Vicar I understand now the reason St. Peter commands Christians to be obedient to the Authority of Heathen Princes and Governours because he knew very well how they came by it For though all their power before was usurp'd and tyrannical yet after they had deriv'd it from him it became a lawful Authority If our wicked Politicians be not confounded with this I know not what will do it I am sure I am to meet with such stuff in a Church which boasts of purity of her doctrine and which cherishes the Authors not only as good Christians but learned men and Masters of Christianity Lael Zecch Tract Theol. P. 81. Laelius Zecchius tells us that the Pope by the Law of God hath power and temporal dominion over the whole world That the same is prov'd by the words Luk. 22. Behold here are two swords which signifie the power spiritual and temporal and because Christ whose Vicar the Pope is hath both powers according to the words Matt. ult All power is given me in heaven and in earth that thence it may be deduced that the Pope is absolutely Lord of all the Christian world and Kings and Christian Princes are to acknowledge that they hold of him their Empires and Kingdoms and all that are faithful ought to be subject unto him and that as oft as such Princes do any great hurt in the Church the Pope may deprive them of their Kingdoms and transfer their right to others Franciscus Bozius Fran. Boz de temp Eccle. Monarch l. 1. c. 3. p. 52. C. 7. p. 98. That the supreme temporal Jurisdiction throughout all the world doth belong to S. Peter's Successors so as one and the same is the Hierarch and Monarch in all things That Christ left the Church to be govern'd by the best form of government but the best form of government is absolute Monarchy even in all temporal things therefore Christ left his Church to be so govern'd That the Keys of Heaven were given to Peter L. 2. c. 14. L. 3. c. 1. p. 894. therefore of all the earth That the right of dominion and relation of Infidels may justly by the sentence and ordination of the Church be taken away because Infidels by reason of their infidelity deserve to lose their power over the faithful C. 14. p. 530. c. 14. p. 530. That the Church hath receiv'd that power over Nations which Christ according to his humane nature reciev'd of his Father but Christ receiv'd absolutely of his Father all power in temporalibus therefore the Church likewise receiv'd it by participation of his fulness c. 16. p. 537. That the supreme coactive power in all temporal things belongeth to Ecclesiastical persons by divine Law revealed and expressed in the Scriptures That Kings P. 676. annointed with holy Oil are called as Vassals of the Church That by reason of the supreme Monarchy in all things L. 5. p. 823. temporal laws may be made and Kingdoms taken away for just causes Henricus Gandavensis if Carrerius cite him truly Car. p. 28. That by the Law of God and nature the Priesthood doth over-top the Empire and both Jurisdiction over Spiritualties and Temporalties and the immediate execution likewise of them both depend upon the Priesthood both by the Law of God and Nature Carr. p. 130. Antoninus That they who say the Pope hath dominion over all the world in Spirituals but not in Temporals are like the Counsellors of the King of Syria who said the Gods of the Mountains are their Gods and therefore they have overcome 〈◊〉 let us fight with them in the Plains and Valleys where their Gods dwell not and we shall prevail against them Carr. p. 130. 3 Reg. 20. Augustinus Triumphus That the Son of God hath declar'd the altitude of the Ecclesiastical power being as it were founded upon a Rock to be above all principality and power that unto it all knees should bend of things in heaven in earth and under the earth or in hell 'T is come at last this infernal power 't was only long of a bad memory we had it not before P. 131. That Secular Powers were not necessary but that Princes might perform that through terror of discipline which the Priest cannot effect by power of doctrine and that therefore if the Church could punish evil men Imperial and Secular principality were not necessary the same being included potentially in the principality Apostolical And why cannot the Church punish evil men if both Jurisdictions and the immediate execution of both be in her But we understand him well enough when time serves the conclusion shall be that Princes are unnecessary because the Church by her double power can do the business of the world without them And so farewel useless Princes Aug. de Anc. de Potest Ecc. Q. 39. a. 2. Farther he tells us that Imperial or Regal power is borrowed from the Papal or Sacerdotal for as much as concerneth the formality of dignity and recieving the authority Pretty formalities those Q. 45. a. 2. That the Pope hath Jurisdiction over all things as will temporal as spiritual through the world That he may absolve Subjects from the Oath of Allegiance Q. 46. a. 3. That upon just cause he may set up a King in every Kingdom L. Conr. in templ om judic l. 2 c. 1. S 4. for he is the Overseer of all Kingdoms in Gods stead as God is the Supervisor and maker of all Kingdoms Lancecelot Conradus That He may appoint Guardians and Assistants to Kings and Emperors when they are insufficient and unfit for government That he may depose them and transfer their Empires and Dominions from one line to another Celsus Mancinus Cel. Manc l c. 1. That in the highest Bishop both the Powers and Jurisdictions are spiritual and temporal and that as he is the most eminent person of all men in spiritual power Th. Boz de jur stat l. 1. c. 6. p. 37. P. 52. so he is in temporal Thomas Bozius That Kings and principal Seculars are not immediately of God but by the Interposition of Holy Church and her chief Bishops That warlike and military compulsive power is given to the Church over Kings and Princes That if it be found sometimes that certain Emperors have given some temporalities to the highest Bishops as Constantine gave to Silvester this is not to be understood that they gave any thing which was their own but restor'd that which was unjustly and tyrannically taken from the said Bishops Ap. Carrer P. 132. Rodoricus Sancius That there is one Principlity and one supreme-Prince over all the world who is Christ's Vicar according to that of Dan. c 8. He hath given him power and honour and rule and all people and tongues shall serve him and that in him therefore is the fountain and spring of all principality and from him all other powers do flow P. 131. 132 That
