turne ye are to gredie man remember that qui cupit totum perdit totum But let vs sée your sixe demaundes whether they be reasonable and to be graunted yea or no. There are therefore say you many thinges to be considered first that Christ lefte one to rule his vvhole Churche in his steade from time to time vnto the ende of the vvorlde Is this your first request to be considered and graunted M. Stapleton now surely a reasonable demaund to be considered vpon And woorthie to haue that Salomon graunted to Adonias for asking of Abisaâ—…g to wife Wise king Salomon saw he might aswell haue asked the crowne from his head yea his head from his shoulders and who so vnwise that seeth not ye might aswell aske the whole controuersie to be graunted you and graunt ye this what néede ye propounde your other principles following How be it let vs sée what they be also Secondly we muste consider ye say that this one vvas S. Peter the Apostle and novv are the Bishops of Rome his successours Out of doubt ye had on some great considering câ—…ppe M. Stapleton when you considered that the Bishop should haue considered this He was much to blame he considered it not but M. Stapl. and ye were as wise as God might haue made you ye would haue better coÌ„sidered with your selfe than to thinke others haue so litle consideration as to graunt ye this your false and foolishe principle Thirdly say you that albeit the Bishop of Rome had no such vniuersall gouernment ouer the vvhole yet that he is and euer vvas the Patriarche of Englande and of the vvhole VVest Church and so hath as much to do here as any other Patriarche in his Patriarchshippe It is a signe M. Stap â–ª ye shrewdly doubte the former twains woulde neuer be graunted that so soone would be content to become a Patriarche of a piece from a Pope of the whole which though it sheweth lesse haughtinesse in you that would play small game rather than sit out yet perchance your Pope is of Alexanders spirite to whome Darius hauing offred halfe his dominions if I were Alexander ê™ Parmenio I would take it so would I ê™ Alexander if I were Parmenio And so perchance your Pope will say to you if I were Master Stapleton I would be content at least to be a Patriarche and perchance a worse rowme woulde serue But beyng the Bishop of Rome he will say Aut Papa aut nihil And therefore least ye get his curse before ye aske our consent the surest way were to know how he will like of this your limitation and when he shal be content then propose it to vs to consider thereon But I see ye like not greatly to stande hereon for fourthly say you Then all vvere it that he had nothing to intermedle vvith vs nor as Pope nor as Patriarche yet can not this supremacie of a ciuill Prince be iustified VVhereof he is not capable especially a vvoman but it must remayne in some spirituall man. Your must is very mustie M. Stapl. and smelleth of the pumpe of Romes ship Your Sequence is as badde the B. of Rome neyther as Pope nor as Patriarche is supreme gouernour in Ecclesiasticall causes in England Ergo No ciuill Prince man or woman is capable of it Againe There must be one spirituall man that must haue an vniuersall gouernment ouer the whole Churche Ergo â–ª A ciuill Prince may haue no particuler gouernement in his particuler Churche The antecedents in déede are true of bothe For neither hath the Pope as Pope or Patriarche or any otherwise any supreme gouernement ouer Englande as you presuppose he had none and yet the Prince both may haue and hath some supreme gouernement ouer vs For in déede all supreme gouernement suche as the Pope vsurped she neither hath nor may haue nor requireth nor belongs to any creature but is due to Christ alone He is that spirituall man that your other antecedent speaketh of if ye meane him it is true if you meane any other it is but your false presupposall though the consequentes whereon we stande followeth neither way neither doe ye laboure once to proue them But is here all things we muste consider no say you for fiftly Besides this the Catholikes say that as there vvas neuer any such president heretofore in the catholike Church so at this present there is no suche excepte in Englande neither among the Lutherans the Suinglians the Suenkfeldians or Anabaptists or any other secte that at this day raygneth or rageth in the vvorlde None of these I say agnyse their ciuill Prince as supreme gouernour in al causes spirituall and temporall Let goe these raging termes of sectes M. Sta. to their common places and I pray ye tell vs once agayne who sayth thus Who euen the Catholikes say so But whome meane you by the Catholiks The Papists Then gentle M. Stap. haue me commended to those your Papisticall Catholikes that ye say say so and aske them agayne if all be Gospell that they do say or no. Tushe man will M Stap. replie will ye not beléeue the Catholikes Why then sixtly and Laste of all I saye and M. Feck vvill also say that euen M. Horne him selfe in this his aunsvvere retreateth so farre back from his assertion of supreme gouernement in all causes spirituall and temporall vvhiche is the state and keye of the vvhole question that he plucketh from the Prince the chiefe and principall matters and causes ecclesiasticall as vve shall hereafter playnely shevve by his ovvne vvordes This geare goeth harde indéede The B. is nowe driuen to asore straight But syr might a man be so bolde to aske your mastership what are you and M. Feck are ye not Catholikes that when ye haue saide the catholikes say so ye come rushing in say Last of all I say and M. Feck vvill also say you make vs doubte least ye be no Catholikes and withall to suspect when ye cal your selfe and your client M. Feck to witnesse some partialitie in your sayings least the sole will holde with the shoe and that as two false witnesses came in agaynst our sauiour Christ with I say so and he vvill say so also so woulde you compact togither to slander the B. herein with I say so and M. Feck vvil say so also But by both your leaues may I be so bolde as to set your I say so and his I say so also asyde and desire ye to proue your so saying Why say you doubt ye of that we shall here after plainly shevve it by hys owne vvordes These are but vvords M. Stap. and ioly promises if ye can shevve it so playnly why shevve ye it not playnly here where ye say it so playnly or else haue shevved at the least where the B. doth thus which till ye shall playnely shewe this your â–ª bolde and playne saying may be suspected for a playne lye But M. Stap. shaking of the further
sticke at that ye will not sticke and make that false that ye graunt true or else ye proue master Feck not to be ignorant contrarie to his defence and all the rest of your owne défence of him as we shall sée your wordes afterwarde In the meane time let vs sée howe pretily ye shift off the matter onely bicause the Bishop names Tho. of Aquine a schole Papist for the diuision of Ignoraunce thinking ye haue gotten a wonderfull aduauntage thereby for the Popes supremacie But nowe sayth M. Stap. the verye authour brought forth by master Horne so fullie and effectually dischargeth M. Feck of all three and chargeth M. Horne with the worst of them three that is wilfulnesse and malice as he shal winne small worship by alleaging of S. Thomas For S. Tho. sayeth plainely that we are obliged and bounde vpon paine of euerlasting damnation to beleeue that the Pope is the onely supreme heade of the whole Church Nowe fearing as not without good cause that the B. would in this matter reiect the authoritie of this Thomas whom our Thomas calleth a late latine writer and to much affectionate to the Pope as it were by preuention He can not well reiect his authoritie sayeth he vsing it him selfe And why so Sir I pray you must euery one that citeth him in any one poynt receyue and admit his authoritie to in euerie poynt Is it lawfull for the Sorbonistes the Scholemen and the whole rabble of the Papistes yea for Thomas Stapleton him selfe to accept Thomas of Aquines authoritie in some poyntes and to reiect his authoritie in other some poyntes and is it not lawfull for the Bishop or anye other to vse the same libertie The Sorbonistes affirme of this Thomas Illa doctrina non potest esse in omnibus sic approbata c. That doctrine can not in all thinges be so approued that conteyneth many thinges erronious in fayth but as they say the foresayde doctrine of Saint Thomas not onelye in the matter of the absolute necessitie of a creature c. but also in manye other thinges conteyneth manye matters erronious in fayth And againe Non oportet credere c. VVee muste not beleeue that the doctrine it selfe is in no parte thereof erronious or hereticall wherein are conteyned manye contrarieties and repugnancies yea euen in the matter perteyning to the sayth â–ª but manye suche contrarieties and repugnancies are conteyned in the doctrine of Saynt Thomas Agayne 〈◊〉 dicunt aliqui c. And some saye for thys that manye maye denye the glosses of the decrees and Decreâ—… when the glosse doeth openlye denye the texte and lykewyse some saye of the ordinarye glosses of the Byble that notwithstanding seeme to bee of greater authoritie when they are alleaged for authoritie than is the Doctryne of Saint Thomas The sixte example maye bee giuen of certayne Doctours whiche are not canonized Saintes as the venerable Anselme Byshoppe of Cant. Hughe of Saint Victor and certayne other whose sayinges or wrytinges are in certayne poyntes founde erronious and yet theyr doctrine seemeth to bee no lesse authenticall than the doctrine of Saint Thomas sithe they are of the skilfull in their scolasticall actes alleaged for authoritie nor are wonted to bee denyed but their sayinges reuerently to be glosed and expounded whiche notwythstanding the Schoolemen are not woont to doe on the sayinges of Saint Thomas and therefore it seemeth presumptuous so to extoll hys Doctrine ouer them and other Doctours that wee maye not beleeue and affirme that hee erred in fayth euen as other also haue erred And after this as likewise before reckoning vp diuerse errours these spéeches are common Ista locutio est de virtute sermonis falsa multum impropria c. This speech in the force of the wordes is false and verie improper Ista doctrina multos errores continet c. This Doctrine conteyneth manie errours Uidetur multipliciter erroneum c. It seemeth diuerse wayes erroneous Deficit in multis c. If fayles in many poyntes Non est verum c. It is not true Et breuiter haec alia multa erronea falsa impropriè dicta videÌ„tur multis in praedicta doctrina contineri quae tamen ex taediâ—… pertransimus And briefly these and many other erronious false improper sayings seeme to many to be conteyned in the foresaide doctrine the which notwithstanding we ouerpasse for tediousnesse And from hence they discend to manifest errours in diuinitie And in conclusion write thus of him They say also that in verie many places of his doctrine he erred by reason of this that he applied to much the principles of philosophie or rather certaine wordes of Philosophers to the conclusions of Diuinitie Thus say the great Censors of the Popish doctrine agaynst Thomas of Aquine so well they agrée togither in vnitie of doctrine obiecting discorde vnto vs Yea the whole swarme of Papists not excepting our Thom. St. here him selfe vnlesse he be returned to the truth since he wrote his booke reiecteth and condemneth Thom â–ª of Aquines iudgement and authoritie in one of the most necessarie matters of Christian religion namely the doctrine of iustification For expounding this sentence of S. Paule Arbitramur hemâ—…neÌ„ iustificari absque operibus legis Arbitramur enim nos c. For we being taught of Christ thinke sayth Thomas according to the truth of the Apostle that euerie man whether he be Iewe or Gentile is iustified by faith Actes 15. By fayth purifying their hearts that without the workes of the law and that not onely without the ceremoniall works which did not giue grace but also without the works of the moral commandements according to that saying to Titus 3. Not of the works of the righteousnes that we haue wrought The reason is presumed that we are saued for our merits the which he excludeth when he sayth not of the works of the righteousnesse which we haue done But the true reason is the onely mercy of god There is not therefore in them the hope of iustification sed in sola fide but in fayth alone VVorkes are not the cause that any bodie is iust before God but they are rather executions and the manifestings of righteousnesse Where Tho. of Aquine thus according to Gods worde speaketh the truth as in this poynt here of iustification the Bishop and all other faythfull receyue his iudgement and admit the same with better reason than the Papists reiect it But where as in many other poyntes he swarueth from the truth though the Papists saint him neuer so much yet there all true saintes with good reason refuse him As in this that master Stapleton citeth out of him who confesseth him selfe that Thomas being a late latine writer wrote partiallye in this poynte bycause hée was to muche affectioned to the Pope and shall we beléeue such an affectionate wryter in hys partiall affection Or shall we beléeue master Stapleton no
all in you that he confessed to be so great and grieuous a sinne in him Now and there were no other place in the scripture to proue it sinne but euen this were not this plaine ynough that the Apostle sayth NesctebaÌ„ concupiscentiam esse peccatiâ—… nisi lex dixisset non concupisces I had not knowne coÌ„cupiscence to be sinne but that the law said thou shalt not lust Wherin he nameth it not onely sinne for that ye count no sufficient argument but say it is so named for that it commes of sinne and disposeth and inclines to sinne therefore is called improperly by the name of sin but the Apostle addeth a strong reason to proue it sinne in very déed bicause by the flat commaundement of God it is forbidden therefore it is a transgâ—…ession of Gods commaundement and displeasing God for otherwise God would not by his law forbid it Which expresse law against concupiscence when S. Paule regarded better than it appeareth you dothe then coÌ„fessed it to be sin which before he knew not by ignorance of the law Although your ignorance be of wilfull malice that will neither know Gods law nor your owne transgression of it nor all these euident confessions of the Apostle obiect S. Aug. against the Messalians to vs and yet are you both agreeing with the Messalians and flat agaynst S. August your selues For what could Saint August write more plaine than this Sicut coecitas cordis c. EueÌ„ as the blindnesse of tâ—…e hart is both sinne wherewith we beleue not in God and the punishment of sinne wherwith a prowde heaâ—…t is punished with worthie correction the cause of sinne when ought is committed by the errour of a blinde heart so concupiscence of the flesh against the which the good spirite doth lust is both sin bicause there is in it a disobedience against the rule of the mind and the punishment of sinne bicause it is giuen for the deseruings of the disobeyer and the cause of sinne by the defection of the consenter or the contagion of him that is borne In which wordes as he plainely speaketh both of the state of the birth before baptisme and of the consent defection and deseruings after baptisme so he maketh concupiscence not to be sinne it selfe onely but also the punishment and the cause of sinne Neither is S. August alone herein for S. Hierom doth not onely call it sinne but least ye shoulde dally about the name he sayth Habitans in sua carne peccatum hoc est vitia corporis desideria voluptatis c. But if my outwarde man do that he would not and worke that whiche he hateth hee sheweth the commaundement to bee good and that he worketh not that which is euill but sinne inhabiting in his flesh that is the vices of the bodie and desires of pleasure the whiche for the posteritie and ofspring is euen grafted in mennes bodyes Thus maketh he concupiscence not sinne inhabiting onely but euen verye vice it selfe engrafted in vs speaking not onely on himselfe but euen on Saint Paule also And are you better â—…ordâ—… all these What procéedeth this vpon but plaine arrogancie ioyned with obstinacy to conceale your shame and flatter your selues in your sinfull burning lusts which rather than ye would with humilitie acknowledge and confesse ye spare not so to exalt your selues that ye deface the glorie of God so to vaunte your pâ—…ra naturalia your frée will and merits that ye quite take away euen the death of Iesus Christ and to establishe your owne righteousnesse ye disdaine to be subiect to the righteousnesse of God and making vs beleue we had no sin at all while we were infants newly regenerate to deceyue our selues and to haue no more truth in vs than is in you Go now Master Stapleton and boast that we be Messalians or rather clere your selues of their Heresies besides that ye be not onely Messalians but Missalians or Massalians which is a great deale worser Heresie Your next obiection is of Images And bicause say you ye shall not say I suppresse conceale or obscure the chiefe and most notable persons of your auncestrie how say ye to the Emperors Philippicus Leo CoÌ„stantinus coÌ„demned with their adherents by the 7. generall CouÌ„cell at Nice that villained by defacing breaking and burning the Images of all the holy Hallowes of Christ Christs too If your guiltie conscience M. Stap. do misgiue you that ye haue hitherto charged vs falsly and haue suppressed concealed and obscured our true auncestours and in stead therof haue obiected Heretikes it were some token of grace and repentance in you that ye say yet now at the length ye will not suppresse conceale or obscure the chiefe and notable persons of our auncestrie Where ye aske vs what we say to these thrée Emperors Philippicus Leo Constantinus that ye say villained Images whatsoeuer we say to them Master Stapelton some good fellowe perhaps will say this to you that if they bée suche most notable persons ye might haue spared such villainous language except it be naturall to you to vse villaynes Rhetoricke on chiefe Princes and most notable personages But I will not meddle with your well nurtured termes onely I desire you as ye pretend not â—…o suppresie conceale nor obscure indeede the chiefe and most notable persons of our auncestrie whereby ye meane the auncient Emperors If ye will not in very déed how chaunce ye name but these thrée for taking away of Images why suppresse ye the names of the Emperors Ualens Theodosius that made a plaine decrée agaynst all maner of Imagâ—…rie of all the holy Hallowes of Christ as ye call them Christes to and yet your seuenth generall Councell condemned theÌ„ not yea your selfe as after shal appéere do highly coÌ„mend them What ment ye to suppresse the name of Carolus Magnus commended likewise highly euen by your selfe and yet he abolished all Images also Why name ye Philippicus Leo Constantinus onely and tell not of all the other Emperors before these after these euen til the time of Theodorus Lascaris that yelded to your Pope herein at Lions Councell therfore the Gréekes depriued and expelled him for his labour Syth then so many chief and most notable persons of the auncient Emperors of which your self graunt some to be as godly as notable being before that CouÌ„cell were not condemned by it being as ye say our auÌ„cestors herein are altogither quite suppressed concealed obscured is not this very partiall and vnfaithfull dealing in reiecting our honourable pedegree M. St But I see you will neuer leaue your lying Nowe where ye say these thrée Emperors were condemned by the seuenth generall Councell at Nice True in déede they were so euen as you condemned all Godly Princes at your last Trident Councell that abolishe your Idolatrie What maner a Councell it was and what maner of reasons they haue in it for the
haue thought they had done God good seruice too so that he would haue maintayned them And do not you euen so what els maketh ye crie vpon the Princes beyond the seas with all kinde of torments to destroy the Protestants If Princes would aduise them selues or euer they beléeued you so lightly and would not destroy their subiects till they had sit in iudgmâ—…t heard discussed both parties causes throughly ye would not be halfe so hastie Ye would then crie to the contrarie that you must only be iudges they must onely beleue you strike onely them whom you shall bidde them strike Contrarywise where the Princes espying your falshood forsake your errours and sette out euen very milde lawes against you then ye change your coppie and crie out euery thing is extreme crueltie ye are too too sore handled and oppressed then ye extoll beyonde the moone lenitie and sufferance and winche like a gald horse at the least thing that toucheth you And thus euery way do you still shew your selues to be the very Donatistes Now that ye haue as you conceyue with your selfe giuen vs so great a foyle ye enter into your thirde parte saying VVe may now proceede to the remnant of your booke sauing that this in no wise must be ouerhipped that euen by your owne wordes here ye purge M. Feckenham from this crime ye laide vnto him euen now for refusing the proufeâ—… taken out of the old Testament Now for God M. St. since hitherto ye haue cléered him so sclenderly that ye haue more bewrapped him and your selfe also in this crime let nothing in any case be forgotten or ouerhipped that any wayes may helpe the matter forwarde for hitherto it rather hath gone backward but now there is good hope M. Feckenham shall take a good purgation euen of the Bishops owne making that you M. Stap. will minister to him which wil so worke vpon him make him haue so good a stoole that he shal be clerely purged of this crime of Donatistes â—…o to then M. Stapl and let vs sée how apothecarylike you can minister the same For if as ye say say you the order gouernment that Christ left behind in the Gospell new Testament is the order rule gouernment in ecclesiastical causes practised by the Kings of the old Testament then will it follow that M. Feckenham yelding to the gouernment of the new doth not exclude but â—…ather comprehende the gouernment of the old Testament also both being especially as ye say all one Is this the purgation M. St. that ye will minister to M. Feckenham would to God ye could make him receyue anâ—… brooke this sentence if you would take it also I warrent ye it would so purge you of your old leuen sowre dough that ye should no more be Donatists nor Papistes neither if ye receyue and well digest this little sentence The order and gouernment that Christ left behinde in the new Testament is the order rule and gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes practised by the kinges of the old Testament For then giue ye Princes that that ye haue all this while denied theÌ„ But do ye thinke M. Feckenham will wittingly and willingly receiue this sentence that which in déede followeth necessarily thereon The sentence is true but M. Feck for all that may be a lier and you another For I warrant you M. Feck granteth this no â—…urder than as the Donatists he may temper it to make it seeme to serue his turne Why say you if he grant the onâ—… he doth not exclude but rather comprehende the other Nay M. St. M. Feck coÌ„preheÌ„des it not but shoonnes it as agaynst him by your owne confession But the olde being comprehended by the newe Master Feckenham is contrarie wise by force of argument graunting the newe enforced by the olde Not that he comprehendeth it but is comprehended of it and driuen to yeelde thereto of his aduersarie by conclusion of reasoning the one including the other But rather than he will do this voluntarily he will rather exclude them both the olde and the newe testament also and as he hath done burne them both togither The. 20. Diuision THe Bishop in this diuision first gathereth his full conclusion of all these testimonies into this argument What gouernment order and dutifulnesse so euer belonging to any God hath prefigured and promised before hande by his Prophetes in the holy scriptures of the olde Testament to be performed by Christ those of his Kingdom that is the gouernment order and dutifulnesse set forth and required in the Gospell or new testament But that faythfull Emperours Kinges and Rulers ought of dutie as belonging to their office to claime and take vpon them the gouernment authoritie power care and seruice of God the Lorde in matters of Religion or causes Ecclesiasticall was an order and dutifulnesse for them prefigured and forepromised of God by his Prophetes in the Scriptures of the olde Testament as Saint Augustine hath sufficiently witnessed Ergo Christian Emperors Kings and Rulers owe of dutie as belonging to their office to clayme and take vpon them the gouernment authoritie power care and seruice of God their Lorde in matters of Religion or spirituall ecclesiasticall causes is the gouernment order and dutifulnesse setforth and required in the Gospell or new Testament The Bishop hauing thusfully concluded these Testimonies he yet confirmeth them further with more authorities of the Prophete Esay with Lyra his exposition therevpon and the example of Constantine for proufe of the same At this master Stapleton first carpeth by certaine marginall notes or euer he blowe vp the Chapter of his Counterblast thereto The minor of the Bishops conclusion for the Princes gouernment authoritie power care c. he grauÌ„teth but not such supreme gouernment sayth he as the othe prescribeth He graunteth also Saint Augustine to witnesse this the Princes gouernment but no such large and supreme gouernment as we attribute now to them Againe he graunteth this supreme gouernment is in causes ecclesiasticall â–ª but not in all causes ecclesiasticall And so graunting that the Bishop concludeth well in some such thing you conclude not sayth he in all things and causes and therefore you conclude nothing agaynst vs. Lastly he graunteth all the Bishops testimonies concerning Constantine but he denieth that it maketh any thing for vs. Nowe after these marginall notes prefixed he entreth into his Chapter pretending to open the weakenesse of the Bishops conclusion and of other his proues oute of holie Scripture And first his aunswere to this diuision he deuideth in thrée partes First he graunteth all that the Bishop hath sayde but denieth that it is sufficient Secondly he quarrelleth about this that the Bishop calleth the Emperour Constantine a Bishop as Eusebius nameth him Thirdly he chalengeth him for calling Idoll Image Now to the first parte to sée whether all these grauntes make sufficiently for vs and conclude against him yea
giue the aduersaries occasion of sclaundering him For if they yea eueÌ„ vvithout this perfecuted him as a seditious person how much more would they haue persecuted him if he had accepted the kingdome offered of the people Thus euen til this day fleeth he froÌ„ those that only seeke carnall things in him bycause no parte of his spiritual giftes loketh on theÌ„ he despiseth them that are occupied about vile bags â–ª to vvit being giuen to their belly filthinesse He only giueth himselfe to them that seeke spirituall things in him that can say our coÌ„uersation is in heauen Not without cause therfore Christ here fled being sought for vnto a kingdome vvho being sought for vnto deathe offered himselfe freely For first by this he condemned our pryde or coueteousnesse or ambition or deintinesse Secondly he taught to contemne the glorie of the vvorlde than the vvhiche nothing is more vaine and not to feare the aduersitie of the vvorlde than the vvhiche nothing is more shorte Thirdly he taught heerein that those things are but small that in the worlde seeme to be mostegreat They thought they had offered Christe a great thing but he despised it as a litle thing VVe are far of an other iudgement Whom he meaneth by this vve loke a litle before concerning theÌ„ that offered the kingdome to christ This fact saith he declareth what the flesh seeketh in Christ euen his ovvn Cosins that is to say fleshly humaine things Christe is set forth before vs that in him we should seeke the forgiuenesse of sinnes righteousnesse eternal life But the carnall man seeketh nothing in him but licence carnall libertie and the filling of the paunche For hee that is of the earth speaketh and thinketh of earthly thinges yea suche is the nature of the fleshe that it abuseth all the giftes of God and seeketh farre other things in them than God woulde So the fleshely man in the creatures that are giuen to our vse and to this that God might be knowne and feared seeketh no other thing than pleasure And when by theÌ„ he ought to be caried vnto the creator he sticketh in theÌ„ and worshippeth theÌ„ So in the lawe which was giuen of God for the knowledge of sinne the carnall Iewes sought righteoushesse euen as the Papistes doe and so nowe also all those carnall men that in the power of the sworde seeke not that that God wil but only ambition pryde c. yea and that in these thinges that appertaine to the spirituall gouernement those carnall Pastors seeke onely honor ryches idlenesse delightes when as Christ ordeined them to be teachers guides Apostles c. For no other cause than for the edifying of his bodie Thus saith Frier Ferus againste his owne fleshely spiritualtie séeking in Christes spirituall kingdome a worldly kingdome which for these causes abouesaide and not onely for the originall that Maister Saunders here onely mentioneth he refused to be made a King. The like shift Maister Saunders vseth to the other place Luc. 12. of Christs refusall to be a iudge betwene the brethreÌ„ for the diuision of their inheritance saying who made me a iudge or deuider ouer you as though he shoulde say neither the common weale hath made me a iudge neither the Emperor hath made me a iudge As thoughe Christ refused to be their iudge not for that he would not be such a iudge â—…ut for that he was not made such a iudge by humaine authoritie For of such a iudge saith he these brethren thought whether they thought him to be such a iudge or no iâ—… not apparant Maister Saunders and if we may go by coniectures probabilities it rather séemeth the contrarie For neicher could they sée any such tokens in him to haue bin authorised from those that were â—…hen the Magistrats his words going before do argue they could not conueniently so thinke of him both ratling vp the Phariseis that had the humaine authoritie bidding his Disciples not to mistrust what to answere when they shoulde come before the powers Magistrates which these brethren hearing might easily conceiue that Christ himselfe was no such earthly Magistrate But to the causes wherfore Christ refused it that as before euen of the Papists mouthes themselues Hofmeister one of your sloutest champions hath these words Truely those things that haue bin spokeÌ„ and heard from the beginning of this Gospel do ynough declare the kingdom of Christ not to be of this world neither that he would raigne temporally in the world sith he taketh not souldiors that caÌ„ oppugne others but fishermeÌ„ readier to suffer thaÌ„ to strike And so in this place with most manifest wordes Christ declareth that he came not for this purpose to take vpon him the office of a Magistrate but rather that he might raigne in our harts so that it might be our hap to come to the eternal goods whatsoeuer hapned of our tem porall goods Therfore when he was interrupted of a certaine Iewe that he would helpe him in recouering his inheritance he aunswered Man who hath made me a ludge or deuider ouer you As though he shoulde say hath not this worlde iudges that may decide so base controuersies it is not appointed vnto me that this or that man shoulde waxe rich by inheritance but that all men should come to the inheritance of life immortall But in these words Christ woulde betoken many things to wit that he which hath an Apostolicall office ought not to be wrapped with prophane and silthie affaires For so the Apostle saith otherwhere No maÌ„ going to warfare vnder God entangleth himselfe with worldly businesse And the Apostles say all at once it is not meete foÌ„r vs to leaue the word of God and attend on the tables Christ also by this reprouing woulde declare that his doctrine taketh not away the Magistrates offices but rather confirmeth theÌ„ VVhervpon he saith also else where render to Cesar that that is Cesars And wheÌ„ his Disciples striued for prehemineÌ„ce he said â–ª the kings of the nations gouerne them so forth VVhereby he declared that neither he himself nor his ought as they call theÌ„ to be secular iudges neither did he by this refusing abolishe the order of the Magistrate but much more as we haue said confirmed it Thus far your owne Doctor Hofmeister againste you that the entent of Christe refusing to be a iudge herein was chiefely against such vsurpation of worldly Magistracie as the Pope and his Prelates do exercise But say you Christ in that he was appoynted of God to be iudge by his incarnation concerning that parte he saide vnto them that they should beware of couetousnes for he saw that they draue not as yet their inheritance to a spirituall ende that they might beare the iudgement of Christ. As who should say if they had béen Christians he would then haue béen a temporall iudge ouer them that is to say if they had done their duetie
alleaged c. and all thinges else that is here alleaged yet all will not reache home 68. a. VVhich aunswere of his may satisfie any reasonable man for all that ye bring in here of Constantine or all that ye shall afterwarde bring in c. 68. b. VVhich I am assured all Catholikes will graunt 68. b. Giue to Caesar that belongeth to Caesar and to God that beloÌ„geth to God â–ª which later clause â–ª I am assured doth much more take away a supreme regiment in all causes ecclesiasticall than necessalily by force of any wordes binde vs to pay yea any tribute to our Prince 69. b. VVe plainly say that this kinde of supremacie is directly against Gods holy worde 70. a. VVhat can ye conclude of all that ye haue or shall say to win your purpose 74. a. I say that if Saint Augustine were aliue he woulde say vnto you as he saide vnto Gaudentius 74. b. Neither this that ye here alleage out of place nor all the residue which ye reherse of this Constantine c. can import this superioritie as we shall there more at large specific In the meane season I say it is a stark most impudeÌ„t lie 75. b As I haue at large in my returne against master Iewels fourth article declared 77. b. VVhat honour haue ye got what honour haue you I saye wonne by this or by the whole thing it selfe 78. a. And shal we now M. Horne your antecedeÌ„t being so naught the consequent ye will hereof inferre nay pardie 79. a b. VVell I will leaue this at your leasure better to bee debated vpon betwixt you and master Foxe 80. a. Ye are a verie poore sielie clearke farre from the knowledge of the late reuerende fathers Bishop VVhite and Bishop Gardiner 80. a. That I may a little roll in your rayling Rhetorike hearken good master Horne I walke not and wander as ye doe here c. I go to worke with you truely plainly and particularly I shewe you by your owne Emperour and by plaine wordes 81. b. Hitherto ye haue not brought any one thing worth a good strawe to the substantiall prouse of your purpose 82. a. I am right well assured ye haue not proued nor neuer shall be able to proue in the auncient Church while ye liue 82. b. I walke not in confuse and generall wordes as you do 82. b. To all these facings and crakes though many of them be particularly aunswered as occasion requireth these his owne wordes may suffise for aunswere All men knowe that your great vauntes are but wordes of course to saue your poore honestie 1. Pref. pag. 23. Bicause he quarelleth so much with the Bishop as for other things so for his Rhetorike as also Doctour Harding and his fellowes vpbrayde likewise vnto Bishop Iewell his Rhetorike and master Dorman to master Nowell I haue therefore set downe as one of his chiefest common places a briefe note or two by the way to shewe wherein our master Stapletons flourishing Rhetorike doth most consist His obiections of Rhetorike AS for your Rhetorike ye woorke your matters so handsomly and so perswasiuely c. what a newe Cicero or Demosthenes are you 1. Pref. pag. 6. 7. His chiefest floures of Rhetorike partly nothing but copia verboruâ—… an heape of needlesse wordes partly nothing but rolling on a letter With which Rhetorike thou shalt 〈◊〉 his whole booke so poudred that it should be superfluous to trouble thée with any exacter collection of theÌ„ being in effect nothing else but â—…rs bahlatiua Only I will giue 〈◊〉 a light taste thereof throughout his whole volume and the rest thou 〈◊〉 continually finde as thou readest his Counterblast His fift common place of flourishing Rhetorike IT is the Castle of your Profession the Key of your Doctrine the principal Fort of all your Religion the piller of your authoritie the fountaine of your iurisdiction the ankerholde of all your proceedings 1. Pref. pag. 1. Your cause is betrayed your doctrine dissolueth your whole Religion goeth to wracke the want of this right shaketh your authoritie stoppeth your iurisdiction and is the vtter ship wracke of all your proceedings 2. Haue I not grounded this worke c. haue I not posted it c. haue I not furnished it c. haue I not fenced it c. haue I not remooued all c. an outward shewe and countenance a gay glorious glistring face a face I say all is but a face and a naked shewe 3. Most miserably and wretchedly pinched pared and dismembred Most shamefully contaminated depraued and deformed 12. A mishapen lumpe of lewde and lose arguments 5. VVith like good Logike ye lay forth 6. The truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and confirmed 8. T. Turkish trecherie L. Lauashing language 14. B. Bluster and blow F. Fume and freat R. Raile and raue as L. Lowdlyas lewdly as B. Beastly as boldly c. ye B. Bluster not so boysterously as ye L. Lie most lewdly 15. A H. Happie happe for master Horne that happed c. S. Such slender circumstances to M. Minister him matter of such T. Trifling talke 6. b. A prerogatiue appropriate to the Prelate 7. b. You will happly forsake and abandoÌ„ Saint Augustines authoritie with the olde C. Canons and Councels and 〈◊〉 vnder the defence of your B. Brittle Bulwarke 8. b. A pretie legerdemaine played and a leafe put in at the printing which was neuer proposed in the parliament c. what Parliament haue your preachers 9. a. b. O poore and siely helpe O miserable shift c. This is to trouble all things this is as it were to confounde togither heauen and earth 9. a. VVhie good sir make ye such post haste what are you so soone at the ende I see your haste is great VVhat will you leape ouer the hedge ere ye come at it And I might be so bolde I woulde faine demaunde of you the cause of your hastie posting Perhaps there is some eye sore or somewhat that your stomacke cannot beare Grieueth it you to heare Doth it appall you to heare c. Doth it dasell and amase you to heare c. Doe yee take it to the heart Master Horne â–ª Is it a corsey to you Is there yet any other lurking sore priuily pinching your stomack I trow it nipped you at the very heart roote 212. b. 213. a. b. VVhie master Horne can your eares paciently abide all this can your stomacke digest all this master Horne can ye suffer can ye suffer How chaunce we haue not at the least for your comfort one pretie nippe 287. a. A rascall rablement of monstruous hereticall names A rablement of straunge monstrous hereticall names This rascall rablement of huge monstrous names 317. It is so it is so master Horne c. You can not you may not you shall not c. You sawe you sawe master Horne you master Horne 430. Your horrible dissention glistreth so cleare crieth so lowde and blustreth so great that so long as we haue
Peter and Saint Paule so earnestly taught at that time obedience to Princes But what obedience coulde they require in subiectes if they comprehended not with all authoritie in Princes fol. 75. b. Aunswere these contradictions with his owne wordes I am here in the beginning put to the knowledge by the varietie of your aunsweres that they cannot be both true but if the one be true the other must be false fol. 40. a. By your contradictions ye shewe the vnstablenesse of your owne Iudgement 1. Pres. pag. 19. His ninth common place of petit quarels at Grammer and other trifles to prolong his booke thereby His ovvne obiection of the same WHo seeth not nowe that all this was but a quarell picked without desert and you master Stapletonn to haue shewed yourselfe amost ridiculous wrangler But Gods name be blessed the dealing of Catholike wryters is so vpright that suche small occasions must bee piked and vppon suche trifles your Rhetorike must bee bestowed else agaynst their dealing ye haue nothing to say 1. Preface pag. 18. IN his first Preface where he giueth a briefe antedate of all those things that he is â—…ust offended withall he maketh this a verie heynous faulte that the Bishoppe called Conuenâ—…t It ought to bee for It is meete or conuenient to bee â–ª 1. Pref. Pag. 4. As who saye if a thing bée meete and conuenient it ought not to bee or if it ought to be it is not meete and conuenient to bee But if Oportet muste néedes alwayes signifie it ought to bee then ought your Bishops if they bée Bishops to bée maryed For Saint Paule sayth not Conuenit but Oportet Episcopuâ—… esse vniâ—… vxâ—…r is viruâ—… A Bishop ought to be the husbande of one wife In the same place he maketh a sorer matter aboute this worde recenâ—…endam to reherse which worde the Bishoppe went not aboute to interprete in that place as the letter sheweth but onelye to tell the sentence and intente of their doyng and wherefore did the Councell present their doynges to bée read or rehearsed before the Emperour but that he might examine and confyrme the same Besides that they them selues beséeche him to ratifie and confirme them which he could not well doe hauing not examined and perused them ibid. Likewise about irrogare priuilegia that eyther by escape of the Printer as many such escapes in any booke may hap or by the ouersight of the writer of the Printers copie was printed to take away for he gaue of which escape Lord what a wonderfull triumphant outcrie he maketh also in his Counterblast while the materiall purpose is all one agaynst him whether the Prince made priuileges or abrogated priuileges and tooke them from the Clergie For if his taking away were lawfull his authoritie remayned equall in both except ye will say â–ª Princes haue authoritie to make priuileges for the Clergie giue or make for them what and how much they will but they that haue learned holdefast the first point of hawking will not suffer them by the same authoritie to take any away agâ—…ine for that is against their profite But the lawe sayth contrary the same authoritie that may make the same authoritie may vndâ—…e and take away againe ibidem But lesse maruaile is it that he quarelleth about the former wordes that cauilleth about the Englishing of quauiâ—… causa any cause which must be sayth he euery cause calling this interpreting foule shiftes neuerthelesse of much importance to call quauis any yet himself euen in the next lease not of quauis qualibet or quacunque whereon he descanteth Grammarian like but euen of nothing can make Any a foule shift and yet not of any other importance at all than to shewe that any or all these causes of his brablings are in conclusion of no importance at all But admitting as he would haue it the Kings and the Councels decrée agaynst the carying of causes out of the Realme to be pleaded at the Court of Rome should signifie not any but eueâ—…y cause then coulde not the penaltie of the breach thereof extend to any that had tryed excéeding many causes at Rome and dayly did for all this decrée vnlesse it had â—…ene proued he had there tried euerie cause and so the decrée it selfe had bene of nonâ—… importance at all whereat so heynous a matter is made and yet the worde in that place admitteth so well none other interpretation ibid. The like quarell he piketh aboute supremuâ—… gâ—…bernator supreme gouernour in the Queeneâ—… Maiesties title to the othe administred at Oxenfordâ—… of the which othe he sayth A scholler might make an honest refusall were it nothing but for false Latine Which rule of his if it holde then many of their poâ—…ishe ceremonies their Latine seruice their Masse yea euen their consecration might honestly he refused were it but for false Latine when their ignoraunt Priestes did pronounce corpus 〈◊〉 c. in nomina patria filia spirita sancta c. 〈◊〉 for sumâ—…simus or such like wordes about the which your best scholemen make somewhat more 〈◊〉 standing vpon the intentioâ—…s and not so much vpon the sillables that euen for the false construction of sir Iohn lackâ—… Latine that patreth Latine like a Parat they might honestly refuse the same but to saue the honestie of theyr priests and their ignoraunt escapes they haue a contrarie glosse to your rule quia error sillabae non nocet the error of a sillable hurteth not althoughe they that vsed this phrase knewe as well howe to set the Substantiâ—…e and the Adiectiue togither as master Stapleton I dare say and were it so as he sayth might take the phrase vsually receyued not respecting the gender so much as the selfe thing and power As we vse in Englishâ—… to say without quarelling thereat the Quéenes Royall or regall estate though shee by hir seâ—…e be Queene and by Grammer shoulde say reginall estate likewise we call hir gouernour defender and your selfe call hir often Prince not Princesse all these and suche like wordes or phrases setting aside the exacting of Grammer rules in respect of hir kingly power the lawyers say they may vse this licence of speach to whome I remitte you and to other your Canonists scholemen and Historiographers that haue vsed the same or like with no reproche or quarell piked thereat And if now the Quéenes Maiesties supremacie must néedes be renouÌ„ced for this phrase bicause by the censure of our new Aristarchus it is not so Grammerlike then must your Pope himselfe léese his vsurped supremacie so oft as it often falleth out he is no Grammarian at all ibidem Likewise he maketh a quarell about these wordes supreme head in the title of King Henrie and King Edwarde and the wordes of the title vsed nowe supreme gouernour where all men knowe that the sense is all one but that this title more plainly expresseth the matter to preuent such ianglers Yea but sayth he there is a certaine addition of greatest
