Tyndale That the pope and his spirites be not the chyrche maye this wyse be proued More Lo before in the tytle he made hys questyon of the pope and hys secte whyche questyon as I haue shewed you he framed farre from the mater and syth those people whych Tyndale calleth y e popys secte by whych name he meneth all that professe the comon catholyke fayth be all the nacyons chrystened excepte a few late fallen to Luther wyclyffe frere Huskyn and zuynglius how fyttly he vseth his termes in callynge all the body a secte whyche he myghte as well call a scysme for bothe sygnyfye a cuttyng of from the hole chyrche and then as well he maye and so doth he soone after call the heretykes y â— chyrche and therin calleth he bothe twayne as properly as yf he wolde cut of a cantell or a gobbet from an hole lofe and then call the cantell a lofe and the lofe a cantell But where as before in the tytle he made as I saye hys questyon of the pope and hys secte here he turneth it into the pope and hys spyrytes In whyche excepte he call spyrytes in mocke scorne all chrysten nacyons besydes those corners that professe them selfe for heretykes he muste nedes mene here by hys scornefull name of spyrytes onely the pope and the spyrytualtye and then goeth he yet mych forther fro me wyth whom he sholde cope For I call euer the chyrche whyche hys parte is here to impugne not the spyrytualtye onely but the hole corps and body of spyrytuall and temporall to And Tyndale very well woteth that the spyrytualtye so farforth doth accompte not them selfe alone but the temporaltye and them selfe to gether for the catholyke chyrch that there is not so pore a frere but he professyth it almost in euery sermone In whyche when he exhorteth hys audyence to praye for the chyrche he sayth not ye shall praye for the spyrytualtye alone but ye shall saythe he praye for the thre estates of holy chyrche that is to wytte the spyrytualty the temporalty and the sowles that be in purgatory For though they be departed out of our coÌ„pany yet them compte we styll for viagers and pylgrymmes in the same pylgrymage that we be towarde the same place of rest and welth that we walke tyll they be passed ones all the payne of theyr iournaye and entred into the blesse of heuen Nowe it is a greate shame for Tyndale to flye fro the poynte as he dothe in a mater so playne and open that euery chylde maye se how lothe he is to comme nere and cope But Tyndale hath all redy ryden so many shrewed courses in whyche he hath hadde suche buffettes that he hath almoste broken hys horses backe and hys owne to that now neyther is there bere nor heretyke more lothe to come to the stake then Tyndale to come nere the tylte And therfore drawynge a syde and flyttynge from the chyrche that is to wytte frome the hole multytude of all chrysten nacyons spyrytuall and temporall bothe whiche is the tylte by whyche he hath to ronne he standythe styll at the tyltes ende tymperynge and temperynge aboute his harneys and wyll no forther then the spyrytualtye but putteth of hys helmet and doeth on a folys hode and from iustynge falleth to iestynge to do the people pleasure and dreue awaye the mater wyth makynge of mockes and mowes For now lo shall we peruse hys proues Lo thys wyse reason he bryngeth in the fyrste Tyndale That the pope and his spyrytes be not the chyrche maye thyâ— wyâ—e be prâ—ued He that hath no fayth to be saued thorow Cryste is not of Crystes chyrche The pope â—â—â—eueth not to be saued thorowe Cryste For he teacheth to truste in holy workes for the remysâ—yon of synnes and saâ—uacyâ—n as in the workes of penaunce enioyned in vowes in pylgrymage in châ—styte in other mennes prayers and holy lyuynge in freres and freres cotes in sayntes merytes And the sygnyficacyons put out he teacheth to byleue in the dedes of the ceremonyes and of the sacramente ordeyned at the begynnynge to preache vnto vs and to do vs seruyce and not that we sholde beleue in them and serue them And a thousande suche superstycyâ—usnesse setteth he before vs in stede of Cryste to byleue in neyther Cryste nor goddes worde neyther honourable to god nor seruysable vnto our neyghbour nor profytable vn to our selues for the tamyng of the flesshe whiche all are the denyenge of Crystes blode More Some man wolde here peraduenture saye to Tyndale that he playeth in thys poynte the very folysshe dysour for the faute of the man to rayle vpon the offyce consyderyng that all be it there haue popes bene that haue euyll played theyr partes yet haue there ben popes agayne ryghte holy men sayntes and martyrs to and therfore in iestynge thus vppon a good offyce for an euyll offycer he canne lacke no mater of raylynge but maye runne out in hys rybaldry at large and saye that all the hole worlde muste leue of all maner of offyces and neyther haue pope emperour kynge counsaylour mayre shyryffe nor alderman to gouerne or rule the comons nor yet any man in hys owne howse stewarde cater pantler butler or cooke For among all these offyces there can be founden none that hath not had ere thys many an yll man in the rome Therfore wolde some man thynke I saye that Tyndals raylynge here vppon the pope were all ronne out of reason though that all the thynges whyche he layeth here to hys charge were in dede as euyll as Tyndale wolde haue them taken But surely syth the man hath fawtes inough besyde I wyll my selfe defende hym well in thys For thys wyll I well make good in his byhalfe that yf the fawtes for whyche he rayleth here vpon the pope be thynges noughte in dede and worthy to be rebuked then maye he well and lawfully ryally ieste and rayle vppon the hole pedegre of popes saynt Peter hym selfe and all For surely the thynges for y e techynge wherof Tyndale rebuketh here the pope hath euer ben the doctryne of popes patriarches prophetes apostles and our sauyour hym selfe and all For fyrste he proueth vs that the pope byleueth not to be saued thorow Christ bycause he techeth to truste in holy workes for remyssyon of synnes and saluacyoÌ„ Is not here a peryllous lesson trow ye namely so taught as the chyrch techeth it that no good work can be done wythout helpe of goddes grace nor no good worke of man worthy the rewarde of heuen but by the lyberall goodnesse of god nor yet sholde haue suche a pryce sette vppon it saue thorowe the merytes of Crystes bytter passyon and that yet in all our dedes we be so vnperfyt y t eche man hath good cause to fere for hys owne parte leste his beste be badde I wolde wene that good workes were not so dedely poyson but takynge not to myche at onys for cloyenge of the stomake no more
marke alone shal be sufficieÌ„t to dyscerne know the chyrch now for the trew part and Tyndale and Luther and all theyr sectes for the very playne false For alâ—e it that Luther in the begynnynge professed in hys wrytynge that he wolde stande for the profe of hys doctryne vnto the tryall of those olde holy doctours and prophetes of euery age wenynge that men for the delyght of the newe schole maters neglected the olde holy doctours and lysted not to loke vppon them yet when he sawe hym selfe deceyued hys deuelysh doctryne by the wrytyng of y â— old holy sayntes of euery age brought out on euery syde vtterly throwen downe ouer whelmed then began he to chauÌ„ge his tale and sware from them set theyr authoryte clere at noughte and wrote that he cared not for tene Austayns nor for an hundred Hieroms nor for as many saynt Cypryanys For he sayd he was sure that he had hys doctryne from heuyn and that the scrypture what so euer all they sayed was playne and clere for hym And thus though some of these folke be glad to catche a patche of an olde sayntes sayenge somtyme yf they may mangle it and make it seme to serue any thynge for them yet maye ye clerely perceyue by theyr mayster Martyn Luther hym self that they can not say nay them selfe but that the consent of the olde holy sayntes is wyth the catholyke chyrche playne agaynste theyr deuelysh doctryne And thys poynt them selfe so clerely perceyue to be perceyued and knowen that they begyn to make in a maner mockes opeÌ„ly and gyue the people counsayle to gyue lytle credence to the olde holy sayntes wrytynges they scoffe at them that agaynste suche heresyes alledge them and in thys maner they â—este and saye in theyr sermons men laye forth now a dayes vnto you for the profe of theyr doctryne the olde sayntes and call them fathers but we laye for our doctryne the Euangelistes and apostles and Chryste hym selfe and these be graundfathers And therfore as they cry vnto you fathers fathers we crye vnto you grauÌ„dfathers graundefathers whyche are myche more to be byleued theÌ„ those fathers Here is lo a goodly false folysshe fallace to begyle the poore vnlerned people wyth turnyng theyr myndes from the poynt that is in questyon and make them gase muse vppon an other thynge and wene that the clergye wolde haue them thynke that the old holy doctours were more to be byleued then Chryste and hys apostles them selfe where as in dede the questyon standeth in thys whyther the olde holy doctours and sayntes whome we call the fathers â—e better to be byleued in the construccyon and the vnderstandynge of Chryste and hys apostles and the olde prophetes to whom we be coÌ„tent that these men call grauÌ„dfathers and great grauÌ„dfathers to or els these yong new naughty nephews that make them selfe graciouâ—e godly and wyse y t they can tell all thynge from afore the woâ—lde was wrought theyr fathers so gracelesse so folysh that they neyther had grace lernynge nor wyt to perceyue any thyng at all what y â— wrytyng of theyr grauÌ„dfathers ment Also that these folkes doctryne can not agre wyth the olde holy doctours appereth playn by thys that these mâ—n teche renew the self same old roten heresyes whych those holy doctours by theyr full consent agremeâ—t coÌ„dempnedâ— both in great assembled couÌ„sayls by theyr owne bokes seuerally made agaynst theÌ„ as agaynst theyr hâ—râ—siâ—s y â— theâ— now teche agaynst fre wyll agaynst presthed agâ—â—nste penauÌ„ce agaynst y â— other sacrameÌ„tê agaynt vowes agaynst holy dayes fastynge dayes specyally the â—ent agaynst generall counsayls agaynste the catholyke chyrche and many an other abomynable heresy besyde Of this coÌ„sent of the holy doctours sayntes agaynste theyr heresyes cometh this enuy hatred that these heretykes bere vnto theÌ„ all agayn so great that lest men shold bycause they be sayntes haue theyr doctryne the more in reuerence estymacyoÌ„ they haue deuysed a new heresâ— wherwith they wolde make men byleue that there were none of them all yet in heuen And lest theyr malice enuy toward them shold appere the cause also wherfoâ—e they bere iâ—â—f they shold so saye be no mo sayntes but those y â— were wryters doctours of the chyrch they let not to saye the same vtterly of all the remanauÌ„t our blessed lady all y â— excepte our sauyour hym selfe there is none yet in heuen at allâ— neyther in body nor soule And lest men myght thynke that yf there were purgatory some went frome thense to heuyn amonge that is one of the causes why they put that there is no purgatory neyther Then syth they se that yf goâ— gyue yet before domys day vnto no man rewarde blysse for his fayth good lyfe it were hard to thynke that beyng so lyberall good and mercyfull as he is he wolde be more prone to punysshe then to reward for theyr euyll dedes or infydelyte before that day send men into payne therfore tyll domys day they wolde haue the worlde byleue there were none hell neyther for any soule of man And then leste they sholde be dreueÌ„ to confesse that theâ— byleue the thynge whyche yf they durst for shame shewe I wene they byleue in dede wyll hereafter come forth withall yf they may gete onys theyr other heresyes in mennes hartes fastely fyrste confermed leste they sholde before I saye be dreuen to confesse that they byleue the soule to be mortall and vtterly dye wyth the body they saye for the whyle that vntyll domes daye they lye styll all and slepe as Luther wryteth playnely in a sermone vppon the gospell of the ryche gloton and Lazare And therfore yf we tell theym of that story of Abraam Diues Lazarus the twayn in reste and welthe the thyrd in fyre and flame the storye that Cryste telleth hym selfe they call it but a parable and almost make a potte at it Then all apparycyons they mocke at and all the myracles they blaspheme and say the deuyll doth all And thus whyle thaffeccyon of these heretykes to the olde heresyes maketh them to declyne from the olde holy doctours that euer condempned those heresyes and agaynste theyr exposycyons construe the scrypture wronge the deuyll hathe dreuen them downe myche ferther and made theym fall to blasphemye agaynste goddes sayntes and hys myracles and gyue the honour of goddes great workes vnto the deuyll as the very wurst sorte of the Iewys dyd and vnto all theyr olde heresyes to lynke an whole chayne of newe suche as the worste and the moste shamelesse sorte of heretykes that euer were of olde wolde haue ben yet ashamed to thynke vppon If Tyndale denye that hym selfe and all theyr sectes be agaynst all the olde holy doctours and all the olde holy doctours agaynste them he can not saye naye but that besyde the abomynable weddynge of frerys and nonnes Luther confesseth
