case in any Age nor ever thought of by any of his Councils save only that of Lateran To fancy them all into one Council is well enough but to fancy them doing there what when they are assembled in reality they dreamt not of has something too much of fancy Then this favouring of Hereticks is a term so general that I know not how far it extends but I think Princes make alliances as they are guided by interest of State and amuse not themselves with these speculations of Schoolmen The French never bogled to make leagues with Princes of different Religions which though it has been sometimes cast in their dish they left not for all that to do what they thought fitting 'T is now come about and the House of Austria does what heretofore they blam'd in the French and the Pope is much bely'd if he quarrel with them for it It is not much more boldness and rashness to stand upon our terms with his Councils being such as they are then to condemn to excommunication and deposition such as are capable of it all this part of the world For sure Representatives are not so much more considerable than the Bodies themselves But I rove as well as Bellarmin Before I speak to the to the Council it will not be amiss to observe that the case of the German Emperors has something not common with other absolute Princes and the cases of Frederic 2 and Henry 4 something not common with other Emperors For 't is well observ'd by John Barclay that since the translation of the Empire to the West at least since the devolution from the posterity of Charles the Great to the Germans Popes have pretended a particular superiority over those Emperors Clem. 5. Clementina Vinc. de Jurejur Adrian Ep. ad Fred. 7. One of them in a certain Canon will needs have the Oath which Emperors take at their Coronation to be properly an Oath of Fidelity Another taxes the Emperor of insolence and arrogance for setting his name before the Popes as being contrary to the fidelity promist and sworn to S. Peter himself In consequence whereof there are who maintain the Pope may depose the Emperor for this reason because he acknowledges his Temporalties from the Pope and in plain terms that the Empire and Emperor are subject to the Pope I have nothing to do with the justice of this pretence let the Germans look to that who I suppose are not all of the same opinion but 't is manifest Popes have made this claim and if they act in consequence of what they publickly maintain and treat as subjects those whom they took to be so and deal with them as supream Lords with their Inferiors and Vassals as it is not to be wondred at so the case is quite different from that of absolute Princes over whom there is no pretence of superiority Again this Frederick had positively sworn by Embassadors particularly authoriz'd to stand to the Judgment of the Pope and Church Henry 4. had done as much in person at Canossa upon the recalling of his first sentence How far this submission of theirs subjected those two Emperors to the censures of the Church at least how far it might be thought to subject them I cannot say But certainly such an obligation makes their condition different from those who never entred into such bonds It will not be amiss likewise to reflect a little upon the temper of those times As far as I can get a Prospect of them they were less critical then ours and more led by nature than speculation When a mischief hapned they thought 't was fit there should be a remedy and as drowning men think not of the trespass and whether the twig they catch at grow on their neighbours ground if the temporal Power wrong'd them had recourse to the spiritual and if the spiritual to the temporal So the Emperor Otho was sollicited to relieve them against John 12 and did so causing him to be depos'd and a better chosen in his room And every body thought he did well even Bellarmin himself though withal he thinks the action not so regular because that Pope was a very wicked man Besides the Pope was believ'd the Father and Head of all Christians and upon that account obedience due to him from all How far and to what kind of actions this obedience extended they seem to have so little considered that Greg. 7. himself answers those who were not satisfi'd with his hasty sentence Plat. in Greg. 7. as if it were all one to have power over all and to have all Power It was this Council of Lyons which made men begin to look about them and consider the matter more deeply For then says M. Paris both Princes and prelates foreseeing the consequences were exceedingly troubled For though Frederick himself did many ways deserve to be lessened and depriv'd of all honor yet to be depos'd by Papal authority would raise the Church of Rome to that height and pride that abusing the Grace of God they might fall to deposing even innocent and good Princes and sooner Prelates and this for slight causes or at least threaten to depose them c. But whatever they thought afterwards when they reflected the Pope was a man as well as his Neighbours and might abuse an unlimited power at the Council of Lyons I conceive they were more intent to consider who had right of his side then with what kind of penalty they were impour'd to chastise the wrong The Emperors Agents were heard and notwithstanding all they could say in his behalf and they spoke freely enough He was in the opinion of the whole Council manifestly guilty Even those who favour'd him at first confest he deserv'd to be depos'd And if the rest thought no injustice done him who had but what he deserved I think the wonder is not great However it be to answer more directly divers things they say They question the concurrence of the Council and think Bellarmin a little more confident then became him to talk of the approbation and consent and praise of the whole Council when the Decree is so far from authorizing his confidence that on the contrary it affords just suspicion of the contrary For whereas the usual stile of conciliar Acts and elsewhere us'd even in this very Council runs in this manner sacro approbante Concilio 't is changed here into this sacro praesente Concilio which they think not done without a particular reason Again Historians mention the horror and astonishment of the by-standers at the pronouncing the sentence effects not likely to proceed from an Act of their own In fine several exceptions they take But the best answer in my opinion is afforded by Bellarmin himself He teaches elsewhere that in Councils the greatest part of the Acts belong not to Faith Lib. 2. de Concil c. 12. neither Disputations nor Reasons nor Explications but the bare Decrees themselves and those not all but
Vicar I understand now the reason St. Peter commands Christians to be obedient to the Authority of Heathen Princes and Governours because he knew very well how they came by it For though all their power before was usurp'd and tyrannical yet after they had deriv'd it from him it became a lawful Authority If our wicked Politicians be not confounded with this I know not what will do it I am sure I am to meet with such stuff in a Church which boasts of purity of her doctrine and which cherishes the Authors not only as good Christians but learned men and Masters of Christianity Lael Zecch Tract Theol. P. 81. Laelius Zecchius tells us that the Pope by the Law of God hath power and temporal dominion over the whole world That the same is prov'd by the words Luk. 22. Behold here are two swords which signifie the power spiritual and temporal and because Christ whose Vicar the Pope is hath both powers according to the words Matt. ult All power is given me in heaven and in earth that thence it may be deduced that the Pope is absolutely Lord of all the Christian world and Kings and Christian Princes are to acknowledge that they hold of him their Empires and Kingdoms and all that are faithful ought to be subject unto him and that as oft as such Princes do any great hurt in the Church the Pope may deprive them of their Kingdoms and transfer their right to others Franciscus Bozius Fran. Boz de temp Eccle. Monarch l. 1. c. 3. p. 52. C. 7. p. 98. That the supreme temporal Jurisdiction throughout all the world doth belong to S. Peter's Successors so as one and the same is the Hierarch and Monarch in all things That Christ left the Church to be govern'd by the best form of government but the best form of government is absolute Monarchy even in all temporal things therefore Christ left his Church to be so govern'd That the Keys of Heaven were given to Peter L. 2. c. 14. L. 3. c. 1. p. 894. therefore of all the earth That the right of dominion and relation of Infidels may justly by the sentence and ordination of the Church be taken away because Infidels by reason of their infidelity deserve to lose their power over the faithful C. 14. p. 530. c. 14. p. 530. That the Church hath receiv'd that power over Nations which Christ according to his humane nature reciev'd of his Father but Christ receiv'd absolutely of his Father all power in temporalibus therefore the Church likewise receiv'd it by participation of his fulness c. 16. p. 537. That the supreme coactive power in all temporal things belongeth to Ecclesiastical persons by divine Law revealed and expressed in the Scriptures That Kings P. 676. annointed with holy Oil are called as Vassals of the Church That by reason of the supreme Monarchy in all things L. 5. p. 823. temporal laws may be made and Kingdoms taken away for just causes Henricus Gandavensis if Carrerius cite him truly Car. p. 28. That by the Law of God and nature the Priesthood doth over-top the Empire and both Jurisdiction over Spiritualties and Temporalties and the immediate execution likewise of them both depend upon the Priesthood both by the Law of God and Nature Carr. p. 130. Antoninus That they who say the Pope hath dominion over all the world in Spirituals but not in Temporals are like the Counsellors of the King of Syria who said the Gods of the Mountains are their Gods and therefore they have overcome 〈◊〉 let us fight with them in the Plains and Valleys where their Gods dwell not and we shall prevail against them Carr. p. 130. 3 Reg. 20. Augustinus Triumphus That the Son of God hath declar'd the altitude of the Ecclesiastical power being as it were founded upon a Rock to be above all principality and power that unto it all knees should bend of things in heaven in earth and under the earth or in hell 'T is come at last this infernal power 't was only long of a bad memory we had it not before P. 131. That Secular Powers were not necessary but that Princes might perform that through terror of discipline which the Priest cannot effect by power of doctrine and that therefore if the Church could punish evil men Imperial and Secular principality were not necessary the same being included potentially in the principality Apostolical And why cannot the Church punish evil men if both Jurisdictions and the immediate execution of both be in her But we understand him well enough when time serves the conclusion shall be that Princes are unnecessary because the Church by her double power can do the business of the world without them And so farewel useless Princes Aug. de Anc. de Potest Ecc. Q. 39. a. 2. Farther he tells us that Imperial or Regal power is borrowed from the Papal or Sacerdotal for as much as concerneth the formality of dignity and recieving the authority Pretty formalities those Q. 45. a. 2. That the Pope hath Jurisdiction over all things as will temporal as spiritual through the world That he may absolve Subjects from the Oath of Allegiance Q. 46. a. 3. That upon just cause he may set up a King in every Kingdom L. Conr. in templ om judic l. 2 c. 1. S 4. for he is the Overseer of all Kingdoms in Gods stead as God is the Supervisor and maker of all Kingdoms Lancecelot Conradus That He may appoint Guardians and Assistants to Kings and Emperors when they are insufficient and unfit for government That he may depose them and transfer their Empires and Dominions from one line to another Celsus Mancinus Cel. Manc l c. 1. That in the highest Bishop both the Powers and Jurisdictions are spiritual and temporal and that as he is the most eminent person of all men in spiritual power Th. Boz de jur stat l. 1. c. 6. p. 37. P. 52. so he is in temporal Thomas Bozius That Kings and principal Seculars are not immediately of God but by the Interposition of Holy Church and her chief Bishops That warlike and military compulsive power is given to the Church over Kings and Princes That if it be found sometimes that certain Emperors have given some temporalities to the highest Bishops as Constantine gave to Silvester this is not to be understood that they gave any thing which was their own but restor'd that which was unjustly and tyrannically taken from the said Bishops Ap. Carrer P. 132. Rodoricus Sancius That there is one Principlity and one supreme-Prince over all the world who is Christ's Vicar according to that of Dan. c 8. He hath given him power and honour and rule and all people and tongues shall serve him and that in him therefore is the fountain and spring of all principality and from him all other powers do flow P. 131. 132 That
