Colledge though in the great remote end they both agree But you fly to that poor shift of bidding me take heed of absurd and ridiculous Suppositions not argumentative c. As if you had shewed any absurdity in these Suppositions Or as if plain undeniable Instances had no place in Arguments or Answers but were ridiculous Suppositions and he that would say that a Kingdom is greater than a Family and the King than a Master or Major used a ridiculous Supposition Just thus the poor Nonconformists are perswaded by your Pithonalogy to subscribe swear c. But I seem you say to assert this my self by saying there is a small difference between Bishop Usher's Model and the present Answ It 's tedious disputing with one that must have still another Writing to help him to understand that which he will first confute yea and seemeth not willing to understand It is a fallacy A dicte secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter I only askt you What Farthing doth it take from their Estates What Title from their Honour Power Negative voice even their Lordships and Parliament places But is this the Question We then laboured to satisfie the unsatisfied Ministers that not only Bishop Usher's Reduction but even the King's Declaration about Ecclesiastical Affairs had changed the very species of Prelacy without any of those Abatements If you would know it is by one word Consent restoring the inferiour Pastors and Churches though not to their Integrals yet to their Essentials And we were so inclinable to Conformity that on that supposition we had Conformed had but that Declaration stood though some of the Sects are of another mind whom you Arguments would confirm For we judge that a Bishop of one only Church consisting of five hundred or a thousand Chappels or Congregations that are strictly no Churches as having no Bishops doth specifically differ from a Bishop of a thousand Churches which have every one their proper Bishop and so he is truly an Archbishop or General Bishop But I am not to trouble you with this And now how impertinent was it to bid me Rub up my Philosophy about Maximum quod sic minimum quod non Know you not that the common use of those Writers are to intimate the same thing that I am saying against you That there is a subjective maximum minimum which only are capable of the relative form But I am next turned to Vossius de invoc sanct of which he hath there disputed and one Histor Thes and I am not told which of them but the words are in the first Thes 49. to prove that the Saint in Heaven and those on Earth make one Society Quare cum nihil obstat quo minus unius civitatis cives dicamur nec causae quicquam erit quo minus aeque civilis honos dicatur qui civibus coelestibus exhibetur quam qui civibus terrenis Nam grad◠quidem honores isti differunt sed uterque tamen est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And was it possible that you should think that this made for you Because the world or Universe of Rationals are one Body or Society and so civil honour is the same thing as such in genere to them in Heaven as to them on Earth doth it follow that in this universal Society there are no Kingdoms Cities or Families specifically different Nor no different species of the civil honour what not to Kings Parents Masters What a thing is factions Interest Vossius only proveth Generical Identity of civil honour and the specifical difference of it from the honour of Religious Adoration The Church universal is one and the love and honour which we owe to the Saints in Heaven and Earth is Generically of the same kind But do you believe therefore that there are no subordinate Species of Churches and Honour on Earth What not the Honour due to the King the Bishop the Chancellor the Parish Curates the Deacons and the Beggars Yet all this with you are Premises sufficient to conclude And then it may be you may give leave to Magis minus non variant speciem to be a Maxim still See what Evidence it is that must perswade us to Nonconformity Are they not worthy to be silenced and branded as you have done that can resist such Light But you come to the quick and say Is there no Communion but personal Answ Yes else they could not be two ends to make two Societies You add Many of the Kings Subjects never saw his face yet they have many Hands and Eyes in respect of their subordinate Officers so have Diocesans in their Curates Answ Very true And that proveth that a Kingdom is one Society and a whole Diocess also one Ignoras Elenchum But doth that prove that there are no subordinate Societies in these Which though subordinate in point of Power yet specifically differ Is there no such thing as Personal Communion in presence because there is such a thing as distant Communion of another sort For all that your terms of Hands and Eyes would hide it I scarce think you are ignorant that under the King there are Heads as well as Hands and Eyes Heads of Families Schools Colledges Universities Corporations Cities who are constitutive parts of real Societies which are not of the same species with a Kingdom though in it And if Archbishops be of God's appointment so it should be with Archbishops and Bishops and every Church should have a Bishop But if you will not have it so but we must only have a Bishop and Curates and a Diocesan Church and Chappels you betray our Cause to the Brownists who easily prove No Bishop or Pastor no Church in sensu politico And so when you have granted them that we have no true Parish Churches there are few of them whose Wit is so weak as not to disprove the pretended right of such Diocesan Churches as consist of the Carkasses of many hundred mortified Parish Churches § 50. My Answer I must not repeat take it how you will you here come to the very Controversie I will not begin it with you because I cannot prosecute it I have so much to say on it as at these rates may engage you and me in dispute for many years if we lived so long which I find no reason allowing me to undertake Get me leave to Write and Publish it and I will write you a just Volume of it since it is published till then I again tell you I have said enough though too negligently in my Dispute of Church Government though one hath nibled at the Forms of some Arguments in it If you would have more answer Gers Bucer Parker and Ames's fresh Suit to name no other § 50. I shewed the invalidity 1. Of your Licitis honestis 2. And of former Obedience sub poena anathematis as nothing to our case in hand and do you deny what I said and disprove it 2. I tell you that so far as Bishops or
