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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88107	The nevv quere, and determination upon it, by Mr. Saltmarsh lately published, to retard the establishment of the Presbyteriall government, examined, and shewed to be unseasonable, unsound, and opposite to the principles of true religion, and state. Whereunto is annexed a censure of what he hath produced to the same purpose, in his other, and later booke, which he calleth The opening of Master Prinnes Vindication. And an apologeticall narrative of the late petition of the Common Councell and ministers of London to the Honourable Houses of Parliament, with a justification of them from the calumny of the weekly pamphleters. / By John Ley, one of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster.	Ley, John, 1583-1662.	1645 (1645)	Wing L1885; Thomason E311_24; ESTC R200462	96,520	124

both and so in stead of clearing your owne conscience you corrupt i● againe with a new guilt If the House of Commons did so conceive of the Petitioners as you have published before you have indiscre●tly deserted the true information you had from them by a good hand as you call it twice but how good soever you take it to be there be some false fingers in it i● it wrote that to you which you have written to others and have m●●● your self an offender above the degree of your 〈◊〉 for though the tale you were told were mat●rially an untruth it was not fo●mally a slander in you while you did but publish it not as any thing made or 〈◊〉 by you ●ot as received by report from an 〈◊〉 with yourselfe of much 〈◊〉 for his trusty Intelligence And yet I conceive it had been a part of good manners to have forborne the divulging of such newes of so great moment wherein not only the integ●●y of the Common Councell and Ministers of London but the prudence of the Honourable House of Commons was highly concerned unlesse they had given you warrant to proclaim to the world that which in such cases is or should be kept within the compasse of their owne walls You conclude as you began with commendation of your selfe for the innocency of your intentions and charitablenesse of your affection saying in your first lines There past us the last weeke something that was displeasing both to the Common Councell and likewise to the Clergie to neither of which we intended the least displeasure and you end with the same selfe conceit wherein you began for you tell us in the close of your speech that you hold it 〈◊〉 high offence to wrong the poorest particular man yea if an enemy nor durst we say you ever publish that against the Parliaments and Kingdomes present enemie much more much lesse you should say against their friends which we did not receive from very good hands as truth If you say this in sinceritie we shall see some clearer evidence of your conscientious acknowledgement then that contradictory confession can be accompted which is like an Iliaca passie in the belly and bowels of your retractation though the head and loot of it be sutably qualified of your wronging not of a single or a private enemy but of a numerous society of the most publique Honourable and venerable Friends and Votaries of the Parliament in the Kingdome which if you seriously consider you cannot satisfie your selfe much lesse can you expect that they should rest satisfied with such a recanting recantation as you have now made if other wise this Paper will assure the Intelligent Reader that as Belshazzars government so your repentance is weighted in the ballan●e and found wanting Dan. 5.27 But untill I know the worst my charitie disposeth me to hope the best and my hope is that you are on the mending hand and so fare you well Now for the bold Britain● who brags of his daring spirit and would have every man to turne coward in a good Cause for 〈◊〉 of his courage in a 〈◊〉 yet it seemeth some body 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 to tell him of his miscarriage towards the Magistrates and Ministers of the Citie in such sort that as Salust said to Cicero * Si quam voluptatem male dicendo cepisti eam male audiend● amittas Orat. Salust in Ciceron Cicer. Orat. p. 671. If he tooke any delight in speaking what he ought not he may lose it againe by hearing what he would not and I must now doe it the second time by giving him another check for his vanitie in magnifying himselfe and his injurie in vilifying such as he cannot sufficiently honour For himselfe he makes as if he were a man of such high elevation that it is a stooping below his genius to have any thing to doe though by way of reproofe with such a despicable company as the Court of Common Councell and the Ministers of the City whom he would not meddle with were it not to serve the Parliament and serve them I dare saith he in as high a nature as any man and shall in all things comply with their proceedings and endeavour to make this compliance universall Were it not to serve the Parliament For your service to the Parliament Mr. Brit. I would not have you to be confident either in your owne performances or of their acceptance or of the good effects