then himselfe about the truth and true visibilitie of the Church of Rome vseth all kind of sophistrie and deceit as may appeare both by the whole Discourse and by euery part and parcell thereof In the whole you shall perceiue two points of notable sophistrie common to him with all those that maintaine bad causes One is Beggery commonly called of the Logitians Petitio principij which proueth one obscure or vncertaine thing by another or would haue that to be granted which reason denyeth Another is Disorder which is Horaces Humano capiti c. and Ouids Rudis indigestaque moles A confused heape of independencies like a Lotterers pitcher full of scrowles shuffled together without any reference one to another His Beggery will soone appeare if we resolue this dispute into that Enthymeme whereof it wholly consisteth which is this S. Iohn saith The second Angell poured out his viall vpon the Sâ—a and it became as the blood of a dead man and euery liuing soule dyed in the sea Ergo the Church of Rome is neyther a true Church nor a true visible Church To which I may say farre better then Bishop said to Perkins Apply Iohn Barber and thou shalt haue a new paire of Sizors Whether I wrong him or no I referre my selfe to the censure of euery iudicious Reader And if I wrong him not euery man may see that hee beggeth two things which no good Diuine may yeeld vnto him One is that an Allegoricall Prophecie such as this is may bee laid for a good foundation whereon to frame an Argument to decide a Controuersie in Diuinitie contrary to the old Maxime Theologia symbolica non est argumentatiua Allegories in diuinitie afford no good arguments Especially if they be Prophecies whereof there may be doubt whether they be fulfilled or no in which case the tryall is to examine the perspicuitie thereof for a Prophecie as of all Scriptures it is most obscure before it be fulfilled so when it is fulfilled it is of all other most cleare and easie This therefore being an Allegory and propheticall and retaining the aenigmaticall darknesse which it had originally as appeareth by the various interpretations of the Learned euery day renewed I for my part cannot suppose it to be yet accomplished and so to me it is vnfit for that vse to which hee hath imployed it The other point of his Beggerie is That his owne priuate interpretation of these words may be allowed as the true meaning of the holy Ghost which is That by the Sea we are to vnderstand the Doctrines of the Councel of Trent by the blood the abominable corruptions therof by the Angel Chemnitius and other learned men of that time that examined it and by the pouring out of the viall their preachings and writings All which hee hath borrowed from Brightman whom notwithstanding elsewhere he forsaketh But now what if we deny him this interpretation and require some proofe hereof what will he say then Surely hee is vtterly disappointed and all his building falls to the ground If he say we must shew some reason for our denyall besides that we haue shewed some already it would be knowne why we may not as well deny as he affirme without reason If this course bee good euery mans priuate fantasie especially if he can make some shew of probability must bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Reuelations Reuelation And then why may not Bellarmines interpretation of the ninth cap. Oratione in Scholis habita wherein he turnes all vpon Luther and the Lutherans passe for current But lest I may seeme to seeke euasions I will doe that against him which he cannot or at least hath not yet done for himselfe I will shew some reason for my denyall and leaue it to the iudgement of the Learned And because the ground of all is that the Councell of Trent or the doctrines thereof are that bloody sea I suppose it sufficient if I proue it to bee otherwise to turne vp all his phantasticall Cauillation First therefore I proue it ex praeconcessis for hee granteth that the same Sea whereof cap. 8. r. the third part was turned into blood is here wholly turned thereinto Now Brightman whom in this point he followeth will haue that third part of the Sea to bee the doctrine of Europe the third part of the Christian world And then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the whole sea is the doctrine of the whole Christian world But the doctrine of the Councell of Trent is not the doctrine of the whole Christian world Ergo it is not the Sea here mentioned by S. Iohn Secondly vpon the powring out of this second Viall this sea is turned into congealed and putrified blood which by his interpretation signifieth that by the conclusions of the Councell of Trent Romes doctrines are become mortall and damnable and this puts a difference betweene the state of Romes doctrines before the Councel of Trent while as yet they were in their growing and after it Before there was some fresh water c. but after none at all So saith he But I say that the Councell of Trent hath