Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	bear_v	end_n	truth_n	1,796	5	6.9490	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A44111	An answer to several material passages in a book published some time since by W.P. entituled, A brief examination and state of liberty spiritual, both with respect to persons in their private capacity, and in their church-society and communion, &c. by J.H.	Hogg, John, fl. 1675-1698.	1691 (1691)	Wing H2368; ESTC R13730	50,925	60

obliging And where this is not freely granted at least among a People that acknowledge the Spirit of Truth to be the only guide into all Truth there the Government of Christ is either directly or indirectly opposed or hindered for admit of one Error or Uncertainty and more will follow an Uncertainty admitted for the Truth in this case standing in the nature of a Lie But now to shew that this part of his Answer which seems to affirm the Question is so far from being a direct and full Answer as 't is not worthy of that name being of no use or service with respect to the Controversie the end for which he pleads his great concern to write For observe though 't is true in the sense he grants that those that are perfectly free from all bad and perfectly free to all good may safely be left to their freedom to act in the things of God as they are perswaded Yet forasmuch as he neither hath nor we believe can give us any certain or undoubted Rule how to know who these are that are so to be left all that he hath said by way of affirming this great and weighty Question is worth nothing for as it is altogether unintelligible 't is every way impracticable Well then if any certain Rule can be given to know who may be left to their freedom as above let us have it and by the contrary Rule we shall know who may not be so left But if no such Rule can be given it must follow all must be left free or none must be left If none must be left then must an outward Rule be set up to govern all and that would make us like Israel that rejected God's Government to be like other Nations But if all must be left free to act in the things of God as they are perswaded let all this Clamour cease that we may be quiet and live like Christians in the fellowship of the Gospel There is but one Objection and that is that this is to give liberty to evil which we may speak to in another place and in the mean time that is far from our thoughts as the Author said it ought not to be named among Saints But now to the latter part of his Answer where he makes a flourish as if he would tell us who were not to be left to their freedom that so he might give some thing like an Answer to the whole Question in which if he succeeds no better than he has done above we believe there is none will be better or wiser for what he has done But to the matter he tells us if thou plead'st thy freedom against such requisite things thy freedom is naught dark perverse and out of the Truth c. This is still to the same tune here is a Judge implied but not set forth 't is not the Spirit of Truth but some outward thing whatever it is But since we know not where he will fix to say no more 't is dark to be sure To help it all we can we shall thus far grant there are some outward things so far essential to true Religion as those that do contrary to them may be detected of Error but if it had been any of those things that had been done contrary too we believe they would not have been omitted here because if certain they would have greatly advantaged this Discourse there being much want of certainty in it But this not being done and things laid down in a general way in which often deceit or cunning lurks we can do no less than judge that the things suggested as the ground of Difference are neither such Principles nor Practices as have been from our beginning nor yet such things as can be truly said to be essential to true Religion and if not essential things observe it nor yet such things as have been from our beginning they can at best be but circumstantial or if you will ceremonial or shadowy things and such things at best are but accidentally good that is as Persons are perswaded of them and what is but accidentally good may on the contrary be accidentally not good and that is as persons are disatisfied with them And if they prove such things as those we believe they concern only that outward Court which God hath left unmeasured on purpose that Christians might never differ about them and if such things as we are fit to take for granted we would gladly know how they can be brought in and made terms of Communion against the mind of other of the same perswasion while we have run down with all our power the like in others What was they wrong there and can they be right here that 's strange according to truth But in the likeness of truth it s not strange it being commonly found that Persons plead for or against things in others which they will neither give nor take themselves Besides it 's seen it 's about such things that the most of Christians have differed denying Communion to one another on some specious pretence or other forgetting to give what they themselves desired to receive And thus hath poor Man been deceived all along by the Devil in the likeness of Truth But to proceed that the Question above is weighty we have noted and that the Answer is evasive and nothing to the purpose we have shewed The Reason wherefore it was evaded remains to be inquired into according to our promise and that we conceive still as above must either be because our Author wanted Ability or else his Cause was not good and so could not bear the answering it according to truth Not the first we are satisfied for those many Tracts wrote by him when directed to a good end do abundantly shew his Ability and skill in things of this kind yea to that exactness that without flattery he might have been compared to the Men of Benjamin that could hit their Mark to an hairs breadth Thus it could not be the want of Ability therefore we are satisfied it was the want of Truth in the design carried on Opinion or the likeness of Truth was endeavoured to be obtruded and set up instead of Truth betwixt which and Truth there is as much difference in the ground nay more than betwixt the shadow and the substance and yet there is that likeness in outward appearance or else it could not be called the Mystery of Iniquity by which all are and have been deceived to their hurt but only such who are sincere to God and cannot sit down before they know their Names writ in the Lamb's Book of Life This is that only which can fully satisfie the Hungry and the Thirsty Soul So that though Men have begun well yet if they travel not for the end they must miscarry for if the Travel cease in any state short of the Rest let former Openings and Experiences bin what they will as that work is stopped by the Enemy so are they