Iconoclast I value them not Thus then stood things in the vvorld when Hildebrand Archdeacon of the Church of Rome was chosen to the Papacy in the year 1083 and called Gregory the VIIth The Contests which in his daies began betwixt the Spiritual and Civil Power are the reason I suppose why he is so differently represented by those who vvrite of him His Enemies give him the Character of an Imperious Tyrannical and several waies Wicked Man his Friends on the other side praise him as much and affirm he was a man of great Prudence and Vertue and so far that it hath been attested by several Miracles And for my own part I must confess I incline to believe well of him For he had been the support of the Papacy during the time of several Popes his Parts and Industry having drawn upon him the greatest weight of all business and was so far from aspiring to that dignity that if Baronius say true He treated with the Emperour not to consent to his Election assuring him before hand that if he did He would be very severe against the Abuses practic'd in his Court. Besides if Sigonius may be believ'd and the passages he relates vvhich can hardly be read vvithout horrour the Emperour was a very Wicked Man but that which concerns this matter was That all Benefices were with all the Licentiousness of a depraved Court expos'd to sale and He that could Fee a Courtier was vvithout Merit or even Capacity possest of the most considerable Preferments of the Church As this vvas a mischief palpably destructive to all Goodness so 't is not incredible from the irregularity of a debauch'd Court. And if the Pope desir'd to have it remedied the end he propos'd was but what became him if the means had been so too I am the more inclin'd to believe this true because the Germans in a great measure took part with the Pope forct the Emperour to comply and after several Traverses at last took the Crown from him and plac'd it on his Son However it were the Emperour notwithstanding the Popes Remonstrances gives consent to the Election and confirms him and the Pope was as good as his word And first Excommunicates those who should receive Investitures of Benefices from Laymen afterwards the Laymen who should grant them and lastly provok'd by the Emperour who in a Synod at Wormes had forbidden Obedience to him Excommunicates and deposes the Emperour himself And this iâ— the first unquestionable Example of this kind which has appear'd in the Christian World Bellarmin indeed and his Followers would make us believe there are Examples more Ancient but in my opinion he proves them not well and you see Onuphrius counts them but Fables and those of that Age at least those vvho favoured the Emperour exclaim'd against it as a Novelty unheard of not to call it Heresie as one faies But though the thing were now done it appears not yet in vertue of what Power 't was done As that Age was not I think extraordinary subtle the distinctions of Direct and Indirect Power were not yet found out and the Pope himself speaks in common That the care of the Christian World and Authority to bind and loose was committed to him confiding in the Judgment and Mercy of God and Patronage of the B. Virgin and supported by the Authority of SS Peter and Paul c. but descends not to particulars So that it appears not whether he acted in vertue of a Spiritual or Temporal Power Directly or Indirectly and 't is likely he speculated not so far One thing is pretty remarkable in his second Sentence for he made two which ends in this manner After he had commanded all concerned to withdraw their Obedience from Henry and yield it to Rudolphus speaking as he does all along to the Apostles SS Peter and Paul You then See the words in Platina saies he most holy Princes of the Apostles confirm what I have said by your Authority that all men at last may understand if you can bind and loose in Heaven we likewise on Earth may give and take away Empires Kingdoms Principalities and whatever mortals can have Let Kings and all Princes of the World understand by his Example what you can do in Heaven and what power you have with God and hereafter fear to contemn the commands of the Holy Church And shew this Judgment upon Henry quickly that all Sons of Iniquity may perceive that he falls from his Kingdom not by chance but by your means This nevertheless I desire from you that by Repentance he may at your request find favour of our Lord at the day of Judgment For my part I cannot imagine but a man who speaks thus must needs mean uprightly and think at least he does well Notwithstanding the Apostles did not do as he desir'd them For this Rudulphus after he had fought twice upon equal terms with the Emperour was overthrown in the third Battle and so wounded in the right hand that he dy'd of it and dy'd full of Repentance and acknowledgment of his own fault and the Justice of God who had deservedly punisht him in that hand with which he had formerly sworn Fealty and Service to his Lord. So that though I believe the Pope thought himself much in the right yet the Court of Heaven thought not fit to grant his Request but ordered things quite contrary to his expectation and desire The next famous Example is of Frederic the IId a Prince of great Power and Parts who falling out with several Popes as resolute as himself after several breaches at several times made up and several Sentences publisht and recall'd and renew'd again was at last with the astonishment and horrour of all present saies M. Paris solemnly Excommunicated and depos'd in the Councel of Lions And this made both Princes and Prelates begin to look about them foreseeing that if this deposing Power should go on a slight Pretence might at last serve turn to unthrone perhaps an Innocent Man and bring the vvorld into confusion which possibly was the cause the Popes Sentence was not executed For this Frederic notwithstanding those proceedings kept the Empire till his death which happened long after But still I see not any ground to judge whether the Power were yet thought Direct or Indirect and in likelyhood People had in common a great Veneration for the Supream Pastour and his Decrees and thought them wicked men vvho submitted not to them but what kind of Power he had and hovv far it extended as far as I can perceive they little considered 'T is observable both in this Sentence and the former of Gregory VII that the Emperour is first Deposed and afterwards Excommunicated in aggravation as it were of the former Penalty The business was a little more discust in the Contests betwixt Boniface the VIIIth and Philip the Fair of France As this Pope is Recorded for a man of more mettle than Vertue his proceedings were
Violent but having to do with a Prince both Resolute and Prudent he found but bad success The Pope perswades the King to an expedition into the Holy Land to promote vvhich business He exacts the Tithes of Church Livings in France and reserves the Collation of all Benefices there to himself The King excuses the one and plainly denies the other The hot Pope sends the Bishop of Apamea to threaten him with Censures and Deposition unless he yielded to him The King calls the States and upon Consultation with them resolves the Legat deserv'd to be imprisoned but for reverence to the See Apostolic banishes him and for his Threats contemns them The Legat not content to scape scot-free falls a new to Threats which the King resenting commits him to custody to the Metropolitan The Pope complains of the breach of Ecclesiastical Immunity and commands his Legat should be immediately return'd These Letters being read in an Assembly of the States the Count of Arras as hot every jot as the Pope throws them into the fire This put the Pope quite out of patience Wherefore he Cites both King and Bishops to Rome where he had appointed a Synod and in the mean time declares the Kingdom of France for Contumacy Felony and Violating the Law of Nations devolved to the Apostolic See writing thus peremptorily to the King We would have you to know that you are subject to us both in Spirituals and Temporals and who thinks otherwise we repute Heretics The King upon the receipt of these Letters calls the States again and by their Advice frames an Answer every jot as smart and something more homely We would have your foolishness know we are subject to none in Temporals and who thinks otherwise we take for mad men And withal appeals to a future General Councel and objects several Crimes to the Pope to be made good when the Councel should sit and in the mean time forbids all intercourse vvith Rome This Answer being brought to Rome by three Bishops deputed for that purpose the Pope began to be startled and at last confesses That to usurp the Kings Jurisdiction belonged not to him nevertheless that in respect of Sin the King could not deny but he was subject to the Pope This put them to examine how far and in what manner he was subject to him and one of the Cardinals in a Consistory in which the French Embassadours were present resolves the case in this manner That Supream Dominion belong'd properly to the Pope but the Administration to Kings and therefore all Christian Kings vvere subject to the judgment of the Pope even in Temporals in regard of his Supream Dominion But this satisfi'd not the Embassadours at Rome and the States in France resuming the Debate declar'd positively the King in Temporals vvas subject to God alone and ow'd his Crown and Power only to him Nevertheless this Subjection on the account of Sin seems to be the ground of the distinction betwixt Direct and Indirect Power though I conceive it borrowed from Innocent the IVth some time before upon occasion of a Contest betwixt John King of England and Philip Augustus of France vvho prosecuting the King of England for default of Homage for some Dukedoms in France c. King John appeals to the Pope Philip maintained that being a Temporal business he had nothing to do vvith it The Pope was vvilling to favour the English and therefore assumes cognisance of the Cause upon pretence that there was an Oath in the case the violation of vvhich being Sin belong'd properly to his Tribunal And this Resolution having been put into a Decree and that Decree into the Canon-Law seems the principal foundation of Indirect Power I must confess I do not well understand how either this Canon which is in the Decretals C. Novit Ille de Judiciis or the other C. per Venerabilem Qui filii sint legitimi which are the two usually cited both of Innocent III. make to the purpose The former was made upon the occasion now mentioned and in it the Pope speaks thus We intend not to Judge of the Fee whereof the cognisance belongs to him the King but to decree of the Sin whereof the Censure without doubt pertains to us which we may and ought to exercise on every one None of sound Judgment is ignorant that it belongs to our Office to correct every Christian for any mortal Sin and if he despise Correction to constrain him by Ecclesiastical punishment c. Where the Pope saies Correct the Gloss adds Indirectly which single word and that not explicated is the main Authority for the distinction of Direct and Indirect Power now in question The other Canon per Venerabilem was made upon this occasion Philip Augustus of France had put away his Wife and taken as I remember the Countess of Anjou and had Children by her These Children at his request the Pope Legitimates while the suit yet depended of the validity of his former Marriage For the King alledged it was invalid But as the Example of Kings is apt to be follow'd Some body leaves his Wife too and has Children by another Woman and then sollicites the Pope to Legitimate them as he had done the King's The Pope refuses to yield his Request but withal owns a Power to have granted it if he had found it reasonable and proves it by several Arguments and amongst other passages has these words We exercise temporal Jurisdiction not only in the Patrimony of the Church where we have full power in Temporals but in other Countries also casually upon inspection of certain Causes These certain Causes the Gloss interprets to be when He is required Now both these Cases seem to me far enough from the inferring the Deposing Power which was not at all in question but Legitimation in the one and Cognisance of a Temporal business in the other And though the Pope assume both yet he is very sollicitous to prove they are within his Sphere as both may be and yet nothing follow in behalf of his Indirect disposing For he may Legitimate Children in order to Spiritual capacities and leave them in the same condition in which they were before as to Inheritance and other Temporal concerns Again He may Judge of Sin and punish it in his own Court with Spiritual punishments and let Temporal punishments alone to whom they belong the Temporal Magistrate And since he expresly limits himself to Ecclesiastical punishments methinks it is to strain Logic a little to far to infer out of them a right to Punish by Deposition However in my opinion this difference in the manner of Explicating this Power sometimes Casualiter sometimes Indirecte sometimes Ratione peccati which differ sufficiently though they Cite the Authorities indifferently as if they were all one is a sign they were at first not very cleer in this business in Explicating which they hit it no better Notwithstanding the Indirect Power has at last got the Vogue and most