The second parte of the coÌ„futacion of Tyndals answere In whyche is also confuted the chyrche that Tyndale deuyseth And the chyrche also that frere Barns deuyseth Made by syr Thâ—mas More knyght ¶ Prentyd at London By wyllyam Rastell 1533 CVM PRIVILEGIO ¶ The fourth boke ¶ whyther the chyrche can erre Tyndale THere is a nother question whyther the chyrche maye erre Whyche yf ye vnderstande of the pope and hys generacyon is verely as harde a questyon as to aske whyther he that hath bothe hys eyes out be blynde or no or whyther it be possible for hym that hath one legge shorter then a nother to halte More WHo wolde not nowe wene that thys man had a playne clere open cause and easy to defende when that euyn in y â— begynnyng in so few wordes he concludeth all the mater at onys and that wyth ensamples so playne and euydent that euery man muste nedys agree them to be trewâ— But when ye shall agayne se that hys ensamples are no more lyghtsome then vâ—lyke the mater that he resembleth them vnto and that he eyther of wylynesse wyll not or for lacke of wytte can not perceyue and se the poynt that he shulde towche then shall euery wyse man well perceyue and se that hys solempne shewe of suche confydence in hys euyll cause is nothynge but a playne proclamacyon made by hys owne mouth of hys owne rebuke and shame For here wolde I wytte what thynge Tyndale meaneth by the pope and popys generacyon If he meane hys carnall kynredde or the pope and his cardynallys eyther he then wynketh of wylynesse and wyll not se the marke For he knoweth very well y â— neyther of these is the thyng that we call the chyrche when we speke of the catholyke chyrche of Cryste that can not erre If he meane by the pope and hys generacyon all the crystens nacyons not beynge cut of nor caste out for theyr obstynate malyce nor of wylfulnesse departyng out by sedycyouse scysmes then seeth he y â— marke at the leste wyse But then whyle he sayth that all these nacyons maye and hath all thys .viii. hundred yere so entyerly fallen in to heresyes and dampnable errours that by all thys .viii. hundred yeres laste passed vnto Luthers dayes nor yet vnto thys daye neyther there hath ben no one knowen congregacyon any where wherin y â— professynge of the very ryght catholyke fayth of Cryst hath bene so surely kepte that yt myghte there be surely lerned and knowen then I saye Tyndale ys as blynde as he that lacketh bothe hys eyes in that he seeth not that by thys waye he maketh our sauyoure Cryste that is very trewth to saye very false where he sayth I am wyth you to the ende of the worlde wolde make hym farre ouerseen where he commaunded that who so wolde not here the chyrche shulde be reputed and taken as Paynyms and Publicans and in many a playn texte of scrypture mo as I haue before shewed as well in my dyaloge as myne other thre formar bokes of this present worke and yet hereafter shall forther Moreouer yf Tyndale saye that all thys knowen corps of crystendome haue all these .viii. hundred yere ben in a wronge bylyefe where hath ben all thys whyle the ryght congregacyon of Tyndals chyrche that hath hâ—â— the trewe bylyefe And lette hym tell vs then whyche congregacyon it was or where any suche is yet of whom we maye surely lerne the trewe fayth and trewe vertues If he saye that it hath ben amonge these and was in thys chyrche but not of thys chyrch but they haue lurked there a few faythfull folke amonge the greate many multytude of the faythlesse and haue euer bene to the worlde and outwarde syghte of man vnknowen not so mych knowen as one of them to another but yet very well knowen to god to thys besydes that yf they haue lyen all thys whyle lurkynge therin they haue be then idolatres by theyr owne iudgemente in image seruyce and prayeng to sayntes yf Tyndals doctryne be the trewe faythe and starke ypocrytes in beynge of one bylyefe in theyr hartes and pretendyng another both in theyr wordes and dedes and besyde dyuerse other inuyncyble reasons wyth which I haue all redy reproued that fonde opynyoÌ„ in the seconde boke of my dyaloge where vnto Tyndale hath made so bare answere that it hadde ben more wysedome for hym to haue lette it all alone and medle nothynge therwyth as euery chylde almoste maye well perceyue that lyste to loke on them bothe and aduysedly compare them togyder as I shall my selfe set it forth vnto them when god shall after other thynges done gyue me tyme to come therto and besyde dyuers other argumentes euydent and playne whyche I partely haue partely shall alledge and brynge forth in thys present work this one can he neuer auoyde whyle he lyueth that god had then lefte euery man perplexed in dowte and out of certaynte what waye he myghte surely take and cleue vnto eyther in the doctryne of fayth or knowlege of vertuose lyuynge For yf he saye that we nede no knowen company but euery man maye rede the scrypture hym selfe euery man he woteth well can not rede nor euery man vnderstand it though he haue it in hys owne tonge but by the redynge wythout a reder maye soone fall into the dampnable errour of Arrius Heluidius and many a nother heretyke mo whyche of the scrypture thorow theyr owne pryde toke occasyon of theyr heresyes If he then saye that of that vnknowen congregacyon we maye haue a trew reder where shall I seke hym and wherby shall I knowe hym yf I happen on hym howe shall I be sure For in thys great knowen congregacyon we be saufe agaynste all suche parell For we be all agreed vppon the necessarye artycles of the fayth And yf any wolde preche and teche the contrary as he that wold percase teche that confessyon is not necessarye and that penaunce nedeth not and that of the .vii. sacramentes .v. serue of nought and the syxte of almost as lytell and that of the seuenth all crysten nacyons be and all thys .xv. hundred yere haue ben in a very damnable erroure he that thus wolde preache and teche suche habomynable heresyes as nowe Tyndale doth he maye be soone controlled accused and corrected excepte he ronne awaye as Tyndale doeth And wherby can we be sure that hys techynge whyche ys accusyd ys false and theyrs trewe that correcte hym but by that we be sure that the comen fayth of the catholyke chyrch is trewe and that the catholyke knowen chyrche can not erre in that fayth whych from hande to hande hath ben taken kepte from Crystes dayes and hys apostles hytherto whyche fayth muste nedes be trewe by Crystes promyse made vnto hys apostles as teachers of hys chyrche and not for them selfe but for hys chyrche that is to wytte the fayth that saynte Peter professed shulde not fayle and that god
heuen whyther wolde Tyndale aduyse them thus whyche yf he dyd then sholde he teche them that mannys endeuoure towarde fayth is not a thynge to be mocked as hym selfe mocketh it now but that mannes own wyll doth somwhat more towarde it then doth the chylde to the bygettynge of hys owne father Or ellys wolde Tyndale forbydde them all suche thynges in any wyse tell them that theyr owne endeuoure wolde rather hynder and make theym ascrybe the fayth that is y e gyfte of god vnto the meryte goodnes of theyr owne wyll theyr owne towardenesse theyr owne prayours theyr owne coÌ„tynence almoyse dede fastynge and all theyr other endeuoure All whyche thynges yf Tyndale take for nought or peryllouse then is it lykely that he wolde of consequence aduyce those dyscyples of hys to be well ware of all suche thynges do none of theÌ„ in no wyse for the counsayle to such thynges coulde come but of betle blynde flesshely reason And therfore Tyndales dyscyples towarde the gettyng of the fayth to the entent they shulde take therof no parte vnto theyr owne prayse but gyue the hole glory to god sholde I saye by hys aduyse vse none endeuoure at all nor do no thynge nor saye no thynge nor thynke no thynge but sytte euen styll sadly and gape by daye agaynste the sonne by nyght agaynste the mone tyll eyther some blynde betle or some holy humble bee come flye in at theyr mouthes and buzze in to theyr brestes an vnholsome hepe of flye blowen errours and motthe eten heresyes And thus good chrysten readers the reason that Tyndale maketh vs agaynste the endeuoure of man towarde the attaynynge of fayth whyche endeuoure he mocketh calleth it a counsayle of betle blynde reason bycause fayth is the gyfte of god I dowte not I saye but that hys reason is suche that a man that were betle blynde in dede may perceyue well inough that Tyndale for lacke of good endeuoure hath had of the gyfte of god lytell wytte and lesse grace in makynge of that feble and vnlawfull reason Tyndals other reason agaynst the good endeuour of mannes wyll is thys Tyndale My wyt muste shewe me a trewe cause or an apparent cause why yere my wyll haue any workynge at all More Lette Tyndale set hys consequente and conclusyon to thys antecedent made of thys reason and saye My wytte muste fyrste shewe me some cause eyther trewe or somwhat semynge trewe before that my wyll can any thynge do at all ergo none endeuoure of my selfe in conformynge and applyenge of my wyll can any thynge do at all And now when hys argumeÌ„t is all made vp ye shall fynde it as full of reason as an egge full of mustarde For what though my wytte and reason muste fyrste set my wyll a wurke can yet my wyll when it is ones moued dyuersly bytwene two reasons no thynge do at all in remouynge an obstynat leâ—ynge to the tone syde or a conformable inclynacyon towarde the consent of the tother If all the fayth of suche trewthes as are taughte were in suche wyse inspyred into euery mannes harte that is a faythfull man as he by that inwarde inspyracion had such a full perfayt and clere perceyuynge therof in the inwarde syghte of the vnderstandynge as the bodyly eye hath of y â— thynge that it playnely seeth and loketh vppon or as the syghte of the soule hath in suche euydent and open conclusyons as it dothe playnely and openly byholde suche I meane as are the generall petycyons in the fyrste boke of Euclidis geometry as that euery hole thynge is more then hys owne halfe or suche other lyke then wold I well agre wyth Tyndale that when the thynge were so shewâ—d vnto my wytte I coulde not but agre therto wyth my wyll But I say that all be it god is able in suche wyse to inspyre and infounde the fayth yf that hym lyste yet I saye that ordynaryly into hys faythfull folke neyther fynall reprobates nor fynall electes for faythfull are at sundry tymes of both the sortes he gyueth not the bylyefe or fayth on that fasshyon For yf he dyd then were it not fayth nor bylyâ—fe but very syghte and knowlege And suche kynde of so certayne and open reuelacyon were vnto the man occasyon of bylyefe and credence necessaryly surely and ineuytable but therfore as it semeth neyther thankworthy nor rewardable Now dothe god wyth hys chrysten folkes ordynaryly take that waye in the gyuynge theym theyr bylyefe and fayth that though they do not meryte wyth any forgoyng good dedes nor deserue the gyfte of byleuynge yet maye they wyth good endeuoure and obedyente conformyte deserue and meryte in the beleuynge And therfore syth god wyll for that cause bynde vs to the bylyefe bycause he wyll that we meryte and be rewarded for our bylyefe the reason of whyche deserte and meryt on our parte standeth in the respecte and regarde that god hath to our obedyence by whyche we wyllyngly submytte our selues to the credence of goddes worde wryten or vnwryten tellynge vs any thynge agaynste oure owne reason tellynge vs the contrary then yf our bylyefe loste hys meryte as that holy pope saynte Gregory sayth it shulde yf reason playnely proued vs the thynge that we byleue so were the meryte of our bylyefe loste in lyke wyse yf the thynge were in suche wyse gyuen vs as we more perfytely perceyued it then we perceyue any suche as reason maye moste perfytely proue vs. And therfore I say that god dothe nat ordinaryly gyue into men the faythe in suche maner bycause he wyll nat vtterlye take awaye the meryte fro man for as moche as he hathe ordayned hym to ioye by the meane of some meryte some conflycte passyon or payne vpon his owne parte though nat sufficient worthy for as saynt Poule sayth all the passyons and sufferaunces of this worlde be nat worthy the glory that is to come that shal be releued in vs yet suche at the leste wyse as his hyghe goodnes accepteth and rewardeth for worthy thorowe the force and strength of those merytes y t are in dede sufficient worthy the merytes I meane of y â— bytter payne and passyon of his alone onely begotten and tenderly beloued sonne Than say I nowe that syth y â— faythe is nat ordinaryly with suche open ineuitable and inuincyble lyghtsomnes inspyred in to the soule that the man muste of necessyte and very fyne force clerely perceyue and agree it but by god prouyded so sufficiently to be shewed taught as he that wyll be conformable and walke with goddes grace may fynde good cause inoughe to captyue his reason to the belefe and yet nat so great and vrgent causes but that he whiche wyll be yll wylled and frowarde may let grace go and fynde him selfe cauellacyons prowdely to test vpon his owne reason agaynste the worde of god eyther sayenge that his reason seeth it nat sufficiently proued for goddes worde as Tyndale sayeth in all goddes
gloryeste thou as thoughe thou haddest nat receyued it He sayeth nat as thoughe it were thyne owne For whan I haue receyued it it is than myne and so may I call it Another false entent wherfore Tyndale telleth vs thys tale of withdrawynge of goddes hande somtyme from his electes is bycause he wolde haue it stande with his heresye that he gothe so faste about that is to wytte that the electes do not sinne dedely in theyr dedely synnes bycause they do it nat wyllyngly but of infirmyte for lacke of power Inpursuynge of whiche purpose he wolde make it seme that god withdraweth his haÌ„de from them without their faute and than leaueth them no power to resyste so no blame in them nor no synne thoughe he be coÌ„tent to call it synne after y e maner y t the mocyon toward synne which rymayne of origynall synne be called synne This is Tyndalles entent in this matter by whiche he excuseth the synne of the electes by the withdrawynge of goddes hande from them nor for any defaute of theyr owne or any synne that they haue done but to kepe them onely from the synne that they wolde els do at another tyme. And where as god dothe for this poynt bothe for electes and reprobates all after one that is to wyt neuer withdraweth his grace from the tone nor from the tother tyll they begynne theym selfe to withdrawe theyr wyll from hym he dissymuleth that poynte goeth forth in his mater that he byeldeth vpon that foundacyon and sayeth Tyndale God sayed so soâ—e a wayghte of persecucyon vppon Dauides backe that passed hys strength to beare So that he cryeth oâ—te out in hys psalmes sayenge that he had lyued well and folowed the ryghte waye of god in vayne For the more he kepte hym selfe from synne the worse it wente with hym as he thoughte and the better with hys enemye Saul the worse he was Yet god lefte hym not there but conâ—orted hym and shewed hym thynges whych before he wyste not of â—hoâ—â— that the sayntes must be pacyent and abyde goddes heruest vntyll the wâ—yâ—enes of vngodly synners be full rype that god may repe it in dewe season God also suffred occasyons stronger then Dauid to â—ail vppon hym and to carye hym clene out of the waye Was he not redy for a chursysshe answere to haue slayne â—â—bell and all the males of hys howse so myche as the chyld in the cradell How be it god withhelde hym and kept hym backe from that euyll thorowe the wysedome of Abegall How longe sâ—ombred he or rather how harde in slepe was he in the adultery of Bathseba and in the murder of her husbonde Vriah But at lothe tymes as soâ—ne as he was rebuked and hys faute tolde hym he repented immedyately and turned agayne mekely Now in all that longe tyme from the adultery of Bathsâ—be vntyll the prophete Nathan rebuked hym he had not lost his fayth nor yet his loue vnto the lawes of god no more then a man loseth his wyttes when he is aslepe He had forgotte hym selfe onely and had not malycyously caste of theyr yoke of goddes commaundementes from of his necke There is no man so