bycause they were but women whan the apostels them selfe knâ—we these women for suche as they were worthy more credence some one of them than some many men And for to excuse the apostels in the lacke of belefe bycause the messyngers were but women Tyndale dothe therein no more but lay lacke and ouersyght in oure sauyour that in a thynge that he wolde haue beleued sent out suche women on his myssage But Tyndale woteth well if he beleue the gospell that no more they dyd whan they sawe the myracle of hym selfe commyng in before them the dores beynge shette and spekynge vnto them but were so farre fro the belefe of his resurreccion at the fyrste that they had went that he had ben some spirite tyll he nat onely preched to them but also reasoned with them there vpon Nor yet saynte Thomas whiche as Tyndale sayeth coulde nat beleue tyll he sawe Chryste neyther dyd beleue the woman nor all his awne felowes nor our sauyour him selfe vpon the syght neyther tyll he felt him fully and put hys fynger in his syde And this he dyd of stoberne standynge in his mysse belefe in that after his belefe lackinge he went nat about to seke the truthe and endeuoure hym selfe to beleue them that tolde him the trouthe but as it semeth by the gospell obstinately stode in his distruste and sayd tyll he dyd that he thought of lykelyhede he neuer shuld that is to wytte tyll he felte hym and put his fynger into his woundes he wolde neuer beleue it And I saye plainly who so euer beynge enfourmed of any artycle of the faythe whiche god byndeth vs to beleue beleueth it nat the cause why he beleueth nat is nat bycause he can nat but bycause he wyll nat For if he wolde do the thynge whiche Tyndale taketh for foly that is to wytte nat resyste but endeuour hym selfe to submytte hys reason vnto faythe with askynge helpe of god for the fortheraunce of his imperfeccion he thus doynge hys parte god wolde I say nat fayle on his parte agayne but wolde effectually worke with hym to perfyte in hym the faythe in whyche he preuenteth hym by gâ—ace whyche preuencyon was whan he gaue hym the grace and occasyon to be fyrst tolde of the mater But euer cometh Tyndale by degrees euer he seeth hym selfe lykely to be dreuen fro steppe to steppe And therfore where he sayd y t the elecâ—e can nat synne dedely fyrste he alledgeth for the cause therof that he synneth neuer but vpon great occasyons And seynge that a man may therto say what than He goeth to another steppe and saieth that he neuer consenteth to synne And than seynge that steppe wyll nat be defended he goeth to another and sayeth he consenteth nat to synne to serue it And perceyuynge that he can nat stande sure there he steppeth downe to y e nexte and sayeth that he casteth nat of from his necke the yoke of of loue toward the law of god And yet perceyuynge y â— that steppe wyll not holde hym neyther he cometh at laste vnto a nother steppe and sayth he casteth it not of malycyously trustynge bycause we can not loke into the mannes breste to se whyther he bare any malyce therin we shold neuer be able to conuycte hym of that worde when he put on ys ther to malycyously And yet from y e steppe haue I dreuen hym therin haue I begyled his hope as ye before haue herde in the synnes of king Dauid by the wordes of god spoken by the mouth of Nathan the prophete Now as he played there so playeth he by the apostles here For fyrste he sayth they lost neuer the fayth bycause they were amased then astonyed and then aferde thâ—n bycause they coulde not perceyue the thynge for possâ—ble Ans yet at last he cometh so nere to the grauntynge y t they lacked it y t by playne wordes at length he sayth the same thyng hym selfe affermyng y t they byleued not nor coulde not byleue And yet wolde he now make vs wene that though they byleued not yet had they no lacke of the fayth bycause in the lacke of theyr bylyefe they hadde no malice And that thynge he proueth thus Tyndale There was none of them that euer â—aysed on hym and came so farre fâ—rth â—o say he was a deceyueâ— and wrought with the deuyls craâ—te all this whyle se wherunto he is come in the enâ—e we defye hym false wretâ—he that he was and his false doctriâ—e also And therunto music they haue comâ— at the lasâ—e when feare sorow and wonderynge had ben pasâ—e yf they had not â—en pâ—euented and holpen in the meane season More Lo good chrysteÌ„ reders here hath Tyndale taught vs y t who so byleue not y e resurreccyoÌ„ of Chryst yet all y â— whyle he rayleth not vpoÌ„ hym calleth him wrech defieth him he is saue inough For all y e whyle though they byleue not yet lacketh he not hys kylyef And then if he be an â—lecte â— he shal be preuented of god holpen before ere euer he fall in to suche blasphemy But yf he be a reprobate then whan he cometh onys into y e case that y e apostles were in as Tindale sayth he shall for lacke of suche preuencyon helpe fall iâ—to suche raylyng and blasphemye then is he remedylesse he sayth And therfore sayth he bothe here and in dyuerse places that the seed of god preuâ—nteth alwaye and kepeth preserueth the electes from fallynge into y e case Here is a goodly tale be ye sure But now wherby shall Tyndale of thys doctryne make vs sure The gospell to begynne wyth for one pece maketh vs sure of the contrary For therin we fynde that the traytoure Iudas whyche was I wene as farre from the bylyefe of the resurreccyon as euer was saynt Thomas of Inde came neuer yet vnto suche raylynge and blasphemynge of Chryst as Tyndale sayth that the apostles bycause they byleued not had they not ben by grace preuented must nedes haue comen vnto For when he went about to make his bargayn bytray hym and sell hym we fynde not that he called hym false wretche nor no suche vylanouse word And after we fynde that when he repented and brought agayne the money he was farre from raylynge vppon hym and sayed I haue offended god in bytrayenge the ryghtuouse blode And surely though he had at the sellyng rayled as mych vpon him toward hys passyoÌ„ as Tyndale in hys bokes now rayleth iesteth vpon hym in the blessed sacrament after hys resurreccyon yet dare I be bolde vpon hys mercy to say that yf that olde Iudas in his repentauÌ„ce had with the loking vppon hys own synne loked also vpoÌ„ the great mercy of god and also that yf Tyndale now thys new Iudas wyll repeÌ„t hys raylynge agaynst Chrystes blessed body the sacrameÌ„t of the awlter aske our lord mercy therfore both the tone sholde haue had the tother shall haue remyssyon and
other place to which this mater moche more apê‘tayneth yet syth Tyndale sayeth here hym selfe that the cause why no suche glose nedeth to those wordes of oure sauyour is bycause that saynt Peters faythe neuer fayled in his owne persone he confesseth thereby that if it euer at any tyme fayled in his person than at the leâ—te wyse some glose there nedeth And than dare I be bolde to say that if there any nede the glose thaÌ„ that he mocketh let him reherse it right is suche as he wyll nat thys fyue yere fynde a better But leauynge that glose as I say tyll I come to my dyaloge yet to se in the meane whyle whether any glose neded or none syth Tyndale agreeth that there neded if y â— faythe at any tyme fayled in saynt Peter I shall nat lette for his pleasure ones agayne to serche whether the faythe at any tyme fayled in saynt Peter or no. And to th entent that we may deale well and playnly to gether let hym me fyrste agre to gether what the thinge is whervpon we dispute For he vseth often whan he is conuycted to say that he toke thys worde or that worde otherwyse than we take hym therein Let vs therfore fyrste bycause we speke of faythe here hym declare what hym selfe calleth faythe To thys after that he sawe hym selfe shamefully confuted concernynge hys heresye of fayth alone suffycyent for saluacyon he sayth that he calleth not a dede fayth any fayth but he meaneth all waye by fayth a very chrysten fayth that hath the loue therwyth by reason wherof it can not but worke well Now shall ye se how courteysely that I shall handle Tyndale For all be it ye se well that I myghte by many meanes and many playne authorytees as well of saynte Iamys as saynte Poule and the very gospell to conuycte hym in that poynte as I haue often done all redy yet shall I for hys pleasure lette all that passe for thys tyme and take fayth as he sayth he taketh it hym selfe But then aske I Tyndale thys tyme whyther that in the tyme in whyche Peter forsoke and forswore Chryst he dyd byleue wyth suche a bylyefe that then wroughte well wyth loue If he saye ye then syth the worke that he then wroughte was the forsakynge and forswerynge of Chryste it muste nedes folowe that he sayth that the forsakynge and forswerynge of Chryste was a good worke And then wyll it theruppon folow that syth saynte Peter wepte sorowfully therfore he was vere sory and sore repented hym that he hadde well wroughte wyth loue and done a good worke So that I se no remedy but that Tyndale muste nedes be he neuer so loth confesse and graunth vs that saynt Peter in that tyme dyd not byleue wyth loue y â— wrought well Now thynketh me than that bytwene Tyndale and me there lacketh now but one thynge and that is what we call faylynge For the better perceyuynge wherof I wyll aske Tyndale thys If saynt Peter had holde on styll in that forsakyng and that periury styll all hys lyfe so fynally dyed therin and had yet for all that all the whyle byleued in hys herte all the artycles of y e trew fayth the coÌ„trary of all y t he sayd not onely rayled no thyng all y e whyle agaynst Chryst but also loued hym to sauyng not so well but y t he wold rather forswere y t euer he sawe hym then to suffer payne sorow for hym I aske I say of Tyndale yf saynt Peter had contynued his lyfe dyed in this state had not then at no tyme in his lyfe his fayth y t Tindale calleth fayth y t is to say his bylefe with well workyng loue fayled hym yf he say no theÌ„ wyll it folow vpoÌ„ Tindals word y t there may be many faythfull folke wyth a well workynge loue eternally dampned in hell excepte it be false that our sauyour sayth He that denyeth me before the worlde I wyll denye hym before the angels of god and he that wyll saue hys lyfe in thys worlde shall lese it The moste parte I suppose that of the chrysten people shall be dampned the cause of theyr dampnacyon shall be that where as they byleue ryght and loue god also so farre forth as he wyll let them liue as they lyst and make mery and bynde theym to nothynge that they haue no lust to do loue hym not yet so suffycyentely as for the loue that they bere hym they wyll rather forbere the pleasours of theyr lyfe and also rather dye then dedely to dysplease hym by the doynge of any suche thynge as he wyll rather that they shall dye then do it Now se I therfore no remedy but that Tyndale muste nedes agre that yf saynt Peter had in such state lyued and dyed hys fayth well workynge by loue had fayled hym Then syth it hadde then in sometyme at the leste wyse fayled hym lette vs deuyde that tyme of that state of hys from hys fyrste denyeâ—ge and forswerynge vnto the very minute of hys dyenge supposynge to contynue styll and dye to in the same state into fyue egall partes yf it please hym and then haue we fyue tymes all of one fasshyon to whyche fyue tymes Tyndale yf it please hym maye gyue names to and call them A B C D E. Now saye I than syth Tyndale muste nedes agre y t nâ— some of these fyue tymes Peters fayth fayled I aske in whyche of them wherto syth they be all fyue of one fashyoÌ„ concernynge hys fayth he muste nedes graunte that in all fyue it fayled hym Let vs now then somwhat chaunge our case from that that myghte haue ben in to that that was in dede And after that Peters fayth had fayled in the thre fyrste tymes that is to saye those that are named ABC partes of the hole tyme wherof ABCDE were all the partes lette vs put that in the fourth parte â—hyche we called D Peter reâ—ented by helpe of goddes grâ—ce thorow y e meane of Chrystes foresayde prayoure and thâ—t hys lâ—â—ynge bylyefe so came to hym agayne in that â—yme whyâ—h we â—â—lled D and that he wolde euer after â—ather suffer tenne tymes to dye then onys to forsake god agayne Now aske I Tyndale whether y â— not faylynge of his fayth now in the latter partes of hys tyme y t is to wyt in D E doth now make it trewe that hys fayth fayleth hym not before whyle it fayled hym in dede in the thre formar tymes ABC the thre partes of hys hole tyme ABCDE Now what Tyndale must nedes answere vnto thys he can tell well inough I warraunt when he loketh in hys carde vpon those letters in hys crosse rowe For there he muste nedes se that though hys fayth fayleth neuer after whyle it fayled not yet before whyle it fayled it â—ayled ê‘de wherof the prefe is so playne vppon hys crosse row that he muste nedes se
