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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A47927 Toleration discuss'd by Roger L'Estrange. L'Estrange, Roger, Sir, 1616-1704. 1663 (1663) Wing L1315; ESTC R7093 72,161 120

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and your Cause out of Countenance Scrup. You must understand that though my Reason lies against Uniformity yet I 'm no Advocate for Anarchy and 't is with Non-conformists as with Other People there are Good and Bad of All Sorts But to go with the Moderate Would you have All mens Consciences Govern'd by the same Rule when 't is Impossible to bring them All to the same Mind Conf. Better Particulars suffer for Incompliance with the Publique than the Publique suffer for Complying with Particulars Uniformity is the Ciment of both Christian and Civil Societies Take That away and the Parts drop from the Body one piece falls from Another The Magistrate for Order's sake requires Uniformity You and your Associates Oppose it upon a Plea of Conscience and the Question is Whether He shall Over-Rule Your Opinions or You Over-Rule His Authority This Dispute begets a War for want of a Iudge and to Prevent that Mischief I offer that a Iudge is Necessary Or put it Thus You and I Differ and Possibly we are Both of us in the Wrong but most certainly we are not Both in the Right and yet neither of us but thinks well enough of his own Opinion What 's to be done in This Case shall we wrangle Eternally Scrup. No Wee 'll rather put the matter to Arbitration Conf. Well! but the Arbiter himself is Fallible and may Mistake too or let him have the Wisdome of an Angel he cannot please us Both for That which seems Right to the One will appear Wrong to the Other Shall we stand to his Award what ever it be If not take into your Thought These Consequences You Refuse to submit because 't is Wrong I may refuse by the same Reason though it be Right for every Man's Reason is of Equal Force where there is no Common and Representative Reason to Bind All So that by your Reckoning Every man is in the Right to Himself and in the Wrong to all the World beside every man's hand is against his Brother and his Brother 's against Him At least if I deceive not my self in my perswasion that Nature never produc'd Two persons in all points of the same Judgment Now if you can neither deny Confusion to be the Natural Effect of This Liberty of Judgment nor the want of a Regulating and Decretory Sentence to be the manifest Cause of This Confusion I hope you 'll Grant me the Necessity of an Unaccomptable Judge Scru. Is not the Word of God a sufficient Iudge Conf. No That 's no Iudge but a Rule for Christians to Iudge by and the Great hazard lies upon the Meaning of That Rule What swarms of Heresies have Over-spread This Land since the Bible has been deliver'd up to the Interpretation of Private Spirits Scrup. You say well if you could direct me to a Iudge that we might All Relie upon Conf. And You say something too if you could make appear that None at All is better then the best we have or that Popular Errours Numberless and Inevitable with the Dissolution of Communities to boot are to be preferr'd to the few and only Possible Failings of Authority attended with Peace and Agreement But to come to the short of the Question This is it Whether will you rather have One fallible Iudge or a Million of Damnable Heresies Scrup. Truly as you have reduc'd it to a Certainty of Peace the One way and to as great a Certainty of Discord the Other to a Certainty of Many Errours without a Iudge and to a bare Possibility of some few with One I am content in this Particular to think a Final Iudge Necessary Conf. If you find it so in the Church sure you will not Dispute it in the State especially against an experience too the most forcible of all Reasons We were never troubled with Constructive Necessities with Cavils about the Receptacle of Power and the Limits of Obedience with Distinctions betwixt the Political and the Natural Right of the People the Legal and Personal Will of the Prince and betwixt the Equity and Letter of the Law till Judgment was forc'd from its Proper Course and Channel and the Decision of Right and Wrong committed to the Frivolous and Arbitrary Determinations of the Multitude Scrup. Pray'e by your Leave I am as much for a Iudge as You but not for One Judge to All Purposes nor I confess for any Iudge so Absolute as you would have him Conf. I tell ye again A Iudge and no Absolute Judge is No Judge and you shall as soon find the End of a Circle as of a Controversie by such a Iudge Nor is it my Meaning that One Iudge should serve for All purposes Scrup. Will you Divide your Matter then and Assign to every Judicable Point his Proper Judge Conf. You say well For truly I do not take the Magistrate to be any more a Judge of My Conscience than I am of His. Scrup. 