the same satisfaction whiche Iesus Christe hath made to God his father may be communicated and appiled to vs. THE FOVRTH dialogue is of the iustification and sanctification of man. Of the faith in Iesus Christ and of the Iustification thereby MATHEVV WHyche is the meane whereby to comme to that Communycation wherof thou hast euen nowe spoken and by the whiche wée muste communicate with Iesus Christ Pe. There is none other but the only faith in Iesus Christ For by the same we are iustified before God and not by our workes neyther in all nor in parte M. What is it to be iustified before God P. It is to be accoumpted for iust at his iudgemente as if we had neuer sinned M. How maye this be done by the mean of faith P. Bycause that the spirite of God by whome it is giuen vs doth ioyne vs with Christ as members of his body by the meanes of the same faith in such sorte that the iustice of Christe and all that euer he hath done for vs is imputed and ascribed to vs as though it were our owne proper Of the iustificatiō by faith by vvorks M. WHy is this honoure rather giuen to faith than to works P. Bycause there is no iustice that may satisfie the iudgement of God vnlesse it be perfecte as is that of Iesus Christe M. Why may not that of Iesus Christ be as well allowed vnto vs by our works as by faith P. Bycause that they are things altogither cōtrary to be iustified by faith to be iustified by a mans owne works M. What contrarietie is there in that P. If that man could find iustice in himselfe and in his owne workes whereby he mighte satisfie vnto God he should then haue no neede of that of Iesus Christ Of the satisfactiō tovvards god by works M. ANd if he may not satisfie in euery pointe maye he not yet at the least satisfie in parte P. If he cannot satisfie him in the whole no more can he in parte M. For what cause P. Chiefly for two causes M. Whiche is the firste P. It is that God receyueth no iustice for satisfaction if it be not sound and perfect and worthie of his maiestie as wee haue alreadie touched M. Which is the other P. It is that man being naught and vniust of his nature can doe no worke that may be iust as we haue also sayd if he be not first made good and iust Of the works wherby man may satisfie at the iudgement of God. M. DOest thou meane by this that the good and iuste worke maketh not the man good and iust P. I doe not altogether denie but that the good iust work maketh the man good and iust but I say that mans worke can not doe this bycause there procéedeth none suche from him M. Which is then the work that may doe this P. That of Iesus Christ wherof wée haue spoken heretofore whiche bringeth vnto vs this commoditie when wée are made partakers of hym by the meane of Faythe as wée haue alreadie sayd Of the causes why iustification is attributed to faith only M. SHEwe me nowe for full resolution what is the chiefe cause why iustification is ascribed to faith P. Bicause that in stead of bringing to God any thing that is of man he bringeth him to Iesus christ to receiue of him therby that whiche hée can not fynde in himselfe M. For what cause is this done P. To the ende that man may be founde iust before God not by his owne iustice for he can not but by that of Iesus Christe Of the satisfaction by faith M. THy meaning is then that this iustice of Iesus Christ maketh a man iust before God as though he were wholly innocent forsomuche as GOD estéemeth him for such an one accepting the Iustice of his sonne Iesus Chryste for full satisfaction P. It is so and it bringeth yet beside that an other very great commodity M. What is it P. It is that where as before hée coulde doe nothyng but euill this fayth dothe sanctifie him disposing him to the obedience of the will of God and to all good works to the ende that he may serue to iustice to holynesse where as before he serued to iniustice and to sinne M. How is it that faith doth sanctifie man according to thy saying P. There be two things to consider in this sanctification M. Which is the first P. It is that Iesus Christe hauing taken our owne flesh in the wombe of the Virgin in the which he was conceiued by the working of the holy Ghost hath also sanctified it in his Of which thing beside the testimonie that we haue of the Angell in the holy Scriptures the holy Ghost hath yet yelded more ample testimonie in the baptisme of Iesus Christ when in fourme of a doue he did descend vppon him whiche is our head in whome all his members were foorthwith sanctified M. Which is the other pointe P. It is that faith whiche embraceth and receyueth wholly Iesus Christ with al his gifts and graces is neuer in man without the spirite of him nor the spirite of him without his frutes whiche are altogither contrary to the works of the flesh to witte of the corrupted man that is not regenerate by the spirite of God. Of the true spring of good vvorks M DEclare vnto me if thou vnderstandest by this that faith is the fountaine of all good works and the good roote whiche maketh man a good trée to beare good frute wher as before he was an euil trée and bare euill frute P. It cannot bée otherwise M. I thinke then it is the cause why Sainct Paule speaking of the true Christian faith doth call it the liuing and working saith thorough charitie and why Saincte Iames saith that the faith that is withoute works is dead P. There is no doubte of it Of the accomplishing of the lavve in Iesus Christ and of the difference that is betvvene the iustification and sanctification of a Christian man. M. SEing then that man is so refourmed by the meane of faythe thou wilte then saye that he is otherwise disposed to obey the lawe of God than he was before whē he was yet in his owne naturall P. It is easie to vnderstande by that which we haue already said M. May we then in no wise obey the lawe of god excepte that we be first regenerate by his spirite and refourmed to his Image P. No in déede M. If we cā in no sorte obey we are then farre off from yelding perfecte obedience to the whole lawe P. It is true M. What is the cause thereof P. It is for that that our regeneration and reformation is neuer fully perfecte in vs so long as we are wrapped in this corruptable flesh in this worlde M. What other remedy is there then P. It is to haue recourse to the iustification which we haue alredy obteyned thorough the faith in Iesus Christe by the
