there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n in_o the_o old_a or_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n there_o be_v no_o other_o in_o civil_a judicatories_n there_o can_v be_v no_o other_o find_v in_o this_o world_n and_o to_o end_v this_o argument_n i_o ask_v you_o what_o if_o a_o man_n be_v oppress_v in_o one_o of_o your_o church_n as_o it_o be_v possible_a a_o man_n may_v be_v as_o well_o as_o in_o one_o of_o we_o unless_o you_o have_v the_o power_n of_o piety_n in_o a_o more_o independent_a degree_n yea_o beyond_o all_o flesh_n and_o blood_n in_o any_o juncture_n of_o time_n to_o come_v and_o afterward_o he_o complain_v to_o neighbour_n church_n and_o they_o oppress_v he_o by_o their_o judgement_n what_o other_o remedy_n can_v he_o have_v but_o patience_n and_o to_o appeal_v to_o the_o judge_n of_o quick_a and_o dead_a or_o else_o acquiesce_v to_o the_o sentence_n or_o at_o least_o suffer_v it_o for_o a_o man_n can_v sin_v in_o mere_a sufferance_n for_o actual_a sin_n material_o be_v ever_o more_o a_o action_n of_o the_o will_n or_o a_o voluntary_a omission_n of_o some_o action_n m._n s._n ob._n 30._o p._n 46._o sect_n 2._o what_o power_n be_v intrinsical_v to_o religion_n it_o be_v intrinsical_v to_o the_o church_n but_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n be_v intrinsical_v to_o religion_n for_o a._n s._n say_v that_o the_o parliament_n pretend_v no_o directive_n power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n but_o a_o executive_a power_n only_o viz._n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n ergo_fw-la the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n be_v intrinsical_v to_o the_o church_n a._n s._n answ_n what_o ever_o may_v be_v say_v of_o the_o proposition_n i_o deny_v the_o assumption_n and_o to_o the_o confirmation_n thereof_o i_o answer_v 1._o that_o when_o i_o say_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v power_n in_o religion_n the_o word_n in_o signify_v about_o for_o religion_n signify_v the_o object_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o so_o we_o speak_v ordinary_o as_o when_o we_o say_v a_o rich_a man_n heart_n be_v in_o his_o money_n and_o riches_n so_o in_o here_o signify_v not_o a_o intrinsical_n but_o a_o extrinsecall_a denomination_n as_o when_o i_o say_v the_o sun_n be_v see_v the_o attribute_n in_o this_o affirmative_a proposition_n be_v say_v to_o be_v in_o the_o subject_a not_o by_o any_o intrinsical_a inherence_n or_o denomination_n but_o by_o a_o extrinsecall_a adherence_n attribution_n or_o denomination_n this_o little_a childish_a sophistication_n be_v more_o worthy_a of_o some_o young_a smatterer_n in_o logic_n then_o of_o a_o divine_a or_o any_o conscientious_a man_n it_o be_v not_o possible_a that_o m._n s._n can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o this_o and_o therefore_o in_o this_o dispute_n if_o he_o have_v any_o power_n of_o piety_n i_o desire_v more_o conscience_n and_o sincerity_n in_o he_o i_o may_v also_o say_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v a_o extrinsecall_a power_n in_o the_o church_n if_o the_o word_n in_o there_o signify_v a_o bare_a attribution_n or_o extrinsecall_v denomination_n as_o it_o be_v ordinary_a among_o divine_n philosopher_n and_o common_a people_n and_o yet_o i_o confess_v it_o be_v more_o proper_o say_v about_o religion_n and_o about_o the_o church_n as_o apollonius_n observe_v and_o as_o i_o have_v express_v myself_o but_o then_o there_o shall_v have_v be_v a_o concurrence_n of_o in_o his_o which_o will_v have_v make_v my_o expression_n obscure_a for_o than_o i_o must_v have_v say_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n about_o matter_n of_o religion_n have_v a_o extrinsecall_a power_n as_o also_o about_o the_o church_n as_o this_o professor_n of_o eloquence_n will_v have_v i_o to_o speak_v which_o kind_n of_o expression_n i_o believe_v few_o or_o none_o can_v have_v understand_v if_o the_o independent_a cause_n depend_v upon_o such_o ridiculous_a puntillio_n and_o be_v so_o independent_a upon_o good_a reason_n i_o know_v not_o of_o the_o two_o which_o be_v better_o dependency_n or_o independency_n m._n s._n ob._n 31._o p._n 46._o sect_n 11._o the_o power_n of_o citation_n be_v extrinsecall_v to_o the_o church_n the_o power_n of_o citation_n be_v ecclesiastical_a ergo_fw-la some_o ecclesiastical_a power_n be_v extrinsecall_v to_o the_o church_n a._n s._n i_o distinguish_v the_o word_n power_n of_o citation_n for_o it_o be_v either_o ecclesiastical_a which_o be_v proper_a unto_o the_o church_n viz._n in_o church_n officer_n gather_v together_o in_o a_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n and_o this_o be_v both_o in_o and_o about_o the_o church_n or_o civil_a which_o be_v proper_a to_o the_o christian_a and_o in_o some_o way_n to_o a_o non-christian_a magistrate_n where_o by_o his_o civil_a power_n he_o maintain_v the_o church_n and_o this_o be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o magistrate_n and_o yet_o about_o the_o church_n which_o be_v its_o object_n and_o so_o i_o answer_v to_o this_o silly_a argument_n that_o it_o be_v captious_a and_o ground_v on_o a_o equivocation_n for_o it_o take_v the_o power_n of_o citation_n in_o one_o signification_n in_o the_o major_n viz._n for_o a_o political_a power_n of_o citation_n and_o in_o a_o other_o in_o the_o minor_a viz._n for_o a_o ecclesiastical_a power_n of_o citation_n 2._o or_o if_o it_o be_v take_v in_o both_o for_o a_o ecclesiastical_a power_n than_o the_o major_n be_v false_a for_o christ_n give_v it_o to_o the_o church_n to_o which_o it_o be_v intrinsical_v and_o not_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 3._o or_o if_o it_o be_v take_v in_o both_o for_o a_o civil_a power_n than_o the_o minor_a be_v false_a for_o the_o civil_a power_n of_o citation_n be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n but_o in_o the_o magistrate_n neither_o ever_o give_v christ_n it_n as_o mediator_n either_o to_o the_o church_n or_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n but_o god_n by_o christ_n as_o god_n give_v it_o only_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o the_o piece_n whereof_o the_o press_n as_o m._n s._n say_v have_v be_v late_o deliver_v say_v no_o other_o thing_n than_o i_o say_v if_o m._n s._n his_o diana_n of_o ephesus_n can_v permit_v he_o to_o understand_v it_o or_o he_o do_v not_o willing_o dissemble_v his_o understanding_n of_o it_o m._n s._n if_o a_o classis_fw-la shall_v cite_v or_o excommunicate_v a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n against_o the_o judgement_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o that_o church_n let_v all_o the_o world_n judge_n whether_o that_o be_v not_o a_o act_n of_o externall_n power_n without_o the_o church_n a._n s._n this_o argument_n be_v ridiculous_a 1._o for_o it_o prove_v not_o that_o which_o be_v in_o question_n viz._n that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v a_o ecclesiastical_a or_o intrinsical_a power_n in_o the_o church_n 2._o only_o it_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n have_v a_o authority_n that_o in_o some_o respect_n may_v be_v call_v extrinsecall_n 3._o but_o to_o take_v away_o this_o equivocation_n and_o many_o other_o and_o to_o explain_v more_o full_o this_o question_n note_v again_o 1._o that_o the_o church_n may_v be_v consider_v either_o according_a to_o its_o real_a and_o natural_a or_o according_a to_o its_o moral_a be_v 2._o that_o the_o church_n according_a to_o its_o moral_a be_v i_o speak_v of_o the_o representative_a be_v either_o particular_a of_o one_o parish_n or_o congregation_n or_o more_o general_n as_o a_o classical_a or_o synodall_n assembly_n 3._o note_v that_o the_o particular_a church_n may_v be_v consider_v either_o absolute_o and_o in_o itself_o alone_o without_o any_o reference_n to_o a_o class_n or_o a_o synod_n whereof_o it_o be_v a_o part_n or_o relative_o with_o a_o reference_n to_o the_o more_o general_n church_n viz._n a_o classis_fw-la or_o synod_n whereof_o it_o be_v a_o part_n or_o in_o quality_n and_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o a_o part_n in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o by_o some_o formal_a or_o virtual_a assent_n it_o have_v once_o covenant_v to_o be_v a_o part_n of_o such_o a_o classis_fw-la or_o synod_n and_o stipulate_v to_o send_v its_o commissioner_n to_o such_o classical_a or_o synodall_n meeting_n 1._o if_o then_o we_o consider_v citation_n or_o excommunication_n with_o reference_n to_o the_o church_n either_o more_o general_n or_o particular_a according_a to_o its_o natural_a be_v it_o may_v be_v extrinsecall_v to_o they_o both_o for_o the_o act_n of_o citation_n or_o excommunication_n be_v not_o real_o produce_v or_o pronounce_v according_a to_o its_o natural_a be_v by_o the_o church_n consider_v under_o the_o notion_n of_o its_o real_a be_v but_o by_o one_o man_n as_o all_o wise_a man_n will_v grant_v 2._o if_o they_o be_v take_v moral_o according_a to_o their_o moral_a be_v ground_v on_o some_o covenant_n than_o the_o act_n of_o excommunication_n and_o citation_n be_v not_o extrinsecall_v to_o the_o more_o general_n church_n since_o they_o be_v exercise_v by_o her_o power_n and_o consent_n 3._o if_o they_o be_v consider_v with_o