The Controversial Letters OR THE Grand Controversie Concerning The pretended Temporal Authority of POPES over the whole Earth and the true Sovereign of KINGS within their own respective Kingdoms Between two English Gentlemen The one of the Church of England The other of the Church of Rome The first two Letters The Second Edition LONDON Printed for Henry Brome and Benjamin Toke at the Gun and at the Ship in St. Pauls Church-Yard MDCLXXIV E. Libris Beblioth Eccles Cathedr Petribur SIR I Fear the heat of our last Encounter may have done me some prejudice in your good opinion and would justifie to you if I can both my zeal and my friendship Permit me therefore with a more settled calmness to give you the Reasons which sway'd with me then but which the promptness of my nature possibly might so disguise that they might not then appear reason to you As this is my only so I hope 't will be my full justification for though we ow much to friendship we ow more to Truth and that Friend who bars the use of reason in his Friend does in my judgment ill deserve that Name Notwithstanding let me add what I think you are already sufficiently perswaded of that I am far from the blind zeal of those who think Popery an imputation so scandalous and contagious that it destroyes all correspondence with those who own it I have met with several besides your self of your judgment in Religion accomplisht men and so qualified that I cannot but wish either that all such men were Protestants or all Protestants such men I think so well of some parts of your Religion that there are who think the worse of me I read your books alwayes without hatred and sometimes with pity at the unequal combat betwixt the Knight and the Giant though I make no doubt you are even with us in this particular and are all Knights in your own Countreys When I hear People cry out Papists and Popery I have sometimes the bluntness to ask what they mean for having heard them apply'd both to Prelatics and Fanatics they must needs be words of a strangely large size and magical comprehension if they can fit parties so different and what know I but they may be so explain'd that you may own them no more than other folks In fine I look upon my reason as one of the greatest gifts I have receiv'd from God and am perswaded 't is a duty I ow him to use it as well as I can Wherefore I as little approve the passionate zeal of our side as I understand the sublime perfection of blind obedience on yours but where I see you have reason I am content to allow you have so Yet after all Friend I must continue constant to what I maintain'd at our last meeting I love my King and my Countrey as I ought and can neither believe that can be a true Religion which teaches doctrines inconsistent with Government nor believe otherwise but that yours does teach such doctrines And though I know their pestilent influence does not alwayes work for you have in the late times of tryal approved your selves honest men yet I cannot think that Commonwealth safe in which they are either tolerated or conniv'd at Of this I will make your self Judge and in this Paper produce my evidence which shall be the very words of the most famous Authors amongst you who if they be sufficient for number and considerable for learning and plain in expression and own'd for yours I see not what more can be expected from me nor what at all can be reply'd by you or any else To begin then there are I must confess some modest men amongst you Bellarm. de Rom. Pon. l. 5. c. 2. who speak sparingly of the Pope and affirm Princes are not the Popes Vicars These exempt from his Soveraignty the greatest part of the World for they make Infidel Princes true and supreme Princes of their own Kingdoms and say the Pope is not Lord of those possessions which Infidels hold Nay they go so far as to dare say He is not JVRE DIVINO Lord so much as of the whole Christian world Id. c. 3. And that all his power to depose Princes and dispose of their Kingdoms is only indirectly and in ordine ad spiritualia which alas is a matter of nothing and he must needs be a very scrupulous man who boggles at it For this opinion are cited besides two Cardinals Bellarmine and Cajetan abundance of other famous men with hard names Henricus and Joannes Driedo Turrecremata Pighius Waldensis Petrus de Palude Franc. Victoria Dominicus Soto Sanderus Aspileveta Covarruvias and so many others that Bellarmine affirms it is communis sententia Catholicorum Theologorum though in that particular as you will presently see he was a little out But these as many and as learned as they are are but dow-bak't men and scent strongly of wicked carnal policy and heresie too as an honest Gentleman fairly insinuates by the title of his Book Alex. Carrerius adversus impios Politicos nostri temporis Haereticos design principally against this opinion And so Bellarmine scap't fairly for Sixtus Quintus if the information I