the which before they fledde but of this by ioyning bothe the swordes together the spirituall and the temporall the rather to vanquishe and discomfite the enemie But nowe if it were so that emongest the rest the bishop of Rome had bene comprehended in this epistle yeat the calling of him brother or felowe in the ministerie is no cause to conclude as you doe against his auctoritie For neither doe I nowe nor euer hathe anie Catholike hetherto so defended or mainteined the popes supremacy that it hathe not bene allwaies acknowledged that bothe he and other bishoppes be the ministres of one common maister allthough that maister haue made him the ruler of his felowes and ouerseer of his brethren Yea the popes them selues haue euer vsed to call the other bishoppes their brethern and felowe bishoppes not renouncing therby the auctoritie of their seate What marueile is it therfore if the bisshoppes of the East had called the pope emongest the other to whome they wrote brother and felowe in the ministerie by the which name he calleth him selfe it can not be denied Nowe where M. Dorman speaketh of persecution as he dyd Nowell Fo. 13. a. 13 alittle before of oure moste cruell practise I referre it to the iudgement of all the worlde whether the papistes or we be more cruell persecutours and wheather haue suffred more persecution they or we If they be more cruell persecutours that lacking power Dorman shewe notwithstanding more crueltie in wordes then other doe in deedes if their crueltie be greater who punishe beside and against lawe then theirs who folowe lawe if it be no crueltie at all to punishe a fewe to saue the nombre by terrour of lighter paines to vse the wordes of S. Austen to â—ib de vinit eccl cap. 17. the Donatistes complaining of the Catholikes as you doe nowe to preserue from greater euills then is the matter iudged allreadie in all vpright iudgement then nedeth there no furder processe As for the lenitie by the which you woulde commende youre selues to the worlde youre charitable sermones made aswell before the Quenes moste excellent maiestie at the courte as before the nobles and other honorable of the Realme at the Crosse in the which yow haue consumed all youre eloquence to prouoke oure moste gratiouse soueraigne to imbrue her chaste and vnspotted handes with the innocent bloude of true Catholikes hathe long since made that wel knowen to the worlde So that I maye nowe truly saye to yow as did S. Austen to certeine heretikes in his time bragging of their lenitie towardes the catholikes as you doe of youres Nulla bestia si Epist. 48. neminem vulneret propterea mansueta dicitur quia dentes vngues non habet Seuire vos nolle dicitis ego non posse arbitror No beaste if he wounde no man is therfore called tame because he lacketh teethe and nailes you saye you will vse no crueltie I thinke yow can not Is not this youre verie case M. Nowell See you not a perfect pattern of youre pitie a copy of youre dissembled and countrefeite kindenesse O were youre murdering mouthes by oure most gratiouse Souereignes commaundement vnmoosseled which god for her sake forbid youre bloud thirsty handes at libertie how woulde these tame beastes bestirre them You saye that I go about to burthen you with enuie of churches either pulled downe or altered to other vses and of altars Nowell a. 12. destroied muche like as the rebelles did burthen king Henry the eight c. How the rebelles burdened king Henry or whether Dorman they burdened him at all or no as you saye they did I will not entremedle my selfe therein Of this I am suer that you be burdened of me none otherwise then S. Hierome burdened the Hunnes and wandalles being infected Epist ad HeliodoruÌ„ with Arrius heresie when he wrote of them after this sorte The churches be ouerthrowen at the altars be horses stabled and a litle after Howe manye monasteries be their taken And againe none otherwise then Optatus the bishop of Lib. 6. coÌ„â—â—â— Donatist Mileuite in Afrike burdened the Donatistes there doing the like when he tolde them that there coulde be no greater sacrilege then to breake shaue and remoue cleane away the altars off God on the whicht bothe they them selues some tymes had offred and the prayers off the people and membres off Christ were caried As for youre excuse that you make why Abbayes were ouerthrowen in oure countrye it is not trulie muche pertinent to oure purpose in this place For had it bene all true whereof the greatest parte was moste certeinely false that you sclaunderously and falsely laied to the charges of religiouse men emongest whome as there were manie offendours euen those that haue bene since in England greate pillers and in youre newe churche chiefe fauourers of youre newe religion so were there manie innocent and good who ceassed not daie and night to lament the disordred life of those other their brethren to praie most earnestly to almighty god for their sinnes and the sinnes of the people yeat was this no cause sufficient to turne vp the churches to ouerthrowe the altars Which you youre selfe also perceiuing and knowing that aswell in king Henries time those good fathers of the Chartrehouse as in the late reigne of Quene Marie bothe they in Shene the moÌ„ckes of westminstre the Franciscanes of Grenewich the preachers of S. Bartilmewes the nonnes of Sion and Dertford liued euery ordre so honestlie in all vertue and godlines according to their rule that manie wer edified by their good examples none offeÌ„did by their euil yow flee to an other shifte against the fundations off suche religiouse houses forsothe Which because you say were laied vpoÌ„ prayer for the redemption Nowell fol. 13. 2. 23. of the soules of their founders and their progenitours soules c. Were so vnsuer and weake or rather wicked that they coulde no longre beare suche huge superstructions and buildinges as were laied vpon them Well suche fundations maye be well counted weake Dorman or rather wicked by wicked Aerius who was condeÌ„ned for Aug. lib. de haeresib haer 53. lib. 3. haere 75. the like heresie as witnesse bothe S. Austen and Ephiphanius aboue 12. hundred yeares since But to all good Christian men they seme and euer haue done proufitable and meritoriouse as to him that will take the paines to reade the boke of late learnedly written of purgatorye it shall I doubt not euideÌ„tly appeare Beside that by this meanes our colleages at home in the vniuersities yea your cathedrall churche and Deanery it selfe M. Nowell might be in some daunger to be ouerthrowen if you fal to suche scanning of their first fundations Here you compell me to entre with you into a disputation about altars And for the iustifieng of your communion Fol. 14. b. Altars Nowell 1. Cor. 10. table you alleage first that oure sauiour instituted the sacrament at a
leane vnto so notable a lie The first exception against this testimonie of Leo is this Nowell b. 13. No man maie be witnesse in his owne cause nor iudge Therefore Leo his testimonie brought furthe for the preeminence of his own See is not to be admitted c. This exception of youres yow proue by reason by scripture by lawe First to answere youre reason if reason theire maie be in Dorman anie so vncharitable a iudgement I saie it is false that the holiest and best men be lightly partiall in their owne matters He is neither holie nor good much lesse to be accounted amongest the holiest and best that for the bettring off his owne cause will swarue from the truthe Youre testimonie alleaged out of the ghospell is not to the purpose Ioan. 5. For that place proueth not that allwaies the testimonie that a man giueth of himselfe is false but that when a man hath to doe with aduersaries that will not otherwise beleue him as the Phariseis woulde not Christ then he must vse the testimonie of other theÌ„ him selfe Which as Leo in such case you maie be suer did so wheÌ„ the matter was so farre froÌ„ being by anie aduersarie gainesaide that he made his commission B. 25. to the bishop of Thessalonica to be in his steade thorough out Grecia and other countries adioning as he did here what nede had he there to bring anie proufes where there was at all no doubte If yow will saie that I defending the auctoritie of the pope bring Leo against yow which are the aduersaries and that therefore nowe becawse you are against Christes vicair as the Phariseis were against Christe him selfe for so doe yow confesse that you M. Nowell confesseth him selfe to reason against Leo as the phariseis dyd against Christ reason as they did although perhappes yow woulde haue bene angrie with an other that should haue saide so much so I must bring other witnesse then him except I will take the foile To that I answere that you come nowe to late with that exception if it had no other faulte For to answere you who dispute so depely oute of the lawe like one that is not alltogether ignorant therein conclusum est in causa M. Nowell sententia transijt in rem iudicataÌ„ I nede not to expounde these termes vnto you who haue the marow of the glose euen at youre fingres endes For other men who haue not atteined to such knowledge I saie that seing in Leo his time when he appointed in this epistle the bishop of Thessalonica in his steade thorough out Grecia and other countries adioining in an other place the B. of Orleance or some other thorough out Fraunce Hormisdas bishop of Hispalis to be his vicair in Spaine the churches that theÌ„ were and in to whose power the churches of this time succede excepted nothing against these doinges of his in his owne cause as you surmise but suffered theÌ„ to passe till our time the space of 1100. yeares and odde I answere I saye for replie to youre exception that had this testimonie bene being vrged by the rigour of the lawe insufficient that yeat forasmoche as the churche from that time hetherto accepted it for sufficient you come now to late to propose matter against it To make the matter by example more plaine if my auncestor a hundred yeares past in a contention betwene him and some other aboute a piece of landes woulde vpon trust of the vpright conscience of some neare kinsman of his aduersaries admit him to be a witnesse or iudge in the matter whome he might laufullie repell might I if sentence were giuen against my auncestor by the meanes of this iudge or witnesse come after the 100. yeares and excepte against the witnesse or iudge Leo speaketh not nowe M. Nowell he gaue this testimonie that the giueth 1100. yeares agoe The whole churche iustified his persone then to be bothe holie and blessed It is to late and to muche shame also for yow to starte vp now and saye the contrary Thus muche might be saied if it were true that Leo had bene witnesse or iudge in his own cause But the truthe is it is not his cause it is the cause of Christes church and of the whole ordre of priesthod For he pronouÌ„ceth for that seate vnde vnitas sacerdotalis exorta est froÌ„ whence priestly vnitie Cipr. li. 4. Epis 9. â—libi came Neither is Leo in this place more to be reiected for mainteining the supremacie of Peters seate wherein he theÌ„ sate then are the testimonies of S. CipriaÌ„ mainteining the iurisdiction of his owne bishoprike against stubborne rebelles Shall S. Hieromes auctoritie against deacons who woulde be equall with priestes be of no auctoritie because him selfe was a prieste This is not the meaning M. Nowell of the glose as greate a gloser as you be The glose meaneth that in priuate matters that concerne the pope as he is likewise How the glose brought by M. Nowell is to be vnderstande a priuate maÌ„ he shal not him selfe be iudge but in those thinges which concerne the whole bodie of the church and beloÌ„g to the ordre therof and haue no other iudge in earth it taketh not away the power of being witnesse or iudge Pighius you saye alleaged beside the decree of the pope the councell Nowell fol. 46. a. 1 of Vienna lest anie man might estemethe auctoritie the lesse as proceding from the pope in his owne case And by this yow saye it maye seeme that he thinketh the popes onelie testimonie in his owne cause not to be sufficient Pighius was neuer of that minde that you would haue him seme to be When he spake these wordes he touched Dorman the humour and noted the fashion of heretikes and therfore ex abundanti he cast in the mention of the councell of Vienna which I coulde doe also if that woulde helpe the matter and for Vienna giue yow Calcedon for 300. bringe yow 630. bishoppes that called Leo the kepar of Christes vineyard vniuersal bishop with other termes to that effect I forbare to alleage I confesse so muche in one place off a 28. my boke the notable testimonies of Clemens Anacletus Euaristus Alexander Xistus Telesphorus Pius Victor Fabianus and suche other onely because the gainesaiers might happelie haue excepted against them that because they were bishoppes of Rome they were not in that cause which was there owne indifferent witnesses How saye you M. Nowell what gather you hereof That you might laufullye take exception to them as not indifferent If you gather so you wrangle with me My wordes that went before in whiche to iustifie their persones and to shewe how vnlaufullie you shoulde doe it I called them martirs and in the whole course of their liues verie apostles doe witnesse with me the contrarie Yeat saide I that you might doe it de facto not de iure as you maie kill a man in dede but
or perhappes the solemne cuppe councell in Martin Luthers house at Wittemberg as I am to defend the couÌ„cel of Nice Ephesus or LateranuÌ„ Well M. Nowell neither shall you at this tyme bring furthe youre Confession of Augspurg or the solemne conclusion agreed vpon at Martin Luthers house nor I wil alleage Howe S. AusteÌ„ renounced the auctoritie of the Nicene councell either the councell of Nice Ephesus or Lateranum but the scriptures c. then I saie you coulde proue hereby that I who trusting vppon the goodnesse of the cause quit for the tyme the alleaging of the councelles were of the minde that the auctoritye of the councelles made nothing for the decision of controuersies And that this was the meaning of S. Augustine to relinquishe onelye for that present tyme the auctoritie of the councell off Nice that the heretike might forsake his schismaticall councell not that he estemed either the councell of Nice or anie other laufull generall councell so lightly as yow suppose bothe this aduerbe nunc nowe whose nature is to limite and restreine whiche yowe fearing lest it woulde marre all the marcket and perceiuing that it woulde be harde to deceiue the learnedersorte with this place alleaged trulie in A lie by omission 65. the latine but left owt in the englishe thinking that youre parte shoulde be well enough plaied if yowe were able to blinde the ignorant and vnlearned bothe dothe this I saie argue the meaning of S. Austen to be as I saie and not as yow pretende and also that he dothe euerie where against the Donatistes alleage Concilium plaenarium totius orbis the Lib. 1. de baptis contra Donat. cap. 18. Epist 118. ad Ianuar. fo 72. a. 3. S. Austen beelied â—â— Howe the scripture is iudge and howe it is not iudge of aâ— controuersies full councell of all the world and saieth of councelles quorum est in ecclesia saluberima auctoritas whose auctoritie is in the churche moste wholesome It is not to be forgotten in this place that where S. Austen calleth the scripture by the name of a witnes yowe conclude that he calleth the scripture iudge Which if he had done might easelie haue bene answered to be true also when the churche hathe declared what the scripture ment As the lawes of all countries are the iudges of suche controuersies as rise there but not the iudges alone because they be subiecte to wrangling interpretations and therefore requier an other iudge to iudge their meaning But seing S. Austen calleth not the scripture iudge but witnes yowe haue delt vntrulie by concluding more vpon his wordes then is in them To the places brought here by yowe owt of Chrisostome Fol. 72. â— â–ª I answere that we saie as muche in the commendation of holie scripture as he doeth For none of those places make holie scripture the onelie sufficient triall of all controuersies Therefore where as they saie we muste beleue scripture rather then men that if we woulde beleue them we shoulde fall in to no errours we graunte it to be true in scripture as it is deliuered by the fathers and expounded by the church For the first place of S. Hierom he there reiected an allegation of vncerteine auctoritie commonly called ApocriphuÌ„ about the person of that Zachary which was slaine betwene Matth. 23. the teÌ„ple and the altar which because he knewe was not receiued by vniuersall tradition there remained no other grounde of prouing it but by scripture where sith it was not he might well saie it is as easely contemned as proued M. Nowelles ignorance in the writâ—nges off the fathers The laste place non adferamus stateras dolosas c. is not S. Hieromes as yow trusting ouer much Gratianus to whom belike yow haue recourse for youre auctorities owt of the doctours to auoide either furder paine either elles because yow delight not muche in suche companie reporte it here Lib. 2. de baptis cap. 6. to be It is taken owt of S. Austin M. Nowell a token that manie a man speaketh to vse the olde Englishe prouerbe of Robin hood that neuer shot in his bow and maketh nothing against me who wishe you would in dede way thinges with lesse deceitefull waightes of scripture theÌ„ you doe The places here noted owt of S. Austen and Chrisostom B. 14. touching the conference of one place of scripture with an other of the darcke and obscure with the clere and light are brought to proue conference to be good and proffitable which we denie not But that which we denie and therfore yow shoulde haue proued neither those places nor anie other that yow haue alleaged doe proue First that allwaies suche conference can assure vs of the true meaning of the scripture secondarily that in this conferring of places there is no difficultie varietie or vncerteintie which we affirme and proue to be because to one man to the Lutheran it semeth that hoc est corpus meum this is my bodie and verbum caro factum est the word is made flesh are places of like phrase and speache to yow M. Nowell it semeth that Ego sum vitis vera I am a true vyne is like to this This is my bodie Why yow will saie I haue proued this by Chrisostome who saieth Ad ipsum diuinae scripturae scopum accedamus quae Chrisost in 2. cap. Gen. Homil 13. seipsam interpretatur and againe Sacra scriptura seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Let vs come to the marcke of the holie scripture whiche expoundeth it selfe The holie scripture expouÌ„deth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre I knowe that these be Chrisostomes wordes I knowe that they make nothing for your purpose I knowe and be it knowen to all men that they are most shamefully by yowe abused and mangled For whereas Chrisostome confuting the errour of those that grounding them selues vpon this place of Genesis inspirauit in faciem eius Gen. 2. spiraculum vitae and he breathed vpon his face the breathe of life mainteined that the soule of man was off the same essence withe God where I saie Chrisostome specially in this pointe saieth that the scripture expoundeth it selfe you make him generally to saye that the scripture dothe so in all doubtes The whiche to persuade the better whereas the laste of those two sentences of Chrisostome by yowe alleaged hathe thus quamuis sacra scriptura quum nos tale Chrisostomes wordes mangled by M. Nowell quiddam docere vult seipsam exponit auditorem errare non sinit Allthough the holye scripture when it wyll teache vs anye suche thinge expoundeth it selfe and suffereth not the hearer to erre yowe mangling the sentence cutt awaie the middle wordes quum nos tale quiddam docere vult when it will teache vs anie such thing lest by those wordes the reader might vnderstande that Chrisostome gaue there no general rule but spake onely of that special pointe
