as of divine right which because they think to be wrong they will rather reject them then ratifie them under a title of so high a strain Answ 1. Not onely Divines but divers i Sir Ed. Coke in his second Report in the Archb of Can. his case f. 49. b. And so the Authour of the foregoing learned Work others who are men of very eminent note hold Tithes to be due by divine right and some of them have undertaken to prove them so and to answer all objections against them which how far they have performed is left to the judgement of indifferent Readers 2. It is more like that as both religion and reason will dictate unto them they will be the more wary how they take them away lest if that tenure should prove true they should be found guilty of the sin of sacriledge that they should abolish them and that they will seriously search and enquire into the ground of that title and while they are in doubt that they will resolve of the safest course which is not to repeal them for as we must forbear to feed of meats of which another saith that they are sacrificed to idols 2 Cor. 10.28 for his sake that saith it though but a private Christian so if Divines say and bring Scripture and reason for it that Tithes are dedicated to God or by him assumed first to himself and then assigned or set over by him to his servants for his work in waiting on his worship which must be maintained to the worlds end it will be rather a reason for them to support the tenure of Tithes by their Parliamentary power then any way to prompt or dispose them to desert it or to alienate their right from Ecclesiasticall uses The fear of sacriledge hath been of such force with some heathen Moralists as Plutarch observeth in his Morals that if they pulled down a house contiguous to a temple they would leave some of that part standing which was next unto it lest they should with it take away any part of the Temple it selfe Wherein if they shewed any spice of superstition it will be more capable of pardon or lesse liable to punishment at the hand of God then we may expect if we proceed hastily to lay violent hands upon any thing peculiarly entituled to his honour who is the authour and giver of all things to all men 2. If the plea of a divine right for Tithes supposing it setreth them up too high should incline to irritation in some to make opposition against them why should not the contrary tenet which peremptorily taketh them down too low calling them Jewish Antichristian and Popish and that undeniably as hath been said but never can be proved move others the rather to retaine them and confirm them chiefly the Parliament whose authority is most engaged for their justification and especially since the servants of God have had possession of them by so many laws and so long a prescription for according to the maxime of the law Longa possessio sicut jus parit jus possidendi tollit actionem vero domino Bract. l. 2. fo 52. the possessers title is the best untill he bee fairly evicted out of it 3. If the Parliament doe not in their approbation of Tithes come up to the tenure of divine right they may yet be willing enough to establish them upon other grounds and leave Divines to the liberty of their judgment consciences to plead for them according to the principles of their own profession as in their Ordinances made for setting up of the Presbyterial Government though yet they be not satisfied of the claim of divine right for it they were pleased to authorize it by their Ordinance and to require Divines to prepare the people for the reception thereof by preaching of it and for it so as both to clear it and assure it so farre as they could by the sacred Scripture And on the other side while they approve it though but by a civill assent as to a prudentiall design untill they see more light which they look for in the Answer to their Queres proposed to the Assembly of Divines the Presbyterians who hold it in the highest esteem take none offence that they proceed no farther and professe themselves well satisfied with their civill sanction so one of the learned Commissioners of Scotland hath said in the name of the rest in these words M. Gillespie his brotherly examination of M. Colemans Serm. p. 32 33. If they shall in a Parliamentary and Legislative way establish that thing which is really and in it self agreeable to the Word of God though they doe not declare it to be the will of Iesus Christ they are satisfied Ob. If there were no purpose to put down Tithes by such as are in Authority how commeth it to passe that the Anabaptists are more bold in London to take up a publique contestation against them then the Presbyterians to make apology for them for did not one Mr B. C. an Anabaptist manage a dispute against Mr W. I. of Chr. and after that undertake another upon the same argument against M. I. Cr. and offered to proceed in it against all opposition which M. Cr. durst not doe upon pretence of a prohibition from authority Ans 1. It is no strange thing for men who have a bad