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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A57857	The good old way defended against the attempts of A.M. D.D. in his book called, An enquiry into the new opinions, (chiefly) propogated by the Presbyterians of Scotland : wherein the divine right of the government of the church by Presbyters acting in parity, is asserted, and the pretended divine right of the hierarchie is disproved, the antiquity of parity and novelty of Episcopacy as now pleaded for, are made manifest from scriptural arguments, and the testimony of the antient writers of the Christian-church, and the groundless and unreasonable confidence of some prelatick writers exposed : also, the debates about holy-days, schism, the church-government used among the first Scots Christians, and what else the enquirer chargeth us with, are clearly stated, and the truth in all these maintained against him : likewise, some animadversions on a book called The fundamental charter of Presbytery, in so far as it misrepresenteth the principles and way of our first reformers from popery, where the controversie about superintendents is fully handled, and the necessity which led our ancestors into that course for that time is discoursed / by Gilbert Rule ...	Rule, Gilbert, 1629?-1701.	1697 (1697)	Wing R2221; ESTC R22637	293,951	328

Diligence to the next Assemblie which last our Author overlooketh 16. His Translating of Ministers is no more but that his Consent or that of the whole Church must be had to a Transportation it was then necessarie when there was no Presbyteries to Judge of such Matters 17. He greatly mistaketh when he saith that the Assemblie Enacteth that Ministers for the General Assemblie should be brought with the Superintendents c. which he will have to be Nominating them and he alloweth the rest of the Synod but a Consent whereas Spotsw p. 219. words it such as the Superintendents shall choose in their Diocesan Synods If he could choose them by himself there needed no Synod for this end that Expression can signifie no less than the Synods suffrage in the Election My Lord Gla●… Letter that he mentioneth is not Authentick 18. He held Diocesan Synods because he was their Moderator 19. They might appoint Fasts is their bounds but with Advice of the Ministers 20. Modifying of Stipend● is no Spiritual Power and therefore impertinently here brought in 21. Appeals was made to him and his Synodal Convention here is no sole Jurisdiction 22. His power of Fineing is no Spiritual Power 23. Determining Cases of Conscience and otheir Questions was never committed to him alone but in the Synod and to them Yea Questions so determined were to be reported to the General Assemblie next ensewing so that Manuscript that he so often Citeth p. 14. 24. To judge of Divorces is a civil Power and not to our purpose 25. It is clear by his own Relation that the Injunction of Pennance as he calleth it is to be by the Superintendent with the Synod 26. Restoring of Criminals or Absolution did the same way belong to him 27. Notifying Criminals to the Magistrat is no part of Jurisdiction 28. Excommunication was not to be done by his sole Authority but by his Advice 29. His Power over Colleges And 30. His Licensing of Booke both of them Depend on the Civil Power and are not to our present purpose These short Notes may shew how little cause there is for his Triumph with which he concludeth this his Enumeration of the Superintendents Prerogatives They prove a Disparity between him and other Ministers I confess which the Church in that her State thought necessarie for a time but on the other hand it is evident that some of them Prove as much Disparitie from and inconsistencie with the Prerogatives of a Diocesan Bishop which our Brethren plead for as belonging to him Jure Divino § 12. His next Work from p. 140. is to dissipat the Mist wherewith the Paritie Men are so very earnest to darken the Prelatical Power of the Superintendents he mentioneth Three of their Exceptions The 1. Is it was not intended to be a perpetual standing Office but was Temporary and for the then Necessities of the Church For this he Citeth Calderwuod and Petrie asserting this with whom I do cordially joyn Against this he thus reasoneth p. 142. whether it was Temporary or not it was Prelacy and this is all that I am concerned for And to Forti●e this he taketh in by force a Similitude from the Presbyterians making Address to King James a rare but useless piece of Wit Ans. If he be concerned for no more than this we are agreed And he yieldeth that our Reformers were not Episcopal but Presbyterian who in a case of extream Necessity gave for a time more Power to one Minister than another but made them all equal assoon as that Necessity was over It is such an Argument as if there were but one Congregation with their Minister and Elders in an Island they manage Church Discipline by themselves but assoon as they encrease and there are moe People and church Officers and more Congregations they set up a Presbyterie to which all the Congregations and their Pastors are Subordinate will any say that they are Independents because they were forced to Act Independentlie at first there is as little reason to conclude that our Reformers were Episcopal though they were forced to use a kind of Prelacie for a time Beside that I have above shewed some considerable Differences between the Prelacie of Superintendents and that of Bishops which our Brethren plead for § 13. His second Undertaking is to shew that we have no sufficient Ground in the Records of these times for pretending that the Office of Superintendents was designed to be Temporal To prove his Assertion he saith he hath seen no more insisted on to make out this but a Phrase in the first Head of the Book of Discipline at this time He transcribeth the whole Passage out of Petrie Cent. 16. p. 218. and so must I what was their the Superintendents Office saith he appears by the first Book of Discipline wherein it is written