that draweth draweth euen from the begynnynge and casteth downe the cord of his grace to take holde vpon wheruppon who so taketh hold and holdeth styll is by god drawen vnto god and helpeth hym selfe to be drawen For as saynt Poule sayth we helpe forth wyth god I say also that after that god hath wrought wyth mannys wyll and called hym by preuencyon of grace at the yeres of dyscrecyon eyther from Iudaisme or fro gentylyty and fyndynge no lette in the man hath by baptysme fully infounded the fayth and wyth hope and cheryte put hym in state of grace whych is all the wrytyng in the harte that euer I herde of this man hauynge nowe not fayth alone but hope and cheryte to and standynge in suche state of grace that yf he then so deceaced his soule sholde forthe with flye in to blysse byfore his body were colde yet when he doth after that infusyon of fayth and grace any thefte or auowtry he leseth charyte alway by custome of synne somtyme hope to and leueth but bare fayth that is to say bylyefe alone and somtyme by false doctrine of heretykes leseth some of that to Aud yet is fayth alone good to be kepte ye and the very peyces and fragmentes of the fayth also for they be meanes by whyche a man maye the more easely come to the remanaunt that he hath loste or lakketh And they helpe wyth goddes forther helpe to kepe a man from some synne though they kepe hym not from all For some man that falleth to thefte somtyme remembereth yet his baptyme and beynge by the deuyll entyced to kyll the man maketh a crosse vppon his brest prayeth Crist kepe hym from it in aduowtry lyke wyse And god in that good mynde preueÌ„teth the man by grace worketh wyth hys wyll in kepynge hym therefro as he gaue hym good thoughtes and offred hym his grace yf he wold haue taken holde therof to kepe hym 〈◊〉 the tother to And I doute not but yf god left hym in the â—one as he lâ—â—te god in the tother the deuyll that wyth his 〈◊〉 brought his wyll to thefte and aduowtry wolde â—rynge hym to manslaughter also and make hym kyll and murther the tone man for his money the tother man for his wyfe And thus ye se that of Tyndales ryall tale there is not one worde yet proued trew sauynge where he sayeth that all which come of Abrahams seed are nor Abrahams chyldren all but they only that folowe the fayth of Abraham For I wyll graunt hym this and a great deale more so For I say farther that all be â—ot Abrahams chyldren that haue Abrahams fayth but if they haue his charyâ—e to and therby worke his workes For our sauyour sayth yf ye be the chyldren of Abraham worke ye the workes of Abraham But ye be sayth he the chyldren of the deuyll and after his desyres wyll ye do well wyll Tyndale yet say syth yt is so that M. More grauÌ„teth hym selfe y t though fayth alone be a very fayth and right and trew for so farre as it stretcheth yet bycause yt stretcheth not farre inough to saluacyon in that yt beynge but alone lakketh both hope and charyte wherfore doth mayster More speke so myche therof beyng as hym selfe confesseth but insuffycient and not rather let yt passe and exhorte euery man to my felyng fayth that is both suffycyent and also can neuer fayle As for the fyrste poynte the blame be theyrs that haue geuyn the occasyoÌ„ For men haue be fayn to speke so mych of fayth alone for the selâ—e same cause for whyche saynte Poule dyd speke therof and saynt Iamys both that is to wyt bycause these heretikes now folowed the false secte of some suche as were then in the apostles tyme teachynge that fayth alone was inough for saluacyon as Tyndales mayster Martyne Luther doth manyfestly and playne in his Babilonica where he sayeth expressely that a chrysten man can neuer be dampned yf he will byleue nor no synne can damne hym but only inâ—rudelyte that is to say lakke of bylyefe For as for all other â—ynnys what so euer they be fayth saith he if it eyther abyde styll or come agayn suppeth theym all vppe in a moment and that god hath no nede of mannys good workes but that he hath nede of oure fayth alone This maketh folke to speke of fayth alone and shewe by y e authorite of saynt Poule and saynt Iamys and many other places of holy scrypture that Tyndales mayster holy Luther lyeth But yet wyll Tyndale saye syth I do nowe speke of fayth that is felynge and worketh well and by reason of the felyng a can not but worke well what sholde mayster More eyle now to speke any more of the tother faith alone that for lakke of felynge worketh not consyderyâ—ge also that I bysyde the fayth that feleth and worketk well adde repentaunce also of all that men do amysse what fauâ— ther fore fyndeth he now or what wolde the man haue more Fyrste there ys yet cause to speke of fayth alone bycause Tyndale is not an heretyke alone but y t there be many mo besyde hym whyche yet saye styll as Luther dyd byfore Also there is cause bycause of Tyndale specyally which wolde glose Luthers olde heresye wyth these new wordes whych wyll in no wyse stande wyth whych he wold make the world to wene that in fayth alone he ment fayth hope and charyte and that yt coulde not be that he any other ment bycause there can be none other fayth but onely that alone y t hath both hope and charyte therwith and by thys bald glose that thre vertues be all one vertue and that one vertue were thre agaynst both reason and scripture wold he mokke vnlerned people and make them byleue that Luther ment well and that all other men were so madde that they coulde not vnderstande hym And therfore to make open this wyly foly of Tyndale is also a cause why that I speke so myche of fayth alone bysydes the necessyte of answerynge hym concernynge his worshyppefull euasyon of his owne felynge fayth on whych he hopeth that he maye be bold bycause no man can come into his brest to se what maner of felynge hym selfe feleth there But yet hath god of his great goodnes begyled hym made hym so madde in the brayne that he hath vttred hym selfe such thynges with his own peÌ„ne as our sauyour sayenge hym self y t the mouth speketh of the abuÌ„daunce or fulnesse of the herte muste nedes make euery man to fele euen at his fyngers ende that Tyndale in the botome of hys harte wyth his fulsome felynge fayth feleth a foule fylthy hepe of false sumblynge heresyes For yet is his fayth worse then fayth alone whyche he calleth the deuyls fayth and myne For as saynte Iamys sayth The deuyls do both byleue tremble also for drede but thou sayeth he to Tyndale and euery suche as Tyndale is that for his felyng fayth
The second parte of the coÌ„futacion of Tyndals answere In whyche is also confuted the chyrche that Tyndale deuyseth And the chyrche also that frere Barns deuyseth Made by syr Thâ—mas More knyght ¶ Prentyd at London By wyllyam Rastell 1533 CVM PRIVILEGIO ¶ The fourth boke ¶ whyther the chyrche can erre Tyndale THere is a nother question whyther the chyrche maye erre Whyche yf ye vnderstande of the pope and hys generacyon is verely as harde a questyon as to aske whyther he that hath bothe hys eyes out be blynde or no or whyther it be possible for hym that hath one legge shorter then a nother to halte More WHo wolde not nowe wene that thys man had a playne clere open cause and easy to defende when that euyn in y â— begynnyng in so few wordes he concludeth all the mater at onys and that wyth ensamples so playne and euydent that euery man muste nedys agree them to be trewâ— But when ye shall agayne se that hys ensamples are no more lyghtsome then vâ—lyke the mater that he resembleth them vnto and that he eyther of wylynesse wyll not or for lacke of wytte can not perceyue and se the poynt that he shulde towche then shall euery wyse man well perceyue and se that hys solempne shewe of suche confydence in hys euyll cause is nothynge but a playne proclamacyon made by hys owne mouth of hys owne rebuke and shame For here wolde I wytte what thynge Tyndale meaneth by the pope and popys generacyon If he meane hys carnall kynredde or the pope and his cardynallys eyther he then wynketh of wylynesse and wyll not se the marke For he knoweth very well y â— neyther of these is the thyng that we call the chyrche when we speke of the catholyke chyrche of Cryste that can not erre If he meane by the pope and hys generacyon all the crystens nacyons not beynge cut of nor caste out for theyr obstynate malyce nor of wylfulnesse departyng out by sedycyouse scysmes then seeth he y â— marke at the leste wyse But then whyle he sayth that all these nacyons maye and hath all thys .viii. hundred yere so entyerly fallen in to heresyes and dampnable errours that by all thys .viii. hundred yeres laste passed vnto Luthers dayes nor yet vnto thys daye neyther there hath ben no one knowen congregacyon any where wherin y â— professynge of the very ryght catholyke fayth of Cryst hath bene so surely kepte that yt myghte there be surely lerned and knowen then I saye Tyndale ys as blynde as he that lacketh bothe hys eyes in that he seeth not that by thys waye he maketh our sauyoure Cryste that is very trewth to saye very false where he sayth I am wyth you to the ende of the worlde wolde make hym farre ouerseen where he commaunded that who so wolde not here the chyrche shulde be reputed and taken as Paynyms and Publicans and in many a playn texte of scrypture mo as I haue before shewed as well in my dyaloge as myne other thre formar bokes of this present worke and yet hereafter shall forther Moreouer yf Tyndale saye that all thys knowen corps of crystendome haue all these .viii. hundred yere ben in a wronge bylyefe where hath ben all thys whyle the ryght congregacyon of Tyndals chyrche that hath hâ—â— the trewe bylyefe And lette hym tell vs then whyche congregacyon it was or where any suche is yet of whom we maye surely lerne the trewe fayth and trewe vertues If he saye that it hath ben amonge these and was in thys chyrche but not of thys chyrch but they haue lurked there a few faythfull folke amonge the greate many multytude of the faythlesse and haue euer bene to the worlde and outwarde syghte of man vnknowen not so mych knowen as one of them to another but yet very well knowen to god to thys besydes that yf they haue lyen all thys whyle lurkynge therin they haue be then idolatres by theyr owne iudgemente in image seruyce and prayeng to sayntes yf Tyndals doctryne be the trewe faythe and starke ypocrytes in beynge of one bylyefe in theyr hartes and pretendyng another both in theyr wordes and dedes and besyde dyuerse other inuyncyble reasons wyth which I haue all redy reproued that fonde opynyoÌ„ in the seconde boke of my dyaloge where vnto Tyndale hath made so bare answere that it hadde ben more wysedome for hym to haue lette it all alone and medle nothynge therwyth as euery chylde almoste maye well perceyue that lyste to loke on them bothe and aduysedly compare them togyder as I shall my selfe set it forth vnto them when god shall after other thynges done gyue me tyme to come therto and besyde dyuers other argumentes euydent and playne whyche I partely haue partely shall alledge and brynge forth in thys present work this one can he neuer auoyde whyle he lyueth that god had then lefte euery man perplexed in dowte and out of certaynte what waye he myghte surely take and cleue vnto eyther in the doctryne of fayth or knowlege of vertuose lyuynge For yf he saye that we nede no knowen company but euery man maye rede the scrypture hym selfe euery man he woteth well can not rede nor euery man vnderstand it though he haue it in hys owne tonge but by the redynge wythout a reder maye soone fall into the dampnable errour of Arrius Heluidius and many a nother heretyke mo whyche of the scrypture thorow theyr owne pryde toke occasyon of theyr heresyes If he then saye that of that vnknowen congregacyon we maye haue a trew reder where shall I seke hym and wherby shall I knowe hym yf I happen on hym howe shall I be sure For in thys great knowen congregacyon we be saufe agaynste all suche parell For we be all agreed vppon the necessarye artycles of the fayth And yf any wolde preche and teche the contrary as he that wold percase teche that confessyon is not necessarye and that penaunce nedeth not and that of the .vii. sacramentes .v. serue of nought and the syxte of almost as lytell and that of the seuenth all crysten nacyons be and all thys .xv. hundred yere haue ben in a very damnable erroure he that thus wolde preache and teche suche habomynable heresyes as nowe Tyndale doth he maye be soone controlled accused and corrected excepte he ronne awaye as Tyndale doeth And wherby can we be sure that hys techynge whyche ys accusyd ys false and theyrs trewe that correcte hym but by that we be sure that the comen fayth of the catholyke chyrch is trewe and that the catholyke knowen chyrche can not erre in that fayth whych from hande to hande hath ben taken kepte from Crystes dayes and hys apostles hytherto whyche fayth muste nedes be trewe by Crystes promyse made vnto hys apostles as teachers of hys chyrche and not for them selfe but for hys chyrche that is to wytte the fayth that saynte Peter professed shulde not fayle and that god
se yet shall ye perceyue as well in hys chapyters folowynge as in thys same chapyter after that he putteth fayth alone for suffycyent and repentaunce as a shadowe that neuer can but folowe it And yet all hys thynges euer so darkely that he wolde fayne leue hym selfe some startynge hole But surely yt ys harde for hym to starte out fro these playne wordes of hys owne who so euer go to god by any other waye then thys fayth that saynte Peter confessed the same is an heretyke out of the ryght waye and not of Crystes chyrche For thys is no more to saye but who so euer bysyde the bare bylyefe wyth as bare repentynge adde confessyon or for synne punysshe hym selfe by penaunce or doth the better after bycause he hath done euyll byfore and hopeth that god shall eyther rewarde hym the more or haue the more mercy on hym or in purgatory punysshe hym the lesse he is a starke heretyke And of trouth so he is in dede yf thys false tale be trewe and all trewe men and all holy sayntes and all holy scrypture false But now gothe he forthe not in the profe but in the prayse and sayth Tyndale For thys knowlege maketh me a man of the chyrche More whyche knowledge the knowledge that a man nedeth no mo artycles in hys fayth now then saynt Peter confesseth then and that he maye not bysyde repentaunce and bylyefe vse any other waye to heuen that is to wytte he maye not therwythall vse as a waye to heuen or to remyssyon any sacramentall shryfte or penytencyall workes or dedes of cheryte towarde satysfaccyon The knowledge of thys fayth maketh Tyndale a man of the chyrche as he sayth But of whyche chyrche trowe ye truely not of the chyrch of Cryste whych bysyde that fayth hath instytuted y e fayth in his blessed sacramentes dyuers other artycles besyde which hath playnely declared y t all be it y e knowlege of hym hys pleasure by fayth be such a way toward heuen y t without it we caÌ„ not come thyther yet if we ioyne not to y â— knowlege good dedes or purpose of good workes neyther can that knowlege nor repentaunce neyther serue vs for a suffycyent waye to heuen And therfore Tyndale is not by thys knowlege made a man of Crystes trewe chyrche but syth he is content wyth the bare knowledge and setteth all good workes at so short he is made therby a man of the false chyrch of the deuyll that is a lyar hymselfe and father of all suche lyars Tyndale The chyrche is Crystes body Collosâ— 1. And euery person of the chyrche is a member of Cryste Ephe. 5. Now it is no member of Cryste that hath not Crystes spyryte in it as it is no parte of me nor member of my body wherin my soule is not present and quyckeneth it And then yf a man be none of Crystes he is not of the chyrche More Here Tyndale runneth in iuglynge by equyuocacyon of thys worde chyrche For where as hym selfe hath byfore thys tyme confessed in wrytyng in thys same boke to whiche I answere now that the chyrch in many places of holy scrypture is the hole multytude that professe the fayth of Cryste whyther they be good or badde here he fareth as though there were no man of the chyrche but onely good folke alone in whom is the spyryte of Cryste wyth an ensample put of the body hauyng some dede parte hangyng theron wherin were not the soule to quycken it and gyue it lyfe whyche therfore he sayth is no parte of the body But he forgeteth that somtyme there is some member astoyned and lacketh bothe lyfe and felynge whyche yet by the reason that it is not clene cut of and caste awaye receyueth after lyfe and felynge agayne as many a dedely synner doth in the body of Crystes chyrche take lyfe agayne that hath in synne