Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	believe_v	church_n	faith_n	2,838	5	5.7579	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20940	A conference held at Paris betweene Father Gontier a Iesuite, and Doctor Du Moulin seconded by the Lady of Salignac. Together with Doctor Du Moulin his answere to Gontier his letter to the King concerning the subiect of this conference. By Peter Du Moulin Doctor of Diuinitie, and minister of the Word of God in the church of Paris. Translated according to the French copie printed in Paris.; Veritable narré de la conference entre les Sieurs Du Moulin et Gontier. English	Du Moulin, Pierre, 1568-1658.; Gontery, Jean, 1562-1616. aut	1615 (1615)	STC 7319; ESTC S111071	14,986	30

if his royall vertues were not aboue al enuie and out of the danger of forgetfulnesse they must needs lose some of their lustre by being mixt with the impurenesse of their pamphlets as pearles that are wrapt in smoake neither doth he like of these seditious preachers which now preach in their Sermons before his Maiestie that we hate dominion set al kind of gouernment at nought for his Maiestie is not ignorant that this is so farre from being true that on the contrary this is the principall cause for which we are hated to wit because wee haue not taken on oath of allegeance to anie other then to the King because we hold that the Pope cannot giue or take away realmes nor dispense with subiects for the oath of fealty because wee teach that he should not haue heere anie other lawes any other iudges any other prisons then those of the King because that we shew that his realme is spoiled of siluer which passeth ouer into Italy for the paiment of first fruits dispensations absolutions matrimoniall contracts c. And that cousenage and tyrannie are established vnder the shew of religion Finallie because we complaine that the Pope makes Kings kisse his feete and tramples on their Crownes would wee but sticke to the Pope in these things hee would easilie dispense with vs for our beleefe in the Gospell or by a speciall priuiledge would permit vs to beleeue thereon in the things which were not preiudiciall to his profit Is there any one that can accuse the reformed Churches of rebellion or attempting ought against our Kings or of conspiring to blow them vp with gun-powder and yet to dare to preach this in the presence of his Maiesty which reproach the onely consideration and manie proofes that he hath had of our fidelitie doe sufficiently confute For that the Iesuites goe about to perswade him that we are rebellious or ill-minded towards him is all one as if Caiphas should defend Iesus Christ against his Apostles or as if Catiline should accuse Cicero of sedition At the end of Master Gontiers Epistle there is a discourse annexed subscribed with the name of Corbozon Mount-gommeri which was not present at the conference but saies that he heard of it at the Vicaridge of Saint Nicholas This so honorable a name of Mount-gommeri doth vnhappily come to be written vnder so base a pamphlet and I cannot beleeue that so false and ridiculous peece of stuffe should come from vnder the handes of a Gentleman of that honor as he is without doubt some paltry Iesuite composed this writing at his pleasure which comes no more neere the truth of that which past betweene vs then Ouid his Metamorphosis doth to that of the Gospell And indeed the recitall that Master Gontier hath made of our conference in his letter to the King hath nothing like vnto this but Monsieur de Corbozon is willing to honor it in couering it vnder his name as with a cloake which will scarce euer be brought him backe againe cleane It would bee time lost to go about to confute this writing for if I should conuince the Author of absurditie Master Gontier would renounce him as one that had written vpon false information and so I should haue done as good as nothing As for the defiance and threatnings of Master Gontier we neuer yet refused vpon any occasion that was offered to enter the lists vpon iust and equall termes But this people loues to set on men in corners that they may a little after publish the contrary the more freely especially when they haue one in hand to deale withall which is alreadie conuerted and which hath promised to yeeld himselfe before the combat only they make it deferre it a little till the time they haue plotted a conference Now for to iustifie this which I say to be true Master Gontier a few daies after all this adoe ill befitting the grauitie of a Doctour will not yet let mee scapeso saying that he will enter in conference with me concerning the antiquitie of our Church and I meaning to enter the lists with him haue at this time sent him a writing of which this is the substance I maintaine that M. Gontier can not shew me in the