importance which is in all spirituall or ecclesiasticall things or causes as temporall What is this but an importune séeking of a knot in a rushe of no importance 〈◊〉 there any thing in these wordes added more than was â—…ully compreâ—… hended in the other or than King Henrie or King Eâ—…warde claymed and tooke on them 2. Pref. pag. 34. He maketh an other petit quarell at the fourme of the printed letter fol. 49. b. But it is aunswered in his bederoll of vntruthes where he likewise maketh a slurre aboute it Diuerse other petit quarels he dath aboute the distinction of the letter and for cyting the effect of certaine textes and not declaring them worde for worde fol. 50. b. which is aunswered Another quarell he pyketh at the Bishop for citing Emanuell Paleologus â–ª the Emperour of Greeâ—…e Aâ—…other for that he calleth him Christian Emperour 〈◊〉 these arâ—… aunswered in theyr proper places Another â—…or translating Suprema Anchora Supreme Anchore and not the last Anchore but this is likewyse aunswered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like petit quarels he piketh many which here for breuitie I ouerpasse And although there is none vnaunswered in their places yet aunswere them all with his owne wordes A man woulde here suppose master Stapleton that ye had some great and iust occasion thus grieuously to charge such a man as the Bishop is and that in print where all the worlde may read and consider it Pref. 17. VVhat an offence I beseech you hath the Bishop committed herein so great as woâ—…thie a dash with your pen. 〈◊〉 â–ª b. To these he adioyneth his tenth common place which himselfe calleth wordes of course saying these are but wordes of course 1. Pref. pag. 2. And therefore I vsed his owne terme His vvordes of course that is such as may be better returned on himselfe FIrst his beginning of his first Preface with the parable of the foolishe buylder Luc. 14. Whom he compareth the Bishop vnto for attempting this controuersie which he calleth the Castle of our profession and not able to go through therewith is therefore laughed to scorne saying beholde this man beganne to buylde but hee hath not beene able to make an ende That this may be truely recoursed on the Papists all the worlde beginneth to sée and to laugh them to scorne at the ouerthrowe that God hath made of their Nymrods Babilonicall Towre and howe the more they labour to repayre the decay thereof bycause they buylde not on Iesus Christ the Rocke but on the sandes of theyr Fathers traditions they can not therefore with all theyr force inquisitions deuises and attemptes bring their buylding to any good passe their groundworke iâ—… rotten their stuffe is naught and therfore master Stapletons Fortresse and all their Bulwarks are ouerthrowne spirituoris â—…ius with the spirite of his mouth that is with the worde of God. But ye will say sayth he of this parable they be but words of course Well preuented master Stapleton and in time who can rightly say or iudge any other of them sith they be so indéede as your selfe confesse wordes both of ordinarie course with you and all your side and what is sayde in the whole discourse of them but such course stuffe God wote as in recoursing them to you may be more fitly and truely applyed For ensample euen in the similitude ye alleage of the Apples and Grapes of Sodome and Gomorre Pref. 1. pag. 3. fayre to the eye without within nothing but stinking ashes A most liuely picture of the fruites of Poperie more glorious withoute in pompe riches wealth and might of the worlde More shining in outwarde holinesse counterfeyts myracles Iewish ceremonies and Pharisaical workes and in all other things more faire and delectable to the outward senses than euer were the Apples of Sodome or any thing else but within for sounde doctrine and the right worship of God consisting in spirit truth neyther the Apples of Sodome and Gomorre nor Sodome and Gomorre it selfe had euer the like stinch and infection And all those gay things come but to touche them with the touche stone the holye worde of God they smâ—…lder forthwith into Ashes or rather into nothing Uevobis hypocritae sayth Christ VVo bee to you hypocrites that make cleane that is outwarde c. The like recourse is made of all your glorious pamphlets and of this yours in hande there néede none other aunswere than to returne your owne words to your owne selfe thereon It beareth a countenance of truth of reason of learning but come to the triall and examination of it I finde a pestilent ranke of most shamefull vntruthes an vnsauery and vaine kinde of reasoning and last of all the whole to resolue into grosse ignorance Pag. 4. Likewise where he sayth Pag. 8. After all this strugling and wrastling agaynst the truth by you and your fellowes the truth is dayly more and more opened illustred and coÌ„firmed and your contrary doctrine is or ought to bee disgraced and brought in vtter discredite The aunswere to this is the same that 〈◊〉 made to the quarelling sophister If I say it the argument is true if thou sayst it it is false That which ye forge of a namelesse Protestant from one of your lying fellowes 〈◊〉 that A protestant of late dayes being pressed of a Catholike for extreeme lying and not being able to cleare himselfe sayde plainely and bluntly Quamdiu poterâ—… clades adferam latebunt quamdiu poterant valebunt apud vulgâ—… ista mendacia I will deface them and do some mischiefe to them as long as I am able my lyes shall lie hidde as long as may be and at the least the common people shall fall in a liking with them pag. 20. Aâ—… this is most likely to be your owne and your authors lie on the Protestants that at the least the common people might fall in a misliking with vs so is it euidently true if it â—…e recoursed on your owne side all the world can witnesse it hath bene your sayings and doings in very déede and noâ—…e for feare yâ—… should haue bene preuented obiect it in your Preface to vs It is you that with your crueltie and slaunders haue and do say Quamdin potero clades adferam I wil do mischiefe to them 〈◊〉 long as I can It is you that this long while haue slaundered and deuised horrible lies â–ª by those that haue professed the truth altering and chopping their articles saying they mainteyne such and such he resies as they neuer thought and haue sayde Latebunt quamdiâ—… poterunt valebunt apud vulgâ—… ista mendacia These lies shall lie hidden with the vulgare people so long as may be And so haue yée made the people in executing your crueltie beléeue that they did God good seruice So did the Phariseys and highe priestes abuse the 〈◊〉 and ignorance of the Iewishe people with such vntrue slaunders on Iesu Christ himselfe And to the better compassing hereof ye haue set forth lyes for truth and kept
the people ignorant least they should discerne them And ye haue sayd of your hypocritiall errours of your â—…ayned myracles and legends of lies latebunt quam diu pâ—…rerunt vâ—…lebunt apud â–ª 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mendaciâ—… The ignorant people will ostéeme such lying to â—…es And therfore we may well returne your conclusion on your selfe that ye be those false Prophets and lying masters such as Saint Peter spake of bringing in wicked and damnable sects God giue them grace which are deceyued by you so well to knowe you as we that do examine your writings haue good cause to know you And thus your wordes of course fathered as ye call it in a luskie lane of some indiuiduum vagum a certaine Protestant of late dayes and for witnesse hereof aske your fellow if it be not so howe well in euery poynt they appeare that as they say the foxe was the first finder to be your owne tootoo open sayinges and doynges to charge vs withall a Gods name hardily let all the worlde be iudge His obiecting of stragling from the matter fo 4. a. Of false alleaging his Authours wordes fol. 5. b. Of omitting and concealing circumstances fol. 7. a. Of deepe silence to aunswere the pith of the matter fol. 8. a. Of obiecting fleshly pleasures fol. 8. b. Of quarelling that our Bishops be no Bishops fol. 9. a. b. Of passing good maners for misreporâ—…ing n. a. Of obiecting conspiracies and sedition fol. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. Remoue them with a writte of returne to the Papists themselues and then they are fully answered This lo at the least sayth M. St. fol. 37. b. heresie worketh in the Church that it maketh the truth to be more certenly knowne and more firmely and stedfastly afterwarde kept so sayth S. Augustine the matter of the Trinitie was neuer well discussed till the Arrians barked agaynst it c. This is truer M. St. than eyther ye wene or would The experience whereof is dayly to be séene in the Papists defending their errors and impugning the truth in their subtile practises in their tyrannicall inquisitions and cruel torments yea euen in this yours and your fellowes volumes striuing to obscure and deface the truth but all these steps notwithstanding the truth is and shal be more and more set forth the Popish errors â—…sse and lesse begutle vs and the kingdome of Antichrist detected and forsaken Fol. 40. a. M. St. telleth vs that S. Greg. Nazianzen saith Verum est ê™ vnum est mendaciuÌ„ auteÌ„ est multiplex The thing which is true is alwayes one like vnto it selfe whereas the lie the cloked and counterfeyt thing is in it selfe variable and diuerse By the which rule here giuen of so learned and graue a father I am here put to knowledge that the Papists not being content with the onely worde of God alwayes one and like it selfe but ioyning thereto mens variable and diuerse vnwritten verities That the Papistes being not content with the true spirituall worship of one God alwayes one like himselfe not with one mediator Iesus Christ but yéelding spirituall worship to Saints and Saints pictures besides God and making other variable and diuerse mediators to God besides Christ that the Papists being not content with the only merites satisfaction of Christs death always one and like itselfe â–ª but deuising variable and diuerse Masses Diriges Pilgrimages and satisfactions besides being not content with the flat scripture alwayes one and like it selfe that testifieth only faith in christ to be the meanes of appreheÌ„ding our iustification but adding variable diuerse infinit workâ—… of their own to deserue their iustification by being not content with the only title profession of Christianitie alwayes one 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 but sâ—…tting vp variable diuerse feas professioÌ„s religions names besides be but cloked counterleyy liers â–ª as Greg Nazâ—…n hath most truly said And thus ye sée M. St. how you citing falsly this sentence to proue the â—…variable 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe on â–ª the thumbes Fol. 40. b. Let the King sayth master Stapleton reode on Gods name not onely that booke but all the Bible beside it is a worthie studie for him but let him beware least this sweete honie be not turned into poyson to him c. What wordes are here that we say not also yea his permission of Princes to read and studie the Bible â–ª is our most earnest prayer and exhortation And they whatsoeuer they would seeme nowe to pretende bicause they can no longer keepe it vnder their bushell it is full sore agaynst their heart that Princes should read or studie it Otherwise why suffred they not Princes to giue them selues to so woorthie and commendable a studie heretofore And nowe that they can kéepe it in no longer who it is that turneth this sweete honie of Gods worde into poyson is easie to iudge Whether hée that giueth bread to the hungrie bringing forth the whole loafe of the onely pure wheate and willeth them that are to be fedde therewith to sée to view to féelâ—… the whole and in seasonable time breaketh it to his fellow seruants before their faces that they may fully refresh their hungrie seules or he that beateth his fellowe seruaunts hydeth the loafe from them and if he must néedes giue them some mingleth the pure wheate with his owne branne and that worse is with Darnell and more of that by thrée halues than of the wheate and will néedes haue the receyuer blindfolded nor will suffer him to take it in his owne handes but by gobbet meale thrust it into his mouth nor will let the partie sée what in this sort he crammes him with as though he were worse than the Capon in a coupe and yet for all this will beare him in hande it is the true bread Whether of these twaine be the likelier to giue this poysoned bread no man that hath any witte but will giue a shrewde ayme As for false translations false dangerous and damnable gloses wherewith master St. sayth we haue corrupted and watred the same and made it as it were of pleasant wine most soure vinegar it is so euident on his owne part that the Papistes haue so vsed the Scripture and that so shamefully that it séemeth he is past shame that he dare once mencion it and yet he obiecteth it to vs that admit the expresse scripture without any gloses at all Take heede to your selfe Maister Horne for I say to you that you and your fellowes teache false and superstitious religion manie and detestable heresies and so withall playne idolatrie Blot out these wordes Maister Horne and put in Maister Stapleton and then it is truely sayd Although wée not only say it but proue it also And therfore you and your felowes M. Stapleton had nede to take hede thereto fol 42. a. VVe say you are wicked deprauers of religion c. VVe say ye are as great enimies as euer the Church of Christ had
c. VVe say ye be they that haue contemned Christs sacramentes we saye further that not onely the generall Councell of Trent but that the whole Church hath condemned your opinions These woordes of course are answered in their places fol. 56 a He telleth vs we would mayster and rule oure Princes bicause we limit their rule to Gods worde and that wée referre the interpretation of Gods woorde to oure selues that wee make therof a welshe mans hose Whiche woordes of course are answered in their places and are so manifest the dooings of the Papists and so farre from touching vs that it is maruell with what face he could reherse suche things But such is the propretie of impudencie to obiect that to other wherein he is most culpable him selfe fol. 70. VVe plainly say this kind of supremacie is directly against Gods worde so he sayd before and so let him say sâ—…il so long as he doth but say so and can neuer proue it These and suche like his sayings good reader as thou séest them but mere words of course so thou shalt fynd them swarme thorow â—…ut all his booke and if any of them be not answered for thou séest I cut them off for breuitie sake answere then them as thou thinkest good easy answer God wote may serue them and his owne wordes serue for all returned on him selfe 〈◊〉 nomine de 〈◊〉 fubula narratur change but the name and the tale is tolde of thee Fol. 31. b. In the meane season for these and all his other wordes of course I will say to him againe as he sayth to the Bishop Neither vvill I thanke you for bringing to our hands so good stuff to proue our principal purpose by but say herein to you as S. Aug. sayd in the lyke case to the Donatists alleaging the workes of Optatus by whiche they were euen confounded and the catholikes cause maruellously furthered Neâ—…mmen ipsis â–ª c. Neyther doo wee yet thanke them for their so doing but rather God for that they shoulde bring foorth and vtter eyther by talke or by alleaging all those thinges for our matter the truth forced them not any charitie inuited them And so truly M. Stapleton that you haue alleaged all this and other lyke wordes of course when they are 〈◊〉 compensed to you you are euen so confounded by them that it had ben better for your cause ye had not so muche vsed them but that ye brought suche good stuffe to our handes the truth of our cause forceth you not any good will to our cause or to vs moued you Maister Stapletons ovvne vvords returned to him selfe for all these his Common places MOderate your penne better reporte your authors more syncerely translate your allegations more truely laye downe the whole sentence without concealing of such matter as ouerthroweth your purpose say no more than ye fynd in stories slander not your betters deale more aduisedly and vprightly séek not out so often bymatters starting holes quarell not somuch about trifles of letters syllables escapes in printing raile not so bitterly scoffe not so LuciaÌ„like boast vaunt not with such defacings of persons and outfacings of the matter leaue your vain rhetorik of Copia verboruÌ„ and rolling on a letter vse not as ye cal them so many words of course let your tale hang better together without so many contradictions so shall your vntruthes be fewer an other tyme but so wil your cause I assure you M. Sta come starke naked feble and miserable And al your great volume as bare â—…ield as Esops pulde crow as partly may appere by this pretie farâ—…el of some such yeur sentences and ordinarie phrases in a part of the foresayd poyntes and may further be considered what a full and sufficient booke they might make vp of them selues if al the residue throughout all the foure bookes were gathered togither and sorted in their troupes and orders of these your common places But these only shall suffise for this your first booke for a viewe of the rest to shew what good diuinitie of Louaine your volume is most â—…arced withall and what as ye say they shall looke for at your handes Master Stapletons Beadroll and collection of vntruthes vvith a plain and brief ansvver to euery one of them so many as are noted in his fyrste Booke His ovvne chalenge of the Bishop for vntruthes YOur answere is so fraighted and stuffed with falshodes your vntruthes do so swarme and muster all along youre booke that for the quantitie of your treatise you are comparable to Maister Iewell youre vntruthes amounte to the number of sixe hundred fourescore and odde they be so notorious and so many that it pitieth me in your behalf Crocodili lachrymâ—… to remember them but the places be euident and crie corruption and maye by no shifte be denied If my curiositie in noting them displease you lette the vttering of them fyrst displease your selfe then ye will the lesse be displeased with mee You knowe maister Iewell hath led vs this daunce be not angrie Maister Horne if we followe the round 1. Preface pag. 19. The ansvvere to the collection of vntruthes VVinchester If I had not seene a further meaning in his setting foorthe and publishing the booke than he durst playnly vtter Stapleton The first vntruth slaunderous concerning master Feckenhams meaning Bridges Lo euen at the first striking vp of the round what a passing notorious vntruth is here to bee the captain ringleader to all this bande ye may well M. Stapl. not pitie it but pitie youre selfe and be ashamed also to haue so cried out of suche notorious vntruâ—…hes and here to beginne your daunce with this to haue vs look for the lyke to folow the rounde Howe vntrue this is let eche man hardely coniecture and your selfe shew that M. Feckenham durst not say all that he ment oftentimes in excusing him and euen your next vntruth will somewhat declare this further 2 But seing his chief end and principal purpose entended as may be iustly gathered in publishing the booke was to engraffe in the mindes of the subiects a mislikyng of the Queenes Maiestie as thoughe she vsurped a power authoritie in ecclesiasticall matters wherto she hath no right 2 His chiefe ende was farre otherwise as shall appeare You so chalenge this to be an other vntruthe that denying it to be his chiefe ende ye durste not saye but couertly confesse that an ende and purpose of him it was thoughe not the chief end Wherin ye proue that that ye chalenged before for an vntruth to be a truth that he ment more than he durst playnly vtter And yet howsoeuer ye woulde couer his and your meaning here both he in his booke and you in yours also durst plainly vtter that ye mislike hiâ—… Maiesties claime of this supreme authoritie and playnly laye to hir charge vsurpation Howe subiectlike let all true subiectes iudge And sitâ—… this his and youre bookes are
chiefly directed to dissuade hir subiects myndes to whome in hucker mucker ye sende these bookes ouer from the acknowledging of the sayde hiâ—… Maiesties supreme authoritie maye it not truly be sayde men maye iustly gather this as youre chiefe ende Is not euery wriâ—…ers chiefe ende to persuade his reader in his principall matter is not this here youre principall matter to improue the taking vpon hir of this authoritie If ye haue any chiefer ende or more principall purpose that is better than this cléere your self and shew it Uerâ—…ly our chiefest end in writing hereof is to persuade hir subiectes that by your deceiuings stand in any mammering to a godly liking of the sayd title as most dâ—…e and lawfull to hir highnesse estate And if yours be not the contrarie hereto let your doings be according and we shal like it the better But see here M. Stapleton how soone ye folter in your numbers and misse in your tale at the fyrste beginning of all ye haue scored vs vp in your marginall score two vntruthes when ye come to counting them twaine afterward in your answere ye recken vs vp thrée saying of the second in your score This is an vntrue and false surmise of Maister Horne as are the other two here also reckning vp that that ye counted for the first And thus wée knowe not whether we haue euen or odde 2. or 3. Wherby all your reckening is marde and false counted Is this your daunce M. Stap. in beginning to trip the round when one lye tumbles out so proprely in the necke of an other But hoysta God blesse them they fallout faire Howbeit as they say it is a good horse that neuer stumbled thoughe it be an euill signe to stumble yea to fall downe right at the first setting out I make proofe by the continuall practise of the Church in like gouernment as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir The thirde vntruth you neuer proue the like gouernment namely in all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes The truthe or vntruthe of this being referred to the triall in the sayde practise will soone pull backe this thirde dauncer from hopping in your rounde And as for your self ye are a false piper M. Stapleton thus soone vnto your liâ—… to pipe a wrong rounde harping on an other issue than was required of the B. to proue Wherin as your greate falshood â—…hal appeare so your selfe do here halfe graunt this to be no vntruth daring not flatly say the Bishop neuer pro ued the like gouernment which the Bishop only here affirmeth but you denie it in a respect namely say you in al ecclesiasticall things and causes â–ª which the Bishop here affirmeth not nor it is his propre issue in question demaunded of Master Feck and yet he proueth euen that also I haue put into englishe the authors myndes and sentences The fourth vntruth for he wrongfully alleageth both the wordes and meanings of his authours He bringeth no instance at al wherby to proue this that he sayth which til he can do it must go for a lie of his owne making wherby he measureth other mens translations by his owne corrupting his authors wordes sentences mindes and all as is alreadie declared This title is so replenished with vntrue reportes The fyfth vntruth in wrongfully charging M Feckenham for the title of his treatise Whether Master FeckeÌ„hams treatise had a true title or no lette others déeme Maister Feckenham made a treatise entituled by the name of An ansvvere to the Queenes Maiesties Commissioners and the same by writing be deliuered to the Bishop of Winchester and afterwarde sent abroade the sayd Treatise entituled by name The declaration of suche scruples c. as Maister Iohn Feckenham by vvryting did deliuer vnto the Lorde Bishop c. when he neuer deliuered any suche entituled treaâ—…ise vnto him Is this then vntruly or wrongfully donâ—… to charge him of the title of his treatise His sixth and seuenth vntruth trifling denials You. c. not without the helpe of the reste as may be gathered deuised wrote and purposed to deliuer this booke to the Commissioners The eyght vntruth slaunderous Neither doth the Bishop flatly affirme it but only sayth as may be gathered whervpon M. Stapl. can not iustly gather a flat asseueration one way or other â–ª to conclude his vntruth Neither doth M St. improue it any way thoughe â—…e himselfe and that verie often without any coniecturing of the matter and yet can he gather no iust coniecture therof doth boldly charge the Bishop with the helpe of other Which so often as he doth he shoulde remember that this vntruth returneth on himselfe In al which points ye were so answered that ye had nothing to obiecte but seemed resolued and in a manerfully satisfyed The. 9. vntruth M. Feck was neuer so answered And in his couÌ„terblast he saith had not the B. put in these wordes In a maner otherwise it had passed al goodmaner honestie too so vntruly to make report the contrary being so wel known that he neuer yelded vnto you in any one poynt of religion neither in Courte nor yet in mannour nor else where Ye are a mannerly man I perceyue mayster Stapleton and as full of good manners or honestie it appeareth as an egge is full of oatemeale Belike ye haue bene brought vp neyther at courte nor mannour but at Hogges norton as they saye for otherwise what good manner or honestie is this to chalenge youre better of so heynous vntruth and proue nothyng at all agaynste hym but saye the contrarie is well knowne when your selfe knowe it not at al but speake without the booke For shame M. Stapl. learne better maners to referre it to them that were present at the hearing of both parties and then shal ye hazard your honestie and truth a great deale the lesse and shewe your nourture to be the more Wherevpon I made afterwarde relation of good meaning towardes you to certayn honourable persones of the good hope I had conceyued c. The. 10. vntruth incredible VVhat good meaning coulde he haue to him when he would haue him reuolt from the religion by him receiued and professed at Baptisme to reuolt from the faith of Christes catholike churche c. Why Master Stapleton is this incredible that the Bishop hoping of his conformitie in making relation thereof to the honourable might not haue therin a good meaning yea admitte the truth whiche he professeth were as false as you woulde haue it séeme to bée mighte he not for all that haue a good meaning Saule had a good meaning ye wot when he did full ill And how say ye to your Scholemen that speake so muche good of a good meaning yea euen in ill causes But as the Bishop meant wel to him so the cause was good also and your cause naught how well so euer ye meane in an
false Knowledge therfore is not alwayes taken so precisely to be onely of true things but graunting you this precisenesse that knowledge is only taken to be true thingâ—… yet you do yll herein bicause ye take after your ordinarie custome Pro concesso controuersum that to be graunted that is in question whether your or our part be true or false héerin Yea why maye not we saye and that wyth greater reason that you take the truthe for falsehoode and falsehoode for truthe And so you nor any of your syde notwithstanding all youre great bragges and thys your clearkly booke haue anye true knowledge VVell maye ye saye as ye doo moste falsly and to youre poore wretched soule as well in this as in other poyntes moste dangerously beleue the contrarie but know it yee can not vnlesse it were true for knowledge is only of true things and as the Philosopher sayth Scire est per causas cognoscere Do ye know whose words al these be and yet ye sée how they serue our turne far better than yours M. Sta. bycause our cause resteth on the truth which is the infallible worde of God Deus est verax God is true yours is grounded on the doctrines of men Omnis auteÌ„ homo mendax but euery man is a lier And therfore is it lesse maruel sith ignorance and falsehood knowledge truth are al one that ye account somuch of ignorance make it to be the mother of deuotion that ye kepe down the people in ignoraÌ„ce which conspireth with falshood cannot abide knowledge that is linked with truth as ye haue loÌ„g kept the truth vnder a bushel so yet you caÌ„not abide that it shuld come to the knowlege of the people perceiuing the sith knowledge hath begon to spring in the world our cause withal as the truth hath florished yours hath drouped as that falshod wherfore your freÌ„â—… haue cried out vpoÌ„ al good letters séeing that their cause hathe had no greater enimie than knowledge is no greater maynteyner than ignoraunce Qui male agit odit lucem nec venit ad lucem ne opera eius arguantur He that doth euill sayth Christ hateth the lighte nor commeth to the light lest his workes should be reproued Next vnto this you note a rabblement of vntruthes but ye neither number them in youre Calendar but onely marke them with a starre in the forbead nor in youre replie say any more vnto them than this I will not nor tyme will serue to discusse them but why woulde youre will and your time serue you to chalenge them for vntruths and not serue you to discharge your chalenge and your owne truth in prouing them so to be but go to I see there is no remedie wée must tarie your leysure vntil that youre will come on you and that your tyme will serue you Many horrible erroures and superstitions of Monkerie The. 29. vntruth reprochefull and slaunderous This was so vntrue that all the world rang of it and the Papists themselues cried out theron Although ye were in the Tower in king Edwardes tyme that was not for any doubte of the supremacie for that ye still agnised but for other poynts of religion touching the ministration of the sacraments The. 30. vntruth This was not the cause of his imprisonment as shall appeare Here in his beadroll thoughe ye sée he denyeth it â—…latly yet in his counterblast where he toucheth the same he dare not be so impudent But saith as I vnderstande so that if hée be chalenged of rash dealing to affirme that for an vntruth that he stammereth in no will he saye looke my beadroll and ye shall fynde that I denyed it flatly and boldly withoute any stammering at the matter If againe this bolde flatnesse be proued a â—…atte lie â—…ushe will he saiâ—… I referred it in saying it shoulde appeare to my counterblast where I declare no further than I vnderstode by my freendes let it light on them if it be a lie thus cunningly Maister Stapleton hath handled the matter But a manifeste lye it is that he maketh howsoeuer he auonch or mollifie the same For this was a special cause of his imprisonment as those can tell that be yet liuing who were sente to him and to others to persuade them therein And by whome soeuer hée vnderstoode it it is but M. Stapletons and his misseinformers lye And where he would excuse the matter bicause he was examined in the matter of Iustification doth it follow therfore he was not in also for the matter of the sacrament being principally then in controuersie The Bishop only said be was in for other pointes of religion and namely touching the Sacrament but sée howe pretily M. Stapl. would bleare the readers eyes with quarelling at this half point of the sentence least the reader shoulde marke wherin the Bishop principally charged M. Feckenham that hee had confessed this article of supremacie all King Edwardes dayes and so knewe and acknowledged it then contrarie to his pretence of ignorance nowe therin And this digresseth not from the matter in hand But from this M. Stapleton slippeth in great silence and sayeth not a word therto but dalieth about other matters to finde the readers play And so by his owne rule confesseth by not denying the verye poynt in hande that M. Feckenham all king Edwards time though he were in the Tower yet euer hee agnized this title then that he refuseth nowe Wherevnto also you agreed and promised to professe and preache the same in open auditorie wheresoeuer you should be appoynted Wherevpon a right worshipfull Gentleman procured your deliuerance The. 31. vntruth slanderous He was not deliuered vpon any promise of recantation but to bee disputed withall Here M. Stapl. maketh muche adoe to conuince the Bishop of an vntruth and to make it seeme more probable he citeth diuers honourable and worshipfull to witnesse and al nothing to the purpose in hand excusing M. Feckenham of that wherwith no bodie charged him and answering nothyng but by silence consessing that that he was charged withal The bishop made no mention of any conference or disputation had with M. Feckenham after his departure oute of the tower but of that conference whiche was with him maister Moreman and maister Crispine whyle they were in the Tower. When at their owne suite to the councell they desired to haue some learned men with whom to conferre especially about the sacrifice of the Masse the ministration vnder bothe kyndes and the ministration vpon a table and not an altare And at this their sute Master Storie the Bishop then of Chichester and Maister Roberte Horne then parson of All Hallows in Breadsteat now bishop of Winchester were appointed by the honourable counsel to deals with them which they did by the space of a moneth at sundry tymes till that Master Feckenham did â–ª consent with them in all these thrée poyntes and so by maister Hobbies
fourth time dixit Dominus and Samuelem the Lorde sayde or as ye call it pronounced vnto Samuell c. confirming all that he had pronounced before by the former Prophet As for Samuell béeing straightly charged by Hely the hye Priest not by the way of prophecie pronounced those words of the Lords to him or to any other but onely shewed him al that God had sayde Indicauit ei vniuersos sermones non abscondit ab eo And Samuell tolde him euery whit of the â—…ayings and hidde it not from him And therefore where ye say he onely executed the sentence pronounced before by Samuell Gods minister as though God had prophecied it by the mouth of Samuell as he did in the chapter before by an other and as ye say in your Counterblast published before by Samuell the Leuite the texte mentioning neither the pronouncing nor publishing of this sentence by Samuell at all but onely the fore sayde maner of priuate telling to Hely what he heard God pronounce it is but an vntruthe in your selfe to tell your tale so to your aduauntage that it might séeme that Salomon was but the executour of some solemne sentence published and pronounced before by Samuell commaunding or mouing king Salomon to obey that senteÌ„ce and so to depose Abiathar And héere appeares also your other vntruthe that Salomon shoulde doe it to this ende and intent to fulfill this prophecie Which in déede he fulfilled in the dooing but it was not fulfilled by him alone king Saule had fulfilled a greate parte of it before in causing to be killed wickedly the whole familie of Hely excepte onely this Abiathar that escaped by flighte Whiche cruell facte of Saule proceeding onely of méere malice agaynst Dauid and furder agaynst them as Dauids abettours fautours was the onely cause of this tyrannie and not to fulfil Gods prophecie Neither coulde he pretende it and yet he fulfilled the same when he fulfilled his wicked luste But Salomon that deposed Abiathar the onely remaynder of Helies stocke and his sonnes after him had good and righte cause to depriue him and all his posteritie of thys dignitie bicause he was as your selfe confesse a traytour to him For which cause Salomon deposed him and layde this cause to his charge onely not that he must execute Gods sentence of punishing his fathers offence and yet in doing the one he perfourmed the other also Bothe of these Princes were executours of Gods sentence that wrought by his secrete Iustice what soeuer he purposed yea as well by the euill deede of Saule as by the righteous déede of Salomon And things foretolde in the scripture came not to passe bicause they were foretold but bicause they should come to passe therfore they were foretold God did foretell what he would do to that house yet he named not by whom so that none could pretend to do it bicause God had foretold it but when God had done it by suche instruments as he purposed good or bad then the writers of the scripture by the instruction of the holy ghost bicause of the certenty of Gods prophecie doe say it was done to fulfill suche or suche a thing So when Herod had killed the innocents sayth S. Mathew tunc adimpletuÌ„ est theÌ„ was fulfilled that which was spoken by the Prophet Ieremie of which kinde of spéeche as well in factes of the godly as the vngodly we haue many ensamples Though therefore the wordes of the Scripture be Eiccit ergo Salomon Abiathar vt non esset sacerdos domini vt impleretur seâ—…mo Domini quem locutus est super domum Heli in Silo And so Salomon cast out Abiathar from being the priest of the Lorde that the Lordes wordes might be fulfilled which he spake vpon the house of Hely in Silo yet doe not these wordes import that Salomon did it of this purpose to fulfill that prophecie as you woulde make the reader to vnderstande by youre guylefull translation saying And so Salomon put out Abiathar c. to fulfil the words of the Lord as though the cause why he did it was that when the cause was Abiathars treason and therfore he tolde him before he was â—…ilius mortis the childe of death id est sayth Lyra morte dignus pro conspiratione coÌ„trame â—…rdinationem Dei patris mei that is to say Thou art worthie to suffer death for thy conspirâ—…cie against me and the ordinance of God and of my father Here is the verie cause why Salomon deposed him although also he fulfilled therein Gods secret iustice whiche the holie writer considering wrote vt adimpleretur that the Lordes woordes might be fulfilled c. And thus whyle yée would charge the Bishop with one lye euen your self discharge him and you committe a couple for failing to menâ—… the matter withall Neyther the Priestes nor the Leuites swarued in any thing pertayning to their office from that the king commaunded them The 43. vntruhe those woordes are not in the Scripture alleaged These wordes make a heynous quarell at which wordes also in his Counterblast he stormeth saying He hath swarued lewdly from the text added wordes more than is exprest and that with suche homely shiftes an yll cause must be furthered And when all is done it is but a little parenthesis placed in the middle of the text by the way of explication tâ—… declare wherein the king commâ—…ded them and they obeyed in their offices nexte before set out howe the king ordeyned according to the disposition of Dauid his father the offices of the Priests in their ministeries and the Leuites in their orders to prayse God and minister before the Priests according to the custome of euery day and the porters in their diuisions porte by porte for so had Dauid a man of God commaunded and neither the Priestes nor the Leuites swarued from any thing that the king commaunded Thus lyeth the texte worde for worde Wherein the Bishop placing this parenthesis â–ª what did he that any most exacte interpreter might not do M Stap. héere escrieth it for so horrible a cryme yea and an vntruthe of his bedroll withall wheraâ—… first there is no vntruthe at all in the parenthesis and himselfe in the same chapter confesseth for Princes a great deale more that they may not onely commaunde the Priests to do those things that appertayne to their office but cause them to do them which is a manyfest proofe of the Princes supreme authoritie 〈◊〉 them so that vntruthe in this parenthesis was there none Nor any other faulte at all sauing that M. Stapleton was frowardly disposed to picke a quarell at the forme and print of the letter not at the matter as though those wordes were pretended to be the wordes of the texte wherein he himselfe though there were some negligence in the printing dothe yet excuse the Bishop of this faulte of any suche addition of wordes For twice in his Counterblast mentioning those
