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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A15082	A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*	White, Francis, 1564?-1638.; Laud, William, 1573-1645.; Baylie, Richard, b. 1585 or 6, attributed name.; Cockson, Thomas, engraver.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641.	1624 (1624)	STC 25382; ESTC S122241	841,497	706

Granting that some vulgar people and nouices in Faith may attaine beleefe concerning such verities of Christian Doctrine as are absolutely necessarie to Saluation by the Tradition of their Ancestors and Teachers without distinct and explicit resoluing their Faith into the Text of holy Scripture or the particular Bookes or Sections thereof But withall I deny that they can haue sauing Faith without resoluing the same into the doctrine of the Scriptures For example It is an Article of Faith necessarie to be beleeued by all Christians of riper yeres that Iesus Christ is the 〈◊〉 of the World and the same Article is reuealed and taught in many Texts of holy Scripture If a simple rurall person beleeue this Article taught him by his parents and other teachers he beleeueth the Doctrine of the Scripture and vertually grounds his Faith vpon the Scripture although hee know not the Bookes of the Scripture or the particular sentences contained in the same A man which drinketh water flowing from a fountaine or seeth day light although he haue no distinct knowledge of the fountaine or sight of the Sunne which is the cause of light yet hee receiueth water mediatly from the fountaine it selfe and his light principally from the Sunne so likewise rude and illiterate Christians reape the benefit and fruit of the Scriptures and vertually ground their Faith vpon them although they be not able distinctly to looke into them or to resolue their Faith into the seuerall parts and testimonies contained in them OBIECTION Vulgar andilliterate persons do not know or vnderstand the Scriptures neither can they be certaine by their owne knowledge that the same are truely translated in such points as the y are bound to beleeue therefore they cannot ground their Faith finally and lastly vpon the Scriptures ANSVVER 1. If this Obiection were good vulgar people could not ground their diuine Faith vpon Tradition because they haue not distinct knowledge of Tradition or of the qualitie or deriuation thereof Therefore I distinguish of Knowledge out of Bonauenture that the same is two fold to wit either confused and generall or distinct and speciall and a thing may be knowne two waies either in it selfe or in another If vulgar and illiterate people could know and vnderstand the Scriptures neither confusedly nor distinctly neither in themselues nor in any other thing then it were impossible that they should resolue their Faith into them but if they may know them by teaching of others and vnderstand the Doctrine of the Scriptures to be diuine by the light of heauenly veritie resplendent in the same and by the inward testimonie of the holy Spirit co-working with that Doctrine then it is possible for them to resolue their Faith into the Scripture because they which actually resolue their Faith into the Doctrine of the Scripture doe virtually and mediatly resolue the same into the verie Scripture euen as he that actually beleeueth the kings proclamation doth virtually beleeue the kings authoritie although he know the king or his authoritie confusedly and in generall only The Text of holy Scripture and the distinct sayings and sentences thereof are the principall and finall externall ground whereupon the whole bodie of the Church must ground their Faith But as there is a diuersitie of the members of the Church 1. Cor. 12.20 so likewise there is a difference betweene them in the manner of resoluing Faith for the stronger and firmer members are able to resolue their Faith distinctly into Scripture but the weaker members whose Faith as Bonauenture speaketh is diminuta seeble and imperfect in respect of the distinct apprehension of the obiect of Faith are guided by the stronger as children by a nurse And these little ones are taught the truth of heauenly Doctrine 1. By their parents or ecclesiasticall teachers and they know the Scriptures to be truely translated not by their owne skill but by crediting others which are able to iudge But being thus farre directed and persuaded by humane meanes then the light of Gods word it selfe by the power of Grace persuadeth them as a diuine cause to yeeld full assent to all such verities as are necessarie to be beleeued by them to saluation IESVIT And this is that which Protestants must meane if they haue any true meaning when they say that the common people knew Scriptures to be truely translated by the light of the Doctrine shining in true Translations to wit by the light of Doctrine receiued by Tradition of Ancestors and thereupon so firmely beleeue as they will acknowledge Scriptures to be truely translated so farre and no farther than they perceiue them consonant with the Faith deliuered vnto them so that their