foure first ages after Christ any Church or any man which held the same religion as the Church of Rome doth at this day and for this purpose 1 He should shew me any ancient Church that celebrated the Communion without Communicants as they do ordinarily in the Church of Rome 2 That he should shew me that any ancient Church did barre the people of the Communion of the cup. 3 Or that in any ancient Church the common seruice was read in a tongue which the people vnderstood not 4 Or that any ancient Church did forbid the people to read the holy Scriptures as it is by no meanes permitted without a speciall priuiledge in the countries where the Pope is absolute Commander 5 Or that in any ancient Church there were euer made any images of God and representation of the Trinitie in stone or in painting 6 Or that in any auncient Church the people were taught to pray without vnderstanding that which they said 7 Or that any ancient Church did do seruice to the images of Creatures in kissing them in clothing them by bowing themselues downe before them and offring vp sacrifices vnto them 8 Or that any ancient Church euer beleeued that the Virgine Mary is crowned Queene of heauen and Empresse of the world as it is painted throughout all their Churches 9 Or that any ancient Church did assigne diuers offices to Saints to one ouer this Country to another ouer that to one ouer this sicknesse to another ouer that to one ouer this trade c. 10 Or that any ancient Church did euer beleeue that the Pope could giue and take away realmes and free subiects from their oath of allegeance canonize Saints dispense with vowes and promises made vnto God 11 Or that in the ancient Church the Pope by his pardons did distribute the superabundant satisfactions of the Saints for the remission of the punishment of the sinnes of others 12 Or that the Pope did then lay his pardons on one Church and not on another on one village and not on another and this sometimes for one hundred and two hundred yeares of true pardon 13 Or that the ancient Church did beleeue a Lymbus of little infants 14 Or that the ancient Church did euer adore the host which the Priest holds with diuine worship and that this is the cause why the Priest doth vse to hold vp the host in the Masse 15 Or that the bookes of the Machabees were held for Canonicall in the ancient Church 16 Or that the ancient Church did beleeue that the Bishop of Rome could not erre in the faith 17 Or that the ancient Church did beleeue that Iesus Christ by his death and suffering did indeed discharge vs from the punishment of sinne before baptisme but as for the punishment of sinne committed after baptisme he hath changed it from eternall vnto temporall and that it lies vs vpon to satisfie the iustice of God for this That Master Gontier should tell vs if in these points he will admit of the Fathers for iudges we will aske but halfe a douzen cleare passages vpon euery point FINIS * He did the like at Amiens against Monsieur Hucher being troubled to answer he sent to fetch his concordance

companie Gontier exeused himselfe and said he did it vnwittingly afterward he began to write these words this offring cannot be made vnto the people Afterward he paused vpon it and blotted out that which he had written then passing that ouer he posts to the second article of Du Moulins answere who required him to answere to the first article Gontier answered that he would not answere to it at all and that in his answering he would haue to do with those parts which hee thought most feeblest Du Moulin prest him againe saying that his conclusion was weake whilest that one of his propositions remained still denied Gontier refused againe Some that sate there comming vnto him whilst he did thus delay vrged him vnto it yet he persisted in his refusall but vppon the second article he said that Du Monlin denied his owne Bible which saith is shed and not shall be shedde Du Moul. Answered that our translation was turned faithfully according to the Greeke and that this did proue nothing but that the exposition of the Romish Church which the bibles approued by the counsell of Trent and the Masse it selfe doth carry is false Gont. Gontier then made one of Robert Stephens Greeke Testaments be brought vnto him and for to weaken the authoritie of the Greeke text said that many things there had beene changed and that at the end of the booke there was a table of more then fiue hundred seuerall readings Du Moul. Answered that these diuers readings did not alter the sense at all that all this inueighing against the originall of the new-testament did not help him a iot to proue that which as yet he could not proue to wit that Iesus Christ offered vp his bloud to God in the Eucharist and he called vpon Gontier to proue it Gontier continuing in denying