good but that there cometh a tyme vppon hym when he fealeth in hym selfe no more fayth or loue vnto god then a syke man of tymes feleth the taste of his meate whyche he eateth More Lo good reders here ye se that by Tyndales doctryne Dauid dyd no dedely synne but was euer out of faute and nat blame worthy neyther by impacyence drawynge nere to dispayre in persecucyon nor by y e purpose of moch manslaughter at an angry worde nor by auoutry conceyued at the sight of another mannes wyfe nor by the trayterous destruccyoÌ„ of his frendely seruauÌ„t in recompence of truthe amendes of his mysdede All this was no dedely synne in hym bycause he was an electe But yet is Tyndale ashamed to confesse and say boldely that to be electe is inoughe and that he may do what he lysâ—e and synne at his pleasure and that god will gyue him leaue to do it cause hym to be repentaunt whan he hathe done it and forgyue hym forthwith whan he repenteth and so forth totiens quotiens a pena et culpa so that he beleue it well and surely truste thereto leste for faynte hope feare he fall the lesse to synne This tale is Tyndale I saye somwhat ashamed to tell vs euen well and playnely forthe and therfore he deuyseth another waye and wolde make vs beleue that they be so preserued by the fayth that they do neuer any dedely synne But theyr dedes be suche as men may well se that they be nat to be blamed for them be they neuer so bestely but very babisâ—he and veniall and suche as god can do no lesse of very ryght and reason than remytte and forgyue and that for thre great causes here specifyed by Tyndale Fyrste for they neuer synne but vpon greate occasyoÌ„s farre aboue their strength Secondely for after theyr horryble dedes done they repent vpon rebukyng without resystence And thyrdely whiche mooste is of all all the whyle that they be in doynge the poore babes wote nere what they do but be all the whyle a slepe as he putteth here his ensample by Dauid And therfore lette vs consydre Dauid his dedes with Tyndals wordes examyne in them these thre godly reasons Fyrste he sayeth that Dauid synnes arose vpon great occasyons aboue Dauid his strength whiche great occasyons god suffred to fall vpon hym and cary hym awaye For whan he wolde haue slayne Naball and all his sonnes euen to the childe in the cradell he fell nat into that mynde without great occasyon ye wote well For the rude felowe had as Tyndale well reherseth gyuen hym a churlyshe answere And what man were there so vnreasonable y t wolde not thynke that a kynge or a great man had cause inough to kyll twenty paysans vyllayns for a churlysh answere of one of them Now when he fell to aduoutry therby to manslaughter had he not a great occasyon to it importable to bere For he saw y â— woman as he loked out at his wyndow And therfore who so euer haue ones the syght of a womaÌ„ is excusable yf he take her when he can catche her no man greatly to blame but eyther a blynde man or he that taketh one in y â— darke whom he neuer saw in y â— lyghte But we must here yet remeÌ„ber lest we mystake Tyndale that these great stronge occasyoÌ„s were not so very greate stronge of theÌ„ selfe but they were as Tyndale sayth stroÌ„ger then Dauyd and able to cary hym awayeâ— whychâ— he sayth to shew vs y t they were of y â— strength in coÌ„parison of y â— person not so mych by the force strength of theyr owne nature as by y e lyghtnes fraylty feblenes of Dauid as a small burdeÌ„ is a great wayght vpoÌ„ a child
doubte is there but that some man may ryghte well haue the cure of dyuers parisshes and good causes why he so shulde and do more good in them bothe thaâ— some other shulde in one But as for this poynte Tyndale meaneth moche farther than he speketh and entendeth hereafter if it be well alowed concernynge popes and prâ—estes than to drawe that lyne a lytle longer and loke whether he may make the reason stretche a lytle farther as he hathe done a lytle in some parte of hâ—s wryting all redy whiche we shall answere I truste well ynoughe whan we come ones to the propre places Nowe where he sayeth that whore kepers and suche other as saynt Poule forbyddeth vs the company the pope with vyolence compellâ—th vs to haue in honoure and to receyue the sacramentes of them and to here their masses and to beleue all that that they say This is a very lowdelye For the pope letteth you nat to complayne vpon them and the lawes of the churche be that for their crymes they shal be suspended from the medelynge and adminystracion of suche thynges and somtyme deposed of theyr offyces depriued of theyr benefyces and degraded of their orders to And therfore the pope compâ—lleth hym nat with vyolence to do them honoure in their vyces And if there were any that dyd he were in the doynge an euyll pope as he were an euyll man But what were the faute of an euyll pope to the offyce of the papacy excepte that Tyndale wyl reproue and rebuke euery kynge and prynce and wolde haue none at all bycause that some of theym somtyme do not alway theyr dewtye or wyll lay to the prynces charge yf any offycer vnder hym do not euery man such ryght as the prynce wolde he sholde and trusteth also that he dothe Now where he sayth that the pope compelleth hym to byleue all that euery suche preste sayth y â— is yet another lye ones agayne For yf the preste say salse preche heresyes as yf he wold say that all the seuen sacrameÌ„tes be but bare sygnes tokens that freres may lawfully wedde nuÌ„nes the pope compelleth no man with violence to byleue that preste nor compelled not Tyndale neyther agaynste the playne scrypture of god in suche frantyke heresyes to byleue y â— lewd lernyng of Luther frere Huyskyn Denckiê° Baltasar Lambert and Suinglius of all whyche neuer one byleueth other But the pope is well content so wold it sholde be that yf the preste preche suche heresyes folke shall not byleue hym but accuse hym and haue hym reformed reuoke them and abiure them or ellys let degrade hym and delyuer hym and let the prynces kepe hym from the people wherof to be sure and for auoydynge of such he resyes by the terrour of that ensample good chrysten prynces cause faythfull people to burne hym Buf then is there one thyng wherwyth Tyndale is sore dyspleased that the pope wyll not as he sayth let hym and hys felowes se whyther the preste say well or no. If the preste be accused of hys doctryne he is as I saye broughte vnto examynacyon to wytte whyther he sayed trewth or no. what other way wolde Tyndale haue It is playne inough what he meneth in thys mater He meneth therin nothynge ellys but that he wolde haue all thyng so ferforth sette at large that he myght brynge fyrst in dowte and questyon and after in errours and heresyes vpon the questyon euery poynt of Crystes catholike fayth that god hath by hys holy blessed spyryte in .xv. C. yere taught hys catholyke chyrche And then all thynges ones brought in that euangelycall liberty that euery man may byleue euen as hym lyst and after that lyue euyn as hym lyste to with out any lorde or any lawe to lette hym then lo to make the gospell truely taught take awaye in any wyse all the clergye clene and let Tyndall sende his women prestes about the worlde to preche And nowe good christen reders here haue ye harde all his fyue reasons by whiche in stede of that he shulde haue proued that is to wytte that the knowen catholike church of all chrysten people is nat the churche of Christ in â—rthe he hathe taken vpon hym to proue all besyde the purpose fyrst that the pope and his secte and after yet farther fro the purpose that the pope and the spirytualtie be nat the churche And of that whiche shulde be his purpose that is to wytte that the knowen catholike church is nat the churche he hathe nat spoken one worde And yet fynally concernynge that he hathe goone about to proue touchynge the pope and the spiritualtie he commeth forthe as ye se nowe with his fyue reasons that ye haue redde in the makynge of which fyue reasons a man may meruayle where were vanysshed a way all his fyue wyttes for any pece of his purpose that appereth proued in them all but if we râ—ken raylynge for reason and shameles open lyes for good and sufficient proues And therfore here ende I this boke in whiche if Tyndale haue sayd any thinge to the purpose at all I am content to graunt hym that he hath sayd well in all and fully proued all to gether Here endeth the fyfte boke and begynneth the syxte where in is auoyded the solucyons of Tyndale wherwith he wolde disproue the fyrste reason prouynge that the knowen catholyke churche is the trewe churche of Chryst. whiche fyrste reason is that all the sectes of heretykes do come out of the catholyke churche ¶ The syxte boke The defence of the fyrst argument agaynste Tyndale Tyndale Tâ—e argumentes wherwith the pope wolde proue hym selfe the chyrche are solued More THys is the tytle of hys chapyter wherin he desceÌ„deth by degrees as ye se ferther downe from hys purpose thenne euer he dyd before For where as before in stede of the whole catholyke chyrche he desceÌ„ded to the clergy alone whych is but the tone parte here he leueth all them to maketh as though men called the whole catholyke chyrche no mo but the pope hym selfe that is to wytte an whole greate maigne multytude of many sundry states maners condycyons and kyndes no moo but one man alone Is not thys geâ—e by Tyndale well and comely deuysed And yette forthwyth to shewe hys forther constaunce when he commeth to the mater selfe he turneth it agayne fro the pope alone to the whole company of the clergye dyssymulyng alway styll the temporalâ—ye as though there were of them neyther man nor woman of the chyrche wher in I wolde haue excused hys one falshed by hys other and wolde haue sayd that he ment accordynge to hys heresye that in the clergye were all togyther coÌ„teynâ—d bycause he maketh euery man and euery woman bothe a preste But that excuse he taketh awaye hym selfe and that euyn by by when in the next wordes folowynge he declareth that he speketh of no mo then onely suche as be so shamelesse that they suffer them selfe
wyse be hydden and therefore muste yt nedes be that the chyrche is thorowe the woâ—lde knowen And none is nor neuer was thorâ—we the worlde knowen for the chyrche of Chryste but onely the knowen catholyke chyâ—che Saynte Austayn also in his pystle to Uincentius whyche pystle is in order the .xlviii sayth in this wyse expresselyâ— How can we byleue by the scrypture of god that Cryst is comen into the worlde and knowen yf we byleue not therby that the chyrch is also manyfest and knowen lette any man who so wyll knyt and put in agaynste the playn trowth all the hokes and handles that he can let hym cast afore oure yien what mystes of wyly falshed that he lyst and when he hath all done loke how he is accursed that wyll tell vs that Chryste neyther veryly dyed nor veryly rose agayn euen lykewyse accursed shall he be that wyll tell vs for the very chyrche any other then this comen catholyke chyrche of all crysten nacyons Lo good reder Tyndale sayde heâ—e before y â— we wolde not byleue saynte Austayne nor any of the olde holy doctours as though hym self wolde And now haue ye hard saynte Austayne whome yf Tyndale wyll byleue all our questyon is decyded For he sayth as we saye that the comen catholyque chyrch is the very chyrch And yf he wyll not byleue hym then let hym leue lyke as he is to lay hys owne faute to other folke Good crysten reders yf my purpose were here to proue you by the consente of the olde holy doctours of Chrystes chyrche that the knowen catholyque chyrche is the very chyrche the nomber of those authorytees wolde fyll an hole boke But my purpose is here onely to answere Tyndale and confute his solucyon wyth whych he falsely gloseth the wordes of saynte Austayne that sayth he byleued not the scrypture yt self but for the authorite of the chyrch wherin I haue playnely proued you by saynt Austaynes owne wordes Tyndales wordes shamfully false as well in the pryncypall purpose as in that he layeth falsely to the chyrche that the chyrche doth abuse the sayng of saynt Austayne And therfore syth he sayth that they mysse construe and falsely alledge all the scrypture euen in lyke maner wyse as they do saynte Austayne whyle ye playnely se that in this poynte whyche Tyndale putteth for the sample the chyrche sayth trewe and hym selfe lyeth good cause haue you to byleue this lewde felow in the remanauntlyke But now shall ye se Tyndale deuyse you suche a shyft that contrary to all his shyftes afore he shall clerely confesse hym selfe that he both knoweth and byleueth the scrypture by the catholyke chyrch For now commeth he to his fourth solucyon wyth whyche he clene destroyeth all the tother thre that he made vs byfore Lo thus he sayth Tyndale And when they aske whether we receyued the scrypture of them I answere that they whyche come after receyâ—e the scrypture of them that go byfore And when they axe whether we byleue not that yt is goddes worde by the reason that they tell vs so I anâ—were that there are two maner oâ— faythes an hyâ—torycall fayth and a felynge fayth More Lo good reder here shall ye se that the thynge where about he hath bombled all this whyle that is to proue that he knoweth not the scrypture by the chyrche and to proue that he byleued yt not to be the scrypture of god bycause the chyrche so tolde hym perceyuynge at lengthe that all his answers were weke feble and faynte and that none of theÌ„ all wold stand he is dreuen at the last for very very shame to confesse some parte of the trouth yet for shame also to denye a nother parte For by thys dystynccyon of these two faythes hystorycall fayth and felynge faythâ— he wyll in the ende tell vs that ones he knew the scrypture by the chyrche in byleuynge the chyrche but that was but an hystorycall fayth How be yt he well saye that now he neyther knoweth it nor byleueth it by the chyrch but by the inwarde inspyracyon and teachynge of god hym selfe And where as his mayster and he many tymes mokke the doctours of the chyrch for vsyng of trew dystynccyoÌ„s in thynges where they be requysyte hym selfe hath here deuysed an euasyon by meane of a dystynccyon made by Melancthon in whyche destynccyon as in a myste he weneth to walke away But I truste ye shall se the myste breke vp so fayre that he shall not escape so Lo thus goth he forth there wyth Tyndale The hystorycall fayth hangeth of the trewth and honestye of tâ—e teâ—â—er or of the commen fame and consente of many As yf one toâ—de me that tâ—e Turke had wonne a cytye and I byleued yt moued wyth the honestyâ— oâ— tâ—e man Now yf there come a nother that semeth more honeste or that hath â—â—tter peâ—suasyoÌ„s that it is not so I thinke immediatly that he lyed and ◠〈◊〉 fayth agayne And a felynge fayth is as yf a man were there â—râ—sent 〈◊〉 yt was wonne and there were wounded and had there loste all that he â—aâ— anâ— were taken presoner there also That man shulde so byleue tâ—at aâ—â— tâ—e worlâ—e coulde not turne hym from his fayth Euyn lykewyse yf my motâ—er had blowen on her fynger and tolde me that the fyre wolde burne me I shâ—ld haue byleued her wyth an hystorycall fayth as we byleue the sâ—oryâ—s of the worlde bycause I thought she wolde not haue mokked me And so I shulde haue done if she had told me that the fyre had ben cold and wold not haue burned But as sone as I had put my finger in the fyre I shulde haue beleued not by the reason oâ— her but wyth a felynge fayth so that she coulde not haue persuaded my afterwarde the contrary So now wyth an hystorycall fayth I may byleue that the scrypture is godds by the teachynge of them and so I shulde haue done though they had told me that Robben hod had ben the scrypture of god Whych fayth is but â—n opynyon and therfore abydeth euer frutelesse and fauleth awaye yf a more gloryouse reason be made vnto me or yf the preacher lyue contrarye But of a felynge fayth yt is wryten IohnÌ„ vi They shall be all taughte of god That is god shall wryte yt in theyr hertes wyth his holy spyryte And Paule also testyfyeth Roman viii the spyryte bereth recorde vnto oure spyryte that we be the sonnes of god And thys fayth is none â—pynyon but a sure felynge and therfore euer frutefull Neyther hangeth yt of the hoâ—estye of the preacher but of the power of god and of the spyryte And therfore yf all the preachers of the world wolde go about to persuade the contrary yt wold not preuayl no more then though they wolde make me byleue the fyre were colde after that I hadde put my fynger therin Of this ye haue an ensample IohnÌ„ iiii of the Samaritanyshe wyfe whych left her pytcher and went into