thus we consider that if the Ministers whom God hath endued with his singular Graces among us should be appointed to several places there to make continual Residence that then the greatest part of the Realm should be destitute of all Doctrine which should be not only the occasion of great Murmure but also dangerous to the Salvation of many and therefore we have thought it a thing expedient at this time that from the whole Number of Godly and learned Men now presently in this Realm be selected ten or twelve for in so many Provinces we have divided the whole to whom Charge and Commandment should be given to Plant and Erect Kirks to set Order and appoint Ministers as the former Prescribed to wit the former Head to the Countries that shall be appointed to their Care where none are now Afterward it is added these must not be suffered to live as their idle Bishops have done neither must they remain where they gladly would but they must be Preachers themselves and such as may not make long Residence in one place till the Kirks be Planted and provided of Ministers c. To this our Author replyeth by giving us a Sense of his own of these Words in the first Book of Discipline viz. that because there were then so few Qualified for the Office of Superintendencie the Ten or Twelve were by far too few for the whole Kingdom yet at that time they thought it expedient to Establish no more and though when the Church should be sufficiently Provided with Ministers it will be highly reasonable that the Superintendents should have Places appointed them for their continual Residence yet in that Juncture it was necessary that they should be constantly travelling into their Districts to Preach and Plant Churches Before I Examine what he saith to Prove this to be the true Gloss of that Passage I shall Prove it to be contrarie to and inconsistent with the Passage it self And 1. There is nothing in that Discourse that doth so much as insinuate the scarcitie of Men fit to be Superintendents but of Ministers fit to Preach to the People they no way hint that this Setlement

the Countrie and in Villages as well as in Cities 2. That the City Bishops had no Authority over the chorepiscopos or Countrie Bishops 3. That there were but two sorts of Church Officers Bishops and Deacons besides some other things which are not so much to our present design Our Author in his Answer overlooketh the two former which tend most to ruine his Cause for the Bishops of that time could not be Diocesans but Pastors of Congregations if these two Observations hold as they plainly follow from Clement's words and he insisteth only on the third the Dichotomie of the Clergy which hath less probative for●… than the rest yet it hath more strength in it than his Answers are able to enervate which I now shall make appear His Answer is that he hath already answered our Argument taken from the Dichotomie of the Clergie Reply Though we do not make that an Argument by it self in all cases where it is found yet in some cases and this in particular it is concludent Clement is here giving account what Officers the Apostles settled in the Churches and if they settled Bishops distinct from Presbyters and Deacons this account is very lame and useless His second Answer is p. 44 c. Clement by Deacons here understandeth all Ministers of Religion whether Presbyters in the Modernnotion or Deacons who by the first Institution were obliged to attend upon Tables And so by Bishops and Deacons we may saith our Author understand Apostles Bishops Presbyters and Attendents upon Tables And then at great length he proveth that which no body denyeth that the word Deacon is used i● a great Latitude for all sorts of Church Officers Reply The Question is not how the word Deacon may be used in some cases on some occasions but what Clement here understandeth by it I affirm that it is absurd to understand it here in that Latitude that our Author fancieth For first his meaning should be the Apostles appointed in the Churche● that they settled Apostles Bishops Presbyters and Attendents on Tables so that every Church in every Village must have its Apostle and Bishop too beside inferior Officers 2. If Clement had so meant it was superfluous to mention Bishops and Deacons too it had been enough to tell the Corinthians that the Apostles settled Deacons that is Officers in Churches seing all sorts are signified by Deacons 3 To say that Presbyters are to be understood by Deacons rather than by Bishops is without all imaginable ground the word Presbyter is as largely used in Scripture as that of Deacon if we thus at pleasure expound Names or rather Words we may maintain what we will 4. This Dichotomy being used on such a design as to inform the people what were the ordinary Officers in the Church by Apostolick Warrand that they were to have regard to it would not answer its end if there were Bishops whom they and the Presbyters must obey for either they were to understand that the Presbyters were comprehended under the word Bishops but then they had no Instruction about the Ruling Bishop and the Teaching Bishop as distinct and how they should regard each of them or under the word Deacon and then they were at as great a loss what sort of Deacons he meant whether the Rulers or Servants of the Church 5. Though the word Deacon be often applyed to any who serve God in publick Office in his Church yea or in the State yet that ever the Rulers or Teachers of the Church are signified by it when it is used distinctively from some other sort of Church Officers as it is here is more than I know § 4. Another Answer he bringeth to this Passage of Clement p 46. that Clement speaketh not of Ecclesiastical Policy as it was at last perfected by the Apostles but of the first beginnings of the Christian Church immediatly after the Resurrection of Christ. Reply If it be granted that at first the Aposties settled Churches to be ruled by Presbyters and served by Deacons as this Answer seemeth to yield they must let us know the Grounds