or some other like vnto it If this were not youre meaning M. Nowell why cut you of the worde quaÌ„uis at the beginning and these other in the middest Tell vs some other cause if you can Next after these auctorities you alleage a treatie of one fo 73. a. Borowed of the coÌ„fession of wittenberge Tit. de Eccles that you set furth Rhetorically calling him an auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time taken for him to proue that the churche must be tried by the scriptures To this place I answere that whether it be Chrisostomes owne worcke from whence it is taken or no this is a thing moste certeine that it is to be warily readen as the boke which hath thrust into it if it be Chrisostomes owne or anie other catholike mannes by some false Arrian heretike manie poisoned and perniciouse sentences for the maintenaunce of the Arrians heresie Emongest other to note to you one or two euen in the. 48. homilie whiche is the verie nexte before this that you alleage here the Catholikes for mainteining the equalitie of Christe with God the father are nombred emongest heretikes and in the. 45. they are called heretikes that holde that the blessed trinitie is equall of like substance and auctoritie And therefore in suche places as this auctor who so euer it be dissenteth from the common faithe of Christes churche we haue iust cause to suspect that there this heretike who hath it appeareth ouerronne the whole hath dipped in his fingres and therefore that we reiect As in this place it is likely that he thought to make a waie for his heresies by chalenging to be tried by the scripture onelie the common request of the Arrian heretikes because the worde they saide Homousion was not to be founde in the scriptures But nowe if these wordes were Chrisostomes owne and not put in by the heretike yeat foloweth it not that because the churche is to be tried by the scriptures onelie that therefore all other questions maie be decided by the same alone For God whose wisedome diuised whose holie spirite brethed whose finger wrote the scriptures as for heretikes that coÌ„temne the auctoritie of the churche he hath so disposed them as Tertullian writeth that they might ministre them Lib. de praescript aduers haeres matter so hathe he againe for them that shal be content humblie to rest in the lappe of the same made that matter by the scriptures so clere that a catholike man maie be bolde to prouoke an heretike yea all the heretikes in the worlde to dispute by scripture onelie of that question whiche and where is the true churche And suerlie so was it expedient that it shoulde be that the churche whiche shoulde iudge of the true sense and meaning of the scriptures shoulde by the scriptures be so euidentlie proued that about that their might be no wrangling As it is not to be merueiled therefore if anie catholike man giue councell to proue the church by the scriptures the scriptures speaking of the churche as hath S. Austen more plainelie then they â—narrat in psal 30 doe of Christe him selfe and therto being writteÌ„ so euideÌ„tly that the textes making for the trial therof nede no interpretatioÌ„ Lib. de vnitate ecdes ca. 16 so can you not reason that all other controuersies in semblable wise must be tried by the scripture because the scripture is more ambiguouse in other maters and because the church is proued so plainelie that it might afterwarde hauing the continuall assistence of Goddes holie spirite and being the piller of truthe assuer vs being in doubte of the true meaning of scripture And thus muche for answere to your long place alleaged to so little purpose out of that auncient auctor printed withe Chrisostome and of long time takeÌ„ for him By whose auctoritie lest the worekes of S. Clement making so muche against youre newe A sleight of M. nowells doctrine might get anie credite being here alleaged by this auncient auctor printed with Chrisostome and of long time taken for him you toke youre pen in to youre hande and cut that sentence clene awaie Hauing nowe spent youre store of testimonies brought fo 74. b. 9 by you to proue that the scripture alone ought to be the iudge of all controuersies you returne to youre olde plea so often auouched and neuer proued that we be the phariseis and therfore can not be the true churche of god that you alleage scriptures against vs as the Apostles did against the phariseis of whom and vs you saye furder as foloweth And I am suer that the high prieste withe his Iuishe churche Nowell b. 29. was able to saye as muche for the ordinarie succession of the highe priestes his predecessours euen from Aaron vntill his time for antiquitie for consent and for vniuersality against Christe and his Apostles so fewe in comparison and as it semed latelye start vp as yowe are able to saye for youre churche or againste vs. But yeat we doe thinke that the worde of God as it was alleaged by Christe and hys Apostles againste the saide high prieste and his churche so maye it and ought it allso to be alleaged by vs againste youre highe prieste and youre churche cet What so euer the Phariseis had to saye againste the Apostles Dorman for them selues they had not this to saye whiche we haue againste you that theire churche was by the testimonies of the Scriptures promised to continue for euer The Apostles proued to them the contrary oute of the scriptures if you can doe the lyke to vs and shewe by euident scriptures that the churche of Christe shoulde for the space of fiftene hundred or nine hundred yeares either be ouerthrowen and at the length restored by a newe Messias we renounce the benefite off succession we giue ouer antiquitie consent vniuersalitye and what so euer elles Thus alleaged the Apostles the worde of God against the Phariseis Thus must you alleage it against vs if you will alleage it at all And whether you be so or no the true church of god seing it Nowell fol. 75. a. 23. is in question and a greater doubte and controuersie emongest men I am suer then can be aboute the sense of anye place off the scripture yow shall neuer be hable to make anie exception to the scripture as no competent iudge in controuersies but we shall be able ten tymes more to make exception to youre Pope and his churche as no indifferent nor meete iudge We make no exception nor euer did againste the scripture Dorman as of it selfe an incompetent iudge to determine controuersies This we saye that the frowardenes of men addicted to mainteine their once receiued opinions maketh that the scripture is not alone sufficient to decide the same till the church haue giuen sentence betwene those that shall thus contende which is the true meaning of the scripture How the scripture decideth controuet
present when he saide Qui minor est Lucae 9. inter vos omnes hic maior est He that is the leaste emongeste you all is the greatest Belike you woulde haue asked hym how one could be the greater and the lesse But do you not youre selfe confesse that euerye bishop is the heade of hys diocesse And howe then M. Nowell doth that agree I vse youre owne wordes with the humble ecclesiastical ministery Is your heade the bishop a headye seruant and a seruile heade Kinges and Princes are they not the heades of the people whome they gouerne and yeat in that verie respecte that they be heades ministres notwithstanding as S. Paule witnesseth Rom. 13. and seruantes M. Dorman harpeth to muche vpon one string oute of tune Nowell b. 16. for his purpose I meane the example off the Iuish high prieste cet Who twangeth moste vppon one string that let the learned Dorman reader iudge Once this is suer that the string that you shoulde strike here you touche not so muche as once For I bringe not in this example of the high prieste off the Iues at this tyme as because I once did you dreame that I doe still to proue that there ought to be one onelye heade in Christes churche as there was emongest the Iues but to detecte the vanitie of this reason of youres Christe is heade of the churche and able to rule the same him selfe alone ergo there nedeth no other To this answered I so was M. Nowell dissembleth my reasō and twāgeth vpō a false string he being God heade of the Iuish Synagoge also and as wel hable to rule the same without anye helpe or meanes as he is nowe to rule his churche Yeat was his pleasure to appointe a highe prieste c. And therefore that ought to be no reason to persuade vs that he dothe not or maye not do the lyke nowe To this because yow were not hable to replye you dissembled my meaning as a little before in this verye place you doe when you saye that my examples make rather against me then with me The whiche practise you vse also hereafter as in place shal be declared For this matter I haue no more to saye but to aduise you that you take youre harpe into youre hande and twang once vpon the right string In prosecuting the confutation of that naughtie argument fol. 80. a. 24. 1. Reg. 15. of youre Apologie I vse the examples of Saule called in the scripture the heade ouer the tribues of Israel of the husbande called by Paule the heade of his wife off the 1. Cor. 11. Archebishoppe heade ouer the other bishoppes of his prouince and conclude thereupon that as it is no good reason to saye God was heade of the tribues of Israel therefore Saule was not Christe is heade of vs all men and wemen therefore the husbande is not heade of the wife The Arche bishoppe is heade of the other bishoppes of his prouince Therefore the bishoppes be not hedes euen so that the argument of youre Apologie Christe is heade of his churche therfore there is no other head is a faulty argument because if it were good it shoulde exclude also whiche it dothe not the other heades that I named confessed to be true heades in earthe For quae ratio partis ad partem eadem totius ad totum the same proportion that is of the parte to the parte the same is the proportion of the whole to the whole that is if their maie be a heade of one diocesse in earthe which is parte of the whole notwithstanding that God is heade of the whole there is no let by this argument but there maie be an other heade also vnder him ouer the whole And so I proue the reason of the Apologie naught in the whole quia non valet in partibus because it is not good in the partes To this reason of mine you neuer make answere but dissembling it as you did the other before you saie that I bring these examples to proue that there be diuerse seuerall b. 13. heades in earthe vnder Christe So I did in dede But why woulde I proue that To proue that there ought to be one heade ouer the whole Why saye you so for shame M. Nowell Why dissemble you that whiche anye man that hathe his common sense can not but see to be otherwise I bringe it to shewe howe absurde it is for you to graunte that ouer the tribues off Israel there maye be a heade ouer seuerall churches there maye be heades withoute derogation to Christes honour who is the chiefe and yeat you will not graunte so muche to the whole churche for the impediment of that pretended reason because Christe is the heade which letteth not in particuler churches And therfore neither Hosius nor I care whether Saul were head of the tribue of Leui or no this example prouing how euer it were sufficiently our intent whiche is to disproue your folishe reason that because Christ is heade of his church there nedeth no other When Hosius or I alleage this place to gather thereby that there ought to be one head in earth vnder Christ ouer all churches then we will folowe your minde in cōcluding In the meane season we take youre argument that because Christe is the onelie heade ouer the vniuersall churche therefore there nedeth no other generall heade vnder him to be by this example sufficiently confuted as before I shewed Yeat because your desire is that it maie be considered whether when the scripture saieth that Saul was made heade of the tribues of Israēl he were appointed heade ouer the tribue of Leui also that is ouer the cleargie considre it I praie yow and spare not and when yow haue all considered and done yow shall perceiue howe muche this exemption of the cleargie from the auctoritie of king Saul maketh against yow and youre companions that will make kinges to rule the cleargie in causes ecclesiasticall I doubte not but some of youre side that haue more staied heades then yowe and that are lesse passionat will saie that yowe might haue kepte this consideration to youre selfe still And where yow mingle kinges and bishoppes together whose Nowell b. 30. fo 81. a. 1. offices are distinct and vse the examples of the Archebishop off Cauntorbury and the bishop of London what titles so euer your bishoppes when they were in those roumes vsed or abused I am suer they who be nowe in place take it for their chiefe honour to be and to be called also gods ministers in his churche What a worlde is this when protestantes complaine of Dorman mingling kinges and bishoppes together As though the worlde knewe not who confoundeth and iumbleth together these two offices they or we But the faulte is founde with me for reasoning from their offices whiche be distincte Why yow knowe M. Nowell if you haue not forgotten youre logicke that it