that draweth draweth euen from the begynnynge and casteth downe the cord of his grace to take holde vpon wheruppon who so taketh hold and holdeth styll is by god drawen vnto god and helpeth hym selfe to be drawen For as saynt Poule sayth we helpe forth wyth god I say also that after that god hath wrought wyth mannys wyll and called hym by preuencyon of grace at the yeres of dyscrecyon eyther from Iudaisme or fro gentylyty and fyndynge no lette in the man hath by baptysme fully infounded the fayth and wyth hope and cheryte put hym in state of grace whych is all the wrytyng in the harte that euer I herde of this man hauynge nowe not fayth alone but hope and cheryte to and standynge in suche state of grace that yf he then so deceaced his soule sholde forthe with flye in to blysse byfore his body were colde yet when he doth after that infusyon of fayth and grace any thefte or auowtry he leseth charyte alway by custome of synne somtyme hope to and leueth but bare fayth that is to say bylyefe alone and somtyme by false doctrine of heretykes leseth some of that to Aud yet is fayth alone good to be kepte ye and the very peyces and fragmentes of the fayth also for they be meanes by whyche a man maye the more easely come to the remanaunt that he hath loste or lakketh And they helpe wyth goddes forther helpe to kepe a man from some synne though they kepe hym not from all For some man that falleth to thefte somtyme remembereth yet his baptyme and beynge by the deuyll entyced to kyll the man maketh a crosse vppon his brest prayeth Crist kepe hym from it in aduowtry lyke wyse And god in that good mynde preueÌ„teth the man by grace worketh wyth hys wyll in kepynge hym therefro as he gaue hym good thoughtes and offred hym his grace yf he wold haue taken holde therof to kepe hym 〈◊〉 the tother to And I doute not but yf god left hym in the â—one as he lâ—â—te god in the tother the deuyll that wyth his 〈◊〉 brought his wyll to thefte and aduowtry wolde â—rynge hym to manslaughter also and make hym kyll and murther the tone man for his money the tother man for his wyfe And thus ye se that of Tyndales ryall tale there is not one worde yet proued trew sauynge where he sayeth that all which come of Abrahams seed are nor Abrahams chyldren all but they only that folowe the fayth of Abraham For I wyll graunt hym this and a great deale more so For I say farther that all be â—ot Abrahams chyldren that haue Abrahams fayth but if they haue his charyâ—e to and therby worke his workes For our sauyour sayth yf ye be the chyldren of Abraham worke ye the workes of Abraham But ye be sayth he the chyldren of the deuyll and after his desyres wyll ye do well wyll Tyndale yet say syth yt is so that M. More grauÌ„teth hym selfe y t though fayth alone be a very fayth and right and trew for so farre as it stretcheth yet bycause yt stretcheth not farre inough to saluacyon in that yt beynge but alone lakketh both hope and charyte wherfore doth mayster More speke so myche therof beyng as hym selfe confesseth but insuffycient and not rather let yt passe and exhorte euery man to my felyng fayth that is both suffycyent and also can neuer fayle As for the fyrste poynte the blame be theyrs that haue geuyn the occasyoÌ„ For men haue be fayn to speke so mych of fayth alone for the selâ—e same cause for whyche saynte Poule dyd speke therof and saynt Iamys both that is to wyt bycause these heretikes now folowed the false secte of some suche as were then in the apostles tyme teachynge that fayth alone was inough for saluacyon as Tyndales mayster Martyne Luther doth manyfestly and playne in his Babilonica where he sayeth expressely that a chrysten man can neuer be dampned yf he will byleue nor no synne can damne hym but only inâ—rudelyte that is to say lakke of bylyefe For as for all other â—ynnys what so euer they be fayth saith he if it eyther abyde styll or come agayn suppeth theym all vppe in a moment and that god hath no nede of mannys good workes but that he hath nede of oure fayth alone This maketh folke to speke of fayth alone and shewe by y e authorite of saynt Poule and saynt Iamys and many other places of holy scrypture that Tyndales mayster holy Luther lyeth But yet wyll Tyndale saye syth I do nowe speke of fayth that is felynge and worketh well and by reason of the felyng a can not but worke well what sholde mayster More eyle now to speke any more of the tother faith alone that for lakke of felynge worketh not consyderyâ—ge also that I bysyde the fayth that feleth and worketk well adde repentaunce also of all that men do amysse what fauâ— ther fore fyndeth he now or what wolde the man haue more Fyrste there ys yet cause to speke of fayth alone bycause Tyndale is not an heretyke alone but y t there be many mo besyde hym whyche yet saye styll as Luther dyd byfore Also there is cause bycause of Tyndale specyally which wolde glose Luthers olde heresye wyth these new wordes whych wyll in no wyse stande wyth whych he wold make the world to wene that in fayth alone he ment fayth hope and charyte and that yt coulde not be that he any other ment bycause there can be none other fayth but onely that alone y t hath both hope and charyte therwith and by thys bald glose that thre vertues be all one vertue and that one vertue were thre agaynst both reason and scripture wold he mokke vnlerned people and make them byleue that Luther ment well and that all other men were so madde that they coulde not vnderstande hym And therfore to make open this wyly foly of Tyndale is also a cause why that I speke so myche of fayth alone bysydes the necessyte of answerynge hym concernynge his worshyppefull euasyon of his owne felynge fayth on whych he hopeth that he maye be bold bycause no man can come into his brest to se what maner of felynge hym selfe feleth there But yet hath god of his great goodnes begyled hym made hym so madde in the brayne that he hath vttred hym selfe such thynges with his own peÌ„ne as our sauyour sayenge hym self y t the mouth speketh of the abuÌ„daunce or fulnesse of the herte muste nedes make euery man to fele euen at his fyngers ende that Tyndale in the botome of hys harte wyth his fulsome felynge fayth feleth a foule fylthy hepe of false sumblynge heresyes For yet is his fayth worse then fayth alone whyche he calleth the deuyls fayth and myne For as saynte Iamys sayth The deuyls do both byleue tremble also for drede but thou sayeth he to Tyndale and euery suche as Tyndale is that for his felyng fayth
god that he hath a better fayth and a more perfayte than saynt Austayne had after that god had by myracle turned hym to the fayth and wryte agaynst the Manicheys from whose false secte god had called hym PeradueÌ„ture this questyoÌ„ wyll somwhat seme strauÌ„ge to this dyscyple of Tyndale bycause it is none of those to whyche hys mayster hath taught hym to make answere But yet I thynke in conclusyoÌ„ y â— hys mayster wyll not aduyse hym to saye that he feleth hym selfe to haue a more perfayt bylyefe then saynt Austayne in any suche thynge as saynt Austayne and he byleued bothe leste euery man shold fele the mayster of such a scoler to proue a proud fole Now on the tother syde yf he coÌ„fesse that he fele not his owne fayth for any more perfayt then saynt Austayns was but byleue in hys owne mynde that saynt Austayne in any trewe poynt of bylyefe commune vnto them bothe had as full a fayth and as perfayte as he then wyll I aske hym wherfore he doth not now byleue the scrypture styll for the authoryte of the chyrche as well as saynt Austayne dyd styll when he wrote of hym selfe agaynste the Manicheys and sayd I wolde not byleue the gospell but yf the authoryte of the chyrche moued me therto He byleued it for the authoryte of the chyrche alwaye styll and yet dare I saye and Tyndale I suppose dare not saye the contrary but that the spyryte of god hadde as well wryten that conclusyon in hys harte as in the holy harte of any dyscyple of Tyndale whome Tyndale here teacheth to answere vs the contrary And thus as concernynge the knowlege of the very scrypture whyche is our pryncypall mater Tyndals answere in the very chyefe poynte of all but yf he proue hys scolers fayth better then saynt Austayns hys answere that he techeth here hys dyscyple is not worth a rysshe But now let vs in those other artycles aske thys good scoler of Tyndale syth it is so that he feleth and fyndeth in his herte wryteÌ„ by the spyryte oâ— god that freres monkes that haue by vowe forsaken flesshe may lawfully fall from fysshe to womans flesshe and vnder the name of weddyng make stewed struÌ„pettes of nonnes and feleth also by lyke felyng fayth that good workes are nought worth nor shall be rewarded in heuen and feleth also by the same false felyng fayth that in the blessed sacrament of the awter there is neyther the precyouse body nor bloude of Chryste but onely cake brede and wyne or starche in stede of brede I shall aske hym I saye therfore the questyon to whyche hys mayster hath bouÌ„den hym to make answere that is to wyt how he came fyrst by thys fayth that is to saye the hystorycall fayth of them byfore that the spyryte of god wyth wrytynge theym in hys harte caused hym there bothe to rede them and fele them For answere of thys questyon Tyndale sayth to his scoler Tell hym whyther it were by redyng in bokes or heryng it preched Uery well Now syth his mayster byddeth hym tell vs I wolde praye hym to tell vs whyther by prechyng or redynge in bokes To thys he wyll I wene answere me y â— he lerned those thynges by prechynge Then I aske hym by whose prechyng he came to it To this muste he be fayne to saye that by the prechynge of hys owne mayster wyllyam Tyndale Luther Lambert Huyskyn or Suinglius or some suche other apostaticall prechers But now to thys shall I tell hym agayne that syth he had not the felyng fayth wryten by y e spyryte in his harte after his maysters owne tale tyll he fyrst byleued the same thinges with an hystoricall fayth by the herynge of those holy prechers he muste to th entent that he maye lede vs in to the same fayth as they dyd hym tell vs what reason he had to byleue them seynge that they be neyther men of more lernynge nor of more wytte nor of so mych vertue as were saynt Austayn saynt Hierom saiÌ„t Basyle saynt Cyprian saynt Chrysostom saynt Grygory saynt Ambrose wyth many such other lyke whose holy lyuynge trew fayth doctryne god hath approued testyfyed to the worlde by manyfolde wonderfull myracles all which holy doctours haue taught men to beleue y â— coÌ„trary To this questyon Tyndale techeth hys scoler to make answere and saye that he byleued them bycause they laye so good authoryte for them what authoryte laye they for them shall I saye Now to thys questyon Tyndale hym selfe maketh an answere and sayth Concernynge â—utwarde teachynge we allege for vs scrypture elder then any chyrche that was tâ—is xliii hundred yeres and olde autentyke storyes whych they had brougâ—t a slepe where with we confound theyr lyes Remember ye not how in our owne tyme of all that toughte grammer in Englande not one vnderstode the latyne tonge how câ—me we then 〈◊〉 tâ—e laten tonge agayn not by them though we lerned certayne rules aâ—â— prâ—ncyples of them by whyche we were moued and haddâ— an ocâ—â—sâ—on 〈…〉 further but oute of the olde authors Euen so we seâ—e 〈…〉 out of whych we lerne and not of our chirch thâ—â—â—h wâ— receyâ—â—◠〈◊〉 pryncyples of our chyrche at the begynnynge but more faâ—shed amâ—â—â—◠〈◊〉 trueth Lo good readers thys dyscyple of Tyndale in these artycles of his felyng fayth that good chrysten mennes good workes shall haue no rewarde in heuyn that frerys may wedde nonnes and in hys blasphemy agaynste the blessed body and bloude of Cryste in the sacrament of the aultare he byleued hys mayster and his mayster his mayster Marten Luther and the other lewde maysters of these newe sectes not wythout a cause ye se well For he sayth that they alledge for theyr heresyes the scrypture olde auncyent sâ—oryes therwyth as men haue brought vp nowe the trewe olde grammer agayne euyn so do they now brynge vp the olde trewe fayth agayne wherof thoughe they toke some pryncyples of the catholyke chyrche at the begynnyng yet they toke therof more falshed amonge then truthe Now which those thynges are that he calleth the falshed that he sayth they toke of the chyrche ye knowe good chrysten reders well inough those are the poyntes for whyche he so sore iesteth and rayleth agaynst the catholyke chyrch the techynge that good wurkes shal be rewarded in heuyn and that folke shold kepe the holydayes fastyng dayes pray for all chrysten soules honour the precyouse boâ—y bloude of Cryste in the blessed sacrament and obserue theyr holy vowes made to god and forbede that freres sholde wedde nonnes and many suche other thynges These thynges he sayeth that the chyrche hadde taughte hym false tyll that nowe Tyndale and Luther and Lambert and Huyskyn and Suynglius haue restored agayne the ryghte fayth in all these poyntes that hath ben thys .viii. hundred yere loste as Tyndale sayth These thynges haue they now restored and brought vp agayne by antyquytees and old
