that_o therefore_o that_o government_n which_o be_v more_o general_o establish_v and_o practise_v in_o the_o world_n shall_v be_v that_o specifical_a government_n whereby_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v govern_v a._n s._n neither_o intend_v i_o to_o infer_v or_o conclude_v any_o such_o thing_n only_o i_o say_v that_o whatever_o the_o assembly_n conclude_v or_o the_o parliament_n establish_v in_o the_o state_n yet_o according_a to_o god_n word_n plurality_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n or_o government_n can_v no_o way_n be_v conclude_v or_o establish_v and_o consequent_o you_o go_v against_o god_n word_n in_o plead_v for_o it_o and_o therefore_o all_o be_v lose_v that_o you_o build_v thereupon_o i_o can_v better_o answer_v your_o compare_v of_o i_o with_o herod_n then_o to_o slight_v it_o with_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o overflowing_n of_o your_o call_n one_o good_a argument_n will_v help_v your_o cause_n more_o than_o a_o hundred_o injury_n be_v this_o the_o independent_a power_n of_o piety_n you_o talk_v so_o much_o of_o unto_o m._n s._n his_o 2._o answer_v i_o grant_v he_o that_o before_o he_o and_o his_o colleague_n be_v sufficient_o inform_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o any_o government_n that_o in_o god_n mercy_n shall_v be_v establish_v they_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o obey_v much_o less_o ought_v they_o to_o be_v scourge_v as_o he_o speak_v but_o when_o they_o be_v sufficient_o inform_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o it_o i_o mean_v sufficientiâ_fw-la morali_fw-la which_o be_v all_o that_o man_n can_v furnish_v they_o but_o not_o physicâ_fw-la which_o be_v only_o in_o god_n hand_n they_o must_v obey_v and_o no_o way_n plead_v with_o all_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n non-conviction_n and_o pretend_a conscience_n and_o toleration_n and_o want_v of_o authority_n in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o punish_v they_o they_o must_v obey_v as_o well_o as_o the_o false_a prophet_n and_o schismatic_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n m.s._n 3._o answ_n the_o servant_n of_o christ_n shall_v not_o fall_v foul_a for_o uniformity_n in_o discipline_n and_o the_o great_a eat_v up_o the_o less_o god_n have_v provide_v other_o mean_n a._n s._n if_o divers_a discipline_n be_v establish_v by_o law_n the_o good_a minister_n must_v tolerate_v that_o which_o they_o can_v mend_v and_o serve_v themselves_o of_o all_o the_o mean_n they_o can_v according_a to_o god_n word_n to_o reduce_v their_o brethren_n to_o the_o right_a way_n but_o if_o they_o be_v not_o yet_o establish_v none_o but_o one_o shall_v be_v approve_v by_o the_o servant_n of_o god_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o imitation_n of_o moses_n or_o rather_o of_o god_n be_v bind_v in_o duty_n only_o to_o admit_v one_o and_o that_o the_o most_o conform_a to_o scripture_n unless_o he_o will_v bring_v in_o faction_n and_o schism_n both_o into_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n and_o that_o principal_o when_o any_o of_o they_o may_v be_v dangerous_a for_o both_o as_o independency_n which_o may_v prove_v more_o dangerous_a than_o seven_o heresy_n but_o in_o all_o this_o m.s._n answer_v not_o my_o argument_n formal_o but_o most_o ridiculous_o grant_v the_o premise_n and_o deni_v the_o conclusion_n a._n s._n 15._o neither_o christ_n nor_o his_o apostle_n ever_o grant_v any_o toleration_n to_o divers_a sect_n and_o government_n in_o the_o church_n wherefore_o then_o will_v you_o be_v suitor_n for_o that_o which_o they_o never_o grant_v m._n s._n here_o neither_o deni_v the_o antecedent_n nor_o the_o consequence_n of_o this_o my_o argument_n but_o sing_v his_o old_a song_n that_o neither_o christ_n nor_o his_o apostle_n do_v ever_o grant_v a_o power_n to_o a_o major_a part_n of_o profossour_n in_o a_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n to_o grind_v the_o face_n of_o their_o brethren_n either_o because_o they_o can_v not_o conform_v their_o judgement_n with_o they_o or_o because_o they_o keep_v a_o good_a conscience_n a._n s._n 1._o we_o grant_v you_o all_o that_o 2._o neither_o be_v your_o face_n grind_v 3._o much_o less_o grind_v for_o non-conformitie_n of_o your_o judgement_n with_o they_o or_o keep_v of_o a_o good_a conscience_n 4._o your_o conscience_n be_v very_o ill_a that_o will_v not_o be_v inform_v of_o the_o truth_n 5._o we_o have_v tell_v you_o that_o anabaptist_n separatist_n and_o other_o like_a unto_o you_o pretend_v the_o same_o thing_n 6._o you_o furnish_v we_o here_o a_o argument_n against_o new-england_n man_n in_o their_o proceed_n with_o godly_a minister_n here_o 7._o live_v quiet_o and_o trouble_v not_o the_o church_n nor_o the_o state_n and_o you_o may_v live_v here_o a_o peaceable_a life_n without_o any_o trouble_n to_o your_o conscience_n 8._o but_o it_o be_v a_o foolery_n in_o you_o to_o think_v that_o your_o face_n be_v grind_v because_o your_o brethren_n will_v not_o consent_v that_o you_o erect_v a_o sect_n &_o have_v pulpit_n allow_v you_o to_o beat_v down_o the_o truth_n they_o be_v bind_v in_o conscience_n to_o resist_v you_o as_o you_o take_v yourselves_o bind_v to_o resist_v they_o 9_o if_o you_o think_v your_o face_n grind_v here_o you_o may_v be_v go_v and_o live_v in_o contentment_n there_o from_o whence_o you_o come_v 10._o and_o yet_o howbeit_o your_o brethren_n of_o the_o ministeris_n take_v not_o upon_o themselves_o any_o thing_n but_o to_o resist_v you_o with_o the_o arm_n of_o the_o spirit_n yet_o must_v you_o think_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v no_o less_o power_n over_o you_o here_o than_o your_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v over_o sectary_n in_o new-england_n 11._o but_o it_o be_v better_o for_o you_o brethren_n to_o take_v a_o resolution_n to_o live_v with_o we_o in_o unity_n under_o such_o a_o discipline_n as_o may_v be_v conclude_v and_o settle_v in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n but_o can_v you_o live_v in_o this_o world_n unless_o you_o give_v a_o law_n to_o all_o the_o world_n what_o you_o say_v of_o presbyterian_o in_o assume_v of_o something_o imperious_a etc._n etc._n be_v but_o a_o calumny_n m.s._n 2._o answer_n my_o argument_n with_o a_o question_n whence_o we_o have_v a_o toleration_n of_o our_o presbyterian_a discipline_n a._n s._n 1._o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n in_o philosophy_n that_o questio_fw-la questionem_fw-la non_fw-la solvit_fw-la one_o question_n solve_v not_o another_o 2._o i_o answer_v that_o we_o have_v its_o institution_n from_o god_n in_o his_o word_n as_o we_o have_v already_o demonstrate_v it_o and_o he_o in_o institute_v of_o it_o have_v ordain_v that_o it_o be_v not_o only_o tolerate_v but_o also_o receive_v and_o preach_v through_o all_o the_o world_n as_o i_o have_v already_o prove_v 3._o in_o france_n it_o be_v bring_v in_o by_o