Apostles Peter and Paule doe playnely declare The. 57. vntruthe The Apostles neuer declared any such matter So saye you in déede â—… Stapleton but the Bishops proofes out of Chrisostome and sainct Augustine do playnly declare they did The. 58. vntruth Of misunderstanding sainct Augustine bicause besides this bederoll he also chargeth the Bishop therewith at large in the Counterblast it is answered seuerally in the answere of the. 18. chapter Not meaning only the transgressors of the seconde table in teÌ„porall matters but also agaynst the offendours of the first table in spirituall or ecclesiasticall causes or matters The. 59. vntruthe Sainct Augustine meaneth not to teach suche gouernement of Princes in ecclesiasticall matters as you teache but onely to punishe Heretikes and by the same to mayntayne the Catholike fayth decreed by the Clergie not by the ciuill Magistrate Belike ye can tell better what sainct Augustine meant than be could him selfe But S. Augustine is playne he néedeth no suche interpreter Remember your owne note maledicta glossa quae corrumpit textum Cursed be that glose that corrupteth the text S. Aug. interpreting the mynd of the Apostle to be that the authoritie power of Princes hath to deale in ecclesiastical causes so wel as in teÌ„poral The. 60. vntruth Saint Augustine neuer wrote so Ye shoulde haue tolde out the sentence of S. Augustine that the B. citeth which fully proueth it and then haue improued it as an vntruth if ye coulde whiche although ye do not yet in the margine of that sentence ye crye out lustily and say where is there in all this master Horne that the Princes haue to deale in ecclesiastical causes so well as in temporall For sooth master Stapleton euen here at your hand in this present sentence wherein S. Augustine proueth and your selfe also graunt so muche that the Princes authoritie punishethe so well abuses in eccl. causes and faultes againste religion as it doth ciuill or temporall causes but it punisheth all external faultes and abuses in al ciuil and temporal causes that by his supreme authoritie therein not as an others executioner Ergo it punisheth al external abuses and faults in all ecclesiasticall causes and religion and that by his supreme authoritie therein and not as the clergies executioner Eusebius c. vnderstanding the ministerie of the ciuill Magistrate to be about Gods religion and eccle causes so well as temporall The. 61. vntruth Eusebius neuer vnderstoode any such ministerie of the ciuill Magistrate In what things Eusebius vnderstoode the ciuil Magistrats ministerie to consist the B. set downe Eusebius his owne wordes to proue that he vnderstood it so you say he neuer vnderstoode it so but ye set downe neuer a worde neyther here nor in your Counterblaste to proue the contrarie which tyll ye shall be able to do the Byshoppes vnderstanding of Eusebius by his owne wordes is no vntruthe Eusebius saythe that in preaching by hys decrees true godlynesse in setting foorthe the religion of the moste holy lawe and the most blessed faythe the Princes ministerie consisteth in these things so wel as any other or before al other as his best ministerie But these things are not ciuill matters but spirituall and ecclesiasticall Ergo his ministerie by Eusebius vnderstanding consisteth so well in ecclesiasticall or spirituall matters as ciuill or temporall This moste Christian Emperoure did rightly consider as he hadde bene truely taughte of the moste Christian Byshoppes of that tyme that as the Princes haue in charge the mynisterie and gouernement in all manner causes eyther temporall or spirituall The. 62. vntruth impudent and shamelesse concluded but no whit proued And in his Counterblast I say it is a starke and most impudent lye that ye say without any profe Constantine was taught of the Byshoppes that Princes haue the gouernement in all manner causes eyther temporall or spirituall ye conclude after your manner facingly and desperately vvithout any proufe or halfe proufe in the worlde Here are wonderfull boysterous wordes Master Stapleton but greate boast and small roaste as they say For all this hyghe chalenge standeth on I saye and so in déede it appéereth to be your saying but hadde it not béene your saying Master Stapleton I woulde haue thought it hadde béene some cotqueanes cryaleyson and I woulde haue answered a wispe a wispe for setting aside your foule language what vntruthe is here concluded or what concluded that is not proued The Prince hath the setting foorthe of true religion of Gods moste holy lawe and the moste blessed faythe but these thinges are not ciuill but ecclesiasticall and spirituall the Prince hath to puâ—…te awaye and ouerthrowe all euilles that presse the vvoorlde but none presse the worlde more daungerously than superstition Idolatrie erroures heresies scismes sectes and false religion all whiche are no ciuill but ecclesiasticall and spirituall matters The Prince dothe these thinges not as an executioner of an others ministerie but all the dooing hereof is the ministery properly beloÌ„ging to his owne office yea it is his best ministerie Ergo he dothe all these thinges with as muche or more full and proper authoritie of his office â–ª as he dothe any other ciuill thing But his ministerie in ciuill things is by his supreme authoritie vnder God therin whose minister S. Paule calleth him This is the Bishops conclusion moste playne and true all your blackemouthed Rhethorike to the contrarie notwithstanding For this cause also Nicephorus c. compareth Emanuell Paleologus the Emperoure to Constantine For this cause the. 63. vntruthe as shall appeare There is no doubt some great cause that moued you M. Stapleton to put this in your bederoll of vntruthes that the Bishop sayd for this cause And if you were asked for what cause ye doe so it séemeth it would be harde for you to render any and therefore ye take a wise and a short way to tell vs it shall appeare But here ye shewe none nor any at all here appeareth And where it shoulde appeare there appeareth none also except this be sufficient reason onely to denie it and say it is no cause at all For these wordes onely appeare there VVhere ye say for this cause also c. this is no cause at all but is vntrue as of the other Emperour Constantine and muche more vntrue as ye shall good reader straight way vnderstande What cause I pray you is here alleaged and yet this is all that ye say vnto it sauing that as ye sayde before it shoulde appeare referring vs there hither here ye saye as the reader shall straightway vnderstande it And yet neyther straight way nor crooked way ye speake one worde more of the matter but goe about the bushe medling with other matters and not with the truthe or vntruthe hereof any more And so it appeareth nusquam and the reader shall vnderstande it nunquam Neyther is it any maruell if ye can not lette the reader to
to forsake this religion In the first parte he sheweth that Master Fekenham could not answere the B. him selfe but he sheweth no other reason thereof than this seing his state is such Secondly that the cause why he more than any other of his complices tooke vpon him to answere this least it should appeare to come of his owne ambitious busiositie was only at the request of some of his friends he will not tell of whom for so perhaps be might detect him selfe to be a disciple of BalaaÌ„s marke hyred for lucre to curse with his cursed and blackmouthed Rhetorike the Churche and truth of god And bicause hereby be would haue the reader couertly to vnderstande what kinne a great clerke he is of what terrour to his enemies and estimation among his friendes to entreate him more than any of all the rest to atchieue this enterprise he telleth vs he was not very willing therto bicause forsooth he purposed hauing so largely prouoked suche sharpe aduersaries especially M. Ievvell for a season to rest and stande to his owne defence if any would charge him Wherein he would not haue ye forget what a lustie prouoker of sharpe aduersaries he is And although for two causes he was lothe to medle therewith first for that many things in this booke pertaine to certaine priuate doinges betwixt M. Feckenham and M. Horne of the vvhich saith he I had no skill secondly for that a number of such priuate matters touching the state of the realme occurred as to them vvithout farder aduice I could not throughly shape any ansvvere yet notwithstaÌ„ding all these thinges that neyther touched M. Stapleton nor he had any skill of them nor could shape any ansvvere to them he must néedes intrude and busie him self to shape some mishapen ansvvere his fingers itched since none of al his sharpe aduersaries would once deigne to answere him to prouoke the B. in these things and where his skill should faile rather than his will should faile he would furnish out his answere with his foresaide common places in which he hath a very good skill and grace As for the residue of his wantes aftervvarde it so hapned saith he that by suche as I haue good cause to credite there came to my knovvledge such instructions as vvell for the one as for the other that I vvas better vvilling to employ some paines and studie in this behalfe How these instructions hapned to him we must not vnderstande all for feare it fall out as they say that asking his felow if he be a theeâ—… two false companions néede no broker As it will I feare me fall out Master Stapleton in the scanning of your false informations whereof your selfe were vnskilfull ye saye but ye haue good cause to credite them were the more vvilling to employ your paines and studie therein and good reason ye should credite them that make any thing for you For why they be credible men of your owne partie be it true or false they tell you recke not you let them beare the blame if they lie you did but tell it for them Why should ye not therefore employ your paines and studie to painte it out that the more willingly since they do paie well for it Now M Stapleton being wel instructed though he promise to take the vvillinger paines and studie in this behalf yet must ye not presuppose that he taketh this vpoÌ„ him for that saith he I thinke my selfe better able than other but for that I vvould not it should seeme there lacked any good vvill in me either to satisfie the honest desire of my friendes or to helpe and releue such as by suche kinde of bookes are already pitifully inuegled and deceaued or to stay other yet standing that this booke be not at any time for lacke of good aduertisement a stumbling stocke vnto them What soeuer here M. Sta. ye pretende of your forward good will who so coÌ„ferreth here with your CoÌ„mon place of boastings crakes may easily returne your own saying on your selfe that these are but vvordes of course to saue your poore honestie least men should sée detest your ambitious vaine glory herein Neyther doth your preposterous zeale couer it any whit except this be to helpe relieue a stuÌ„bler where scarce a straw laye in his waye before to tumble a stocke into his path to make him fall downe right Now that M. St. hath shewed the occasions that pricked him forward to set on the B. He secondly sheweth the manner of his answere Wherein first after his ordinarie crakings of his poore labour of his diligence of his vvhole and full replie he excuseth his long tediouse babling vvherein I rather feare saith he I haue saide to much than to litle which in déede he hath good cause to feare as his Common places do shal declare And yet would he haue euery word put in replied vnto him selfe in his owne coÌ„science hauing sayd to much alreadie But to excuse this faulte he hath a sufficient reason at hande that tediousnes is good to make al perfect and therefore he had rather be tediouse than shorte Thus hauing handsomly excused the matter he secondly sheweth the order of the Bishops booke M. Hornes ansvvere as he calleth it resteth in tvvo partes Why M. St. how call you it may it not thinke you be called an answere that answereth the demaunde or request of an other but as you wrangle péeuishly about the name so that curiouse fine pate of yours disdeyneth the playnâ—… and simple name of an answere or replie or any other vsuall worde as ye pretende to auoyde confusion but in déede to shew some singuler conceite and excelleÌ„cie of your booke which so finely ye Entitle A counterblaste to say the truth a blast not worth a counter to counterblowe and all to blast the Bishops answers with all The two partes that he deuides the Bishops booke into are these In the first saith he and chiefest he playeth the opponent laying forth out of the holy Scriptures both Olde and Nevve out of Councels both generall and nationall out of Histories Chronicles of all couÌ„tries running his race froÌ„ Constantine the great dovvne to Maximilian great grandfather to the Emperour that novv liueth taking by the vvay the Kings of France of Spaigne and of our owne countrie of England since the conquest all that euer he coulde finde by his ovvne studie and helpe of his friendes partly for profe of the like gouernmeÌ„t of Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes as the oth attributeth novv to the crovvne of Englande partely for the disproofe of the Popes supremacie vvhich the othe also principally extendeth to exclude In the secoÌ„d and later parte he playeth the defendaÌ„t taking vpon him to ansvvere and to satisfie certaine of M. Feck â–ª argumeÌ„ts and scruples of coÌ„scieÌ„ce vvherby he is moued not to take the othe Hovv vvell he hath played both his partes â–ª the perusall of this
replie vvill declare Hovv vvell so euer he hath played his partes full ilfauoredly you begin to plaie yours M. Stap. thus to wrangle about the partes of opponent and answerer The B. playeth not the opponent but you playe the Marchant The B. not in playe but in truth good earnest as M. Feckenham pretendeth to 〈◊〉 requireth to be satisfied answereth to his requestes by the foresayde proues that here ye confesse he bringeth forth The partie opponent as in the other scruples still is M. Feckenham But be he opponent or defendaÌ„t as either of theÌ„ in respects may be either if he bring those proues that ye graunt he doth ye haue litle occasioÌ„ to make a playe scoffe at the matter Neither doth this blemish the truth froÌ„ whom he had it wher with ye would séeme as it were with an awke blowe to foyle the B. learning that he founde out these prooues not all by his owne studie but by the helpe of his friends Which as you M. Stapleton for your owne parte were faine to confesse right now so is there no cause ye should measure the Bishops knowledge by your owne defecte But herein ye do but as the residue do this is the fashioÌ„ of all your coÌ„péeres Where truth faileth you â–ª at the least to winne a credite of learning to your selues like prowde Pharisies ye dispise al other besides your selues To which purpose as M. Stapl. would staine the Bishops godly and learned labour herein at the least that all might not séeme to be his owne but gathered by others to his hands so in the telling of his owne well ordered péece of worke he setteth out euery point to the vttermost to coÌ„mende the better vnto vs his great learning industrie and perspicuitie He telleth vs solemnly how to the first parte he replieth in three bookes how he hath deuided eche booke into seuerall chapters what he hath noted at the toppe of eche page But he telleth not what common places he hath set out in eche line He telleth how he hath exceedingly lightned the matter and what recapitulations he hath made thereof To the second parte he telleth vs it shall appeare but when he telleth vs not both what strong and inuincible arguments M. Feknam right learnedly proposed as most iuste causes of his said refusall And also vvhat â—…ely shiftes and miserable escapes M. Horne hath deuised to maynteine that obstinately vvhich he once conceaued erroneously And thus forsoothe nothing to the prayse and setting forth of him selfe M. Feckenham nor to the blemishing of his aduersarie hath M. Stapleton deuided the content of the Bishops answere and his counterblast thereto Now thinking with this preiudice of both their labours he hath sufficiently affectionate the Reader to his partie thirdly he entreth into a generall fore warning of him the effect whereof is to forsake this religion which he beginneth with this earnest adiuring of him Novv good Reader saith Master Stapleton as thou tendrest thine owne saluation â–ª and hopest to be a saued soule in the ioyful and euerlasting blisse of heauen so consider and vveigh vvith thy selfe the importaunce of this matter in hande What hope of saluation M. St. can the Popish doctrine bréede that alwayes doubteth as much of damnation as it hopeth of saluation haÌ„geth wauering betwene dispayre hope admitting no certentie of faith or trust to grouÌ„de vpoÌ„ The attenâ—…ion that ye desire in the Reader we as earnestly desire the same also neither that he come to reade attentiuely with any preiudicate opinion on either parte as you would haue his minde foresâ—…alled on your side but euen with indifferencie as he shall finde the matter in hande to leade him so to weigh and consider the importance thereof euen as he tendreth and verely hopeth his ovvne saluation And as the Reader shall do this for his parte so let vs sée how you do for yours and of what great importance your arguments are to sturre vp this earnest attention in the Reader The first argument that ye make is this First vvithout authoritie is no religion Then if this Religion vvhereby thou hopest to be saued haue no authoritie to grounde it selfe vppon vvhat hope of saluation remayning in this religion canst thou receyue Now as though the Maior were in controuersie and the pointe we sticke vpon he first solemnely strengthneth it with the authoritie of S. Augustine For no true religion saith S. Augustine can by any meanes be receaued vvithout some vvaightie force of authoritie As for the Minor which determineth nothing but hanging on a conditionall pinne maketh no directe conclusion too or fro We graunt him that iâ—… our religion haue no authoritie no hope of saluation can be grounded thereon But then he replieth If it haue any authoritie it hath the authoritie of the Prince by vvhose supreme gouerment it is enacted erected and forced vpon thee other authoritie hath it none Ergo For want of sufficient good authoritie it is no true Religion Ye desired right now M. St. euen as the Reader tendreth his ovvne saluation to consider and vveighe vvith him self the importance of this matter And is this all the importance of your first argument against our Religion that the Reader should weigh coÌ„sider so déepely What is here alleaged besides a bolde and manifest slaunder forced vpon the Reader by the authoritie onely of your bare woorde Which the more the Reader shall consider and especially thus your beginning for an handsell of good lucke to the residue he shall the better perceaue the falshood and impudencie of your whole cause dealing For to set one If against another If the reader better coÌ„sidering weighing with himself shal finde this religioÌ„ not to be of so late enacting erecting forcing but enacted erected and forced of God in his holy woorde shall not this coÌ„sideration detect you to be a malicious slauÌ„derer if the reader with al shall vveigh the peise of your argument that the Prince hath a supreme gouernment in all Ecclesiasticall causes Ergo the Religion that the Prince sets forth hath noâ—…e other authoritie but of him shal be not finde it like the father of it as light as a thing of nought But exhorting the Reader to vveigh and consider the matter not considering nor vveighing what ye say your selfe ye blunder on in your Ifs and say If then that supreme gouernment that hauing none other authoritie enacteth erecteth and forceth a Religion vpon thée be not due to the laie Prince but to the spirituall Magistrate and to one chiefe Magistrate among the vvhole spiritualtie thou â—…eest thy ReligioÌ„ is but a bare name of religion and no religion in deede Here whether he be ashamed to set it downe or thinketh it so cléere it néedeth not recital but is inferred of the Maior he leaueth out the Minor of his argumeÌ„t But that supreme gouernment is due to one chiefe spirituall magistrate only and to
Princes that they mislyke and is in déede to be vtterly mislyked of all Christians But as this is a plaine description of your Popes supremacie that playeth in all these poynts Heraclius part so it nothing toucheth that supremacie that the Quéenes maiestie claymeth It is but your wicked malice to slaunder hir with such tyrannicall vsurpation of Heraclius as they condemne Whie doe ye not rather take theyr other comparison from Constantinus Pogonotus to al other godly Princes and referre that to hir regiment With what care and singuler diligence trauaile and godlinesse when the Churches were horibly deformed and torne by the sect of the Monothelites He summoned the sixt generall Councell he ouerwhelmed not the debating of the controuersie of doctrine by might or preiudice He willed the Ministers of the Churche and preachers of the worde of God to searche out which opinion was and which was not agreable to holye writte He regarded not the ensamples of hys auncesters who by publike Edictes had approued the doctrine of the Monothelites which was harde for him to abolishe Neyther did the authoritie of the Patriarches and Bishoppes in Constantinople and all ouer the East that stifly helde that opinion any thing moue him Nor he suffred himselfe to be made afrayde although he heard that the pryde of the Byshop of Rome was incredible as one that wickedly chalenged a dignitie and authoritie aboue other Bishops and teachers But sent his letters to him exhorting him to come or sende some other in his place Neyther gaue he him any prerogatiue nor craueth licence of hym to call the Councell but of hys owne duetie he defineth him selfe for the appoynting of the Councell He louingly biddeth the Romaine and other Bishoppes not to bee absent at so necessarie matters and concerning the Churches publike weale The Emperour himselfe is present at the Synode not as a dumbe or deafe person like a cifer in Algorisme or receyuing the decrees without iudging of them or placing the B. of Romes Legates in the chiefest place and receyuing them without all contradiction as oracles from them as it were from Apollos triuet but modestly reuerently and godly as much as became his calling he gouerned the Synode propounding to them the state or scope of the cause and enquiring on a rowe gathered their sentences togither least ought should be done rashly or confusedly He commaunded not the one partie but the contrarie partie also plainly and without subtilties to declare their opinions and what groundes they had of their sentences out of the holye scriptures and what autenticall witnesse of the approued fathers And so forth they declare howe indifferently he dealt with either partie knowing that he must not condemne any before he knewe the full matter And when it was euidently found out that the Monothelites could not defend their opinion by the clere testimonies of the scripture nor any sentences of the doctours allowed yea when it was founde out they hacked of purpose certaine of the Doctours sayings and in place of them cited certeyne sayings falsly fathered in the Doctors names theÌ„ the Emperor subscribed to the iudgemeÌ„t of al those that thought aright and earnestly and stoutly executed the condemnation made in the name of them all Here these wryters commend this Emperor the more for that he had about him no doubt say they such parasites as woulde tickle in his eare that these thinges were vnsitting foâ—… his maiestie to intermeddle him selfe with the brawles of the Churches pelting Doctours It were a blemish to him to condemne his ancesters to cal into doubt or retract things already decreed This were not the safest way Let the bishops alone with the matter for euen they are able to make lawes agaynst the Emperors estate and abase it The Emperour by his authoritie may do no more than commaund silence sende into exile or punish with other violence those that make clamors or disobey the councels decree But the Emperor not regarding these fancies thought it honorable to him to be present in the midst of the teachers of gods worde assisting not a little the triall and iudgement of the coÌ„trouersie This ensample these wryters thus set out for a princes gouernmeÌ„t dealing ouersight in the chiefest ecclesiastical causes And thus before they determined in generall that God or deined not Princes to spoile their subiects and make themselues â—…at Neither onely to attende to outward discipline and that men may liue in honest tranquilitie for say they seing that magistrates are in the scriptures called Gods this ought to bee their first and chiefest care that their subiects serue God after such a sorte that his kingdome in their dominions may bee knowne encreased and conserued that is to were sincere doctrine c. may be deliuered remaine passe froÌ„ theÌ„ to their posteritie To this end tendeth all politike administration all defence of peace and neighborhod that laborsome care of getting the liuing gathering goodes that these spirituall euerlasting goodes both of the body of the mind should be gotten Thus do they stretch out further than doth M. St. the bounds of a princes gouernment to al ecclesiastical canses And all that they write on the other part is against such a popish supremacie as establisheth maketh a new religioÌ„ quicquid imperitaâ—…erit reâ—… And yet sée howe spitefully and falsly M. St. wresteth it as writteÌ„ against the Q. maiestie When as he confesseth himselfe they coÌ„mend hir euen by the ensample of Constantine they allow that supreme gouernment that she doth take vpon hir Now M. St. after his maner presupposing we will reiect these writers as though they spake against the supreme gouernmeÌ„t of the Quéene In case ye thinke sayth he theyr testimonie not to haue weight ynough then herken to your their Apostle Luther who writeth that it is not the office of kings princes to coÌ„firm no not the true doctrine but to be subiect and serue the same The effect of this argument is this princes must not take on them so to confirme the true doctrine that they be not subiect therevnto nor serue but rule the same Ergo Princes may not set forth the true doctrine nor be supreme gouernors in their dominions ouer all ecclesiastical persons and causes This argument is like to his fellowe aboue And as ye wrested the former writers so wrest ye Luthers saying also whose seÌ„tence as it is nothing against the godly gouernment of our most noble soueraigne subiect to the principall authoritie of Gods word that it might be of chiefest authoritie subduing thereto the authoritie of all other writers remouing those superstitions that exalted them selues in authoritie equall or aboue Gods worde so this sentence is eftsones as the other agaynst such vsurpation as is euident that your Pope taketh vpon him But M. Stapleton dreaming that he hath so sore pressed vs and this is so harde and straunge a case that
him agayne making the king become vassall feodatarie to the Pope and to holde the crowne and realme of him in fee farme and pay 700. marks a yere for England and. 300. for Irelande And hath not the Pope chalenged other kingdomes also yea doth he not clayme to be the chiefe Lorde and Prince of all kingdomes and to set vp and depose what king or prince he pleased And he that beléeued not this was not counted a noddie but an heretike And yet sayth M. St. was there euer any so much a noddie to say and beleeue the Pope raigned here but all Papistes muste be noddies with him yea his owne Pope in steade of a triple crowne muste weare a cockes combe and him selfe for companie will beare the bell But here he leapeth backe agayne to M. Gilbie not for the matter of supremacie but for his misliking of certayne orders of religion in king Edwards dayes and here vpon pleadeth that the Papistes are nowe more to be borne withal if they can not beare the seruice and the title set foorth I answere first M. St. another mans faults excuse not yours Neither Anthonie Gilbies and yours are alike For were his greater or any of those Protestants that ye vpbrayde vnto vs afterwards yet are they lesse in that they obstinately maynteyned not the same nor persisted therin nor attempted any conspiracies nor would haue a foraigne supreme nor suche an other as your Pope the father of errors and so on their submission or repentaunce their fault is pardoned or made lesse But you obstinately maynteine a playne refusall of obedience would haue a foraigne vsurper be your supreme and not onely subdue the realme and our bodies to his tyrannie but our soules to his errors neither do ye repente therof but perseuer in it and by wicked Libels priuie conspiracies and all other meanes that ye can deface Gods worde your natural prince natiue countrey your fault therfore is much greater thā his or theirs And therfore your wilful obstinacie is not to be borne withal especially since after so long and gentle tollerance of the Quéenes moste gracious lenitie towards you ye encrease your malice and harden your hearts with Pharao abusing hir highnesse lenitie Now where the Bishop sayd these dealings were a preparation to rebellion agaynst the Queenes person M. Stap. sayth that it nothing toucheth hir person nor hir crowne And that without the ecclesiasticall authoritie the crovvne hath continued and flourished moste honorably many hundreth yeres ▪ and shall by Gods grace continue full well and full long agayne when it shall please God. Why M. Stap. what meane ye by this dothe not the crovvne flourishe and continue euen nowe also God be praysed for it why say you then it hath flourished and shal agayne when it shall please God as though it dyd not now And the state of the Crovvne were nowe no estate or a very ill estate in the reigne of the Quéenes maiestie If this be not a preparation to rebellion to make the Subiectes mislike the estate of the Crovvne is it not then euen a rebellious Proclamation it selfe but let vs sée your argument that ye make hereon to excuse your selues Diuers Princes haue continued and flourished honorably of long time without the ecclesiasticall authoritie Ergo it is nowe no preparation to rebellion agaynst the Quéenes person to refuse hir authoritie ouer all causes ecclesiasticall and to defende that it apperteyneth not to hir person or Crowne I answere First the worde ecclesiasticall authoritie is very subtilly and doubtfully spokē as though hir highnesse went about to play the minister If ye meane so the antecedent is then true The ecclesiasticall authoritie nothing toucheth hir person or crowne ▪ without the whiche it hath most honorably continued and flourished many hundreth yeres and shall by Gods grace continue ful wel and ful long agayne when it shal please God. But then is this your most spitefull slaunder to say that the Quéene now taketh vpon hir eccl. authoritie and that it is now vnited to hir person or crowne which is most euident false And therefore the crowne flourisheth for any suche matter so well as euer it did And God graunt it neuer to flourish worsse than it doth vnder hir Maiestie now But the antecedent béeing so farre foorth true as is declared then the consequent followeth not that it is now no preparation to rebelliō to refuse hir authoritie ouer all eccl. causes and to defende that it perteyneth not to hir person or crowne But if in the antecedent by ecclesi authoritie ye meane authoritie ouer ecclesiasticall matters then the antecedent is false and so to be proued by the issue of the practise in this Realme Neither is it any good argument Bicause many tooke it not on them Ergo none may Bicause they did not vse it Ergo they ought not Bicause they had worldly prosperitie without it Ergo it was not necessarie to them Bicause the denial was no preparation to rebellion then Ergo it is none nowe None of these causes are sufficient M. St. and therefore your subtile and false reason fayleth Now when ye sée nothing will fadge this way eyther to defende you or to accuse vs ye will set vpon vs for other matters that we are those that make this preparation to rebellion Let this title and eccl. iurisdiction goe say you which all good princes haue euer forgone as nothing to them apperteyning let vs come to the very temporall authoritie and let vs consider who make any preparation of rebellion the Catholikes or the Protestants In letting that go M. Stap. that appertayneth to this title and ecclesiasticall iurisdiction ye let go your matter and after your maner make so many impertinent discourses contrarie to that ye called vpon before neuer to swerue from the question in hande and nowe your selfe swerue of purpose from it Howebeit shall we let you go so rounde away with suche a heape of notorious lyes that all good Princes haue euer forgone this title and ecclesiasticall iurisdiction as nothing to them appertayning that not some or many but all good Princes haue forgone and euer forgone both this title and also ecclesiasticall iurisdiction and so euer forgone it as nothing pertayning to them If ye coulde haue shewed this ye should haue well spent your time and kept ye nearer your matter ye néeded not haue fisked about so many by quarels But this could ye not proue and therfore it was necessarie ye should runne to them picking quarels at vs not marking your owne wicked defacing of your Prince whome otherwhiles so fauningly ye flatter For whereto else tendeth this saying all good princes haue euer forgone this tytle and ecclesiasticall iurisdiction as nothing perteyning to them but to inferre that all those princes that take on them or will at any time not forgoe thys title eccl. iurisdiction as apperteyning to them are ill and wicked Princes What else can be made of
be moued from them And neuer so little a motion for M. Feckenham went not ouer farre I warrant you coulde not be made of mercy and consideration without great displeasure taken Ye haue well described the state of your Popes raigne M. Stap. so vnmercyfull an estate and inconsiderate that for description thereof ye doe best as dyd Timantes when he paynted the mourners at the sacrifice of Iphigenia setting out one wéeping another with this another with that heauie visage when he could not deuise a more dolâ—…rous couÌ„tenance he paynted Agamemnon hiding his face with a kerchiefe so you wheÌ„ ye can not sufficiently set foorth those dolefull tymes ye do wisely in that ye omit to expresse them and therein ye expresse them most of all And woulde ye haue lyke mercy and consideration sheshed nowe to the Papistes as the Papistes shewed then to the Protestantes Alas master Stap. if but halfe a quarter of suche extremitie were shewed nowe as was shewed then it woulde goe harder with master Feckenham and other his complices than it dothe No no M. Stap. their chambers their walkes their libertie their ease their fare is nothing like your doÌ„geoÌ„s your stockes your colehouses your famine your racks your gaggs your whipping there rostmeate at a stake that ye gaue the protestants I warrant ye M Fe. lookes not like a ghost nor like a poore scholler of Cambridge or Oxford perchaunce fares better than some studeÌ„ts of diuinitie in Louayne It is easy to discernâ—… M. St. what spirite either religion is of the protestants and the papists euen by this your own note of vnmercifulnesse and mercy and now saith M. St. let vs proceede on to the residue of your booke The fifth Diuision THe Bishop of Winchester after he hath shewed on M. Feckenhams wordes the entent of the Othe and the entent of M. Feckenh booke to be contrarie and therefore what soeuer he offreth in wordes he denieth the same in déedes and in the beginning for ensample dalieth with the Oth about dominions persons thinking therby he escapeth the principall ende of the Othe in this diuision sheweth first how doublie he dealeth in pretending as though the Bishop had forced him to sweare but there was no such Othe offred or required betwéene them â—…rgo A man might well marâ—…aile that he shamed not to pretende such a lie Secondly the Bishop sheweth how M. Feckenham is taken in his owne daliaâ—…ce The Bishops reason is this In that ye graunt to her Highnesse the onely supreme rule ouer the Laye and Ecclesiasticall persons you haue all ready proued withall the causes also euenby a supreme gouernors definition A supreme gouernour or ruler is one who hath to ouerseâ—… guide care prouide order and directe the thinges vnder his gouernment rule to that ende and in those actions which are appointed properly belong to the subiect or thing gouerned But the Queenes Highnesse is by your own coÌ„fession the only supreme gouernour ouer al manner persons Ecclesiasticall c. Ergo Hir highnes hath to ouersee guide care prouide order and direct to that ende and in those actions which are appointed do properly belong to persons Ecclesiasticall And thus concludeth that M. Feckenham grauÌ„ting thus much for fashion sake in generall speache is but a dissembler and in déede denieth the obedience of the person also or els he péeuishly standeth on the distinction of the cause which in full effect he hath graunted alreadie To the first parte M. Stapleton answereth Here is first a worshipfull reason and cause to meruaile at M. Feckenham that he should by writing presently offer him selfe to receyue an Othe bicause he neuer made mention of any suche othe before neither any suche was at any time of him required surely this is as great a cause to wonder as to see a goose go barefoote Ye plainly falsifie the Bishops woordes M. Stapl â–ª he said not that M. Feckenham neuer made mencion of any suche othe before but he saide that he neuer made any motion of such an offer to him So that this declareth both a double dealing of him also a wresting of you But this in eyther of you muste not be wondered at as a rare dealing that in lying and wresting ye be shamelesse bicause it is as common to you as to sée a goose go barefoote and as rare as to heare a barefoote Foxe preach to shod géese in Louaine Secondly to the Bishops argument he saithe But now will he play the worthy Logitian and M. Feckenham will he nill he shal be driuen by fine force of a Logicall definition to graunt the Queene to be supreme head in all causes Ecclesiasticall for that he graunteth hir to be supreme head of all persons both Ecclesiastical and Temporal Bicause saith he the supreme gouernour or ruler is he that ordereth and directeth all actioÌ„s belonging and appointed to the subiectes and thereby enferreth that the Queenes Maiestie is supreme and onely gouernour eueÌ„ in those actions that belong to Ecclesiasticall persons which are causes Ecclesiasticall But as good skill as this man hath in Logike which is correspondent to his diuinitie he hath brought vs forth a faultie and a vitiouse definition For a supreme gouernour is he that hath the chiefe gouernment of the thing gouerned not in those actions that may any way properly belong to the subiect or thing gouerned as M. Horne saithe but in those actions that belong to the ende whereunto the gouernour tendeth VVhich may well be although he haue not the chiefe gouernment in all the actions of the thing gouerned but in such actions as properly appertaine to him as a subiect to that gouernour Although M. Stapl. arguments hitherto haue shewed some tast of his owne great skill in Logike and what a worthie student of Diuinitie he is him selfe the want of which two he vpbraydeth to the Bishop after his prowde scornefull manner yet in this his couÌ„terblast to the Bishops only reason of a supreme gouernours definition he wil further shew what a passing subtile Logitian déepe Deuine he is But alas the mans ill lucke for while he clerkly laboreth striues to bring M. Feckâ—…ham out of the briers he not only wrappeth him the faster in them but so snarleth entangleth him selfe withall that as one all amased he speaketh he wottes not what And goyng about the Bushe wonderfully to worke when he hath all done he hath not onely left the matter where it was against M. Feckenham but hath made it more playne against him selfe also First he reprehendeth the Bishops definition of a gouernour as faultie but his guiltie conscience was so striken that he durst not or he well wist not how to report the definition as it laie but saith that the Bishop defined A supreme gouernour to be one that ordreth and directeth all actions belonging and appoynted to the subiecte Which the B. said not but M. St. who hath altered hacked and
whiche commeth after also and yet your selfe so flatly belye the Scripture for malice to the byshop in saying suche wordes that the byshop lefte out do followe which neither followe at all and your selfe before confessed they went immediatly before Sée see howe enuie hath blinded this mans sighte Lesse maruell it is that ye sawe not the period for although those wordes whiche ye cite as lefte oute taking a copie of the Priest and the Leuiticall tribe â—…e wordes going before the bishops sentence and he shall haue by him c. yet is there a ful period betweene them which you saw not or would not sée so that those former words are no materiall part of the sentence following cited by the byshop but a material part of the senteÌ„ce going before which the byshop cited not But M. St. citeth falsly threapeth that the bishop did cite it and in citing it lefte out a materiall parte thereof charging the byshop in these wordes after suche order as your owne text appoynteth â–ª saying VVhen he is set vpon the seate of hys kingdome he shal write him out this second law in a booke taking a copie of the Priestes of the Leuiticall tribe VVhich latter wordes ye haue bicause they make directly agaynst you quite lefte out Why M. Stap. he left out bothe the latter middle first wordes and all of this sentence he mentioned it not at all ye doe but threapen kindnesse on him to fasten withall vpon him your chalenge of infidelitie Onely he alleaged the nexte sentence and that expounding it so fully that he leaueth oute neither former latter or any materiall poynte at all thereof .. And thus muche doth your selfe also witnesse agaynst your selfe saying that he lefte oâ—…t vvordes that immediatly goe before the vvordes vvhich he alleadged And what were those he shall haue by him c. This then was the texte that he alleaged by your owne confession And therfore when ye vrge him with the former texte that he alleaged not to proue infidelitie in him ye contrarie your selfe ye cleare him ye shewe your owne excéeding vnfaythfull dealing bothe to the scripture and to him also But wherefore should the Byshop haue left out as ye charge him any materiall parte of his texte bycause say you it maketh directly agaynst him In déede that were a shrewde cause and would iolily cloke M. St. infidelitie and cause men to suspect infidelitie in the bishop if he had concealed any thing in his text that directly made against him Which infidelitie who vseth and who approueth it for the poynt of a wise man to conceale that that maketh agaynst him shal after wel appeare But now although it be plainly proued that the byshop in his text left out no part therof Yet for further tryall of this also let vs take not onely the latter wordes of the next period going before which words he complayneth are lefte out but euery worde also of the same sentence concluding two or thrée periodes vnder one bicause we would haue nothing left out and ioyne them to the sentence following cited by the byshop and then behold what maner of conclusion either directly or indirectly they make agaynst him Wherin shall appeare that M. St. hath so besotted himselfe in diuinitie that he had quite forget the logike that so ofte he crakes vpon These textes are these VVhen he is set on the seate of his kingdome he shall write for him selfe out of this seconde law in a booke taking a copy of the Priests of the Leuiticall tribe And he shall haue it with him and he shall reade of it all the dayes of his life that he may learne to feare the Lorde his God and keepe all the wordes and ceremonies that are written in the lawe Upon these words M. St. frameth his argument The king shal write out this second law in a booke taking a copy of the Priestes of the Leuiticall tribe Ergo a king ought not to take vpon him suche gouernement in ecclesiasticall causes as the Quéenes maiestie doth chalenge and take vpon hir For this is the conclusion that directly maketh agaynst the bishop but as herein his logike is altogither vnskilfull so is his diuinitie yet more vnfaithfull For hauing chalenged the bishop for leauing out these words taking a copie of the priests of the Leuiticall trybe as directly against him and theÌ„ immediately foloweth sayth he how he shall busily reade the sayde booke and so foorth In which words he maketh another toto manifest lie falsifying the text yet once againe For these words Et habebit secâ—… he shal haue with him which word he leaueth quite out go betwéene therfore followe not as he sayth immediatly But sée héere whether it be of malice to the byshop or to the Scripture that all this while in quarelling with this little poore text habebit secum he shall haue with him he findeth fault with translating he accuseth the byshop of infidelitie and vnskilfulnesse he complaineth of leauing out wordes going immediatly before of curtalling the texte and leauing out latter wordes of leauing out a material part of words following immediatly he citeth and reciteth these and those wordes in Latin and Englishe he scanneth and descanteth on translations and all this while those onely three wordes habebit secum which the byshop alleaged wrinching and wresting he euer glaunceth by them he will not once name them but leaueth them quite out which was the materiall thing that the byshop alleaged And yet all the while he whineth of leauing oute and leaueth oute him selfe that he should chiefly answere What shall we thinke is the cause that he dothe thus surely there is some force in those wordes that he sawe were more directly against him or else he would neuer do so for very shame But I remember a tale that he hath patched vp into his counterblast of the Simoniacall Priest that béeing commaunded to say In nomine patris filij spiritus sanctâ—… could rehearse all well inough till he came to spiritus sancti as for that he could not pronounce it in any maner of wise But sée your chance M. Stap. that ye there fabled howe here your selfe haue playde the like part The byshop vrgeth you with thrée wordes habebit secum â–ª ye will not onely answere nothing thereto but ye will not in any wise whyle ye repeate the sentences so muche as name those wordes and yet ye goe rounde about them On the other side those wordes that the bishop cited not as no parte of his sentence alleaged Lorde what a doe ye make of curtalling of leauing out of infidelitie vnskilfulnesse peruersitie malice and I can not tell what Onely bicause ye thinke those wordes séeme to make for your massing Priests authoritie bicause they name Priests and yet God wot they make nothing for you nor agaynst the byshop directly or indirectly But you thinke this sentence maketh thus much for your priestes that if the