learned what so euer they wrote / of other that were before them Thus muche maye be saide to M. Nowell susteining thys paradox to deface vs to the worlde that we are seely translatours because nothing can nowe be newely written for the maintenaunce of the popes supremacy or any other matters whiche we nowe treate of but such as hathe bene allready bothe written and printed many yeares agoe c. The which so strange an opinion / as for his small skyll some simple Ideot maye mainteine / so is it for the persone of M. Nowell / one that beareth some countenaunce of learning / and is in deede in the place and roume of a learned man / alltogether vnsitting And this I doubte not but he him selfe / aswell by the experience of his owne writing of late / as of other of his syde that wright daily / knewe well inough But to muche Rhetorike made him playe the foole / and while he folowed to neare the preceptes of his arte / he straied to far from the rules of all good reason For allthough it be tricke of Rhetorike / to labour to bring the aduersarie in the verie entry in to the matter / out of credite withe the reader or hearer yeat is it a pointe of reason to forsee and prouide withall / that the meanes whiche a man vseth / be not suche as maie be returned against him selfe Well this being nowe in the hearing of M. Nowell who peeped bylike To the. 2. there while in at the key hole concluded emongest the catholikes in this solemne conference of theirs / that some thing shoulde be set furthe in Englishe / the nexte deuise was of the maner of publishing it Which was / if the Reporter lye not that because they mistrusted dest this kinde of writing or rather translating should not appeare worthy to be accompted the earnest doinges of anye learned or wise man they shoulde pretende either their bookes to be written lightely for priuate frindes c. or appoint suche to beare the name as authors of such bookes as were the simplest men for learning and discretion emongest them If malice had not alltogether blinded him / and as it were bereued him of common sense / neuer woulde he haue abused youre eares good Readers / with such vaine toyes as these are For there is none of yow I trust / but that he iudgeth better of the whole nombre oâ— catholikes / then that he can be persuaded to thinke / that there shoulde be emongest them anye so wittelesse / muche lesse that a multitude shoulde agree in conference to thinke / that to wright of a matter either in the same tongue or anye other / whereof an other hathe written before / were a thing not worthy to be accounted the doing of any learned or wise man Whiche if they shoulde thinke / what were it elles but to condemne all the learned writers of so many hundred yeares / of ignorance and lacke of witte / as either being seely translatours or needy borowers Beside this / there is none of yow I trust so simple but that he can easely imagine with him selfe / that it is not likely / that anie Catholike shoulde be so far from all reason / as to feare thys that M. Nowelles fantasy surmiseth / hauing especially in his eye the example of heretikes them selues / who writing daily in the vulgar tongues / are yeat therefore counted of none but fooles in deede / the lesse learned or wise He noteth in the margent M. Doctour Harding and M. Rastell / for pretending their bookes to be written for priuate frindes And why ought they not rather being bothe of them to speake the lest men of no in famouse maners or godlesse consciences to be beleuid / affirming the same in their seuerall prefaces to the Readers / then M. Nowell withe his moste vaine and vnlikely coniectures / being allready infamouse for beelieng that learned man M. Doctour Redman / as to honest / learned / and good men yeat liuing it is notoriously knowen As for vs whome he calleth the simplest emongest the Catholikes for learning and discretion if that be true / so muche haue we the greater cause to rendre thanckes to allmighty God / who hathe preserued free from the infection of their heresies / suche a nombre no worse learned / nor of lesse discretion then we by goddes grace are Who maye when it shall please his wisdome to appointe the time / and to moue the harte of oure prince to call vs home / shewe oure selues worckemen in buylding vp that / which heretikes haue destroyed and pulled downe But I feare me and would it were not so / that euen in this pointe also / M. Nowell hathe made a Rhetoricall lye The nexte thing that he burdeneth vs withall / is common conference I woulde it were true that he laieth to oure charge If we were as To the 3. wise as we shoulde be / it shoulde be true / and we woulde in this pointe imitate our aduersaries But our sauiour hath saide it can not be false Filij huius seculi prudenâ—iores filiâ—s lucis in generatione sua sunt Lucae 16. The children of this worlde be wyser then the children of light / in their generation And so it happeneth vnto vs. But here I praie yowe good readers / marcke how he doubleth and faltreth in this tale of his / that so yow maye the better vnderstande with whome yow deale in this case First he saieth that all oure doinges be but seely translations / the whiche he maketh so easy a matter / that the meanest he saieth emongest vs haue they onlye a little vnderstanding in the latine tongue maye after this sorte loade them withe hauocke of bookes Here / forgetting that euer he spake these wordes he saieth that these bookes haue bene longe elaborated by common conference What shall we saye If this kinde of writing called by him translating M. Nowelles tongue faltreth in his lieng tale be so easy as he maketh it / what nede was there of longe or common conference / whiche thinges be onlye required in matters of greate hardenesse and difficultie What cause of feare of committing the handling of matters of suche weight to a fewe / allthough yonge men year vnderstanding the latine tongue as well as him selfe / then which / lesse knowledge by his owne confession woulde serue to loade them withe hauocke of bookes If this be true / what neded M. D. Harding or M. Rastell either / to vse the aduise of their learned frindes / to haue any suruey made by others of their doinges / seing it is well knowen / that as they are bothe hable to translate out of latine bookes before written in to theirs made in Englishe so they woulde for their wisdomes translate out of suche beside Pighius / Gropperus / Hosius / whome in this place he nameth as being neuer yeat by heretike answered / haue by the consent of
Rome as it is manifest by these wordes as though the truthe coulde not saile after them c seing that this whole epistle was chiefely written to Cornelius to exhorte him to giue no credite to those schismatikes as by this amongest other may appeare that he saith to Cornelius Non attendas numerum c. Cōsider not their nombre seing that the wordes rei certae probatione conuincere to ouercome by euident proufe againe Ita enim scelera festinant quasi contra innocentiam festinatione praeualeant for so do wicked deedes hasten as though they shoulde by haste preuaile against innocency be wordes of iudgement for where be prouffes offred where doe men preuaile in sutes but in iudgement finallie seing men that thinke them selues wronged neuer vse to complaine but to such as they are persuaded haue auctorite to helpe them of al these thinges it foloweth that in Africa where S. Cypriā gouerned the Pope was taken to be no foriner Nowe from Africa to Fraunce Of Arles a towne in Fraunce was bishop in S. Cyprians Fraunce time one Martianus a folower and professour of the heresie of Nouatus Of him S. Cyprian writeth to Stephanus the Pope in this wise Dirigantur in prouinciam ad plebem Lib. 3. epist 13. Arelate consistentem a te literae quibus abstento Martiano alius in locum eius substituatur grex Christi qui in hodiernum ab illo dissipatus vulneratus contemnitur colligatur that is to saye Addresse youre lettres to the prouince and people of Arles by the which Martianus being excommunicate an other maie be put in his place and the flocke of Christe which to this daye being scattred and wounded is contemned may be gathered together Now cōsidre I pray yow that haue learning and wisdome to iudge whether it be likely that S. Cyprian if he had taken the B. of Rome to be a forriner in other countries woulde haue euer willed him to haue sent suche lettres as whereby he shoulde excōmunicate and depriue of his bishoprike a stubborne or wilful heretike when with as good right as M Nowell dother here the heretike bishop might haue bidden him go shake his eares foreine vsurper as he was and meddle in his owne diocesse with excommunicating depriuing and placing of his owne subiectes and let Arles in Fraunce where he had nothing to doe alone Considre whether these wordes and the flocke of Christe scattred c. maye be gathered together doe not argue as muche as that when peculier pastours doe not their duties recourse ought to be had to the bishop of Rome the heade and chiefe shepherd of all Finally Let M. Nowell considre whether he would him selfe hauing that opinion that the B. of Orleance for example in Fraunce were as he is a forriner in England write vnto him to sende his lettres to the citie and people of London to excommunicate and depriue M. Grindal because he is an heretike If he woulde not as that is to be iudged trulie he shoulde doe S. Cyprian wrong to make men beleue that he woulde playe suche a foolishe parte as he woulde not him selfe It foloweth therfore that in Fraunce by the iudgment of S. Cyprian the B. off Rome was taken for no foriner Spaine Of Spaine whether there the B. of Rome were a foriner let the restoring of Basilides by Stephanus the Pope to his bishoprike be a witnesse Against which sentence when S. Cyprian with the other bishoppes of Africa gathered to gather defendid Sabinus the newe made bishop they had no other thing to obiect but that Basilides the heretike had Cyprian Lib. 1. Epist 4. deceiued Steuin the bishop of Rome longè positum rei gestae ac veritatis ignarum dwelling far of and being ignorant of the case and truthe by wrong information If Steuin the Pope had bene taken by S. Cyprian to be a forriner in Spaine woulde he not rather haue taken against his sentence that peremptory exception then haue vsed that which confirmeth his auctoritie in Spaine For seing the sentence was vniust for no other cause but because the suggestion was vntrue it foloweth that if it had bene true the sentence had bene good and the iudge not forreine but laufull Otherwise shoulde S. Cyprian neuer haue saide Neque enim tam culpandus est ille cui negligēter obreptū quám hic execrandus qui fraudulenter obrepsit For he is not so muche to be blamed that was stollen vpon by negligence as he is to be abhorred that guilefully did steale vpon him But he shoulde contrary wise haue saide rather He is not so much to be blamed that to helpe his own matter tolde a false tale as he is to be abhorred that would presume being a forriner to meddle in strange countries where he had nothing to doe But S. Cyprian saide not so and therefore vppon this place and also the vertue and holines of Steuin considered who dieng after for Christes faithe a blessed and constant martyr woulde not it is like doe willingly suche wrong as to inuade an other mannes iurisdiction I maye be bolde to conclude that as in Africa and Fraunce so in Spaine also the B. of Rome was by S ▪ Cyprian taken for no foriner To come nowe to S. Basil Let his epistle written to Epist. 52. How the Pope was estemed of S. Basill Athanasius wherein he sheweth his aduise to be that the bishop of Rome be written vnto to sende his legates in to the Easte where they were to condemne the false councell of Ariminū be a sufficient testimony whether at that time his power were coūted forrain or vsurped For if they had iudged his auctoritie there to be none neuer woulde they haue vsed this word vt ipse auctoritatem rei conciliet that he may get auctoritie to the matter or deuised betwene thē selues to haue suche men sent frō Rome as might be meete to gouerne and admonishe those that shoulde be founde frowarde and peruerse emongest them to vndoe and ouerthrow the actes of the heretical councell holden at Ariminum before If S. Basile had taken the bishop of Rome for a foriner neuer woulde he haue sent to Rome for visitours Epist 57. to be sent from Italy to visite thē in the Easte parte of the worlde Finally if the B. of Rome had bene a foriner neuer durst he haue bene so bolde as to haue sent to Caesaria so farre from Rome his legates Lucifer and Eusebius to appease the strife that was there betwene S. Basil and Eusebius Grego Nazianz in Monodia By this that hath bene alleaged yowe haue hearde M. Nowel inough and more perhappes then you woulde toe to showe that S. Cyprian and S. Basile toke not the B. of Rome his auctoritie for forreine or vsurped So that I maie nowe be bolde to conclude that this first answere of youres being proued to be false there is no let in that but that my simple collection as you
iniuriously without auctoritie of speciall commission As for youre promise that yow make in place conuenient fol. 11. b. to bring good proufe that the B. of Rome hath wickedly exacted most vnlaufull othes both of subiectes and of princes c. when you doe so yow shall heare what I will answere in the meane season I count it but an ordinary brag Of the place of S. Basile epist 70. that it was trulye applied to the heretikes of oure time cae The. 5. Chapter M. Nowell woulde induce the reader to thinke that this place of S. Basile shoulde be brought by me to persuade that he and his companions were Arrians And therfore purging him self and his mates of this crime he concludeth thus Wherfore his sainges in that Epistle apperteine nothing to Nowell fol. 12. b. 18 vs who are nothing guiltie of those crimes and heresies but they are brought in by dreaming M. Dorman without anie cause and beside all purpose What nede this affected ignorance M. Nowell Yow Dorman knowe well inough that I neuer charged you with the Arrian heresie But thus it pleaseth yow to handle me as though yow might by this meanes bringe me in to an euill conceite with the reader by persuading that I alleage no place to the purpose The Arrians yow wote well for it is a thing incident to heresies had beside their errours in doctrine manie foule deformities in maners Now what a newe kinde of reason is this I praie yow that yow vse I am not like Dauus or Syrus in one or two properties that they haue Ergo in no propertie at all Doe you agree with the Arrians in no pointe of their maners because yow beleue you saye well concerning the doctrine of the Trinitie If you beleue well God continue you therein at the least some of your pewe felowes pretēding once as good affection therto as you do nowe haue come so farre that they not only haue blasphemed it in open sermons but protested See Staphylus in Englishe fol. 113. a. also to be readier to returne to their Cloisters then to beleue thereoff as the catholike churche dothe But let that be their faulte I saye not here that you be yeat come so farre which notwithstanding youre conclusion that you infer wherefore his sainges in that epistle apperteigne b. 18. nothing to vs is false For you ouerthrowe churches you pull downe altars you contemne the traditions of the fathers the diligent obseruation whereof S. Basile saieth in this place was condemned by the Arrians as a greate faulte beside other thinges as maie to them that reade the histories more plainely appeare So that when you called me dreaming for bringing this as not to the purpose you were belike youre selfe nodding Yow aske why these bisshoppes of the Easte whose epistle Nowell b. 25. I alleaged here wrote not to the pope as head of all the church but indifferently to all the bishoppes of Fraunce and Italy without any mention of the B. of Rome at all whereoff yow gather a folishe fonde coniecture and of that that S. Basile placed the bishoppes off Fraunce before the Italian bisshoppes which I you saie craftely dissembled that the B. of Rome shoulde not be head of the churche Trulye M. Nowell I neuer brought it to proue the bisshop of Romes supremacie I brought it to proue that the face of oure time was not muche vnlike to that of the Arrians and to that it is not impertinent For youre demaunde I aske you againe what if he wrote to the pope speciall lettres for his aide in these difficultyes And if he did how that should not make greately for his supremacie to whome he woulde not write as to a common bishop emongest other but seuerally to him selfe alone as being the head of his other brethern Trulye there is an epistle of his not many before this written by him to Athanasius wherein conferring with him about the withstanding of the Arrians heresie he telleth him that his counsell is that they sende lettres to the B. of Rome that he may considre the matter and Epist 52. giue his sentence that bicause it woulde be verye harde to haue first a common councell called and then so to sende from thence he him selfe chosing mete men for the purpose suche as shoulde aswell be hable to beare out the paines of the iourney as for their gentlenes and sinceritie off manners to warne and reproue suche peruerse men as troubled them should giue auctoritie to the matter c. Why might not this epistle M. Nowell be touching the same matter whereof he wrote to the bishoppes of Fraunce and Italie why might it not be that knowing the honour of that see of Rome to be so greate as it is he woulde by no meanes wright vnto the bishop thereof alone but ioyntly together with bishop Athanasius whose fame he knewe to be in the churche suche that he could aske no reasonable petition whiche shoulde not be graunted or what can you saye why the epistle written to Meletius that they two shoulde sende to Rome for visitours to visite their countrie whiche was in the Easte might not be concerning Epist 57. this matter How euer it be these two places argue that the omitting of the B. of Rome his name here was not as you suppose for contempte of his auctoritie And thus is this fonde coniecture of youres showed to be vaine and of no force Now for dissembling as you saie the ordre of the bishoppes named in the epistle truly you shewe youre selfe to be made euen of the paringes of malice who iudge so maliciously where no cause is For to what purpose shoulde I conceale that which no man coulde suspect that anie woulde euer haue bene so foolishe as to haue brought for an argument against the popes supremacy It foloweth S. Basile with the other bishoppes of the Easte Nowell fol. 13. a. 3. called the bishoppes alltogether brethern and felowes in the ministerie which they would neuer haue done had they had this opinion of his supremacy that M. Dorman and other papistes do nowe defende and maintaine But in the saide 70. epistle the saide bishops of the East which do not once speake of the pope do pray the Frenche and Italian bisshoppes to make humble sute to the Emperoure that he by his auctoritie woulde represse their ennemies the Arrians and relieue their miseries which maketh rather for the Emperours supremacy in the churche then for the bishoppes of Rome I tolde you a litle before of S. Basile his counsell to Dorman Athanasius to sende to the bishop of Rome for helpe against Epist. 52. the Arrians Wherby as it appeareth to be more then probable that these latter lettres were written to the other bishoppes of Italie and fraunce only not to the pope so is it euident also that the mention of the emperour and silence of the pope came not of lacke of acknowledging his auctoritie to