last and finall resolution for substantiall points is not into Scripture truly translated into their vulgar tongue but into Tradition by the light whereof they discerne that their Translations are true more or lesse according to the measure of knowledge they haue by Tradition ANSVVER The summe of the former obiection is Vnlearned people are not able without the helpe and instruction of others to resolue their Faith into the Scriptures Therefore the Scripture is not the finall and greatest stay and ground of Faith The Argument is denied for as in Arts and Sciences an vnskilfull person cannot resolue his knowledge into the first principles vntill he be taught the meaning of words and the sence of rules and precepts but when he is taught and vnderstandeth these then he maketh resolution into the very first principles themselues So likewise in beleeuing the Obiect of Faith must be taught the sence of the words and matter declared the grounds and reasons of credibilitie deliuered and then the beleeuer principally and immediately settles the resolution of his Faith not vpon these helps and instruments which are only dispofitiue and adiuuant causes but vpon the first principles themselues expressely or deriuatiuely contained in holy Scripture And whereas Dr. Ioh. Wh. is produced affirming in the behalfe of all Protestants that common people know Scriptures to be truely translated by the light of the Doctrine shining in true Translations First Dr. Wh. in the place assigned speaketh not in particular of common people but of the true Church in which are found many persons skilfull and learned Secondly he deliuereth other meanes besides the light of Doctrine whereby the Church may know that Translations are true to wit knowledge of Tongues rules of Art ministerie of the Word to which I adde analogie of Faith the testimonie of the 〈◊〉 Church and best learned in all ages All these are helpes and instruments of right Translations and when the Scriptures are translated they manifest their Author and sacred authoritie to such as in a right manner are conuersant in hearing or reading them And this is not only the Tenet of Protestants but besides the antient Fathers of moderate Papists themselues There is saieth one of them

whole Councell depended vpon him and his confirmation was then vnknowne and I verily thinke at this day not beleeued by your selues 5. Fiftly it must be considered If a Generall Councell may erre Who shall iudge it S. Augustine is at priora à posterioribus Nothing sure that is lesse than a Generall Councell Why but this yet layes all open to vncertainties and makes way for a Whirlewind of a priuate spirit to ruffle the Church No neither of these First all is not open to Vncertainties For Generall Councels lawfully called and ordered and lawfully proceeding are a great and an awfull Representation and cannot erre in matters of Faith if they keepe themselues to Gods Rule and attempt not to make a new of their owne and are with all submission to be obserued by euerie Christian where Scripture or euident Demonstration come not against it Nor doth it make way for the Whirlewind of a priuate spirit For priuate spirits are too giddie to rest vpon Scripture and too headie and shallow to be acquainted with demonstratiue Arguments And it were happie for the Church if shee might neuer be troubled with priuate spirits till they brought such Arguments I know this is hotely obiected against Hooker The Author calls him a wise Protestant yet turnes thus vpon him If a Councell must yeeld to a demonstratiue proofe Who shall iudge whether the Argument that is brought be a Demonstration or not For euerie man that will kicke against the Church will say the Scripture he vrges is euident and his Reason a Demonstration And what is this but to leaue all to the wildnesse of a priuate spirit Can any ingenuous man reade this passage in Hooker and dreame of a priuate spirit For to the Question Who shall iudge Hooker answers as if it had beene then made An Argument necessarie and demonstratiue is such saith hee as being proposed to any man and vnderstood the mind cannot chuse but inwardly assent vnto it So it is not enough to thinke or say it is demonstratiue The light then of a Demonstratiue Argument is the euidence which it selfe hath in it selfe to all that vnderstand it Well but because all vnderstand it not If a Quarrell be made who shall decide it No question but a Generall Councell not a priuate spirit first in the intent of the Author for Hooker in all that discourse makes the Sentence of the Councell binding and therefore that is made Iudge not a priuat spirit And then for the Iudge of the Argument it is as plaine For if it be euident to any man then to so many learned men as are in a Councell doubtlesse And if they cannot but assent it is hard to thinke them so impious that they will define against it And if that which is euident to any man is not euident to such a graue Assembly it is no Demonstration and the producers of it ought to rest and not to trouble the Church Nor is this Hookers alone nor is it newly thought on