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A83515 The third part of Gangræna. Or, A new and higher discovery of the errors, heresies, blasphemies, and insolent proceedings of the sectaries of these times; with some animadversions by way of confutation upon many of the errors and heresies named. ... Briefe animadversions on many of the sectaries late pamphlets, as Lilburnes and Overtons books against the House of Peeres, M. Peters his last report of the English warres, The Lord Mayors farewell from his office of maioralty, M. Goodwins thirty eight queres upon the ordinance against heresies and blasphemies, M. Burtons Conformities deformity, M. Dells sermon before the House of Commons; ... As also some few hints and briefe observations on divers pamphlets written lately against me and some of my books, ... / By Thomas Edvvards Minister of the Gospel.; Gangraena. Part 3 Edwards, Thomas, 1599-1647. 1646 (1646) Wing E237; Thomason E368_5; ESTC R201273 294,455 360

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more no more night nor day summer nor winter 2 Pet. 3. 7 10 11 12. The heavens and the earth which are now are reserved unto fire against the day of judgement the heavens shall passe away the elements shall melt with fervent heat the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up all these things shall be dissolved and whatever hath a being after the day of judgement is eternall and for ever so Revel 10. 6. there should be time no longer which some interpret there shall be no time because time shall be finished and this variety of dayes and nights moneths and years and an unchangeable eternity shall follow in the dayes of the seventh Angel but whether that be the meaning or no of the place this is certain that after the end of this world and the generall Judgement there will be an abolition of time and an eternity follow and therefore eternall fire and eternall chains both for devills and ungodly men cannot be meant of a long time but simply of eternall à parte post Thirdly there 's the same reason in every respect why eternall for judgement fire destruction should be taken in the same sense that eternall is when joyned to life kingdome c. but there 't is taken not for a long-lasting time but properly for everlasting and therefore must of necessity be so here and whatever colour glosse or evasion can be brought to evade that of hell torments damnation that they should not be eternall the same will lie as strong against the eternall life and kingdome given to the Saints but they overthrow the whole doctrine of faith break that golden chain of salvation in the eighth of the Romanes in all the links of it Election Vocation Justification Glorification nay further these Errors as they are laid down doe not onely crosse expresse Scriptures and Articles of our Faith but they deny salvation to all men who beleeve not those wicked doctrines making them the great Antichrist formall beleevers and putting the cause of all damnation to devills and men viz. for so long as they are damned upon the not-beleeving and receiving these wicked doctrines That all devills and men shall be saved and that Christ paid the price laying down his bloud for the pardon of all reprobated Men and Angels and that the beleeving of these doctrines is the only true Christian working faith commended so much by the Holy Ghost and of such an efficacy that this faith being but in two or three in the whole world shall yet save all the rest of the Creation then which Doctrines and Positions nothing can be more repugnant to the Christian faith and may properly be call'd doctrines of devills 33. The Trinity of Persons came downe in Christ to suffer Father Sonne and Holy Ghost suffered for their transgressing creature 34. There is a private Kingdom of Christs justice in which he sat Judge over the quick and dead to condemne and execute torments on the rebellious whom he held as prisoners for a time and there is Christs publick Kingdome to which the Private Kingdome must give place and as the Father hath given it to Christ to rule it for ever so Christ hath committed it to the Holy Ghost to enliven all things to bring up all to life and immortality and the Holy Ghost for the Father and the Son shall execute the judgement of love and mercies unto all for the destroying of death of hell 35. That t is unlawfull to pray unto God kneeling 36. That Organs are a sanctified adjunct in the service of God now under the Gospel and that if any man in the Church had a gift of making Hymner he might bring them in to be sung with Organs or other Instruments of musick In severall ages of the Church wanton men who could not be content with the simplicity of the Gospel have brought both into doctrines of Faith and Worship such opinions and practises still as have been most suitable to their genius and education to the principles of such Arts and Sciences in which they were versed as Origen and some others versed in Plato's Philosophy brought in opinions into the Church according to Plato's doctrine Some who have been much addicted to Painting and Imagery they have brought in Images into the Church and now some of our Independents having fancies in Musick singing taking great delight in that way they have pleaded for and brought into the Church Hymnes and Musick 37. That Adultery is no Sin and that Drunkenesse is none neither but a help to see Christ the better by it 38. Though consent of Parents unto Childrens marriage was commanded under the Law to them that lived then yet because that was but a ceremony t is now lawfull to marry without their consent because we live under the Gospel 39. Christs death and sufferings were endured for to be our example not to purchase heaven for us 40. That 't is not lawfull for Christians to take an oath no not when they are called before Authority and brought into Courts 41. That Christ would destroy not only unlawfull Government but lawfull Government not only the abuse of it but the use of it he was destroying both Monarchy and Aristocracy 42. That the Saints besides the spirituall Kingdome and Government of the Church of Christ must have an externall Kingdom to possesse that this is the time that the Kingdome viz. England Scotland and Ireland is to be taken from him who shall arise and subdue three Kingdoms thinking to change times and Lawes and shall be given to the Saints 43. Gracious Lords or Favourable Lords are titles that cannot be proper amongst Christians but are marks of Gentiles 44. 'T is an utter disfranchisement of the people and a meer vassalage for a man to Petition to Courts of Judicature as the House of Peers for his right and to have justice done him 't is no better then a branch of tyranny to force a man to turn Supplicant for his own and of self-robbery to submit thereto 'T is an inslaved and intolerable condition of this Nation that indeed they cannot have their own naturall Rights and Immunities but they must be actuall Petitioners as if their own were not their own of right but of favour 45. That for Crimes and Offences committed in a Common-wealth there should not be certain penalties appointed by Lawes to which the Governours and Magistrates should be tyed but it should be lest to the discretion and wisdome of the Magistrates to inflict what they thought fit in case of such and such Crimes and this liberty should be left that a Magistrate might exercise his gifts of Government which if he were kept strictly to the Law how should his wisdom and gifts be manifested 46. That Protestant States and Parliaments have no power nor liberty to confirm and enact by Law Worship and Church-Government