church_n be_v schismatical_a for_o some_o diversity_n of_o opinion_n for_o that_o belong_v rather_o to_o heresy_n then_o to_o schism_n nor_o 2._o that_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n because_o that_o it_o be_v tolerate_v or_o not_o tolerate_v for_o toleration_n be_v a_o consequent_a of_o schism_n and_o extrinsecall_v to_o it_o the_o true_a reason_n wherefore_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n and_o they_o schismatical_a be_v because_o it_o be_v a_o breach_n of_o charity_n in_o that_o they_o separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yea_o and_o from_o all_o the_o true_a church_n in_o the_o world_n both_o in_o sacramental_a communion_n and_o that_o of_o discipline_n neither_o be_v it_o a_o schism_n because_o that_o it_o be_v a_o separation_n from_o presbyterial_a church_n precise_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o presbyterial_a but_o of_o true_a and_o orthodox_n church_n which_o press_v they_o no_o way_n to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n but_o m._n s._n in_o despite_n of_o all_o reason_n will_v prove_v that_o i_o can_v convict_v the_o independent_o of_o schism_n and_o that_o by_o this_o his_o most_o seriall_a argument_n which_o here_o i_o put_v in_o form_n with_o all_o the_o force_n it_o can_v have_v he_o that_o know_v not_o what_o be_v schism_n can_v convict_v the_o independent_o of_o schism_n but_o a._n s._n know_v not_o what_o be_v schism_n ergo_fw-la a._n s._n can_v convict_v the_o independent_o of_o schism_n the_o major_n be_v certain_a the_o minor_a he_o prove_v thus_o he_o that_o know_v not_o what_o be_v the_o church_n know_v not_o what_o be_v schism_n or_o a_o rent_n of_o the_o church_n for_o rectum_fw-la est_fw-la index_n svi_fw-la et_fw-la obliqui_fw-la and_o entia_fw-la privativa_fw-la cognoscuntur_fw-la ex_fw-la suis_fw-la positivis_fw-la etc._n etc._n but_o a._n s._n know_v not_o what_o be_v the_o church_n for_o he_o say_v we_o know_v not_o wherein_o consist_v its_o essence_n p._n 21._o ergo_fw-la a._n s._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o argument_n that_o the_o minor_a be_v false_a as_o appeareth_z by_o the_o definition_n that_o i_o have_v give_v of_o it_o both_o in_o my_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n in_o my_o answer_n unto_o a_o libel_n of_o c._n c._n and_o he_o retofore_o somewhere_o in_o this_o book_n against_o the_o which_o m._n s._n have_v nothing_o to_o reply_v to_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o minor_a i_o answer_v that_o if_o by_o the_o word_n know_v m._n s._n mean_v a_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o the_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o church_n the_o major_n be_v false_a for_o schism_n be_v not_o a_o rent_v of_o the_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o church_n or_o of_o its_o transcendentall_a or_o metaphysical_a unity_n but_o of_o its_o integrant_fw-la part_n and_o integrant_fw-la unity_n for_o the_o first_o can_v be_v destroy_v so_o long_o as_o it_o be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o schismatical_a church_n may_v have_v their_o transcendent_a unity_n verity_n and_o goodness_n howsoever_o they_o lose_v their_o integrant_fw-la unity_n verity_n and_o goodness_n if_o by_o the_o word_n know_v he_o mean_v any_o knowledge_n of_o the_o church_n either_o confuse_a or_o distinct_a whereby_o we_o may_v know_v the_o church_n by_o her_o external_a cause_n her_o integrant_fw-la part_n her_o accident_n etc._n etc._n the_o minor_a be_v false_a for_o not_o only_a a._n s._n but_o little_a child_n at_o school_n have_v such_o a_o knowledge_n of_o the_o church_n which_o they_o learn_v in_o their_o catechism_n and_o by_o any_o such_o confuse_v or_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o the_o church_n by_o her_o cause_n accident_n or_o effect_n etc._n etc._n we_o may_v confuse_o or_o distinct_o know_v what_o be_v schism_n howbeit_o not_o essential_o as_o for_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o minor_a by_o my_o word_n i_o say_v not_o there_o that_o i_o know_v not_o what_o the_o church_n be_v confuse_o or_o distinct_o by_o her_o cause_n integrant_fw-la part_n her_o accident_n etc._n etc._n but_o that_o we_o know_v not_o distinct_o the_o essence_n of_o thing_n as_o distinguish_v from_o their_o accident_n as_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v if_o he_o look_v in_o my_o book_n for_o there_o in_o that_o page_n 21._o i_o speak_v in_o formal_a term_n of_o that_o which_o be_v essential_a to_o the_o church_n now_o if_o m._n s._n pretend_v to_o any_o such_o profound_a knowledge_n of_o thing_n we_o must_v confess_v he_o to_o be_v a_o other_o epistemon_n doctor_n du_fw-fr molin_n professor_n in_o divinity_n at_o sedan_n hold_v the_o same_o tenet_n in_o his_o thesis_n de_fw-fr summo_fw-la bono_n so_o do_v the_o other_o professor_n of_o divinity_n there_o for_o they_o say_v that_o no_o creature_n neither_o in_o this_o life_n nor_o in_o the_o life_n to_o come_v yea_o not_o the_o very_a angel_n know_v the_o essence_n of_o any_o thing_n and_o from_o thence_o they_o conclude_v that_o we_o shall_v not_o see_v the_o essence_n of_o god_n in_o the_o life_n to_o come_v the_o which_o assertion_n howsoever_o i_o confess_v it_o to_o be_v true_a de_fw-la hominibus_fw-la viatoribus_fw-la yet_o can_v i_o not_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v true_a de_fw-fr angelis_n viatoribus_fw-la and_o much_o less_o de_fw-fr angelis_n aut_fw-la hominibus_fw-la comprehensoribus_fw-la m._n s._n shall_v have_v do_v better_a to_o have_v answer_v my_o reason_n that_o i_o bring_v there_o pag._n 21._o then_o so_o against_o the_o light_n of_o his_o conscience_n to_o scratch_v at_o a_o know_a truth_n neither_o can_v i_o believe_v he_o to_o be_v so_o ignorant_a as_o not_o to_o know_v and_o acknowledge_v the_o truth_n of_o it_o in_o himself_o however_o out_o of_o desire_n of_o contestation_n he_o manifest_v the_o contrary_a but_o m._n s._n to_o the_o end_n he_o seem_v not_o altogether_o impertinent_a prove_v it_o by_o a_o argument_n take_v ab_fw-la exemplo_fw-la or_o by_o a_o imperfect_a induction_n if_o it_o be_v not_o a_o pari_fw-la or_o from_o they_o altogether_o i_o can_v believe_v say_v he_o that_o he_o shall_v perfect_o know_v the_o nature_n of_o darkness_n that_o be_v ignorant_a of_o what_o belong_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o light_n nor_o that_o he_o shall_v know_v what_o a_o schism_n or_o rend_a mean_n that_o know_v not_o what_o belong_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o unity_n and_o entireness_n of_o the_o body_n for_o rectum_fw-la est_fw-la index_n svi_fw-la &_o obliqui_fw-la and_o entia_fw-la privativa_fw-la cognoscuntur_fw-la ex_fw-la suis_fw-la positivis_fw-la a.s._n we_o know_v not_o perfect_o the_o nature_n of_o light_n and_o consequent_o we_o know_v not_o perfect_o the_o nature_n of_o darkness_n if_o to_o know_v perfect_o be_v take_v for_o a_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o its_o essence_n as_o distingnish_v from_o its_o accident_n only_o we_o know_v light_v imperfect_o by_o its_o external_a cause_n by_o its_o effect_n by_o its_o subject_n adjunct_n etc._n etc._n