on which they believe that the Apostles did alter this Policy and set Bishops over the Churches that they had once thus settled we find no Warrand in Scripture for this Conceit though I know that some of our Prelatick Brethren affirm that the Churches were governed by Presbyters under the Inspection of the Apostles while they lived but after their Death Bishops were appointed to rule over them We may rationally expect that they should give us good assurance for this Change which yet I have not seen if they will bring Arguments for it we shall consider them A 4th Answer he bringeth p. 47. that Clement's words cannot bear such Parity as Presbyterians plead for because he doth also Dichotomise the Jewish clergy among whom were the High Priest Chief Priests Priests and Levites Reply If Clement when he so divides the Jewish Clergy were on purpose instructing us how and by whom the Affairs of the Jewish Church were managed this Answer were pertinent but if this Distinction be used occasionly without this design it is not at all to the purpose in the one case Distinction is required in the other case it is enough to express the thing in general and undistinguished terms He bringeth yet a 5th Answer p 47 48. That Clement exhorting the Corinthians to Order and Harmony setteth before them the beautiful Subordinations under the Temple Service and immediatly recommends to them that every one should continue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his own order Reply If this Reasoning be at all significant it will conclude there must be a Pope as well as Bishops in the Christian Church as there was a High Priest over all the Priests and other Jews We must then understand Clement that there must be Order in the Christian Church as well as in the Jewish Church and every one must keep within the Station that God hath set him in but it noways hence followeth that there must be the same Degrees of Church Officers in the one that was in the other What he citeth out of Jerome Ep. ad Ewagr admitteth of the same Exposition and is plain to be the whole that Jerome intendeth by these words quod Aaron filii ejus atque Levitae in Templo fuerunt hoc sibi Episcopi Presbyteri vendicent in Ecclesia viz. That as in the Temple there was a Subordination of the Levites to Aaron and his Sons so should the Deacon be to the Presbyter whom Jerome through that whole Epistle proveth to be the same with the Bishop But it is like we may afterward hear more of this from our Author A 6th Answer is p. 48 49. for this Citation galleth him sore and maketh him look on all hands for Relief Clement himself distinguisheth the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the last may signifie Office and Age both together Reply He no otherways

sub Antecessoribus nostris factum est totum sibi vendicant This may seem plausible to such as know not the occasion of these words which was while Cyprian was retired from Carthage because of the Persecution some of the Presbyters without the rest took on them to absolve some of the Lapsed this Cyprian complaineth of as justly he might yea he had cause to complain that their Bishop that is constant Moderator of their Presbytery was neglected in this matter for that cause should have been determined in consessu Presbyterorum which should have been called together by him as Praepositus illis that is by their Choice made the constant Praeses of their Meeting There is no proof here of a solitude of Power nor of Cyprians Succession to the Apostles which is the thing that our Author citeth it for more than the rest of the Presbyters did The special notice that is here taken of his being neglected proceeded from the Genius of that Age wherein perpetual Presidency had set the Bishop a little higher in Dignity above the Presbyters than they had been from the beginning Another Citation which also misseth the mark viz. Succession to the Apostles is that Cyprian saith Ecclesia super Episcopos constituitur omnis actus Ecclesiae per eosdem gubernatur and saith this is Divina lege fundatum All this may be understood of Scripture Bishops that is all the Presbyters and if ye will take it of the Cyprianick Bishop that is the Praeses we assent to it as truth provided we understand not these Bishops in their single Capacity but in Conjunction with their Presbyters the Church is set on all Pastors who teach sound Doctrine with respect to her Soundness in the Faith and Edification in Holiness on the Presbytery or ruling part among whom in Cyprians time the Praeses or Bishop was specially taken notice of tho he did not rule by himself with respect to her good Order and that all this is Juris Divini I no way doubt If our Author can make out sole Jurisdiction from these words he must bring better Arguments than I have yet seen Again Cyprian saith the Bishops succeeded to the Apostles vicaria ordinatione This is also granted and may be understood of all Pastors of the Church and we deny it not of the praesides Presbyteriorum who were peculiarly called Bishops they succeeded to the Apostles as Ministers of the Gospel but that they either had the Plenitude of Apostolick Power or that their Presidency as a distinct Office or superior Degree was by Succession from the Apostles we deny and it is not proved from Cyprians words Their ruling power they have with the rest by Divine or Apostolick Institution that there be a Presidency is of the Law of Nature and hath Scripture example the person who should preside is to be chosen by common consent nor do we find any warrant from Scripture either that he should have power superior to the rest or that this Presidency should always be in one person He bringeth also Tertullian saying percurre Ecclesias Apostolicas apud quas ipsae adhuc Cathedrae Episcoporum suis locis praesident habes Corinthum habes Ephesum habes Romam This Testimony importeth no more than that there continueth in the Churches planted by the Apostles a Government to this day Gathedrae cannot be strained to signifie a Bishop with