no chrysten man can be daÌ„pned but yf he wyll not byleue For nothynge he sayth can dampne hym but onely vnbylyefe For all other synnys he sayth be supped vp and swalowed all at onys in the bylyefe And therfor who so come to baptysme with onely bare bylyef all his other synnes as Luther calleth them or hys horryble dedes as Tindale calleth them which he is by the frayltye of hyâ— flesshe about for all his baptysme to do when he cometh hâ—me froÌ„ the fonte can nothyng lette any perfeccyon to be by god infounded in hys baptysme And then syth y t perfecâ—yoÌ„ muâ—te be by Tyndale eyther the felyng fayth or els the felyng of the faythe whyle there is by hym none other faythe suffycyent it foloweth that euery man whyche with hystorycall fayth cometh to baptisme is sure of y e feling faith how many synnys so euer he be abâ—nte of feblenes â—raylâ—ye to comytte after Now be it yf Tindale wyll for all this make any styckyng I can not tell what in them y â— of age discrecyon come vnto baptisme say there may be somâ— lette vppon theyr parte by reason that they may be about to synne wyllyngly and eyther of purpose or malyce lette vs consyder and waye well thys mater in them that come to baptysme wythout any maner lette when the chyldren are baptysed whyche kynde of fayth haue they The hystorycall fayth or the felynge fayth For fayth haue they muste or ellys they canne neuer stande in goddes fauoure and be saued wytnessynge saynte Poule that wythout fayth it is impossyble to please god And therfore of trouth faith they haue For though they come to the baptysme be receyued to the font in the fayth of theyr fathers and of the hole chyrch that offereth them yet with y e baptysme is there by god infouÌ„ded into them his grate the habyt of fayth hope cheryte wherwith they be made forth with perfayte meÌ„bres of hys mystycall body the catholyke chyrch iÌ„ erth therby made iÌ„heritable vnto y t blesse of heueÌ„ Now aske I therfore Tyndale which kynde of fayth is this the hystorycall fayth or the felyng fâ—yth Not the hystoricall I trow For y e chyldren haue not yet neyther redde nor herd many storyes wherfore it must nedes be by Tyndals own tale the felyng fayth For mo kyndes of faith putteth he not but those twayne nor none suffycyent for saluacyon but onely that same one suffycyent muste the fayth be that the chylde receyueth in the baptysme for ellys were the chylde neuer the rather saued in case he dyed as many chyldren do in the chrysome cloth or in the cradle Peraduenture Tindale gessyng now wher about I go wyll say that in the baptysme god infouÌ„deth into some the felyng fayth that is to say into hys onely electes in theyr hartes he writeth that into some other he infouÌ„deth it not and they be the reprobates he wyll happely say that it is agred by doctours of the chyrch that god gyueth in y e baptysme not lyke grace to euery chylde But vnto thys I answere that though in the baptysme eyther at the more goodnes more instaÌ„t prayour of y e fathers or godfathers of the â—hylde or for some other cause seene vnto his hyghe wysdom he gyue some one greter grace then to some other yet gyueth he them all one kynde of grace and one kinde of fayth though they dyffer in degrees as very a man is he that hath lytle stature as he that hath a great a Pygmey as a Geaunt And Tyndale sayth hym selfe in his answere vnto my dyaloge that our wurkes muste be as perfayt as the wurkâ—s of Cryst hym selfe but fayth he sayth is suffycyent though it be neuer so lytell And besyde thys as I sayed before god gyueth vnto eâ—ery chylde in the baptysme the habyâ—e of â—hat fayth that 〈◊〉 suffycyent for saluacyon but thâ—â— is sayth Tyâ—dale nâ—ne but the felynge fayth ergo by Tyndale the felynge fayth it is wherof the habyt god infoundeth into euery chylde in the baptysme But yet syth I haue proued that yf the chylde haue any fayth he hath by Tyndals tale the felyng fayth â—ow wyll Tyndale peraduenture saye that the habyte oâ—â—ayth is no fayth bycause it is not actuall fayth whych 〈◊〉 hath not for lacke of the vse of reason for want wheroâ—â—e can not thynke vppon nor actually consent vnto any poynte of faythe But vnto thys I answere that he maye by the same reason saye that the chylde hath no reasonable soule bycause he can not thynke vpon any reasonynge and that therfore he lacketh the specyficall and kyndely dyfference that dyuydeth the kynde of man from all the kyndes of vnreasonable brutyshe bestes and then is the chylde no more man then a calâ—e Also yf the habituall fayth be no fayth then is the chyld for all the baptysme styll oute of the state of grace or ellys muste Tyndale say that saynt Poule sayed vntrew in thaâ— he tolde the Hebrues that wythout fayth it is impossyble to please god Besydes thys yf habytuall fayth be no fayth at all for lacke of actuall thynkynge theruppon than dyeth euery man out of the fayth that happeth to dye in hys slepe had he neuer so good and greate actuall â—ayth when he went to bedde For no man shall be saued for the fayth that he onys had but for the fayth that he hath and in whyche hâ— dyeth Therfore the trouth is that the habytuall bylyefe is in the chylde very bylyefe though it be not actuall byleuyng and thynkynge vppon the fayth as the habytuall reason is in the chylde very reason though it be not actuall reasonynge and makynge of â—yllogysmys and thenne it is as I saye no story â—ayth therfore by Tyndals tale none other then very felynge fayth syth he putteth no mo kyndes of fayth nor none other â—ayth for suâ—â—ycyent goddes wurke is so perfyte that he infoundeth in the baptysme none suffycyent fayth How be it though thys be the trouth that the habytuall fayth is very fayth and infounded by god wyth the sacrament of baptysme into euery chyld and so that euery chyld hath therby the felyng faith yf Tindale tell vs trew yet to put out all argument I shall shortely strayne Tyndale to grauÌ„t a farther thynge or ellys to forsake his mayster For ye shall vnderstande that though the chyrche teaâ—heth that the habytull fayth is in the chyldren suffycyent yet cometh Tyndales mayster Martyn Luther and in his boke that he makeâ—h agaynst the Anabaptistes he teacheth by a longe processe that the yonge chyldren haâ—e â—â—founded the very actuall fayth in dede And therfore Tyndale that is his scoler maye not denye but that crystened chyldren haue very fayth then syth not hystorycall for lakke of redynge of storyes they muste nedes haue by Tyndales tale the felynge fayth Now yâ— wyll aske peraduenture what then and wherfore I go aboute
be the pyler nor the grounde of trouth for any man to reste vppon but that the chyrche whyche saynt Poule as Barns hym selfe reherseth calleth the pyler and grounde of trouth must be a knowen chyrche and therfore thys texte of saynt Poule that he bryngeth playnely proueth agaynste hym Now consyder also good reders that frere Barns in all thys hys descrypcyon and dyffynycyon of the chyrche of Cristes electes putteth onely these propretees Fyrst y â— they be goddes electes secundely that they be wasshed of god from theyr synnys and thyrdely that they be redemed by Chrystes bloude fourthely that they stycke faste vnto hys merytes onely fyfethly that they stycke onely to goddes promyses made in Chrystes bloude syrtely that they be sanctyfyed in spyryte and fynally for the seuenth that they be clene and pure wythout spotte or wryncle so farre forth that saynt Peter hym self may fynde no fawte wyth them Now fyrste as for the eleccyon frere Barns playeth as Tyndale doth walketh in the darke bycause he wold not â—e caught For he telleth not whych eleccyon he speketh of whyther the eternall eleccyoÌ„ by whyche god in his eternall prouydence foreseynge the ende of euery thynge before the worlde was wroughte elected theym for suche causes as hys owne inâ—â—nte wysdome sawe conuenyent vnto fynall saluacyon endeles felycyte or els the eleccyon by whyche Cryst elected chose theÌ„ into his chyrch here in this world into whych he chose tâ—ke bothe fynall electes fynall reprobates For yf he had expressed which eleccioÌ„ he ment he was aferde of the reprâ—fe of some false folyes that wolde haue folowed therof As for the seconde poynte is veryfyed in euery man of the comon knowen catholyke chyrche that came duely to chrystendome For euery suche man is by the spyryt of god wasshed clene iâ— baptysme And consyderynge that almost all be chrystened shortely vppon theyr byrthe they be in effecte all wasshed clene by god wyth the wâ—ter the worde And as towchynge the thyrde all we that be of the comon knowen chyrche are redemed in Christes bloude both good and badde For Cryste hath by hys deth payed euery mannes rauÌ„some hath delyuered vs yf we wyll though many men there be that wyl not take the benefyte therof but some wyll nedes lye styll in pryson some wyll nedes thyder agayne as no man canne kepe some theuys oute of Newgate but let them be perdoned and theyr fees payed and them selfe sette on free fote and delyuered out yet wyll they there for good company tary lose wyth theyr felowes a whyle and byfore the nexte sessyons come sytte as faste there agayne as euer they sat before Nowe where he sayeth fourthely that all that are of the chyrch of Cryste do put theyr trust in the merytes of Cryste onely yf he mene that they do reken that all theyr owne merytes can not brynge them to heuyn wythâ—ut the merytes of Cryste nor that they coulde nothynge meryte at all wythout the grace of god nor do put no boâ—â— trust in theyr owne merytes but of humylyte lytell esteme theyr owne workes that they haue done be they neuer so good that lesson hath he lerned of the knowen catholyke chyrche And yf he mene that no man is of the chyrche nor maye be saued that hath any truste of rewarde in heuyn for hys owne merytes and his workes wrought with helpe of goddes grace then meneth he falsely and putteth saynt Poule out of the chyrche of Cryste For he sayd I haue fought a good batayle and I haue fulfylled my course and I haue kept my fayth and now remayneth there and is layde vp for me a crowne of iustyce which our lorde y â— is a ryghteouse iudge shall yelde me in that day By whych wordys it appereth that he had good truste in the mâ—rytes of the batayle that he hadde foughte and the coursâ— that he had â—onne when he rekened of iustyce to be rewaâ—ded and crowned therefore Nowe yf he mene ferther as hâ—s mayster Luther and his felowe Tyndale do that no man is of the very chyrche of Cryste that wyll wyth helpe of grace go about to adde any merytes of hys owne vnto the merytes of Cryst then meneth he very myscheuously to the mynysshynge of chrysten menâ—ys myndes towarde the doyng of good workes and that lesson hath he lerned of the deuyll contrary to the contynuall techynge of god exhortyng euery man to good workes wyth promyse of rewarde in heuyn therfore For Cryste sayth in the gospell of saynt Mathew If thou wylt entre into the euerlastynge lyfe kepe the commaundementes And agayne in the gospell of saynt Luke Make you frendes wyth the wycked maÌ„mon that when ye shall haue nede they maye receyue you into the euerlastynge tabernacles Moâ—e ouer saynt Poule wryteth vnto the Corinthies in thys wyse Euery maâ— shall receyue hys rewarde accordynge to hys laboure And to the Ephesyes thus he sayth what good dede so euer any man do that same shall he receyue of our lorde be he bounde or free The same thynge coÌ„fyrmeth he also in an other place in hys epystle to the Galathyes thus sayenge what so euer a man soweth y â— same shall he repâ—â— For he that so weth in hys flesshe shall of the flesshe repe corrupcyon But who so soweth in the spyryte shall of the spyryte repe euerlastynge lyfe Let vs do good and faynte not for when the tyme shall be come we shall repe wythout fayntynge In the Apocalyps thus sayeth god by the mouth of saynt IohnÌ„ I wyll gyue vnto euery one of you accordynge to your dedes And agayne in the xxii chapyter Marke I come shortely and my rewarde is wyth me to rewarde euery man after hys dedes Now to the fyfthe poynt where he sayth that they that are of the very chyrch do stycke to the promyses onely me thynâ—e they that so do be straunge faythfull folke For yf he wolde saye that euery faythfull person sholde stycke to the promyses of Cryste I wolde wâ—ll holde wyth hym for that lâ—sson he lerned of the knowen catholyke chyrche But to saye that y â— no man is of the very chyrch of Chryste that stycketh faste vnto any thyngeâ— bysyde the promyses is a lesson lerned of the deuyll For so sholde we stycke to promyses â—nely and not onely fall from all good workes for whyche many promyses of god are made but ouer that sholde our â—ayth fayle vs and fall awaye frome all other poyntes that be no promyses and yet muste be byleued of them that wyll be saued For the equalyte vnyte of godhed in the thre eternall and almyghty persons is no promyse and yet we muste yf we wyll be saued stycke faste vnto the bylyefe therof ye and hell is also no promyse of saluacyon and yet muste we stycke fastely to Chryste in the bylyefe of hys worde wherwyth he tolde vs there is one but yf a