had from a very good hand deceive me not had a great mind to have burnt his book Though he scap'd more narrowly at Paris for giving too much to the Pope than at Rome for giving too little His fellow Suarez had his book burnt there by the common Hangman and he was found guilty of the same fault but he was a Cardinal for which respect I suppose they dealt more mercifully and only condemn'd and forbid him But this by the by Your hearty men whom the bugbears of carnal policy cannot fright from the defence of truth tell us another story and say plainly what we must trust too Vnless says Franciscus Bozius Fr. Bozius de Temp. Eccl. Monarchia praef ad Clem. 8. there be one supreme Monarch in the Church in all things the unity of the Church cannot be preserved for seeing the Church by divine institution doth consist of a Kingdom and a Priesthood if it were otherwise there should be in the same absolutely one Monarch of the Kingdom and another of the Priesthood That if for avoiding dissentions about sacred causes one supreme Head is appointed why not in the same manner of the Kingdom that there should be one and the same Head both of the Kingdom and Priesthood lest in like sort there should happen dissention betwixt them that therefore it is the rather to be held that Peter doth supply Christs place not only in the Priesthood but in the Kingdom that he might be a King and likewise a Priest according to the order of Melchisedech who was both a King and Priest The famous Cardinal Baronius sayes the same Baron Ann. Tom. 1. An. 57. p. 432 433. That David did foretell that the Priesthood of Christ should be according to the order of
nor governed as Worldly Kingdomes are by Treasuries and Officers and Armies To omit that a Kingdom of this World though received and governed another way then usually Kingdomes are is still a Kingdome of this World for the World is the World let it be governed how 't wil this seems to me to say that the Kingdom of Christ is no Temporal Kingdom For temporal Kingdoms can not subsist nor go on without such things and he that says his Kingdom had them not says plainly his Kingdom was such a Kingdom which needed none of those things Which in other words I think is to say it was not a Temporal Kingdom Again say they the Kingdom of Christ is therefore said not to be of this world because at that time most worldly Kingdomes were got by injustice and governed by wicked and idolatrous Laws and such the Kingdom of Christ was not But pray the Kingdomes now a days establisht with Justice and governed with equity are they not Kingdomes of this World Or did Constantine forfeit his worldly Empire by abolishing those Idolatrous Laws and making better in their places Strange Interpretors of Scripture Who would make worldly Kingdoms inconsistent with vertue and Kings cease to be Kings when they turn good men and most deserve to be so Besides if the world were divided into Kingdomes however unjustly got and wickedly governed t' was yet divided into Kingdomes and what Room was then left for Christ Would they have him a King and give him no Kingdome or a Kingdom no where Farther what can be said why he did not establish his just Kingdom in the place of those wicked ones and take so much injustice out of the World I think nothing but only this that his Kingdom was of another nature made to take away injustice from all Dominion from none I say nothing of the impertinence of alledging injustice in the beginning of Empires a position which would shake the Foundations of the most setled Governments and leave few Princes secure of their Titles A third answer is that his Kingdom is not of this World because not onely of this World but of Heaven and Earth and all Creatures as if this World and more were not this World Besides it mistakes the question too which is not of the extent of his Power to which every Body knows that every thing is subject but of the manner whether besides the omnipotence of his divine nature and the spiritual Regality of his humane there were in him a Temporal power and he were appointed by his Father as Saul to judge the People and go before them 1 Reg. 21.8 and fight their battles This is what the Scripture tells us People expect from their Kings and who speaks not to this speaks not to the question Farther they say that Christs Kingdom is not of this world because worldly Kingdomes are over Bodies his over Souls worldly Kingdomes require obedience to a Temporal Prince his knowledge of and obedience to the Prince of Heaven worldly Kingdomes are extinguisht by death or War c. his is perpetual and immortal c. And this is to say as plain as can be said that 't is spiritual and not temporal For Temporal Kingdoms are over Bodies and if Christs Kingdom be only over Souls 't is not temporal again 't is not temporal if it can not be extinguisht for no temporal thing is immortal Farther to contra-distinguish the temporal Prince from the Prince of Heaven is directly to yield the question and change sides That prejudice should be so strange a blindness and men think to answer by saying the very same with their Adversaries To that of the division of the Inheritance they answer that what Christ refus'd was to be made Arbitrator betwixt the two Brethren But besides that to understand the place of Arbitration seems a little violent for Arbitration requires the Consent of both Parties and there appears nothing but the complaint of one against the injustice of the other His answer imports that medling with Inheritances was a thing with which he had nothing to do and that whether he thought fit or no to become an Arbitrator temporal Matters belonged not to him Again they say his signify'd he was no Ordinary Judge whose Duty and