procéede Wherfore if there be any sinne that deserueth to be accompted sinne it is that same Of the meane vvhereby man maye be deliuered from sinne and from the vvrathe of God vvhiche sinne bringeth to him M SEing then that mā can find in himselfe no remedie to with-holde him from that bottomlesse pitte of perdition where is it that he shal fynd it elsewhere P. In God only who only canne reforme hym to his Image as at the fyrste hee did and formed him according to the same M. But by what meane may he obtayne so greate a good thing of God considering that he hath so greatly offended him and procured his wrath P. It is certaine that no man may haue accesse to God to obteyne saluation of him without a mediatoure by whome he may be made at one with him Of the causes for the vvhich there is neyther man nor Angell sufficiente to the office of mediatoure betvvene God and man and of the greatnesse of the vvrath of God against sinne M. ANd who is this mediatoure which may make this appointmente P. For so much as all men are in like faulte and condemnation there is none among them sufficient for that office of what holynesse and qualitie soeuer he be Mat. Where must he then be sought Shall it be among the Angells whiche haue no sinne P. The very Angells can not be sufficiente therevnto M. Why not P. Chiefly for two causes M. Whiche is the first P. It is that the wrath and cursse of God is so heauie a burden that there is no creature whatsoeuer he be neyther in heauen nor in the earth that may beare it but that he shall be beaten downe with it vtterly M. What is the cause there P. It is bicause that the offence through sinne committed is done against God which is infinite and an eternall prince and king wherefore it deserueth also paines infinite and eternall M. Haue we any testimonie of the same P. The angells which haue sinned may be sure testimonies vnto vs. M. In what sorte P. If that they which were so excellent creatures coulde not themselues beare that which they had deserued for their parte how may one amongst them beare all that that all mankind hath deserued togither M. This reason is very plaine But which is the other cause that maketh that the very Angells are not sufficient to such an office P. For so much as seing that the offence was cōmitted by mā it must also be repaired in him by him M. For what cause P. To the ende that God may be founde true and iust and also mercifull togither Of the setting forth of the iust iudgemēt of the mercy of god in the redēptiō of mā M. HOw doste thou vnderstande the same P. If god did not punish mā acording to the desert of his transgression and according to the threatnings that he himself hath giuen vnto him the sentence that he hath giuen against him where should the truth iustice of God be M. I vnderstand well this point but what wilt thou say of his mercy P. In like sort if he punished man according to his desert where should then this mercy be by the which he sheweth forth his infinit goodnesse more than by any other vertue whatsoeuer that is in him Of the only true mediator Iesus Christ M. If there be neyther man nor Angel sufficient to that office what other mean resteth then by the which that fault of man may be repaired by him in him P. Bycause that man could not among all the creatures find any God hath prouided according to the pietie compassion that he had of him being moued by his only mercy and inestimable charitie M. Which is this mean P. It is that he hath giuen his only sonne Iesus Christe to do this office M. And what mean hath he obserued in this worke P. It is that Iesus Christ being the Eternal true God of one only essence with the father toke humain flesh in the womb of the virgin Marie by the very ordināce of God his father M. What néed was there that he should take humain fleshe vpon him to execute that office P. It was euen so necessarie to the ende that in the same he might satisfie the iust iudgement of God for all men Of the vnion of the diuine and humaine nature in the person of Iesus Chryst and of the causes of the same M. Was it necessary that the same mediator should be very God and very man togither in one very person P. It is euen so chiefly for thrée causes M. Which is the first P. It is that if he had not bene very man he could not haue suffred in our flesh nature that which he hath suffered was to suffer for vs. M. And if he had not suffred the same what incōuenience shuld ther haue ben P. That he shuld not haue born for vs in our nature fleshe the wrath curse of God which we had deserued and then he should not haue satisfied the iudgement of God thorowe his obedience to put away by the same in our own flesh and nature the rebellion by the whiche we haue deserued this iudgemente M. Which is the other cause P. It is that if he had ben but only man and that he had not ben vnited with God being very God and very man in one very person he could not haue ben able to beare this burden of the wrath of god which is so greate and so importable but that he shoulde haue ben swallowed vp how iust or innocent soeuer he shulde haue ben M. Which is the thirde P. It is that he shoulde not haue ben able also to haue brought saluation and life to man if he had not had the fountaine in him selfe by meane of his diuine nature Of the sacrifice and satisfaction of Iesus Christ and of the vertue therof M. WHich is then the meane whereby Iesus Christe hath satisfied for vs in his humaine nature and fleshe P. It is the sacrifice that he himselfe hath made of his owne body and bloud by his passion and death M. Howe is the sacrifice of Iesus Christ of such vertue P. For two principall causes M. Whiche is the first P. The paine the which he béeing innocent hath endured for vs whiche were culpable by the which payne he who had not deserued it hath deliuered vs from it which we haue deserued M. Which is the seconde P. It is the perfecte obedience whiche he hath yelded to God his father in recompence of the transgression and rebellion which was founde in vs. Of the communication in the benefites of Iesus Christ M. IS it sufficiente that he is deade and that he hath yelded to God his father one such an obedience P. If that same were ynough all shoulde be saued indifferently as well infidels as faithfull men M. What is more required then P. That
whiche we do also obtaine dayly remission of all our sinnes For albeit that our sanctification be not yet thoroughly perfecte yet notwithstanding that same letteth not but that our iustification is alredy perfecte M. Doest thou meane that our iustification doth supplie that which wanteth of our sanctification P. I can not tel whether thou takest my wordes as though I meant that we might satisfie towards God in parte by our good works the which we impute to satisfactiō and that Iesus Christ shuld satisfy only for the rest for vs by the same that may be on his side being alowed vnto vs by the iustificatiō For if thou didst so vnderstand it thou shuldest greatly deceiue thy selfe M. Wherein P. Chiefly in two points M. Shew me the first P. It is in that thou shouldest spoile God at the least of a great parte of the honor which is due vnto him for the saluation which we haue of him by Iesus Chryste and the other parte we shall attribute to man. M. In what sorte P. In that that by this meane he should be our sauioure but for the one halfe and wée for the other M. Which is the other point P. It is that thou shouldest presente to God a satisfaction ouermuche imperfecte M. I confesse if I should present vnto him but my works but when I shal present vnto him my works for satisfaction and thē the satisfaction whiche Christ hath made for me with them What imperfection then may more remaine P. If the satisfaction of Iesus Christ be sufficiente thou néedest to present none other to God if it be not sufficiente thou canst not satisfie that whiche maye there wante by any thing that thou canst do M. Why not P. Bycause that God can allowe nothing for satisfaction which is not pure sounde and perfecte as he is Of the distinction that ought to be had betvvene the cause of our saluation