it hath brought forth among the people of the Kingdome there are some who though they doe not bragge of wit as you doe have a great deale more wisdome then you have and they say you have begotten much malignitie in many against the Parliament and confirmed it in others and have much weakened the hands of their most conscionable friends by the licentious extravangancie of your Pen beyond all bounds of grace or modesty and they further adde which honest men will lay hold on as a promise but you perhaps will take as a threatning that they will trace your irregular steps from the first page of your first Pamphlet to this present of the number 945. and represent you so in one entire delineation and discovery as if you be not a man of impenetrable impudence will make you ashamed of your owne resemblance And for your particular service you pretend to doe unto the Parliament in abusing the Petitioners I beleeve they will have little cause to give you thanks much lesse any reall reward for your painer since it will scarce lye in your power to doe them a greater dishonour then to make good men beleeve and Malignants insult that their most potent and beneficent I may say munificent Assistants the Citizens and their most faithfull and not altogether impotent or unusefull servants the Ministers of the Citie of London either give or take such offence at each other as may tend to a rupture but the hope is there will be present helpe and an effectuall Antidote against this scandall in the Apologeticall Narrative of the Petitions as now it is presented to publique view which will be the more expedite and prevalent in its operation by the little credit you have with all such as read your papers as the dictates of a Poet not of an Historian and you are like Sir to have lesse credit hereafter and to doe the Parliament lesse service then you have done if ever you did any worthy acceptance because you professe you will in all things comply with their proceedings For 1. No body will beleeve you will be so regular in you writing as they are in their Parliamentary passages 2. When you say you will in all things comply with their proceedings you must either suppose that they cannot erre which is farre from their thoughts for they know it is a pitifull and perillous ignorance or perversenesse not to acknowledge their humanitie Psal 9.20 and that it is the presumption of the Papall Conclave not a Priviledge of Parliament to assume

TO THE RIGHT HONOVRABLE THOMAS ADAMS Lord Major of the Metropolis of England the renowned Citie of LONDON Right Honourable THe concurrent desires of people of all sorts except of such as raise their owne particular interests out of the common ruines for recovery of our peace and the pantings of many lying under the power of the oppressour for deliverance from warre have of late by the good hand of God upon our publique counsels and forces thriven up to hopes and those hopes to presages that it will be an Honourable note upon your Name in time to come to have had the good hap within your view before you give up to another the Ensignes of your Honour which is the generall vote of all the true hearted Patriots of three Kingdomes that is a well compounded and compacted happinesse made up of three of the most desirable blessings of humane society which are consistent with the condition of mortalitie and they are these 1. A sincere and through reformation of Religion in Doctrine and worship of God 2. A Discipline and Government established according to Gods word and the example of the best reformed Churches whereby with the assistance of Divine grace we may be better then heretofore secured from relapses into irreligion heresie schisme and profanenesse which have beene the great crimes and curses of the last precedent and present times though through the cunning workings of Satan the evils now in course with some degrees of improvement from bad to worse are taken by some to be the remedies against foregoing corruptions 3. A third thing which in order of dignitie is the last though in most mens affections it be the first is that according to the prescript prayer of the Apostle we may lead a quiet and peaceable life 1 Tim. ● 1 he addeth in all godlinesse and honestie but both these have beene virtually premised in the two precedent particulars This will be of so much the sweeter tast to all as either by actuall suffering or by affectionate sympathy they have taken the deeper draught of the bitter cup of furious hostility That none of this hopefull expectation may faile of effect it will be requisite that every one for his part and to his power endeavour to make it good by all the good meanes and helps which conduce to the comfort and safetie not of a few but of the whole Common weale in each of the Nations now so much shaken and in danger also to be broken in pieces 1. By making an holy Covenant with God and by being stedfast in the Covenant when we have made it so we may engage his favour and power to our partie to be not onely a friend and Patron to us but an enemie to our enemies and an adversarie to our adversaries Exod. 23.22 2. By being at union