great and waightie causes will be a sufficient starting hole to saue all vpright themselues froÌ„ pronouncing the definitiue sentence against themselues that their doing is not the dutie of true Pastors No that will not helpe them For these matters beeing but ceremoniall matters as they call them and so not great and waightie what great waightie causes should moue a true Pastor by his priuate iudgement to controll publike order in those thinges that are concluded by lawefull authoritie of the Church concerning ceremonial matters for order and comlines sake for aedification Shal any priuate man thinke if he think them to be indéede the Church of God that the Churches concluding of those thinges by lawefull authoritie proceeded not of greater and waightier causes than his controllment And therefore except men shall make so litle light account of the true Church of God and of her conclusions and orders by lawefull authoritie as to preferre euerie priuate mans or Pastors priuate iudgement before hers our Brethren by this their owne conclusion must either néedes yéeld to the Church of Englandes publike conclusion and lawfull authoritie concerning these ceremoniall matters that they are to be obserued for order and comelines sake and for aedification as the Church of England hath decréed them and not to controll publike order by priuate iudgement or else let our Brethr. herken to their owne conclusiue sentence and determination that they do not the dutie of true Pastors And thus much also for these ceremonies We haue hetherto intreated of the proper dutie of a Pastor himselfe now it followeth that we likewise set foorth his authoritie in common gouernement with the Elders But least any man should mistake that which we purpose to say of his authoritie we haue need to expresse what we meane by this worde authoritie For euen those things that we haue shewed before to be the dutie of a Pastor may also be called his authoritie as to preach and teach wherein is included his authoritie to forgiue and reteine sinnes Also his authoritie to minister the sacraments and to doe other thinges in the Church which none may doe but he But in this place we vnderstande authoritie for power of gouernement in the Church Whereof the Apostle speaketh that it is one of the graces and giftes of God necessarie for the building of his Church This authority of regiment we haue declared that it ought not to be a Lordly ruling neither ouer their flocke nor yet ouer their fellow seruants and brethren and least of all that they ought to haue dominion or Lordship ouer the faith of the Church Our Brethren here promise to sette foorth that part of the Pastors authoritie which they say he hath not of the proper dutie of a Pastor himselfe but in common gouernement with the Elders But because these wordes as they are grounded on the presupposall of that Eldershippe which they make one part of their Ecclesiasticall Tetrarchie not dealing with the woorde so promising â—o treate of the authoritie of the Pastor in common gouernement they séeme their selues to doubt that except they should expounde what they meane thereby it might easily bee mistaken what they meant Neither doubt they this mistaking without a cause which of purpose shunne the plaine and vsuall approoued distinction of the authoritie or power of the order and of the iurisdiction But what-so-euer authoritie of the Pastor they will nowe sette foorth and make playne what they meane thereby when as they faye For euen those thinges which wee haue shewed before to be the dutie of a Pastor may also bee called his authoritie as to preache and teach wherein is included his authoritie to forgiue and retaine sinnes if this authoritie of the Pastor to forgiue and retayne sinnes bee included in his authoritie of preachinge and teaching and withall this bee a thing appertaining to the proper dutie of a Pastor himselfe as also is his authoritie to minister the Sacramentes and to doe other thinges in the Churche which none may doe but hee then haue not the Elders to deale in the authoritie of forgiuing and retayning sinnes For if they shoulde they shoulde intermeddle with the worde For this is included in preaching and teaching But our Brethren exclude the gouerning Elders from preaching and teaching therefore withall they exclude them from the authoritie of forgiuing and retayning sinnes And this by the way is not vnnecessarie to bee héere obserued because afterwarde they giue authoritie of forgiuing and retayning sinnes vnto the gouerning Elders which they confesse are not Teachers nor Preachers nor dealers at all with the worde But doeth not this authoritie of the Pastor belong to iurisdiction And therefore not onely the authoritie of his order to which properly preaching and teaching and ministring the Sacramentes doe appertayne but the authoritie also of iurisdiction to which the power of forgiuing and retayning sinnes appertayneth is the proper dutie of the Pastor himselfe which none may doe but he and is an authoritie separate from that his authoritie which is in common gouernment with the Elders or with any other which are not Pastors in the Church And as for that power of gouernment in the Church whereof the Apostle speaketh 1. Cor. 12.28 That it is one of the graces and gifte of God necessarie for the building of his Church S. Paule maketh not all the graces and giftes of God which there he speaketh of necessarie for the building of his Church if we speake of such perpetuall necessitie as that the Church can neuer be without them For S. Paul reckoneth vp there great offices graces and giftes of God that are not necessarie in that sense As euen the first office that he beginneth there withall of Apostles besides the giftes of healinges the giftes of powers or of working mightie myracles and the gifts of diuerse kinds of languages All which are not now so necessary in our dayes nor many hundreth yeres sithence to the building of Gods Church Neither is it agréeed vppon by the best interpreters what manner of grace and gift of God this power of gouernment in the Church was which S. Paule in that place speaketh of For albeit Beza say he declareth the order of Elders that were keepers of the Discipline and policie Ecclesiasticall yet sayth Aretius it is a politicall facultie of administring the common weale and of ruling others commodiouslie and of conseruing them in order which gift is necessarie in Magistrates And while the Churche wanted a politique Magistracie certaine choosen Elders gouerned the assemblyes of the faithfull as it were an ordinarie Magistracie Héere in déede hée sayeth this gifte is necessarie but he addeth in whome to witte in Magistrates and yet he specifieth in what kinde of Magistrates to witte politicall and in the administring of the common wealth not the Ecclesiastical discipline And withall he limiteth a time how long this gift of
â—et in Timothies person he gaue those precepts to all Bishops and Pastors wherein no other kinde of Elders ordinarily nor the congregation doâ— ioyne with the Bishops or Pastors in the authority of teaching though in obedience and consent of hearing And so in these matters concerning the hearing and determining of Ecclesiasticall Discipline and iudicial causes he giueth Timothy and in Timothies person other Bishops and such superior pastors as he was the charge and authority of a righteous Iudge But the Iudges authority is singuler to the Iudge and not communicated with other no though they sit on the Bench with him as his assistantes but such onely as are of his function Iudges as hee is and ioyned in the same commission with him How this authoritie was was not singular therefore S. Paule giueth to Timothy and in his person to Bishops and such Pastors a singular authority in hearing and determining of such matters Not singular I graunt as though none might heare them but hee alone or that hee might aske no counsell or consent of any other for such singularity were rather a deharre than a graunt of authority or were an insolent abuse thereof Neither so doth any Iudge if any assistants be on the bench with him But the Iudge onely hath the cheefe authority and that is his singuler authority though not absolute As for the Eldership whereof Saint Paul maketh mention a little before We haue heard also Caluines opinion thereon that it may be aswel vnderstoode in that place for the office of the Eldership as for any consistorie or company of the Elders And therfore vpon the vncertainty of that Worde they can builde little certaintie for their consistoriall Elders The conclusion which heere they make depending all vpon the premisses is no further to be graunted than the premisses do inferre The learned disc Pag. 98. 99. In steede of which Antichriste hath set vp a tyrannicall Iurisdiction of one Bishop to bee iudge of Excommunication which is practized neither for causes sufficient nor by sufficient authority insomuch as it hath bene already testified by the Scripture that the power of Excommunication is in no one man no not in an Apostle but is common to the whole Church and ought to be executed by lawfull delegats of the Church also The tyrannicall iurisdiction that Antichriste hath set vp we no more acknowledge Bridges than our Brethren But that all Iurisdiction of one B. to be Iudge of Excommunication which is practized for causes sufficient not onely to want sufficient authority but to be called tyrannical and set vp by Antichriste Is not truely spoken nor Christian like Except they will make S. Paul Antichriste As for that which they haue already testified by the Scripture doth manifestly confirme that one man as the Apostle and Timothy and in his person Slaunderous speeches Bishops and pastors in like manner may execute the power of excommunication For although this ecclesiasticall power be giuen to the Church as likewise the ciuil power is giuen to the assemblies and congregations of men How the power of Excommunication is giuen to the Church yet is neither of them common to the whole Church as our Brethren heere say but is proper to those persons in or of the Church and of the assemblies of men which persons are of God or man lawfully called therunto Neither are the persons that haue the practise and executing of the power of excommunication to be so properly calleâ— the Churches delegates as Gods delegates or Ministers in the same and represent God therein not the Church But admitting it be common to the whole church and yet ought onely to be executed by lawfull delegates of the church if that whole perticular church The Excommunicator is more properly Gods delegate than the Churches do make him that is their onely Lawfull Bishop to be also their onely Lawfull delegate in executing the power of Excommunication and doe not delegate a number of more with him then by their own confession some one man and that the Bishop may alone execute the authority and power of excommunication But so much that vsurped authoritie presumeth that the Bishoppe as an absolute owner thereof The learned discourse Pag 99. committeth it ouer to his Chauncellor or Archdeacon and the Archdeacon to his Officiall and he to his register and hee agayne to his substitute and his substitute to his seruaunts man or boy as it hapneth in so much that a learned Preacher may be excommunicated by a foolish boy If this matter seeme not to require speedy reformation God hath blinded our eyes that wee can not see the cleare light of the Sonne shining in our faces These terms of vsurpation presumption and to be as an owner and as an absolute owner of this authority Bridges are speeches considering the vntrueths and reprochfulnesse of them little beséâ—ming learned preachers And much lesse the other of committing this authorty to Registers and to substitutes and to the Substitutes seruantes man or boy I verily beleeue thad our Brethren if they were well apposed coulde not prooue any such Excommunication to bee made Which in-déede if it were done is no Excommunication at all Slanderous speeches if it bee not rather their bare surmise But perchance at the fourth or fift hand they heard of such a thing and they by and by for the good liking and opinion they haue of Bishops their chauncellers Archdeacons and Officials Charitas non est suspicax did beléeue it For the tale caried greate credit Some boy tolde them that some seruaunt tolde him that some Substitute tolde him that he had heard it tolde of some Register But who the Register Substitute Seruaunt man or boy was or is that we must go looke as the boy sayth to his dog séeke out It is proofe ynough for our Brethren that some boy tolde them that he heard say so And therefore as a matter nowe out of all doubt it must in all hast to the presse and be confirmed in print with this exclamation Insomuch that a learned preacher may be excommunicated by a foolish boy If a foolish boy had written this it had béene the more tollerable But should such Learned Preachers in the name of all the faythful Ministers Our Br. vnequall dealing in this slaunder that haue and doe seeke for the reformation of the Church of England in this their Learned Discourse of Ecclesiasticall Gouernment thus solemnly alleage such boyish slaunders or if there shoulde by corruption haue hapned any such like thing shoulde they thus heighnously burthen or chalenge the state and authority of the Bishops for such an abuse or odde escape stollen out which our Bishops doe no lesse detest than do our Brethren their-selues No likelihood in this slaunder and would punish and reform if they can name the parties and proue the offence but that I thinke before hand they can not do Nay there is
be thought of some that we should first intreate of the supreame authoritie of Christian Princes whereupon it seemeth that all the regiment of the Church dependeth Yea but you will say if it seemeth so then it commeth not of nothing There is no smoake where there is no fire We must abstaine from all appearance of euill Who saide this Forsooth brethren that did euen I and hardily returne mine owne wordes to mine owne selfe Lege Talionis For ye sée I am bolde with you brethren in so doing Well then will you say it seemeth that all the Regiment of the Churche dependeth on the supreame authoritie of the Christian Prince in Ecclesiasticall causes and this seeming commeth not on nothing No verely doth it not For to set aside your partiall suspition and goe to the matter it selfe The Christian Prince hauing supreame authoritie in Ecclesiast causes doeth no Regiment of the Churche at all though not all the Regiment of the Church depende thereon Tush this is a thing which is such a myste say you to dazell the eyes of the ignorant persons that they thinke all thinges in the Eccles. state ought to be disposed by that onely high authoritie and absolute power of the ciuill Magistrate A ha brethren I thought it would prooue somewhat It seemed as the saying is either a foxe or a fearne brake I tooke it for smoake and it was a myste So that I myst my marke And yet till it came it reeked like a smoake And a myste will not onely dazell the eyes but so darken the obiect that wee cannot discerne the trueth till the myste bée dissipated and then if we haue good eyes we shall sée all thinges as they are But what is this which is such a myste forsooth that all the regiment of the Church dependeth on the authoritie of Christian Princes This is a foule thicke stincking sclannderous darke myste indéede Whence riseth this myste Doe we raise anie such spéeches on the Prince Doth the statute yéelde anie such authoritie to the prince Doeth her Maiestie claime or take vpon her anie such authoritie I heare of none but of the common aduersaries and you nowe which arâ— our brethren that cast foorth anie such spéeches Al-be-it I ioyne not you and them in like condition For they most malitiously doe anowe and blase it you onely say it seemeth but whether to them or to the people or to your selues it seemeth that you tell vs not But it seemeth ye will exempt your selues and I am glad thereof for I would not haue it that you who are our brethren in Iesu Christe and her Maiesties truâ— meaning subiectes as we are should haue either your eyes dazeled or the verie paper whereon you write to be stayned with the supition or but with seeming to suspect such false foggie and infectiue mystes aâ— those are If ye be Iealouse of them to driue this myste away it is well done so that in this Iealousie to driue away the myste ye driue not away withall our Mistresses Supreame authoritie It is no reason her Maiestie should loose her cleare right vnder pretence that a myste dazeleth the eyes of ignorant persons But if they be ignorant then it is for that they knowe not the trueth hereof and then is the truth of the matter cleane contrarie And although the ignorant be deceaued yet they that be not ignorant hiâ— not deceaued And can not the ignoraunt bée taught the trueth by them that are not ignoraunt The ignoraunt persons were deceaued in manie moe thinges of which ignorant persons then manie nowe thankes be to God doe knowe the trueth except such as loue mystes and darkenesse more then light But let not vs suppresse the trueth for feare of what may seeme to ignorant persons For to them truthe seemes falshoode and all that we say both of vs may seeme starke lyes But it lyeth vs vppon so much the rather to tell them the truthe and then if they will be ignorant let them be ignorant still But what is the point wherein by this myste the eyes of the ignorant persons are thus dazeled That all thinges in the Ecclesiasticall state ought to be disposed by the only high authoritie absolute power of the Christian Magistrate This indéede is a daungerous errour of ignorant persons But if any be so ignorant would this error be confirmed in them if the authoritie power of the Christian Princes were first treated vpon and throughly viewed And not rather if there be any such as holde that opinion as by our brethrens spéeches it seemeth shâ—re should hâ—â—â—nie I take it were the best waye which could be taken that this myste were first cleared and the Treatie of the Christian Princes first treated vppon least eyther the Princes should take anie such onely high authoritie and absolute power vppon them or that the people should so grossely and erroniously conceaue anie such matter of theÌ„ This is my opinion in such cases And I woulde wish you brethren to take héede howe in these your discourses let them carie what name of learning soeuer ye wil sith that the people are taught no such matter sith that her Maiestie taketh no such absolute power vppon her but as becommeth a good Christian Prince that which of right pertaineth to her Maiesties royall office and most godly with all humilitie patience and â—uldenes tempereth the Iustice of the same you abuse not too much her Maiesties clemencie that deserueth no such sclaunders nor suspitions at your hâ—ndes Whâ—e put you such surmises in the peoples heads if they were ignorant to deceaue them worse For this is the way to make the people eyther become Atheistes as only and absolutely to depende on the Prince in all matters and causes Ecclesiasticall or to grudge against her Maiestie as taking on her such an onely highe authoritie and absolute power to dispose all thinges in the state Ecclesiasticall What could her open professed enemies haue sayde worse Saue that they no lesse impudently then falsely like arrant Traytors doe not shame to affirme it and should you brethren come after those shamelesse children of Beliall and say But while we speake of Ecclesiasticall gouernment it may be thought of some that we should intreate first of the Supreame authoritie of Christian Princes where-upon it seemeth that all the regiment of the Church dependeth which is such a myste to dazell the eyes of ignorant persons that they thinke all thinges in the Eccles. state ought to be disposed by the onely high authoritie and absolute power of the ciuill Magistrate What suspicious spéeches and byous glaunces vnder the name of some and of it seemeth and of they thinke are heere cast â—oorth and all this thinking and seeming to some is turned to the people and to ignorant persons they poore soules must beare the fault of all What is raysing of mystes dazeling of eyes walking in cloudes yea daâ—â—sing naked in a net and when all the worlde
looketh on to thinke no 〈◊〉 séeth vs if this be not And whie is the Soueraigne Prince called hereby no better terme then the ciuill Magistrate who before was acknowledged in more reuerent manner to be the Christian Prince and to haue also Supreame authoritie What and did you likewise meane herebie to graunt vnto Christian Princes that all the regiment of the Church dependeth on their Supreame authoritie and that all thinges in the Ecclesiasticall state ought to be disposed by that onely high authoritie and absolute power of the ciuill Magistrate What do ye hâ—â—e grant theâ— all this Or graunt them some thing or denie them all this and graâ—nt them nothing nor any regiment nor anie disposing at all Yee saye the ignorant persons thought thus and thus and would you for all that giue so much vnto Christian Princes as the Supreamâ— authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes Did not you feare also least yee should raysâ— a myste to dazell the eyes of ignorant persons And what did yoâ— meane when you gaue the direction of all Ecclesiasticall matters to your foure estates onely in the Church And among other termes herâ— speaking of the Christian Princes ye call their estate the onely highâ— authoritie and absolute power but it sufficeth vs if ye will abide by your graunt that Christian Princes haue supreame authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes as for the termes onely and absolute which are due onlie vnto Christ in talking of anie others vsurpation of them we knoâ—â— no Christian Princes that doth vsurpe them It is manifest that our most gratious Soueraigne the mirrour of all Christian Princes of this age claimeth or vsurpeth no such onely highe authoritie or absolute power whereby all thinges in the Ecclesiasticall state ought to be disposed Bestowe the vsurpation of these termes on the Pope or of some tyrant or looke your selues brethren better vnto it For you giue thrée thingâ— here to your foure Tetrarkes First direction and then of all Ecclesiâ—sticall matters and that onely to these foure in the Church And werâ— ye not afraide least the fourth terme that is to saye absolute power would followe in a myste to dazel the eyes of ignorant persons Well if after absolute Absolon follow not also it is the better But let vs now with-drawe our selues out of these mystes and comâ— to clearer coasts concerning some particuler pointes what is here grauâ—ted or denied to the Christian Princes by these our Learned discoursing brethren Others there be with more colour of reason that referre only indifferent matters to the disposition of Princes but in determining indifferent matters they shewe themselues not to be indifferent Iudges For whatsoeuer it shall please the ciuill Magistrate or themselues to call or count indifferent it must be so holden of all men without any further inquirie But of the Supreame authoritie of Christian Princes in Eccles. causes how farre it extendeth by the worde of God we shall haue better occasion to intreate hereafter when we haue described the eccl state When vnder the name and blame of ignorant persons these Learned discoursers haue answered as they thinke sufficiently that they haue not first treated on the Christian Princes estate for feare least in giuing thâ— Prince place before they had inuested in full seazure and possession these foure Tetrarks in their offices assigned alreadie vnto them the Christian Prince might be thought to haue gotten too great aduauntage as hauing his share set â—ut before theirs and therefore hee is put backe till all these foure be serued vnder pretence that if the Prince were serued first ignorant persons would thinke that al the other had their shares froÌ„ him and all depended on him and that his power might be thought absolute and that this were a myste to dazell the eies of ignorant persons which might sound to the Princes great reproch Least now the Christian Prince or any other his wel-willers should espie that this indéede were but a myste to dazell the Princes owne eyes that pretending to staye him for feare he might séeme to haue too much they might leaue him no authoritie at all in the directing and disposing those matters wherein his Supreame authoritie most of all consisteth to wit be they politike morall or Ecclesiasticall thinges in matters indifferent least they might thus séeme to spoyle the Prince of all they come nowe to answere those men that yet would leaue to the Christian Prince a Supreame authoritie in disposing of these indifferent matters Others say they there be with more colour of reason that referre only indifferent matters to the disposition of Princes Who those others are they doe not name but we may well perceaue that these our brethren discoursers fauour not greatly those mens opinion that the Christian Princes should haue anie disposing of indifferent matters Notwithstanding because they dare not in plaine wordes denie it it is worth the sight to sée howe pretyly they fetch it about in the answering to the opinion of those others And first they clawe these others how-beit with a harde curricombe that they at least haue more colour of reason yet not reason but colour of reason Which rough or gentle yéelding somewhat to them at least of a colour must serue for a reasonable colour to seeme to giue them something though saue a colour nothing both to bereaue these others of their reason the Chr. Princes of all their Supreame auth in indifferent matters And indéede as they tell their tale they driue it to as little reason as they can for in saying they referre onely indifferent matters to the disposition of Princes they plainely insinuate that these others should say that the Princes are not onely the chiefe or Supreame but also the only disposers of indifferent matters and this also our brethren affirme of indifferent matters indefinitely as though not some but all indifferent matters were in the onely disposition of Princes at their pleasure Nowe although that in some thinges which of their nature are indifferent all lawes of God and man haue had no small regarde of those that are called Principum placita drawing néere to the kinde of her Maiesties Proclamations yet what good Prince hath euer reigned were he neuer so wise euen Salomon himselfe but he had his counsell Not to giue authoritie and life to his decrées in such indifferent matterâ— which lieth I graunt onelie in the Princes disposition but to giâ—e â—â—uise and counsell vpon waightie and mature deliberation what wâ—re beâ—â— in all respectes according to the Analogie of Gods worde the groundes and rule of reason and all other thinges to be considered for the aduancâ—ment of Gods glorie the establishment of the Princes estate and the bâ—nefite of the common-weale But howsoeuer anie other Princes haue â—bused their authoritie and followed their owne disposition rather thâ—n reason in these matters or their owne reason according to Machiauelleâ— rule rather then the aduice or consents
denie the habilitie of many of our brethren to be able to interpret the scriptures in the deliuerie of the doctrine thereof to be equall either with the Bishops or with any other For it is not the accesse of the Bishops dignitie that maketh the person a better interpretor then he was before he was called to the dignitie it sufficeth if being in the dignitie he imploie himselfe in his former faithfulnesse And would God our brethren also would restraine their emulation to this comparison to be equall or better in interpreting and in the deliuerie of the scripture then the Bishops as Ierome contended with Augustine And though Augustine were a Bishop Ierome but a Prieste which Ierome confesseth and yet euer sharplie threatned the conflict with Augustine if he were prouoked thereunto Neuerthe-lesse Augustine reuerently aunswereth Quanquam c For although according to the tearmes of honour which the vse of the Church hath now obtained the office of a Bishop be greater then the office of a Priest or elder notwithstanding Augustin is in many things lesse then Ierome yea correction is not to be fled from or disdained though it come from any that is the lesser And in this behalfe of interpreting the scripture Cyprian honored Tertullian and diuerse Bishops specially Alexander Theoctistus reuerenced Origen And yet these men for all their giftes in interpreting the Scriptures and deliuery of doctrine being farre superiour to the most part of the Bishops did not therefore encroch further into any superiority or equallity of authority and dignity with the Bishops Let our brethren interprete the Scriptures and deliuer the doctrine sincerelie and therein excel the Bishops as they may easily do both by cause of the Bishops great age and great imploying in the gouernment and iurisdiction of the Church As Augustine modestly confesseth of himselfe vnto Ierome saying Nam neque in me c. For I neither see in my selfe so much knowledge of the diuine scriptures yea or that now there can be as I see there is in you And if I haue any facultie in this matter I imploy it as I may to the people of God But to apply my selfe more diligentlie to my studies then for the furniture of the thinges that the people heare I cannot by any meanes for the Ecclesiasticall businesse So that héerin the inferior as these our brethren may haue more opportunity in interpreting and deliuery of the Scripture And I warrant then the Bishops will not refuse them euer a whit for their so doing but helpe encourage and defend them Which although any Bishop fore-slowed or enuied to doe yet ought not any of our brethren hauing such equal giftes with the Bishops in the interpreting of the scriptures and deliuerye of doctrine and withal being lawfully called by the Bishops into the ministery to exauthorate and withdrawe themselues from the ministery for these controuersies of equall gouernment with the Bishops But sée how captiously our brethren deale in citing the testimony ofthe Arch. for where he saith It is not to be denied but that there is an equallity of al ministers of Gods word quoad ministeriuÌ„ touching the ministery for they haue all like power to preach the word to minister the sacraments that is to say the word preached or the sacraments ministred is as effectuall in one in respect of the ministery as it is in an other But quoad ordinem politiam towching order and gouernment there hath alwayes bene and must be degrees and superiority amongst them These words do our brethren drawe to this obiection that they are not comparable in learning to the Arch-bishops and Bishops at leaste say they let their owne opinion that in interpreting the Scriptures deliuery of doctrine we are equall with them perswade them But who seeth not that these words of the Arch-bishop do not inferre an equallity of the giftes in the ministers as hauing these giftes equally but an equalitie of their ministery in the hability to haue them and doo distinguishâ— onely betweene the power of order and of iurisdiction And therefore this is but haled to aunswere the obiection of this comparison betwéen the learning of the Arch-bishops and Bishops and the learning of our brethren in the interpreting the scriptures and deliuery of doctrine to be equall But our brethren saie Who if they could straine their consciences to subscribe to the Archbishops articles they would gladly receaue them to be the Embassadors of Iesus Christ. These words againe are somewhat intricate so that wee might misse our brethrens meaning while they neither plainly expresse who they are that would gladly receaue nor whome nor what neither yet to whome these wordes to be the Embassadors of Iesus Christ are referred whether to them selues or to the Arch-bishops and Bishops But I coniecture their meaning to be this that if these our brethren could straine their coÌ„sciences to subscribe to the Arch-bishops articles they would gladly receaue those articles that they might thereby haue liberty to preach and so to be the Embassadors of Iesus Christ. If our brethrâ—n héere meane by the Arch-bishops articles the articles where-upon it was by the Arch-bishops and bishops of both prouinces the whole Cleargie in the conuocation holden at London c. 1562. Put forth by the Queenes authority some of which articles our brethren afterwarde in this learned discourse pag. 135. do roughly challenge for diuerse grosse and palpable errors how truly or falslie and with what gâ—â—d conscience they burden them therewith I reserue to the examination of the proper place But bicause they séeme not so much to meane those articles for then they should straine their consciences apparantly to farre in calling those articles the Arch-bishops articles which were the articles not onely of Arch-bishops but also of the bishops and of the whole Cleargie and sett forth by her Maiesties authority therfore I rather take it that our brethren meane by the Arch-bishops articles The Articles where-unto all such as are admitted to preach reade cathechyse minister the sacrameÌ„ts or execute anie other Eccl. function do agree and consent testifie the same by the subscription of their hands viz. 1. That her Maiestie vnder God hath and ought to haue the soueraigntie and rule ouer all manner of persons within her realmes dominions and countries of what state either Ecclesiasticall or temporall soeuer they be and that none other forraine power prelate state or potentate hath or ought to hâ—ue any iurisdiction power superiority preeminence or authority Ecclesiasticall or spirituall within her Maiesties said realmes dominions or countries 2. That the booke of common prayer and of ordering Bish. Priests Deacons contayneth in it nothing contrary to the word of God that the same may lawfully be vsed And that I my self who do subscribe wil vse the forme of the said booke prescribed in publike prayer and administration of the Sacraments and none other 3.