by vs It is a ground in Nature which Grace doth euer set right neuer vndermine And S. Augustine hath it twice in one Chapter That S. Cyprian and that Councell at Carthage would haue presently yeelded to any one that would demonstrate Truth Nay it is a Rule with him Consent of Nations Authoritie confirmed by Miracles and Antiquitie S. Peters Chaire and Succession from it Motiues to keepe him in the Catholike Church must not hold him against Demonstration of Truth which if it be so clearely monstrated that it cannot come into doubt it is to be preferred before all those things by which a man is held in the Catholike Church Therefore an euident Scripture or Demonstration of Truth must take place euerie where but where these cannot be had there must be submission to Authoritie And doth not Bellarmine himselfe graunt this For speaking of Councels he deliuers this Proposition That Inferiors may not iudge whether their Superiors and that in a Councell doe proceed lawfully or not But then hauing bethought himselfe that Inferiors at all times and in all causes are not so to be cast off hee addes this Exception Vnlesse it manifestly appeare that an intollerable Error be committed So then if such an Error be and be manifest Inferiors may doe their dutie and a Councell must yeeld vnlesse you will accuse Bellarmine too of leaning to a priuate spirit for neither doth hee expresse who shall iudge whether the Error be intollerable This will not downe with you but the Definition of a Generall Councell is and must be infallible Your fellowes tell vs and you can affirme no more That the voyce of the Church determining in Councell is not Humane but Diuine That is well Diuine then sure infallible Yea but the Proposition stickes in the throat of them that would vtter it It is not Diuine simply but in a manner Diuine Why but then sure not infallible because it may speake loudest in that manner in which it is not Diuine Nay more The Church forsooth is an infallible Foundation of Faith in a higher kind than the Scripture For the Scripture is but a Foundation in testimonie and matter to be beleeued but the Church as the efficient cause of Faith and in some sort the verie formall Is not this Blasphemie Doth not this knocke against all euidence of Truth and his owne grounds that sayes it Against all euidence of Truth For in all ages all men that once admitted the Scripture to be the Word of God as all Christians doe doe with the same breath graunt it most vndoubted and infallible But all men haue not so iudged of the Churches Definitions though they haue in greatest obedience submitted to them And against his owne grounds that sayes it For the Scripture is absolutely and euerie way Diuine the Churches Definition is but suo modo in a sort or manner Diuine But that which is but in a sort can neuer be a Foundation in a higher degree than that which is absolute and euerie way such Therefore neyther can the Definition of the Church be so infallible as the Scripture much lesse in altiori genere in a higher kind than the Scripture But because when all other things faile you flye to this That the Churches Definition in a Generall Councell is by Inspiration and so Diuine and infallible my hast shall not carrie me from a little Consideration of that too 6. Sixtly then If the Definition of a Generall Councell be infallible then the infallibilitie of it is either in the Conclusion and in the Meanes that prooue it or in the Conclusion not the Meanes or in the Meanes not the Conclusion But it is infallible in none of these Not in the first The Conclusion and the Meanes For there are diuers deliberations in Generall Councels where the Conclusion is Catholike but the Meanes by which they prooue it not firme therefore not infallible Not

Ibid. cap. 2. Quas oues quem Gregem non solum tune Beatus 〈◊〉 Petrus sed nobiscum eas suscepit cumillo cas nos suscepimus omnes b Iren. lib. 4. cap. 43. Eis qui in Ecclesia sunt Presbyteris obaudire oporter his qui successionem habent ab Apostolis qui cum Episcopatus successione Charisma veritatis certum secundum placitum Patris acceperunt Ibid. cap. 44. Qui Apostolorum Doctrinam custodiunt Greg. Nazian Orat. 21. d. laud. Basil. Qui eandem Fidei doctrinam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quoque throni particeps est c. a Bellarm. d. Pontif Rom. praef Extrauag com l. 1. tit 9. d. Maior obed ca. vnam sanctam Subesse Rom. Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus dicimus definimus pronunciam ' omnino esse de necessitate salutis Paul Cararia sum mor. Canon q. 2. ar 4. p. 4. n. 26. Non solum omnis fidelis populus verum etiam infidelis omnis rationalis creatura Papae imperio subiacet b Canus loc l. 6. c. 8. Romanum Pontif. Petrosucoedere non est perse quidem in Sacris literis Reuelatum Dried d. Ecclesia Dogm l. 4. c. 3. c Soto 4. Sent. Dist. 24. q. 2. ar 5. Nulli particulari Ecclesiae addixit neque aliunde institutio Christi circa hoc constat c. Cusan Concord Cath. l. 2. c. 34. pa. 599. Non 〈◊〉 probari Rom. Pontif. perpetuum Principem 〈◊〉 esse Succession in loco non 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 AEneus Sylu. d. gest Basil. Concil l. 1. Ioannes 〈◊〉 The 〈◊〉 peritissimus glossam illam singularem quae Rom. Ecclesiam orbi praeponeret dixitse omnino contemnere beneque singularem esse quae tam fatua diceret indignumque fore vt illam quispiam 〈◊〉 c. a Chrys in Act. Apost Hom. 3. Petrus egit omnia ex communi Discipulorum 〈◊〉 nihil ex 〈◊〉 nihil cum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b Saint 〈◊〉 liued 30. yeeres after Saint Peter Baron annual to 1. An. 69. n. 1. to 2. Anno. 101. n. 2. 