and the testimonie of the same M. EXpounde vnto me somewhat more plainly thy meaning in this P. I will say vnto thée for the firste that we must put difference in this matter betwene the cause of our saluation and the testimonie of the same and then afterwarde betwene the sanctification by Iesus Christe whiche is imputed to vs and that whiche is ioyned to our person M. What thinkest thou to be the cause of our saluation P. Iesus Christ dwelling in vs by faith M. What meanest thou by the testimonie that we haue of the same P. The sanctification whereof we nowe speake M. Howe doest thou vnderstande that it is the testimonie of our saluation and of the cause of the same and not the cause it selfe P. For bycause it testifieth that Iesus Christ dwelleth in vs as the effecte testifieth of his cause M. What followeth thereof P. That the cause is there seing that we sée the effects to wit Iesus Christ with all his gifts graces Of the difference that must be put betvvene the sanctification by Christ vvhich is atributed vnto vs and that vvhich is ioyned to our person as a qualitie sticking to the same M. ANd what inconueniente were it to holde our sanctification for the cause of our saluation P. For the better vnderstāding of al this matter it is méete that I expound vnto thée yet the differēce betwene the sanctificatiō of Iesus Christ which is allowed vs whereof I haue euē now spoken and that which is ioyned to our proper perso and then the frutes of the same M. What difference dost thou put therein P. I do call sanctification properly that whiche we consider in the very person of Iesus Chryste the which sanctification is not properlye ours as a qualitie cōiuncte to our person but only by imputation M. What meanest thou by that imputation P. That it is allowed vnto vs as his iustice is attributed and allowed vnto vs by the iustificatiō which we obteyne in him by faith Mat. Is that the cause why Sainct Paule saith that God hath made Iesus Chryste vnto vs wisdome iustice sanctification and redemption P. There is no doubte of it but it must be considered that beside this kinde of sanctification that is so imputed and allowed vnto vs there is yet an other that is ioyned to our very person not only by imputation but as a qualitie sticking in vs whiche procéedeth from that first kind of sanctificatiō wherof we haue euen now spoken M. What vertue hath euery of them in vs P. The firste doth fully sanctifie vs before God bycause it is full and perfecte M. The other is it not of the same nature and force P. No. For it sanctifieth vs but in parte M. For what cause P. Bycause that it is but begonne in vs and not perfecte wherefore it cannot fully sanctifie vs excepte it be full and perfecte M. And when shall it be so P. When our regeneration and reformation to the Image of God shall be M. It shall not then bée in this mortall life P. It is true but it shal be in the life to come in the whiche our life whiche is now hiddē in Iesus Christ shal be shewed and what we be shall appeare when we shall be made like to the glorious body of Iesus Christ Of the cause of the difference that is in these tvvo kindes of sanctification M. WHat is the very cause of this difference that thou puttest betwene these two kindes of sanctification P. I call the first perfecte For that that it is the very sanctification not only of the whiche Iesus Christe is sanctified in hys flesh and humane nature but also by reason whereof he is called the holy one of holy ones For so muche as by the communication of the same he doth sanctifie all his elected to make them holy and without blame before God who hathe chosen them therevnto M. If it be the same sanctification wherewith Iesus Christ is sanctified and doth sanctifie others it is very certaine that it cannot be but perfecte P. If it be perfecte in him it is also perfecte in vs in so much as dwelling in vs by faith we haue him with all the holynesse that he bringeth with hym the which we euer drawe out of him as of his true fountaine the which we haue is our selues whē we haue Iesus christ M. If we haue in Iesus Christe the fountaine of all holynesse whereby we are continually and perpetually sanctified What other imperfecte sanctification may then be in vs P. That which we cōsider in our owne proper fleshe and nature regenerate and renewed by the spirite of God which is as it were watered with the streames of that fountaine of all sanctification to make vs bring foorth the frutes of true sanctification and holynesse in the stead of the frutes of sinne which it brought foorth in time before as the earth whiche being cursed and barren is afterwarde made fertile and beareth better frutes by the blessing of God. Of
therfore man shall leaue father and mother and shall sticke to his wyfe If ther be great difference betwene the nature of the man and of the woman and that of other liuing creatures cōcerning the very bodie the difference is yet much more greate concerning the soule forsomuche as the other lyuing creatures were not created to the image and lykelynesse of God as man was wherefore they haue not a soule of a heauenly and diuine nature as he hath P. Thou séest then alredy here the vnion and communion of Nature that man and woman haue togither as well of body as of soule and the difference that is betwene them and all other liuing creatures in all these two pointes M. I do nowe vnderstande well this vnion and communion of nature whiche is betwene man and woman withoute the whiche they coulde not be allied togither by marriage as man and wife P. Thou oughtest in like sorte to vnderstande that we maye haue also no communicatoin with Iesus Christe if we haue not first the same communion of nature with him whereby he was made man lyke vnto vs as touching the nature and substance of the flesh M. I haue well vnderstood that which thou hast alredy sayde to that purpose concerning the communion of nature the whiche he hath of nature with vs and not at all with the Angells Of an other more speciall vniō and coniunction which is proper to marriage vvhich is betvvene Iesus Christ and his Churche M. NOw it is not inough to be vnited ioyned togither by mariage to be of one very humane nature that the one be masle the other femasle but it is also requisite that there be a more neare and a more speciall vnion and coniunction M What is that other coniunction P. It is a coniunction which is made by aliance by the whiche the man and the woman that are vnited ioyned togither by the same haue a speciall communion betwene thē the which the husbande hath not with other women nor the woman with other men M. I do wel vnderstand that ther is no suche coniunction and communion of body and goods and of al things among al other men and women that are not married togither as ther is betwene the man and the wife by the alliance and coniunction of marriage that is betwene them P. It is very true For this vnion and cōmunion is suche that the husbande hathe not power of his owne body but the wife as also the wife hath not power of hirs but the husband M. If there be such communion and coniunction of body there is no doubte but it is also of all good euill that may happē vnto thē togither P. It is euē so by the special