a Church and I take not Heathens for the Church XIII I believe that in this Universal Church are thousands of particular Churches and this by Christs Institution XIV I believe that there is no particular Church or Christian on earth who is not respectively as Visible or Mystical a part of the Universal Church XV. As every worshipping Assembly is a Church in a larger sense so a Church in a political sense is essentially constituted of the Pastor and People or the Sacerdotal guiding and the guided parts and of such a Church it is that I am speaking XVI As such meeting in transitu are an Extemporate transient Church so fixed Cohabitants ought to be a Church accordingly fixed related to each others as such for longer than the present meeting XVII Every such Political fixed Church should consist of a Pastor at least accordingly fixed to a cohabiting people and as their Pastor more specially related by obligation and authority to them than to strangers or neighbour Churches He is not bound to do that for all as he is for them nor may go into other Pastors Churches with equal power nor officiate where he please XVIII If there be no Church but the Universal than there is neither Parochial Diocesan or National nor are Assemblies Churches Nor is our King the Royal Governour of any Church for of the Universal he is not XIX Christian Princes must do their best to settle faithful Pastors in all Churches that is according to the Laws of Christ but not against them But as they must do their best that all their Subjects may have good Phycisians Schoolmasters Wives or Husbands Servants Dyet Cloathing c. but yet are not trusted by office to choose all these for every one and impose them on Dissenters because the same God that made Kingly power did first make personal and paternal power which Kings cannot dissolve so every man is so nearly concerned for his own Salvation more than for Wife Servant Dyet Phycisian c. that though he must thankfully accept of all the Rulers lawful help he is still the most obliged chooser Nor is it any part of the office of a King to choose and impose on every Subject a Guide or Pastor to whom only he shall trust the Pastoral conduct of his Soul any more than a Physician or a Tutor for him XX. Parish-bounds are not of Primitive or Divine Institution but cohabitation or propinquity is a needful qualification of setled Members gratia finis And Parish-bounds are a useful humane determination according to the general Rules Do all to edification and in order XXI No one is a Church-member merely because he dwelleth in the Parish for unbaptized Infidels Heathens Atheists may dwell there XXII Nor is a stranger a Church-member for coming into the Assembly for such as aforesaid or Jews Mahometans may come in XXIII A Pastor oweth more care and duty to his flock than to the rest of the world as a Physician to his Hospital Therefore he must know who they are better than by knowing that they dwell in the Parish nor may he Baptize them or give them the Lords Supper only because he seeth them in the Assembly or in the Parish else Jews and Heathens must have it XXIV Nor is he to give it to every one that demandeth it for so may Jews and Heathens that take it in scorn or for by-ends XXV Yet a Christian having a valid Certificate that he is such hath right to transient Communion with any Church of Christ where he cometh but for order the antient Churches used not to receive them without some Certificates from the Churches that they came from lest Hereticks and Excommunicates unknown persons should be every where received XXVI No man can be an adult Christian without signified consent nor a stated member of any particular Church without such consent no nor a lawful transient Communicant without consent For so great benefits none but consenters have right to nor can such relations be otherwise contracted XXVII Consent not signified nor known is none to the Church XXVIII A man may be obliged to consent that doth not but that makes no man a Christian or member of the Universal Church else Millions of Infidels and Heathens are Christians And so it maketh no one a member of a particular Church that he is obliged to be one nor am I a Pastor over any men as a Church because they are obliged to take me for their Pastor no more than that is a Husband Wife Servant who is obliged to be so and will not To say that I am a Pastor to Heathens as a Church is a contradiction or that I am their Pastor as my special Christian flock and particular Church-members that consent not XXIX But the same man that liveth among such may be to consenting Christians a Pastor and to Refusers Infidels or Heathens a Teacher The Church ever distinguished the Audientes and Catechumene Candidates from the Fideles who were the Members of the Church XXX No Pastor or people should impose any Covenant on any adult to be Christened but consent to be Christians signified by Baptism nor on any in order to transient Communion among strangers but just notice of their Christianity and understanding consent to that Communion nor on any in order to their being the stated Members of this or that flock and particular Church but due notice of their Christianity and of their understanding consent to what is essential to such members that is to the relation as essentiated by the correlate and ends XXXI No one should be obliged by covenant to continue one year or Month in the station of that particular relation because they know not when Gods providence may oblige them to remove or change it XXXII Though the Peoples consent be necessary to their relation their Election of the Pastor which signifieth the first determination who shall be the man is not absolutely necessary though of old so thought An after-Consent may serve ad esse relationis XXXIII Much less is it necessary that the people choose who shall be ordained a Minister unfixed and only of the Universal Church XXXIV 1. Mutual consent of the duely qualified Ordained and Ordainer determineth who shall be a Minister in the Church Universal as consent of the Colledge and the Candidate do who shall be the Licensed Physician 2. The Peoples consent and the Ministers instituted determine who shall be the Pastor of this particular Flock or Church 3. The King determineth whom he will tolerate countenance and maintain XXXV Though a man may be Ordained but once to the Ministry unfixed in the Universal Church to which I said the Peoples consent is not necessary yet may he be oft removed from one particular Church to another on just cause to which the peoples consent if not Election is still necessary Though to avoid Ambition the old Canons forbad Bishops to remove XXXVI It 's lawful to be ordained sine titulo
A THIRD DEFENCE Of the CAUSE of PEACE PROVING 1. The need of our Concord 2. The Impossibility of it on the Terms of the present Impositions Against the Accusations and Storms of VIZ. Mr. John Hinckley A Nameless Impleader A Nameless Reflector or Speculum c. Mr. Cheney's Second Accusation Mr. Roger L'Strange Justice c. The Dialogue between the Pope and a Fanatic Varney's Phanatic Prophesie By RICHARD BAXTER Psalm 120. 6. 7. My Soul hath long dwelt with him that hateth peace I am for peace but when I speak they are for war Rom. 3. 17. The way of peace they have not known London Printed for Jacob Sampson next to the Wonder Tavern in Ludgate-Street 1681. Readers IF this striving work be unpleasant to you it must be much more so to me It is not the least advantage that Satan getteth against the Church that by other mens sins he can occasion that to become our duty which else would be a sinfull loss of time and against the peace of our selves and others A multitude of heresies make it our duty to read abundance of Books and study those languages and trifling Arts which else were needless And the multitude of Erroneous malignant and other adversaries and the variety of their assaults maketh many Defences Evidences Witnesses and Confutations necessary which else would signifie that evil Contentiousness which the assaulters manifest Though the servant of the Lord must not strive yet must we contend earnestly for the Faith and must not forsake and betray truth and innocency And the necessitated Defender may do his duty while the wilfull Aggressor doth sinfully militate against Truth Charity and Peace And as we must love our Enemies so we take our selves bound much more to love our tempted envyous brethren and if they use us as Joseph cast us into the Pit and sell us as slaves we will call them brethren still and hope one day their repentance will render them more lovely than they are And though some Preach Christ in Envy Strife and Contention to add to our affliction and not sincerely we rejoyce and will rejoyce that Christ is Preached And though they would drive us out from the inheritance of the Lord 1 Sam. 26. 