and_o not_o essential_o and_o as_o for_o your_o first_o maxim_n rectum_fw-la est_fw-la index_n svi_fw-la &_o obliqui_fw-la it_o be_v true_a sed_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la distinctum_fw-la aliquem_fw-la conceptum_fw-la svi_fw-la essentialem_fw-la as_o philosopher_n say_v your_o second_o maxim_n whosoever_o you_o imitate_v in_o that_o expression_n be_v improper_a for_o privation_n be_v not_o proper_o entia_fw-la privativa_fw-la but_o entium_fw-la privationes_fw-la not_o essence_n or_o being_n but_o negation_n of_o be_v neither_o be_v darkness_n any_o thing_n but_o a_o negation_n of_o something_o viz._n of_o light_n so_o poverty_n be_v not_o a_o thing_n but_o a_o want_n of_o some_o thing_n viz._n of_o riches_n 2._o but_o i_o will_v pardon_v he_o this_o mistake_n howbeit_o it_o be_v true_a yet_o follow_v it_o not_o that_o if_o i_o know_v a_o privation_n by_o the_o positive_a form_n which_o it_o destroy_v that_o i_o know_v that_o form_n essential_o by_o its_o essence_n and_o in_o itself_o i_o know_v the_o form_n only_o accidental_o or_o by_o its_o extrinsecall_a cause_n or_o by_o its_o existence_n 3._o item_n so_o we_o conceive_v privation_n under_o the_o notion_n of_o negation_n or_o destruction_n of_o the_o existence_n rather_o than_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o thing_n or_o at_o most_o as_o destruction_n of_o the_o existence_n primario_fw-la and_o of_o the_o essence_n secundariò_fw-la if_o they_o be_v destroy_v by_o privation_n neither_o can_v i_o believe_v that_o the_o fire_n burn_v and_o destroy_v immediate_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o man_n or_o any_o part_n thereof_o for_o the_o reasonable_a soul_n be_v spiritual_a and_o can_v be_v burn_v so_o be_v the_o other_o part_n of_o his_o essence_n viz._n his_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la incombustible_a yea_o natural_o incorruptible_a and_o as_o for_o the_o physical_a essence_n of_o the_o whole_a man_n when_o m._n s._n shall_v declare_v wherein_o it_o consist_v i_o shall_v dispute_v with_o he_o but_o silly_a man_n with_o this_o babble_a logic_n know_v he_o not_o that_o accident_n be_v never_o define_v by_o their_o essential_a
i_o maintain_v that_o no_o other_o according_a to_o god_n word_n shall_v be_v tolerate_v the_o independent_o maintain_v that_o they_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v i_o reply_v if_o so_o why_o not_o other_o also_o to_o this_o m._n s._n can_v say_v nothing_o but_o will_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o it_o and_o that_o presbyterianism_n according_a to_o this_o reason_n can_v be_v tolerate_v i_o have_v prove_v the_o contrary_a and_o be_o ready_a to_o grant_v that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sect_n as_o they_o be_v or_o if_o the_o church_n and_o state_n judge_v it_o to_o be_v repugnant_a to_o god_n word_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o so_o have_v they_o not_o do_v yea_o they_o have_v declare_v the_o contrary_a the_o parliament_n in_o their_o covenant_n and_o the_o assembly_n in_o give_v thanks_o to_o the_o scot_n commissioner_n for_o their_o book_n 9_o and_o to_o be_v short_a i_o adjure_v thou_o m._n s._n by_o the_o relic_n of_o thy_o conscience_n and_o pray_v all_o man_n fear_v god_n to_o declare_v whether_o or_o not_o in_o take_v of_o the_o covenant_n and_o in_o swear_v so_o solemn_o according_a to_o their_o power_n to_o put_v down_o popery_n prelacy_n and_o all_o schism_n they_o intend_v to_o tolerate_v they_o all_o as_o m._n s._n maintain_v they_o shall_v do_v m._n s._n ask_v i_o what_o opinion_n donandae_fw-la sint_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la a._n s._n if_o the_o question_n be_v what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v approve_v in_o the_o church_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la my_o answer_n be_v only_o such_o as_o be_v approve_v by_o public_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n if_o the_o question_n be_v what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v then_o either_o you_o mean_v to_o be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o church_n by_o public_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n or_o in_o private_a person_n if_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v none_o but_o such_o as_o god_n word_n tolerate_v and_o the_o church_n judge_v to_o be_v true_a or_o not_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n if_o the_o second_o i_o answer_v that_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o circumstance_n of_o time_n person_n place_n and_o other_o etc._n etc._n 1._o no_o false_a opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v by_o any_o positive_a toleration_n consent_n or_o approbation_n 2._o if_o man_n err_v for_o want_v of_o light_n much_o may_v be_v tolerate_v negatiuè_fw-la i._n e._n in_o not_o proceed_v severe_o against_o they_o till_o they_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v in_o case_n they_o give_v no_o offence_n to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n but_o if_o they_o give_v offence_n they_o must_v be_v punish_v condign_o and_o after_o a_o sufficient_a moral_a conviction_n they_o may_v be_v punish_v condign_o both_o by_o the_o church_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n if_o they_o continue_v and_o become_v pertinacious_a and_o because_o i_o add_v that_o the_o less_o the_o difference_n be_v the_o great_a be_v the_o schism_n m._n s._n pag._n 89._o answer_v 5._o tell_v we_o that_o the_o man_n speak_v of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o schism_n be_v a._n s._n it_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o have_v give_v so_o clear_a a_o definition_n of_o schism_n he_o shall_v so_o doubt_v m._n s._n either_o grant_v my_o definition_n to_o be_v true_a and_o so_o grant_v that_o i_o know_v it_o or_o deny_v it_o and_o i_o shall_v god_n willing_a make_v it_o good_a but_o it_o be_v but_o a_o small_a matter_n what_o i_o know_v or_o know_v not_o whether_o i_o be_v ignorant_a or_o not_o for_o that_o be_v no_o way_n material_a or_o to_o the_o purpose_n the_o less_o i_o know_v and_o the_o more_o ignorant_a i_o be_o the_o more_o easy_a be_v it_o for_o such_o a_o epistemon_n as_o m._n s._n be_v to_o refute_v i_o come_v to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v thou_o good_a m._n s_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o my_o assertion_n be_v this_o viz._n the_o less_o the_o difference_n be_v betwixt_o independency_n and_o the_o true_a discipline_n that_o be_v to_o be_v establish_v whether_o it_o be_v presbyterial_a government_n or_o any_o other_o the_o great_a be_v the_o breach_n of_o charity_n and_o ecclesiastical_a communion_n in_o make_v so_o great_a a_o schism_n and_o separation_n from_o the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n for_o so_o small_a a_o matter_n if_o it_o be_v so_o you_o yourselves_o must_v make_v a_o separation_n among_o yourselves_o for_o every_o trifle_n wherein_o you_o differ_v in_o judgement_n either_o in_o doctrine_n discipline_n or_o holiness_n of_o life_n one_o from_o another_o which_o you_o do_v not_o or_o if_o you_o be_v mind_v to_o do_v so_o you_o must_v make_v all_o man_n in_o your_o church_n of_o your_o mind_n in_o every_o opinion_n you_o have_v or_o else_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o for_o what_o opinion_n you_o be_v mind_v to_o make_v a_o schism_n and_o what_o not_o a._n s._n his_o three_o reason_n god_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n grant_v no_o toleration_n of_o divers_a religion_n or_o discipline_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v grant_v in_o the_o new_a since_o the_o new_a testament_n require_v no_o less_o union_n among_o christian_n than_o the_o old_a among_o jew_n m._n s._n p._n 89._o answ_n 1._o 1._o deny_v the_o consequence_n and_o the_o proof_n bring_v by_o i_o he_o grant_v so_o my_o conclusion_n must_v hold_v only_o he_o say_v it_o be_v ill_o apply_v but_o it_o be_v apply_v by_o way_n of_o argumentation_n whereof_o he_o will_v have_v do_v well_o to_o have_v show_v the_o defect_n m._n s._n pag._n 90._o and_o 91._o answ_n 4._o yet_o do_v it_o not_o require_v that_o he_o that_o be_v strong_a shall_v cudgel_v