cause to set a good face on it and to make out with boldnesse and confidence what is wanting in truth of judgement and strength of argument Sir Ed Sands Europ Specul p. 85. this is observed of the Papists by a judicious Authour whom he sheweth to have been forward in the offers of disputation with iterated and importunate suits for publique audience and judgement And Bellarmine reporteth out of Surius that Io Cochlens a great Zealot for the Papacy Obtulit se ad disputandum cum quovis Lutherano sub poena capitis si in probationibus defecisset Bell. de Eccles Script p. 423. offered to dispute with any Luther an upon perill of his life if he fayled in the proof of his part of the Question 2. For the boldnesse of the Anabaptists at this time and in this Cause and this City there may be divers conjectural reasons in particular given thereof besides the generall already observed as 1. Because they advance in their hopes of a toleration of their Sect and to promote that hope they have been so ready to engage in military service with a designe no doubt to get that liberty by force if they be able which by favour of authority they cannot obtain 2. For this matter of Tithes they might be more forward to oppose their tenure because it is a very popular and plausible argument wherein they might have the good wils of the people that they might prevail and their conceits that they did so Quod valdè volumus facilè credimus though they did not because they would be very apt to beleeve what they vehemently
defenders of their rights as Tutors and Guardians ought to be And that our feare and jealousie is not without cause in respect of Trustees and Committee-men nor so much of you in particular of some of whom we have heard and beleeve much good as of such as may have as great authority without so good an intention we shall give you our ground out of the observation and complaint of witnesses above exception viz. the well affected freemen and covenant-engaged Citizens of the City of London in their humble representation to the right Honourable the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled in these words And here we may not omit to hint unto your Honours the exorbitant practises of many Committees and Committee-men who have such an influence by meanes of their authority upon the people they being at their wills and in their power to doe them a displeasure that they dare not doe otherwise then obey their unlawfull commands without the inevitable hazard of their peace and safety through which meanes tyranny is exercised by one fellow-subject upon another and justice and equity cannot enter The cryes of all sorts of people through the land are growne so loud against the people of this vocation and profession by reason of those grievous oppressions that are continually acted by them that in tendernesse of affection toward our brethren not being ignorant or insensible of our owne sufferings in this kind and the great dishonour accrewing to the Parliament thereby that we cannot but be earnest suitors to your mercy and justice that such may be dissolved Petit. 2. For obtainment of these livings we see such sordid compliances with such persons as have the fattest benefices as they count and call them in their dispose such artifices in contriving making and colouring over Simoniacall and sinfull bargaines compacts and matches such chopping of Churches and restlesse change of places till they get into the easiest and warmest and other such like practises not to be named nor yet to be prevented or removed otherwise then by plucking up the very roote which naturally brancheth out it selfe into these foresaid mischiefes so obstructive and destructive to all reformation Answ Here is a great deale of aggravating rhetoricke against the greatnesse of Church-livings But why should all this evill be imagined rather of Ministers fat benefices as you say they are called then of great and gainfull offices in the State Is there not more care had and more strict triall taken of Ministers sincerity and integrity then of secular officers surely we are bound in charity to expect a more reformed Ministery then we have had who will rather say unto a Simoniacall patron as Peter to Simon Magus Thy monie perish with thee Acts 8.20 then be Levies to such a Simeon in making a base and corrupt contract for a benefice And for that you say that such practises are not to be prevented or removed otherwise then by plucking up the very roote which naturally brancheth it selfe out into these foresaid mischiefes so obstructive and destructive to all religion Whether you meane Tithes to be this roote or the disproportion of Benefices or the right of patronage and protection I cannot tell but sure I am that the Apostle cals covetousnesse the root of all evill and so the root of that evill which sometimes passeth betwixt a Patron and his Chaplaine and may as frequently and with as much injury be found betwixt some Committee-men and Trustees and the Ministers of their