not a whit corrupted Romes Doctrines more than they were along time before Ergo the Councell of Trents conclusions are not here to be vnderstood I need not take paines in the proofe hereof because the learned doe not accuse it of this fault but that whereas it promised reformation and that it was expected ther from it cosened the world and in stead of reforming confirmed the foule corruptions of the religion and doctrine of the Church which formerly had preuailed Indeed Master Crashaw whose memory for old acquaintance is pretious to me noteth one and but one point of doctrine for the other is only for practice wherein the Councell of Trent hath added some thing to the former corruptions which is the equalizing of the Apocrypha with the Canonicall books of Scripture But if we consider how he interpreteth himselfe that no Councell before had done the like it will appeare that hee denyeth not but that euen that corruption also was inueterate â—efore the Councell of Trent Thirdly I say that the Councell of Trent hath reformed Romes doctrine and made it at least in one point better then it was before Ergo it is not here to be vnderstood The point is this that there is no naturall ability in a man to prepare himselfe for grace and so no merit of congruity in which regard Stapleton saith Meritum ex congruo explosum est a point of no small moment in these dayes Fourthly I say that there is as much fresh water in Romes doctrines since the Councell of Trent as there was before Ergo it is not here to bee vnderstood This I proue by the doctrine of the Tridentine Catechisme in euery part whereof there is sufficient quantity of sauing doctrine for those that to vse your owne words can search and find it out separating the good from the bad and truth from errour as
full to Vega who denieth infallible certaintie of saluation because no man can haue infallible certainty of the truth of his baptisme for want of the like certainty of the Priests intention but on the contrary for morall and coniecturall certainty he acknowledgeth that a man may and ought to haue it of the Priests intention vnlesse hee declare his naughty minde by some outward signe and so of the truth of his baptisme and lastly of his owne saluation For which distinction see Bellarmine vbi supra § Respondeo non debere hominem These things premised his Arguments are easily answered First therefore the Assumption of the last is denied for they professe themselues able to demonstrate both seuerally and together that they are true members of the true Church because they haue sufficient certaintie of the truth of their Baptisme because they haue a like sufficient certaintie of the Priests intent on leaning secrets vnto God and so all that is builded hereon that the Church cannot demonstrate her selfe to bee a true Church falls flat to the ground which may also be said of the intention of the Bishop in ordaining Secondly how can hee proue the Assumption vnlesse he goe through all the Church of Rome from man to man and from woman to woman and examine what they can say for the truth of their Baptisme It is twenty to one but some one or other can shew a Reuelation that the Priest had an actuall intention to doe as the Church doth in baptising him Thirdly they say they can say as much to assure them of the Priests intention in their Baptisme as we which are baptised in our infancie can say to assure vs that we were baptised which is onely the Church booke and testimonie of our Parents Godfathers Godmothers and other friends which is onely humane morall coniecturall assurance and not diuine and infallible See Bellarmine vbi supra § Et Nota. So much for the fourth The last Argument pag. 32. is this That Church which wants the ordinary meanes of saluation is no true Church But the Church of Rome wants the ordinary meanes of saluation the preaching and hearing of the Gospell yea it teacheth hers to hate and abhorre it and to call it heresie Ergo. I answer they want it they want it not They hate it and they hate it not They want and hate the soundnes and puritie thereof as it is enioyed in the Reformed Churches but they neither want nor hate it as it is corrupted by their owne traditions which cannot wholly depriue it of all sauing vertue as hath been already prooued And why I pray should wee not bee content in common commiseration to beare with them in this case as we doe with those people which dwell in fenny foggy marish grounds and countries who comming into places of fresh ayre and healthy dyet doe complaine that it is not good nor wholsome because it agrees not with their more grosse constitution If another man liue by poysoned meates I will not enuie him so long as I feede on that which is sound and mans meate as wee say And so much for his Arguments Thus haue I shewed Mr. Burtons second point of disorder in misplacing his Arguments and haue as well as I can righted it and answered them The third and last followes