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cause_n	believe_v	faith_n	justification_n	2,857	5	9.3476	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A04250	A remonstrance of the most gratious King Iames I. King of Great Britaine, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, &c. For the right of kings, and the independance of their crownes. Against an oration of the most illustrious Card. of Perron, pronounced in the chamber of the third estate. Ian. 15. 1615. Translated out of his Maiesties French copie.; Declaration du serenissime Roy Jaques I. Roy de la Grand' Bretaigne France et Irlande, defenseur de la foy. English	James I, King of England, 1566-1625.; Betts, Richard, 1552-1619.	1616 (1616)	STC 14369; ESTC S107609	113,081	306

to put vp his Catholike Sonnes proceeding to the Cardinalls disgrace neuer opened his mouth against the King neuer declared or noted the King to bee schismaticall Hee waits perhaps for some fitter opportunitie when the Kingdome of Spaine groaning vnder the burthens of intestine dissentions and troubles he may without any danger to himselfe giue the Catholike King a Bishops mate Yea the L. Cardinall himselfe is better seen in the humors and inclinations of the Christian world then to be grossely perswaded that in the Kingdome of Spaine and in the very heart of Rome it selfe there be not many which either make it but a ieast or else take it in fowle scorne to heare the Popes power ouer the Crownes of Kings once named especially since the Venetian Republike hath put his Holinesse to the worse in the same cause and cast him in Lawe What needed the L. Cardinall then by casting vp such mounts and trenches by heaping one amplification vpon an other to make schisme looke with such a terrible and hideous aspect Who knowes not how great an offence how heinous a crime it is to quarter not Iesus Christs coat but his body which is the Church And what needed such terrifying of the Church with vglinesse of schisme whereof there is neither colourable shew nor possibility The next vgly monster after schisme shaped by the L. Cardinall in the third supposed and pretended inconuenience is heresie His Lordship saith for the purpose By this Article we are cast headlong into a manifest heresie as binding vs to confesse that for many ages past the Catholike Church hath been banished out of the whole world For if the champions of the doctrine contrary to this Article doe hold an impious and a detestable opinion repugnant vnto Gods word then doubtlesse the Pope for so many hundred yeers expired hath not been the head of the Church but an heretike and the Antechrist He addeth moreouer That the Church long agoe hath lost her name of Catholike and that in France there hath no Church flourished nor so much as appeared these many and more then many yeeres for as much as all the French Doctors for many yeeres together haue stood for the contrary opinion We can erect and set vp no trophey more honourable for heretikes in token of their victorie then to avowe that Christs visible Kingdome is perished from the face of the earth and that for so many hundred yeeres there hath not beene any Temple of God nor any spouse of Christ but euery where and all the world ouer the Kingdome of Antechrist the Synagogue of Satan the spouse of the Deuill hath mightily preuailed and borne all the sway Lastly what stronger engines can these heretikes wish or desire for the battering and the demolishing of transubstantiation of auricular confession and other like towers of our Catholike religion then if it should bee graunted the Church hath decided the said points without any authoritie c. Me thinkes the Lord Cardinall in the whole draught and course of these words doth seeke not a little to blemish the honour of his Church and to marke his religion with a blacke coale For the whole frame of his mother-Church is very easie to be shaken if by the establishing of this Article she shall come to finall ruine and shall become the Synagoue of Satan Likewise Kings are brought into a very miserable state and condition if their Soueraigntie shall not stand if they shall not be without danger of deposition but by the totall ruine of the Church and by holding the Pope whome they serue to be Antechrist The L. Cardinall himselfe let him be well sifted herein doth not credit his owne words For doth not his Lordship tell vs plaine that neither by diuine testimonie nor by any sentence of the ancient Church the knot of this controuersie hath been vntyed againe that some of the French by the Popes fauourable indulgence are licensed or tolerated to say their mind to deliuer their opinion of this question though contrarie to the iudgement of his Holines prouided they hold it onely as problematicall and not as necessary What Can there be any assurance for the Pope that he is not Antechrist for the Church of Rome that she is not a Synagogue of Satan when a mans assurance is grounded vpon wauering and wild