sole Jurisdiction the Notion of that word is sufficiently Answered by a Judicature in the Church where one presideth which we say should be in every Church He is so consident of his Conclusion that he desireth us to read Cyprian himself we do it Sir and think not fit to take all on Trust that is cited out of him by your Party and he thinketh the Disingenuity of Blondel and his Associats will appear to the highest Degree I desire on the other hand that he would read him with an Unbyassed Mind and then all this Airy Confidence will evanish That he asserteth p. 123. that the Authority of Bishops over Presbyters Deacons and Laity will appear to them who read Cyprian is denyed except in the sense that I yielded in the Book above pointed at they have joynt power with the rest of the Consistory over one another and over the whole Church § 30. I proceed with him p. 123. to his second Enquiry Whether the Ancients insisted frequently on this Succession of single Persons to the Apostles in particular Sees in their Reasoning against Hereticks I acknowledge that they frequently Reasoned from the Doctrine that had been taught by persons succeeding to the Apostles in particular Churches and that they named particular Men or single Persons in that Succession but that they laid any weight on their being single Persons whom they so named or that they lookt on these as the only Successors of the Apostles in these Churches we deny and have not yet seen it proved It is the same thing as to the Strength of their Reasoning whether one Minister or more had the Power of Governing these Churches Wherefore if we should yield him all that he is here enquiring for it doth not advantage his Cause nor hurt ours unless it be made appear that the single persons so named were the sole or supreme Rulers in these Churches which I am well assured is not proved by any of the Testimonies that he bringeth His first Citation is out of Tertull. whose Argument is plainly this that the Hereticks could not shew the beginning of their Churches as the Orthodox could do from persons placed then by the Apostles as Polycarp was by John at Smyrna and others in other places and he addeth perinde utique caeterae exhibent quos ab Apostoli in Episcopatum constitutos Apostolici seminis traduces habeant Here is no one word of Singularity of Power and it is certain that the Apostolici Seed of sound Doctrine might be transmitted to Posterity by a Plurality of Presbyters as well as by single Bishops yea and better too for if one erred the rest might correct him but if the Bishop erred there w●… none in that Church that might oppose him That Polycarp in Smyrna and none else is named doth not prove that he alone Preached the true Doctrine and far less that he Governed that Church by himself And indeed the Zeal and Unanimity that he mentioneth p. 125. was 〈◊〉 good mean of keeping the Doctrine of the Church pure but as this Unanimity could not be in one Church but among a Plurality of Tea chers so the Unanimity of a few Bishops in several Diocesses could not be so convincing in this matter as that with the Unanimity of Presbyters among themselves in these several Churches that they were to instruct Another Testimony of Tertull. he bringeth Ordo tamen Episcoporum ad originem recensus in Joannem stabit authorem There is nothing here but what hath been already Answered there was an Order or Succession of Bishops whereof John the Apostle

viz. his Epistles If we have no more Certainty about the Epistles than we have about the genuine Bones of that Holy Martyr and other Popish Relicks few wise Men will be much moved by Arguments brought from them That Polycarp made a Collection of these Epistles and Irenaeus cited them proveth no more but that good Men may be imposed on by Forged Writings Eusebius rejected some suppositions Books after accurate Enamination were a good Argument if it could be made out that he rejected all such the contrary whereof is well known For his Belief that the Orations of Cicero are genuine let him enjoy it but if he build his Faith on any Article of Religion or his Practice of Piety towards God on that Certainty I cannot do so too Whether Cicero wrote these Orations or not is neither a Matter of such Moment nor so contested by plausible Arguments as what we now Debate is § 45. What remains of my Antagonists Discourse on this Controversie about Episcopacy is a Recapitulation of what he hath already said in nine Questions which he seemeth to set down as so many Trophies of Victory over all his Adversaries and a few other Hints for strengthning his Cause His Questions need litle Animadversion all that is contained in them being already Answered and his Opinion in these things disproved whether concludently and solidly or not the Reader will judge His first three Questions do all suppose that we are against Prelacy merely from the Dichotomy of the Clergy used in Scripture which is a false Supposition I have proposed our Argument with more strength Sect. 4. § 5. so as it is no way touched by what he here saith wherefore it is no loss to our Cause if we give a negative or affirmative Answer to these Questions whether he shall chuse To his fourth Question I Answer that Apostolick Power as to its permanent Branches was perpetual and successive my Answer must be Tautological because his Question is such but not so as to all its Essential Branches As to its necessary Branches if he mean what is necessary to the Beeing or Idea of an Apostle I deny these to be Perpetual and Successive To the second part of this Question I Answer negatively that this Power was not transmitted in solidum to single Successors in particular Sees but to a Colledge of Presbyters Question fifth Where Superiority is forbidden is most impertinent to our Debate seing he pleadeth for a Jus Divinum for it he should bring either a Command for it or what is equivalent The Popes Monarchy over the Church is not more forbidden than the Superiority of one Priest as he speaketh over another both of