'T is very Right and it were an Encrochement upon the Prerogative of God Himself for him to Challenge it Conf. How comes it now that we that Agree so well i' the End should Differ so much ' i th' Way to 't But I hope the clearing of the next point will set us Through-Right For after the setling of the Iudge we have nothing further to do but to Submit and so wee 'll Forward SECT XIV The Three great Iudges of Mankind are GOD MAGISTRATES and CONSCIENCE Conf. SOme things we do as Men other things as Men in Society and some again as Christians In the first place we are acted by the Law of Individuals which Law is in the second place Subjected to That of Government and Both these Lawes are in the third place Subordinate to That of Religion i. e. the Law of God's Reveal'd Will. So that the Three great Judges of Mankind are God Magistrates and Conscience Man as consisting of Soul and Body may be again Subdivided within Himself Take him in his Lower Capacity and hee 's sway'd by the General Law of Animal Nature but in his Divine part you 'll find him Govern'd by the Nobler Law of Refin'd Reason which Reason in some Respects may be call'd Prudence and in others Conscience according as 't is variously Exercis'd The things which we do purely as Men abstracted from any Ingredients of Policy or Regulated Religion are either Natural Actions Prudential or Moral Of the First sort are Those Actions to which we are prompted by a Natural Impulse in order to the Conservation of Life and Beeing Of the Third sort are such Actions as we perform in Obedience to Moral Principles which are no other than the Divine Will veil'd under the Dictate of Humane Reason and betwixt These Two lies the Region of Middle Actions that is of such Actions as although not of simple and strict Necessity either to Life or Virtue are notwithstanding Useful and Commodious for the Guidance and Comfort of the One and for the Practice of the Other The Accurate
let the men that Govern'd the Design be allow'd for Politicians still I maintain that This Party though endu'd with the Wisdom of Angels cannot in This Iuncture no not in This Age pretend again to be considerable Ze. That 's sooner said then prov'd Conf. Truly I think not much in regard that both Their Wayes and their Persons are too well Known to be either Suffer'd or Credited In Order to the late Warr the Party had Two Games to play for they were to make an Interest both with the King and with the People wherein their Master-piece was shew'd imprevailing with both King and People to Contribute to their own undoing To which End They first Acquainted Themselves with his Majesties Dearest Inclinations and Next with the Niceties and Distresses of his Government and Fortune of which Discovery they made such use as Enabled Them to Overturn the Order both of Church and State and to perfect their long-Projected Reformation For the late King 's Predominant Affection being Piety and Compassion and his most Dangerous Distress being want of Money the Politicks of the Faction appear'd in nothing more than in Working upon his Majestye's Goodness and Necessities Their Practices upon the People were chiefly employ'd upon the Two Things which of all Others they do the least understand and the most furiously pursue to wit Religion and Liberty wherein the Ministers were the Prime Instruments and Alaham in the words of the Excellent Lord Brook was their Instructor Preach you with fiery tongue distinguish Might Tyrants from Kings duties in question bring 'Twixt God and Man where power infinite Compar'd makes finite power a scornfull thing Safely so craft may with the truth give light To Iudge of Crowns without enammelling And bring contempt upon the Monarchs State Where straight unhallowed power hath peoples hate Glaunce at Prerogatives Indefinite Tax Customs Warrs and Lawes all gathering Censure Kings faults their Spies and Favourites Holiness hath a Priviledge to sting Men be not Wise bitterness from zeal of spirit Is hardly Iudg'd the envy of a King Makes People Like reproof of Majesty Where God seems great in Priests audacity And when mens minds thus tun'd and tempted are To change with Arguments 'gainst present times Then Hope awakes and man's Ambition climes This was the Artifice by which the Faction skrew'd Themselves formerly into an Interest but alas what would the same Thing over again avail them now when his Majesty ha's but to look behind him upon the sad Fate of his Royal Father to secure Himself against all Possibility of Another Imposture And for the Multitude they must be worse than Brutes in case of any New Attempt ever to Engage against This King upon any Man's Credit that had his Hand in the Death of the Last so that we are both Wiser and Surer at Present then we were Twenty years agoe upon a double Accompt First the Calamityes of the Last Warr are still fresh in our Remembrance and I do not find the People generally so sanctifi'd by their Experience but they had rather lye still for their Real Profit then Fight it over again for the Sound of Religion Secondly We are pre-acquainted with the most likely Instruments and Pretences of Raising any New