cōmuniō which Iesus Christ hath with the faithful that the faithfull haue with hym by the power of the holy ghost which ioyneth thē with him by true lyuing faith M. Thou meanest then that there is so great differēce betwene the cōmuniō that is betwéen Iesus christ the faithful in respect of the vnfaithful as is betwen that which is betwene the mā the wife in respect of other mē womē P. It is euen so For the only cōmuniō of nature maketh not cōmuniō of body goodes betwene al men and women as doth the coniunction of marriage the whiche the husband the wife haue togither M. Thou wilt thē say in like sorte that the communion of nature the which Iesus Christ hath commō with all mē doth not carie with it such communiō of al things as doth that which he hath special with the faithful by means of the faith which thei haue in him P. the vnbeleuers haue nothing cōmō with Iesus christ but that thei ar mē of the same human nature but the faithfull haue this more which is the principall that all that they haue is common to Iesus Christ with them and that whiche Iesus Christe hath is common to them also M. What is it that Iesus Christe may take of them forsomuch as they be all none other than poore and sinfull men P. He taketh vppon him their sinnes and the paine whiche is due vnto them as though he himselfe had committed them and that he were guiltie to discharge and delyuer them M. He taketh then nothing of vs but onely the euill whiche is in vs P. What other thyng may he take séeing that there is none other thing in vs But the nature of the alliance and communion which we haue with him thorough faith bringeth it for otherwise ther should be no perfect communion and so the alliance shoulde not be full if there were no participation of good and euill suche as it shoulde and oughte to be among those whiche be allyed M. Then on the contrary it muste be following the nature of this communion and alliance that wée receiue of Iesus Christe the good things which are in him as he doth the euill that is in vs P. It is so to be vnderstode M. Behold a communion and alliance which is greatly to our aduauntage P. It is wholly to oure aduantage and therfore it should so much the more inflame vs in the loue of God and rauishe and carrie vs away in admiration of his goodnesse of Iesus Christ our Lord and of that most excessiue loue wherewith he hathe loued vs. M. That same communion is it the same that is in the Symbole of the Apostles vpon the whiche we are at this presente the communion of Sainctes P. It is the verye same And bicause it is made by the power of the holy Ghoste we will speake more largely of it when we shal speake of the holy Ghost and of the Churche How that Iesus Christe can not be the sauiour of mankinde vnlesse hee haue as well an humane soule as an humane bodie M. I Vnderstand now well by that whiche thou hast expoūded vnto me concerning the humane nature of Iesus Christ that wée could haue no saluation by him if he had not a verye bodie of oure fleshe and substance and that we were fleshe of his fleshe and bone of his bones and except we had suche alliance with hym as ther is betwene the husbād the wife But I would gladly that thou diddest shew me somthing more plainly the causes for the which it is also requisite for our saluation that Iesus Christe haue an humane soule as wel as an humane body P. Euen as we could not be saued if he had not suffered in our humane fleshe and borne the paine for vs whiche we haue deserued by our sinnes it is euen the like concerning the soule M. For what cause P. For bicause that if he had suffred but in our bodie in our flesh he should not then haue satisfied but in our flesh and in our body and for them only and not for the soule And so shoulde it haue come to passe the bodie should bée saued and not the
whiche she may better bée And therfore god hath not giuen vnto them hir but for a certaine time Hovve that the gifte of preaching is at all times necessarie in the Church and of the ordinarie ministerie of the same M. DEclare to me more familiarly by examples thy meaning Pe. Séeing that the Church can not be a Churche but by the meane of Faithe in Iesus Chryst and that the meane whereby the faithfull whiche are the membres of the same are called to the faithe is the preaching and hearing of the woorde of God it followeth well that necessarily this word be euer there taught and that the Churche be first assembled togither and afterward augmeÌ„ted entertayned conserued by the same M. I do so vnderstaÌ„d it wel P. Now this word caÌ„not be there set forth entertained but only that ther be meÌ„ which haue this gift of the holy Ghost to know how to set it forth in such sort as it is méet as true ê“phets ministers of god as the Lord hathe also promised vnto it when he said by Moyses and after by Esay that he wold giue to his people a prophet in whose mouth he would putte his word and that it should neuer depart froÌ„ the mouthe of the séede of his people and that his spirit also shuld neuer be separate from it M. I thinke that that prophecie which thou hast now alledged of Moyses ought to be proprely vnderstode of Iesus Christe P. Sainct Peter and S. Steuen doe also applie it to his person as to the head and prince of all prophetes and ministers whiche giueth power to the ministerie of all others But that exposition which is very certaine and very wel applied doth not let at al but that this passage of Moyses may be taken for the ordinarie ministerie which God hath established in his Church as the circumstaÌ„ce of the place dothe sufficiently declare it the which ministerie hath euer ben founded in Iesus Christ whiche is the foundation of the prophets and Apostles M. Doest thou vnderstand then by this gifte wherof thou hast nowe spoken the gift of prophecie P. We doe commonly call it by that name following the manner of speach which S. Paule hath vsed to that purpose in the first epistle to the Corinths For albeit that all the ministers of the word of God haue not all the gifts which the auncieÌ„t Prophets had which are specially called by that name yet notwithstaÌ„ding they are called Prophets in all the holie Scriptures in as much as they bée the mouth of the holie Ghost as wer the auncient prophets by whom God spake to his Church and doth set foorth to hir the same doctrine whiche he hath heretofore declared vnto hir by his aunciente prophets M. We may then say the same of the name of Apostle and Euangelist and of al other such lyke names and offices whiche appertayne to the ministerie of the Churche P. It is true For albeit that the name of apostle and Euangelist do import more thaÌ„ the name and office of a simple pastor and minister of the gospell yet for all that none may be a pastor and minister of the Gospell vnlesse he be also as an Apostle and an Euangelist in respecte of the doctrine whyche he beareth for the verie same reason for whiche he may also be called prophet as I haue euen nowe expounded How that the ministerie of the worde of God is perpetually necessarie to the Churche in this worlde M. I Do now well vnderstand the cause not only wherfore this gifte of prophecie is necessarie to the Churche but also for what cause it is necessary that it be