warrant or licence thereto I doe not knowe to intermeddlâ— in matters of state and Gouernement Whether there were anyâ— thought the contrarie as I hope there are not many amongst vs Protestants come you in saying It maye bee thought of some as though you misliked that anie shoulde so thinke or thought not your seluâ—â— that manye amongest vs thought not so But go to some were perhaps of such a straunge opinion and what I praye you is the oâ—â—nion That we should first intreate of the supreame authoritye of Christiaâ— Princes Héere againe I craue yet another interruption for my learniâ—â— of so Learned discoursers Doe yee héere afforde Christian Princes thâ—â— title of Supreame authority by way of supposition As whether they haue anie Supreame authority in Ecclesiastical matters or no let thâ—â— fall out in the Treatie as it shall or by way of assertion acknowleâ—ging a Supreame authoritye in them For your woordes séeme rathâ—â— to carrie that they haue a Supreame authoritie Howbeit not to be first treated vpon and so likewise do your wordes in the next page saying But of the Supreame authority of Christian Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes how farre it extendeth by the worde of God we shall haue better occasion to intreate heereafter when we shall haue described the Ecclesiasticall state So then Christian Princes haue supreame authority in Ecclesiasticall causes by your own assertion But how now doth this agrée with your former conclusion There remaineth therefore of these before rehearsed onlie in the Church these Ecclesiasticall offices instituted of GOD namely Pastors Doctors Gouernours and Deacons By which the Church of God may according to his worde bee directed in all matters which are commonly called Ecclesiasticall If Christian Princes haue supreame gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes howe are all Ecclesiasticall matters or causes directed onelye by these Tetrarcks Shall the Prince be one of these fowre and bee included in the compaâ—â—â— of the Gouernours No these gouernours are such Elders as are chosen out of the people How shall we reconcile these sayings then well inough say they For these 4. are the onely Ecclesiasticall officers now we name not the Christian Prince an Ecclesiasticall officer but the supreame gouernour This is very well reconciled indéede for that point saue that it falleth out hardlie in an other that still the Lay people are made persons Ecclesiasticall But what aunswereth this the pointe in hande For if the Christian Princes haue the supreame gouernment in Ecclesiasticall matters or causes then none of all these fowre officers or offices call them Ecclesiasticall or what yee will neither diuisim nor coniunctim haue the onelie direction of all Ecclesiasticall matters or causes For the Christian Princes haue héere some direction Nay the chiefe and supreame direction in them Except yee finde out yet some other quirke betwéene matters and causes or betweene directing and gouerning But as heere Ecclesiasticall matters and Ecclesiasticall causes are taken indifferentlie so for directing and gouerning I goe plainelye and simply to worke He that dirâ—cteth he gouerneth and he that gouerneth he directeth The Christian Prince therefore beeing as our brethren graunt the supreame gouernour in Ecclesiasticall causes is also the supreame director in Ecclesiasticall matters But if now they stoppe on this point and will distinguish between direction and gouernment and they that is to saie these 4. officers will direct all the matters and the Prince must gouerne them according onlie to their direction who aâ—e indéed the Gouernours then The Prince or they when he must gouerne nay say rather when hee muste obey according to their direction For they vnderstande by directing not their counseling or shewing their iudgemente and aduise and such direction we freelie graunt belongeth vnto them But by directing they meane setting downe order prescribing commaunding decréeing and determinining and what is this else but gouerning Who hath now the more supreme gouernment in Ecclesiasticall matters the Prince or these fowre estates But the Prince by their owne confessions is the supreame gouernour in Ecclesiastical matters and not they except our brethren giue the prince this title onelye for a shew and kéepe the matters to them-selues For so the Pope calleth the Emperour Emperour of Roome and yet yet can hee haue no more roome in Rome then it pleaseth the Pope to permit vnto him who indeede hath all the Empire and gouernment of Rome Now if these our learned discoursing brethren graunt christian princes this title to be the supreame gouernour in Ecclesi matters in such a fashion that is a planie mockerie before God and man Nâ—n est bonum ludere câ—â— sanctis But if they trulie acknowledge the Christian Prince to beare the chiâ—â—â— stroake among them in directing prescribing decréeing confirming forbidding and commaunding· Ecclesiasticall matters then is the Prince indéede the supreame gouernour in them and not they But then stoope gallant All these iiij estates which as they said before muste beare such sway that all Ecclesiasticall matters maie be directed by them and by them onlie are topsie turnie ouertourned Wet may the Christian Prince by them though not by them onely bee directed by waye of counsell and information but when all is done hee is still the Supreame Gouernour and all they muste bee chiefly directed and gouerned by the Christian Prince in all such Ecclesiasticall matters and causes as are amongst them to be established Sith therefore our Learned discoursers haue graunted this wâ—â—â— yeelde they not without further discoursing on the matter to hâ—â— Maiesties supreame gouernement that hath confirmed by her Supreame authoritye the decision of these Ecclesiasticall causes and controuersies long agoe and maintayneth the Ecclesiasticall gouernement now established And if now Christian Princes haue supreame authority in Ecclesiasticall causes while these our Learned brethren discoursers take on them not to speake onelie but to set downe directions of Ecclesiastical gouernement maye not some thinke nay maye not moste men thinke that they shoulde treate firste of thâ— Supreame authoritye of Christian Princes If they haue the firste degree in dignity whye may they not haue the firste place in this Treatise Howbeit because this woorâ—â— Supreame may bee taken as-well for the last in order though the first in dignitie as the Princes giue their voyces and Royall assent last of allâ— and when euery bodie hath saide their voice strykes deade or quickens 〈◊〉 the matter If our brethren héere meane to reserue the Treatie of the Christian Princes Supreame authority to the purpose so to acknowledâ—â— them to bee the supreame gouernours then a Gods name procéede on Let them say as doe the Gentlemen-vshers before Princes On aforâ— my Lordes Let all these fowre estates take their places before because that these our Learned discoursers so assigne them We will not greatly stryue with them about the roome where they please to place Christâ—an Princes firste or laste or middlemoste if Christian Princes maâ—
entirely retaine their supreame authority in Ecclesiasticall causes Neuerthelesse there is no reason to the contrary but it may be thought of some or of moste if not of these Learned discoursers that they shoulâ— haue treated first on the Supreame authoritie of Christian Princes that the reader might first haue knowen what Gouernement perteyneth to them and howe farre it extendeth by the worde of God that haue the Supreame authoritie of Eccl. causes and then to haue treated on those in their orders dignities and places that are vnder them and séene likewise the differences of their inferiour Gouernements And so should the reader of these controuersies haue eastly plainely perceaued whether any of their inferior Gouernments authorities had incroached on the Christian Princes Supreame gouernment authoritie yea or no. This mee thinketh had béene the better the simpler and more direct Methode then first to bring in all the other inferiour persons and to assigne this and that Gouernement vnto euerie of them and when all haue had their places offices and gouernementes assigned to them then to come to the Christian Princes and tell them this is the place and office of Supreame Gouernement left for you Your Maiesties come late these 4. are your Seniours ye are but their punies and therefore be content there is no remedie you must take that which by them is not forestalled howe farre your Supreame authoritie extendeth we shall haue better occasion to entreate hereafter when we haue described the Eccl. state Me thinketh that Christian Princes may take griefe hereat yea euerie indifferent Reader may suspect that Christian Princes might haue great wrong offered them by this dealing But whether our brethren Discoursers meane thus or no by bringing in first all the inferiour persons and taking vp before hande ere the Princes be so much as mentioned the direction of all Eccles. matters to bee directed onely by them and bid the Princes be content they shall haue the Supreame place of authoritie that is the last place as they perhaps meane it and the Princes vnderstande it for the chiefest place let them now go on and tell their owne tale and shewe their reasons for thus placing of the Christian Princes Where-uppon it seemeth that all the regiment of the Churche dependeth Where-upon And where-upon I pray you brethren speake you this eyther vpon the giuing to Christian Princes the first treatise or vpon the Supreame authoritie of Christian Princes The supreame authoritie you haue graunted But the first place of the treatie yee will not graunt Where-upon it may be taken that this your where-upon seemeth as if ye sayde If we should first intreate of the Supreame authoritie of Christian Princes then it might seeme that all the regiment of the Church dependeth on them But construe your owne words wherevpon ye please eyther vpon the one sense or the other Here is nothing yet alleaged but that onely it seemeth that all the regiment of the Church dependeth on it But if it be vnderstoode for the onely first place of the treatie it can not so much as seeme to depende all vppon the first treating of the same If it be vnderstoode of the Christian Princes supreame gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes which you haue graunted and we take holde thereon and that some what yet in time least all be cleane giuen from them if all be not giuen away alreadie but yet will wee take as good holdfast as we can for the Princes right that Christian Princes haue supreame authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes which once beeing graunted then whether yee treate there-upon first or last whatsoeuer would seeme to fall out will seeme so still But what is this that would seeme to fall out hereupon That all the regiment of the Church dependeth on the Christian Princes supreame authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes Would this seeme if the Prince had the first place Doeth it seeme that all the regiment of the Church dependeth on the Pastor And yet here you assigne the Pastour the first place Though afterwarde vppon further aduisement you put him backe and make him come downe with shame and take the lower roome giuing the first place to the Doctor notwithstanding your selues doe thus heere for a while exalt the Pastour But it seemeth ye haue a greater Iealousie of the Christian Prince then of anie of all these foure Tetrarkes For howsoeuer yâ—â— set them one before or after another the Christian Prince must come behind them all for feare it might seeme that the regiment of the Church dependeth thereon But shall the Christian Princes be debarred of the right of their place in the treatie of their authoritie because it seemeth that there-upon the Regiment of the Church dependeth It seemeth that these wordes are suspitiouslie cast foorth as though her Maiestie would haue all the Ecclesiasticall functions and all their ministerie of the worde and sacraments and all the mysticall state of Christes militant Church in her Maiesties Dominions to depende on her Maiesties supreame authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters It seemetht his is not verie good dealing to burthen her Maiestie with suspition of such thinges But we will suspende our iudgâ—ment for all this that seemeth to depende for if wee shoulde not but streight condemne a thing because it seemeth this or that what if this dealing of our brethren seemed harde to the Christian Prince What if it seemed to her Maiestie that the bringing in of all these foure Estates before her Maiestie and the giuing vnto them onely the direction of all Ecclesiasticall matters might be greatly preiudiciall to the state of gouernement established to make a mutenie in the common-weale to sâ—â— vs all together by the eares to make an infinite number of factions and alterations yea to take from her Maiestie the best part of her supreame authoritie and to bréed many mo mischiefes and inconueniences then she or you or we or any yet sawe If I say it should seeme so vnto her Maiestie and to a great number besides which thinke themselues as sounde Protestantes and as good subiects as you either would seeme to be or are would ye not straight wayes aunswere What though it seemeth so yet it is not so it is but onely your surmise and though it seemeth so to you yet it seemeth not so to vs ye will say nor to many other But sure it is not so whatsoeuer it seemeth vnto anie If nowe we replie well yet it seemeth not so of nothing There can be no smoake where there is no fire and if it be not smoake indéede yet since it seemeth to be smoak it is not amisse to feare fire We must abstaine from all appearaunce of evill 1. Thes. 5. Would ye be content to haue the matter ouerruled thus against your Learned discourse for this Tetrarchie because these daungers might so seeme to insue yea to depende there-upon And I pray you brethren what stronger reason call ye this It may
of their wise and goodly Counselâ—â— shall we so déeme rashly and beyonde our dutie of her Ma. our most gratious Soueraigne or of any other godly Christian Princes Well then what say our brethren these Learned discoursers here-unto hauing moued this case For it is at this day a great question toucheth the matter to the quicke what the Christian Princes authoritie is in the dispositioÌ„ of indifferent matters Let vs now listen to their answer determination in this point Wherby we shall sée what they leaue to the Christian Prince all or somewhat ought or nought in the disposing of these things Their motion is this Others there be with more coulour of reason that referre only indifferent matters to the disposition of Princes Their answer is this But in determining indifferent matters they shewe themselues not to be indifferent Iudges This answere they confirme with this reason For whatsoeuer it shall please the ciuill Magistrate or themselues to call or count indifferent it must be so holden of all men whithout any further inquirie And with this answere they breake off the matter saying But of the supreame authoritie of Christian Princes in Eccles. causes howe farre it extendeth by the word of God we shal haue better occasion to intreate here-after when we haue described the Eccl. state And is this al then that we shal looke for here concerning this so greâ—â— and important matter Who mooued here this point now Indéede it wâ—â— looked for before But why at the length was it nowe mooued and shall not nowe be throughlie answered but thus be posted off till better occasion here-after Heere was a verie good occasion and mooued by your selues and the matter waightie and necessarie and who would not nowe euen haue saide to him selfe although some great busines or frienâ—â— had called him away Nay soft I will stay a while and here these oâ—â— brethrens Learned discourse and answere in prouing and determining of this great point then be gone But we may now be gone when we liâ—t we haue our answer héere alreâ—die such an one as it is and till better occasion heereafter we must be content with this Well and there be no remedie then content we will liue in hope But then Brethren forget not the matter quite and â—leane when that better occasion hereafter commeth But it is an old saying Omne promissum est aut debitum aut dubium I doubt wâ— must take this answer for all in this Learned Discourse For heereafter when our brethren at the end of all this their Learned Discourse take their better occasion as they thinke to treate more largelée of the supreame authoritie of Christian Princes in ecclesiasticall causes how farre it exâ—endeth by the worde of God there is faire and well better and worse more and lesse ne gry quidem not so much as one word mentioned of indifferent matters And is this indifferent dealing in such a matter But since it is so least we should go emptie awaye we muste take this or none for an answer The obiection propounded by themselues was this Others there be with more coulour of reason that referre onelie indifferent matters to the disposition of Princes To this they answer But in determining indifferent matters they shew them-selues not to be indifferent iudges This answere beginning with a But is giuen rhetoricallie Ex abrupto Vttering as it were for quicker â—â—spatch in a Learned Discourse the one halfe or parte of the answere by which they would haue vs to gather their whole minde as who should saye it is tâ—ue which these others affirme that referre onlie indifferent matters to the disposition of Princes all this we gladlie graunt and yéeld vnto But in determining indifferent matters they shewe themselues noâ— to be indifferent iudges Is not this brethren the meaning of your answere For I would be loath wittinglie to misconster you Howbeit to all that shall be indifferent iudges of vs bothe I hope they will say I haue more then coulour of reason thus to conster your wordâ— You haue mooued héere a waightie obiection Your full plaine and resolute answere is expected If ye saye nothing at all vnto it either it might be thought that ye reiected it as a matter not worthie to be answered and whye then did ye mooue it Or â—lse saying nothing therevnto the old rule may hap to fasten on you Qui tacet videtur consâ—ntire He that holdeth his peace dooth seeme to consent Notwithstanding that is but seeming which though it inforce not yet still it carieth more then coulour of Reason that by all probabilitie the partie yéeldeth And it is commonlie and in some cases necessarilie taken pro confessâ— as a cléere graunt But if a man of purpose will take vpon him to â—nswere to that which is obiected either by others or by himselfe and answere onelie by waye of exception as you héere expresselie beginne with this exception But what can that intend but that ye fréelie graunt to all the obiection so farre foorth as is not expreâ—â—ed nor contâ—ined wiâ—â—in the compasse of your exception And this goeth beyond your mist of videtur it seemeth and I plainelie take it for a plaine graunt Now if ye graunte to the opinion of these whom ye call others that referre onelie indifferent matters to the disposition of Princes why do ye so minceinglie or rather odiouslie saye of them they doo it with more coulour of reason as though they had no reason but a coulour of reason for it And what reason or coulour of reason haue you to propose iâ— and graunt it and yet to finde fault with them that doo auouche it If yâ— say ye finde faulte with the abuse of it that is nothing to the obiection which was whether onelie indifferent matters were to be referred to the Princes disposition But say you in determining indifferent matterâ— they shew themselues not to be indifferent iudges So that if they shewed themselues to be indifferent iudges in determining indifferent matters then they did well and ye will allow Christian Pâ—inces to haue authoritie in the disposition of indifferent matters Who are these now that in determining indifferent matters shew themselues not be indifferent iudges If yée meane those others with their coulour of reason with what coulour of reason referre ye this to them who as ye saye referre onelie indifferent matters to the disposition of Princes And how then are they become such determiners and iudges of indifferent matters referring them onelie to the Princes disposition What iudgement or determination is that in these others that hath no disposition of the matters whereon they should iudge and determine but referreth the disposition to the Prince And what disposition is that of the Prince if these others and not the prince be the iudges and determiners of it If ye say these others finde out onelie what be indifferent matters and the Prince onelie dooth
disposed Or were by the most and best part of the assemblie so evicted that the matter hath béene sufficientlie inquired of examined Iudged determined and resolued alreadie and therevpon by the Prince also disposed Will not all this yet content you No no we will then say and still crye out that In determining indifferent matters they shew themselues not to be indifferent Iudges And whye will ye thus complaine on them For whatsoeuer it shall please the ciuill Magistrate or themselues to call or count indifferent it must be so holden of all men without any further inquirie This then I perceaue must be the fa-burden of all this song The Prince shall haue a title of supreme authoritie to dispose indifferent matters and others shall inquire iudge and determine which be and which be not indifferent matters But if the Prince or these others whosoeuer they be either inquire of or Iudge or determine or dispose otherwise of them then shall please such as these our brethren the Learned Discoursers not onelie they may course them for it and discourse these matters againe more learnedlie but it must be still free for all men when and as often and how they please to inquire further on all that is doone and reuoke all their former inquiries iudgements determinations and dispositions or else they shall haue this peale roong them In determining indifferent matters they shewe themselues not to be indifferent Iudges For whatsoeuer it shall please the Ciuill Magistrate or themselues to call or count indifferent it must be so holden of all men without anie further inquirie And now if there be any indifferent Iudge let him Iudge I beséech him indifferentlie If they deale thus with indifferent matters wherein the Princes supremacie hath the greatest force what is left to the Prince or to any of these others to enquire iudge determine or to dispose vpon And how now may not this also reach by as much not coulour of reason but substance of reason to all politike matters in the common-weale as well as to these Ecclesiasticall so farre foorth as both of them be indifferent Whereby they may as well when the Prince and all the states of the realme haue determined iudged and disposed of any such indifferent matter crie out on the Prince and all others in the Parlement and repeate this sclander in their former leoden that in determining indifferent matters they shew themselues not to be indifferent iudges For whatsoeuer it shall please the Ciuill Magistrate and themselues to call and count indifferent it must be so holden of all men without any further inquirie And thus may all the supreme authoritie of the Christian Prince both in politike and ecclesiasticall matters be cleane ouerthrowne and euerie man set at libertie to exclaime with open mouthe on their soueraigne and of all others in authoritie and vnder pretence of further inquirie God knowes how farre they will runne We sée a turbulent Comicall beginning but we sée not the lamentable Tragicall ending of these things Principiss obsta serò medicina paratur But of the Princes authoritie in these matters thus roughlie hewed at the entrie they will héere for this time make a pawse and promise for a while to go no further hauing indéed at this verie first steppe gone ouer the shooes alreadie more then a little to farre and yet would God they could héere haue made a cleanlie stoppe and not made the matter a great deale worse but haue rested at these words saying But of the supreme authoritie of Christian Princes in Ecclesiasticall causes how faâ—â—e it extendeth by the word of God we shall haue better occasion to intreate hereafter when we haue described the ecclesi state And I pray God better intreating and treating to for this was but a harde intreating of Christian Princes and a sorie treatie of their supreame authoritie But belike the moouing héere of these matters for the Prince though indéed mooued by themselues in the course of their Learned Discourse of ecclesiasticall gouernement by their foure estates to be thus but a little interrupted by touching onelie rather then by treating of the christian Princes supreame authoritie did some what perhaps disturbe and mooue their patience And therefore as they héere till heereafter take their leaue so in this perturbation at the parting declaring the cause of their departure now from them and whye they néed not and will not talke further with them at this time in stéed of shaking or rather wringing handes they giue them such a parting blow for a farewell such a volie for a vale that it were inough vnlesse they handle them gentlier heereafter at their better occasion to dashe all Christian Princes for all their magnanimitie out of countenance yea to thrust them cleane out of Christendome except they will holde themselues contented with such places and authoritie as they after they haue at large described the ecclesiast state and fullie serued all their foure Tetrarks shall please to assigne vnto them And now declaring their reasons héereof to euerie man thinking belike that euerie man hath an interest in the further inquirie of these matters they saye as followeth And that it is neither needfull nor agreeable to good order of teaching to begin first therewith it may be plaine to euerie man by this reason The church of God was perfect in all hir regiment before there was any Christian Prince yea the churche of God may stand dooth stand at this daie in most blessed estate where the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers By which it is manifest that the regiment and gouernement thereof dependeth not vpon the authoritie of Princes but vpon the ordinance of God who hath most mercifullie and wiselie so established the same that as with the comfortable aide of Christian Magistrates it may singulerlie flourish and prosper so without it it may continue and against the aduersaries thereof preuaile For the church craueth helpe and defence of Christian Princes to continue and go forward more peaceablie and profitablie to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe but all her authoritie she receaueth immediatlie of God In these words our bretheren the Learned Discoursers to breake off this matter hauing alledged one of their reasons as we haue heard why they will not make their first treatie on the supreame authoritie of Christian Princes which reason was this that they would not seeme to confirme the opinion of those to whom it seemeth that all the regiment of the Church dependeth on the Christian Princes supreme authoritie and by the way answered as we haue likewise heard the opinion of others that referre indifferent matters to the Princes disposition They now conclude this point with another answere saying It is neither needefull nor agreeable to good order of teaching to beginne first therewith This scruple I perceaue sticketh yet in their stomakes peraduenture suspecting that they had hetherto sayd nothing oughtes-worth
vnto the purpose whie the Prince in this their Learned discourse should not haue the principall place that they might therefore procéede more frankely this offence beeing taken away for the Princes supreame authoritie is no small moate in their eyes they will yet ere they part confirme it further with a fewe moe reasons and so leaue it as they promised till hereafter And first they say it is not needefull to beginne first therewith If by needefull they meane necessarie they might seeme to say somewhat to the purpose For so it was not needefull for them at all to haue entred into this Learned discourse nor to haue delt on this wise nor to haue procéeded so far therein Neither yet needful as behouefull for them or to all the parties to whom they haue communicated the same but méere needlesse and better if they had dealt lesse yea much better if not at all but had béene déedelesse to therein But hauing vnnecessarily intruded themselues into this discourse I thinke it had béene verie needefull though not in necessitie yet of conueniencie and of duetie to haue giuen the Prince being the principall partie the principall place Yea had it béene but for verie reuerence and and comelinesse or to auoyde offence and suspition both of the Prince and of manye others especially in this last age of the worlde whereof S. Paule prophecied 2. Tim. 3. saying This knowe also that in the last dayes shall come perilous times for men shal be louers of their owne selues couetous boasters proude cursed speakers disobedient to parents vnthankfull vnholy without naturall affection truce-breakers false accusers intemperate fierce dispisers of them that are good traytors headdie highe minded louers of pleasures more than louers of God hauing a shadowe of godlinesse but hauing denied the power thereof Turne therefore away from such c. Sith nowe of such as all these are we sée the manifest experience both in the Papistes and in the Anabaptistes in these last dayes howe much needefull therefore might it well be thought for vs in anie treatie of gouernement in Gods Church next after Iesus Christe himselfe to haue preferred none in place till we had seene howe farre the Princes right had stretched And to haue followed S. Peters order who after hee had generally handled the spirituall state of our Christianity entring into the treatise of conuersation and gouernement of the Church first requireth submission to Princes as to the chiefe and then procéedeth to the dutie of husbandes and wiues of neighbours one to another and so commeth to the Pastors and the people Not that this order is so needefull neither that it should prescribe and yet if the Apostles at any time giue the chiefest place to Princes which at that time as our brethren héere saye were not yet become Christian Princes what woulde they haue doone had they béene Christians And howe much more should we they nowe being Christians when as wee treate of the externall Regiment of the Church next and immediately after Christe giue the first treatise to Christian Princes as to the Supreame Gouernours of the same Especially the Princes being in lawefull possession of the Supreame Gouernment and the same possession established vnto them how needefull were it if not necessarie first to consider the title of them that pleade in possession established or euer any other Gouernours be brought in But needing not stande so muche on neede All thinges sayeth Saint Paule are lawefull vnto me but all thinges are not expedient 1. Corinth 10. You needed not brethren to haue kept this order of your treatise but you should haue béene more heedefull to that that is expedient than to that that is needefull So that the Princes supreame authoritie be reserued intyer for that is needefull vse your libertie in the order of your treating thereon a Gods name But ye adde that it is neither needefull nor agreeable to good order of teaching to beginne first therewith It will perhaps set your teachers and Seniors out of the order that ye haue placed them in if it cleane remooue not some of them And so I graunt it is not agreeable to your order of teachinge in this Learned discourse But otherwise it is agreeable to all good order of teaching well ynough And I take it to be as good an order of teaching as anie other Namely treating of the order of Gouernement first to set downe the best and chiefest Governour Your selues do teache this Order in your Tetrarchie first Teachers then Pastours thirdly Gouernours and lastly Deacons Wherefore I pray you doe ye marshall them thus and treate on them afterwarde at large in this order For I can shew you an other order in Gods word but that you thinke this to be a good order of teaching to place them according to their dignities And so you say page 15. the office of teaching is the first and principall office that is in the Church If you nowe â—stéeme their dignities thus and according thereunto giue them their former or later places since that by your owne confession alreadie past the Christian Princes haue Supreame authoritie in Eccl. causes which nonâ— of these 4. Tetrarkes nor all of them haue and so are higher in dignitie then they all how is not then the office of the Christian Princes the first and principal office in the Church which you attribute to the teachers And why may not by this your owne reason the Princes interest office be treated vpon before any of all these Tetrarkes No no to beginne first with the Supreame authoritie of Christian Princes in Eccles. causes is neither needefull nor agreeable to good order of teaching But to beginne with all these 4. Tetrarks first Teachers then Pastors then Gouernors then Deacons and then to sée what remaineth for the Christian Princes yea yea that that is needfull and is very agreeable to good order of teaching O this is a proper needefull agreeable good and orderly kind of teaching is it not But I pray you my Masters in this your Learned discourse teach me one thing here for my learning Wherefore make ye all this a-doe to haue the Prince come after al these 4. Estates Doe ye striue so earnestly as did yea more theÌ„ did the Pharisees for the highest roomes that Princes and all must giue roome to these your newe Tetrarkes and that so soone as euer their heades péepe out of the shell Our Chronicles tell vs of the old striuing for places nowe and then among the Popishe Archbishops and do you so reprehend all Archbishops that not only they must be cleane put downe but Princes and all put backe till euery one of these newe Tetrarkes come foorth and haue taken their places Whiâ— brethren you of all men shoulde not thus doe who pretende equalitie What is it to be equall to Princes or to haue equalitie in the ministerie You can-not abide these names of Grace of Honour of
Lordes Doe ye shunne the names and shooue at the matter And so farre that Emperours Kings Queenes and all Christian Princes for all their supremacie must backarie and come after you or else it is not agreeable to good order of teaching If yée teache in this order it is such a lesson that I am a-fraide some can not easelie learne it But for my parte I hope it is not of anie pride in you Neuerthelesse I tell you playnelie as my friendes and bretheren leaue it for manie mislike it and suspecte it shrewdely if it be not of pride yet to be no orderlie kinde of Teaching nor good and plaine dealing with Christian Princes But you say it may be plaine to euery man by this reason The Church of God was perfecte in all her Regiment before there was any Christian Prince Yea the Church of God may stand and doth stande at this day in most bessed estate where the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers By which it is manifest that the Regiment and Gouernment therof dependeth not vpon the authoritie of Princes but vpon the ordinance of God May it be plaine to euerie man by this reason Euerie reason or argument as it should be good and true both for forme matter so it ought to be directed to the purpose and to conclude the point that is to be proued And then to euerie man it is a plaine reason What nowe is the point here to be prooued It is not needefull nor agreeable to good order of teaching to begin first with intreating of the Supreame authoritie of Christian Princes in Eccles. causes This then beeing the point to be prooued must by necessarie consequence of the premisses be plainely argued and set downe in the conclusion or else euerie man may plainely see it is no plaine reason nor needfull to be yéelded vnto nor agreeable to good order of teaching but either some intricate Sophistication or some vnnecessarie conclusion litle or nothing pertayning to the purpose Plaine dealing sayeth the Prouerbe is a Iewell Let vs therefore sée this plaine reason and the parts thereof whether it conclude this point or no. The Church of God was perfect in all her regiment before there was anie Christian Prince Yea The Church of God may stande and doeth stande at this day in most blessed state where the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers What is the conclusion By which it is manifest that the Regiment and Gouernment thereof dependeth not vppon the authoritie of Princes but vpon the ordinance of God c. Loe howe plaine to euerie man and howe agreeable to good order of teaching in any figure and moode of Syllogisme this reason is framed and how patte the conclusion of this reason hittes the point to be prooued which they haue here so lustily auouched may be plaine to euerie man by this reason What will our Learned brethren here say Tush we meane not in saying it may be plaine to euerie man by this reason to reason so strictly according to the order of teaching in Logike but we reason at large Rhethorically This is ye wotte a Learned discourse and therefore we are not bounde to make short conclusions but according to our title to shewe our Learning in discoursing on it Call ye this discoursing It is a Discourse indéede but of the coursest fashion that euer I saw I know these Discoursers haue learning ynough though they spare it here yet if they should vtter it I would bee loath for my part to contende with them But sée howe affection in discoursing may carrie Learning and all quite away so farre from reason that here neither in matter truthe onlie which is principall is remembred nor in forme and manner anie good order of teaching is obserued nor yet in the conclusion the principall point is marked but gone cleane from whereunto all the reason should be leaueled Well yet since this is the best reason and all that here or hereafter they haue to make this matter plaine to euerie man least perhaps in the partes or in the conclusion there might lie hidden some further matter or reason then they would open plaine to euerie man let vs weighe the partes and conclusion better and lay them more open that euery man may perceaue plainely the plaine truthe and full validitie of this reason For this seemeth to be a great reason and to haue many small reasons in it First on this first and maior proposition of the same the Church of God was perfect in all her regiment before there was anye Christian Prince although they make no direct conclusion thereon yet they séeme to drawe an argument à priore from the former as pleading from the elder hande by senioritie and on that also procéede to the greater perfection and thereupon reason as it were in this manner That which in the regiment thereof was perfect before the other that is to be treated vpon before the other But the Church of God was perfect in all her regiment before there was anie Christian Prince What followeth hereupon but this Therefore the Church of God is to be treated vppon before Christian Princes But the question is not here betwixt the Church of God and Christian Princes whether of them shall first be treated vpon For whereas the name of the Church is an integrall worde and conteyneth the whole and the Christian Princes are though principall partes yet but particuler partes thereof included in the whole and so the question were as if one should aske whether is the man before the head or the head before the man they offer therefore herein an iniurie to Christian Princes as séeming to contende with the whole and so striued against themselues being partes of the whole And yet if a man would make an Anatomie of the whole body and beginne with the treatise of the head as the principall part though the head was not the first part that was formed but the heart or some other and afterwarde the heade yet beginning with the head and to treate first of the office and powers thereof hee should not doe a thing disagreeable to good order of teaching Or in the description of a house though the house was not perfect till all the partes were made if hee treated first of the court or of the hall or of the roofe which perhappes were builded last yet might hee in processe orderly describe the whole house For our question is not heere of anie part compared with the whole but in the whole of anie parte compared to another For as the Christian Princes are but partes of the Church of God so these foure estates that claime the direction of all Eccl matters in the Church are but partes of the Church also So that this first and Maior proposition might haue béene lesse captious as will appeare after in the viewe of the conclusion and a great deale plainer not to say