vncertanties without Canon of Scrpture without consent or countenance of antiquity and in a cause which the Pope with good leaue suffereth some to tosse with winds of problematicall opinion It hath beene shewed before that by Gods word whereof small reckoning perhaps is made by venerable antiquity and by the French Church in those times when the Popes power was mounted aloft the doctrine which teaches deposing of Kings by the Pope hath been checked and countermaunded What did the French in those dayes beleeue the Church was then swallowed vp and no where visible or extant in the world No verily Those that make the Pope of Soueraigne authoritie for matters of faith are not perswaded that in this cause they are bound absolutely to beleeue and credit his doctrine Why so Because they take it not for any decree or determination of faith but for a point pertaining to the mysteries of State and a pillar of the Popes Temporal Monarchy who hath not receiued any promise from God that in causes of this nature hee shall not erre For they hold that errour by no meanes can crawle or scramble vp to the Papall See so highly mounted but graunt ambition can scale the highest walls and climbe the loftiest pinnacles of the same See They hold withall that in a case of so speciall aduantage to the Pope whereby he is made King of Kings and as it were the pay-master or distributer of Crownes it is against all reason that hee should sit as Iudge to carue out Kingdoms for his own share To be short let his Lordship be assured that he meets with notorious blocke-heads more blunt witted then a whetstone when they are drawne to beleeue by his perswasion that whosoeuer beleeues the Pope hath no right nor power to put Kings beside their Thrones to giue and take away Crownes are all excluded and barred out of the heauenly Kingdome But now followes a worse matter For they whome the Cardinall reproachfully calls heretikes haue wrought and wonne his Lordship as to me seemeth to plead their cause at the barre and to betray his owne cause to these heretikes For what is it in his Lordship but plaine playing the Praeuaricator when he cryeth so loud that by admitting and establishing of this Article the doctrine of cake-incarnation and priuy Confession to a Priest is vtterly subuerted Let vs heare his reason and willingly accept of the truth from his lips The Articles as his Lordshippe graunteth of Transubstantiation auricular Confession and the Popes power to depose Kings are all grounded alike vpon the same authoritie Now he hath acknowledged the Article of the Popes power to depose Kings is

matter of truth I draw this conclusion Howsoeuer no smal number of the French Clergie may perhaps beare the affection of louing Subiects to their King and may not suffer the Clericall character to deface the impression of naturall allegiance yet for so much as the Order of Clerics is dipped in a deeper die and beareth a worse tincture of daungerous practises then the other Orders the third Estate had beene greatly wanting to their excellent prouidence and wisdome if they should haue relinquished and transferred the care of designements and proiects for the life of their King and the safetie of his Crowne to the Clergie alone Moreouer the Clergie standeth bound to referre the iudgment of all matters in controuersie to the sentence of the Pope in this cause beeing a partie and one that pretendeth Crownes to depend vpon his Mitre What hope then might the third Estate conceiue that his Holinesse would passe against his own cause when his iudgment of the controuersie had been sundrie times before published and testified to the world And whereas the plot or modell of remedies proiected by the third Estate and the Kings Officers hath not prooued sortable in the euent was it because the said remedies were not good and lawfull No verily but because the Clergie refused to become contributors of their duty meanes to the grand seruice Likewise for that after the burning of bookes addressed to iustifie rebellious people traytors and parricides of Kings neuerthelesse the authors of the said bookes are winked at and backt with fauour Lastly for that some wretched parricides drinke off the cuppe of publike iustice whereas to the firebrands of sedition the sowers of this abominable doctrine no man saith so much as blacke is their eye It sufficiently appeareth as I suppose by the former passage that his Lordship exhorting the third Estate to refer the whole care of this Regall cause vnto the Clergie hath tacked his frame of weake ioynts and tenons to a very worthy but wrong foundation Howbeit he laboureth to fortifie his exhortation with a more weak feeble reason For to make good his proiect he affirmes that matters and maximes out of all doubt question may not be shuffled together with points in controuersy Now his rules indubitable are two The first It is not lawfull to murther Kings for any cause whatsoeuer This he confirmeth by the example of