christ_n minister_n establish_v by_o a_o protestant_a king_n and_o some_o other_o before_o he_o who_o have_v some_o taste_n of_o the_o gospel_n 4._o it_o have_v be_v there_o establish_v by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o the_o protestant_a army_n which_o god_n bless_v under_o a_o protestant_a king_n against_o the_o pope_n the_o papist_n and_o jesuit_n who_o will_v have_v pull_v the_o crown_n off_o his_o head_n to_o set_v it_o upon_o don_n philip_n that_o so_o fight_v for_o his_o crown_n he_o may_v also_o fight_v for_o that_o of_o christ_n jesus_n and_o establish_v it_o glorious_o in_o his_o kingdom_n and_o all_o this_o may_v be_v easy_o confirm_v by_o the_o french_a history_n and_o sundry_a edict_n in_o favour_n of_o protestant_n it_o be_v a_o untruth_n that_o ever_o it_o be_v tolerate_v by_o the_o romish_a church_n for_o they_o employ_v all_o their_o endeavour_n to_o oppress_v it_o yea_o against_o all_o law_n they_o be_v bind_v to_o their_o king_n who_o be_v also_o bind_v to_o they_o for_o fight_v for_o his_o cause_n in_o england_n it_o be_v establish_v as_o i_o have_v sundry_a time_n tell_v you_o in_o the_o french_a dutch_a italian_a and_o spanish_a church_n by_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n authority_n and_o how_o it_o have_v be_v establish_v in_o scotland_n it_o be_v better_a know_v than_o i_o can_v declare_v it_o viz._n by_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n m._n s._n his_o 3._o answer_v or_o objection_n against_o my_o reason_n come_v to_o this_o that_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n papist_n will_v not_o tolerate_v protestant_n who_o they_o hold_v for_o schismatic_n a.s._n 1_o this_o be_v only_o say_v but_o not_o prove_v 2._o they_o neither_o tolerate_v heretic_n nor_o schismatic_n when_o they_o can_v hinder_v they_o 3._o the_o papist_n hold_v not_o we_o simple_o for_o schismatic_n but_o also_o for_o heretic_n 4._o and_o consequent_o if_o your_o argument_n hold_v that_o we_o must_v tolerate_v whatsoever_o they_o tolerate_v since_o they_o tolerate_v we_o in_o quality_n of_o heretic_n in_o their_o judgement_n we_o must_v also_o tolerate_v heretic_n yea_o jew_n also_o and_o permit_v they_o synagogue_n as_o they_o do_v yea_o we_o must_v tolerate_v a_o hundred_o religion_n as_o
of_o the_o presbyterian_a remedy_n against_o such_o mischief_n or_o of_o the_o mischief_n itself_o for_o we_o must_v never_o in_o any_o case_n accept_v of_o malum_fw-la culpae_fw-la such_o as_o be_v the_o acceptation_n of_o apostasy_n or_o heresy_n in_o a_o whole_a church_n 4._o neither_o be_v there_o any_o nor_o have_v you_o yet_o show_v any_o inconveniency_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n but_o we_o have_v show_v many_o as_o real_a in_o the_o independent_a way_n as_o those_o be_v imaginary_a that_o you_o attribute_v to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n 5._o all_o the_o inconveniency_n that_o this_o man_n pretend_v to_o be_v in_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n be_v dependency_n of_o particular_a congregation_n upon_o superior_a assembly_n viz._n class_n synod_n etc._n etc._n or_o subordination_n among_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n for_o this_o sect_n must_v be_v altogether_o independent_a and_o every_o one_o in_o their_o church_n supreme_a ecclesiastical_a judge_n and_o their_o church_n supreme_a ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n be_v they_o never_o so_o heretical_a or_o profane_a but_o this_o inconveniency_n may_v be_v press_v home_o again_o 1._o for_o there_o be_v subordination_n among_o their_o particular_a congregation_n and_o their_o synod_n only_o they_o hate_v the_o authority_n of_o synod_n 2._o there_o be_v a_o subordination_n of_o authority_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n 3._o so_o be_v there_o in_o civil_a government_n and_o whatsoever_o inconveniency_n they_o press_v against_o we_o it_o will_v hold_v in_o all_o the_o rest_n as_o we_o shall_v see_v hereafter_o god_n will_v 4._o if_o such_o a_o dependency_n or_o subordination_n be_v any_o inconveniency_n than_o god_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o it_o as_o we_o have_v heretofore_o full_o demonstrate_v it_o m._n s._n delinquency_n of_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o a_o every_o day_n case_n no_o more_o in_o the_o way_n of_o congregationall_a then_o of_o presbyterial_a government_n a._n s._n 1._o it_o may_v be_v as_o ordinary_a a_o case_n in_o the_o church_n as_o that_o of_o inferior_a judicatories_n in_o the_o state_n 2._o and_o it_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o arminian_o and_o we_o 3._o so_o do_v it_o among_o your_o church_n in_o holland_n 4._o so_o do_v it_o betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o since_o you_o be_v become_v sectary_n 5._o so_o do_v it_o among_o all_o church_n that_o become_v heretical_a or_o schismatical_a and_o the_o orthodox_n church_n and_o the_o apostle_n tell_v we_o that_o there_o must_v be_v heresy_n 1_o cor._n 11.19_o so_o it_o be_v not_o so_o extraordinary_a a_o case_n as_o you_o m._n s._n make_v it_o and_o therefore_o there_o must_v be_v a_o ecclesiastical_a ordinance_n for_o it_o as_o well_o in_o the_o church_n as_o in_o the_o state_n 1._o unless_o you_o say_v that_o god_n be_v more_o provident_a for_o the_o state_n then_o for_o the_o church_n or_o more_o negligent_a in_o his_o care_n of_o the_o church_n then_o of_o the_o state_n 2._o there_o be_v a_o remedy_n for_o such_o case_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o i_o show_v you_o in_o my_o annotation_n wherefore_o not_o also_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n 3._o howbeit_o it_o be_v not_o a_o every_o day_n case_n yet_o the_o independent_o have_v a_o remedy_n for_o it_o viz._n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n whereof_o i_o may_v say_v as_o much_o as_o he_o say_v of_o excommunication_n for_o the_o independent_a church_n can_v not_o pronounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n unless_o they_o have_v or_o pretend_v to_o have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n to_o do_v it_o for_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n 4._o it_o be_v or_o may_v be_v more_o ordinary_a among_o the_o independent_a church_n then_o among_o we_o 1._o because_o of_o their_o independency_n and_o want_v of_o superior_a ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o keep_v they_o in_o order_n 2._o because_o they_o tie_v the_o member_n of_o their_o church_n never_o to_o quit_v they_o without_o the_o church_n consent_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n which_o may_v breed_v quarrel_n betwixt_o two_o church_n if_o a_o member_n of_o the_o one_o without_o her_o consent_n join_v himself_o to_o the_o other_o 3._o and_o this_o may_v be_v confirm_v by_o the_o example_n of_o those_o most_o bitter_a quarrel_n betwixt_o two_o of_o your_o church_n and_o their_o pastor_n in_o holland_n as_o it_o be_v