among our selves and studying as much to uphold it as the seditious Shebaes on the other side plot the setting of discord betwixt the dearest brethren and if it be not to be looked for that all who are equally concerned in the same Cause should unanimously consent in that course which may carry it on to desired successe yet there may be a fivefold union among us which may give strength unto and maintaine the reputation of the great Designe it hand viz. a through reformation both in Church and State The first union is of the two Sister Nations according to our solemne League and Covenant which must be preferred before all either factions or questuo●s interests of any particular party whatsoever For as no two Nations under heaven have more and stronger bonds of union then we of England and our Brethren of Scotland being bounded and surrounded by the Sea as one entire Iland united under one King under one Title in the Kings Royall style the King of Great BRITAINE united yet more in Language and Religion and most of all in our late Covenant for a generall Reformation of Church and State and mutuall association and assistance against all malignant combinations So nothing is more enviously observed by our common enemies then these many obligations of union betwixt us nothing more cunningly contrived or more seriously pursued by them and I wish some among our selves had neither hearts nor heads nor hands in the plot then to dis-joyne us and to make us not onely perfidiously to fall off from performance of our common Covenant but with the same hands which we have lifted up to the most High God to fall one upon another as the confounded and accursed Midianites Iudg. 7 2● and when by such wickednesse we are brought to a weaknesse which may be easily subdued but God forbid we should be both so bad and mad as to act a Tragedie upon our selves to set forth a Comedie for such malicious spectators as would make their greatest mirth of our most grievous misery we must expect the execution of the bloody and destructive designe resolved on in Ireland which a knowing Intelligencer hath reported of the rebels there in these words * The Irish Remonstrance p. 31. This Kingdome viz. Ireland settled and peopled onely with sound Catholicks thirty thousand men must be sent into England to joyne with th●●rench and Spanish forces and the service in England perfor●● then they will joyntly fall upon Scotland for the reducing of that Kingdome to the obedience of the Pope which being finished they have engaged themselves for the King of Spaine for assisting him against the Hollanders Wherein though they reckon without the Lord of Hosts who onely commands both Peace and Warre at his pleasure and swayeth the successe to which side he will yet this discovers their designe of unpartiall perdition of the Protestant partie and the discovery thereof should be a motive of more confirmed union among our selves The second Vnion is that of the Parliament and Citie whereof we have had such happy experience ever since the unhappy hostility betwixt the flatterers of the King and friends of the Kingdome that we are bound to blesse God for it and to pray for the continuance of it both for our owne time and for the ages to come The third is the Vnion of the Parliament and Assembly of Divines whose recipr●call and proportionable respects which I mean not in an Arithmeticall but in a Geometricall Proportion give much countenance and authoritie to what is propounded to the people in their names for so the command of the one will be more awfull the advice direction and resolution of the other more usefull throughout the whole Kingdome A fourth Vnion is betwixt the Assembly of Divines and the City Ministers who may the more easily accord and agree together because many of them be but the same men under severall relations and most of them are swaid by the same principles of truth and pietie and involved in a society and participation of the same duties hopes and hazards The fifth Vnion is betwixt the City Magistracie and the Citie Ministery to which

while I seek after a controverted truth I may not turne aside from a certaine duty which is in meeknesse to deale with a brother that is contrary minded so farre as may not prove to the prejudice of what in conscience I am bound to undertake and to manage also to the best advantage This for the Author and for the Title page besides for the Authors Name is a part of it it is as followeth SECT II. Of the Title Page A New Quere at this time seasonably to be considered as we tender the advancement of Truth and Peace He knew very well how the Athenian humour of listening after news prevaileth with our people of all sorts and therefore being to fish in troubled waters he puts upon his hook that bait at which it was like many would be nibling Next he saith It is at this time seasonably to be considered as we tender the advancement of Truth and Peace He commends his New Query to acceptance in two respects 1. As seasonable 2. As much importing the advancement of Truth and Peace For the first he saith it is at this time seasonably to be considered So it is now it is published but it was very unseasonably offered and I marvell that he who hath written a whole booke of policy should be so unpoliticke as to thinke it seasonable to set forth such a Quere and so to resolve it such it tends to retard the establishment of Government whereto the Parliament is so much engaged not onely for the thing it selfe but for a timely proposition and imposition of it by their civill sanction For the first that they intend to set up a Church government we have it 1. From their expresse profession December 15. 