lyen full longe dede But now is he yet of thys mynde that the fayth whych hym selfe hath descrybed is the thynge that it onys goten and hadde of any man kepeth in the spyryte of god so fast in hys harte that he ys surely a quycke member of the chyrche that ys Crystes body and that he can not lese that fayth nor that spyryte at any tyme after that he hath onys goten it so that he haue it as he sayth in another chapyter after felyngly and not onely hystorycally And who so euer haue not the fayth that he descrybeth hym he rekeneth for an heretyke and onely hys fayth for the trew and the byleuers therof for the trew chyrche Now hys fayth haue ye herde often inough that onely fayth suffyseth or at the leste wyse wyth repentynge that shryfte or penaunce toward heuen or remyssyon of synnes is heresye and that to wurshyppe the blessed sacrament of the aulter is dyshonour to god and that there is no purgatory and that frerys maye well laufully wedde nonnes and a greate rable of suche deuelysshe heresyes mo of such maner suit and sort that as our sauyour sayed vnto saynt Peter at the confessyon of hys fayth Thou arte blessed Symon the sonne of Ionas For flesshe and bloude hath not reueled thys vnto the but my father that is in heuyn so wyll he saye to Tyndale for confessynge of thys false fayth of his Thou art accursed Tyndale the sonne of the deuyll for neyther fleshe nor bloude hath taught the these heresyes but thyn owne father the deuyll that is in hell And thus well hath he quytte hym in thys chapyter Here endeth the confutacyon of thys chapyter of Tyndale whyther the chyrche can erre Here foloweth the next chapyter of Tyndale in which he sayth that a trew member of Crystes chyrche synneth not and that he ys yet a synner Tyndale How a trewe member of Crysâ—es chyrche synneth not and how he ys yet a synner More NOwe come we to the specyall poynte wherin Tindale gyueth vs a glorious demonstracyon of hys excellent hygh wytte and lernynge farre surmountyng the capacyte of pore popyshe men to perceyue how it myghte be possyble that any man synneth not and yet for all that synneth all waye styll But to the entent that Tyndale shall haue no cause to saye y t I deface hys gay goodly tale by manglynge of hys mater and rehersynge hym by patchys and pecys ye shall fyrst concernynge thys poynt here all hys hole chapyter to gether wythout any worde of hys eyther omytted or chaunged and after shall we consyder examyne y â— partes These are therfore hys wordes Tyndale Ferthermore he that hath thys fayth can not synne and therfore he can not be deceyued with dampnable errours For by thys fayth we be as I sayâ—e borne of god Now he that is borne of god can not synne for his seed dwâ—â—â—eâ—h in hym and he can not therfore synne by cause he is borne of god I. IohnÌ„ â— whyche seed is the holy goste that kepeth a mans herte from consentynge
by the outwarde dedes the chyldren of god and the chyldren of the deuyll be made manyfest open For they were not open by the dede yf notwythstandyng the most horryble dedes y t coulde be deuysed yet theyr secret vnknowen fayth frayltye dyd euer kepe it secrete hydde vnknoweÌ„ whyther they were at the dede doyng y â— chyldren of god or the deuyll And therfore where as Tyndale wold make vs wene y â— hym selfe hys holy felowes had by theyr felynge fayth the spyryte of god in such a specyall maner entred in to theyr holy brestes y t none of theyr abomynable dedes coulde be any dedely synne bycause y t the spyryte sayth he dwelleth styll within them saynt IohnÌ„ sayth in the very ende of that thyrde chapyter who so kepeth goddes commauÌ„demeÌ„tes in hym god dwelleth And by that marke we know sayth saynt IohnÌ„ y â— there is dwellynge in vs of the spyryt y t he hath gyuen vs. By whych wordes he declareth clerely y t when these holy heretykes breke his coÌ„mauÌ„demeÌ„tes by those horryble dedes which Tyndale hym selfe confesseth y â— they do as all the worlde seeth frere Luther do in weddyng the nuÌ„ne wyth the brech of theyr both vowys agaynst the coÌ„maundemeÌ„t of god which hath in holy scripture expressely coÌ„maunded them to kepe and fulfyll theyr vowys saynt IohnÌ„ I saye declareth agaynste Tyndals doctryne clerely that when we se suche dedes in them we maye well perceyue by them that there is at that tyme neuer a whyt of goddes good spyryte in them But now no man dowteth whyther of the two better vnderstode saynt IohnÌ„ whyther Tyndale or saynt IohnÌ„ hym selfe And therfore good crysten readers whyle ye se that these holy fathers and authours of these heresyes prechynge so sayntly of theyr felynge fayth boste them self and theyr felowes for the sure chyldreÌ„ of god that bycause of the spyryte can neuer synne of purpose and therfore neuer synne dedely but be certayne and sure of grace and saluacyon and yet ye se for all this that beyng professed muÌ„kes and freres they fall to the fleshely felynge of noÌ„nes of longe purpose and styll perceuer therin fynally dyuers dye therin to ye maye byleue here saynte IohnÌ„ that saye they what they wyll they be the deuyls chyldren in dede all theyr holy doctryne is vtterly no thynge ellys but very frantyke blasphemy And therfore fynally where as Tyndale knytteth vp all hys mater wyth a quyppe agaynste me and sayth that bycause euery man that onys hath the ryght fayth is born of god and therby hath the seed of god in hym whych preserueth hym so that he can neuer synne therfore it is sayth he a false conclusyon that M. More holdeth how a man maye haue a ryght fayth ioyned wyth all kyndes of abomynacyon and synne ye se now that hys owne conclusyoÌ„ is so clerely proued false that it letteth my conclusyon no thynge at all And yet shall I forther towche hys quyppe where it shall haue better place after that we shall come to the chapyters in whyche he shall open and declare hys vttermost what he calleth fayth But fyrste wyll I consyder a lytell hys ferther progresse in thys chapyter in whych he goth forth in thys wyse Tyndale And yet euery member of Crystes congregacyon is a synner and synneth dayly some more and some lesse For it is wryten .1 IohnÌ„ 1. yf we saye we haue no synne we deceyue our selues and the trâ—eth is not in vs. And agayn yf we saye we haue not synned we make hym a lyar and hys worde is not in vs. And Paul Rom. 7. sayth That good whych I wolde that do I not but that euyll whyche I wolde not that do I. So it is not I. that do it sayth he but synne that dwelleth in me More Lo now ye here hys wurshypfull rydle in the fyrst part wherof he hath all redy shewed vs that a trewe member of Crystes chyrch synneth not bycause it hath y â— ryght fayth and so is borne agayne of god and hath hys spyryt and by cause of that can neuer synne And now he sheweth vs in the tother parte of hys rydle that euery trewe member of Crystes chyrche for all that he neuer synneth yet he synneth dayly And as he proued the fyrste parte by the wordes of saynt IohnÌ„ falsely taken and vnderstanden so doth he now proue vs the seconde parte by the wordes of sayâ—t Poule vnderstanden construed as falsely as euer he coÌ„strued saynt IohnÌ„ For where as saynt Poule in hys pystle to y â— Romayns speketh of the pronytye and mocyons in the fleshe remaynynge as the relyques of orygynall synne wherby we be tycled towarde great actuall dedely synnes and dayly fall in to venyall Tyndale as appereth by hys wordes nexte after folowynge wolde we sholde wene that saynt Poule meneth that euery trew member may dayly fall into great horryble dedes as periury manslaughter and aduowtry of weykenes and fraylte and that all those abomynable dedes be no dedely synnes yet but venyall euerychone bycause it is not the man that doth it but the synne that dwelleth in hym And whyle saynte Poule sayth the wordes of hym selfe Tyndale so layeth them forth that he wolde we sholde take it that saynt Poule hym selfe â— or at the lest wyse yf not hym selfe yet the synne that dwelled in hym coÌ„mytted in very dede many suche horryble dedes as the deuyll and the fleshe dyd moue and styre hym to And then was it well lykely that he dyd inough For well ye wote y â— deuyll wolde not fere to set hys fâ—eshe on fyre and tempte hym to lechery manslaughter both whyle he fered not to â—empte our sauyour hym selfe to glotony couetyse pryde deuyll worshyp and selfe slaughteâ— to And saynt Poule hym self coÌ„fesseth that for a medicyne preseruatyue agaynst pryde there was gyuen hym the angell of Sathan the prycke of the flesh to dabbe hym in the necke and make hym stowpe and beâ—â— hym And it appereth playnely that Tyndale taketh saynte Poulys wordes spokeÌ„ of hym selfe to sygnyfye not oneâ—y styrynge and incytacyons towarde dedely synfull dedes but also the very dedes commytted and done as he calleth it of fraylte by the vyolence of those mocyons For yf he meane not so he layed those wordes nothyng to hys purpose as it appereth openly by those hys owne wordes folowynge Tyndale Thus are we synners and no synners No synners yf thou loke vnto the professyon of our hartes towarde the lawe of god on our râ—pentâ—unce and sorow thâ—t we haue bothe bycause we haue synned and also bycause we be yet full of synne styll and vnto the promyses of mercy in our sauyâ—ur Cryste and vnto our fayth Synners are we yf thou loke vnto the â—rayltye of our flesshe whyche is as the weakenesse of one that is newly recâ—uered out of a greate dysease by the reason wherof our dedes are imperfâ—t and by the reason wherof also
wordes as they be and as innocent and as simple as they seme yet in them meneth Tyndale couertly to come forthe with his poyson of false prechynge the predestinacyon of god with destrucion of the fre wyll of man concernynge any maner of deuoure of them selfe towarde the â—eleue and faythe For he â—â—neth here that god alway maketh the electes to se these thynges without any wyll of theyr owne any thynge workynge with god towarde the syght thereof and that all the reprobates that shal be dampned for lacke of the beleue be reprobated and reiected and lefte vnchosen and kept from the syght and perceyuynge of the thynges to be beleued without any demeryte or euyll deserte of theyr owne onely bicause god lyste nat to make them see And that Tyndale thus falsely meneth by those fayre playne wordes ye shall farther perceyue by other wordes of Tyndals owne wrytynge afterwarde in his answere to to the fyrste chapyter of the thyrde boke of my dyaloge For where as I there shewed that the very bokes of the scripture if selfe can nat make men beleue y t scripture nor very surely knowe whyche were the very true scripture of god and whiche were scriptures countrâ—fete sauyng that the catholyke churche techeth vs to knowe the scrypture and the spirite of god with mannes owne towardes and good endeuoure worketh in man the credulite and belefe by whiche we bothe beleue the churche in techyng vs whiche is the scripture also by whiche we beleue the thinges that are wrytten in the scrypture to this bycause I sayde there that whan we here the scrypture or rede it if we be nat rebellious but endeâ—our our selfe to beleue captyue and subdue our vnderstandyng to serue and folowe fayth prayenge for goddes gracious ayde and helpe god than worketh with vs and inwardely dothe inclyne our harte in to the assent of the thynge that we rede and after a lytell sparke of our faythe oâ—es had increaseth the credence in our incredilyte Tyndale to this in moâ—kage of mennes endeuour towarde the belefe and in scornynge that we wolde captyue our vnderstandyng into y e seruyce of fayth answereth me with an 〈◊〉 as exclamacion and cryenge out vpon my flesheâ—â—â—es and foly â—oâ—eth out his hyghe spirituall sentence in this 〈◊〉 oâ— Tyndale O hoâ—e betleblyâ—de is flesshely reason The wyll hath none operacion at all 〈◊〉 the workynge of faythe in my soule no more 〈◊〉 the chylde hathe in the begettynge of his fathe◠〈◊〉 sayeth Paule it is the gyfte of god and nat of vs. My 〈…〉 sâ—ewe â—e 〈…〉 or an appatent cause why yer my wyll haue any workynge at allâ— More Nowe perceyue you good christen reders what an vnchristen mynde this euyll christen man hathe in those wordes that seme so fayre and playne in this present chapyter For thoughe he speke nat out so plainly in this chapyter as he dothe after in his answere to my thyrde boke as ye haue here herde yet that he falsely meneth in eyther place alyke ye may yet more plainly perceyue by hys wordes y â— in this chapiter immedyatly folow which are such sa may be as well ioyned to his foresayde wordes of his answere vnto my thyrde boke as to the wordes vnto whiche they be knytte in this present chapyter In whiche whan he hathe sayed that god maketh his electes se theyr dampnation in y â— lawe and also the mercy that is layed vp for them in Christes bloode and therto what he wyll haue them do it foloweth than forthwith Tyndale And then when we se his mercy we loue hym agayne and chose hym and submytte our selues vnto his lawes to walke in them For when we erre not in wytte reason and iudgement we can not erre in wyll and choyse of thynges The choyse of mannes wyll doth naturally and of her owne accorde folow the iugement of a mannes reason whyther he iudge ryghte or wronge so that in techyng onely resteth the pyth of a mannes lyuynge More Now trust I good reders that it is inoughe that we perceyue and se what Tyndale entendeth in thys chapitre of the ordre of our eleccyoÌ„ and that for all hys great exclamacyon we be nat yet so betle blynd but that we spye well inough whyche way this wyly serpeÌ„t walketh and that he goth about vnder colour of the prayse and commendacyon of goddes predestinacionâ— and ordynaunce vtterly concernyng fayth to put a way the wurke of maÌ„nes fre wyll and yet ouer that though â—om what more couertely of trouthe concernyng all other good workes to And all be it that he seme here to gyue mannes wyll in maner lyke place in the acte of our loue toward god as he gyueth god in the worke of our belyefe and fayth in vs yet whan he is well perceyued he bryngeth all to suche ineuytable necessyte that both in the tone and the tother and in all maner of good workes he taketh vtterly away all manes of meryt from the good men and electes gyueth vnto the euyll peple and reprobatys an excuse for theÌ„ selfe and an occasion to lay the wight of there iuste dampnacioÌ„ to the vniustyâ—e of goddes eternall ordynaunce and moste ryghtuouse predestynacyon And yet are all hys reasons in thys greate mater so small that a man may nat well wyt whyther they be more wykked or more wyttelesse Nowe all be it that I shall purpose to treat of thys matter more at longe wyth Tyndale whan I shall come to the coÌ„nfutacion of hys fond answeres made vnto the thyrde fourth bokes of my dyaloge yet can I nat presently forbere som what to shewe you of hys abomynable errour in thys poynt And yet in good fayth me semeth no very great nede hys folyes after hys wordes of bothe the places brought forth and layde togyther be now so playne and euydent of them selfe For who is so betle blynde that seeth nat clerely y â— darke deuelysh heresye of thys hyghe spyrytuall heretyque that sayth it is a betle blynde fleshely reason to thynke that the good endeuour of the mannes parte in wyllyngly conformyng hym selfe towarde the fayth and captyuyng and subdewyng hys reason and vnderstandyng in to the obsequy and obedyent seruyce of belyefe shulde be no maner helpe nor furtheraunce towarde the gettyng of any â—rysten fayth but y â— the wyll hath none operacyon at all in the workynge of fayth in mannes soule no more than the chylde hath in the bygetting of his father For here ye se wel that we speke of suche as are of age and haue the vse of reason If mannes wyll had no more part towarde the attaynynge of the belyefe than the chylde hath in the bygettyng of hys owne father I se nat wherfore our sauyoure shulde call vppon the people and byd them do penaunce and beleue the gospell as he dothe in the fyrste chapytre of saynt Marke For though it be very trew that wythout goddes helpe and goddes grace preuentyng and foregoyng no man can