perpetual in it P. Séeing that the perpetuall ministerie of the worde of God is necessarie this gift of prophecie is also necessarie forsomuche as without the same this ministerie can not subsiste and stande nor be ministerie of the Churche of Christ M. It then foloweth that euen as this ministery can not be without this gift of preaching euen so the Church can not be the Church of Christ without this ministerie no more than it may be without faith the whiche she can not obtayne but by the meane of the word of God set foorth by this ministerie P. God may wel inspire his faithe to his chosen by other meanes if it please him but seeing he hath ordeined this he doth it not ordinarily by any other neyther is it lawfull for vs to séeke for any other but must holde vs to this same wherevnto God hath bounds vs notwithstanding that it standeth alwaye in his libertie to communicate his giftes and graces as pleaseth him Of other giftes of God whiche are not so necessarie for the Church as the gift of preaching M. I Do now wel vnderstand this point but thou haste not yet giuen me example of the other guiftes of the Holie Ghoste the whiche be not so necessarie for the Churche as is the gifte of preaching And therfore also they be not perpetual in hir P. Thou hast amoÌ„g others the gift of tongs and the gift of miracles and suche lyke the whiche God gaue to his Churche but for a certayne tyme and to certayne persones as hée maye yet gyue them when it shall please him And when he hath giuen them he hathe yet done the same to the ende that hys gifts shuld serue to the ministerie of his worde to the ende it should be the better receyued and that the infidels shoulde be the more mightily vanquished the most weak ones the better fortified M. I do wel vnderstand it so P. And therfore Saint Paule speaking of these gifts exhorteth the faithfull to endeuour themselues and to trauayle rather for the gift of prophecie whiche comprehendeth the true vnderstanding of the Scriptures as more profitable and more necessarye to the Church than the others wherof we haue euen nowe spoken Howe the Lorde taketh the ministers of his Churche of his verie people and not of a strange people M. WHen thou diddest alledge the promise which god hath made to his Church of the perpetuall gift of preaching and of the ordinarie mynisterie whiche it pleased him to appointe in the same it séemeth to me that thou saydst that he hathe promised to put his worde into the mouthe of the very séede of the Churche by the which séed I vnderstand the children the membres of the same and of the people of God. P. Thou takest it verie well and therfore the Lord hath playnely sayde by Moyses that he will rayse vp out of the middest of his people those Prophets the whiche he will gyue vnto hir to teach hir to the ende that they shall not go foorthe of his Churche to séeke them Howe agréeth this then with that which thou hast heretofore sayde that the gifte of prophecie and suche like were as well communicate to infidells and reprobates as thou hast very well proued by testimonies and examples of the holy Scriptures P. That maketh
néedefull that they haue helpers with them whiche may be called censures or ancients of the church as they are called in the holy scriptures to helpe them in that that I haue said M. Which is the first of these two causes P. It is that the ministers are not ordinarily so many that they maye sée in euery place and on the other part all are not so carefull so diligent and so perfect to loke to all things as it were to be desired M. Which is the other cause P. It is that all be it they could doe it it is good that there be others of the Churche which may bée ioyned vnto them to giue to vnderstand that the Church in respect of the policie and discipline the Iesus Christ hath there appointed and of the gouernment which he hath giuen to men is not as a Monarchy or some other temporall lordship in the which certaine princes haue all absolute authoritie but it is an holy and frée communaltie which for that cause is called the communion of Saintes to the whych Iesus Chryst hath gyuen in generall and not to any one in particular all the power and authoritye that there is to vse for edification and not to destruction Of the true head of the Church and of the power giuen to the church by Iesus Christ to chose those vvhich haue publique office in the same hovv requisite it is that that order be there obserued M. BVt in taking it so it séemeth to me that there is no order at al but rather great confusion For if there be no certaine head euery man wil there bée a maister the one as great as the other P. It doth not so folow of that which I haue saide For first of all she is not without a head for so much as it hath Iesus Christ for hir head Afterward al be it that the power authoritie be giuen to the whole cōmunaltie of the faithfull as it is in the hands of the people in a popular estate the which mē haue aunciently called Dimocracie yet for al that it hindreth not at all but that the church by a cōmon consent may chose out of the body of this holy communaltie such certaine persons as may haue the special charge to exercise administer the publique offices which are ordeined of God in the same as they do in a frée citie in the which the choise of publique offices is made by the burgeses citizens of the same whiche are all of one very communaltie M. Thy meaning is then that all the authoritie and power of the rule and gouernement of the Church is giuen in generall to all the Churche and that therefore it belongeth to the same to choose according to the word of God those whome she knoweth to be most méete to exercise therein the publique offices and to whōe God hathe distributed the most of hys gifts to execute the same faithfully P. In all the time that the Church was wel ruled according to the worde of God and that she was not oppressed by tyrannie she euer vsed that order And therfore it is more than necessarie that she holde alway hir right hir power and authoritie such as she hath receiued of god to the end that there be none of the members of the same be they either ministers of the same or else the magistrates or the cōmō people that may take in hand any thinge in this spirituall rule gouernmēt of their owne authoritie but that euery one of the flocke content himselfe with the charge that shal be committed vnto him by lawful vocation Of the office as vvell of the ministers as of the other auncientes and Censures of the Church and of the regard that chiefly must be had vnto them M. SEing it is so shew me thē what is the office as wel of the ministers as of other censures and ancients which may be ioyned vnto them in this Ecclesiastique discipline P. It is first of all to sée carefully that the doctrine of the lord be not only truly set foorth in the Church but also that it be receyued with all honoure and reuerence and practised as it is méete M. It is then méete that they which haue the ouersight publique charge in the churche do watch not only ouer the people but also ouer the ministers P. But it is ouer the ministers chiefly that first héede must be taken for if their doctrine and life be not such as their office requireth they shal be a