relate_v by_o master_n edward_n in_o his_o antapologia_fw-la but_o according_a to_o ordinary_a providence_n no_o such_o thing_n can_v fall_v out_o among_o our_o church_n and_o if_o it_o shall_v fall_v out_o we_o have_v a_o present_a remedy_n viz._n a_o class_n which_o may_v be_v gather_v within_o the_o space_n of_o four_o or_o five_o day_n if_o that_o do_v not_o the_o business_n we_o may_v gather_v a_o synod_n or_o a_o superior_a power_n which_o can_v moral_o be_v contemn_v among_o we_o by_o any_o inferior_a power_n as_o the_o equal_a power_n of_o independent_a church_n may_v by_o their_o equal_a if_o it_o fall_v out_o extraordinary_o among_o we_o we_o have_v a_o ordinary_a remedy_n for_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o howbeit_o it_o be_v extraordinary_a and_o very_o rare_a yet_o shall_v there_o be_v a_o remedy_n provide_v for_o it_o so_o soon_o as_o once_o it_o fall_v out_o for_o it_o be_v a_o case_n that_o bring_v a_o very_a great_a mischief_n with_o it_o viz._n the_o revoult_n of_o a_o church_n or_o many_o church_n that_o be_v a_o inconvenience_n yea_o a_o mischief_n a_o thousand_o time_n worse_o howbeit_o it_o shall_v fall_v out_o but_o once_o in_o a_o age_n than_o all_o the_o dropping_n of_o master_n goodwin_n or_o all_o the_o inconvenience_n that_o can_v be_v allege_v against_o a_o constant_a remedy_n be_v they_o as_o real_a as_o they_o be_v fictitious_a and_o imaginary_a three_o m._n s._n answer_v my_o first_o argument_n they_o that_o implead_v the_o congregationall_a way_n for_o be_v defective_a suppose_v that_o god_n have_v put_v a_o sufficiency_n of_o power_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o man_n to_o remedy_v all_o possible_a defect_n error_n and_o miscarriage_n of_o man_n whatsoever_o but_o that_o be_v untrue_a ergo._n a._n s._n i_o answer_v they_o suppose_v not_o that_o god_n have_v put_v into_o their_o hand_n a_o sufficiency_n of_o power_n to_o remedy_v all_o defect_n and_o miscarriage_n whatsoever_o or_o all_o possible_a absolute_o but_o ex_fw-la suppositione_n finis_fw-la obtinendi_fw-la i._n e._n that_o may_v conduce_v to_o obtain_v the_o end_n that_o god_n have_v command_v we_o to_o intend_v and_o to_o tend_v unto_o for_o since_o his_o will_n be_v that_o spiritual_a disease_n be_v cure_v it_o must_v consequent_o be_v to_o give_v the_o remedy_n necessary_a or_o sufficient_a to_o obtain_v such_o a_o end_n or_o cure_v 2._o i_o suppose_v not_o that_o god_n have_v give_v we_o all_o mean_n sufficient_a physicè_fw-la but_o moraliter_fw-la i._n e._n that_o be_v moral_o sufficient_a and_o whereby_o moral_o we_o may_v be_v convict_v of_o sin_n if_o we_o use_v they_o not_o as_o cure_v of_o our_o ill_n if_o we_o use_v they_o 3._o i_o suppose_v that_o they_o must_v be_v sufficient_a according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n whereby_o he_o govern_v ordinary_o his_o church_n and_o not_o absolute_o 4._o as_o sufficient_a as_o in_o the_o civil_a state_n or_o as_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n at_o least_o since_o the_o government_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v as_o perfect_v as_o in_o the_o old_a and_o not_o simple_o or_o absolute_o and_o so_o the_o assumption_n be_v false_a m._n s._n prove_v that_o this_o inconveniency_n press_v as_o well_o the_o presbyterian_o as_o the_o independent_o if_o your_o supreme_a session_n of_o presbytery_n shall_v miscarry_v say_v he_o and_o give_v we_o hay_n stubble_n and_o wood_n instead_o of_o silver_n and_o gold_n what_o remedy_n a._n s._n this_o be_v a_o very_a extraordinary_a case_n yea_o the_o most_o extraordinary_a that_o can_v be_v imagine_v viz._n that_o all_o the_o church_n both_o in_o superior_a and_o inferior_a judicatories_n shall_v so_o miscarry_v and_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n have_v use_v all_o possible_a mean_n and_o this_o miscarry_v also_o which_o be_v more_o than_o any_o ordinary_a case_n we_o may_v say_v 1._o that_o we_o have_v have_v all_o mean_n that_o be_v moral_o possible_a and_o that_o no_o more_o can_v moral_o be_v desire_v 2._o we_o have_v have_v all_o the_o mean_n and_o if_o we_o serve_v ourselves_o of_o they_o all_o till_o we_o come_v to_o this_o extraordinary_a case_n we_o be_v excusable_a 3._o we_o have_v have_v all_o the_o mean_n possible_a according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n 4._o all_o mean_n that_o they_o have_v in_o the_o old_a testament_n or_o that_o they_o have_v in_o the_o state_n 5._o i_o answer_v that_o this_o supposition_n may_v as_o well_o be_v propound_v against_o god_n providence_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o state_n and_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o against_o that_o
to_o refuse_v you_o neither_o can_v a_o negative_a thesis_n be_v otherways_o prove_v but_o by_o a_o medium_fw-la that_o be_v repugnant_a either_o to_o the_o attribute_n or_o to_o the_o subject_a of_o the_o question_n so_o this_o your_o censure_n be_v very_o ridiculous_a absurd_a and_o impertinent_a 2._o i_o have_v prove_v it_o to_o be_v conform_a to_o god_n word_n 3._o it_o be_v not_o credible_a but_o that_o government_n be_v most_o convenient_a to_o god_n word_n which_o be_v most_o convenient_a and_o commensurate_a unto_o the_o end_n that_o god_n command_v we_o to_o intend_v and_o to_o tend_v into_o neither_o can_v i_o believe_v that_o god_n have_v ordain_v we_o any_o mean_n that_o be_v not_o fit_a and_o proper_a for_o the_o end_n that_o he_o intend_v or_o command_v we_o to_o intend_v for_o that_o be_v repugnant_a to_o his_o sovereign_a wisdom_n 4._o and_o as_o for_o your_o example_n they_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o all_o these_o fact_n of_o saul_n vzzah_n etc._n etc._n be_v contrary_a to_o god_n express_v command_v neither_o be_v they_o convenient_a to_o the_o end_n intend_v by_o god_n or_o that_o we_o shall_v tend_v unto_o viz._n filial_a obedience_n to_o the_o command_n and_o the_o typify_a of_o christ_n and_o his_o benefit_n the_o example_n of_o saint_n peter_n be_v 1._o a_o manifest_a breach_n of_o the_o six_o commandment_n in_o kill_v a_o man_n without_o public_a authority_n 2._o it_o employ_v a_o act_n of_o diffidence_n and_o of_o too_o great_a confidence_n as_o if_o christ_n have_v have_v no_o other_o mean_n to_o deliver_v himself_o but_o his_o sword_n in_o this_o peter_n trust_v too_o much_o to_o his_o own_o sword_n and_o too_o little_a to_o god_n providence_n 3._o it_o contain_v a_o act_n of_o precipitation_n and_o too_o great_a boldness_n and_o rashness_n in_o draw_v his_o sword_n in_o his_o master_n presence_n without_o yea_o against_o his_o master_n will_v and_o command_v 4._o it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o end_n for_o which_o christ_n come_v into_o the_o word_n viz._n christ_n death_n and_o the_o redemption_n of_o mankind_n by_o it_o whereof_o peter_n before_o that_o time_n have_v be_v so_o oft_o advertise_v etc._n etc._n so_o be_v it_o not_o in_o presbyterial_a