heuen whyther wolde Tyndale aduyse them thus whyche yf he dyd then sholde he teche them that mannys endeuoure towarde fayth is not a thynge to be mocked as hym selfe mocketh it now but that mannes own wyll doth somwhat more towarde it then doth the chylde to the bygettynge of hys owne father Or ellys wolde Tyndale forbydde them all suche thynges in any wyse tell them that theyr owne endeuoure wolde rather hynder and make theym ascrybe the fayth that is y e gyfte of god vnto the meryte goodnes of theyr owne wyll theyr owne towardenesse theyr owne prayours theyr owne coÌ„tynence almoyse dede fastynge and all theyr other endeuoure All whyche thynges yf Tyndale take for nought or peryllouse then is it lykely that he wolde of consequence aduyce those dyscyples of hys to be well ware of all suche thynges do none of theÌ„ in no wyse for the counsayle to such thynges coulde come but of betle blynde flesshely reason And therfore Tyndales dyscyples towarde the gettyng of the fayth to the entent they shulde take therof no parte vnto theyr owne prayse but gyue the hole glory to god sholde I saye by hys aduyse vse none endeuoure at all nor do no thynge nor saye no thynge nor thynke no thynge but sytte euen styll sadly and gape by daye agaynste the sonne by nyght agaynste the mone tyll eyther some blynde betle or some holy humble bee come flye in at theyr mouthes and buzze in to theyr brestes an vnholsome hepe of flye blowen errours and motthe eten heresyes And thus good chrysten readers the reason that Tyndale maketh vs agaynste the endeuoure of man towarde the attaynynge of fayth whyche endeuoure he mocketh calleth it a counsayle of betle blynde reason bycause fayth is the gyfte of god I dowte not I saye but that hys reason is suche that a man that were betle blynde in dede may perceyue well inough that Tyndale for lacke of good endeuoure hath had of the gyfte of god lytell wytte and lesse grace in makynge of that feble and vnlawfull reason Tyndals other reason agaynst the good endeuour of mannes wyll is thys Tyndale My wyt muste shewe me a trewe cause or an apparent cause why yere my wyll haue any workynge at all More Lette Tyndale set hys consequente and conclusyon to thys antecedent made of thys reason and saye My wytte muste fyrste shewe me some cause eyther trewe or somwhat semynge trewe before that my wyll can any thynge do at all ergo none endeuoure of my selfe in conformynge and applyenge of my wyll can any thynge do at all And now when hys argumeÌ„t is all made vp ye shall fynde it as full of reason as an egge full of mustarde For what though my wytte and reason muste fyrste set my wyll a wurke can yet my wyll when it is ones moued dyuersly bytwene two reasons no thynge do at all in remouynge an obstynat leâ—ynge to the tone syde or a conformable inclynacyon towarde the consent of the tother If all the fayth of suche trewthes as are taughte were in suche wyse inspyred into euery mannes harte that is a faythfull man as he by that inwarde inspyracion had such a full perfayt and clere perceyuynge therof in the inwarde syghte of the vnderstandynge as the bodyly eye hath of y â— thynge that it playnely seeth and loketh vppon or as the syghte of the soule hath in suche euydent and open conclusyons as it dothe playnely and openly byholde suche I meane as are the generall petycyons in the fyrste boke of Euclidis geometry as that euery hole thynge is more then hys owne halfe or suche other lyke then wold I well agre wyth Tyndale that when the thynge were so shewâ—d vnto my wytte I coulde not but agre therto wyth my wyll But I say that all be it god is able in suche wyse to inspyre and infounde the fayth yf that hym lyste yet I saye that ordynaryly into hys faythfull folke neyther fynall reprobates nor fynall electes for faythfull are at sundry tymes of both the sortes he gyueth not the bylyefe or fayth on that fasshyon For yf he dyd then were it not fayth nor bylyâ—fe but very syghte and knowlege And suche kynde of so certayne and open reuelacyon were vnto the man occasyon of bylyefe and credence necessaryly surely and ineuytable but therfore as it semeth neyther thankworthy nor rewardable Now dothe god wyth hys chrysten folkes ordynaryly take that waye in the gyuynge theym theyr bylyefe and fayth that though they do not meryte wyth any forgoyng good dedes nor deserue the gyfte of byleuynge yet maye they wyth good endeuoure and obedyente conformyte deserue and meryte in the beleuynge And therfore syth god wyll for that cause bynde vs to the bylyefe bycause he wyll that we meryte and be rewarded for our bylyefe the reason of whyche deserte and meryt on our parte standeth in the respecte and regarde that god hath to our obedyence by whyche we wyllyngly submytte our selues to the credence of goddes worde wryten or vnwryten tellynge vs any thynge agaynste oure owne reason tellynge vs the contrary then yf our bylyefe loste hys meryte as that holy pope saynte Gregory sayth it shulde yf reason playnely proued vs the thynge that we byleue so were the meryte of our bylyefe loste in lyke wyse yf the thynge were in suche wyse gyuen vs as we more perfytely perceyued it then we perceyue any suche as reason maye moste perfytely proue vs. And therfore I say that god dothe nat ordinaryly gyue into men the faythe in suche maner bycause he wyll nat vtterlye take awaye the meryte fro man for as moche as he hathe ordayned hym to ioye by the meane of some meryte some conflycte passyon or payne vpon his owne parte though nat sufficient worthy for as saynt Poule sayth all the passyons and sufferaunces of this worlde be nat worthy the glory that is to come that shal be releued in vs yet suche at the leste wyse as his hyghe goodnes accepteth and rewardeth for worthy thorowe the force and strength of those merytes y t are in dede sufficient worthy the merytes I meane of y â— bytter payne and passyon of his alone onely begotten and tenderly beloued sonne Than say I nowe that syth y â— faythe is nat ordinaryly with suche open ineuitable and inuincyble lyghtsomnes inspyred in to the soule that the man muste of necessyte and very fyne force clerely perceyue and agree it but by god prouyded so sufficiently to be shewed taught as he that wyll be conformable and walke with goddes grace may fynde good cause inoughe to captyue his reason to the belefe and yet nat so great and vrgent causes but that he whiche wyll be yll wylled and frowarde may let grace go and fynde him selfe cauellacyons prowdely to test vpon his owne reason agaynste the worde of god eyther sayenge that his reason seeth it nat sufficiently proued for goddes worde as Tyndale sayeth in all goddes
turned he to the trewe fayth agayne and exhorted them all vnto the same And thus good reders ye se that of hys order of eleccyoÌ„ Tyndale hath in thys chapyter hytherto sayed no thynge to purpose now shall ye se that as lytell he sayth to purpose in thys that after foloweth Tyndale And though goddes electe can not so fall that they ryse not agayne bycause that the mercy of god euer wayteth vpâ—n them to delyuer them from euyll as the care oâ— a kynâ—e father wayteth vppon his sonne to warne hym and to kepe hym from occasyoÌ„s and to call hym backe agayn yf he be gone to farre yet they forgette them selues oftymes â—nd synke downe into traunces and fall a slepe in lustes for a season But as soone as they be awaked they repent and come agayne without resystaunce More Here maketh Tyndale as thoughe he sayde a greate thynge And whan his wordes are well examyned he both meneth very falsely speketh folysshe wylyly For where he sayeth that an electe can nat so fall but that he shal ryse agayne he meaneth that of necessyte the electe muste nedes ryse agayne thorâ—we the mercy of god that euer wayteth vpon him whiche is very false For all be it that of trouthe the electe shall aryse agayne by meane of goddes grace and mercy yet myghte he if he wolde lye styll in synne whan goddes grace and mercye calleth vpon him and byddeth hym ryse as many reprobates do vpon whome goddes grace and mercye wayteth and calleth as faste as he calleth vpon hys electes and is as redy to helpe them vp agayne as y â— tother if they wolde ryse and that the malyce or slouthe of theyr owne wylles letted them nat to take holde of goddes grace and made them nat lye styll in synne lyke swyne Nowe that Tyndale thus meneth appereth playne by the whole processe of his worke wherin as concernynge saluacyon and dampnacyon he laboreth to make vs wene that the wyll of man dothe nothynge wyllyngly but were vtterly forced and ineuitably necessytat by the eternal eleccyon of god vnto glory and his eternall reprobacyon vnto payne whiche is as moche as to say that the wyll of man is no wyll at all any more than as he myght saye that the wyll of a tre were to growe and brynge forthe frute leaues and that the wyll of an axe were to hewe downe the tre whan a man smyteth the tre therwith And that â—e thus specially meneth in thys chapyter of the ordre of our eleccycon appereth as well in generall by the hole progresse therof as by this also that he assigneth that thynge as the onely difference betwene the electes and the reprobates alledgynge that the electes can neuer so fall but that they shall ryse by the reason that mercy wayteth euer vpon them wherby it well appereth that Tyndale meneth that no reprobate that is to wytte none that finally shal be dampned hathe goddes mercy whyle â—elyueth waytynge vpon him to call vpon him and styrre him to ryse out of his synne For excepte he ment so he shulde put electes reprobates all in one case if he sayde that the mercy of god which onely thinge he sayeth waytyng vpon the electe reyseth hym out of synne wayted vpon the reprobate to but if he shulde put some dyfference bytwene them by reason of y â— different workyng of theyr fre wylles whiche Tyndale wyll none of in no wyse Now menynge falsely thus he vseth yet in hys speche a folysshe wylynes as doth a cony that couereth her hed and weneth all were well when all her loynes be open For he sayth that the electes can not so fall but that they shal be so saued bycause mercy wayteth vppon them And therin he sayth truth For yf god had not foresene that they wolde fynally turne agayne to hym and wyth helpe of hys grace deserue to be parte takers of the merâ—tes of Chryâ—tes passyon and so to be saued he wolde not haue elected theÌ„ to saluacyon But he meneth that they shall necessaryly be saued so that they shall not mow other then repent amend as soone as god of hys mercy calleth vpon them to repent And thys though he thus mene yet doth he dyssymule it and sayth not that bycause mercy wayteth euer vponÌ„ them therfore they muste nedes ryse after theyr fall but bycause mercy wayteth vpon them therfore they shall ryse But thys poynt he layeth so open in many places of his worke that it is but a folysshe wylynes of hym to wene it well couered thus wherfore he were as good to speke out playnely tell vs whyther he mene y â— after a fall mercy wayte any more vpon any reprobate or not If he say nay he sayth agaynst the scryptures playne For as in the begynnyng god of his greate mercy calleth vppon all people bothe electes and reprobates to come to hym so doth he after bothe twayne coÌ„men and receyued and gone a waye by synne agayne call ordynaryly vppon them bothe of hys lyke mercy styll as longe as they lyue in thys worlde here and wolde yf they wolde assente therto them selfe and obaye be as gladde to fynde them agayne as euer he was to wynne them before as the wordes of holy wrytte be playne in the Apocalyps I stande at the dore and knocke And yf Tyndale wyll auoyde thys he muste then saye that all the wordes of holy scrypture by whyche god called vppon the people to repentaunce be spoken onely to the electes And theÌ„ must he tell euery man how he may know hym selfe for electe leste he maye wene that they pertayne not to hym And then shall he by the same reason saye that all the coÌ„maundementes be wryten vnto the onely electes to and then the reprobates can not be reproued for the not obseruynge of them yf they were not wryten for them But surely if Tyndale tell vs that the mercye of god wayte vpon the onely electes and onely calleth vpoÌ„ them he telleth vs a vayne folysshe tale And so he dothe in dede for so he meneth in dede agaynste the playne scripture and all the olde interpretours of the same and agaynste all the olde holy doctours of Chrystes churche and agaynste the catholyke faythe of all christen nacyons this .xv. hundreth yere from the tyme of our sauyour hym selfe his blessyd apoâ—telles euen vnto lowsy Luther dayes And yet natwithstandinge that he semeth to assygne the cause of the rysynge of his electes out of theyr synne to be by the mercy of god alwaye waytyng vpon them yet handeleth he the mater so that a man may nat well wytte by these wordes of his whether he meane that whaÌ„ his electe is sonken downe into his traunces and fallen a slepe in his lustes as he calleth it for a season whether he meane I say that mercy calleth vpon hym in his traunce shaketh hym out of his slepe or els let him slepe styll in hys lustes and the deuyll