he_o that_o be_v weak_a a._n s._n god_n be_v thank_v you_o need_v not_o much_o complain_v of_o any_o cudgel_n that_o you_o have_v yet_o receive_v since_o this_o parliament_n neither_o need_v you_o to_o fear_v it_o in_o time_n to_o come_v if_o you_o force_v not_o a_o new_a religion_n upon_o the_o kingdom_n against_o their_o will_n or_o if_o you_o will_v submit_v unto_o lawful_a authority_n and_o not_o make_v your_o inconsiderable_a number_n the_o judge_n of_o all_o this_o business_n against_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o what_o you_o say_v in_o your_o second_o chapter_n we_o have_v show_v how_o absurd_a it_o be_v and_o how_o horrible_a impiety_n will_v follow_v upon_o your_o tenet_n m._n s._n p._n 89._o in_o his_o 1._o and_o 2._o answer_n to_o the_o consequence_n be_v that_o it_o follow_v not_o dare_v you_o say_v in_o matter_n of_o knowledge_n authority_n and_o power_n ero_n similis_fw-la altissimo_fw-la remember_v the_o fall_n of_o the_o son_n of_o the_o morning_n a._n s._n we_o pretend_v not_o to_o be_v like_a unto_o god_n in_o these_o consideration_n in_o go_v against_o the_o command_n as_o lucifer_n but_o in_o holiness_n as_o he_o be_v holy_a which_o can_v be_v without_o obedience_n as_o in_o the_o good_a angel_n now_o you_o confess_v yourselves_o that_o god_n have_v only_o command_v one_o discipline_n and_o government_n in_o the_o church_n under_o the_o new_a testament_n how_o be_v we_o then_o lucifer_n in_o desire_v this_o only_a and_o no_o other_o to_o be_v admit_v of_o in_o the_o church_n how_o do_v you_o then_o plead_v for_o the_o introduction_n of_o any_o other_o than_o the_o true_a discipline_n if_o baal_n be_v god_n serve_v he_o but_o if_o jehovah_n be_v god_n serve_v he_o so_o if_o independency_n be_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n let_v it_o be_v admit_v and_o no_o other_o and_o so_o of_o presbyterial_a and_o all_o other_o government_n we_o impose_v none_o but_o desire_v that_o the_o true_a discipline_n may_v be_v seek_v for_o and_o afterward_o impose_v by_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o church_n by_o each_o of_o they_o according_a to_o their_o vocation_n m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n p._n 89._o be_v that_o he_o deny_v the_o antecedent_n of_o my_o argument_n or_o rather_o distinguish_v it_o viz._n that_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n it_o be_v not_o grant_v in_o terminis_fw-la but_o in_o sensu_fw-la or_o by_o consequence_n for_o this_o must_v be_v the_o other_o part_n of_o his_o distinction_n because_o he_o prohibit_v all_o manner_n of_o violence_n and_o oppression_n and_o charge_v the_o rich_a not_o to_o enslave_v the_o poor_a a._n s._n reply_n 1._o this_o be_v no_o law_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n or_o of_o toleration_n of_o heresy_n schism_n or_o divers_a discipline_n in_o the_o church_n but_o a_o moral_a law_n and_o a_o part_n of_o the_o six_o commandment_n in_o not_o offer_v violence_n to_o the_o weak_a and_o of_o the_o eight_o thou_o shall_v not_o steal_v forbid_v all_o sort_n of_o extortion_n against_o the_o poor_a now_o you_o be_v not_o poor_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o man_n either_o of_o the_o parliament_n or_o synod_n about_o to_o take_v your_o purse_n m._n s._n yet_o the_o equity_n and_o spirit_n of_o such_o law_n extend_v to_o spirituall_n a._n
heretical_a and_o go_v to_o the_o devil_n but_o i_o answer_v 1._o the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o the_o externall_n coactive_a power_n that_o a._n s._n grant_v unto_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v only_o to_o repress_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n after_o that_o they_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v by_o the_o church_n in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n or_o by_o other_o in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n when_o the_o church_n be_v negligent_a in_o her_o duty_n 2._o neither_o do_v m._n s._n his_o confirmation_n or_o case_n of_o conscience_n conclude_v any_o thing_n against_o that_o which_o a._n s._n say_v and_o as_o for_o his_o supposition_n either_o that_o conscience_n whereof_o he_o speak_v be_v right_a or_o erroneous_a if_o it_o be_v right_a the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v not_o press_v it_o against_o its_o light_n or_o if_o he_o happen_v to_o do_v so_o it_o be_v not_o by_o power_n but_o by_o abuse_n of_o power_n and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n he_o who_o have_v his_o conscience_n well_o inform_v must_v resolve_v himself_o to_o be_v quiet_a in_o case_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n oblige_v he_o not_o to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o it_o but_o if_o such_o a_o man_n any_o other_o or_o other_o with_o he_o will_v rise_v up_o within_o the_o kingdom_n or_o come_v from_o foreign_a country_n and_o urge_v their_o religion_n upon_o the_o state_n and_o establish_v it_o without_o permission_n of_o the_o magistrate_n or_o against_o his_o law_n than_o their_o conscience_n can_v be_v right_o for_o wherefore_o shall_v the_o king_n parliament_z and_o state_n be_v rather_o bind_v to_o admit_v such_o man_n religion_n without_o sufficient_a conviction_n than_o they_o to_o admit_v his_o religion_n and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n so_o long_o as_o such_o person_n as_o urge_v their_o religion_n upon_o he_o convict_v not_o sufficient_o his_o conscience_n may_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n punish_v they_o severe_o yea_o with_o good_a conscience_n cut_v off_o their_o head_n if_o such_o a_o man_n conscience_n be_v erroneous_a the_o civil_a magistrate_n do_v he_o no_o wrong_n to_o endeavour_v that_o he_o who_o have_v it_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v and_o if_o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n he_o will_v not_o be_v quiet_a especial_o when_o he_o be_v not_o oblige_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o his_o pretend_a conscience_n but_o will_v still_o trouble_v both_o church_n and_o state_n wherefore_o on_o god_n name_n shall_v he_o not_o be_v punish_v 2._o be_v it_o not_o better_o that_o such_o a_o man_n shall_v perish_v then_o that_o he_o shall_v make_v thousand_o to_o perish_v 3._o ravalliack_n in_o france_n and_o the_o monk_n and_o friar_n that_o kill_v king_n pretend_v evermore_o conscience_n as_o the_o independent_o do_v and_o yet_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n put_v they_o to_o death_n 4._o if_o any_o man_n conscience_n which_o god_n forbid_v shall_v dictate_v he_o to_o kill_v the_o king_n and_o blow_v up_o the_o parliament_n shall_v such_o a_o man_n be_v tolerate_v under_o pretext_n of_o his_o tender_a conscience_n 5._o be_v it_o not_o a_o sin_n to_o have_v a_o erroneous_a conscience_n and_o be_v not_o he_o that_o have_v it_o bind_v to_o reform_v it_o and_o to_o suffer_v for_o it_o in_o case_n he_o reform_v it_o not_o when_o he_o have_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o do_v it_o 6._o but_o must_v every_o man_n that_o do_v ill_a be_v present_o believe_v when_o he_o say_v that_o he_o have_v such_o a_o conscience_n 7._o all_o this_o long_a sermon_n of_o m._n s._n prove_v not_o that_o the_o magistrate_n direct_o and_o per_fw-la se_fw-la but_o rather_o that_o the_o man_n himself_o harden_v his_o own_o conscience_n for_o there_o be_v no_o create_a power_n that_o direct_o per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o physical_o can_v work_v upon_o a_o man_n conscience_n it_o can_v only_o move_v it_o moral_o in_o propound_v of_o object_n to_o it_o or_o in_o reason_v and_o yet_o every_o true_a christian_a have_v a_o sufficient_a power_n to_o resist_v such_o motion_n which_o be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v he_o in-excusable_a 8._o neither_o can_v his_o erroneous_a conscience_n excuse_v he_o unless_o that_o its_o error_n be_v invincible_a antecedent_n and_o he_o no_o way_n the_o cause_n of_o it_o but_o if_o it_o be_v vincible_a concomitant_a or_o subsequent_a and_o he_o himself_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o than_o it_o excuse_v he_o not_o but_o be_v a_o sin_n and_o aggravate_v the_o sin_n that_o proceed_v