This rule therefore that because it is first in time before another it is in order to bee first treated vpon before an other or because other as yet were not therefore that which was before made a perfect regiment is no perfect nor good argument Which argument being grounded on so vncertaine and weakâ— foundation all that is built thereon is easily shattered The Papistes for the traditions of the Church which they call the vnwritten worde or veritie vnwritten vse the like argument against the authoritie of Gods written word and veritie of the Scripture The word was deliuered by tradition of preaching before it was deliuered by writing therefore traditions are of no lesse authoritie nor lesse to be beleeued then the written worde and holie scripture yea the Churches authoritie is aboue the scriptures and is the iudge thereof Thus doe the Papistes encroche from the time to the authoritie as our brethren heere doe Nowe as this reason faileth both for the Senioritie of time and forestalling the order of place and much more for claiming any prioritie in dignitie and most of all for inferring any such honour as perfection of regiment so for the truthe of this proposition that The Church of God was perfect in all her regiment before there was any Christian Prince I can not yet sée howe directly it can be iustified For if this were true then there neede no regiment of Christian Princes at all And howe then haue the Christian Princes anie authoritie at all in Eccl. causes Or â—f they haue anie howe came they by it if the Churches regiment were perfect or the Church perfect in all her regiment before there were anie Christian Prince Or whereto serueth the Christian Princes supream authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes if not to make the regiment of the Church in better estate For otherwise the Church were as good without it if she be no better in her Regiment by it then she was before shée had it But it is not so both the church and her regiment is bettered by it Which your selues are faine in part to confesse euen heere in the conclussion of your argument saying of God who hath most mercifully and wisely so established the same to wit the churches regiment that as with the comfortable aide of christian Magistrates it may singulerlie prosper and flourish c. And againe for the church craueth helpe defence of christian Princes to continue and go fore-ward more peaceablye and profiâ—ablye to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christ. Although héere ye will affoorde no more but this yet if there were no more this is inough to ouerthrow your saying that the church of God was perfect in all her Regiment before there was any christian prince For if this comfortable aide helpe and defence to continue and goe forewarde in so great matters as more peaceably and profitably to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe were taken awaie then the church of God though I graunt it may continue and against the aduersaries thereof preuaile Yet should she not be perfect in al her Regiment needing this comfortable ayde help and defence of christian Princes And the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe shoulde with more trouble and lesse profit go fore-warde yea rather it should go back-warde and he hindered though it continue and not so singulerly flourish and prosper but decay And is this so smal a matter in your eyes brethren as that it nothing appertained to the Regiment of the church but that crauing all this of christian princes and so without them wanting the same ye dare so boldly auouch that she is perfect in all her Regiment without it Doth she craue that she wanteth not Then is she a wanton Doeth she want it then is she not perfect in all her Regiment Or doeth it not greatly pertaine vnto her Regiment Or doe yee thinke that this shall salue the matter because the churche may continue and againste the aduersaries thereof preuaile without it Our question nowe is not of the substance and beeing of the church but of the Regiment of it Neither yet simply of the Regiment but whether she were perfect in all her Regiment before any christian princes were or no The church I graunt was then and shall continue euer and she had euen then a Regiment also Yea and that Regiment in soone respectes might be called perfecte for that time while there were not such open professed christian princes to be foster fathers and noursing moothers of the church as God bee praysed now there are For concerning the Rectors of the church then as they were then more perfect and singuler persons so had they more perfect and singuler extra-ordinary offices and withall more excellent giftes to be able to gouerne it the better But this argueth so little the churches perfection then in al her Regiment vnderstanding the same of all her ordinary externall Regiment whereupon our question is which Regiment shee was not then so perfectly come vnto that rather their extra-ordinary gifts and offices of Apostles Euangelistes Prophetes c. were added for that time to supplye furnish that part of the Regiment thereof that was afterward to be made more perfect concerning the ordinary state by the accesse of the Christian Princes following Except therefore our Brethren intende vtterlie to shake off all Christian Princes and account their supreame authority in Church causes if not now to be nought yet to be nought worth and altogether vnnecessary to the perfection of the Churches Regiment how can this be any good argument to infirme it now because admitting this also were true there were no ChristiaÌ„ Princes theÌ„ what do they inferre here-upoÌ„ that there is no more néede héerein of Christian Princes now then there was then presupposing that then héerein there was no néede at all of them that were a very suspitious and perrilous conclusion For although theÌ„ there were the lesse néede of them because that néede was then other-wise supplied yet those supplies not continuing and malice increasing both of aduersaries without and of Hipocrites within and the giftes also that remaine decreasing there is now farre more neede of the Christian Princes supreame gouernment to the perfecting of the Churches Regiment And so the state of the time for the regiment of the church differing the argument of the Regiment from the time then to the time now is defectiue But if they néeded then héerein the helpe of christian Princes as they do nowe then was not the church perfect in all her Regiment otherwise than as it was extraordinarylie supplied before the christian Princes helpe and comfortable aide was added Before which time those temporary supplies comming to the church as the Manna and other extraordinary helpes made the Iewes estate to flourish prosper and goe fore-ward in the Desertes though they ceased when they came to the land of promise So the church might bee
Iudges at home in our seuerall Congregations bicause S. Paule prescribed the Corinthians so to haue and that all such publike Iudges to serue a whole realme or countrie were not lawfull or were néedlesse bicause in the Primitiue Church they had no suche publike Christian Iudges for a whole realme or countrie might not this growe to the manifest iniurie not onelie of th◠Iudges but of all the whole common-weale Yea might not the Christian Prince feare that by the same rule if it were true that ye saye there was no Christian Prince then when the Churche was perfect in all her regiment he might be driuen cleane out of his ciuill regiment too and out of all not supreame onelie but anye authoritie at all among the Christians and cleane dispossessed of his kingdome except he would content himselfe to be a Iudge chosen in one particuler citie So that neither inheritance nor a whole Realme or Realmes to bee ruled by anye one christian Prince could hold any plea if such rules might be coined on such examples And then forsoothe the churche of GOD as before there was anye christian Prince so after they are all thrust out or reduced to that state that they were in might be saide to be perfect in all hir regiment once againe And that the Churche of God may stande and dooth stande in moste blessed state where the ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers nor beare the greatest rule but all is brought againe to the estate it was in before in the Apostles time Doo ye not sée what a most blessed estate the churche of God would come vnto by this rule And I pray you bretheren what warrant haue you more or so muche for the prescription of your Seniorie in euerie congregation as is héere prescribed by S. Paule for the choosing of this Iudge or ruler among the perticuler congregations of the christians We must take héed therfore how we stand on such examples or how we enlarge any rule that was particuler to the time or state then or to the place or persons there to be-come an ordinarie generall absolute or perpetuall rule to vs and to the whole Churche whether it be by S. Paule or by S. Peter or by any or by all the Apostles or by our Lorde and Sauiour Iesus Christe him-selfe practised yea or commanded For diuerse examples and commandements were but for certeine times states places and stretch no further As the Disciples to carrie neither golde nor siluer nor money nor scrippe nor two coates nor shooes nor staffe Matth. 10. To abstaine from things offered to Idols and from bloud and from that that is strangled Acts. 15. And that men should praye bare headed c. 1. Cor. 11. And albeit that in the commandements and rules prescribed of these things and of the like neither Christe nor his Apostles tell that they were to continue but for a time yet leueling the same by the analogie of our faithe and by the proportion of our Christian libertie we find no such necessitie in these thinges nor of any other such like orders as in the regiment of the Primitiue churche was vsed For though they were vsed as orders or as ornanaments to beautifie the blessed estate of the Churches regiment then yet neither the blessednes nor the estate therof consisted in them when they had them And if any church that now flourisheth haue any of them it is neuer the more blessed for them as of anye necessitie to the estate thereof And if any haue them not and haue other good orders of regiment established among them it is neuer the lesse blessed of God for the not hauing of them If they haue what is necessarie that sufficeth Prooue either this Seniorie to be necessarie for vs imagining there had béene any such or els all this most blessed estate resolues to nothing But neither of these is yet prooued nor I feare mee euer will bee that there were any such Gouernours at all or that we are bound in euerie particuler congregation to obeye or to haue suche a Segniorie But we are bound to haue and to obeye in all lawfull ordinances our Princes and Magistrates especiallie being Christians and fauourers and fosterers of the Churche of God defenders of the faithe setters foorth and professors of the Gospell Where suche Princes are as wee muste néedes confesse we haue except we be too vnthankefull there indéed the Churche of GOD may stand and standeth at this day in farre more blessed state with-out this Segniorie then where this Segniorie standeth and the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers or to speake plaine English are no fauourers at all but haters and persecuters of the Gospell And thus wee sée how weake and vntrue both these propositions of these reasons are by the which as a notable great reason in the end scars◠woorth a little currane these our Learned Discoursers auouched that it might be to euerie man so plaine that it was neither needfull nor agreeable to good order of teaching to begin first to treate of the supreame authoritie of Christian princes in ecclesiasticall causes Now a◠we thus haue séene the valor and truthe of these two propositions whereon their reason is made so let vs sée their conclusion of this reason Their conclusion is this By which it is manifest that the regiment and gouernment thereof dependeth not vpon the authoritie of princes but vpon the ordinance of God who hath most mercifullie and wiselie so established the same that as with the comfortable aide of christian Magistrats it may singulerlie flourish and prosper so without it it may continue and against the aduersaries thereof preuaile For the churche craueth helpe and defence of Christian princes to continue and go forward more peaceablie and profitablie to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe but all her authoritie she receaueth immediatlie of God Is this then the conclusion of their reason What is this to the present question Or how hangeth this vpon the premisses Maye not th◠princes supreame authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes be first treated vpon except this must streight be concluded on it by which it is manifest that the regiment and gouernment of the churche dependeth not vpon the authoritie of princes but vpon the ordinance of God Wherefore is this so farre fetched conclusion brought in héere Before you sai◠it seemeth not yet telling to whome but now it seemeth that it seemeth so to you and that for a manifest and plaine conclusion that if the princes supreame authoritie be first spoken of then all the churches regiment dependeth on it But I cannot tell how it seemeth to you to be a manifest and plaine consequence I promise you it séemeth not so to me Nor I thinke to any man that will way the reason with any reason And yet you threape such kindnesse on vs that are God be thanked reasonable creatures also that it now goeth beyond it
seemeth for it is manifest Whereas indéed not onelie it seemeth but is manifest to be a manifest violent and extorted conclusion Yea a manifest iniurie both to God to his churche and to all the authoritie of all godlie Christian Princes and most manifest wrong vnto her Maiestie Dooth her Maiestie in claiming the supreame authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes in that portion of the churche of God committed to her Maiesties gouernement or in not yéelding to this your desired regiment claime this that the regiment and gouernement of the churche dependeth vpon her authoritie And if ye say ye meane not her Maiestie but speake still vpon Princes at large though ye mend not the matter but make it worse yet would to God ye would once name soone to put the matter out of all suspition and let them beare the blame that claime such highe authoritie and absolute power that all the regiment of the Churche dependeth thereon No I am sure ye can name no godlie Prince that dooth so And yet sée not onelie how ye make this a manifest conclusion but how to aggrauate the matter and make it more odious ye conclude it also with an opposition betwéene the Princes authoritie and Gods ordinance saying by which it is manifest that the regiment and gouernement thereof dependeth not vpon the authoritie of Princes but vpon the ordinance of God As though the Princes authoritie were not also the ordinance of God As the Apostle expresselie saith Rom. 13. Let euerie soule be subiect to the higher powers for there is no power but of God And the powers that be are ordeined of God Whosoeuer therefore resisteth resisteth the ordinance of God And shall we now make an opposition betwixt the authoritie of Princes especiallie speaking of Christian Princes and Gods ordinance How could the verie enimies of vs both either the Papists or the Anabaptists haue roughe hewen a sharper conclusion against Christian Princes authoritie than this is Notwithstanding least Christian Princes should take iust offence not onelie to haue their authoritie thus cleane cut off but cast out of the doores also of the Churche of God with such a contumelie as an authoritie opposite to Gods ordinance and yet claiming all the Churches regiment to depend thereon This conclusion shall bee afterward smoothed with gentler termes and Christian Princes shall haue somewhat graunted to appease them And what in this conclusion is that authoritie that shall be now yéelded vnto Christian Princes Forsooth that God hath most mercifullie and wiselie so established the same that as with the comfortable aide of christian Magistrates it may singulerlie florish and prosper so without it it may coÌ„tinue and against all the aduersaries thereof preuaile For the Churche craueth helpe and defence of Christian princes to go forward more peaceablie and profitablie to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe but all hir authoritie she receaueth immediatlie of God Whye what againe is this to thâ— supreame or to any authoritie of Christian Princes in ecclesiasticall causes Héere is some-what indéede for the Churches authoritie but we speake not now of the Churches authoritie so much as of the princes authoritie in the Churche except they will héere make a double oppositioÌ„ not onelie betwéene the princes authoritie and Gods ordinance but also betwéene the prince and the Churche and either of their authorities the princes and the churches and so enter into a new question which of these is greater But this is another great iniurie offered to christian Princes who are by this meanes as it were thrust out not onlie of their authoritie in the Churche but as being either none at all of the Churche saue as an opposite part thervnto or if a parte of the Churche yet a contentious parte for authoritie striuing with the Churche of the which them-selues are a principall parte and member For what else meane they by these wordes the Churche craueth helpe and defence of Christian Princes but that they seperate the Christian Prince and the Church And whom meane they then by the name of the Churche the whole oâ— particuler bodie thereof But all the people deale not with the gouernement of them-selues nor are their owne Gouernours which would bréed a great confusion in their gouernement and quickelie come to no gouernement at all If they meane these foure Tetrarches as it séemes they doo they likewise be but partes to the Churche as are the Princes and inferior parts of the Prince also except they will contend for superioritie aboue the Prince But inferior or superior they be but partes and cannot claime to them-selues any more the name of the Churche being but the Churches Ministers if all be so then the Prince or the people may Nor so much neither the Prince representing the head and the people being the bodie And if they say they bee Christes ministers so is the Prince also no lesse in his function then anye of them in theirs And let them looke to it thus vnder the name of the Churche to part all the churches authoritie among them and so oppose their authoritie as the churches to the Princes authoritie For thus played euen the verie popish Priests the common enemies to vs bothe And vnder pretence of the churches authoritie and that they were the churche the Ecclesiasticall persons and the churche men and that the Prince and the people were but méere laye and ciuill persons seperate from the churche they not onelie kept the people downe but also wroong all authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes from the Prince And vsed euen the same tearmes of the churche and the Ciuill Magistrate that héere these our brethren vse Yea and the same reason and giue the christian Princes as much yea the selfe-same titles that héere our brethren doo While thus betwéene them bothe the christian Princes are spoiled of all their authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes For what is all that is giuen to christian Princes héere but to be onelie aiders helpers and defendors of the churche And doo not the Papists vse the same tearmes And giue as goodlie titles as these to christian Princes Yes and more and better too But what is this vnto regiment gouernement and authoritie No héere is nothing mentioned but the regiment and gouernement thereof Wherof Of the Prince No of the churche And the churche craueth helpe and defence of christian Princes but all her authoritie is immediatlie of God So that of the Prince she receiueth no authoritie at all For if sâ—ée receiue all immediatlie of God then shée receaueth none immediatlie nor mediatlie of the Prince And if the receaue none from the Prince but all of God immediatlie without anye authoritie of the Prince then is she exempted from all the authoritie of the Prince and all her authoritie is aboue all the authoritie of the Prince Yea the prince hath no authoritie at all ouer her And so not onelie the Prince for anye not supreame but any authoritie
at all ouer the churche in Ecclesiasticall causes maye goe séeke it else-where for the churche is sped alreadie of all her authoritie from God immediatlie with-out any from the Prince but also the prince hazardeth his ciuill authoritie too For if the churche finger any of that also it is as good as a Mort-maine against the Prince For why the prince may helpe her make her flourish and prosper but all hir authoritie is immediatlie of God Haue not Christian princes héere a faire supreame authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes left them If the churche deale thus with christian Princes is that churche woorthie of the comfortable aide of christian Magistrates and to haue it when it craueth helpe and defence of Christian princes that will acknowledge her selfe to receaue no authoritie at all of christian princes If shée saith shée will acknowledge that shée receaueth that is to say comfortable aide of christian Magistrates with the which it may singularlie flourish and prosper and that shée acknowledgeth the helpe and defence that shée craueth of Christian princes to continue and go forward more peaceablie and profitablie to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe This is yet some-what more then before was graunted So that the churche hath néede of Christian princes comfortable aide helpe and defence And then with-out them shée is not so perfect in all her regiment nor in moste blessed nor so much blessed estate but that I perceaue shée is more blessed with them and where the princes are fauoures of the churche and Gospell and kingdome of Christe there it may flourish and prosper and that singulerly which is some-what more yet by one ace then where the princes are not the greatest fauorers But where they are fauorers there the church that belike stood still before or went backeward or went forward more difficultlye may goe forward not onlie more peaceablie but also more profitablie to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe This is much more then was before graunted Yea but say they as it may haue all these benefits by the princes helpe so without it it may continue and against the aduersaries thereof preuaile GOD forbid else But dooth it nota great deale better preuaile with it Yes but what is all this vnto anye gouernement regiment or authoritye in the Prince ouer the Churche My fréende maye helpe me that hath no authoritie ouer me yea so may my seruants that are vnder my gouernement and with their comfortable aide helpe and defence when I craue it I may singulerlie flourish and prosper Yea the prince himselfe be he neuer so high and mightie may craue comfortable aide helpe and defence of an other prince or of his owne subiects wherby he may both singularlie flourish and prosper And also continue and go forward more peaceablie and profitablie not onelie to the maintenance of his owne estate but also to the setting vp of the kingdome of Christe what shall we conclude héereon that such persons therefore haue any authoritie ouer him And this is all that is héere affoorded to anye Christian prince ouer the churche of God And how much is this Forsoothe for any authoritie more or lesse when it comes all to all none at all And why so For the churche receiueth all hir authoritie immediatlie of God What and nothing mediatelie of man No Not of the Apostles Nor by all or by any of these foure estates Or are they onelie the churche and haue all the authoritie Yea are they God himselfe if they onelie be not the churche Or dooth God giue them still that power that they haue or pretend to haue of him immediatelie and by his owne selfe without any mediation and that in all the authoritie not onelie of preaching the word and ministring the Sacraments and binding and losing but also of electing imposition of handes and ordeining ministers and of calling Councels and of making anye ordinances and constitutions concerning any Ecclesiasticall matters What if some of these be of God but yet mediatelie of God by Gods Ministers And what if some of them be of God also but mediatelie from the Christian Prince Yea what if the Christian princes authoritie be of God also as much immediatlie as the churches authoritie Yea and more immediatlie then can be prooued for all these foure estates But be the princes authoritie of God immediatlie or mediatlie of God by man hath not the Christian prince as much authoritie now since Christes and his Apostles time héere in earth as it had ordinarilie before Or did the churche of Christe begin onelie then and not rather from the beginning of the worlde as Gellius prooueth against the Anabaptists that the churche still not onelie in substance of the mysticall bodie and of doctrine but also of the authoritie of gouernment was euen from the beginning of the world one and the same Adam Abraham Moses Iosue the Iudges Dauid Salomon Asa Iosaphat Iosias Ezechias Zorobabell c were all christian princes Had all of them authoritie from God either immediatlie or mediatelie and haue christian princes no more authoritie then is héere allowed Or howe and when where haue they since lost it When we reason against the papists that still pretend the churches Authoritie meaning thereby their popish Hierarchie that they might bereaue all christian princes of their supreame authoritie in Ecclesiast causes we bring foorth the examples of Moses Iosue Dauid Salomon Iosaphat c. If they had not béene in substance grounds of one the same faith with vs Chri. Princes then though not so called as well as these that are called Christian Princes now or if ChristiaÌ„ Princes haue not as much authoritie now as the Princes in and ouer the Churche of God had then then are these examples and the arguments drawne from them nothing to the purpose but the Papists and the Anabaptists will deride them Yea as Saint Paule saithe of the Resurrection of Christe 1. Corin. 15. If Christe bee not risen then is our preaching vaine and your faithe is also vaine and wee are found false witnesses of GOD. So if these arguments for the Princes authoritie from the Olde Testament to the New are not substanciall and good arguments then our preaching and alleadging of them against the Papists and against the Anabaptists is in vaine c. But these arguments of their examples are firme and good standing vpon one and the same perpetuall rule of the Princes charge and gouernement in bothe Testaments so confute bothe the Papists and the Anabaptists Christiâ—n Princes therefore according to the examples of Adam Moses Iosue Dauid c. Haue as much authoritie both mediate and immediate from God as the Ministers of the Churche or the Churche it selfe hath to be Gouernours in the Churche and ouer the Churche of God also or ouer any other of Gods Ministers Not to haue the Ecclesiasticall Ministers peculiar offices and Ecclesiasticall authoritie or to execute the actions
or chiefe of all the Clergie there which was indéede the Bishop or ouer-seer of them all whom Christ here calleth the Angell of the Church of Ephesus And so likewise we haue also to thinke of all the other Churches there named Loe howe this most reuerende and learned man hath him-selfe against himselfe found out in the new Testament a great deale more than one syllable not of gathering the least surmise but manifest euidence that some one yea diuerse some such ones bare this office of Bishoppes as Princes or chiefe in regarde of their fellowe Pastorall Elders and of the whole Clergie as principall watchmen set ouer the other inferiour watchmen in their seuerall greater or lesser Cities and congregations And therefore this Bishop that here is called the Bishop of man is manifestlie brought in by Gods worde cleane contrarie to this ouerbolde assertion of this most reuerent and learned out-landish man who-so-euer sauing his reuerence he be Neitheir can this shift following elude this proofa wherein he saith And Austen calleth the moderator Proestôta yet this moderator of actions of the Church sauing this one thing that he was the first in order in the companie had no authoritie ouer his fellowes neither did he exercise anie higher office I would faine the place had béen quoted where S. Augustine calleth the moderator Proestôta That we might turne vnto it and peruse it whether it be appliable to this question yea or no. I feare me greatly S. Augustin hath no such saying especially meaning it of a Bishop that hee was such a Moderator of actions of the Church sauing this one thing that he was the first in order in the cōpanie but had no authority ouer his fellowes neither did he exercise anie higher office And what a Moderator call ye that which doth not exercise anie higher office Is his moderatorship no office And how can it be a moderatorship and not higher And how can he moderate his felowes except he haue some authority ouer his felowes Is this no more but this one thing to be the first in order in the companie Or rather is it not to be the last in order and the first in authoritie of higher office For in order the moderator speaketh the last and in all deliberations determineth that is endeth and knitteth vp the matter And the first in order is rather in dignitie and authoritie the lowest and commonly the punie as they terme him to all the companie Wheras if he be the moderator to moderate the sentences of thē all his last voice strikes the stroke and hath the first and highest authoritie in the company Yea but he is the moderator of actions of the Church And doth that abbridge his authoritie What should he moderate being a man of the church but actions of the church Graunt this there an end For whether ye meane by the Church all the people of God or onely the Clergie as vsually we take the name if he must moderate all their actions how hath he not in this moderation an authoritie ouer them and an higher office If yée meane by the actions of the Churche the actions of the Clergie assembled in a Synode And is this no action of the Churche to call and assemble the synode together and appoint thē time and place and propound matter to them as causes of the said assembly or shall not the moderator the Christian Princes supreme authoritie alwayes preserued moderate these actions of the Church if not name who shall if he shall by what authority and howe then are these actions of the Church to bee vnderstoode onely of moderating the actions of those that are assembled in the synode But if this party whome S. Iohn in the Reuelation séemeth to call the Angell of the Churches be this Proestos this moderator of the Churches actions was there then in euery one of those 7. Churches when S. Ioh. wrote to their Angels that is to their Proestotes and moderators a synode holden at that instant for if there were not thē these angels Proestotes moderators were not so called in that respect but in respect of those actions that were vsual continuing among them And indéede such are the matters that Christ there doth commend or discommend them for and not for moderating actions of any Synode then holden or for being president in any such assemblies It followeth therefore that if they be of Christ himselfe called Angelles in the Reuelation and as heere is sayde of Austen Moderators and Proestôtes that is Prouostes or such as had a principall being or cheefe standing among and ouer the Cleargy that the termes were giuen them rather for a continual office of higher authority wherby they should be the presidents moderators of euery assembly when any such should by them be summonced rather than they should be called by these names onely for being presidentes and moderators of them when they were assembled when as there were no such assemblies there at that time to moderate nor Synodes whereof they should be Presidents But saith this most reuerend and learned man Therfore the author of the Epistle to the Hebrues as Hierome noteth doth call the whole companie of the Elders gouernours not any one certain man Where Hierome noteth this is not héere noted and therefore I can not note what Hierome noteth thereon But that the author of the Epistle to the Hebrues calleth the whole company of the Elders Gouernours What hindreth this but that they also might haue a gouernour ouer them and yet their selues be gouernours ouer others and doth S. Paule speake there of any such companie of these gouernours assembled in a Synode as this learned man speaketh of else wherfore is this here alleaged and yet if he spake of such an assemblie of these gouernors if his speech should not admit any some one certaine man to be gouernor also of them how should then one be president in euerie assembly sithe that all thinges ought to be done orderlie in the Lordes house if they be all alike and equall gouernours neither is the example of Peter next alleaged any whit against it but rather for it Such a one saith this learned man was Peter manie times in the very assembly of Apostles of a great authority surely amongst the Apostles who were all otherwise equal and yethe him selfe one of the company of thapostles sent by his companions to Samaria with Iohn Act. 8.14 and in the assembly giuing an account of his ministery to those which were of the circuncision Act. 11.2 If Peter many times were such an one that is to say a President Proestôs and moderator of the assemblies of the Apostles This is not onely to be of a great authoritie among them but also if of any authority at all then this great was greater among the Apostles then the authoritie of others at that time was But did this great or greater authority by
farre therevnto So that the ordeyning of Timothie sheweth not by the Eldership that the rule is false but that the rule is true which coÌ„cerning this matter that is the ordeyning of Elders by the laying on of handes doth attribute it to the Apostles Sithe nowe none of all these fetches will serue haue we any more shiftes left to helpe the matter Againe for as much as election is the chiefe grounde of Church offices which dependeth of the voyces of the whole companie and not of the laying on of hands which made not Bishops but sent theÌ„ into their possession after they had made them we may more truely affirme with the Apostle that the holie Ghoste by the voyces of the children themselues made the Fathers and not the Bishops Here is yet one or two deuises more together And first sithe the ordeining of Bishops and Pastors of the Church is so manifest a prerogatiue of the Bishops to eleuate the same and to withdrawe vs from it to the election of them which he calleth the chiefe grounde of Church offices I can not tell what he may gather ofthese wordes the chiefe grounde but I take not election to be the chiefe point to proue the prerogatiue of superiour dignitie and authoritie For as there is a difference betwéene these two as is confessed alâ—eadie by Caluine so though the election procéede from other groundes as from the causes why the partie is to be elected and so tende more to his commendation that is elected or their profite for whose sake he is elected yet is the ordeyning and giuing him the office that he is elected vnto manie times both the greater dignitie and authoritie to the giuer and the surer state vnto the taker Although no certaine rule can bee made heereof For manie a meane man may giue possession of a thing who not-withstanding hath not the gifte thereof nor anie voyce in electing him thereto And againe manie a one may giue a voice in the election which hath not yet so great dignitie and authoritie as solemnely to inuest the partie elected in the office and possession of the same For if election as héere is sayde dependeth on the voyces of the whole companie as when the people had the election of their Bishoppe and it was sayde Qui praefecturus est omnibus ab omnibus eligatur Hee that must rule all must be elected of all shall wee nowe saye that euerie one among the people that had a voice in election of the Bishop had a superiour or had but an equall dignitie and authoritie with him that consecrated and ordeyned him Bishoppe And is the action of consecrating and ordeyning by laying on of handes being indéede an higher action than giuing a voice in the election yea than is the whole election so farre debased vnder election and election so aduaunced ouer it that it is héerâ— sayde it made not Bishops but sent them into their possession after they had made them meaning the people that elected them And is the electing then to be a B. the making of a Bishop And is the ordaining of a B and the laying on of handes vpon him the solemne action which the Apostles vsed wherof Paul gaue such a charge prerogatiue to Tim. to Titus but the sending them into their possession which other had giuen them And did not the Apostles nor Titus nor Timothie but the people make them Did the people then make Bishops And had the Apostles lesse authoritie in making Bishops than had the people And what meane these spéeches that the election dependeth on the voyces of the whole coÌ„panie What is héere meant by the company Are not the people of the companie as well as the Clergie And must it néedes be the whole coÌ„panie May not maior pars or senior or sanior the greater the senior the sounder part serue but that it must depende on the voices of the whole companie or else it is no election indéed election dependeth not vpon the laying on of handes but rather the laying on of handes vpon election But yet is not this true that is here sayd The laying on of handes which made not Bishops but sent them in to their possession after they had made them For of the twaine rather the laying on of handes doth make them and not sende them but set them in the possession of their office by making of them officers Whereas the election whosoeuer elected them did but electe or chose them before to be afterwards made by laying the hands vpon theÌ„ But now be the election of neuer so manie and of the whole companie may there not bee suche a difference also of superiour dignitie and authoritie euen in the electors that perhaps a fewe yea some one may carrie a greater stroke than manie among them or than all the residue and haue as they saye a voyce negatiue to counterpeyse all their voyces affirmatiue When Paule had Titus to ordaine or make Priestes or Elders in euerie Citie in Creta Hee seemeth sayth Caluine thereupon to permitte too much vnto Titus while he biddes him make ministers ouer all the Churches For this should be in a manner a regall power And furthemore by this meanes the right of electing is taken away from euerie Church and the iudgement from the colledge of the Pastors But this had beene to prophane all the holy administration of the Church But the aunswere is easie It is not permitted vnto the will of Titus that he alone might do all things put into the Churcher what Bishops it pleased him but onely that he should gouerne the elections as a Moderator according as it is necessarie This kinde of speeche is common inough So the Consull or the Regent in the time of vacancie or the Dictator is sayde to create Consulles For that hee helde the sessions or meetinges in which they were to be chosen So also speaketh Luke of Paul and Barnabas in the Act. 14.13 not that they onelie as at their commaundement set Pastors ouer the Churches neither allowed nor knowe 〈◊〉 â—â—cause they ordeyned fit men which were chosen or desired of the people We earne indeede of this place that there was not theÌ„ such equality among the ministers of the Church but that some one man was aboue them in authoritie and in Counsell but this was nothing to that tyrannicall and prophane custome of collations which reigneth in the Popedome For the manner of the Apostles was farre different Whereby it is apparant that there was not suche equalitie in the minisâ—erie in the Apostles dayes and in the primitiue Church as is pretended but that as some one was the principall doer in the making and consecrating of the Pastors and Fathers of the Church so also some one was the principall gouernour euen in the election Which though he vsed no tyrannie force selfe-will nor absolute power therein as the Pope