a form of Imprecation not a Legal Decree as when he saies a little after And let him be damn'd in the lower Hell with Judas the Traytour c. or as the stile of Bulls now is Let him know he shall incur the Indignation of God c. For they think that for the Pope directly to command People should be damn'd is not very commendable in him nor very wise in any who should think he does so Wherefore to look upon these kind of expressions as other than Threats by which men may be frighted from Wickedness they conceive is both against S. Gregory's Sence and Common Sence too The next is the Example of Gregory the Second who forbad Tribute to be paid to Leo the Iconoclast and this is one of those Stories which Onuphrius reckons amongst Fables and Platina expresly denies for he saies the Italians were so exasperated against the Emperour that the Pope was feign to interpose his Authority to keep them from choosing another Emperour So that till the matter of Fact be agreed 't is an uncomfortable and useless Employment to busie our selves with thinking what will follow out of it There follows the Deposition of Childeric King of France by Pope Zachary with vvhich they make quick work and positively deny it not that the King was Depos'd but that he was Depos'd by the Pope The French indeed consulted him as they might have done any other whose Credit they had thought useful to their purpose vvhether were more truly King He who managed all the Affairs of the Kingdom or he who had the bare Title but medled with nothing And He answered the former And this was all he did for the rest what was done was done by the French themselves Not but that 't is likely he understood well enough the meaning of the Question and was inclin'd to favour Pepin all he could but he did no more and those who did have long since given account to God of their action I know not of what humour the French were in those times but he that should at this day maintain in France The Pope has Power to Depose their King would go neer to be confuted with a Halter The Seventh and Eighth Examples are The Translation of the Empire to the Germans and setling the Electours who are to choose the Emperour This is a Question of vvhich Bellarmin has written Three entire Books and is of more both importance and labour than to be treated with any exactness in a Letter That which Withrington Answers is in short That the Pope concurred to the Translation of the Empire and Nomination of the Electours not as acting by his own sole Power but as one who for the place he held had much and perhaps more Interest in the business than any other To which purpose he Cites Mich. Coccinius saying that The People of Rome and the rest of the Nations of Italy opprest by barbarous People and not only not protected by the Grecians but ill used too and afflicted by their Avarice and Imperious humour transfer'd the Empire from the Grecians to the Germans in the person of Charles the Great And 't is not to be doubted saies he that this Translation was made and had its force and efficacy from the Consent and Authority of the People of Rome and the rest of Italy And whereas Innocent the Third Writes to Bertoldus That the Apostolic See transfer'd the Roman Empire from the Grecians to the Germans We do not grant the Apostolic See transfer'd it otherwise than by Consenting to those who did or by declaring it ought be transfer'd but the Translation had its force and strength from the Consent of the People To which purpose he alledges also Card. Cusanus speaking in this manner Whence the Electours ordain'd in the time of Henry the Second by common Consent of all Germans and Others subject to the Empire have their Radical Power from this common Consent of all who by the Law of Nature could choose themselves an Emperour not from the Pope in whose Power it is not to give a King or Emperour to any Country in the World without its Consent But to this concurr'd the Consent of Greg. the Fifth as of the single Bishop of Rome who for the Degree in which he is has an interest in Consenting to the Common Emperour And rightly as in General Councels His Authority concurs in the first place by Consent with all the rest who make the Councel the force nevertheless of the Definition depends not on the first of all Bishops but on the common consent of all both of him and the rest This is what they say How far it is to be allow'd is another Question The Origin of Empires and Rights of Princes are things I have more disposition to admire and reverence then Dispute In the mean time here are Eight of his Twelve Examples which you see are all Contested how rationally you will judge Those which follow are of Gegory the Seventh who Deposed the Emperour Henry and Three Popes more who followed his Example to which he might have added several other it being acknowledged that after Gregory the Seventh had once begun many have imitated him and almost all claim'd a Power to do so But as He was the first unquestionable Author of that till then unknown Fact so they maintain that Fact was unjust in him and not allowable in any of his Successours They Answer then first with Jo. Paris That Arguments are not to be drawn from such singular Facts which proceed sometimes from Devotion to the Church or from some other Cause and not from Order of Law And with Greg. Tholos From hence I gather only that 't is a difficult Question Whether Popes can Depose Emperours or Kings who formerly had Power to make Popes Besides there are found divers Depositions of Popes by Emperours as well as of Emperours by Popes so that there has been a great Vicissitude in these things Whence 't is a bad way of Disputing to argue from Fact and the Examples of Deposition Out of all which Ambitious disturbers of the Commonwealth Vsurpers of Kingdoms and Rebels to their Lawful Princes may gather first That every Deposition of Princes is not therefore Just because it has been done for all Facts are not Just and secondly That no such Consequence ought to be made there is an Example of such a thing therefore the like may be attempted again And in the words of Bellarmin himself De Rom. Pont. L 2. C. 29. speaking to the Instances in which Popes have been Depos'd by Emperours Such things saies he have been done but how justly let them look to it 'T is plain that Otho the First Depos'd John the Twelfth with a good Zeal though not according to knowledge for this John was one of the worst Popes that ever was And therefore no wonder if a Pious Emperour as this Otho was but not so skillful in Ecclesiastical Affairs conceiv'd he might be Depos'd
Bellarmin or Calvin or if there be any of a more glorious sound is no more to me then his reason and at the hazard of being thought blunt or rash or over-weening I must needs avow to you I am for the what 's said and care little for who said it If every body were of my humor I mainly suspect this Indirect Power which makes so much ado would have long since appeared neither better nor worse then direct non-sense Pray let us consider it a little The Question is Whether there be in the Pope an Indirect Power to depose Kings He that would know whether this be true or no should do well in my opinion to take along with him what it means 'T is a Circumstance I must confess which is oft forgot and that forgetfulness I believe is the cause we find so much blind mans Buff in Books But yet for once it will not be amiss to remember it And because every body knows what Pope and Power means likewise what 't is to Depose and what a King is there is only this Indirect which needs unridling Now we often hear of Indirect dealing and Indirect courses in the world and 't is hard if people do not know what they mean Indeed we are apt when we hear these words to apprehend something shameful or bad because there is generally something shameful joyned with them fair ends being ordinarily fairly pursued But yet shameful is not the notion of Indirect For a good and commendable thing may be brought to pass Indirectly and if it be bad the badness is one thing and Indirectness another The Merchant who met with Pirats in the dusk of the evening when they could not discover his weakness and frighted them off by a counterfeit confidence hanging out his lights all night sav'd his Ship indirectly or by indirect means when direct fighting or flying had lost it And the Owner I suppose did not think this Indirectness blameable A Nuncio of a certain place is reported to have publisht an Excommunication thought unjust by the persons concern'd they had no power to take off this Excommunication themselves or command the Nuncio to do it Wherefore they took an indirect course and set Guards upon the Nuncio's House and suffered no Victuals to be brought in till he thought it better to recal his Excommunication then starve These men too compast their end indirectly yet commendably supposing the Excommunication was indeed unjust When David caused Vriah to be slain the action was both indirect and wicked but yet for several respects 'T was wicked because it was the death of an innocent man but indirect because he did not himself kill him or command him to be kill'd but ordered that out of which his death followed Wherefore when we say a thing is done indirectly we mean as I conceive that something is done which we would or could not do by immediately endeavouring the thing it self but which follows from some other thing we do And Indirect signifies not directed immediately to that thing in respect whereof 't is called Indirect but to some other out of which what happens whether by design or chance we say happens indirectly Now if this be the meaning of Indirect I am something at a loss how it can with propriety be apply'd to Power For Power seems as direct to every effect as to any Neither do I perceive how it can be directed otherwise than by being determined When a man of the many things he can do resolves upon one the power he has becomes by that resolution determined or directed to that one which he chuses what other direction there can be of power occurs not to me at present But if Indirect apply'd to Power signifie undetermin'd there is plainly no room for the distinction of Direct and Indirect For every Power is undetermin'd till it become determined and when it is determined it is direct or directed to that thing to which it is determined neither can there be such a thing as Indirect Power from which any thing can follow for nothing can follow from a power undetermined and Power from which nothing can follow is not Power And the truth is we do not give the name of Power to that which goes indirectly to work Not but that the intended effect may follow but we call it not Power in relation to such an effect We do not nor can with truth say a King has power to take away the lives of innocent Subjects although he may as David did Vriah command them something by which their Death may happen The Merchant ow'd his safety not to power but stratagem and luck And those who starv'd the Nuncio had no power to take off the Excommunication on the contrary 't was their want of power which made them act as they did So that I suspect those who first joyn'd these two words Indirect and Power together did not much amuse themselves with considering the import of them Indirect seeming a kind of Destroying or as they call it Alienating Term and making the Power to be not-Power Wherefore I believe 't is Action or Effect which is with propriety call'd Indirect not Power But yet because it matters not so we understand one another what words we use Power to an Indirect effect may with sence be called Indirect power So a Prince who to recover or preserve his right has direct power to make war may be said to have indirect power over his Subjects lives which must be hazarded in the war In this manner Indirect Power is intelligible and signifies Power to something out of which follows another thing which would not follow immediately from the Power it self This other thing may either be intended as the Death of Vriah or not intended as when one is slain in war whom the Prince is sorry to loose And from this Intention comes Wickedness or Innocence not Indirectness which proceeds only from this that the effect flows not immediately from the power but is joyn'd to something which does But now Indirect Power is become intelligible let him make it intelligible that can how the Deposing Power said to be in the Pope should be Indirect If he can command Deposition and must be obey'd when he commands and the Prince depos'd by force of that command his Power is as direct as Power can be For when the Pope says I Depose I pray what is it which he commands I understand he commands Deposition it self and not another thing out of which he expects Deposition should follow Again when his command as the luck on 't is it seldom does proves effectual and a King is deposed pray in vertue of what is he Deposed I understand 't is in vertue of that command Now because that Power is direct which immediately commands an effect which follows from that Command or Power there neither is nor can be any Indirectness found here but in the very notion of Direct So that I told you 't