discipline_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o damnable_a error_n or_o heresy_n in_o consistoriall_a government_n as_o in_o the_o papacy_n we_o say_v not_o that_o any_o of_o our_o assembly_n be_v infallible_a as_o the_o pope_n pretend_v himself_o and_o his_o general_n council_n to_o be_v neither_o pretend_v we_o that_o our_o assembly_n have_v any_o despoticall_a or_o lordly_a domination_n over_o the_o church_n as_o the_o pope_n do_v we_o say_v not_o that_o our_o assembly_n be_v above_o god_n word_n as_o they_o do_v these_o comparison_n of_o m._n s._n be_v no_o less_o than_o blasphemous_a and_o here_o i_o must_v advertise_v the_o reader_n that_o all_o the_o presbyterial_a assembly_n together_o take_v no_o great_a authority_n over_o the_o church_n than_o six_o or_o seven_o independent_a tinker_n a_o hangman_n with_o they_o together_o with_o one_o of_o their_o minister_n do_v over_o the_o flock_n the_o independent_a preacher_n with_o his_o six_o or_o seven_o person_n be_v like_a to_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o consistory_n of_o his_o cardinal_n because_o of_o their_o independency_n than_o any_o of_o our_o church_n which_o be_v all_o dependent_n and_o subject_a to_o superior_a authority_n m._n s._n pag._n 79._o §_o in_o his_o second_o answer_n tell_v i_o that_o he_o can_v inform_v himself_o 1._o what_o a._n s._n mean_n by_o authoritative_a power_n 2._o or_o from_o whence_o our_o church_n have_v it_o a._n s._n i_o have_v 1_o full_o declare_v in_o my_o annotation_n and_o here_o above_o what_o it_o be_v 2._o and_o from_o whence_o it_o proceed_v it_o be_v a_o ministerial_a power_n to_o command_v such_o as_o be_v subject_a thereunto_o which_o bind_v or_o oblige_v they_o to_o obedience_n and_o whereby_o in_o case_n of_o disobedience_n they_o may_v inflict_v spiritual_a punishment_n it_o be_v of_o god_n or_o from_o god_n and_o therefore_o lawful_a now_o whether_o it_o be_v of_o god_n as_o author_n of_o nature_n or_o of_o grace_n by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n or_o any_o positive_a law_n natural_a or_o supernatural_a it_o be_v not_o a_o question_n de_fw-fr re_fw-mi sed_fw-la de_fw-la modo_fw-la rei_fw-la not_o of_o the_o thing_n itself_o but_o of_o the_o manner_n thereof_o grant_v i_o either_o that_o it_o be_v lawful_a or_o deny_v it_o if_o it_o be_v a_o lawful_a power_n it_o be_v of_o god_n for_o there_o be_v no_o lawful_a power_n but_o of_o god_n rom._n 13.2_o grant_v i_o the_o thing_n and_o afterward_o i_o shall_v dispute_v with_o you_o de_fw-fr modo_fw-la rei_fw-la they_o have_v it_o not_o of_o the_o parliament_n nor_o of_o the_o state_n as_o you_o pretend_v for_o secular_a man_n can_v give_v any_o spiritual_a power_n into_o the_o church_n they_o have_v it_o of_o god_n and_o by_o god_n word_n directè_fw-la or_o per_fw-la consequentiam_fw-la and_o in_o some_o thing_n per_fw-la non_fw-la repugnantiam_fw-la it_o be_v a_o untruth_n in_o m._n s._n in_o his_o three_o answer_n whereas_o he_o say_v that_o i_o seem_v to_o imply_v that_o the_o church_n have_v this_o power_n from_o the_o law_n of_o the_o state_n for_o howbeit_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n by_o his_o law_n put_v a_o political_a obligation_n upon_o christian_n to_o obey_v the_o church_n spiritual_a authority_n which_o be_v from_o god_n yet_o be_v not_o his_o civil_a authority_n the_o cause_n of_o the_o church_n spiritual_a authority_n or_o of_o the_o obligation_n whereby_o a_o christian_a be_v bind_v to_o obey_v the_o church_n for_o howbeit_o there_o be_v no_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o howbeit_o he_o shall_v dissent_v from_o such_o a_o obedience_n yet_o shall_v the_o church_n have_v spiritual_a power_n and_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n in_o a_o spiritual_a way_n shall_v be_v bind_v to_o obedience_n but_o what_o then_o do_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n law_n answ_n it_o put_v a_o new_a bond_n or_o obligation_n upon_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o bind_v they_o again_o by_o a_o civil_a authority_n extrinsecall_v to_o the_o church_n to_o a_o spiritual_a obedience_n who_o heretofore_o be_v only_o bind_v by_o a_o spiritual_a obligation_n so_o he_o bind_v they_o to_o a_o spiritual_a obedience_n but_o not_o spiritual_o as_o the_o church_n authority_n do_v but_o only_o material_o and_o that_o by_o civil_a authority_n so_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n or_o rather_o god_n by_o they_o oblige_v and_o bind_v the_o subject_n in_o the_o state_n in_o a_o spiritual_a way_n by_o god_n word_n to_o obey_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o political_a and_o civil_a obedience_n but_o not_o political_o or_o civil_o but_o spiritual_o so_o it_o follow_v not_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v power_n to_o form_v ecclesiastical_a government_n only_o it_o follow_v that_o in_o a_o political_a way_n he_o may_v oblige_v or_o bind_v man_n to_o obey_v it_o no_o more_o follow_v it_o that_o i_o resolve_v church_n government_n into_o the_o humour_n will_n and_o pleasure_n of_o the_o world_n etc._n etc._n only_o it_o follow_v that_o the_o civil_a obligation_n lay_v upon_o man_n to_o obey_v the_o church_n so_o far_o forth_o as_o civil_a must_v be_v final_o resolve_v into_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n and_o not_o into_o his_o humour_n as_o m._n s._n most_o contemptuous_o speak_v of_o he_o m._n s._n his_o four_o answer_n be_v in_o retort_v my_o argument_n 1._o what_o if_o a_o particular_a congregation_n under_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o your_o eldership_n reflect_v upon_o the_o oath_n or_o covenant_n it_o have_v take_v for_o subjection_n thereunto_o as_o likewise_o upon_o all_o other_o engagement_n that_o way_n as_o unlawful_a shall_v peremptory_o refuse_v to_o stand_v to_o the_o award_v or_o determination_n of_o it_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o this_o case_n will_v you_o excommunicate_v this_o church_n the_o apologist_n in_o their_o way_n do_v little_o less_o or_o will_v you_o deliver_v they_o brachio_n seculari_fw-la to_o be_v hamper_v and_o teach_v better_a than_o it_o seem_v you_o can_v teach_v they_o by_o prison_n fine_n banishment_n etc._n etc._n church_n have_v need_n take_v heed_n how_o they_o choose_v man_n for_o their_o guardian_n that_o will_v so_o dispose_v of_o they_o if_o they_o please_v they_o not_o 2._o and_o what_o if_o in_o the_o session_n of_o your_o combine_a eldership_n there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o plurality_n of_o vote_n concern_v the_o excommunication_n of_o such_o a_o church_n be_v not_o the_o remedy_n you_o speak_v of_o now_o in_o the_o dust_n a._n s._n to_o the_o first_o quaere_fw-la i_o answer_v that_o we_o must_v do_v by_o spiritual_a power_n in_o the_o church_n that_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n do_v by_o the_o secular_a power_n in_o the_o