Saul as he saith deposed from his Throne whose life or limbs Dauid neuerthelesse durst not once hurt or wrong for his life Likewise he confirmes the same by a Decree of the Council held at Constance His other point indubitable The Kings of France are Soueraignes in all Temporall Soueraigntie within the French Kingdome and hold not by fealtie either of the Pope as hauing receiued or obliged their Crownes vpon such tenure and condition or of any other Prince in the whole world Which point neuerthelesse he takes not for certen and indubitable but onely according to humane and historicall certentie Now a third point he makes to be so full of controuersie and so farre within the circle of disputable questions as it may not be drawne into the ranke of classicall and authenticall points for feare of making a certen point doubtfull by shuffling and jumbling therewith some point in controuersie Now the question so disputable as he pretendeth is this A Christian Prince breakes his oath solemnly taken to God both to liue and to die in the Catholique Religion Say this Prince turnes Arrian or Mahometan fals to proclaime open warre and to wage battel with Iesus Christ Whether may such a Prince be declared to haue lost his Kingdome and who shall declare the Subiects of such a Prince to be quit of their oath of allegiance The L. Cardinall holds the affirmatiue and makes no bones to maintaine that all other parts of the Catholique Church yea the French Church euen from the first birth of her Theologicall Schooles to Calvins time and teaching haue professed that such a Prince may be lawfully remooued from his Throne by the Pope and by the Council and suppose the contrarie doctrine were the very Quintessence or spirit of truth yet might it not in case of faith be vrged and pressed otherwise then by way of problematicall disceptation That is the summe of his Lordsh ample discourse The refuting whereof I am constrained to put off and referre vnto an other place because he hath serued vs with the same dishes ouer ouer againe There we shall see the L. Cardinall maketh way to the dispatching of Kings after deposition that Saul was not deposed as he hath presumed that in the Council of Constance there is nothing to the purpose of murthering Soueraigne Princes that his Lordship supposing the French King may be depriued of his Crowne by a superiour power doth not hold his liege Lord to be Soueraigne in France that by the position of the French Church from age to age the Kings of France are not subiect vnto any censure of deposition by the Pope that his Holinesse hath no iust and lawful pretence to produce that any Christian King holds of him by fealtie or is obliged to doe the Pope homage for his Crowne Well then for the purpose he dwelleth onely vpon the third point pretended questionable and this he affirmeth If any shall condemne or wrappe vnder the solemne curse the abettors of the Popes power to vnking lawfull and Soueraigne Kings the same shall runne vpon fowre dangerous rocks of apparant incongruities and absurdities First he shall offer to force and intangle the consciences of many deuout persons For hee shall bind them to beleeue and sweare that doctrine the contrary whereof is beleeued of the whole Church and hath beene beleeued by their predecessors Secondly he shall ouerturne from top to bottome the sacred authoritie of holy Church and shall set open a gate vnto all sorts of heresie by allowing lay-persons a bold libertie to be iudges in causes of religion and faith For what is that degree of boldnesse but open vsurping of the Priesthood what is it but putting of prophane hands into the Arke what is it but laying of vnholy fingers vpon the holy Censor for perfumes Thirdly he shal make way to a schisme not possible to be put by and auoided by any humane prouidence For this doctrine beeing held and professed by all other Catholicks how can we declare it repugnant vnto Gods word how can we hold it impious how can we accompt it detestable but we shall renounce communion with the head and other members of the Church yea we shall confesse the Church in all ages to haue been the Synagogue of Satan and the spouse of the Deuill Lastly by working the establishment of this Article which worketh an establishment of Kings Crownes He shall not onely worke the intended remedy for the danger of Kings out of all the vertue and efficacie thereof by weakening of doctrine out of all controuersie in packing it vp