was a scurvy thing to jabber words and never mind what they signifie For there is nothing in all this which Indirect power can mean but Direct Power In fine there is no way to make this Power Indirect but by saying either that the Pope when he commands Deposition does not command Deposition which for my part I would not do because I fear I should tell a lye or else that Deposition does not follow from that from which it follows and if I should say this too I fear I should tell two lies But however since Indirect sure must be some way opposite to Direct The Popes Power to be Indirect must be some way not directed to Deposition Which way this should be he must be wiser than I that can tell If Determination or Intention would do it sure it cannot be thought he is not determin'd or does not intend to do that which he commands And if the Directness be taken as it ought from the immediate influence of the power upon the effect we see he precisely commands this particular effect and 't is maintained this effect must follow in vertue of that command Now if any man can understand how a Power should be Indirect in respect of an Effect to which it is directed all the ways by which Power can be directed I would gladly be directed to that man to learn of him how nonsence may become sence But till I do meet him I must needs think that this distinction of Direct and Indirect in this case is a meer sound of words which signifie nothing and by which the Authors speculate themselves into nonsence and abuse themselves and their Readers I am not ignorant that those who maintain this Indirect Power speak otherwise of it but I think I speak as all men besides themselves speak and know not by vvhat right they force upon vvords meanings proper to their purpose and contrary to what general custom has fixt upon them To alter common and setled Notions is to perplex and embroyl things and condemn the inquiries of men to hopeless and endless confusion For Truth is discovered by seeing the connexion of Notions and Notions are known by Words and if the Notions belonging to vvords remain not steady and unchanged our search after Truth must needs end in uncertain noise and inextricable blunder He who has the liberty to alter the notion of vvords is empowred to maintain any thing If he take a fancy to defend that Jet is vvhite 't is but by vvhite meaning black and the business is done Where I see Notions changed I am mighty suspicious there is a design upon some Truth or other in the Changers And so I fear it happens in our case For if Indirect Power mean according to the apprehension of men Power to an Indirect effect Those who will maintain in the Pope an Indirect Power must to speak sence say that though he has not immediately and properly Power to Depose yet he has power to do something out of which Deposition vvill follow And this they vvould fain be at For give them their due they are no enemies to sence vvhile sence is no enemy to them They offer therefore sometimes at Excommunication and vvould make us believe that from thence must follow Deposition Excommunication is vvithout doubt a proper effect of Spiritual Power and so comes vvithin the sphere of the Popes activity and if it vvould but follow that an Excommunicated Person can have no Communication no vvay and vvith none An Excommunicated Prince vvould by that means be Deposed For he could not govern those vvith vvhom he could have no entercourse and if he could no longer govern he vvere no longer King This now is sence and intelligible but the mischief is it will not do They find Excommunication when they consider it a little better hinders indeed Communion in Spirituals but if there be any temporal tye to the Excommunicated person as of a Wife to a Husband a Servant to his Master all Subjects to their Prince Excommunication leaves this as entire and strong as it was before Any that has business with him may deal with him notwithstanding his Excommunication For it would be fine if when an Excommunicated person ows me mony I should not require my debt of him because he is Excommunicated Wherefore no Excommunication will hinder a Prince from conversing freely with his Subjects and his Subjects with him Nay they are obliged to all the acts of Duty to which they were before and not to become faulty themselves if perhaps their Prince be so Wherefore because this will not hold water they will not trust to it but think it safer to make bold with a word and give it a new notion than venture the cause upon a foundation which they are conscious will fail them 'T is a great deal better to talk a little non-sence than by obstinately sticking to sence hazard the loss of a good Cause That the Pope shall have power to depose Kings come what will they are resolv'd And because the Canonists do not thrive very well with their extravagance of making him sole and absolute Monarch of the World they think fit to be a little more modest and allay the bold heat with sprinckling this Indirect vpon it But then the notion of that word importing what they cannot make good there is no remedy but they must give it another If they could have kept the sence too it would have been so much the better but since that will not be they think it at least something if their Tenet let it signifie what it will sound not altogether so harshly as the Canonists with which they perceive the World not very well pleas'd Bellarmine therefore applies this lenitive and saies the Pope disposes of Temporals only Indirectly but whether he forgot the impertinent Circumstance or had any other reason never tells us what that word means in his Rom. Pont. where he first uses it but leaving it to shift for it self and us to guess what it means goes on to prove the power which he calls Indirect never offering to shew that 't is Indirect Neither is there any mention or use made of the word that I perceive in the whole course of his Arguments So that 't is manifest Power was the thing for which he was concern'd For the Indirect he thought it no great matter what became of it being perhaps in his own judgment but an insignificant sound without influence upon the thing Nevertheless against Barclay when he had bethought himself he kindly tells us what he means The Popes Power says he is per se and properly spiritual and therefore has reference Directly to spiritual matters as the primary object but Indirectly that is in order to Spirituals reductively and by necessary consequence to use that phrase looks upon Temporals as a secundary object to which it applys not it self but upon occasion casu or casualiter as the Canon speaks This is if you
the Pope to feign necessities and yet it may be said as truly as that Deposing belongs to him If Bellarmin could give good security the Pope should never do more then belong'd to him there might be something in it but if that were so we should not have heard so much of this Deposing power for that does not belong to him neither But belong or not belong he may feign a necessity by passion or he may judge that necessary which is not so by mistake and if he does so 't is all one as if he did not feign and not mistake when neither Prince nor any body else is allow'd to judge whether he feign or no. Unless the Pope be supposed infallible in sincerity too and that he will alwaies declare This man I depose upon a true and that upon a feigned necessity But if we must take all he saies is necessary to be truly necessary Kings may be depos'd at pleasure for he may say so when he pleases Marry if other people must see this necessity as well as himself all good subjects will tell him there neither is nor can be any necessity why a King should be depos'd I but saies Bellarmin because this is a matter of great importance and the necessity must be manifest and seen therefore Popes ordinarily do these things in Synods of Bishops or Consistories of Cardinals shewing his reasons and taking their consents Yes sure 't is a matter of great importance too great to be thus trifled with Manifest quotha I beseech you to whom must this necessity be manifest If to any besides himself why 't is manifest to all good Subjects that there neither is nor ever was nor ever shall or can be any such necessity and 't is manifest they are not good Subjects who think otherwise But if He alone be Judge of the manifest as well as the necessary his command without more ado is evidence enough that 't is manifest to Him it ought be commanded And I hope he can as easily and as soon say 'T is manifest as 'T is necessary Then for his Synods and Consistories I wonder what they are for Does he consult with them tro whether that be to be done of which there is a necessity and this necessity seen and manifest He may consult the How but the Whether is a wise point of consultation if it be already manifest Or is it perhaps to be made manifest by the consultation If so the case is not so clear as Bellarmin pretends and other persons more concern'd then his Synods and Consistories have reason to expect it should be made manifest to them too as well as the other Besides He who makes what Bishops and Cardinals he pleases and of such as he makes consults with whom he pleases has wit enough sure to chuse such of whom he may be certain before-hand they will oppose nothing which he shall propose Indeed if by his Synods he meant General Councels there might be more difficulty The Bishops of The Prince concern'd and of those Princes who were leagu'd with him would go neer to speak in his behalf Else Synod in his language imports no more then a company of Bishops perhaps not so much chosen according to the Popes pleasure And yet even thus much is more then he thinks necessary too He saies the Pope ordinarily does thus but if he will do otherwise He may for any thing Bellarmin saies to the contrary And the truth is 't is not to be expected but he will To depose a King is not every daies work 'T is an extraordinary case and in extraordinary cases there may be extraordinary proceedings However the Pope is still Judge of this as of all the rest and so when all is done we are purely at the Popes pleasure for all There is a brace more of Volunteers which though they be resolute enough and venture on any thing let it be never so desperate and let them have never so little to do with it yet Bellarmin spares them as much as he can and keeps them in reserve for dead-lifts and then which often happens they never fail him One is De Facto and De Jure This is a distinction good enough in it self but as he uses it only at a pinch and when he has nothing else to say it looks still like a piece of good stuff hung in a place which it will not fit For example Gregory the Great writing of a certain Law which for his own part he dislik't and thought unjust but yet publisht as he was commanded by the Emperour speaks thus I being subject to your command have caused the Law to be sent into several parts and because the Law agrees not with God Omnipotent I have by my Letter informed my Serene Lords Wherefore I have in both done what I ought obey'd the Emperour and not conceal'd what I thought for God Now I should think that to publish an unjust Law and where the Injustice concern'd the service of God and liberty of the Church as was here the case without the excuse which bears out a Subject who is not to examine but obey the commands of his Superiour is to do an unjust thing and for which now adaies Force would hardly pass for an excuse If any encroachment be thought made upon the Church in our times the language is presently I will die first I will suffer Martyrdom before the Cause of God and Ecclesiastical immunity shall suffer by my means I take this Pope to have been a man of as much zeal as those who use this language and acknowledg'd to be so and since he submitted to a bare command he either thought that command had power to oblige him or he acted against his Conscience without obligation Wherefore plainly he thought himself De Jure subject or De facto he did very ill For all that I says Bellarmin say this obedience was forc't de Facto not de Jure Why then I think you may say any thing Pray consider again good Bellarmin Does not he say he did but what he ought Vtrobique quod debui exolvi Does not what I ought signifie what is my duty and does Duty signifie Force with you Sure as can be a Cardinal may do what he pleases If he will have words signifie otherwise then they do there is no contesting Otherwise if the Pope were subject de Facto only not de Jure the Emperour had no Right to command him and if the Emperour had no Right to command the Pope had no obligation to obey and then he ought have done quite the contrary for Force is no excuse for injustice and what I ought signifies what I ought not which we dull men should never have suspected Allow us but the same liberty though and it shall be shamfully hard for which we will not make a shift to say some thing That Chalk is blew for example which we will say is white only de Facto but blew de Jure That