state_n in_o such_o a_o case_n 2._o the_o minister_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n must_v proceed_v spiritual_o against_o all_o delinquent_n and_o impenitent_a person_n as_o the_o minister_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n do_v against_o they_o according_a to_o god_n word_n unless_o such_o a_o proceed_n by_o abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n 3._o they_o must_v do_v as_o m._n s._n have_v teach_v we_o as_o they_o do_v against_o particular_a person_n in_o commensurate_v the_o punishment_n to_o the_o sin_n i_o e._n they_o must_v proceed_v by_o particular_a admonition_n and_o censure_n against_o lesser_a sin_n in_o private_a or_o before_o the_o presbytery_n by_o suspension_n from_o the_o lord_n table_n against_o great_a sin_n by_o public_a suspension_n or_o lesser_a excommunication_n against_o great_a sin_n and_o by_o the_o great_a excommunication_n against_o the_o great_a sin_n 4._o m._n s._n confess_v that_o the_o apologist_n in_o their_o way_n do_v little_o less_o a._n s._n if_o so_o than_o they_o do_v a_o little_a worse_o than_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o so_o they_o quit_v a_o little_a m._n s._n his_o own_o rule_n whereby_o he_o will_v they_o to_o proceed_v as_o against_o particular_a person_n 5._o if_o all_o this_o suffice_v not_o it_o be_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n part_v to_o proceed_v against_o they_o as_o troubler_n of_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o christian_a state_n and_o not_o to_o permit_v they_o to_o erect_v a_o new_a sect_n as_o it_o be_v ordinary_o practise_v among_o the_o independent_o of_o new_a england_n 6._o they_o must_v be_v punish_v for_o their_o perjury_n and_o for_o the_o breach_n of_o their_o covenant_n but_o none_o of_o those_o punishment_n can_v be_v inflict_v but_o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n at_o least_o moral_o in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la and_o such_o punishment_n be_v the_o fit_a for_o they_o after_o such_o a_o conviction_n when_o they_o pertinacious_o resist_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n for_o such_o man_n fear_v more_o the_o gibbet_n than_o hell-fire_n what_o you_o say_v of_o your_o second_o chapter_n it_o be_v sufficient_o answer_v what_o you_o say_v of_o church_n that_o they_o have_v need_v to_o take_v heed_n how_o they_o choose_v man_n for_o their_o guardian_n etc._n etc._n if_o by_o those_o guardian_n you_o mean_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n it_o be_v not_o wise_o say_v of_o you_o if_o church-minister_n they_o must_v choose_v such_o as_o will_v delate_v pertinacious_a sinner_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o your_o second_o question_n what_o if_o in_o the_o session_n etc._n etc._n answ_n 1._o what_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o your_o assembly_n or_o synod_n 2._o if_o it_o be_v any_o inferior_a ecclesiastical_a judicatory_a they_o must_v remit_v it_o to_o a_o superior_a ever_o till_o they_o come_v to_o some_o wherein_o the_o vote_n may_v preponderate_v and_o if_o in_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a viz._n in_o a_o nationall_n assembly_n the_o vote_n preponderate_v not_o concern_v the_o excommunication_n of_o such_o a_o church_n which_o be_v very_o extraordinary_a she_o can_v be_v excommunicate_v and_o yet_o if_o her_o opinion_n or_o sin_n be_v condemn_v the_o combine_a eldership_n may_v inflict_v some_o lesser_a spiritual_a punishment_n and_o if_o such_o a_o church_n continue_v still_o pertinacious_a the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v proceed_v against_o she_o in_o a_o civil_a way_n as_o we_o have_v say_v neither_o be_v this_o a_o compliance_n with_o papist_n in_o quality_n of_o papist_n but_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o agree_v with_o scripture_n 1._o for_o so_o proceed_v the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n 2._o so_o proceed_v the_o church_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n in_o the_o time_n of_o good_a emperor_n as_o under_o constantine_n the_o great_a theodosius_n etc._n etc._n 3._o so_o proceed_v they_o at_o geneva_n 4._o so_o in_o the_o netherlands_o 5._o so_o the_o independent_o of_o new-england_n 6._o so_o shall_v m.s._n rather_o do_v then_o to_o tolerate_v open_a blasphemer_n of_o the_o bless_a name_n of_o god_n 7._o dare_v thou_o m._n s._n so_o open_o plead_v in_o favour_n of_o paganism_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o heresy_n and_o mischief_n and_o for_o all_o sort_n of_o impunity_n for_o they_o all_o 8._o the_o truth_n fall_v not_o to_o the_o dust_n in_o such_o a_o case_n but_o sin_n be_v punish_v but_o not_o in_o such_o a_o degree_n as_o it_o shall_v be_v to_o the_o second_o inconveniency_n that_o i_o object_n against_o the_o independent_o §_o 4._o viz._n that_o the_o independent_a church_n offend_v if_o they_o judge_v the_o offend_a church_n they_o shall_v be_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n m._n s._n repli_v p._n 80._o §_o 3._o when_o your_o combine_a eldership_n proceed_v against_o a_o particular_a church_n among_o you_o upon_o offence_n take_v be_v not_o this_o eldership_n as_o well_o party_n as_o judge_n a.s._n my_o argument_n impli_v the_o solution_n of_o this_o objection_n viz._n that_o the_o combine_a eldership_n can_v be_v party_n in_o such_o a_o cause_n because_o it_o have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n over_o the_o particular_a church_n howbeit_o spiritual_a and_o ministerial_a as_o the_o parliament_n over_o particular_a judicatories_n in_o the_o kingdom_n but_o party_n look_v one_o to_o another_o as_o par_fw-fr parem_fw-la and_o not_o as_o superior_a inferiorem_fw-la 2._o neither_o can_v any_o man_n or_o consociation_n take_v his_o ordinary_a judge_n to_o party_n unless_o he_o have_v some_o particular_a exception_n against_o he_o 3._o i_o propound_v you_o the_o same_o question_n concern_v the_o particular_a tribe_n and_o the_o synagogicall_a judicatories_n among_o the_o people_n of_o god_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n when_o the_o great_a sanedrim_n take_v offence_n at_o they_o or_o at_o their_o judgement_n whether_o the_o great_a sanedrim_n be_v not_o both_o judge_n and_o party_n or_o rather_o whether_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o offence_n take_v it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v consider_v as_o a_o party_n and_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o authoritative_a power_n as_o a_o judge_n 4._o i_o propound_v it_o of_o the_o state_n whether_o the_o parliament_n may_v not_o be_v consider_v as_o party_n be_v offend_v at_o any_o particular_a consociation_n and_o as_o judge_n in_o quality_n of_o the_o representative_a body_n of_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n or_o if_o it_o be_v evermore_o needful_a that_o some_o particular_a person_n or_o person_n compeare_v in_o quality_n of_o party_n against_o particular_a consociation_n or_o town_n 5._o