reports of victories other mens valiant acts attributed to them and they upon all occasions pleaded for excused and fair glosses put upon the ●oulest actions of any Commanders and Souldiers of that party so that a man would wonder Master Peters should write thus but that he will say any thing if it be for the Sectaries and they who know the man and his manner what stories he hath told in Pulpits of ba●●ells that he hath been in and how many victories have been atchieved will never marvell at what he writes here Seventhly For that Master Peters speaks of Master Forbes and Am 〈…〉 s of that constant sweetnesse and incouragement in the one towards him and of the speeches of the other to him even to his death I much doubt of the truth of them and that upon these grounds However Master Forbes might be great with him before ●e declared himself for Independency and the Church-way yet I have been told from a godly understanding Minister who lived many years in Holland and that in the time of Master Peters being there both before he was looked upon as an Independent and 〈…〉 wards viz. all the time till he went to New England that when Master Forbes by the power of the Bishops faction was put by his place of Minister to the Merchant Adventures at Roterdam he would have received the Lords Supper at Master Peters Church Master Peters Independency or Church-way not being visible then but Master Peters offering to put upon him or requiring some of his Church-way devices spake something to Master Forbes of things in that kind which Master Forbes nece●ted with so much indignation and scorn knowing what love and ●espect he had shown to Master Peters and what experience Master Peters had had of him and that now besides all his sufferings in Scotland he was put by all in Holland for refusing the Ceremonies and the Bishops wayes that now being deprived both of Ministry and Sacraments and coming to Master Peters as his great friend he should offer to question him of his state of grace or propound his Independent 〈…〉 icks to him before he could be admitted that he spake very sharply to him telling him in these words or to this effect He would not come to the Lords Supper with him if he would have ●im nor have communion with a man in such a way And I beleeve there was little love or sweetnesse passed between them afterwards or little incouragement that Master Peters ever after had from that learned and godly Scotch-man And as for the story he tells of learned Amesius for no other end as I know but to gain credit to himself and the Church-way I much question that he should speak so of the Independent way and give such a charge about it as Master Peters relates as also that he left his Professorship in Frizland to live with Master Peters mee●ly upon that reason because of his Churches Independency and my grounds of doubt are these First Because in Doctor Amesius his Works I find Principles against the Independency of Churches as in his Book of Cases of Conscience the fourth Book cap. 29. in answer to that question Who have the power of Excommunicating Among others who have power he saith Synods and Classes when any difficulty ariseth have a power to declare and decree who they be that ought to be excommunicated 〈◊〉 in his Medull● Theologie 〈…〉 the first Book Chap. 39. having spoken of a particular Church he comes in with this Cantion or Proviso Notwithstanding particular Churches as their communion requires the light of nature the equity of rules and examples of Scripture teach may and also often ought to enter into a mutuall confederation and association among themselves in Classes and Synods that they may use the common consent and help as much as conveniently can be especially in all those things which are of greater moment I 〈◊〉 also in Amesius his Works many passages against other Principles of the Independent way at the use of Suspension from the Lords Supper to goe before Excommunication which is denyed by the Independents with many others Now the writings of men are more to be regarded and beleeved then the words of such a man as Master Peters especially in favour of his own cause Secondly For Doctor Ames leaving his Professorship in Frizland to live with Master Peters at Roterdam I will not deny that but I doe deny that it was because of his Churches Independency it was upon other reasons and of this I can give the Reader some good account and I must acknowledge it as a providence of God that I many years agoe by reason of my intimate acquaintance with the eminentest and godliest men of those times and with the prime of those who are now turned Independents did hear and know many things of all sorts of godly men both at home and abroad in Holland England New-England which I then little thought I should ever have had any use of but since have been and are of great use in answering Independents when they come and tell the world stories of themselves which men know not how to disprove them Doctor Ames as I have been told from grave godly Ministers for many years before he died was weary of his place in Frizland and would fain have had some place in England he moved and propounded it to some that if he could but have any living or place to preach in though in a remote Village without using the Ceremonies and being put upon subscription he would take it for he had a mind to give himself to preaching and to enjoy the society of English Christians and Ministers and was weary because of that dulnesse and different way in regard of the practicall power of godlinesse he found among those he lived with there and the godly English whom he in the former part of his life had been acquainted with and therefore divers years before there was any thought or speech of Independent Churches or this way he moved for a place in England and would faine have left his Professorship in Frizeland And I am ready to depose I have been told this by one or more godly Ministers of great note 'T is sufficiently known I was well acquainted with Doctor Preston Doctor Sibs Master Bouls Doctor Prestons Tutor Doctor Taylor Doctor Staughton c. and from some of these I had it and I remember I have been in company with Doctor Ames at Doctor Prestons lodging who after the death of King James coming to England and to Cambridge I heard him preach there and well remember the Sermon and Text Jude vers 20 21. but times in England growing worse and worse there being no hope for such a man as he here being weary of his Professorship in Frizland was willing to be Minister of an English Church in Holland since he could not obtain it in England and I make no question if Doctor Ames could have been assured