greater slaunder and a greater ruine to the whole Church than any other God shall be more dishonored in them than he shall in all the rest that be vnder theyr charge M. And who shal haue the superintendance ouer them considering that they be the chiefe gouernours and leaders which must leade and gouerne all the rest that are cōmitted vnto them P. If they must in déede watch ouer others and correct them they must chiefly looke vpon themselues according to the aduertisement whiche Saincte Paule giueth them and they must correct the faultes that bée among them by the discipline which they should haue togither M. But if they doe it not but doe beare the one with the other or if there be such faultes eyther in their doctrine or lyfe which deserue greater censures or in déede open rebuke what remedie is there for that P. Then muste the Ecclesiastique consistories whiche are ordeyned by and in the name of the whole Churche prouide for the same whervnto the other auncients and Censures of the Church do assist with the ministers to remedie all offences whiche may be eyther in the doctrine or lyfe of any man be he minister or other M. Shal not the coūcels prouide for that P. That is a later remedy whervnto men may haue recourse when necessitie requireth it prouided that they be lawfull M. Then muste the lyke be vnderstode of al the rest which are appointed in these Consistories as Censures and Senators and ecclesiasticall iudges P. Thou mayste well vnderstande that if they whiche are appointed to correcte others doe not first correct themselues amōg themselues they shal haue no great authoritie to correcte those whiche they ought to correcte neyther may they doe it without their greate shame and confusion and without giuyng great occasion of murmure slaunder and scattering of all the Churche M. And if they whiche haue speciall charge in the Churche doe bear the one with the other and be them selues the cause of slaunders and scattering of the same hath not then the whole Church together power to correct them and to prouyde for and remedie suche faultes P. Séeing that the power wherof we speake is giuen by Iesus Chryst to his whole Church who hath power to take it from hir May they take it from hir to whome shée hath giuen it M. No excepte they be tyrauntes P. Thou sayest truthe The .xxj. Dialogue is of brotherly correction of excōmunication of particular
if it be a worke whereby thy neyghboure receyueth any comforte or helpe in hys person it is then so muche the more profitable Wherefore albeit that the worke be not such as God requireth yet forsomuch as it serueth somewhat to the glory of God and to the edification of our neyboure God is so good that he will not suffer it to be vnrecompenced T. What recompence will he then giue him D. That whiche the worker requireth he desireth glory among men and his particular cōmoditie which things he doth often times receiue for his hire which extend no further than his life for he hathe no further regard at all T. By this accoumpte then thou wouldest conclude that it were better yet that a man should assist the worde of god and his Church and also the poore and that he should do such like works although that his harte were not throughly such as it ought to be rather thā to do nothing at all or to the contrary so that he do it not in any wise to the intente to dishonor God and of a determinate purpose or else rather to hurte his neyghbor than to profite him D. It is true for we haue in the holy Scriptures many examples whiche declare that God hath often times in this worlde done greate good to many that haue not had suche hartes as they ought to haue had bycause that their workes did serue somewhat to his glory and to the reléefe of his people In vvhat sorte the harte of man maye fulfill the lavve of God or no and may be condemned or absolued by the same vvithout the vvorks which god requireth of him in the same T. SEing that the worke which séemeth to be good cannot please God but so farre foorth as the hart from whence they do procéede doth please him and that the harte doth make the worke to be accepted or refused at his hande I do firste aske thée if GOD can contente him selfe without the worke with the harte alone The other is if the worke which of him selfe is euill may please him or else may be suffered by him when he that doth it doth it not for any euill purpose but doth it of force against his harte or else bicause he thinketh it not to be euill The thirde to know in déede if GOD do condemne the wicked thoughte although it be not put in execution and whether it doe as muche displease him as if the effect were ioyned with it D. As touching the firste it is sure that if God haue the harte of man he hath the whole therefore it cannot be but that the harte doth offer and presente vnto him the worke that he requireth of hym wherefore the worke may not be separated from the harte no more than the frute from the trée for euē so as the good trée neuer fayleth to bring foorthe hys frute in his due time and season so doth the good harte at all times and in all seasons that GOD requireth it if he do it not the cause is for that hée wanteth meane to do it and also power or else that he hath not a will to do it if he haue a will and haue no power and meanes to do it that wyll béeing good God dothe accepte and estéemeth it as well as if the facte were done The lyke dothe hée also if the wyll be wicked albeit that it haue not the power to put his wicked thought in execution Wherfore the wicked worke doth not only displease God but also the wicked will and affection in sorte that if it do procéede so farre that it is not long of hir that she doth not execute hir euill purpose and that there is nothing doth hinder it but want of power there is no doubte but that God accompteth the wickednesse done For that cause our Lord Iesus Christ and Sainte Iohn following his doctrine doth compare to a murtherer him that hateth hys brother and estéemeth him an adulterer that behouldeth an other mans wife coueting hir We must vnderstand the like of all other vices according to the interpretation that oure Lorde Iesus Christe himselfe and after him his Apostles gaue vs of the lawe of God but if the hart had the meane the power to do that whiche was commaunded him to do and hathe not only lefte it vndone but hath also not employed him selfe by al meanes possible to vse those occasions wherby he mought do them it is a certaine testimonie and an assured signe that it is not good and that there is no good will in it for if it were good that the will were such as it ought to be it should not be more desirous of any thing than to yeld vnto God that obedience honoure and seruice which is due vnto him and that he requireth of hym wherefore God cannot be pleased wyth such an hart for it is fayned and vntrue Hovve that men do glory in vayne of their good harte and of their faithe if their vvorkes beare not vvitnesse of it and for vvhat cause the iudgement shal be giuen by God according to theyr vvorks and vvhy the Prophets do so ernestly require them exhorting the people of God to repentaunce T. WE do then in vayne glory of the hart if the worke beare not good witnesse of the same D. Yea as well