in_o your_o particular_a congregation_n may_v not_o your_o church_n under_o divers_a notion_n be_v consider_v as_o judge_n and_o party_n or_o may_v every_o delinquent_n take_v your_o whole_a presbytery_n or_o congregation_n to_o party_n 6._o do_v not_o the_o arminian_o serve_v themselves_o of_o this_o independent_a argument_n against_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n to_o decline_v the_o synod_n power_n and_o be_v not_o both_o they_o and_o this_o their_o argument_n condemn_v by_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o synod_n as_o very_o absurd_a and_o unapt_a 7._o this_o argument_n conclude_v against_o all_o the_o superior_a power_n of_o this_o world_n again_o m.s._n 1._o tell_v we_o that_o this_o authoritative_a power_n of_o combine_a presbytery_n over_o congregation_n be_v not_o from_o above_o a._n s._n but_o we_o have_v prove_v it_o to_o be_v from_o above_o and_o from_o god_n as_o author_n of_o nature_n and_o of_o grace_n see_v the_o question_n concern_v the_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n 2._o core_n dathan_n and_o abiram_n object_v no_o less_o against_o moses_n and_o aaron_n yea_o as_o much_o may_v be_v object_v against_o god_n himself_o who_o be_v judge_n and_o party_n and_o jesus_n christ_n who_o be_v party_n and_o yet_o shall_v judge_v the_o quick_a and_o the_o dead_a for_o if_o criminal_n may_v so_o escape_v they_o will_v not_o fail_v to_o take_v their_o judge_n evermore_o for_o party_n m._n s._n to_o hold_v that_o all_o those_o that_o have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n over_o man_n may_v lawful_o in_o virtue_n of_o such_o a_o power_n be_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n be_v to_o exalt_v all_o manner_n of_o tyranny_n etc._n etc._n by_o law_n for_o so_o in_o church_n and_o state_n man_n invest_v with_o such_o a_o power_n may_v be_v their_o own_o carver_n and_o serve_v themselves_o of_o the_o estate_n liberty_n and_o life_n of_o those_o that_o be_v under_o they_o how_o and_o when_o and_o as_o oft_o as_o they_o listen_v add_v but_o the_o consequence_n be_v false_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o antecedent_n a.s._n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o they_o have_v not_o a_o absolute_a but_o a_o limit_a power_n according_a to_o law_n and_o not_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a but_o public_a will_n or_o in_o quality_n of_o public_a person_n who_o will_n be_v declare_v in_o or_o restrain_v according_a to_o law_n neither_o command_v carolus_n the_o kingdom_n qua_fw-la carolus_n but_o
i_o know_v not_o what_o m._n s._n mean_v by_o his_o strength_n here_o for_o he_o seem_v to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v strength_n of_o reason_n and_o then_o we_o deny_v the_o antecedent_n for_o if_o they_o have_v any_o they_o shall_v do_v well_o to_o show_v it_o and_o not_o to_o vaunt_v of_o it_o 2._o he_o be_v not_o confident_a to_o call_v it_o evident_a ergo_fw-la it_o be_v inevident_a and_o obscure_a ergo_fw-la it_o be_v uncertain_a if_o these_o reason_n or_o strength_n be_v take_v from_o nature_n for_o in_o nature_n all_o reason_n that_o be_v inevident_a be_v uncertain_a if_o he_o mean_v reason_n take_v from_o divine_a authority_n than_o he_o need_v not_o to_o doubt_v in_o say_v if_o not_o in_o evidence_n for_o all_o argument_n take_v from_o divine_a authority_n be_v inevident_a and_o the_o mean_a logician_n know_v that_o argumentum_fw-la ab_fw-la authoritate_fw-la ductum_fw-la est_fw-la inevidens_fw-la &_o inartificiale_a and_o faith_n which_o be_v evermore_o inevident_a be_v such_o 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a._n s._n whereof_o for_o any_o thing_n i_o know_v you_o make_v little_a esteem_n 4._o i_o deny_v that_o if_o a._n s._n commend_v you_o for_o some_o good_a ergo_fw-la you_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v in_o your_o foolish_a and_o pernicious_a practice_n which_o can_v but_o in_o all_o moral_a probability_n overthrow_v the_o state_n and_o the_o church_n of_o god_n there_o must_v only_o be_v one_o government_n admit_v in_o the_o church_n what_o ever_o it_o be_v whether_o you_o we_o or_o any_o other_o and_o that_o for_o fear_n of_o division_n 2._o as_o for_o the_o antecedent_n indeed_o it_o be_v my_o judgement_n of_o charity_n which_o suffer_v long_o and_o be_v kind_a envy_v not_o vaunt_v not_o itself_o as_o you_o do_v be_v not_o puff_v up_o as_o you_o be_v that_o be_v not_o easy_o provoke_v think_v not_o evil_a bear_v all_o thing_n believe_v all_o thing_n hope_v all_o thing_n endure_v all_o thing_n 1_o cor._n 13.4_o 5_o 7._o but_o since_o that_o time_n have_v read_v m._n s._n his_o book_n licence_v doubtless_o by_o some_o independent_a or_o some_o other_o disguise_v person_n so_o stuff_v with_o these_o his_o impious_a maxim_n against_o the_o church_n the_o state_n and_o all_o piety_n and_o with_o my_o own_o ear_n hear_v some_o very_a dangerous_a expression_n of_o the_o sectary_n who_o pass_v under_o the_o name_n of_o independent_o i_o have_v at_o least_o change_v much_o or_o suspend_v my_o former_a judgement_n of_o they_o for_o charity_n rejoyt_v not_o in_o iniquity_n but_o rejoice_v in_o the_o truth_n i_o will_v not_o speak_v ill_o of_o your_o person_n but_o if_o master_n edward_n have_v such_o thing_n under_o the_o independent_o hand_n as_o his_o book_n mention_n as_o in_o charity_n i_o be_o bind_v to_o believe_v he_o have_v i_o be_o bind_v to_o think_v otherways_o than_o i_o have_v do_v of_o your_o opinion_n and_o howbeit_o i_o have_v never_o hear_v or_o read_v any_o such_o thing_n of_o the_o independent_o yet_o it_o be_v too_o much_o for_o you_o sir_n so_o proud_o 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you_o m._n s._n tell_v i_o what_o soldier_n and_o officer_n whether_o of_o the_o independent_o presbyterian_o or_o other_o have_v be_v best_o pay_v 4._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o they_o must_v not_o buy_v a_o toleration_n of_o their_o odd_a way_n and_o practice_n with_o money_n for_o that_o be_v no_o better_o than_o simony_n if_o they_o lay_v it_o out_o with_o aim_n at_o any_o such_o thing_n they_o be_v worthy_a to_o be_v deceive_v m._n s._n his_o six_o argument_n they_o have_v many_o of_o they_o such_o as_o be_v meet_v for_o such_o a_o service_n adventure_v their_o person_n and_o life_n in_o the_o face_n of_o the_o rage_n and_o fury_n of_o the_o common_a enemy_n continue_v still_o in_o the_o same_o engagement_n ergo_fw-la they_o must_v be_v tolerate_v a._n s._n 1._o will_v you_o never_o desist_v from_o brag_v of_o your_o independent_a merit_n and_o from_o make_v of_o these_o odious_a comparison_n 2._o it_o be_v a_o strange_a thing_n that_o this_o m._n s._n who_o as_o i_o 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their_o liberty_n etc._n etc._n but_o the_o french_a yea_o other_o also_o and_o those_o presbyterian_o come_v out_o of_o their_o country_n that_o have_v no_o estate_n or_o liberty_n here_o to_o lose_v and_o yet_o