Troubles As for the Unity ye boast of 't is very true that the Non-conformists Agreed against the Publique till they found it Impossible for them any longer to Agree among Themselves And there 's the Utmost of their Unity Their Resolution indeed I cannot Deny but it comes up to That in th' Epigram That He that Dares be Damn'd Dares more than fight Scrup. Wee shall do our Cause an Injury to press too farr upon Reason of State in Matter of Religion Conf. Indeed I think you 'l find it a hard Task to make it out to any Man of Reason that the Kingdom will be either the Better for Granting you a Toleration or the Worse for Refusing it but 't is to be hop'd that your Merits will plead better for you then your Politicks SECT V. The Non-Conformists Plea for TOLERATION from the Merits of the Party Conf. WHat ha's your Party Gentlemen Merited from the Publique that an Exception to a General Rule should be Granted in Your Favour Name your services Ze. Wee ventur'd All to save the Life of the Late King Conf. And yet Ye ventur'd more to Take it away for Ye did but Talk for the One and Ye Fought for the Other Ze. We ever Abominated the Thought of Murthering him Conf. You should have Abominated the Money too for which Ye Sold him Scrup. Did Wee sell him Conf. No You were the Purchasers Ze. Did not the Presbyterians Vote His Majesties Concessions a Ground for a Treaty Conf. Yes but withall they held him up to Conditions worse than Death it self and in short They Deliver'd Him up when they might have Preserv'd Him and they Stickled for Him when they knew they could do Him no Good Ze. What Design could They have in That Conf. They might have the same Design in -48. which they had in -41. for ought that I know To make a Party by 't and set up a Presbyterian Interest in the Kings Name Ze. All the World knowes that we were so much afflicted for his Sacred Majesties Distress that we had many solemn Dayes of Humiliation for it Conf. So ye had for his Successes for fear he should get the better of ye and you had your Dayes of Thanksgiving too for his Dysasters Ze. What do ye think of Preston-Fight was That a Iuggle too Conf. I think ye should do well to let that Action sleep for the Honour of the Kirk for though the Cavaliers found it Great Earnest 't is shrewdly suspected that there was foul play among the Brethren Ze. Pray'e let mee ask you One Question Who Brought in This King Conf. They that would not suffer You to keep him out That Party that by a Restless and Incessant Loyalty hinder'd your Establishments Ze. And what do ye think of the Sccluded Members Conf. I think a New Choyce would have done the Kings business every jot as well and Matters were then at That pass that One of the Two was unavoydable In fine 't is allow'd at all hands that the Prime Single Instrument of his Majestyes Restauration was the Duke of Albemarle But if you come to Partyes the very Fact appears against ye For though all possible Industry was employ'd to make the Next Choyce totally Presbyterian by Disabling all such Persons and their Sons as in effect had serv'd the King since -41. without manifesting their Repentance for it since Yet so strong was the General Vote of the People for the Kings True Interest and against All Factions that All Endeavour was too little to Leaven the next Convention as was Design'd If ye have no more to say for the Merits of your Party wee 'l pass on to the Merits of your Cause Ze. Do so and wee 'l give you the Hearing SECT VI.
disquisition of This Interest laies the Axe to the Root of the Question for nothing has Embroyl'd us more then the Mistaken Rights of Individuals which Mistakes being once Clear'd by laying open the Subordination of several Claims and Powers every man may take a Distinct view of his Own Province Zea. Proceed Regularly n●●● and State These Subordinations as you go Conf. Content and we are now upon the Right of Individuals in which Naked simplicity of considering MAN without any regard to the ordinary motions of Providence in the Order and Regiment of the world we shall yet find a manifest Subordination within Himself and the Law of Sense under the Dominion of the Law of Reason in the same Subject These are the Laws which the Apostle calls the Law of his Members and the Law of his Will. The Former and the less Excellent Law is the Law Sensitive which is no other than the Law of Self-preservation indeed the supreme Law of Animal Beings as of Rationals the Lowest This Law Sensitive is effectually the Manifestation of God in the Creature for what Sense does Nature does and what Nature does God does Zea. But what is That Power which you call Nature Conf. It is the Ordinary working of God in all his Creatures by virtue of which Divine Influence every thing is mov'd to seek the utmost Perfection whereof it is Capable As for the purpose The perfection of Man is the Congruity of his Actions with his Reason which is nothing else but That which we call VIRTUE The Perfection of Beasts is a degree Lower they are mov'd only