19. We will not venture with David to curse them but say as he in another pursuit 2 Sam. 15. 25. 26. Carry back the Ark of God into the City If I shall find favour in the Eyes of the Lord he will bring me again and shew me both it and his Habitation But if he thus say I have no delight in thee behold here am I let him do to me as seemeth good to him In my endeavours for peace these Thirty Four Years as I have been put to publish many things which I had rather might have been spared so I have written to satisfie others the Quantity of many Volumes which I cast away as unnecessary to the World But some men that I have dealt with will not give me and the Reader such an indulgence Mr. Dodwell is one who shall have his answer by it self Mr. Hinkley is another to whose last Letter I wrote an answer about Nine Years ago But he would not so bury his Talent but hath printed my former Letters with his answer and so called and constrained me to publish my last reply Fame reporteth that the Impleader is Mr. Long of Exeter who heretofore wrote an Accusing Book of which I gave him a private Epistolary Animadversion Who the Reflector or the Author of the Speculum is I know not the Subject calleth me to no particular Answer He and Mr. Roger le strange who argue in the same Mood and Figure make me little work which concerneth others They mistook the question as if it had been what the World should think of me In which I leave them to their Liberty without much contradiction But our question is First whether the Concord of Protestants being supposed necessary the silencing imprisoning fining and banishing from Corporations all Ministers that take Conformity to the present Impositions to be a sin be the way of Peace and Concord either probable or possible to attain the end Mr. John Cheny I judge a godly serious man who being neer me and familiar with me never told me a word of his exceptions nor gave me the least touch of a private Admonition for all the Atheism Infidelity Wickedness Abomination destroying all Religion c. Which he accuseth me of in print And his Book is so dismal a piece of work in its extraordinary privation of Common Reason Truth Charity Tenderness and Modesty that I am constrained to think that the honest man is diseasedly melancholly And I have known some well meaning men in that disease that are so tenacious of all their own Conceptions that they are still fiercely confident that the grossest things that they hold and say are right and passionately reject all that is said against them Whom he hath reported to be his Instigator I shall not here proclaim The Dialogue between the Pope and a Phanatick and Varney's Prophesie I leave the Reader to answer himself as he findeth cause If any man think it a service to God to accuse me and others and justifie our silencing and the imposed penalties I intreat him to remember the Ninth Commandement and that God and his Church need not Lies for their Service but it s he that is both the Father of them and a Lyar from the beginning That was a lying Spirit in the Mouth of all Ahabs Prophets even of him that smote Micaâ—ah for supposing the Spirit of God departed from him and whose work on Earth against Christ and Souls is done by Deceit and Wrath and Hurtfulness Imitating him will disgrace your cause and you And Light will not so easily be hid Great is truth and will finally prevaile And all the waves do but break themselves who dash against this impregnable rock I call this Book A Third Defence of the cause of Peace with respect to two former One in answer to the Accusation of Mr. John Cheny the other in answer to Dr. Edward Stillingfleet men whom I once thought more unlikely than most other to become our Accusers All Mr. Gouge's WORKS POlitical and Military Observations of the Court and Camp of France during the late Wars in Flanders Germany c. Sacramental Meditations upon divers select places of Scripture wherein Believers are assisted in preparing their hearts and exciting their Affections and Graces when they draw nigh to God in that most awful solemn Ordinance of the Lords Supper By John Flavel Minister of Christ in Devon 12o. price 1 s. 6 d. A peaceable resolution of Conscience touching our present Impositions wherein Loyalty and Obedience are proposed and settled upon their true Foundation in Scripture Reason and Constitution of this Kingdom against all resistance of the present Powers and with compliance with the Laws so far as may be in order to Union With a Draught or Specimen
account of the Reasons of his Non-conformity This one man tells him that no Licenser will license it That he hath not Printed without License before his importunity since the Act That some few Printers through poverty have ventured on a few Sheets which they could quickly slip out of the way But now severity having encreased their penalty he knoweth not of one man that will venture so far That if they would it will do him no good who hath so much to say against Conformity as a few sheets will not contain and he knoweth not of that man living that would Print And that should he do it he must look for such an Imprisonment as is likely to be his death And therefore he thinketh that his Time and Life may be more usefully employed especially when Experience assureth him that such a Writing would passionately displease the Prelates of the Church and such as call for it And therefore that he did not ingenuously that clamoured thus for an account when he knew that all these Manacles were on our Hands Yet will not this man be convinced but his Clamour was reasonable and innocent because in a few Sheets that accidentally had an advantage to see the light being both for the Kings and the Churches Government he met with a few words which he thought were not to be licensed And if this were published without License it was most long of himself since his foresaid urgency no such thing being done before nor do I know how to procure the like again This is the true Case And now let any sober Person Christian or Heathen judge betwen us whether any thing could have hardned you into an impossibility of Conviction but the great aversness to Humiliation and Repentance and selfish inclination to be righteous in your own eyes No wonder if no man be justified as Legally innocent when a bare Confession of a deliberate printed sin as visible as a beam in the eye as Christ meant it is so hardly obtained with some men And because with what measure men meet it shall be measured to them again Wonder not if you meet with Auditors like your self Suppose that You whose Office is to Preach Men to Repentance do hear the Perjured the Drunkards Blasphemers the Fâ—rnicators say This man is a Rayler he drops smarting poyson upon us in his Sermons When we hear him we deal with a Woolf and put our hands into