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A68098 A pleasant dialogue, betweene a souldior of Barwicke, and an English chaplaine Wherein are largely handled & laide open, such reasons as are brought in for maintenaunce of popishe traditions in our Eng. church. Also is collected, as in a short table, 120. particular corruptions yet remaining in our saide church, with sundrie other matters, necessary to be knowen of all persons. Togither with a letter of the same author, placed before this booke, in vvay of a preface. Gilby, Anthony, ca. 1510-1585. 1581 (1581) STC 11888; ESTC S109674 76,666 200

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to bring Christian men into bondage that they may not refuse such thinges as are against their conscience Fourthlie if they giue any offence In the which foure things against these garmentes we may take exceptions And for these and such like causes the Apostles forbadde both Iewes and Gentiles euen all the Christians things offered vnto Idolles in their firste Decrees to teach by theyr factes and deedes the same that they had spoken in wordes that the Idolles and al that to them belonged ought to be abhorred of all true Christians And therefore in the same place it is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the filthines of Idolles Bern. Paule giueth leaue to eate y e meate offered vnto Idolles afterwarde Mil. Yea after this there arose a doubte amongest the brethren whether they might eate such fleshe as was solde in the market and so eaten at the tables amongest other meates vnknowne to haue come from anie Idole Which was a farre other thing than the vsing of these thinges about the Sacramentes To this the Apostle aunswereth that as the earth and all that therein is belongeth to the Lord so may man vse al meates creatures receiuing them w t thankes giuing at the Lordes hande to his glorie without anie further care whēce they come so that none be thereby offended But if any man do tell thee that it is a thing once dedicate to the Idolles thou mayest not vse it And hereby it appeareth that the creatures though they haue bin abused that beare no name nor forme of any abuse neither giue offence by the vsing of thē may be reteined But if they haue the forme shewe or name of things Idolatrous they are to be abhorred for two causes The one least we should seeme to haue any part or communion with the Idolaters which were against the glorie of our God The other least the weake brother be boldened to vse the thinges sacrificed to Idolles And so thy weake Brother perishe thorowe thy knowledge for whome Christ died Thus may we note two sortes of Idolothites or things belōging to Idolls Some haue their names and formes chaunged frō common vsage and so by forme name do retaine the memoriall of the idolles whose names and memorie God will haue to be abolished Such are properlie called the monumēts of Idolatrie These ought by Gods lawe and mans lawe here in Englande to be done awaye or with dishonor at te least to be defaced The seconde are such as neither are altered in forme nor name the whiche may still be vsed as the flesh solde in the market and eaten at the table these maye be called indifferent so that in the vse of thē no brother be offended nor against his conscience vrged But the creatures that are called gods are accursed and maye not be vsed All the Idolles were creatures yet by Moyses Paule they are called Diuels Therefore the partaking with them is the partaking with Deuilles and the verie places where the Idolles were worshipped were detestable and are called hell afterwarde Their great Idoll wherevnto King Ahaziah sent in honor called Baalzebub by his worshippers was by the godlie Iewes that hated Idolatrie called the chiefe of the Deuilles and so his name continued Such hatred did they beare to all thinges apperteyning to the Idolles Therefore biddeth Moses to destroye all those Idolatrous monumentes And Isaiah biddeth vs to counte their idolatrous Ephod which was y e chief garment of their Priest as a menstruous cloute and vtterlie defie it Therefore this geare that beareth the names formes still of their Idolothites can not bee named amongest the things indifferent though we graunt the substaunce and matter of them of it selfe indifferent neyther can they bee commaunded to be vsed in the ministerie or Sacramentes which are matters of Religion in any wise Bern. Yes If the Prince commaund it Mil. Gideon was a Prince who made and commaunded an Ephod a riche robe or garment for a Prieste and appoynted it for his citie Ophra But this was the cause of the destruction of him and his house For as we reade Abimelech the sonne of his Concubine did vsurpe the Kingdome