miserably shaken notwithstāding the labour of the chiefe prelates of euery prouince Now to come to princes and tēporall gouernours if they haue as many seueral or contrary lawes as their be seuerall countries or nations cōcerning the keping of their people in ciuile ordre and peace what breache off vnitie What hurte What disordre in the worlde will folowe hereof I praye you So that to haue made this reason of youres probable you shoulde thus haue reasoned As in the whole worlde there is no disordre because seuerall princes haue seuerall and contrary lawes so in the churche will there be also none if diuerse bishoppes teache diuerse and contrary faithes But as no man is so blinde but he seeth the falsehode of this comparison so is no man I truste so voide of wit but that he seeth this to be as true as that which you made before Thus by reason we finde that schismes can not be appeased without one heade in the churche to whome the greater causes ought to be referred whome the rest ought to credite and obeye To the which heade because he is by Christes owne mouthe so priuileaged in Peters faithe that as he neuer yeat deliuered to the churche any erroniouse doctrine to be beleued but hathe allwaies continued the faith receiued from the Apostles so are we suer that he neuer shall we ought and maye in matters of faithe giue full and assured credite As by S. Austen we be counceled who to this purpose bringeth this saing of the ghospell Quae dicunt Epist 165 Matth. 23. facite c. Doe what they bidde you doe and addeth for the reason that in so doing oure faithe being moste certaine as being grounded not vpon man but vpon goddes promise can neuer be scattred by the tempest of anie schisme This being most true we maie boldely conclude that this state of Monarchie that is of gouerning the churche by one heade as it is moste necessarie so because we are suer that this one heade can not giue wrong iudgement in matters of faithe it is of all other for the churche the moste conuenient as being the verie best For in this pointe doe all men agree euen the moste aduersaries to this state that if one Monarche were suer allwaies to gouerne well that then that state off gouernement were to be preferred before all other To all this that hathe bene saide maye be added that iff you will nedes haue the seuerall diocesses and churches off euerie bishoprike to be like seueral kingdomes then as there is no only kingdome in earthe so by you it shoulde folowe that there is no one only churche in earthe Or if it may be enough for the church in earthe to be one body because Christe in heauen is the one heade thereof why maie not then the kingdomes of the earthe be in earthe one because Christe in heauen is the king of them also This being not I thinke vnknowen vnto you howe vneuen this comparison of youres was made yow will nowe leauing youre reason trie the matter by auctoritie S. Cyprian yow saie dothe most plainely teache that Nowell fo 32. a. 30 it is right and reason that seuerall bishoppes haue the gouernement of seuerall diocesses euen for the same cause for the which I yow saye doe vntruly alleage the necessitie of one heade To the place of S. Cyprian beginning Cum statutum sit Dorman Lib. 1. Epist 3. omnibus nobis c. I answere that it is right and reason that seuerall bishoppes haue the gouernement of seuerall diocesses and that to appease schismes and correcte vices as often as these thinges maie be in suche seueral diocesses commodiously done But that this maie be allwaies perfourmed in particuler bishoprikes and that if it can not recourse maie not be had to higher power that yow shoulde haue proued and that S. Cyprian hathe not Therefore this place maketh not against the auctoritie of one heade But you force it further and saie S. Cyprian affirmeth all suche appellations from a bishop off Nowell one countrie to a bishop of an other countrey to be vnlaufull for that that all bishoppes of all countreys be of like auctoritie and that none but naughtie and desperate men doe thinke the auctoritie of some bishoppes to be inferiour to the auctoritie of other S Cyprian affirmeth not here that all appellations from Dorman one bishop to an other be vnlaufull He saieth that it is reason and hathe bene ordeined emongest them that the subiectes of euery bishop haue their causes hearde there where the faulte was committed And maye not the B. of Rome doe this by sending his legates in all such cases of appeale to the places where the offences were committed there to examine the processe to receiue witnes to determine the matter Beside this if S. Cyprian had in this place vttrely forbidden all maner of appeales to Rome yeat by the phrase of his wordes it appeareth that it was decreed emongest them by a locall statute of their owne for the better maintenaunce of brothrely concorde Which as it extēded no fardre then to that place so if anie of them that once agreed to that ordre refuse at anie time to obey it although it ought to be a barre to him that once gaue his consent to the cōtrary yeat is it none to the pope why he maie not procede in the cause who neuer renounced his right if it be appealed to him The like to this is to be seene in the colleages of oure vniuersities where the founders in most places haue ordeined by their statutes that the membres of such colleages for the better reteining and vpholding of quiet and brotherly agrement emongest them shall propose suche quarelles and contentions as happen emongest them to the seuerall heades of suche colleages This ordre thus taken right and reason woulde haue kepte but if some frowarde body not contented with this will complaine furder to the chauncelor of the vniuersitie or chiefe patron of his colleage he may at their handes haue iustice That this was the case that S. Cyprian speaketh of manie thinges may persuade First that he saieth Cùm statutū sit omnibus nobis wheras an ordre is taken emōgest vs all he giueth vs two thinges to vnderstande that whereas they toke suche an ordre emōgest S. Cyprians place expoundyd thē it was not ordinarily so before but accustomed rather to be otherwise or elles what neded a statute to be made to for bid a thing neuer any otherwise practised Nexte that it was but for thē only for he saieth omnibus nobis emōgest all vs. So that in other places he denieth not yea by these words he cōfesseth rather that it was otherwise And therfore you haue done lewdly and made alowde lie M. Nowel to gather of this place this generall propositiō that all appellations from the bishop of one countrie to the bishop of an other be vnlaufull Whereas this ordre being taken
by and by to be confounded as one in truthe and nature the names whereof be confounded Otherwise because the Apostles are in the gospell called disciples an Apostle and a disciple are all one which is well knowen not to be so Likewise though the termes of prieste and bishop were common yeat the thinges were neuer one in so muche that S. Austen making mention of the heresie of Aerius saieth Dicebat etiam praesbiterum ab episcopo nulla differentia secerni debere He saide Ad quod vult Deum haeres 57. also that a prieste ought to be distinguished from a bishop by no difference But what meane you here M. Nowell to talcke so much of the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes being a matter in this place nothing to oure purpose Or if it were seing it might be saide that euen as the olde canons as I declared before in that equalitie which is in priestehode vsed yeat In the 6. chapitre fol. 33. b. the worde Archipraesbiter chiefe prieste and ordeined suche a dignitie in the churche so there is nothing that letteth why in the equalitie of bishoppes and priestes while no one is more bishop or prieste then an other there maie How one bishop is equall to an other not be degrees notwithstanding of superioritie allthough not in the sacrament of ordres which is common to them all yeat in the execution of that power that is conferred thereby But perhappes you be of the opinion youre selfe that there ought to be no difference betwene a bishop and a prieste and therefore are the gladder to snatche occasion by all meanes direct or indirect to vtter youre minde therin Nowe foloweth vpon this grounde laied that bishoppes and priestes be by the first institution and the lawe of God one youre conclusion whereby you will make it appeare that you haue not without cause made mention of this equalitie of bishoppes and priestes So that all bishoppes which be the successours of the Apostles Nowell b. 24. be also praesbiteri that is to saie elders or priestes Whereof it foloweth also that there is an equalitie emongest all bishoppes by goddes lawe as the equall successours of the Apostles And that this is S. Hieromes minde in that place all learned men who haue reade the saide epistle doe well knowe This was not the minde of S. Hierome but is an idle Dorman phantasy of youre owne The learned knowe and to their iudgement I appeale that his minde was here to compare together the state of a prieste and a bishop in the sacrament of holie ordres common aswell to the one as to the other that so he might refell the better the errour of those who helde that deacons ought to be equall to priestes as appeareth by these wordes of his in the beginning of the epistle In this epistle ad Euagri◠Nam quum Apostolus c. For whereas the Apostle teacheth manifestly that priestes and bishoppes be one what eyleth the seruaūt * He meaneth deacons of widowes and tables arrogātly to extoll him selfe aboue them at whose praiers the bodie and bloud of Christe is made Doth not this example put in the consecrating of the bodie and bloude off Christe the whiche the poorest prieste that is hathe as good auctoritie to doe giuen hym in the sacrament of holie ordres as the pope him selfe declare that S. Hieromes minde was no otherwise to make priestes equall to bishoppes but in the only ordre of priestehode common to bothe Yea but yow will saie that the Apostles were equall in all respectes for if you saie not so you can not conclude absolutely as yow doe that all bishoppes their successours be so equall If yow saie so that is but your bare Lib. 1. contra Iouinianum saing only not by the auctoritie of S. Hierome confirmed but most plainly by the same impugned Who in one place saieth that emongest the twelue there was a heade chosen Peter by name and in an other place that Christ made Peter In cap. Marci 14. Note the cause of appointing one heade the maister of his house THAT VNDER ONE SHEPHERD THERE MAY BE ONE FAITH Which is directly against the equalitie that you build vpō But let it be graunted vnto you that the apostles were equal yeat shall not your cōclusion folow for all that For it is to be considered that in the Apostles there is a double respect which is to be weighed nowe of vs. Either we considre them as they were all Apostles or as they were bishoppes As they were Apostles they How the Apostles were all equall were all equall they had all like power to preache and teache thorough out the whole worlde As they were bishoppes and rulers of particuler churches they were all subiect to Petre the chiefe bishop of all As they were Apostles that is to saye generall legates to plante Christes faithe thorough out all the world to founde churchs to preach the word of God finally to gouerne vniuersally in all places where their should come they trāsmitted this right none of thē to their successours but only Peter who was the generall shepherd of all Which is the cause that some of the fathers namely S. Austē saie that the power giuen to Peter was giuē to him In psalm 208. in the persone of the church because it was not giuē to him alone but to all his successours to cōtinue for euer As the Apostles were bishops of particuler places their auctoritie ended not with them but wēt further to the whole church to cōtinue for euer Now to applye this to our purpose howe doe the bishoppes that now are succede the Apostles They succede them as bishoppes not as Apostles For if they succeded them so who seeth not that as the Apostles made lawes absolued excommunicated and ruled thorough out all How bisshoppes be the successours of the Apostles the worlde where so euer they came so might the bishoppes that nowe succede thē doe the like The which thing seing we finde by no recordes sith the apostles time that euer it was practised in the church and if it should it were the nexte waie to disquiet al the worlde and to fill the churche full of schismes and heresies reason it selfe dothe conuince that the ordre taken emongest the Apostles was but by speciall priuileage not appointed to continue for euer or to derogate anie thing from the generall ordre begonne in Peter and appointed to be perpetuall as long as the church shoulde endure To conclude therfore I graunte to you M. Nowell that the Apostles were equall as they were all the generall legates of Christe but not as they had their speciall bishoprikes and charges limited vnto them In which latter sense because the bishoppes that are nowe succede the Apostles in which pointe they were not equall it foloweth against you that all bishoppes be not equall Iff yow will saye that the Apostles were also equall euen in that that
not by lawe As fast as you saie I laied on loade of not onelie popishe witnesses but popes them selues for popes I thinke it will be harde for you to name but one beside Leo Innocentius and Gregorie the first whose sainges I alleaged And why I brought those rather then other I showed good cause I denie not yeat for all that but that euen this onely Leo I thinke is a heauier loade then yow woulde be gladde to beare That I yealded so muche at that time as to omit the testimonies of those notable popes I repent me therof By popishe witnesses you can meane no other but the fathers off Christes church and those to within the first six hundred yeares for other I alleaged none If as you would discredite A shift of M. Nowelles not hearde of before to discredite all the fathers that make for the popes auctoritie the popes because they be popes so you will discredite these auÌ„cient writers because they be popish and write for the pope then you haue founde a more neare waie I confesse then M. Iuell coulde Who alloweth all within the first 600. yeares As before for the fundatioÌ„ of this your first exceptioÌ„ you laied a false sclaunderouse lye to builde vpon so now to vnderprop the same vnder the colour off a more reasonable cause of exceptioÌ„ you bring in a feined story of Sozimus bisshop of Rome who you saie did falsefie the decrees of the Nicene councel whereupon you will conclude that neither Leo b. 3. nor anye other pope neither is to be beleued in this matter Not vnlike to the foolishe gentle woman that sware she woulde neuer loue oure Ladie more because she was a Iewe borne and the Iewes had put Christe to deathe I knowe I shall seme to manie men to digresse to far from my purpose in folowing youre rouing from the matter yeat something will I saye thereto because I knowe it to be one of the principall baites whiche suche fishers as you be M. Nowell vse to laye to bring men from the obedience of the Sea of Rome and hetherto in oure English tongue nothing hath bene answered thereto But because it is here impertinently entermedled with the answere to Leo I will first to auoide confusion ende that matter and then handle the other by it selfe Yow saye that Pighius affirmeth and I denye that the title Nowell fol. 48. a. 9 off oecumenicall or vniuersall Patriarke apperteineth to the bisshop of Rome of right and that therefore there must nedes be some erroure You report vntrulye of me M. Nowell Loke better vpon Dorman the place I reherse there the wordes of S. Gregorye who reprehended Iohn the B. of Constantinople for taking on him the name of vniuersall bishop Which title although it perteined to that Iohn in no sense and was as he affected it a prophane title and altogether mete for Antichrist yeat in that sense and meaning that it belonged to S. Gregorie in which sense onelye it is to be taken when it is applyed to the bishop of Rome I denied it not to perteine to the pope Thus doe Pighius and I agree Thus is there no errour thus goe you forwarde to encrease the numbre Lye 33. of youre lyes Yow merueile greatly that Leo woulde so ambitiously chalenge Nowell a. 14. in this epistle the same title in effect which he refused so freely offred vnto him by the whole councell c. LEO Gregorie after him Pius whiche is nowe nor Dorman anye pope that euer was before did striue about titles yow maye be suer The best title that they haue eche off them hathe bene and is to be called Seruus seruorum Dei the seruaunt of the Seruauntes of God But of this maye be merueiled more in what schole yow haue learned this manner with him that of humiltie refuseth suche titles as seme to gloriouse to deale so hardelye that because he refuseth the name he must nedes be depriued of the thinge The histories make mention that Vitellius the emperoure woulde neither be called Augustus nor Cesar Cesar refused the name of kinge Augustus and Antonius of Lordes Woulde youre wisedome haue serued yow nowe M. Nowell if you had liued in their time to denie them their Emperiall kingly and lordly auctoritie because they woulde not be called by suche names The councel is no councel where the heade is absent or â— â—0 coÌ„senteth not being present and therfore if here this coÌ„panie gathered togather in giuing this title to the pope had iudged amisse yet had not the councell erred I denie not as you saie I doe that the councell did well bothe the councell did well in offring a name mete to expresse the auctoritie which the pope had and so erred not and the bishop also well to refuse the same Except yow will saye that S. Paule when he refused the almoise and charitie off good 1. Cor. 9. men either did euell in refusing it or they euill in offring it The pope claimeth not this title no more then Leo dyd accepte it being offred Calle him by what sobre honeste name you list Graunte him the auctoritie due to him let all titles goe This is that whiche the pope claimeth and you ought not to denie This is that whiche Leo most modestly not as yow falselye terme it ambitiously chalenged to Peters seate Nowe let all reasonable men iudge hardely of the goodnesse of this exception whiche is a. 24. youre first The seconde exception that you vse against this testimonie of Leo for now yow saie yow will goe an other waye Nowell a. 28. to worke with me is that Leo saieth here vntruelye if these be Leo his wordes for that yow saye is yeat in controuersie But before you proue it yow will first aske me a question whether I haue trulye translated the place and iff I haue howe I can make these wordes in this epistle there is one dignitie common to all bishoppes to agree with these folowing there is difference of power emongest them and it is giuen to one to be aboue all the reste whose iudgement is of moste auctoritie b. 1. and howe this man is not in dignitie differing from the rest Yow doe like a wise man to goe an other awaye to worke Dorman for some men thinke you did but plaie before But I merueile why you shoulde put anie doubtes whether these be Leo his wordes or no seing that Caluin confesseth this epistle to be true and to be his To youre first question I answere that I haue translated this place trulye according to the copie printed at Colein anno 1561. To the next moued vpon this how then I can make these wordes agree one dignitie common to all and difference of power that they agree thus that allthough they haue all one dignitie of priestehode or bishoprike that yeat there is difference of power in iurisdiction If spirituall examples like yow not if you can not