a Hornets nest bitterness and reviling is his Dialect We are innocent and all that he saith doth not convince us What would you say to such returns But too many think that it is their work to preach Repentance and other mens to Repent As for Magistrates forbidding faithful Ministers to preach the Christian Faith where there are not enough more to do the Work Cannot you be content with the Honour Comfort and Reward of approving it and suffer such to be without it as refuse it But when you say Alas Church censures without the Magistrate are but brutum fulmen I will presume to tell you 1. That you seem to me to come near to Blasphemy to intimate that Christ ordained so vain a Discipline What and yet be the Infallibe Teacher and King of the Church But if you think that He did not Institute it tell us so plainly and pretend not more to an unalterable Divine Institution which all of us must swear never to endeavour an alteration of Or if you think that Christ did institute Church Discipline to be exercised only when the Sword will second it say so that we may know your mind And then 2ly Do you not make the Apostles and the Primitive Church for above 300 years to have abused the World with this brutum fulmen If you talk of the Apostles power of seconding it by miraculous Penalties I answer 1. It cannot be proved that they did so ordinarily but only extraordinarily 2. All Pastors and Churches then had not that power that yet were obliged to exercise Discipline 3. The Church for 300 years had not that power every where 4. And Discipline was to operate propria virtute and not only by Miracles So that you reproach the Apostles and all the ancient Churches 3. Do you not reproach all the ancient Councils and Canons of those times as making such a stir in the World about a brutum fulmen 4. Do you not reproach Constantine and other Christian Emperors who for a considerable time adjoyned not the Sword at all to the Churches Keys except to remove some great Patriarch that had influence on the State and long after did only force them to a quiet submission to the Discipline without the addition of another Penalty or constraining any to say they did repent How long was it before the Church took a man to be meet for her Communion in the Lords Supper that had but rather say that he repented than have all taken from him and lie in Prison 5. Do you not here tell us what you trust to even the Magistrates Sword alone And do you not disgrace your Cause and Function in telling the World in plain English that without the Sword Prelatical Discipline is but brutum fulmen What then would your Church be should the King leave it only to an equal Toleration with all other Parties 6. And do you not highly honour us Non-conformists that desire no greater matters than bare Leave to Exercise Christs Discipline without the Sword on Volunteers we would have no more If any have formerly desired more we disown it The Scots indeed had more but when Cromwell left them but their Liberty their Discipline proved not brutum fulmen And truly I see not how those few among them that are against the Supremacy of the King Circa sacra if there be any such can expect any further protection or help by his Sword than a bare Toleration Let us but Preach and use this brutum fulmen and then enjoy your Lordships Honours and all that is desired And why are you so greatly afraid of a brutum fulmen in our hands when you confess it to be no better in your own § 4. If you cannot see your Contradictions repeating them will not open your Eyes As for Valentine and Orson and Knights Errant I give you the honour of being better acquainted with them than I am 2. And next you teach us that according to your School a Question may be false Well! so let it be you shall there have the better also I knew no more but that some kind of Questioning might imply a Proposition which is false But I will not strive with you if you are wiser The Question was How many of these Ministers have little more Learning than the English Books have taught them If this Question be false false let it be I cannot make it true I would I knew what How many fignifieth And what could I do more to detect your falshood than Name you many that dwell about you Seven neare
you I named And now O the power of Innocency and worth all those for their Gravity Sobriety Learning and Peaceableness you have as much esteem for as I can have And really I hope as bad as they and their adversaries judge each other were they all better acquainted with each other the rest would constrain their afflicters themselves to such a praise and approbation an inconsiderable number only excepted But who else should I name in the County where you live and near you Mr. Joseph Baker Mr. Benjamin Baxster Mr. George Hopkins Mr. Waldern c. are dead Those living are Mr. Ambrose Sparrey your predecessour at Hampton Mr. Andrew Tristram Mr. Kimberley Mr. Osland Mr. Badland of Worcester Mr. Sergeant Dr. Richard Morton Mr. Stephen Baxter Mr. Richard Dowley Mr. Cowper Mr. Paston Mr. Read I cannot remember all Tell me how many and which of those you mean The Elder about you dead were on our side Mr. Arthur Salway Mr. John Hall Mr. Thomas Hall your next Neighbour Mr. Smith at Dudley Mr. Smith at Stoke a younger Man and not far of Mr. Anthony Burgess Mr. Blake c. which of these mean you And what if you can Name one unlearned Man in Forty or Fifty If he be but a meer Nonconformist and not of some such Sect with whom we have not much more affinity than with the Papists who conform not and yet say they are nearer to you than to us I doubt that odd unlearned Man should he but conform would be a great ornament to your present Church But what course can one better take to silence such Calumnies and to convince Posterity of such mens incredibility than to Name the persons round about How many hundred worthy men in London and a few Counties of my acquaintance could I Name you And you say it is a usual Stratagem with us to possess particular persons with an opinion that you detract from them It is bad arguing Syllogizare ex particulari Excellent Logick He that condemneth the Non-conformists and the ejected Ministers as meer illiterate doth not condemn the Individuals though it came in with an How many I never said that you condemn them all but I askt you as you did me How many And is this like syllogizing ex particulari Do you intimate an Accusation against Many of them and when I name almost all of that County neer you will you absolve them all 2. Next you say Those I intended have your suffrage Because I said I had rather have a meer English Divine than an Hebrew or a Syriac Sot It seems you are of another mind A Sot will serve to preach Divinity and seek mens salvation We feel the judgment of more than you and this was enough to set you upon blew Aprons c. How forgot you Tub-Preachers 3. And you would fain steal some honour to your self from the Universities as a Defender of them O happy advantage But who accused them I said I am grown of late years to take it for no very great honour to our young Preachers that they are acquainted with the Universities And you put It is for I take it and so I take it still But late years signifieth not always nor our young Preachers all Preachers Doth he that dishonoureth the University deserve honour for being at the University What young ones you have I know not but our young ones that I