and did slaye seuentie and niene of his brethren the sonnes of his Father Gideon vpon one stone Then this Abimelech after hee had thus cruellie slayne his brethren his Mothers kinred that had set him vppe and destroyed the Citie Shechem that had made him King he had his deathes wounde by a Woman yet woulde hee haue his Page to runne him thorowe with his sworde moste desperately so the whole familie perished moste miserablie And no man can alledge any other cause against Gideon but onelie that which the holy Ghoste giueth that hee made this Priestes garment and appoynted it for his Citie without any warraunte of Gods worde of a good intent onely So sore and perillous a thing it is to deale in Gods matters by mans fantasie Nadab and Abihu for the taking of fire which God had not commaunded were sodenlie burned with fire from heauen Vzza was sodainlie slaine because he would helpe forwarde Gods worke by his good intent without Gods warraunte King Saul dealeth in sacrifice a matter of religion without Gods commaundement but by y e same wise policie that is alleadged for the garmentes to reteyne the people together yet for this cause loseth he his kingdome Also King Vzziah is striken with Leprosie and cast out with shame because he dealeth in sacrifices matters of Religion without gods worde by his Princelie authoritie Thus God will haue the Princes to knowe that they are but men therefore that they may not medle in his matters without his word and commaundement For as Samuel said to Saul so saieth he still vnto all Hath the Lorde as great pleasure in Sacrifices as when his voyce is harkened vnto and obeyed Beholde to obeye is better than sacrifice and to hearken is better than the fatte of Rammes For transgression and rebellion against Gods worde is as witchcrafte and idolatrie Wherefore thus saieth God by his seruaunt Moses to Kings to al others That whiche I do commaunde thee that onelie shalt thou do thou shalt put nothing too it nor take nothing from it Loe this is the grounde of true Religion And in matters of policie also ther must be some discretion For the Prince commaunded the two Captaines and their hundred souldiours to fetch Eliiah vnto him a thinge that may seeme indifferent but the fire of God deuoured them So Kings haue their law howe farre they shall commaund And the subiectes by the same may knowe howe to obey For God when he setteth vp Princes hath not giuē ouer his owne right and authoritie They are but his stewardes and Bayliues to see his will executed in al things not their owne lustes and pleasures In euill commaundements therefore to disobey them is none iniurie vnto them Bern. Me thinke I smell a ratte in
A PLEASAVNT DIALOGVE Betweene a Souldior of Barwicke and an English Chaplaine Wherein are largely handled laide open such reasons as are brought in for maintenaunce of popishe Traditions in our Eng. Church Also is collected as in a short table 120. particular corruptions yet remaining in our saide Church with sundrie other matters necessarie to be knowen of all persons Togither with a letter of the same Author placed before this booke in vvay of a Preface 1. Cor. 6. v. 15. What cōcord hath Christ with Belial 1581. To my Reuerent Fathers and Brethren in Christ Master Couerdale Mai. Turner M. Whittingham M. Sampson M. Doctor Humphrey M. Leauer M. Crowley and others that labour to roote out the weedes of Poperie Grace and Peace BEcause wee are created for Gods glorie and the edification one of another in Christe and are all bounde to serue therevnto by wealth or woe life or death chieflie they to whom God hath giuen the greater giftes whom he hath called to greater roomes are most boūden to be zealous for gods glorie with godly ielousie to present the church spouse of Christ vnder their charge a pure Virgin to Christ hir husband and that by no subtiltie as the Apostle warneth they should bee corrupted from the simplicitie in Christ Therefore I nothing doubting of your zeale and diligence my reuerende Fathers deare Brethrē who being in authoritie are first called to the battell to striue for Gods glorie and the edification of his people against the Romishe reliques and ragges of Antichrist but that yee will couragiously and constantly in Christ throwe out these ragges of Gods enemies And I do further require you in the name of God so farre as my simplicitie may be bolde to require your wisedomes that ye will by this occasion laye open other as great enormities that we all knowe and labour to race out all the dregges and remnauntes of transformed Poperie that are crept into Englande by the too much lenitie of them that wilbe accounted the Lordes of the Cleargie And for my part by the grace and power of