Heluidius Ennomius Marcion Montanus wyclyffe and Husse and a sorte of lewde wedded freres as Luther and Lambert and Huyskyn or prestes apostataas from the chrysten fayth as Pomeran Suynglius and Huchyn here hym selfe If he name you these let hym proue them onys good men or at y e lest wyse some one amonge them all let hym proue theyr doctryne agreable or at the leste wyse obstynately not repugnaunt let hym that sheweth any ferther thynge then hys felowes by some maner meane proue hym selfe sent by god or such a man at the leste wyse as the people myghte haue cause to reken hym for hys lyuynge a man very lykely for god in so greate a mater to chese oute specially and sende forth on hys errande But thus ye wote well that of all these that are dede the worlde hereth not a good worde that euer there was one good of them but openly condempned for false And as for these that nowe lyue we se well at our owne eyen they be starke rybaudes allâ— And agrement in theyr doctryne neyther is there none now nor neuer was there yet Myracles as shamelesse as they be they can not for shame saye that euer they shewed any So that these were neuer any of the holy men whom god hath sent to call home hys chyrche so often from idolatry to â—ayth as Tyndale sayeth that the hundred prophetes an hundred tymes called home the Iewes And yet suche muste he shewe yf he saye aughte to purpose And therfore yf these heretykes wyll nowe be resembled to Chryste and hys apostles and to saynt IohnÌ„ let Tyndale tell vs whyche of them to whyche of these If these be now sent to call the catholyke chyrche to the ryghte faythe from whyche it was fallen before as Chryst was and hys apostles wyth saynt IohnÌ„ hys fore goer to call home the synagoge than lette Tyndale now tell vs whyche of them he resembleth to saynte Iohan whyche to Chrystes apostles and whyche vnto Chryste hym selfe And yf he lyken Luther to Chryste thenne who was Luthers saynte IohnÌ„ Babtyste and fore goer or ellys whose fore goer and baptyste is Luther to whome maketh he the waye now as the tother dyd to Chryst I wene in good fayth to Antechryst and so forth to the deuyll of hell How be it of treuth holy prophetes hath there bene sent vnto the worlde by god and into the chyrche of Chryst mo then an hundred syth the deth of Chryste to kepe in the ryghte fayth and calle home the people fro synne by the trewe doctryne of the spyryte inspyrynge theym the ryghte sense of scrypture what so euer god wolde haue knowen besyde whose doctryne in the necessary poyntes dyd agre togyther and which were holy men so knowen well whyle they lyued and so taken after theyr deth declared for goddes messengers by many a myghty myracle Of these men may I name full many of sundry tymes as saynt Ignaciusâ— saynte Policarpus saynte Cypriane saynte Basile saynt Crysosteme saynt Leo saynt Hylary saynt Ierome saynt Ambrose saynte Austayne Now yf Tyndale dare saye that hym self meneth these then say we that none of these called vs to Tyndals fayth For none of them dyd constrewe the scrypture as Tyndale doth And therfore hys fayth is not Chrystes fayth nor Tyndals doctryne agreable and consentynge to theyrs For yf Tyndale dare saye that hys doctryne and theyrs agree lette Tyndale then of theym all name vs now some oâ—e that euer called relygyous persons to the brech and coÌ„tempte of theyr vowes and sayd that chastyte was an vnlawfull vowe wolde that monkes and freres sholde ruÌ„ne out and wedde nonnes Then syth that of hys hundred prophetes bytwene Moyses and Cryste Tyndale leueth of foure score and nynetene and is content to take no mo but saynt IohnÌ„ to shewe that hym selfe doth go from the catholyke chyrche rebuke the doctryne therof as saynt IohnÌ„ dyd fro the synagoge rebuked the doctryne of the phareseys he muste shewe vs as I answered him iÌ„ my sexte boke y â— or he proue saynt IohnÌ„ and hym selfe matches in that poynt he muste proue that hym selfe was prophecyed vppon to be the fore goer of some newe Cryste as good as euer was the olde He muste also shewe vs hys lyuynge somewhat more lyke the lyuynge of saynt IohnÌ„ then it appereth yet Also bycause he sheweth no myracles he muste proue vs that hys newe Chryste to whome hym selfe is the fore goer must do suche myracles as our olde Cryste dyd and then bere wytnesse of Tyndale hys holy baptyste as oure Cryste bare wytnesse of the tother And all thys in hys lyfe besyde myracles many shewed for hym when he is dede Fynally yf he wyll saye as he meneth here and playnely sayth in hys other solucyon to the fyrste reason that he and hys felowes do now rebuke the doctryne of the catholyke chyrche in lyke maner as saynt IohnÌ„ the baptyste Cryst dyd rebuke the doctryne of the scrybes and pharyseys he muste proue vs that of those scrybes and pharyseys which taught the doctryne that saynt IohnÌ„ baptyste and our sauyour rebuked were holy men and saynteâ— For els sayeth Tyndale no thynge to the purpose for â—s myche as hym selfe can not saye naye but that many of those that haue taught the thynges that Tindalâ— and Luther now rebuke were holy doctours and sayntes of euery age synnes Crystes dayes to theyr owne And thus ye se good readers that where Tyndale byddeth vs loke vppon the olde ensamples and then pyketh out specyally saynt IohnÌ„ Baptyste to resemble hym selfe hys prechynge to and hys demeanure agaynste the catholyke chyrche vnto saynt IohnÌ„ and his demeanure toward the synagoge is as vnlyke as are whyte and blacke Now shall ye well perceyue that the persons of saynte IohnÌ„ Baptyste and of syr wyllyam Tyndale be not mych more vnlyke no nor so farre vnlyke neyther not by a great dele as are the thynges that saynte IohnÌ„ reproued in the doctâ—yne of the scrybes pharysyes and the thynges whyche Tyndale reproueth in the doctryne of the catholyque chyrche How be yt Tyndale to make them seme lyke dyssymulyng the greatest thynges of most weyght pyketh oute a fewe thynges wherin he wolde make the mater seme somwhat lyke yet fyndeth he none very lyke And ouer that where they seme lyke he maketh theym seme lyke wyth lyenge For fyrste he begynneth as ye haue herde wyth the false glose of the pharysyes by whyche many of them falsely coÌ„strynge goddes commaundement of honourynge theyr father and mother mysse taughte the people that what nede so euer theyr father and mother had yet yf they offred vnto god they dyd better then yf they holpe theyr father theyr mother therwyth And when he hath tolde this of the pharysyes then resembleth he the doctryne of the chyrche ther to and sayth As ours now afâ—erme that yt is more merytoryâ—use to â—fâ—re to god and his holy sayntes
the cytye and sayde come and se a man that hath tolde all that euer I dyd is he not Cryste and many of the Samarytanes byleued bycause of the saynge of the woman how that he had told her all that euer she dyd and went oute vnto hym and desyred hym to come in whych fayth was but an opynyon and no fayth that could haue lasted or haue brought out frute but when they haâ—de herde Cryste the spyryte wrought and made them fele Wheruppon they came vnto the woman and sayde we byleue not nowe bycause of thy saynge but bycausâ— we haue harde oure selfes and knowe that he is Chryste the sauyour of the worlde For Chrystys preachynge was wyth power and spyryte that maketh a man fele and knowe and worke to and not as the scrybes and pharysyes preached and as cures make a man redy to câ—st his gorge to heare them raue and rage as madde men And therfore sayth the scrypture cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh â—elshe his arme that is to say his strength Anâ— euen so cursed is he that hath no nother bylyefe but bycause men so saye Cursed were he that had no nother why to byleue then that I so say And euen so cursed ys he that byleueth onely bycause the pope so sayth and so forthe thorow out all the men in the worlde More Lo good crysten reders here haue I geuen you hys whole tale to gether to the ende of his whole chapyter whyche houerly loked on and redde ouer plesauntly with hym that lyketh hyt ere euer he loke on yt for fauoure of the secte can not but seme very gay But who so consyder yt aduyse yt well he shall fynde not one pyece of treuthe therin farther then I haue all redy shewed you in the end of hys fyrste solucyon where I touched in few wordes scant spendynge foure lynys therin that y â— mynde of saynâ— Austayn was and is I wene of all good men besydes that when we byleue the chyrche eyther in knowynge whyche is the scrypture or in the trewe sense and ryghte vnderstandynge of the scrypture god both preuenteth vs in geuyng vs the occasyon and wurketh wyth vs and we wyth hym into the perfytynge of our consent and bylyefe as he doth towarde the perfayt accomplysshement of euery thynge wherby we walke towarde our saluacyon towarde whyche we can no thynge do wythout hym as hym selfe sayth wythoute me nothynge can you do so that the inwarde secrete cause wurkynge wyth vs is hym selfe But ordynaryly god vseth outwarde meanys and instrumentes such as euery man may sumwhat by the same gyue a reason and cause of hys owne faythe to an other man and therby tell hym that for the same causes the man to whome he telleth theym sholde of good reason folowe and byleue a lyke And in these meanes lyke as god vseth the bodyly senses whyche we call the fyue wyttes as wayes and meanes towarde that vnderstandynge whyche men attayne by reason though there be somtyme bytwene the reason and the bodyly senses some debate and variaunce so dothe he vse bothe the seruyse of the bodyly senses and of the reason of the soule towarde the seruyse of the fayth addynge therwyth bycause it is a thyyge farre aboue the nature of them bothe hys owne supernaturall ayde and helpe of hys supernall grace to preuent vs wyth occasyons and mocyons of bylyefe and walkynge on wyth vs excepte we leue of our selfe to the perfaytynge of bylyefe in our hartes and helpynge vs to inclyne oure myndes into the credence of those outwarde causes and motyues whyche wythout hys helpe in thynges ordeyned of god for the waye to heuynwarde we sholde not haue done nor of goddes ordynary course we sholde not haue byleued wythout some such outwarde sensyble causes neyther as is prechynge and myracles and some suche other And therfore as I before shewed you saynte Austayne all be it that without helpe of god he byleued not the catholyke chyrche nor wythout helpe of god knewe and byleued the scrypture by the catholyke chyrche yet he alledged vnto those heretykes the Manichays not that inwarde cause the secrete helpe of god that wroughte wyth hys wyll and hys reason in geuynge credence to those outwarde causes for whyche he sayth that he byleued the chyrche for therin myghte the Manicheys fayne theym selfe hys matchys say that the were inspyred and that they felte theyr inspyracyon in theyr hartes so felyngly that therby they perceyued that Manicheus theyr archeretyke was the very apostle of Cryst and that saynt Austayne eyther had no suche felynge or ellys a false felynge and was begyled And therfore as I saye saynt Austayne layed them not that inwarde cause but the outwarde causes of hys byleuynge the chyrche whyche were so good and effectuall that the heretykes neyther coulde nor neuer can be able to brynge the lyke for them selfe And then layeth he the same chyrch by those outwarde reasons so proued trewe for the outwarde open cause of the knowlege and bylyefe of the very scrypture and then doth the scrypture beynge by that outwarde cause that is to wytte by the chyrche well perceyued and knowen for the word of god bere wytnesse also is an other outward cause of the more sure and perfayte knowlege that the knowen catholyke chyrche is the very trewe chyrch of Cryst here in erth that all other are vtterly fayned false bothe by the manyfolde textes of the scryptute expressely declaryng it as saiÌ„t Austayn sheweth also for that very reason sheweth that god gyuynge the gyfte of knowlege which is his trew scrypture to a chyrch vnto none but one or by that one wolde neuer gyue that specyall goostely gyfte and prerogatyue vnto any false chyrche and than byd the trew chyrche go lerne the trouth of the false Now good chrysten readers thys waye went saynt Austayne wyth suche outwarde causes as myghte of reason lede the reader wyth hym But now cometh Tyndale and seynge that he can not auoyde the reason of saynt Austayn neyther wyth samples of saynte IohnÌ„ and the pharyseys whyche he broughte in dysguysed of dyuers fasshyons to make one answere seme twayne nor wyth false glosynge of saynt Austaynes wordes wherin ye se Tyndale proued playne false he cometh now and confesseth that same outwarde cause of fayth vnto the scrypture grauntyng that hym selfe and euery man ellys knoweth it and byleueth it fyrst thorow the catholyke chyrch But then flyeth he forth frome the fayth of the chyrche vnto hys felynge fayth by which he now knoweth byleueth y â— scrypture as he sayth and no lenger by the chyrche And â—herin he playeth by hys felynge fayth as hys felowes do by theyr remembraunce For yf any heretyke be taken and examyned vpon his oth of any maner thynge whych he wyll not confesse for hope that it can not be proued nor dare well deny it for fere that it wylbe proued as whyther he sayd such a thynge