of_o it_o at_o least_o extensiuè_a if_o not_o intensiuè_v for_o in_o such_o a_o case_n it_o be_v not_o his_o erroneous_a conscience_n that_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o sinful_a action_n of_o his_o will_n but_o his_o sinful_a will_n that_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o his_o erroneous_a conscience_n 9_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n threaten_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o direct_o make_v not_o his_o conscience_n erroneous_a but_o find_v it_o such_o 10._o neither_o be_v it_o the_o cause_n that_o he_o go_v against_o it_o for_o whether_o you_o consider_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n intention_n his_o judgement_n or_o the_o execution_n of_o it_o in_o such_o a_o case_n they_o cause_v no_o ill_a but_o good_a for_o his_o intention_n be_v only_o that_o they_o be_v gain_v to_o christ_n and_o that_o they_o seduce_v not_o other_o his_o judgement_n condemn_v only_o their_o opinion_n and_o command_v a_o punishment_n answerable_a to_o their_o sin_n whereby_o only_o they_o be_v hinder_v to_o continue_v in_o their_o heresy_n or_o schism_n or_o to_o seduce_v other_o no_o more_o do_v the_o execution_n of_o his_o judgement_n ergo._n 11._o and_o i_o pray_v this_o new_a casuist_n to_o tell_v i_o whether_o in_o some_o case_n it_o be_v not_o a_o lesser_a sin_n for_o a_o man_n to_o go_v against_o his_o erroneous_a conscience_n then_o to_o follow_v its_o dictate_v whether_o it_o be_v not_o better_o for_o he_o to_o sit_v at_o home_n against_o the_o dictate_v of_o his_o conscience_n then_o to_o go_v to_o a_o pagan_a church_n and_o there_o to_o adore_v a_o crocodile_n or_o a_o toad_n according_a to_o the_o dictate_v of_o it_o so_o we_o see_v how_o licentious_a and_o detestable_a this_o conscience_n be_v that_o independent_o plead_v so_o much_o for_o that_o think_v that_o it_o can_v sufficient_o enjoy_v its_o liberty_n unless_o that_o all_o schismatic_n heretic_n jew_n mahometans_n and_o idolater_n have_v a_o free_a liberty_n of_o their_o erroneous_a conscience_n to_o adore_v a_o thousand_o god_n yea_o a_o thousand_o devil_n a_o jupiter_n a_o bacchus_n a_o venus_n a_o blind_a fortuna_fw-la and_o to_o preach_v such_o abomination_n and_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n be_v ever_o curtale_v or_o rather_o altogether_o take_v away_o in_o matter_n in_o religion_n i_o will_v not_o call_v this_o a_o madness_n but_o i_o be_o well_o assure_v that_o many_o be_v recommend_v to_o the_o church_n prayer_n that_o be_v not_o half_a so_o sick_a either_o in_o soul_n or_o body_n as_o these_o man_n be_v in_o their_o conscience_n wherefore_o all_o that_o i_o have_v more_o to_o say_v unto_o they_o shall_v be_v only_o this_o the_o lord_n have_v mercy_n upon_o they_o christian_n reader_n have_v be_v desire_v by_o some_o friend_n to_o give_v a_o short_a discourse_n of_o the_o independent_a government_n i_o be_o resolve_v to_o present_v thou_o with_o this_o follow_a epitome_n which_o sundry_a have_v oftentimes_o require_v of_o i_o the_o independent_a church_n be_v so_o call_v because_o that_o no_o particular_a congregation_n among_o they_o how_o small_a how_o heretical_a and_o vicious_a soever_o it_o be_v will_v depend_v upon_o or_o submit_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o other_o church_n yea_o not_o to_o that_o of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n how_o orthodox_n and_o holy_a and_o how_o true_a and_o just_a soever_o their_o judgement_n be_v they_o define_v it_o coetus_fw-la fidelium_fw-la a_o company_n of_o believer_n meet_v in_o one_o place_n every_o lord_n day_n for_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o holy_a ordinance_n of_o god_n to_o public_a edification_n so_o according_a to_o this_o definition_n neither_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o we_o believe_v in_o the_o creed_n nor_o any_o nationall_n church_n can_v be_v a_o true_a church_n since_o they_o can_v meet_v together_o every_o lord_n day_n in_o one_o place_n in_o the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o the_o church_n i_o see_v no_o great_a difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o they_o save_v only_o this_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o necessary_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n and_o of_o every_o member_n thereof_o that_o they_o all_o join_v in_o a_o particular_a church-covenant_n as_o they_o call_v it_o different_a from_o that_o of_o grace_n reveal_v in_o scripture_n wherein_o they_o all_o swear_v to_o live_v in_o the_o faith_n and_o in_o subjection_n to_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n cleave_v one_o to_o another_o as_o member_n
a.s._n answ_n the_o parliament_n have_v power_n and_o a_o call_n to_o judge_n politicè_fw-la about_o the_o church_n and_o church_n matter_n what_o decision_n and_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n assembly_n they_o will_v approve_v or_o disapprove_v what_o religion_n doctrine_n and_o discipline_n they_o will_v admit_v or_o tolerate_v in_o the_o state_n but_o they_o have_v no_o call_n or_o directive_n authoritative_a power_n in_o the_o church_n to_o judge_v this_o or_o that_o to_o be_v the_o true_a doctrine_n or_o discipline_n this_o belong_v to_o church-officer_n yet_o they_o have_v a_o private_a judgement_n of_o discretion_n about_o such_o matter_n as_o other_o christian_n and_o a_o public_a political_a authoritative_a judgement_n and_o a_o coactive_a political_a power_n to_o compel_v the_o subject_n to_o admit_v in_o the_o state_n such_o or_o such_o a_o true_a doctrine_n or_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n howbeit_o not_o to_o believe_v it_o or_o to_o love_n or_o approve_v it_o in_o their_o judgement_n or_o will_n m._n s._n ob._n 14._o ask_v whether_o it_o be_v reasonable_a that_o the_o apologist_n matter_n yet_o remain_v undecided_a and_o unjudge_v between_o they_o and_o their_o brethren_n shall_v suffer_v as_o man_n convict_v only_o because_o their_o adversary_n and_o accuser_n the_o brethren_n you_o know_v of_o be_v more_o in_o number_n than_o they_o and_o will_v needs_o continue_v adversary_n to_o they_o a.s._n answ_n 1._o though_o you_o vaunt_v evermore_o of_o your_o suffering_n we_o have_v never_o see_v they_o 2._o these_o who_o you_o unjust_o call_v your_o adversary_n have_v suffer_v much_o more_o than_o you_o and_o yet_o publish_v it_o not_o unto_o the_o world_n 3._o it_o be_v absolute_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v 4._o and_o yet_o much_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v as_o man_n convict_v 5._o and_o yet_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v because_o your_o adversary_n be_v more_o in_o number_n and_o 6._o false_a of_o all_o that_o only_o you_o suffer_v for_o that_o 7._o man_n that_o suffer_v be_v not_o honour_v as_o you_o be_v neither_o receive_v they_o so_o great_a favour_n present_n and_o benefice_n as_o you_o do_v 8._o it_o be_v a_o great_a sufferance_n to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n to_o be_v calumniate_v and_o upbraid_v by_o so_o contemptible_a a_o number_n of_o minister_n and_o to_o see_v so_o many_o libel_n print_v against_o she_o by_o those_o of_o your_o sect._n 9_o it_o be_v false_a that_o you_o be_v not_o condemn_v for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o all_o other_o protestant_a church_n in_o approve_v the_o presbyterian_a government_n as_o we_o say_v heretofore_o can_v not_o but_o disprove_v and_o condemn_v you_o all_o who_o condemn_v it_o 10._o neither_o do_v all_o this_o prove_v a_o directive_n ecclesiastical_a power_n belong_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 11._o you_o have_v no_o adversary_n here_o but_o your_o false_a opinion_n 12._o neither_o be_v your_o brethren_n adversary_n to_o you_o but_o to_o your_o erronion_n opinion_n which_o be_v a_o thousand_o time_n more_o your_o adversary_n than_o they_o 13._o and_o both_o you_o and_o any_o of_o we_o must_v legal_o suffer_v according_a to_o our_o demerit_n when_o we_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v and_o condemn_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la as_o you_o be_v already_o in_o very_a many_o thing_n for_o this_o be_v the_o way_n