Obligation it was to determine civil Controversies but that his Jurisdiction was Voluntary and Arbitrary And if this be not to say he was not a temporal King I understand nothing for a temporal King is oblig'd by his Office to do Justice and determine civil Controversies and his power is not Voluntary and Arbitrary but Coactive and Obligatory Thirdly They answer that Christ meant his judicial power was not by humane concession as if he could not have done the business as well by Authority from Heaven as from Earth and had not been that way more empowered and more oblig'd to perform his duty Fourthly That Christ came not into the World to judge temporal things though he had full power so to do which is just what the other side says that he was not sent or empower'd by his Father for that purpose though as God he might do what he pleas'd What a pleasant folly this unresolvedness to maintain a thing is which makes people bring for answer the very position they oppose Lastly He is said to have refus'd dividing the Inheritance because Division is the work of the Devil Division of hearts indeed is so but division of possessions is a work of peace and a necessary means to Union of hearts 't is a command from God and a duty in Kings This is chiefly what is said on both sides you will judge as you see cause I for my part believe none better acquainted with the truth then Christ himself and I mean to take his word and believe his Kingdom is not of this World and I care not who knows it If I mistake his meaning and that the Kingdom which he says is not of this World prove yet to be a worldly Kingdom I shall at least have the comfort to err in very good Company and good Company you know is a thing I love sufficiently St. Cyril of Alexan. speaking of the Hyacinth in the Mytre of Aaron The Hyacinth says he De ador in spir l. 11. signifies Heaven remember therefore Christ saying my Kingdom is not of this World for Christ is not an Earthly but a Heavenly King and has all creatures under his feet St. John Chrysostom Christ says he Hom. 87. in Mat. acknowledges himself a King but a Heavenly King ' which elsewhere answering Pilate he says more clearly my Kingdom is not of this World And in another place Hom. 39. in 1 Cor. 15. Stripture knows two Kingdoms one of Adoption and Familiarity another of Creation by the Law of Making and Creating he is King of all Jews Pagans Devils Adversaries by familiarity and care he is King of the Faithful and those who willingly commit and subject themselves to him
case in any Age nor ever thought of by any of his Councils save only that of Lateran To fancy them all into one Council is well enough but to fancy them doing there what when they are assembled in reality they dreamt not of has something too much of fancy Then this favouring of Hereticks is a term so general that I know not how far it extends but I think Princes make alliances as they are guided by interest of State and amuse not themselves with these speculations of Schoolmen The French never bogled to make leagues with Princes of different Religions which though it has been sometimes cast in their dish they left not for all that to do what they thought fitting 'T is now come about and the House of Austria does what heretofore they blam'd in the French and the Pope is much bely'd if he quarrel with them for it It is not much more boldness and rashness to stand upon our terms with his Councils being such as they are then to condemn to excommunication and deposition such as are capable of it all this part of the world For sure Representatives are not so much more considerable than the Bodies themselves But I rove as well as Bellarmin Before I speak to the to the Council it will not be amiss to observe that the case of the German Emperors has something not common with other absolute Princes and the cases of Frederic 2 and Henry 4 something not common with other Emperors For 't is well observ'd by John Barclay that since the translation of the Empire to the West at least since the devolution from the posterity of Charles the Great to the Germans Popes have pretended a particular superiority over those Emperors Clem. 5. Clementina Vinc. de Jurejur Adrian Ep. ad Fred. 7. One of them in a certain Canon will needs have the Oath which Emperors take at their Coronation to be properly an Oath of Fidelity Another taxes the Emperor of insolence and arrogance for setting his name before the Popes as being contrary to the fidelity promist and sworn to S. Peter himself In consequence whereof there are who maintain the Pope may depose the Emperor for this reason because he acknowledges his Temporalties from the Pope and in plain terms that the Empire and Emperor are subject to the Pope I have nothing to do with the justice of this pretence let the Germans look to that who I suppose are not all of the same opinion but 't is manifest Popes have made this claim and if they act in consequence of what they publickly maintain and treat as subjects those whom they took to be so and deal with them as supream Lords with their Inferiors and Vassals as it is not to be wondred at so the case is quite different from that of absolute Princes over whom there is no pretence of superiority Again this Frederick had positively sworn by Embassadors particularly authoriz'd to stand to the Judgment of the Pope and Church Henry 4. had done as much in person at Canossa upon the recalling of his first sentence How far this submission of theirs subjected those two Emperors to the censures of the Church at least how far it might be thought to subject them I cannot say But certainly such an obligation makes their condition different from those who never entred into such bonds It will not be amiss