to proue it to him and the disputation being there at a stay all the Ladies to gratifie him entreated them to talke of some other subiect and said that this matter was to deepe for their capacities A new matter proposed ONe of the Ladies therefore requested that these words might be expounded This is my body Du Moulin Answered and said That no man doubted of the truth of these words and that wee should beleeue the Scripture according to the exposition that it carries of it selfe that these words This is my body were thus expounded by the Apostle Saint Paul 1. Cor. 10. chap. 16. vers The bread which wee breake is the communion of the body of Christ An exposition which the Church of Rome doth reiect not beleeuing at all that it is bread nor that we breake bread nor that this bread so broken is the communion of the body of Christ seeing that it is his very body Hereunto adde that the Euangelists do with a ioint consent witnesse that Iesus Christ broke bread and gaue it He tooke bread broke it and gaue it Therewith the Church of Rome denies not beleeuing that hee gaue bread Nay which is more it denies these words This is my body For seeing the word This signifies that which he gaue and seeing that he gaue bread the sense of these words This is my body is This bread is my body the which the Church of Rome denies Gontier on the contrarie opposed against this that Saint Paul had said in the Eucharist that the body of our Lord is broken for vs that the bread whereof hee speakes saying The bread which we breake is his flesh as it is said in the sixt of Saint Iohn The bread which I will giue is my flesh Du Moul. Replied and said that herein Gontier contradicted the Church of Rome which doth not beleeue at all that the Lords body is broken in the Eucharist and asked of Gontier whether he would subscribe to this That the Church of Rome doth beleeue that the body of the Lord is broken in the Eucharist that Gontier by this word Bread meaning the body of Christ makes the words of Saint Paul ridiculous making him to say that the body of Christ which wee breake is the communion of the body of Christ That in that place of Saint Iohn he speakes not at all of the Eucharist but promiseth to yeeld himselfe vnto death as he makes manifest by the words following The bread which I will giue is my flesh which I will giue for the life of the world now he did not giue himselfe for the life of the world but in his death Gont. Hereunto Gontier answered nothing but only this that these words I will giue being twise repeated were taken in two seuerall significations Afterward being required to subscribe that the Church of Rome doth beleeue that the body of Christ is broken in the Sacrament He tooke paper and writ Christ hath broken his body in the Eucharist Saint Paul 1. Cor. 11. vers 14. which was not that which was demanded of him Hereupon being required to speake his minde freely and tell in his conscience whether he thought the Apostle Saint Paul did speake truth saying that we breake bread He answered flatly that he would answere no more then he had done alreadie which moued one of the Gentlemen that sate by Master Paupart by name who came in at the latter end of the conference to say vnto him wee haue brought our eares but it seemes you want a mouth This done Gontier being prest a new to proue that Iesus Christ hath offered his bloud to God in the Eucharist forsooke the battaile and being ashamed of himselfe and cleane out of heart retired into one of the corners of the chamber where being all alone he falls a writing what he thought best in a paper apart which when he had shewed vpon the table a little after hee toare in peeces snatching it out of the handes of my Lady of Liembrune who was willing to haue kept it He therefore giuing roome my Lady Baronesse of Salignac succeeded in his place The vpshot of the conference MY Ladies discourse tended to this end I haue said she withdrawne my selfe from the religion wherein I was bred after I came once to the through discussing of the cause I haue spent foure whole yeares in sounding of this I haue looked vpon all the Fathers Latine and Greeke I kept a man of purpose to translate them I haue found that the Fathers of the foure first ages are conformable in all things to the faith of the Church of Rome hereupon I was confirmed in mine opinion and my conuersation hath turned diuerse others Du Moul. Said Madame since you vnderstand that which you do so well giue me leaue to aske you if you do not call vpon the Virgine Mary and if the forme of your praier wherein you call vpon her be not Aue Maria c. yes said she Then Du Moulin said vnto her you do not therefore vnderstand what you do for by speaking thus you thinke you pray to the Virgine Mary but indeed you pray vnto God for her saying vnto