of_o all_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n neither_o can_v independent_o change_v it_o 15._o ibid._n m.s._n reason_v thus_o if_o our_o saviour_n testimony_n concern_v himself_o in_o his_o own_o cause_n be_v not_o valid_a how_o much_o less_o the_o testimony_n of_o any_o other_o yea_o of_o a_o thousand_o in_o any_o matter_n that_o concern_v themselves_o and_o consequent_o that_o of_o our_o brethren_n in_o the_o synod_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a joh._n 5.31_o if_o i_o bear_v witness_n of_o myself_o my_o witness_n be_v not_o true_a i._n e._n it_o be_v not_o in_o a_o formal_a and_o legal_a interpretation_n true_a but_o you_o may_v reasonable_o wave_v it_o a.s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o either_o christ_n here_o speak_v of_o his_o own_o testimony_n speak_v of_o himself_o according_a to_o his_o divine_a to_o his_o humane_a or_o according_a to_o both_o his_o nature_n item_n 2._o either_o he_o speak_v of_o its_o validity_n in_o itself_o or_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o jew_n to_o who_o he_o do_v speak_v and_o who_o shall_v have_v admit_v of_o it_o item_n 3._o either_o of_o his_o public_a and_o judicial_a or_o of_o his_o private_a testimony_n 1._o if_o in_o the_o first_o proposition_n we_o take_v our_o saviour_n according_a to_o his_o divine_a nature_n or_o according_a to_o both_o viz._n as_o mediator_n the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o there_o christ_n speak_v not_o of_o himself_o according_a to_o his_o divine_a nature_n or_o to_o both_o or_o as_o mediator_n for_o under_o that_o notion_n he_o be_v judge_n of_o quick_a and_o dead_a and_o christ_n say_v joh._n 8.14_o that_o if_o he_o testify_v of_o himself_o his_o testimony_n be_v true_a 2._o or_o if_o he_o speak_v of_o himself_o under_o this_o notion_n than_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o his_o testimony_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o but_o as_o it_o be_v in_o respect_n of_o they_o who_o receive_v it_o not_o viz_o the_o jew_n and_o unbeliever_n who_o receive_v it_o not_o as_o the_o testimony_n of_o god_n or_o of_o the_o mediator_n however_o it_o be_v such_o for_o they_o know_v he_o not_o joh._n 8.15.19_o but_o they_o judge_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n neither_o know_v they_o he_o nor_o his_o father_n and_o if_o they_o have_v know_v the_o king_n of_o glory_n they_o have_v never_o crucify_v he_o and_o then_o the_o proposition_n be_v false_a for_o it_o follow_v not_o that_o if_o christ_n testimony_n who_o be_v god_n be_v not_o acknowledge_v as_o valid_a by_o those_o who_o know_v it_o not_o ergo_fw-la the_o testimony_n of_o a_o presbytery_n or_o synod_n shall_v not_o be_v acknowledge_v by_o such_o as_o be_v subject_a thereunto_o and_o know_v it_o for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n two_o or_o three_o idle_a fellow_n shall_v not_o believe_v the_o testimony_n of_o your_o presbytery_n or_o assembly_n 3._o i_o retort_v then_o the_o argument_n if_o christ_n testimony_n be_v not_o legal_o valid_a in_o his_o own_o cause_n ergo_fw-la you_o in_o your_o presbytery_n and_o assembly_n be_v not_o legal_o true_a or_o valid_a in_o your_o own_o cause_n when_o you_o judge_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o and_o discipline_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o 4._o if_o christ_n be_v here_o take_v according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n then_o either_o he_o be_v take_v according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o without_o sin_n or_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o pharise_n estimation_n if_o in_o the_o first_o way_n the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o there_o the_o pharise_n take_v christ_n for_o a_o sinful_a man_n and_o who_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o the_o testimony_n of_o a_o man_n in_o the_o state_n of_o integrity_n be_v valid_a 5._o if_o it_o be_v take_v in_o the_o second_o way_n i_o deny_v the_o first_o proposition_n for_o the_o testimony_n of_o judge_n in_o judge_v according_a to_o law_n in_o thing_n that_o concern_v not_o so_o much_o their_o person_n as_o the_o society_n that_o they_o represent_v in_o judgement_n as_o the_o assembly_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judge_n do_v be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o the_o testimony_n of_o any_o particular_a man_n 6._o and_o if_o this_o maxim_n of_o the_o independent_o hold_v the_o judgement_n of_o no_o civil_a magistrate_n yea_o not_o of_o the_o parliament_n itself_o shâ—ll_v hold_v if_o any_o of_o they_o or_o any_o delinquent_n take_v the_o parliament_n to_o party_n in_o any_o business_n the_o parliament_n will_v do_v well_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o such_o independent_a maxim_n 7._o but_o this_o be_v the_o arminian_o way_n at_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v decline_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o synod_n and_o he_o be_v a_o arminian_n who_o propound_v this_o argument_n who_o of_o late_o be_v become_v a_o independent_a i_o â—eare_z they_o mean_v to_o unite_v the_o two_o sect_n in_o one_o 8._o christ_n be_v not_o here_o speak_v of_o himself_o how_o far_o forth_o his_o testimony_n and_o judgement_n may_v hold_v in_o a_o judicial_a way_n whereof_o we_o speak_v here_o but_o in_o a_o private_a way_n for_o this_o action_n be_v not_o judicial_a but_o a_o particular_a discourse_n 9_o neither_o be_v the_o business_n now_o in_o hand_n at_o the_o synod_n of_o particular_a but_o of_o public_a concernment_n viz._n the_o church_n wherein_o the_o church_n that_o be_v judge_n can_v be_v take_v to_o party_n however_o you_o call_v she_o a_o crowd_n wherein_o many_o particular_a person_n be_v concern_v m._n s._n ob._n 16._o p._n 37._o
§_o 2._o they_o who_o be_v party_n can_v be_v their_o party_n judge_v since_o they_o be_v all_o equal_n et_fw-fr par_fw-fr in_fw-la parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la and_o to_o be_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n in_o one_o cause_n can_v be_v grant_v to_o those_o that_o have_v no_o authoritative_a power_n one_o over_o another_o as_o a.s._n himself_o affirm_v but_o the_o assembly_n be_v those_o who_o be_v party_n to_o the_o independent_o and_o nothing_o else_o but_o their_o equal_n ergo_fw-la the_o assembly_n can_v be_v their_o judge_n a._n s._n ans_fw-fr a_o party_n can_v judge_v a_o party_n i_o distinguish_v for_o either_o this_o party_n be_v only_o pretend_v and_o so_o i_o deny_v the_o major_a or_o real_a and_o then_o this_o real_a party_n either_o compear_v in_o some_o personal_a or_o real_a action_n of_o his_o own_o alone_a or_o in_o some_o cause_n of_o public_a concernment_n if_o he_o compeare_v under_o the_o first_o notion_n the_o major_n be_v true_a but_o the_o minor_a be_v false_a for_o the_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n compeare_v not_o in_o the_o assembly_n for_o any_o personal_a or_o real_a action_n of_o their_o own_o alone_a or_o of_o particular_a concernment_n if_o he_o compear_v under_o the_o second_o notion_n the_o major_n be_v false_a unless_o you_o have_v sufficient_a cause_n to_o forsake_v he_o for_o judge_n 2._o item_n if_o it_o be_v a_o party_n that_o have_v no_o power_n over_o the_o party_n in_o such_o a_o cause_n the_o major_n be_v true_a but_o the_o minor_a be_v false_a for_o the_o assembly_n in_o matter_n of_o discipline_n have_v power_n over_o all_o the_o independent_o in_o england_n viz._n to_o condemn_v their_o tenet_n according_a to_o god_n word_n if_o it_o be_v a_o party_n that_o have_v power_n over_o the_o party_n in_o such_o a_o cause_n as_o a_o judge_n the_o major_n be_v false_a and_o so_o it_o be_v reason_v and_o this_o your_o tenet_n judge_v and_o condemn_v in_o the_o arminian_o as_o i_o hope_v it_o shall_v be_v in_o this_o arminian_n and_o the_o independent_o in_o this_o assembly_n 3._o it_o be_v false_a that_o party_n be_v equal_n when_o the_o one_o have_v power_n over_o another_o or_o when_o the_o one_o that_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v party_n judge_v not_o in_o a_o matter_n concern_v himself_o but_o the_o public_a 4._o for_o if_o that_o shall_v hold_v the_o party_n