likewise to reflect a little upon the temper of those times As far as I can get a Prospect of them they were less critical then ours and more led by nature than speculation When a mischief hapned they thought 't was fit there should be a remedy and as drowning men think not of the trespass and whether the twig they catch at grow on their neighbours ground if the temporal Power wrong'd them had recourse to the spiritual and if the spiritual to the temporal So the Emperor Otho was sollicited to relieve them against John 12 and did so causing him to be depos'd and a better chosen in his room And every body thought he did well even Bellarmin himself though withal he thinks the action not so regular because that Pope was a very wicked man Besides the Pope was believ'd the Father and Head of all Christians and upon that account obedience due to him from all How far and to what kind of actions this obedience extended they seem to have so little considered that Greg. 7. himself answers those who were not satisfi'd with his hasty sentence Plat. in Greg. 7. as if it were all one to have power over all and to have all Power It was this Council of Lyons which made men begin to look about them and consider the matter more deeply For then says M. Paris both Princes and prelates foreseeing the consequences were exceedingly troubled For though Frederick himself did many ways deserve to be lessened and depriv'd of all honor yet to be depos'd by Papal authority would raise the Church of Rome to that height and pride that abusing the Grace of God they might fall to deposing even innocent and good Princes and sooner Prelates and this for slight causes or at least threaten to depose them c. But whatever they thought afterwards when they reflected the Pope was a man as well as his Neighbours and might abuse an unlimited power at the Council of Lyons I conceive they were more intent to consider who had right of his side then with what kind of penalty they were impour'd to chastise the wrong The Emperors Agents were heard and notwithstanding all they could say in his behalf and they spoke freely enough He was in the opinion of the whole Council manifestly guilty Even those who favour'd him at first confest he deserv'd to be depos'd And if the rest thought no injustice done him who had but what he deserved I think the wonder is not great However it be to answer more directly divers things they say They question the concurrence of the Council and think Bellarmin a little more confident then became him to talk of the approbation and consent and praise of the whole Council when the Decree is so far from authorizing his confidence that on the contrary it affords just suspicion of the contrary For whereas the usual stile of conciliar Acts and elsewhere us'd even in this very Council runs in this manner sacro approbante Concilio 't is changed here into this sacro praesente Concilio which they think not done without a particular reason Again Historians mention the horror and astonishment of the by-standers at the pronouncing the sentence effects not likely to proceed from an Act of their own In fine several exceptions they take But the best answer in my opinion is afforded by Bellarmin himself He teaches elsewhere that in Councils the greatest part of the Acts belong not to Faith Lib. 2. de Concil c. 12. neither Disputations nor Reasons nor Explications but the bare Decrees themselves and those not all but
look off you will not do so much for her as wipe off those blemishes 'T is true you have told me and 't is the only thing to purpose you have told me that That cannot be the Churches Doctrine which is openly disclaim'd by a great part of the Church and that part acknowledg'd Orthodox by all the rest But if your Chuch forbid any to profess their minds as freely as others it must needs be suspected She has more kindness for these Doctrines than is for Her honour and however sound she may be is yet a very injurious Church which obliges her Subjects to pass for suspicious and dangerous people and be thought to hold what they are not oblig'd to do and what perhaps they do not hold but must not say so Besides I have already told you the Case is not much different whether these Doctrines belong to your Faith or not if they be thought true for that is enough to make them practic'd upon occasion And if your Church permit none to say they are false who can think but she desires they should pass for true and that they will do so at last if they do not already And then truly we have great security from your Answer as if because these Doctrines do not belong to your Church as Church they might not be made use of by your Church as so many men I told you this before and you saw well enough how much your Churches reputation was concern'd notwithstanding what you say for her and yet you continue cold and will say no more Never tell me This Lethargy of yours is not for nothing If you be grown careless of your own credit and interest I thought nothing could have quench't the Zeal you all have of your Church How a Papist insensible when the Honour of his Church is in question Deny it as long as you will either you are forbidden to speak and let people know what you harbour in your breasts or you harbour something there which 't is not for your interest people should know In short this constraint which is upon you must either be from abroad or at home You deny there is any from abroad And I hope you say true otherwise I know not what to think of a Church which permits not her Subjects to approve their fidelity to their Prince If it be at home it can be nothing but Guilt and shame and the Conscience of adhering to bad Tenets For I hope you do not think in earnest the State