holy spyryte vnto his chyrche to teache yt and lede yt into euery trouth and that he wolde neuer leue them comfortelesse nor lyke chyldren faderlesse but wolde hym selfe be wyth yt all the dayes vnto the ende of the woâ—â—de so farre forth that where so euer were so mych as two or thre of that chyrche not scatered out therof as saynte Cypryanâ— sayeth but beynge in yt and of yt gathered to gether in his name he was and wolde be hym selfe in the very myddes among them wolde fayle to assyste them wyth his holy spyâ—yt wheÌ„ they were assembled so many in suche maner where as eyther theyr dede and declaracyon muste nedes stande and be â—erme or ellys all runne at rouers and nothyng be certayn or sure I doute nothynge but that ys this had be thus proponed yt wolde haue ben there in that full couÌ„sayle agreed and ordered and decreed that the generall couÌ„sayles shold be after not of the whole nomber of all crysten people but of some suche conuenyent nomber as conuenyetly myghte assemble and the same though yt were not the whole catholyke chyrch in dede but as frere Barns saith only representatyue sholde yet haue the same authoryte and the same full credence geuen vnto yt as though there were a tyt all the whole crysten people And thus ye se now that both in Luthers heresyes Tyndales to Barns also touchyng the weddyng of freres nonnes and the authoryte of generall counsaylys and the proâ—e of the knowen catholyke chyrche and the reprofe of theyr catholyke chyrch vnknowen I haue euyn wyth this one example of all the whole chysten people assembled at a generall counsayle playnely confuted them all But now yf frere Barns wyl here say that wyth all this ymagynacyon of suche an whole assemble at a generall couÌ„sayle I can nothyng proue bycause yt is but an imagynacyon that neuer coulde come to passe I answere hym that yf he so say he shall speke very vnlernedly For be the thynge neuer so false and impossyble to yet may it be putte and admytted to consyder therby what wold folow or not folow theruppon yf yt were both possyble and trew or els made that great wyse and well lerned man Boetius a very symple and an vnwyse argument what time to proue that the fredome of mannes wyll is nothing restrayned nor the fynall effecte of thynges here coÌ„tingent or happenyng any thynge precysely bouÌ„den to y e tone parte or to the tother by the prescyence and forsyght of god he dyd put the case that god hadde not of any suche thynge to come any forsyght at all And then dyd theruppon argue thus in effecte that all were it so y â— god dyd not foresee whether such a maÌ„ shold in such a momeÌ„t or vndyuisyble tyme syt or not syt yet shold that man in that moment do but the tone of those twayne whyther of the twayne hym selfe then wolde and shold not in that one tyme vndyuysyble do the both twayn both syt not syt wherof the tone were contradyctory playne repugnauÌ„t to the tother And that therby may euery man playnly perceyue that the prescyence of god putteth no necessyte in thynges of theyr nature conuenyent vnto fre wyll of man who so consyder well this argument of his and many suche other lyke made by many ryght excellent wyse well lerned men shall eyther esteme them all for folys or ellys confesse that vppon frere Barons reason grouÌ„ded vppon the dyfference betwene the whole catholyke chyrch in dede and the generall counsayle that is not the whole chyrche but by way of representacyon I may well and orderly put the case and suppose that the whole people were at the generall counsayle And then in cause yt so were yf then my purpose wolde folowe and frere Barons purpose fayle as ye se playnely yt wolde then is my parte as well proued and his as well confuted as yf the matter were not onely for argumeÌ„t supposed but were so comen to passe so done in very dede And so this ensample of myne may for all the impossybilyte therof be a good grouÌ„de of profe agaynst all these felowes in theyr false and faynt framed maters coÌ„cernynge the mayntenaunce of theyr false heresyes agaynste all the knowen catholyke chyrche by theyr owne ymagynacyon of a secrete scatered vnknowen chyrche and yet eche of them a dyuerse chyrche not one agreynge wyth a nothâ—r Now hath frere Barons therfore none other shyft that I can se but to say that in that generall counsayle whyche I haue put and supposed in saynt Gregoryes dayes the heresyes that I haue spoken of of Luther Tyndale hym selfe wolde not haue ben condempned but rather approued and allowed for good thynges and trew nor that generall counsayle then beynge suche as I haue put woldâ— neuer haue ordeyned that there sholde be any generall counsayle after of any fewer then all the whole chrysten people or yf there sholde yet wolde they not haue dâ—termyned that euer any suche generall counsayle gathered of any fewer then all to gether shold haue the same authoryte or crâ—deÌ„ce that yt sholde haue yf the counsayle were assembled of all If frere Barons or any of all his felowes be so bold as to tell vs this then may they boldely bere vs in hand what so euer they wyll in this worlde For this maye euery man well wyt that they wold determine when they were comen to gether as they all knew to be good and trew whyle they were a sundre But then are we very sure wherof I thynke neyther Barns nor Tyndale nor Luther neyther can for sham say the coÌ„trary but y â— vntyll wythin this twenty yere passed laste all the worlde good and badde crysten and hethen wolâ— haue had in abomynacyon that any man vowynge chastyte sholde haue wedded a nunne when he lyste vpon his owne sensuall frantyque fantesy breke his promyse made vnto god And therfore I dare be bold and as I truste with the consent and agrement of euery good maÌ„nys conscyence to afferme in this mater a great deale farther agaynste them then I sayde byfore For I dare well saye not onely that they shold haue ben condemned by that one generall couÌ„sayle that I haue put as gethered in some one yere of saynt Gregoryes papacy but also yf there had bâ—e the lyke gadered in euery yere of his yeâ—e and in euery yere synnes his tyme tyll wythin this twenty tyme last passed and in euery yere before vnto the very apostlâ—s tyme and euery yere in theyr tyme to and in euery yere synnes Cryst was borne and euery yere synne the world was fyrst replenyshed well wyth peple that same shamefull sensuall bestely secte wolde haue ben condemned for abomynable And also that the dew assemble of certayne partes representynge the whole body sholde haue the full authoryte of the whole body is a thynge by the comen assent and experyence of the whole worlde crysten
lordes goodes vnto whome they geue none honoure And of those goodes cometh the harlottes deckyng that thou seest dayly the game players dysgysynge and kynges apperrell Of this cometh golde in theyr brydelles in their sadelles and in theyr spurres so that theyr spurres be brighter theÌ„ the aulters Of this commeth theyr plentuous wyne presses and then full sellers blolkynge from this vnto that Of this coÌ„meth theyr tonnes of swete wynes Of this be theyr bâ—ggys so fylled for suche thynges as these be wyll they be rulers of the chyrch as dekens archdekens byshoppes and archbishoppes c My lordes I hadde thoughte to baue added cardynalles and legates abbottes and pryours to haue made the company more holy But I durst not How thynke you Of whom doth he speke when he sayth byshoppes and archbyshoppes What holynes doth he reproue when he speketh of gorgyouse aray 〈…〉 More Now good reders here is an ende of frere Barons proâ—â—â—â— concernynge the chyrcheâ— whyche processe he hath â—nâ—â—â— wâ—th saynt Bernaâ—de By whose wordes Barns wold â—t sâ—olde sâ—â—e that saâ—nt Bernaâ—de wâ—re of his opynyon thâ—t is to wyt that suche as aâ—e euyll aâ—e not of the chyrch â—nd thâ—n were the chyrche and vnknowen chyrch of onely good â—olke alone how be yt not yet precysely his chyrche for his chyrche is yâ— wote well a chyrche of folke not meanely good but of folke so good so pure and so clene that ther be not among them all so myche as eyther spot or wryncle â—ow be yt though saynt Bernarde shold not proue Baâ—ons chyrche yet wolde frere Barons â—hat saynt Bernard sâ—old sâ—me to proue the chyrch to be at the lest an vnknoweÌ„ chyrch of onely good folke and so to proue that the knoweÌ„ catholyque chyrche were not the chyrch For as for â—arns oâ— trouthe and all his felowes toâ— so they myghte dysproue and destroy this chyrche that is they care not greatly for the â—akynge of a nother yet wolde frere Barons fartherâ— that saynte Bernarde sholde seme to dyspyse and set at nought all holy ornamenâ—â—s â—nd call them harlottes deckyng and then by the same â—eanes dyspyse all other holy ceremonâ—es of the chyrche â—ut â— shall shew you good redersâ—â—yrst that saynt Berâ—â—â—â—â— proueth nothynge for frere Barns noâ— agaynste the â—â—owen catholâ—â—uâ— chyrche though his woâ—des â—ere but 〈…〉 â—arns reherseth them 〈…〉 sâ—all I shew you that 〈◊〉 Baâ—ns playth with saynt Bernard hereâ— as ye haue sene hym before play wyth saynt Austaynâ— wyth saynt Pouleâ— with saynt IohnÌ„ the euangelyst that is to wytte reherse hym false and chaunâ—e some wordes kepe some wordes away to make his mateâ— sâ—me swete Fynally shall I shew you y e saynt Bernarde not in thys heresy onely coÌ„cernynge the questâ—on whych is the chyrche but also in all frere Barns other heresyes was his very specyall enemy and then wyll I make â—n ende For the fyrste poynt yf saynt Bernarde saâ—d here all as frere Barns reherseth hym yet what had he â—ayde for frere Barns concernynge the chyrchâ— do all those woâ—des amoâ—â—t to any moreâ— then that there are in euery kynd of 〈◊〉 of the chyrch some that are nought And who denâ—eth thaâ— And then sayth also that all suche as so be do serue Anâ—iâ—chryste and not Chryste And who sayth nay who sâ—â—th tâ—â— euyll folke sâ—rue god well dothe not euery man agreâ— thâ—â— euyll chrysten peple do by theyr dedely synnes serâ—â— thâ— deuyll If frere Barons wyll any thynge proue vs by 〈◊〉 Bernarde he muste shewe where saynte Bernaâ—de â—â—â—th that suche as are euyll are not of the chyrche He sheweth vs no suche worde And â—â—t myghte 〈◊〉 Bernardeâ— and many an other holy man â—aye such a wordâ— and yet meane no suche thynge thâ—rby For he that 〈◊〉 saye in a sermonâ— that a monke that bâ—eketh â—ys 〈◊〉 or any of hys other vowes is neyther monkâ— nor 〈…〉 manâ— but mych wurse than a Iew meanâ—th 〈…〉 he is no lenger a monke in dede nor a member 〈…〉 monastery Nor he that wolde saye that a woâ—â—n tâ—at â—â—â—keth her obedyâ—ce to her husband were not a wyf◠〈◊〉 not that her husband were therfore dyscharged of her aâ—â— may take an other wyfe Nor he that sayth a dronkâ—n 〈◊〉 is no woman but a sowe meaneth not therby perd◠〈…〉 her chyldren shal be pyggys The prophete speketh in the person of our 〈…〉 selfe I am a wurme and not a man yet ment 〈…〉 to deny that he was a very maÌ„ in dede but 〈…〉 in so vyle maner haÌ„deled at his passyon as thouâ—◠〈…〉 no man but a very vile wurme A man 〈…〉 whom he giueth meate drynke w 〈…〉 stelth do to some other more seruycâ— th 〈…〉 ster ye and secretely somtyme agayns 〈…〉 And therfore ouâ— sauyâ—ur sayd not 〈…〉 maysters but he â—ayd no man can 〈…〉 yf he haue twayne whyle he serueth the tone he shall leue the tother vnserued And therfore though saynt Bernarde saye that they serue Antechryste and that they serue the deuyll yf he had sayed also and therfore they be no seruauÌ„tes of Cryste nor be no chrysten menne but Chrystes enemyes very antechrystes yet had he not ment in all thys y t they were for all thys oute of the chyrche and none of it whyle they were such and than of it agayn whan they were ameÌ„ded and out of it agayn as soone as they synned agayne thus playe in and out lyke in docke out netle that no man sholde wyt whan they were in and whan they were out nor knowe whych were the chyrche Thus haue I shewed you good reders that all though saynt Bernard had sayd in dede as Barns falsely reherseth him ye somwhat more to yet had it not ê“ued for Barns Now for the secunde poynt ye shall vnderstand that Barons hath vntruely translated you saynt Bernardes wordes For lettynge passe some peces that he hath lefte out in the myddes for no cause that I caÌ„ se but yf it were for lacke of lernynge and lettynge passe some suche also as he hath mysse translated of ignoraunce I wyll shewe you but one place or twayne whyche he hath wyth one word or twayne so chaunged of malyce that he hath turned the sentence for hys purpose clene agaynste the mynde of saynte Bernarde that wrote it For euyn in the very fyrst begynnynge where saynt Bernarde sayth thus Ministri Christi sunt seruiunt Antichristo that is They be the mynystres of Cryste they serue Antichryst Barns hath translated it thus They call them selfe the mynistres of Cryst but they serue Antichrist So that where saynte Bernard sayth that though they serue Antichryste yet they be the mynystres of Cryst in hys chyrche here frere Barns turneth that an other way maketh as though saynt Bernarde sayd not that they be so but sayd onely that they call them selfe so And in lyke wyse after in the ende where as saint Bernard sayth pro huiusmodi voluÌ„t esse
in a man yet he may that bylyefe styll staÌ„dyng fall in to many dedely synnes without any wrong opynâ—o taken agayst the ryght bylyefe now cometh Tyndale agreeth vnto that so y â— he I be therin agreed But than wolde he fayne saue his worshyp with sayeng nay therfore he denyeth that we be agreed For he sayth y t the thyng which I call the ryght fayth is not the ryghte fayth For though a man byleue â—ayth he neuer so ryght without any wronge opynioÌ„ in any artycle of the fayth yet but yf he haue trewe trust full vndowted hope in god cheryte therwith also which sayth he must nedes ensew therupon els hath he no ryghte fayth And so Tyndale auoydeth me not with any prouynge that abomynacyon and synne can not stande wyth the thynge that is in dede a ryghte fayth but that abomynable synne can not stande with the thynge whych hym selfe calleth the ryght fayth bycause it pleaseth not hym to call a ryght fayth that bylyefe that is right inough and hath none artycle wronge therin for as farforth as perteyneth to the nature of onely fayth but yf it be both fayth and hope and cheryte to wherin amonge all lerned men that here vs bothe and se hys sotle shyfte he wynneth so mych worshyp therby that he maye surely be mych ashamed therof as often as he thynketh therof But marke well good reder that he coÌ„meth forth after and sayth that hym selfe and suche other hys holy companyons the trewe membres of theyr electe chyrch as haue y â— ryght fayth and the felynge fayth to that is to wytte after hys owne doctryne full fayth full hope and cheryte bothe so surely that it can neuer fall from theym maye yet for all theyr ryght fayth fall into abomynable synfull dedes vpoÌ„ great occasyons brekyng out of the frute of the synne that remayneth in theyr synfull membres and maye for a space perseuer in those horryble synfull dedes and yet all that whyle theyr ryght fayth doth contynue and theyr abomynable synfull dedes to gyder And so by Tindale hym selfe all abomynacyon and synne maye stande to gyther wyth the ryght fayth that is not onely wyth the ryght bylyefe alone as I affermed but wyth the ryght bylyefe wyth good hope cheryte to as Tyndale sayth whyche I say is playnely false For surely the thynne sotelty therof my groce wytte can in no wyse perceyue And thus good chrysten reders for conclusyon ye now clerely se to what folysshe conclusyon he hath brought hym selfe in conclusyon and all thys chapyter of his with his royall rydle of synnynge and not synnynge is royally ronne to ryghte nought How â— chrysten man can not erre and how he may yet erre Tyndale ANd as they synne not so they erre not And on the tother syde as they synne so they erre but neuer vnto deth and damnacyon For they neuer synne of purpose nor holde any errour malycyously synnynge agaynste the holy goost but of weakenes and infyrmitye As good obedyent chyldren though they loue theyr faders commaundementes yet breke