venerable memorie suerlie you haue with the better sorte not a little empaired youre estimation to vse suche cancred wordes and father them falselie vpon the councell But not staing here nor contentid onelie to haue saide this yow charge him further with the mainteining of one Apiarius against his fo 46. b. 19. bishop called Vrbanus This is a maliciouse surmise of youres M. Nowell and hath no grounde Yow saie that Zozimus pretended that it was decreed at Nowell fol. 46. b. 12. Nice that the B. of Rome shoulde be the chiefe iudge aboue all other bishoppes and that it shoulde be laufull for anie man vnder anie other bishop to appeale to the B. of Rome as to the highest iudge ouer all ecclesiasticall persones Yow haue made two lyes at once For first whereas Dorman to make men beleue that the Africanes acknowledged no maner of iurisdiction in the B. of Rome yow feine the state of the cawse betwene the pope and the bishoppes of Africa to haue bene that he pretended a decree of the councell of Nice to be chiefe iudge aboue all other bishoppes as though the Africanes had denied that and not stoode rather vpon this pointe to limite and restreine his auctoritie in matters criminall and causes of correction that is one spitefull lie As to them that considre howe in matters concerning A lye 41. faithe the Africanes submitted their doinges against August epist 90. Prosper lib. contra Collator cap. 41. Pelagius and Celestius the heretikes to Innocentius and this verie councell to Zozimus the popes by them to be approued how they required Innocentius to cite to Rome Pelagius the heretike being then in the Easte so farre from Rome it is a thing moste euident So that to alleage this facte of the Africanes truly helpeth nothing youre cause at all as by a familier example of oure owne countrie maie be proued vnto you It is not vnknowen that there be some places in Englande so priuileaged that for contractes made within those places they can be called frō thence to none of the kinges courtes yeat ceasse they not therefore to be the kinges subiectes Nowe if the Africanes pretended that they were not to be called out of their owne countrie to Rome for suche causes as seemed to them reasonable namely as they them selues alleaged because it was a combrouse thing to call witnesses for euerie thing by daunger of sea to Rome yeat woulde they not hereby take awaye his auctoritie and withdrawe their whole obedience The seconde lye is that the B. of Rome shoulde pretende that it Concil African cap. 105. A lie 42. shoulde be laufull for anie man vnder any other bishop to appeale c. That this is a lye the epistle written by the bishoppes of Africa to Bonifacius the pope dothe manifestly shewe in the which they making mention them selues of such pointes as were conteined in the popes lettres saie that the thirde was de tractandis praesbiterorum diaconorum causis apud finitimos episcopos si a suis excommunicati perperā fuerint of pleading the causes of priestes and deacons before the nexte bishoppes if they were vniustly excommunicate by their owne Is this nowe sincere dealing M. Nowell to saie that the pope pretended that any man vnder any other bisshop might appeale to him whereas here appointing the priestes and deacons to the bishoppes of their owne countrie he releaseth all suche right But hereoff I shall haue anon more occasion to speake when I come to that place where you charge the councell of Africa with making a decree against sailing ouer the sea with controuersies or appellations to the B. of Rome In the meane season I will returne to the accusation put in by you against Zosimus Seing M. Nowell you haue for your parte done what you are hable to proue Zozimus a falsefier and can not I will for the iustifieng of his innocencie proue by suche meanes as a negatiue maie be proued the contrarie that he is no falsefier First I saie therefore that this canon of the councell of Nice was not onelie alleaged by Zozimus but if not before Zozimus was borne yeat surelie almost 100. yeares before he was euer pope by Athanasius B. of Alexandria by all the bishoppes of Aegipt Thebais and Lybia Who writing to Felix the pope make expresse mention thereof not by heare saye but of their owne certeine knowledge as they that were present at the making thereof Their wordes are these Nam scimus in Nicaena magna Synodo c. For Epist Athanasij et Aegipt pontific ad Felicem de in festat Arianorū we knowe that in the greate Synode of Nice where were 318 bisshoppes it was of them all by one consent confirmed that neither councelles shoulde be holden nor bishoppes condemned without the B. of Rome his sentence that these and many other verie necessarie synodicall chapitres are burned and taken from vs * The heretikes burned the canons of the councell of Nice by heretikes which dailie molest vs and seke oure destruction that they maie thereby the easelier entrappe vs. VVhereupon hauing founde occasion all canonicall and Apostolicall auctoritie indifferently contemned they driue vs vnlaufullie * An absurditie to depriue bisshoppes vvithout making the pope priuey therto without making you priuey thereto from oure owne bishoprikes inuade the shepe committed vnto vs from Christe * The apostolicall seate maketh bisshoppes by the Apostolical grace and depriue vs of oure degrees To Marcus who was bishop of Rome before Felix they write for the true copie of the councel they make expresse mention of 70. canons that were there by their owne knowledge agreed vpon Marcus writeth againe his epistle is to besene that he hath not onelie enquired out the truthe of those canons of suche aboute him as were also present at the saide coūcell but by searching the recordes of Rome had founde all things to be as they had written in their lettres Nowe ioine these two lettres of Athanasius together M. Nowell with the answere made by Marcus and crie shame to youre selfe that haue so iniuriouslie diffamed this blessed bishop as with the crime of forging a decree which Athanasius and all the bishoppes of Aegipt Thebais and Libia testifie by their lettres to haue bene trulie made almost a hundred yeares before his time in the coūcel of Nice where they were present Cōferre now the testimonie of the bishops of Africa with the witnesse that Athanasius and the other bishoppes of the easte giue to this matter The one parte saieth they could finde no such canon in the copies that were sent from Constantinople and Hierusalem and no maruell the canons being burned as Athanasius saieth so long before The othersaieth it was in the copie sent from Nice to Rome The one parte denieth not but such a canon might be elles where The other saith there was suche a one and sheweth that it with other were burned by the Arrians
in the easte churches that they might the rather ouerronne the catholikes The one parte giueth a perfect cause of their testimonie because they were present when the matter was concluded Imagine nowe the other who hauing sought in the east churche for suche a decree saide they founde no suche to saie which they doe not that they had harde of some that were present at the councell that there was no suche thing decreed which witnesses were to be beleuid This that hath bene saide maye seme I doubte not to anye reasonable man a sufficient cause why we ought to giue full credite to Athanasius and those other bishoppes and pronounce for the innocencie of Zozimus Yeat to make it the better appeare how true it is that Athanasius Manie canons made in the 1. councell of Nice that we haue not nowe saieth of the burning of the Nicene canons I will note vnto yow certeine canons which the fathers and stories off the churche witnes to haue bene concluded in that councell which yeat are not emongest those twentie whiche we haue I will first beginne with S. Ambrose who telleth you M. Nowell that you haue done euell being twise maried Epi. 82. li. 10. colū 11 Note M. Nowell to thrust youre selfe into the ministerie of the church not only because the apostle he saieth forbiddeth it but the fathers also in the councell of Nice S. Augustin reporteth that there was a decree made in the councell of Nice that a bishop shoulde not ordeine his Epist 110. successour bshiop with him notwithstanding that him selfe he confessed by ignorance thereof was so ordeined by Valerius his bishop and predecessour Iustinian the emperour saith that it was defined by the first foure generall councels that the B. of Rome should be Constitut 131. the chiefe of all other priestes S. Hierome saieth that the booke of Iudith was counted emongest the canonicall by the fathers of Nice In praefat in Iudith Theodoritus alleageth a decree of giuing ecclesiasticall degrees of consecrating bishops made also by the councell of Nice Lib. 5. cap. 9. Leo affirmeth that there was an other canon touching the doctrine of Christes incarnation Epist ad Leonē 78. Where is there anie canon of the obseruation of the Easter daye the desire of the vniforme obseruation whereof Histor tripart lib. 1. cap. vlt. Haere 70. Lib. 2. ca. 2 was one cause why the councell of Nice was called Yeat dothe bothe Epiphanius and the tripartite historye make mentiō of a decree made by the fathers touching the same Youre Apologie citeth out of the councell off Nice that we ought not to be humiliter intēti ad panem et vinum ouer basely bent to breade and wine We confesse it to be true but shew you it emongest the canons Who doubteth that the councell of Nice was assembled together against Arrius Yeat shewe one canon againste him emongest the 20. that remaine Was there thinke yow none made That were surely a strange matter that in the whole doinges thereof nothing should haue bene concluded against him for the repressing of whome the councell was specially called together Howe saye you now M. Nowell is it likely that the Arrians burned the canons of the councel or no Are all these falsaries and corrupters that haue alleaged thus manye canons to be of the councell of Nice because at this daye there is none of them extant I thinke you will not saye so If yow will not why Zozimus more then they Yes you saye there is an other cause why if not Zozimus for I thinke by this tyme you be ashamed of that matter yeat some other hath fasified those canons What is that I praye yow Because there appeared in the copies sent from the Easte the Nowell fol. 47. a. 11. cleane contrarye to that whiche the pope claimeth For the sixt and seuenth decree off the sayde Nicene councell make the patriarkes of Alexandria Antiochia and Hierusalem equall with the bisshoppes of Rome Trulye if it had bene so it is merueile that Athanasius Dorman who was there present shoulde haue bene ignorant of it Therefore excepte you will saye that either this epistle is feined and not Athanasius owne as that is wont in other auctorities brought against yow to be youre common and last refuge when you be sore pressed which if you doe you must not onelye saye it but proue it also Or that his memorie was so euill that he coulde not remembre so notable a thing so latelye before done or his malice so greate that he woulde faine that which neuer was done you muste nedes graunte that this sixt and seuenth canon haue an other meaning then to make the patriarkes of Alexandria Antiochia and Hierusalem equall with the bishoppes off Rome And so haue they in dede For the true meaning of The true vnderstanding of the 6. and 7. canon of the councel of Nice them is to appoint the limites and boundes of those primates iurisdictions of whom mention is there made according to the custome of the bishop of Rome As the wordes whiche answere trulye to the greke and are in Latine these doe wel declare Antiqui mores obtineant in Agipto Libia Pentapoli vt Alexandrinus horum omnium habeat potestatem quia episcopo Romano hoc consuetum est Similiter etiam per Antiochiam in caeteris prouincijs priuilegia seruentur ecclesijs Let olde customes be kepte in Aegypt Libia and Pentapoli that the B. of Alexandria haue the auctoritie ouer them all for as muche as the B. of Romes maner is suche Semblablye also thorough out Antioche and in other prouinces let the churches haue their priuileges kepte These wordes of the councell as they doe nothing at all diminishe the B. of Romes auctoritie so doe they confirme it verie muche The reason of the councell why the iurisdiction of the B. of Alexandria shoulde extende so far being beside the auncient custome in those partes the custome also of the B. Rome who it is to be thought vsed of long time so to alow it by conteining in his rescriptes those prouinces vnder the patriarchie of Alexandria Which was now brought as an argumēt to confirme and continue the same For this meaning that they should be all equall in power and auctoritie there is no worde there able to induce Except a man woulde bring in those graue fathers reasoning thus foolishely because the B. of Rome hath iurisdictiō ouer his owne bishoprike for more you giue him not and the councell nameth no place at all therfore the B. of Alexandria shall haue iurisdiction ouer all the bishoppes of Aegipt Libia and Pentapoli Had not this bene thinke you a goodly making of them equall If you will saie that the councell ment that the B. of Rome shoulde be patriarke in the west partes and therein they shoulde be equall beside that there be no suche wordes in the councell to inforce suche a meaning yeat shoulde