case For if the pretences be good Protestants cannot avoid them if bad Papists will not admit them Right is Right to Protestants as well as Papists and no Right has the same no force on us as you Popery would not hinder us from pleading Prescription nor Prescription from having its efficacy It sounds just as if he should say Let us keep the Pope out right or wrong for if he should come in it may chance be sound he has a Right which we are resolved not to acknowledge whether he have it or no. Such a discourse I take to be dishonourable to his own Religion as if they car'd not to do unjustly and hinder other folks of their due dangerous to the Commonwealth and supposing a falsity too palpable to admit of supposition namely that the Pope may have a Right to England But this by the by and for an exception to the fitness not substance of his discourse For though I think it not proper to his purpose and every jot as strong against themselves as us yet the difficulty as he has manag'd it truly with more strength then I have seen it urg'd elsewhere both deserves and requires an answer I hope we shall no longer pass for men blindly addicted to the Pope and his Interest when the world sees a Protestant take the Popes part and a Papist the Kings against him As tenacious as we are of what we believe his due I trust it will be acknowledged we believe nothing due which may keep us from being true to the Interest of our Country when all the discouragements we receive from our Country hinder us not from standing faithfully by it in opposition to his undue pretences whensoever and by whomsoever and howsoever urg'd And these are so urg'd that no Arguments with which I have had occasion to meddle of his profest Champions have given me so much to do But respiting this matter a little while I will take the liberty to alter your order and begin at the latter end of your letter because what you say there is of another nature from what goes before and things of a kind do best together You object that I am a single and which is more a conceal'd man and all I say or do inconsiderable And 't is true that I am inconsiderable enough all wayes whether in learning or credit Notwithstanding I thought my self able to answer your Objections If you thought it not considerable whether they were answered or no you did ill to put me to so much fruitless pains I thought you had sufficiently considered why you engaged me to write and lookt no farther then to answer as truly and plainly as I could To tell me at last that all my pains are to no purpose is a very unexpected objection and to which all I can answer is to complain of you for putting an inconsiderable employment upon me who could have spent that inconsiderably taken up time with some more satisfaction and it may be advantage to my self As for being single if it were so I should hope there is no such urgent necessity that a man should be punisht because he has no company To say as you do that the Eye of the Law cannot look on particulars is something surprizing when we see them found out and brought to punishment every day and why particulars may not with as much ease be indemnifi'd as punisht I cannot comprehend 'T is a plain case that the care of the Law does extend to particulars and in other cases provides for the security of every single man whose guilt excludes him not from their protection Me thinks 't is very hard that Peter must suffer because he is not Paul too or because Paul will not think as Peter does therefore Peter too must go to pot and two be punisht because one offends But to give you satisfaction in this point according to your own fancy consider that Merit and Demerit are general things and proper objects of the care of Laws Encouragement of the one and Discouragement of the other are the hinges on which Government turns Law-makers without numbring heads and counting how many come under one or the other branch frame their Laws in general and proposing Hopes and Fears to make them chuse right leave Particulars to the choice of their own wayes Let the same Providence be extended to this case which if it were not to others Commonwealths would hardly subsist and I have no more to desire of you I hope 't were no disgrace to the Law if I were the only man who reap't benefit by it But indeed I am not single I have heretofore told you there are more of my mind and I tell you again you shall find it so if people once may freely say what they think But while you involve us all guilty or not guilty in the same mass of perdition while we are sure to be no jot better for speaking and not sure but we may be much worse by adding dissatisfactions among our selves to the severities we fear from you me thinks you should not complain of our silence This is to tye up a mans tongue and then blame him for saying nothing Pray let us see some good likely to come of speaking either to you or our selves or some body before you oblige us to expose our selves to more harm then we are subject to already No Friend 'T is not Fear of being disown'd by my fellows which conceals me but Fear I shall be no better Fear I may be worse lookt on by you and if you will permit me to say it Grief for having that cause of Fear Not but that I know well enough that every one of my Communion is not of my perswasion in this point of the Popes power But you know I have often declared I desire favour only for those who are How many there be truly I know not nor will use any endeavours to know For I fear you would not take it well if any of us should go about to make an estimate of the strength of a party There may be more there may be fewer But the fewer there be the less reason I should think to exclude them from your protection since evidently there can be no danger from a few How I fear if we should prove more then you imagin you would then object number to us with a little mroe speciousness and a great deal more concern Since every body desires to have as few Enemies as they can while you will not let us be friends I cannot believe you much in earnest when you object fewness to us You say this because it came in your way but otherwise would be better pleas'd if I mistake not if we were fewer then we are Indeed you urge not this fewness as dangerous but as inconsiderable But why should Innocence be thought so inconsiderable a thing Innocence is Innocence in one man as well as a thousand and should not be cast carelesly away
say that whatever out of the strength of his wit He alledges on the other side yet this Charter is no more valid in his judgment than in other folks And I do not mean that 't is become now invalid by the force of Prescription for this he has sufficiently declared but that it was originally and always invalid Truly I am mistaken if this may not be concluded from what he says elsewhere when dis-engaged from the desire of making good his Argument he frankly discovers his true sentiments Pag. 239. considering an observation made in a former Letter on the particular Fact of the Emperour Frederick he replies That whether supreme Princes may put it into a Forreigners power to compel them to cession by a direct deprivation of their Right of Government is a case which he thinks none will easily grant to be either Just or Secure for the Common-wealth for which they were concern'd I conceive that when K. John resign'd his Kingdom and receiv'd it again to hold of the Pope as principal Lord to whom he became a Vassal He put it into the power of a Forreigner to compel him not only by Ecclesiastical Censures but by a direct deprivation of his Right of Government And this he declares to be Unjust and Unsafe for the Commonwealth King John then even in his own opinion did unjustly and against the good of the Commonwealth that is had not Right to do what he did and his Act was invalid from the beginning I suppose therefore He will acknowledg on second thoughts that there are other ways to bound the actions of supreme Princes besides Compacts and Concessions and that Justice and the Safety of the Commonwealth are two of those ways in which other Princes were obliged to walk as well as K. John and if they did not their Actions are not to be drawn into example I will hope the Question is resolved to satisfaction For I know no fairer nor surer way to end a difference than to put it to Judgment And since 't is judged on my side by an Authority from which there lyes no appeal and by those who one would expect should be most partial on the other Those who contriv'd the Deed and Him who urges it Of the Popes Temporal Monarchy I should think there is no more to be desir'd If any mans curiosity reach further he may find wherewith to satisfie it in those who have already handled this Subject particularly the learned Crakanthrop But to touch briefly what is more largely treated elsewhere the Charter contradicts and destroys it self reserving in one place what it grants in another There is in it an express saving of the Rights given away by this clause Salvis nobis Haeredibus nostris Justitiis Libertatibus Regalibus nostris Nothing can be more manifest than that the Independency of the Crown belongs to the Regalia and again that subjection is opposite to Liberty And yet the Regalia and Liberty are expresly reserv'd at the same time when the Crown is made Dependent and Subject This is just I give you a hundred pound which hundred pound I keep to my self Which is an unvalid and self-destructive Act and passes nothing and is in truth a piece of Non-sence not a Gift Again that the Regalia Imperii are Inalienabilia without consent of the Subjects is a point setled by a consent so unanimous of all Nations that there is no Maxim more known 'T is very troublesome and more idle to fill paper with Quotations for a point better known than the Author to be quoted This too is a receiv'd Maxim that Metus cadens in virum constantem nuls the Act extorted by fear of which besides a hundred examples in all nations some even of Popes themselves who upon that ground have voided their own Acts the Pope to whom this Grant was made has left a very pregnant instance in the case of this very King The Barons a little after obtained the Magna Charta from him confirmed by all the security they could devise The Pope solemnly declares all proceedings void because extorted by fear But it is most evident that K. John had no greater cause of fear when he past the Magna Charta than he had when he signed the Charter to the Pope Pandulph brought him to it by exaggerating his imminent danger the French with a vast Army ready to land backt with the Ecclesiastical power of the Clergy and Arms of the Laity whereof many of the principal were said to have oblig'd themselves by authentick Charters to assist the French The King yielded confusus valde mente nimis perturbatus videns undique sibi periculum imminere in the words of M. Paris Could there be more fear from the Barons alone than from the same Barons and French and Pope too Or could his fear in one case make his Act void and signify nothing in the other So that there is this very good reason to believe that the Pope himself to whom the Kingdom was granted judged the Grant nul because he declared an Act of the same King nul by a less fear than that which extorted his Grant This too was understood by those who drew the Charter and inserted this other clause Non vi inducti nec Timore coacti sed nostra bona spontaneaque voluntate By which it is apparent that there was more than one clause contrary to Truth and that more was requisite to the validity of the Act even in the judgment of the Contrivers than could be had Which is that the Act was invalid as wanting what themselves thought necessary to make it valid By this and much more alledged by divers the Nullity of that Grant of K. John appears I think very undeniably supposing in him all the Right which can be supposed in any King of England But by our Authors favour what he takes for granted that K. John had undoubted Kight to the Crown at the passing of this act is very far from undoubted A Sister of Arthur's was then living and long after in whom the Right of Arthur could not but be When K. John by his success at Mirabel got Arthur into his hands he made use of the opportunity of his victory to seize likewise upon his Sister Elianor whom he brought into England and confin'd to Bristol Castle There was another and I think an elder Sister but what became of her I know not In likelyhood she died before these times But this Lady surviv'd her Uncle The Pope mentions her among those who had right to the Crown to the Embassadors of Lewis M. Paris ad an 1216. who sought to justify their Masters title to England and the French objected against her what if it have any force in their Law has none in ours For it is a plain case that the elder line takes place of the younger in the inheritance of the Crown and no act or forfeiture of K. John could bar the right of