1641. We doe here declare that it is farre from our purpose or desire to let loose the golden reines of Discipline and Government in the Church to leave private persons or particular Congregations to take up what forme of service they please for we hold it requisite that there should be throughout the whole Realme a conformitie in that order which the Lawes enioyne according to the word of God So in the first Remonstrance of the Honourable House of Commons pag. 25. 2. from the first Article of the solemne League and Covenant published by Authoritie of Parliament September 21. 1643. Wherein they and all others that take it doe covenant to endeavour the reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches 3. this Covenant was ordered againe by the Honorable House of Commons Januarie 29. 1644. to be publiquely read every Fast day and to be set up in every Congregation in a faire Table where every one may read it and to this are set the names of Master Speaker and 243. more of the Honourable House of Commons And for the second that they meane to expedite the settling of Government with all convenient speed we have good cause to conceive 1. Because they have bestowed already very many dayes in consultation about it 2. They insist in the same consultations still 3. They according to the eminence of their wisdome apprehend many and great evils that grow both in number and power by Doctrines of Libertinisme which necessarily require the restraint of a reformed Church Government 4. They have already set it up 1. In their Ordinance of Ordination set forth the last yeare 2. In an Ordinance for making London a Province this last yeare dividing it into severall Classes and for choosing a Committee for tryall of Elders to be chosen and Rules to be observed for orderly proceeding in the same and this before this Quere came forth 3. Since that they have advanced further by a Vote and Order for choosing Elders forthwith in particular Congregations 4. And last of all they have published an Ordinance with rules and directions for suspension from the Sacrament in cases of Ignorance and Scandall Yet they cannot make that speed with the Government which by most is desired and very much desired by themselves as we of the Assembly can witnesse who have often beene sent to by that Honourable Senate to quicken our worke and to ripen our debates to a full resolution because as with us the libertie of speaking wherein every one is free to propose and prosecute any doubt prolonged the Government in our hands so the like libertie in the Honourable Houses or rather our libertie is like theirs it being the Prototypon lengthens the debates and delayes the Votes of that most Honourable Senate and so much the more because they are more in number then we in our Synod and because their determinations are finall as ours are not And though that which is published doe not yet reach home to our full satisfaction we hope it is in the way towards further perfection which cannot reasonably be expected in the first Essayes of frames and formes of Government for we may say of Jerusalem as well as of Rome that it was not built in a day though in time it became the perfection of beautie the ioy of the whole earth Lam. 2.15 Such we pray God that fabrick may prove which is under the hands of our Honourable and holy Nehemiahs and Lord polish finish and establish the worke in their hands yea the worke of their hands establish thou it Psal 90.17 The other particular he propounds to make his Quere more plausible is the reference it hath to two precious things viz. Truth and Peace both which are upheld by Government Church-Government and without it for truth we have abundance of errours and heresies broached among us which divide men into manifold Sects and Factions and where they are multiplied there can be no peace without a treacherous toleration which will resolve at last into an Anarchy and confusion Having premised this he putteth his Quere thus Whether it be fit according to the Principles of true Religion and State to settle any Church-government over the Kingdome hastily or not and with the power commonly desired in the hands of the Ministers First he putteth the case according to the Principles of Religion and State which if he had well considered he might have thought the Parliament for the one and the Assembly of Divines for the other competently qualified each in their profession for resolution of such a doubt especially since it is a chiefe part of the publique worke of them both to drive it to its issue might have prevented such a Quere as this from a private Divine Secondly he suggests a suspition as if the Parliament were driving on the Discipline and Government of the Church in Jehu's Chariot with furious haste whereas both Parliament and Assembly have much adoe to ward off imputations of procrastination and delay for debating so long and determining so little whereof we have rendred the reasons before Thirdly he presents it as a gravamen or