which are his idle Repetitions and Tautologies which if they were taken out of his booke it would bee by the one halfe lesse then it is as will appeare by the answer to the particulars Now here I must craue fauor of the Christian Reader that being constrained by the misbehauiour of our aduersary to lay open his foule ouer-sights in charging the Church of Rome the Councell of Trent and Bellarmine with vntruths which hee ought not to haue done hee would not suppose me to be any whit inclining or addicted to Poperie as the manner of the world is now-a dayes No I praise God I am as farr from Popery as M. Burton himselfe is or can be But I would not haue men eyther to maintaine bad causes against the Church of Rome or to maintaine good causes with bad arguments and least of all to maintaine bad causes with worse arguments as I know too many haue done to our no little disaduantage It is an excellent point of manhood to let the enemy haue his vtmost due and not to â—eelie to ouercome him by base and cowardly meanes This I desire and haue alwayes endeoured and this is all which hitherto I haue done in this Treatise or purpose to doe hereafter And if the good Reader will be placed to beleeue mee and to grant me this reasonable motion I hope hee shall perceiue that I haue not abused either him or mine aduersary or my cause or my Lord whose cause I haue vndertaken or my selfe in vndertaking it and so I proceede BVRTON Before wee proceede to the third Viall for the fuller confirmation of what hath beene said of the estate of the church of Rome whose Sea of doctrines is all turned into mortall blood in the second viall it will bee very requisite here to discusse one question Whether the Church of Rome be eyther a true Church or a true visible Church Answer Here is a long Exordium to a short Cause of which it may truely be said Causaanceps Exordium vitiosum Such a Cause such an Exordium Such a Cup such a Couer In which containing a whole lease hee craueth fauour and attention after the manner of the Orators from three Rhetoricall arguments The qualitie of the question His owne good handling there of and The condition of his owne person The question affords him two fauourable arguments One for that it is requisite to be discussed in this place Another for that it is waightie and of great moment The necessitie of the discussion is for the fuller confirmation of that hee hath said of the Church of Rome And indeede it is very necessary that hee proue and that very substantially and soundly as hee saith in the words following That the Church of Rome is neyther a true nor a true visible Church or else all hee hath said is nor worth a rush For if it be then is not her Sea of Doctrines turned into mortall blood in this second Viall nor the Councell of Trent this Sea of mortall blood nor Chemnitius the Angell nor any thing so as hee hath said But marke here I pray his Circulation Before he proued the Church of Rome to bee no true Church because all her doctrines are mortall and now hee proues all her doctrines to be mortall because 〈◊〉 is no true Church which manner of reasoning goes for currant with him 〈◊〉 all this part of his Treatise But let that passe Now if his answers proue no better then his arguments haue done as I doubt they will not it had beene farre more requisite for him to haue left this question altogether indiscussed in this place and to haue proceeded directly to the third
THE STATE OF THE NOW-ROMANE CHVRCH Discussed By way of vindication of the Right Reuerend Father in God the Lord Bishop of EXCETER From the weake cauills of HENRY BVRTON By H. C. LONDON Printed for Nathaniel Butter 1629. TO THE RIGHT REuerend Father in GOD IOSEPH by the providence of God Lord Bishop of Exeter Grace mercy and peace be multiplied Right Reuerend and Honourable MY very good Lord It was well said of old Let Baal plead for himselfe And it may be said as wel now Let Babel plead for her self yea let him be blessed that dasheth her little ones against the stones And let it be done to her as shee hath done to others And let all the people of God say Amen Neuerthelesse herein if in any thing in the world great arte and skill is to be used For it is not for every fresh water souldier to fight against Babel The Poet saith In vitium ducil culpae fuga si caret arte And it is a true saying that God loues Aduerbs better then Adiectiues so as if a man doe good things and doe them not well hee is an offender notwithstanding so is it in this case he that will make warre against Babel and will not do more hurt then good had need to bee well prouided and aduised Plutarch makes report of one who vnaduisedly casting a stone at a dogge hit and hurt his owne mother and so many there are who ignorantly and inconsiderately contending against Babel doe grieuously wound the Church of God and as your Lordship saith truly do more wrong to their cause then to their aduersaries If any man be ignorant how