quod iudicio iungit laude non diuidit That is to saie Let these wranglers knowe that they obiect superfluously that there is no speciall nor seuerall testimonie giuen to these bookes the rule and doctrine whereof is praised in all bookes * Note For the Apostolicall See alloweth with those bookes that it knewe before those that differ not from theÌ„ and those which it ioyneth together in iudgement it seperateth not in praise Nowe to conclude M. Nowell are you no otherwise a schismatike thinke yow then S. Augustine and Prosper I woulde to God ye were not Then woulde you acknowledge with S. Augustine a preeminence in the B. of Rome aboue other bishoppes the seate of Rome to be suche as hell gates shall not preuaile against it Then woulde you submit to the pope your doinges to be alowed as bothe S. Augustine and the whole councell of Afrike did then woulde you extende the iurisdiction of that See to England Scotland Fraunce and to the Easte churches Then woulde you confesse that the B. of Rome for the time being is the mouthe to speake to all the worlde and beareth the sworde of Peter to cut of wicked men to helpe and arme the good For all these thinges doe S. Austen as hathe bene declared and Prosper acknowledge Whereby appeareth howe shamefully you haue sclaundered them with the maintenauÌ„ce of your schismaticall and erroniouse opinions concerning the See of Rome To S. Augustine Orosius and Prosper you ioyne the patriarkes of Alexandria and Constantinople Cirillus and Atticus But why them I praie you M. Nowell Because in those canons that they sent there was no mentioÌ„ of that which the B. of Rome alleaged I graunte you for they were burned by the Arrians as by the reporte of Athanasius yowe hearde before And must they nedes be schismatikes with yowe because the Arrians burned the true copies of the councell of Nice and they sent suche as they had Howe holdeth that argument I praie yow Well yow thought euerie thing woulde helpe and therefore yow iumbled all together let it speede as it might * The answere to the obiection made of the African councell Nowe to returne to the African councell and to conclude in fewe wordes all that hathe bene or maie hereafter by me be saide therein I first saie that the African councell made no suche decree as yow saie it did nexte that at this time when S. Austen and the other bishoppes of Africa were assembled about the time of Bonifacius the pope the firste the controuersie was not about the vniuersall auctoritie of the B. of Rome but touching the moderation and limiting thereof in certeine causes of appellation The like whereunto as it hathe bene attempted and done in this realme of England in the daies of that noble prince Edward E. 3. anno 25. 27. the thirde by restreining the popes power in conferring of ecclesiasticall promotions and barring the triall of certeine sutes out of the realme without breache of vnitie or renouncing due obedience to that See so was it at the beginning in Afrike although after it brake out in to an open schisme Thirdly I answere that if there had bene suche a decree made as is pretended yeat this considered that it had but the auctoritie of one prouince it ought to giue place to that councell at the which there were present bishoppes not of Africa only who were also there but off all the partes of the worlde beside I meane the councell of Sardica in the third and 7. canon whereof the bishoppes of Africa consenting thereto 300. if you go to nombring M. Nowell for your 217. and chosen men all of purpose to matche with the Arrians agreed vpon this which the Africanes denied to wit that it should be laufull for any bishop condemned to appeale to the bishop of Rome Last of all iff you thinke M. Nowell that it maie be laufull for you to obiect against vs the facte of the Africanes who vpon suche beginning as hathe bene declared came at the last to open rebellion against their laufull heade I doubte not but to all that be learned or wise it will seme as reasonable that we obiect to yow againe the perfecte reconciliation and humble submission of the saide Africanes made after a hundred Epistol Bonifacij 2. ad Eulalium Alexand Tom. 2. Concil yeares wandring a straie after greate plagues by loÌ„gue captiuitie vnder the moste barbarouse and cruell Wandales by Eulalius the Archebishop of Carthage in the name of that whole prouince to Bonifacius then pope the seconde off that name Thus muche touching the African councell It foloweth After this Zozimus his successour Bonifacius the firste Celestine the first with all others allmoste folowing Zozimus steppes and Nowell b. â—4 ambition haue with toothe and naile striuen for this supremacie and for that purpose did sticke still to the falsified Nicene canon and haue likewise falsified other councelles in sundrie places and haue forged a greate many of the epistles nowe abrode in the names of the olde popes Clement Anacletus Euaristus Telesphorus and other their predecessours Suerlye M. Nowell if there had bene that sinceritie in Dorman yow and vprightnes that shoulde be in a diuine yff that grauitie and poise that shoulde be in a writer yff that common honestie that shoulde be in euerie Christian man yow woulde either for the one respect or the other haue so tempered youre stile that there shoulde neuer haue slipped from youre pen into the viewe of the worlde suche cancred and rancorouse slaunders against suche learned and vertuouse fathers so sclendrelie yea by no meanes at all proued Bring furthe the canons therefore that yow saye haue bene falsified name the popes that haue forged these epistles Name them not onelie but proue it otherwise yow wil be taken for a maliciouse Lier Thinke yow that it maye be sufficient for yow to borowe this oute off Caluins Institutions and without anie farder proufe bid Lib. 4. Inst. cap. 8. Sect. 11. all the worlde beleue you Yow be not Caluin M. Nowell nor England is not Geneua God be praised therefore But yow proue it thus Whereas euer those godlye olde fathers euer subiect to persecution Nowell fo 48. a. 3. and deathe neuer thought of anie suche matters neither had lust or leisour to occupie their heades and pennes aboute such ambitiouse matters You are foulie deceauid M. Nowel for the greater the Dorman persecution was the more necessarie must it nedes be to teache that ordre which Christe left in his churche of the necessitie of one heade that so the membres acknowleging the same might be out of the feare of all schismaticall discorde Neither made they so often mention thereof for ambition sake as youre spiders nature sucketh out hauing learned at their Maisters handes before that the greatest emongest them shoulde belike the least Who seeth not that Lucae 22. by suche foolishe collections as
Societye of Iesus other some to lyue in contemplations The cause of diuersitye off churche seruice emongest religiouse men and meditations as the Carthusians must bestowe more time in studye and contemplation then in publike prayer other to be wholly in the churche to praye for their sinnes and the sinnes of the people as the Benedictines and other who maye and ought therefore to haue their seruice longer yeat all this notwithstanding the churche seruice is in the substance thereof in all places vniforme For all religiouse men worshippe one God call vpon his blessed sainctes to helpe vs praie for the deade c. This because the whole churche of Christe doeth and euer hathe done denye it if yow can and yow doe not in youre seruice the blowe that yow had thought to haue fastened vpon vs is light vpon youre owne nowle and youre seruice thus farre differing frō Christes churche not theirs that agreeth therewith is schismaticall Youre last diuersitye is of rules and life Is it anie maruell good Reader if they that after the Apostles first practised the imitation of their life in renouncing the worlde and vanites thereof as S. Basile S. Austen S. Benedict S. Dominike S. Frauncis did deliuer to their folowers diuerse rules of life this considered that allthough Christ were the only marcke that they all shot at yeat the meanes that they vsed to compasse and atteine therto were diuerse S. Dominike for example had this speciall meaning to make Christe knowen to the rude and ignorant by preaching S. Frauncis bothe by worde and example enforced him selfe to persuade to the proude and arrogant humilitie and contempt of riches Who can now denie but that suche meanes are here to be prescribed as by the which the professours of this ordre or that maie sonest atteine to their desired ende As it is in these so is it in all other Benedictines Carthusians Bernardines c. Emongest all the which it suffiseth vs that yow are able to name no suche diuersitie of rules and life as being diuerse one from the other are anie of them against the commaundementes of God whereas contrarywise how diuerse so euer they seme to yow they all agree in the ende of glorifieng God allthough they differ in the meanes the one worcking this waie the other that and yeat euery waie good All times woulde faile me if I shoulde or coulde reherse all Nowell their diuersities which is the verie propretie off schismes and sectes Helpe the man to a daie more some good bodie for Dorman goddes sake Will yow see so much worthy matter lost for lacke of time to vtter it If not a daie some man spare him an idle houre perhappes it would serue his turne as well as a yeare O that there were now an other Iohannes de temporibus to lende yow M. Nowell some of his time But if the worst happen that no suche creditour can be founde rather take the morow after Domes daie or the Griekes calendes and holde men in suspense till that time put them not out of all hope by suche discomfortable wordes Well we haue all that we shall haue at this time I perceiue what conclude yow therfore of these diuersities that yow haue rehersed already Forso the that they are the verie propretie of schismes and sectes Nowe iwisse M. Nowell if yow had all times at commaundement if yow coulde proue no otherwise schismes and sectes to be emongest vs then by this meanes you nede to take no longre daie the time that you haue spent allready was long inough and to long to without yow had better bestowed it S. Austen teacheth you an other S. Austens definition of a schisme lesson to knowe schismes by then this that you haue learned of the Apologie of Bale and suche like maisters of the diuersitie of coates hosen shoes c. For thus defineth he a schisme Schisma est recens congregationis ex aliqua sententiarum Lib. 2. cap. 7. contra Crescon Crammat diuersitate dissensio Schisme is a newe dissension of a companie by some diuersitie of opinions Now I praie yow what schisme or secte haue yow proued all this while to be emongest Catholikes or what suche schisme or secte coulde yow proue if all times failed yow not The learned fathers Cyprian Austen Optatus and other describe schismatikes to be such as set vp chaire against chaire erect altar against altar How far wide is this frō your description These be those schismatikes and sectaries with an infinite multitude Nowell whereof of late Englande was replenished of the whiche nowe thankes be to God the realme is well ridde Vpon youre false and vntrue premisses yow inferre as Dorman false and as vntrue a conclusion I will make therefore the conclusion true and right for yow These be the religiouse persones who embrasing the perfection of christen religion after the counsell of oure Sauiour after the example of the Apostles of the learned and holie fathers S. Hierome S. Austen and S. Basile who professing voluntary pouerty holy obedience and perfecte virginitie serued God bothe daie and night preached the Catholike faith praied for all estates relieued the poer aboute them kept liberall hospitalite These be such whose profession and order is blamelesse though the life of many were faulty as it was also euen in the primitiue church in the time of S. Paule of S. Basill S. Hierom and S. Augustin who yet haue ben tolerated in Christendom for the good and vertuous sake as emonge all other sortes of men the euil are tolerated for the goodes sake These are they with a great multitude whereof praised be God and the deuotion of such as were the authours of such godly fundations our dere countre of England not of late onelie M. Nowell but euen sence the first cōming of Christen faithe in to England abunded to the honour of God and welth of the realme of the whiche now thankes be to lewde Apostatas to rennagat friers and monkes to vowebreakes and incestuous votaries to vpstert protestants the realme is miserably spoiled so that if yow passe from one ende of the realme vnto the other of so many thousand monasteries hospitals almes houses chappels and cloysters as then stode partly endued with bountefull liuely hods partly charitably maintained of the inhabitants to the great weale of their soules of so many I saie so standyng you shall not see one stande now but either defaced or prophaned either all ruinouse or in the hādes of such who vse it as temporall landes not for the maintenance of spirituall exercises So that if you meete a thousande men and women one after an Nowell other and aske of them of what religion be you they shall al and euery one answere you I am a Christian we be all Christians there shall not one answere to you as was wont vnder your heade I am of the religion of S. Frauncis c. I tolde you before that this worde
not by the waye but merueile at why in chalenging the pope to be no Leuiticall prieste you did not aswell except against Rome because it is not in Iudea For why shoulde not the place be all one as well as the prieste Well it shall suffise for this tyme M. Nowel that as when it is not impertinent it shal be proued that Rome is the place which God hathe chosen so in the meane season it is not nedeful that the prieste shoulde be of the Leuiticall ordre whiche now is abrogate but of that onely which Christe hauing Hebreo 7. planted in his churche to continue for euer hathe succeded in place of the other * VVhether the place be to be vnderstande of one prieste or many Youre thirde consideration commeth nearer and is in dede to oure purpose of one heade in the churche or manie yeat that also if it had bene so well considered as it ought iff yow had as depelye weighed the wordes that folowe nolens obedire Sacerdotis imperio that will not obeye the prieste his commaundement as yow lightlye and gladly snatched at those that went before Thow shalt come to the priestes of the Leuiticall sorte You shoulde easelye haue sene that the plurall numbre doth note rather the continuaunce of the commaundement from prieste to prieste in succession then that it should be ment of many priestes at one time The iudge of the nation ioyned with the prieste maketh for the seculer sworde executing the lawe off the prieste * Of iudging according to the lawe The fourth consideration brainsicke Brentius considered before you To the which I answere that whereas nowe you flee to the olde translation who at other tymes call vs to the fountaines to the Greke and to the Hebrue veritie as semeth best to serue for your aduauntage that I not with M. Stapleton but with the late learned and godlye councell of Trent affirming the olde translation to be specially folowed in the correction of maners or determination of faithe doe auouche the same and that yeat you are thereby neuer the nearer to youre purpose the common translation as well ouerthrowing you as dothe the Hebrue veritye For the wordes whereupon you grounde youre selfe And thow shalt doe what so euer they shall saye vnto the who gouerne the place that oure Lorde hathe chosen and what so euer they shall teache the according to his Lawe as though saie you the prieste might teache otherwise and then he shoulde not be obeyed be not conditionall but enunciatiue that is to saye wordes that expresse what he shall doe in dede to assure the rather the ignoraunt man to obeye his commaundement This interpretation maye manye wayes be proued First because it ought to be presumed and all men are bounde as muche as maye be to indeuour that the olde translation and the fountaines maye agree together Which because by this meanes is brought to passe and by that sense whiche you giue in no wise it can it foloweth that this meaning is rather to be receiued then youres An other cause is the circumstance of the place it selfe which telleth vs that the people was bidden goe to the priestes and to the iudge whiche shoulde be for the tyme to aske hys iudgement of harde and doubtefull questions If euery one of the people had bene hable to finde out in the question that he shoulde propose to the iudge what were agreable to Gods lawe and what were not when the iudge tolde him truthe and when he failed Neither coulde there anye question haue bene doubtefull neither shoulde there consequentlye haue bene anye nede to haue had suche a iudge When shoulde those wordes haue bene euer put in execution that folowe He that off pride refuseth to obeye the priestes commaundement shall dye if this had bene the meaning that you dreame of Might not anye man haue wrangled as ofte as he had listed that the sentence was not according to the lawe And therfore to put the matter out of al doubte the Scripture saieth in this verye place indicabunt tibi indicij veritatem they shall tell truthe and giue thee right iudgement To conclude there is one place in the scripture off all other moste plaine to couince this sense that the catholike doctrine mainteineth Reade Malachias the prophete the second chapitre and you shall finde that it was a couenaunt made by God with Leui that his priestes shoulde Malath 2. obserue in iudgementes truthe and equitye He pronounceth that the lippes of the prieste shoulde kepe knowledge that the lawe shoulde be required at his mouthe because he is Goddes angell Can there be anie thing that might more assure vs off the meaning of that place then this As for that that you obiect of S. Paule threatening vengeaunce fol. 59. b. 14. to the high prieste and of S. Peter also and S. Iohn the Apostles who woulde not obeye him because the last condition off commaunding after Goddes lawe was lacking for S. Paule Actor 23. I might answere yow that he repented him afterwarde and pleadid ignoraunce although I doubte not but that bothe by him he was iustlie reprehended and by S. Peter and S. Iohn lawfullie disobeied And yeat will it not folowe that therefore in this place of Deuter whiche we handle the prieste might erre in his iudgementes Will yow knowe why Forsothe because as saieth S. Cyprian oure Lorde Lib. 1. epist. 3. being now crucified the priestes began to be sacrilegouse wicked and bloudie and reteined nothing of priestly honour and auctoritie Lo M. Nowell why yow maie not conclude as yow doe because the priestes had nowe lost their auctoritie that before they had The high prieste yow saie charged them not B. 24. as guyltie of deathe for this disobediēce The texte hathe that Act. 4. they sent the apostles awaie non inuenientes quomodo punirent eos propter populum c. Not knowing howe to punishe them because of the people Are yow able to saie that yff they had not stoode in this feare of the people that they did that the apostles shoulde haue escaped so Thus far I haue thought good to ioyne with you concerning this place from the which crauing helpe of Bucer and Brentius yow thought to scape by wrangling about the wordes iuxta legem eius according to his lawe Whiche wordes toe when all is done if they were conditionall as yow woulde make men beleue they are be to the vttermoste fulfilled in the pope Of whose predecessours being in nombre 235 yowe are not able to name anie one that euer deliuered to the churche anie wrong faithe or false opinion to be beleued If anie of them erred as men yeat were they priuileaged as the successours of Peter and either spedelie forsoke the same or keping it within their owne breastes were neuer by goddes prouidence suffred to vtter it to the hurte of the churche For a notable example whereof Vigilius the pope maie serue vs.