them ofte by the reason of theyr weakenes And as they can not yelde them selues bond vnto synne to serue it euyn so they can not erre in any thynge that sholde be agaynste the promyses whiche are in Chryste And in other thynges theyr errours be not vnto dampnacyon though they be neuer so greate bycause they holde them not malycyously More I Shall good chrysten readers make no longe worke aboute thys chapyter For syth the hole somme therof is as ye se no thynge ellys in effecte but that the trew membres of Tyndals electe chyrche do ofteÌ„ erre and yet neuer erre euyn in lyke maner as they often or rather alwaye synne and yet neuer synne whyche hys manyfolde folyshe heresyes in euer synnynge and neuer synnynge I haue many maner wyse playnely refelled and confuted in the chapyter nexte before I maye therfore wyll â—ake a great dele the lesse laboure and busynesse in thys I wyll therfore but put you in remembraunce that all hys mater standeth onely in thys that hys trewe membres of hys electe chyrche after that they haue onys goten the trewe fayth that saynt Peter confessed vnderstandyng the same in suche erronyous wyse as Luther and Tyndale teche them wyth many playne pestylent heresyes therin as I haue before openly and clerely declared you and when that they haue onys attayned that fayth not wyth an hystorycall maner as a man maye beleue a story but wyth a felyng fasshyon as the chyld byleueth that the fyre is hote bycause he hath burned hys fynger as Tyndale wyll tell you in a nother chapyter after who so sayth he hath onys in suche a fasshyon attayned and goten that fayth that is to wytte who so euer is ones enfect with â—hose heresyes in such a fast felyng fashyon can neuer after erre daÌ„pnably And why For two causes sayth Tyndale One bycause y â— lyke as they can not synne of purpose but of weykenesse infyrmyte so can he neuer erre in any thynge at all y t shuld be agaynst the promyses that are in Chryste A nother cause is bycause what other errour so euer such a trew faythfull electe meÌ„ber of his electe chyrch happen to falle into so that it be not agaynst the promyses that are in Chryst can not be daÌ„pnable be it neuer so grete all though the trueth that is contrary to that errour be wryten sayth Tyndale euyn in the very gospell it selfe And why can it be no dedely synne bycause sayth Tindale that an elected men ber of his can not holde it malycyously So that by this ye maye clerely se that Tyndale affermeth techeth for a treuth that in all other thinges bysyde the promyses a trewe member of hys electe chyrche maye somtyme erre but neuer malycyously and that is to wytte neuer but of weykenesse and furmentye as hym selfe hath often all redy declared And therfore they can not in any suche thynge synne dedely nor dampnably be the thynge neuer so greate and also wryten in the very gospell as he sayth after to By thys also ye may clerely se that concernyng the promyses that are in Chryst he sayth that a trew member can not erre at all neyther malycyously nor of fraylte For syth he graunteth errour of infyrmyte in other thynges onely that towch not the promyses ye may clerely perceyue that concernynge the promyses he holdeth that a trew meÌ„ber of his electe chyrch can not erre at all in any maner of wyse neyther of malyce nor purpose nor fraylte nor weykenes nor infyrimte So y t as he putteth iÌ„ all other poyntes onely malycyouse errour to be dedely synne daÌ„pnable so putteth he concernyng the promyses euery maner of errour to be dedely synne and daÌ„pnable be it of purpose and malice or of infyrmyte fraylte or weykenes and for that cause a trew member of his electe chyrche can neuer fall therin For yf he ment
not thus he wolde not so deuydeâ— these two kyndes of errour one agaynst the promyses and the other agaynst other thinges as ye se hym do but yf it were to teche vs that the tone were dedely synne and daÌ„pnable euery waye and the tother neuer dampnable but yf it were holden of malice and that therfore the trew member of his electe chyrch maye erre in the tone kynde so it be not malycyously bycause that ellys it is not dampnable nor dedely synne But in the tother concernyng the promyses he can neuer erre at all And why but bycause that euery errour therin were dedely synne and dampnable that one of his heresyes is as ye haue herd byfore that a trew member of the elected chyrche can neuer synne dedely And thys ye se therfore is hys playne doctryne whych what treuth it hath we shall nowe playnely shew you Let vs fyrst begynne with errours agaynst y â— promyses in Chryst. And therin let Tyndale tell vs fyrste wherfore a trew meÌ„ber of his electe chyrch can not erre in any thynge that is agaynst the promyses y â— be in Chryst in suche wyse as they may in other great artycles of the fayth that be no promyses what hath he other to say but bycause y â— euery maner errour though it be not holden malycyously is yet dedely synne daÌ„pnable yf it towch any promyse and that none other errour is dedely synne or dampnable whyche towcheth no promyse but yf it be holden malycyously Then must we forther aske hym wherby he woteth and wherby he proueth y t euery maner errour in euery artycle of any promyse y t is in Chryst is dedely synne daÌ„pnable though it come but of weykenes and fraylty and none â—rrour in any other artycle be it neuer so great is dampnable dedely but yf it be holden of malyce we must aske hym wherby he knoweth y â— it is inowgâ— for his saluacyoÌ„ to byleue y â— promyse of god in Chryst thaâ— thorow Chryste he shal be saued byleue not that Chryste the holy goste be one equale god wyth y â— father by which thre persons one god he shal be saued For y e Chryst is one god equale with the father it is no promise made vnto vs nor y t the holy goste is so neyther but it is a thyng by god tolde vnto vs. And I maruayle mych by what menys Tindale can proue vs that there is any lesse parell in not byleuynge of goddes other wordes then in the wordes of hys promyses syth he byndeth vs to byleue them both a lyke The cause of our saluacyoÌ„ is not the bylyefe of the promyse nor the truste therin neyther of any proper nature of that bylyefe in the promyse no more then the nature of our good workes is able of it selfe for our saluacyon but the ordynaunce of god that it pleaseth hym to saue vs for our obedyence of hys commaundement bothe in the bylyefe and the worke For as he coulde yf it so pleased hym brynge vs all vnto the blysse of heuen wythout any good worke at all so coulde he yf he lyste brynge vs all thyther wythout any fayth at all For he coulde brynge vs thyther wythout any knowledge gyuen vs therof tyll we came thyther and had it So it appereth clerely that the cause of the saluacyon standeth all in the obedyence of goddes coÌ„maundement wherby he byddeth vs and by hys byddyng byndeth vs to captyue our vnderstandynge in to the obedyence of fayth and byleue hys promyses Now yf thys be thus as of trouth it is what dowte is there but that we be as vpon lyke rewarde so vpon lyke parell payne bounden to byleue all other thynges y t god telleth vs as well as the thynges whych he promyseth vs. And therfore yf Tyndale wyll to the contrary loke to be byleued of any man in thys poynt he muste accordynge to hys owne ruleâ— brynge forth playne and open scrypture by whyche god hath tolde vs by wrytynge that yf we byleue onys hys promyses care for no more For as for all other thynges that be no promyses he wyll that we be at lyberty to byleue as we lyste so that there be no malyce in vs. And why at more lybertye of byleuynge god in hys other wordes then in hys promyses I can not perceyue what cause Tyndale can imagyne but yf he be so madde to thynke that god wyll in all hys other tales that hym lyste to tell vs though they be wryten in the very gospell as Tyndale sayth after haue vs yet at lybertye in beleuynge hym bycause hym selfe wolde be at lybertye to tell vs for hys pleasure somtyme trew talys and somtyme suche as Tyndale telleth that is to wytte vntrewth and lyes Surely this is a maruelouse tale of Tyndale in my mynde a maruelouse dyfference that he putteth bytwene the bylyefe of the promyses and the bylyefe of all the other artycles of the fayth As though the bylyefe of the promyses onely were so farre aboue the bylyefe of any other artycle when euery man that any wytte hath maye well and clerely se that the bylyefe of the promyses do so depende vpon some other artycles that the bylyefe of those artycles gone the bylyefe of the promyses and all to gyther were gone As who so were as many haue ben so madde to byleue that there were no god at all wyth hym were goddes promyses quyte gone And hys synne were as greate that erred in not byleuynge there were any god as hys that byleuynge there were a god erred yet in that he byleued not that euer he made any promyse to man And yet in goddes promyses Tyndale meneth onely y â— promyses of god made vnto mankynde for so farre go saynt Peters wordes qui in hunc mundum venisti is Tyndals exposycyon to And therfore as for Tyndale ye se well so that he byleue that hys electe chyrche of mankynde shal be saued he maye wythout any parell chese whyther he wyll byleue that euer any angell is eternally saued or not notwythstandyng that Chryst sayd of saynt IohnÌ„ the baptyst that the lest in heuen was greter then he yet bycause it was but a tale tolde by the mouth of Chryst and not a promyse made specyally syth it was no promyse of any gyfte gyuen to man Tyndale maye dystruste it and denye it yf he lyste yf hys wytte haue any such wekenes and so that he do it not of malice for all that it is playnely wryten in the very gospell and there tolde by goddes owne mouth Concernynge yet the promyses made to man let vs coÌ„syder whych thynges be promyses and whych thynges be not the very promyses but other artycles besyde That we shal be saued thorow Chryst and by Chrystes passyon is a promyse And yet that Chryst hym selfe was the same very person by whom that dede shold be done is more properly a tale then a promyse And it maye be that a man
at onys lo then I se the worlde wont to do many drammes of suche tryacle myxed with one scruple of drede were able inough for awght that I can se so to preserue the soule fro presumpcyon that one sponefull of good workes sholde no more kylle the soule then a potager of good wurtes sholde kylle and stroye the body The scrypture byddeth vs watche and faste and pray and gyue almoyse and forgyue our neyghbour we pore men that lacke the hyghe spyrytuall syghte that Tyndale hath and hys holy electys take these thynges for good workes And god sayth in hys holy wrytte that he wyll forgeue our synnes the rather for them and wyll rewarde vs for them thorow the scrypture thys cryeth god in our earys and faythfully promyseth almost in euery lefe And now ye se Tyndale that precheth so faste of the fayth and truste of goddes promyses wolde haue vs in these pâ—omyses trust god nothyng at all But herein is great peryll specyally to hope and truste to gete any good at goddes hand for y workes of penaâ—â—â—e enioyned For the sacrament of penaunce is to Tyndale a great abomynacion and therin in dede he sayth somwhat For well ye wote euyn of naturall reason a wyse man wyll sone se that syth the punysshement that a man wylfully taketh for the synne that he hath done commeth of an angre and dyspleasure that he bereth towarde hym selfe for the dyspleasure that hys synne hath done to god and that hâ—s wyllyng submyttyng of hym selfe to the correccyon of hys goostly father commeth of great humylyte gyuen by goâ—â— and taught by all good men god muste nedes thereâ—oâ—e perde bothe be angry and abhorre all them that for the frutes of these good affections can hope for any fauour grace or pardone at hys mercyfull hande If Tyndale lyste to loke in sainte Austayn in his boke of penaunce he shall there fynde that holy doctour 〈◊〉 byd euery man put hym self whole in hys conâ—â—ssours hadâ— and humbly receyue and fulfyll such penaunce as he shall enioyne hym But than doth Tyndale specyally touch that y e church techeth to put trust in vowys and in chastyte for that is a thyng in the earys of Luthers electes of all thynges moâ—â—â— abomynable But the churche techeth none other truâ—â—â— therin than the scrypture doth hyâ— selfe and oure blâ—â—sâ—d sauyour hym selfe They teche sayth Tyndale to truste in other mennes prayours and holy lyuyng in freres and in freres cotys Is nat here an abomynable synne that any man shulde haue so lytle pryde in hym selfe that he shuld thynke other men moche better than hym selfe and therfore desyrâ— thâ—m to pray for hym to besyde hym selfe In howe many places doth the scrypture exhort eche of vs to pray for other And whan the scrypture sayth that the dylygent prayoure of a iuste man is moche worth shuld we than truste nothynge therin but thynke that it were ryght nought worth at all or bycause the scrypture so commendeth the prayour of a good man shuld we lyke hys prayour the lesse for his holy lyuynge byd hym pray nat for vs but yf he lyue nought or if he be a frere and go in a freres cote bydde hym praye nat for vs tyll he put of hys frerys cote and put on a frese cote and ruâ—ne out of hys ordre an catche hym a quene call her hys wyfe Than goeth he from good lyuers in erth vnto sayntes in heuyn fyndeth yet more faute in that men are taught to go in any pylgrymage or do any worshyp to them or to thynke that theyr good lyuyng was so pleasauÌ„t vnto god whyle they lyued here in erth that he wyll therfore vouchesaufe to do any thynge at theyr requeste for any louer of theyres whyle they be wyth hym in heuyn Howe be it in thys poynt I dare be bolde to say for Tyndale my selfe that he is nat so folysh but that he seeth well I nough that if I may well pray my neyghbur to pray for me that is here wyth me in erthe I may moche better pray the sayntes pray for me that are with god in heuyn sauing that he byleueth that they be nat there nor neyther here vs nor se vs but lye styll as Luther sayth a slepe And therfore Tyndale leste we myghte wene that he byleued well byddeth vs in another place of hys boke that when we mete y e sayntes and talke wyth any of them than lette vs hardely knele and make our prayour to them And so ye shall natte nede to meruayle moche though thys man be bolde to ieste and rayle vpon euery man here in erth when he fereth nat to make mokkes and mowys at the blessed sayntes in heuyn He blameth vs and bylieth vs as though we toke theyr dede ymagys for quyke But hym selfe semeth yet moche worse in dede that taketh goddes quykke saintes for dede agaynst Chrystes owne wordes declarynge the contrary bothe by the scrypture in the gospell of saynte Mathew by the story that Chryste also telleth of Habraam and the ryche gloton and Lazare in the .xvi. chapytre of Luke Than commeth Tyndale in at the laste wyth the ceremonyes of the church and the sacramentes agaynst which prykke he specyally spurneth wyth hys kybâ—de hele but it wyll nat helpe hym The gentleman is so proude that the holy sacramentes muste be his waytynge seruauntes For now he sayth that they be but superstycyouse and serue of noughte but be sette in stede of Cryste and are as they be taught the denyenge of Crystes bloude How sholde they now be the denyeng of Crystes bloud when the chyrche teacheth vs as god hath taught it that they all haue theyr strength by Crystes bloude and that in the tone of them is Crystes owne very bloude and hys blessed body bothe Bothe whyche thys heretyke denyeth and as in my fyrste boke I shewed yow bothe iesteth and scoffeth vppon the precyouse body and bloude of Cryste in the blessed sacrament of the aulter and lyke a madde frantyke fole maketh mokkes and mowys at the masse And now that ye se good chrysten reders for what doctryne Tyndale rebuketh the comon catholyke chyrche ye can not but therby perceyue what doctryne he wolde haue them teche that is to wytte that we shold haue no respecte to good workes vse no shryfte nor penaunce beware of chastyte and blesse vs well therfro let no good men praye for vs nor none that vse holy lyuynge no Francysce frere bydde any bede for vs in hys freres cote tyll he do of hys graye garmentes and cloth hym selfe cumly in gaye kendall grene sette sayntes at nought and all holy ceremonyes vsed in goddes seruyse and al 's the seuen sacrameÌ„tes to make mokkes at the masse and at Crystes body and take it for nothynge but cake brede or starche And when the clergye techeth this onys then shall they be the chyrch But for lakke of this doctryne