Where this place ioyneth togither as colleages the prince with the priest or rather ascribeth the skil in suche doubtes to be defined by the learned and faythfull priest and the full authoritie to giue iudgement and to ratifie the Priestes sentence in condemning the refusers to death and in approuing the receyuers to consist not in the high Priest but in the Iudge or Prince And thus this place that he would so fayne wrest euery way agaynst Christian Princes and for his Pope and popelings béeing well wayed and considered according to his owne request maketh nothing for his matter nor for his shauelings but cleane agaynst them And béeing better wayed and considered maketh nothing against the Bishops cause nor against christian Princes supreme gouernment in ouerséeing correcting such false priests but very muche for their duetie and chiefe authoritie therin M. St. hauing thus shamefully counterblasted the Byshops allegatioÌ„ to set a good face on an euilfauorde matter biddes the byshop go on and crieth out that he hath goâ—…ten the victorie that the bishop is at his first encouÌ„tring ouerblowne and discomfited euen with his owne blast And that it is not likely hereafter that he shall bring any thing to resolue his aduersarie But as God would haue it all these wordes are no blowes nor arguments but vayne triuÌ„phes before he haue gotten the victorie of the which he reckoneth him selfe so sure that he graunteth the Byshops other allegation Deut. 13. For as for the next place sayth he it enforceth no supremacie we freely graunt you that princes may sharply punish teachers of false and superstitious religion and Idolatrie beeing therof by the Priests instructed whiche is the matter of your texte This parenthesis M. St. beeing therof by the priests instructed is the levvde lying glose of your owne forge The text hath no such matter of the priests instruction but what thinke you doth enstruction more enforce an authoritie in the priest than powre to punish correct doth enforce an authoritie in the prince or doth this follow that bicause the prince by the priests enstruction doth punish false teachers Ergo he punisheth theÌ„ by the priests authoritie but as you fréely graunt that the prince may punish noughtie false and idolatrous priests so that the priests instructioÌ„ is any matter of the byshops text or that his instruction should more enforce authoritie ouer the prince than the princes punishment doth ouer false teachers is both euident false this we as flatly deny as you do fréely graunt the other Howbeit presupposing that we would also grauÌ„t him this that all things must still be done by the priests instruction But then sayth master Stap. take heede to your selfe master Horne and as though he him selfe were this instructour for I say to you sayth he that ye and your fellowes teache false and superstitious religion many and detestable heresies and so withall playne idolatrie In déede sir so ye say that full stoutly braying out with I say to you but thanks be to God ye do but say it to vs ye do not proue it to vs but and it were put to a double post might it not proue a worde of course and then take heede to your selfe master Stapl. for we not onely say to you but by the worde of God proue it to you that you and your felowes teach false and superstitious religion many and detestable heresies so withal plaine idolatrie c. and so haue ye giuen sentence agaynst your selfe haue told the magistrate his office to punishe you as false teachers that care not how ye falsifie wrest the scriptures to deface your aduersarie the vnskilfulnesse and vnfaythfulnesse wherwith ye falsly charge him euer double or treble redounding vppon your selfe The residue of your proces on these two chalenges of vnskilfulnesse vnfaythfulnesse I referre to your common places of rayling scoffes and slaunders and will answere to the thirde great faulte that ye finde in this diuision Nowe that ye bring out of Glossa ordinaria say you that the Prince is commanded by his princely authoritie to cause his subiectes to become Israelites it may perhaps be in some ordinarie glose of Geneua his notes Bales or some such like but as for the olde ordinary Latin glose I am right sure M. Horne it hath no suche thing Are ye right sure therof M. Stap and hath it no suche thing in déede will ye venter your poore honestie thereon I dare say ye would haue vs thinke that ye haue looked on the ordinarie glose whether any suche thing were there or no else would ye neuer for shame so boldly affirme it But what speake I of shame in so shamelesse a face that boldly dare auouche he is right sure there is no suche thing when if he had looked in the ordinary glose except he would of purpose looke from it he could scantly misse it euen at the first viewe The wordes of the glose vpon super Israel are these Benedictio est regnare super Israel 1. regnando facere Israel s. deum videntes It is a blessing to raigne ouer Israell that is to saye by raigning which the Byshop Englished by his Princely authoritie to make or cause to become Israelites that is to wete folkes seeing God. The Bishop Englished the sentence playnly by his Princely authoritie to cause his subiectes to become Israelites And what is here that is not onely in summe of sentence but in the very emphasis or force of the bare wordes all one with the glose and yet this moste impudent what should I call him vnskilfull or vnfaythfull lyer or both chalengeth the Bishop of vntruth and sayth he is right sure there is no such thing In what thing wil this man stick to outface the simple vnlearned that dare thus deale with such a lerned father and coÌ„mit it to print to be examined of any lerned reader and crake of such assurance as though he had poared ouer al the booke for it euen at the first chop he is found an open lyer But I doubt whether euer he looked on the booke at all but trusted some retchelesse superuisor For if he had looked but ouer the head of the verie texte Ut longo tempore regnet That he might long time reigne hée shoulde haue founde noted on this worde Regnet corporaliter spiritualiter That hee shoulde reigne or exercise his Princely authoritie a long tyme Bodily and spiritually not onely to haue a regiment in lay temporall and ciuile matters as M. St. affirmeth but euen in spirituall matters also And had he but looked a little higher on these wordes Legetque illud omnibus diebus vitae suâ—… He should read it all the days of his life He should haue found Vsus reddit magistrum the vse of reading the worde of God makes the king a maister in Gods worde that is to say a setter forth or teacher thereof as it were Upon whiche the
ordinarie Glose sayth Nota quanâ—… assidâ—…itate legere debent Sacerdotes câ—… assidue legant reges Lectio ipsa est lux vitâ—… vnde verba qua ego loquor spiritus vita sunt Note with howe muche continuaunce the Priestes ought to reade the worde of God when Kings should reade it continually The reading is it selfe the lyghte and the life whereuppon sayth Christe the words which I speake are spirite and life Here M. Stapleton the lyfe lyes not as you sayde right nowe in the Priests exposition but in the word it selfe and the continuall reading thereof wherein not onely the Priest but the Prince is a kynde of Maister But are ye not right sure none of this is there neyther ye were best to say so for I perceyue ye haue an excellente grace to face downe a matter bée it neuer so playne and open Let vs nowe come to the fourthe and laste fault that he gathereth against the Bishop in this diuision whiche is also an vntruth as he saith in his margin the place of the Deuteronomie flady belied and adding this vnto the other before he saith This therfore may wel stand for an other vntruth as also that which immediatly you alleage out of Deu. 13. for in al that chapter or in any other of that booke there is no such worde to be founde as you talke of Uerily I beléeue our student M. St. had for studied himself in a lasie slumber and wrote this nodding half a sléepe for ful awake for pure shame he would neuer haue suffred such lewd lyes to scape his pen come in dropping thus one in an others necke as though he were at a poynte he cared not what he sayd neither against the playne truth nor against himselfe much lesse against the bishop Euery worde that the B. rehearseth in the last end of this diuision is fâ—…uÌ„d plainly exprest in the xiij and â–ª 17. of Deut. which chapters the Bishop quoted The wordes of punishing teachers of falâ—…e and superstitious religion and idolatrie in the former side of the leaf he grauÌ„teth himself to be in Deut. the. 13. Notwithstanding he forgetteth straight wayes what he sayd affirmeth on the other side of the leaf that there is no such word to be found But as he trippeth on the truth in the first side so on the other side of the same leaf he flatly falleth into a flat lye in both he tumbleth into a foule contradiction Moreouer in both sides he graunteth that by the. 13. of the Deut. The prince by his authoritie may punish teachers of falâ—…e religion superstition and idolatrie And may he do it withoute examining whether the doctrine wherewith the teacher is charged be true or false and being false whether he taught it or no Suche may be the order in the Popes consistorie but in Gods Courtes it is farre otherwise For God commaundeth Deut. 17. as the Bishop auouched the Prince when any is denounced vnto him to haue taught any false religion that he make diligent examination Quia noâ—… est procedendum ad sententiam sayth Lyra vpon these wordes fine diligeÌ„ti examinatione praeuia bicause he must not procede to giue sentence without diligent examination had before And this beeing found by the Princes diligent examination that he hath taughte false religion he shall be put to deathe The Bishoppes woordes comprehende all this The laste wordes also of the Bishops diuision to wete Et aufâ—…res malum de medio tui And thou shalt take away euil from among thee Are they not plainly set foorth in both those chapters So that a man might wonder that knewe not well Master Stapletons impudencie seeing that all the poyntes that the Bishoppe speaketh of in the later parte of this Diuision in the places of the Deuter â–ª aboue mencioned are so manifestly expressed with what face M. Stapleton can so boldly affirme that in al the â–ª 13. chapter or any other of that boke ther is no such word to be found as the bishop talketh of And thus with more than a full messe of notorious vntruthes to returne your owne conclusion M. Stapl. moste worthyly vpon your selfe ye haue furnished the firste seruice brought yet to the table concerning the principal matter howbeit perhappes though this be verie course yet you haue fine dishes and dayntie cates comming after Lette vs then proceede And as he sayth in the entrance of this diuision Go on I say in Gods name M. St. and prosecute your plea stoutely God send ye good speede and so he doth euen such as you and the honestie of your cause deserue and at the first entrie of your plea causeth you and your clerkly and honest dealing forthwith to your high commendation so to appeare that euen the firste authoritie that ye handle of all the holy Scripture playnly discouereth you and causeth you to be espied and openeth as well your fidelitie as the weakenes of youre whole cause the which euen with youre owne firste Counter blast is quite ouerblowen So fitly M. St. al these your owne words do serue against your selfe Diuision 11. IN this diuision the Byshop bringeth for his purpose two things first he alleageth generally that the beste and moste godly princes that euer gouerned Gods people did perceiue and rightly vnderstand that to be Gods will that they haue an especiall regarde and care for the ordering and setting foorth of Gods true Religion and therefore vsed great diligence with feruent zeale to performe and accomplishe the same Secondly for proofe héereof he entreth into his ensamples of the olde Testament beginning with Moyses that he was not the chiefe Priest or Byshop but the supreme gouernour or Prince and as chiefe gouernoure had the ordering of religion whiche he dutifully executed with great zeale and care To the former parte and generall assertion of the Bishop M. Stapleton only answereth by a marginall note saying Regarde and chiefe rule care and supreme gouernement are two diuers things â–ª Nowe forsoothe a solemne studied answere of a student in diuinitie he is a silly wise man that vnderstoode not thus muche before without this marginal note Too simple were he in déed that séeth they be not al one as he hath simply set them out But he that complained so late of curtalling and leauing out a materiall parte of the sentence whiche dooing he calleth vnfaithfulnesse sée howe vnfaithfully he hoffeth and curtalleth the Bishoppes sentence The Bishop spake not of simple care and reregarde but of an especiall care and regarde for the ordering setting foorth of Gods true religion With which assertion M. Stap. findeth no fault neither â—…y any worde goeth about to improue it and so sheweth himselfe to agrée therewith and by silence to confesse the truth thereof Now therefore let vs resolue the Bishops assertion and then consider thereon The Bishops assertion hath these thrée partes First that godly Princes ought to order and set forth Gods true
of ciuill iustice neither for he is therein also a minister and executor of Gods sentence that by his Propheâ—…es commaundeth the Prince to minister and execute iustice And by this rule howe coulde 〈◊〉 prooue this superioritie to bée iâ—… youre Pope eyther would ye make him haue such a claime that he should not be Gods minister and executer of Gods sentences or would ye not rather reason contrary He is in all spirituall causes the minister and executer of Gods sentences published by his Prophets Ergo he is the supreme gouernour vnder God in all spirituall causes If ye had any sentence of God to proue this antecedent I warrant ye then ye would reason on this wise Yea you do reason on this wise though ye haue no sentence of God at all therefore As for vs we haue as by your owne testimonie the worde of God to warrant that the Prince in deposing the hiest Priest and figure of your Pope as ye say hath so good warrant of authoritie therefore that euen hee was Gods minister therein and executer of Gods sentence which plainly argueth his supreme authoritie next and immediately vnder god To be a minister and executer on that fashion next and immediately vnder God is no argument to abase the princes authoritie If ye had proued he had béene the priestes vnderling minister and executour herein this had béene somewhat to your purpose But this ye could not proue and ye sayd the contrary before that the priest was the princes minister and executour and that he deposed Abiathar not by himselfe but as he sacrificed by causing another to minister and execute for him Nowe when ye say the Prince is Gods minister and executer the priest is the princes minister and executer doe not your self I pray you acknowledge in the ministerie and the execution the priest to be vnder the prince and that the prince is not onely Gods minister and executer but as ye say further the causer commaunder and procurer also therof to the priestes Is this the ouerthrowing of the Bishop as your margin maketh boast or is it not rather the ouerthrowing of your selfe can ye speake any thing more plaine for the Bishop and agaynst your cause than this and yet ye crie eut that the Bishop omitted and dissembled â—…his guilefully craftily verily M. Stap â–ª there was no cause ye see why he should so do the craft and guile is but your owne the Bishop as he did in all the other doings onely touched them per transâ—…nnam not describing any one of the circumstances but in a worde or two shewed the fact and so passed ouer to other factes of Salomon But whatsoeuer the Bishop tolde or left vntolde it had béene better for you as ye haue vsed guylefully and craftily many other poyntes to haue omitted and dissembled this if ye haue no better shift than this that not onely maketh nothing agaynst the Bishoppes assertion in Salomons supreme gouernment but still more and more euen by the mouth of God by his Prophets doth confirme the same Nowe that none of all 〈◊〉 shifts will hitherto sâ—…rue against this one ensample of Salomon yet hath M. St onâ—… shift more behinde and that a trimme shift to Besides sayth he that the deposing of Abiathar doeth not employ that Salomon was the chiefe ruler in all causes ecclesiasticall whiche is the Butte that ye must shoote at and then must ye prouide another bowe for this will not shoote home This is one of your olde sâ—…ale shiftes M. Stap. I sée you are nowe euen at the last cast to let the arrowe alone and quarrell about the bow and the butte but and ye would as ye gaue good counsell to others haue followed it your selfe in firing still your eye on the issue betwéene the parties in controuersie neyther would yemake so many vagaryes as ye do nor here haue quarelled at the Bishopâ—… short shooting The wordes of the issue whiche is the butte that M. Feck requireth the Bishop to shoote vnto if ye be remembred are these to make proofe vnto me that any Emperour or Empresse King or Queene may claime or take vppon them any such gouernment in spirituall or ecclesiasticall causes meaning as doth the Quéene if the Bishop proue this then he hittes the Butte His artillerie the Bow and Arrowes that he must shoote withall at thys Butte are appoynted by him likewise the Scriptures the doctors the Counsels and the practise the testimonies allegations decrées and examples therein conteyned The Bishop hitherto hath with many arrowes out of the Scripture hit the Butte so full that as yet ye coulde not make this quarrell but sought other peltyng shiftes Nowe séeing that none of all those paltrie brablings will serue ye say hée shootes not home and must chaunge his Bowe His Bowe here is the Scripture his Arrowes here are the ensamples of Salomon of which the Bishop shotte a good many seuerall Arrowes and factes and euery one hitte the Butte He alleaged not onely the facte of Abiathars deposition but also of Sadockes placing of consecrating the Temple of sacrificing of placing the Arke therein of blessing the people of directing the Priests Leuites and other Churche officers and of their obedience to all his commaundements Of all these allegations you your selfe master Stapleton choose one to answere vnto whiche is the deposition of the highe Priest and say all the obiection dependes thereon And so guylefully omitting the residue stande onely a measuring thys shotte and in the ende after muche warbling crie out shorte shorte ye muste prouide another Bowe for thys wyll not shoote home The deposing of Abiathar doeth not employe that Salomon was the chiefe Ruler in all ecclesiasticall causes First what if it doth not M. Stapleton one fact of Salomon employes not all ecclesiasticall causes Go to doth it employ some ecclesiasticall causes to be in the chiefe rule of the Prince If ye graunt me this ye graunt the issue and this is the ende ye graunt But ye say it employes not all ecclesiasticall causes â–ª and therefore is short â–ª Did the Bishop againe shoote no more but that one how chaunce ye medled not in measuring of the other Did ye foresee that as this had hitte one cause another woulde hitte another and so at the least euery one one cause yea perchaunce euery one 〈◊〉 and so a number of your causes might be hitte and perchaunce all causes by some one shot not yet measured and therefore guylefully and crastily disâ—…embling and omiâ—…ting them you let all the rest alone Yet should ye not then for shame haue thus cryed out agaynst this one first shotte since if it were shorte though short shooting léese the game yet one shorte shotte leaseth it not And if one bee shorte manye other maye come home and wynne the game for all this especially matching with one that shooteth so faire and Gentlemanlyke as you doe Maister Stapleton that it were better to stande at
in his owne person throughout al his couÌ„trey What fault find ye herewith that he called it a progresse call you it an egresse or by what ye can finde a more vsuall or â—…itter name where the prince him selfe doth trauell The text is 〈◊〉 egressus est ad populuÌ„ and again he went foorth vnto the people Stande ye on that he said it was in his owne person In déede Lyra saith per sacerdotes Leuit as sicuâ—… ante ficaraâ—… He went foorth by the Priests Leuites as he had done before But the text séemeth coÌ„trary that he traueled him selfe Wheron Uatablus noteth vt ambularet per populuÌ„ fortasse queÌ„ offenderat â—…alo exeÌ„plâ—… vel per populuÌ„ cut praeâ—…rat quasi dicat peâ—…agrauit regioneÌ„ sibi subditam That he might trauel by the people whoÌ„ perhaps he had offended by his euill exaÌ„ple for personally he went out with them to Achabs warres or by the people whoÌ„ he ruled as though he should say he trauelled all ouer the realme that was subiect to him Are ye offended that he sayth throughout al his countrey The text is playne De Bersabe vsque ad monteÌ„ Ephraim from Beersabee euen to the mount Ephraim Id est sayth Lyra à principio regni sui vsque ad finem that is from the beginning of his kingdome euen to the end therof Of which progresse in the note before sayth Lyra Hie consequenter ponitur ipsius Iosaphat emeÌ„datio in se populo primo in cultu diuino Here consequently is set foorth the amendment of Iosaphat in him selfe and in the people and first in the worship of God. In none of these words hitherto there is any indignitie nothing to be detested or any ridiculous tale to be laughed at but euery word is agreable to the most graue holy and infallible worde of God. If there were therfore any such leuitie detestablenesse in the bishops termes it is only in this that he likened those parties to iustices of the peace But this name I am sure is neither to be detested nor laughed at except you be some od wicked Lucian or Timon â—…all godly christians can allowe this name with reuerence Is the ridiculcusnesse detestablenesse in saying the one might resemble the other reade the text Constituitque Iudices terrae in cunctis ciuitatibus Iuda munitis per singula loca and he appointed Iudges of the land in all the walled cities of Iuda through all places Now could a man expresse this by a liuelyer example than to say those petit iudges were as it were Iustices of the peace if you can shewe a more apter estate to expresse them by do it on Gods name I dare say for the Byshop he will giue you good leaue though ye somewhat missed the quishion make no such haynous matter therat Lyra sayth Hic secundo describitur ipsius Iosaphat populi melioratio in regimine populi primo in communibus causis secundo in arduis in quibus erat recursus in Hierusalem Circa primum dicitur constituitque Iudices vt non oporteat populum discurrere à loca ad locum ad habendum in causis communibus Heere secondly is described the bettering of Iosaphat him selfe and his people in the gouernance of the people first in common causes secondly in difficulte causes wherein the recourse was vnto Hierusalem Concerning the firste it is sayde and he appoynted Iudges to be had in the common matters that the people shoulde not runne vp and downe from place to place And is not this exposition of Lyra so agreable to the Byshops that it conteyneth euen the same what cause then had ye héere Master Stapl. to make this haynous exclamation Were not this youre dealing rather ridiculous and to be laughed at sauyng that the indignitie of your enuious demeanour is more to be detested But nowe in the matter of all this what is héere that directly inferreth not Iosaphats supreme gouernement not onely ouer the nobles and the people but ouer the Priests Leuites preachers al the clergy in directing and setting foorth the word worship of God that not only in coÌ„moÌ„ matters but eueÌ„ for those matters also of the priests senteÌ„ce at Ierusalem for the which hitherto ye haue made so muche ado but all this M. Stap. though he saw it plaine inough yet he thought best not to meddle therwith But rather least the reader shoulde marke it also to finde him play about the printing of words and phrases and here at to hallow and make suche outcries as though all the matter lay therein Yea he bursteth out into such a vehemencie of his spirite that not contente with his former haynous quarels he layeth yet greater to the Byshops charge saying But from fonde counterfayting he proceedeth to flat lying for where he sayth that Iosaphat commanded and prescribed vnto the chiefe Priests what fourme and order they should obserue in the ecclesiasticall causes and controuersies of religion c. This is a lewde and a horrible lye flatly belying Gods holy worde the which in one that goeth for a Byshop what can be done more abhominable In déede M. Stapl. it were an abhominable thing to belye Gods holy worde were it in any man chiefly in a Byshop but this abhomination besides many worsse not only lewdly flatly horribly to belie but to deface blaspheme yea to take away and burne Gods holy worde are the right properties of your Popish Bishops not of ours But what hath the Bishop nowe héere saide that belyeth and accordeth not with the holy scripture for the wordes which you your selfe set foorth do they not playnly comprehende a fourme and order which they should obserue in ecclesiasticall matters and controuersies of religion Sic agetis c. Thus shall ye do in the feare of the Lorde faythfully and with a perfect heart And as your selfe expound it They should do their duetie faythfully and perfectly as they had done before in the dayes of Asa and Abias Lo do not your owne selfe héere confesse a maner and fourme of order which be prescribed them to do those things by Agayne are not these your owne words howe Iosaphat appoynted the Leuites and priestes to these ecclesiasticall functions it shal appeare in the next Chapter by the example of Ezechias Where ye say howe he did it had that how no maner or fourme of order in it Yes but ye say that maner of fourme shall appeare in the example of Ezechias A Gods name so let it doe in the meane season ye graunt he did it after the fourme of order that Ezechias dyd it And there ye say that Ezechias did it as Dauid did it But ye wotte well the Scripture sheweth at large the fourmes and orders of Dauids appoyntments if therefore Ezechias did it like to Dauid and Iosaphat like to Ezechias then is the bishops saying proued true by all these your confessions that he
commaunded and prescribed vnto the chiefe priests what fourme and order they should obserue in ecclesiasticall causes and controuersies of religion Is not this then your own abhomination and contradiction â—…atly to say here is no fourme or order prescribed and that the Bishop belieth Gods holy woorde which in one that goeth for a student of Diuinitie to sclaunder one that goeth for a Bishop what can be done more malapertly But as ye thus sawfely misuse your better so full fondly and malitionsly do yâ—… gather that thereon then the which the Bishop minded nothing lesse nor can instly be gathered thereupon Yâ—… say the Bishop writeth thus to make folke weene that religion proceded then by way of commission from the Prince onely This is your owne spitefull sclander M. Stapl. not onely on the Bishop but on the Quéenes Maiestie your argument is this He prescribed them a fourme and order to obserue in coÌ„trouersies of Religion Ergo He attempted to make Religion proceede by way of commission from the Prince onely This is a false and maâ—…itions collection M. Stapl. from the fourme and order of athing to the thing it selfe It is your holy father the Pope to whom ye may obiect this conclusion he maâ—…eth religion to depende on him and to proceede from him onely â–ª by his Commissions and Legacies â—… latere We-acknowledge all true religion to procéede onely from God the father through Iesus Christ his sonne by the insâ—…ctioÌ„ of the holy ghost in the mouth of the Patriarches Prophets and Apostles And from the Prince to procéede onely such godly orders and formes of directing and setting foorth that true religion as he by the notable examples of these godly Kinges shall finde out paterns most expedient for him and his people to gouerne and order them of what â—…state soeuer they be in that true religion and all other ecclesiastical causes belonging thereto So did Iosaphat then so doth the Quéenes Maiestie now FroÌ„ whose authoritie next â—…nder â–ª God the order direction procéeded though the religioÌ„ procéeded not from them but altogither from God. Nay say you king â–ª Iosaphats dealings were rather with 〈◊〉 persoâ—… thâ—…n with matters ecclesiasticall This was M. FeckeÌ„hams former shifte and many proper ensamples and similitudes you also vsed thereon to dally about the 〈◊〉 of the ecclesiasticall person but not in ecclesiastical matters But those were but séely shifts and euer turned against your selfe in the ende And therefore ye darâ—… not abide by this shifte but within a litle while after yea euen in this Chapter ye recant and denie the obedience of the persons and all And what hath bene your practise any other than cleane to ridde your selues out of al obedience from the Princes authoritie ye knowe your Pope hath bene vnder the Emperour ere now but vnder what Princes obedience euen for his person will ye confesse your Pope at this day to be And do not all the packe of the popishe Priestes as his chickens clâ—…cke vnder his winges and exempt euen their persons also from the dutifull obedience they owe to their naturall soueraignes in so much that where the Popes primacie is admitted Princes can not by any of their laweâ—… â–ª fasten any condigne punishement vppon any ecclesiasticall persons â–ª what mischiefe soeuer they committe and all bicause the ecclesiasticall persons were priuileged and exempted from their Princes authoritie Wherein your generation dealt surely for themselues that hauing graunted them an inche got an elle For seing that if they should graunt againe the obedience of the person the cause and all would at last returne to his old master the Prince as it did before but you thinke your selfe sure inough if ye graunt that Iosaphat dealed with ecclesiasticall persons but not with their matters As ye shifted of the matter before that the Prince dealeth with a Bishop for his homage baronie and temporalties but not otherwise Thinke ye M. Stapl. and tell me on your fidelitie did Iosaphat meddle with the high Priestes and all other of the Clergie so well as his temporaltie onely in respecte of their persons or in respecte of their reuenues and linings vnder him or chiefly in any of these respectes did he thus commaunde them and deale with them or not rather and most of all in respect of refourming abuses in religion and setting in order all ecclesiasticall causes he appointed not onely the persons but the places where the persons shoulde execute their offices and what matters these and those persons shoulde entreate vppon and how they shoulde do them as your selfe haue confessed the manner And least we should thinke he â—…ubbered ouer the matter as ye say many good and godly princes among the Christians also haue charged their Bishops and clergie to see diligently vnto their flockes and charges Ye say true M. Stapleton many godly Princes haue thus done to your further confutation in this issue But you meane they haue onely giuen them a generall exhortation and yet neuerthelesse lefte the matter wholly in their Clergies hands not medling themselues therewith Least ye should thinke that Iosaphat did it thus sclenderly not that his chiefe charge of ouersight lay thereon not onely of them all generally but particulerly in euery kinde of matter the holy ghost hath penned out how precisely he went to worke that rather hauing his care about the matters then the persons For this was his principal marke care not so much that the person might sit in authoritie as that the matter might wisely and truly be iudged and discerned and therfore saith the text In Hierusalem quoque constituit Iosaphat Leuitas sacerdotes principes familiaruÌ„ ex Israel vt iudicium causam domini Iudicarent habitatoribus eius c. Praecepitque eis c. And Iosaphat appointed in Ierusalem Leuites and Priests and families of Israell that they might giue iudgement and iudge the cause of the Lorde to the inhabitants thereof c. And he coÌ„maunded them saying Thus shall ye do in the feare of the Lord faithfully and with a perfecte harte and in euery cause that shall come vnto you of your brethren that dwell in their Cities betweene bloud and bloud betweene lawe and precepte statutes and iudgements ye shall iudge them and admonish them c. Whervpon saith Lyra Hic ordinatur regimeâ—â— populi in arduis causis c. Here is ordeyned the gouernment of the people in difficult causes which could not well be cutte of without recourse had to Ierusalem according to that which is coÌ„maunded Deuter. 17. Where it is saide if thou shalt perceyue the iudgement before thee to be difficult and doubtfull arise and get thee vp to the place which the Lord shall choose c. And therefore Iosaphat appointed iudges there to determine such difficult matters Wherefore it followeth euery cause which commeth vnto you c. VVheresoeuer the question is if it be of the lawe so
contrarie Thus saith the king the priest and the Bishop shal haue the gouernment of such things as appertaine to God. Ergo the Prince that thus appointeth him thereto hath an other supreme gouernment of appointing and ouerseing euen the priests gouernment Doth not the King appoint the one to his office so well as he appointed the other are not both gouerned in their offices vnder him Yet say you ouer gods matters is the priest not as the kings commissioner but as the priests were after the example of Moses The Bishop refuseth not the example of Moses but alleaged euen the same and your selfe then refused that example saying he had such prerogatiues that he of all other could not be alleaged for exaÌ„ple bicause of his especial priuilege And now contrary to your former sayings you say the priests were not as the Kings coÌ„missioners but were alwaies after the example of Moses But go to be it so how doth this helpe your matter or not rather quite confute it In Moses time Aaron and after him Eleazar were the chiefe priestes ouer gods matters vnder whome were the other Priestes and Leuites But all of them yea Aaron and Eleazar so wel as the rest were vnder the supreme gouernement in ecclesiasticall causes so well as temporall of their Prince and ruler Moses Ergo If Moses be an example how the priestes should alwayes gouerne vnder Gods matters then muste their gouernment be alwayes vnder the princes supreme gouernment to ouersée order and direct them as Moses did And where ye say the Priest here was not the Princes commissioner in these matters the very text is most playn to the contrarie I stande not on the worde least I should minister to you occasion of wrangling with me as ye do with the byshop but goe to the matter What call ye him that the Prince sendeth foorth in a commission committing a charge vnto him call ye him not a commissioner and his commissioner that so sendeth him in commission did not Iosaphat so sende about his priestes and Leuites on this commission that they shoulde teache and set foorth euery where the worde of God Tertio annâ—… regni sui misit c. in the thirde yere of his raigne he sent out certayne of hys princes Benail and Obdias and Zacharias and Nathaniel and Micheas that they should teache in the cities of Iuda and with them the Leuites Semeiah Nethamah Zebediah and Asahel and Semiramoth and Ionathas and Adonias and Thobias and Tob Adoniah Leuites and with them Elizama and Ioram Priests And they taught the people in Iuda hauing with them the booke of the lawe of the Lord and they went about throughout all the cities of Iuda and taught the people Were they not héere sent in this commission thus to do froÌ„ the king Their doctrine was not the kings but Gods commission the Lords booke but this their maner of traueling in setting it foorth was the kings commission And they so wel the Priests and Leuites as the Princes were bothe of them the kings commissioners In lyke case the Quéenes maiesty sendeth out hir godly learned commissioners sendeth by them the worde of God Gods booke and truthe to be set foorth The truth thus set foorth hath not his authoritie from hir coÌ„mission nor the preachers to preach only by hir outward commission but they haue another inward coÌ„mission from God and are Gods commissioners by the calling ministerie of their office Howbeit in this outward maner of visitation setting it foorth in this sorte of traueling about hir highnesse townes and cities reforming abuses directing all eccl. causes they are therin euen aswell the Quéenes coÌ„missioners as those priests Leuites in al their reformatioÌ„ of religion were coÌ„missioners from king Iosaphat And thus euery thing in the ende is moste euident agaynst you But yet ye blunder still on in your owne conceite and thinke ye haue héere gotten a wonderfull strong argument And marke well M. Horne this poynt say you Zabadias is set ouer suche workes as belong to the kinges office But suche workes are no maner thing perteyning to the seruice of God for ouer them Amarias the Priest is President Ergo the kinges office consisteth not about thinges perteyning to God but is a distinct function concerning the common weale Ergo if the king intermeddle in Gods matters especially if he take vpon him the supreme gouernement thereof euen ouer the priests theÌ„ selues to whom the charge is committed he passeth the bouÌ„des of his office he breaketh the order appoynted by God and is become an open enemie to Gods holy ordinance Your crakes and reuilings that ye powder your argument with I remitte to their proper common places to the argument I aunswere If it be marked well as ye would haue it saying Marke well this poynte M. Horne First the marker shall finde it neither in any moode nor figure Secondly the marker shall finde an Equiuocation in these words workes kinges office pertayning to Gods seruice Which words béeing diuerfly vnderstoode in either proposition Thirdly make a paralogisme of foure termes Fourthly in these words ye make a Fallation a secundum quid ad simpliciter Lyra liuiteth theâ—…e words super ea operaerit quae ad regis officium pertinent He shall be ouer those workes that perteyne to the kings office onely to the ayding and strengthening the Priests and the Leuites by the temporall sworde to punishe the disobediente But is there no other works of the Kings office besides this Uatablus vnder standeth it that as the priest medled with the weightie causes at Ierusalem so also the Leuites shoulde be ouer the lesser causes Causae CiutuÌ„ cognoscebontur à Leuitis causaeauteÌ„ Regtae à Zabaudiâ—… The causes or controuersies perteyning to the citizens should be herd of the Leuites and the causes and controuersies perteyning to the King should be herd of Zabaudias Neither of these vnderstande these words so generally of al the doings belonging in any wise to the office of a king In lyke case for the priestes gouernment in suche thinges as belong to God Id est sayth Uatablus quod pertinet ad rem diuinam To wite so farre as perteyneth to the diuine seruice or the dyuine administration And you wrest it to be vnderstoode simply for all ecclesiasticall matters and all causes of religion Besides that Fifthly ye reason styll after youre wonted fashion from the distinction of the thynges and vvorkes of eithers perticuler functions to the taking away of the Princes supreme gouernement ouer those distincte workes and functions Howe dothe this argument followe The king appoyntes one ouer Gods workes and another distinct from him ouer his owne workes Ergo the king hath not a supreme gouernement ouer them both to ouersée theÌ„ to do those works Your conclusions therfore last of all are faultie neither directly following vpon your premisses and comprehending much more then they inferre This part of your conclusion that