an excommunicatorie Bull into Fraunce against Charles the King and all his Princes The Vniuersitie of Paris made request or motion that his Bull might be mangled and Pope Benedict himselfe by some called Petrus de Luna might be declared heretike schismatike and perturber of the peace The said Bull was mangled and rent in pieces according to the petition of the Vniuersity by Decree of Court vpon the 10. of Iune 1408. Tenne dayes after the Court rising at eleuen in the morning two Bul-bearers of the said excōmuncaitorie censure vnderwent ignominious punishment vpon the Palace or great Hall stayres From thence were lead to the Lovure in such manner as they had beene brought from thence before drawen in two tumbrells cladde in coates of painted linnen wore paper-mytres on their heads were proclaimed with sound of trumpet and euery where disgraced with publike derision So little reckoning was made of the Popes thundering canons in those daies And what would they haue done if the said Buls had imported sentence of deposition against King Charles The French Church assembled at Tours in the yeere 1510. decreed that Lewis XII might with safe conscience contemne the abusiue Bulls and vniust censures of Pope Julius the II. and by armes might withstand the Popes vsurpations in case hee should proceed to excommunicate or depose the King More by a Council holden at Pisa this Lewis declared the Pope to be fallen from the Popedome and coyned crowns with a stamp of this inscription I wil destroy the name of Babylon To this the L. of Perron makes answer that all this was done by the French as acknowledging these iars to haue sprung not from the fountaine of Religion but from passion of state Wherin he condemneth Pope Iulius for giuing so great scope vnto his publike censures as to serue his ambition and not rather to aduance Religion Hee secretly teacheth vs besides that when the Pope vndertakes to depose the King of France then the French are to sit as Iudges concerning the lawfulnesse or vnlawfulnesse of the cause and in case they shall finde the cause to be vnlawfull then to disannull his iudgements and to scoffe at his thunderbolts Iohn d' Albret King of Nauarre whose Realme was giuen by the foresaid Pope to Ferdinand King of Arragon was also wrapped and entangled with strict bands of deposition Now if the French had been touched with no better feeling of affection to their King then the subiects of Nauarre were to the Nauarrois doubtlesse France had sought a newe Lord by vertue of the Popes as the L. Cardinal himselfe doth acknowledge and confesse vniust sentence But behold to make the said sentence against Iohn d' Albret seeme the lesse contrary to equity the L. Cardinal pretends the Popes donation was not indeede the principall cause howsoeuer Ferdinand himselfe made it his pretence But his Lor. giues this for the principall cause that Iohn d' Albret had quitted his alliance made with condition that in case the Kings of Nauarre should infringe the said alliance and breake the league then the Kingdome of Nauarre should returne to the Crowne of Arragon This condition between Kings neuer made and without all shew of probabilitie serueth to none other purpose from the Cardinals mouth but onely to insinuate and worke a perrswasion in his King that he hath no right nor lawfull pretension to the Crowne of Nauarre and whatsoeuer hee nowe holdeth in the said Kingdome of Nauarre is none of his owne but by vsurpation and vnlawfull possession Thus his Lordshippe French-borne makes himselfe an Aduocate for the Spanish King against his owne King and King of the French who shall bee faine as he ought if this Aduocats plea may take place to draw his title and style of King of Nauarre out of his Royall titles and to acknowledge that all the great endeauours of his predecessors to recouer the said Kingdome were dishonourable and vniust Is it possible that in the very heart and head Citie of France a spirit tongue so licentious can be brooked What shall so great blasphemy as it were of the Kings freehold be powred forth in so honourable an assembly without punishment or fyne what without any contradiction for the Kings right and on the Kings behalfe I may perhaps confesse the indignitie might bee the better borne and the pretence aledged might passe for a poore excuse if it serued his purpose neuer so little For how doth all this touch or come neere the question in which the Popes vsurpation in the deposing of Kings and the resolution of the French in resisting this tyrannicall practise is the proper issue of the cause both which points are neuer a whit more of the lesse consequence and importance howsoeuer Ferdinand in his owne iustification stood vpon the foresaid pretence Thus much is confessed and we aske no more Pope Iulius tooke the Kingdome from the one and gaue it vnto the other the French thereupon resisted the Pope and declared him to bee fallen from the Papacie This noble spirit and courage of the French in maintaining the dignitie and honour of their Kings Crownes bredde those auncient customes which in the sequence of many ages haue beene obserued and kept in vse This for one That no Legate of the Pope nor any of his rescripts nor mandates are admitted and receiued in France without licence from the King and vnlesse the Legate impart his faculties to the Kings Atturney Generall to be perused and verified in Court of Parliament where they are to be tyed by certaine modifications restrictions vnto such