folowe that euerie diocesse hath not now one chiefe ruler but manie If you will not so saye then muste you yealde to this that Rogatianus complaining to the Archebishop graunted that notwithstanding that superioritie whiche he had ouer all that were of his diocesse there was yeat the archebishop aboue him And if these two maie stande together Euerie bishop is the heade and chiefe priest of his owne diocesse and yeat there is one archebishop aboue all then why may not these propositions stande together Euerie Archebishop is chiefe of the prouince where he is Archebishop and yeat there is one pope chiefe of thē all Rogatianus did here more then he neded who denieth that If the B. of London haue in his diocesse a stubborne and vnruly prieste who doubteth but he maie first punishe him by his owne auctoritie if he list And yeat if he refer the matter to the Archebishop of Cauntorburie he dothe the Archebishop more honour and sheweth him selfe to be the more humble The Archebishop is an eye to ouersee the bishop that he doe his dutie as the pope is to ouersee all So long as the bishop is hable to take sufficiēt ordre for all occurrētes in his diocesse him selfe if he vse not this power but referre it to the Archebishop he dothe more then he nedeth but yeat honorablie for the Archebishoppes parte and humbly for his owne Where you saye that suche by S. Cyprian transgresse the Nowell fo 61. a. 1. lawe of God in the Deuteronomie that make them selues bishoppes ouer other bishoppes c. It is true in S. Cyprians meaning that is in suche as Pupianus Dorman was who being an inferiour membre no primate no patriarche no pope woulde take vpon him to iudge S. Cyprian the archebishoppe and iudge appointed of God This place includeth no more the pope who is heade bisshop ouer all other bishops and heade iudge ouer al iudges then it dothe note the bishoppes of euery diocesse for taking vppon them to be the iudges of the curates that be vnder them who in their seuerall cures be iudges in Christes steede it can not be denied For they haue power giuen them of God to loose and binde to iudge inter lepram lepram betwene syn and syn It perteineth I saye no more to the pope then it dothe to the Archebishop who iudging and ouerloking the bishoppes doinges falleth not I trust by youre owne iudgement into this faulte that S. Cyprian noted in Pupianus If then the bishop maye iudge ouer suche priestes as be vnder him Goddes iudges in their particuler cures and the Archebishoppes againe ouer the bishoppes without anye offence why may no◠I praye you the pope be iudge of the doinges of the Archebishops and all other Youre argument which is this Pupianus the bisshoppe might not be iudge ouer the doinges off Saint Cyprian An absurde reason who was an Archebishoppe Ergo the pope maye not be the iudge off all other bisshoppes is like to this M. Nowell maye not make him selfe iudge ouer the bishop of London ergo the Archeb of Cauntorbury dothe not well and is a false vsurper in making him selfe heade bishop ouer all the bisshoppes and chiefe iudge ouer all the iudges in his prouince For such a one as is M. Nowell was Pupianus that proude arrogant man a priuate persone for anye thinge that appeareth to the contrarye as he is This propertie whiche you falselye note to be in the pope is the propertie of your good Lorde M. Grindall with his felowes who occupye the places of other laufull bishoppes yeat liuing and therefore make themselues as S. Cyprian noteth of Pupianus bishoppes ouer bishoppes and iudges ouer the iudges off God for the time appointed That the place of Gregorie Nazianzen was applyed aptly and to the purpose The 19. Chapitre BECAVSE I saye that I remembre a sayng off Gregorye Nowell fol. 61. b. 3. Nazianzene yow infer thereuppon M. Nowell that men maye note that I haue a good memorie c which notwithstanding had I yow saie enlarged to a fewe wordes going before it had appeared that these wordes being spoken of one god gouerning the whole worlde had bene impertinent to proue that there ought to be one pope to gouerne the whole churche You maye note good readers that M. Nowell hath more Dorman wit then honestie that can cauill at a phrase of speache pleasantly when the matter it selfe he can not reproue trulye For yow saye M. Nowell full clerckely that this place b. 29 is alltogether impertinent to the purpose Yeat in the verye nexte wordes folowing youre shrewde wit put yow in remembraunce that there was a waie how I might bring it to make yeat at the least some shewe to the purpose And therefore you saye Nowe if M. Dorman list to transfer the sentence from God gouerning Nowell b. 29. all the worlde to men ruling in the worlde after this sorte Nazianzene saieth there is one onely God who gouerneth all Ergo there must be one onely pope or heade bishoppe to gouerne all the churche I denie the argument and affirme that it foloweth no more then that there must be one only Emperour to gouerne all the worlde I reason not M. Nowell altogether so barelye as yow Dorman surmise that there is but one God and that therefore there must be but one heade to gouerne the churche The force of my conclusion dependeth vpon the reason why there is but one God which is this where many rule there is sedition This argument of myne I so little repent me of that I will here presse you with one other comming from the same moulde S. Austen labouring to proue the certeintie of one God emongest other reasons vseth this for one Sicut enim in ipsa rerum naturamaior est auctoritas vnius ad vnum omnia Lib. de vera religio cap. 25. redigentis c. For euen as in naturall thinges the auctoritye off one bringing all thinges to one is greater neither hath any multitude in the kinde of man any power but such as consentith that is thinketh one thing so in religion the auctority of them ought to be greater and of more credite who call vs to one Of the place of Gregorie Nazianzene as before I reasoned that as there was but one god in the worlde to auoide confusion so there must be in the churche but one heade for the same cause Euen so from this faing of S. Augustine I reason in lyke maner that as the auctoritye of them is greater in religion who call vs to one God because their opinion maketh moste for the conseruation of vnitye so ought their auctoritye and credite to accounted greatest who call vs in the churche to one heade Now what haue yow to saie against this maner of reasoning M. Nowell Yow denie the argument and saie that it foloweth no more then that there must fo 62. a. 3. be one onely Emperour to
youre obiection made of circuncision whiche you saye I maie aswell proue to be to be vsed nowe because it was vsed in the olde lawe as proue the necessitie of one chiefe heade therby No that I can not I will in fewe wordes tell you a cause why The newe lawe is called by the scripture Hebr. 9. tempus correctionis the time of reformation because it correcteth and reformeth the olde whiche brought nothing to perfection Circuncision in the olde lawe was one of Hebr. 7. those thinges that God woulde in the time of grace take awaye and substitute in the place therof a better that is Baptisme So was not the placing of one heade ouer the Synagoge which being done for the quieting of controuersies you maye be suer God would no lesse shoulde continue in the ordre of his churche which he loued so dearely then in the Synagog which was but a figure thereof And yeat if we shoulde folowe youre iudgement the wisdome of God which came to reforme the olde lawe and make a newe perfecte lawe should by appointing ouer his churche manie heades for one make the lawe in that pointe lesse perfecte then was the other Thus you see I can not reason as you saye I might circuncision in respect of baptisme being vtterly an imperfection of the lawe whereas that ordre of one chiefe prieste was moste perfite and appointed to continue for euer excepte you can proue that God hath changed that ordre for the better as he hath in taking awaye circuncision This first side of the. 64. leafe conteineth no other matter fol. 64. a. then greate bragges of the Apologie withe a prophecie of M. Nowells that none of the Romishe cleargie shal euer be able to answere it to anie purpose That prophecie is now thankes be to God proued false and M. Nowell withall a vaine lier and a pelting prophete And nowe I thinke M. Nowell a false prophetâ— that by this time all honest men will maruell the lesse to see so manie lies in this Reproufe of M. Nowelles seing that he hath bene so friendely to shewe him selfe a patrone in defending this lewde lieng Apologie of the whiche iff I haue made any lye it is because I called it but a fardle of lyes whereas I should haue called it as M. Nowell hath sence taught me a whole lighter You blame me not you saye for alleaging anie thinge out Nowell b. â—6 of the olde TestameÌ„t but for my guilefull and vntrue application of places of the olde Testament and of the doctours to suche purposes as they apperteine nothing vnto at all nay are most contrarie to the same You refuse not scripture but the wroÌ„g applicatioÌ„ So wil Dorman anie heretike saye to yow except the Swenckfeldian with whome you shall haue to doe I applie this scripture as the catholike consent of all the worlde dothe applye it whome folowe you in refusing it That there hathe ben nothing proued by me neither fo 65. a. 3. by reason nor by examples of common wealthes it is an impudent lye of youres M. Nowell I haue proued by bothe A lye 52. that as euerie kingdome and countrie hathe his temporall head to gouerne the same by like statutes lawes and customes so the church which is but one muste haue one head to directe it in one faith and religion No reason no examples be againste me for no reason admitteth no example teacheth that one bodie shoulde be better gouerned by manie heades then by one And therfore that is an other Lye 53. lye S. Cyprian and S. Hierome thoughe they speake but of Byshoppes in theire owne diocesse Yeat by greater reason their wordes take place in the whole church as before hathe bene declared That euerie diocesse haue a peculier bishop it is not contrary to the Popes supremacy as you vntruly say And if it should be coÌ„trarie how would you then auoyde his reason that woulde inferre here vpon that the hauing then of seuerall gouernours of euerie shyre in a realme shoulde be contrarie to the gouernement of one supreme gouernour the kinge or the Quene Wel then seinge it is not cleane contrarie to the hauinge of one general heade to haue manie inferiour heades S. Cyprian and S. Hierome be not cleane contrarie to me nor contrarie neither This is therfore allso a lye I gaue to Leo such an epitheton Lye 54. as the whole councell of Calcedon gaue to him before Yf you be angrie there at wreke your selfe vpoÌ„ them Leo maketh for vs directlie all were it trewe that you cauill of Zozimus But as the reader vnderstandeth by this time I dowte not both Zozimus is proued innocente and you a false slaunderer a 18. Neither the lawe neither S. Cyprian vpon the lawe speaketh against one head bishop That is an other flat lye M. Nowell For to testifie one sense of scripture whiche Lye 55. Sainte Cyprian doth is not to condemne an other My collection from the one head bishop of the Synagog hath ben proued to be good and laufully deduced I neade not here to repeate it againe You wishe that I and all other aduersaries of the truth so it Nowell a. 17. pleaseth you to call vs woulde reason from the shadowes off the olde lawe as did S. Paule but you saye we doe not You proue youre sayeng by a bare deniall And then Dorman yowe passe to an other cleane wyde from the purpose But suche is youre rhetorike moste worthye to be noted Well let vs examine youre wanderinge extrauagant note VVe haue made yow yow saye off Christians Iues and Nowell fol. b. 14. oure selues off ministers off the Ghospell Aaronicall Leuites cet Not we M. Nowell but the primitiue churche as youre Dorman selfe confesse in this place in saynge that these thinges beganne in Saint Hieromes tyme. Yow do well to folowe so Lib. 4. cap. 18. neare the steppes of youre Maister Caluin who chargethe in his institutions the fathers of the primitiue churche for counterfeiting the Iuish maner of sacrificing more nearly theÌ„ The fathers off the primitiue churche sclaundered by Caluin other Christ had ordeined or the nature of the gospell did beare But if these thinges were in the primitiue churche then beare the people no more I praye you in hande that you resemble the primitiue church Iff S. Hierome complained of suche thinges in his time then appeale no more to the first six hundrethe yeares if you be wise Then terme not churche ornamentes late superstitions But if S. Hierome complained not at all of suche ornamentes of the church but in the Epistle ad Nepotianum lamented only that weightier matters as the true decking of Christes churche with good ministers were neglected If in the epistle ad Demetriadem he plainelye saieth Non reprehendo non abnuo I reproue it not I dissent not then haue you abused the reader with S. Hieromes name and belied him once agayne
run to morowe nexte with the bloude of heretikes as God of his tendre mercie forbid suche hardenes of harte in those that professe them selues to be Christians yeat ought not therefore the cause to be iudged anie whit the better seing that we see the cursed secte of Anabaptistes and haue heard of the wicked Donatistes and knowe beside that the diuell hathe aswell his false witnesses readie to suffer gladlie moste bitter deathe for their conceaued opinions as Christe hathe his true martirs to doe the like for the true catholike faithe Thus muche be saide to M. Nowelles impertinent discourse of copes vestimentes gilted crosses candelstickes c. and to his other idle talcke of the persecution forsothe and martirdome sauing youre reuerences of his deare brethern Nowe at the length he commeth to that whiche he shoulde chiefely haue answered in this place that is of thetrieng of all controuersies by the only scripture To proue that of controuersies rising about the true vnderstandinge of the scripture the scripture it selfe should be the iudge he vseth a similitude wherin he compareth vs to the phariseis and him selfe and his companions to the Apostles And vpon that comparison reasoneth in effecte as foloweth As in the controuersie betwene the Apostles and the Phariseis Nowell fol. 69. a. 1 the question being whether Christe were the true Messias the Apostles affirming the Phariseis denieng if the matter had bene referred to the interpretation and determination of the high prieste and his consistorie we mighte yeat haue loked withe the Iues for Messias to come and as it was no reason that in the controuersie betwene the saide highe priestes and the Apostles whether they had put Christe iustlie or vniustlie to death they shoulde be them selues the iudges who were not onelie accessaries but the principall partes to the murther so must we nowe with the Apostles make the scripture the iudge of oure controuersies and the pope by all reason must be excluded as he that is the sinke of all the abhominations wherewith he that hath but halfe an eye maie see how shamefully the lawe of God is as it was by the Phariseis corrupted Youre similitude M. Nowell halteth and is not able Dorman therefore to go so far as it should For the better declaration whereof it is to be knowen that as sone as Iohn the Baptist Matth. 11. began to preache the Synagoge which had no promise to continue for euer began to languishe and so was at the length weakened that after Christes deathe it came to nothing Christe hauing then established a newe church and made his Apostles the doctours and iudges thereof and Peter the gouernour of all Now see I praye you how this similitude of youres holdeth The Apostles being the true church of Christe referred not their controuersies to the Phariseis which perteined not to the church yea were enemies and persecutours thereof but referred the same to the scriptures and iudged by the scriptures them selues ergo the church of Christe that is nowe maye not be the iudge of controuersies but we must refer the same to the scriptures I denie that consequent M. Nowell You proue it because the Apostles did not referre their controuersies to the high priestes and Phariseis I graunte you for their priestehode and auctoritie was expired When you shal be hable to proue vs Phariseis and your selues the true churche then maie you by this similitude reason that as the Apostles referred not the iudgement of the meaning of the scriptures to the Phariseis which were not the church nor of the church so you will not being the church refer the matter to vs but iudge of the scripture your selues as the Apostles The Apostles being the true churche of Christe iudged of the scriptures did In the meane season as the Apostles alleaged for thē selues the scripture and saied it made for thē wherein they gaue iudgement of the scripture so foloweth it that Christes church which is now the same that was then iudgeth in al controuersies which is the right and true sense Neither can it serue you to saie to the contrarie as you doe sclaunderouslie that the worde of God hauing bene moste shamefully by vs corrupted as he that hath but halfe an eye maie well see it is no reason being parties that we shoulde be iudges therein Seing that thus might the Phariseis haue saide euen of the Apostles them selues and laied to their charges partialitie because they were Christes scholers and disciples and so parties to the cause whiche they mainteined and also for that you haue not as yeat proued nor euer shal be hable to proue that Christes church hath euer erred in the faith or the heade thereof at anie time deliuered to the church any tradition or erroniouse opinion whereby the worde of God hath bene corrupted Which assertion of youres being moste directly against the scriptures bearing witnes so manifestly Math. 14. 16. Ioan. 14. alibi of the continuance of the churche incorrupted so often auouched by you and being the only fundation of this plea of youres that we be the Phariseis and you Christes true Apostles me thinketh you should haue done well once in so often affirming it to haue proued by one sentence of scripture or some approued auctor and not facingly to saye that he that hathe but halfe an eye maie see that it is so or elles till you coulde haue proued it it had bene more for your honestie to haue absteined from suche vnmercifull and vnchristianlike demeanure as you vse towardes bothe the church of Christe and the head thereof Where you saye that I will haue the scripture reiected there you reporte vntrulie of me This I saie that scripture not thorough anie imperfection or insufficiencie that is in it but onelie by occasiō of stubborne wrangling and contentiouse natures who neuer will giue ouer the opinion that they haue once conceiued euerie one being at apoint to receiue no other interpretation thereof thē to them shal seme good is not hable to ende and determine al cōtrouersies moued vpō the lettre thereof and that therfore euen as in the lawes of the realme whiche were to decide all controuersies sufficient so that the lawe being broughte euerie man woulde furthewithe yealde to it because they will not there be iudges by the prince appointed to cut of all altercations and to preserue the realme in quiet who when the councellours bothe of the one parte and the other haue contentiouslie disputed the matter eache of them affirming that the lawe is on his side shall by opening the meaning thereof ende the strife So is it not to be thought but that God forseing the innumerable sectes of heretikes that shoulde trouble his churche of whome there shoulde be no one no not of them that directlie blush not to teache Suencfeldius that there ought to be no scripture at all that woulde not colourablie defende the same by scripture it is not I saie to be