in Ignatius or other auucient writers whosoeuer they be whatsoeuer they speake or write neuer so-good neuer so holie neuer so true what though it were when the bishop of Sathan was not yet founde out if it once be towching the authority of bishops Ouer-seers it is all to be reiected with this contumelie It is to be vnderstode of this kinde of bishoppe whiche is called The bishoppe of Man that is to say brought into the Church by the alone wisedome of man besides the expresse word of God Thus doth this moste Reuerend and Learned man froÌ„ beyond the Seas in a round conclusion giue his iudgement of them and so he leaueth them Let vs now therefore leaue him also to returne a Gods blessing beyond the Seas from whence he came and with all due reuerence taking our leaue of him in expectation of other reuerend and learned Fathers Iudgements from beyonde the Seas also Let vs now for the present returne home to our Brethren where we left them in their Learned Discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment THE ARGVMENT OF THE FIFT BOOKE PROCEEding still further on the Pastors THis booke treateth specially on the Iudgements of other reuerend and godly learned men from beyonde the seas also in the late reformed Churches concerning this superiour authority dignity of one pastor in a citie or Diocesse or Prouince ouer his brethren and fellow pastors Which one was called in a citie or diocesse bishop in a prouince Archb. To the proofe whereof are alleaged vpon our brethrens allegation of Titus What superiour authoritie he had ouer all the pastors of Creta with the iudgements of Bullinger Caluine Aretius Hemingius Herebrande with the orders of other reformed Churches for their Superintendents speciall and generall The B. and Archb. of the fathers and other canons of the auncient churches regiment approoued by Caluine in Geneua with the approbation of Ieromes sentence and that this order was in the Apost times and not contrary to the Apostolicall Doctrine with Caluines epistles to diuerse B. and Archb. to the King of Polonia approouing this superior authority and his generall rules for all popish B. conuerted to the gospell The iudgement of Zanchius and Bucer for those olde orders specially of bishops Archb. for the old clericall discipline and regimente due vnto them of the obiections to the contrary out of Peter and of the Titles proper to Christe and whether the name Archb. be coÌ„petent to any Minist of Peters Title of fellow Elder and of Christs prohibitions of Titles rule of his example of washing his Disc. feet c. and of humility Lordship of bishops holding temporalities royalties of obedieÌ„ce vnto them in the same of Diotrephes with caueats for the Ministers lawful authority and against vnlawfull liberty by aequality lastly of Bezaes iudgement on these matters for the Apostles and the auncient orders of the renuing those orders in the state of Geneua The Learned Discourse IN the same manner of speaking he describeth the qualities of those which were to be chosen Bishops and Deacons Likewise vnto Titus 1.5 Hee calleth them elders and immediately after describing the qualities of such as were meet to be ordeyned elders hee calleth them bishops saying For this cause did I leaue thee in Creta that thou shouldest continue to redresse the thinges that remayne and that thou shouldest ordeyne elders in euery City if any bee vnreprouable the husband of one wife hauing faithfull children which are not accused of riot nor are disobedient For a bishop or ouerseer must be vnreprouable as the steward of God not froward c. COncerning the communicating of these names Pastors Priestes or elders and byshops indifferently or the being of the office all one and the same vntill furder order in the Apostles times were taken we haue at large before declared But as for the matter that among these Pastors Elders or bishops some one Pastor elder or bishop had a superior gouernment ouer many of the residue in the same order as wee haue plainly prooued it by Saint Paule through-out all the same his Epistle to Timothy héere alleaged and also out of the other Epistle vnto him so for this Epistle likewise vnto Titus 1.5 Which Epistle appeareth to be so late written by Saint Paule that there is no such iourney or aboade in any such place mentioned in all those iourneyes which Saint Luke so diligently in the Actes recordeth therfore it should rather séeme to be written after that time Bullinger in his Preface on this Epistle to Titus sayth when it was written eyther before or after the Apostle was taken it is not euident ynough Theophilacte thinketh it written before his bondes and before the later to Timothie were published Certainely hee that wil search it more diligently shall not want coniectures whereby it may be gathered that it was written after that by the sentence of Caesar hee was at Rome acquitted But were it written then or after or before or as Chytreus also in his Onomastichon gathereth yet maketh it no lesse if not much more vnto this purpose that euen at that time while the name of Preest or Elder and Bishop was yet vsed in common notwithstanding there was yea and that no small difference among these Preestes or elders and Bishops in the degree of superiour gouernment which is apparant by the text it selfe wherein Saint Paule giueth Titus beeing a priest or elder or pastor or Bishop a greate deale more authority and superior dignitie then ordinarilye appertayned to euery Preest or elder or Pastor or Bishoppe or by what name soeuer they were tearmed Which Caluine himselfe vpon these wordes For this cause haue I lâ—ft thee in Creta c. doth note saying This beginning doth clearely shewe that Titus is not so muche admonished for his owne sake as commended vnto others leaste any shoulde hinder him the Apostle committeth vnto him his owne turnes Wherefore it behooueth that hee bee acknowledged of all men for the Apostles Vicar and bee reuerentlye receyued For sithe that no certayne station was assigned to the Apostles but an office enioyned to them of spreading the Gospell through-out all the worlde whereas therefore they trauayled out of one city into another they vsed to substitute fitte men in their place by whose labour that which they beganne shoulde be finished So Paule boasteth that he founded the Church of Corinth but other were the master workman which ought to builde therupon that is to further the building This indeede belongeth to all Pastors â—or the Churches shall alwayes haue neede of encreasinges and of furderaunce so long as the worlde endureth But beyonde the ordinary office of pastors a care of ordeyning the Churche was committed to Titus for pastors are wont to bee placed ouer Churches that bee already ordeyned and formed in a certayne manner But Titus susteyned a certayne burden more that it is witte
attempted to take vpon him Of which contention very many Epistles among the Epistles of S. Gregory lib. 5.6.7 are extant At the length vnder Phocas the Romayne obteyned this Title of the vniuersall Bishop Which title by little and little the bishops of this sea began more to abuse vntil vpon occasion first by the diuision of the Empire vnder Charles the greate afterwards by the discordes of Princes and nations whereby they brake the power of the Emperor of the West and of other kings They haue lift vp themselues into that Anti-Christian power whereof now they vaunt hauing firste oppressed the power of the Bishops and then also of the kings and Emperoures Thus therefore hath Sathan ouerthrowne all the healthfull obedience gouernment of the clerical order For the Romaine Antichriste hath taken an immediate Empire vnto himselfe ouer all the Cleargy and also ouer the Laity hath dissolued the custody of the Bishops when they were good and their care towards those that were commended to their truste But because it is altogether necessary that euery of the Clerkes should haue their proper keepers and carers for them the power and authority as of Bishops so also of Archdeacons and of all other by what meanes soeuer they be esteemed vnto whome any portion of keeping and gouerning the Cleargie is committed is to be restoared and also their vigilancy and heedfull regarde or correction leaste any should bee at all in this order 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vnkept Thus farre Bucer not onelye faithfully reciting but also praysing the custome of the auncient church in diuers orders of Ecclesiastical functions to be ordeined of the which we haue before spoken Moreouer I ought also to haue had consideration of those churches which although they haue embraced the Gospel notwithwanding both in matter and in name they haue retayned their Bishops and Archbish. Besides that in the Churches also of the Protestants there want not in very deede Bishops and Archbishops whome hauing chaunged their good Greeke names into euill Latine names they call Superindentes and generall Superindentes but where also they neither obteine these old good Greeke names neither these newe euill Latine names euen there notwithstanding some principals or chiefe are wont to bee vnto whome almost al the authority doth belong Poynting out as it should séeme to Geneua c. The controuersie therefore should haue beene of names but whenas we agree cōcerning the matters what do we brawle concerning the names In the meane season euen as I haue not dissallowed the Fathers in that matter whereuppon the quaestion is so can I not but loue our mens zeale Who haue therefore hated the names bicause they feare least with the names the olde ambition also and the tyrannye with the ruine and desolation of the Churches might be called againe Thus reuerently writeth Zanchius of these Ecclesiasticall orders of this superiority of Bishops and Arch-bishops yea and of the Patriarkes also before the pride and tiranny of Antichriste came and that it came not by these orders and dignities but by the ambitious breaking and violating of them and he neither disalloweth but highly commendeth these Fathers and these orders and dignities as good and necessary and nothing preiudiciall to the word of God nor condemneth the zeale of these our brethren though he shewe withall that albeit they shunne and hate the name of Bishop and Archbishop yet they haue the matter and retain still such principall or chiefe ministers among them to whom almost all the authority doth belong Now as hee hath thus at large defended and confirmed his 10. 11. Aphorismes so comming to the 12. he proceedeth against the ambition tyrannie of the Pope to shew that none of al these orders and dignities no not of the Patriarkes were any occasion therunto saying For neither Christe ordeyned such an head neither the auncient Fathers would admit it bicause it was not expedient for the Churche But they were contented with 4. Patriarks the Romain the Cōstantinopolitane the Alexandrine and the Antiochien who all of them should be of equall authority and power and ech one should bee content with his owne bowndes euen as it was defyned in the Nicene Councell confirmed in others and that not without great waighty causes Of the which this in my iudgement is not the laste to wit leaste the dores should be opened vnto tyrannie in the Church but rather that if one should dare to attempt any thing contrarye to the sownde doctrine of Christ and contrary to the liberty of the Church The other Arch-bish being of no lesse authority with their bishops might oppose themselues and dawnt his boldnes breake his tyrannie The Church in respecte of Christe is a kingdome In respect of men that are in the same eyther do rule or be ruled it is a gouernment of the best persons This is Zanchius graue iudgement euen of these Patriarkes that if they had beene kept as they ought to haue béene and according to the good purpose of their institution they were so litle occasiōs to any popish pride or tyranny that they were the most especiall suppression of it and of al errors and factions in the Church and that it impeacheth nothing Christes kingdome And what hath Zanchius said héerein saue for the bare title of Hierarchie that Caluine himselfe doth not anow who saith Institut Chr. cap. 8. de Fide Sect. 54. But that al the particular Prouinces had one Arch-bishop among the Bishops and that in the Nicene Councell Patriarks were ordeyned that in order and dignity should be superiour to the Arch-bishop that thing appertayned to the conseruation of discipline Albeit in this disputation it can not be ouerpassed that these degrees therefore were chieflye instituted for this cause that if any thing should happen in any Church which coulde not be well dispatched of a few it should bee referred to a prouinciall Synode If the greatnesse and difficulty of the cause required also a greater discussing that Patriarkes were adhibited together with the Sinodes from the which there should be no appeale but a generall Councell The gouernment being thus constituted some called it an Hierarchie an holy gouernment or sacred principalitye by a name as seemeth to mee vnproper verily vnused in the Scriptures For the holy Ghost would take heede least any should dreame of principaiity or Domination when as the gouernment of the Church is treated vpon Howbeit if omitting the name we shall looke into the matter we shall find that the old Bishops would not faigneanother forme of gouerning the Church different from that which the Lord by his word prescribed Thus also doth Caluine his selfe confesse besides that which he before cōfessed And what shoulde wee then as Zanchius saide brawle about the name the matter whereof is thus of al these so excellent learneed men both the auncient Fathers and also the late or yet lyving moste
is so plain and orderlie set down but is so intricate and confused that we can scarse make a good Syllogism or almost any sensible reason of the same And first for his conclusioÌ„ where he taketh that for the cause or key of his argumeÌ„t which in Latine we call Medium the meane which is repeated in either proposition to infer proue S. Pauls conclusion that is Women shuld not teach in the Church which if he wold proue ought he ought to haue proued this he proueth not but by this he would proue that they ought not to speake in the church Whereas contrariwise he should haue made his key or wreast of this argument to haue ben on speaking and therevpon to haue concluded teaching As thus God suffereth not women to speak in the church but to teach inferreth to speak ergo he suffereth theÌ„ not to teach But as he now turns it another way so he so doubles it with teaching with ruling c. that both he marreth the argumeÌ„t the sense of either proposition for where he saith in the Maior God neither will haue women to rule nor to teach nor to vsurp authoritiâ— ouer men he seemeth here to speake of three distinct things that God would not haue to be in women ruling teaching vsurping authoritie ouer men But what meaneth he here by vsurping authoritie ouer men Is not that all one with Praeesse to rule them or to be ouer or aboue them If it be then is not here 3. but 2. distinct things that God wold not haue to be in womeÌ„ if he make the difference to be herein that by ruling or being ouer them he meaneth good lawâ—ull Gouernment by vsurping naughty gouernment then maketh hee a good difference but withall hee acknowledgeth some gouernment of women to be good lawful and some that is vsurpation to be naughty and so I hold well with him in this partition of Gouernment But then how is this Proposition true that God woulde haue neither the one nor the other For God forbids not simply any lawfull thing If he say that lawfull gouernment is not simply forbidden but onely to the Women it still comes all to one passe For the Proposition is not of Gouernment simply in it selfe but of Womens Gouernment whether it be simply evil and of womens vsurpation For either both these are but all one for if her Gouernment be simply euill What is it else but meere vsurpation or if it be distinct from vsurpation which in women and men also is méere and simple euill what is it else but good and lawfull Besides that this Proposition take ruling or vsurping authority howe he will not simply true is not onely concerning gouerning nor yet for teaching For were it simply true it coulde admit no debarre of any occasion or necessity nor anye exemption of such especiall persons as were lawfullie called thereunto which we haue seen at large both by examples and testimonies of the scripture and by argumentes and playne confessions euen of our Brethren them-selues both for gouerning and for teaching besides that we shall yet more playnely see by Danaeus owne confession after ward Now as we see this confusion of these tearmes in the Maior or more generall proposition so the Minor is farre worse and cleane marreth all the argument For whereas to inferre his conclusion it shoulde haue followed thus But to speake in the Church is to rule to teach and to vsurp authority ouer men Ergo God woulde not haue it that women may or ought to speake in the Church This had beene a plaine argument But then this minor had had a plaine deniall Nor Danaeus nor all the world can euer prooue it that to speake in the Church is to rule to teach and to vsurpe authority ouer men And so were all this argument moste easily ouerturned But Danaeus whether rethoritically as not bouÌ„d to the streight limits of Logick or to make the argument more diffuse inuerteth the minor on this wise First he repeateth women here againe whom he bringeth also into the conclusion and so clean ouerthrowes all forme and nature of any argument Besides this and that which is moste vitious in any forme of argument he placeth with speaking in the Church Gouerning and though somewhat more ambiguously teaching also Making the fore part of the sentence in Latine called Subiectum as the subiect matter whereon any thing is spoken to consist here of these thrâ—e Whereas these tearms to rule and to teach should haue bin placed with the third tearm to vsurpe authority ouer men all three in the Predicatum that is in the thing that is spoken on the matter subiect Which three should bee made the key of his argument or cause whereupon he shoulde infer his conclusion and so be reserued to be repeated in the later parte of his assumption or minor Proposition of his argument which it seemeth he would haue brought to the first mode of the second figure of syllogismes which later part of his assumption or minor proposition he maketh here to be onely the taking a kinde of gouernment and authority ouer men which before he ioyned together with ruling and teaching and nowe he seuereth it from rule and teaching Neither yet maketh he it to be all one with that he saide before but in-stéede of that hee called before vsurping heere hee commeth in with taking And where before hee spake simply onely of authority here he commeth in with a Quoddam imperium a certaine kinde of commaundement empire or gouernment and authority Neither is it ynough with transposing and chaunging thus these termes cleane to ouerthrowe his owne argument but also he maketh this minor proposition as confused and intricate if not much more than was the other For if we shoulde english this proposition word by worde At qui loquitur in ecclesiasiue praeest ea docet in viros sumit quoddam â—imperium authoritatem Hee or as I rather thinke it shoulde be shee that speaketh in the Church or else ruleth she also teacheth taketh a certain Empire authority vppon men Sée howe intricately and confusedly these words are placed Mought they not more clearly haue bin distinguished She that speaketh teacheth and shee that ruleth taketh on her a kinde of gouernment and authority But then had both these partes béene soone confuted For although it be moste true that shee which ruleth taketh on her a kinde of gouernment and authority yet if this taking on her bee referred to the vsurpation mentioned in the former Proposition for else also the argument hath more tearmes then it ought to haue which word vsurping is vsually taken in the worst part for theÌ„ that take gouernmeÌ„t authority vpon them hauing no right thereto for that is properly tearmed vsurping and so in-déede it is a certayne kinde of Gouernment and authority but not a right and lawfull gouernment and authority then
heare how a matter was adiudged If Bodinus would looke better on his owne Countries olde Chronicles or but consider those that we haue noted it would not séeme so new a matter But whatsoeuer that Mawde made there our owne Countrie hath a better example of a more noble Mawde the Empresse and that had no small roialties in Fraunce too besides many other far more excellent women that haue spoken many notable publike speeches both with the praise of God man to the benefit of the Church and common weale So that it is no such absurd nor ridiculous thing for such women as haue iust cause to bee in open assemblie Neither is this any lapping of themselues in mens peculiar function And therefore for anie thing in this argumēt which Bodinus on these examples draweth a minore ad maius Women may gouerne wel inough beare the roiall Scepter that God putteth into their hāds Not that the things which appertain to the Maiestie of gouernment shuld be laid open to womens lust nor to mens lust neither but not to be locked vp frō their right These are but ouerlustie speeches for so graue a man so waightie a matter but more vnseemly for godlie Princes Maiesties Herevpon he frameth a Dilemma For first saith he there is one of these two Either the woman shall bee ioyned in mariage or else she shall gouerne by her selfe If shee marie yet notwithstanding it is womens gouernment because she marieth with that lawe that the rightes of the Maiestie gouernment may remaine together but not to her husband For that expresly was excepted when Isabel Queene of Castile was maried to Ferdinand king of Aragon And the same againe was called vpon in the mariage of Philip Prince of Spaine and Mary Queene of England Which also was prouided for in the mariage couenaunts of Sigismund the Emperour of the Germaines Marie Queene of Hungarie whome her subiects called King Marie Which lawes were made with most vnequall conditions sith that the husband which by the law of nature is the head of the family and hath the gouernment domesticall is compelled publikly to the womans gouernment because the gouernmēt domesticall hath nothing common with the gouernment publike And hereto he quoteth the ciuill Lawe L. nam quam attinet ad Trebell And can Bodinus see this manifest difference and not see withall how he fully answeres his Dilemma But we haue séene this also sufficiently answered before both in the exāples of Debora the queen of the South diuerse others As for the couenants in these mariages were verie good necessary for both estates nothing dishonorable to the husbands No not that tearme of the Queene of Hungary that was called king if we vnderstand it as our Lawiers do that be the person raigning man or woman yet the law for the dignitie of the sexe still acknowledgeth all as king And as the Scripture containeth Eue in the name of Adam women children often in the generall name of man And this doth Bodinus owne example that he alleadgeth hereunto confirme For saith he when Fabius Maximus which was called Cunctator the delaier riding on horsback approched neere his sonne being Consul he was of him cōmanded to alight whē as the father might by his fatherly authoritie haue killed him indicta causa without hearing the cause Now vnaduisedly of so famous a lawier and learned historian was this spoken Coulde Fabius Maximus at that time beeing but sent as a Legate vnto his sonne then Consull chiefe magistrate of the common weale haue put him the chiefe magistrate to death and that without his cause heard Or was the lawe that he quoteth In suis de liberis et posthu which is long since abolished of no force to be vnderstoode so absolutely in generall that it admitted no exposition no not of the publike and chiefe magistrate Yea rather is not the chiefe magistrate in a higher thā the natural priuate respect the Father of the Countrie common weale so of euery particular person or priuate Father Which thing Fabius Maximus did well consider that his sonne Fabius Gurges did represent in his magistracie politicall fatherhood an higher estate and maiestie than for that time his naturall fatherhood could compare vnto And therefore he alighted forthwith as he was commanded obeieth his magistrate not his son reioyceth in his sonnes doing that he could thus wisely discerne betwéen the states Which example with others in the Scripture of Iacob and Ioseph of Salomon and Bethsabee cléerely confuteth Bodinus dilemma euicteth all the cause For if this be no blemish to the Father to obey his sonnes commandement publike authoritie not in respect he is his naturall sonne but his ciuill father nor any absurditie or inequalitie in the sonne to ouer-rule command his Father not as his priuate Father but as his politike subiect for the proportions of this rule obedience are not here Arithmeticall but Geometricall the iustice of thē distributiue not cōmutatiue how is not this absurditie of Bodinus and these vnequal lawes as he supposeth cléerely answered when the woman obeieth her husbād as her husband yet the husband obeieth the wife as his prince as we haue séene before in the example of Debora her husband not he but she being iudge of the people so in that regard his iudge also without anie inequalitie or absurditie Yea much more easie may this be in the state of man and wife than in the state betwixt the Father and the sonne the sonne owing far more obedience to his Father the Father hauing more authoritie ouer the sonne as his sonne thā the husbād hath authoritie ouer the wife or the obedience that the wife oweth to her husband But since these authorities as Bodinus cannot choose but confesse are so distinguished that the one hath nothing cōmon with the other the publike with the domestical the naturall with the ciuil this iustice that giueth in each proportion Singula singulis will neuer confound these things nor bereue anie partie sonne or wife of their honour in the one for their seruice in the other but let both stand intier in their states The other part of Bodinus dilemma if the Queen marrie not because it is nothing but an heape of contumelies against womenkind with more impotent inuectiues thā we haue had before in Caenalis both for the honor shamefastnes of the sex for the verie shame of so learned a mans forget-getting himself I passe it ouer as a fallation ab accidente as was the other part of the argument The examples of Vasthies arrogancie disobedience is nothing pertinēt The soueraignty of the kingdome was not in the right of her but of her husband so in all respects she ought obediēce As for the examples of Ioane Queen of Naples Athalia Cleopatra Zenobia Irene
And yet must these be added to the residue that the Churching or thankesgiuing of women after their child-birth might altogether be omitted and that among the superstitions vsed in buriall no kinde of praying nor preaching should be vsed If preaching be the soules foode who did last forbidde it And besides these thinges what sturre and hote contentions haue béene raysed vp for a number of other thinges which in regarde of preaching though otherwise in their kindes and degrées they be comely and decent yet in that respect may be accounted for small trifles And therfore I would wish our Brethren to take good héede what here they say that they are not to be excused if any for small trifles only rayse vp hote contentions sith this toucheth themselues néerer than they wéene What maketh them to cast foorth these spéeches But that they thinke eyther these matters for which they thus contende are matters of great importaunce or else that not they but we rayse vp suche hote contentions for them And indéede though in their owne nature many of them be indifferent yet being by lawefull authoritie ordeyned to be vsed for publike order and for comelinesse they are become hereby more important than that it may be lawefull to any priuate man at his owne voluntarie to shake them off except by the like lawefull authoritie whereby they were brought in they shall be remooued Yea in this case we are bounde to be hoate for defence of them also so wée excéede not the boundes of Christian charitie both for obedience to the lawefull authoritie that made them and also for the order and comelinesse sake for which they were authorized not to sée them impugned sithe that in the impugning of them not onely the obeyer yéelding to them is defaced but the lawes and Magistrates authoritie in making them is violated and indaungered Wherein although the defenders be hoate yet properly not the defenders but the impugners are indéede the verie raysers of these hoate contentions And therefore by this their owne saying our Brethren are not in this behalfe to be excused but rather with griefe and in charitie be it spoken to be accused yea they accuse in these wordes their owne selues as disturbers of the Churches quiet Neither can they shelter themselues vnder this worde onely saying they raise not vp this hote contentions for small trifles onely but that among their quarells there are some of great importance For let anie of thē be of what importance soeuer they shal be found to be ought they only or not only to raise such hote contentions for any suche small trifles Now as in this point they plainly make themselues not excusable so much more in adding these wordes So haue they much to answere before God that suffer the people of God to lacke the only food of their soules for such humane cōstitutiōs Verily this goeth néerer to the quicke For howsoeuer we may shufle out aunsweres one to another when we shall come to aunswere before God we can not so answere before him For if none should suffer the people of God to lacke the only foode of their soules for such humane constitutions shall our Brethren be excusable that being lawfully called to the office of distributing this only foode of our soules do altogether with drawe themsemselues and that onely if they will afforde them no better title for such humane constitutions But they say the fault is not in them for they would gladly continue in feeding the people of God if they might be suffred Yet doth this their owne saying still make them vnexcusable For séeing they be but such humane constitutions as should be rather suffered than that they should suffer the people of God to lacke the only foode of their soules they suffring this for not suffring the other do invincibly recharge themselues that herein they haue much to aunswere before God If our Brethr. reply that these humane constitutions for which they suffer the people of God as farre as in them lyeth vtterly to lacke the onely foode of their soules be such as by no meanes are sufferable and can not be ioyned with the deliuery of the worde of God this requireth to be better proued than yet it is Which if they can proue then wee must néedes yéeld the fault to be in vs and that we haue much therein to aunswere before God and to crie God heartily mercy and ioyne them And also I hope vpon such proofe euery good man will do But for my part I could neuer yet sée this proued As for any humane constitution that our cōmunion booke and the Eccl. gouernment of our Church of England doth require of them hath bin further by others I also I trust haue euidently sufficiently proued for those that as yet we haue séene that they are none other humane constitutions but such as may well stande with the Pastors feeding the people of God with the onely foode of their foules to wit the word of God And therefore they haue much to aunswere who by their not yéelding to them but rather cleane forsaking the Pastorship cōmitted to them and ministerie of the word and sacraments are the cause their selues that they be not suffred to preach and so suffer the people to lacke the only foode of their soules for thinges which are in comparison farre inferiour matters But to conclude say our Brethren it is the dutie of euerie true Pastor to obserue those things that are concluded by the lawfull authoritie of the Church concerning ceremonial matters for order and comelines sake and for aedification and not to controll publike order by his priuate iudgement but vpon great and waightie causes This is a good conclusion that our Brethren do here make of all these matters But do they not yet sée how flatly withall they conclude against themselues For we are now in hand with ceremoniall matters And the whole Church o◠England hath fully concluded long since that by lawfull authority that these things are to be obserued cōcerning ceremoniall matters for order and comelines sake for aedification What foloweth then But as our Brethr. here do say it is the dutie of euery true Pastor to obserue those thinges and not to controll publike order by his priuate iudgement How then doe our Brethren in controlling and not obseruing those things obserue the dutie of true Pastors Do they think that their iudgement is not priuate iudgement But what is it else For although they were some greater number of Pastors thā they be yet being compared to the lawfull authority of the whole Church of Englande they are but priuate Pastors and their iudgement priuate especially beeing depriued by lawfull authoritie of their Pastorship or rather exauthorating themselues of the ministery Do they think this exception which they reserue for the last cast and place it as a rereward in the end of this conclusion but vpon
No man may take vpon him any honoure in the Churche of God but hee that is called of God as was Aaron Insomuch that Christe him-selfe did not giue himselfe to be an high Priest but he that said vnto him Thou art my sonne this day haue I begotten thee Hee saith in another place Thou art a preest for euer after the order of Melchizedech Nowe seeing these rules are so general that the Sonne of God him-selfe was not exempted from them but shewed foorth the decree wherein he was authorised by what rule can any man retaine that authority in the church of God which is not called thereto by the word of God All this againe being graunted vnto beateth more our Brethren the Learned Discoursers that it doth our Bishops Our Brethren take vpon them more in these their pretended reformations than eyther they haue hetherto done or I think euer wil be able to shew their warrant and calling authorizing them thereunto by the worde of God Likewise we can alleage againe against the supremacy of the Pope to proue that Peter was not superior to the other Apostles that which our sauiour Christe saith to his Apostles Luke 22.26 And Math. 20.25 Marke 10.42 It shall not bee so among you but hee that is greatest amongst you shal be as the yongest and he that ruleth as he that serueth And Mat. 23.8 You haue but one Master which is Christ and all you are all brethren If these places prooue that the Pope ought not to bee aboue other Ministers of the Church why doe they not likewise prooue that the Ministers are equall among them-selues And for the moste part all those arguments and authorities of Scripture that are vsed to confute the vsurped authority of the Pope are of as great force against all other vsurped authorities of one pastor ouer another These sentences of our sauiour Christe hauing béene before alleaged by our Brethren page 28. 29. haue beene already sufficiently aunswered that they neither forbid the titles nor the authority that we acknowledge in our Bishops by the confession of the best writers euen among our Brethren themselues Which sentences as they are rightly alleaged against the supremacy of the Pope to prooue that Peter was not such a superior to the other Apostles as the Papistes doe pretend so are they not rightly alleaged to prooue that he haâ— neuer any kinde of superiority but no such kinde of superiority as the pope falsely claymeth in the name of Peter For not onely all the auncient Fathers and all the best writers acknowledge as we haue séene some superiority in Peter such as contrarieth not these sentences but also S. Paule is moste plaine herein that S. Peter had a kinde of superiority if not to all yet to many of the other Apostles And for these sentences as we haue already at large considered the peyse of them so the first sentence heere cited alloweth in playne words both a Ruler among them and a greatest so that hee bee in humilitie and seruiceablenesse as courteous and diligent as if he were yongest or as hee that serueth The other place here cited You haue but one Master which is Christe and al you are Brethren prooueth clearely that the Pope ought not to claime that mastership which he requireth but it proueth not that were he otherwise a true a true faithfull Bishop hee might haue no Mastership at all for than our Brethren might not be called Masters neither as we and that worthily call M. Caluine M. Beza c. Masters But this sentence is against the Pope not against them because the pope not they woulde intrude him-selfe into that absolute and supreme Mastership and Lordship Which properly and onely belongeth to our Lorde and Master Iesus Christ. But our brethren demaund why doe they not likewise prooue that the Ministers are equall among themselues And so they do in respect of the supreme Mastership of Christe and in respect simply of their Ministery but the reason why they proue not such an equality as our brethren surmise is because they are spoken absolutely against all kinde of superiority and Mastership among them And therefore where they say that for the most part al those arguments and authorities of scripture that are vsed to confute the vsurped authoritie of the pope are of as great force against all other vsurped authorities of one pastor ouer another Although this be but a loose consequent yet we may well graunt this conclusion for vsurped authorities But till our Brethren can prooue some such among vs as are vsurped al these sentences argumeÌ„ts and authorities are but vsurped and wrested against their authority which is lawfull Therefore while we entreate of the authority of the Pastors we must take heede that we open not a Windowe to popish tyranny in steede of Pastorall authority and that wee enlarge not the bounds of authority without the boundes of the scripture We also like well the caueat of this conclusion Woulde God our brethren would in-déede take heede vnto it For if it be not taken heede vnto in time their Pastorall authoriâ—â— wâ—ll so enlarge the boundes thereof that it will not onely tyrannize ouer the authority of the Doctors whom they cleane debarre from all publike exhortation reprehension conselation and application and ouer all their Seniory of newe Gouernors as wee shall God willing see in this Discourse but ouer all the Church And it beginneth pretily well to abbridge the Christian Princes and ciuill Magistrates supreme authority in ecclesiasticall causes as in part wee haue already seene and al without the bounds of the scripture But this their Pastorall authority by that time their gouerning Seniory were euery where setled and established and had enlarged her boundes in euerye Congregation woulde bee méetely well repressed as we haue séene in the forme of prayers printed at Geneua And thus woulde one enlarge it self â—uer another which might open not a windowe but the broad gates to a worse than Popish tyrannie and still all without the boundes of the Scripture Wherefore while we search the scripture the onely rule whereby the Church of God ought to be gouerned we finde that in regiment gouernance of the Church the pastor B. or elder hath none authority by himselfe seperated from other For in the Church there ought to be no Monarchie or sole absolute gouernment but that is referred particularly to our sauiour Christe onely â—2 Tim. 6.7 Iude. 4. Christe sayth search the scriptures for in them ye reckon vnto your selues that ye haue eternall life and they bear witnesse of me Iohn 5.39 In searching the scripture we finde this rule where the Apostle warneth Timothy But abide thou in those thinges which thou haste learned and which are of trust committed vnto thee Knowing of whome thou hast learned them and that thou hast from a childe knowne the holy