Melchisedech That when Christ being a King and a Priest received all judgment of the Father that is most full judicial power He joyning the same with his Priesthood did institute in the Church a regal Priesthood translating in suos I conceive he means St. Peter and his Successors all the power he had of his Father This new coronation of King Peter so long after his death and the mystery of King and Priest meeting in Melchisedech which St. Paul never dreamt of though he treat the subject particularly and something to better purpose and the admirable expedient to avoid dissentions by taking away Regal power are pleasant matters and deserve to be reflected on but that I have so much of this divertive stuff to produce that I cannot stay every where Thomas Bozius tells us Tho. â—ozias de jure stat praefat ad Aldobrand that if Christ be King of Kings and Lord of Lords in like sort the Church must be Queen and Lady that all temporal Regal power doth reside first in the soul of Christ and then in the Church his Spouse the Queen of the World and from her is deriv'd to others Faithful or Infidels as out of a fountain Isid Moscon de Majest militant Eccles P. 96. Isidorus Mosconius sayes to the same purpose That not only all faithful people but likewise Infidels and every natural creature is subject to the commandment of the Pope he is to be worshipped of all men and for this cause he receiveth of all the faithful adorations prostrations and kissing of his feet What pretty truths there are in the World which negligent men overslip by inadvertence who would have thought the Mogul and King of Pegu and Chinese Tartar had deriv'd their little streams of power from the great Channel of the Church Ungrateful men who so little acknowledge their Benefactors But since all natural creatures are subject to his commands I wish some body that has credit would prevail with him that Lyons and Bears and Adders and such naughty natural creatures might be forbidden to do us any harm for the future For as simple as he seems to sit at Rome and though he is pleased to make but little shew of any such power he can stop the mouths of Lyons and quench the violence of Fire So that had we not been Hereticks he might have done us a greater kindness here at London in the time of the fate dismal Fire then we are aware of I warrant you he could have whisper'd down the wind and with one grave Nod have cool'd the courage of the Fire But let us return to Mosconius P. 91 teaching us farther that the Pontifical and Regal power and all other powers are most plentiful in the Pope and do reside in the Pontifical dignity That all dominions whatsoever depend upon the Church P. 656. and upon the Pope as Head of the Church That in the Pope Authority is consider'd in Emperors and Kings power P. 670. and thence it is that power doth depend upon Authority P. 27. That the Pope is call'd universal Judge King of Kings and Lord of Lords P. 677. That Emperors and Kings may be compell'd to keep their oaths taken in their Coronation and Confirmation in that by virtue of such oath they are made the Popes Subjects P. 80. That all temporal Jurisdiction must be exercised not at the Popes command but at his Beck Princes will charge command God who is Lord of all doth by his beck command according to that Dixerat nutu totum tremefecit Olympum That Christ had full Jurisdiction over all the world and all creatures P. 85. and therefore the Pope his Vicar hath so In truth these Authors of yours are considerative men and as careful as they are able They reflect that Popes are generally old men and have often weak lungs and 't was charitable to exempt them from the painful trouble of commanding and make a nod serve the turn Carrerius in his zeal against impious Politicians and Heretics teaches us That true just ordain'd by God Alex. Carrer de Potest Rom. Pont. p. 9. and mere dominion as well in spiritual things as in temporal was brought forth by Christ and the same was committed to St. Peter and his Successors That Christ was Lord over all Inferiors P. 111. not only as God but likewise as man having even then Dominion in the earth and that therefore as the dominion of the world was in Christ both divine and humane so it must be confessed that it was in the Pope his Vicar That the mystery of Redemption being accomplisht Christ as a King gave unto Peter the administration of his Kingdom and St. Peter did execute that his power against Ananias and Saphira That Ghrist as he is man is directly Lord over all the world in Temporalities P. 124. and that therefore the Pope is so likewise in that he is Vicar That the supreme power of judging all and the top of dignities P. 126. and the height of both powers are found in Christs Vicar That as the divine and humane dominion were in Christ P. 150. so in Christs stead the dominion of the world in the Pope is both spiritual and temporal P. 151. divine and humane That the unremovable Truth doth design by Peters only coming by water to Christ that the whole dominion which is signified by the Sea is committed to St. Peter and his Successors 'T is quaint that and surprizing but yet this water me thinks is something an unstedy foundation That as the Pope cannot say he is not Christs Vicar so he cannot deny but that he is Lord over all things because the earth is the Lords and the fulness thereof whereby all things heavenly earthly and infernal are subject unto Christ the Lord and thence it is that he did commit unto the Pope who doth supply his place upon earth the right of the Heavenly and Terrene Empire That he should forget the infernal Empire the famous Purgatory power which for all it be under ground time has been when no glebe above ground has been more fruitful Elsewhere he teaches that there are divers Powers of men given by God P. 142. and divers Authorities all which do depend upon the highest Authority meaning I suppose the Popes and thence as the stars from the sun receive their light That the Imperial power concerning the administration of temporal matters doth proceed from the Pontifical power P. 145. as the light of the Moon from the light of the Sun P. 161. That the Empire of Rome before it was converted to Christ was a dominion usurpt and tyrannical because the true dominion was in the line of Christ That the Emperor is the Popes Minister for God did appoint him tanquam summi Sacerdotis Ministrum That no King or Emperor hath jurisdiction or dominion but from Christ and by consequence can have none at all but from his
to understand a power given to absolve from the Bond of Debt Again c. 14. To Peter was given spiritual power onely to remit sins nor can be do any thing in temporals but in foro conscientiae Aegid Rom. Q. de utraque potestat art 3. It is to be understood that Christ had a threefold power over bodies souls and temporal goods The first he us'd by curing infirmities c. The second viz. Spiritual he both us'd and delegated as much as is necessary and expedient for the good of Souls The third He neither us'd nor gave but rather forbad both to Peter and the other Apostles as is said And concludes In the Commission given to Peter his Vicar we read not temporal but onely spiritual power committed to him I will give Thee the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven he said not and Dominion over worldly things Wherefore he presently adds as explicating himself to mean onely spiritual power Whatever you shall bind c. Ambros Catharin upon Rom. 13. That the pope is Vicar of Christ is nothing to purpose to make us believe he has power given him to rule all the World in temporals It rather perswades us such power was not given him because Christ refus'd it and as he was man had it not in the World for after the Resurrection 't was said all power is given me c. But in this World he was subject to secular powers Wherefore he left the Pope Vicar of that Kingdom which was given him by his Father while he liv'd on Earth namely the spiritual Kingdom over his Sheep c. Otherwise if he be the Vicar of Christ absolutely according to all the power which Christ had he should have power over Angels and the Blessed which is ridiculous And again These powers are different from one another and no man can usurp either at his pleasure and to think and teach otherwise is most seditious and most horrible Anton. de Rosell de Protestat Imp. Pap. p. 1. c. 38. Whence I conclude 't is Heresie and Madness to say that the universal Administration of Temporals is or can be in the Pope Greg. Haimbarg de prim Pap. Whence it appears 't is a fable and invention that is writ in the Decretals that Popes have the plenitude of power givem them and such a Dominion that they are over Kings and Princes in Temporals They are smart fellowes these Schoolmen and speak home and yet are good Catholicks for all that and acknowledg'd to be so neither are they otherwise reprov'd or reprovable then as Scholars take the freedom to censure one another Mean time since a Catholick may unreprovably hold that the two powers were distinguisht by Christ and joyn'd by the Devil the temporal committed to Princes and the spiritual to Bishops who if they be Souldiers of God are not to meddle with secular business that while Bishops dispense divine Princes are to administer humane things that to the Clergy belong onely spirituals and the Popes power has nothing to do with possessions that dominion is forbidden him and onely the Rod of direction granted c. I hope you may quiet your fears and not suspect I shall either be disown'd or reprov'd by my Church if upon the security of so much Authority I deny your first Proposition and affirm the Popes Vicarship is confin'd to spirituals and that it hinders not Princes from being Gods Vicars as well as himself who if they manage all their trust are accountable onely to him second to whom they are and except whom they have none above them I mean in their own kind Onely I would not have you boggle at this that the Pope is not every where expresly nam'd For though the Order of Government require that the Head should have more power then an inferior Member as the Commission of a General must be larger then that of a private Captain yet I think none will doubt but the power of the Pope and the rest of the Clergy is all of the same kind and the more which belongs to him as Head of the Church signifies more of the same sort of actions not power of another nature But because I am to say nothing of my self let St. Leo tell you this and more in a Sermon inserted into the Churches Office on the Feast of St. Peters Chair at Antioch where speaking of the Confession of St. Peter and the promise made him upon it The force indeed says he of this power past into the other Apostles and the Constitution of this Decree of the keys descended to all the Princes of the Church but 't is not without cause that what is intimated to all is commanded to one For this is therefore particularly entrusted to Peter because the example of Peter is propos'd to all the Governors of the Church And so much to the first Proposition which though I have abstained from treating dogmatially yet I have said or rather shew'd you that others say what may abundantly quiet your fears and that a Catholick who confines the Popes power onely to spirituals is so far from contradicting my principle receiv'd amongst Catholicks that he has the warrant of great I had almost said all Authority on this side at least so much that is not well consistent with Catholick principles to oppose it But I pray mistake me not for though I have said nothing of my self yet I would not be misinterpreted so much as to have alledg'd ought which might be thought to question any not onely spiritual but even temporal power which may justly belong to the Church and which when it does she may without doubt justly use But 't is one thing to have power by agreement of men and another by Commission from Christ and I would say no more then St. Bernard has said before me that however such things may belong to the Church yet not by right of Apostleship Your Argument assum'd that a Vicar had the same power with him whose Vicar he is what I have alledg'd was only to answer that and as I am not oblig'd so I meant not to go farther What I shall adde in examination of your second Proposition you will perceive is more to satisfie your Friendship then your Argument for whether Christ had temporal Dominion or no if he gave it not to the Pope the Pope is never the near and your Argument sufficiently cleer'd Notwithstanding since I would not give you cause to complain I neglect any thing you propos'd let us consider how far this is true that Christ had all temporal as well as spiritual power But Friend I hope your feud to formalities is abated for I must tell you beforehand there is no discoursing on this subject without distinguishing the God from the Man Yow know in Christ the distinct properties of both Natures were so united that they both made but one Sacred Person to which person nothing can be deny'd which can with truth be affirm'd of God and none