them must be Juris Divini in his Opinion I retort his own Argument if Parity be not plainly forbidden which I am sure he cannot shew then the Fancy of a Jus Divinum in favours of Episcopacy such as is exclusive of all other Forms of Ecclesiastical Government is Groundless and Chymerical It is enough to us that Christ hath instituted Parity and he hath not allowed Men to change it we think this a sufficient Prohibition of the Superiority that he pleadeth for His sixth is a heap of Questions to which I Answer we deny the universal Tradition for Prelacy that he fancieth and say a more universal Tradition might be demanded We deny also that the Argument from universal Tradition exclusive of Apostolick Tradition if he can bring that he hath done his Work is in this Case either the most proper or most necessary Scripture Command or Example is both more proper and more necessary For the seventh we do not pretend there was such a great Change so suddenly as he fancieth we do and therefore are not concerned to Debate the Possibility of it I have said enough on this head § 41. To his eighth we affirm that Jeroms Opinion is fairly and truly represented by Presbyterians and have answered what he saith to the contrary Sect. 6. § 7. seq His last Question about Ignatius's Epistles may be retorted on himself whether there be any solid Argument brought for them sub judice lis est Himself declineth that Debate as I also do It is enough to us that even the Testimonies out of these Epistles are not concludent and if the Epistles were Authentick their Authority is but Humane and Fallible and cannot be a Prejudice against Divine Institution and indeed cannot make Faith where the Question is de Jure Divino as here it is § 46. I now proceed to consider some immethodical and incoherent Notions with which he concludeth this Chapter He telleth us p. 160. Presbyterians owne a Praesidency since the days of the Apostles he might have added and in their days too so that the Quarrel is not so much against Episcopacy as against the Extent of their Diocess and Increase of their Power over what it was in the Primitive times Now he will prove their Power over Presbyters to have been much more absolute than now it is pretended to be for nothing was to be done without the Bishop a Presbyter might not Baptize without his express Indulgence as Tertull witnesseth This Testimony of Tertull. I have answered Cyprianick Bishop Examed § 49. By Bishop may either be understood the Moderator not in his single Capacity but with the Presbytery none might act within their District but by their Allowance or a Parish Minister none might Baptize c. in his Parish but by his Consent He next citeth Dyonisius Bishop of Corinth writing to the Gnossians exhorting Pinytus their Bishop not to lay the heavy burden of Caelibacy I suppose that he meaneth by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on the Brethren that is the Clergy whence he wisely inferreth the Power of Pinytus to have done this And citeth on his Margin Euseb. hist. Eccles. but neither Book nor Chapter nor the place of Dionysius where the words may be found A. Euseb. hist. lib. 4. C. 23. hath a part of an Epistle of Dionysius to Pinytus and his Answer to him where he checketh Dionysius for that Advice to him But nothing of all this importeth the Power of Pinytus to forbid Marriage he might say on this burden by preaching the necessity of Caelibacy without Authoritative imposing it Yea he might impose it as Praeses by the concurrent Authority of the Presbytery without sole Jurisdiction He mentioneth likeways the Canon Apostol and Ignatius's Epistles but citeth nothing out of them so that he cannot expect an Answer As to the Extent of Diocesses we no further make an Argument from it than we maintain that a Pastor of a Church should have no larger Charge than he can dispense the Word and Sacraments to and that he should not do this by Deputies under him We lay no Stress on the word Diocess nor on the unequal Extent of a Pastors District provided he pretend to no Power over his Brethren nor have a Charge that he cannot manage without such Superiority over others

the Order Decencie and Policie that the LORD requireth in his Church may be obtained without them as the Patrons of them do on the Matter confess when they tell us that these and all the rest of the Ceremonies are in themselves and antecedently to the Churches imposing them indifferent Beside not the Principle only or the Opinion that Men have about these Days is condemned in these Scriptures but the Practice it self § 7. Our Fourth Reason is the imposing of the Holy Days doth derogate from that Christian Libertie that the LORD hath given to his People which the LORD doth not allow Gal. 5. 1. They are contrarie to this Libertie two ways 1. It is the Libertie of Christians to be under no Yoke in matters of Religion we refuse not civil Subjection to our Rulers in all lawful things but that of Christ to have him for their only Law-giver James 4. 12. He hath not given Power to Men to make new Laws for his Church but to declare his Laws and to Execute his Censures that he hath Appointed on the Breakers of them Wherefore when Christ hath given us one Holy day to be perpetually Observed and no more if Men will enjoyn moe Days they make Laws of their own and bring the People under their Yoke which is not Christs And the Places last Cited do evidently Import this The LORD had now delivered his People from the Yoke of Ceremonies which himself had laid on them and the false Apostles were endeavouring to wreath that Yoke still on their Necks and it is as much Bondage if any will wreath another Yoke upon them which is none of Christs now that Scripture biddeth them beware of such Yokes 2. The fourth Commandment alloweth the People of GOD six days of the Week for their lawful worldly Imployments this Instituting of Holy days Abridgeth that Libertie and that merely by the Authoritie of Men. It is not so when occasional Solemnities are Appointed because the