speak of do not yet go about to change my mind Do you think all those named though he did not well by the Glocester Cobler Ralph Wallis are an honour to the University or it to them I still take it for no very great honour I said not none for any ignorant idle Lad to have been at the University But sure I obtruded not this judgment on you or any other Yet here is place for Corah's holy Congregation eclipsing the two Luminaries Agamemnon the Sodomites and more such stuff And shall it be the Controversie whether you or I have written more for Learning and Universities and which of us did more to save them from the Anabaptists and other Fanaticks when they were endangered The visible Evidences shall decide the Case You may be more beholden to the Universities than I but I have done more than wish their prosperity as well as you But Quidvis ex quovis is your way There went about Eleven or twelve out of Kederminster Parish and School to the University and Ministry in my time and many since If you please enquire of the difference 3. And when you tell me that I deal no better with the Primitive Fathers I first ask you how could you make shift to be ignorant how ill you use the ancient Presbyters yea and Bishops of the Church your self were they not mostly blew Aprons with you and such as you disdain for want of Hebrew c. Know you not that the Paucity of Learned Presbyters was the true Cause that the few that were such got the place and honour and power of Bishops above the rest And how few Philosophers turned Christians then And how long it was before the Christians had many considerable Schools much less Universities And what men the common Presbyters were yea and the Bishops for the most part Alexandria by Pantaenus Clemens and Origen kept up some competent Learning Basil Nazianzen Nissen Chrysostom were fain to go to such as Libanius and to Athens except those forenamed and Justin Martyr and Tertullian before them and Hierom after how few either Linguists or Philosophers had we And yet do not you account those holy and worthy men blew Aprons such as Ignatius Polycarpus Irenaeus yea and Cyprian almost all the Bishops of Rome Graeg Neocaesar Antonius Ab. Pachomius Macarius yea Epiphanius himself Ephrem Syrus Isidore Pelesiota Ambrose Philastrius Theoph. Alexand Ruffinus Gaudentius Maximus c. Besides Simeon Stillita and all the holy Famous Monks yea Augustinus himself the best rational Divine had little enough of the Tongues Their Writings easily prove all this with the Historical Descriptions of others concerning them I said I think it so short a Work to read the few brief Writers of the three first Centuries as maketh it more a dishonour to be ignorant of them than any great honour to be acquainted with them Instead of this you feign me to say It is no great honour to be acquainted with them But is this true Is a Positive and a Comparative Assertion all one But it seems you are not of my mind But take it for a greater honour for a Minister to know them than a dishonour to be ignorant of them And who vilified them more then you or I If I say that it is a greater dishonour to be ignorant of the Alphabet of the Grammar of the Gospel than honour to be acquainted with them so as to know what is in them and you denied this who vilified them most Have you no greater matters than these to exercise your censorious faculty on You know
under Christ as Prophet Priest King all essential to the Office as to send others as his Curates to do this For the King may send others or to exercise some degree of Discipline himself over many Churches where he is none of their Teacher not Mouth nor Guide in Worship Prayer Praise Sacraments c. Nor is it the same work to be an unusual Teacher as one may be in another Church or School and to be the stated ordinary Teacher and Worshipper of that Churrh which is the end of the particular Pastors Office 2. And the Correlate proveth the difference For it iâ— not the same Relation to be a Ruler of a Family and of a Kingdom and so here which bring me to the proof of the Minor by the second part And that the Correlates are various is evident no only from the magnitude but the end also ther included For the subject of Political Society Civitatis vel Ecclesiae is a Community not an multitude of men Because that which Aristatâ—calleth Privatio and is better called Disposuâ—materiae is necessary as a kind of Principle to thâ— reception of the Form As in Physicks so quianalogum in Relations And therefore it must bâ— a Community Now Communities themselves are first specified by their various ends As a Company of men combined for Merchandize and a Company combined for Literature or for Souldiery c. are not the same So a Company combined for Personal Communion and helps in holy Worship and living are not the same with those combined for other ends as aforesaid Therefore neither the Pastors nor Peoples Relation and consequently the Churches is not of the same sort 3. Where there are distinct Fundamenta vel rationes fundandi there are distinct Relations But here are distinct fundamenta c. The fundamentum is 1. Principall which is Institution Divine or Humane 2. Subordinate which is Consent Viz. 1. Of a Minister to gather Churches Consensus duplex Dei Ministri 2. Of a Minister to guide Churches gathered Consensus triplex plerumque quadruplex viz. 1. Dei 2. Ordinati 3. Populi 4. Plerumque Ordinantis If any of these vary the Fundamentum relations doth so far vary were it not tedious I would shew you how much difference there is in all these But it is the first Reason that being most edent I most insist on Now your Reason to the contrary for your Affirmative is that Gradus non variat speciem To which my Answer being that Quando variat aut finem proximum seu terminum vel fundamentum vel relatum correlatum variat relationis speciem But frequently Gradus materiae variat finem proximum fundamentum c. Ergo speciem The Major needeth no proof the Minor I cleared by the instance of a Ship a Church a Spoon c. where magnitude or parvity can make this difference You tell me Relatives do not suscipere magis minus Answ The clean contrary is an usual Maxim with Logicians But that is so plain that it needs no dispute viz. Quoad subjectum fundamentum aliquando materiam correlati It may be found in divers degrees but not in degrees of matter uncapable of the End and Form But the forma Relativa doth not so vary one is not magis vel minus haec relatio than another But if you will extend this to the Matter of the Subject which is our Case you do but though mistakingly give away your Cause For then every new Member maketh a new Church in specie when you say This is only in respect of quantity You know that Aristotle saith That Quantity non suscipit magis minus and so his Interpreters say speaking strictly and not laxly Therefore it 's this you must mean as I do while you would say something that we may seem to differ I told you that different quantities in the subject may change the relations which I think never man denied that understood what a Relation was And you feign me to say simply That Magis minus variant speciem in relatives That you may have occasion to say as I said under pretence of contradicting the same thing But to my Instances you say That it is enough for your purpose that there is not a specifick difference between a little Spoon or Diocess and a great one Answ Say you so our