the kings office is a distinct function from the Priests neither impugneth the byshops assertion nor the princes supreme gouernement Conclude this M. Stap. agaynst them that confounde their offices The other parte of your conclusion that the kinges office medleth onely with the common weale by which ye meane onely the ciuill policie and hath nothing to do with any matters perteyning to God or euer ye shall directly proue it on this or any other place in the whole scripture it will finde ye somewhat more to do than ye suppose it will. As for the kinges intermedling with Gods matters your selfe before haue graunted a king may intermedle and be no breaker nor enimie to Gods order And that euen this king Iosaphat vsed a care and diligence about the directing of ecclesiasticall matters that he reformed religion and that godly christian Princes may at this day do the lyke This your selfe haue already graunted And is all this no intermedling dothe it not rather proue he intermedled that as supreme gouernour thereof yea euen ouer the Priestes them selues to whome that charge of doing those matters is committed and yet he neither breaketh the order appoynted by God nor is become an enimie to Gods holy ordinance Ye say it was Gods ordinance and appoyntment what followeth it was not therefore the Princes ordinance and appoyntment also as though these were contrary and coulde not stande togither the one vnder the other the ordinance of God and the ordinance of the king Put case the Priest had ordeined it might it not haue béene Gods ordinance too but the priest ordeined it not but the prince Ergo the Prince immediatly ordeyning it vnder God sheweth that he hath an immediate power vnder him euen aboue the Priests Of whome are these words so precisely spoken he appoynted he commaunded he sayde it shall be so thus shall ye do c was it the Prince or was it the Priest Did Amarias commaunde Iehosaphat or Iehosaphat commaunde Amarias and all the other Priestes and Leuites who is the supreme gouernour of the twaine the commaunder and appointer or he that is commaunded and appoynted Untill therefore that ye can proue that the high Priest Amarias commaunded and appoynted vnto King Iosaphat these things and that the king did not commaund nor appoynt these things to the Priest and Bishop euerie man that hath any vnderstanding will easily perceyue and iudge that the Prince was the Priestes supreme gouernour next vnder God both ouer his person and ouer the thing also wherein he appoynted and commaunded him But sée your constant dealing in this matter â–ª before you made the gouernance of the thing to be more than the gouernance of the person And here as though it were a greater matter to gouerne the person you say If he take vpon him the supreme gouernment thereof euen ouer the Priests themselues to whom the charge is committed Againe before you sayde that Iosaphats dealings were rather with persons than with matters ecclesiasticall But now ye exempt the persons to saying If he take vpon him the supreme gouernment euen ouer the Priests themselues c. he passeth the boundes of his office And thus although for a while ye would shift off the matter by séeming to graunt somwhat to bleare the reader withall yet in the ende contrary to your former graunt ye eaâ—…e your worde and debarre the Prince of all both for matter and persons to But thankes be to God this insample of Iosaphat is so plaine that all these fetches and shiftes that ye are dryuen vnto can so little any way improue his supreme gouernment that euery thing which ye bring agaynst it maketh more and more for it Such is the force of the truth and so doth falsehoode in his owne trippe still ouerturne it selfe The. 16. Diuision THe Bishop alleaging the example of king Ezechias fiâ—…st sheweth what great commendation for his godly gouernment in reforming religion the scripture attributeth vnto him Secondly how he called togither the clergie telleth them their faults declareth to them the wrath of God exhorteth commaundeth them to do their dueties in clensing themselues in making their sacrifices and appointeth their offices prouideth them conuenient portions to liue by and that in all things the clergie and the people obeyed the Kings commaundement which argueth his supreme gouernment ouer all ecclesiasticall persons and causes To this master Stapleton aunswereth first on the olde warrant of his good masters wordes by reiecting all this as insufficient Here is nothing brought in by you sayth he or before by the Apologie as M. Dorman and M. D. Harding do well aunswere that forceth the surmised soueraigntie in King Ezechias but that his power and authoritie was readie and seruiceable as it ought to be in all prynces for the execution of things spirituall before determined not by him as supreme head newly established How well or yll master Stap. your masters haue aunswered this obiection and are aunswered againe is apparant and easie to be iudged by viewing both their answeres Howbeit vnto their wel doings for feare they should not fal out so well as ye pretend you haue done well also to better their answeres with the surplusage of your new stuffe And if it were graunted you M. Stap. that those things which Ezechias did had not bene by him as supreme heade newly established would it folow therevpon that they were not by him as supreme head or gouernour newly reformed neyther hauing bene some of them of olde established before by the priests negligence hauing long time bene corrupted But what letteth why they may not also be sayde to haue bene by him newly established being quite decayed before And so sayth Lyra of the ioy at the great passeouer that long time had ceassed Propter quod quado Ezechias eam renouaeuit fuit maior exultatio quòd noua placent delectant For the which cause wheÌ„ Ezechias renued it there was greater reioising for bicause new things do please and delight So that to them it was a newe establishing But was the brasen serpent pulled downe and destroyed euer before as other Images and hill aulters had béene was the feast of the passeouer euer chaunged before was that order of collations euer ordeyned before was this the Leuites doings of the Priests partes euer done before So that at the least some of these doings were by him newly established and neuer done before but as the necessitie of the time was then so were they commaunded to be done by him and well allowed of God. Yet say you they were not newly established by him as supreme hed but his power authoritâ—…e was ready seruiceable for the execution of things spiritual before determined But if these things were not before determined I pray you master Stapleton whose executioner was he then neither the priests nor the prophets had before determined that he should do or commaund to be done these things
and therfore good reason that yours giue place to his senior the popish later base born religion of your Romish church to thâ—… first most auncient true religion of that Alpha Omega Iesus Christ himself Master Stap. hauing now set vp these two false markes like to one being out of his way that after he is once ouer his shooes in the myre careth not howe he benâ—…yre himselfe but running deeper through thicke and thinne cryeth this is the way to haue other to followe him so rusheth on master Stapleton still further from the issue and yet taketh euerye thing in his way to bée hys marke and directorie Setting vp the perticuler factes of those Princes that chalenge and take vppon them this supreme gouernement that the selfe same factes must be founde in the ensamples of the olde testament or else hée sayth the Bishop strayeth from the marke VVhat euidence haue ye brought forth sayth he to shew that in the olde lawe anye King exacted of the Clergie In verbo Sacerdotiâ—… that they shoulde make none Ecclesiasticall lawe without his consent as King Henrie did of the clergie of Englande Is this the marke master Stap. betwene the Bishop and master Feckenham to proue in their supreme gouerments euerye selfe same perticuler fact yea the circumstances about or concerning the fact to be all one in them that clayme this gouernment nowe and those that claymed it then since bothe the states the times yea all the ceremonies of religion of the Iewes then and ours nowe are nothing like and trow ye then the princes perticuler doings must be like and euen the same and euidence must be giuen out of the one for euery fact of the other or else their supreme authorities be not alike The issue betweene them is not so straight laced but requireth onely any such gouernment some such gouernment yea he it al suche gouernment to I meane not all suche actions in the gouernment but the supreme directing gouernance authoritie or powre are proued both alike in either princes estate so well ouer eccl. persons in all their functions then or now as ouer the temporall in theirs For by this rule wheras that most famous prince king Henry the eight did sweare also to his obedience all his temporall subiects in ciuill causes as other Princes likewise haue done and do it would be harde to alleâ—…ge an euidence thereof out of the old Testament and yet their supreme gouernments therin were not therefore vnlike As for the ministring of the othe is but a circumstance to confirme the matter and not the matter itselfe And if king Henry were by the obstinate and craftie malice of his popishe clergiâ—… then constrayned for his more assurance to take an othe or promise of them on the honestie of their priesthoode which God wâ—…t was but a small holde as it went then in the moste of them and that no king of those ancient yeres mentioned in the olde testament béeing not moued by the wickednesse or mistrust of his clergy tooke the like othe or promise of their priestes honestie or fayth of their priesthoodâ—… then what is this to or from the matter why their supreme authorities shoulde not be alike in bothe Do not you also say for your side that the highe Priest had suche supreme gouernment then as your Pope â—…othe chalenge now ouâ—…r all eccl. causes â—…nd dothe â—…ot your Pope nowe exacte of all his clergie in verbo â—…acerdotij by the worde of their priesthoode that they shall make no eccl. law without his consent May we not then returne your owne words on your selfe VVhat euidence can you bring foorth to shew that in the olde lawe any highe Priest exacted this of the clergie vnder him And if ye can not as ye can not dothe not then this your wyle reason and newe marke ouerturne the false clayme that your Pope claymeth of such supreme gouernment now as the high Priest had then But his clayme is false his gouernment nothing like For the high priest then tooke not vpon him to make eccl. lawes as doth now your Pope but only obserued such eccl. lawes as God had made to his hande till time of the Pharisies corruption who not content with Gods lawes had deuised besides many fond lawes of their own inuentions when there wanted amoÌ„g them this kingly authoritie To the which so long as it continued the high priest al other obeyed receyuing and obseruing such eccl. constitutions as their godly princes made vnto them So did Aaron first receiue the eccl. coÌ„stitutions of Moses So after him did alâ—…re residue admit the eccl. constitutions of Dauid the rest of the foresaid princes their priests made none of theÌ„ selues without the Princes consent But the princes ordâ—…ined diuers eccl. orders partly with the aduise and consent partly without yea agaynst the wil coÌ„sent of their clergy now then and yet those godly princes exacted of them euen as they were true priests as the stories of Iosaphat and Ezechias mention how they charged their priests euen in that they were the Lords priests which is all one with that you alleage in verbo sacerdotij that they should do suche things as they appoynted them to do And is not this good and authenticall euidence for king Henries doings but that the priests appoynted any suche ordinance without their princes consents will be harde for you to bring the like or any â—…uidence at all for your Popes exacting And if as ye conclude herevpon this exacting to make no eccl. law without his consent be to make the ciuil magistrate the supreme iudge for the final determinatioÌ„ of causes ecclesiasticall then your Pope hauing no such euidence for him by this your marke is no supreme iudge for suche finall determination but it â—…latly proueth agaynst you that the Princes should be the supreme iudges therein And if the exacting of consent importe suche supreme authoritie as héere ye confesse then whereas not onely these ancient kings but also the ancient christian Emperors in the confirming of your Pope exacted that none shoulde be a lawfull Pope to whome they gaue not their consent it argueth that those Emperours were the supreme Iudges for the finall determination of the Popes ecclesiasticall election Which afterwarde when ye come to the handling therof ye renie affirming that although his consent was necessarie to be required yet it argued no suche supreme iudgement in the matter And thus you care not may ye for the time shuffle out an answere howe falsly or how contrary ye counterblast your false The nexte marke is yet further wyde from the issue and more fonde than any of the other for abandoning his Pope and generall Councels VVhat can ye bring foorthe sayth he out of the olde Testament to aide and relieue your doings who haue abandoned not onely the Pope but generall Councels also and that by playne acte of Parliament And
to go vp to Ierusalem and there to be tryed in the assemblie of the highe Priestes So Athanasius abandoned the councels at Lyre Smirna and Ephesus â–ª So Maximus abandoned the Councell at Antioche So Pauiinus abandoned the Councel at Milayne So Chrisostome abandoned the Councell at Constantinople And so we abandoned the Popes violent councels at Rome and Trident that we might say with Dauid Non consedâ—… iâ—… consilio 〈◊〉 cum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 non introâ—…bo odi ecclesiâ—…m maligâ—…atium cum impijs non â—…edebo I haue not sitten in the counsell of vanitie I will not enter in with wicked doers I haue hated the Churche of the malignant and I will not sitte with the wicked These Councels we haue abandoned M. Stay. but no generall Councels wherein all things are tryed to be truthe or heresies by the touche of the worde of God and not by the Popes the councels or any creatures dâ—…cree besides Omnis homo mendax euery man is a lyer and the worde of God is onely the truthe of doctrine And therefore in all Councels we must crie with the Prophet Adlâ—…gem ad testimonium Let them râ—…nne to the lawe of God to the testimonie of his worde quod si â—…on dâ—…xerint iâ—…xta verbum hoc non erâ—…t eis â—…x 〈◊〉 If the Councell declare any thing to be heresie not according to the worde of God the morning light the 〈◊〉 of righteousnesse shall not shine on them but they shall erre in the shadowe of death But sayth Ambrose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs eâ—…rare non possis followe the â—…pture that thou mayest not erre And if the Councell do not follow them we are made free from following yea licenâ—…ed to abandon and accurse those Councels by your owne Canons Sâ—… quis prohâ—…t vobâ—… quod a Domino 〈◊〉 est rursâ—…s imperâ—…t fieri quod Dominus prohibet exeâ—…rabilis sit ab omnibus qui dilâ—…nt Deum If any body forbid you that that is commanded of the Lorde and agayne commaunde that thing to be done that the Lorde hath forbidden lâ—…t him be accursed of all that loue the Lorde And your Abbote Panormitane willeth vs so to estéeme of your Councels without the scripture that plus credendum vel simpliâ—… lâ—…co 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 qâ—… toti simul conâ—… we muste more beleeue euen a simple lay man alleaging the scripture than all the whole Councell togither And your famous doctor Iohn Gersoâ—… Chauncelour of the vniuersitie of Paris sayth Prima veritâ—…s 〈◊〉 stat c. this truthe standeth first to weete that any simple man beeing not authorized may be so excellently learned in holy writ that we muste more beleeue his assertion in a case of doctrine than the Popes declaration bicause it is euident that we must more beleeue the Gospell than the Pope Neither sayth he thus for the Pope alone but euen for your Councels yea for generall Councels in sacris c. VVe must more beleeue an excellent learned man in the scriptures and alleaging the catholike authoritie than we muste beleeue euen a generall Councell Thus by your owne doctors yea by the Pope him selfe that sayth no proofe oughte to be admitted agaynst the Scripture we may and muste abandon your Councels wherein many things besides and many thinges expressely agaynst the Scripture are determined for truthe and the expresse truthe of the scripture is condemned for heresie And therefore where ye say we renounce them onely for this cause bicause they grounde not them selues on the authoritie of the Scriptures ye shewe a good cause to cleare vs of all heresies and errors and shewe sufficient cause withall why we admitte not your Councels nowe your obstinate frowarde heresies to be suche that ye can not aâ—…ouche for them nor defende them by the holy Scriptures The authoritie whereof if those your Councels doe adâ—…itte as did the olde generall Councels then the clause in the Act of ParliameÌ„t doth no more abandon your Councels than it reiecteth those foure firste or any other that grounde their proues thereon But ye haue some better reason belike why ye set vp this fourth markâ—… of abandoning the Pope and his councels to be exemplified in the olde Testament Partly and most of all say you I say it for an other clause in the Acte of Parliament enacting that no foreigne prince spirituall or temporall shall haue any authoritie or superioritie in this realme in any spirituall cause Either your fingers itche master Stapl. at this clause wherwith ye be pidling so often before ye come to the proper place where this is handled more at large Or else ye do vse the figure of anticipation so mutch and so impertinently to puffe vp your counterblast withall But were it the chiefest cause why ye set vp this marke bicause we reiecte all foraigne authoritie then hath the Bishop hit this marke also at the full euen in all these examples Excepte you can on the other side proue that these godly Princes admitted in their dominions the authoritie of any foraigne Prelate ouer them Of which till you shal be able to bring profe the commaunding and directing of their owne priestes as is sayde before yea euen of the highest Priest of all is argument sufficient to inferre that they admitted not any other straunge Priest ouer them all straunge Priests then béeing heathen Idolaters and therefore this clause of foraigne prelates is also by the Bishop out of the olde Testament fully proued But say you The Popes authoritie ecclesiasticall is no more foraigne to this Realme than the Catholike faythe is foraygne You say so M. Stapl. I will beare ye witnesse but ye shoulde proue it and not say so onely Neuerthelesse be it not foraigne then is he not excluded by that clause nor ye néede so storme thereat that it should be the cause moste of all why ye haue sayde all this and nowe ye lyke it vvell inough saying And yet mighte the Pope reforme vs well inough for any thing before rehearsed Why rehearsed ye this clause then and found most fault therwith since those words hinder nothing his clayme Sauing that say you he is by expresse words of the statute otherwise excluded How chaunce your quarell then M. Stap. is not at that exclusion But wilily ye sawe well inough that he is exempted euen in that he is a foraigne powre And had his name not bene exempted yet the clause that before tâ—…kled ye so muche though now ye would make so light thereat did fully exclude your Pope bicause he is a foraygne power Or elsefull fondly ye quarell moste at that wherat ye had no cause Yes say you there is a cause why I mislike this clause agaynst foraigne authoritie For then I pray you if any generall Councel be made to reforme our misbeleefe if we wil not receiue it who shall force vs And so ye see we be at libertie to receiue
ye can not denie it Would God yet ye could blushe and be at the least ashamed of it But why wishe I shame in so shamelesse maiden Priestes if ye can be maydens that neither haue maidenhed nor shamefastnesse in you are ye not those Locustes that S. Iohn saith should come out of the bottomlesse pitte hauing on their heads as it were crownes like vnto golde and their faces were as it had bene the faces of men and they had heare as the heares of women that is to say a shew and countenance of maydenly virginitie hauing notwithstanding tayles like Scorpions Surely Eneas Siluius your Pope called Pius 2. did not for nought so commonly vse this sentence that where the Fathers not without great consideration at the first forbad Priests to marry and to keepe them selues single they should now not without a greater cause suffer them to marrie In the which wordes he not onely noteth the popish Priestes abominations but also that this forbidding of marriage is not of any commaundement of Christ but merely of mens prohibition but such prohibition as were much better reuoked euen by the best learned Popes opinion as the writers of his life do note that euer satte in that sâ—…ate Of the same iudgement was Erasmus who seing the abhominable life of the popish Priests abosing the simple vnder the nâ—…e of virginitie â–ª Muâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â–ª c. Many causes faith he â—…o persuade a change of the lawe of single life in ecclesiasticall persons And when your Sorbonistes of Paris stamped hereat and wrote against him boasting as you de of the excellencie of virginitie shining in holines Erasmus answered them Qui tractâ—…nt c. They that lay those that medle with the diuine mysteries and the administration of the heauenly worde chastitie doth most become them they say true and godly and I allow their iudgement very well but they do consider what the thing it selfe requireth I consider â–ª what the imbeâ—…ilitie of men requireth Many discommodities I graunt might follow if wiues were permitted vnto Priestes but such discommodities as either the Church or the carefulnesse of Princes might easilie with certaine constitutions remedie But now in so corrupt manners of men their most silthie single life hath farre more greuous discommodities Would to God so many as are priests would turne their minde to cleannesse Thus saide Erasmus of your birginly Priesthood not onely with whâ—… but euen with S. Paule we say it is better marry than to liâ—…e in such wicked burnings and viciouse liuing Yea although the partie had neuer so much vowed virginitie before yet if he could not keepe his vowe but burne in lust it were farre better for him to marry and his mariage as S. Angustine saith is perfect matrimonie And not whoredome as you your Papistes slaunderously do terine it â–ª But no meruaile if ye slauÌ„der our Matrimonie that not onely liue your selues in such wicked demeanour he such stalions as the Prophete cried out of that neighed after their neighbours wines rather than with the honest care of Matrimonie ye would haue any of your own since as ye defiled others â—…eddes so ye accoumpt and write of all matrimonie as a polluted state For so saith Durandus and so ye say all Matrimonium tollis puritatem maculat corpus Matrimony taketh away cleannesse and deâ—…ileth the bodie Whereas the Scripture calleth it Cubile impollutum An vndefiled bedde and an honorable estate And yet for simple fornication it is a common question moued among you whether it be a mortall sinne or no. So fauourable ye are to wickednesse and so harde to Matrimonie To liue in Matrimonie is with Papistes to liue after the â—…eash Which what is it els with S. Paule but to liue in sinne to offende God to deserue death Sâ—… secundam carnem vixeritâ—… moriemini If ye liue after the flesh ye shall die Qui in carne sunt Deo placere non pofsunt They that are in the flesh can not please God. And therefore they reason that Priests may not liue in Matrimonie But to sorsweare Matrimonie to liue a single life how soeuer he liue it Si non caste 〈◊〉 cauâ—…e If not chastely yet closely This with Papistes is virginitie this is an excellent life this at Gods handes deserues a speciall rewarde This hypocrisie of fained virginitie this defacing and destling of honorable matrimonie bicause we crie out vpon we are 〈◊〉 Bicause we reprehends your forced single life that compelleth Priestes not to marrie whether they will or no oâ—… whether they haue or no the gifte of virginitie which is not of them selues but a gift and that of God and that a rare gifte as Christ saith and as experience hath proued a most rare gifte among your votaries we are therefore Iouinians Bicause we preferre marriage before such vncleane virginitie as the honorable necessarie and vndefiled meanes to auoide fornication Bicause we say virginitie I meane not Popish virginitie but true virginitie is in it selfe no such vertue as you make it of especiall rewarde but in respect of auoiding some hinderances as also Matrimonie in respects of auoyding greater cuils therefore we are Iouinians and make them both alike But what say we herein that euen your Schoolemen say not â–ª Durandus aforesatde vppon this selfe same question whether virginitie be to be preferred before matrimonie Aliquod est 〈◊〉 c. Something is good in it selfe something accidentally or inrespect of another thing that is bicause it remoueth an euill or inconuenient thing After the firste sorte meate is good to the bodie After the seconde forâ—…e medicine is good VVee must say therefore that virginitie is not good after the first sorte but after the seconde which appeareth three wayes First thus to abstaine from that that is conuenient in it selfe and good can not of it selfe be good But by virginitie we abstaine from Matrimonie which of it selfe is good therefore virginitie of it selfe is not good Iâ—… which woordes omitting his contradiction to his owne tale he maketh in it selfe Matrimonie to be better than Uirginitie But what stande I on Durandus when all your Priestes incurring therein worse contradiction make Matrimonie a Sacrament but Uirginitie they make none If therefore we be louinians be not you louinians to yâ—… rather per syncopen be ye not louinians as good virgin maydens as euer Iupiter was But to supplie that wantes in you ye presse vs with S. Hieroms authoritie To whome though â—… might fully answere ye with the learned censureâ—… of Eramus on that S. Hieromes 〈◊〉 against 〈◊〉 yet for your furder satisfiyng your deâ—…â—… will referre ye to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 excellent learned father and euen fellow student with S. Hierome one also that had written against 〈◊〉 Whereby ye may sée how farre S. Hierome ouershotte him selfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hâ—… 〈◊〉 saith Ruffinus to Hisrom speaking of Iouinian did first
worshipped ye then and that with such high worship to your solemne Saint Thomas Becket that dyed for no matter of Religion at all But eyther for his obstinacie agaynste his liege Lorde and agaynst all the Barons Spirituall and Temporall of the Realme or if ye colour it neuer so fayre yet was it but in mainteyning his honour and the priuileges of the Clergie and that contrarie to the auncient custome of the Realme except yée will graunt that the Popishe Religion doeth consiste herein Whiche if ye bée ashamed to confesse vpbrayde not then for shame false Martyrs vnto vs nor yet the Canonising of wicked Sainctes We vse no such Canonization at all It redoundeth on your selfe on your Legende on your Popes and on your Pope holy Saincts Whome by this rule you make both Donatists Montanists Manicheans or what soeuer Heretikes ye can obiect besides As for all these Comparisons hitherto betwéene the Protestantes and the Donatists wherein ye thinke ye haue be stowed great cunning there is not 〈◊〉 poyâ—… that is not violently wrested to make it séeme to touch vs and not one poynt that being returned on your selues doeth not rightly and fully hitte you home againe And therefore I for my part am content as you concluding say you be To ende this talke with the whole conference leauing it to the indifferent Reader to consider whether the Popishe Catholikes or the Protestants drawe nearer to the Donatists To come newe at length to the sixt and last parte of this Chapter which consistes in remâ—…ing such motiues as the Bishop alleageth to burtheâ—… Master Feckenham with the practise of the Donatists First master Stapleton deuideth these motiues in twaine Let vs then sayth master Stapleton proceede foorth and consider vpon what good motiues ye charge master Feckenham to be a Donatist whiche are to say truth none other but falsehoode and follie But as ye surmise the one is bicause hee craftily and by a subtile shifte refuseth the prooues of the olde Testament as the Donatists did The other bicause hee with the sayde Donatists should auouch that secuâ—…er Princeâ—… haue not to meddle in matters of Religion or causes ecclesiasticall nor to punishe any man for such causes These two motiues ye say Master Stapleton are to say the truth none other but falsehoode and follie In déede they are the worsâ—… by comming through so false a marchantes handes as yours For shame either tell the wordes as they â—…e at least the true and full effect of them or neuer sette them out in a distinct letter syâ—… you so often but euer falsly vpbrayde the Bishop hereof Else all the follie and falsehoode will proue to be in your selfe and not in the Bishops motiues The Bishop spâ—…ke not of Princes medling or punishing for Ecclesiasticall 〈◊〉 as though the Donatists simpliâ—… denied that anâ—… yâ—… graunted Princes yet so much as to meddle or punishe for your Ecclesiasticall causes that is to say to be your executioners therin as though the Emperors other Christian Princes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more vpon them at that time But the Bishop tolde how the godly fathers craued aide assistance of the magistrats and rulers to reforme them to reduce them to the vâ—…itie of the church to represse their heresies with their au thoritie godly lawes made for that purpose to whome it belonged of duetie and whose especiall seruice of Christ is to see care and prouide that their subiects be gouerned defended and mainteyned in the true and syncere religion of Christ without all errours superstitions and heresies This is that the Bishop wrote and to proue this he alleageth Saint Augustine Thus did Christian Princes gouerne in Ecclesiasticall causes then This did the Donatists then denie vnto them and this do now the Papists denie and ye come sneaking in and tell vs the Bishoppes motiue was this In charging Master Feckenham to followe the Donatists by cause hee with the Donatistes shoulde auouche that seculer Princes haue not to meddle in matters of Religion or causes Ecclesiasticall nor to punishe anie man for suche causes As though the controuersie had bâ—…ne for anie kinde of medling or punishing whiche you sâ—…ming to graunt to Princes to bée your seruaunts and droyles in suche ecclesiasticall causes and so farre as you assigne them might therefore séeme not to play the Donatists when ye play their partes so liuely as can bée and so subtilly that the Donatistes were but Babes vnto you in séeming to giue them some medling or punishing in Ecclesiasticall causes but if they meddle with or punishe you or anie other otherwise than ye commaunde and restrayne them you so little then suffer them to meddle in Ecclesiasticall matters that with solemne curses ye debarre them from medling in anie temporall and ciuill matters too so farre ye passe the Donatists For shame master Stapleton tell your tale plainely that we may sée whether M. Feckenham played the Donatistes part or no or else your doubling wyll declare your selfe to be a Donatist also for companie But let vs sée how ye aunswere these motiues euen as your selfe propounde them The one is say you bicause he craftily and by a subtile shifte refuseth the proues of the old Testament as the Donatistes did Your Stale Iestes M. Stapleton of a fine blast of a horne â–ª of a â—…oule slawe of a blinde betell blunte shifte I ouer passe them When M. Feckenham ye say offereth to yelde if ye can proue this regiment either by the order that Christ left behinde him in the new Testament either by the Doctours either by Councels or els by the continuall practise of any one Churche thinke you M. Horne that this is not a large and an ample offer The largenesse of this offer is not here in questioÌ„ M. St. the offer is large and ample inough â–ª taken of the Bishop at his handes and proued vnto him at his owne demaunde It remaineth then that he stande to his promise and yelde to the truth or else he sheweth that he minded to offer more than he purposed to perfourme Onely now it is examined why here he specifieth the new Testament and quite leaueth out the old Testament â–ª This doing in this pointe saith the B. smelleth of a Donatist Nay say you There is not so much as any coÌ„iecture to gather this vppon yea the old Testament is not by this offer excluded but verely included For if the new Testament which rehearseth many things out of the old haue any thing out of the old Testament that make for this regiment if any Doctour old or new if any Councell haue any thing out of the old Testament that serue for this regiment then is Master Feckenham concluded yea by his owne graunt For so the Doctour or Councell hath it he is satisfied according to his demaunde VVhereby it followeth he doth not refuse but rather allowe and affirme the proufes of the old Testament It might
or no. Now ye may conclude sayth master Stapleton that there is some regiment that Princes may take vpon them in causes Ecclesiasticall Thankes be giuen to God master Stapleton that yet now at the length contrary to all your felowes to all your owne wranglings hitherto the force of the truth hath enforced you to yelde thus much to the B. ye graunt Now that Princes haue some regiment in ecclesiasticall causes which hitherto except the making a law of burning or punishing be an eccl. cause ye haue altogither denied vnto Princes But what is this some regiment that ye graunt theÌ„ now for neither we graunt them al regiment but some regiment also that is to say a supreme regiment And you also denie not in your marginall note that they may take vpon theÌ„ in ecclesiastical matters supreme gouernmeÌ„t authority power care but not say you such supreme gouernment as the othe prescribeth so that here we both agrée of supreme gouernment but the kinde of supreme gouernment is denied And to specifie your meaning herein how large a kind ye graunt or denie ye adde he should haue concluded in all things and causes else he concludeth not agaynst you signifying that you deny to them a supreme gouernment in all things causes ecclesiastical but ye graunt them a supreme gouernment authoritie power and care in things and causes ecclesiasticall First M. Stap. this is but a iangling and shifting quarell in wordes about things and causes ecclesiasticall and all things and causes ecclesiasticall For not onely the Bishop when he speaketh so indefinitely vnderstandeth all but also it is an ordinarie speach allowed in Logike in all things that be naturall or necessarie where the indefinite is counted as much as the vniuersall As to say a man is a reasonable creature or man is mortall is as much as precisely to say all men and euery man is reasonable and mortall And the saying in the next diuision he came to fulfill the lawe and the Prophetes is all one with this he came to fulfill all the lawe and all the Prophetes And likewise this giue vnto God that belongeth to God and to Caesar that belongeth to Caesar is as much to say as this giue vnto God all that belongeth to God c. and euen your selfe doe commonly speake thus indefinitely ecclesiasticall matters when ye meane all ecclesiasticall matters though now when ye be thus â—…iuen to graunt the effect of the matter yet would ye find some shift of descant to frustrate all the matter and say If ye meane of such regiment as ye preteÌ„d where ye know well ynough none other is ment ye make your reckoning without your host as a man may say and conclude before ye haue brought any proufe that they ought or may take vpon them such gouernment Whether this some regiment be such regimeÌ„t or such gouernment for thus M. St. ye loue in termes to dally though the Bishop hath proued it sufficiently and you haue graunted it standing onely like a daintie Nicie besetter on this quaint poynt in things not in all things yea whether this Nice restraint defeate the full proufe of the question in controuersie betwene master Feckenham and the Bishop shal appeare M. St. by calling them â—…ath coram to recken better with their host that is as you haue like a thriftie tapster called vpon so oft before though still ye brought in false reckonings to set before them and mark the issue that they condiscended vpon that is to weâ—…e Any such gouernmeÌ„t in ecclesiastical causes Lo here the demaund of the hoste himselfe be requireth but any such gouernmeÌ„t and that without putting in all in the reckoning Where therfore ye grauÌ„t the B. hath proued it in some eccl. causes which satisfieth the demaund of any ecclesiast causes euen according to your owne wrangling ye confesse the Bishop hath concluded the very issue that was concluded vpon Thus master St. euen by your owne reckoning the B reckoned with his host at the full and hath payed and satisfied that he promised and M. Feckenham required But nowe looke you what reckoning you will make to your friendes that haue here brought your selfe so farre in the lashe that taking vpon you to impugne the Princes gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes ye haue graunted and yelded to it How will your credite holde with your friends yea how will your reckoning hold with it self here ye haue grauÌ„ted some regimeÌ„t yea supreme gouernment though not such supreme gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes In the last Chap. ye would graunt theÌ„ nothing but punishment of those whom you had condemned which is no ecclesiastical matter at all to hang or burne a man And yet ye gaue them no regiment much lesse supreme regiment therein neyther For you would haue al the appointing whoÌ„ he shal punish the prince hath nothing else to do but to execute him whom you deliuer vp vnto him which agréeth nothing with this that now ye haue grauÌ„ted least of all with that ye further grauÌ„t saying For though I graunt you all your examples ye haue alleaged and that the doings of the olde Testament were figures of the new and the saying of Esay that kings should be nourishing fathers to the Church and all things else that ye here alleage yet all will not reach home no not Constantine the great his example How agréeth this graunt master Stap. with all that ye haue done all this while Why haue ye denied the Bishops ensamples heretofore of Moyses Iosue Dauid c. and made such a long and earnest a do in the matter to be grauÌ„ted at length Did ye stand in it then to dilate your booke or do ye graunt it now to bragge of your skill or did ye resist the truth then contrary to your conscience repent ye now or be ye forced to grauÌ„t with some colour that ye cannot for shame in plaine speach denie howsoeuer it be many odde reckonings will fall out in your account against your selfe although you neuer â—…ecken with your host for the matter Ye graunt the saying of Esay also that Kings shoulde be nourishing fathers to the Church and all things else that the Bishop here alleageth yet will not all reach home no not Constantine the great his example VVill not all this reach home Master Stap. to proue the issue that euen your selfe do confesse the Bishop hath alreadie proued For that is the home that it ought tâ—… reach vnto by master Feckenhams demaund But go to measure it with a true yerde master Stap. and ye shall see it fayre and easily without any stretching at al reach euen as full home as you besides can require euen for the supreme gouernment of all maner ecclesiasticall causes looke what ye recken most vppon and that is euen the féeding with the worde vnder which the Sacraments also are comprehended not that he is the Minister of the worde and Sacraments as
you captiously gybe and cauill for that belongeth not to supreme gouernment But that he is so the supreme gouernour in ouerséeing the consecration and deliuerie of the true foode wherewith the people of God ought to be fedde that euen he ouerséeth the féeder himselfe And for this cause the King is called of the Prophete the nourishing father and Quéenes are named Nourses that although the ministerie of féeding pertaine to the ministers yet the prouision for the foode the ouersight that the children of God be duely fedde with the right milke with the true bread and water of lyfe belongeth to the Princes And therefore haue they the name of nourses not to nourishe them in ciuill matters and corporall fâ—…de onely but as in ciuil so in â—…acte verbi in the milke of the worde of God also Is this only the cherishing of the good childe by giuing landes reuenewes maintenaunce and lyuing to the Churche Is this onely the displing of the frowarde childâ—… or as ye call it the punishing of the heretike No M. Stapleton Lyra his exposition and yours doe not agrée He sayth they are nourses what to doe to feede whom the faithfull ones wherewith with the milke of the worde whose worde euen the worde and sacraments of God. Wherof sith the ministery and execution belongeth not vnto them but to the ministers it followeth necessarily thervpon that the prouision direction appointment care and ouersight which is the supreme gouernement belongeth to them And this is that which Lyrâ—… confesseth the B. vrgeth of Constantine that he was such another nourse as did kepe defend maintaine vpholde and feede the pore faithfull ones of Christ yea caried them in his bosome as it were and procured them to be fedde did set forth proclamations not only against false religion but also to set forth to exhort and allure vnto the Christian faith caused not only the Idolatrous religion to bee suppressed but caused also on the other parte the true knowledge and religion of Christ to bee brought in and planted among his people and did not only make lawes for punishing heretikes and Idolaters but also reformed all manner abuses about Gods seruice Thus sayth the Bishop out of Eusebius did Constantine play the nourses part Nowe what saye you to all this M. Stapleton All this of Constantine say you is graunted and maketh nothing for you Whether it maketh for vs or no we will not contende But it maketh for the matter and being graunted it maketh vp the matter For and ye will graunt thus much from your heart inwarde which ye nowe graunt from the téeth outwarde by compulsion of the manifest truth ye might come home well ynough with a wannion and bestow your wit and trauell better than thus to graunt vnto and yet with pieuishnesse to wythstande the manifest truth of the matter The Quéenes Maiesties othe requireth no more of you to giue to hir than here ye graunt to giue to Constantine to set foorth Christes religion to make lawes and constitutions not only of punishment but of reformation of all maner abuses about Gods seruice to prouide that the Church be fed with Gods worde and in all pointes aboue sayde shewe her selfe a very nource of the Church committed to hir gouernement as the childe is to the nourse What one thing ecclesiasticall is not here comprehended or can ye shewe cause why she ought not to haue the same authoritie in hir dominions as well as Constantine to whome ye graunt it had in his if ye saye she doth not this but the contrarie this is but your wicked slaunder M. Stapleton But graunt hir hir interest and then trie that Hir right is one thing and whether she dischargeth well the same or no is another thing Graunt hir hir right as you doe to Constantine and then spare not to improue what ye can proue amisse Nowe hauing graunted thus much which in dede concludeth vp all the matter least he shoulde vtterly be discrâ—…dited of all his friendes he goeth about so much as he can in wrangling of wordes to defeate once againe all his former graunt according to his practise in the Chapter before For where the Bishop by the example of Constantyne proueth the Prince to be herein not only a nourse to the people but also to bee appoynted vnto them of God as it were the common or vniuersall Byshop as Eusebius testifieth of Constantine and Constantine to other Byshops calleth himselfe a Byshop signifying his carefull ouersight ouer all his people in setting forth Gods true religion Maister Stapleton first snappeth at thys worde Byshoppe secondlye hée challengeth the Byshoppe for curtalling Eusebius sentence And when Eusebius sayeth he calleth hym as it were a common or vniuersall Byshoppe I suppose yee meane not that hee was a Byshop in deede For your selfe confesse that Princes Bishops offices are farre distincted and disseuered that the one ought not to break into the office of the other The Bishops meaning is euident master Stap. and so are his words But your meaning is to brabble to tickle in the Readers heade a suspition that he confounded these offices Is there no difference betwéene these sayings he was as it were a Bishop and he was a Bishop in dede Yes M. St. and ye were not a very wrangler in dede ye might perceyue by these wordes as it were he plainly ment and as it were spake it that he was no B. in deede And what though he were no Bishop in dede in the function and office of a Bishops ministerie no more was he also a nourse in deede nor the people were suckling babes in deede nor the worde of God is milke in deede yet as these things be not falsly spoken but being borowed speaches in their senses import not onely a true but a more excellent vnderstanding than the bare wordes vsually betoken so the Emperour being named to be as it were a common or vniuersall Bishop and yet in deede being no Bishop it argueth that he had this name bicause of his common and vniuersall gouernment ouersight and care ouer all Bishops and causes Ecclesiasticall This shift therefore to slinke away from the manifest meaning of the wordes by threaping on the Bishop this kindnesse that he shoulde meane to proue him a very Bishop in dede is a very meane shift though it haue in dede a shrewde meaning Master Stapleton And if you did so meane say you Eusebius himself would soone confounde you if you reherse Constantines whole sentence that he spake to the Bishops What a good year meane ye M. St. ye vrge this meaning further than néedes that the B. should meane to make the Emperor a Bishop in the Bishoply ministerie therfore curtalled as ye call it Eusebius sentences If Eusebius sentence set it downe as whole as ye list confound them that meane to confound these offices it will neuer soone or late confound the B. the popish Bishops