Religious Solemn Work on which abstinencie from Labour doth necessarily follow is determined by the Lord and intimated to us by his Providence the Church doth no more but Chuse this Day rather than that If it be said that Magistrats may Restrain People from their Work for civil Causes why not then for Religious Reasons Answer Men have not the the same Power in Religion as in Civil Things though restraint from Work is the same in both so is not the occasion the one must be chosen by the LORD the other may by Men. Beside that Magistrats must have some good Ground for such Restraint otherwise they will not be appointed of GOD though obeyed by the People I might here add all the Arguments that we commonly use against Humane Ceremonies in Religion that it is an Addition to the Word or Rule that GOD hath managed the Affairs of His house by A symbolizing with the Papists without Necessitie It is Superstition being above and beyond what GOD hath Enjoyned c. I shall only adde that the Scripture calleth the weekly Sabbath the LORDS Day as a Name of distinction from other Days but it could be no distinguishing Name if the Nativitie Circumcision c. were all Dedicated to our LORD for every one of these were the LORDS Day as well as it And therefore when John said he was in the Spirit on the LORDS Day we could not know whether it was Christmass day or Easter day or Good Friday or the first of January the Circumcision Day or some ordinary first day of the Week § 8. I come now to Examine what my Antagonist bringeth for his Holy Days and against our Opinion He sayeth p. 169. they were Originally appointed to Commemorat the Mysteries of our Redemption with all possible Zeal gratitude and Solemnity If he can shew us that Christ or his Apostles appointed them for these Ends we shall lay our hand on our Mouth and not mutter against them but if they be so Appointed by Men we ask quo warranto CHRIST himself hath appointed Ordinances for these Ends particularly the LORD'S Supper is Instituted as a Commemoration of the Mysteries of our Redemption this do in remembrance of Me if he hath said so of any of the Controverted Holy Days we shall receive them But I desire to know what Power the ordinarie Pastors of the Church have to Institute special Ordinances for commemorating the Mysteries of our Redemption I shall further Debate this with him by and by Mean while I observe that he is beyond many of his Brethren who disown the Mysterie of these Days and all Religious Worship in the Observation of them and set them no higher than that they are for Decencie Order and Policie And himself some times when it is for his purpose seemeth to be of the same mind as p. 170. he frameth an Objection to himself from the Abuse of them which alas is too notour and gross and frequent His Answer is so may the most Holy Exercises and the highest Mysteries and there is nothing so Sacred in Religion or so universally useful in Nature against which some such Objection may not be started I do much wonder that a Man of his pretensions to Learning and Reading and who doth so superciliously despise others for defectiveness in both should so superficially Propose so slightly Answer an Argument that hath been so much insisted on and his Answer so fully refuted Doth he not know if he hath Read any thing of the Controversie about Ceremonies that the Presbyterians never pleaded that Holy Exercises Mysteries of Religion or things universally useful in Nature yea or what hath the Stamp of Divine Authoritie were it never so small should be Abandoned because Abused The Abuse should be Reformed and the thing retained But this our Argument speaketh only of indifferent things which have no intrinsick Necessitie nor Command of GOD to injoyn them these we say and have often Proved it should be removed when grosly and frequently Abused and that the Holy Days are so indifferent I think he will not deny if he do deny it he is obliged to prove the Necessitie of them not only against the Presbyterians but also against his own Partie who reckon them among the Indifferent things the Regulating of which is in the Courches Power § 9. I now Consider his Debate with the Vindicator of the Kirk as he calleth him about this verie Matter and particularly about observing the anniverssary Feast of CHRISTS Nativity which we call Christmass The Reader who is at pains to Compare that Book from p. 27. with what my Antagonist here sayeth against it will find that the most part and the most material Passages and what is most Argumentative in that Book to this purpose are passed over in silence and but a few things touched The first thing he is pleased to Notice is I had said the Question is not about the Commemoration of it the Nativity of CHRIST but whether this Commemoration should be by an

no cause to think otherwise of them and I think this will not be Contested between him and me All the Question that remaineth is whether the Teachers of the Church had equal Power and Ruled in Parity or had Bishops set over them who had the Power of Ruling the Church the rest having only Power to Teach We are for their Equality of Power my Antagonist for Episcopal Jurisdiction to have been even then in the Church of Scotland I do agree with him that this is questio facti and must be determined by Testimonie and that of Credible Witnesses who might know the Truth of what they Assert I have brought Credible History for what we say all which he Rejecteth as fabulous some of his Party particularly Spotswood bring Instances of Bishops in Scotland at that time without any to Attest the Truth of what he Writeth Which of us then go on the best grounds Our Author had in the Apology which I take to be his pretended to Refute what I had Written on this Head First Vindic. Question 1. p. 4. 5. all that he saith in the Apology I Answered Deff of Vindic. p. 36. 