choice as any other But as I am confident that there will be an amendment on the Ministers part by the regular way of the Parliaments reformation according to the directions of ordination of Ministers already printed accordingly practised so will it bee not onely possible but easie for the State to finde out a fit means to prevent prevarication on the part of the Patron but if Tithes be removed from their ancient foundation and lest loose to the disposall of Trustees or Committee-men they will be a more ready prey for the covetous into whose hands they may come and from whose hands perhaps they cannot without great difficulty be redeemed Lastly in the close of this Petition the Petitioners shew great care that the Ministers may be freed from the incumbrance of Tithes to serve the Lord without distraction and to give themselves to the Word of God and Prayer and to be onely employed to make ready a people prepared for the Lord And so they may do if they be maintained by Tithes for that means of maintenance gives a man occasion of more and better acquaintance with the particular disposition of his people and it is his part to be diligent to know the state of his flock Prov. 27.23 And for that trouble which may be thought inconsistent with the Calling of a Minister if his means be sufficient he may have a servant to take it from him and ease him of it I know a Minister whose Benefice was a Vicarage and his Parish so large that it was 11 miles in length and of a proportionable breadth yet did it not put him to the expence of one day in a year to compound for or gather in his dispersed portion Now for the successe and acceptance of the Petition in the Honourable House of Commons to which it was presented if such an innovation had been granted for that County it had been fitter to have been made a Sibboleth for that cauthe or angle of the Kingdome for so the word Kent signifieth as their custome of * Gavelkind is a custome anciently observed in Kent whereby the land of the father is equally divided among all his sons or the land of a brother equally divided among his brethren if he have no issue of his own this was so common a custome as appears by the Stat. in the 18. year of H. 6. ca. 1. that there were not above 30 or 40 persons in Kent that held by any other tenure but Anno 31 H. 8. ca. 3. many Gentlemen upon Petition got an alteration thereof Gavelkind then to be made a president or pattern of conformity to other parts of the Kingdome as the News-Book of the same week prescribed that to his Reader But the answer of the worthy Senate was such as may further confirm us in our confidence that they will still continue to be gracious Patrons of the maintenance of Ministers and that they will be more ready to ratifie precedent Statutes and their own Ordinance made in that behalf then to dissettle their tenure which is founded upon them and to make Ministers arbitrary Pensioners to such as may be so far swayed by misprision of judgement or personall dis-affection as to deal most penuriously with those who being truly valued without erroneous mistaking or injurious misliking may both by the eminence of their parts and their faithfulnesse in their places deserve the most ample and most honourable Revenue I will give you their answer in their own words
An answer to a question of a Gentleman of quality proposed to and made by a Reverend and learned Divine living in London concerning the settlement or abolition of Tithes by the Parliament which caused him to doubt how to dispose of his Sonne whom he had designed for the Ministrey wherein also are comprised some Animadversions upon a late little pamphlet called The Countryes plea against Tithes discovering the ignorant mistakings of the Authors of it touching the maintenance of the Ministery Sir THough it were high presumption for a private man as I am to presage what so wise a Senate as the Parliament will doe for the future either in point of Tithes or any other affaire of so publike concernment yet I hope I may without reaching above my line take upon me to tell you that the ground of your doubt touching their alienation of Tithes from the Ministery which I shall bring in its proper place is but such as will serve rather to beare up a transient suspicion or surmise of such a matter then a settled assurance that it either is so already or that hereafter it will be so For the first That it is not so I am sure because 1. They have passed an Ordinance for the Ministers recovery of Tithes and other Ministeriall dues from such as doe detaine them November 8. 