Question is Whether different Degrees in the subject may vary the species of Relations Either you deny it or you do not If you do common Experience and Reason will shame your denial I instanced in a Spoon a Church a Troop Regiment Army a Ship c. Wheresoever the finis proximus as in all Offices and Societies is essential to the Relation there no man of Logical acquaintance can make a doubt of it but that certain Quantities or Degrees in the Subject may be so over great or over small as to be uncapable of that End and consequently of the Relation I will not censure you to be so ignorant as to doubt of it and if I do not you force me to judge you so heedless or partial as to say something towards the hiding of that truth which you do not doubt of I say that Degrees in the Subject or Correlate vary not the Species but when they vary the specifying end some Relations are founded only in Actions past as Pater filius in Generation Creator creaturae in Creation And there the end following is not essential But it is otherwise with those Relations which consist in an Authority Obligation undertaking of a future work as a Teacher Physician c. where the Work as undertaken is the essential end And you had here no better a shift then to dissemble in silence the other Instances and to tell me that a great Spoon and a little one differ not specie But doth that prove that it may be in specie a Spoon if if be as big as a Ship or in specie a Ship if it be no bigger than a Spoon Since you perceive your own deceit which is by transferring the Question are ad nomen and then by choosing Instances de nomine where the Name is never used generically but only for one species The name of a Spoon is never taken for a Ship contra And therefore to say that a little Spoon and a greater differ not speeie is but to say that the same species is the same as being found in a capable degree of subject But a Society a Church yea a Diocess are names generical or analogous which may be and are applyed to various Species The universal Church headed by Christ is no more of the same species with a particular Church than a Kingdom and a Corporation in that Kingdom are I use not words to hide things but to render them intelligible A thousand Schools combined under a general Schoolmaster or an hundred Colledges making up one Academy are not of the same species with one School and one
Chancellors are the Kings Officers to Govern the Church circa sacra by the Sword we will swear and perform Obedience to them under the King in licitis honestis But I told you they that take them for the Usurpers of Spiritual power will easily prove it to be lawful to swear Obedience to Usurpers in licitis honestis will you deny that 3. And I told you that it is another Oath that is imposed on us to take But did you well to say You produced the words of Ignatius to prove the antiquity of swearing to Bishops who saith not a syllable of any such thing And untruly say I took no notice of it when I told you that Ignatius mentioned not Oaths but only actual Obedience This is no notice with you But do you not know how late it was before swearing Obedience to Bishops came into the Church and by what sort of men and to what end and effect § 52. Your talk of Cartwright confirmeth me of the vanity of the Hypocrites reward the praise of men there being nothing so false which may not by some men be said of them with boldest confidence If Cochleus or his like do but say That Luther learned of the Devil that Calvin was a stigmatized Sodomite c. all their Followers can ever after say It is in Print So Mr. S. P. some body Printed this you say And Heylin saith He promised What just the same or to the same sense as I told you I voluntarily subscribed when I might by the Kings Declaration have chosen meerly because I would have them know our minds and peaceable resolutions I told you why he that can promise to live peaceably c. cannot subscribe and swear the Approbation of all in that Liturgy Government c. which he liveth peaceably under But this is nothing to you if Cartwright Conformed first Prove it by credible History 2. Why then could the great Earl of Leicester procure no more liberty for him than an Hospital in Warwick and no Church 3. I have lived in Coventry and been oft in Warwick and know by all credible testimony of Neighbours that it 's false and no such thing as his Conformity was there dream'd of any further than I Conform 4. Why did he never declare it to the World nor retract his Writings 5. Your Heylin's own words intimate the contrary though I must tell you I owe as little belief to that Book of his as most Histories written by sober Protestants But you say much more Dr. Burges p. 377. observed That Cartwright opposed the Ceremonies as Inconveniences but not as unlawful and therefore perswaded men to Conform rather than leave their Flocks Answ 1. But the Ceremonies are but part and the lesser part of Conformity 2. Else had all Conformity been here included he was still a Conformist And how could you then say That at last he wrangled himself into Conformity if he was such at first 3. But if you cite him truly be judge your self whether Hoylin said true and what will be your case if you will report all that you find such men report 1. Dr. Burges's own words are but these pag. 423. The consideration of this necessity moved Mr. Cartwright to advise the wearing of the Surplice and Mr. Beza to resolve for the use of these Ceremonies rather than the Flocks of Christ should be forsaken for these And he citeth Cart. Repl. 2. So that here is not a word of Cartwright's Concession in any thing but the Surplice kneeling he was for The Answer of Amesius to his Father-in-law Burges is in these words Fresh suit p. 21 22. Whereas he addeth that Beza and Mr. Cartwright determined with them in case of the Surplice I answer 1. They did not so for the Cross 2. They did not so for subscription to either 3. They did not so but by way of toleration requiring also that men speak against the imposing of the Surplice 4. Beza was not throughly acquainted with the state of our Church Mr. Cartwright as I have been certainly informed by his own Son recalled that Passage of his Book and desired that his revoking of it might be made known Then followeth the Attestation of another to that report Do you see now how credibly S. P. Heylin and you report Cartwright to have wrangled himself at last into Conformity Be warned and take up false reports no more § 53. I thank you for shortning my trouble § 54. Waspish and faltering and raging after a tedious journey Are your Logicks above my skill to answer But adrem 1. It is a wonder to me that an Englishman should be in doubt who they be that drive men from the Parish Churches Enquire who drave away the People of Kederminster Did I I Preach'd I Printed long before That should the Liturgy be restored it were no sufficient cause c When I was silenced and might not Preach in publick the last Sermon that ever I preached to some at my Farwel in a private House was in conclusion to perswade all to keep to the publick Churches where the Ministers are not notoriously Insufficient as to the very Essentials or notorious Hercticks or Malignant Opposers not of differing Parties but of the certain Practice of Godliness it self But when I had done my best then and since by other means the Reading Vicar and one Sermon of the Bishops and one of