Dorman vaine or euill thing neither because the Arrians and Anabaptistes vsed it neither for any other cause you haue therfore beelied me once more I acknowledge it to be bothe A lye 80. proffitable and necessarie only I saie that to ende all controuersies it is an insufficient meanes Because reiecting the determination of the churche you take vpon you as the Arrians did and the Anabaptistes doe to mainteine youre heresies by this pretensed conference of scripture not regarding that suche iudgement belongeth to the churche therefore I call yow and iustly terme you heretikes And as I doe reiect this conference that you talcke of because you vse it to that ende that these heretikes did so doe I refuse all suche scripture toe as is falsely wrested as was that whiche the diuell alleaged In whiche sense because Christe and his Apostles neuer alleaged anie I can not finde faulte with them I can not you saye deuise a waye that shoulde satisfye Nowell a. 20. all heretikes withoute all contradiction or exception on their parte I can deuise no waie in dede M. Nowell to satisfie al heretikes Dorman it passeth my power I cōfesse But God hathe deuised a waye to ouerthrowe all heresies if suche as you are woulde The way to ouerthrowe heresies be no let to his working And that is the thinge that ought to suffice vs. Will you knowe what waye it is Forsothe if this principle and grounde the which I labour to proue that Christes churche here in earthe being but one and visible hathe also one chiefe visible heade to rule and gouerne the same were thoroughly as it ought to be persuaded to all men then the heretike which nowe by coloured argumentes triumpheth ouer not onely the meaner sorte but also oftentimes many of the wiser and better learned the thinge called into question being either suche as is the question of baptising of infantes as whereof we haue no expresse scripture but onelye a tradition continued in the churche from the Apostles time and deliuered from hande to hande to vs either elles so perplexe and doubteful as the aduersarie will for his heresie bring not onely as many but mo textes also that shall seme to make for his purpose then shall the catholike as did the Arrian then shoulde I saye the heretike in al mens iudgemēt although neuer in his owne easely be discomfited and ouerthrowen For then let the Anabaptiste crie as muche as he woulde that the baptisme of infantes hathe no grounde of scripture the meanest man in a parishe woulde be able to tell him Sir the churche whiche I am bidden to giue eare to by the scripture vseth it and hathe done from the beginning this suffiseth me Againe let the Arrian bringe and heape together all the scripture that he hathe let him vse all his shiftes distinctions and gloses when he hathe all done the true catholike seketh after the interpretation of the churche that interpretation to witte that the membres agreing with the heade obserue and haue obserued vniuersally thoroughe out the whole worlde Thus if the more parte of men woulde doe as they ought neither woulde heretikes haue any list to publishe heresies their starting holes being by this wholesome remedie taken awaye neither shoulde they being brought furthe into the light be hable anie while to continue And this call I the ouerthrowing of heretikes and heresies For to persuade an indurat heretike by anye meanes I confesse it to be a thing impossible seing that not euerye man that is a true Christian can by conference of the scripture be by and by persuaded in all doubtes as you here vntruly saye he maye When partes be taken in opinions emongest learned men eache parte forcing the scriptures by conference and otherwise to make for that sense which he hathe conceiued is no man a true Christian but he that cā be satisfied in this case by the scripture Hath it not bene sene that the mainteiners of suche contrary opinions beinge for vertue and learning estemed of the worlde haue made also right good Christians to doubte And what case had Christe lefte vs in if in this perplexitie there were not a churche to directe vs if that churche had not a heade to speake to vs which being in S. Augustine and Prospers tyme Prosper lib. contra Collator cap. 10. Zozimus the Pope as you hearde before shewe vs nowe if you can why Pius the pope shoulde not be the lyke And thus you see M. Nowell I truste that you haue to muche abused bothe the Readers and me in labouring firste to persuade that I mislike the Scriptures whiche I doe in no sense or the conference thereof whiche I doe not simply but in this respecte that you contende that that waye alone is sufficient to ende all controuersies nexte in this that you altre my reason whiche is that because by this pretensed conference of youres heresies can neuer be ouerthrowen while by the subtilitye of heretikes alleaging scripture conferring scripture and that so probably that euen the best learned maye be shaken in their faithe and so heresie mainteined you make the same reason to be because there can no waye possibly be founde able to satisfie all frowarde heretikes Vppon this supposall of youres that I reiect this conference of scripture as no sufficient meane to ende all controuersies because it can not satisfie al men you aske this question And thinketh he that Popes of Rome men of suche lyfe suche Nowell b. 6. Holde the man a bowle for he will vomite partialitie suche ignorance such vntruthe such falsehode such bribery Simoniakes poisonners murtherers shal satisfie all men in all iudgementes of all causes and controuersies yea in their owne verye causes wherein they be parties and that without all exception The diuell they shall and that I may saye truly Non loqueris sed latras you speake not here M. Nowell Dorman but you barcke you reason not but you raile If all these faultes that you here heape together were in one pope at one time yeat shoulde they not be all any let why the same might not and shoulde not giue true iudgement and satisfie all good men To this I haue answered before where Cap. 3. fol. 8. b. 10 fol. 39. b. yow gaue me like occasion thither I remit the reader Yeat this I woulde faine knowe of yowe by the waie and desire yow when yow wright nexte to resolue me therein whether if these popes had the contraries to these vices that is so manie vertues yowe thinke they might giue true iudgement and satisfie all men If yow saie they could not what neded then this odiouse rehersall of so manie grieuouse faultes seing by no meanes they coulde If yowe saie that being good men they might then shewe scripture or bring reason to proue that this auctoritie is lost by euill manners In controuersies rising vpon the scripture the popes cause is not handled but gods and
addeth a cause whiche is Nowell fol. 107. a 10. the pyth of the matter saing thus Super illam petram aedificatem ecclesiam scio I knowe that vpon that rocke Peters chaire the churche is builded which is the cause why S. Hierome ioyned with Damasus will he saye Will you see what a perilouse brained man M. Nowell is Dorman He hathe readen my answere allready and can tell what it shall be before I vtter it the seconde time But you must giue him leaue sometimes to scoure his Rhetorike lest it wax rustye and therfore here vpon a brauery he setteth a lusty countenance vpon the matter and that which he knoweth can not be passed ouer in silence because it hathe bene moued allready he will so bring furthe the seconde time as though suche a pore catholike as I am had not had suche an obiection in store without I had first receiued it by his liberalitie euen as it were in the waye of all moise Yeat this I can not but mislike that as sone as he had giuen it it semeth that he wished that he had kepte it in his purse still for it foloweth But he maye be ashamed had he anie shame at all thus shamefully Nowell 14. by a false Parenthesis to intremingle these wordes Peters chaire in this sentence of S. Hierome and so to falsifie it as though S. Hierome had saide or ment in this place that the popes chaire is the rocke whereon the church is builded Well these be but wordes M. Nowell how proue yow Dorman that this is a false Parenthesis that S. Hierome ment not that the popes chaire as it is S. Peters chaire is the rocke whereō the churche is builded You re reasons to proue it folowe after that you haue charged me withe mangling of the sentence of S. Hierome in this wise For he did see that S. Hierome admonishing Damasus of humilitie Nowell b. 20. and withall professing him selfe to folowe no chiefe or heade but Christe not excepting Damasus case but rather affirming him not to be primum the chiefe maketh cleerely with vs who in this controuersie of the popes vsurped supremacy saie the same c. furthermore he did see that the wordes of S. Hierome folowing vpon this rocke I knowe the churche to be builded might and ought to be referred to Christe mentioned fol. 108. a. 1. by S. Hierome so nere before and by Petre confessed to be that rocke whereon the churche is builded and therefore M. Dorman left out of S. Hieromes sentence the mention of Christe that he might moste falsely and blasphemously refer the rocke to Peters chaire as though Peters rotten chaire or ruinouse Rome were the rocke whereon the churche of oure Sauioure Christe is builded You re proufes that this Parenthesis is false conteined Dorman in these wordes are two First because Hierome professed him selfe to folowe no chiefe or heade but Christe not excepting Damasus nexte because these wordes Vpon this rocke I knowe the churche to be builded ought to be referred to Christe c. as before To the firste I answere that you haue M. Nowell falsifieth S. Hierome in translating not delt honestlie and sincerely in translating the wordes nullum primum no chiefe or heade as though S. Hierome had bene of that opinion that he woulde professe him selfe to folow no other heade in earthe vnder Christe whiche if it had bene so howe agreeth this with youre owne He is contrary to him selfe wordes in this place that Damasus was S. Hieromes owne bishoppe If he were his bishop he was his chiefe or heade If he were his heade you will not I trust make him to mende youre owne cause a rebelliouse membre One of these two will folowe that either S. Hierome if youre translation were true condemneth all heades in earthe but onelye Christe or that he will obeye them as far as he list him selfe Is not this sincere handling trowe you of the fathers writinges Is not this wholesom doctrine that you woulde make them to be patrones of But I praie you that translate this worde nullum primum so diuersly three maner of waies in little more then the cōpasse of one leafe first interpreting it no chiefe or heade fol. 107. b. 5. lyne then in the same side 15. no chiefe heade Last of all fol. 108. b. 21. no heade tel vs when you write nexte to whiche of these interpretations you will stande For the second interpretation a man might graunte to you and without preiudice to vs or gaine to you For it is true in dede that in respecte of Christ there is no absolute chiefe heade but he the pope is but chiefe and supreme heade nexte vnder Christe Although this were not in this place the meaning of S. Hierome but only to signifie that nexte after Christe he ioyned him selfe to Peters chaire and that he folowed nullum primum nisi Christum none first but Christ as muche to saie as Christ first and Damasus of all other next after Youre nexte proufe that the worde rocke shoulde be referred to Christe and not to Peters chaire because Christe is mentioned so nere before and by Petre confessed to be that rocke whereon the churche is builded leaneth to a verie fickle and weake grounde and maketh me to thinke that at the leaste you nodded M. Nowell if you slepte not downe right when you wrote this For if you take the boke waking into youre hande once againe you shall I dare M. Nowell ouer throwen by his owne reason assure you finde that the worde Peters chaire is nearer to the worde rocke then is Christe so that by youre owne argument and reason it foloweth that the worde rocke shoulde be referred to Peters chaire placed so neare before Whereas you saye that Petre confessed Christe to be that rocke whereon the churche is builded where hathe Petre those wordes Note the place in youre nexte writing elles will it be thought that you make and coine scripture at your pleasure We denye not notwithstanding but that Christe is the rocke whereon the churche is builded although in Sainte Petre those words be not so to be found Yeat foloweth it not that therefore Peters chaire or Petre for bothe is here taken for one is not also the rocke whereon it is builded For Christe is Fundamentum primum maximum the chiefe and greatest fundation as witnesseth S. Augustine reconciling together these places of the scripture no man can In psalm 86. 1. Cor 3. Ephes 2. laye an other fundation then that which is layed which is Christe Iesus and this Builded vpon the fundation of the Apostles and prophetes and Petre is also a foundation nexte after Christe As to make the matter plaine by example if a man woulde builde a house vpon a rocke that rocke were the How Christ is the rocke and howe Peter chiefe and principall foundation for it hathe soliditie and strength of it selfe not of
currebant ego non mittebam Nowe seing the canon lawe helpeth Hier. cap. 23. you not yea seing it maketh directly against you as the whiche accounteth them headlesse that appointe heades to them selfe without the popes approbation seing at the lawes of the realme you finde as I heare saie as little grace seing that by the scriptures you are condemned for running not being sent what remaineth but to saye that the obeing of your Idoll bishoppes can not excuse you from being headlesse All this a doe hathe M. Dorman made nowe by the space of more Nowell fol. 114. a. 1. Clem. li. 3. Tit. 13. de censib exact cap. cum sit lib. 5. de verb. sig Tit. 10. ca. 1. Ex frequentib Dorman then three leaues to deface scripture as no fitte iudge in controuersies and to persuade vs that the pope like an other Pithagoras by his only bare worde maie and ought to satisfie all men heretikes and others and that it shal be sufficient for him only to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth sauing this reason only papae est pro ratione voluntas with the pope will standeth for reason as is mentioned in the boke of his owne canon lawe c. Not to deface the scripture M. Nowel haue I made al this a doe there you belye me but to deface heretikes while by this meanes it shall not be laufull for thē to peruert and corrupte it with their false and vntrue expositions The places that you bring out of the canon lawe to proue that it is sufficient for the pope to saye without reason of scripture why he so saieth are two but in neither of those places is that which you saye The first place speaketh of certeine priuileges which the pope for causes and considerations will not haue extendid to monasteries and churches after a certeine time Here saieth the glose vpon this place that the popes will in this case standeth for reason Againe in the seconde place which is not there where you falsely note it here in the margent to be but in the title de sententia excommunicat cap. si summus pontifex of the pope absoluing one excommunicate it saieth as muche but no where in the popes lawe is this odiouse saing of youres founde Loke therfore better bothe vpon the texte and the glose and learne to vnderstande them before you bring them nexte An answere to 8. demaundes made by M. Nowell touching the pope The 30. Chapitre THE FIRST what if there be two or three popes at once Is it not to be doubted which of them shall be this certeine iudge in cōtrouersies Nowell And is not the popish churche in this case in daunger to be a liue monstre as hauing manie heades If there shoulde be so manie popes at once as truly popes Dorman as you professe to haue of your church manie heades at once then should the church be not only in daunger but in deede a liue monstre as youre schismaticall churche is But whereas in truthe there is but one laufull pope it is in no suche daunger as yow fantasy not if there were ten that pretended euery of them right to the papacy If any suche chaunce happen we knowe it chaunceth by Goddes permission who as he hath hetherto so guided his churche that when the like hathe happened it neuer susteined thereby anie detriment in faithe so are we by his promise assured who promised neuer to forsake his churche that he will in no wise permitte in this doubtefull time anye such cōtrouersie to be moued as that maye not withoute the detriment of his church remaine in suspense vntil suche time as God haue reuealed the right iudge and true pope What if there be neuer a pope at all Shall all oure doubtes lye Nowell b. 25. therewhile vndiscussed for lacke of a iudge and youre popishe church so longe two or three yeares together lye as a dead troncke for lacke of an heade If your doubtes be suche as the vsage of the churche the Dorman consent of all nations be not able to explicate then is there no other remedie but by praier to desire allmightye God to kepe from vs no longre this necessarie meane appointed by him in earthe to signifie to vs his holye will and pleasure The churche is not in the meane season a deade troncke no more then one of youre particuler churches is when the bishop dieth For euen as there although not in all thinges the Chapitre supplieth the lacke of the bishop in many so the See of Rome being voide by deathe hathe a graue Senate that supplieth althoughe not in defining of controuersies yeat in manie thinges that want of the heade I trust when the generall heade of the church of England in earthe dieth you will not call your church a deade troncke VVhat if the pope sitte not at Rome in Italie May we not doubt Nowell of the certeintie of the iudge not sitting in the chaire whereof he hath all his certeintie The pope hathe not his certeintie of Peters materiall Dorman chaire but of the auctoritie and power giuen to Petre the signe whereof the chaire is And therefore you nede not to trouble youre selfe with that care whether he sitte in the verye same chaire that Petre did or in some other whether he sit at Auinion in Fraunce or Toletum in Spaine he is allwaies bishoppe of Rome and successour to Petre. And as we saie where the kinge is there is the courte so where the pope sitteth there is Peters chaire to saye Petres auctoritye VVhat if he doe erre VVhat if he be an heretike Nowell The pope maye haue his priuate and personall errours Dorman it can not be denied God onely and not man is priuileaged that he can not so erre But in determining any matter of faithe or deliuering any doctrine to the whole churche he that is the chiefe heade of his churche will neuer suffer him so to erre And therefore I saye with S. Augustine that August epist 165. his misdoinges doe not preiudice the churche If it woulde please you M. Nowell to become scholer to those that you call my maisters as for anie greate learning that you haue showen in this Reproufe of youres it might beseeme you well enough Pighius and Hosius in them shoulde you learne Lib. 4. eccles hierarch cap. 8. Lib. 2. contra Brent folio 83. sequent that all youre companions be not hable to conuince so muche as one pope emongest so manie as haue bene to be an heretike But let that be as doubtefull as this is moste certeine that there was neuer yeat anye pope that gaue in any matter of faithe an hereticall sentence And therfore you are much to blame to conceiue of Goddes prouidence for his churche any such dispaire not being hable for all the time past to shewe so muche as one example of that whiche you captiously demaunde VVhat if