should take it ill of any who should profess as openly as he will that he is an honest man and a good Subject If you fear nothing from your own side it goes very ill with you if you have to fear from ours We know who they are to whom the Civil-sword is a Terrour Excuse not your self upon my curiosity and think it inconsiderable and unworthy of satisfaction 'T is true I am curious and if I were not you would make me so But let me tell you my curiosity is more a friend to you then your squeamishness For pray consider No Commonwealth at least none of a different Communion is safe where those Doctrines are receiv'd which are current among some of you Who 's the Friend I who give you occasion and press you to clear your selves or you who by your backwardness will make it shortly be thought you cannot be clear'd I know well enough there is no great Community nor can be whose Members are all free from fault The nature of mortality bears not an absolute perfection But do you think it a small point of friendship that I offer you the means to make it appear that whoever is faulty you are not Every body can tell and were it put to your self I am fully perswaded you would not deny it that he is not very well principled for a Subject who believes what some of you teach While you make such a mystery of it no body can say you are not of the number and many will suspect you are In fine there is no choice but either you do believe ill and then I must change my good thoughts of you or you do not and then either say so plainly or you are the most superlative Politick in the world to take other mens faults upon you and entitle your self to a guilt which is none of your own If you will give off the defence of your Church and leave her to shift as well as she can for her self why with all my heart I have no reason to wooe you to a sense of your Churches reputation If you will grow careless of your own fame and be content to have it thought you deserve the harsh censures which some make of you you may too if you please though as a Friend I would advise you to do otherwise But let me tell you if you become forgetful we shall not We remember there was such a time as 88 and a thing call'd the Invincible Armada and which might have been so indeed if the Commanders had not been more careful to stick punctually to their Orders then do their business We remember the cause of all this was what Sixtus the Fifth cals Heresie of the Queen which mov'd him to expose the Kingdom as a prey and Philip the Second to seize it We know this cause remains and hope it will do so If it have not wrought since we may thank the want of opportunity and prospect of another Armada But when occasion serves we cannot but think the same cause will be apt to produce the same effect Now pray review your Politicks and see whether they will counsel you to settle this opinion among your fellow-Subjects that in such a case which may happen because it hath happened there are who would joyn with an enemy and help to enslave their Countrey and that you are the men If your Politicks do advise you to this they are the worst natur'd unkindest Politicks in the world I am sure let who will be the Politician I am the Friend But however they advise you we who are no Politicians should be glad to know there are none such among us or if there be who they are We value our own safety though you do not your credit Notwithstanding if you will persist in your Politick diffidence and think we Hereticks are not to be trusted so far as to be made acquainted that you are not errant Knaves I cannot help it But I will convince you if I can that there is something more then bare curiosity in the matter Let me tell you in confidence since this business must needs be made a secret that I am no such stranger to it as you think I 〈◊〉 thought of it a whole Moneth at least and am deceiv'd if I do not see a little into the Milstone At least I am sure my eyes have one advantage which I suspect yours may want that they are not dazled with the lustre of great Names
Interest of every Commonwealth that all the members be heartily concern'd for the maintenance of Law because it is the main security of Liberty and Property and all worldly goods But in our case the Law instead of securing threatens our Liberties and Properties and Lives nor can we be concerned in the preservation of it without being unconcerned in the preservation of our selves For my life I cannot imagin by what Policy you are guided to lay upon never so inconsiderable a party a necessity so strong as that of self-preservation to wish an alteration of Law The sword of Justice should be the Protection and comfort of Good men and a terrour only to the bad and certainly you do not think us all such I believe our greatest fault is that you apprehend us desirous of innovation But pray can you with reason blame us if we desire to live less uneasily I am very certain there are none in the Nation more heartily affected to the liberty and all advantages of it than we are by inclination and should more appear by all justifiable actions if you would let us live with any comfort in it Again can it be for your interest to force part of the Subjects of England alwayes to depend on Forreigners by their interposition to seek relief from their pressures and in return be affected to them and inclined by way of gratitude to promote their desires Can it be your interest to oblige us to send our Children beyond Sea to be bred up to forreign customs and inclinations and suck in principles which you dislike To have so much money as they and so many religious of both sexes require carried out of the Land and spent in other Countreys To complain of Seminaries and increase their