were then all his solucyon confounded But this peyce is also nought for a nother thynge For in this patche he supposeth that for y e fayth of Cryste there coulde not be gyuen so good an outwarde cause but that some better myght be made agaynst yt or at the leste some suche as myght appere the better But I say that excepte obstynacy forwardnes be in the mynde of hym to whom yt shall so seme yt is ellys a thynge impossyble that euer there shall be layed so great outewarde thynges agaynste the fayth of Cryst as shall be layed for yt But the reasons all redy made and the thynges all redy shewed for y â— fayth are suche as euery resonable man standynge but indyfâ—erent and voyd of obâ—tinate forwardnâ—sse yf the mater were but the trouth of a â—tory and not the meane of maÌ„nis saluacyon might well descerâ—e all that may be made agaynst yt to be farre the weker parte And now beynge this mater the meane of mannys saluacyon towarde the bylyef wherof god worked Tyndales tale is myche the flebler For ellys geue we them a great excuse that lest not to byleue the trouthe But oure lorde sayth vnto the prechers of hys sayth whome he sent to preache to all the worlde that he wolde geue theym a â—outh and wysedome therin that no man shold be able to resyâ—te the reasons wyth whych they shold conferme yt In â—hych wordes our lord ment not y t euery man wolde for all those reasons of prophecyes myracles martyrs and many other thynges bysydes consente and agree to byleue but that all be yt of abâ—tynacy they wolde not yet to theym that were indyfferent yt sholde well apthat they coulde neuer be able sufâ—ycyently to answere theÌ„ but that they myghte euer by playne outwarde proues be sustancyally confounded and the trew byleuer able alway to declare to the false and faythlesse an outward cause suffycyent of his fayth and hopâ— whyche the tother myghte frowardly saye he wolde not but reasonably could he neuer say why he shold not beleue and geue credence vnto And thus ys lo the fyrste parte of Tyndales dyâ—tynccyon deâ—troyed Now is the seconde partâ— his felyng fayth whych is he sayth that bylyefe and fayth not that a man hath goten and conceyued in hys harte by herynge of other men but by y e playne experyeÌ„ce of his owne felynge And wyth this felyng fayth byleueth he y â— batayle that hath not herd other men talke therof told yt hym but hath hym self both ben present therat aud also ben wounded therin Nor no man byleueth wyth the felyng fayth that the fyre is hote tyll he haue at the leste wyse burned his fynger in yt For all ys but hystorycall fayth byfore Nowe good cristen reders by this tale Tyndale telleth vs that all the credence whyche he gaue vnto the chyrche in takynge the bokes of the foure euangelystes for the very gospelles of Cryste was all to gether but lyke Tyndales mothers blowynge vppon her fynger and therby makynge that prety babe her sonne byleue that the fyre was hote and hadde burned her and that he wolde haue byleued her no lesse yf she hadde tolde hym the same by a cuppe of colde water And that in lyke wyse as he byleued the chyrche that the gospelles were holy scrypture so shold he haue byleued theym yf they hadde tolde hym that a tale of Robben hode hadde ben holy scrypture For syth all was but an hystorycall fayth all muste nedes haue ben one Consyder by the way good reder the dyfference betwene saynt Auâ—tayne and the good man Tyndale in theyr credence geuen vnto the chyrche Saynte Austayne byleued the chyrche in teachynge hym whyâ—h was the trewe scrypture bycause he perceyued well the same chyrch to be so declared by miracles many other menes to be y e trew chirch that therby he byleued that the doctryne therof coulde not be false and that therfore yt could not teache a tale of Robbyn hode to be the gospell of Cryâ—te Now Tyndale as ye se taketh the credeÌ„ce of the whole catholyke chyrch the â—â—der of euery maÌ„nys cristendome lyke his ovne moder blowynge vpon her fynger and therby makynge the babye byleue what she lyâ—te And therfore in this poynt wherin saynte Austayne and the good man Tyndale tell you two so dyuerse tales consyder well with your self the wysedom the lernynge the maners the vertue of those â—wo â—â—n and then of them both loke whome ye fynde beste and by myne aduyse euen hym byleue beste But now doth Tyndale he sayth byleue the trouth that not a tale of Roâ—ben hode but the bokes of the foure euangelystes be the tâ—â—w gospell of Chryâ—te bycause oure lorde â—ath hem self so taught it hym and so shewed yt hym now that all that he hath heâ—â—â— theâ—â—â— vyfore by the teachyng of the catholyque chyrche moueth hym nothynge at all for now he hath an inwarde profe and experyence therof and fully and sensybly feleth yt as he feleth the fyre hote by the burnynge of his fynger And as he feleth yt thus in hym selfe so he perceyueth yt is with all y â— other electes the meÌ„bers of his trew chyrch and that therfore of all them there is none that knowe the scrypture by the catholyke chyrche but by theyr owne sure secrete felynge suche as they fele when they burne they re fyngers This is the tale ye wote well that Tyndale telleth vs. But now is yt perde good reason that Tyndale tell vs also by what meane he proueth yt or ellys at the leste wyse that he tell vs some cause resonable wherfore we sholde in so straunge a mater byleue hys bare worde For furely though that in any such thynge as he wyll saye that he feleth hym selfe in his owne breste and theruppon take hys othe vppon hys honesty that he feleth yt in dede reason requyreth for lakke of other tryall that we byleue his owne worde consyderynge that we may be ledde to byleue hym by the long experieÌ„ce of the contynuall lyeng that we haue euer therfore fouÌ„den in him yet that the lyke felyng is also in all his felowes hartes how feleth he And therfore howe can he desyre that we sholde therin byleue hym wythoute profe namely syth we se that hys owne hyghe spyrytuall mayâ—ter mayster Martyne Luther hym selfe for all hys hygh fleshely vertues layeth not in that mater such feling for his owne fayth but well lyketh and mych alloweth the hystorycall fayth of saynte Austayne and playnely confesseth hym selfe that the chyrche that â—aynte Austayne spake of that is to wyt the knowen catholyke chyrch hath that gyft gyuen of god that yt shall perfytely dyscerne the wordes of god from the wordes of men â—nd therfore â—hall neuer take and teache a tale of Robben hode for the trew scripture of god Now therfore as I say Tyâ—dale muste proue vs this felynge fayth at the lest wyse fâ—â— the fayth of his felowes or ellys shall
there no man in the very chyrche but onely at suche tyme as he is so clene and pure wythout spot or wrynkell that saynte Peter may fynde no faâ—te in hym And then be there in dede very few of yt and very seld And yf any man be of yt one selfe man is peraduenture of the chyrche and not of the chyrche seuen tymes in a day For as the scrypture sayth Seuen tymes falleth the ryghtuouse man and shall aryse agayne And therfore this chyrche can no man know to lerne any thynge of her whyche he may reken hym selfe the surer of bycause thys holy chyrche teacheth yt hym But therto answereth Barons and sayth This chyrche is a spyrytuall thynge and no exteryour thynge but inuysyble fro carnall yiâ—s 〈◊〉 fayth is and her cleÌ„nesse and purenesse is afore Cryâ—te onely and not afore the worlde for the worlde hath no iudgement nor â—nowledge of her This is somwhat straunge that this chyrche sholde be inuysyble when yt is made all of men and women of whyche euery one is vysyble But therto answereth also frere Barons and sayth I say not that they be inuisyble that be of the chyrch â—ut that holy chyrche is her selfe inuysyble Then aske we hym what is holy chyrche her selfe and to that answereth he nothynge but that holy chyrche her selfe is a congregacyon of good crysten men and good crysten women of whyche euery one is vysyble but the congregacyon of them is inuysyble Uery well declared as though he wold tell vs that there were a woman that went inuysyble and that he ment not that her handes or her fete or her hed or any parte of her were inuysyble but all her partes beynge vysyble her self were yet inuysyble And as he myght tell vs that of Poules chyrch we may well se the stones but we can not se the chyrce And then we may well tell hym agayne that he can not se the wood for the trees To say that the whole thynge is inuysyble wherof he sayth we may se euery part is a thyng aboue me pore wyt and I suppose aboue his to to make his saynge trew But peraduenture he meaneth yf he coulde speke that though we may se yt we can not know yt bycause he sayth yt is spyrytuall For I may se a man that is spyrytuall yet not know hym for spyrytuall as a man myghte haue sene frere Barons when he came laste into the lande by the kynges lycence and yet myght happely not haue knowen hym all though he had knoweÌ„ hym byfore but haue taken hym for a monstre he hadde so monstrousely dressed hym self bycause he wold be woÌ„dred on And yet when he waxed after a shamed of hiÌ„ self bycause he could no better answer for his heresyes and that his false folyshe hope had fayled hym he shaved his berd and went lyke a merchauÌ„t of elys skynnys And then a man myght haue met hym and vpon his name rehersed myght haue knowen hym for Robert Barons and yet not know hym for a frere But yf he had ones knoweÌ„ hym for a frere he myght then vpon the syght haue knowen hym for an apostata But as farre forth as coÌ„cerneth syght a spyrytuall man is no more inuysyble in this worlde then is a carnall and therfore the spyrytuall chyrche may be sene though the spyrytualyte therof be not sene nor yt vppon the bare syghte perceyued and knowen for suche But I wyll not stryue myche wyth frere Barons for a worde The man is so sore bysyed aboute his rethoryque that yt is no meruayle though he can not entende to speke reason nor trew english neither as appereth where he traÌ„slateth lernynge for teachynge in his fyrste declaracyon of this worde ecclesia rehersynge the wordes of saynte Poule to the Corynthies thus I haue sent vnto you Tymothe the whych shall lerne you my ways that be in Cryste Iesu as I do lerne euery where in all coÌ„gregacyoÌ„s As though saynt Poule had lerned in euery congregacyon where he came and euery man taught hym and not he theym And though that some vnlerned vse this worde lerne for thys worde teache wyth his accusatyue case set out as Rychard lerneth Robert yet saith no man but Barons Rychard lerneth at Oxforde for Rycharde teacheth at Oxford But this is specyally to be noted that he sayth after that this chirch can not erre she cleueth so fast to y â— word of god that is the veryte And for this cause he sayeth that saynte Poule calleth her the pyller and ground of trouth not that she is so sure of and in her own strenght but that she stykketh so faste to the lyuynge god and to his blessed word Now good reder consyder that no man sayeth that the chyrche hath his suerty of yt self but of god and of his spyryte euer abydyng in yt accordynge to the manyfolde promyse of Cryste and therfore we nede not frere Barons to tell vs this tale But consyder now well agayn that Bâ—rns here grauntynge that the very chyrche can not erre but is as saynte Poule sayth the pyler and grounde or fote of the pylare of trouth because it cleueth to god ought here to ponder that this worde the pyler and this worde the grounde or the fote of the pyler do not barely signyfye strength in the standynge by them selfe but they sygnyfy therwyth the beryng vppe of some other thyngeê and that they be sure thynges for some other thynges to reste and lene vppon as the roâ—e of a chyrche is borne vppe from ruyne and fallynge by the pylers vppon whych yt resteth And therfore these wordes of saynt Poule sygnyfye not onely that the chyrche can not in yt selfe fall into the ruyne of dampnable errour but also that lyke as the pyler is a sure thynge for an house to reste vppon and the grounde or fote of the pyler called in laten baâ—is whyche is the thynge that Barons mysse translateth here the grounde is the thynge wheruppon the pyller standeth sure so is the chyrche the pyller and the fote or grouÌ„d of trouth vppon whose doctryne euery man may reste and stande sure And for this cause doth the holy doctours vse and alledge those wordes to proue therby not onely that the chyrche can not damnably erre in yt selfe but also that therfore euery man surely may and of dutye must geue credence to the chyrche and byleue yt and lene therunto as vnto a sure pyller and stande fast theruppon as vppon a sure fote of a pyller that can not fayle Now good readers yf the very chyrche whych can not erre be a coÌ„gregacyon inuysyble and a coÌ„pany vnknoweÌ„ though euery one of them haue the very treuth in him self yet yf I can not know that chyrche I can not lene to that chyrche as to a sure pyller of trouth syth I can not knowe it for the very chyrche though I sholde happen on it And thus ye se good reders that frere Barns vnknoweÌ„ chyrche can not
now wyll he not fayle of lykelyhed to proue vs playnely some people some where so pure and so clene wythout spotte or wryncle of synne that saynt Peter can fynde no fawte in them Lo thus good reders he proueth it Barons To thys I answere that thys holy chyrche hath synne in her and yet is she pure and clene Marke saynt Poulys wordes Chryste hath gyuen hym selfe for her that he myghte make her gloryouse so that the clennesâ—e of this holy chyrch is the mercy of good towarde hyr thorow Chryste for whose sake he layeth nothynge to her charge ye and yf any other person wolde he is reddy to gyue hâ—r hys clennes and to let her by fayth clayme of ryghte hys puernesse for hyr owne For byâ—wene them all is commen as bytwene man and wyfe So that yf the chyrche loke on her owne merytes and of hyr own workes she is full of synne and must nedes say dimitte mihi debita The whiche she nedyd not to saye yf she had none But yf she referre hyr selfe vnto the merytes of her blessed husbonde Chryste Iesus and to the clennes that she haâ—h in his bloude than is she wythout spotâ—e For by the reason that she stycketh â—y fayth so faste vnto hyr husbande Chryste and doth abyde in confessyon of hyr synne and requyreth mercy foâ— theym therfore is there no thynge layed to hyr charge but all thynge is forgyuen hyr And therfore sayth saynt Poule there is no damâ—nacyon vnto them that be in Chryste Iesu. And that thys maye be the playneâ— I wyll brynge you saynt Austayns wordes the whyche was vexed of the Donatystes with thys same reason that is layde agaynste me Hys wordes be these The hole chyrche sayth for geue vs our synnes wherfore she hath spottes and wrincles But by knowledging of theym her wryncles be extended and stretched oute by knowledgynge her spottes are washed away The chyrch abydeth in prayour that she myght be clensed by knowledgynge of her synnes As longe as we leue her so standeth yt and when we shall departe oute of this bodye all suche thynges be forgeuen to euery man wherfore by this meane the chyrche of god is in the treasours of god wythout spot and wryncles And therfore here do we not lyue wythout synne but we shall passe from hens wythout synne c. Here haue you clerely that the chyrch of god is clensed and puryfyed by Crist for knowledging of her synnes and not by her owne purenes Wherfore suche a chyrche there muste nedes be though that the carnall yie can not se her nor fleshely reason can iudge of her Wherfâ—re we beleue this artycle by fayth that holy chyrche is a communyon or felyshyppe of holy men and know yt not by seyeng or felynge as we do the fellyshyppe of drapers or mercers for then were yt none artycle of the fayth And yt is playâ—â— that all your exteryour sygnes wyth all your holy ornamentes as your hâ—â—y myters your holy crosse staues your holy pyâ—leas and pollaxes your holy red gloues your holy ouches and your holy ringes your holy anointed fingers your holy vestimentes your holy chalices and your holy goldeÌ„ shewes ye take aâ—so to heâ—pe you saynte Thomas of Canterberis holy showe with all the holy bâ—tyâ—â—â— hâ—â—y munkes and all these to gether can not make one crumme of holynes in you nor helpe you one prycke forward that you may be within this chyrche For yf 〈◊〉 thynges could helpe then were yt no mystery to make an asse to be of the chirch