my God though I sinfull wretch haue no such giftes nor authoritie as can much further the cause or comfort you in your godlie trauailes yet shall I and many more with me pray for you and with our simple giftes will desire you that we may ioyne together with you to suffer togither in so good a cause that is so much for gods glorie and the edificatiō of his Church in the pure simplicitie of Christes worde and Sacramentes wherein our enemies and persecutours are straūgly bewitched I wote not by what diuelishe cuppe that they do make such a diuersitie betwixt Christs wordes and his Sacramentes that they can not thinke the worde of God to be safely inough preached honorably inough handled without cappe Cope or surplesse but that the Sacramentes the Marrying the Burying the Churching of women and other church seruice as they call it muste needes be declared with Crossing with Coping with Surplessing with kneeling with prety wafer kakes other knackes of Poperie O Paule that thou wert aliue thou durst tell these politicke gentlemen that there hath bin to much labour bestowed vpon them in vayne Thou durst say vnto them as thou diddest to the Corinthes That they éate not the Lordes supper but playe a pageaunt of their owne to blinde the people and keepe them still in superstition farre from the simplicitie of Christes supper to make the selie soules beleeue that they haue an Englishe Masse and so put no difference betwixt trueth and falshoode betwixt Christ Antichrist betwixt God and the Deuill They are straungly bewitched I saye that will binde their Englishe priesthoode and sacramentes to garments but much more enchaunted that can finde no garments to please them but such as haue bin openly poluted with Poperie superstition and Idolatrie But most of all in this poynt shall their madnes appeare to al posteritie because they make these Antichristes ragges Causa sine qua non in Christes holy Ministerie so that these shall make an English Priest be he neuer such a dolt or villaine as we haue very many and without these Romishe reliques not Paule him selfe as one of them did blaspheme and the reste in effect do plainly affirme Well by Gods power wee haue fought with the wolues for these and such like Popishe chaffe and God hath giuen the victorie wee haue nowe to do with the Foxes let vs not feare There is no crafte cunning or pollicie against the Lorde We haue Christ and his Apostles and al the Prophetes euer stryuing against the hypocrites of their tyme on our side A strawe for Popishe policie We haue the worde of God to warrant vs to roote out all monumentes of superstition and Idolatrie and are charged to abhorre them to count them accursed and to defye them and deteste them as a menstruous cloathe They haue not the worde of God And what wisedome is in them sayeth God by his Prophete Ieremie They talke of obedience and concord but there is no obedience against the Lord nor any concorde to be desired but where Gods glorie and veritie is preferred Else better to haue all the worlde to runne in hurlie burlie and heauen and earth to shake then one iote of Gods glorie should decay so farre as in vs lyeth Wee haue their owne lawes and proclamations to roote out all monumentes of superstition and Idolatrie and their owne wordes are contrarie to these their owne doings They repent the reformatiō proclaimed as did the Israelites They buylde agayne that which they once destroyed And this do they openly that all the worlde may wonder at their follie But what they do secretly God will one day haue declared openly yea they make the name of God and his doctrine that we professe to be euill spoken of already by many of their doinges Their iudgement hasteth that for such causes persecute Gods true Preachers Wherfore let vs not feare their threateninges There can none persecute vs for this trashe but such as are neyther whot nor colde and then they shalbe vomited out vnlesse their zeale increase or they that are Atheistes such as haue no god before their eies but their god is their belly And those are worldpleasers or open Papistes whom God hath giuen vp to a reprobate sense Wherefore we must thus take it that they are gods roddes for our sinnes because wee haue bin no more zealous in Gods cause nor carefull to seeke his glorie That wolfe winchester his butcher Boner fought once against vs. for the groundes of this geare but loe howe the Lorde within two or three yeeres ouerthrew them all to giue vs courage to goe forwarde We are to slacke and negligent That monster remayneth is fedde as the Papistes saye for their sakes And we graunt that his paūche is fedde for some secrete purpose We do crye kill this traytour enemie to the Crowne to the Realme