enough knowne fearing that if once it were there placed they should never get it into their hands againe cryed it downe and were a stop in the way of the intended worke Answer Who these some were is not knowne enough I thinke not at all for it is like that a party a smaller party for so must that be which is a contra-distinct to the Honourable Parliament should oppose and overbeare the greater part resolutions being made by plurality of Votes It is much more probable to say no more that some and but some would have set up an Interimisticall Magistracie and that the Honourable Parliament cryed it downe and were a stop in the way of the intended worke my reason is 1. Because they never made Ordinance or Order for that Interimisticall Magistracie 2. Because they have done both for the Presbyteriall Government 3. Because an * Interim Germania decestabibis farrago Bez. respons ad Baldwin p. 49. See Bucolz Ind. Chron. p. 562. ad an 1548. Epist Brentii Calvine p. 77. Interimisticall Temperament hath beene alwaies by the godly and orthodoxe party attended with jealousie and feare and hath beene by them as much hated as feared 4. Because that Interimisticall Magistracie that was projected was too like Prelacie to be liked by such as desired a thorow Reformation and that in three things especially 1. In that it had no warrant in the word of God 2. That it would shrinke up the power into a few hands which should be communicated to many as the Prelacie did 3. In that it was contrary to the example of all the truly reformed Churches in the Christian world SECT XVI The Objection of eager contestation for Church Discipline and Censures answered HAving done with Mr. Colemans Interim which came in as a parenthesis to the Discourse we were in though it be pertinent to it I returne to Mr. Saltm his exception taken out of Mr. Prinnes Vindication where he aggravates the matter against the Presbyterie in that though by the sufficiencie of other Remedies it be needlesse so it hath beene said and thereto we have replied it is yet very eagerly contended for The Answer is if he meant it concerning admission to or rejection from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper which is that which hath beene most agitated betwixt him and some of our Tribe the contestation on the Ministers part is but for the libertie of their conscience the puritie of Gods Ordinance the preventing of Scandall which causeth and confirmeth Schisme and in such cases it becomes them not to be remisse or to manage such a Cause with a Laodicean luke warmenesse but with servencie of spirit and yet I doubt not but their zeale therein for the chiefest of them is and will be guided with knowledge and both tempered with humility modesty and meeknesse of spirit And that it hath none affinitie with an affectation of power or liberty to reject men from the Sacrament at their pleasure I beleeve because I am confident it is the mind of most of those Ministers who are competently qualified with knowledge and grace for their holy function that it is matter of great griefe of heart unto them to have any occasion of sending any of their Congregations sad from the Sacrament or as it may be likely to prove in most cases with wrath and heart-burning against themselves For my part I ever tooke it for one of the great aggrievances which many godly Ministers who were conformists in the gesture of receiving the Lords Supper suffered under the domination of the Bishops that they put it upon them to put such from the Sacrament as out of scruple of conscience durst not kneele at the receit of it and that such were threatned with suspension and some actually suspended from the Ministery as admitted Communicants either standing or sitting though never so well instructed and well affected in matter of Religion and never so religious in life and conversation and if I might make mine owne choice I had rather submit my selfe to the meanest man within my Pastorall charge in the most servile offices belonging to his person for a weeke together then for one time onely returne him from the Lords Table as unworthy to be admitted to partake of the provision thereof or as Coenam proximo die dominico sinnus celebraturi Hinc cogita quibus angustiis nunc constringar utinon me absente posset celebrari bac conditione ut ad vos usque vel manibus reptarem Calvin Epist Farello data Calend. Septemb. 