number For if we cannot maintain our Children at home we must send them abroad and they are not now to begin to live on Alms if we cannot send money with them and that more plentifully than we perhaps should allow them But to let these things alone do you think it for your credit not to do as you would be done by to gain the imputation of persecuters persecuters of a Religion profest by most of your neighbours and of a Church from which you derive your selves For I hope you do not think to avoid that imputation because what you do you do by Law The primitive Christians suffered all by Law and by Authority and yet are thought persecuted and Martyrs even by your selves Nor were Q. Mary's proceedings without Law and Law not made by her for the present occasion but in force before she came to the Crown You have reason to reproach her times but then sure you have the same reason not to bring the same reproach on your own for burning is not much worse than hanging and quartering If you are perswaded Persecution or if that word dislike you Punishment for Religion advisable at least consider that our case is different from that of other dissenters We changed not from the Law but the Law from us We are to the Reformation as Judaism and Paganism to the Gospel before it The Primitive Christians when Authority came to be on their side never made use of it to work upon the conscience of those whose perswasions in Religion were more antient than their own They imploy'd instruction and example and added the allurement of worldly preferment disposing of places of Trust and Profit only to Christians But they came not to force Me thinks you should not condemn the practice of the Primitive times and use us worse than they thought fit and I think lawful to use Pagans and Jews You might too in my opinion consider whether it be for your advantage to let fall the plea you have so long and so universally maintained that you punish not for Religion but Treason When we ask where this Treason lies the answer alwaies is that it lies in our perswasions concerning the Pope in whom we believe a power inconsistent with the safety of Princes or fidelity of Subjects This the person of Honour against S. C. makes the only cause of jealousy or suspition of our Fidelity which may prove dangerous to the Kingdom and against which the laws are provided This the Execution of Justice This every body assigns for the Treason laid to our charge When this is taken away there remains nothing that I know but Religion for which we are to be punish't I hope I have declared my mind sufficiently in this point and cleared my self and those of the same judgment with me from all guilt of this Treason If you will notwithstanding punish us you may if you please but I am sure you cannot say you punish us for Treason The laws being as they are it may shew very strange to pretend favour from them but yet confiding in the authority of this Honourable Person who says they were provided against Opinions which I have disclaimed and considering the laws themselves mention withdrawing Subjects from their natural Obedience 23. Eliz. 3. Jac. as the ground of their severity I hope it will not misbecome me to wish you would be more guided by their intention than Letter The intention of laws I think is acknowledged their best Interpreter were the judgment of this Person of Honour of value with you I should not doubt you would allow some equity in my wishes for I am sure I am not within the compass of that intention But I am not so vain as to appeal to any thing but mercy As nothing more becomes me to ask so nothing more becomes you to shew though truly I think it not more for your Honour than interest in this case Certainly you would not have these Principles gain strength against which you testify so much aversion Why then do you do all you can to make them pass for Principles of Religion For while you treat equally those who disclaim and those who hold them and put no difference betwixt them and points of Faith you bid fairly to perswade people that there is none and that they ought to suffer as much for the one as the other Methinks your own experience should instruct you that 't is no easy thing to pluck up any perswasions which are thought to spring from the root of Religion let them be never so false or wicked and that it concerns you sufficiently not to let more than are be thought incorporated with it If this import you not can it at least be for your advantage that those who would comply with you should be in a much worse condition than those who will not and this purely for their compliance The equality which you shew hinders not the cases of the one and the other from being very unequal and the disadvantage of the inequality lies on that side which is inclin'd to you These are in the worst case of any of our communion For the rest suffer only from you these from you and us too Pray reflect