the Deans and many of a Lecturers after and they saw so many hundred Ministers silenced it possessed them with so great a prejudice that till a good Minister came among them it was past my power to reconcile them to the Church nor is it done so fully as before I could easily have done 2. As to your second Questien When I told you how hardly the People would be driven tâ— Communion in your way You answered Haâ— they not been distracted distorted poysoned by other Tutors But since they have been taught like Wolves not to value the Scepter like Mastiff-dogs they will worry me to pieces Those that are lately perverted any way are most heady and â—ierce The Revolters are profound to make slaughter And after the Scribes and Pharisees compassed Sea and Land to make a Proselyte when he was made he was twofold more the Child of Hell than themselves These are your words And I thought I had used them very gently when I only say Whether all such Dissenters are such Children of Hell as you describe I might have added such Wolves Dogs c. I shall leave to a more wise and righteous Judge what is in these words Be impartial one hour before you die and compare them with your own and think how he that will say at last Inasmuch as you did it not to one of the least of these my Brethren c. will take all these Revilings of faithful Souls But how heedlesly do you read I said All such Dissenters as you described and were talkt of And you say all Dissenters There is no
by the Conformists 1. The Ministers are even to swear Obedience to the Diocesane and the Diocesane promise it to the Arch-Bishop And this is a Covenant and more 2. They are to attend him at Visitations and otherwise to express their consent to his Government which they do not to the Bishop of the Neighbour-diocesses 3. The Parishioners signifie their consent to their Relation to that particular Church and Incumbent by their constant Attendance Submission Communion c. 4. The Law and Canon command their Consent yea to keep their own Parishes though the Minister preach not at all suspending Neighbour-ministers that receive such to their Communion that come from such a Reader to them And the Conformists say that men are bound to obey these Canons § 31. Either Parishioners are supposed thus to signifie Relation-consent to that particular Pastor and Church or not If yea this Accuser falsly supposeth that no Church but the Independents do so If not then he giveth up most of their Cause to the Brownists that say the parish-Parish-Churches are none For it 's easie proved that Non-consenters are none Thus rash men confute themselves Nay we are all silenced for not Covenanting to the present frame of Diocesane Churches and never to endeavour an alteration Yet saith this man It is not in any of the Churches unless Independents neither explicite nor implicite Then none should so much as implicitely shew Consent to the Relation to his Diocesane or Parish-pastor or Church § 32. But saith he to me with gross falsehood Your Covenant is to this effect you shall not onely submit to me as your Pastor but binde your self by a particular antecedent Covenant so to do You shall dwell in the Parish and Covenant so to do c. Ans I wish that though design brought the word Covenant infread of Consent into his mouth it might not so long stick there as to choak his Conscience to think that any use of it is lawful Where and when did I engage any to dwell in the Parish If they dwell there I never hindred any from removing 2. But the Consent required is beforehand very true The Liturgie bids men come tell the Ministers before-hand that they desire the Communion Shall I ask them to consent to their duty when it is past Or can I know who are capable till I know who consenteth But saith he Why not à Church-Covenant for all other Duties Ans Why not a Marriage-covenant to make one a Priest c. Why not an Oath of Allegiance to make one a Coblar c. Consent necessary to the being of a Relation is one thing and Consent to every Duty is another which yet in general all Christians should promise sincerely to perform Must we write Books against such things as these § 33. To the Objection I am not bound to take every one that comes into the Parish for one of my Charge he hath no better answer than to tell us of Parish-bounds setled by law and binding me to do my best for all Ans Deceitfully confounding Charge the Genus with Church As if Heathens and Atheists and Papists and Refusers are of that Church because I have a Charge to seek their Conversion Or as if I had no special Charge of that Church 2. He did not see that he confuteth himself implying that we must consent because of the Law 3. And he forgot the many hundred years before Parish-divisions § 34. His zeal at last thus swelleth p. 129. I do utterly withstand it as wickedness and abomination in Gods Church I am to die and burn at a Stake before I yield to any such thing You make two Churches two Church-forms as two Baptisms p. 130. to teach Infidelity c. Ans Let him that thinks he standeth take heed lest he fall Alas for the Church whose Guides are no wiser and better men and tenderer Conscienced than he or I which ever is in the wrong 1. You will make me think you are deeply melancholy Is it so frightful a thing for me to say I will be no Pastor to any that consent not as to put you into talk of dying and burning at a Stake Had the Martyrs been burnt if men had been of this minde Did you ever know any put to death or burnt at a Stake for your Opinion Which is liker to be the burning party they that say We will rule none but Consenters or Volunteers or they that call this wickedness and abomination and so are for the contrary course Which Party hath killed more for Religion Reader you see my wickedness and abomination CHAP. V. I Had thought to have gone thus over the rest of his Book but it is such stuff that my Reason and Conscience bid me spare my own and the Readers time I. He begins with telling me what the Church of England is and all is worse than nothing Instead of telling me what is the Constitutive Formal Regent part he tells me of Bishops Pastors Convocation King c. as if he defined a Man to be one that hath a Head Eyes Liver Stomack c. II. It grieveth me to read what he saith of Popery 1. His Supposition that Popery is sound if the Particular Church be a part of the Universal having its subordinate form of Government under Christ's 2. His Supposition of the Emperour of Constantinople's turning Christian and becoming the Universal Prince and Bishop of his Empire as a lawful thing 3. His Supposition of the Pope's resigning his Place to St. Peter if he were alive c. 4. His Note that to claim but St. Peter's Place is not to claim Christ's with more such are unwise Temptations to Strangers to fear lest London-Air have done him hurt III. His many words about the Princes power to chuse Pastors for all his Subjects and that if faithful he is no Christian that refuseth to accept them 1. Is all a bare saying over what he thinketh taking little or no notice of my Discourse on that subject in my first Plea where all that 's against us is answered before and I will not repeat it 2. And it shamefully condemneth his foresaid Condemnations Is not Consent then necessary to the imposed Pastor if not consenting Unchristen men 3. It supposeth that the political Controversie Whether the King be authorized by God to chuse what pastoral Guide all the Subjects shall trust their Souls with any more than what Tutor Physician Wife Diet they shall take is an essential of Christianity and yet it is not in the Creed c. When yet it is notorious that all Churches for most Ages since Christ if not almost all in the world to this day were and are of the contrary minde and so are all unchristened by him 4. And though I urge him he will not answer what I said of the Question Who shall judge whether the Minister be faithful 5. If the Patron present a weak ignorant man that is faithful but of little use comparatively and