as of the faithe Wherefore we may well here saye with Saincte Iames shewe me thy harte and thy faith by thy workes for as the faith that is without works is not a true faith but onely a vayne and fayned faith and dead and a false shewe of faith hauing nothing of true faith sauing only the name without the effect no more doth the harte liue to God nor is dedicated vnto him that doth not declare himselfe by good works For the fire how litle soeuer it be cannot be without light without heate and at the least without some litle smoke for this cause in the manner of Gods iudgement which is set foorth to vs by our Lord Iesus Christ there is in manner no mention made but onely of works by the which euery man is iudged forsomuch as they shall beare witnesse of the harte and faith of euery man Likewise when the Prophets exhorte men to true repentaunce they doe euer prayse works and namely suche as do concerne our neyghboure forsomuche as hipocrisie may least be therein cloked and that mā doth declare by that whiche he doth concerning the commaundements of the second table and toward his neyghboure what harte he beareth toward God and in what reuerence he hath the commandements of the first table for it is an easie matter for a man to boast himselfe to haue a sound and perfecte harte towarde God and to make a shew by the obseruation of the outward ceremonies but whē he must in déede lay hande to the worke which is to say to the true charitie which is the ende and fulfilling of the lawe and to the workes
it must néedes be day and it can not be otherwise for such is his nature and therfore of necessitie he muste bring foorth suche an effecte of his owne nature without any constraynt or violence at all bicause that he hath that cause naturall in him selfe But there where constraynt is there is some force and vnolence that commeth from else where than from the thing that is enforced and constrayned as if a woman be violated by force she ought not to be accounted a whore in suche sorte as we doe accounte hir who willingly consenteth to the whore master we doe then sinne all necessarily and of necessitie in so muche as it is not possible that of our nature it shoulde doe otherwyse it beeing corrupted as it is and béeing not regenerate by the spirite of God and that by meane of the naturall corruption which sinne hath engendred in all mankinde And yet for al that none constraineth vs but onely our owne malice and wycked will which béeing wicked can applie it selfe to nothing but to euill Therefore it is not without cause saide thy perdition is of thy selfe O Israell but thy saluation is onely by me It dothe then followe that our wicked will dothe euill of necessitie for so muche as it is of a wicked nature that can doe none otherwise as we say that an euil trée doth necessarily bring foorth euill fruite bicause that his nature is suche For as it is written that which is borne of the fleshe is fleshe and that whiche is borne of the spirite is spirite But nowe the will should not be a will if it did not willingly and not by constraynt for will and constraint are contraries wherfore wil ceaseth where constraint hath place yea and it is not possible that will may be constrayned it may in déede be corrupted and chaunged from good into euill or else from euill to good Wherefore euen as a good will dothe necessarily that which is good bycause it can not otherwyse doe béeing good as the good trée of necessitie bringeth foorthe good fruite and yet doth she it not by constrainte but voluntarily euen so dothe the wicked will for so muche as it is wicked necessarilie the euill bicause that his nature is suche as can not otherwyse doe and yet dothe it not at all by constraynt but voluntarily for there is no force nor violence from any where else that dothe constrayne hir agaynst hir owne disposition or inclination but onely in so much as she hath in hir the spring and the cause from the which the euill which she dothe procéedeth Examples and similitudes for declaration of the difference that is put betweene Necessitie and Constraint T. I Can not yet throughly well vnderstand that difference D. I wil make the matter more playne vnto thée by examples and comparisons The fire doth necessarily warme and giue light bicause that it can not otherwise do in so muche as the nature of it is suche and yet is it not constrayned so to do The water on the contrary abiding in his natural doth refresh and make moyst By the like reason a liuing body hath breathing and respiration mouing and féeling and can not otherwise be On the contrary a dead body is depriued from all these things and may necessarily engender nothing but corruption and yet for all that is there no constraint neither in the one nor in the other onlesse we do cal the nature of any thing constraint T. For so much as in maner all these similitudes are giuen of things that haue no will shewe me some others more méete for our purpose D. I will so do We may not doubt but that God is necessarily good iuste wise holy almightie and perfecte for he can be none other nor do any thing but that which is godly iustly wisely and holily done and yet can he in nowise be constrained In like sorte the Angels for so much as they be Angels and doe continue still in that nature wherein they were created of God they can not necessarily doe any other thing but prayse God and serue to his glory for if they did the contrary they should be no more Angels such as they were created by God but they should be Diuels like vnto their felowes which are fallen from their first state And further if they did that which they do by constraint and not willingly thē should they haue no praise with God nor should be any more accepted than is the Deuill for the good which he is constrained to doe for so much as God dothe turne will he nill he his wicked will also his wicked workes making them to serue to his glory on the other side the Deuill being suche as he is now at this present fallen from the Angelicall state wherein he was created of God can necessarily doe nothing but euill and dishonour God for if he should doe otherwise he should be no more a Deuill and yet surely he doth not that which he doth of cōstraint but volūtarily For who should constraine him to do euill should God so doe who hath forbidden condemned it can doe nothing but that which is good it is very true that there is none other cōstraint but only of his owne wicked wil whiche hath as great delight in doing euill as that of the Angels of heauen hath in doing well But the like is not in the doing of the good that he doth for in that he doth nothing but by cōstraint and that whiche is alwaies euill in so much as it procéedeth frō him cā not be good but so farre forth as God through his power infinite goodnesse will he or will he not doth draw out goodnesse of it maketh it to serue to an other end thā to that whervnto the Deuill did pretēd T. I do now begin already to discerne more perfectly in this matter than I did before Of the free necessitie to do vvell that vvas in man before sinne and of the necessitie to doe euill vnconstrayned notvvithstanding into the vvhich he is fallen through the same and in vvhat meaning this vvord of necessitie ought to be taken vvhen it hath regard to good things D. WE may easily vnderstād by these exāples what we may iudge of mā cōcerning this matter wherof we doe now intreat For after that mā was created by God in so much as he was created of God good iust holy he did necessarily willingly all that wherfore God had created him For seing that God had created him good as he did all his other creatures it was naturall for him to do well continuing in the same being ioined to God hearing his voyce he coulde none otherwise do For in as much as his will was good he could not will nor yet do folowing that good will but that which was good but when he once gaue eare to the coūsel of the deuill chaūging both his will nature by folowing of him is
