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A55033 Scripture and reason pleaded for defensive armes: or The whole controversie about subjects taking up armes Wherein besides other pamphlets, an answer is punctually directed to Dr. Fernes booke, entituled, Resolving of conscience, &c. The scriptures alleadged are fully satisfied. The rationall discourses are weighed in the ballance of right reason. Matters of fact concerning the present differences, are examined. Published by divers reverend and learned divines. It is this fourteenth day of Aprill, 1643. ordered by the Committee of the House of Commons in Parliament concerning printing, that this booke, entituled Scripture and reason pleaded for defensive armes, be printed by Iohn Bellamy and Ralph Smith. John White. Palmer, Herbert, 1601-1647.; England and Wales. Parliament. House of Commons. 1643 (1643) Wing P244; ESTC R206836 105,277 84

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Realm and that he is in all causes and over all persons supreame Repl. But some Lawyers will tell him That the Oath of Supremacy is either only against forraigne powers and namely the Pope having to doe here or against all particular persons having authority above the King within the Realme But that with all Law-books intimate a superiority in curia Comitum Baronum c. which is the two Houses of Parliament And secondly That he is supreame not to judge all persons and causes at his pleasure but as assisted according to Lawes with his Counsell and Judges and specially his great Councell and chiefe Judicature during their sitting the two Houses of Parliament His Supremacy then still appeares limited by and according to Law 3 But hee adds This is also acknowledgedged by the Petition of the two Houses addressed unto his Majesty wherein they stile themselves his Loyall Subjects Repl. True and right but still this is to be understood to be Subject according to Lawes and for the good of King and Kingdome neither of which is promoted or preserved by a restraint of a defensive Resistance of tyranny which restraint the Doctor so contends for Adde here what must elsewhere be further urged That the King himselfe in his answer to the 19 Propositions acknowledges that the two Houses have legall power more then sufficient to prevent or restraine Tyranny Which I would faine have any man shew me how it can bee done but by taking up Armes and then I will yeeld him the cause That all Armes taken up are unlawfull But till then the King hath granted the cause legall and just against the Doctors first maine Proposition and all his Arguments His next ground is That in the Text of the Apostle all persons under the higher Power are expressely forbidden to resist for Whosoever in the second verse must be as large as every soule in the first verse and the resistance forbidden here concrnes all upon whom the subjection is injoyned there or else we could not make these universals good against the Papists exempting the Pope and Clergy from subjection Repl. 1. He still runnes on in his errour to limit the higher power to the supreame But secondly I grant him that all other powers under the supreame are forbidden to resist in the Apostles sence A Constable Justice Major Sheriffe Judge of Assize nor the very Houses of Parliament may not resist the authority of the King commanding according to Lawes But yet it remaines to be prooved that they may not resist his violence when he is bent to subvert Lawes and Liberties and Religion and all Or the violence of his followers even though doing it by his warrant or in his presence Also because he doth so much insist upon the phrase of higher power let me put him a case A wicked Robber that hath committed twenty most bloudy murthers one after another in cold bloud is led away after legall condemnation by the Sheriffe to be put to death Suppose a King would come with armed souldiers and offer to take him violently and by force out of the hand of Justice Who resists damnably now that power which is the Ordinance of God and to whom the Sword is committed The Sheriffe and his men that resist the violence or the Kings followers or even himselfe that resist the due Execution of Justice Let him study on it and give an Answer at his leisure 3. He proceeds In those dayes there was a standing and continuall great Senate which not long before had the supreme power in the Roman State and might challenge more by the fundamentals of that State then our great Councell I thinke will or can But now the Emperour being supreame as S. Peter cals him or the higher power as S. Paul here there is no power of resistance left to any that are under him by the Apostle Thus for the persons that should resist all are forbidden Now consider the cause Rep. 1. Doubtlesse Saint Paul wrote not to the Roman Senate nor Saint Peter neither And if the Doctor will proove it unlawfull for them to resist he must proove it from the Law of nature or at least from some ancient Law of the old Testament given to the Ancestours of the Roman Senate Or else shew how this could concerne them who never heard any thing of it For any thing then ●e saith it was lawfull for the Roman Senate and the Heathen Subjects to resist though not for Christians 2. If he or any for him shall say that it suffices for his cause that it was forbidden to Christians and accordingly is now Rep. 2. If you reply that supposing it not forbidden to Heathens No more was it to Christians before S. Paul and S. Peter wrote And if so then belike as was formerly toucht the Apostles laid a yoake upon the necks of Christians worse then all the Jewish ceremonies which the Gentiles were ever freed from For whereas before the Romans might resist their tyrannous Emperours now by becoming Christians their hands must be tyed to have all their throats cut even though the whole Senate were Christians at one Neroes pleasure He that wisht that all Rome had but one neck that he might strike it off at a blow had done wisely to have endeavoured to have made them all Christians and then he and his Guard with him or his Army might by this Doctrine have struck off all their heads or runne them all through one after another as fast as they could deale blowes and so he should have his will in their destruction though there must have beene a little more paines taken about it Surely Christ who came to purchase liberty to his people never meant to enslave them to tyrants above all others of Man-kind The Doctor must goe prove resistance unlawfull from some other grounds of natures law or the ancient lawes of Scripture or else this Text of S. Paul will appeare to have another interpretation even that which hath beene given before in the explication of the Text and inference from it Thirdly I will not therefore trouble my selfe to compare the Authority of the Roman Senate with our Parliament much lesse argue for that power which they had lost about a 100 Yeares before S. Paul writ It suffices he hath not disproved at all their present power of resisting tyranny when S. Paul wrote and that by the same argument I have disproved that S. Paul forbids Christians to take any such power to themselves 4. But he adds was there ever more cause of resistance then in those dayes Were not the Kings then not only conceived to be enclined so and so but even actually were enemies to Religion had overthrown Laws and liberties Rep. If it had been before demonstratively proved that resisting the power or higher power did properly signifie taking Armes against the Supreame when he plays the tyrant This fourth step were a just illustration and confirmation of it But now he only beggs the