do_v what_o they_o can_v for_o the_o cause_n and_o yet_o will_v not_o i_o compare_v they_o with_o any_o other_o for_o fear_v lest_o i_o shall_v offend_v they_o both_o m._n s._n his_o seven_o argument_n some_o of_o they_o have_v expose_v themselves_o to_o more_o danger_n and_o hard_a term_n from_o the_o adverse_a party_n then_o ordinary_a in_o case_n they_o shall_v prevail_v by_o a_o public_a vindication_n of_o the_o cause_n of_o the_o parliament_n in_o print_n from_o the_o scripture_n and_o that_o before_o any_o man_n of_o differ_a judgement_n from_o they_o in_o church-affair_n appear_v in_o the_o cause_n upon_o such_o term_n ergo_fw-la man_n so_o holy_a so_o harmless_a of_o such_o eminent_a desert_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o religion_n state_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v be_v 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he_o may_v by_o his_o suffering_n have_v become_v rich_a neither_o say_v i_o this_o to_o flatter_v he_o or_o to_o depress_v you_o for_o i_o never_o frequent_v he_o much_o neither_o according_a to_o ordinary_a providence_n can_v i_o in_o time_n to_o come_v have_v much_o to_o do_v with_o any_o of_o you_o but_o to_o beat_v down_o that_o insupportable_a and_o proud_a argument_n of_o you_o ground_v upon_o your_o merit_n of_o supererogation_n it_o will_v seem_v by_o your_o discourse_n that_o neither_o heaven_n nor_o earth_n be_v sufficient_a to_o recompense_v so_o deserve_v man_n 4._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o your_o sect_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v for_o any_o service_n you_o have_v do_v to_o the_o state_n if_o it_o be_v not_o conform_v to_o god_n word_n 1._o for_o i_o will_v warrant_v you_o if_o jew_n can_v obtain_v such_o a_o toleration_n as_o you_o aim_n at_o they_o will_v appear_v upon_o the_o same_o term_n as_o you_o do_v 2._o and_o the_o popish_a rebel_n of_o ireland_n propound_v the_o same_o argument_n to_o the_o king_n majesty_n that_o you_o propound_v here_o 5._o they_o deal_v a_o great_a deal_n fair_a who_o press_v every_o man_n to_o keep_v his_o covenant_n with_o god_n in_o pull_v down_o of_o popery_n arminianism_n all_o sect_n and_o heresy_n according_a to_o their_o solemn_a oath_n for_o a_o toleration_n whereof_o you_o be_v here_o a_o suitor_n against_o your_o oath_n ergo_fw-la i_o will_v say_v nothing_o but_o this_o that_o it_o be_v just_a with_o god_n that_o he_o never_o tolerate_v they_o who_o will_v tolerate_v so_o many_o sect_n to_o dishonour_v he_o as_o for_o myself_o if_o all_o the_o world_n shall_v subscribe_v such_o a_o oath_n i_o hope_v in_o god_n mercy_n i_o shall_v never_o be_v draw_v to_o subscribe_v it_o 7._o neither_o think_v i_o that_o any_o man_n can_v do_v it_o without_o perjury_n and_o manifest_a breach_n of_o that_o solemn_a covenant_n already_o enter_v into_o the_o lord_n preserve_v we_o from_o play_v thus_o fast_o and_o loose_v with_o oath_n 8._o if_o such_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o sect_n which_o this_o man_n dispute_v so_o hard_a for_o be_v grant_v what_o can_v it_o be_v but_o the_o utter_a dishonour_n of_o this_o parliament_n the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o all_o the_o three_o kingdom_n 9_o shall_v not_o the_o jesuit_n have_v just_a subject_n to_o jeer_v at_o all_o the_o book_n we_o have_v former_o write_v against_o their_o equivocation_n if_o we_o ourselves_o shall_v so_o equivocate_v with_o the_o live_a god_n 10._o shall_v we_o not_o justify_v the_o bishop_n who_o have_v so_o calumniate_v and_o cry_v down_o the_o parliament_n for_o bring_v in_o and_o tolerate_v of_o so_o many_o sect_n and_o heresy_n tub-preaching_a etc._n etc._n 11._o be_v the_o religion_n of_o oxford_n yea_o of_o the_o rebel_n of_o ireland_n worse_a than_o this_o 12._o what_o have_v we_o to_o do_v to_o undergo_v such_o a_o war_n against_o the_o malignant_n if_o we_o be_v mind_v to_o tolerate_v all_o the_o religion_n we_o now_o fight_v against_o yea_o and_o many_o other_o ten_o time_n worse_o what_o be_v that_o but_o to_o show_v ourselves_o more_o malignant's_a than_o they_o be_v yea_o to_o declare_v they_o just_a and_o ourselves_o perfidious_a rebel_n sure_o he_o that_o will_v subscribe_v such_o a_o toleration_n must_v be_v out_o of_o his_o wit_n worse_o than_o a_o papist_n yea_o than_o a_o pagan_a 13._o neither_o know_v we_o any_o such_o toleration_n but_o among_o the_o turk_n who_o yet_o tolerate_v no_o man_n to_o speak_v against_o mahumet_n 14._o and_o i_o must_v say_v that_o it_o be_v better_a live_n among_o the_o turk_n then_o among_o such_o christian_n for_o the_o less_o their_o light_n be_v the_o more_o excusable_a be_v they_o and_o the_o great_a we_o the_o great_a be_v our_o
not_o for_o we_o to_o distinguish_v or_o restrain_v it_o he_o be_v the_o minister_n of_o god_n for_o good_a verse_n 4._o ergo_fw-la for_o this_o good_a viz._n to_o have_v a_o care_n of_o religion_n and_o to_o punish_v such_o as_o trouble_v it_o by_o their_o schism_n and_o heresy_n and_o therefore_o 6._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o posito_fw-la uno_fw-la medio_fw-la non_fw-la negantur_fw-la reliqua_fw-la it_o follow_v not_o that_o if_o god_n serve_v himself_o of_o some_o mean_n in_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la he_o serve_v himself_o of_o any_o other_o mean_n viz._n of_o civil_a authority_n about_o the_o church_n and_o out_o of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v as_o if_o i_o shall_v say_v the_o internal_a cause_n as_o materia_fw-la &_o forma_fw-la be_v necessary_a to_o the_o generation_n of_o a_o man_n ergo_fw-la the_o externall_n as_o the_o efficient_a and_o final_a viz._n god_n and_o man_n be_v not_o necessary_a m._n s._n 2._o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n must_v perform_v their_o office_n with_o meekness_n 2_o tim._n 2.24_o ergo_fw-la they_o must_v not_o threaten_v man_n with_o deliver_v they_o over_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n a._n s._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o antecedent_n they_o must_v perform_v their_o duty_n not_o only_o with_o meekness_n but_o also_o with_o severity_n when_o necessity_n require_v it_o as_o we_o see_v in_o saint_n paul_n 2._o the_o text_n 2_o tim._n 2.24_o speak_v only_o of_o meekness_n in_o teach_v in_o meekness_n say_v the_o apostle_n instruct_v those_o that_o oppose_v themselves_o if_o peradventure_o god_n will_v give_v they_o repentance_n 3._o it_o only_o say_v that_o they_o must_v use_v meekness_n when_o man_n be_v docilo_o when_o there_o be_v any_o hope_n of_o repentance_n and_o not_o with_o pertinacious_a heretic_n and_o schismatic_n of_o who_o we_o can_v expect_v repentance_n 4._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n when_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n threaten_v they_o to_o deliver_v they_o over_o unto_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n they_o may_v do_v that_o also_o with_o meekness_n neither_o be_v such_o