Rome alone And therfore that glose can nothyng serue frere Barons but yt vtterly destroyeth frere Barons false glosyng of saynte Austaynes wordes openeth well vnto vs what thynge saynte Austayne ment in this worde all faythfull men For surely neyther saynte Austayne nor that glose ment by these wordes omniuÌ„ fidelium men clene and pure wythout any spotte or wryncles no more then doth euery man that prayeth pro omnibus fidelibus that god maye make theym all good men or pro animabus omniuÌ„ fideliuÌ„ defunctorum that yt may please god to bryng them to heuen all such as are in the paynfull way thether warde men do not meane in the prayours onely such faytfull folke as neyther haue spotte nor wryncle of synne Now where that the glose sayth there muste nedes be suche a chyrch so say I to For I say playnly that y e chyrch muste nedes be For all the deuylles in hell nor all theyr instrumentes vpon erth shall neuer be able to destroy yt but pull they neuer so many from yt leue they the remanauÌ„t neuer so few yet shall the remanaunt alway be the chyrch and a well knowen chyrche to byelded vppon that hygh mountayne that is to wyt vppon Cryst that yt shall alway be syghtely can not be hydde For as our sauyour sayth The cytye that is set vppon a mountayne can not be hyd meanynge that his chyrche shold be well sene and his trew fayth well knowen and not that his chyrche in whych hys fayth sholde contynue and in whyche of whyche yt shold be lerned sholde be suche an vnknowen thynge as they that wolde lerne coulde neyther wote where to fynde yt nor of whome to aske for yt nor so myche as know yt yf yt fortuned them to fall vppon yt by happe as frere Barons wolde here brynge yt to Also the tother glose that Barons bryngeth forth De pene dis 2. Si that sayth The whole chyrche can not erre what maketh that glose for Barons He speketh agaynste Barons For Barons sayth that his owne chyrche whyche hym selfe assygneth though she can not erre whyle she cleueth to her spouse yet she may leue hym and fall from him and then erre And so this glose that Barns bryngeth saith clere agaynst hym how be yt no more then he semeth to do hym selfe For yf yt be trew that he sayth of his chyrch that she may fall from god and not heare her husband and then therby erre then is yt false that he sayth in a nother place that there muste nedes be suche a chyrche as can not erre whyche thynge he wolde proue by this glose of the lawe that saith The whole chyrch can not erre And yet ye se wel that this glose takyng yt after the beste fashyon for it saith not as Barons sayeth that the very chyrche is no mo but that very secrete sorte of faythfull folke that be wythout any errour and y â— be pure clene wythoute spot or wryncle but he sayth that the whole chyrch that is to wit the knoweÌ„ catholyque chyrche can not all erre but that though that god wold suffer some partis or meÌ„bers of his chyrch to erre yet he will not suffer the whole corps or body of hys chyrch to erre This maketh playne agaynste Barons that bryngeth it forth For it affermeth that the trewth alwaye remayneth in the knowen catholyke chyrche for of y e knoweÌ„ chyrche he speketh there I can not therfore meruayle inough of Barns in bryngyng forth these gloses for him that make so clere agaynst hym and than to se him so boldely say therupon These wordes be playne what chyrche it is that can not erre As though these gloses had sayd as he sayth y t the chyrch which caÌ„ not erre is onely the vnknoweÌ„ chyrch of folke pure clene without any spot or wryncle of which thynges neyther nother glose speketh one worde And yet where Barns sayth These wordes of these gloses be playne as playne as he maketh them of them selfe yet hath hym selfe made a playne chauÌ„ge of one worde in the tone of them to make it seme the more playne for hym For where he reherseth the glose by these wordes The hole chyrch can not erre this worde erre is not there but the very wordes be The whole chyrche can not fayle Than be not ye wote well those wordes erre fayle precysely playnely both one neyther in wrytyng nor in voyce nor yet in sygnyfycacyon no more than the two laten wordes errat and deficit For a man may fayle yet not erre As he that doth auowtry woteth wel he doth nought he fayleth and falleth from god yet erreth he not in fayth A man maye also erre yet not fayle nor fall awaye fro god syth euery errour is not dampnable As a man myght erre and not fayle nor fall fro god therby nor be dampned therfore as Iacob dyd in wenyng that Lya had bene Rachell or as hys father Isaac dyd in wenynge that Iacob had ben Esau. But I say not thys for that I care mych for his chauÌ„ge But I mene that I wolde not haue hym come forth and make such great bostes of the playnesse of the wordes whaÌ„ he hath hym selfe made a chaunge in them to make theym seme the more playne for hym and whan the wordes for all hys playne chaunge make yet so playne agaynste hym But veryly me thynketh that in one thynge he vseth no good honeste fashyon in that he sayth fyrste Thys maye be proued by our owne lawe whose wordes be these the whole chyrche can not erâ—e Also in an other place The congregacyon of faythfull folke muste nedes be which also can not erre All they that rede these wordes of Barns in englysshe he maketh thâ—â—m wene that the wordes whyche he reherseth for hys purpose were the wordes of the very lawe it selfe but then are they in dede no wordes of the laweâ— but of certayne gloses that other men haue made vppon the law And thys hym selfe confesseth in the mergent of hys boke But that he doth in laten lettynge them that vnderstande no laten wene styll that â—t were the very lawes why doth he boste that he wyll prâ—ue it by the very lawes than in stede of the lawes brynge vs forth but gloses Hys quotacyoÌ„ is in the mergyn in thys maner De pene dis 2. Si in glossa For these wordes The whole chyrche can not erre And than for the tother wordes that is The congregacyon of faythfull men must nedes be whych also can not erre his quotacyoÌ„ is in the mergent thus .24 que 1. A recta et in glossa So that he wold we sholl wene that at the leste wyse those wordes were bothe in the texte and in the glose But now who so loke vpon these two lawys shall soone se that the cause why he dyd not was bycause he durste not For the law .24 que 1. A recta speketh clere
agaynste hym For that law sayth no thynge ellys but that the very trew fayth wythout errour hath bene euer preserued in the see apostolyke and as the lawe calleth it there the mother of all chyrches the chyrche of Rome And therfore thys lawe ye se wel was not for hys purpose to brynge in but in stede of the law he layeth vs forth a pache of the glose Now the tother law de pene dis 2. Si that law durst he not brynge forth for fere of angeryng hys euangelycall brother Tyndale For that lawe is the wordes of holy saynte Hierom wherin he confuteth at great length those heretykes that than helde the selfe same heresyes that Tyndale holdeth now that they which be onys borne of god can neuer after synne And the tother that he which after his baptysme doth onys any dedely synne shall neuer gete forgyuenes after These two deuelysshe heresyes which Tyndale hath now begon agayn in hys false exposycyon of the fyrst pystle of saynt IohnÌ„ which false exposycyon of hys I haue before coÌ„futed in my fourth boke holy saynt Hierom doth at good length openly confute in the wordes whiche are there by Graciane incorporate in the decrees whiche wordes yf my selfe hadde remembred in tyme I wolde haue broughte theym in in the stede of myne owne and wolde peraduenture haue lefte myne owne out for theym For there sayeth saynte Hierome the selfe same thynges agaynst those other heretykes of old y t I say there agaynst thys new and as he better coulde sayth them farre better thaÌ„ euer I shal be able as I wold make you sone perceyue yf I coulde in translatynge hys wordes into our englyshe tong gyue it the quyknesse and strength that he gyueth it in the laten But as I sayd thys lawe durste not frere Barns bryng in for fere of Tyndale whyche wolde for hurtynge of hys heresyes haue founden hym braulynge inough for all hys lyfe after But Barns wyll I warraunt you gyue hym no suche occasyon of dyspleasure Now yf Barons answere me that he hadde no cause to bryng in any of both those lawes syth they made no thyng for hys purpose but the gloses onely I shall tell hym agayne that than he sholde not haue sayed it that he wolde proue hys purpose by the lawes but by the gloses onely And I say also that than he shold haue lefte out the gloses to For as the lawes proue not hys purpose no more do the gloses neyther as I haue clerely declared you And yet whan he hath handeled hym self so falsely and yet so folyshly therwyth in the alledgynge of these lawes that yf he hadde any sparke of shame lefte in hys body he myghte not well loke any man in the face for fere that these hys false folyes were espyed it is now a worlde to se wyth what a corage and boldenesse he bosteth and reioyceth and what a ioye he maketh as he were euyn made a kynge by the fyndynge of a bene in a chrystmas cake For now he calleth hys lordes about hym and sayth Now my lordes gather you all to gyther wyth all the lawes that ye can make and all the holynesse that you can deuyse and crye the chyrche the chyrche and the counseâ—s the counsels that were lawfully gathered in the power of the holy goste all thys may you saye and yet lye And yf you haue not in dede the holy goste within you and yf you do heare any other voyce than Chrystes than are you not of the chyrche but of the deuyll and theuys and murtherers as Chryste sayth For you come afore hym that is you come into the foulde of Chryst wythout hym you brynge not his voyce but you come with your owne voyce with youre owne statutes wyth your owne worde and with your owne â—andamus mandamus praecipimus praecipimus excommunicamus excoÌ„municamus These be the voyces of murtherers and theuys and not of Chryste Therfore you can not but erre For you be not taught of god you haue not the holy oyntemente you haue not the worde of god for you you here not the voyce of the trewe sheaperd Therfore must you nedes erre in all your counselles what grounde or colour of grounde hath he to reigne so lordely and rayle so ryally vppon all the lawes May he so boldely sette them all at nought bycause hym selfe hath so falsely bylyed twayne and so folyshely handeled theyr gloses No Sowdan in a stage play may make mo braggyng bostys nor ronne out in mo frantike ragys than may frere fraÌ„tyke Barns yf he take thys for reason For here speking of lawes and layeng but the gloses and the lawes agaynst hym and hys gloses nothynge for hym yet as though all the worlde were hys he falleth forth in a rage agaynste all lawys and all generall counsayles and sayth They haue not the voyce of god with them but they muste nedes erre in all theyr counsayles by cause they say mandamus mandamus praecipimus praecipimus excommunicamus excommunicamus For he sayth that these wordes be the voyces of murtherers and theuys and not of Cryste Thys felow cometh forth wyth a prowde face vpon all the worlde whan he wolde by his pryncely authoryte more than an imperyall maiestye proclayme all men for murderers and theuys that dare be so bolde as to vse any of these wordes mandamus precipimus or excoÌ„municamus These wordes I se not sent out by murtherers nor theuys but by prynces and rulers agaynst murderers and theuys and agaynst all other vycyouse and mysse ruled persons and amonge other agaynste vngraciouse heretykes which is all thys mannys gryefe And that these wordes of coÌ„maundynge haue bene vsed by folke somwhat better then theuys and murderers may appere by the scrypture it selfe For the holy euâ—ngelyste saynt Marke sayeth of our sauyour thus He commaunded hys apostles that they sholl cary no thynge wyth them as they went by the waye And saynt Poule wryteth vnto the Thessalonyes in thys wyse O my bretherne I truste in god of yow that ye kepe and wyll kepe all thynges that I haue commaunded you And agayne to Timothe thus he sayth I commaunde the before god c. And thus frere Barns maye se that the wordes of commaundynge be not alwaye the voyce of murderers and theuys But all the greate gryefe of thys mater is in excommunicamus For that worde wolde frere Barns haue daÌ„pned But yet muste he consyder that saynt Poule hym selfe vsed eyther that same worde or some other in the language that he spake when he dyd excommunycate and accurse Hymineus and AlexaÌ„der and bytoke them to the deuyll to teche them to leue theyr blasphemy suche as these heretyques vse now and yet peraduenture lesse for greater yt coulde not be Saynte Poule also commaunded the Corynthies that they shold excoÌ„municate and accurse oute of theyr coÌ„pany that incestuouse lecherour that had abused his own faders wyfe For thus he sayth in the fyrst pystle to the Corynthies Trewly I