1546. Ep. p. 64. in fol. excus Genev. anno 1575. Calvin once said on the like occasion I had rather absent my selfe from the Sacrament for that turne when there is cause to turne any from the Sacrament though I went away somewhither upon mine hands then to make any distinguishing disturbance in the celebration of the Supper And if I know mine owne heart in this point I thinke it would be as great a trouble to me to be an agent as to any man to be a patient in such a repulse and as great a joy if any were able to cleare it unto my conscience that no part of that Government ought to be committed to my charge which I ever apprehended as a burden and that an heavy one rather then a priviledge Secondly for the hope that he hath that the Parliament will consider of and take care that our Ministers like the Bishops formerly may not be taken up too much with ruling and governing Answer I hope so too and I have more then hope also for I am well assured the Parliament is so wise that their Reformation will have so much of the spirit of sound judgement so little of pangs of excessive antipathy that they will not runne so farre from one extreme as to arrive at the other There is a golden medium betwixt so much as the Bishops had and none at all as some would now have it Thirdly for the Reason of that hope it is because preaching and instructing is worke enough wholly to engrosse their time and thoughts Answer Yet not so wholly but that there may be a competent time allowed for assistance in Discipline there have beene many Disciplinarians who have beene frequent Preachers and great Writers also as Calviu Beza Moulin and divers others and there are many Divines at this present who bestow many howres daily at the debates and other businesse of the Assembly at Westminster and yet are not wanting to their Pulpits on the Sabbath and who preach many times on the weeke dayes besides and in modesty to omit the account of mine owne time studies and taskes for above fourtie yeares together and I beleeve divers of my Brethren have much to say for themselves to the same purpose I shall instance onely in the great abilities and diligence of my very learned and religious friend and Brother Dr. Hoyle who had occasion by way of Apologie to plead for himselfe before his Rejoynder to the lesuite

Elders or in any other part of Ecclesiasticall power but humbly wait for further warrant from the Parliament to proceed in the work while many of our dissenting Brethren of their owne accord and without the command or consent and against the Vote of the Civill State gather Churches or continue the Government of those they have gathered according to the modell of their owne choosing notwithstanding the joynt admonition of many eminent Ministers as well Independent as Presbyteriall to forbeare untill what was and yet is in part under deliberation came to accomplishment and * M. S. Eaton Teacher and Tim. Taylor Pastour of the Church of Duckenfield in Cheshire in their late defence of sundry positions and Scriptures to justifie the Congregationall way some take the boldnesse publikely and in print to avow themselves as Ministers under the name and office of Teachers and Pastors of new constituted Churches and publikely to assert their repugnant principles and practises in opposition to that which the Honourable Houses of Parliament have partly authorised already by their Civill Sanction and engaged themselves further to authorise throughout the Churches of both Kingdomes as God shall be pleased to make way for a thorow reformation by reducing the severall Countries under the command of the King and Parliament But I had rather then recriminate friendly and kindly close with my yet dissenting Brother and therefore heartily commend it to his Christian consideration to study the reconciliation and union of all the godly party as Mr. Burroughs hath lately done and not to proceed to discourses which tend to make or maintaine division or estrangement and alienation of affection betwixt them To that purpose I shall propose as a patterne of imitation to Mr. Saltm and to all others who partake with him in his present Opinion what he hath set downe in the seventh Chapter of his Irenicum in his owne words First Mr. Burroughs his Irenieum c. 7. p. 43 44 45. Those in the Congregationall way acknowledge that they 〈◊〉 bound in conscience to give account of their wayes to the Churches about them or to any other who shall require it this not in an arbitrary way but as a dutie that they owe to God and man Secondly They acknowledge that Synods of other Ministers and Elders about them are an Ordinance of Iesus Christ for the helping the Church against errours schismes and scandals Thirdly That these Synods may by the power they have from Christ admonish men or Churches in his Name when they see evils continuing in or growing upon the Church and their admonitions carry with them the anthoritie of Iesus Christ Fourthly As there shall be cause they may declare men or Churches to be subverters of the faith or otherwise according to the nature of the offence to shame them before all the Churches about them Fiftly They may by a solemne act in the Name of Iesus Christ refuse any further communion with them till they repent Sixthly They may declare and that also in the Name of Christ that these erring people or Churches are not to be received into fellowship with any of the Churches of Christ nor to have communion one with another in the Ordinances