inquirie must bee made by witnesses Signifieng that the complainers must not easilie bee beleeued Moreouer that the fame and name of those that are good must bee fauoured that they bee not openlie defaced with euerie small rumour First heere I take Priest or Elder by office and age that is the Ministers must not bee condemned except diligent inquisition be had Neiâ—her onely the Ministers but all persons of graue yeeres For vnto whome God hath giuen a good name and grauitie of age it behoueth to worshippe them in the place of parents Therefore diligent heede is to be had that the defamers bee not rashlye beleeued against such persons Moreouer because such Priests or Elders were Iudges and Senatours Ecclesiasticall that corrected other for their sinne according to the reason of their fault it is credible that they incurred the offence of many insomuch that they shoulde not want backbiters It was therefore a matter worthy of admonition that nothing shoulde rashly bee credited against them Neither followeth it therevpon that witnesses shoulde bee had onely in these and in other they must proceede without witnesses yea rather because in these grauitie is required he teacheth that the same must be had in euery Ecclesiasticall iudgement In the meane time there are many light and childish matters in which neither the integritie of the fame nor name is touched wherein there is no neede of like rigour Let vs therefore establish this for a common rule that in all Ecclesiastical iudgement the president or gouernour must haue care that in a godly and holy sorte inquisition may be made of mens sinnes Thus doth likewise Aretius drawe this precept of Paule to Timothie to a generall rule that in the consistorie in criminall causes euen agaynst a Minister whome he calleth also a Praesident ouer the people the hearing that the Bishop is a higher Praesident aboue him and hath the admittance and his iudging of the matter And what differeth Beza herein from these Against an Elder sayth he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Greekes referre this to men of more auncient yeeres which to mee seemeth verie absurde For although somewhat ought to be giuen to the hoare head yet I see no cause why in this point the condition ought not to be alike But in a Priest there is a farre other reason because it is certaine that Sathan layeth his snare chieflie against this sort of men And for that cause none are so much thrall to slaunders and backbitings In hearing therefore the accusations of them there is most neede of great heedfulnesse But thou wilt saie what is that Heere mee thinkes some haue stumbled while they thinke that nothing is heere praescribed of Paule which in all iudgements is to bee obserued And therefore they sweate much in vntying this knotte and doo manifestlie wreast the wordes of the Apostle insomuch verily that some which thing Erasmus out of a certayne Epistle written by Saint Ierome to Marcella rehearseth doo cleane blotte out all that member following and then expounde it receiue not that is receiue not easilie Howbeit I doo not suppose anie difficultie to bee heere for it is one thing to admit the accusation and anotherthing to absolue or condemne the accused But this is the office of a iudge to heare anie that will accuse whom afterward if they shall not throughly proue him guiltie he may chastise according to their deserts But for all this when as a Priest is accused the Apostle would haue a certaine peculiar thing to be obserued that no man shoulde bee admitted no not so much as to accuse him except before hand afore two or three witnesses he shall cause his accusation that is to come to bee beleeued So that the Priest be not straight waie condemned or the cause heard in his absence But that after it shal appare that it wil not be a friuolous accusatioÌ„ That then at the length the guiltie partie shall be called and that it shall bee lawfullie determined on the whole matter But I finde the cause of this Apostolicall constitution to be two folde to wit because as I said right now none are alike thrall vnto slaunder as are godly Doctors And then because in a manner no priuate iudgement can bee ordained against a Priest sith that it must needes bee ioyned with the publike offence of the whole Church Insomuch that although hee bee absolued notwithstanding some imfamie therevpon shall redound to the whole Church and that there should bee neede of great caution not onelie in iudging him but also in admitting his accuser Moreouer we must note out of this place that Timothie in the Ephesine Presbiterie was then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Antistes the Bishop as Iustine calleth him not that he should doe all things as he listed but that for his godlinesse and wisedome hee shoulde moderate all things that all things in the assemblie should bee well done and in order Thus doth euen Beza also not onelie acknowledge Tymothie to haue bene the Bishop of the Church of Ephesus but also that both he had and euerie Bishop by this rule ought to haue this authoritie of moderation whether anie accusation and how farre forth shoulde be admitted against a Pastoral Elder and in hearing and determining the cause to be his iudge Which authoritie in so great a Consistorie as then and there was beeing singled and separated out from other vnto him how had other anie parte with him of the same And as it was thus in triall of matters pleaded before him so if anie Pastors were found to haue openly offended Timothie againe in the next verse and in Timothie euerie Bishop hath authoritie giuen him ouer anie such pastors openly to reproue them And the reason is aâ—ded by the Apostle That the other also speaking especiallie of the otheâ— Pastors may haue feare From hence saith Aretius is this noble argument drawen Feare in the church is to be confirmed therfore Ecclesiastical iudgemeÌ„ts are grauely to be administred so that sith the Bishops authoritie should be such as shoulde strike feare in the other pastors it is apparant they had not the same nor equall authoritie with him And so Hyperius referreth all this in generall to the authoritie of Bishops though the matter be brought before the Church and that the Bishops should seeme to fauour their sinnes if he dealt not thus And hée concludes in these wordes But of what matter the Priests or Elders may be accused and reproued before the Bishop it were long to dispute And the next verse declares yet further his separate authoritie I charge thee before God and the Lord Iesus Christ and the elect Angels that thou obserue these things without preferring one before another and do nothing partially This contestation saith Hemingius wherwith as it were with an oathe Paul bindeth Timothie declareth howe harde the office of a Bishop is And it containeth a verie serious admonition least that in
thus indefinitlie and in generall that the authoritie of Christ is lefte vnto his whole Church and so to euerie Church But that certayne partes of the authoritie of Christe is lefte and that in a certain legantine and ministeriall manner vnto his whole Church and so to euerie Church And yet not so that euerie Church that is euerie particular congregation hath as full authoritie of that part as the whole Church hath but that the whole or to euerie Church it is so lefte that none maie chalenge Episcopall or Metropoliticall authoritie as it is with vs at this day ouer other without great tyrannie and manifest iniurie This indéed is a méere we saie it not we proue it Against this our Brethrens we saie as though all laie on their bare saying and that whatsoeuer they saie we must holde it by and by for an oracle or for such a principle as the Pythagoreans did the saying of their Maister 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he said it Wee haue heard at large what Saint Paule hath said to Timothie and what a number of most excellent men in the primitiue Church and some immediatlie after the Apostles times by the cléere testimonies of the vnsuspected histories and auucientest fathers and by the graunt of the best late writers in the reformed Churches haue had both Episcopall and also Metropolitical authoritie as it is with vs at this daie ouer other without anie tyrannie great or little without anie iniurie manifest or hidden at all And if they might haue it they might chalenge it Yea to chalenge them for it much more to take it from them were rather not onelie the greater tyrannie and more manifest iniurie of the twain but to saie the authoritie of Christ is left vnto his whole church so to euery church that none in the church hath anie power or exercise thereof ouer other is the greatest and most manifest confusion that can be For by this rule we must not saie as our Br. héere doe Let vs then see what is his authoritie ioyned with others first who are so ioyned in commission with him that without their consent he can doe nothing but we must rather saie Let vs then see what is his authoritie ioyned with others and first who are not so ioyned in commission with him that without their consent he can doo nothing if the authoritie of Christ be left vnto his whole Church so to euery church that none may chalenge it ouer other So that now there shuld not only be no Metropolitical authority ouer Bishops nor Episcopal ouer Pastors but also no pastorall authoritie ouer the people For the people are some bodie as I take it both in the whole Church and in euerie Church also Yea if these words which our Brethren so generally saie we saie therefore that the authoritie of the Church is left vnto his whole Church and so to euerie Church be not restrained to that parte of his authoritie that consisteth onelie in the Ecclesiasticall regiment of his Church it will as much indanger all Magistrates ciuill estates that they haue no authoritie neither ouer other For they hold that also of Iesus Christ and it is a part of his authoritie ouer his Church But howsoeuer that may stande or fall héereby the Princes supreame authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes ouer all persons Ecclesiasticall and ciuill in their dominions is cleane taken awaie from them euen as wel as the Metropolicall ouer the Bishops or the Bishops authoritie ouer the Pastors Nowe although this moste absurd and moste daungerous confusion of all authorityes Ecclesiasticall and ciuill might ensewe heereon Yet our Brethren hauing promised héerein that they woulde be bolde to say these sayings and hauing hethereto though boldly yet but barely saide them they will nowe bée bolde as good reason is they shoulde to assay to proue them For seeing our Sauiour Christe promised his presence and authority to euery Churche indifferently Mathewe 18.19.20 None may challenge any such prerogatiue afore other but as the churches are limitted out for order and conueniency so is euery one of them of like authority in it selfe but because they make all but one Church and one body of Christe therefore there is but one authority in them to determine of matters concerning them all This argument still relying on this former cited sentence Mathew 18.19.20 which properly treateth of the efficacy of prayer where the faithfull although they be in neuer so small a number assembled to make their petitions in Christes name are promised that God the Father will graunt their requestes and that Christ also will bée present among them neither comprehendeth all the authority that Christe hath left vnto his whole Church or to any especiall persons in the same neither if it bée drawn to matters of gouernment and authority is any debarre against any particular auth of any Pastor more thā of any Christian Prince or magistrate For how followeth this Christ will be present where 2. or 3. are gathered together in his name therfore wher but one maketh his praiyers alone vnto him he will not be present except our bre can bring this exclusiue only or at the least into this promise of Christ that where 2. or 3. only or two or three at the least are gathered together in his name hee will bee present with them If then this followe not in prayer wherof this sentence properly is spoken howe much lesse doth it holde if wée stretch this promise of Christe to matters of gouernment in the church as I graunt it reacheth also thereto As to reason thus Christ hath promised that where two or three bee gathered together in his name to consent on the establishment of any authority or gouernment of his Church his presence and authority shall bee among them therefore if the Christian Prince eyther by him-selfe and his supreme authority doe establish any thing in the Church or though hee ioyne other with him yet not in authority but as counsellors or though in authority also yet not as equall in authority with him except hee and they and all gathered together in the name of Christe bee of the like authority in giuing their consents vnto the matter neither Christes presence will bee with them nor his authoritie will ratifie their doing If this reason holde not but bee an vntrue and moste daungerous resolution in these matters that are done of the christian Prince neither yet of him alone but of other in cōsultation with the prince but the only superior and supreme ouer all other which are all partes of the Church and assembled about matters of the Churches Gouernment doth it holde anye more against Bishops and Pastors How agréeth this euen with their own assertions afterward Pag. 114. of Iames his prerogatiue in the assembly of the Elders at Ierusalem Was not the holy ghost among them because one had this prerogatiue Neither helpeth it that they say this
house hee drue awaie as many as hee was able And yet to shew further not onely that this order of Elders was aboue the Deacons but that of Deacons they were made Elders Sozomenus li. 1. cap. 14. saith Of these disputations Arius was the author an Elder of the Church of Alexandria which is in Aegypt Who although at the beginning he seemed very studious of the doctrine of Christ yet was hee a furtherance to Meletius attempting new matters Whos◠parts when he forsooke he was of Peter Bishop of Alexandria ordained Deacon And afterward of him cast out of the Church whē Peter deposed the fautors of Meletins and improued Baptisme This Arius inueighed grieuously against the Acts of Peter and could by no meanes bee quiet But when Peter had suffered martyrdome Arius crauing pardon of Achillas was not onely permitted to exercise his Deaconship but also was exalted to the degree of the Eldership Afterward Alexander had him in great estimation c. By this it may not onely appeare that the orders and Senates of Elders in such great Churches as these were Ministers of the worde but also were thereto promoted hauing before ben Deacons When therfore we reade in Socrates as in the restoring of Athanasius lib. 2. cap. 18. th◠Letters of the Emperour Constantinus directed vnto the Bishops and to the Elders of the Catholike Church saying Moreouer vnto the benefit bestowed on him this also we thought good to bee noted that all those that are inrolled into this holie number and companie of the Cleargie may vnderstand that securitie is giuen vnto all be they Bishoppes or bee they Clarkes that haue holden with him it argueth that there was indéed such a companie of Elders whom heere hée calleth Clearks but we cannot gather hereupon that they were such as ministred not at all the word and Sacraments but rather the contrarie For else if Athanasius the Bishop had beene the onely Minister of the word and Sacramente◠all the people of Alexandria had beene destitute of the worde and Sacramentes all the while of Athanasius banishment And to confirme this that these Elders about the Bishops had not onely the publike ministration of the word but also that some one or other of their number was appointed to heare the cōfessions of such as wer penitent and in token of their vnfained repentance to inioyne them to submit themselues to some bodilie chastisement which therevpon was called penance At that time saith Socrates li. 5. ca. 19. the Church thought good that the Elders which had the gouernment of the order of inioyning penitēce in euerie Church was takē awaie And that on this occasion frō the time wherein the Nouatians separated themselues from the Church refused to communicate with those which in the time of the persecution raised in the raigne of Decius had fallen the Bishops of the Churches added vnto the Canon that in euerie of the Churches there should bee one certain Elder which shuld be ouer the Penitencies to the end that those which after Baptisme were fallen should before the Elder appointed for that purpose confesse their offences This Canon as yet among other sects remaineth ratified and firme They onely which confesse the Father and the Sonne to be one in substance and the Nouatians that consent in faith with them reiected this Penitenciarie Elder The Nouatians would neuer from the beginning suffer this to be so much as a hanger by The bishops which now gouern the Churches althogh for a good space of time they haue held this institution notwithstāding in the times of the Bishop Nectarius they chaunged the same by reason of such an offence as then by chance was committed in the Church a certaine noble womā came vnto the Penitenciarie Elder confessing particularlie such faultes as after her Baptisme she had committed The Elder commaunded the woman that she should giue her selfe to fastings and to continuall praiers Wherby together with the acknowledgment of her sinnes shee shoulde declare a worke meete for her repentaunce The woman proceeding further in confessing accuseth her selfe of another fault and declareth that a Deacon had laine with her For the which offence by this meanes beeing made manifest the Deacon was driuen out of the Church and a tumult was made among the multitude of the people For they grudged not onelie against the offence committed but also for the note of the grieuous slaunder and reproch that thereby was raised on the Church Whē as therefore the sacred Priests were verie much euill spoken on for this cause Eudaemon a certaine Elder of the Church a Countrieman of Alexandria gaue counsell to the Bishoppe Nectarius to remoue the Penitenciarie Elder and to giue free power that euery one according to his own conscience should come to the participation of the mysteries For by that onelie meanes it should come to passe that the Church shoulde bee voide of all spot of infamie These things because sayth Socrates euen I my selfe had them of Eudaemon I doubted not plainly to commit them to this our historie In which wordes these Elders hauing this office among them which pertaineth especiallie to the ministration of the worde and all of them indifferentlie called Sacerdotes as well as Presbyteros it is againe apparaunt by Socrates whom◠Danaeus citeth that these Elders were not such as héere our Brethren doe conceiue or pretend but Ministers of the worde and Sacramentes which in the next Chapter saue one following doeth yet more fullie appeare Where Socrates shewing the diuersities in diuerse places concerning Easter daie Fasting Marriage Diuine Seruice and other Ecclesiasticall obseruation amongest other matters saith on this wise Moreouer I my selfe haue knowen another custome to haue growen in Thessalia that there he which is a Cleark if after he be made a Cleark he lie with his wife whom he married while hee was a laie man is deposed from his Cleargie Whereas all the famous Elders in the East yea the Bishops and all are by no lawe compelled to abstaine from their wiues except it please themfelues For euen while they gouerne their Bishoprikes not a few of them beget children of their lawfull wiues Hee that was the author of that custome in Thessalia was Heliodorus of Trica a citie of that region of whose making are the amorous bookes which hee composed when he was a young man and intituled them The Aethiopian historie hee meaneth that of Theagenes and Cariclea The same custome is kept also at Thessalonica and in Macedonia and in Hellas Besides this I haue knowen another custome in Thessalia to wit that they baptize in the dayes of the feast of Easter onely For which cause all of them except a very few die without baptisme The Church of Antioche in Syria is set contrarie to other Churches for the Altar or Communion table is not set Eastward but Westward In Hellas and at Hierusalem at Thefsalia the prayers are made while the candles are lighted after
example of goodnesse or humilitie but with all his indeuour onely seeking honours promiseth him-â—elfe witte and wisedome to springe out of his power Whereupon that of Demosthenes is true to atchiue a matter luckily besides woorthinesse is an occasion for fooles to imagine and thinke euill But our Basill as he is made a rule and example vnto other of his other vertues so also of a Priest and of the Ecclesiasticall ordination For euen froÌ„ the first swathing-bands of the Sacerdotall offices he grew vp by little and little in-so-much that hee disdayned not in anie wise to be made a Reader of the holie scriptures and then to bee made an interpreter and expounder of them euen as Dauid sayth Let those of the chayre of the Elders prayse the Lorde and so at length deserued he to be made a Bishop Which place he neuer at any time sought nor euer wished In which sentence we not onely sée the complaint of Gregorie howe many came to be Elders yea and Bishops also in those dayes as in all ages like corruptions and complaintes haue béene but especially it grewe then of the disordered and factions elections of the people so for the purpose nowe in hande we sée heereby that these Elders were the sacred Priestes whose office consisted not in gouerning only but with â—ll in the ministerie of the worde and Sacraments And how by degrees 〈◊〉 â—xâ—â—cising theÌ„selues in matters tending vnto teaching they attayned or ought to haue attained vnto this Eldership from thence such as excelled were or ought to haue béen promoted to be Bishops Except it fel out otherwisâ— by extraordinarie occasion in some rare and singular men as in Ambrose and Thalassius euen in Caesarea where Basil was Bishop c. and of other Elders than these here is no mention Nowe when Basil was thus ordeyned an Elder Gregorie sheweth how he exercised himselfe vnder Eusebius B. of Caesarea how he laboured against the Heretikes in exhorting and teaching of the people how hée sent for Gregorie to come helpe him And here Gregorie setteth downe Basils example vnto him For sayth he euen as Barnabas in times past was present with Paule to make manifest the trueth of the Gospell and common conflict of the faith so came I then vnto my Basil as his fellowe against his fight with the Arians Listen to the Epistle where-with he called me Make readie thy selfe haue regarde to deliuer me in this present conflict and with vs to meete them which desire vtterly to ouerthrowe vs whose boldnesse thou shalt bridle onely with thy countenaunce and shalt cause that they shall not make our matters goe to wracke and therefore all shall knowe howe thou onely by the grace of God dost gouerne our congregation and that thou shalt eâ—sily represse euery wicked mouth and the insolencie of them that speake against God But sayth Gregorie to returne my speech to my purpose Basill returning to Caesarea regarded nothing more than to pacifie Eusebius to the end that he might ouer-throw the Heresie and wholly to serue him and be ready at his hande in all those thinges that were of God that hee might make apparant to all men that all thinges which hee had suffred of him for Eusebius had béene heauie before vnto him proceeded from the instigation of the Diuell that the common enemies of the fayth might haue the greater aduauntage by their rageing as the Papistes get nowe by our Brethrens and our Bishops falling out though the Bishops doe all they can to pacifie them whereas Basilius laboured all that he could to pacifie his bishoppe but he when as he knewe very well the lawes of obedience and of a spirituall life hee was attendant on him in all thinges in hearing in consulting and in doing he employed his spirituall and diligent endeuour for the bishop And to say at one word he grewe as much into his fauour as before he seemed to be farre from it For which cause Eusebius helde indeede as bishop the chiefe place in the Church but Basill had the power of the Church and the authoritie The one fate in the chiefe dignitie the other went about all the businesse For there was a singular and wonderfull concorde betweene them The one helping the other and taking strength the one of the other the bishop growing strong by the counsell and wit of Basil and Basill by taking authoritie of the bishop To conclude the bishop had the people and he the bishop And euen as he that tameth a Lyon being inferiour in strength doth handle him gently and make him tame by a certaine arte by which meanes well neere he asswageth molifieth the violence and fiercenesse of the wilde beast so Basill the greate behaued himselfe about Eusebius For when he hauing ben of late a laie man and ignorant of Ecclesiasticall matters was exalted vnto this dignitie especially at the same time that the flame of Arius heresie did beare the swaie he was not fit inough for this burthen Wherevpon hee wanted Basil to be his guide and helper chieflie by whose vertue there was hope that the matters would haue prosperous and good successe And therefore it was not as some suppose that Basil was vnder the Emperor IuliaÌ„ but he was bishop after the death of Valens But wheÌ„ as he receiued the gouernmeÌ„t administration of the Church of Caesarea vnder the bishop Eusebius he appeased all discords hee remooued all priuie grudges he established their manners not onelie with his words and excellent Sermons that he vttered but also by the example of his life For hee endeauoured to helpe the people both with his spirite and his bodie with his body by labour and exercise careing for them by walking about euery waye by courteous behauiour and by helping theÌ„ with his riches spiritually by teaching by admonishing and by giuing to all men a measure and institutions of their life Thus doth Gregorie set foorth the ecclesiasticall gouernement of Basill and of his owne gouernement also being Elders vnder the bishopp in the Churche of Caesarea consisting as muche and more in teaching than in the correction and composing of manners and censures of discipline And that these were not distinct offices in the diuerse kindes of Elders but they medled with both together and both vnder the bishop â—nâ— hâ—wâ— God blesseâ— this ecclesiasticall gouernement vntill Basill him-selfe after the decease of Eusebius was made their bishop And then sayth Gregorie after hee had praysed Basill in this promotion â—s for mee all men thought when they hearde of his promotion that I would foorth-with departe he meaneth from the place where he then was and that I would goe to him and that I should haue equall power with him they knewe that there was such friendshippe and beneuolence betweene vs. But I when as I shunned enuie leaste I shoulde seeme to occupie the places of those that were neere him and with-all least they shoulde falsely iudge that Basil hauing
not mencioned Neither is there any circumstance that should encline to such opinion of them but rather to the cleane contrarie Caluine sayth out of this place we may gather that which we had in the 15. chapter that so often as any waightie businesse was to be treated vppon the Seniors were woont to come together that the consultation might bee the more orderly composed without the multitude We shall afterwarde see in their order that the people were admitted Howbeit after that the Seniors had had their Innermore Counsell Sith therefore these Seniors consultation with the Apostles was not onely about manners and discipline but about principall pointes of the substance of doctrine and withall that Caluine referreth vs to these Seniors or Elders in the counsell holden at Ierusalem Act. 15. where Caluine sayde before as he sayth here that all the Churche was not gathered sed eos qui doctrina iudicio pollebant qui ex ratione officij huius causae legitimi erant iudices but those that excelled in doctrine and iudgement and they that by reason of their office were the lawefull iudges of this cause what likelihoode is there that these Elders meddled not with teaching the doctrine which excelled in the doctrine and in iudgment and by their offices were the lawfull iudges in the decision of the controuersies of doctrine But since the oration that is made vnto Paule Act. 21. is by S. Luke set downe in the name of them all albeit some one among them spake it in their names and they were such as of whom Caluine sayth vpon these their wordes to Paule Thou seest brother how manie thousands c. Moreouer they exhort him that taking vpon him a solemne vowe he should purge himselfe c. There is no doubt but that zeale of the Lawe was faultie and verely the Elders doo sufficiently declare that they liked it not For although they do not openly condemne it neither yet complaine thereon more sharply neuertheles because they separate themselues from their affection secretly they confesse that they doo erre If it had bene a zeale according to knowledge it ought to haue begun from them But they striue not for the Lawe it selfe nor they pretend iust reuerence thereof nor they subscribe vnto them that were zealous of the same as they call them therefore they insinuate that they thinke otherwise that they like not the peoples superstition But this ouerthwarteth it that they say Paule was burdened with a false infamie Furthermore when they exact of him a satisfaction they seeme to nourish that zeale c. And againe Neither verely was the libertie of Paule vnknowen to the Elders when as therefore they knew the matter well onely this they wil that it should be witnessed to the vnskilfull and rude that Paule purposed nothing lesse than that hee should bring the Iewes to the contempt of the lawe Wherefore they looke not vpon the bare matter but knowing what was the peoples iudgement of Paule by reason of the malicious backbitings they desire to remedie it Although I knowe not whether they required this of Paul more importunatlie than was meet But heerevppon it appeareth how preposterous is the credulitie or light beleef of men in taking holde of slaunders and howe stiflie an ill opinion once rashlie conceiued cleaueth fast There is no doubte but that Iames and his colleagues did their indeauor to defende the fame of Paul And againe in the meane season wee see howe modestlie the Seniors behaued themselues in nourishing concorde while in good time they preuent the peoples offence excepte in that they beare peraduenture too much with their weaknesse in exacting a vowe of Paule But this moderation is to bee kept in the Church that the Pastors shoulde indeede excell in authoritie but they shoulde not rule proudelie nor despise the residue of the bodie For the distinction of their orders which is the bonde of peace ought not to bee the cause of discorde What can bee more cleere than this that these Elders which spake these things and tooke this authoritie in these matters vppon them were Pastors As Caluine in plaine wordes applyeth all theyr dooings vnto Pastors And yet this more appeareth in his obseruation of that which followeth on the 23. verse Doe this therefore that wee saie vnto thee wee haue foure men which haue made a vowe c. Although it may bee that these he meaneth the foure men wer as yet nouices that therfore their faith as yet were tender and scarse well framed whervpon the Doctors or teachers suffered them to performe the vow that by ignorance they had rashly vowed In these wordes the Elders that before he called Iames and his collegues and of their doings gathered the rule and authoritie of the Pastors he plainlie heere calleth Doctors and teachers And therefore what kinde of Elders these were vnder Iames and the Apostles at Hierusalem we neede seeke no further it is manifest they were not gouernours that medled not with teaching but with ouersight of doctrine and with correction of manners and discipline onelie for as they were teachers and heere taught though not so wel so their chiefest medling was with teaching And that their selues testifie in the conclusion of their Oration saying For as touching those of the Gentiles that haue beleeued â—e haue written decreeing that they should keepe no such thing c. If our Brethren replie that that decree went in the name not onelie of the Apostles and Elders but also of the brethren which in the verse before Act. 15.22 he calleth the whole Church and yet we cannot conclude hereon that therefore the whole Church were teachers Caluine referring vs to that which he noted on that decree saith on the 22. ver Act. 15. Not without the singular grace of God was that tempest ceased that the cause being well discussed all should descend into the consent of the true doctrine The modestie also of the common people is gathered herevpon that after they had permitted the iudgement vnto the Apostles to the residue of the Doctors or teachers then also the people subscribed vnto their decree The Apostles also on the other side gaue a shewe of their equity because they established nothing coÌ„cerning the common cause of all the godlie but the people beeing admitted thervnto For verilie of the pride of the Pastors this tyrannie hath sprong that those things which pertaine to the common state of the whole Church haue bene subiect the people being thrust out vnto the will that I might not saie vnto the lust of a few men But the Apostles and the Elders did prudentlie decree that Iudas and Silas shoulde bee sent to the end the matter might bee lesse suspected Concerning this complaint we haue alreadie aunswered and let them giue the people no more than the notice and approbation so that the debating and determining be referred to the authoritie of those that succéede the Apostles
Ambrose and the other allegations of Beza out of Cyprian and a number of other Fathers and histories for the search of these Elders Which not yet finding I haue returned to the Scripture to search what places anie other of our Bre namelie Beza Caluine and Danaeus which chieflie write vpon this matter haue alleaged And not yet finding anie sufficient proofe of theÌ„ till some other of our Brethren shall bring better proofe or proue these places better I am now come againe where we began to the 14. of the Acts verse 23. because our Bre. here will further yet againe reuiew the same And especiallie in the place before alleaged for election there is great reason to leade vs to thinke that the Elders for gouernment are as well vnderstood as the other for doctrine because it is written in the same place That after they had ordained them Elders in euerie congregation by election as hauing set the Churches in perfect order which coulde not bee except they had established discipline so well as doctrine they committed them to the Lord in whom they beleeued This great reason is nothing but our Brethrens ouer great presupposall that except there were such Elders ordained there were no perfecte order set nor discipline established in the churches Which great reason lieth all on the great and common fallation Peâ—itio principij reasoning on that as on a great and graunted principle which is a greate and principall question They might wel haue set the churches in perfect order haue established discipline in them without ordaining anie Consistorie or Segnorie of such Elders or gouernours as meddle not with teaching For what would it haue hurt the perfection of order establishment of discipline in the churches if all the Elders that they ordained had bene teachers to as Caluine sayth they were Albeit Saint Luke in that place mencioneth not of anie perfection of orders or of discipline established at all But onelie sayth the text in this 23. verse here mencioned And ordaining with the handes Elders vnto them Church by Church making praiers with fastings they commended them vnto the Lord on whome they beleeued Did Saint Paule in all the Churches where hee went preaching yea though some of them were famous Churches and in some of them he laie long as at Corinth set the churches in perfect order and established discipline in them as well as doctrine How then doth he write unto the Corinthians of so many things that as it plainlie appeareth by his reprouing teaching and ordering of them wer not before set in such order nor established No nor yet all things as concerning the perfection of order and establishment of discipline were contained in his Epistles afterwards written vnto them but that he saith he would â—et an order of other things at his comming to them 1. Cor. 11.34 which we expound not with the aduersaries of the Gospel for matter of doctrine but for order and discipline And therefore it is not so great a reason as shoulde leade our Brethren to thinke that Paule and Barnabas tarrying so small a while in euerie place that then they went vnto did set such perfect orders and establish discipline in those meaner churches But since our Br. here doe vrge this place no further than that there is great reason to leade vs so to thinke and we sée also some reason to leade vs to thinke the contrarie whether theers or ours bee greater yea whether theirs bee anie great or small and whether Caluine himselfe be not of force to ouer-rule this so slender a reason of theirs saying Not of some among them but of all of them I interprete Elders in this place to bee those to whome the office of teaching was inioyned Which interpretation if it be true then whether by anie reason they could be such Elders as were gouernours onelie and not teachers I referre to the readers yea to our Brethrens owne indifferent iudgement and proceede to their second point of moderating these Elders The second point for moderation of the Elders authoritie in such sort that their sentence may be the sentence of the Church is this that wheÌ„ the Consistorie hath trauailed in examining of causes pertayning to Ecclesiasticall discipline and agreed what iudgement ought to passe vppon the matters they propounde it to the whole multitude that it maye bee confirmed by their consent This second point draweth somewhat neerer to a moderation of the Elders authoritie than the former did But how agreeth this with the former moderation of them For before although they should be elected and chosen by the consent of the whole congregation yet the whole church was to repose such confidence in them that they coÌ„mit vnto them their authoritie not onely in hearing and examining but also in determining of all matters pertaining to discipline and gouernment in that congregation If therefore these Elders shall haue authoritie to doe all this how is it here sayd that when the consistorie hath trauailed in examining of causes pertaining to Ecclesiasticall discipline and agreed what iudgement ought to passe vpon the matters they propounde it to the whole multitude that it may be confirmed by their coÌ„sent If the whole multitude haue before hand committed vnto them their authoritie to determine all matters why shoulde they bee brought to the whole multitude backe againe to haue that confirmed that before was determined and that by their owne authoritie was committed vnto these Elders to determine And what authoritie haue they reserued and lefte vnto themselues herein to confirme by their consent after these committies haue determined the matter For what if the whole multitude shall dissent Haue they all or some or the greater part of them a negatiue voice to dash all that these Elders haue before determined And how is not this then a plaine Popular state when in all matters none excepted not onely pertaining to discipline but also to gouernment the chiefe last authoritie consisteth in the coÌ„firmatioÌ„ no not yet of the prince but of the whole multitude We feared before 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the dominion of a few persons in this Seniorie And therefore our Brethren to moderate reduce them ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the gouernment of the best men which our brethren call men of godlinesse and wisedome they haue now so moderated the matter that they haue brought all ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the popular regiment not onelie of the common people but of the whole multitude And all vnder pretence that the Bishops before did some things more than they should separated from other by themselues in the Ecclesiastical discipline And now they haue so excluded this separate gouernment of the Bishops that withall they haue cleane cut off the Monarchie and supreme gouernment of the Prince and all yea of these Seniors determination and all and giuen all matters pertaining to the discipline and gouernment of