〈◊〉 Haer. 66. Praeterijt generatio Apostolorum à Petro inquam vsque ad 〈◊〉 Ioannem qui etiam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in mundo vsque ad 〈◊〉 tempora c Eusebius in his 〈◊〉 Historie speaketh no word of it Bulenger c. 〈◊〉 Si quando apud Eusebium aliosque nonnullos de potestate sedis Apostolicae Paulo obscurius agi videris Sic 〈◊〉 ante be 〈◊〉 illud 〈◊〉 seculum c. d 〈◊〉 apud Cypr. Ep. 75. Atque ego in hac parte 〈◊〉 indignor ad hanc tam apertam manifestam Stephani stultitiam quod qui sic de Episcopatus sui loco gloriatur se successionem Petri tenere contendit Tertul. d. pud c. 21. De tua nunc sententia quero vndè hoc 〈◊〉 Ecclesiae vsurpes Si quia dixerit Petro. Dominus super hanc Petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam tibi dedi claues Regni caelorum velquaecunque alligaueris c. Qualis es euertens atque commutans manifestam Domini intenrionem personaliter hoc Petro conferentem super te inquit aedificabo Ecclesiam meam e Euseb. Hist. l. 5. c. 26. f Chalced. Concil Act. 16. ca. 28. Centum quinquaginta Dei amantiss Episc. sanctiss noua Roma throno 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aequalia 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 recte iudicantes vrbem quae imperio senatu honorata sit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aequalibus 〈◊〉 antiquiss Regina Roma priuilegijs fruatur etiam in rebus Ecclesiast non secus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ac illa extolli magni fieri secundam post illam existentem g Greg. li. 4. Epist. 31. 32. 34. 38. 39. li. 6. Epist. 24. Cusan Concord Cath. li. 2. c. 34. h Graeci Asiani c. Nilus Archiepisc. 〈◊〉 l. c. d. Primat Papae a 〈◊〉 d. Spir. sanct ca. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Damas. lib. 4. ca. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Cyril in Iohan. li. 4. ca. 9. Ianua via in vitamsides est recursus quidam atquè reductio à corruptione in immortalitatem Aug. d. Temp. Serm. 181. Fides omnium bonorum est 〈◊〉 humanae salutis initium Sine hac nemo ad numerum 〈◊〉 Dei 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sine 〈◊〉 in hoc seculo nec iustificationis consequitur gratiam nec in futuro possidebit vitam 〈◊〉 Fulgent d. Incarn Grat. c. 20. Vita nostra à fide sumit initium quia justus ex fide viuit 〈◊〉 Sum. li. 3. 〈◊〉 12. q. 2. Nos sequentes authoritatem Apostoli expositiones Sanctorum dicimus quod fides formata praecedit omnem aliam 〈◊〉 Origen sup c. 4. ep ad Rom. Aug. sup Psal. 31. Et d. Verb. Apost serm 22. b Meisner Anthrop Dec. 3. p. 329. Credimus peccata nobis esse remissa sed haec fides formalitèr non iustificat verum 〈◊〉 sequitur c Musculus loc com d. Remiss pecc sect 6. Discernendum est intèr eam gratiam Dei quae nullas habet adiectas conditiones qualis est quod Solem suum producit supèr bonos 〈◊〉 c. Et cam quae conditionaliter confertur ad quem modum remissio peccatorum nobis contingit d Beza Colloq Mompelgard pa. 471. Edit Tubing Consolatio quod adoptati sumus petenda est ex effectis spiritus sancti quandò videlicet sentimus in nobis eiusmodi motus spiritus sancti qui testificantur nos vetè regeneratos e Aug. d. Cor. Grat. c. 13. Quis ex multitudine fidelium quamdiu in hac mortalitate viuitur in numero 〈◊〉 se esse praesumat quià id occultari opus est in hoc loco vbi cauenda est elatio a Ioh. Ferus sup Math. 8. v. 8. Vera fides fiducialitèr accedit nòn dubitat Deū posse aut velle ca. 9. v. 2. Fides haec nihil aliud fuit quā fiducia in misericordiā Christi b The manner of this 〈◊〉 assent is Being humbled with sence of mine owne iniustice I beleeue that God will be mercifull vnto me and pardō all my sinnes for the merits of Christ my Sauior and I depend and relie only vpon the merits of my Rodeemer as vpon the prime cause of my iustification c Iansen Conc. Euang. c. 32 p. 206. Nomine fidei in Euangelijs cùm ei tribuitur salus aut consecutio omniū 〈◊〉 volumus compleri vtrumque nempè assensum illū firmum in credendis de Deo ac Christo fiduciam ex illius omnipotente bonitare conceptam Bernard ser. 3. d. Annunciat Nèc oleum misericordiae nisi in vase fiduciae ponis d 〈◊〉 Dicimus Fidem in disputatione Paudi de iustificatione accipi vt complectatur non solum 〈◊〉 verùm etiàm 〈◊〉 in Christum propitiatorem e Ferus sup Math. c. 8. citatur à Sixto Senensi Biblioth lib. 6. 〈◊〉 48. Non sempèr Fides est quod nos Fidem dicimus Fidem nos dicimus 〈◊〉