of Christ Now all this being done in Christs Name is this nothing to prevaile with conscience If you say private brethren may admonish and declare in the Name of Christ This is more then if any private Brethren should do the same thing for at Synod is a solemne Ordinance of Christ and the Elders are to be looked on as the officers of Iesus Christ But our Brethren say There is one meanes more in their way then the Congregation all way hath that is if the sixe former will not work then Synods may deliver to Satan In this very thing lies the very knot of the Controversie betweene these who are for the Presbyteriall and those who are for the Congregationall way in reference to the matter in hand namely the meanes to reducing from or keeping out errours and heresies from the Church in this lies the dividing businesse But I beseech you consider at what a punctum we divide here and judge whether the cause of division in this thing be so great as there can be no helpe and whether if an evill spirit prevaile not amongst us we may not joyne For First consider what is there in this delivering to Satan which is a seventh thing which our Brethren thinke may hopefully prevaile with mens consciences when the sixe former cannot Yes say they for by this they are put out of the Kingdome of Christ into the kingdome of Satan and this will terrifie This putting out of Christs Kingdome must be understood clave non errante if the Synod judges right not otherwise yes this is granted by all Then consider whether this be not done before and that with an authoritie of Christ by those former sixe things for bereticall Congregations or persons are judged and declared in a solemne Ordinance by the officers of Christ gathered together in his Name to be such as have no right to any Church Ordinance to have no communion with any of the Churches of Christ Now if this judgement be right are not such persons or Congregations put out of the Kingdome of Christ and put under the power of Satan consequently But thirdly If some brethren rise to a seventh degree and others stay at sixe which have yet such a power over conscience that if they prevaile not the seventh is no way likely to prevaile why should not the Apostles rule quiet us all Phil. 3.15 16. Whereto we have already attained let us walke by the same rule if in any thing you be otherwise minded God will reveale even this unto you if we have attained but to sixe and our Brethren have attained to seven let us walke together lovingly to the sixe if God shall after reveale the seventh we will promise to pray and study in the mean time we shall walke with them in that also why must it needs be now urged with violence so as to divide else and although we hold not the seventh yet there is an ingredient in the sixt that hath in it the strength of the seventh for wherein lies the strength of the seventh above the rest is it not in this that it is the last meanes Christ hath appointed in his Church to work upon the heart this consideration hath much terror it it Now those in the Congregationall way say that this is fully in the sixth wherefore that is as terrible to their consciences as the seventh can be to the consciences of our brethren and that upon the same ground If so what is the difference for this matter more then that which hath beene betwixt many godly and Orthodoxe Divines about the division of the Lords Prayer whether it containe 6. or 7. petitions when those that are for sixe have as much matter in those sixe as those that have seven and those that

facis ●de movendo and to facilitate and expedite the businesse they had in hand Nor was it any distrust or impeachment of the high praise of their prudence for you know the old and ever true Aphorisme when the Acts of goodnesse doe anticipate admonitions Laudat hortatu comprebat acta suo Ovid. and we may say the like of Petitions they are so far from repr●ofes that they are the praises of the Actors Nor is there any more cause to impute undutifulnesse or ill manners unto the Petitioners then there is to accuse them of want of policie or prudence for this particular nor any ground to straine up the charge so high as if that which they did were prejudiciall and derogatorie to the Majesty of Parliament in forestalling their counsels with any particular desires So say you Mr. Br. in your Wednesdayes accompt But I pray you Sir by what dialect doe you call those Petitions particular desires which were concluded in a full Common Councell the representative body of this famous and never more then since our late and unhappy warres renowned City not one man as I have been credibly informed appearing against it at the passing of the Vote and that not for any particular person or purpose but for the generall good of three Kingdomes both for the generation present and for posterity in the ages to come And what prohibition I pray you lyes against particular Citizens and Ministers that they may not Petition the Parliament with particular desires as well as you Did not you when you were confined for shewing your selfe rather an over-nimble Mercury then a sober paced Britannicus petition them