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B06481 A vulgar or popvlar discourse. Shewing that the warre [raised by the two] houses, fomented chiefly [by the Londo]ners ... and others ... disaffected to monarchicall government is not ... in defence of the ... Protestant religion ... the laws and liberties of the kingdom ... but rather destructive to them all. / Written dialogue-wise, by Irenaeus ... against Eristes ... Alvey, Yeldard. 1643 (1643) Wing V750; ESTC R186086 30,959 55

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of Supremacy and wipe out that Text of Saint Peter Where he wills you to submit to the King as Supreme 1 Pet. 2.17 Azariah the Priest and the rest of the Brethren did not assaile King Vzziah's Person presuming to burne Incense on the Altar of God neither did they thrust him out of the Temple by force they withstood him with Words rebuking him for the breach of Gods Law It appertains not to thee Vzziah to burne Incense Not with Weapons as your Martiall Termes import and when the King would not be a●monished but indignabundus in a chafe contemning the Priests admonition took a Censer in his hand to offer Incense the Lord then tooke him in hand and caused the L●●prosie to rise up in his forehead before the Priest then there was no need to bid him depart the Text saith He hastened to goe out because the Lord had smitten him God then thrust him out and the Priests thrust him out a●●●e ●●●●ed to goe ou● God thrust him our by infl●cting the visible punishment of Leaprosie upon him Visa lepr● Sace●●●tes Regem leprosum d●s stine eg●●d eudum ●ament Jose h. du●iq Ju●●c lib. 9. cap. ●1 the Priest thrust him out by sharpely rebuking him p●o●●uncing ●im uncleane or by admonishing him that the L●●prousie was risen up in his forehead and then being told that the spot of Leaprosie was upon him he f himselfe hasted to goe out Eristes But in that the Priests are commended for valian men it sh●wes that their worke wa● not only reproofe but resistance ●s Bridges observes Irenaeus And is it no argument of ●alour think you to reprove a King ●penly to his face surely albeit some dreaming Pr●phets who feare not to despise Government and speak evill of digniti●s have of late by their open rayling against Princes gone about to make their Persons contemptible yet in former times they were had in such awfull regard That it was held a matter of courage and valour to reprove them because such reproofes if they were not well taken might cost those that reproved them their lives as it did John Baptist and many of the Prophets And therefore God when he sent his Prophets to reprove Kings he often bad them not to be affraid and that God permitted to his Prophets or Priests under the Law any further attempts against Princes then in words to reprove them or to declare his will and precepts unto them I will not believe till I have better authority for it then Bridges his observations Eristes But we have warrantable examples and Presidents from the Reformed Churches of Germany France Genevah Scotland Holland to justifie our taking up arms in our own defence to be lawfull ●hough against the King Irenae●● Your Examples from Forraigne Churches without they have warrant from the word of God for what they did will be but weake proofes to justifie you in your doings though you could prove your conformity with them to be full and exact in all p●rticular Circumstances But more distinctly First I answer that none of the forenamed Protestant Churches have inserted this amongst the Articles of their Confessions to be believed as a positive truth that it is lawfull for Subjects to take up defensive arms against their lawfull Soveraigne and if they had for my part I would not believe it unlesse they could shew better authority for it out of the word of God then Buchanan Knoxe Boroughs Bridges or any of that Anti-monarchicall Faction have done Secondly this briefely I may say of any or of all the Reformed Churches that if they had not Law for what they did as you for ought I know have none for your defensive Arms against the King then their doings were not justifiable by the Lawes of their Country in foro soli much lesse by the Law of God in foro poli and the reason why I dare not be peremptory in passing my judgement upon the facts of other Churches is because the circumstances must be fully knowne before a fact can be rightly discerned or judged to be lawfull or unlawfull I have not so busied my selfe in other Common-wealths as that I dare definitively pronounce sentence of their doings being perhaps not throughly acquainted with the ground of them Thirdly to