this may be and bee willing to learne you haue well informed him in your last Book of the Old Religion wherin you make it plaine that though Rome bee Babel yet so long as she is Babel she shall haue a people of God in her so that as Saint Paul said They are not all Israel that are of Israel so may wee in this case They are not all Babel that are in Babel and communicate with Babel If then a man haue not a spirituall eye to distinguish betweene Babel and the people of God in Babel how much mischiefe may hee doe in quarelling with Babel I would wee had not too much experience hereof in some who make good your Lordships too just censure that Zeale transports them to such a detestation of the Romane Church as if it were all error no Church and so that no soule can be saued therein A fearfull and heauie doome of which a man may say as Saint Bernard said in another case Solo auditu contremisco I tremble at the very hearing of it Now your Lordship as a good Souldier of Iesus Christ and one of the Colonels of the spirituall Armie of the Lord of hoasts endeuouring amongst other errors to reforme this and to bring all into right and perfect order that is to traine all the souldiers vnder your regiment according to the old discipline which is to entend to cure Babel and not to destroy her before the time that it may truly be said of them as well as of others We would haue cured Babel but she would not be cured the time of curing being not past so long as it is called to day There are risen vp I know not what hot-spurres and bold Braggadochioes in the Campe who mutinouslie doe turne their weapons from Babel against you as if you were therefore become their enemy because you tell them the truth And amongst others one Master Henry Burton hath publikely taken the quarrell vpon himselfe in the name of all the rest who being otherwise a man of good parts as it should seem and hauing a good meaning to doe Gods Church some seruice yet ouerweening himselfe and forgetting his place hath giuen the common aduersary too much aduantage against vs all For being defectiue in Logick our best engine after the word of God and trusting to nothing but meer sophistry and failing in the truth or true meaning of all his allegations he hath not onely shamed himselfe but put vs all out of order hindred our good proceedings weakned our owne forces by diuision and strengthned the enemy Whereupon it being not any way conuenient that your Lordship should enter into the lists with him vpon an incident occasion of speech about this matter in the beginning of September it pleased you to accept an offer of my seruice in this businesse although vpon beare-say onely at that time and not otherwise I had notice of his misbehauiour Here therefore I tender vnto your Lordship some testimony not so much of the old innocent familiarity which almost from the cradle hath beene betweene vs as of my readiness to performe all parts of that Canonicall obedience which being due to all my Diocesans I am most joyfull to yeeld vnto you aboue and before all the men in the world Accept then I beseech you and protect this vnworthy seueÌ„ daies defence of your worthy cause protect it I say thogh not as your owne being vnworthy yet for your owne in respect of the worthie cause which is your owne And so I shall be encouraged to performe all offices not onely to my ancientest nearest dearest and greatest friend but also to my Bishop Lord and Gouernour and euer rest Your Lordships Chaplaine in all humility to be commanded Hugh Cholmeley TO M. HENRY BVRTON Rector of St. Mathewes in Fridayâ—â—â—â—â— in London H. C. Rector of the portion of Clare in the Parish of Tyverton in Devon sendeth greeting MAster Burton as you are a man I altogether vnknowne to me but onely by your writings so I am not desirous to bee your aduersary in any the least point of truth I loue you in the truth and I oppose you in loue of the truth And if you can soundly and substantially conuince me of vntruth I professe before God and the world that I will yeeld vnto you without any more adoe being already willing to bee ouercome of the truth in this cause You need not disclaime the match I suppose my selfe your equall for time studies or labour and if your desire be sincere onely to finde out the truth Loe I am as you are Passe by our Reuerend Diocesan and let me beare the brunt of this skirmish Your victory shall be great enough and your foile farre more easie and tolerable Your louing friend and fellow Labourer in the work of the LORD H. C. THE STATE OF the Now Romane CHVRCH THere can be no more euident signe of a bad cause then if it be handled falsly and sophistically for as Euripides saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The truth is sound her words are plaine Falshood is sicke she needs must faine Which being so we may soone perceiue what we are to thinke of Mr. Burtons cause who hauing taken vpon himselfe to oppose men euery way better