of god But our holy mother the chyrche hath a nother holynes that commeth from god the fader thorow the sweat blood of his blessed son Iesu Cryste in whom is all her confydens and truste Vnto whom she stycketh only by steâ—faste fayth by whose purenes she is also pure in that that she doth confesse her vncâ—enes for she byleueth stedfastly that she hath an aduocate for her syn to the father of heuen whyche is Cryste Iesus And he is the satysfaccyon for her synnes And he of his mercy and not of her merytes hath choâ—sen her for to be his And bycause she is hys therfore must she be clene so longe as she abydeth in hym Thys is wyll declared in saynte IohnÌ„ where our mayster Cryste is compared to the vyne and all the members of holy chyrche to the branches that as the branches can brynge forth not frute of them selfe so can holy chyrche of her selfe brynge forth no goodnes excepte she remayne in Cryste by perfyte fayth Thys is well proued by your owne law whose wordes be these therfore ys the chyrche holy bycause she byleueth ryght wisely in god c. Here you not the cause wherfore the chyrche is holy bycause she beleueth ryht wysely in god that is she byleueth in nothynge but in hym and she byleueth nor hereth no worde but his as our mayster Criste bereth wytnes my shepe heare my voyce and another maÌ„nys voyce do they not knowe also in a nother place he that is of god hereth the wordes of god how commeth thys that the chyrche of god hath so sure a iudgement that she knoweth the voyce of Cryste from other voyces and can not erre in her iudgement Bycause that Cryste hath chosen her and bycause she is serâ—â—ed of god as â—ur mayster Cryste sayth and by câ—use she hath as saynt IohnÌ„ sayth the inwarde oyntement of god that teacheth his all maner of veryte so that she caÌ„ not erre But why can she not erre because she may do what she will Bycause that all thyng that she doth is well done bycause she may maâ—e nâ—we ruâ—es and new lawes at her pleasure Bycause she may inâ—ent a newe seruyce oâ— god that is not in scrypture at her wyll Nay nay my lordes For she is but a woman and muste be ruled by her husbande ye she is but a shâ—pe and mâ—sâ—e heare the voyce of her shepeâ—erd And so longe as she doth so longe can she not erre bycause the voyce of her shepeherd can not be false This may be proued by your owne lawe â—hâ—se wordes be these the whole chyrcâ—e can not erre Also in a nother place the câ—ngregacyon of faythfull men muste nedes be whyche also can not erre c. These wordes be playne what chyrche yt is that can not erre that is the congregacyon of faythfull men that be gadered in Cristes name which haue Cristis spryt whyche haue the holy oyntement of god whyâ—he abyde â—este by Crystes worde and heare noâ—e other mannyâ— voyce but hys More Here haue I good reders rehersed you the full declaracyon of his purpose to gether whych as yt were well done that no man sholde vouchsaufe to rede ouer ones so were yt good that who so wolde nedes rede yt ones sholde indyfferently wythout parcyalyte rede yt and aduyse yt often For in good fayth I doute yt not but he that so wolde had he no lernynge at all and were wytted but
nothynge for hym but also pâ—oue clere agaynste hym And all his places of the doctours of the chyrch that he bringeth in for the proue of that purpose I haue purposely differred bycause I wold answere theÌ„ to gether laste at all For syth he taketh in y e poynt another way then Tyndale doth or Fryth or lightly any other heretike of theÌ„ all in layenge forth for his part holy doctours of y e chyrch to make it seme that the olde holy sayntes say for hys parte I haue thought yt therfore good to examyne them orderly eche after other wherby ye shall shortely perceyue that the wordis of those holy doctours do no more proue his purpose then do the textes that he brought of the scryptures whyche as I haue proued you clerely proue agaynst hym His fyrste authoryte be these wordes of sayntt Austayn in his fyftieth sermone made vpon the wordes of our lord sayenge Of Cryste is y â— chyrch made fayre Fyrste was she fylthy in synnes afterward by pardon grace made fayre Uppon these wordes saynt Austayne none other meaneth but that all the beauty of any that is in the chyrche and in any man of the chyrche coÌ„meth of god and that euery man that is of the chyrche was borne in synne and that all they whyche fro the Iewes or Gentyles turned to god and cam to the chyrche hadde byfore lyued in synne and were therfore fylthy tyll by the sacrament of baptysme at theyr entre into the chyrche they were purged clensed fro theyr synne by the grace and pardon of god and the sacrament of baptysme and after when they be defoyled agayne by synne they be agayne clensed purged and made fayre by grace and perdon of god and the sacrament of penauÌ„ce and other holy sacramentes takynge theyr effecte strength and vertue of Crystes passyon But he fyndeth not in all that sermon any worde wherin saynt Austayne sayth that who so euer is onys clensed and made fayre ys neuer after foule nor that as sone as he is by any dedely synne foule he is by and by no parte of holy chyrche For holy chyrche is not called holy because euery peyce therof is holy otherwyse then the holynesse but bycause of that holynesse that is in yt besyde of theyr professyon nor is not called fayre bycause euery parte is fayre but bycause of such fayrenes as is in it besyde as there may be some weke parte in a strong bodye and some sore part â—n a hole body ye some dede parte in a quicke body some foule part in a fayre body some whit parte in a blakke body in a good coÌ„pany some naughtye folke And in such maner spake our sauyoure to his apostles where he sayd you be clene not y t they were al clene for he forth wyth added vnto yt but ye be not all clene meanynge by Iudas the traytoure that was one of them and though he was a traytour in his herte was yet a foule vnholy member of that fayre holy chyrche Lyke as yf a good kynge had in his chekker roule attendyng dayly vppon hym in his housholde dyuerse many false traytours that went about secretly to betraye hym all the whyle they be suffered there tyll they be taken for ther treason and put out they be styll of the courte and of the kynges houshold And the houshold all be yt that some wyll say there was a shrewed housholde bycause yt had suche shrewes in yt yet was yt for all that a good housholde bycause yt had good besyde Aud lykewyse as in the whole world the varyete of good partes bad geueth a beauty to y e whole so in the chyrche of Cryste hym selfe seeth how the foule partes do sette oute the fayre rather bewtyfye then blemmyshe the goodlynes of the whole And though the chyrche be of some foulke called fowle for those persons that are by dedely synne fowle therin as the euangelyste sayde that the dyscyples murmured at the losse of the oyntement wherat none of them murmured but one so is she fayre for all that in dede by the fayrenesse that is in her bothe by reason of Chryst her gloryouse hed and of many other fayre membres that are euer in her and by reason of the goodly composycyon and cuÌ„ly temperature of the whole body For whyche cause the chyrche maye well saye of it selfe the wordes that she speketh in the cantycles I am blackeâ— but yet am I bewtyfull ye and though there be mo fowle thaÌ„ fayre therin by reason wherof after the comon vse it myghte be called fowle and not fayre as a man of Inde is called blacke for all hys whyte tethe yet is it otherwyse here for the tother special causes The tone for that be it neuer so vnholy in lyuynge it is called holy for that it hath holy professyon wherby it is dedycated vnto Chryst. The secundeâ— that there is in thys world none holy that goth to any other chyrche out of it or that wyll not be of it The thyrde cause is for that the holynesse that is in it be there neuer so few holy therin is farre fayrer and holyer and more plesaunt in the syght of god than the fowlenesse and vnholynesse of all that are fowle vnholy therin specyally for the bewtye and holynesse of the very cheyfe pryncypall hed therof our sauyour Cryst hym self And therfore as I saye these wordes of saynt Austayne menyng none other wyse by them thaÌ„ saynt Austayn ment in them make no thynge in thys worlde for frere Barons chyrch that is as he sayth so fayre that it hath neyther spot therin nor wryncle for that sayth not saynt Austayne And therfore thys place of saynte Austayne no thynge helpeth hym but by other places of saynt Austayne whych I shall brynge you forth after ye shall se the mynde of saynte Austayne so playnely declared in thys poynt agaynste frere Barns y t frere Barns shall be as wery of saynte Austayns wordes as euer he was wery of saynte Austayns wurkes for werynes wherof he ronne out of saynte Austayns rule But fyrste shall I peruse those other places of saynt Austayne whych frere Barns bryngeth in hym selfe The next place of saynt Austayne that he bryngeth in is thys Barons The holy chyrche are we but I do not saye we as one sholde saye we that â—e here alonely that heare me now but as many as be here faythfull chrystened men in thys chyrche that is to saye in this citye as many as be in thys regyon as many as be beyonde the see as many as be in all the whole worlde for frâ—m the â—ysynge of the sonne tyll the goynge downe is the name of god prayseâ— so is the holy chyrche our mother More Now good readers thys texte of saynt Austayne hath frere Barns alledged to be in his sermone .99 that he made de tâ—mpore in whyche sermon I fynde it not And leste there
agaynste hym For that law sayth no thynge ellys but that the very trew fayth wythout errour hath bene euer preserued in the see apostolyke and as the lawe calleth it there the mother of all chyrches the chyrche of Rome And therfore thys lawe ye se wel was not for hys purpose to brynge in but in stede of the law he layeth vs forth a pache of the glose Now the tother law de pene dis 2. Si that law durst he not brynge forth for fere of angeryng hys euangelycall brother Tyndale For that lawe is the wordes of holy saynte Hierom wherin he confuteth at great length those heretykes that than helde the selfe same heresyes that Tyndale holdeth now that they which be onys borne of god can neuer after synne And the tother that he which after his baptysme doth onys any dedely synne shall neuer gete forgyuenes after These two deuelysshe heresyes which Tyndale hath now begon agayn in hys false exposycyon of the fyrst pystle of saynt IohnÌ„ which false exposycyon of hys I haue before coÌ„futed in my fourth boke holy saynt Hierom doth at good length openly confute in the wordes whiche are there by Graciane incorporate in the decrees whiche wordes yf my selfe hadde remembred in tyme I wolde haue broughte theym in in the stede of myne owne and wolde peraduenture haue lefte myne owne out for theym For there sayeth saynte Hierome the selfe same thynges agaynst those other heretykes of old y t I say there agaynst thys new and as he better coulde sayth them farre better thaÌ„ euer I shal be able as I wold make you sone perceyue yf I coulde in translatynge hys wordes into our englyshe tong gyue it the quyknesse and strength that he gyueth it in the laten But as I sayd thys lawe durste not frere Barns bryng in for fere of Tyndale whyche wolde for hurtynge of hys heresyes haue founden hym braulynge inough for all hys lyfe after But Barns wyll I warraunt you gyue hym no suche occasyon of dyspleasure Now yf Barons answere me that he hadde no cause to bryng in any of both those lawes syth they made no thyng for hys purpose but the gloses onely I shall tell hym agayne that than he sholde not haue sayed it that he wolde proue hys purpose by the lawes but by the gloses onely And I say also that than he shold haue lefte out the gloses to For as the lawes proue not hys purpose no more do the gloses neyther as I haue clerely declared you And yet whan he hath handeled hym self so falsely and yet so folyshly therwyth in the alledgynge of these lawes that yf he hadde any sparke of shame lefte in hys body he myghte not well loke any man in the face for fere that these hys false folyes were espyed it is now a worlde to se wyth what a corage and boldenesse he bosteth and reioyceth and what a ioye he maketh as he were euyn made a kynge by the fyndynge of a bene in a chrystmas cake For now he calleth hys lordes about hym and sayth Now my lordes gather you all to gyther wyth all the lawes that ye can make and all the holynesse that you can deuyse and crye the chyrche the chyrche and the counseâ—s the counsels that were lawfully gathered in the power of the holy goste all thys may you saye and yet lye And yf you haue not in dede the holy goste within you and yf you do heare any other voyce than Chrystes than are you not of the chyrche but of the deuyll and theuys and murtherers as Chryste sayth For you come afore hym that is you come into the foulde of Chryst wythout hym you brynge not his voyce but you come with your owne voyce with youre owne statutes wyth your owne worde and with your owne â—andamus mandamus praecipimus praecipimus excommunicamus excoÌ„municamus These be the voyces of murtherers and theuys and not of Chryste Therfore you can not but erre For you be not taught of god you haue not the holy oyntemente you haue not the worde of god for you you here not the voyce of the trewe sheaperd Therfore must you nedes erre in all your counselles what grounde or colour of grounde hath he to reigne so lordely and rayle so ryally vppon all the lawes May he so boldely sette them all at nought bycause hym selfe hath so falsely bylyed twayne and so folyshely handeled theyr gloses No Sowdan in a stage play may make mo braggyng bostys nor ronne out in mo frantike ragys than may frere fraÌ„tyke Barns yf he take thys for reason For here speking of lawes and layeng but the gloses and the lawes agaynst hym and hys gloses nothynge for hym yet as though all the worlde were hys he falleth forth in a rage agaynste all lawys and all generall counsayles and sayth They haue not the voyce of god with them but they muste nedes erre in all theyr counsayles by cause they say mandamus mandamus praecipimus praecipimus excommunicamus excommunicamus For he sayth that these wordes be the voyces of murtherers and theuys and not of Cryste Thys felow cometh forth wyth a prowde face vpon all the worlde whan he wolde by his pryncely authoryte more than an imperyall maiestye proclayme all men for murderers and theuys that dare be so bolde as to vse any of these wordes mandamus precipimus or excoÌ„municamus These wordes I se not sent out by murtherers nor theuys but by prynces and rulers agaynst murderers and theuys and agaynst all other vycyouse and mysse ruled persons and amonge other agaynste vngraciouse heretykes which is all thys mannys gryefe And that these wordes of coÌ„maundynge haue bene vsed by folke somwhat better then theuys and murderers may appere by the scrypture it selfe For the holy euâ—ngelyste saynt Marke sayeth of our sauyour thus He commaunded hys apostles that they sholl cary no thynge wyth them as they went by the waye And saynt Poule wryteth vnto the Thessalonyes in thys wyse O my bretherne I truste in god of yow that ye kepe and wyll kepe all thynges that I haue commaunded you And agayne to Timothe thus he sayth I commaunde the before god c. And thus frere Barns maye se that the wordes of commaundynge be not alwaye the voyce of murderers and theuys But all the greate gryefe of thys mater is in excommunicamus For that worde wolde frere Barns haue daÌ„pned But yet muste he consyder that saynt Poule hym selfe vsed eyther that same worde or some other in the language that he spake when he dyd excommunycate and accurse Hymineus and AlexaÌ„der and bytoke them to the deuyll to teche them to leue theyr blasphemy suche as these heretyques vse now and yet peraduenture lesse for greater yt coulde not be Saynte Poule also commaunded the Corynthies that they shold excoÌ„municate and accurse oute of theyr coÌ„pany that incestuouse lecherour that had abused his own faders wyfe For thus he sayth in the fyrst pystle to the Corynthies Trewly I