37. he doth in the Book now before me endeavour to Answer part of what was said as he had also done in the Apology overlooking what he thought not fit to touch I shall now Consider what he here saith omitting nothing that is Material He hath not yet cleared his Assertion that Blondel took that History of the Culdees ruling the Church from Buchanan and his temporarie Monks Boetius and others or such as were little removed from his own Age. For Blondel doth not mention one Monk contemporarie with Buchanan nor any Monk save Fordon who was far removed from his Age wherefore the Objection from the Word Contemporarie is not Obviated nor Answered by any thing said in this or his former Book It was Objected that his Rejeing the Writers whose Testimonies were brought as incompetent Witnesses was to Raze the Foundation of the History of our Nation which he Answereth by shewing that it is the Establishing not Razing of History to require Competent Witnesses for what we Believe This is to divert into another Question what was blamed in him was not that Witnesses whose Testimony we receive must be Competent but whether these adduced by me in the Debate were such I only Mark here not Examine being aside from our present Debate what he saith p. 230. that if History be Destroyed and the Moral Certainty that is conveighed by Testimony he must mean Humane Testimony then the Authority of Revelation falleth and Atheism is Introduced at least boundless Sceptecilm and uncertainty Whether this tendeth not to make Scripture and all our Religion to Depend on the Churches Testimony let it be Considered If the Vindicator said that we may believe a Matter of Fact without sufficient Evidence let him be loaded with as many Epithets as he can Invent he Pleaded that Buchanan Boetius Major Fordon Usher the Centuriators Baronius Beda and Prosper had given Account of the Affairs of the Scots Church and if none of these be Competent Witnesses our Historie is lost and cannot be made up by the Collateral Testimony of some of the Roman Historians who spake of our Affairs obiter § 2. Our Author is at a great deal of Pains from p. 231. to Prove that no History is to be Believed unless it be ●ttested by sufficient Witnesses who had occasion to know what they Affirm I would gladly know who Opposeth him in this he fully Proveth what was never Denyed by any Body so far as I know nor can it be Denyed by any Man in his Wits I mean without this History cannot be Believed upon the Faith of these Witnesses which are thus incompetent for by other Topicks a Matter of Fact done 1000 years ago may be sufficiently Proved as the Learned Heideggerus Proveth both many Antediluvian and Postdiluvian Passages by Consequences drawn from Scripture in his Excellent Book Historia Patriarcharum Wherefore I look on Du Lamy's Work de Authoritate Argumenti negantis in Quaestionibus facti to be of good use and that the Popish legends are by that Argument solidly refused I confess also that there is much strength in Eusebius his neglecting of some Books as Spuroius because not sufficiently Attested Only I shall take Notice of a few things in his Managing of this his Discourse though I fully assent to the Conclusion of it viz. that History must be sufficiently Attested and then I shall State this Question about the Credebility of History a little more clearly than he hath done And 1. I observe that p. 233. he denyeth that quaestio facti can be otherwise Determined The contrarie of which I have already shewed viz. that it may be Determined in some cases by Consequences drawn from uncontested Matters of Fact Next he saith ibid. that the Presbyterians hold the Affirmative in the present Debate about our ancient Church-Government this is Questionable if it be not downright a Mistake it is confessed on both hands that the Culdees taught the Church at that time the Question is either whether they were Bishops or not we hold the Negative or if he Word it thus whether they were any more than Presbyters we say no or whether there were Bishops set over these Teaching Culdees or not we are still for the Negative wherefore we might put him to Prove his Affirmative I further Object that in the end of the same page he insinuateth that they against whom he Debateth do believe all things without Examining the Testimonies on which their Credibilitie is founded We do not so with any thing of Moment far less with all things Yea we do not so in the Case now under Debate Another Remark I make on what he hath page 231. and 235. If a Matter of Fact be not Attested by any Credible Author living within 200 years of the Period in which such a Thing is said ●o have happened it is to be lookt on as a Fable and he addeth that Du Launy supposed that Orall Tradition could not carry any Matter of Fact further and to Ridicule any who might think otherwise he hath devised a Ridiculous Storie of the King of China This may suffer a little Correction and must not be taken as a Principle neither on his Authority nor Du Launy's more than a Storie of 200 years old can be 1. It is hard to fix a Period how far Orall Tradition can hand down a Storie to Posteritie especially if it be not about the Credenda of Religion If I can believe a Storie of 200 years old from a grave and wise Author whose veracity I do not Question I know not why the Addition of 50 or a 100 years more should make it incredible if it come from the same hand Wherefore this is too peremptorie a Decision there are on the other hand many cases in which Oral Tradition may be very doubtful in far less time than