of_o the_o independent_a church_n may_v reject_v the_o judgement_n of_o whole_a church_n yea_o of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n pretend_v they_o to_o be_v party_n 5._o yea_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n they_o may_v reject_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o parliament_n 6._o this_o argument_n prove_v not_o the_o question_n viz._n that_o the_o parliament_n have_v a_o intrinsical_n directive_n power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n or_o a_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o judge_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n 7._o it_o be_v a_o very_a proud_a and_o independent_a expression_n of_o you_o when_o you_o say_v that_o the_o synod_n and_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o christian_a world_n be_v but_o the_o apologist_n equal_v you_o will_v find_v they_o i_o hope_v in_o god_n their_o judge_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v put_v in_o authority_n by_o the_o parliament_n to_o represent_v the_o whole_a church_n of_o england_n which_o be_v more_o than_o such_o a_o inconsiderable_a number_n of_o independent_o m._n s._n ob._n 17._o p._n 37._o §_o 2._o if_o all_o church_n be_v equal_a as_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v or_o for_o any_o thing_n a.s._n allege_v to_o the_o contrary_a they_o be_v there_o can_v be_v neither_o superior_n nor_o inferior_n and_o consequent_o no_o obedience_n or_o disobedience_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a a._n s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o this_o prove_v not_o that_o the_o parliament_n have_v any_o intrinsical_a power_n in_o the_o church_n much_o less_o any_o directive_n intrinsical_v power_n 2._o only_o it_o pretend_v to_o prove_v a_o independent_a power_n in_o the_o church_n which_o take_v away_o their_o directive_n power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o the_o parliament_n for_o if_o their_o church_n depend_v not_o of_o any_o superior_a how_o can_v they_o depend_v upon_o the_o parliament_n or_o any_o other_o civil_a magistrate_n i_o deny_v the_o assumption_n viz._n that_o all_o church_n be_v equal_a but_o he_o prove_v it_o because_o they_o be_v such_o for_o aught_o he_o know_v or_o that_o a._n s._n allege_v to_o the_o contrary_n answ_n 1._o this_o be_v but_o to_o confess_v your_o ignorance_n 2._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o it_o may_v be_v otherwise_o howbeit_o he_o be_v ignorant_a of_o it_o 3._o neither_o be_v his_o knowledge_n the_o measure_n of_o divine_a or_o natural_a verity_n but_o to_o be_v measure_v by_o they_o 4._o howbeit_o a._n s._n shall_v say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a yet_o the_o contrary_n may_v be_v for_o a._n s._n have_v not_o say_v all_o thing_n that_o may_v be_v say_v upon_o this_o or_o any_o other_o subject_n and_o there_o be_v thousand_o who_o can_v say_v more_o and_o better_a than_o he_o yea_o many_o have_v say_v more_o and_o better_a 5._o it_o be_v a_o untruth_n also_o that_o he_o have_v say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a for_o he_o may_v have_v see_v something_o to_o the_o contrary_a in_o his_o observation_n and_o in_o his_o answer_n to_o a_o libel_n and_o if_o that_o be_v not_o enough_o he_o have_v more_o in_o this_o book_n 6._o when_o he_o say_v that_o a._n s._n argue_v so_o it_o be_v a_o untruth_n for_o neither_o have_v a._n s._n the_o assumption_n nor_o the_o conclusion_n in_o the_o 38._o page_n of_o his_o observation_n cite_v by_o he_o for_o he_o destroy_v the_o consequent_a to_o destroy_v the_o antecedent_n whereas_o m._n s._n pose_v the_o antecedent_n to_o infer_v the_o consequent_a m._n s._n ob._n 18._o if_o justice_n consist_v not_o in_o a_o arithmetical_a but_o geometrical_a proportion_n then_o be_v there_o no_o reason_n that_o peremptoriousnesse_n of_o vote_n how_o arithmetical_o soever_o privilege_v but_o weight_n and_o worth_n of_o argument_n shall_v carry_v it_o against_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o a._n s._n answ_o this_o argument_n with_o its_o peremptorious_a censure_n of_o a_o pretend_a peremptoriousnesse_n of_o vote_n arithmetical_o privilege_v seem_v to_o censure_v the_o parliament_n which_o ordain_v that_o that_o shall_v be_v offer_v unto_o they_o as_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o assembly_n which_o the_o major_a part_n assent_v unto_o i_o e._n that_o that_o be_v judge_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n 2._o if_o by_o peremptoriousnesse_n of_o vote_n he_o mean_v plurality_n of_o vote_n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n or_o connexion_n for_o when_o thing_n be_v full_o balance_v by_o reason_n in_o any_o assembly_n it_o be_v more_o probable_a that_o that_o be_v most_o true_a that_o be_v carry_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n and_o that_o geometrical_a proportion_n wherein_o consist_v distributive_a justice_n may_v be_v more_o easy_o find_v out_o by_o plurarity_n of_o vote_n then_o by_o few_o vote_n otherwise_o it_o be_v a_o folly_n to_o vote_n any_o thing_n for_o wherefore_o vote_v they_o any_o thing_n in_o any_o assembly_n but_o that_o it_o may_v be_v judge_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n 3._o and_o the_o apostle_n will_v that_o the_o spirit_n of_o prophet_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o prophet_n neither_o be_v it_o credible_a that_o the_o major_a part_n will_v submit_v unto_o the_o lesser_a part_n 4._o and_o we_o will_v willing_o know_v of_o you_o sir_n how_o thing_n be_v ordinary_o carry_v in_o your_o assembly_n whether_o thing_n be_v debate_v and_o every_o man_n reason_n hear_v the_o major_a part_n submit_v to_o the_o lesser_a or_o the_o lesser_a to_o the_o major_a or_o whether_o that_o be_v think_v truth_n that_o the_o major_a or_o minor_a part_n vote_v 5._o if_o by_o peremptoriousnesse_n of_o vote_n you_o mean_v a_o bold_a and_o imperious_a carry_v of_o thing_n by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n without_o reason_n i_o shall_v ready_o grant_v you_o such_o assembly_n be_v unlawful_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o establish_a among_o we_o neither_o have_v the_o parliament_n establish_v any_o such_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n here_o neither_o do_v the_o assembly_n arrogate_v unto_o itself_o any_o such_o unjust_a power_n if_o this_o argument_n hold_v it_o shall_v beat_v down_o as_o well_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o all_o civil_a judicatories_n wherein_o thing_n be_v carry_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n as_o those_o of_o the_o assembly_n wherefore_o all_o the_o civil_a power_n in_o the_o world_n will_v do_v well_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o this_o peremptorious_a censure_n of_o they_o all_o for_o if_o it_o stand_v they_o must_v fall_v and_o do_v homage_n to_o the_o independent_a church_n beside_o this_o i_o know_v not_o what_o he_o mean_v by_o arithmetical_o