haue vs reade touching his owne sayings and workes this hee commanded the Euangelists as it were his owne hands to write And in another place Although Christ spake and wrought some things which are not written yet those things which seemed vnto him sufficient to the saluation of beleeuers were selected to be written Saint Cyrill also affirmeth that all things which Christ did are not written but so much as holy writers iudged sufficient both for good manners and godly faith to the end that we shining in right faith good workes and vertue may attaine the heauenly Kingdome By the iudgement of these Fathers the holy Euangelists committed to writing so much of our Sauiours Doctrine and deeds as is sufficient for people to know that they may bee illustrious in faith and vertue and by the light whereof they may come to saluation In these things therefore the Euangelists did not cursorily touch matters but largely and fully deliuer them Secondly if the Scriptures containe all things sufficient to saluation yea more than is sufficient then the Apostles in their Scriptures did not cursorily or by the way onely touch matters But the first is affirmed both by the Fathers and confessed by some learned Papists Vincent 〈◊〉 The Canon of the Scripture is perfit and in it selfe sufficient for all matters yea more than sufficient Antonius Perez Pentateuch fidei vol. 4. c. 21. If the Scripture be compared and applied with things which faith teacheth as necessarie to saluation the same is apparently redundant and superfluous according to the nature of a rule because there be many things yea most things in the same the knowledge whereof is vnnecessarie But if the Scripture containe many 〈◊〉 superfluous and more than is needfull it is improbable 〈◊〉 thinke that it is imperfect in Principals or deliuereth them 〈◊〉 onely or by the way Thirdly the variety and multitude of points and doctrines of faith and good manners and the often repeating and declaring of them in the holy Scriptures prooueth that the Apostles 〈◊〉 fully and perfectly deliuer in their writings the whole 〈◊〉 of Christian faith and not onely cursorily touch them For all supernaturall veritie concerning the sacred Deitie Trinitie diuine Attributes and Operations Creation of the world c. is taught in holy Scripture In like manner the whole doctrine of faith concerning the Incarnation Person and Office of Christ is reuealed vnto vs by holy Scripture And for this cause Saint Cyrill calleth the Scriptures Solos fontes veritatis The sole fountaines of veritie All things concerning Iustification Charitie and good workes being meerely supernaturall are taught in Scripture The doctrine of the Law Gospell Sacraments resurrection of the dead finall iudgement c. is intirely and fully reuealed in the holy Scriptures and the Church according to Saint Augustine hath onely two brests wherewith shee feedeth her children to wit the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament And that he alwayes vnderstandeth by the Old and New Testament the Scriptures of both appeareth by his words vpon Psal. 22. Aperi legamus c. Let vs open our Fathers last Testament and reade it And 〈◊〉 the great 〈◊〉 Apostolice 〈◊〉 nec non antiquorum Prophetarum 〈◊〉 plane 〈◊〉 de sensu Numinis The Euangelicall and Apostolicall bookes together with the Oracles of the antient Prophets doe plainely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euidently instruct vs concerning the minde of God And from all the former it is manifest that the Apostles writings are not patches and shreds onely of Apostolicall Doctrine as our 〈◊〉 against all antiquitie presumeth to affirme but the very substance and marrow of their whole Preaching containing the summe of the Gospell by faith and obedience whereof wee receiue euerlasting life And thus much touching the Antecedent of the Iesuits Argument The sequel of the former Argument which is Because without precedent instruction by vnwritten Tradition wee cannot be firmely assured that wee haue the right sence of the Scripture therefore the last and finall resolution is made vnto vnwritten Tradition and not into Scripture is inconsequent and the Antecedent proueth not the Consequent for precedent Tradition may bee necessarie to deliuer vnto vs the text of holy Scripture and Precpts how to expound and vse the same and by Tradition wee may receiue a Commentarie of some texts of holy Scripture yet euen as a Schollar although hee receiue the bookes of Euclid and Aristotle from a Master and precepts in what sort hee shall proceed in his studie and withall a Commentary declaring the meaning of these Authours yet hee doth not finally being made learned himselfe resolue his knowledge into the former but into the principles of these Arts themselues so likewise a nouice in faith receiueth the holy Scripture by Ministerie and Tradition of the Church and Precepts and Commentaries whereby hee is first inabled and afterwards holpen in the right exposition thereof yet after this Introduction by further studie and diligence hee collecteth Arguments from the Scripture it selfe and being instructed in the sence thereof he doth not finally resolue his beleefe into the Commentarie and Introduction but into the text or Doctrine of holy Scripture