of their own Time as many of the Historians that our Author layeth much Weight on have done but consider Things as then they were Stated and bring probable Grounds either from the Histories written by credible Persons in or near that Time or from any other Medium § 4. I now proceed to the Vindication of our Argument from History for the first Christians in Scotland being Governed without Bishops He mistakes when he saith that I bring Blondel as a Historical Witness of this I mentioned him only as Citing these Authors which assert it Which are Joan. Major de gest Scotor lib. 2. c. 2. Per Sacerdotes Monachos sine Episcopis Scoti in fide sunt eruditi and before him Fordon Scoto-Chronicon lib. 3. c. 8. Ante Palladii adventum habebant Scoti fidei Doctores Sacramentorum Ministratores Presbyteros solummodo vel Monachos Ritum sequentes Ecclesiae Primitivae It is true Blondel citeth also Boet who was later than either of them But what he citeth out of him seemeth not to be so much to his Purpose wherefore I wave that Testimony Our Authors Answer to the other two Testimonies is they were not competent Witnesses living at so great a Distance from the Time they speak of To which I Reply First they cannot be esteemed Partial Witnesses being both of them Papists and not Presbyterians and it may be rationally thought that if they had no sufficient Ground for what they said they would rather have either said what made for the Way they owned or at least suppressed what they had no good Warrant to assert against their own Way To this he saith p. 245. that the Monks advanced this Fable to gratifie the Popes Design of Exempting the Religious Orders from Episcopal Jurisdiction Reply This doth not meet with our Case for Major was no Monk and so not concerned to tell a Lie to please the Pope in that Design And for Fordon whatever Temptation he might have to endeavour the Lessening of the Extent of the Episcopal Power he would not design to root out Episcopacy wholly out of Scotland which this Testimony tendeth to for the Period he speaketh of contrary to the universal Sentiments of that Church whereof he was a Member Wherefore that Consideration doth no way derogat from the Credibility of his Testimony Secondly We have no Ground to think that these Historians spake by Guess or that they invented this Story for the contrary of it cannot be proved and the thing it self is not impossible yea Sir George Mackenzy in his Advertisement before his Book against Saint Asaph maketh it appear that in our Countrey there were very Ancient Manuscripts and that the Priests learned our ancient History from the Druids and he maketh it clear p. 2. c. that our Histories of which that of Fordon and Major are a part being received by the Generality of Mankind especially by Criticks Antiquaries and Historians ought not now to be called in Question And I must still think for all that he hath said in Opposition to it that the History of our Nation falleth if these Authors are not to be believed seing without them he shall never be able to make up a Scots History out of Roman Authors Thirdly The same Author p. 5. sheweth that Men satisfie themselves in most things with the general Belief and Tradition of a People that Manuscripts infer no Mathematical Certainty but the Authors of them might mistake that the Histories of all Nations are no better founded All which sheweth how unreasonable it is to Question the Authority of these Histories especially when none do so but one who is straitned with an Argument brought from their Testimony against a Cause that he is fond of It is also much to our Purpose that the Learned Usher de primord Eccles. Brit. 808. citeth the same Passages with Approbation he citeth also Balaeus de scriptor Britan. affirming that Palladius was sent ut Sacerdotalem Ordinem Romano Ritu institueret which we may rationally think was to set up Bishops Also the Learned Doctor Forbes Iren. p. 157. citeth the same Passage of Major and addeth of his own adeo ut Ecclesia Scoticana plus quam 230 annos erat absque Regimine Episcopali and Forbes was Zealous for Episcopacy § 5. The Testimony of these Historians is supported by other Historians who shew Palladius was the first Bishop that Ruled in the Scots Christian Church and that Church had Subsisted and had Government and others of Christs Ordinances in it above two hundred years before Palladius came among them This is Attested by Baronius and his Epitomator Spondanus ad ann 431. and by them taken out of Prosper see Spondan p. 592. this is more fully cleared first Vind. p. 4. His Answer to this I now consider He saith p. 244. that the Controversie cometh to this whether Prosper saith that two hundred years before Palladius was sent to the Scots there was a Presbyterian Church in Scotland this is a ridiculous State of the Question and made by none but himself we affirm that Prosper said that Palladius was the first Bishop sent to the Scots and we aliunde prove that there was a Christian Church in Scotland two hundred years before that time Whence the Consequence is clear that during that Space the Scots Christians had no Bishops I must ly under his Charge of Supine Negligence in not Reading the Authors I cite I only may be bold to require him to make that appear That he thus attempteth Baronius saith in the same Place of Palladius Quem perductum etiam ad Hiberniam Insulam sed cito mortuum Probus in rebus gestis Sancti Patricii scripsit dictum est superius Hibernorum quidem Conversionem Deus Sancto Patricio reservavit I hope the Judicious Reader will neither think it a Token of Supine Negligence nor of my not Reading the Books I cite that I did not Transcribe this For it was no ways to the Purpose in hand it might as well be so Constructed that I did not write over all that followeth in Baronius about Saint Patricks Descent about his Ordination his Instruction in Divinity c. But the Weight of his Objection lyeth in this that Baronius and Spondanus understood Prosper so as that Palladius was sent to Ireland and not to that part of Britain that we call Scotland Here the Enquirer giveth me Occasion to return the Civility of a good Advice to him that he would consider what he Readeth and what he Citeth out of Authors for it is against all Sense and Reason to make Baronius and Spondanus either mean this in this Passage or so to understand Prosper of a Mission to Ireland and not to Scotland It is to make a flat Contradiction between their Meaning and their Words Whereas they say Sanctus Prosper missum ait Palladium ordinatum Episcopum ad Scotos quem perductum etiam ad Hiberniam c. The Meaning then must be to our Author tho he