it may rather confounde for they confounde their offices turning Bishops not as it were into lay men but into lay men in deede What the Bishops wordes do meane is most playne to a man of meane witte that list not to Iangle about nothing neither the wordes importe any such meaning nor this is any thing in question the ministeriall office but the supreme gouernment which are two farre different things But since that to no purpose ye chalenge the B. for curtalling Eusebius words let vs behold how you do set them downe For thus say you he saith to the Bishops Vos quidem eorum quae intus sunt in Ecclesia agenda ego vero eorum qua extra sunt Episcopus à Deo sum constitutuâ—… You are Bishops saith he of those thinges that are to be done within the Church I am Bishop of outwarde thinges which answere of his may satisfie any reasonable man for all that ye bring in here of Constantine or all that ye shall afterwarde bring in which declareth him no supreme Iudge or chiefe determiner of causes Ecclesiasticall but rather the contrarie and that he was the ouerseer in ciuill matters And the most that may be enferred hereof is that he had the procuration and execution of Churche matters which I am assured all Catholikes will graunt Ye would faine I sée M. Stapl. reuoke your graunt and it could be cleanly conueyde or so to limite it that it might not appéere ye haue granted that that all your fellowes denie But this reuocation is to late Neuerthelesse fuli pretely ye compasse the matter to defeate all these most plaine not wordes but doings of Constantine by shoouing at this name B. shop in the Emperour which in any case ye caÌ„ not abide And therefore as who though B. went aboute to confounde the offices of a Bishop and of a Prince and thereto had concealed Eusebius words ye solemnly take on yâ—…n to set them out both in Latine and in English. But tell me by that false faith of yours M. Stapleton why ye haue not translated the wordes aright in English that ye haue set downe in Latine did ye sée in déede they made nothing for you but rather much against you is the English of intus in Ecclesia within the Church And the English of eorum quae extra Outward ciuill things or matters or Ego vero c. Episcopus à ' Deo sum constitutâ—… I am a Bishop what is manifest corruption of plaine wordes and euident sense if this be not this is past cutting of the tayle M. St. or slitting his nose and paring his eares to dresse it like a perfect curtall but euen to cutte both buttockes and heade away and make it a carrion karkasse this translating is trans I ordanem in déede But the wordes of Constantine the sense are plaine You saith he speaking to the spirituall pastours are Bishops of those thinges that in the Churche are to be done within or inwardly But I am appointed of God a Bishop of those things that are forthout or outwardly As who should say your Bishoply office in Gods Churche is in the ministeris of those things that worke inwardly that perce the heart enter into the soule cleaue the thoughtes in sunder and properly belong to the inwarde man the liuely worde of god My Bishoply office in Gods Churche is distinguished from this and is in things without that is in the outwarde setting forth and publique direction of Gods worde to be duly taught by you Thus both their offices were in Gods Church the matter and groundworke of both their Bishoprikes was Gods true religion But the doing of the one was pertayning to the inwarde man the doing of the other to the outwarde man. And this is the very distinctioÌ„ that Constantine maketh which being not falsely translated as you do and so misunderstoode may satisfie as ye say any reasonable man But your vnderstanding is very vnreasonable to vnderstand by inward things things ecclesiasticall and by outward things only ciuill things in déede they be out and quite out of the consideration of the Churche But wherefore then called he him selfe a Bishop also with them yea an vniuersall Bishop as Eusebius termeth him but to declare that his ouersighte was in the same matter that was theirs the matter was Gods truth and Religion in bothe the manner was outwarde or inwarde as eithers Bishoprike required Otherwise if he had meant onely of ciuill matters as you expounde he had bene no more a Bishop thereby than the very Soldane or great Turke or any other Heathen Prince that ouersee their ciuill matters very circumspectly And so as ye did in your fourth Chapter ye make Constantine for all these notable things in him that your selfe before haue graunted no better than an infidell Prince in this behalfe For by outward ye say is meant ciuill matters But the ciuill gouernement ye say also reacheth no furder than the peoples quietnesse wealth abundance and prosperouse maintenance that these thinges are common as well to the heathen as to the Christian gouernment Thinke ye M. Stapleton these Fathers meant no furder gouernment nor in other matters than these when they called Constantine an vniuersall Bishop and that Constantine measured his office no furder when he called him selfe by the name of a Bishop â–ª for shame M. Stapleton deface not to Christian a Prince after so Turkish a manner nor thereto so manifestly falsifie your authour nor abuse your reader with such a shamelesse impudence Well say you And the moste that may be inferred thereof is that he had the procuration and execution of Churche matters which I am assured all Catholikes will graunt May we be assured M. Stapleton on your worde that all your popish Catholikes will graunt euen thus much For I verily feare they will graunt it no furder than it pleaseth them And where ye are so readie to assure vs of others graunts what assurance haue we had alreadie of all your owne liberall graunts when ye were disposed to wrangle as now againe ye do for how agreeth this euen with your former graunt that Princes might make lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion that Princes might take some regiment vppon them in Ecclesiasticall causes yea might do as much as all these ensamples specifie and that now ye make the most to be but the procuration and execution of Church matters Although what ye meane by these wordes ye tell not would ye haue them onely the Churches that is as you meane by the Churche onely the Priests proctours and executioners now truly ye limite them a full faire office But thinke ye the name of B. and vniuersall B. did importe nothing els was that the most that may be inferred thereof and yet that is more than onely to be their executioner as ye said before to be as ye adde here to it their proctour also Yea it is
which later clause I am assured doth muche more take away a supreme regiment in all causes ecclesiasticall than necessarily by force of any wordes binde vs to pay yea any tribute to our Prince This quarell M. St. is an euident vntruthe for the Byshop hath not left out the other part of the senteÌ„ce but mentioned it in the next words immediatly following Admonishing notwithstanding al princes and people that Cesars authoritie is not infinite or without limits for such authoritie belongeth only to the king of al kings but bounded and circumscribed within the boundes assigned in Gods worde Which words of the bishop not only make playn relation vnto but also comprehende the sentence folowing quae dei deo and giuing vnto God that perteineth to God. And this limitation youre selfe anon afterwarde confesse that the Byshop specifieth though héere ye denie it according to the maner of your quarelling disposition But whereto M. Stap. moue ye this quarell This latter clause I am assured say you dothe muche more take away a supreme regiment in causes ecclesiasticall than necessarily by force of any words binde vs to pay yea any tribute to our Prince Are ye so well assured héereof M. Stap but by your leaue for all ye be so well assured if this sentence muste be vnderstoode of may and not of ought then perchance it may neither take away that supremacie that belongeth to the Prince nor that supremacie may hinder our duetie to god Yea what if this same may or might and ought not may become an argument for all popish traytors agaynst their Princes teaching subiectes that they may giue them their dueties but they ought not For I am assured on the other side that the Priestes and Byshops to their Princes yea the Byshop of Rome him selfe to the Emperoures as you vnderstande Cesar haue yéeded their seruice obedieÌ„ce yea and their tributes also ere this howe soeuer since they haue wrong them selues from that olde obedience that they ought to Cesar. And if to subtracte this ye may thus dally on the former clause why may not all Papistes for the later clause of the sentence to vpholde their honour of Images their inuocation of Saincts their owne traditions and vnwritten verities against Gods expresse worde and commandement alleage for them that they may giue to God that that belongeth to God but not that they ought as bounde thereto necessarily by force of any wordes For this I am sure of also that these wordes of Christ do make no more mencion of dutie toward the one parte of the sentence than to the other the one comprehendeth not may and the other ought but though the dutie to God be greater and more excellent than the dutie towarde the Prince yea and boundeth it as the Bishop saide yet dutie belongeth vnto hothe and both ought to haue it And we be not here licenced but flatly coÌ„maunded to giue that that is dutie to eyther partie The wordes are manifest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Reddite Render you that vnto Caesar that is Caesars and that that is Gods to God. So that if reddite Caesari quae sunt Caesaris be no more but this ye may giue vnto Cesar those things that are Cesar then may reddite Deo quâ—… sunt Dei be also by as good Latine ye may giue to God those things that are Gods. What figuratiue diuinitie yea what figuratiue Grammer call ye this wherof ye crake so much and finde such fault in others and can not sée in your selfe how your Diuinitie either marres your Grammer or your GraÌ„mer your Diuinitie And yet both must go for excellent good for why you are assured of the matter that the imperatine mode is in the one clause no more than the potentiall commanding to do is no more but to say ye may do though in the other clause it retaineth still his force Besides this good Diuinitie that we be not necessarily by force of any wordes bounde to pay yea any tribute to our Princes and so may denie them both that and all duties else as do the Papists when they be disposed to refuse their lawfull obedience to their soueraignes as you your Louanistes do This is a holy diuinitie Did euer any of the ancient Diuines giue this libertie to subiects against their Princes or thus expounde these wordes and not rather al with one coÌ„sent yea your popish writers hereoÌ„ also so many as I haue read gather here vpoÌ„ a necessary dutie of al subiects obedieÌ„ce tributes honor al other prehemineÌ„ces beloÌ„ging to Princes chieâ—…y on this senteÌ„ce write of purpose vpon this coÌ„mon place of subiects dutiful obedience to their magistrates you make so light a matter of it that ye say it bindeth vs not so much as to pay any tribute at al vnto theÌ„ But that all the world may sée how falsely ye wrest the wordes of Christ ye shal sée some of the fathers iudgments on these words giue vnto Cesar that that is Cesars that they inferre not that they may giue but that they ought to giue them Tertullian an ancient Father saith Alius est denarius queÌ„ Câ—…sari debeo c. It is an other penie that I owe to Cesar that pertaineth to him wherof it was theÌ„ moued that is to say a tributarie penie due to be paide of tributarie not of free meÌ„ I pray ye M. St. what is that English of Debeo of debitus Origen likewise an auÌ„cieÌ„t Father saith In teÌ„pore ergo Christi c. In the time therefore of Christ when they were commanded to giue tribute to the Romaines there was a thought couÌ„sel amoÌ„g the Iewes UtruÌ„ deberent whether they ought that were Gods people his portion to giue Princes tribute or rather take armes for their libertie except they were suffred to liue as they lusted And the story telleth that one Iudas a Galilean of whom Luke mencioneth in the Actes of the Apostles drawing away the multitude of the Iewes taught NoÌ„ oportere they ought not to giue tribute to Cesar call Cesar lord But he that was at that time the tetrarch hastned to perswade the people that they should regard the present state not wilfully take armes against the stronger But be coÌ„tent to giue tribute And truly the worde of this present gospel not in deede manifestly yet it shewes these things But he that diligently coÌ„sidereth the sense of the present wordes shal finde this yea eueÌ„ in this place For the Phariseis had not had occasion being willing to take Christ in his speach sending their disciples with the HerodiaÌ„s to aske him whether it were lawfull to giue Cesar tribute or no if it had bene manifest amoÌ„gst them that they ought not to giue it that there had bene an agreement of all their willes that they should not giue it c. Thus we sée that the question they moued to Christ was whether
Cesar then Emperour and stretch no furder If it determine nothing but money If it inferre no necessitie or dutie but only giue licence how then did these Fathers alleage vrge this sentence against these Princes and how do you alleage them against the Bishop do ye not sée how ye speake against your selfe but I forbeare you till ye come to your appointed place Although furder here I might admonish you since ye reherse here no wordes of those authours but referrâ—… yourselfe to another fitter occasion not to stande dalying in so often preuentions and rehersalls and all to no purpose but onely to encrease your volume Much lesse to triumphe therevppon till ye haue sette downe some proufe either of them or of other to confute the Bishop for els ye do but triumphe before the victorie and such commonly in the ende do lâ—…se the victorie For hitherto ye haue alleaged nothing against the Bishops allegation and yet say you This ill happe hath M. Horne euen with his first authoritie of the newe Testament extraordinarily and impertinently I can not tel how chopped in to cause the leaues and his booke and his lies to make the more muster and shewe This was an happie happe for you M. Sta. to ruffle in your Rhetorike that it happed the B. to haue so ill an hap by alleaging this sentence for hereby ye haue shewed first your truth honestie That where the Bishop citeth two plaine sentences out of the new Testament together to coÌ„firme his assertioÌ„ you say he alleageth here but one Where the Bishop citeth this of Cesar the later of the twaine you quite omitting the other say this is his first authoritie of the new Testament Good happe haue you M. St. to haue chopped in two lies so round togither to make the more muster of lies in your booke but happie man happy dole they say With the like happinesse haue ye founde out this grammar rule that Reddite is ye may giue But chiefly this happie new Diuinitie to refuse your Princes lawfull authoritie that necessarily by force of any wordes ye be not bounde to pay so much as any tribute to your Prince All these happes was it your hap first to finde out And therefore all your side haue good cause M. St. to count ye an happie man. But M. St. not content withall these happes stormeth yet against the Bishop for adioyning these wordes Admonishing not withstanding all Princes people that Cesars authoritie is not infinite or without limites for such authoritie belongeth only to the King of all Kinges but bounded and circumscribed within the boundes assigned in Gods worde This M. St. calleth a foolish and a friuolous admonition without any cause or ground grounded on M. Hornes fantasticall imagination and not vpon Christ as he surmiseth Is this M. Stapl. a foolish and a friuolous admonition a groundlesse fantasticall Imagination to say that the Princes authoritie is not infinite but circuÌ„scribed within the boundes assigned in Gods worde what would ye haue had the Bishop to say that it had bene infinite without any boundes such as onely belongeth to God but how would ye then haue triumphed at the matter and in déede ye had had good cause Where now ye haue none but that ye be disposed to quarel at euery thing be it neuer so well spoken Neyther was it without cause or grounde syth the wordes that immediately are ioyned so togither make an expresse limitation that the former part of the sentence is bounded with the later parte that the Prince ought to haue such due belonging to him as hindreth not the yéelding of that due that belongeth to god And therfore the Bishops admonition was not onely godly and true but grounded on Christes wordes yea and comprehendeth them also and was no lesse necessarie for the Bishop to haue vsed both for that it maketh a distinction of that supremacie that your Pope chalengeth intruding and incroching on those things that are only due to God and not suffring his authoritie to be limitted by Gods worde and woulde rule Gods worde and go beyonde the boundes thereof And also for that to the ignorant simple of your side ye slauÌ„der the B. and other setters forth of gods word yea the Quéenes maiestie her self to take on hir and we to yelde to hir such an absolute and indefinite authoritie as taketh from god from his word from his ministers that authoritie that belongeth vnto them Which syth it is your vsuall lying and malicious slaunder to sturre offence to the simple to bring the Prince and Preachers in obloquie and the authoritie in suspition and hatred it was not a friuolous fantasticall imagination as your fantasticall braine imagineth but a most necessarie cause for the B. to haue giuen that admonition to shew what authority we allow in the prince the Prince taketh on hir agréeable to that that Christ coÌ„mauÌ„ds to render Nay say you it is not grouÌ„ded vpoÌ„ christ VVho willeth that to be giuen to Caesar that is Caesars and to God that is Gods but determineth expresseth nothing that is to be giuen to Caesar but onely payment of money And yet if we consider as I haue sayde what was the question demaunded it doth not determine that neither thoughe the thing it selfe be most true Doth this M. St. determine nothing but money yea not so much as that neither whie what doth it determine then nothing say you if we consider as I haue sayde what was the question demaunded In déede M. Stap. if we considered as you haue sayde it would be a very meane determination of any thing And yet if you would better haue considered euen that you haue sayde ye shoulde haue found this your saying to haue bene sayde without your considering cappe For then ye tolde vs that thoughe it forced not that we ought to pay tribute yet it forced that we might pay it which inforceth yet somewhat more than bare nothing And euen héere present ye say that Christ determineth expresseth nothing that is to be giuen to Cesar but onely paymeÌ„t of money And by by ye say it doth not determine that neither And so ye tell vs it dothe determine nothing and yet it determines something and that something it doth determine and yet it dothe not determine it If we consider it as you haue sayde it howe would ye haue vs consider it master Stap. when your selfe so inconsiderately haue saide suche contradictions Besides this as repugnant as the rest before ye sayd his wordes imported onely that they might which is not to will a thing to be done but to permit or licence that a thing may be done or may not be done And héere ye playnly say he willeth that to be giuen to Cesar that is Cesars and to God that is Gods. But Christes willing a thing to be done is his commaundement that it be done and not a licence that may or may not
them master Stapleton till ye set them downe I thinke they will all come in the ende to the effect of this sentence here so often by all yourside alleaged Ye cite Chrysostome as though it were at the full Where in déede ye cut off both the heade the middle and taile of his sentence whereby considering the occasion and purpose of his wordes we might sée that they shoulde not be wrested from his meaning Chrysostome vpon these wordes of the Prophet Esay Factum est anno quo mortuâ—…s est Ozias rex It came to passe in the yere that king Ozias died after a Preface made of Priestes mariage taking occasion of the Prophet Esays wife telleth of Ozias presumption Uerum hic Ozias c. but this Ozias when he was a crowned King bicause he was iust waxed hawtie in minde and conceyuing a greater courage than was for his estate entred into the temple And what sayth Esay He entred into the holy of holies and sayde I will offer incense He being a King vsurpeth the principalitie of the priesthood I will sayth he offer incense bicause I am iust But abide within thy bounds And so Chrysostome procéedeth in the sentence cited by you Alij sunt termini The boundes of a kingdome of a priesthood are not al one c. Which sentence ye truly cite til ye come to these wordes VVhen I say to me I vnderstand a priest And there ye strike of mâ—… words of Chrysostam than ye cited Which belike ye do for two purposes Partly for that ye could not abide to heare of any vices or discommendation in priests therfore ye cull out only that which soundeth to their praise dignitie Partly for that this would haue made the purpose of Chrysost playner reprouing them that disâ—…erne not betwene the office the persoÌ„ At which fault your self so late did stuÌ„ble in princes not discerning between Neroes vices a princes office As in Chrysostoms time same despised the office of a priest bicause of the faults of diuerse priests The wordes of Chrysostome folowing those you cite are these Therefore when thou seest an vnworthie priest slaunder not the priesthod For thou oughtest not to coÌ„demne the things but him that euill vseth a good thing Syth Iudas also was a traytor howbeit for this the order Apostolical is not accused but the mind of him Neither is it the fault of the priesthood but of the euill mind And thou therfore blame not the priesthod but the priest that vseth euill a good thing For if one dispute with thee and say seest thou yonder Christianâ—… answere thou but I speak not to thee of the persons but of the things or else how many phisitions haue bene made slaughtermen haue giuen poisons for remedies And yet I dispise not the arte but him that euill vseth the arte How many shipmeÌ„ haue guided euill their ships yet is not the arte of sayling euill but the mind of them If the Christian man be wicked accuse not thou the profession the priesthood but him that euill vseth a good thing These are Chrysostomes wordes which you omit and then followeth as you recite Regâ—… corpora c. The bodies are coÌ„mitted to the king and so forth as ye say til ye come to the knitting vp of the sentence with Ozias which again you omit VeruÌ„ rex c. But that king going beyond his bounds and passing the measure of the kingdom atteÌ„pted to adde somwhat more and entred into the temple willing with authoritie to offer incense VVhat therfore sayth the priest It is not lawfull for thee Ozias to offer incense Behold libertie behold a mind that knoweth not boÌ„dage behold a tong touching the heauens behold liberty that cannot be restrained behold the body of a maÌ„ the mind of an angel behold one that goeth on the grouÌ„d is coÌ„uersant in heaueÌ„ Thou sawest a king thou sawest not a diademe Tel not me it is a kingdom where is the transgression of lawes It is not lawful for thee O king to offer inceÌ„se It is not lawful for thee to come into the holy of holies Thou passest thy bouÌ„ds thou sekest things not grauÌ„ted to thee therfore shalt leese the things thou hast receiued It is not lawful for thee to offer inceÌ„se but this is giuen vnto the priests This is not thine but this is mine haue I vsurped on me thy purple vsurpe not thou my priesthod It is not lawful for thee to offer inceÌ„sâ—… but only for the sons of AaroÌ„ By this it plainly appeareth wherevpon Chrysost. speaketh to wete of the seuerall functions of the spirituall pastor and the prince and that it is not lawfull for the prince to intrude himself into the office of the diuine minister He may not more take vpoÌ„ him to administer the diuine sacraments of christ his church now although he be the prince to the which not with standing you admitted womeÌ„ thaÌ„ might Ozias sacrifice then For as then God had appoynted who should sacrifice so hath he apointed who should now minister his sacrameÌ„ts Now if ye had shewed that the supreme gouernment ouer ecclesiasticall causes the ouersight and direction of the setting forth of Gods true religion the abolishing of false religion and the deposing of Idolatrous Priestes that obsâ—…inately mainteyne errours agaynst the expresse worde of God be the like doing to this fact of Ozias if ye had proued that the Prince hath euer done or doth or claymeth to do the like fact to this of Ozias in ministring the sacrament then had you alleaged this sentence to some purpose else maketh it nothing to the purpose but maketh agaynst your popish mid wiues they rather play the part of Ozias It maketh not agaynst the Q. Maiestie but most of all against your Pope himselfe that thinketh he playth the high priests part and is so farre therfrom that none is more like than he to this vsurper entring into the holyest place and vsurping the priesthood the sacrifice the power and the honour that belongeth onely to Iesus Christe himselfe As for the office of the true minister of God which neyther your Pope nor you his shaâ—…elings arâ—… is in déede as Chrysostom sayth both a distinct function from the princes and hath other boundes and also we graunt surmounteth farre the boundes of the Princes office in respect of his spirituall ministerie of administring the sacraments of preaching the glad tydings of saluation of denouncing to the obstinate sinners the threates of Gods wrath and vengeance to the penitent the most comfortable promises of Gods mercie fauour whose sentence being rightly applyed in earth God hath promised to ratifie the same in heauen And for this cause doth Chrysost â–ª so highly extoll this priesthood referring all his prayses to the dignitie of his ministerie in respect whereof the Princes ministeris is but outwarde and earthly medling nothing with the administration of this high function but onely with the
there is wedlocke But what say we to Philip had he not foure daughters but where soure daughters were there was both a wife and matrimonie But what then doth Christ he was indeede borne of a virgin but he came to a mariage and brought his gift with him They haue saith she no wine and he turned water into wine with virginitie honoring mariage commending with his gift the thing that was done that thou shouldest not abhorre mariage â–ª but shouldest hate whooredome For at my perill I behoofe the saluation although thou shalt wed a wife Looke to thy selfe a woman if shee be good is an helper to thee c. All this more saith Chrysostome in the coÌ„mendation of the ministers mariage euen in the same Homelie cited by you M. St. which estate of mariage to be ioyned in sith the Pope his Priests can not abide and alleage such impediments as here Chrysostome confuteth it is an euident argument by the way that they 〈◊〉 nothing lesse than such Priests as Chrysostome ascribeth this spirituall kingdome of the ministerie of Gods worde and Sacraments vnto and where Chrysostome as your selfe haue cited him saith that the Princeforceth the Priest exhorteth the one by necessitie the other by giuing counsell the one hath visible armour the other spirituall Contrarywise your Pope not only exhorteth but extorteth and forceth too not only by counsell but by necessine extreme violence Not only pretending spirituall armour such as he calleth his curses with booke bell and candle but also with visible armour muironed about where he rideth or on mens backes is caried with a gard of Swarâ—…trutters Switchers with gunnes Harquebushes partesans glayues and weapons as if it were Iudas with his armed bande to take our Sauiour Christ. And he claymeth thriurisoiction of â—…oth the swords wresting thertâ—… the wordes of the Disciple Eâ—…ce 〈◊〉 gladiâ—… hic Beholde heere are two swordes to the temporall and visible armour so well as to the spiritual Wherevpon Eonifacius the eight did not onely hang seuen keyes at his girdle in token of his spirituall power but girte him selfe also with a sworde in token of his temporall power These Prelates the refore are not such kinde of Priests as Chrysostome speaketh of Neither notâ—… I this as a faultâ—… in this or that person but as errours defended and maynteined by them for the aduauncement of their naughtie Priesthoode What maketh then this sentence of the excellencie of the Priestes ministerie for the ministerie of the Popes Priesthoode that is all the quitâ—… contrarie Suche false Priestes therefore the Prince hath authoritie to remoue them and to place suchâ—… Priests as Chrysostome speaketh of and so to bowe his head vnder their hands that is to oâ—…ey their ministerie which is no derogation to the matter in hande of the Princes supreme gouernement Thus muche M. Stap. to your sentence alleaged out of Chrysostome vpon the which you and all your side do harpe so often and yet beeing well considered it not onely makes nothing for you but muche agaynst you Nowe to your argument that ye gather héere vpon saying Nowe then M. Horne I frame you suche an argument The Priest is the Princes superiour in some causes ecclesiasticall Ergo The Prince is not the Priestes superiour in all causes ecclesiasticall The antecedent is clearely proued out of the words of Chrysostome before alleaged Thus. The Priest is superiour to the Prince in remission of sinnes by Chrysostome â–ª but remission of sinnes is a cause ecclesiastical or spirituall Ergo The Priest is the Princes superiour in some causes ecclesiasticall or spirituall To this argument béeing thus framed vpon the which M. Stap greatly triumpheth I answere it hath thrée fallations in it for fayling The first in this worde superiour béeing vnderstoode two ways either in respect of the ministerie or function or in respect of the publique ouersight ordering and direction In the former sense the maior is true The Priest is superiour to the Prince in respect of his ministerie or function But this worde superiour béeing thus vnderstoode in the conclusion for superioritie onely in the ministerie or function concludeth nothing agaynst the Princes superioritie which is only the publike ouersight ordering and direction that this superiour ministerie and function be not abused Now if the word superiour be not thus vnderstoode but simply to be the superiour or in the later sense that is to say the Priest is superiour in the publike ouersight ordering and direction that the office be duely administred by the minister then is this maior false for the Priest is not thus the Princes superiour The second fallation is in the words remission of sinnes If he meane thereby the ouersighte to sée suche remission be duely made by the Priest then is the maior also false The Priest is not the Princes superiour therin If he means by remission of sinnes the action of remitting them or the function of the office in pronouncing them remitted then is the maior true but the minor false For so remission of sins is not a cause ecclesiasticall but an action or function ecclesiasticall Wheron ariseth the third fallation of these words ecclesiasticall cause Which the statute and the title mentioning that the Prince hath supremacie in all ecclesiasticall causes he wilfully wresteth as though all actions and functions eccl were yéelded to the Princes supremacie Where neither the Prince requireth nor the statute title yéeldeth any such supremacie in the actions but onely a supremacie in the causes not to do them but to sée them rightly done And thus by resolutioÌ„ of these words it appeareth how the Priest in one sense as Chrysostome sayth is superiour to the Prince not only in this one thing of remission of sinnes But in al other actions of his dutie and the Prince is farre inferiour to him and yet the Prince in the other sense of the general direction and publike ouersight is in this and all other causes eccl. superiour to the Priest and the Priest farre inferiour vnto him And so the superioritie of the Priest hindreth nothing the supremacie of the Prince Master St. hauing now as he thinketh by this mightie argument wonne the fielde and quite confounded the Byshop setteth out as a trophaâ—…m or monument of his historie this marginall note Euidently proued by S. Chrysostome the Prince not to be the supreme gouernour in causes ecclesiasticall And crieth out for ioy Which being most true what thing caÌ„ you coÌ„clude of al ye haue or shal say to win your purpose or that ye heere presently say And thus on the triumph of this argument M. St. reiecteth all that the B. hath said as insufficieÌ„t would returne vpon him the sentence of S. Augustine against the Donatists that the Byshop cited agaynst M. Feck Wherein he bringeth nothing a freshe that is not before declared and answered vnto besides vayne words of course worthy no other answere than to be returned
commendations these vertues so highly coÌ„mended are both a goodly and godly president for all Princes to set before them Thus much therefore to the former winde of your counterblast Now to the later which after all these long discourses draweth somewhat néerer to the matter in admitting the authour Nicephorus his testimonies and the Emperours doings and answering to the Bishops allegations thereon The effect whereof is to improue all that is alleaged as insufficient to inferre this supremacie And it is quartred into foure partes Firste prâ—…supposing this Prince to be Andronicus all 〈◊〉 doing about to be the reuoking of Michâ—…els yelding to the Pope at the Councell at Lions he 〈◊〉 to proue that not 〈◊〉 but the Priestes though wicked had the chiefe â—…uperioritie Secondly he 〈◊〉 against the gathering and sorting of the Bishops 〈◊〉 Thirdly he entreth into the inualiditie of the allegacions And fourthly here vpon he maketh his triumph and 〈◊〉 thanks for the victorie In the first parcell sayeth M. Stapleton But now M. Horne what if these hereticall doyngs do nothing releeue your cause nor necessarily induce the chiefe superioritie in all causes and perchaunce in no cause Ecclesiasticall concerning the finall discussing and determination of the same verily without any perchaunce it is most plainly and certainely true it doth not For euen in this Schismaticall councell and hereticall fynagog the Bishops played the chiefe parte and they gaue the finall though a wrong and a wicked iudgement VVho also shewed their superioritie though vngodly vppon this mans Father in that they would not suffer him to be enterred Princelike them selues much more worthy to haue bene cast after their decease to the Dogges and Rauens vppon â—… durtie doonghill What those Priests were worthie we haue your worthie iudgement M. Stapleton whereby we perceiue your Priests can erre although they be Massemongers and by your former sayings Reuerent worshippers of Images too But all will not helpe they are adiudged to be cast on a dâ—…rtje doonghill to be deuoured of Dogges and Raues bicause they would not suffer â–ª Michael Paleologus their Emperour who notwithstanding intruded him selfe by violence to be enterred Prince like I pray you M. Stap. be an vpright iudge What then are those Priests much more worthy that would not suffer their liuing Princes to vse their princely authoritie what are those Popes more worthie â–ª that haue not onely not suffred their predecessours to be enâ—…orted Pope like but haue pulled them out of the ground againe and hacked and mangled them What are those prelates worthie that haue caused the Priestes and the people to renounce their obedience to their sworne Princes I thinke ye will not say these should be â–ª call out on durtie doonghils and yet their faulte is as much as the other it is to be feared least they shal be cast out into vtter darkenesse â–ª But ye do a little to much charge the Gréeke Priestes with the whole burden of this crime It was not onely they as Uolaterane saith but it was the whole nation as Baptist Egnatius writeth as is also noted in Laugus his margine Ex qua tuntam â—…nuidiam â–ª c. VVherevppon he gotte so great enuie of the Greeke notion that neither they performed the obsequies of the dead also denied him the place of his Sepulchre But you applie it onely vnto the Priestes that their superioritie might the more appeare For which purpose you direct all your tale to sette foorth their superioritie euen in such as ye call wicked and hereticall doings whereas the Princes claime is not for any such superioritie in wicked doings but onely in Godly and Christian causes Ye driue all the matter to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the holy Ghosts proceeding and to Andronicus cealing therein against the dealing of his Father In 〈◊〉 thus do the last editions of Nicephorus Printed at Paris 1562. and 1566. whether truely or no is doubtfull to say referre al to Andronicus and euer in the place of Emaâ—…el put Andronicus and for driâ—…ing away of the Turkes put in the anulling of the doings at Lions Councell Which sentence soeuer be the truer either the former which the Bishop followed or the later which you follow yet caÌ„ you not go so round away with the matter but that euen Michael which yéelded to the Pope mangre all his Priestes and made them perforce while he liued to acknowledge the Pope shewed therein a superioritie â—…uer them which I thinke ye will not call a tiranâ—…y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gaue it ouer to the Pope And his sonne in doing the contrarie euen in the Councell ye mention sheweth also a supreme dealing therein And that supreme dealing that you most stiffly denie to Princes to wâ—…te the calling of Councels the Patriarch did it not but the Prince 〈◊〉 as your selfe haâ—… confessed before that he after his Fathers death suâ—…moned a Councell of the Grecians And so sayeth Langus in the Margine of the Preface Imperatoriâ—… istius ductu c. By the guydance of this Emperour in the Councell the Easterne Bishops contrarie to the Westerne decreed that the holy Ghost proceeded onely from the Father But not long after by his Nephewe Iohn Paleologus being Emperour in the Synode at Florence holden in the yeere of the Lorde 1439. the Grecians accorded to the determination of the Latines in so much that they professed the holy Ghost to proceede from the Father and the Sonne when they were perswaded that the Latines beleeued God the Father to be the onely cause of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost and that they accursed the being of twoo beginnings or two causes in the consubstantiall Trinitie Which sentâ—…nce as it sheweth the 〈◊〉 to be called by the 〈◊〉 â–ª so it sheweth the cause of the Gréekes diâ—…ision 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 in this 〈◊〉 aboute which here and in your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…e make so much a do to haue bene rather of misunderstanding the one of the other than any such 〈◊〉 â–ª as ye here â—…o often charge them â—…aunder Niâ—…phorus reâ—…ite this Prince and afterwardes 〈◊〉 â—…o vs also And withall it sheweth that this controuâ—…rsie was not so much tho matter betweene them as was the reâ—…enting vnto the Popes obedience which the Greeke Church could neuer abide and to say the sooth they of all other had chiefe cause â–ª for the Pope was the chiefe ruine 〈◊〉 their Empirâ—… But to returne to my purpose In this Councell the Prince hath this point of supremacâ—…e that he sumâ—…oned and guided it â–ª which M â–ª Stapleton espying dareth not fully affirme â–ª that thiâ—… doing maketh â—…atly againste the Princes supremacie but he cometh fâ—…intly in with what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you 〈◊〉 And what if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shalt we 〈◊〉 haue larkes â–ª what 〈◊〉 â—…id â–ª phie on Deuill with his shifting if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thou be the 〈◊〉 of God. And what if it do not necessarily enduce the chiefe supeâ—… in all causes