impure to a whole Church that which is taught or done by some in the Church or a facto ad jus from a thing done by some in an Orthodox Reformed Church to argue the lawfulnesse of doing it were ridiculous for many things are taught and done in a Church which are not taught and done by the Church and that which is done by a prevailing party in a Church is often done without the allowance and approbation of the best Divines in that Church as now Should the decisions of the pact convention of Divines in this Church or the Votes of the factious Party take place who would might they have their wills lead both Church and State in Triumph and set their feet upon the necke of Soveraignty there is no doubt but the flower of the Nobility and Gentry in this Kingdom both the Universityes the greatest and ablest part of Divines many thousands of the Kings most religious loyall Subjects of inferiour rank together with very many of the ablest and most judicious of the House of Commons that according to the rules of Religion Loyalty and Lawes have afforded their utmost assistance to His Majesty should all be censured as Delinquents and many of them suffer under the name of Malignants ty no ne I presume in his right wits could beleeve such a sentence to be the definitive sentence of the Church and State essentially considered though had it not been timely withstood it might and would have been the sentence of a prevailing faction in the Church and State But the Lord of Hosts I trust will take the cause of his Anointed into his own hands and fight his battells and not suffer His Majesty this Church and Nation to be so triumphed over and trampled upon without a speedy revenge of such high and hainous indignities Lastly Summe up the account and then tell me whether as the Primitive Church did so you of this Church and Kingdome may not gain more by humble supplicating and peaceable submitting to Authority then ever you are likely to gaine by a violent resisting of it I will close up this point with a remarkeable passage out of Calvin Si a saevo principe crudeliter torquemur si ab avaro aut luxurioso rapaciter expilamur si ab ignavo negligimur si ab impio denique Sacrilego vexamur ob pietatem subeat primum delictorum nostrorum recordatio quae talibus haud dubio Domini flagellis castigantur Inde humilitas impatientiam nostram fraenabit succurrat deinde haec cogitatio non nostrum esse hujusmodi malis mederi hoc tantum esse reliqunum ut Domini opem imploremus cujus in manu sunt Regum Corda Regnorum Inclinationes
thinke it hard if you might not be permitted to enterteine what Servant you would but should have them appointed and thrust upon you by another man Is it for his Honour to have the power of disposing the Militia taken from him which all other Kings his Predecessors ever had and enjoyed as the chiefest Prerogative and Flower of their Crowns and which if once he be divested of he can neither defend himselfe nor his Prerogatives Royall nor the Lawes of the L●nd in their true vigour nor his Loyall Subj●ct in their Rights Properties and Libertyes all which he is entrusted with nor over-awe and suppresse any of his Subjects if they should rebell nor be able to protect his Kingdoms against a Forraigne Prince or Potentate in case they should invade his Dominions Is this for his Honour Judge as you would be judged and doe as you would be done unto Lastly whereas you pretend that you take up Arms to rescue his Majesty out of the hands of the Malignant Party his greatest Enemies we know no Malign●nt Party within this Kingdome in all probability able to doe mischief besides the Separatists Men notoriously disaffected to all Government Disturbers of the Churches Peace and experimentally known to be fatall to Monarchy these and such as these His Majesties truely defines to be the Malignant Party who are Persons disaffected to the Peace and Government of the Kingdom such as neglecting and despising the Law of the Land give themselves other Rules to walke by dispencing with their obedience to Authority and these His Majesty heedfully avoids as Malignants destructive to the Church and Common-wealth But you would have them removed from the King as wicked Malignants w●om in his greatest afflictions he hath found most faithfull and trusty and of whose tryed Loyalty he hath had good proofe and experience and it is your usuall manner to empty the very sinck of Language upon the reverend Fathers of this our Israel and our most eminently learned Clergy and to Martyr their names with those opprobrious obloquies of Malignant Party Men disaffected to Peace Adherents to Popery Superstition Idolatry