either grounded upon or warranted by the Instruction left by S. Peter to his fellow Pastours in these words 1 Pet. 5. Feed the flock of God which is among you providing not by constraint but willingly according to God neither for filthy lucre sake but voluntarily neither as over-ruling the Clergy but made Examples of the flock from the heart From these words some gather this difference betwixt the Spiritual and Temporal Power that the one is accompanied with the power of Constraint the other not I know the word Coacte is sometimes expounded otherwise and that some and in particular V. Bede understand by it the exclusion of that Mercenary interest which in service some propose to themselves while others serve for Love And this sence is without doubt a good and a true one but I know not whether the Apostle meant it though peradventure he or rather his Inspirer might according to S. Austin's Rule That all the Truth was meant by God which is contained in the words he Inspired Otherwise that seems to be the import of the Second Branch Not for lucre but voluntarily and this Interpretation with a needless tautology makes the two branches signifie but one thing which the Apostle seems nevertheless to distinguish However it be considering that before S. Peter Christ himself puts Dominion and non-dominion for the difference betwixt Secular and Spiritual Power The Kings of the Gentiles have dominion over them but you not so Luke 22.25 And that S. Paul tells the Corinthians The arms of his warfare are not carnal Cor. 10. I conceive that whatever S. Peter meant this doctrine is very true that Force and Constraint belong only to the Civil Magistrate and not to the Spiritual I mean in vertue of his being a Spiritual Magistrate for these Formalities of which you profess'd so much dislike return again in spight of my teeth and there is no discoursing without them Otherwise the man who is a Spiritual Magistrate may upon other accounts justly have and justly use Constraint nay it may be his due in consideration of his Spiritual Magistracy but not originally deduc'd from thence but annexed to it or accrued by other means According to S. Bernard mentioned in my last Not by right of Apostleship Now if I can make out to you that it may irreprovably be held in our Church that this Spiritual Power of which you are so jealous cannot use Force or Constraint upon any man I hope you will have no cause of complaint against it nor fewel for those fears which still disquiet you For certainly a Power which cannot use Force is a little dangerous If it can perswade you to what it would you then act by your Inclination or Choice but if it cannot you are free to do what you will And I think you would not wish to be more safe Consider then what men they are whom they must reprove who will reprove this Doctrine And first S. Hierom delivers it very plainly Epitaph Nepot Ep. 3. We must obey the Bishop as the King nay the Bishop less than the King for he is over the unwilling the Bishop over the willing One subjects by Fear the other is given to Service One imprisons the Body to death the other preserves the Soul to life S. Greg. Nazian Apologet We ought not to constrain by Force or Necessity but perswade by Reason and Example of our lives Again Our Law and Law-maker have especially provided that the flock be fed not by constraint but freely and willingly And Orat. 1. cont Jul. Apost These things Julian had in his mind as those who were privy to his secrets discovered but he was restrained by the clemency of God and the tears of the Christians whereof many and by many had now been shed since this was their only remedy against a Persecutor S. Jo. Chrysost in Act. Hom. 3. comparing the care of a Bishop with the care of a Father makes that of a Bishop much more heavy as having more Children and less Power What saies he will not the Bishop endure who has so many not of his houshold Family but whose Obedience is in their own power Again The Emperour has command over the whole world the Bishop is Bishop only of one City and yet he has as much more care as there is difference betwixt a River stir'd with the wind and the Sea swelling and raging Why so because there are there more helps since all things are perform'd by Laws and Commands here is no such thing for it is not lawful to command by Authority Hom. 10. in 1. Thessalon A Father both by Natural and Civil Laws uses his Child with much freedome If he instruct him against his will if he strike him none hinders him nor dares the Son himself look up A Priest has much difficulty for first he must rule those that are willing to be ruled and whom by his government he is to please Again We domineer not over your Faith Beloved nor order these things by the right of command and dominion To us is commended the speech of Doctrine not the Authority of Power and Principality We hold the place of Counsellors and Exhortors He who counsels when he delivers his opinion forces not the hearer to accept it but leaves in his power the free choice of what is to be done And Hom. 1. in Ep. ad Tit. I omit to say that a Bishop cannot with truth be called a Prince Why Because it is in the Power of their Subjects to obey or not Again De Sacerdot L. 2. External Judges when they find wicked men who have transgrest the Laws shew themselves endued with great Power and Authority and force them to change their manners whether they will or no. But here we must not use force but only perswade and by that means make him become better whose cure we have undertaken For neither have we any Power given by Law to force Delinquents and if we had we have not whereon to exercise this force and Power since Christ gives an eternal Kingdom to those who not by force but by a firm resolution of the soul abstain from sin Wherefore there is need of much art that Christians who are ill-affected will perswade themselves that they ought submit to the cure of Priests Again upon these words in the last to the Heb. Hom. Ult. Obey your Prelates that they may do this with joy not lamenting c. You see that when an Ecclesiastical Prince is contemned he ought not return revenge but all his revenge is to weep and sigh And upon Isa 6. Hom. 4. The King forces the Priest exhorts He with necessity this by counsel He has sensible this spiritual arms c. S. Aust de fide oper C. 2. says The material sword used in the Old Testament by Moyses and Phinees was a figure of the degradations and excommunications to be exercised in the New when in the discipline of the Church the visible sword should cease Origen
sufficient Power cleer the World from Mahumetism and Infidelity and Idolatry which likewise are main obstacles to Salvation and provide for the safety of so many Millions as are lost by them Farther Amongst Christians A man commits a mortal Sin and runs mad upon it Has the Church sufficient Power to restore this man to his Wits that he may Repent and be saved Can She hinder Abortions and bring all Children alive to Baptism And twenty other such Cross Questions they put But to Answer the Argument more precisely They consider this sufficient Power in the Church either in order to it Self or in order to all things necessary to the Effect Considering the Power in it self it is abundantly sufficient for as much as is required on that side but because to the Effect many things are required besides sufficient Power or Efficacy in the Cause as that the Subject be fitly disposed the Cause duly apply'd c. they say a Defect in these things argues no insufficiency in the Power and the Power may be very sufficient for as much as belongs to the Nature of Power and yet the Effect not follow for want of some disposition in the Subject For Example The Sun has sufficient Power to enlighten the whole World the Fire has sufficient power to burn that stack of Wood though the Sun cannot level a Mountain which intercepts the course of his beams nor the Fire has hands to bring the Wood to it or legs to carry it to the Wood. Wherefore they say The Church has Power abundantly sufficient to bring Men to Salvation for as much as is requisite on the part of Power but 't is a wild conceit to think She can remove all obstacles which Nature or Chance casts in her way to hinder the exercise of that Power And if one of those Obstacles happen to be the Wickedness of a Prince the Churches sufficient Power to Save men can no more take Him away than the Suns sufficient power to shine level a Mountain What her sufficient Power or Means to Save men are we may learn from those who certainly best know the end of the Church and Means to attain it the first Planters of Christianity who by there Example have instructed us That efficacious Preaching and more efficacious Living according to the Holy Doctrine they Preach'd Charity and Patience and humble Zeal are the sufficient Means which have prevailed upon the Converted vvorld and when they are in Gods fit time duly apply'd vvill be as sufficient for the rest In the mean time we may learn of Bellarmin that God vvill have a care of his Church and whatever he think must think our selves That Prayer is as good a remedy against a Bad Prince as a Wicked Popes And therefore that Proposition which assumes that a Deposing Power is necessary or that the Churches Power would be Insufficient without it they flatly deny From the same Head Bellarmin Argues again Every Commonwealth because it has Power sufficient to preserve it self and bring its Subjects to Temporal happiness may command another Commonwealth which is not subject to it to cease from doing injury to her and hinder her from the prosecution of her just Ends and if it refuse to Obey may Depose the Prince of it and set up another who will be more Just in case there be no other way to avoid wrong from it Therefore much more may the Spiritual Commonwealth command the Temporal which is subject to it and Depose the Prince in case She cannot otherwise compass Her End the Salvation of Souls And this Argument they treat not more favourably than the former For they say first It assumes plain Contradiction vvhen it puts two Commonwealths both independent and free and yet puts a Power in the one to command the other which is to make that other Subject and not Free Again It assumes without any reason and against all Truth That the Temporal Commonwealth is subject to the Spiritual which they will by no means admit unless perhaps of a Spiritual Subjection and that too of the persons as Faithful not as a common-wealth in which respect every absolute Commonwealth is absolutely free from all Subjection to any but God Farther they retort it as the former and say It concludes as well a Power in the Temporal Commonwealth over the Spiritual as in the Spiritual over the Temporal For say they The Temporal is a perfect Common-wealth too and has Power sufficient to attain its End Wherefore if the Spiritual hinder her in the prosecution of Her ends She may command the Spiritual Commonwealth to surcease and if the Spiritual Prince prove Disobedient depose him and set up another since the Spiritual Commonwealth is as subject to the Temporal in Temporals as the Temporal to the Spiritual in Spirituals But to Answer the Argument more directly they deny that this forcible proceeding of one Independent Commonwealth with another argues any Superiority or Subjection in either What they do in this kind if it be well done being justified by the force of Nature and light of Reason and lawless Law of Necessity vvhich teaches Force to be then fitly us'd when nothing but Force will compass an End otherwise necessary Otherwise this kind of Power is no other than a Strong man has to take away the Purse of a Weak one and there is no doubt but whoever has it may if he vvill make use of it and so the Pope if he be strong enough may certainly Depose a Prince as a Prince may a Pope But they wonder Bellarmin should be so little considerative as instead of a Power of just Authority to talk of a power of Strength in which they think he has done the Church but little service for if She come to vye with Princes in this kind of Power the Material Sword which belongs to them will in all likelyhood wound the Spiritual Outward-man more sensibly than the Spiritual Sword will the Carnal man Mean time they conceive he take a bad Method to conclude an Authoritative Power in the Church by the example of a Power in Commonwealths which is not Authority but Strength Another Argument Bellarmin makes from the obligation of Christianity in this manner It is not lawful for Christians to endure an Infidel or Heretic Prince of that Prince endeavour to draw his Subjects to Heresie or Infidelity But it belongs to the Pope to judge whether he be guilty of so drawing them or no wherefore to the Pope it belongs to Judge whether he ought to be Deposed or no. Because he could not but foresee his first Proposition would be deny'd him he provided Proofs which before I meddle with I must inform you what they say to thus much of the Argument for they are no where smarter This say they is without more adoe to put all Kingdoms into the Popes hands and make him as Absolute as the most extravagant of Canonists can fancy him For since there are but two things considerable