horrible wauering But go to let it do so presuppose that the bishop alleaged no more but this one sentence or that all the other little or nothing further the cause Yet dothe this onely sentence fully comprehende as muche as this marginall note conteâ—…neth Yea set also aside the word supreme that master St. quarell is at that in so horrible wauering and errour in matters beginning to faynte and to perishe as it were with shipwracke the Prince is the mightie and very holy anker or stay Sacris simul prophanis both in holy and prophane matters Doth not this mightie stay onely or chiefly vnder God of the Prince for al kinde of persons agaynst errors playnely argue a soueraigne helping power or supremacie in repayring of religion beeing decayed But M. Stapl. letting goe all this girdeth onely at this worde supreme bicause the byshop translated suprema anchora not the laste anchor but supreme anchor Héere first he falleth out with a Cooper I can not tell whome for missinforming the byshop As though the interpretatioÌ„ of supremus were so high a poynte that the byshop muste be taught of some â–ª Grammarian or scholemaster the English therof And bicause it is not englished in good Englishe full scholemaster like he taketh vpon him to expounde the same For what other is sayth he suprema anchora in good English than the laste anchor the laste refuge the extreme holde and stay to rest vpon Be it euen as you would haue it M. Stap. And thankes be to God that when you haue nothing to say agaynst the bishops allegation this is your last anchor your last refuge and extreme stay to rest vpon to finde faulte with the byshops englishe for not good english Though héere neither you can proue any false englishing which is common with you and when you haue all done supremus is bothe laste and chiefe and which way soeuer ye conster it supremus is supreme take it howe you list Although in the very proper derâ—…uation of the worde supremus comming of supra signifieth the chiefe or hyest And that it is called laste is but accessorie and improperly spoken for properly vltimus is last or extreâ—… by reason that the last things as added for the most part vppermost and the last doings are commonly the chiefest But what neede contention here de laua caprina of a matter of nothing It were more fitte ye had reserued this your earnest answere to some earnest matter But as they say In refrigidissima feruâ—… in fâ—…entissima friges In the coldest matters you be boyling hoâ—…te and in the hottest matters you be key colde To auoyde therfore contention as ye ought not to controll the Bishops English being not false so am I for my parte content to admit your English and I thinke so will the Bishop toâ—… For setting aside your quareling it coâ—…th not hiâ—… but all in the ende commeth to one effect You say it signifieth the last anchor the last refuge the extreme holde and stay to rest vpon Uery well sayde M. St. 〈◊〉 is not that the chiefe which we must flée vnto holde stay and rest vpon when all other helpes do faylâ—… And so ye graunt the Prince vnder God to be the chiefest refuge and stay both to the lay and Clergie in all wâ—…rings of doctrine and errâ—… of Religion â–ª Is not this now asmuch as the Bishops note contained the Princes supremacie in restoring Religion decayed You exemplifiâ—… the matter thus As suprema verba do signifie the last wordes of a man in his last will as 〈◊〉 dies the last day supremum iudicium â–ª the last iudgement â–ª with a number of the like phrases â–ª True in déede M. St. but ye should withall remember â—…uen in these examples that the last will is the chiefest will and al the other former willes giue place to the last will. And the last day is the chiefest day and by a speciall prerogatiue called Dies Doâ—…ni the day of the Lorde and Dies magnus â–ª the great day And the last iudgement is the chiefest iudgement when all iudges shall be iudged and therefore God the father hath onely giuen it to Christ bicaâ—…se he is simply the chiefest of all And here in earth also he is the chiefest iudge that is last appealed vnto Thus M. St. your owne phrases fitte the Bishop well And as it doth in these so in this present phrase Suprema anchora say you Is the last anchor signifying the last hold stay as in the perill of teÌ„pest the last refuge is to cast anchor And is not this then also the chiefest refuge and stay In such a sense say you Nicephorus calleth his Emperour the last the mightie the holy anchor or stay so in horrible wauering and errour signifying that now by him they were stayed from the storine of schisme as from a storme in the sea by casting the anchor the shippe is stayed This is in déeâ—… M. St. the meaning of Nicephorus And do ye not sée what chiefe dealing it giueth aboue all other only to the Prince in the storme of a schisme or errour or other ecclesiasticall matter wauering is not the anchor in a storme the chiefest and most principall stay doth any thing stay the ship more or better than an anchor or is there any other ordinarie stay therof Then by your own expositioÌ„ the Prince is made here the chiefe the principal the only stay in such cases which fully coÌ„cludeth all the matter notwithstaÌ„ding al your scoffes therfore where ye coÌ„clude saying But by the metaphore of an anchor to conclude a supremacie is as wise as by the metaphore of a Cow to conclude a Saddle For aswell doth a saddle fit a Cow as the qualitie of an anchor resemble supremacie But by such beggerly shiftes a barren cause must be vpholded Ye haue sadled the Cow M. St. haÌ„dsomly ye are the fittest maÌ„ that I sée to ride vpoÌ„ hir for this coÌ„clusion sheweth you as wise a maÌ„ according to the old saying as euer spurred a Cow for admitting the metaphore of an anchor no further than your selfe haue sayed that as by it the ship is stayed froÌ„ stormes in the seas so by the Prince all the people are stayed froÌ„ Schisme wauering errours in religion if the anchor be the chiefest stay next to Gods help in the one is not the Prince the chiefest stay next to Gods helpe in the other although therfore ye â—…elie the B. to say he concluded only therevpon for before ye sayde he concluded on the worde Suprema which he did not neither but on all the whole allegacions altogither yet holdeth this conclusion euen by your owne sayings better I â—…row than you will holde on your sadled Cowes backe as fit a rider as ye be except ye sit the faster that the Cow cast not a calfe as bigge as M. St. As for the B. shifts what they are what beggerly shifts they are
doth Nicephorus ouer the Priestes the Bishops and the whole Church acknowledge in this Emperour for their reformation as he saith so nere as â—…e could to the primatiue Church Which notwithstanding as it was not true in this errour so was it not I graunt also in diuerse other corruptions agréeing some of them with the dregges of Poperie Yet for all this he that sayth Nicephorus sayth so neither lieth on him nor therevpon fauouâ—…eth their errours And he that sayth so in this poynt of the princes supreme dealing and deliuering of the Grecians from that Thraldom to the Pope into the which Michaell perforce had brought them shall not onely say true in saying Nicephorus sayth so but also that therein Nicephorus or any other so saying sayth therein most true he reformed religion to the purenesse thereof But nowe that master Stapleton will haue the Bishop clapped on the back for an Heretike against the holy ghost for shewing onely Nicephorus wordes who shall clappe on the backe Lazius Langus and all the doctours of Paris and Louaine for setting out allowing and approuing this authour to be verie Catholike in all poynts not making any exception of Heresie at all If there be any vpright iudgement in your selfe master St. let vs see you roll in your rayling rhetorike and rore agaynst them Go clap them on the backe and say patrisas and ye dare Ye might so be clapped your selfe by the héeles or haue a fagot clapped on your shoulders if ye did to teach you to kéepe your clattering clapper better in your heade Your second part is somwhat better directed to the allegation of the Bishop out of S. Paule with Chrysostomes and Cyrils iudgement therevpon Which you say is needelesse and farre from the matter c. That prosperitie of the common welth and true religion springeth from good regiment or Magistrates which we denie not say you and that the decay of religion destroyeth or deadly weakeneth the other which is also true Iâ—… ye graunt these to be true master Stapleton bowe chaunce in your marginall notes and store of vntruthes ye quarell so sore thereat There ye say there is no such words in Saint Paule and say This would be noted how ye racke S. Paule he nameth not religion at all he doth not attribute religion to the rule and gouernment of the ciuill Magistrate but peace and tranâ—…llitie onely in godlynesse Thus ye chalenge the Bishop there for falsehoode â—…nd racking How truly shall appeare in the aunswere to your bederoll of vntruthes Only now I note yoâ—… vnconstant dealing For here ye denie it not but say it is â—…rue all that the Bishop hath sayd thereon and graunt the â—…e as not preiudiciall to your cause But marke M. Stap. what here ye graunt and confesse to be true That prosperitie of the common welth and true religion springeth from the good regiment of Magistrates If this be so as ye say then the Princes regiment and direction in both these next vnder God is simplie the principall is the fountaine of them both And as the ouersight direction and chiefe authoritie of setting forth the one so the ouersight direction and the chief authoritie of setting forth the other floweth from the Prince if either of those do spring from him For howe can that spring from him whiche ye neyther make to bée deriued by anie meanes from him nor he to haue any direction or gouernement off nor anie taste rellishe care or â—…edling therewith as nothing belonging to him Is this to be a spring or fountaine of it Which syth ye graunte vnto the Prince whether wittingly or vnaduisedly I knowe not nor by what cautele ye â—…de to 〈◊〉 off the matter it is 〈◊〉 simplie to estaâ—… the Bishops 〈◊〉 and to 〈◊〉 your cause and 〈◊〉 your craftes with your owne plaiâ—…e words that here ye say it is true and ye will not denie it the prosperitie of the common weale and true religion springeth from the good regiment of Magistrates Whervpon it foloweth that not only true religion belongeth to their regiment out their regiment being a spring thereof hath a superioritie and iâ—… the heade as it were in direction and setting forth true Religion among their subiects as the spring hath a superioritie and is the heade in casting forth pure water into the brokes or riuers Thus ye sée master Stapleton that the Bishops allegation is so necessarie and nearâ—… to the matter that both it concludeth the question in hande and your selfe in the end are â—…ayne or of force driuen to yelde thereto in this poynt And vpon this dependeth the other poynt which ye graunt also to be true That the decay of Religion destroyeth or deadly weakeneth the other Wherein ye say weâ—…l Master Stapleton if ye graunt it to the purpose wherefore it is alleaged that these two thinges prosperitie and religion are necessarily â—…o be combined in a Prince whose regiment ye haue graâ—…ed to be a spring from whence both of these doe come For so not onely Saint Paule and Chrysostome expounding him Cyrill also meaneth but euen Nicephorus the authour last mentioned in the sayde Prince doth commende that felicitie and the true worship of GOD were so knitâ—…e in him that godlynesse by hir force had drawne felicitie to hiâ—… or rather GOD had ioyned and tempered them togither to the ende that by the helpe of bothe these hee might become both in deede a marueylous helpe and succour and also a steadie stay and firmament as it were to diuine oâ—… Ecclesiasticall matters beginning to fall away And to this purpose are these two so ioyned togither in the Prince that as the Bishop sayeth and you doe not gainesay thâ—… same The wante of the one especially of religion destroyth or deadly weakeneth the other Sith now therfore the B. and you agrée that these pointâ—… are true and howe nere eyther of these doe comprehende the matter in controuersie is apparant wherefore doe you in néedelesse examples and farre from the matter spende the time to prooue that which neither the Bishop nor you â—…enye As the vtter ruine say you of the Empyre of Greece proceeding from the manifolde heresies especially that whereof we haue discoursed doth to well and to plainly testifie And therefore I wold wishe you and maister Foxe with others but you two aboue all others with good aduisement to note that as the wicked Iewes that crucified Christ about the holy time of Easter were at the verye same time or thereabout besieged of the Romaines and shortlye after brought to such desolation and to such miserable wretched state as in a maner is incredible sauing that beside the foreseeing and foresaying therof by Christ there is extant at this day a true faithful report â–ª eueÌ„ so your dearlings the GreciaÌ„s whose error but not alone but accompanied with some other that you at this day stoutly defend yet especially rested in this heresie against the
ordering directing publike peace and iustice but also as much or rather much more most of all godlinesse true religioÌ„ Ecclesiastical matters and Ecclesiastical persons to liue blamelesse in their spirituall vocations so well as the laytie to liue in peace and iustice And that in al these points the Prince is the knitting togither iointurâ—… of the one so well as of the other Which flatly argueth that the direction and preseruing of both causes persons next vnder God doth appertaine to his gouernment being both knit alike to his authoritie What false dealing what blearing of eyes hath the Bishop here vsed hauing faithfully set downe the Emperours owne wordes which as they fully shew Theodosius his minde so they fully proue the present question conclude the Princes supreme authoritie so well in Ecclesiasticall matters as in temporall To all this master Stap. thought best to answere not one worde but to let it goe telling vs that the Emperours sayings or doings serue nothing for our pretensed primacie and that this is wandring in an ob scure generalitie This may well be called a Counterblast M. Stap. If this be sufficient answere to the bishops allegation let others iudge Ye complayne it is obscure it may perchaunce so appeare to your eyes bleared with affection or rather blinded with wilfulnesse So is the Gospell obscure to those that would not sée and the sauour of death to those that perish Cleare light is noysome to dimme sights Euery body saue you and suche as are bleared by you may easily sée a farre off the playnnesse of these proues Nowe where ye say he wandreth in an obscure generalitie wherof can not be enforced any certayne particularitie of the principall question Otherwhiles M. St. ye coÌ„playne of particularities require the B. to proue generalities or else ye crie it commeth shorte Héere the Bishop hauing proued this generalitie by your owne confession nowe you quarell at generalities I perceiue nothing will content a froward brabbler but any other that liste not to quarell will soone perceiue that this generalitie that ye complayne of bothe comprehendeth the particulars also satisfieth that that ye call so often for to proue a supreme gouernemeÌ„t ouer all ecclesiastical matters in general which fully answereth euen to the othe likewise Neuerthelesse sith you would slip away by wandring about particulars This Epistle of the Emperour sheweth his supreme direction and gouernment euen in particulars and that principall particulars also This Epistle béeing directed from the foresaide Emperours to Cyrillus a chiefe ecclesiasticall Prelate and Patriarche of Alexandria after the Emperours as is before sayde haue declared this their generall care and gouernment â–ª so well ouer ecclesiasticall matters as temporall But when say they to Cyril we vnderstoode both by our loue to God and our mynd louing hys truthe that these thinges mighte bee obteyned in those that are godly wee haue nowe often thought it very necessarie by reason of those thinges that haue happened luckyly to haue a Synode moste deare vnto God of those moste holy Bishoppes whiche bee euery where c. And so shewing the cause of their delaye and the necessitie of the Ecclesiasticall matters they commaunde Cyrill with other Bishoppes not to fayle buâ—… be readie at Ephesus at Whytsontide nexte following For saye they the Copies of the same Synode are already sente out from oure Maiesties to the bishoppes beloued in GOD throughout all the Metropolitane Cities that thys beeing doone bothe the trouble whiche hathe happened on these controuersies be dislolued according to the ecclesiasticall rules and those thinges corrected that are vnseemely committed And that godlynesse maye be towardes God and profitable establishement to publique matters Neither let any thyng be seuerally innouate in any matter of any person before the holy Synode and the common sentence of it to come And we are fully persuaded that euery one of the Priestes moste deare to God both forbicause of the ecclesiasticall and publique matters beeing throughly moued by this our sanction or Edict will spedyly make haste towardes this councell with diligent endeuour and to their habilities consulte vpon these matters being so necessarie and apperteining to the good pleasure of god As for vs we hauing muche care of these things wil suffer no man lightly to be wanting neither shall he haue any excuse before God or before vs if any out of hande do not diligently appeare at the foresayde tyme in the place determined c. Thus euen in thys Epistle in particularities also doth Theodosius shewe his supreme authoritie But you will say these are not principall particulars the principall particulars are to dispute vpon the questions to resolue the doubtes to debate the matter and to indge and determine which parte is the truthe thereof These partes say you are the principall these partes belong not to the Prince but to the Priestes That these thinges master Sta belong to those that for their function haue the knowledge and profession of them no man denieth no more than that lawyers shoulde haue the lyke debating trying and determining the truthe of any doubte in the lawe But this nothing hindreth the Princes supreme authoritie and gouernement in his lawes no more dothe it in the debating trying and determining doubtes in any ecclesiasticall matters in the discussing wherof the Prince is ignoraunt debarre his supreme authoritie and gouernment in all suche cases debated or defined These doings therfore though they be the principall in respect of the examining of suche doubtes yet in respects of the ordering directing disposing setting them out and maynteyning them the Princes dooinges are farre more principall particulars As when a doubte in the lawe aryseth to call all the Lawyers togither highe and lowe what estate soeuer they bee off to appoynte them the place and tyme of meeting where and when to directe and order their assemblie and what they haue iudged to be the lawe therein to ratifie and allowe it to sette it foorthe and maynteyne it this dooing theweth the Prince to be the supreme gouernour in all Laive matters thoughe he neyther debate nor determine the truthe thereof Sithe therefore Theodosius dyd thus muche as this that is héere shewed and as that héereafter to whiche ye referre your selfe shall further declare this is inoughe to argue hys supreme gouernement in all Ecclesiasticall matters euen by these particulars If all this proue no supremacie why graunt ye not thus muche to Princes nowe that ye sée these Emperours had then howe chaunce your Pope wyll neither suffer the Emperours nowe to summon a Councell to cite and call the Bishops togither to assigne them a place whereto they shal resort and kéepe their Councell to appoynte the time to méete and begin their Councell in Howe chaunce your Pope will not suffer Princes in their seuerall dominions to haue the like synodes but will do all either generall or Prouinciall by him selfe or by
and correct all maner of persons for al maner of heresies schismes and offences in Christian religion This is inough M. St. for your part to grauÌ„t the Prince thus much Nay soft ye say you I graunt this but with a perchaunce What doth so waightie a matter hang by so rotten a thread Nay I graunt not this perchauÌ„ce neither say you but in some condition This goeth hard with Princes M. St. to stand at this smal reuersion But go to let vs see how many Princes visite reforme and correct all maner persons heresies schismes and offences What is the condition ye wil make Forsooth the condition is this looke what maner lawes and decrees the Priests will make the Prince shall only confirme them by outwarde execution of them Looke what maner persons the priests do say are heretikes â—…chismatikes and offenders the Prince shall execute them with the sworde and kill them Looke what maner religion doctrine and doings the Priests and Bishops shall in their Councels both generall and nationall decrâ—… to be heresie schisme and offence the Prince shal roborate fortifie and streÌ„gthen them And this is the only sense sayth M. St. that I meane that they should visite reforme and correct all maner persons heresies schismes and offences in Christian religion Why M. Stapl. this sense and this graunte are quite contrarie the one to the other The Prince shall visite reforme and correct all maner of persons heresies schismes and offences that is to say he shall not visite reforme nor correct any maner of person for any maner of all these things but the Priest shall do it and he shall onely be the Priestes slaue and executioner Well sayth M. Stap. be it as be may construe it as ye will this is the onely some sense that we may graunt it in and in none other sense And this in Christian Princes is not denied but commended Is not héere a proper graunt to Princes and is not master Stap. to be commended for this some sense of christian Princes gouernment But who is so senselesse that he seeth not in this sense that the Prince hath no gouernement at all but is made a very slaue to the Popish priests authoritie And in this some sense coulde master Stapl. finde in his heart to acknowledge a gouernement to the Queenes maiestie and yet not without a perchaunce neither But without perchaunce master Stap. your sense sheweth what good harte ye beare hir Maiestie and all other christian Princes Now that M. Stap. hath thus chalenged the state which the bishop framed and yet graunteth with a perchaunce thereto in some sense which sense is as you haue heard he taketh vpon him to set downe the true state of the question in hande and prefixeth these words in his margine The state of the question and so procéedeth saying But the question is here nowe whether the Prince or lay magistrate may of him selfe and of his own princely authoritie without any higher eccl. power in the Church within or without the Realme visite reforme and correct and haue all maner of gouernment and authoritie in all things causes eccl. or no. As whether the Prince may by his own supreme authoritie depose and set vp Bishops and priests make iniunctions of doctrine prescribe order of Gods seruice enact matters of religioÌ„ approue and disproue articles of the faith take order for administration of Sacraments commaund or put to silence Preachers determine doctrine excoÌ„municate and absolue with such like which al are causes eccl. and al apperteyning not to the inferiour ministerie which you grauÌ„t to Priests and Bishops only but to the supreme iurisdiction and gouernment which you do annexe to the Prince only This I say is the state of the question now present For the present question betweene you and M. Feck is grounded vpon the othe comprised in the statute which statute emplieth and concludeth all these particulars I had thought séeing your earnestnesse M. St. when ye came to meÌ„tioning the statute that we should haue herd all these things that ye haue thus as it were on your fingers endes particularly named expressed in the statute But wheÌ„ al coÌ„meth to al ye knit vp the matter with this which statute implyeth concludeth al these particulars But I sée you employ your selfe like your self stil to false coÌ„clusions And such as your coÌ„clusions are such are your proues You pretende here after ye haue controlled the B. to set down the true state of the questioÌ„ But as ye played in the beginning so ye holde out rubbers euen to the ending Ye are stil the same man that cried out of short wide shoting hauing set vp new markes of your owne making by this doing both to defeate the bishops profes also to deceiue the reader Ye would fayne driue all to the othe and make the othe the present question And why so bicause say you the present question is grounded on the othe True in déede bothe the present question and all other questions about this controuersie and the issue also agréed vpon betwéene these parties is grounded as ye say vpon the oth And bicause the present question is grounded theron it is a good argument against you that the oth is not theÌ„ the present questioÌ„ bicause the present questioÌ„ is grouÌ„ded theron a question is not grounded on it selfe Ye shoulde haue marked that though the originall be of the othe yet both the issue the present questioÌ„ in haÌ„d being by degrées deducted from thence make nowe an other state To the which to this issue if the bishop satisfie ye can not iustly chaleÌ„ge him any further As for that state of the question that you set downe and the particulars thereof that ye say are implyed and concluded in the statute that all those things are apperteining not to the inferiour but to the supreme iurisdiction and gouernment that ye say we annexe to the Prince only al these are your most manifest vntruthes slanders nor ye can finde them either specified emplyed concluded comprised or any wayes to be ment in the othe or in the statute or in any parte therof Neither the othe or the statute giue al maner of gouernment and authoritie in all things and causes ecclesiasticall to the Prince but ascribe to the Prince the supreme gouernment and authoritie in al things and causes ecclesiasticall True it is that supreme gouernement is aboue ouer them but yet the one is not the other supreme gouernment is not all maner of gouernment Neither bothe the othe or the statute either in wordes or effect of wordes ascribe to this the Princes supreme gouernment the making of Priests and Bishops the making iniunctions of doctrine the determining of doctrin the approuing or disprouing articles of the faith excommunicating and absoluing the preaching of the worde and the administration of Sacramentes Where fynde ye any of these things so muche as to be gathered out
of the othe or statute Why say you they all appertaine not to the inferiour ministerie whiche ye graunt to Priests and Bishops only but to the supreme iurisdiction and gouernement which you doe annexe to the Prince only In déede these thinges you make to appertayne to youre Pope to whome ye giue such supreme iurisdiction and gouernement as annexeth all this to his papal authoritie But ye doe wickedly herein and iniurie to our sauiour Christe to whom only such supreme iurisdiction and gouernment belongeth and vnder whome the inferiour ministers maye do these things not as they please but as he hathe prescribed them The Iurisdiction and authoritie appertaineth onely to ministers bishops or priestes as ye call them To whome herein we doe not as ye sclaunder vs graunt only an Inferiour ministerie but euen an higher ministerie than wée giue to Princes In their spirituall ministration they are higher ministers but in gouerning them ouerséeing them directing punishing maynteyning placing or displacing them as they shall do their dueties well or yll the Prince therein is higher than they and his gouernement vnder God is supreme and chiefe in all suche causes as belongeth to the Ecclesiasticall persons or any other in his territories This is that the statute ascribeth and the othe requireth farre from youre malicious and sclaunderous slate of the question that you haue here deuised Whiche as ye say the truthe therein the Bishop proueth not for it is no part for him to proue But that this is the â—…slue he fully preueth Yea and proueth the full contentes of the Othe also to the whyche ye woulde so fayne driue the question nowe in hande After ye haue thus sette vp a false and wrong state and quarelled at the verie state of the question in hande playnly and truely set downe by the Bishop ye enter into your second part wherin prefixing an other marginal note Master Hornes dissembling falsehood ye chalenge the B. to omit two clauses of the statute the one at the beginning therof the other at the ende The former is this That no foraine person shall haue any maner of authoritie in any spirituall cause within this realme By whiche wordes is flatly excluded saye you all the authoritie of the whole bodie of the Catholike Churche without the realme as in a place more conuenient towardes the ende of the laste booke it shall by Gods grace be euidently proued If that be a place more conuenient why doe ye anticipate it here not so conueniently where it appertayneth not to the question in hand The Bishop now medleth not with that parcell that excludeth all foraine authoritie but onely with that parte that expresseth what manner of authoritie it is that the Quéenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir And this the Bishop playnely and faithefully dothe not here intermedlyng with other pointes of the statute But where that conuenient occasion is there ye shall sée the Bishop touch that that here ye call for And there a Gods name answere hym if ye can But your fingers itched ye coulde not holde youre hande but néedes ye muste euen nowe haue a fling thereat for a farewell Althoughe therein ye proprely ouertourne youre selfe and yet to make somewhat of the matter yée playe all the false playe yée can For where the Statute mencioneth onely anye forraine persone to haue no authoritie you conclude that it excludeth all the authoritie of the whole bodye of the Catholike Churche withoute the Realme Where as there the Statute mencioneth not the catholike Churche at all And besides who séeth not a great difference betwéene these twayne any persons authoritie and the whole bodies authoritie And who séeth not withall that if England be a parcell and membre of the whole bodie of the Catholike Churche of Christe and all the membres make one vnited bodie then neither is the whole bodie foraine to the members thereof nor the particular membres foraine to the whole bodie Nor in déede any parte of this mysticall bodie is excluded But in that respect that one countreyman is foraine to an other suche foraine authoritie of any foraine person is thereby excluded But in regarde of the bodye of the Catholike churche if ye meane Christes holie Catholike Churche there is neyther Iew nor Gréeke Scythian nor Barbarian nor any forayne Countreyman we are no straungers and forainers but Citizens of the Saintes and of the householde of God and all compacte in Christe nor any is excluded oute of this Churche if he be in and of this Churche bycause he is not forayne And where ye saye the whole bodie of the Churche without the Realme youre wordes implie a contradiction to themselues For if the realme be a parcell of the bodie of the churche whiche perchaunce you will denye or if the realme be a parcell of the bodie of the Churche whyche you wyll not denie then that which is without the realme is not the whole bodie as ye call it But lettyng this goe what is that authoritie be it of the most part or be it as you saâ—… of the whole bodie of the Churche without the realme that ye would haue the realme allowe If it be the verie Catholike church of Christe then is it also the wyfe and spouse of Christ and hath no authoritie to make any faith doctrine or religion besides that hir husband hath appointed neyther England Fraunce Germanie Italy Spayne or any other parte or all the whole bodie of this spouse hath authoritie to doe it And looke what parte doth not this or presumeth to doe otherwise becommeth foraine and as foraine is cut off euen as a rotten and putrified member seuered from the bodie Euery braunche sayth Christ that beareth not fruite in me my father will cut it away But if this authoritie be for such ecclesiastical discipline as Christ hath giuen therof no expresse coÌ„maundement then euery seuerall part may receyue or not receyue the same and yet is not estranged or made forrain from the whole corps of Christendome yea though the most parte of the churche besides authorised and vsed the same But euery particular Churche hath in it selfe authoritie to establish orderly suche disciplines as shall be thought best and fittest for their estate and yet is there no diuision or schisme from the whole thereby But sith ye referre your selfe to a more conuenient place where ye say it shall by Gods grace be euidently proued it is not much conuenient to stand any more hereon sith it is here but accessorie and ye confesse your self that ye doe not but ye will hereafter by Gods grace proue it euidently But I doubt me of two things the one of your euident prouing therof the other that ye will doe the same by the grace of God the dooing wherof is agaynst the grace of God. The other clause saye you you omitte at the ende of the statute whiche is this That all maner superiorities that haue or may lawfully be exercised
the truth in this poynt and in so manie other Where in yée shew your selfe not onely discontented subiectes but in heart verie rebellions nor repining onely with discontented stomackes but with open sayings writings and other seditions attemptes agaynst the obedience ye owe to our gracious Prince and Countrey Ye call hir gracious but God defende hir gracious person from your vngracious practises and from all such Iudas kisses of hollow hearted flattring Papistes For howe vngraclously ye minde hir highnesse and your Countrey all that heare your sugred wordesnowe speaking as though that butter would not melt in your mealy mouth and read your common place withall collected of your most shamefull and notorious slaunders that ye rayse vpon so gracious a prince and your natiue Countrey would meruayle how that dubble tongue of yours coulde speake such contraries But ye are a Merchant for the nonce ye studie Louaine diuinitie that is to say to beare fire in one hand water in another to laugh in ones face and strike him with a dagger to the heart as Ioab did with Abner and Amasa But let vs sée how trimly ye cloke this geare I dare say neuer a Frier in Louaine can play the sinoother hypocrite For besides say you that we ought absolutely to obey God more than man and preferre the truth which our sauiour him selfe protesteth to be encouraging all the faythfull to professe the truth and giuing them to wit that in defending that they defende Christ himselfe before all other worldly respectes whatsoeuer What a godly pretence of zeale is here to God were it not for pure loue they heare to God master Stapleton promiseth for them as theyr spokes man they would obey their Prince Nowe surely this séemeth to procéede of an holy zeale But what is that they meane here by this absolute obedience to God God may be absolutely obeyed and the Prince also next to God conditionally be obeyed as the chiefe setter foorth of Gods absolute obedience God in his holie worde neuer spake any thing against obedience to the Prince whereby any Hypocrite might pretende a scruple of disobeying God if next vnder God he obeyed his Prince but God in his worde commaundeth vs so to obey him What meane they then to alleage God for theyr disobedience Forsooth here is a mystery ye must vnderstande by God the Pope for so he is called Dominus deus noster Papa Our Lorde God the Pope ▪ and their obedience to the Prince herein is flatte agaynst this Gods obedience And bicause master Stapleton and his fellowes are priests of this Gods making they must therefore disobey theyr Prince And this is the very matter So Thomas Becked died for Gods cause and what was that forsooth the franchisies of the Popes Church For all that is for the Pope and Popery and the Popish priests honours is only for God for Christ and for the truth when it is for the Deuill as soone as indéede it is for him the Authour of all such hypocriticall disobedience and for their owne filthie lucre But God is a good God he must beare the name of all ▪ The Papistes being thus by theyr Attourney master Stapleton excused of theyr Disobedience least this shoulde not be thought sufficient There is yet behinde one other proper waye of excusing themselues and that is to fall in accusing the Bishop that therby the papists may be thought the more excusable Beside all this I say sayth master Stapleton whosoeuer will but indifferently consider the matter shall see that M. Horne himselfe in specifying here at large the Queenes Maiesties gouernment by the statute intended doth no lesse in effect abridge the same by dissembing silence than the Catholikes doe by open and plaine contradiction Ye charge the B. here with abridging the Queenes Maiesties gouernement by dissembling silence This is your former quarrell M. Stap. yet could ye hitherto proue nothing omitted concerning the verie gouernment it selfe and therefore ye wrangled about other clauses of debarring the gouernement from any foreine person and of vniting the gouernment to the crowne of Englande which bicause the B. set not downe as parcels of the gouernment which ech man séeth are none ye chalenge him of dissembling silence and do as one that either hath nothing else to saye or that this is some such notable triumph that ye thought good to end your first booke therewith as it were a gyrde to the Bishop and a pricke fastened in the Readers minde to cause him mislyke of the Bishops dealing and suspect the whole cause thereby This indéede were somewhat oratorlyke if it were not so apparant an vntruth that euery body might behold the falshood therof the malice of you and the impertinencie of the quarrell But as you thereby are able crie it out as fast and as lowde as ye will to proue nothing in word or déede against the Bishop and therefore run to byous quarrels of silence and abridging in effect so your selfe while ye would excuse your selfe as not discontented nor repining subiectes accuse your selfe without any dissembling at all And are not ashamed to confesse that ye withstande hir Maiesties gouernment by open and plaine contradiction Though therefore your accusation of the Bishop be to any indifferent man to consider the matter no excuse of your disobedience yet any that shall indifferently consider the matter yea though he were som what partiall on your side sith so openly and plainely ye dare open your contradiction thereto will holde you altogither vnexcusable and iudge you on your owne mouth But let vs sée why ye are thus importune with the Bishop to accuse him so often nowe in the ende of this booke whether ye haue any newe matter to lay to his charge that ye haue not yet vttred how truly ye accuse him For say you whereas the statute and the othe to the which all must sweare expresseth a supreme gouernment in all things and causes without exception M. Horne taking vpon him to specifie the particulars of this generall decree and amplifying that little which he giueth to the Queenes Maiestie with copie of wordes full statutelike he leaueth yet out and by that leauing out taketh from the meaning of the statute the principall cause ecclesiasticall ▪ And what is that you aske forsooth iudgement determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise For what is more necessarie in the Church than that the supreme gouernour thereof shoulde haue power in all doubtes and controuersies to decide the truth and to make an ende of questioning this in the statute by M. Hornes silence is not comprised And yet who doubteth that of all things and causes ecclesiasticall this is absolutely the chiefest Why M. St. are ye nowe of a contrarie opinion to that if ye be remembred that ye were before for then ye reasoned that omission and silence was no deniall but concluded the contrarie Qui
tâ—…cet consentire videtur for he that holdeth his peace seemeth to consent Howbeit I crie you mercie the case is altered For there ye defend your client here ye oppugne your aduersarie And belike ye haue some priuiledge from Rome euer to turne the matter so as may best serue your turne But and it were not for this your priuiledge surely I woulde further aske ye howe chaunce so soone ye haue forgotten your late vaunt and euen in this leafe wherin ye crake that ye walke not in generall wordes but restrayne your selfe to particulars now stande quarrelling about the generall words of the statute and mocke the B. for particulars if ye shalâ—… laye forth your priuiledge to doe this when ye thinke ye may get some aduauntage thereby yet I thinke your priuiledge stretcheth not both to wrest the state of the question in hande and of the issue to the statute and to wrest and belâ—…e the statute as ye please and thereof to gather what false conclusion ye lyst For first ye do the Bishop wrong â—…th Maister Feckenham hath set vp his issue to be prooued Anye suche gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes to driue the bishop from thence to the wordes of the statute that expresse it in all ecclesiasticall causes Herein ye offer the bishop wrong For by this issue betwéene them though the Bishop in euery Prince continually alleage not ensamples in euery Ecclesiasticall cause but nowe and then in all nowe and then in some for your Popes daily encroched on Princes and at length got the mâ—…st of all yet hath the Bishop proued and satisfied the vertue of this issue Any such gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes Howbeit ye do him further wrong to chalenge him here for leauing out any poynt of gouernment in any Ecclesiasticall cause that euen the statute giueth hir maiestie that is to say A supreme gouernement in all things and causes Doth not the bishop set downe this M. St hath he not specified euen the same wordes oftentimes already and doth not his particular specifications coÌ„teine as much here also Nâ—… say you he leaueth out the principall cause ecclesiasticall and most necessarie meete and conuenient for a supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall Soft M. St. stay here or euer we demaund what this cause should be I demaunde only now why ye say supreme gouernour Ecclesiasticall is this your honestie in handling the statute doth the Quéene take vpon hir to be a supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall or doth the statute giue this title to hir maiestie A supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall the statute saith A supreme gouernor in all Ecclesiastical causes â–ª And is there no differeÌ„ce betwene an ecclesiastical gouernor a gouernor in eccles causes but you vse this your false captious speach to make that people beleue the slaÌ„der that ye raise on hir Maiesty as though she toke vpon hir to bean ecclesiasticall person to be a B. and a minister of the worde sacraments and by hir chiefe gouernmeÌ„t ouer bishops chalenged to be a chief or head bishop of Bishops like vnto your Pope And so hauing raised vp this slauÌ„der on the Quenes maiestie the statute ye chalenge the Bishop for omitting a principall ecclesiastical cause But what is that you aske forsooth iudgement say you determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise Here againe M. Stapl. ye speake as captiously for if by this iudgement ye meane an authoritie aboue the doctrine of Gods worde as all your side maintaineth that the word of God receyueth his authoritie of the Churches iudgement â–ª which Church ye call the Priestes and is authenticall bicause they haue ratified it so to be otherwise it were not true nor good then in déede as the Bishop hath set downe no such iudgement determining or approuing of doctrine neyther so coulde he haue done for the Quéenes Maiestie â—…keth no such supreme gouernement vpon hir nor such supreme gouernement is due to any other than to God alone who hath by Iesus Christ his sonne already fully determined in his holy worde what doctrine is good and true â–ª And what doctrine soeuer is besides that is neyther true nor good whosoeuer take vpon him to iudge determine and approue the same be it eyther your Pope or your Church neuer so much yea were it an angell from heauen â—…e must 〈◊〉 helde accursed But if ye meane by iudging determining and approuing of doctrine such authority as only acknowledgeth giueth testimonie admitteth alloweth setteth forth and strengthneth the doctrine of Christes onely worde not aâ—… ruler ouer it but as seruant vnto it and the reiecting or abolishing of all other doctrine against or besides that wordâ—… then hath the bishop not left out this ecclesiasticall cause in the statute though not iudging in that maner that the ecclesiasticall gouernour Bishop or Minister doth in his sermons or debating thereon but for so much as belongeth to a supreme gouernour And so sayth the bishop The gouernment that the Queenes Maiestie most iustly taketh on hir in ecclesiasticall causes is the guiding caring prouiding ordering directing and ayding the eccl. state within hir dominions to the furtherance maintenance and setting foorth of true religion buitie and quietnesse of Christes Church visiting reforming restrayning amending and correcting all maner persons with all maner errours superstitions heresies schisâ—…es abuses offences contempts and enormities in or about Christes religion whatsoeuer Marke these words a little better M. Stap. and I trust you shall sée it was you that ouershot your selfe and lefte out good attention béeing caried away in a cocke brayne â—…ume with too hastie a preiudice And that the bishop left out héere no part of such iudgement determination and approuing of doctrine which is true and good which is otherwise as belongeth to suche a supreme gouernour as groundeth himselfe on Gods iudgement â–ª determining and approbation What do ye thinke is true religion no good doctrine with you If it be the bishop hath not omitted it Can he care and prouide for it direct and set it foorth without iudgement without the determining of it to be good and true without the approbation of it On the other side are errours and heresies no false nor naughtie doctrine with you if they be then the bishop named them and thinke ye the visiting reforming restrayning amending and correcting can be without a iudgement and determination agaynst them Then sithe he in playne spéeche ascribeth all this to the Prince which fully answereth all this that ye call for if as I sayd ye vnderstande this iudgement determining and approuing a right ye shewe what a very continuall wrangler ye be where no cause at all is giuen But incontinent ye declare what ye meane by this iudgement of doctrine For what say you is more necessarie in the Churche than that the supreme gouernour therof shoulde haue power in all doubtes and controuersies to decide the truthe and
