders iâ— euâ—â—y Ciâ—ie â—â— I appointed thee Without this there can be no Oeconomie nor order in the Church wee should haue as many seuerall opinions as seuerall â—â—n Ordination therefore and laying on of hands the Church hath â—ommanded to be retained and performed with all solemnitie That a Bishop should bee ordained â—â—ther by the whole Prouince or by a Councell or according to the Canon Canon Apost 1. by three or two Bishops at the leâ—st â—he Metropolitane if it be possible beeing present and promoting the businesse What Priesâ—â— and Deacons should bee ordained with dueâ—ites and ceremonies and prayers in the face of the Church that 〈◊〉 people might acknowledge their lawfâ—ll Pastors Thirdly For those thaâ— before Lâ—ther had the Popish tâ—â—sâ— in detestation they might â—cknowledge euen them of the Church Dr. â—ridâ—â—â—x Lâ—ct de Vâ—siâ— Eâ—cleâ—â—a of Rome for their Pastors so farre forth as they had a lawfull calling and preached Christ howsoeuer a for as much as they oftentimes feed others who themselues eate nothing or giue good corne mingled with a great deale of chasâ—e Fourthly and lastly for our Ministery at this day wee answer them That eyther it iâ— Lawfull and Canoâ—icall or else they haue none seeing tâ—at wee haue receiued it from them though they weâ—â— vnworthy to conferre it as they â—â—om their Predecessours and ours in Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction It is worth the while to obserue the impudencie of our Aduersaries iâ— this matter how when they cannot answer vâ— they betake themselues to their wonted trade of lying Thus goes the â—â—le Sâ—ory Sandes and Griâ—dâ—ll say they â—ee by appoâ—â—â—menâ— at the sigâ—e of the Nâ—ggesâ— heâ—â— in Châ—â—pe side to Loâ—den and 〈◊〉 that the old Bishop of Lâ—â—dâ—ffe whâ—â— they expected for their Canonicall Consâ—â—ratoâ—â— had withdrawne himselfe for the threats of â—onner they layed hands one vpon another Our Diuines passe not this ouer in silence but giue a precise and punctuall answer to it Not onely our Reuerend Bishop whose cause wee haue now in hand answering his Egregious Cauiller in that golden Worke of The honour of the married Clergie but diuers others of our choysest Diuines who Dr. Prideaux orat de vocatione Ministror M. Mason in the defence of the Ministry of the Church of England seriously refute this Fable euidently shewing out of the vndeniable Recordes of our Church not onely at what time by whom in what place euery one of the â—orenamed Bishops was Canonically consecrated but also touching B. Iewell Parker and others who preached at the consecration of euery one of these and likewise what were their seuerall Texts And left these turne coates should persist herein and still tickle their Proselytes in the head with this tale our right Reuerend Arch-Bishop that now is caused foure of the learneder sort of their Priests â—â— be brought who beheld and viewed these Recordes before sufficient witnesses and promised to certifie the truth to the rest of their partie Thus we perceiue that it is a thing hitherto vnheard of amongst vs that any Member of