Taxes They who are to wean the hearts of the Laity from affection to Riches and the rest of perishable goods should rather set them an example of their Doctrine and are like to be heard but ill when they Preach on that subject if they be known to love Riches themselves and refuse in the necessities of the common-wealth to part with what the wisdom of it judges they may spare Either shew me that a Clergy man cannot live as a Clergy man should without such exemptions as these or I shall never believe they are commanded by the Law of God or Nature Then the Tenure by which they hold what they have is to be consider'd Not but what they have purely from the Piety and Liberality of men is truly theirs and to look upon it with regret is Envy and to take it causlesly away Injustice Notwithstanding though there were no more in the case it is a point of Gratitude to acknowledge our Benefactors But if we reflect that Divine Right is an unmoveable Basis on which whatever stands can never be stirred Humane Right is subject to the contingency of Humane things it will appear of considerable importance on which of the two the exemptions of the Clergy be settled for it may happen that what is convenient in one time and place may be inconvenient elsewhere and in another season Now 't is in Human Authority to provide a remedy for whatever inconvenience change of circumstances shall produce in Exemptions derived from Human Authority But if all be thought to flow from a Divine Spring let the waters be never so troubled or corrupt never so rapid or overflow with never so much prejudice the mischief is without remedy By the way since no ill can proceed from the Fountain of Good if any Exemption bring mischief along with it that Exemption confutes it self and needs no second Argument to evidence it has no warrant from God or Nature Bellarmin now says They are of Divine Right all Reason says some at least are harmful to Princes harmful to the Common-wealth harmful to the Clergy themselves what says the Church Is she for Bellarmin or Reason You and I have kept a great coyl to little purpose if she stand fast to Bellarmin and all our past labour is e'en much ado about nothing For what avails it to shut up the great gate of Direct and back door of Indirect Power if there be still a way under-ground to get into the house All hitherto said in behalf of Princes is that the Pope cannot take away their Kingdoms for any cause What is this better than a Cheat if he can even without any cause take away their subjects For what is a Kingdom good for and indeed what is it but the subjects Consider what a Prince he were into whose Dominions strangers might enter in what numbers they pleased without his leave and plant and settle themselves and live without subjection to him And tell me what difference there is whether those men be strangers or natives This is at least a partial Deposition a fair step to a total and in some respect worse For that may be avoided by a Prince who will alwaies do what the Pope pleases and give him no hold since it cannot be put in practice without Demerit But from this no even Merit can preserve any Prince The Pope not only may but of necessity must depose him from all Soverainty over as many as belong to the Clergy And how far may that carry Exemptions if I mistake not are extended to the Families of Clergy-men too and so as many servants as they take so many subjects the Prince loses What if they should stretch it a little farther to honorary servants too and bring exemptions into fashion as well as Protections I should wonder if all this and twenty times as much might not be deduc'd from the Law of Nature too in Bellarmin's method inevidently and unnecessarily What if they should yield sometimes to the frailty of nature and out of Avarice or Revenge take their Neighbours Goods or life If they cannot be Indited but are exempt from that Fear which is the great security men in community have of their Lives and Fortunes I suspect 't will not be good living too near a Clergy-man But to leave such unlikely Speculations the Clergy especially in their Countries where Religious abound are considerable even in number and every where in quality for the Influence they have over the people more I believe than any other kind of those into which the people are divided Consider what fine doings there would be if the most considerable part of a Nation owe no subjection to the Prince no contribution to the common necessities no obedience to the Laws in short be a part of the Nation and no part of the Common-wealth What Title have they to the benefits of it who bear no share in the burthens What to the protection of Laws who break them at pleasure What pretence to security in the enjoyment of their Goods from which they who secure them can promise themselves no assistance upon occasion Other mens estates are so theirs that they are more the Common-wealths which can at any time take as much of them as the publick necessities require With what comes to the Clergy she has no more to do more than to keep it safe to them that they may keep it safe from her and be a Guard for them against her self Consider what this imports I mistake if I have not heard of times and places in which a fourth part of the value of the whole has been in the Clergys hands Riches being the strength of a Nation that Nation was plainly a fourth part weaker than it would have been otherwise But whatever be the proportion what the Clergy gets the Common-wealth loses and I suspect there are few which can with safety bate any part of their strength I will say no more believing that you see enough what I would be at Either dam up the Spring if you judge as I do the waters unwholsome or shew they are wholsom Chuse which you please only let me not long bear the burthen of the impatient curiosity which is now upon Yours c. I must needs add a word of what every body talks of What work has their Religion made among us Pray tell me what you think of the matter for I will refer it to your self and make you Judge whether it be for a rational man to entertain a good thought of a Religion which has set a whole Nation in a flame Excuse my Freedom or if you will bluntness Reproaches I know ill become the mouth of a Friend at any time and have something of inhuman in affliction They are not meant to You but to that restless Spirit which haunts your Religion a Spirit which no moderation and good usage of others no hazard and inconvenience of your own can charm into quiet a Frenzy which keeps you