points as are not derogatorie from the Kings right from the liberties of the Church and from the ordinances of the Kingdome When Cardinal Balva contrary to this ancient forme entred France in the yeare 1484. and there without leaue of the King did execute the Office and speed certaine Acts of the Popes Legat the Court vpon motion made by the Kings Atturney Generall decreed a Commission to be informed against him by two Councellors of the said Court and inhibited his further proceeding to vse any faculty or power of the Popes Legate vpon paine of beeing proclaimed rebell In the yeare 1561. Iohannes Tanquerellus Batchelor in Diuinitie by order of the Court was condemned to make open confession that hee had indiscreetly and rashly without consideration defended this proposition The Pope is the Vicar of Christ a Monarke that hath power both spirituall and secular and he may depriue Princes which rebel against his cōmandements of their dignities Which proposition howsoeuer he protested that he had propounded the same onely to be argued and not iudicially to be determined in the affirmatiue Tanquerellus neuerthelesse was compelled openly to recant Here the L. Cardinal answers The historie of Tanquerellus is from the matter because his proposition treateth neither of heresie nor of infidelitie but I answer the said proposition treateth of both for as much as

of King and continued in possession of his Kingdome euen to his dying day Yea the Scripture styles him King euen to the periodical and last day of his life by the testimonie of Dauid himselfe who both by Gods promise and by precedent vnction was then heire apparant as it were to the Crowne in a manner then ready to gird and adorne the temples of his head For if Samuel by Gods commaundement had then actually remooued Saul from his Throne doubtles the whole Church of Israel had committed a grosse error in taking and honouring Saul for their King after such deposition doubtlesse the Prophet Samuel himselfe making known the Lords ordinance vnto the people would haue enioyned them by strict prohibition to call him no longer the King of Israel doubtles Dauid would neuer haue held his hand from the throate of Saul for this respect and consideration because hee was the Lords annointed For if Saul had lost his Kingly authoritie from that instant when Samuel gaue him knowledge of his reiection then Dauid least otherwise the bodie of the Kingdome should want a Royal Head was to beginne his Raigne and to beare the Royall Scepter in the very same instant which were to charge the holy Scriptures with vntruth in as much as the sacred historie beginnes the computation of the yeers of Dauids raigne from the day of Sauls death True it is that in the 2. Sam. cap. 15. Saul was denounced by Gods owne sentence a man reiected and as it were excommunicated out of the Kingdome that he should not rule and raigne any longer as King ouer Israel neuerthelesse the said sentence was not put in execution before the day when God executing vpon Saul an exemplarie iudgement did strike him with death From whence it is manifest and cleare that when Dauid was annointed King by Samuel that action was onely a promise and a testimony of the choice which God had made of Dauid for succession immediately after Saul and not a present establishment inuestment or instalment of Dauid in the Kingdome Wee reade the like in 1. King cap. 19. where God commaundeth Elias the Prophet to annoint Hasael King of Syria For can any man be so blind and ignorant in the sacred History to beleeue the Prophets of Israel established or sacred the Kings of Syria For this cause when Dauid was actually established in the Kingdom he was anointed the second time In the next place he brings in the Popes champions vsing these words Rehoboam was deposed by Ahiah the Prophet from his Royall right ouer the tenne Tribes of Israel because his father Salomon had played the Apostata in falling from the Lawe of God This I say also is more then the truth of the sacred historie doth affoard For Ahiah neuer spake to Rehoboam for ought we reade nor brought vnto him any message from the Lord. As for the passage quoted by the L. Cardinall out of Reg. 3. chap. 11. it hath not reference to the time of Rehoboams raigne but rather indeed to Salomons time nor doth it carrie the face of a iudicatory sentence for the Kings deposing but rather of a Propheticall prediction For how could Rehoboam before he was made King be depriued of the Kingdome Last of all but worst of all to alleadge this passage for an example of a iust sentence in matter of deposing a King is to approoue the disloyall treachery of a seruant against his master and the rebellion of Ieroboam branded in Scripture with a marke of perpetuall infamy for his wickednesse and impietie He goes on with an other example of no more truth King Achab was deposed by Elias the Prophet because he imbraced false religion and worshipped false gods False too like the former