Scandalous Ministers whereas I doubt not but many of them will if need require be free of their dearest blood in refutation of such malitious calumnyes Eristes Well to wave this point admit that we fight not for but against the King yet we doe it in a good cause for the defence of the true Protestant Religion which is our chief inheritance Irenaeus You may not doe evill that good may come of it Rom. 3.4 And God is never more dishonoured then when Religion is made a Cloake to palliate publique Rebellion consider it well Religion teacheth thee to be subject ●o the King Rom. 13.1 and wilt thou for Religion in a forcible way oppose the King Eristes Why may I not when the King is enclined to Popery and would subvert the true Pro●estant Religion Irenaeus Thou art a man of a very light beleefe if thou canst be induced to harbour in thine heart any such conceit of so gracious and Religious a Prince beleeve me be that tell● thee so is none of the Kings friend but one of the Malignant p●rty who would rob the King of the Loyall subjection and affections of his People which is his royall due And to the end thou mayst know how much he is wronged in the report I referre thee to His own Declarations wherein he often attest● God with fearfull Imprecation That He will inviolably conserve and constantly maintain the true Protestant Religion as in His M●jesties Speech the ninth of March 1641. God so deale with me and mine as all my thoughts and intentions are upright for the maintenance of the true Protestant Religion And in His Declaration to both Houses in answer to that presented to Him at Newmarket M●rch 9. 1641. We doe out of the innocency of Our Soules wish that the judgements of Heaven might be manifested upon those who have or had any such designe of altering Religion in the Kingdom And in His Majesties Answer to the Petition which accompanied the Declaration presented to Him at Hampton Court December 1. 1641. We are perswaded in Our Conscience that no Church can be found upon the Earth that professeth the true Religion with more purity of Doctrine then the Church of England doth which we will maintain with constancy while we live in its purity and glory And in His Declaration May 19. Where He desires His Actions may no longer prosper or have a blessing from God upon them or Him then they shall be directed to the glory of God in the maintenance of the true Protestant Religion Eristes Sed quid opus est verbis cum facta videam But what are words without deeds or attested Protestations unlesse they be seconded with answerable and suitable practises Irenaeus If by the true Protestant Religion you meane the Religion or publique Forme of Gods worship established by Law in the Church of England and sealed by the blood of many Martyrs you cannot be ignorant that His Majesty conformes to it in constant practise even beyond the strictnesse of most of His Subjects and what other way can he testifie his sincere affection to the true Protestant Religion but only by his profession and practise He then that tells thee the King is inclined to Popery in his heart either speakes what he knowes then he is a searcher and knower of the heart which is a Prerogative belonging to God alone not communicable to any Man or Angell or else he speakes what he knowes not and then he raiseth a causelesse slander upon the King contrary to his frequent Protestations and practise which is an high crime of a dangerous consequence that deserves the utmost soverity of punishment Thou mayst nor beare false witnesse against thy neighbour of the meanest rank and wilt thou beare false witnesse against thy Prince thou may'st nor think ill of the King no not in thy heart much lesse shouldest thou dare to speak ill of him with thy tongue After thy Prince hath often protested his zeale to Religion and in a solemne manner called God to witnesse those Protestations and desired God to blesse him according to his true meaning therein and his people to defend and serve him no longer then he shall con● u● const●● in such resolutions wilt thou still think 〈◊〉 ●●y that h●●o●h but dissemble good God what is become of charity which bindes us to beleeve the best of every man 〈◊〉 we have evident proofes to the contrary Eristes But the King calls in the popish party to 〈◊〉 and assist him ●nd is not thatan evident convincing proofe that he is popishly affected Irenaeus No for first His M ●esty was very c●n●●lou● and tender in this point and d●d not ad●…t them of the popish party to ayde and assist him in his just c use 〈◊〉 which never Prince had juster till the opposite party had admitted Papists Brownists men of all