only to the Ministry in general but in settled Churches it is usually inconvenient And he that is ordained to a fixed Church doth at once become a Minister in the universal Church and may act as a Minister and not as a Layman when called elsewhere and also a fixed Minister of a particular Church even as he that is baptized into a particular Church is a member of both Though Baptism and Ordination qua tales enter but into the Universal XXXVII It is not this or that mode of signification of consent that is necessary to either relation of Pastor or Flock but Consent signified intelligibly where Laws and Custome order it that actual ordinary attendance in publick worship and communion and submission to necessary ministration shall be the signification all that so do express consent by it And therefore our ordinary Parish-Assembling and Communion being express consent to the mutual relation have that which is necessary ad esse to true Churches and they slander them that say they are not such But ad melius esse more may oft-times be profitable 1. Because that is the best means which is best fitted to the end But the end of Signes being Notification that is caeteris paribus the best which is most notifying as that is the best Language which is most significant and intelligible Why should playing in the dark or dealing under-board be preferred in the greatest things 2. It oft falls out that some that live in the Parish are known Church-Papists Church-Atheists Infidels will tell in their meetings to their companions I believe not the words of the Parish-Priest It is his Trade to talk for gain I will do what the Law requires of me for my safety but I will have no more to do with him nor do I take him for a true Pastor that hath any Authority but by Law nor for any Pastor to me And 3. there are many Hereticks and Schismaticks engaged Members of other Churches who yet to avoid suffering will do that in the Parish-Church which the Law requireth 4. And the Antient Churches used express Consent yea and Election So for the Minister he is no Pastor without his signified consent but actual Ministration may be such a signification This is enough to reconcile the difference about Church-covenants XXXVIII They that rail against a more express consent in cases truly dubious as if it were tyranny and destructive to Christianity do suppose that if the King and Law commanded such a thing they commanded Tyrannically that which destroyeth Christianity and contradict themselves when they say that Rulers may make various orders of Church-governours and determine of undetermined Modes XXXIX As it is not needful and usual to set up a Coordinate Imperium artificum vel Philosophorum in Imperio Civili so it seemeth also of an Imperium Religiosum The first Question is whether Christ hath Instituted such The second whether he hath given power to Men to make it There is not in any Kingdom that I hear of but somewhat towards it in China such a Society of Physicians Astronomers Navigators Lawyers Schoolmasters Philosophers c. who set up a Co-ordinate Empire or Government that shall have all degrees of self-governing power as a National Socity with one Supreme either Monarchical Aristocratical or Democratical Head according to the order of Civil-government Nor doth any reproach Schools Colledges Hospitals or any trading Societies that they are confused Independent and ungoverned because they have no common Governour but God and the King nor any particular Governour but the Principal or Master and Fellows of the Society nor any National association besides their subjection to one King and their voluntary correspondence for concord and mutual assistance with one another And much less is there any Co-ordinate Political Regiment of any of these through all the world under one visible humane Head personal or collective And yet many think that there is such a Society and Regiment for Religion National say some Universal say others That all that will serve God and be saved must be under one Co-ordinate power over all the Kingdom or World besides Christ and the Supreme Magistrate and they contend whether this power be Monarchical or Aristocratical c. I am so far Independent as to think that Christ hath Instituted no such Universal or National Power and Head of Religion but that 1. his own Universal Kingdom 2. And particular Churches under their several Bishops and Teachers 3. And Synods for concord and mutual help 4. And Christian Magistrates to rule all by the Sword 5. With the improvement of Mens eminent gifts and opportunities that these be Instituted by Christ I doubt not 6. And whether some should succeed the Apostles excepting their extraordinary powers in having a visiting instructing ordering care of many Churches and their Bishops and Teachers I confess my self uncertain and therefore will never strive against such nor deny due obedience to them who shew a true call to such an employment Nay if Christ have made no such Institution yet 1. if the Christian Magistrate 2. or the Churches by consent choose some faithful Ministers to such a power onely to direct instruct guide admonish reprove exhort the Bishops and Teachers of the particular Churches without any other force than the Apostles used and not destroying any of their proper power and duty or that Church-order which the Apostles setled I am no opposer of any such though my uncertainty disables me from subscribing and swearing to the right of their Authority The Scots themselves even by Knox's consent set up Super-intendents over many Churches John Spotswood Super-intendent of Lothian and so others And the power of a President Principal or Rector of a Colledge of Physicians Philosophers or Divines doth not make him of any other Order or species of Office and Profession than the rest But if any affirm more than this I will learn but cannot yet swear or subscribe it XL. Those that are for the obligation of the Jewish order I have fully spoke to in my first Plea for Peace Those that are only for the power of man to make such several Orders or Ranks of Governours in the Church as are in Armies and Kingdoms 1. Must tell us what sort of power may be given them 2. And who must give it And 1. No men can Institute a power of the same species or another species from that which we call the Sacred Ministry or as the Fathers the Sacerdotal but what is subordinate about the Accidentals of Religion and the Church 1. Not the same species because it is Instituted by God already No Man can create a creature already created 2. Not of another supra-ordinate or co-ordinate for 1. they can prove no power given them to do it 2. And that were to accuse Christ of insufficient doing his undertaken work and being less faithful in his house than Moses 3. And it will infer Mans introduction of a new co-ordinate