it selfe IESVIT Hence I may further inferre that Protestants haue not throughly pondered the place of the Apostle vnto Timothie which they 〈◊〉 vehemently vrge to prooue the sufficiencie of sole Scripture for euery man as though he had said absolutely that the Scriptures are able to instruct or make men wise vnto Saluation which he saith not but speaking particularly vnto Timothie saith They are able to instruct or make thee wise vnto saluation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hast been aforehand instructed by word of mouth and doost thereupon firmely beleeue all substantiall Doctrines and knowest all the necessarie practise of Christian Discipline ANSWER The Aduersarie in this passage vseth certaine Arguments to prooue that Protestants misunderstand the Text of S. Paul 2. Timoth. 3.15 16. when they vrge the same to maintaine the sufficiencie of sole Scripture to be a ground for all Christians finally to rest their faith vpon His first Argument is The Apostle saith not absolutely that the Scriptures are able to make all men wise vnto Saluation but particularly to Timothie a man instructed aforehand and formerly 〈◊〉 all substantiall grounds of Doctrine and Discipline they are able 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to make thee being such a one and so prepared wise c. To this I answere 1. That although sentences of holy Scripture are sometimes restrained to the personall or particular subiect of which they are first spoken yet this is not generall and when the same happeneth it must be prooued by better Arguments than by the bare Emphasis of a word For God said to Ioshua a man qualified aboue the ordinarie ranke I will not leaue thee nor forsake thee Ioshua 1. 5. yet the promise implied in this Text is generall and common to all iust

part onely is immediately the Word of God and the other part is a collection arising vpon reflection and obseruation of a mans owne qualities and actions and the conclusion is more or lesse certaine according to the condition of the second Proposition Fourthly The certaintie and assurance of their owne particular Iustification which iust persons attaine vnto is reduced by vs to certaintie and assurance of Faith because one ground thereof is a Proposition or Sentence mediately Diuine the other is inferred and concluded from that which is Diuine for the Rule by which a man discerneth himselfe to beleeue and repent is the Doctrine of Gods Word declaring the qualitie of Faith and Repentance Many Pontificians maintaine That this Proposition to wit Pope Gregorie the fifteenth is S. Peters Successor is of Faith and yet the same is not an immediate Diuine Reuelation and the collection thereof from that which is reuealed is lesse euident and certaine than that which a iust person maketh concerning his owne particular Faith and Charitie Fiftly The difference betweene some learned Papists who liued since the Trident Councell and vs concerning this Question is very small if it be any at all for they maintaine That iust persons may haue a true and certaine assurance without distrustfull doubting of their Iustification and that infused Faith enclineth and leadeth immediately to this certaintie and assurance And it is worthie obseruation which Andreas Vega deliuereth concerning the Trident Councell saying Non negat sciri hoc posse per fidem sed tantum negat sciri hoc posse certitudine fidei The Councell denyeth not that one may be able to know by Faith that he is in the state of Grace but it denyeth onely that this can be knowne by certaintie of Faith It is also remarkable That whiles the Romists accuse vs about the definition of iustifying Faith they forget the Beame which is in their owne eye for they make such a Faith the foundation of true Iustification as is common with Deuils Iam. 2. 19. and which according to their owne Doctrine is no true Vertue It is saith Michael Palacius a great Question and as yet vndecided among vs Whether Faith be a true Vertue or not and Albertus thinketh it is not properly a Vertue but onely improperly Aquinas It hath not a perfect Act and therefore it cannot be a Vertue The like is affirmed by Bonauenture Durand Archangelus Rubeo c. And the same is manifest by reason For Vertue is a good qualitie making the person in whom it is seated and his actions good and the Faith which the holy Scripture and the antient Fathers require to Iustification purifieth the heart Acts 15.9 and impelleth vnto righteousnesse Heb. 11. 33. But informed Catholike Faith performeth none of these things Iam. 2. 17. And therefore the Romists depart from the Scripture and from Antiquitie when they appoint a dead and informed Faith which is no Vertue to be the foundation of true Iustification Lastly Our Doctrine concerning the forme and manner of Iustification is the same which Peter Lombard the Maister of the Schoole affirmed to be Orthodoxall in his dayes His words are these Wee are said also to be iustified by the death of Christ because by the Faith of his Death wee are cleansed from our sinnes Whereupon the Apostle saith The righteousnesse of God is by the Faith of Iesus Christ Rom. 3. 22. whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through Faith in his bloud Verse 25. that is through Faith of his Passion euen as in times past they which were bitten of fierie Serpents were made whole by looking vpon the Brazen Serpent which was raysed vpon a peece of Wood. If therefore wee by the aspect of Faith rightly behold him who was hanged vpon a Tree for vs wee are loosed from the bonds of Sathan to wit from our sinnes 〈◊〉 Vega affirmeth That many Romane Doctors in former dayes denyed that men were formally iustified by any created qualitie inhaerent but onely by the free grace and fauour of God accepting man and imparting the righteousnesse of Christ vnto him And that vntill the Trident Councell the present Doctrine of Pontificians concerning the formall cause of Iustification was onely receiued as probable And before the said Councell many learned Papists to wit Albertus Pighius the Councell of Colen set forth by Gropper Antididagma Coloniense Conradus Clingius c. maintained our Doctrine concerning the formall cause of Iustification and were not condemned of Heresie by the Romane Church Wherefore the same cannot in these dayes be a fundamentall Error in vs. IESVIT FIftly Their extenuating the value of the price of our Redemption not making it sufficient to giue inward sanctitie and puritie to mens soules nor to rayse the good Workes of Gods children to a due proportion with their reward ANSWER NO Christian Church euer prised the oblation and merits of Christ more highly and religiously than wee Heb. 10. 14. Eph. 5.2 Acts 4. 12. Ioh. 1.29 and wee firmely beleeue the inestimable price and vertue thereof for mans Redemption Sanctification Iustification and Glorification 1. Cor. 1. 30. And in particular wee beleeue expressely and contrarie to our Aduersaries accusation That the same is all-sufficient to iustifie a sinner in the sight of God and to giue true and inhaerent sanctitie and puritie to mens soules and actions first in this life sanctitie and puritie secundum statum viae according to the condition of mans wayfaring state secondly in the life to come sanctitie and puritie of perfect righteousnesse without error or sinne And we beleeue that the Sacrifice of Christ vpon the Crosse effecteth all this both by way of merit and influence Rom. 6. 3 4 5. Ioh. 15. 1. c. What then doth this Popish Momus accuse in our Doctrine I suppose his owne fancie for it is ordinarie with Papals to calumniate saying That wee hold Good workes to be mortall sinnes and that they are Vertues onely by extrinsecall denomination and hee is also offended that wee make not Good workes properly and condignely meritorious Concerning the first I referre my Reader to the words of Melancthon and Beza who treating of this Question speake as followeth Although the workes of regenerate persons are not so perfect and good as that they are able to merit eternall life yet they are truly good because they proceed from the Holy Ghost who purisieth the heart by Faith and because God is glorified by them and wee our selues receiue excellent fruit by them c. The same are good in regard of their obiect forme efficient and end Psal. 119. 167. Galath 5.22 Phil. 2.13 1. Cor. 10.31 They are good fruits opposed to euill fruits Matth. 7.17 workes of Light opposed to workes of Darknesse Eph. 5.9 a spirituall Sacrifice acceptable to God Phil. 4.18 And the same are truly good non comparatione scelerum not

which it can comprehend Now the vse of Reason is verie generall and man doe what he can is still apt to search and seeke for a Reason why he will beleeue though after he once beleeues his Faith growes stronger than either his Reason or his Knowledge and great reason for this because it goes higher than eyther of the other can in this life In this particular the Bookes called the Scripture are commonly and constantly reputed to be the Word of God and so infallible Veritie to the least Point of them Doth any man doubt this The World cannot keepe him from going to weigh it at the Ballance of Reason whether it be the Word of God or not To the same Weights he brings the Tradition of the Church the inward motiues in Scripture it selfe all Testimonies within which seeme to beare witnesse to it and in all this there 's no harme the danger is when a man will vse no other Scale but Reason for the Word of God and the Booke containing it refuse not to be weighed by Reason But the Scale is not large enough to containe nor the Weights to measure out the true vertue and 〈◊〉 force of either Reason then can giue no supernaturall ground into which a man may resolue his Faith That Scripture is the Word of God infallibly yet Reason can goe so high as it can prooue that Christian Religion which rests vpon the Authoritie of this Booke stands vpon surer grounds of Nature Reason common Equitie and Iustice than any thing in the World which any Infidell or meere Naturallist hath done doth or can adhere vnto against it in that which he makes accounts or assumes as Religion to himselfe The antient Fathers relyed