better_o their_o cause_n fave_v only_o that_o it_o be_v naught_o it_o be_v true_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o man_n of_o so_o great_a ability_n shall_v be_v able_a to_o say_v no_o more_o for_o themselves_o 8._o and_o since_o you_o m.s._n and_o they_o be_v so_o able_a will_v you_o or_o they_o i_o pray_v condescend_v to_o some_o private_a meeting_n with_o some_o of_o the_o presbyterian_o that_o it_o may_v be_v see_v who_o have_v the_o best_a cause_n and_o whether_o or_o no_o all_o your_o deep_a learning_n and_o great_a skill_n in_o sophistication_n wherein_o you_o so_o excel_v can_v set_v any_o probable_a show_n or_o face_n of_o reason_n upon_o your_o opinion_n which_o you_o hold_v to_o be_v no_o less_o than_o god_n reveal_v word_n m._n s._n answer_v 3._o better_o a_o door_n open_v to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n yea_o and_o to_o many_o other_o inconvenience_n great_a than_o this_o then_o that_o the_o guilt_n of_o any_o persecution_n or_o of_o any_o evil_a entreat_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o people_n of_o god_n shall_v cleave_v unto_o the_o people_n or_o state_n a._n s._n this_o m._n s._n suppose_v 1._o that_o the_o independent_o be_v the_o saint_n 2._o and_o that_o in_o case_n they_o be_v not_o tolerate_v in_o establish_v public_o their_o church_n government_n and_o other_o tenet_n in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o parliament_n both_o in_o the_o church_n and_o state_n that_o it_o be_v no_o less_o than_o the_o guilt_n of_o persecution_n against_o the_o saint_n draw_v upon_o the_o state_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o world_n and_o worse_o shall_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n then_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o chastise_v in_o case_n they_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o either_o church_n or_o state_n i_o answer_v that_o all_o that_o m._n s._n here_o say_v be_v damnable_a untruth_n and_o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o independent_o of_o this_o world_n be_v in_o america_n and_o that_o ten_o thousand_o time_n worse_o shall_v befall_v they_o then_o that_o the_o good_a name_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v dishonour_v by_o filthy_a heresy_n and_o if_o the_o independent_o have_v any_o fear_n of_o god_n before_o their_o eye_n and_o love_v not_o themselves_o better_a a_o great_a deal_n then_o god_n glory_n they_o will_v rather_o desire_v with_o moses_n to_o be_v scrape_v out_o of_o the_o book_n of_o life_n or_o with_o paul_n to_o be_v separate_v from_o christ_n then_o that_o christ_n church_n shall_v so_o suffer_v or_o god_n bless_a name_n be_v so_o dishonour_v a._n s._n 2._o reason_n it_o be_v dangerous_a for_o the_o state_n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n and_o division_n betwixt_o all_o person_n of_o whatsoever_o relation_n betwixt_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o subject_a the_o husband_n and_o the_o wife_n the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n brethren_n and_o sister_n the_o master_n and_o the_o servant_n when_o the_o one_o be_v of_o one_o religion_n or_o ecclesiastical_a government_n and_o the_o other_o of_o another_o as_o you_o yea_o to_o your_o no_o very_a great_a advantage_n have_v experiment_a it_o several_a time_n the_o son_n may_v refuse_v to_o receive_v any_o communion_n with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o brother_n with_o the_o brother_n to_o the_o utter_a dissolution_n of_o all_o natural_a civil_a and_o domestical_a bond_n of_o society_n and_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o may_v be_v because_o the_o one_o may_v excommunicate_v the_o other_o as_o daily_a experience_n testify_v m._n s._n the_o shadow_n of_o the_o mountain_n seem_v man_n unto_o you_o judg._n 9.36_o a._n s._n so_o say_v zebul_n the_o servant_n of_o abimelech_n the_o son_n of_o the_o concubine_n who_o by_o a_o conspiracy_n with_o the_o schichemite_n be_v make_v king_n and_o afterward_o murder_v his_o brethren_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v man_n viz._n wicked_a abimelech_n with_o his_o army_n and_o no_o shadow_n of_o mountain_n m._n s._n will_v have_v we_o live_v in_o security_n and_o will_v rather_o tolerate_v socinianism_n arminianism_n yea_o judaism_n and_o mahumetanism_n then_o that_o his_o own_o sect_n shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v of_o so_o large_a a_o conscience_n be_v he_o a.s._n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n etc._n etc._n m.s._n but_o a._n s._n his_o may_n may_v possible_o not_o come_v in_o a_o age_n no_o nor_o in_o many_o generation_n and_o will_v he_o have_v so_o many_o thousand_o of_o the_o dear_a people_n of_o god_n as_o do_v apologise_v to_o eat_v their_o bread_n in_o darkness_n and_o he_o say_v heretofore_o that_o may_v come_v but_o once_o a_o year_n a.s._n it_o be_v subtle_o argue_v m.s._n of_o you_o with_o your_o may_n but_o it_o be_v too_o much_o that_o such_o a_o may_v come_v once_o a_o year_n or_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o better_a be_v it_o ten_o thousand_o of_o you_o shall_v perish_v than_o god_n be_v so_o offend_v for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n in_o divinity_n quodvis_fw-la malum_fw-la paenae_fw-la etiam_fw-la maximum_fw-la eligendum_fw-la potius_fw-la quà m_fw-la minimum_fw-la malum_fw-la culpae_fw-la nam_fw-la quaevis_fw-la culpa_fw-la pejor_fw-la quavis_fw-la poenâ_fw-la 2._o but_o i_o pray_v you_o learn_v of_o i_o that_o as_o impossibile_fw-it morale_fw-mi in_o moral_a matter_n such_o as_o this_o whereof_o we_o dispute_v be_v not_o that_o which_o never_o but_o which_o rare_o or_o hardly_o fall_v out_o so_o be_v possibile_fw-la morale_fw-la idem_fw-la quod_fw-la facilè_fw-la which_o easy_o and_o oftentimes_o fall_v out_o and_o not_o that_o fall_v out_o but_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v out_o so_o very_o oft_o we_o may_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o division_n in_o france_n the_o netherlands_o germany_n poland_n transilvania_n etc._n etc._n what_o i_o pray_v transport_v the_o crown_n of_o swede_n from_o the_o nephew_n to_o the_o uncle_n what_o move_v a_o king_n of_o spain_n to_o consent_v to_o his_o own_o son_n death_n what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o so_o great_a a_o war_n betwixt_o the_o turk_n and_o the_o persian_a and_o final_o what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o this_o our_o present_a war_n but_o the_o favour_v of_o popery_n the_o negotiation_n with_o rome_n our_o agent_n there_o father_n con_n and_o the_o pope_n nuncio_n here_o 2._o you_o be_v not_o so_o many_o thousand_o as_o you_o brag_v of_o save_v in_o london_n and_o a_o few_o mile_n about_o it_o your_o sect_n i_o think_v may_v easy_o be_v count_v by_o hundred_o and_o as_o for_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o the_o kingdom_n they_o be_v unknown_a creature_n to_o they_o 3._o if_o they_o be_v so_o dear_a to_o god_n they_o can_v never_o qua_fw-la tale_n suffer_v for_o so_o wicked_a a_o cause_n as_o for_o all_o licentiousness_n in_o religion_n 4._o they_o need_v not_o to_o suffer_v if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v turbulent_a but_o quiet_a and_o submit_v unto_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o such_o a_o ecclesiastical_a government_n as_o in_o god_n mercy_n shall_v be_v establish_v in_o the_o church_n what_o a_o sauciness_n be_v this_o that_o they_o will_v be_v content_a with_o nothing_o unless_o in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o state_n they_o may_v do_v what_o they_o will_v 5._o as_o for_o his_o rhetorication_n in_o tell_v i_o that_o i_o be_o breed_v of_o rock_n and_o suck_v the_o milk_n of_o tiger_n all_o that_o shall_v not_o hinder_v i_o to_o maintain_v that_o the_o independent_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o order_n and_o authority_n both_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a as_o other_o man_n be_v or_o else_o suffer_v for_o their_o turbulent_a humour_n m._n s._n i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o whether_o he_o deem_v himself_o to_o be_v of_o another_o religion_n than_o the_o apologist_n if_o so_o candorem_fw-la tuum_fw-la a.s._n in_o that_o malignant_a expression_n etc._n etc._n a.s._n as_o for_o my_o religion_n you_o may_v know_v it_o m.s._n it_o be_v that_o which_o be_v declare_v in_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n england_n the_o netherlands_o france_n etc._n etc._n but_o as_o for_o you_o sed_fw-la vos_fw-la qui_fw-la tandem_fw-la quibus_fw-la aut_fw-la venistis_fw-la ab_fw-la eris_fw-la quouè_fw-la tenetis_fw-la iter_fw-la that_o i_o know_v not_o and_o consequent_o whether_o i_o be_v of_o your_o religion_n or_o not_o you_o will_v have_v no_o confession_n of_o faith_n or_o discipline_n but_o what_o you_o may_v change_v fidem_fw-la diariam_fw-la aut_fw-la ad_fw-la summum_fw-la menstruam_fw-la such_o as_o you_o may_v change_v with_o every_o moon_n but_o to_o come_v more_o near_o to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v you_o set_v forth_o a_o confession_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o the_o independent_a church_n and_o subscribe_v all_o of_o you_o that_o you_o will_v stand_v to_o it_o and_o then_o i_o will_v answer_v your_o question_n if_o you_o will_v not_o here_o i_o will_v give_v you_o the_o best_a satisfaction_n i_o can_v and_o it_o be_v this_o viz._n