the Lawe written or as we might call them Masters of the Rolles which were after called Scribes were instituted of Moses in the Wildernesse first by the authoritie of Iethro his Father in lawe and afterward by commaundement of God For when Moses the first yeere in the Wildernesse sate to heare causes hee was warned by Iethro his Father in lawe that he should spare that labour and appoint wise men skilfull and prudent to iudge in his steede and reserue to himselfe onelie the vnderstanding of matters that were of more importance He therfore appointed them the Princes of whome after shall be spoken Tribunes Centurions Gouernors of fiftie Gouernors of ten or as the Greeke setts them out Chiliarks Hecatontarks Pentecontarks Decadarks to bee introducers of the causes to the Iudges or preferred them to be Grammatoisagogeos the Chauncelors or the Primitories or the enterers in writing of the actions Exod. 18. And choosing valiant men out of all Israel he appointed them Princes of the people Tribunes and Centurions and Captaines ouer fiftie and Captaines ouer ten which should iudge the people at all times Wherefore after the 40. yeare rehearsing to the people the actes that he had done he alleadgeth in the first of Deuteronomie I said vnto you I am not able alone to sustaine your businesses and burden and brawlings giue ye out of your selues wise men and skilfull and whose conuersation is approued in your Tribes that I might place them to be Princes Then ye aunsâ—ered me It is a good thing that thou wilt doo And I tooke wise men and noble out of your Tribes and appointed them to be Princes Tribunes and Centurions and Rulers ouer fiftie and Rulers of tenne which should teach you all things And I commaunded them saying Heare yee them and iudge ye that which is righteous whether he be a citizen or bee bee a straunger let there be no difference of persons Ye shall as well heare the small as the great neither shal ye accept the person of anie whosoeuer because it is the iudgment of God But if anie thing shall seeme difficult vnto you referre that to me and I will heare it But the Graecians haue it more plaine and more apte to vnfolde the manner of these Iudgements And I appointed them to rule ouer you Chiliarkes or Rulers of thousands Hecatontarks or Rulers of hundreds Pentecontarks Quinquegenariens or Rulers of fiftie Deacharks or Rulers of tenne and Grammatoisagogists or the enterers in writing or inrollers of the pleas vnto your Iudges For in steede of that which the latine interpreter translateth which should teach you al thinges the greeke rehearseth it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the informers in writing vnto your Iudges the text it selfe is and Gouernors to your tribes Afterward the law of God came hereunto wherein concerning these iudges it was enacted chap. 16 in these wordes Thou shalt ordeine vnto thee Iudges and Maisters in all thy Cities which the Lorde God shall giue to thee according to the Tribes And they shall iudge the people with righteous iudgement neither shall they wrest the iudgement neither shall they acknowledge the person of anie neither shall they take giftes And in this place for Maisters the Greeke setteth out Grammatoisagogeos the informers in writing or of the Lawe written This Law Iosephus so rehearseth that he sheweth the Iudges were also chosen by lot Let those also which by lotte haue come foorth to iudge be in chiefest honor in the cities let no reproches be spoken in their presence Let the iudges haue the right of pronouncing that which they thinke except that anie shall shew that they haue receiued rewards to iudge or shall alleadge anie other cause of wrong iudgement But as Moses ordained them so afterward king Iosophat confirmed them in the kingdome of Iuda as is declared in the 19. Chap. of the second booke of Chronicles Hee ordained Iudges of the lande in all the dedefenced Cities throughout all places And commaunding the Iudges hee sayde Take heede what yee doo for yee exercise not the iudgement of man but of the Lorde And whatsoeuer you shall iudge shall redound vppon your selues Let the feare of the Lorde bee with you and doo all thinges with diligence VVith our Lord GOD there is no iniquitie nor accepting of persons not desire of rewards After this the iudgements beeing disturbed in the lande of Babylon the Iewes when they returned into their Countrie as they did other matters so they restored these Which thing that it shoulde come to passe Esaie Chap. had forewarned when as hee vttered these speeches of God And I will restore thy Iudges as they were before And after that the king Artaxerxes commaunded that it should be so done For so he wrote in the sixt of Esdras Ordeine thou Iudges and Scribes that they might iudge all the people For he called them Scribes whome wee haue named Grammatoisagogeos the informers of the writings or written Lawe Wherevpon that they were restored the Psalmist reioyced as saith Saint Athanasius which when the citie of Ierusalem was reedified and the iudgementes restored euen as it was foretolde of the Lorde breaking foorth for ioy he song in the Psalme 121. I was gladde in those things that were spoken to me wee will goe into the house of the Lorde our feete standing in thy Courts O Hierusalem Ierusalem which is built as a Citie whose participation is in it selfe For thether the Tribes ascended The Tribes of the Lorde the testimonie of Israel to confesse the name of the Lorde because they set the seates there in iudgement or into iudgement as the Greeke hath it the seates vppon the house of Dauid And so afterwarde euen vntill the laste times of the Iewes But these Iudges seeme to haue bene chosen out of the bodie of the Senators of euerie citie Euen as from the first times also among the Romanes the iudgements were executed of the Senators The Lawe it selfe in many places teacheth it Deut. 19. If the smiter shall flie into one of the foresayde Cities the Senate of that Citie shall sende and take him out of the place of refuge And in 21. VVhen a corps is founde and the slaier shall not be knowen the Senate of the Citie shall go out and measure from that place c. Whervppon Ruth 4. â—ooz taking ten men of the Seniors of the Citie of Bethleem sayd vnto them Sit yee heere and be witnesses The people that was in the gate and the Seniors answered we are witnesses and before them hee tooke the possession of Elimelech Moreouer Philo in lib. de Iudice gathereth out of the Law four conditions of good Iudges c. Furthermore that the Iudgements were exercised in the gate of the Cities that was called the gate of Iudgement the Lawe Deuteronomi 21. declareth c. and 25. and also Iosue 8. c. and Ruth 4. c. Prouerbes 22. and 31. and Psalme 126. c. These Iudgements were made
like to this for the administration of gouernment and to haue the hearing of all difficult waighty matters amoÌ„g vs as the Sanedrin had among the Iewes if this be as our Brethren in the title of this their Learned Discourse do say a breefe plain declaration of the desires of al those faithful Ministers that haue do seeke for the discipline reformation of the Church of England If our Br. aske to mary this Abisag her Maiesty then in-déedâ— may quickly say as Solomon did Let them aske the kindom too For what is here left in temporal politike and worldly matters or in the gouernment and state of the kingdome wherein these Seniors will not haue a stroke yea and a negatiue voice and that in euery parish which is cleane different froÌ„ the Sanhedrin For both their lesse kind of Sanedrin either greater as they afterward deuided it was only in one place for all the realm As first at Sylo and then at Ierusalem the head citie vntill these last alterations came Where as our Br. would haue the like if not the same to be erected in euery congregation which is the playne ouerthrowe of a kingdom to make euery congregatioÌ„ a kingdoÌ„ in it self For if it be not such a Senate as was their Sanedrin then is it not the same nor like the same that Christ they say did heere allude vnto And if it be not then do they plainly delude vs and wrest Christes wordes in gathering such allusions and building on them and inforcing on vs this their Seniory by force hereof And say that here Christe also translated the same into his church in the newe Testament And yet when all is done they must néeds confesse that it is cleane different For in both these consistories of the Sanedrin the greater of the 70. and the lesse of the 23. They were all eyther Preestes or Doctors of the Lawe and teachers the King and the Princes or noble peeres onlie excepted So that except they will be Kings Princes or noble Peeres all these Seniors must not bee gouernors not teaching but Interpreters Doctors teachers of the Law of God or else they be neither the same nor the like nor fiâ—te at all to be any Seniors in this Senate And whereas Beza saith in his Christian Confession cap. 5. artic 32. but we must know that this Iurisdiction hee speaketh of these Seniors doth not appertaine to earthly and transistory matters and is altogether different from the ciuile as witnesseth Christe and after Christe Paul although eyther of them particularly comprehendeth all the faithfull without exception for al are also thral to â—he ciuil Magistrate whose power also in respect is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an edifying or building power so farre forth as it ought to procure peace 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 good order or discipline especially inthose things that respect the first table And on the other side ther is none which should not be subiect to the word of God so of coÌ„sequeÌ„ce vnto the eccl discipline Howbeit I confesse the apostle willeth that for the cause of auoiding offence Christians should iudge their coÌ„trouersies priuatly without the ciuil magistrate But it appeareth sufficiently that Paul which followed the steps of Christ and of all the saintes would not therefore withdraw any thing from the ciuil iurisdiction nor confound those things that the Lord hath distinguished but only haue consideration of the time in the which it could not be that the faythfull should contend before infidel Iudges but that they should bee thrall to diuerse slaunders For the which cause hee admonisheth the Corinehians that all such kinde of controuersies should rather be eyther once taken away or taken vp by domesticall debating of them This admonition therefore of Paule doth nothing fauour the furious and giddi-brayned Anabaptistes which leaue no place to the Ciuill Magistrate in a Christian Church To returne therefore to the matter there is a certaine ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction but vtterly distinguished from the ciuill Thus writeth Beza of the Iurisdiction of these Seniors to be mere Ecclesiasticall and cleane different from the ciuill Iurisdiction Yea Danaeus also concludeth as is foresaide in the 10. chapter saying For although the Presbytery or Synedrion of the Iewes which was the same Act. 22. verse 5. 30. in Math. 5. ver 22. seemeth to aunswere to our presbytery iudged often of certaine causes notwithstanding our Presbyteries doe not iudge and thereupon are different from those of the Iewes Because they had partly politicall partly Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction both together as appeareth Esd. 10 verse v. But our presbyteries haue only Ecclesiasticall it pertaineth indeede to their office and function to reclaim if they can to peace and concorde the faithfâ—â—â—â—leading or about to plead Verily they ought to exhort them to mâ—tuall charity Cor. 6. verse 1. Mat. 5.25 But to sit Iudges in their pleaes they ought not for this is the office of the ciuill magistrate Yea neither the whole presbytery neither any part of the presbytery ought so much as to be chosen arbytrators but onely as priuate men if any of the presbytery be taken to be arbytrators If this be true than is all this deuise of translating the Sanedrin of the Iewes into the newe testament and Church of Christe or of willing the like thereof to be established in his Church for administration of gouernment quite ouerthrown For what the Iewes eldership was we haue seene at large already And yet there were then also Ciuill Magistrates aswell as now And therfore if Christ had translated their Sanedrin vnto vs ours might haue like authority as theirs had notwithstanding our ciuill Magistrates But besides this in generall that Danaeus here confesseth that the presbyteries of the Iewes Iudged often in some causes and mixed together the temporall and Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction which our brethren mislike in the Bishops and ministers Chytraeus also vpon the 17. of Deut. Tit. de Iudiciis doth confirme the moste of that which we haue shewed at large out of Bertram Sigonius for the Iewes Iudgements and Sanhedrin saying Three kindes of iudgements are written to haue beene distinguished among the Iewes vnto whome it is agreeable that Christ alludeth Math 5 in the declaration of the ten commaundements setting down the degrees and differences of sinnes repugnant to the Lawe thou shalt not kill And that he woulde declare the same out of the forme of the ciuill iudgements accustomed to the people Heer 's he 〈…〉 of Christes more proper alluding to the Iewes orders in thâ—se thinges But doth he gather thereupon that the same ciuile iudgements were either translated or the like to them established amongst vs The first was Triumuirall ouer the which were Gouernors in euerie Citie three men In the which money matters and the lighter trespasses of bearings of priuaâ—e iniuâ—ies of theâ—â— c. wer decided They suppose that Christe signified that
theÌ„selues it is in this their humor for this Presbyterie What is héere for so excellent and godly learned men to haue alledged this tyrannical Decree or rather this very doctrine of Diuels in this superstitious Council against the law of God against the lawfulnesse of Bishops Elders and Deacons mariage against the verie Antiquitie of the Church which they pretend â—ind yet what is there in this Decree to inferre that this power and Censure of excommunication apperteineth onelie and alwaies to a Presbyterie ioyned with the Bishops But since Danaeus hath alledged this CouÌ„cill let vs sée how this CouÌ„cill directlie euen in this matter of excommunication maketh cleane against him For in the 8. chap. following it is sayd Alipius the B. of the Church of Tagasta the Legate of the Prouince of Numidia did say Neither must that be praetermitted that if perhaps anie Priest or Elder which is corrected or excommunicated of his B. being puffed vp with swelling or pride shall thinke that Sacrifices are separatelie to be offred vnto God or shall beleeue that anie other altare should be erected contrarie to the eccl faith and discipline let him not go vnpunished Valentinus of the first seate of the Prouince of Numidia said The thinges that our brother Alipius hath prosecuted are necessarilie agreeable to the eccl discipline and faith Declare ye therfore what thereupon seemeth good vnto your louingnesse Whether if anie Priest or Elder shall make a scisme against his B he should be accursed It was said of all the Bishops If anie Priest or Elder shall be excommunicated or corrected of his Prelate he ought to complaine to the Bishops adioyning that his cause may be heard of them and by them he may be reconciled to his B. Here both we sée what these Presbyters Priests or Elders were to wit such as celebrated the L. supper also that vpon iust occasion the B. himselfe might excom eueÌ„ these Priests or Elders And if we may gather an argument of absoluing or recoÌ„ciling to the Church which is equiualent to excoÌ„municating we might haue séene before in the 4. chap. that not onlie a Bishop by himselfe but also anie particular Priest or Elder in some cases might doo it Aurelius the B. that propâ—â—ded the decrée against Bishops Priests Deacons wiues which Danaeus citeth said If any man shal be in danger shal desire to be reconciled to Gods altars if the B. shal be absent the Priest or Elder ought to take couÌ„sell of the B. so at his coÌ„mandemeÌ„t to recoÌ„cile the partie that is in danger If the Priest or Elder can absolue the repeÌ„tant partie at the coÌ„mandement of the B. being absent is it not likelie the B. could doo it himselfe being present And if the B. or anie one Priest could thus absolue coulde neither Priest nor B. by theÌ„selues not haue excoÌ„municated the said partie being a manifest notorious offeÌ„der So that by examining this couÌ„cil further it maketh more against Danaeus in this point thaÌ„ for him The like Decrée vnto this for a Priests absoluing restoring a penitent in the absence of the B. is also in the 3. CouÌ„cil of Carth. cap. 32. These CouÌ„cils being about the time of Siritius which Siritius was in the time of Ambrose as Danaeus coÌ„fesseth Ambrose himself without any Presbyterie ioyned with him excoÌ„municating the Emperor Theodosius how is it not apparant that in those daies a B. by himself might excoÌ„municate his excoÌ„municatioÌ„ holdeÌ„ for good lawful But Danaeus to coÌ„firme it better that a B. might not excom by himself addeth the 4. Council of Carth. chap. 22. 23. where it is said that a B. shal not ordeine Clearks without the Council of his Clerkes so that he seeke the assent the sufferance and the testimonie of the Citizens Againe that the Bishop heare the cause of none without the presence of his Clerkes otherwise the Bishoppes sentence shal be frustrate except it bee confirmed by the presence of his Clerkes What is héere that the Bishop may not by himselfe excommunicate The former chap. is onlie of ordeining Clearks yet it doth not take the power of ordeining from them but it manifestlie giueth the power thereof vnto him Though in ordeining a Priest the Council say that all the Priests present should lay their hands also on the head of him that is ordeined But the B. hand onelie on a Deacon c. chap. 3. 4. c. As for this Decrée chap. 22. is but of the Clearkes counsel to the B. And though they say also hee should seeke the assent sufferance testimonie of the Citizens yet in the action of ordeining they haue no power As for the 23. cha requireth onelie the presence of the Bishops Clerkes in the processe of his iudiciall sentences But this proueth not that they ioyne with him in the authoritie of the Iudiciall proceeding and giuing the sentence There is no Iudge can iudiciallie heare and determine anie causes temporal but he must haue his Clearkes and Registers about him to witnesse and recorde the same but neither their presence nor yet their inrolling of the acts giueth them anie authoritie in the Iudgement He is Dominus Iudex for all their presence And that doth the 28. declare saying The vniust condemnation of the bishops is voyde therefore to be retracted of a Synode But what is this to excommunication it is said euen in the next Decrée to that Danaeus héere citeth chap. 24. that the sacerdotall priest making â— speech or preaching in the Church he that shall depart out of the audience shal be excommunicated Might neither the priest nor the Bishop if they saw anie person to vse this dooing obstinatelie mainteine the same pronounce this sentence of excoÌ„munication on him But that the Bishop might so doo in this and in other greeuous crimes we may well conclude by the 55. chap. of that Council that a Bishop shal excommunicate those that are the accusers of their Brethren if they shall amend their fault he may receaue them to the Communion not to the Clergie Héere â—o is the excommunication and absolution made by the Bishop without anie ioyned with him in these actions were they present at the dooings neuer so much And that this was allowable by the ancient custome of the Church the Councill of Eliberis holden almost an 100. yeres before anie of these CouÌ„cels approoueth the excommunicating made by a Bishop himselfe saying chap. 53. It pleased them all that euerie one should receiue the CoÌ„munion of that Bishop of whom being in anie fault hee was Abstentus that is put backe separated or excommunicated But if so be anie Bishop shall presume to admit him he being not yet willing or consenting of whom he was depriued of the communion let him knowe that he shall aunswere these causes among the Brethren with the danger of his estate Concerning Cyprians Epistles we haue perused them
so farre as this example warranteth doe in like manner admit the people to vnderstande our proceeding and decrees in the Synode or Councell whome also it becommeth not to disobey except they finde the decrees to be against the worde of God but to submitte them-selues in all modesty vnto the authority of the decrees that thâ— Pastors for so againe he calleth the Elders whome before he called Doctors or teachers shall haue determined about any controuersies so farre as concerneth the common cause of all the Godly But what do our Brethren gather heereupon By which Scripture say they wee learne that the synode consisteth principallie of Pastors Elders teachers and men of wisedome iudgement and grauitie as it were of necessity regents They are nowe come to the point whereof they sayde before that they had to inquire of what persons a synode doth consist And heere they make it to consist of fowre kindes of persons Pastors Elders Teachers and men of VVisedome Iudgement and grauitie By Pastors we haue seene already what they meane and also by Teachers But what meane they heere by these Elderâ— â—hat are placed after Pastors and before teachers Whether the Elders not teaching whome they called Gouernors are placed in he thirde place of the Tetrarchie that they tell not But if they meane them by the name of Elders whereas Caluine by Elders vnderstandeth Pastors and teachers then are they very pregnaunt Schollers that by this Scripture can learne that which this scripture euen by Caluines teaching doth not teache them But where are our Deacons heere become what are they shrunke in the wetting or are they excluded out of the Synode which before made vp the full tetrarchie or are they included in this last indefinite sort men of wisedome Iudgement and grauitie But these are not named as any officers at all but generally they are called men and therefore more likely that by this name of men they meane the people or the whole multitude which they sayde before was not excluded But though these men haue no speciall office yet are they here adorned with three excellent qualities Wisedome Iudgement and grauity wherein commonly the common people of the whole multitude doth not excell except some rare and odde persons among them namely in the diuerse cases and controuersies of doctrine or be-it but in these controuersies of Ecclesiasticall Regiment and such like Yea woulde to God the Pastors Elders and Teachers not onely such as are for the most part but also besides that I wishe vnto my selfe woâ—ld God that euen such as these our Brethren that haue compiled this Learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall Gouerment were so well furnished in these three pointes as they and we all shoulde be For I hope when they say thus in generall and euen of wisedome Iudgement and grauitie that they do not so meane the people that they seperate these three vertues from the Pastors and teachers But howe now shall the synode consist of all these foure sortes of persons whether they exclude Deacons or include them forsooth say they the Synode shall consist of these as it were of necessary regentes What and shall all these foure sortes be Regents and necessary regents the whole multitude people and all And that in the authoritie of determining the diuerse cases of the Churches regiment and the diuerse controuersies of religion For such matters were handled in the assembly holden at Ierusalem Actes 15. But both Caluine and Beza haue debarred them of this yea our Brethren when it commeth to the pinch eate this worde againe and conclude cleane contrarie saying For although the whole multitude came together yet the apostles Elders came together to inquire and consider of the matter in controuersie A ha Brethren go to then they came not together all but heere are two kindes ends of their comming together The apostles and Elders came together to inquire and consider of the matter in controuersie What and no further Yes and to giue the determination of the same Yea forsooth this is indeed a Councel-like and authenticall comming together whereupon a Synode doth consist But wherefore then came the multitude together The multitude heard and for their better instruction and modestie submitted their consent vnto the determination of the Apostles and Elders And was this then all that the multitude had to doe heerein what is this to the authority of determining nay it reacheth not heere so far by this their limitaiion as to the authoritie of inquiring or considering of the controuersies But since it is sayde before that with the Synode the Pastor hath authoritie to determine concerning regiment of the Church and the people or multitude haue nothing to doe heerein being not Pastors Elders nor teachers it plainly followeth that the people or multitude are none of those persons of whome a Synode doth consist Which is the thing that our Brethren here woulde proue and yet in discussing the matter cleane confute it selfe But they say all mens reasons are heard And good reason too say I that all their reasons shoulde be hearde that spake and reasoned But who were they any that came not to determine nor yet to consider nor so much as to inquire of the matter but onely to heare to submit their consent is their necessarie regencie come downe to this submission Well say they there was great disputation And who say I disputed Caluine on these wordes and when there was great disputation aunswereth though there were choyse made of graue men and such as were teachers of the Church yet could they not by and by agree But say they the authority of Gods worde preuayled And we graunt so it ought alwayes to do Good order say they was obserued So woulde it not I feare if the orders that our Brethren woulde haue were in practise So say they after the matter was throughly discussed by the Godly arguments alleaged by Peter and Barnabas and Paule the controuersie was concluded by the sentence of Iames. And were any of these discussers of the matter such Elders as withall were not teachers but how was this done that they conclude héere the controuersie was concluded by the sentence of Iames They said before with the Synode the Pastor hath authoritie to determine For although it be good reason that the Pastor should not determine without the Synode yet by their proouing héereof by this example Iames is made the Pastor in this Couâ—sell and so by their owne consequence that a Pastor and a Byshop are all oâ—e Iames is also made the Bishop and the controuersie being concluded after all their discussing by his sentence the sentence being the finall resolute and iudiciall determination he hath authoritie therein aboue them all and then of consequence though the Synode ioyne with him in the consent of the matter yet ioyneth it not with him in the authoritie of determining or iudiciall
with the weake And this likewise I graunt that no small consideration is to be had in the Synodes determination of bearing with the weake Howbeit we must vnderstande wherein and in what manner they be weake and how farre foorth they are to be borne withall For otherwise they may still pretende weakenesse to couer wilfulnesse May not the Synode determine that it is lawefull to eate so much as an egge on Fryday because some will take offencâ— and pretende weakenesse But it is a good hearing that our Brethren are become so carefull to haue offences auoyded and the weake borne withall Would God they would not giue so great offence as herein they doe both to â—he weake and strong with their vnnecessarie striuing for ceremoniall matters against those thinges which our lawfull synodes with the corroboration of the Prince and of the whole Realme haue alreadie determined and concluded Wherein our Brethren do not only offend the synode the realme the Prince in reiecting their lawfull authorities herein but euen for the weake the speciall consideration of whom they here pretende they haue beene through these contentions the greatest occasion that many which were before but weake amongest vs haue now not doubted any more of our ceremonies but of our faith and doctrine Yea where many were more than halfe wonne and metely well come on they are nowe cleane lost and vtterly reuolted from vs when they sée that we will not stande to the determination no not of our owne Churches synodes nor to the authoritie and decrées of our owne Prince Is this our Brethrens consideration of auoyding offences and of bearing with the infirmitie of the weake As for consideration of order and comelinesse and aedification it is neither orderly nor comely in my opinion for any priuate particular Ministers to controll and preindicate the determination of a whole godlie Synode such as I hope ours are that hath alreadie determined and concluded what is order comelines aedification in these things Paphnutius in-deede did gainsay in Priestes mariages and preuayled against all or the moste part of the famous Nicene Councell But that was done in the Councell and in the debating of the matter before any decrée determined and concluded And also though they had neuer so fully determined and concluded it with all the authoritie that they had since it was flat against the worde of God and an error in Doctrine he might and ought to haue spoken against it In which case not onely we but the Papistes them-selues as Gerson Panormitane and others do graunt that we must more beleeue one man neuer so simple yea a lay man more than the Pope or than a generall councell where hee brings the manifest Scripture against them If our Br. can do so against vs and not wrest the Scripture wee yeelde presently But in those ceremoniall matters that are neither of fayth and Doctrine nor are this way or that way commaunded in the Scripture but left to the Churche of Christe to vse with these three cautions of order and comelinesse and aedification when a godly Synode hath alreadie debated determined and concluded what vse of them tendeth best to these three ends and wherein the state of that Church may be best ordered adorned and edified it is not then and in â—hose matters sitting with the duetie of anie such lay or ecclesiasticall persons to controll that conclusion of the Synode If our Brethren sayde so late before on the other side of the lease that it were an absurd thing for our prolocutor in our conuocation to take vpon him to be a controller of the whol Synode How much more is it an absurde thing out of the Synode and after the Synode for a meaner person than our Prolocâ—tor to take vpon him not only to be a controller but a defacer and oppugner of the whole Synode and a canceller of all their authoritie and determination How much better shall it be for our Br. to call to their remembrance their own conclusion where before they speake also of ceremonies page 76. saying there But to conclude it is the duety of euerie true pastor to obserue those thinges that are concluded by the lawfull authority of the Church concerning ceremoniall matters for order and comelinesse sake and for aedification and not to controll publike order by his priuate iudgement except vpon great and waighty causes Although in deede while they be but such ceremoniall matters and they are concluded as they say by the lawfull authority of the Church and if lawfull then haue they not gone beyond their bounds there can no causes bee so great and waighty that shoulde make any true pastor to set vp him-self against this lawfull authoritie of the Churcâ— For if hee doe hee doth it vnlawfully and not like a true Pastor When the assembly or Synode of the Apostles and Elders at Ierusalem which our Brethren héere alleage for an example did commaunde for a time abstinencie from meate offered to Idols otherwise lawful in it selfe for offences sake and for auoyding of all pollution and Idolatrie which the Euangelist noteth Actes 6. Luke 15. ver 20.29 Had it then beene lawfull for any particular Minister or Ministers to haue reiected the authoritie of this decree or to haue kept it and broken it at his or their pleasure and if this bee an example to followe though not to compare in like authoritie with this moste holy assembly and decree of the holy ghoste but as all good Synodes may take example from hence Now then is it now lawfull for any priuate ministers to reiect the authoritie of a lawfull Synode and the caeremonies rytes and orders therein decreed by the Princes and the realms authoritie alreadie established They say the Apostles and Elders commaundement was but for a time But coulde their authoritie haue reached to the forbidding that meate for any time which was otherwise lawfull in it selfe during all the time of the Christian libertie and can the authoritie of no Synode nowe restrayne our Br. for any time to forbeare that which otherwise is lawfull in it selfe but that they will needes vse still their libertie in caeremoniall matters or will they be the prescribers of the time for their continuaunce But they say that decree was made for offences sake and for auoyding of all pollution of Idolatrie So it was I graunt But that pollution of Idolatrie was not in the meate it selfe nor the offence so much in the strong as in the weake And yet the strong obeyed this decree onely to auoyde the weakes offence And to this end that the strong in fayth should not abuse their libertie by offending the consciences of the weake Saint Paule hath a notable treatise at large thereof 1. Cor. 10. Admitte therefore that any of those caeremonies being in them-selues otherwise lawfull because they haue beene offensiuelie abused and Idolatrouslie polluted yet the
these thinges before The Synode preaching with more eloquence and knoweledge too than many of these our Learned Discourses and yet bee no Preachers of the same vnto all others But what is their reason that they imagine none is able to knowe these thinges but teachers and Preachers of the same vnto all all others For say they it is absurde that they shoulde bee taught by such in these small thinges as ought to learne the trueth of them in all matters To an humble minded man and glad to learne this is no absurditie A godly and learned Preacher may eyther bee as ignoraunt or not so skilfull expert or prouident in some thinges yea nowe and then in some of these small things as some other may be that are no Preachers And if controuersies of them be mooued in the Synode consisting of Pastors it is a signe that all the Preachers haue not such knowledge of them but that they also may be to seeke and learne Yea the smaller things they be the Preachers may perhaps haue lesse imployde themselues in the study or search of of such smal thinges or not remember themselues so well as an other lesse learned which is no preacher may And a lowly spirit will not disdaine to learne great matters of his inferior in learning though he be no Preacher Moses learned of Iethro how to dispose his iudgemeÌ„ts more orderlie both in small matters and in great Neither is there indeede if the Preacher set aside all haughtie conceits of his owne singular doings and deuises any absurditie at all or shame herein but that it may beseeme him wel inough and he were better then he is sometimes to take notice and to bee taught of some godly wise learned and experient men that are no Preachers yea and of some women too now and then not only in some such small things but also in matters of great importance as Iudith taught the Elders and Pastors of Bethulia Although I graunt they againe ought to learn of the Preachers the trueth of Gods word in all matters Neither in these diuers kindes of teaching is any absurditie so long as their manner of teaching is not opposite nor that these laâ— persons be take vpon them as an ordinarie office nor do it of arrogancie and controulment nor do it as publike teachers preachers vnto the publike preachers and teachers of them nor do it to defaceand blemish the estimation or authoritie of their teachers and preachers nor doe it in all things but in these thinges Which heere their selues confesse are but small thinges being done in this order they ought to take no scorne to be reueuerently remembred or to be taught of them were it neuer so true that they which are no teachers and preachers ought to learn the trueth of them that are teachers and preachers in all matters which notwithstanding thus again generallie to auouch is a great ouer ouershot For there are many and those good matters besides religion and Eccl. matters and there is also a truth of them and yet men are not bound to learn the truth of them onely at the mouth of the preacher no nor the preacher is bound to know them or can or if he could ought to teach them And therefore this again is too largely spoken for all matters and seemeth to proceede of too great a reach and too high a liking of them-selues and too much incroching vpon others But what now is their conclusion hereupon This authoritie therefore cannot bee graunted vnto anie ciuill Christian Magistrate that without consent of the Learned Pastors and Elders yea against their consent of whome as in some respect hee is a feeling member hee may lawfully make caeremoniall Constitutions whereby the Church must bee gouerned in meere Ecclesiasticall matters Is there no meane but the drift of this conclusion must needes hee directed against the Ciuill Christian Magistrate howe chaunce our Brethren did not looke a litle neerer among them-selues and then they shoulde haue séene howe they had throughly payde and cleane ouerthrowne their Gouernours that are not teaching Elders whome they make to bee a greate part of the Synode in examining and determining Ecclesiasticall causes and Ecclesiasticall regiment and that the pastors can doe nothing without them But when this question commeth blustring in Who shoulde bee able to knowe what order comelinesse and aedification requireth according to Gods worde but they that bee teachers and Preachers of the same vnto all others Dare these Seniors nowe peepe out their heades and say like Gouernours indéede who shoulde we shoulde You what are you we wit ye well we are the Gouernours of all the Ecclesiasticall Discipline and regimeÌ„t Tush tush are ye teachers preachers of the same vnto al others No indeede that wee be not wee can not preach nor teach but wee can rule the matter with you that be teachers and Preachers No no go seeke your rule and Gouernment in other matters If yee bee no Teachers and preachers ye meddle not heere No wit yee well againe yeâ— are not able and much lesse worthie so much as to know what order comelinesse aedification requireth according to Gods worde and so least of all to examine decide and determine the same What ought not you though yee bee Seniors and gouernours to learne of vâ— that are your teachers and preachers wee tell you plainly and roundly at a worde It is absurde that they that are teachers and preachers shoulde be taught by such in these small thinges and it were much more absurde in greater thinges as ought to heare and learne the trueth of them in all matters Loe Howe these bigge and loftie wordes haue vtterlie blanked and giuen checke mate to these our gouerning Elders that we not teachers and preachers But whust wee pray you no more of this for we meant not this against our gouerning Elders though they be neither Preachers nor teachers but wee direct it altogether against the Ciuill Christian Magistrate Yea forsooth my learned Brethren macte virtuâ—e now ye shewe your selues indeede Yerke at the ciuill Christian Magistrate and euer so far as ye may do it with safetie spare not but still come in with one byous â—ling or another at the prince For this is plauâ—â—ble to the people as thogh ye were no accepters of persons in daring to speake almost any thing against the ciuill Christian Magistrate And doth your teaching and preaching tend to this that for feare the ciuill Christian Magistrate shoulde teach you though hee preach not to you another lesson you woulde haue it thoughâ— absurde that they shoulde teach you that shoulde be taught by you as heere you say in all matters yea that they are not able to know what order comelinesse and ediffcation requireth according to Gods worde except they them-selues were teachers and preachers I looked all this while when yet now at the length our Br. would begin to enter in