alwaye prouynge agaynste hys purpose I wyll now for frere Barns ferther wurshyp confute hym by the selfe same place of saynt Austayne whyche hym selfe bryngeth here forth for hys specyall profe of hys vnknowē holy chyrch to proue it a company of vnknowen faythfull folke beynge holy by theyr onely fayth wherof these ar◠frere Barns wordes Barns Thys is well preued by your owne law De con di 4. c. prima igitur whose wordes be these Therfore is the chyrche holy bycause she byleueth ryghtuousely in god And thē frere Barns goth forth with his own glose vpon these wordes and sayth Heare you not the cause wherfore the chyrche is holy bycause she byleueth ryghtuousely in god that is she byleueth nothynge but in hym and she byleueth nor heareth no worde but hys as our mayster Cryste bereth wytnesse My shepe heare my voyce and a nother mannys voyce do they not knowe More Barons here holdeth on his olde crafte in furnyshyng his owne gloses wyth falsefyenge the scrypture of god For ye shall vnderstande good crysten reders that saynt Iohn̄ the euangelyste oute of whose gospell Barons hath taken the wordes of our sauyoure Cryste reherseth theym not in suche wyse as Barns doth that is to wyt that the shepe of Cryste do not know the voyce of any other man But he sayth that y e shepe of Cryst do not folow any straunger but do fle from hym bycause they know not the voyce of straūgers And now cometh Barons and telleth vs that Cryst sayde that his shepe do not knowe the voyce of any other man as though the chyrch sholde refuse all other wordes then onely those that Criste spake in his owne person But Cryste sayde not they sholde here none other but that they sholde not heare straungers For by other men whome he sendeth his flocke hereth his own wordes And therfore he sayth hym selfe to his trewe catholyque preachers he that heareth you heareth me But by straungers that is to wyt by heretyques whyche be straungers from the housholde of Crystes catholyque chyrche and whyche do straungely reherse and straungly declare Crystes catholyke scripture agaynste the knowen catholyke doctryne of Crystes knowen catholyque chyrche by the voyce of such straūgers that is to wyt by the voyce of suche heretyques Chrystes shepe can not heare they re owne shepeherde Cryste And therfore they fle from euery suche straunger accordynge as saynte Poule whose voyce Cristes shepe do heare bycause he was a nother and not a straūger sayth vn Crystes flocke That man that is a heretyque after the fyrste or the seconde warnynge estewe and fle from And thus ye se good readers how fere Barns here false fyeth and wronge interpreteth the wordes of Cryste in the gospell of saynte Iohn̄ But now let vs retourne to consyder the wordes of that lawe that Barons hath here rehersed you from whyche I haue ben as ye se a lytle letted by this other false poynte of his in false rehersynge the scrypture But now concernynge that law good reders you shall vnderstande that the wordes of that law be taken out of a sermone of saynte Austayne whyche he made vnto certayn persons forthwyth vppon theyr baptysme In whyche sermone amonge many other thynges that he preached vnto them both in the same and other two sermons that he had made them byfore he sayth vnto them thus where as we haue asked eche of you Byleuest thou in holy chyrche remyssyon of synnes and resurreccyon of the flesh we asked you not after that maner that you sholde euen in the same maner as you byleue in god byleue in the catholyque holy chyrche whyche chyrche is therfore holy and catholyque bycause yt byleueth ryght in god And therfore we sayde it not to th entent that ye sholde byleue in the chyrche as ye sholde byleue in god but vnderstand you that we byd you and dyd bydde you that beynge conuersaunt in the holy catholyque chyrche you sholde byleue in god and that you sholde byleue also the resurreccyon of the fleshe that ys to come Lo good crysten reders here haue you herde that in the selfe place where as saynt Austayne sayth that the chyrche is holy and catholyque bycause yt byleueth ryghte in god bycause none of all the sectes of heretyques can be holy nor catholyque that is to saye vnyuersall syth very holynesse can none be out of the ryght chyrch nor god shall suffer no secte of heresye to sprede ouer all the worlde so as he sprede the vnyuersall chyrche in the selfe same place I say saynte Austayne declareth that by these wordes I byleue in the holy catholyque chyrche is not ment that we shall byleue therin as we byleue in god but that that we must byleuing one holy catholyque chyrche abyde and be conuersaunt in the same one holy catholyque chyrche and byleuynge in god contynue in that one holy catholyque chyrche and not go out therof into any of so many folde dyuerse sectes of he retyques By whyche ye may playnely perceyue that saynt Austayn ther declareth the holy catholyque chyrche of the ryght bylyefe to be y ◠comen one vnyuersall knowen chyrch dystyncte and dyuyded from all the knowen chyrches of heretyques For yf yt were vnknowē how shold he byd them by that exposycion of that artycle abyde and be conuersaūt in yt or how could he as he sayth a litle also byfore in same sermon as is also rehersed in the same law say that the ceremonyes vsed in the baptisme were instituted by the same catholyque chyrche For yf yt were vnknowen how could yt any thyng instytute or ordayne And fynally to put out of all doute question that saynt Austayn obhorreth from frere Barns heresy that argueth vppon that artycle of the crede that the chyrche sholde be an vnknowen chyrche saynte Austayne sayeth playnely as I shewed you byfore agaynst Tyndale that lykewise as he were accursed that wolde saye that Cryste was not a man knowen so accursed be he that sayeth the chyrche of Cryste is not a chyrche knowen Lo thus are we now good cristen reders comen vnto an ende of frere Barons chyrche in whych ye playnely se that he can neyther agre wyth Tyndales vnknowen chyrche of repentaunte synners nor impugne the comen knowen catholyke chyrch of Cryste nor proue his own secrete chyrch of onely sayntes vnknowen Nor he hath not alledged as ye se well also neyther any one texte of holy scrypture nor any sentence of holy doctour but falsefyenge them and framynge them a freshe after his owne fashyon yet haue they not onely nothynge proued for hym but in conclusyon clerely proued agaynst hym And therfore wyll I to ende where Barns endeth hym selfe let you somwhat se how he handeleth saynt Bernard and there wythall fynyshe this boke Barns But let vs se what saynte Bernarde sayth on you They call theym selfe the mynysters of Cryste but they serue Antechryste they go gorgyousely a rayed of our
lordes goodes vnto whome they geue none honoure And of those goodes cometh the harlottes deckyng that thou seest dayly the game players dysgysynge and kynges apperrell Of this cometh golde in theyr brydelles in their sadelles and in theyr spurres so that theyr spurres be brighter theÌ„ the aulters Of this commeth theyr plentuous wyne presses and then full sellers blolkynge from this vnto that Of this coÌ„meth theyr tonnes of swete wynes Of this be theyr bâ—ggys so fylled for suche thynges as these be wyll they be rulers of the chyrch as dekens archdekens byshoppes and archbishoppes c My lordes I hadde thoughte to baue added cardynalles and legates abbottes and pryours to haue made the company more holy But I durst not How thynke you Of whom doth he speke when he sayth byshoppes and archbyshoppes What holynes doth he reproue when he speketh of gorgyouse aray 〈…〉 More Now good reders here is an ende of frere Barons proâ—â—â—â— concernynge the chyrcheâ— whyche processe he hath â—nâ—â—â— wâ—th saynt Bernaâ—de By whose wordes Barns wold â—t sâ—olde sâ—â—e that saâ—nt Bernaâ—de wâ—re of his opynyon thâ—t is to wyt that suche as aâ—e euyll aâ—e not of the chyrch â—nd thâ—n were the chyrche and vnknowen chyrch of onely good â—olke alone how be yt not yet precysely his chyrche for his chyrche is yâ— wote well a chyrche of folke not meanely good but of folke so good so pure and so clene that ther be not among them all so myche as eyther spot or wryncle â—ow be yt though saynt Bernarde shold not proue Baâ—ons chyrche yet wolde frere Barons â—hat saynt Bernard sâ—old sâ—me to proue the chyrch to be at the lest an vnknoweÌ„ chyrch of onely good folke and so to proue that the knoweÌ„ catholyque chyrche were not the chyrch For as for â—arns oâ— trouthe and all his felowes toâ— so they myghte dysproue and destroy this chyrche that is they care not greatly for the â—akynge of a nother yet wolde frere Barons fartherâ— that saynte Bernarde sholde seme to dyspyse and set at nought all holy ornamenâ—â—s â—nd call them harlottes deckyng and then by the same â—eanes dyspyse all other holy ceremonâ—es of the chyrche â—ut â— shall shew you good redersâ—â—yrst that saynt Berâ—â—â—â—â— proueth nothynge for frere Barns noâ— agaynste the â—â—owen catholâ—â—uâ— chyrche though his woâ—des â—ere but 〈…〉 â—arns reherseth them 〈…〉 sâ—all I shew you that 〈◊〉 Baâ—ns playth with saynt Bernard hereâ— as ye haue sene hym before play wyth saynt Austaynâ— wyth saynt Pouleâ— with saynt IohnÌ„ the euangelyst that is to wytte reherse hym false and chaunâ—e some wordes kepe some wordes away to make his mateâ— sâ—me swete Fynally shall I shew you y e saynt Bernarde not in thys heresy onely coÌ„cernynge the questâ—on whych is the chyrche but also in all frere Barns other heresyes was his very specyall enemy and then wyll I make â—n ende For the fyrste poynt yf saynt Bernarde saâ—d here all as frere Barns reherseth hym yet what had he â—ayde for frere Barns concernynge the chyrchâ— do all those woâ—des amoâ—â—t to any moreâ— then that there are in euery kynd of 〈◊〉 of the chyrch some that are nought And who denâ—eth thaâ— And then sayth also that all suche as so be do serue Anâ—iâ—chryste and not Chryste And who sayth nay who sâ—â—th tâ—â— euyll folke sâ—rue god well dothe not euery man agreâ— thâ—â— euyll chrysten peple do by theyr dedely synnes serâ—â— thâ— deuyll If frere Barons wyll any thynge proue vs by 〈◊〉 Bernarde he muste shewe where saynte Bernaâ—de â—â—â—th that suche as are euyll are not of the chyrche He sheweth vs no suche worde And â—â—t myghte 〈◊〉 Bernardeâ— and many an other holy man â—aye such a wordâ— and yet meane no suche thynge thâ—rby For he that 〈◊〉 saye in a sermonâ— that a monke that bâ—eketh â—ys 〈◊〉 or any of hys other vowes is neyther monkâ— nor 〈…〉 manâ— but mych wurse than a Iew meanâ—th 〈…〉 he is no lenger a monke in dede nor a member 〈…〉 monastery Nor he that wolde saye that a woâ—â—n tâ—at â—â—â—keth her obedyâ—ce to her husband were not a wyf◠〈◊〉 not that her husband were therfore dyscharged of her aâ—â— may take an other wyfe Nor he that sayth a dronkâ—n 〈◊〉 is no woman but a sowe meaneth not therby perd◠〈…〉 her chyldren shal be pyggys The prophete speketh in the person of our 〈…〉 selfe I am a wurme and not a man yet ment 〈…〉 to deny that he was a very maÌ„ in dede but 〈…〉 in so vyle maner haÌ„deled at his passyon as thouâ—◠〈…〉 no man but a very vile wurme A man 〈…〉 whom he giueth meate drynke w 〈…〉 stelth do to some other more seruycâ— th 〈…〉 ster ye and secretely somtyme agayns 〈…〉 And therfore ouâ— sauyâ—ur sayd not 〈…〉 maysters but he â—ayd no man can 〈…〉 yf he haue twayne whyle he serueth the tone he shall leue the tother vnserued And therfore though saynt Bernarde saye that they serue Antechryste and that they serue the deuyll yf he had sayed also and therfore they be no seruauÌ„tes of Cryste nor be no chrysten menne but Chrystes enemyes very antechrystes yet had he not ment in all thys y t they were for all thys oute of the chyrche and none of it whyle they were such and than of it agayn whan they were ameÌ„ded and out of it agayn as soone as they synned agayne thus playe in and out lyke in docke out netle that no man sholde wyt whan they were in and whan they were out nor knowe whych were the chyrche Thus haue I shewed you good reders that all though saynt Bernard had sayd in dede as Barns falsely reherseth him ye somwhat more to yet had it not ê“ued for Barns Now for the secunde poynt ye shall vnderstand that Barons hath vntruely translated you saynt Bernardes wordes For lettynge passe some peces that he hath lefte out in the myddes for no cause that I caÌ„ se but yf it were for lacke of lernynge and lettynge passe some suche also as he hath mysse translated of ignoraunce I wyll shewe you but one place or twayne whyche he hath wyth one word or twayne so chaunged of malyce that he hath turned the sentence for hys purpose clene agaynste the mynde of saynte Bernarde that wrote it For euyn in the very fyrst begynnynge where saynt Bernarde sayth thus Ministri Christi sunt seruiunt Antichristo that is They be the mynystres of Cryste they serue Antichryst Barns hath translated it thus They call them selfe the mynistres of Cryst but they serue Antichrist So that where saynte Bernard sayth that though they serue Antichryste yet they be the mynystres of Cryst in hys chyrche here frere Barns turneth that an other way maketh as though saynt Bernarde sayd not that they be so but sayd onely that they call them selfe so And in lyke wyse after in the ende where as saint Bernard sayth pro huiusmodi voluÌ„t esse