King Achab lost his Crowne and his life both together The Scripture that speaketh not according to mans fancy but according to the truth doth extend and number the yeeres of Achabs raigne to the time of his death Predictions of a Kings ruine are no sentences of deposition Elias neuer gaue the subiects of Achab absolution from their oath of obedience neuer gaue them the least inckling of any such absolution neuer set vp or placed any other King in Achabs Throne That of the L. Cardinall a little after is no lesse vntrue That King Vzziah was driuen from the conuersation of the people by Azarias the Priest and thereby the administration of his Kingdome was left no longer in his power Not so For when God had smitten Vzziah with leprosie in his forehead he withdrew himselfe or went out into an house apart for feare of infecting such as were whole by his contagious disease The high Priest smote him not with any sentence of deposition or denounced him suspended from the administration of his Kingdome No the dayes of his raigne are numbred in Scripture to the day of his death And whereas the Priest according to the Lawe in the 13. of Leuit. iudged the King to be vncleane he gaue sentence against him not as against a criminall person and thereby within the compasse of deposition but as against a diseased body For the Lawe inflicteth punishments not vpon diseases but vpon crimes Hereupon whereas it is recorded by Iosephus in his Antiquities that Vzziah lead a priuate and in a manner a solitarie life the said author doth not meane that Vzziah was deposed but onely that he disburdened himselfe of care to mannage the publike affaires The example of Mattathias by whome the Iewes were stirred vp to rebell against Antiochus is no better worth For in that example we finde no sentence of deposition but onely an heartning and commotion of a people then grieuously afflicted and oppressed He that makes himselfe the ring-leader of conspiracie against a King doth not forthwith assume the person or take vp the office and charge of a Iudge in forme of lawe and iuridically to depriue a King of his Regall rights and Royall prerogatiues Mattathias was chiefe of that conspiracy not in qualitie of Priest but of cheiftaine or leader in warre and a man the best qualified of all the people Things acted by the suddaine violence of the base vulgar must not stand for lawes nor yet for proofes and arguments of ordinarie power such as the Pope challengeth to himselfe and appropriateth to his triple-Crowne These bee our solide answers wee disclaime the light armour which the L. Cardinall is pleased to furnish vs withall forsooth to recreate himselfe in rebating the points of such weapons as he hath vouchsafed to put into our hands Now it will be worth our labour to beate by his thrusts fetcht from the ordinary mission of the new Testament from leprosie stones and locks of wool A leach no doubt of admirable skil one that for subiecting the Crownes of Kings vnto the Pope is able to extract arguments out of stones yea out of the leprosie and the drie scab onely forsooth because heresie is a kind

Churches vnder a Prince of contrary religion And if things without life or soule are with lesse danger left in an heretikes hands why then shall not an hereticall King with more facilitie and lesse danger keep his Crown his Royall charge his lands his customes his imposts c. For will any man except he bee out of his wits affirme these things to haue any life or soule Or why shall it be counted follie to leaue a sword in the hand of a mad Bedlam Is not a sword also without life and soule For my part I should rather be of this minde that possession of things without reason is more dangerous and pernicious in the hands of an euill Master then the possession of things indued with life and reason For things without life lacke both reason and iudgement how to exempt and free themselues from being instruments in euill and wicked actions from beeing emploied to vngodly and abhominable vses I will not deny that an hereticall Prince is a plague a pernicious and mortal sicknes to the soules of his subiects But a breach made by one mischiefe must not be filled vp with a greater inconuenience An errour must not be shocked and shouldered with disloialtie nor heresie with periurie nor impietie with sedition and armed rebellion against God and the King God who vseth to try and to schoole his Church will neuer forsake his Church nor hath need to protect his Church by any proditorious and prodigious practises of perfidious Christians For hee makes his Church to be like the burning bush In the middest of the fire and flames of persecutions he will prouide that she shall not bee consumed because he standeth in the midst of his Church And suppose there may bee some iust cause for the French to play the rebels against their King yet will it not follow that such rebellious motions are to be raised by the bellowes of the Romane Bishop to whose Pastorall