vpon the Scriptures no Christians more and hauing to doe with Philosophers men verie well seene in all the subtleties which naturall Reason could teach or learne they were often put to it and did as often make it good That they had sufficient warrant to relye as much as they did vpon Scripture In all which Disputes because they were to deale with Infidels they did labour to make good the Authoritie of the Booke of God by such arguments as vnbeleeuers themselues could not but thinke reasonable if they 〈◊〉 them with indifferencie And it is not altogether impossible to prooue it euen by Reason a Truth infallible or else to make them denie some apparant Principle of their owne For example It is an apparant Principle and with them That God or the absolute prime Agent cannot be forced out of any possession for if hee could be forced by another greater he were neither Prince nor Absolute nor God in their owne Theologie Now they must graunt That that God and Christ which the Scripture teaches and wee beleeue is the onely true God and no other with him and so denie the Deitie which they worshipped or else denie their owne Principle about the Deitie That God cannot be commanded and forced out of possession For their Gods Saturne and Serapis and Iupiter himselfe haue beene adiured by the name of the true and onely God and haue beene forced out of the bodies they possessed and confessed themselues to be foule and seducing Deuils And their confession was to be supposed true in point of Reason for they that were adored as Gods would neuer belie themselues into Deuils to their owne reproach especially in the presence of them that worshipped them were they not forced This many of the vnbeleeuers saw therefore they could not in verie force of Reason but they must either denie their God or denie their Principle in Nature Their long Custome would not forsake their God and their Reason could not forget their Principle If Reason therefore might iudge among them they could not worship any thing that was vnder command And if it be reasonable to doe and beleeue this then why not reasonable also to beleeue that the Scripture is his Word giuen to teach himselfe and Christ since there they find Christ doing that and giuing power to doe it after which themselues saw executed vpon their Deuill_Gods Besides whereas all other written Lawes haue scarce had the honour to be duly obserued or constantly allowed worthie approbation in the particular places where they haue beene established for Lawes this Law of Christ and this Canon of Scripture the container of it is or hath beene receiued in almost all Nations vnder Heauen And wheresoeuer it hath beene receiued it hath beene both approoued for vnchangeable Good and beleeued for infallible Veritie This persuasion could not haue beene wrought in men of all sorts but by working vpon their Reason vnlesse wee shall thinke all the World vnreasonable that receiued it And certainely God did not giue this admirable facultie of Reasoning to the Soule of man for any cause more prime than this to discouer or at least to iudge and allow of the way to himselfe when and howsoeuer it should be discouered One great thing that troubled Rationall men was that which stumbled the Manichee an Heresie it was but more than halfe Pagan namely That somewhat must be beleeued before much could be knowne Wise men vse not to beleeue but what they know And the Manichee scorned the Orthodox Christian as light of beleefe promising to lead no Disciple after him but vpon euident knowledge This stumbles many but yet the Principle That somewhat must be beleeued before much can be knowne stands firme in Reason still For if in all Sciences there be some Principles which cannot be prooued if Reason be able to see this and confesse it if almost all Artists haue granted it Who can iustly denie that to Diuinitie A Science of the highest Obiect God himselfe which he easily and reasonably grants to inferior Sciences which are more within his 〈◊〉 And as all Sciences suppose some Principles without proouing so haue they almost all some Text some Authoritie vpon which they relye in some measure and it is Reason they should For though these make not their Texts infallible as Diuinitie doth yet full consent and prudent examination and long continuance haue woon reputation to them and settled reputation vpon them verie deseruedly For were these Texts more void of Truth than they are yet it were fit to vphold their credit that Nouices and young beginners in a Science which are not yet able to worke strongly vpon Reason nor Reason vpon them may haue Authoritie to beleeue till they can learne to conclude from Principles and so to know Is this also reasonable in other Sciences and shall it not be so in Theologie to haue a Text a Scripture a Rule which Nouices may be taught first to beleeue that so they may after come to the knowledge of those things which out of this rich Principle and Treasure are deduceable I yet see not how right Reason can denie these grounds and if it cannot then a meere naturall man may be thus farre conuinced That the