not to prescribe vnto them all alike some ceremoniall constitutions neyther was the difference of their strengths or weakenesse in their conuersion to Christ any breach or let to the vniformitie of their obseruing the same But by this reason of our brethren there could be no vniformitie of ceremonies not only then with them or now with vs in all places of the Church and land of England but in no place in all the whole world for where is the whole land or church wholy conuerted to Christ if they say that by these words not wholy conuerted they meane not all nor the greatest part but that some be not conuerted to Christ then they confute their owne reason in that the weakenesse of the lesser part ought to be no preiudice to the making of vniforme ceremonies vnto the greatest part for the law considereth rather the vniuersall multitude than euery particular party and so confessing that our land God be praysed for it is for the greatest part conuerted though not wholy conuerted in respect of euery person yet as the greatest part is commonly called by the name of the whole it may be well said also to be wholy conuerted But what meane they hereby that our land is not yet wholy coÌ„uerted to Christ they haue coÌ„fessed in their preface vnto this learned discourse that for the substaÌ„ce of religion it is now publikely mainteined for our true holy faith If any be not yet coÌ„uerted vnto the whole truth thereof how doth not this argumeÌ„t make the more for vniformity in these ceremoniall constit were it the easlier to win theÌ„ if by any meanes they may be woon by kéeping an vnforme order in those ceremoniall constitutions that are neyther ill of themselues and are but ordeyned to these good ends that order and comelinesse be reteyned shall we rather winne and conuert them to Christ both by reiecting all vniformitie in those ceremoniall constitutions that both they and we agrée vpon to be good and lawfull and also by reiecting all vniformitie in any other that may be deuised Yea by this their rule we should kéepe no vniformitie in any of those ceremoniall constitutions that they their selues set foorth vnto vs or is it lawfull for them to presse their Ceremonies vpon vs to be obserued with vniformitie and is it not more lawfull for vs hauing the law with vs to do the like to them so long as we vrge none nor otherwise than seruing to order and to comelinesse if ours séeme not so to them no more do theirs séeme so to vs and we hope and thanke God that we are also euen the greatest part and therefore may be called the whole that are we trust wholy conuerted to Christ wholie I meane for substance of Religion though in measure of faith and conuersation of life there is none of vs all nor yet of our Brethren so wholy conuerted but that the best of vs all come short and oftentimes diuert from Christ and must still be fayne to cry to Christ Conuerte me domine conuertar Conuert me Lord and I shall be wholy conuerted But will vniformitie in those Ceremonies that are giuen to helpe and strengthen our weakenesse hinder our Conuersion vnto Christ yea rather how will they not greatly further it But now if we be not so wholy conuerted to Christ as we ought to be although I confesse negligence may be some part too great a part the cause thereof yet I feare me our Brethrens too double diligence in disturbing the concord of the Preachers and euen in this reiecting of vniformity in these ceremoniall constitutions giuing liberty not only to euery Synode of themselues but also to theÌ„selues in these their discourses without any Synode and without yea against the authority of the ciuill christian Magistrate and much more without yea against the whole state of the Church in this our laÌ„d yea giuing liberty to euery particular church and withall by these their reasons to euery priuate person according as he or she is weake or strong to admit or reiect all vniformitie to alter and innouate as they fancy all such Lawes and constitutions of ceremoniall rites orders as are by a lawfull godly Synode of the Church decréed by the authority of the ciuill christian magistrate confirmed established proclaimed to be vniuersally among vs vniformely obserued These sayings doings of our Brethren their selues haue bin if not the chiefest yet not the least cause that not onely our land is not so wholy conuerted to Christ as it might otherwise haue béene but that so many are wholy auerted froÌ„ Christ and become peruerted renegates apostataes vnto Antichrist that before these sturres betwéen our brethren vs began were very wel coÌ„ming on by little little so far as man can iudge or hope by outwarde signes might haue béene throughly wonne and wholly conuerted to Christ or might yet in the vnsearchable riches of gods mercies be reclaimed and reconuerted But firmum flat fundamentum Deus nouit qui sunt sui If they be none of Gods elected exiâ—runt e nobis non fuerunt ex nobis they went from among vs they were none of vs. But nowe to our Brethrens conclusion that they gather on these premisses Therfore it were meete that the Ouerseers and Elders of the Church shoulde come together to consider of this matter what orders were most meete for diuerse places to bring them to the obedience of Christ what for the furtherance of them that are newly come and what for the continuance and encrease of them that are verie well come on Here still the soueraigne Prince or ciuill Christian Magistrate is eyther cleane forgotten or of purpose reiected as hauing no stroake at all in these matters except they wil include the Prince in one of these termes the Ouerseers and Elders of the Church But they haue before restrayned those titles to the Pastors and to those Elders whoÌ„ they call the Gouernors and distinguishing the Prince from them they call him the ciuill Christian Magistrate But now what orders when they come together to consider of this matter can these Ouer-seers and Elders deuise that shal be most meete for diuerse places if they coÌ„sider not on this withall that if not in al places yet at the least in all those diuerse places they should be vniformely kept For to kéepe diuersitie or to kéepe them diuersely in those diuerse places what is it else than to be bounde in no places to no orders at all Will they not yet at least wise haue those orders that shal be deuised for the furderance of them that are newly come to be vniformely kept among all them that be such persons in all or diuerse places And likewise those orders that should be deuised for the continuance and encrease of them that are verie well come on to be kept also
Who sayth hereon Lib. 4. Instit. cap. 10. sect 29. in these wordes Of the former kind that is to say of those ceremoniall constitutions that are for comelines Paule hath examples as that no prophane banquetes be mixed together with the holy supper of the Lord. That women except they couer their heads come not forth into a publike place and many other thinges are had in 〈◊〉 vse That wee pray kneeling and bare headed that wee administer the Sacramentes of the Lorde not vncleanely but with some dignitie that in burying the dead wee giue thereto a certaine honestie and such other thinges as pertayne thereto In the other kinde that is to say for order there are houres designed to the publike prayers to the sermons and to the mysticall actions In the sermons themselues there is quiet and silence and places appoynted thereunto the tunes or singing together of the hymnes and daies prefixed for celebrating of the L. supper that which Paule forbiddeth that women teach not in the Church and if there be any such like thinges But chiefely those that conserue discipline as the Catechizing the Eccl. Censures excommunication fastes the thinges that may be referred to that cataloge Thus may we referre all the Eccl. constitutions which we receaue for good and wholesome vnto two heads for the one sort of them haue respect to rites and ceremonies the other to discipline and peace Howebeit because here is daunger least of the one parte the false Bishops shoulde snatch a pretence hereupon to excuse their wicked and tyrannicall lawes he speaketh of those Popish Bishops whome he before described and on the other part least there should be anie too much fearefull which being warned by the former euils would leaue no place at all to lawes bee they neuer so holy it is a thing woorth the labour here to testifie that to conclude I doe allowe those humane constitutions which are founded on the authoritie of God and which are taken out of the scripture and so are wholly diuine Let the example be in the kneeling which is made while the solemne praiers are had The question is whether it be an humane tradition that is lawefull for euerie one to refuse or neglect I saye it is suche an humane tradition as that with all it is a diuine tradition It is of God in respect it is a part of that comelinesse the care and conseruation whereof is commended vnto vs by the Apostle But it is of man in respect that it designeth out in specialtie that which generally was ordeined rather than expounded By this one example wee may esteeme what wee ought to thinke of this whole kinde to witte because the Lorde hath faythfully comprehended with his holie eyes and clearely declared both the whole summe of true righteousnesse and all the partes of the worship of his godhead and whatsoeuer was necessarie to saluation in these he onely is our Master that must be heard but because in externall Discipline and Ceremonies he would not particularly prescribe what we should followe neither iudged he one forme to be conuenient for all ages of the worlde we must here flee vnto the generall rules that he gaue that what thinges so euer the necessitie of the Churche shal require to be commaunded for order and comelinesse may be driuen to them Thus among other these ceremoniall constitutions writeth Caluine of kneeling at the times of solemne prayers which are then most requisite while wee are participating the heauenly mysteries of the Lordes supper And therefore kneeling though it be not necessarie with any simple necessitie in it selfe yet as it is a reuerent and diuine ceremonie it is necessarie as conuenient at the times of solemne prayer and thankesgiuing and of consequence at the communion both for order and comelinesse of the bodies gesture and for testification and edification also of the mindes deuotion But least a surplusse here should be left out that a surplusse say they in common prayer is more necessarie than a deuoute minde I do not thinke that any man is or euer was of that opinion For were he neuer so blinde a Papist yet till he chiefely stoode on his blinde deuotion And I appeale euen to our Brethrens consciences whether they thinke indéede as I beleeue they doe not that any man is of that minde But what shall the reader and and all the people thinke of this that the surplusse being here one of the ceremonies brought in for instance to admitte varietie as times persons and occasions serue to bee diuerse and so of consequence may well be vsed yea and by the correlation of this rule should be vsed ordinarily though it admitte sometimes such occasion of leauing it off And this also is become one of the desires in this Learned Discourse of all the faithfull ministers that seeke the reformation of the Church of Englande that the surplusse may be accounted but as a ceremonie that admitteth such varietie And yet we sée there are many amongst them so deuoted against a surplusse that rather than they will weare it at any time they will forsake all the ministerie and make great sturre and trouble about it notwithstanding the iudgement of all the reuerende and learned men that haue testified as euen heere their selues also are faine to doe the indifference of it and of the vse thereof But our Brethren not thinking of this contradiction betwéene their owne writing and their doing but thinking if at least wise they so thinke indeed that there be but what number they tell not that thinke these ceremonies are more necessarie than they be let vs nowe see what reason moueth our Brethren to thinke that there be such as do thinke so And great occasion say they offered to the ignorant so to thinke when they see them that preach most diligently praye most feruently and minister the Sacraments most reuerently according to Christes institution to bee displaced of all ministerie for a crosse or a font or a surplusse or some such other trifle Euery thing here that misliketh our Brethr. is but a trifle with them And thus they pretende vnto the world that they be displaced but for trifles But what soeuer these are is all the communion booke and publike prescribed forme of diuine seruice but a trifle too And is the ciuill Christian Magistrates authoritie and so the Queenes Maiesties supreme gouernement in all Ecclesiasticall causes so well as temporall and of consequence in all these and other causes in controuersie betweene vs but a trifle with our Brethren too and is all the superior authoritie of the Bishops all the controuersies about Discipline and the Ecclesiasticall Regiment of their tetrarchie for Doctors Pastors Gouernors and Deacons offices which they contende for and all the other particular matters in question both in this Learned Discourse and in all their other treatises which they still set foorth nothing but trifles For these
likewise they haue before declared and thereto cited euen one of their last testimonies pag. 21. by the name of Elders the Pastors are called Act. 14.23 where Paule and Barnabas ordeyned Elders by election in euery congregation But if now that they may be able to knowe these matters of which the hauing a Pastor is an order both of comelines and aedification according to Gods word these Elders themselues must be Pastors How shal these Elders enquire when the Pastors place is void where they may finde a man meet to supply his roome when the roome is neuer voyd of Pastors so long as the assemblie of Elders doth continue If they continue not much lesse can they enquire for one nor choose him nor deserue therein the ayde of the Synod for him But be the assemblie of the Elders Pastors themselues or not can they not choose another Pastor to supplye his roome when any Pastors place is voyde among them but that they ought therein to desire the ayde of the Synode For wherein do they meane this therein but of that they declared before to enquire when the Pastors place is voyde where they may finde a man meete to supplye his roome and therein to desire the ayde of the Synode They declared before concerning the Pastors election that it was conuenient to bee done by the iudgement of the particular Synode both for better aduice in choosing a meete man and for authoritie in causing him to accept their election And ought they now to haue the Synods ayde also to helpe them to enquire when the Pastors place is voyde where they may finde a meet man to supply his roome So that when and wheresoeuer in all England a Pastors place is voyde we ought not onely forthwith to haue a Synode vppon that onely occasion except the roome shall stande voyde till some greater occasion of a Synode happen but the Synodesayde must bee craued before the newe election where they may finde a meete man and in the election it selfe their aduise also must be had in choosing a meete man and besides this their authoritie must be had in causing him that is the elected partie to accept their election and finally it is conuenient that it bee done also euen by the iudgement of the particular Synode And then this meete man after all this inquirie both of the assemblie of Elders of that particular Church and of the Synodes ayde in this enquirie being at last found out and the man by such godly aduice so chosen and by this authoritie so caused to accept their election and all this being thus authentically done and ratified by the iudgement of the particular Synode the man ought to be presented to the congregation and by them to be allowed and receiued What and must a new allowance of the congregation be had after all this assembling inquiring aduising and choosing of the gouerning Elders of that congregation Yea and aboue them after all the assembling inquiring and better aduising and choosing and authorizing and euen causing the man to accept their election and after iudgement and all of the particular Synode What shall we thinke hereon Hath the particular congregation an higher authoritie of allowing the Pastor then haue not onely the gouerning Elders whom the congregation their selues haue of confidence chosen and committed vnto them their authoritie pag. 84. but also then the whole particular Synode whose ayde therein was desired and must it now be ouerruled by the allowing or disallowing of euery particular congregation If they say they meane not that the man ought so to bee allowed and receiued of the congregation that he may also of them bee dissallowed or not receiued but that the congregation must allowe him and receiue him after all these allowances of him and authorities What and will they impose him vpon them and inforce the congregation to allowe him and receiue him Well may they be compelled to receiue him but they cannot compell them to allowe him except from teeth outward If they say they meane not to cause them to allowe him or receiue him but that they ought onely of their duetie so to doe doe they not say in plaine words of the Synodes authoritie ouer the elected partie and for authoritie in causing him to accept their electioÌ„ What imply these words but that he must accept their election be he willing or vnwilling to accept it And haue they more authoritie to cause him to accept their election than they haue to cause that particular congregation which haue committed their authoritie to the assemblie of Elders which assemblie haue desired the ayde of the Synod to accept the man whom they haue thus elected for them But they say that they ought so to doe not simply but if no man can shewe any reasonable cause to the contrary And what if no man can doe this must they thus therefore impose Pastors on them And is not this imposing one of their quarelles against the Bishops are they now themselues faine to come to imposing of Pastors on the congregations But what now if any man can alleadge any reasonable cause to the contrarie must euery reason of any one man ouer-rule al the reasons and authorities both of all the residue of the congregation and of all the gouerning Elders and of all the Synode See what a great sturre wee haue here had still must haue about the choosing of euery Pastor in that Realme all the seuerall congregation all the assemblie of Elders all the Synode of the Prouince or Shire must meete together with all this adoe and when all is done in comes any one man he alone vpon any reasonable though not necessarie cause may turne topside turuie all their doings And is this the right election and ordeyning of Pastors Yea say they this is the right election and ordeining of Pastors Yea and grounded vppon the word of God and practised by the Primitiue Church 200. yeres after Christ. This is stoutly auouched if now they can proue it But can they shew this election and ordâ—yning of Pastors in any places yea in any one place in al Gods word Well what of that It is grounded say they vpon the word of God What Are they soone grounded What meane they by grounded CaÌ„ they shewe vs any one rule or but any one example hereof in the worde of God No place that they haue yet alleadged sheweth any such election and ordeyning of Pastors What Synodes assembling inquiring aduising choosing iudging and causing of the partie elected to accept their election was there had in the electing and ordeyning Pastors by Paule and Barnabas Act. 14 Or what electing and ordeyning of Pastors was there in the Synode if we shall properly call that assemblie a Synode which was of the Apostles and Elders of Ierusalem Acts. 15 Or doth S. Paule in any of his precepts to Timothie or to Titus commaund not only an
which before they had receaued â—s wée haue heard Caluines prescription Epist. 373. and so continued still in the office or ministery thus repurged And therefore since the masse was taken away and all â—he other corruptions of the Ministerie that were vsed in the popish priesthood an other Ministration appointed as is sette downe in our booke of publike prayer by the godly lawes of the realme and Church of England established which was done so soone as conueniently it could be done forthwith after her Maiesties moste happy entrance into this kingdome this is not truly sayd that the popish priesthood being the greatest blasphemie that euer was was alowed for a lawfull Ministerie vntill by the godly meaning of the sayd parliament Anno. 13. some brande-marke of shame was sette vppon it As though the sacrificing Priesthoode had continued with allowance therof for thirteene yere together of the Queenes Maiesties raigne which was as long a time as before they mencioned for the inforcing of the ministers to studie Yea by this rule it continueth still though disallowed or rather as they say but noted onely with a brand-marke of shame set vpon it So that this is not the taking of it awaye but the continuing of it with more shame to the parliament and to all the states of the Realmâ— that haue marked it with a brand-marke of shame and yet shame not to continue it though we disallow it And this withall is but a shamefull and vnreuerent terme that here they vse in calling eyther the statute or the booke of articles agreed vppon by all the clergie of the Churche of England and approued in the high courte of parliament by al the states of the realme and by the statute commaunded to be read a brand-marke of shame But our brethren to mittigate the matter say the parliament had a godly meaning in making that statute for Priestes that had bin made in the tyme of Popery to professe their consent to the true doctrine agreed vpon in the booke of articles by their publike reading of the same booke in their benefices Yea verily the parliament had therein a very godly meaning and it was also as godly an act â—s meaning of the parliament But saye they how pitifullye that authority was abused which by the same statute was committed to the Bishops in allowing of Priestes that came to doe their pennance by negligence of the Bishops and bribery of their officers the country cryeth out of it and the state of the Church is little amended by it There is no such crying out in the country as are these outcries of our brethren If it be but little amended yet little is somewhat But if it bee not greate that is not to be unputed to the good lawe but to the euill and indirect accidents For it was not pitifull that that authority was committed to the Bishops in allowing of Priestes that came not as our brethren here say to doe their pennance or to haue a brand-marke of shame set vpon them but the statute it selfe more reuerently and rightly setteth downe the cause and order of their act saying That the Churches of the Queenes Maiesties dominions maye bee serued with Pastors of sound religion be it enacted by the authority of this present Parliament that euerye person vnder the degree of a Byshop which doth or shall pretende to be a priest or Minister of gods holy worde and Sacramentes by reason of anye other fourme of institution consecration or ordeyning than the forme set foorth by Parliament in the tyme of the late King of most worthye memorye King Edwarde the sixte or now vsed in the raigne of our moste gratious Soueraigne Ladye before the feaste of the Natiuitie nexte following shall in the presence of the Bishop or gardian of the spiritualties of some one diocoese where he hath or shall haue ecclesiasticall liuing declare his assent and subscribe to all the articles of religion which onely concerne the confession of the true Christian Faith and the doctrine of the SacrameÌ„ts comprised in a booke imprinted intituled Articles wherupoÌ„ it was agreed by the Archbish. Bish. of both prouinces the whole Clergy in the Conuocation holden at London in the yeare of our lorâ— God 1562. According to the computation of the Church of england for the auoyding of the diuersities of opinions and for the establishing of consent touching true Religion put forth by the Queenes Authoritye And shall bring from suche B. or gardian of Spiritualties in wryting vnder his Seale authentike and testimoniall of such assent subscription openly on some Sonday in the time of publike seruice afore noone in euery church wher by reasoÌ„ of any Ecc liuing he ought to atteÌ„d reade both the said Testimoniall the said articles vpon paine that euery such persoÌ„ which shal not before the said feast do as is aboue appointed shall be ipso facto depriued al his Eccl. promotions shal be voyd as if he then were naturally dead These are the very words of the statute Wherein what could they better haue prouided than whatsoeuer they should ordeyne for the bringing of those persons to the more sure confession and consent of sound Religion firste to come before the Bishoppe or the Gardian of the â—pirituall iurisdiction in the Bishops vacancie in some one Diocoese where hee had any ecclesiasticall promotion or liuing and there before him declare his consent and also subscribe to all the articles of religion which onelye concerne the confession of the true Christian Faith c. Before whom should he haue done this if he should doe it authentically than before the Bishop or the bishops gardian being the publike officers that haue competent authority ouer him in those matters which withall confuteth our brethrens equall authority of all Pastors If the bishops were negligent or the officers take bribes this was the bishops the officers fault not any default in the lawes Wise men should not doe like WilliaÌ„ Summer strike one for another But if the bishops negligence and the bribery of the officers be so great that the countrye cryeth out of it and the state of the Church is little amended it is then so much the easier to be knowne who are the offenders that so pitifâ—lly abused this godly meaning of the statute that authority committed to them and not they to be thus disorderly cried out vpon and that in this vncharitable maner by inuectiue libelles vnder the tytle of learned discourses to be thus discoursed vpon with taunts slaunders defamed to all the worlde so much as lyes in them If the matter be little amended this is not to amend it more but to make it worse for this is naught worth but to norishe malice suspitioÌ„ sclaunder yet the fault not knowne much lesse ameÌ„ded Let the negligence briberies with true desire of reformation as the title of this learned discourse pretendeth
followeth how can our brethren excuse them selues that they be not in danger of this Act if they haue beneâ—ices or haue they not done and doe cleane contrary to this their learned discourse in agreeing to the statute that they might holde their liuings if they haue not lost them againe by setting out this their learned discourse and by their maintenance of these opinions and assertions that are so direct against the statutes marke the wordes of the act and as they call it the godly meaning of the parliament And that if any person ecclesiasticall or which shall haue ecclesiasticall liuing shall aduisedly mainteyne or affirme any doctrine directly coÌ„trary or repugnant to any of the sayd articles and being conuented before the Bishop of the diocoese or the ordinarie or before the Queenes highnesse commissioners in causes ecclesiasticall shall persist therein or not reuoke his errour or after such reuocatioÌ„ eftsoones affirme such vntrue doctrine such mainteyning or affirming and persisting or suche eftsoones affirming shal be iust cause to depriue such persons of his ecclesiasticall promotions And it shal be lawfull for the Bishop of the diocoese or the ordinary or the said commissioners to depriue such persoÌ„ so persisting or lawfully conuicted of such eftsoones affirming vpoÌ„ such sentence of depriuation pronounced he shal be indeed depriued Now if we shall withal consider how our brethren haue aduisedlie that is to say of deliberate and aduised purpose directly in this their learned discourse pag. 135 challenged the doctrine of the sayd booke of Articles saying As was practised in the conuocation of the foresaid parliament vnto diuers Godly and learned preachers that offred to speake against diuers grosse and palpable errours that had escaped the Bishops decrees as for the distinction of Canonicall and apocriphall bookes for explication of the clause in the article of predestination where it is sayde the elect may fall from grace and such like matters how truly this is spken of that conuocation and howe trulye also they haue in these wordes burdened both the Bishops and the articles of no lesse than grosse and palpable errours and that in principall pointes of doctrine I reserue that till I come to the proper place where it is to be answered But howe haue not our brethren aduisedly affirmed and if they will stand to it maintayned doctrine directlye contrarye and repugnant to some of the the Articles of the sayde booke For to affirme and maintaine that that which is good doctrine is a grosse and palpable errour what is that but to affirme and maintaine the doctrine that is directly contrary and repugnant thereto and what remayneth But that if the Bishops will not pitifully abuse that authority of the statute that was committed vnto them they or the ordinarye or the Queenes Maiesties highe commissioners in Ecclesiasticall causes ought to conuent these oure learned discoursing Bretheren before them if they had anye names that they might knowe them and if any of them shall persist and not reuoke his errour c that this shal be iust cause to depriue such person of his Ecclesiasticall promotions And besides these Articles aforesaid that they challenge for grosse palpable errours how do they not also impugne the 34.35 36. articles of the said booke Yea diuerse of theÌ„ haue beene also conueÌ„ted before the Bishop the Ordinary or the Commissioners aforesayd and haue persisted in the contrarye to those articles and these our learned discoursing bretheren haue gone further to put their contradictions foorth to the worlde in print The wordes of the 34. article which they inpugne are these Who soeuer throughe his priuate Iudgement willingly and purposelye doth openlye breake the traditions of the Church which bee not repugnaâ—t to the worde of God and be ordeyned and approued by common authoritye oughte to be rebuked openly that other maye feare to doe the lyke as hee that offendeth against the common order of the Church and hurteth the authoritye of the Magistrate and woundeth the consciences of the weake bretheren If our Brethren would agrée vnto this article there should not be such troubles as there are amongst vs. The 35. article is of Homilies The second booke of homilies the seuerall titles wherof we haue ioyned vnder this article doth conteyne a godly and wholesom doctrine necessary for these times as doth the former boke of homilies which were set forth in the time of K. Edward the 6. therfore we iudge them to be read in churches by the ministers diligently distinctly that they may be vnderstood of the people Our brethren say pa. 49. that a prescript forme of reading of praiers of homelies such like when they are alleaged to maintain the ignorance of vnskilful pastors as though that were the vse they are alleaged for are but the instrumeÌ„ts of folish Idoll shepherds which haue a certaine preteÌ„ce of Pastorall office but in effect are altogether vnmeete for the same The 36. article is for ConsecratioÌ„ of B. ministers The booke of consecration of Archbishops B. ordering of priestes deacons lately set foorth in the time of Edward the 6. confirmed at the same time by authority of parliament doth conteyn al things necessary to such consecration ordering neither hath it any thing that of it selfe is superstitious or vngodly therefore whosoeuer are consecrated or ordered according to the rites of that boke since the secoÌ„d yere of the aforenamed king Edward vnto this time or hereafter shal be consecrated or ordered according to the same rires we decree all such to bee rightly orderly and lawfully consecrated and ordered And is not now the greatest part of this our brethrens learned discourse for the consecrating ordering or ordeyning of Archbishops B. Priestes or Elders and deacons directly contrary and repugnant to the doctrine and decree of this article and what followeth hereupon but that eyther our brethren must renounce this their learned discourse or must denie the authority and godly meaning of this act Anno. 13 which here they haue approued or else if the B. and other offâ—cers shall not pitifully abuse that authority which by the same statute is committed to them they must by the godly meaning and wordes of this act pronounce them to bee iustly depriued yea theirselues haue pronounced sentence against themselues But this and all other inconueniences before rehearsed shoulde vtterly bee auoided if wee might once establish the lawfull election of Pastors according to the woorde of God It were also greatlye to bee wished that it might bee brought to passe that in euery congregation there shoulde bee two Pastors at the leaste both bicause the charge is greate and also for supplying the lacke of the one if the other were sicke or absent vppon necessitye or anye such lyke case Which thing were both agreeable to the example of the Apostolike church and also verye profitable for the congregation Wee doe not
dominion And do they héere acknowledge then in this vnderstanding the title of the Princes supremacie nothing else but that it doth properly appertaine to the ciuil Magistrate meaning the soueraigne Christian Prince to bee the highest gouernour of all persons within his dominion Well this is yet farre more than the blind and rebellious Papists will graunt Howbeit in some respect they will graunt thus much also But shal the Prince be gouernor likewise of them that properly must be called Gouernors And why not if he must be aboue the Pastor also which is aboue them Howbeit all this is granted here as yet no further than for the persons No is This is but halfe of the title of the Princes supremacie Where is the matter wherin this supremacy doth consist that is to say in al matters or causes so well eccl as tēporall This is the materiall part of this title no lesse necessary than other of the persons is the chiefest point of this controuersie betwixt the Papists vs. And do our Br. now begin to stay here another while at this Thē we may make a faire piece of work What is this part forestalled vp already by any of the former tetrarkes Indéede they saide very suspitiously to the matter pag. 84. Therefore there ought to be in euery Church a Consistory or Seignory of Elders or Gouernors which ought to haue the hearing examination and determining of all matters pertaining to discipline and gouernment of that congregation Yea but say they that sentence goeth further which authoritie of theirs neuerthelesse ought to be moderated Or else say I farwell cleane the Princes supremacy in al eccl matters if these Gouernors authoritie in all matters pertayning to discipline gouernmēt of that cōgregatiō be not moderated and y◠wel moderated Yes say they it ought to be moderated that their iudgement may be rightly accounted the iudgement of the holy Church Yea but say I how is it moderated that it do not debarre the supremacie of the Prince in all these matters Which thing say they cōsisteth in these 2 points first that the Elders be elected chosen by consent of all the cōgregation mē of godlines wisdom in whō the whole church reposeth such cōfidence that they cōmit vnto thē their authoritie in hearing determining such matters as without horrible confusion they can not performe themselues Why but al this while what is this to any point of the Princes autoritie in all this matter Is there no better prouiso for the Prince in the 2. point of moderating the authority of these gouernors in Eccl. matters The 2. point say they for moderation of the Elders authoritie in such sort that their sentence may be the sentence of the Church is this that whē the Consistory haue trauelled in examining of causes pertaining to Eccl discipline agreed what iudgmēt ought to passe vpō the matters they propound it to the whole multitude that it may be confirmed Yea is all the wind in that dore Still the whole multitude The whole Church The whole congregation As though all the authoritie in Eccl. matters commeth from them as from the spring and floweth to thē as to the Sea They make the gouernors which gouernors must with the Pastors make all the lawes must heare determine of all matters pertayning to discipline to gouernment of that congregatiō and whē they haue so don al must be again referred to that cōgregation to the whole multitude of them that it may be confirmed by their consent What and must it not come a litle higher after them to be at least propounded also to the Prince that it may be also confirmed by his consent No no no beware that of all things if it be once confirmed by the multitude of that congregation it hath passed all his confirmations and can haue no more godfathers except it come to a Synode But there we haue already heard how the Prince hath sped except that now we shall heare of any more For there are some matters yet left to the Prince for his supremacie to consist in or else besides a bare title it is meere nothing no not of the persons neither vnlesse withall it be in some matters Well but they will not yet tell vs of these matters til afterwards But thus farre they haue acknowledged for the persons that the Prince is the highest gouernour of all persons within his dominion Would not this haue bin very well necessarily ioyned together vnto it to know in what matters he is the highest of all the persons Or else they may moue what controuersie on the supremacie they shall please or cleane deny it But since they will stay a while vpon the supremacie ouer all persons in the Princes dominions that with this prouiso if it be rightly vnderstood so that the soueraigne Empire of God be kept whole let vs stay also to go together with them and consider what stop or limax this is that stayes them here in their procéeding from the persons to the matters But herein resteth all the doubt how this is truly to be vnderstood that shall wee best vnderstand by the contrarie namely by the vsurped tyrannie of Antichrist For Antichrist did chalenge vnto himselfe all authoritie both that which is proper to God and that which is common to men Therefore that the Pope claymed to be the onely head of the Church from which the whole bodie receiued direction and was kept in vnitie of faith this was blasphemous against Christ therfore may not be vsurped of any ciuil Magistrate no more than by the pope Likewise where he chalengeth authoritie to alter change dispence with the commandement of God to make new articles of fayth to ordaine new Sacraments c. This is also blasphemous ought not to be vsurped of any ciuill prince on the other side where he chalengeth authoritie ouer all princes and so ouer all the Clergie that hee did exempt them from the ciuill iurisdiction this is contumelious and iniurious against all Christian kinges And therefore euerie prince in his owne dominion ought to cast off the yoake of his subiection and to bring all Eccl. persons vnto his obedience and iurisdiction Here haue we the first part of the title of supreme gouernment ouer all persons If all the doubt resteth herein how this is truly to be vnderstoode that the soueraigne Empire of God may be kept whole then is the supremacie that her Ma. holdeth and that we acknowledge due properly appertayneth to the Prince without all doubting of the matter And if our Brethren wil acknowledge all that supremacie vnto the Prince saue that supremacie which is proper to God and saue that supremacie or rather tyrannie which the Pope chalenged and vsurped or which is agréeable thereunto we should soone agrée herein without moouing any controuersie or doubt of this matter Yea this should soone