your selfe for your enlargement And when you did so did you do any thing prejudiciall and derogatory to the Majesty and Dignity of Parliament and as it were forestall their counsels with your particular desires If not shew us your priviledge which may make it no fault in you and an indiscretion or undutifulnesse or ill manners in others I shall need to proceed no further in answer to your Criticismes I see you are ingenious in your apprehensions and ingenuous in confession of your owne misprisions and since I perceive you so punctuall in rectifying your Reader to a title for you acknowledge a mistake in honouring Sir The Aston with whom I have had much and some perillous opposition in the Cause of the Parliament with the Title of a Lord doubt not but you will be as ready to retract an undeserved traducement of the Parliaments friends especially so many and of so great reputation as to recall an undeserved advancement of the Parliaments enemy I will take leave of you with a word of advice which is but this take heed of engaging your selfe any further in this cause see first how the Immoderate Intelligencer speeds with his precipitated reproaches against the City and Ministers of London to whom now I will returne and take leave of him though not in such a manner as I doe of you and having answered his crimination I shall now enter a defence against his commination of censure SECT XXV An answer to the Intelligencers Commination of the Petitioners HAving set the suspition of guilt up to the height not onely of reality but of imagination he scrueth up the censure to a proportionable elevation saying in the name of the Honourable House of Commons but without any warrant from them that it deserved an high censure and withall that they resolved if that were the way intended they would goe on with their Declaration and quickly undeceive the people and in the Interim they referred it to the Committee of Examinations that the first contrivers and after fomenters of that businesse may be dealt with according to merit These words may sound some terrour to him Hic mur● abeneus esto Nil conseire sibi c. Horat. that hath but a brasen face but he that hath a wall of brasse a cleare conscience from the guilt objected may be bold as a Lion when such as you may flee when no man pursueth Prov. 28.1 For more particular Reply Sr. we cannot be put into fear of an high censure while we are assured of our owne innocence and the Houses of Parliaments both prudence and justice and therefore we shall willingly submit our selves to examination when and where they please to call us to our answer and if our accusers would meet us at the barre upon such just and equall termes as lege talionis by the Divine law is ordained Deut. 19.16 c. we would petition them againe for a tryall and punishment upon conviction as before for the establishment of the Presbyteriall Discipline For the Declaration you speake of there be two things which will secure us from all danger of it the one is that whatsoever it is it is but conditionall viz if this be the way that is the way of seditious appeale from the Parliament to the people and we are sure that 's no way of ours how neere the Independent by-path coasts upon or bends towards that way may appeare by their making combinations with the people and setting up a popular Government in the Church without any authoritie from the State The other securitie we have is both from the Parliament and our selves as we have professed before and in confidence of both neither Parliamentary Examinations Declarations no nor Visitations shall trouble us for if we be guilty let them visit our transgression with the rod and our iniquitie with stripes Psal 89.32 and if we deserve it let them chastise us not onely with Solomons whips but with Reboboams scorpions 1 King 12.14 There is one thing more in his minatory report which though he tell it as a threat I would take it for a promise if he could make it good in the right sense of it that is quickly to undeceive the people for they are shamefully deceived many waies especially by such impudent Impostors as this weekly Newes-maker with whom I have now done And in confutation of Britannicus and him I have confuted others who concurr● with them in the same calumnies against the Common Councell and Ministers of London SECT XXVI The misreport of the Diurnall and Weekely Account confuted and the Perfect Passages convinced of absurdity and sedition YEt I must bestow a few words on the Perfect Diurnall and Weekely Account and a few lines on the Perfect Passages For the first omitting what is virtually or formally answered before under the Titles forementioned I shall note but one particular which is that it was ordered as a part of the answer to the Ministers that they should returne home and looke after and attend the charges of their severall Congregations so saith the Perfect Diurnall and the Weekly Account saith the Ministers were desired to looke diligently to their owne flocks with this addition of the Writer a neighty charge and worke enough by which is implied that they were negligent in their Calling and too busie