to make an ende of questioning This in the statute by master Hornes silence is not comprised True in déede M. Stapl. this kinde of iudgement is not mentioned by the Bishop â–ª but it is moste falsly mentioned by you For where ye say this in the statute moste maliciously ye slaunder the statute for this in the statute is neither named comprised or can be gathered thereon Neither the Quéenes Maiestie claymeth or taketh on hir this kinde of iudgement It is due onely to Gods worde and your Pope and popishe Churche violently snatcheth it from Gods worde chalenging it to them selues euen aboue Gods worde it selfe although they agrée not héerein togither For the popishe Churche will be aboue the Pope in thys poynt of iudgement maugre his bearde and yet they graunt the Pope to be their supreme gouernour ecclesiasticall Though they will not relent to him this supreme iudgement but giue it to the Churches iudgement And therefore they be of a contrarie iudgement to you that say this poynt is moste necessarie meete and conuenient for a supreme gouernour ecclesiastical By which poynt you wil make your Pope either no supreme gouernour eccl ouer you or spoyle him of a most necessarie meete and couenient poynt of the supreme gouernment that ye giue him but these are your iarres agrée as ye wil like cats in a glitter about theÌ„ This popish churches or papall iudgement the Q. Maiestie taketh not vpon hir nor the statute ascribeth it vnto hir and therefore the B. had nought to do therewith Yet haue we one thing more which after a couple of your slauÌ„ders that I answere not but referre to your common place thereon ye charge the Bishop once more for this omission Agayne say you preaching the worde administration of the sacraments bynding and loosing â–ª are they not things and causes eccl How then are they heere omitted by you master Horne or how make you the supreme gouernment in all causes to rest vpon the Queenes Maiestie if these causes haue no place there What should a man vse many words with suche a brabler who though he haue nought to say yet will neuer lâ—…e saying of that which is nought to purpose Ye have beene often inough and fully inoughe answered to this master St. if the Quéenes Maiestie taketh not these thinges vpon hir then the B. omitteth not any thing that hir highnesse taketh on hir in omitting these things Neither doth the â–ª sratute yéelde vnto hir the doing of them It is but your slaunderous obtruding of the statute It giueth a supreme gouernmeÌ„t in al these things to the Q. Maiestie And so these causes haue place there so farre as is néedful to a supreme gouernour But from a supreme gouernour which consisteth in caring for ordering directing prouiding guyding maynteining setting foorth to the executing doing preaching and administring of those things is as farre from any good conclusion as you your matter are farre from truthe and honestie Neuerthelesse such is your great coÌ„fidence in this your Counterblast as though ye had so puft vp the falshood therof that no man could espie it ye lustely blowe vp the last blast of this your first booke saying VVhich is nowe better I appeale to all good consciences playnly to maynteine the truthe than dissemblingly to vphold a falsshod playnly to refuse the othe so generally conceiued than generally to sweare to it beeing not generally meaned â–ª But nowe let vs see how M. Horne wyll direct his proufes to the scope appoynted Why may not you appeale to all good consciences M. Stap. as well as that mayden Priest of yours that mighte bidde his maydenhead Goodmorrowe and haue as good a conscience for your owne parte as he for his parte had a maydenhead And to shew your good conscience for a farewell while ye shake handes at the very parting ye lash â–ª out a couple of slaunderous vntruthes togither Ye haue not many words to speake and therfore ye huddle them vp You say the othe is conceiued so generally that it giueth to the Prince your foresayde absolute power of determining all doubts and controuersies of preaching the worde administration of the sacraments bynding and loosing This lie to lappe vp all in the ende was worthe a whetstone M. Stapl. and his fellowe that iutteth with him chéeke by chéeke is as good as he That the othe generally conceyued is not generally meaned But set aside your malitious meaning to wrest the othe and the othe is playne and all one bothe in wordes and meaning But howe soeuer the othe were not so generally conceiued your meaning is playnely to refuse the othe And therefore héere in the ende for a remembraunce to all the rest you must néedes strike vp the stroke with ala lia and desperatly without al dissembling for the matter vpholde a falshoode with falshoodes euen to the laste breathe Et fiunt nouissima illius hominis peiora prioris And the latter ende of that man is worsse than the beginning ¶ The answere to foure Chapters in Doctor Saunders seconde booke of the visible Monarchie of the Churche concerning the question here in hande of a Christian Princes supreme gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes First of the difference of both povvers the ciuill and Ecclesiastical in the original in the vse and in the end of eyther Secondly vvhether the Prince be the Supreme gouernour immediatly vnder Christ. Thirdly vvhether the Prince may iudge and define of ecclesiasticall matters Fourthly whether Bishops maye depose Princes from their estate and take from the realme their povver of electing their Prince if they differ in religion from their Bishops VVhich foure chapters I thought good here to answere vnto both bicause he is the last writer and chiefest novve of accompte among the aduersaries And these chapters aboue al other in his volume both draw neerest to the question of the Princes estate and shew vvithall the full drift of the Papists not only striuing agaynst the Princes supremacie but into vvhat extreme slauerie they vvould reduce all Christian Kinges and kingdomes The argument of the fyrst Chapter of the difference betweene the Ciuile and Ecclesiasticall Magistrate in the originall in the vse and in the ende of bothe MAster Saunders firste beginning with the original lconfesseth that both powers are of God but not both immediatly from God the ciuile power he granteth to be of God but by the lawe of Nations or the consent of people and other meanes of mans wit put betweene But streight he correcteth himselfe that some thing in the ciuill authoritie was reuealed immediatly from God yea Per multa in lege Mosaica diuinitus instituta suerunt verie manie things pertaining to the ciuill power were in Moses law ordeyned of God. And thus at the fyrst he speaketh contraries Herevpon he concludeth thus I thinke therfore it is agreed vpon among all men that the royal imperial power which at this day is exercised in
force of his royall power oâ—… else a woman also might bothe teache in the Churche and also remitte sinnes and baptise orderly and solemnly and minister the sacrament of thankesgiuing For sithe bothe by the lawe of nations it is receyued that a woman may be admitted to the gouernment of a kingdome and in Moses lawe it is written when a man shall dye without a sonne the enheritance shall passe to the daughter but a kingdome commeth among many nations in the name of enheritaÌ„ce And sithe Debora the Prophetesse iudged the people of Israell and also Athalia and Alexandra haue reigned in Iurie it appeareth playnly that the kingly right appertayneth no lesse to women than to men VVhich also is to be sayde of children bicause according to the Apostle the heire though he be a childe is Lorde of all And Ioas began to raygne when he was seuen yere olde and Iosias reigned at the eight yere of his age But a childe for the defecte of iudgement a woman for the imbecillitie of hir kinde is not admitted to the preaching of Gods worde or to the solemne administration of the Sacraments I permit not sayth the Apostle a woman to teache For it is a shame for a woman to speake in the Churche and the same Apostle sayth that the heire being a childe diffreth nothing from a seruant But it is not the ecclesiasticall custome that he which remayneth yet a seruaunt shoulde be a minister of the Churche Sith therefore in the right of a kingdome the cause is all one of a man of a woman and of a childe but of like causes there is like and all one iudgement but neither childe nor woman and therevpon neither man also that is nothing else but king can do those things in his kingdome which of other ministers of the churche of God are necessarily to be done therfore it commeth to passe that neither the same king can rightly be called the supreme gouernour and head of the Church wherin he liueth All this long argument standeth stil on the foresayd principle that a supreme head or gouernour must be such a person as may do all the actions of all the offices belonging to all the parties gouerned But this is a false principle as alredy is manifestly declared therfore al this long driuen argument is to no purpose The Prince for all this may stil be the supreme head or gouernour ouer all Ecclesiastical persons so well as temporall in all their ecclesiasticall causes so well as in temporall although he himselfe can not exercise all ecclesiasticall functions nor doe himselfe all the ecclesiasticall actions of all ecclesiastical persons For else he might also be debarred of all supremacie ouer all ciuill and temporall persons in all their ciuill and temporall causes bicause he can not himselfe exercise all the ciuil and temporall offices nor do himselfe all the ciuill and temporall actions of all the ciuill and temporall persons neyther And so shoulde â—…e cleane be debarred from supremacie in either power nor haue any supreme gouernment at all Nowe taking this your false principle pro confesso â–ª after your wonted maner ye would driue vs to an absurditie as ye suppose by bringing in more examples of a woman and a chyld reasoning thus A pari from the like A woman and a child may be as well a supreme gouernor as may a man and hath as good right thereto But a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes Ecclesiasticall Ergo A man can not be a supreme gouernour neither in causes Ecclesiasticall For to this conclusion the force of bothe the promisses naturally driueth the argument I know ye clap in a paire of parenthesis saying in your coÌ„clusion neither a man also that is nothing else but a king But sith these wâ—…r des ar neither in the maior nor the minor the coÌ„clusion is plain â–ª that a man can not be a Supreme gouernor in causes Ecclesiasticall And I pray ye then tell me who shall be the supreme gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes if neyther man woman nor chyld may be wherby are not only excluded ciuill Princes but youre Popes are debarred from it Pope Ioane and Pope Iohn also For if they vse that order in the election to haue a Cardinall féele that all be safe yf the Uersicle be sayde Testiculos habet howe can the quyre meryly syng in the responce Deo gratias If hée be founde to bée a man he can not be supreme gouernoure Maister Saunders therefore muste néedes mende thys argumente or else the Popes for whome he writes this boke wyl con him small thanks except that they be Eunuches But Master Saunders not marking the sequele of hys conclusion fortifieth the parts of his argument To confirme the maior A woman and a childe may be as wel a supreme gouernour as a man he citeth the lawe Num. 27. he citeth ensamples Debora Athalia and Alexandra for women For children he citeth the Apostle Gal. 4. and the ensamples of Ioas and Iosias But these proues are superfluous sith the controuersie is not on the maior but on the minor Which minor is the point in controuersie and denied of vs that a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes ecclesiastical To confirme this minor for a woman he alleageth that she can not be admitted to preache the woorde of God remit sinnes nor baptize orderly and solemnely nor administer the Lordes Supper bothe for the imbecillitie of hir kinde and for Saint Paules prohibition of teaching in the Church For a chyld he lykewise can not do the same things as well for defect of iudgement in his nonage as for Sainte Paules witnesse that he differs not from a seruant But the Churches vse is not for seruantes to doe these things and so not for children to do them Here for confirmation of his minor master Sanders rusâ—…s to his false former principle that if the woman the chyld be supreme gouernors in these things then muste they be able themselues to do these things But they cannot do these thinges themselues Ergo they can haue no supreme gouernmeÌ„t in them But this reason is alreadie taken away and therfore al this argumeÌ„t falles We graunt it is true that neither women nor children can do these things And therfore the Papistes are to blame that suffer women to bapatize and to saye or sing in theyr quyres theyr ordinarie seruice and reade the Lessons Wee graunte them also that no men neyther but suche as bée lawfully called therevnto maye themselues exercise and do these things but doth this fellow they may not therfore haue a gouernment ouer those that doo them in their orderly doing of them if this were true then take away all their gouernement ouer all lay persons and all ciuil causes too For neyther women can nor ought them selues to do all that men béeing their subiects can and ought to
beareth not in vayne or by some other bodily punishment may correct him if any man shall refuse to obey the Priestes sentence Therefore we denie not but that bothe before and about and after the Bishoply iudgement there are some partes of kinges but in the office of iudging kings can do more than can priuate men For either of them can bothe giue counsell and shewe what they thinke good but neither of them can define what the diuine or eccl. lawe declareth in that matter VVhiche thing thus declared let vs nowe come to the proofe of the matter it selfe All this then either néedeth none or little answere M. Saunders béeing barely anouched without any proofe to the whiche ye are not yet come but onely declare what ye will denie or graunt to Princes Your graunt we take and sée ye go not from it But will all your fellowes yea wyll your Pope him selfe graunt so muche that the Emperour shall by his authoritie appoynt the certayne place and day where and when the Bishops shal holde their Councels It was wont to be so in the olde time But will your Pope suffer this nowe and that kinges shall do the lyke in their kingdomes Nay M. Sauâ—…ders he will mislike of this and say ye graunt too large a thong of another mans leather howesoeuer you would by qualification eate your grauntâ—… agayne cleane contrarying your selfe ascribing no more to Princes than to priuate men And yet agayn you graunt that bothe of them may giue counsell and shewe what they thinke good in ecclesiasticall matters although they can not determine them Goe to master Saunders till you bring your proofes we will take this graunte also of your liberalitie that Princes may giue counsell and shewe what they thinke good A good manie of your side will not graunt so muche nor you but for a countenaunce sake neither Althoughe yée doe them open iniurie to compare them qualle beeing publique estates to priuate menne As for your determination of Gods law what you meane thereby when yée shewe your meaning playner we will aunswere to it Nowe to your proofes Master Saunders proofes in this Chapter kéepe this order first he alleageth the reasons for his partie Secondly he aunswereth oure obiections Hys firste reason is this Those things that are of God man can not dispose them otherwyse than if God gyue vnto them suche authoritie â–ª but the causes of faythe chiefly of all other are of GOD bycause faythe is the moste necessarie gyfte of GOD that no man can obtayne to him selfe by any force either of nature or arte the causes therefore of fayth can not be iudged of other than of them to whome God hath giuen that power I aunswere the partes of thys argument be true 〈◊〉 the conclusion noughte for there is more in the conclusion than in the premisses â–ª The conclusion shoulde haue 〈◊〉 Therefore 〈◊〉 can not dispose the causes of fayth otherwyse than if God giue them suche authoritie Howebeit we simply denie not M. Saunders conclusion but would haue him distinguish what he meanes by iudgeing 〈◊〉 he meane disposing causes of fayth otherwise than God hath already in his word disposed them or else his argumente hathe no sense nor sequele then the conclusion as it is not proued so is it apparant false Neyther giue we suche iudgement to Princes or to any other creature for suche power God hath giuen to none Althoughe the Popishe priestes falsly clayme suche power to dispose matters of fayth otherwyse than God disposed them But master 〈◊〉 will proue hys conclusion on thiâ—… wyse But God hath giuen suche power to certayne men and not at large to all Christian people Therefore none haue it but they The antecedent he proues from Saincte Paule Ephesians the fourth For God hathe ordeyned some Apostles other Prophets other Euangelistes other Pastors and Teachers to the ediâ—…ying of his mysticall body whiche is the Churche But other hee made as it were sheepe and lambes that they shoulde bee edifyed by their pastors and teachers and too whome their pastors shoulde attende that they should not be caried awaye with euerie blaste of doctrine by the subtiltie of man. I answere agayne as before If he meane by iudgeing â—…eaching with sounde iudgement it is true and this senâ—…ence well applyed but if he meane as his principall â—…roposition was whereon all dependes Disposing thinâ—…es of faythe otherwise Then wée denie the anteceâ—…ente and the conâ—…equence too As for thys sentence â—…roues no suche iudgement giuen to any of these persons but rather confutes it as not to edifie but to destroy and to be caried away by the subtiltie of men with euery blast of doctrine if men might dispose otherwise of fayth than God him selfe hath dispoâ—…ed Nowe vpon this sentence of S. Paule for Pastors be reasoneth thus But Pastors only iudge what is fit or not fit for the sheepe For to conclude that sheepe are indued with equal power to Pastors this were nothing else but to take away the differeÌ„ce that Christ hath set betweene the Pastors and the sheepe and the thinges that he hath distinguyshed to mingle and confounde them Kinges therefore and Magistrates if they be counted sheepe in the floâ—…ke of Christ as in deede sheepe they are iudge not togither with the Pastors The argument is thus made formall Pastors do onely iudge what is fit or not fit for the sheepe But Princes are not Pastors but sheepe of the flocke of Christ. Ergo Princes do not iudge what is fit or not fit for them The maior he proueth thus To conclude that the sheepe haue equall power with Pastors is nothing else but to mingle and confounde and take away the difference that Christ hath set betweene the Pastors and the sheepe But if Princes should iudge the sheepe should haue equall power Ergo For Princes to iudge were to mingle confound and take away the difference that Christ hath set betweene the Pastors and the sheepe First to the maior I answere he siftes the similitude of a shepherde and shéepe too narrowe For although in some resemblaunces it holde yet is it not simply true that the Pastor onely iudgeth what is fitte or not fitte for this kinde of sheepe He him selfe confesseth before and after agayne confesseth that the priuate man or Princes may giue counsell and priuate iudgement And S. Paule speaking not of the pastor but of the spiritual man that is of the sheepe of God sayth Spiritualis omnia iudicat the spiritual man iudgeth all thinges And Christe biddes the people beware of false prophets which can not be without iudgement Neyther is this sufficient proofe of the maior that he alleageth to contende that the sheepe hath equal power is to confounde Christes distinction Wée graunte this it were so But this wée denie that héereby the sheepe is made to haue equall power For the iudgement of the pastor is one thing
of Christe to haue so mightie a Realme as Englande or Fraunce to become Christian by this offer why is not this offer taken for sooth the B. refuseth it Is not here a great iniurie offered to Christs Church by this B but whie doth the B. thus bycause the Prince will not promise obedience to the Prelates and to renounce his kingdome if he swarue from his obedience to them Is this a sufficient cause for want of obedience to the Prieste to defeate Chryste of his obedience Nay say you he made an exception that he vvoulde not submit his Diademe to Christ. By your leaue M. Saunders there you say not true Loke on your own presupposall once again yea on the words you made the Prince to speake whiche althoughe they were of your owne deuising for you neuer I suppose heard or read of Prince desirous to be baptized that spake on that fashion you do but tell the Princes tale to your aduantage yet finde you no such wordes in the wordes that you speake for him yea he speaketh the contrarie in offering to acknowledge the faith of Christ. But say you he would not submit his Diademe make his kingdome subiecte in the cause of faithe to the Ministers of Christ and that is all one vvyth denying to submit his Diademe to Christ. Yea Master Sanders were it admitted ye were ministers of Christ is Christ you al one the submissioÌ„ to Christ to his ministers al one Backare M. Saâ—… there is a great difference And yet Chryst requireth no submission of Diademes or subiection of kingdoms in such sort vnto him that he wold haue kings resigne them vp to him and he woulde take them no he neuer vsed that practise He might haue had such kingdomes if he had list but he refused them as your selfe before haue confessed Althoughe your Pope will haue kings resigne their kingdomes vnto him and he will take them and ruffle in greater pompe than any king vseth to doe Whiche argueth playnely that he is not Christes minister And therefore the king hardyly may refuse his vnlawfull demaunde that he woulde in the name of Christ extort as Christes officer which his master Christe both refused himselfe and forbad in his ministers And therefore the Prince dothe Chryste no iniurie bycause he will not bring his kingdome thrall to a false Prieste pretending to be Christes Minister béeing indéede the Minister of the tempter that offereth worldly kingdomes But say you hee muste make his kingdome subiecte to them in the cause of faith As though the cause of faith were hindered if the King made not his kingdome subiecte to the Priestes where as this were the reddiest way bothe to destroye the kingdome and the faith No Master Saunders the faithe of Chryste was neuer more sincere than when the Ministers of Chryst were obedient subiectes to their kings And the cause of faythe was neuer more weakened and corrupted than sithe Priestes haue wrong themselues out of their kings subiections and that the Popes haue made the Kings sweare obedience vnto them But Maister Saunders whines at this crying out vvhere is the obedience of faith that Christ sent his Apostles to procure in all the vvorlde You do well Master Saunders to aske vvhere it is for surely it is not with you nor in all your Popishe kingdome except here and there lurking and dare not shewe hir head for feare your Popishe Inquisitors woulde gette hir by the polle The obedience of fayth was frée when Priests were subiectes and since Priestes became Princes they haue taken hir captiue and exiled hir and done all that they coulde to haue killed hir But she is escaped your hands and requicouereth that libertie that the Apostles procured in all nations for hir And she doth so much the better bicause she rereth not worldly subiection of Princes but letteth Princes kéepe the estate of their kingdomes and requireth not onely obedience to hir in a more spirituall submission Whiche the more Princes yelde vnto hir they bring not their kindomes into more slauerie but into more libertie renowne and honour So that I truste shortely they will bring the Pope and his proude Prelates to their olde obedience againe Whie saye you this is to arme Princes agaynste the Church Nay Master Saunders it is rather to strengthen the Church to let Princes haue that armor that is due vnto them What say you to lette them doe vvhat they vvill and for nothing they shall doe to saye they vvill not leaue their Empire No bodie Master Saunders giueth Princes authoritie to do what they will. The authoritie that is giuen them is onely to doe good Their vvill must not be what they will but what Lawe vvill It is not with them as it is wyth your Pope Sic volo sic Iubeo stet pro ratione voluntas Thus I vvill and thus I commaunde my vvyll shall stande in steade of reason The Law is not wyth them in scrinio pectoris in the cofer of the brest as your Pope sayth it is in his I graunt there are Princes that doe thus but that is not their dutie Neither do Princes make a profession as you say that for nothing they will giue ouer their authoritie nor it is required of them nor presupposed But their duetie in their officâ—… is required and it is presupposed they will continue therein Which if they do not but breake promise shall the subiectes depose them or the Byshops depriue them by whiche rule they may quickly set vpon the Prince for any enormitie in ciuil matters too for he promised to minister iustice to al meÌ„ but he promised to none to giue vp his crowne if he did not Yea though he had made them some suche expresse promise also and brake it yet coulde no Byshop nor any other priuate person attempte to depose him for the breach thereof but commit the vengeance to god But this Prince that here is presupposed offereth inough vnto the Bishop which if he refuse not the Prince but the Byshop endamageth the Church of Christ. Nowe Master Saunders presupposing in this supposall that he hath clearely euicted the case where the Byshop by expresse wordes maketh this condition with the king he will pursue his victorie that he thinketh he hath gotten and proue that the king hath promised and is bounde euen as muche where the Byshoppe at his baptisme saithe no suche wordes vnto him But if so be saith he all men vvill confesse that no Byshop can giue baptisme vvithout great sinne to that king vvhom he seeth so proude then truely although the Byshop by negligence or forgetfulnesse shall say nothing hereof vnto the king notvvithstanding suche is the obedience that the king himselfe giueth vnto the Gospell of Christe vvhen he maketh himselfe a member of him and desireth of him to be saued that vvill hee nill hee this promise is contained in that facte that he shall minister vnto Christ and to the
sayings Stapl. 62. b 63. a M. Sta. vnlyke similitude to disburthen M. Fecknham Howe falsely M. Sta. chalengeth vs for heretikes for leauing oute an article of the common crede in the Apologie How cunning M. Stap. himselfe â—…s in the coÌ„mon creede M. Stap. notes the Bishop and other for graÌ„mar and â—…o what a Grammarian he shewes himselfe to be Contr. Valent. lib. 1. cap. 2. lib. 3. cap. 4. De praescript haereticorum Fol. 423. li. â—… Diuis 159. cap. 4. M. Stap. taketh on him to teache the bishop his Catechisme Stap. fol. 423. M Sta. in saying the Common crede leaueth out these words And in Iesus Christe our Lorde Stapl. 423. a M. Sta. leaueth out againe in saying the coÌ„mon Creede these wordes crucified dead and buryed Stapl. 423. a Aâ—… other article left oute by M. Sta. in saying the common creede That he sitteth at the right haÌ„d of God the father almighty Whether Cardinall Hosi ' be iustly chalenged to maintain the SweÌ„k feldians heresiâ—… or no. Stap. 63. 2. Stap. 63. â—… The Dâ—…natists did not simply refuse the oldâ—… â–ª testamente as the Manichees did but subâ—…ly as the Papistes do Aug. de haereâ—… Ad quod vult Stapl. 63. a. b The seconde motiue that moued the Bishop to chalenge M Feck to followe the Donatisteâ—… Supra pag. Diuis 18. pag. 11. How the Donatists and Papistes denie the Princes gouernement in Ecclesiasticall cau ses and refâ—…rie it onely to the clergie What the Papistes meane by the Church M. Sta. reâ—…oketh his grauÌ„t The Donatists exclaming on the Princes for Ecclesiasticall causes argueth that the supreme gouernemente of them was in the Princes Stap. 63. b Stapl. 63. b M. Stapl. example of the Princis punishing an honest man for a theefe A theefe in christen religion Iohn 10. M. Sta. simili tude returned vpon himself M. Stapl. letteth go the testimonies of S Aug. alleaged by the Bishop Stapl. 63. b Winton pag. 12. b. The speciall 〈◊〉 oâ—… christian princis Further examples of the old Testament alledged by S. Aug. for princes dealing in ecclesiasticall matters Stapletons order to this di uision Stap. 65. a Number of testimonies Whereto the former testimonies of S. Aug. were alleaged Wherto serue the authorities present Here M. Stapl. confesseth that Princes ought to make lâ—…wes for the â—…rance of Christes religion The Papistes denying the Queene to make lawes and say no catholike denyeth it denye them selues to be catholikes The Papistes subtill meaning in theyr plaine speaches The holde of a Papists worde and the holde of a weat Eele by the tayle Howe trimly the Papists and we do here agree in words See a subtill â–ª Papist At a dead life well fare a papists shift M. Stapl. renueth an olde knacke of Arrius Howe finely M. Stapl. can turne his tale Stapl. 65. a. 65. b Belyke M. Sta. wantes good neighbours Stapl. 65. b Here M. Stapl. bewrayeth all the â—…etche of his former graunte Howe craâ—…tyly M. Stap. limited the Princes making of lawes All M. Stapletons ioly grauÌ„t to Princes is nowe come to nothing but to make them the clergies slaughtermen and droyles M. Stapletons fayâ—…e texte and foule glose Stapl. 65. b. How S Augustine acknowledged the Prince M. Stap. telleth of all this that August wrote but what this all this is he duist not vtter August contr Gaudent epist. 2 li. 2. câ—… 26. Epist. 50. The testimonies of S. Aug. to proue the princes dealing in ecclesiastical causes to reach further than making lawes for punishing heretâ—…kes Epist. 48. M. Stapl. wold returne S. Augustines words vppon vs. Stapl 65 b. How sure the Papistes make all pointes againste the Protestantes Stap. 65. b Howe Princes punished deprauers of religion in saint August tyme. Stapl. 65 b. The Princes lawes for blasphemers The Princes carefull prouiding Stap. 65. b M. Stapletons strong proues Stapl. 65. b. Contempte of Sacraments Popish Sophistâ—…e can make 7. of 2. Stapl 65 b. Councels Matth. 26. Ioho 11. The Papistes maynteyn coÌ„demned doctrines 1. Tim. 4. Stap. 65. b Howe the Bishop called the Papists Donatistes Howe darke and subtilly M. Stapl. speaketh How farre the examples of the olde Testament stretche to directe christian princes M. Stapl. will proue that we denie that whi che we affirm What it is that we affirme of the Princes authoritie Stapl. 66. â—… Stap. 65. a Who bee the true Donatistâ—… for saying Princes maye not punishe in causes of Godâ—… religion M. Stapl. himself cleereth vs of that he falsly burdeneth vs. Stapl. 66. a Howe Luther sayd Faith can not be forced Croyses and Turkishe warres The question whether Princes maye punishe heretikes by death How the Papistes proue vs to be heretikes The Princes dutie where any are chalenged to be heretikes An inuectiue gainst M. Fox M. Foxes boke and B. Iewels great eyesores to the Papists Stap. 66. a. Sir Thomas Hitton priest False slaunders and malicious misseconstructions of the faithfull Luc. 23. Matth. 26. Iohn 19. Act. 6. Hewe the Papistes deale with the Protestantes and their articles Math. 5. The vneuen dealing of the Papistes Sir Thomas Hitton priest no Donatist Sir Iohn Oldcastell Stap. 66. b. â—… Stap. 66. b. M. Stapletons weake argument Maister Foxes synceritie in the Papistes falshoodes Sir Iohn Oldcastle proued no Donatist Sir Thomas More himselfe mislyked the punishment of manslaughter in many offen ceâ—… The aunciente punishment of of heretikes Declar. Erasmi tit de puniendis her 76. 77. The myld spirit of popishe Bishoppes and Abbots S. August opinion of the pu nishement of heretikes The Circumcelions Punishement by the purse Banishment The popishe crueltie The difference herein betwen Erasmus and the Popishe Bishops S. Hieroms opinioÌ„ herein and the resons mouing him thereto The Papistes in crueltie come neerest the Donatistes Eras. decla tit de pun hâ—… The mercie of the Gospell Though the Gospell taketh not awaye politike lawes or punishmentes yet is there a 〈◊〉 betweene them and the Gospell The Sorbonistes coÌ„fession In declar bras tit de pun haer Howe the Papistes yet neerer resemble the Donatistes Stap. 66. b. 67. a Stap. 67. a How M. Feck yeldes not to the examples of the olde testament and yet yelding to the new Testa ment is comprehended by it though he comprehended it not Pag. 14. a. M. Stapleton cap. 7. fol. 68. a M. Stapl. order in this diuision Stapl. 68. a. M. Sta. now at the length is driuen to graâ—…t Princes some regiment in Ecclesiasticall causes M. Stapleton graunteth also to Princes supreme gouernement in all ecclesiasticall causes In natural and ordinarie propositions the indefinite betokens the vniuersall Stap. 68. â—… â–ª M. Stap â–ª confesseth that the Bishop hath proued the full issue in question betweene M. Fecknham and him Stap. 68. a M. Sâ—…apl grant of all that the Bishop hathe hitherto alleaged Esai 49. Whether the Bishops examples and allegations beeing granted of M. Stapl. reache home or no. The prince supreme gouernour of all and
doo Will ye haue a woman weare a mans apparell it is flat forbidden by Gods worde Will ye haue a Quéene fight hir self in a battaile and breake a speare as a king may do In déed some mannish women as the Quéene of Amazons Thomyris Semiramis and other haue so doone but it is not sitting And by your owne reason the imbecillitie of theyr kynde doth cléere them And a number of such other things may be reckoned vp Shall we now saye the Quéene is not supreme gouernour ouer these persons and causes bicause hir selfe can not doe them Likewyse for a king that is a chylde you know he can not fight in battell himselfe neyther can he himselfe sit in iudgement and debate rights and wrongs in ciuil doubtes manie mo things can he himselfe not doe euen bicause as ye say he hath a defect in iudgemeÌ„t Hath he therfore in these ciuill and temporall thyngs no supreme gouernment Thus ye sée still your examples faile yea they make cleane agaynst you for as a supreme gouernor may wel be a supreme gouernor in those things that he himself can not do so a christeÌ„ princes supreme gouernmeÌ„t ouer al ecclesiastical persons in al ecclesiastical causes is nowhit hindred although the prince he or she yong or old can not do the functions ecclesiastical nor be an ecclesiast person The second argument is that he so often and al the Papists vse of the excellencie of the minister in his ministration aboue the Prince To this he citeth the saying of Saint Paule Let men â—…o esteeme vs as ministers of Christ and dispensers of his mysteries To whiche ministerie kings are not called And here is againe alledged the storie of â—…ziae that presumed to offer incense and was punished with â—…eaprie The effect of all the argument he knitteth vp thus Siergo minister c. If therfore the minister of the Church of Christ exercise a greater and more diuine ministerie than the king or any other prince howe is the king the Supreme heade of that churche wherein he seeth certaine ministers greater than himselfe I answere this is a fallation secundum quid ad simpliciter We graunt in the respect of his ministerie the minister is aboue all Princes But this pertayneth to the actions and function of the minister and not to the ouersight and direction that all those actions and functions be orderly done Nowe this béeing but a common argument Master Saunders vrgeth it further by comparison of eyther estate the Prince and the Priest from the olde Testament to the newe saying Ac nimirum illud c. And thys namely I seeme to take by my right the authoritie of any Christian king in his christian kingdom is not greater than was in tymes paste the authoritie of any Iewishe kyng among the people of the Iewes for if the Citie of God to whyche Chryste of his owne name hathe giuen a newe name maye verily bee the more woorthie but can not be inferiour to the Churche of the Iewes â–ª Surely then it followeth that a christian king ouer his christian kingdome can not obtaine more power than a kyng of the Hebrue nation did obteyne among the Hebrâ—…wes For howe muche the more any Common weale is subiecte too their earthly Kyng the authoritie of that common weaâ—…e is so muche the lesse But the authoritie of the Churche of Christe is not lesse than the authoritie of the Synagoge of the Iewes bycause in the churche of Christe those thinges were fulfilled to the verie image of the things whiche in the Synagoge of the Iewes were scarce figured by the naked shadowes As the truthe in deede in greater than the image so againe the image is greater than the shadowe but this is euident that the authoritie in times past of the only king is lesser than the authoritie of his christian kingdome or of hys Bishops But if it be so then the christian king which is both lesse than the church and the bishops of his kingdom cannot be immediatly vnder Christ the head of the churche This argument is intricate and full of many inuersed cringle crangles to shewe a face of déepe and subtill knowledge beyonde the simple mans capacitie whyche kynd of reasonyng is more suspicious than to edifying The effecte of the argument standeth all on this The greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the Priestes and the churche But the priestes and the churche haue not lesse authoritie but aboue a christian king Ergo the king hath not supreme authoritie To the Maior that the greater authoritie is giuen to a christian king the lesser haue the priests and the churche he sayeth nothing And yet some what is to be sayde thereto it is not so cléere as he makes it For sith eyther of these thrée haue their authorities in dyuers considerations the Priests authoritie may be greater than the kings authoritie in one respecte that is of his diuine actions and ministerie and yet in an other of the gouernement and publike direction the kinges authoritie is greater than his And so althoughe the Churches authoritie in one respecte be greater than bothe the Kings and the Priestes as they are bothe but membres and children of the Churche yet in regarde that the one is a Pastour and the other a gouernour and both of them Fathers and guyders as it were vnto the church their authorities againe are greater than the Churches And this also sheweth the falshood of the Minor that the Priestes and the Churche haue not lesse authoritie but are aboue the prince Which is not true but in suche respectes as nothing hinder the supreme gouernement that we giue the prince But Maister Saunders to confirme this to bée simply true the prince to be inferior to the Priests and people will proue it by his comparison of the state of the olde and newe Testament And first he will haue the state of the olde Testament in the Churches gouernement to be a figure of the newe But in the estate of the old Testament the Prince was vnder the priest and the people Ergo it must be so in the new To the maior we graunte him the gouernment of the Church in the old testament to be a figure of the churches gouernment in the new testameÌ„t And remember this well that here M. Saunders buyldes vpon For if he himselfe shal be found to swarue from it afterwarde when he findeth it shall make agaynst hym then let him blame himselfe and let vs note bothe inconstancie and cantradiction in him who playeth the snayle puttyng in and out his hornes and will say and eate his worde as he thinketh best to his aduantage And this is the fashions of them all in the examples of the old testament as we haue séene the practise of M. Feckenham M. Stapleton which is a subtile false and vnstedfast kind of dealing But go to we denie the minor that in the state of the