the cause of the imperfection that is in the sanctification ioyned to our person and of the vvorks vvhich proceede therof M. THou wilte then saye that this seconde kinde of sanctification is not only adherente to the person of Iesus Christe and that it is not only ours by imputation as is the firste but that it is also adherente to our flesh and nature as a new qualitie which Iesus Christ hath put into vs by his holy spirite whiche maketh our flesh holy in it selfe to do afterwardes holy workes P. It is euen so M. Thou wilte then say also that the holy works whiche men do being so sanctified be the frutes of the same sanctification P. It is euen so but bycause there remayneth continually muche of oure naturall corruption in our fleshe whylest we are in thys worlde there can procéede from vs no worke so hollye but that it is founde very foule and farre off from that perfect holynesse whiche God requireth of vs in all our works M. What wilte thou conclude by that P. That our workes be so farre off from worthynesse to be presented for satisfaction and to obteine saluation by thē be they neuer so holy that if he shoulde iudge of them according to the rigoure of his iudgemente he shoulde fynde nothing therein but matter of condemnation M. Thou maist not denie for all that but the good holy works are very agréeable vnto him P. If it were otherwise they ought not to be done but thou must note herein that they be not acceptable vnto him as cause of our saluation but as testimonie of the same M. Howe vnderstandest thou that they be testimonies of our saluation P. In that that they testifie that Iesus Christe is in vs and that he there worketh by his holy spirite Wherefore it foloweth that we be iustified and sanctified by the iustice and sanctification of Iesus Christ the which God beholdeth and for the regarde thereof he doth beare with the imperfection that yet remayneth in vs and doth pardon vs that wherin we do yet dayly offend him Of the meanes that vve haue tovvard God in recompence of the imperfections vvhich alwayes dvvell in vs. M. IT séemeth vnto me that thou wilte saye in effecte by all this discourse which thou hast made that what regeneration and sanctification soeuer there be in our fleshe and nature we are not yet for all that so pure nor so perfecte but that we must haue continuall recourse to the iustice and sanctification of Iesus Christ which is ours not as a qualitie of iustice and sanctitie sticking and ioined to our person but only for that that it is allowed and attributed vnto vs as though it were our owne proper P. So it is and therefore Iesus Chryste hath saide to the same effecte that he that was alredy washed had yet néede to wash his feete M. What meaneth he by that manner of speach P. That albeit that we be iustified alredy sanctified and purified of our sins by the faith that we haue in him thorough his worde yet for all that for so muche as there resteth in vs alwayes certaine filthynesse and corruption whyche proceedeth of oure corrupted nature whiche is not yet thoroughlye well renued and refourmed to the image of GOD we haue alwayes néede to goe to washe and clense vs of oure filthynesse in the true fountayne of all puritie iustice and sanctification whiche is opened to vs in Iesus Chryst for wée haue no remission of anye one sinne of ours but onely in him by the meanes of the iustification that we haue by Faithe in him THE FIFTHE dialogue is of the faith in God. Of the true foundation of Faith of the difference that it maketh betweene the Christian religion and all other religions MATHEVV SEing it is so that man receyueth of God all these great goodnesses whereof thou hast made mention by the meane of the onely faithe in Iesus Christe it followeth then according to thy saying that Iesus Christ is the true foūdation of the same P. It is not to be doubted For we cannot lay hold vpon the mercie of God nor be assured that he is become our louing and merciful father but only in Iesus Christ and by Iesus Christe his beloued sonne M. Then if it bée so it followeth that Man hathe no true faythe in GOD but that whereby man dothe imbrace hym in Iesus Christ when he beléeueth in him P. It is very true and therefore that faith is the very point whiche discerneth the christian Religion from all others and the Christians from all other people M. But séeing that the fayth is in the heart wherby man beléeueth to iustification how can it distinguishe the religions P. I do not here speake proprely of the distinction whiche is made by the outwarde confession whiche men make but of that whiche lyeth in the true foundation and in the propre substance of the religion which hath his only foundation in God and in his word albeit that vnder the name of the faith I comprehend also the confession of the same M. Doest thou meane that all other religions which are not grounded vppon the faithe in Iesus Christe are no true religions but false P. If religion maye be religion withoute hauing a God which is honoured therby they may be accompted for religions and not otherwise M. Why sayst thou so P. Forsomuche as there is no true God but only he whiche hath shewed himselfe in Iesus Christ no more can he also be knowen nor honoured as God but in Iesus Christ How that all religion is without God sauing the Christian religion M. IF that be true the Iewes the Turkes and all other men which beleue not in Iesus Chryste nor in the Gospel haue then no God. P. No in déede but only by imagination M. Why sayst thou so P. Forsomuch as God can be none other than he is M. I vnderstand it wel but what wilt thou conclude thereof P. That séeing that God can not be knowne suche as he is but in Iesus Chryste who soeuer doth not acknowledge him in Iesus Chryste knoweth hym not at all Wherfore he forgeth to himself an other God than the true God. M. In what sorte doth he forge him P. In so muche as he maketh and pourtraiteth God not suche an one as he is in déed but such as he hath béen able to imagine hym in his brayne and vnderstandyng M. Thou then callest other gods and strāge gods the imaginations that men do cōceiue of God in their vnderstāding wherby they do imagine and estéeme him other thā he is and did manifest him selfe in his sonne Iesus Chryste and in his woorde Pe. What thinkest thou then that the strange gods are For séeing ther is but one true God only it followeth then very wel that al the others whiche men call gods are not gods at all but onely by the imagination of men