charge and office it is nothing proper to intermeddle in the ciuill affaires of forraine Kingdomes Here is the summe and substance of the L. Cardinals whole discourse touching his pretence of the second inconuenience Which discourse he hath closed with a remarkeable confession to wit that neither by the authoritie of holy Scripture nor by the testimony and verdict of the Primitiue Church there hath beene any full decision of this question In regard whereof he falleth into admiration that Lay-people haue gone so farre in audaciousnesse as to labour that a doubtfull doctrine might for euer passe currant and be taken for a newe article of faith What a shame what a reproach is this how full of scandall for so his Lordship is pleased to cry out This breakes into the seueralls and inclosures of the Church this lets in whole herds of heresies to grase in her green and sweet pastures On the other side without any such Rhetoricall outcries I simply affirme It is a reproach a scandall a crime of rebellion for a subiect hauing his full charge and loade of benefits in the newe spring of his Kings tender age his King-fathers blood yet reeking and vpon the point of an addresse for a double match with Spaine in so honourable an assembly to seek the thraldome of his Kings Crown to play the captious in cauilling about causes of his Kings deposing to giue his former life the lie with shame enough in his olde age and to make himselfe a common by-word vnder the name of a Problematicall Martyr one that offers himselfe to fagot and fire for a point of doctrine but problematically handled that is distrustfully and onely by way of doubtfull and questionable discourse yea for a point of doctrine in which the French as he pretendeth are permitted to thwart and crosse his Holines in iudgement prouided they speake in it as in a point not certaine and necessary but onely doubtfull and probable The third Jnconvenience examined THE third Inconuenience pretended by the L. Cardinall to growe by admitting this Article of the third Estate is flourished in these colours It would breede and bring forth an open and vnauoideable schism against his Holinesse and the rest of the whole Ecclesiasticall bodie For thereby the doctrine long approoued and ratified by the Pope and the rest of the Church should now be taxed and condemned of impious and most detestable consequence yea the Pope and the Church euen in faith and in points of saluation should be reputed and beleeued to be erroniously perswaded Hereupon his Lordship giues himselfe a large scope of the raines to frame his elegant amplifications against schismes and schismatikes Now to mount so high and to flie in such place vpon the wings of amplification for this Inconuenience what is it else but magnifically to report and imagine a mischeife by many degrees greater then the mischeife is The L. Cardinal is in a great error if he make himselfe beleeue that other nations wil make a rent or separation from the communion of the French because the French stand to it tooth and nayle that French Crownes are not liable or obnoxious to Papall deposition howsoeuer there is no schisme that importeth not separation of communion The most illustrious Republike of Venice hath imbarked herselfe in this quarrell against his Holinesse hath played her prize and carried away the weapons with great honour Doth she notwithstanding her triumph in the cause forbeare to participate with all her neighbors in the same Sacraments doth she liue in schisme with all the rest of the Romane Church No such matter When the L. Cardinal himselfe not many yeeres past maintained the Kings cause and stood honourably for the Kings right against the Popes Temporall vsurpations did he then take other Churches to be schismaticall or the rotten members of Antechrist Beleeue it who list I beleeue my Creed Nay his Lordship telleth vs himselfe a little after that his Holinesse giues the French free scope to maintaine either the affirmatiue or negatiue of this question And will his Holinesse hold them schismatikes that dissent from his opinion and iudgement in a subiect or cause esteemed problematicall Farre be it from his Holinesse The King of Spaine reputed the Popes right arme neuer gaue the Pope cause by any act or other declaration to conceiue that hee acknowledged himselfe deposeable by the Pope for heresie or Tyrannie or stupidity But beeing well assured the Pope standeth in greater feare of his arme then he doth of the Popes head and shoulders he neuer troubles his owne head about our question More when the booke of Cardinall Baronius was come forth in which booke the Kingdome of Naples is decryed and publiquely discredited like false money touching the qualitie of a Kingdome and attributed to the King of Spain not as true proprietary thereof but onely as an Estate held in fee of the Romane Church the King made no bones to condemne and to banish the said booke out of his dominions The holy Father was contented