the Fire burns de Facto but only warms de Jure That Bellarmin is a great Scholler de Facto but de Jure none at all I know I speak impertinently but I meant to do so and yet think I speak as pertinently as he who saies Duty is only duty de Facto but de Jure not duty He might ee'n as well have made use of his Indirect here too and said the Pope was subject only Indirectly but was not subject Directly or contrariwise for 't is all one Young Sophisters sometimes when they are put to it and know not how to shift off an Argument find something or other which sounds like a distinction no matter what it signifies and whether any thing or nothing so it serve turn for the present And I doubt he remembred the trick a little too long But Subjection to Princes being prov'd by Examples and Commands This is the Reserve for Examples when they are ill-natur'd and will not be turn'd off otherwise For Commands there is another common place which now 't is known is nothing but he was a very subtle man lure that first discovered it It consists in distinguishing the same man into a Prince and a not-Prince and then interpreting all obedience we find commanded belongs to the Prince only the not-Prince has no share in it This distinction because it is indeed a little hard they attribute to the Omnipotent power of the Pope and say that the Prince till he be deposed is a Prince but afterwards no Prince and because it still falls short for the man governs and lives like a Prince still they etch it out with its fellow distinction and say he is no Prince de Jure though he be de Facto And now bring 'em as many and as plain places for obedience as you will 't is the easiest thing in the world to get cleer of them Bring Scripture bring Fathers that a Prince is to be obey'd True say they while he is a Prince but now he is no longer a Prince Princes in my opinion have hard luck to stand in the Popes way and become the first sad examples of his Omnipotence otherwise there is no Law of God or Man which may not be overturn'd as easily by the same engine For he may as soon and as well declare That Wife to be no Wife That Man to be no Man and make Adultery and Murther lawful as that King to be no King and make Rebellion innocent There would not want as likely pretences for the one as the other if people would but look after them For Example A Man is a rational Creature who acts unreasonably disclaims his nature and may be dispatch't without contradicting the Divine Law which forbids men to be kill'd while they are men but he by the Popes declaration is no man As much may be found out for the Wife as much for Estates as much for every thing For there neither is nor can be any stronger title to any thing then the Law of God and that the King has to his Kingdom and if that will not do nothing will This is just Montalto Sin but enough and you trapan the Devil and become vertuous even by being wicked To refuse obedience to a King is with them a crime and a crime which deserves damnation marry to Un-king him and deny there is any obedience due to him is an innocent thing As if taking his Power quite away were not a greater disobedience then to resist it A particular disobedience may have a particular and sometimes excusable cause but a general disobedience such as leaves them no longer any Power to command is of all disobedience the greatest most inexcusable in it self and most contrary to the Divine Law And yet he would perswade us we sin if we obey not a particular perhaps trifling Command but if we take away Power and all we are very honest men Whereas in truth when I disobey a Power which I acknowledge perhaps I wrong my self most for I do not my duty but when I no longer acknowledge my Princes Power I do him as well as my self the greatest wrong I can and yet this greatest wrong with Bellarmine is no wrong These are the healing Distinctions which Bellarmine applies to his Doctrine and by which the sound Deposing is to be distinguisht from the unsound Deposing If you find any such soveraign vertue in them I shall be glad to learn it But for our part we think Deposing an uncurable disease a poyson for which there is no Antidote Disguise it how you will while it remains Deposing 't is alike intolerable alike inconsistent wâ—th the safety of Princes and duty of Subjects Call the Power indirect call it in Temporals not temporal as long as 't is Power and can do the feat no honest ear can hear it Tell us of admonition and space of repentance tell us of Synods and Consistories of disposing the prey according to Justice of not feigning necessities tell us what you will while you tell us Deposing is good Doctrine we cannot believe you good Subjects Bring a thousand Schoolmen and ten thousand subtilties against them all we will stand by our honest Parliament Doctrine That the Crown of England is and alwayes has been free and subject immediately to God and none other and who refuses his Fellowship in that Doctrine I know not with what face he can pretend to a Fellowship in any thing else But the truth is I do not see that Bellarmine with all his art does so much as guild the bitter Pill or make it a jot less nauseous For what is the very worst the Canonists say Take their opinion in his own expressions and he says all they say and in terms as positive and as comprehensive Take Carerius or whoever is the highest flyer among those I sent you at first and the worst is but this That the Pope has jurisdiction over all things both spiritual and temporal throughout the world that he may absolve Subjects from the Oath of Allegeance Depose Kings and transfer their Dominions from one line to another And which of this worst does Bellarmine with his proper Distinctions and cautious Buts deny 'T is true they call his Power Direct and Bellarmine Indirect but what matter is it how they are called if one can do as much as the other And I would fain know what they can do with their Direct which be cannot with his Indirect 'T is true they make but one absolute Monarch of the world and all the rest but arbitrary Lieutenants and Bellarmine cals them true Kings but makes them as much subject as if they were but Lieutenants Were Kings perswaded once it were their duty to resign at the Popes command they would themselves make no difficulty to call and think him their supreme Lord. 'T is only in consideration of the scurvy consequence which would follow viz. that being supreme and absolute Lord he might dispose of his own as he
would have this one Spiritual Power command both in Spirituals and Temporals Which is of two to make one third Power neither wholy Spiritual be cause it extends to Temporals nor wholy Temporal because it acts in Spirituals but equivalent to both And if this be not to confound the two Powers and make one of these two which he saies Christ would have divided I would be glad to learn what is and what other way they can be confounded And yet the jest is even while he does this he presses the confusion of the Powers as a great inconvenience upon the Canonists who are not altogether so faulty as himself and can extricate their Doctrine a great deal better In two words either he confounds the Powers and then he disobeys Christ who he saies would have them kept asunder or he does not and then he disobeys him in permitting one to meddle with the rights of the other For certainly 't is the right of the Temporal power to command the Subjects to that power and require their allegiance and service And to take away these Subjects and this Allegiance is to meddle and that very far too vvith what belongs to the right of another The Truth is these Tricks turn a question of as great importance as any in the world into pure words and illusion The vvorld is in suspence about the decision of this great Question concerning the independent Soveraignty of the two Powers and how that command in the Gospel Reddite quae sunt Caesaris Caesari quae sunt Dei Deo should be obey'd All the learning of ten Ages teach the powers were distinguisht by Christ one given to the Bishop the other to the Prince The Canonists and they but some and all late men teach they were given both to the Pope This third indirect Party coming to settle a point of this importance profess at first that the Powers truly are as Christ commanded they should be distinct and the Pope for his share has the Spiritual only Would not any man think now the business decided and that we had no more to do but obey our Prince in Temporals and Bishop or if you will Pope for I will not meddle with that question in Spirituals and there 's an end Why this 't is to be illiterate says Bellarmin and not understand distinction The Popes power is only Spiritual but yet this Spiritual power indirectly and for the good of Souls virtually and by means of some other proprieties of speech extends likewise to Temporals and may dispose of Kingdoms as it sees fit Why then call it Temporal in the name of God if it can dispose of Temporals and say the Pope is Universal Monarch if he be so and stand to it Yes we do stand to it replies Bellarmin but we love to speak properly and do not call the Pope Vniversal Monarch though he can dispose of all the Kingdoms of the World because he does it not in vertue of a Temporal power but by a spiritual working and after an indirect manner Hang the manner how he does it if he can do it What has the World to do with these mannerly tricks A King is well holp up who after he is dispossest comes to understand that this came about after another fashion and in another manner then he was aware of Well! but are you for the Canonists or against them why truly I am for them and I am not for them And our Question What must be said to that Must we obey our King or the Pope This is what the world looks after Why according to one half of the resolution which says Princes are supream in Temporals and have in them no Superiour we must obey our King according to the other half which saies a power vvhich is only Spiritual can dispose of Temporals too we must obey the Pope But how must I do with this Licet and non Licet must I cut my self in two and list a Leg and an Arm under one a Thumb and a Shoulder under the other and if I happen to meet in the battle fight my King-self against my Pope-self Because this is something difficult and they are men of reason I imagine they would condescend a little in this point and let me remain entire As long as the answer is divided 't is well enough But then I must chuse the right half That 's it I would be at Pray tell me then must whole I take the Spiritual or the Temporal half Why the truth is you must take the Spiritual half Parasits and Flatterers may tell you otherwise But this is the truth of the story Why then to what purpose all this illusion of my Princes Soveraignty and Independency when after all he is neither Soveraign nor Independent To what purpose this bustle against the Canonists only to say the same thing at last but with more ado Could you not have plainly told me at first what I must trust to and spared the trapan of so many useless disguises The result of all your Spirituals and Indirects and good of Souls and whatever else is in short I must obey the Pope against my Prince only I must in spight of all sence believe my Prince is a true and Soveraign King and has no Superiour in Temporals and the Pope no power but Spiritual and so besides a Traytor and a Rebel become sensless and a block into the bargain Here 's your fine opinion of which you make such a Mystery and are so shy to discover your thoughts Come come leave dodging and deal above-board Answer me these things and shew me that Bellarmin speaks sence and sence not injurious to Government and the safety of Princes or disclaim him plainly as you have the Canonists 'T is at your choice to do what you will but do one and that effectually or take notice I tell you I will believe for the future your Church is a wicked Church absolutely inconsistent with Civil Government and has not one sound member in her no not one Put me not off with formalities and think to scape with telling me this doctrine belongs not to your Church as a Church and that only the Material men hold it 'T is the material men I only care for at present We converse not with your formal Church vve hear and see and deal with Material men These are they can do us good or harm and 't is but reason we should know vvhat to expect from them Formalities are ayry things no rope can catch them but Material men you know maye be suspended and vvhen they are found guilty and have no hopes of reprieve but in the innocence of their formalities I doubt it goes hard vvith them In two vvords clear your selves from an imputation which you have brought upon your selves or confess you cannot be cleer'd and remember that silence is a confession and so I shall take it as all Justice in the world does and believe it vvas not the wickedness