of Israel and Judah for their Idolatry cruelty and oppression none should call upon the Elders of the people for this duty of resistance Rep. To this marvell there may be a ready satisfaction if we remember That even in the reigne of the best Kings not only the peoples hearts were usually unprepared and in their greatest seemings hypocriticall and treacherous as appeares by the Story and the Prophets But also the Princes Elders and Nobles were exceedingly corrupt In Joash his time as soone as Jehojada was dead the Princes came and corrupted the King and in the beginning of Esay's Prophesie in Vzziah's time who was among the better Kings he calls them Princes of Sodom and so even in Hezekiah's time how doth Micah complaine of them Ch 3. Jer. 26. and Jeremy in Josiahs time after the Reformation begun Now if they were so bad in good times who can marvell if they were starke nought where the King was rought and helpers forward of his Idolatries cruelties and oppressions And why should it then be expected that the Prophets should call upon them to resist the King being on their side and they on his Sixthly At last the Doctor comes to his maine strength of all namely Roman 13.2 In the improvement of which Text to his purpose he layes downe four Positions and then makes a five-fold Objection and shapes Answers to them all which must come under examination 1. He sayes St. Peter St. Paul here though it be by some now put to the Question as one absurdity commonly begets another to defend it Rep. But by his leave hee runnes away too fast with his supposition in a double respect 1. That St. Paul here Rom. 13.2 speakes only of resisting the supreame power the King or Emperour or Monarch whereas the word in this second verse is indefinite the power 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which extends to all in authority in either ranke or degree as well as the supreame as was noted before If he or any for him say that the power v. 2. must signifie no more then the higher power v. 1. which he interprets only of the supreame Repl. Here againe I must tell him he abuses his Readers carelesly at least I will not say wittingly let his conscience looke to that for he alwayes reades higher power in the singular whereas it is Powers in the plurall and the next words There is no Power but of God the Powers that be are ordained of God shews the Apostle speakes of all sorts and rankes of Powers Therefore he must take in the other Powers as well as the supreame in both verses and that will be nothing for his benefit as will appeare by this briefe reason If the Powers that are under the Supreame may not be resisted by this Rom. 13.2 Then either the resistance forbidden extends not to resisting though with Armes out-ragious and tyrannicall assaults of illegall violence offered by those officers as suppose a Major Justice or even a Constable or else even one of those officers even a petty Constable is as absolutely over those that are under his office as any Monarch and they slaves to his lusts as well as to an Emperours because the one ought not to tyrannize by the Doctors Confession § 1. no more then the other and the one ought not to be resisted no more then the other by this argument and Text. Now which part of distinction will the Doctor chuse if the former he deserts his cause plainly If the latter then besides the apparant absurdity of it I urge that all men will grant That a Constable and such like officers betweene the people and the supreame are lyable to be themselves punished by Lawes if they offer any out-ragious and illegall violence which cannot possibly be unlesse they may be resisted even with Armes in case any arme themselves to practise violence Also else a few of them as the Major or Aldermen of a Towne joyning together might goe through all the City and robbe and kill as many as they would by force of Armes and no man might offer to resist them by taking Armes against them It remaines therefore that all Magistrates except the supreame to begin with may be resisted even with Armes if offering violence and tyranny And yet St. Paul forbids to resist the Powers without distinction of supreame or other Therefore St. Paul m●anes not to forbid resisting Tyranny with Armes But resisting legall and lawfull commands even other wayes as well as with Armes though this be the worst kind of resistance where obedience is due But secondly It must not be granted him for all his bigg words of Absurdity imputed to those that deny it That the King of England is in all considerations the supreame or the highest Power if St. Pauls words were in the superlative This belongs to Politicks and the Doctors Divinity will not reach it himselfe cannot deny it That the King is not supreame in the legislative power Though hee have a negative voyce in Lawes so have either of the Houses distinct Hee can then neither make new Lawes alone nor abrogate old ones Nor violate without injustice the goods much lesse the lives or chastities of any of his meanest Subjects and least of all authorize any of his followers by his warrant or presence to doe so His Supremacy then is bounded by Lawes and is given him be it more or lesse ad salutem non ad destructionem Which yet were not if no Tyranny of his might be resisted But of that more anon But the Doctor will prove the King supreame 3 wayes 1. St. Peters distinction comprehends all that are in authority The King as supreame and those that are sent by him In which latter ranke are the two Houses of Parliament being sent by him or sent for by him and by his Writ sitting there Repl. 1. Why did the Doctor leave out the word Governours Is he afraid to grant the Houses of Parliament any power of Government 2. What if sent by him referrs not to the King but to the Lord for whose sake all both King and Governours are to be obeyed and by whom both are sent but of this also more anon 3. But grant him his way I aske how it shall appeare that the name of King extends as farre every where as S. Peters 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Spartans had two Kings and yet neither of them so supreame but under the controll of the Ephori There are also Monarches as supreame as any that have the Title of King The Great Duke of Florence The Great Duke of Muscovy and others Also the Romans in S. Peters time cal'd not their Emperours King Rex Which yet is the ordinary Latine of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In a word he only is supreame whom the Law cals supreame and no further then the Law makes him 2. He saith also by the Oath of Supremacy it is acknowledged That there is no power above him without or within this