or to apply them to avoid the Cross of Christ in our selves is extreamly evil but to apply them against what we believe is wrong and imposed let who will be concerned may be a true Application for the like cause will have the like effect where-ever it appears But he proceeds and saith the Doctrin is true but not exclusively of all External Counsel c. We say so too for we are for agreeing with him as far as we can and therefore that we may continue we must mind him there is a vast difference betwixt excluding all External Counsel and receiving all for Counsel that comes from this or that Man or from this or that Assembly and we are sure we cannot find that he makes any good provision in his Book to the contrary by allowing Conviction to preceed Conformity but he saith such sayings as this that I must mind the Spirit of God in myself c. are false in Application where Men are allowed observe to have had the fear of God and mind of his Spirit and are not proved to have acted in their own Wills c. Answer We did concur above as far as we could but now we must dissent it is not therefore false in Application for that were to say because some have had the fear of God and mind of his Spirit therefore such have it now or always Again because some are not proved to have acted in their own wills therefore such have acted in the will of God and therefore we must depend on such at all times in what they direct because we believed that once they was right O sad Argument How is it possible that we should believe his cause good when we are sure those are unsound Arguments and are also certain the Truth stands in no need of what is untrue to defend it much less can make use of what is false nay that belong to what is wrong or at best to what is but like Truth and to this purpose is the whole Page nay the whole Book for instead of proving things he takes for granted that this Church must be right and all she differs with must be wrong but the mischief is we know not certainly what he means by this Church and therefore desires she may be set forth fairly and in the mean time we believe he can no more prove her infallible as directed to Men than he can make this Argument good that because some had the fear of God as above therefore such have it now wherein there is no Evidence no Certainty to depend on for such may have had the fear of God and mind of his Spirit and for all that may now be without it as well as himself who used to have good Arguments but now wants them Again every Fact must be committed before proved therefore they may have acted in their own will and not yet fully proved but what proof would he have and we will endeavour to provide in the mean time can any indifferent Man think that all this Smoak can be without Fire What one part all right and t'other all wrong let them think so that can we cannot and not only so but if we have allowed any to have had the fear of God and mind of his Spirit in things offered to us if that allowance was true observe it was because we had a divine sense rellish and taste of it in our own Hearts was not this all the true Evidence we had or could have that such was right And are we to go any further for a proof that such are wrong then when the same Evidence comes not along with them Nay instead of that Evidence what we have is either against the things or manner of bringing them in must not we stand or fall here or otherwise put our own Eyes out on purpose to be led and guided by others and that before we are either perswaded that their sight is good or deputed to lead us Page 11. he saith The Enemy is at work to scatter the mind of Friends by those loose Pleas as leave me to my freedom and to the Grace of God in my self c. For he saith The plain Consequence is to go from ancient Principles and Practices as there set down and to set measure against measure as in Page 12. which he saith is Confusion it self Babel indeed this is the very Rock he saith both Professor and Prophane would long since have run us upon that a way is hereby opened to all the World Libertines to plead the light within for their Excesses c. which he saith grieveth God's Spirit and was severely reproved by our Friends in the beginning and is still reproved by them that keep their Habitation c. Answer The ground of this great noise and clamour was not a going from ancient Principles or Practices but your bringing in new things and pressing them to dissatisfaction against which it was alledged by those dissatisfied as the Spirit of Truth was not only allowed but was truly the only guide into all Truth they ought to be left to the Grace of God in this matter and not pressed to receive circumstantial or shadowy things contrary to their freedom and satisfaction here such pleaded Conscience against Imposition Now will you for this criminate such with going into what is evil or immoral or at least with designing such things is not this to judge before the time What 's this but first to suspect your Brethren of evil and then kill them in a sense to prevent it a practice always judged by us in others as evil and unrighteous and therefore every appearance of it ought to be avoided in our selves do such or did they meet together And then as a Church agree what Rules should be observed by you and might not they do that as well as you For if Church Authority may be pleaded in the case a few may be a Church as well as many for 't is not the greatness of the number in a Scripture sense but the qualifications of the Persons that makes a true Church But if nothing that is simply evil or immoral can be charged upon your Brethren nor yet any excess in imposing new things upon you will you to make way for Lordship and Dominion over your Brethren joyn with the prophane and Professors against them and the Truth or at least against those Testimonies to it For when he tells us That this was the very Rock Professors and Prophane would have run us upon namely that hereby a way was opened to all the Worlds Libertines to plead the Light within for their excesses either he makes some Friends among which is himself to be one with Professors against the light within or otherwise doth not he joyn what is unequal together For it is plain that the Professors tho' they owned the light within and Spirit of God in a sense yet they denied it was a sufficient Rule to be relied upon to guide into