a_o proceed_v contrary_a to_o meekness_n for_o the_o meek_a man_n of_o the_o world_n may_v accuse_v his_o party_n before_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o yet_o not_o be_v think_v inhuman_a or_o cruel_a 5._o thus_o all_o be_v beat_v down_o all_o that_o he_o build_v upon_o this_o ruinous_a foundation_n must_v needs_o fall_v to_o ground_n m._n s._n his_o three_o reason_n that_o which_o be_v a_o special_a gift_n of_o god_n and_o whereof_o no_o man_n be_v capable_a by_o his_o own_o industry_n the_o want_n of_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o a_o judgement_n of_o god_n and_o withal_o no_o way_n prejudicial_a or_o hurtful_a unto_o other_o shall_v not_o expose_v he_o to_o further_a punishment_n and_o misery_n but_o repentance_n to_o the_o acknowledgement_n of_o the_o truth_n be_v a_o special_a gift_n of_o god_n and_o the_o want_n thereof_o a_o judgement_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n ergo._n a._n s._n 1._o i_o deny_v the_o first_o proposition_n for_o if_o he_o be_v bind_v to_o have_v it_o and_o have_v the_o faculty_n and_o sufficient_a mean_n to_o have_v have_v it_o and_o to_o keep_v it_o after_o that_o he_o have_v it_o or_o may_v have_v it_o and_o if_o by_o his_o own_o fault_n he_o want_v it_o he_o can_v excuse_v himself_o neither_o from_o the_o obligation_n to_o have_v nor_o from_o the_o punishment_n due_a to_o he_o for_o the_o want_n of_o it_o as_o our_o divine_n teach_v against_o the_o arminian_o 2._o i_o deny_v the_o assumption_n for_o it_o be_v prejudicial_a to_o other_o by_o the_o ill_a example_n he_o give_v and_o by_o the_o malice_n proceed_v from_o thence_o that_o induce_v other_o to_o the_o same_o sin_n to_o false_a doctrine_n schism_n and_o heresy_n 3._o this_o argument_n prove_v not_o m._n s._n his_o thesis_n viz._n that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v not_o punish_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n or_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o state_n and_o therefore_o 4._o we_o may_v grant_v he_o all_o the_o argument_n neither_o do_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n punish_v any_o man_n for_o want_n of_o repentance_n or_o for_o his_o ignorance_n which_o be_v in_o the_o mind_n and_o will_n and_o consequent_o unknown_a to_o he_o but_o for_o the_o pertinacious_a externall_n profession_n of_o they_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o state_n neither_o refuse_v he_o to_o tolerate_v ignorance_n or_o want_v of_o repentance_n yea_o if_o there_o be_v nothing_o worse_o in_o they_o both_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o the_o minister_n of_o christ_n must_v pity_v they_o and_o travel_v for_o their_o instruction_n and_o amendment_n this_o be_v far_o from_o prove_v either_o a_o toleration_n of_o the_o public_a exercise_n of_o heretical_a doctrine_n or_o of_o schism_n or_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v not_o power_n to_o punish_v they_o m._n s._n his_o four_o reason_n be_v put_v in_o form_n will_v be_v thus_o that_o which_o make_v man_n worse_o and_o hypocrite_n to_o profess_v outward_o what_o they_o believe_v not_o in_o their_o conscience_n be_v not_o lawful_a but_o externall_n compulsion_n of_o heretic_n schismatic_n etc._n etc._n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n make_v by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v such_o ergo_fw-la it_o be_v unlawful_a and_o consequent_o not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v a._n s._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o proposition_n if_o it_o make_v man_n worse_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la not_o of_o itself_o but_o in_o virtue_n of_o some_o accident_n annex_v to_o the_o person_n that_o become_v worse_a it_o be_v false_a if_o it_o do_v it_o per_fw-mi se_fw-mi by_o its_o own_o virtue_n and_o efficacy_n it_o be_v true_a but_o then_o the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o punish_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n etc._n etc._n make_v they_o not_o worse_o per_fw-mi se_fw-mi for_o neither_o be_v it_o finis_fw-la operantis_fw-la or_o operationis_fw-la since_o neither_o he_o intend_v to_o make_v they_o worse_o but_o better_a nor_o tend_v his_o operation_n i._n e._n his_o judgement_n and_o command_n to_o make_v they_o at_o all_o ill_a much_o less_o to_o make_v they_o worse_o since_o the_o effect_n of_o it_o per_fw-la se_fw-la be_v only_o to_o imprison_v their_o body_n to_o fine_v they_o or_o if_o they_o merit_v it_o to_o exile_v they_o or_o take_v their_o life_n which_o produce_v no_o moral_a ill_n but_o a_o great_a good_a viz._n a_o hindrance_n of_o they_o to_o vent_v abroad_o their_o heresy_n and_o schism_n so_o it_o make_v they_o not_o hypocrite_n per_fw-mi se_fw-mi but_o only_o they_o per_fw-mi se_fw-mi make_v themselves_o hypocrite_n they_o be_v bind_v to_o suffer_v themselves_o to_o be_v teach_v the_o truth_n so_o to_o believe_v it_o and_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v hypocrite_n m._n s._n repli_v that_o he_o stand_v already_o engage_v in_o a_o great_a band_n hereunto_o viz._n his_o peace_n with_o god_n and_o the_o safety_n of_o his_o soul_n then_o suffer_v temporal_o from_o the_o civil_a power_n a._n s._n your_o erroneous_a conscience_n can_v breed_v no_o true_a and_o real_a obligation_n or_o engagement_n against_o god_n 1._o for_o you_o be_v bind_v and_o oblige_v to_o god_n to_o cast_v away_o your_o ignorance_n and_o ill_a conscience_n 2._o what_o if_o your_o erroneous_a conscience_n dictate_v you_o that_o you_o must_v kill_v the_o king_n as_o that_o of_o ravalliack_n do_v to_o he_o in_o france_n to_o kill_v henry_n the_o four_o and_o that_o of_o the_o jesuit_n and_o priest_n in_o england_n do_v they_o to_o blow_v up_o the_o parliament_n and_o many_o papist_n of_o their_o own_o religion_n must_v you_o i_o pray_v obey_v the_o dictate_v of_o such_o a_o conscience_n 3._o away_o with_o such_o wicked_a conscience_n and_o to_o the_o law_n and_o prophet_n if_o you_o be_v a_o protestant_n 4._o either_o that_o band_n be_v lay_v upon_o you_o by_o god_n or_o the_o devil_n but_o it_o can_v be_v lay_v upon_o you_o by_o god_n for_o he_o can_v lay_v a_o band_n upon_o you_o to_o serve_v the_o devil_n or_o to_o despite_n himself_o for_o so_o he_o shall_v be_v the_o author_n of_o sin_n nor_o by_o the_o devil_n for_o then_o the_o band_n lay_v upon_o you_o to_o serve_v he_o shall_v be_v great_a than_o that_o which_o god_n have_v lay_v upon_o you_o in_o his_o word_n to_o serve_v he_o it_o may_v be_v say_v that_o so_o long_o as_o my_o erroneous_a conscience_n last_v i_o must_v obey_v it_o a._n s._n i_o answer_v you_o must_v obey_v it_o as_o he_o who_o be_v captive_a under_o sin_n must_v obey_v sin_n be_v a_o slave_n unto_o sin_n that_o have_v voluntary_o render_v he_o such_o but_o he_o unjust_o render_v himself_o a_o slave_n to_o sin_n and_o unjust_o in_o virtue_n thereof_o remain_v a_o sinner_n and_o obey_v it_o some_o will_v answer_v 7._o