1644. which is still in force through the influence of their power and favour 2. They have made competent additions to very many livings out of impropriated Tithes in the hands of Delinquents and this they have done with so much cheerefulnesse and beneficence on the Ministers behalfe by the Committee for plundred Ministers that many have cause to blesse God for them as their great Patrons and benefactors for that manner of maintenance wherein they have done beyond and above any Parliament that were before them and they continue and persist in the making of such augmentations as occasion is offered to this very day 3. They have given the repulse to divers petitions against Tithes which by the instinct and instigation of men of unsound principles and unquiet spirits have been put up unto them For the second that they will not take them away in time to come I have these grounds if not of infallible certainty yet of very great probability Though they have resolved upon the sale of Bishops lands and revenues in their Ordinance of November 16. 1646. for that purpose they have made an especiall exception with respect to the maintenance of Ministers in these words Except parsonages appropriate tithes tithes appropriate oblations obventions portions of tithes parsonages vicarages Churches Chappels advowsons donatives nomination rights of patronage and presentation In excepting the right of patronage they meane neither to leave it to the power of the people to choose what Minister they please and the practice of the Honourable Committee for plundred Ministers sheweth the same for they appoint and place Ministers very often without the petitions of the people and sometimes against them as their wisedome seeth cause and if it were not so many would choose such as deserved to be put out againe Nor to put the Ministers upon the voluntary pensions or contributions of the people for their subsistence but assigne them under such a title what belongeth unto them by the Laws of the Land viz. Tithes obventions c. which intimates their mind not onely for the present but for the future Their wisedome well knoweth that the Revenue of Tithes as it is most ancient for the originall of it and most generall in practice both for times and places so it hath the best warrant from the word of God not onely in the old Testament which none can deny but in the new which though it be denyed by some is averred by others as D. Carleton M. Roberts D. Sclater M. Bagshaw in their treatises of Tithes and yet unrefuted by any and from the Laws of many Christian States especially from the Statutes of our Kingdome whereof abundant evidence is given in the booke of the learned Antiquary Sr Henry Spelman 3. That notwithstanding all the authority that may be pleaded for them the people are backward enough to pay to their Ministers a competent maintenance and if Tithes should be put down by the Parliament it would be very much adoe to bring them up any other way to any reasonable proportion of allowance for their support and so in most places the Ministery would be reduced to extreame poverty and that poverty would produce contempt of their calling and that contempt atheisme 4. That it is evident that such as make the loudest noyse against the tenure of Tithes are as opposite to the office and calling of Ministers as to their maintenance and intend by their left-handed Logicke because as the saying is the Benefit or Benefice is allotted to the office to make way for the taking away of the Ministery by the taking away of Tithes and nor to wait the leisure of consequentiall operation according to the craft of Julian who robbed the Church of meanes expecting the want of wages would in time bring after it a want of workmen but presently to beare down both as Relatives mutually inferre one another as well by a negative as a positive inference and so as the Parliament having put down the office of the Prelacy now makes sale of their lands they if they could prevaile for the discarding of Tithes would by the same argument clamour and slander presently and importunately presse for deposition of the Ministery And we see how they take upon them with equall confidence and diligence not onely to write but a Erbury at Oxford and Cox at London publikely to dispute against them both 5. That if rights so firmely set upon so many solid foundations should be supplanted it would much weaken the tenure or title that any man hath to his lands or goods and would be a ready plea for rash innovators and the rather because of the manner of the Anabaptists proceedings who began their claime of Christian liberty with a b Sleydan Comment l. 5. fol. 71. a. relaxation of Tithes and went on to take off the Interdict or restraint in hunting fishing and fowling wherein they would allow neither Nobility nor Gentry any more priviledge then the meanest peasant And as their principles were loose so were their practices licentious for they held a c Ibid. community of goods and equality of estates d Bonorum quoque communionē humanitati cum primis esse consentaneam ut ex dignitate sunt omnes aequales ex conditione libere promiscuè omnibus bonis utuntur Ibid. fol. 64. prope finem whereupon the Common people gave over their worke and whatsoever e Quo factum est ut vulgus ab operis atque labore desisteret quâ quisque re careret ab aliis qui abundatant etiam invitis acciperit Ibid. See also l. 10. princip they wanted they tooke