by a Sensual Impulse toward what 's convenient for them and when they have it they Rest. Scrup. I can but Laugh when people are Gravell'd to see how they run to their Impulses and Occult Qualities which is but a more Learned way of saying They don't know what Pray'e spare me a word what Difference is there betwixt Their Impulse and Our Choyce Conf. Pre'thee be Quiet unless thou hast a mind to have a Toleration for thy Dog Their Impulse carries them on through a Sensitive Search not any Deliberative Discourse and no Election neither at last but only the simple Prosecution of a Determinate Appetite without Imagining any Proportion betwixt the Means and the End Scrup. But still we find that there is a Proportion and the Motion appears to Us according to the Method of Reason and Orderly proceeding from Question to Resolution Conf. Is it Reason think ye that makes a Dog follow his Nose and hunt for Meat when hee 's Hungry Or will ye call it Choyce if he leaves a Turfe for a Bone In short Hee 's mov'd by Instinct toward the End and Sense carries him through the Means Scrup. But why should the same Process of Means and the same Application of Causes be Ascrib'd only to Instinct in Brutes and to Reason in Man Conf. You must take notice that all Natural Operations are Regular and Ordinate by what means soever perform'd but it does not follow because the Method is according to Reason that therefore the Instrument must be Reasonable But to Mind our Business The Law of Self-Preservation is a Law Common to Beasts with Men but not of Equal Force for Their Sovereign Interest is Life Ours is Virtue and therefore your Argument for Defensive Arms upon Pretext of That Extremity was but a Brutish Plea For if the Consideration of Virtue be not above That of Life Where lies the Advantage of our Reason Scrup. But when the Death is Certain and the Virtue Doubtfull who shall decide the Question Conf. In a Case Abstracted from the Tyes and Duties of Religion and Government Every Mans Reason Sits as Iudge upon his own Life As for Instance You 're in the Hands of Thieves and upon This Condition Either to Take a False Oath or to Lose your Life Your Conscience tells ye you must rather Perish But if without violence to a Superiour Duty you can preserve your Self you 're your own Murderer if you do not Thus far I think wee 're safe and I suppose Agreed that Every Individual is to Govern himself by his Natural Conscience but when the several Particulars come to be Bundled up in one Community the Case is Otherwise Scrup. I am sorry to hear ye say That Why should not every Man be Govern'd by his Own Conscience as well in Consort as in Solitude or Will ye have it that our Duty to God ceases in the Act of becoming Subjects to a Civil Magistrate Conf. Not so quick and you shall have it As to your Conscience you are as Free now as you were before but your Body is no longer your Own after you 're once admitted a Member of a Society and There 's the Difference You were your Own servant before and now you are the King 's for what is Government but the Wisdom Resolve and Force of Every Particular gather'd into One Understanding Will and Body and This comes up to What I have already deliver'd that Whatsoever God has left Indifferent is the Subject of Humane Power Scrup. But who shall be Judg of what 's Indifferent Conf. Wee 'l scan That the very next thing we doe You are already satisfi'd that an Authoris'd Iudg is Absolutely Necessary in Order to the Peace of Church and State and to the Ending of all Publique Differences but we are not yet Agreed upon our Judges or if we were yet in Regard our Judges are but Men and so may Erre Infallibility being departed with Christ and his Apostles in lieu of which Living and Infallible Guides God has in Providence given us a Plain and Infallible Rule It may withall be taken into thought How far a Private Judge may be Allow'd to Opine against a Publique in Case of a Reluctant Conscience and in some sort to judge his Iudg. Scrup. You say very well for place the Ultimate Decision where you will 't is as you said before An Infallible Determination as to the Strife but not so as to the Truth and it comes to This at last that every man in some Degree Re-judges his Judge If I am fully convinc'd either that the Command is sinfull in it self or the Opinion Wicked I am neither to Obey the One nor to Embrace the Other as being ty'd up by the General Obligation of rather Obeying and Believing God then Man Nay more If in Obedience to the Magistrate I commit a sin against God and that Ignorantly too That very Act in Ignorance is Criminal if I had the Means of being better Enform'd for certainly no Humane Respect can justifie an Offence against God Now if I am bound to do nothing that is Ill I am likewise bound before I do anything to satisfie my self whether it be Ill or no for otherwise I may swallow a false Religion for a True and be Damn'd at Last for not Minding what I Did Which I take to be Proof sufficient that no man is so Implicitly