decide al our other controuersies For first we confesse with our Brethr. that this Antichrist the Pope did and doth chalenge vnto himselfe all authoritie both that which is proper to God and that which is common to men But so doth not her Maiestie chalenge nor acknowledg any other authoritie but that that is due and properly appertayning to the Prince vnder God common onely to those persons or rather peculiar to them that vnder God are the chiefe Soueraignes in their Dominions We confesse also with our Brethr. that this Antichrist the Pope claimeth to be that only heade of the Church frō which the whole bodie receaued directiō was kept in vnitie of faith this his claime was is blaspemous against Christ therefore may not be vsurped by any ciuill Magistrate no more than by the Pope Neither doth her Maiestie or euer did neither did her foresayd most royall Father Brother claime or vsurpe any such authoritie ouer vs or we acknowledge any such authoritie in them We confesse with our Brethren likewise where he meaning this Antichrist the Pope chalengeth authoritie to alter change dispense with the commaundementes of God to make newe articles of fayth to ordayne newe Sacramentes c. this is also blasphemous and ought not to be vsurped of any ciuill Prince Neyther doth her Maiestie or did her foresayde most noble Father and brother vsurp or chalenge any such authoritie or we yéelde it Caluine indéede did at the first so mistake it that the most noble Prince K. Henrie the 8. tooke vpon him the like authoritie and therefore wrote against it verie inconsiderately But afterwarde both in K. Edw. in her Ma. perceiuing no such authoritie giuen or taken he tooke no such offence at the claime of their authoritie but approoueth the same and in all due manner writeth to them We confesse also with our Br. on the otherside where he to wit this Antichrist the Pope chalengeth authoritie ouer all Princes so ouer all the Clergie that he did exempt them frō the ciuill iurisdiction this is contumelious iniurious against al Christian kings Neither doth her Maiestie or did her foresayde most noble Father brother chalenge any such authoritie ouer all Princes nor ouer all the Clergie except a due authoritie ouer al such inferiour Princes because some states in the Realm may be included in the name of Princes vnder her Ma. ouer al those of the clergie which are within her Ma. dominiōs are her lawful subiects neither exempteth she the Clergie frō al the ciuil iurisdiction nor offreth in this her authority any contumely or iniurie to al or against any christian Kings or against other Soueraignes in their Dominions neither do wee acknowledge any other than such as is a lawefull authoritie in her Maiestie And here as her Maiestie is frée her title and authoritie right due in her own dominions ouer all vnder vassaile Princes in or of the same dominions and ouer all the Clergie also in or of all her Maiesties dominions aforesaide concerning the ciuill iurisdiction wherof so farre as the Clergie hold any portion or any other ciuill priuiledge prerogatiue franchesse or immunitie they hold it reacknowledge it in all due obedience and thankefulnesse as deriued frō the munificence of her Ma. and her royall Progenitors So let our Brethren herein take héede how they their new Clergie of consistory gouernors in their Sanedrins vnder pretence of enquiring examining determining iudging and punishing all offences in their seuerall congregations encroch not vpon the Princes ciuil iurisdiction For this also is contumelious and iniurious both against her Maiesties authoritie against al christian Kings Princes and against the most of the ciuill Magistrates Iudges Iustices officers vnder the chiefe and soueraigne Princes besides the Eccl. Prelates their officers And therefore we conclude as our Brethr. here do euery Prince in his own dominion ought to cast off the yoake of his to wit the Popes subiection to bring all Eccl. persons vnto his or her obedience iurisdiction And we conclude a little further that in the number of these Eccl. persons the Prince ought to bring in presupposing there were any such all this new kinde of Doctors all these new Bishops in euery parish all these new Gouernors and all these new Deacons in euerie congregation in his or her dominions vnder his or her obedience iurisdiction and to cast off the yoake of their subiection which if they ought to doe then let our Brethr. againe take héede how they impugne the obedience and iurisdiction of her Maiestie and her lawes established and cast among her subiectes such repugnant discourses as this is vaunt they neuer so much therein of Learning Here haue we say they the first part of the title of supreme gouernment ouer all persons And thus farre both our Brethren we agrée concerning the persons In matters or causes Eccl. likewise the Pope doth not onely presume against God as we sayd before but also against the lawfull authoritie giuen by God vnto men For he forbiddeth Princes to meddle with reformation of Eccl. matters or to make any lawes pertayning to causes of religion aunswering them that those thinges do appertaine only to him and the generall Counsell But when he cōmeth to debate any thing with his Clergie then al lawes and knowledge are inclosed in the closet of his breast When any generall Councell must be holden all that they do receiueth authoritie from him For except he do allow it is nothing And hee is so wise that neither with the Councell nor without the Councell he can erre or thinke amisse in matters Eccl. when as it is not onely lawefull but also necessarie for Princes if they will doe their dutie to looke to the reformation of religion and to make lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall But so that wee confounde not the offices of the Prince and Pastor For as it is not lawefull for the prince to preach nor administer the Sacraments no more is it lawfull for him to make lawes in Eccl. causes contrarie to the knowledge of his learned Pastors For as these three partes of the pastors dutie are graunted to him by God preaching ministring of Sacramentes and Eccl gouernment he may no more take from a Pastor the third than he may the two first They are now come from the persons to the matters or causes Eccl. wherein and how farre foorth they will acknowledge the title and authoritie of the Princes supremacie All this that our Brethr. say here against the popes claime of supremacie for matters or causes Eccl. the same say we And we gladly accept that which our Brethren do condemne in the popes presumption and vsurpation both against God and man and his forbidding princes to meddle with reformation of Eccl. matters or to make any lawes pertayning to causes of religion aunswering them that
those thinges do appertaine onely to him and the generall Councell And here we beséech our Brethren confessing thus much against the pope as it becommeth good subiectes to their prince to aduise theÌ„selues withall of their former vnaduised spéeches pag. 9 10.84.85.117.1â—8.119 in which places besides their hard termes of Christian princes doe they not giue vnder the name of the Church her authoritie the knowing the hearing the examining the determining the iudging and the punishing of all matters and causes pertayning to discipline gouernment of the Church either to their pastors and teachers or to the Seignories of their gouernors And what differeth this from forbidding princes to meddle with reformation of Eccl. matters or to make lawes pertayning to causes of religion aunswering them that those thinges do appertayne only to them and to their consistories and to their particulaâ— Synodes or generall Councell But when he say they meaning the pope coÌ„meth to debate any thing with his Clergie theÌ„ all lawes and knowledge are inclosed in the closet of his breast And is this any more than to say not onely to the Prince but also to their owne consistorie gouernors of whom their Synodes consist as well as of themselues pag. 117. who should be able to knowe what order comlines aedification requireth according to Gods word but they that be teachers preachers of the same vnto all others For it is absurde that they should be taught by such in these small thinges as ought to learne the truth of in all matters This authoritie therfore can not be graunted vnto any ciuill Christian Magistrate that without consent of the learned Pastors and Elders yea against their consent of whom as in some respect he is a feeling member he may lawfully make ceremoniall constitutions whereby the Church must bee gouerned in meere Eccl. matters Sith therfore they turne al this against the Prince is not this as much as when they come to debate any thing with their Clergie Gouernors that theÌ„ all lawes knowledge is inclosed in the closet of their breasts both from the Prince and from their owne Clergie and Eccl. Gouernors Is not this as much as when they holde their generall Counsels or Prouinciall that all the authoritie must come from them For except they doe allow it it is nothing And how farre differs this froÌ„ the Popes conceit that they also are growen so wise that neither with counsell nor without the Councel they can erre or think amisse in Eccl matters Had they a generall Councell of all those that they call the faithfull ministers that composed this Learned discourse of Eccl. gouernment Well yet there is here some good hope that when our Brethr. shall haue better bethought theÌ„ of these things which they mislike in the Pope debarring the right interest of Christian Princes the verie vggly sight thereof will be as a glasse vnto theÌ„ to sée mislike their owne spéeches and doings in taking vpon them though not the verie same yet so like presumption and vsurpation especially so many and so little states as they are farre inferiour to the Pope and at the verie first péeping out of them yea before they are come to that they would haue thus to insult not onely on the Bishops and to come and set out lawes before themselues are called vnto such authoritie but also thus to blemish and deface the Christian Princes authoritie to abase and debarre it to examine and determine yea to encroch vpon the right and interest in these matters of all Christian Princes and of their owne most godly and gracious Soueraigne But since the sight of their own description of the Popes presumptioÌ„ vsurpation doth begin here to make them stoupe somwhat to the Princes supremacy let them now in good time likewise remember their own sayings pag. 77. 78. where speaking also of the Pope whose intollerable presumption say they as we haue long since banished out of this land so wee wish that no steppe of such pride and arrogancie might bee left behinde him namely that no Elder or Minister of the Churche marke these your owne wordes well good Brethren and turne them not so off against our Bishops that ye forget your selues should chalenge vnto himselfe or accept it if it were offered vnto him any other authoritie than that is allowed by the spirit of God but chiefely to beware that he vsurpe no authoritie which is forbidden by the word of God For wherefore do we detest the Pope and his vsurped supremacie but bycause he arrogateth the same vnto himselfe not onely without the warrant of Gods word but also cleane contrarie to the same Now if the same reasons and authorities that haue banished the Pope do serue to condemne all other vsurped authoritie that is practised in the Church why should not all such vsurped authoritie be banished as well as the Pope we can alleage against the Pope and rightly that which S. Iohn Baptist did aunswere to his disciples No man can take vnto himselfe any thing except it be giuen him from heauen Ioh. 3.27 and that saying of the Apostle to the Hebrewes No man can take vpon him any honor in the Church of God but he that is called of God as was Aaron in somuch that Christ himselfe did not giue himselfe to be an high Priest but he that sayd vnto him Thou art my Sonne this day haue I begotten thee He sayth in another place Thou art a Priest for euer after the order of Melchizedech Now seeing these rules are so generall that the Sonne of God himselfe was not exempted from them but shewed foorth the decree wherin he was authorized by what rule can any man reteyne that authoritie in the Church of God that is not called therunto by the word of God All these words haue our Brethren alleaged triumphantly against the Bishops whose authoritie we haue séene to be throughly grounded on the word of God But for their Consistorie Gouernors to whome they giue such great authoritie we haue as yet after all this shuffling coniecturing pulling and haling of the Scripture of the auncient Fathers and of the old Churches practise to found it vpon we could not yet finde vpon better view therof so much as one good and substantiall proofe or authoritie for it or the example but of one such man And as for their Pastors if none be Pastors but such as are ordeyned after the forme by themselues set downe Pag. 125. saying this is the right election and ordeyning of Pastors grounded vpon the word of God when we come to search better in the word of God we finde not one Pastor so elected and ordeyned And as for their selues these faithfull Ministers none of them neyther that I can learne of were so elected and ordeyned and so they haue eyther no right calling nor authoritie at all but are méere intruders yea méere lay men or else that authoritie that they
ministerie of the preaching of the same shall vnderstand to be prositable for aedifying of the Church of Christe and the aduauncement of the glory of God If any shall offend against the Lawes whether he be a Preacher or hearer besides the Ecclesiasticall censure which hee shoulde not escape he is also to be punished in body by the ciuill Magistrate They haue not yet eyther by these or by ought else before spoken made it appeare howe farre it is lawfull for Princes to intermedle with causes ecclesiasticall And howe their supreme authoritie therein which is farre higher then onely intermedling stretcheth As for the things which heere as a recapitulation they set downe are nothing so much as they graunted before For although they say that it is the cheefest point of their duetie to haue especiall regard that God may bee glorified in their Dominion yet that doth not shewe what especiall authoritie they haue therein and how farre foorth they haue it If they say that they do this in the conclusion following these wordes And therefore they ought to make ciuill Lawes to binde the people vnto the Confession of the true fayth and the right administring and receiuing of the Sacraments and to all Eccl. orders What haue they graunted heere to her Maiestie but the onely making of ciuill Lawes and thus the conclusion when all comes to al is not so much as that they graunted before or at leaste made vs a shewe thereof And yet they made to great daintie in the graunt thereof with so many exceptions which graunt notwithstanding we gladly accepted at their handes and made much of it that it is not onely lawfull but also necessarie for princes if they will doe their duetie to looke to the reformation of religion and to make lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters so that we confounde not the offices of the Prince and the Pastor Heere euerie man that meaneth no subtiltie woulde straight haue thought that as the pastor hath some part of looking to the reformation of religion and of making Lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall pertayning to the office of a pastor distinct from the office of a prince so the prince also hath some parts of looking to the reformation of religion of making lawes of matters Eccl. pertaining to the office of a prince distinct from the office of a pastor And that although the partes of eyther of their offices be distinct yet in the verie looking to that reformation of Religion and to the verie making of those Lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall they both of them dointermeddle which is the terme that their selues euen héere do vse But see nowe what a fayre gift our Brethren haue héere graunted It is lawfull and necessarie for Princes to make Lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall What Lawes Forsooth they ought to make ciuill lawes to bind the people vnto the confession of true faith and the right administring of the Sacraments and to all Ecclesiasticall orders Yea forsooth in this last and third point lieth chiefely the question of making lawes But haue they any stroke in making lawes of any those Eccl. orders No but onely that they being instructed by the word of God through the ministery of the preaching of the same shall vnderstand to be profitable to the edifyeng of the Church and the aduancement of the glorie of God should bynde the people to them What should they make ciuill lawes to bynde the people to them before that they be made lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall or howe can they be made lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall doth the scripture make all the lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall that are made or is the ministerie of the preaching of the same a sufficient instruction for the Prince to take them for Ecclesiasticall lawes bycause they put him to vnderstand that they be profytable for edifying the Church of Christ and aduancement of the glorie of God so that what they shall say as profitable héereunto that is a lawe or he must so take it or else still I demaund who had the authoritie to make those lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall except they shall say they were all made before there were any christian Princes which was theyr former refuge Albeit Moses Iosue Dauid Salomon c. will ouer-reach that shift for they had a stroke euen in the verie making of Ecclesiasticall lawes and orders them selues and not onely in the making of ciuill lawes for Ecclesiasticall lawes and orders to bynde the people vnto them and so had also dyuers Christian Princes since Christes time many of whose lawes are Ecclesiasticall lawes themselues and Canons of the Church in the Canon lawe and not onely ciuill lawes made to binde the people to keepe the Canon lawes or Ecclesiasticall orders and such also are diuers lawes of the auncient Bryttish and English Kings in this Realme and the Epistle of Eleutherius himselfe if it be his giueth Lucius no lesse authoritie But is this all that our Brethren will allow to Christian Princes and no further authoritie than this yes If any shall offend against the lawes whether he be Preacher or hearer beside the Ecclesiastical censure which he should not escape he is also to be punished in body by the ciuill Magistrate And is this againe all that we shall get more than before we got for the supreme authoritie of the Christian Prince in Ecclesiasticall matters and what more is héere graunted to the Prince than the verie Papists yea than the Pope himselfe as proude and iniurious to Princes as he is will graunt vnto them to make ciuill lawes for the defence of the lawes Ecclesiasticall that he and his Cleargy onely do make making the Princes to be the onely punishers and as it were their executioners of iustice vpon them that shall offend against their lawes This they can well allow and like that Princes should haue authority to punish the offender in body besides the Ecclesiasticall censure which the offender shall not escape at their hands and for this cause they call the Emperour the Churches aduocate and the Pope himselfe yéelded this title to King Henry the eyght to be called the defender of the faith and will our Brethren yéeld no better supremacy nor greater authority to christian Princes and so to her Maiesty than the Papists and the very Pope wil offer to yéeld her so that her Maiesty will but make ciuill lawes to bynde the people to their lawes and Ecclesiasticall orders that the Pope and his Cleargie shall make and that if any shall offend in body against his lawes whether he be Preacher or hearer besides the Ecclesiasticall censure which he should not escape he is also to be punished in body by the ciuill Magistrate all this doth the Pope offer to all the Princes in theyr dominions that haue not cast off the yoke of his subiection but liue in greatest seruitude vnder him and yet our new Pastors make all this mincing to graunt but thus
much authoritie at length vnto their Princes But now if they will beare so hard a hand that we shall get no more authoritie for the Prince and so for her Maiestie but bare and hardly this which would make a man to maruell that they which so often talke of her Maiesties supreme gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes haue now brought it from a supremacie to such an inferioritie that the Pope will offer as much authoritie to Princes to mainteine his errors as these Pastors will offer to mainteine the Gospell yet I maruell the lesse considering all things for they haue great cause to be afrayde to graunt the Prince but thus much For haue the Prince but this authoritie ouer all the persons that if any shall offend against the lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall or against the Princes ciuill lawes made to bind the people to them whether he be Preacher or hearer besides the Ecclesiasticall censure which he should not escape that he is also to be punished in body by the ciuill Magistrate If this be so then it stands our Brethren vpon to take great héede for howsoeuer they shall despise our Prelates Ecclesiasticall censure how will they escape this bodily punishment Yea how do they not pronounce this sentence thereof against themselues do they thinke that they offend not her Maiesties lawes that thus deface them breake them and write against them or do they thinke they be not her Maiesties Lawes but the Churches or the Cleargies Did not her Maiesties approbation of them quicken confirme them to become Lawes and hath she made no other ciuill Lawes also with the whole authoritie of the Realme to establish those Lawes Or do they thinke her Maiesties Lawes to be no Lawes neyther Ecclesiasticall nor yet Ciuill so they may indéede make a wise match and finde that not onely her Maiesties Lawes be Lâ—wes and good and lawfull lawes also but that her punishments be punishments and that iust and seuere punishments too But her Maiestie is most mercifull and I hope they will be more dutifull and bethinke themselues better on these things This we see that all Christian Emperours obserued that when any controuersie arose eyther of doctrine or of order and ceremonies they commaunded the Cleargie to consult and determine thereof according to the Scripture who assembling together in counsell obeyed theyr commaundement theyr conclusion then by the authoritie of the Emperour was commaunded euery where to be obserued and those that impugned it to be punished The same order we reade to be obserued by the Christian Kings of Fraunce and Spayne yea of this our Bryttannie also in gouerning their Ecclesiasticall state by the aduice of the Cleargie of their dominion Her Maiestie taketh not on her nor desireth any more neyther do we acknowledge any lesse authoritie in her then had the auncient Christian Emperours Constantine Theodosius Valentinian Martianus Honorius Arcadius Iustinian c. And we graunt that all Christian Emperours obserued this that when any controuersie arose eyther of doctrine or of order and ceremonies if the importance of that controuersie did so require they commaunded the Cleargie to consult and to determine thereof according to the Scripture this is most true and it was well done of them Howbeit they their selues made many good Ecclesiasticall lawes and sanctions besides those which they confirmed with their supreme authoritie that by occasion of great controuersies were consulted vpon and determined in generall or prouinciall Counsels And yet euen in those Counsels the Emperour did not onely commaund the Cleargie to consult and determine of the controuersies eyther of doctrine or of order and ceremonies and when the Cleargie had consulted vpon and determined the same and had declared theyr determination to the Emperour then he allowed it and commaunded that euery where it should be obserued and those that impugned it to be punished for this indéede were no more then as I sayd before the verie Pope hymselfe saue for the commaunding of him and them could be content the Emperour yet should do so that he would intermedle nothing in the matters themselues that are in controuersie but let him and his Cleargie alone with the consulting and determining of all the controuersies and the Emperour onely to allow of their Decree and to commaund all his subiects whether they be Preachers or hearers to obserue the same and to punish those that do impugne it But that which the Pope can in no wise abide the Emperour went further than all this commeth to for besides that he did all those things in the Counselles which we haue before declared though he had also Presidents whome he appointed according as he thought méete to gouerne the Counsell and all the order and actions thereof yet now and then as the importance of the matter required and other affayres hindered him not he sate himselfe in the Counsell among them debated and consulted on the matters with them and ioyned also with them euen in the determination of the matters themselues And that this is true the Emperour Constantines owne wordes do witnesse of his owne dooings in the most famous Nicene Councell and that both in the chiefest controuersie of our faith and also in that great controuersie of the order and ceremonie of kéeping Easter day after the order that we now kéepe it whereof Constantine writing his Epistle vnto all Churches as appeareth in Socrates historie lib. 1. cap. 6. he sayeth on this wise When as I perceyued by the prosperous and flourishing estate of the common weale how greatly we are beholden to the goodnesse of Almightie God conferred vpon vs I iudged that aboue all things it behoued me of dutie to foresee that in the most holie and sacred assemblyes of the Catholike Church vnder heauen there should one faith sincere loue and charitie vniforme consent and agreement touching the religion and seruice of Almightie God inuiolably be reteyned but sithence that the same could by no other meanes be settled in sure and firme place except all the Byshops or the greatest part of them had assembled together and that euery one had giuen his iudgement of the matters perteyning to the most holie religion when as for the same cause so great an assemblie as possiblie could be made was gathered together I my selfe euen as one of your number was present together with you for neyther did I refuse to ioyne my selfe with you in that ministerie of which doing I conceyue great ioy and so farre were all the matters exquisitely sought out vntill the sentence gratefull and acceptable vnto God for the concord and consent of mens minds was openly pronounced in so much that nothing at all remayneth heereafter that may tend to discord or controuersie of the faith When as at that time it was disputed vpon concerning the feast day of Eeaster it was thought meete by the common sentence of all that all men euery where should celebrate the same
at Cabellinum especially in the Counsell that he held at Mentz where the Counsell craueth his ayde and confirmation of such Articles as they had agréed vpon so that he iudge them worthy to be confirmed beséeching him to cause that to be amended that is found to be worthy of amendment Which Counsell also giueth God thanks that he had giuen vnto his Church a Gouernour godly and deuout in his seruice who in his time opening the fountaine of godly wisedome doth continually feede the sheepe of Christ with holy foode instructeth them with diuine knowledge c. And in his Edicts set out not only to the Layty but to the Cleargy he writeth thus Charles by the grace of God King and Gouernour of the Kingdome of Fraunce c. Wherefore I thought good to moue you O yee Pastors of Christes Churches ye leaders of his flocke and cleere lights of the world that ye would trauaile with vigilant care and diligent admonition to guide Gods people through the Pastures of eternall life c. Therefore they are with earnest zeale to be admonished and exhorted yea to be compelled to keepe themselues in a sure faith reasonable continuance within and vnder the rules of the Fathers In the which worke and trauell wit ye right well that our industrie shall workâ— with you For the which cause we haue also addressed vnto you our messengers which by our authoritie shall with you amend and correct those things that are to be amended and therefore we haue also added such Canonicall constitutions as to vs were thought to be most necessarie Let none iudge this to be presumption that we take vpon vs to amend that which is amisse to cut off that which is superfluous For we reade in the bookes of the Kings how the holy King Iosias trauelled in going about the circuits of his Kingdome correcting and admonishing his people to reduce the whole Kingdome vnto the true religion and seruice of God I speake not this to make my selfe equall to him in holinesse but bycause we ought alwayes to follow the examples of the holy Kings and so much as we can we are bound of necessitie to bring the people to follow a vertuous life to the prayse and glory of our Lord Iesus Christ. And so he entreth into his rules exhortatioÌ„s to the B. and Priests how they should guide their Diocesses and Churches both by reading and preaching and the Bishops to sende foorth the Priests to preach It belongeth saith he vnto your office O ye Pastors guides of Gods churches to sende foorth through out your Dioceses Priests to preach vnto the people and to see that they preach rightly and honestly that ye do not suffer new things that are not canonicall but forged of their owne minde not according to the holy scriptures to be preached vnto the people yea you your own selues preach the things that are true and honest and that lead vnto euerlasting life And instruct ye other that they doe the same c. Yea Alcuinus in his preface of his treatise on the trinitie which he being his Chaplaine dedicated vnto this French king being then also made Emperour maketh the Prince to haue so farre authoritie aboue all other ciuill persons in Ecclesiast matters that he calleth him also a Preacher and sayth that he hath as it were a priestly office in these thinges And least sayth he I should seeme not to helpe and further your preaching of the faith I haue directed and dedicated vnto you this booke thinking no gift so conuenient and worthy to be presented vnto you seeing that all knowe this most plainely that the Prince of the people ought of necessitie to know all things and to preach the things that please God Neither doth it pertaine to any man to know better or mo things than it doth to an Emperour whose doctrin ought to profite all the subiects c. All the faithfull haue great cause to reioyce of your godlines seeing that you haue a Priestly power as it is meete so to be in the preaching of Gods worde a perfect knowledge in the Catholike faith and a most holy deuotion to mens saluation This authoritie and interest euen in the chiefest Eccl. matters doth that famous Alcuinus a countriman of our owne acknowledge vnto the Christian Prince And the like doth this Emperours sonne Lewes take vppon him and it was yéelded vnto him both in the Councell that he called at Aquisgraue in Germanie and afterwarde in Italy at Ticinum where hee giuing in charge to the Bishops and Councel to consult among other matters concerning the conuersation of the Bishops the Priestes and other Eccl. persons of their doctrine and preaching to the people of writing out of bookes c. He concludeth I am very much desirous to knowe and couet to reforme them according to Gods will and your holy aduise in such sort that neither I bee founde reproueable in the sight of God neither you nor the people incurre the wrathfull indignation of God for these things How this may be searched found out brought to perfection that I committe to be treated on by you and so to be declared vnto me The lesser matters which in generall touch all but that touch some in speciall and neede reformation I will that yee make enquirie also of them and make relation thereof vnto me Whereby we sée that these Princeâ— had the chiefe authoritie in those Councelles and both made Ecclesiasticall lawes them selues with the Bishops aduise and counsell and also all the Bishops decrées and determinations depended on the Princes ratifying This then was the order and not that onely which our Brethren here say we read to be obserued by the Christian Kings of France And euen as much do we read to be obserued by the Christian kings of Spayne by whose authoritie the first second third Councell at Brachara were called and many pointes for doctrine and discipline disposed After whom Richaredus commaunded a Councel to be assembled and holden at Toledo where the king sitting among the Bishops deâ—lareth vnto them how he called them together that he might by the common consultation in the Synode repayre and make a newe forme of Eccl. discipline which had bin long time hindred by Arianisme The which impedimeÌ„t sayth he it hath pleased God to put away by my meanes whereupon he exhorteth them to giue God thankes for his so doing and admonisheth them before they enter into the consultation to fast and pray to God that he would vouchsafe to open vnto them a true order of discipline And so after a thrée dayes fast appointed vnto them the Synode beginning to enter into consultation the king commeth in with his Queene and nobles and sitteth amongest them and causeth the confession of his faith which he had written and subscribed with his and the Quéenes hands to be publikely reade before them
the Princes authority that none but the Prince can doe and this prerogatiue be to make such Ecclesiasticall lawes as some of these Princes Lawes were howe doeth not this seruice plainely include the Princes supreme gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes And sith this seruice of the Princes vnto Christ consisteth principally in making lawes for Christ no maruell then if the holy ghost exhort Princes to be wise and to be learned and to vnderstand as the most necessary thing for them to vnderstand the state of the Ecclesiasticall gouernment So that if their Clergie forstowe to doe their duetie yet the Prince by this wisedome learning and vnderstanding might as well be able to giue aduise againe if néede be euen to his Cleargie in the making of many Ecclesiasticall lawes and orders as to take aduise of them As wee sée how diuers of the forenamed Princes did and that by their authoritie with the aduice of wise and learned men both make lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters and haue a supreme gouernment in the maintenance and direction of them Musculus writing on these woordes And now ye kings vnderstande c. The nations and people saith he and much more say I the Clergie are not excluded but Kings Iudges are by name called to bethinke them selues euen for this cause that they are the heads of the nations and of the people conteyning in the nation Clergie and al to whome it principally apperteineth to be subiect vnto the Lord and to giue themselues to bee leaders of the people that are their subiects vnto this true obedience For in two respects it standeth them vpon to be obedient to the Lord first bicause they are subiect to his power as are all other mortall men and then because they are made his peculier Ministers to this purpose that hauing receaued power ouer their subiectes they shoulde both their selues the will of God and cause their subiects to be obedient to it And Marlorate vpon these wordes Serue the Lord in feare noting out of Caluin saith Princes therefore in this place are admonished that they shall then raigne happilie when their power is nothing else but Gods seruice That is to say where in commaunding and bidding they serue not their owne lust but gods will neither vsurpe that tyrannical speech Sic volo sic iubeo stet proratione voluntas Thus wil I haue it thus I bid it be it stands for reasō that it pleaseth me But they say Sie volo sic iubeo quia sic divina volunt as mandat cui soli cuncta subesse decet thus will I haue it thus I bid it be because this is the will of Gods decree He bids it bee to whome what ere he say all creatures will they nill they ought obey Let them also note this place which deny the power of the king secular Magistrat as they cal him to haue ought to do in a cause of a religion For although the kingdom of Christ be in the harts of the beleeuers notwithstanding it apperteineth to the Magistrate to haue a care that the doctrine of the word may be retined in the Church that Idolatry and false worship may bee taken awaye that the Ministers of the church may be commodiously mainteined that the aduersaries may be repressed then to forbid the name of God to be blasphemed to bring to passe that such as leade a godly life may liue in safety but the wicked persons those that are vnquiet may be punished restrained ned This then is the Princes seruice vnto God And is not this as much as to make good Eccl. lawes orders with the aduice counsell of the wise godly learned clergy as hath done and doth her Maiestie But now our brethren after they haue tryed whether they shoulde preuaile by these two aforesaid testimonies least these should not preuail in striuing against the Princes authority in Eccl. matters they adioyn a third vnto them out of the new testament saying And especially it is to be noted where S. Paule commaundeth prayers and supplications to be made for the conuersion of kings vnto the knowledge of the truth and their own saluation that he alleageth this reason that we may leade a quiet and peaceable life in all godlines honesty vnder their protection A godly honest life we may liue vnder enimies of the church persecutors but a peaceable and quiet life in all godlines honesty onely vnder a christian Prince If they do it as paraphrasts by way of some part of exposition they adde these words well vnder their protection But in that they set them downe as the words of the text me thinketh it somwhat ouer bold so to cite the holy scripture or yet as paraphrasts if they so limite the end of our prayers and supplications for Kings Princes which in these three benefites that the Apostle citeth stretcheth a great deale farther than to protection onely For as Dauid and other godly Princes were they may be both protectors and procurers of the same yea the chiefe gouernors and directors in the setting foorth and maintenance of them Neither is S. Paules exhortation to pray for Princes to be restrained onely to the praiers supplications to be made for the conuersion of kings vn the knowledge of the truth but it stretcheth further yea generally as well for those that are conuerted as those that are to be conuerted as well to giue thanks for the one as to pray for the other not onely for their owne saluation but that by their meanes all their subiects likewise may attaine to the way of saluation He reckoneth vp saith Caluine the fruits that spring vnto vs out of a principality that is well ordered the first is a quiet life For the magistrats are armed with the sword to kepe vs in peace Except they should beate downe the audaciousnes of wicked men al things would be ful of robberies slaughters c. The second fruit is the conseruation or saluation that is to wit while the Magistrats indeuour to nourish religion to plant the worship of God to require the reuerence of holy thinges The 3. is the care of publike honestie c. If these 3. things be taken away what is the state of mans life if any care therfore either of publike tranquility or of Godlines or of honesty touch vs let vs remember to haue consideration of them by the ministery of whom so excellent things do come into vs. Thus doth Caluin confesse that the Ministery of the Prince stretcheth as far foorth in procuring vnto vs the benefit of religion as of the other twain therfore he concludeth that we must pray for Princes aswell as much if not much more for this benefite as for the other Yea saith he If any man shall aske whether prayer ought also to bee made for the Kings of whom we receaue no such thing I
say wee are not able so much as to knowe them No nor yet their owne Consistorie gouernors able to knowe them but onely the teachers and preachers of the same to all others And what will they then allowe to vs If the Parliament heare this man speake thus may they not thinke that man speaketh reasons and that there was little reason in troubling them continually with those matters in the Parliament house whereof they may not according to the libertie of that most honorable assemblie speake their mynds in reuerent maner pro contra freely and no man debarred of his speech or iudgement or els the house would better aduise themselues how they permitted such fellowes to come among them or to bring in such billes or bookes among them of which they must be restrained of their libertie both of speech and iudgement Yea what if now another waxing bolder in the Parliament house would tell these faithfull ministers that the matters conteyned in this learned discourse being Ecclesiasticall matters were to be consulted vpon and determined by those that were the Bishops Pastors of the Realme and Church of England and that they had a Conuocation Synodall assemblie among themselues and that they must go to them and be tryed by theÌ„ and bee as well content to submit themselues to the determination of the Bishops and Pastors lawfully and orderly there assembled as they would to haue it tryed in the ParliameÌ„t if they were all such Eccl. persons as were the other And that if they would flee froÌ„ their owne coate Eccl. company to such as were but ciuill and politick persons saue that they were ChristiaÌ„s as other of the people were they should giue an ill example preiudice their matters and make themselues and their bookes to be more mistrusted as not daring to abide the censure of the chifest professors of those matters Tractent fabrilia fabri Ecclesiasticall matters to be tryed by Ecclesiasticall persons And that this is according to their owne â—ositions For who should be able to knowe at least wise who ought better to knowe what order comelinesse and edification requireth according to Gods worde than they that be teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others For it is absurd that they should be taught by such in these small things and much lesse in greater things as ought to learne the trueth of them in all matters And therfore go to theÌ„ and let theÌ„ determine those controuersies If our Bretheren shall heare this tale and their owne words thus duelie returned on themselues may they not then thinke they haue well helped themselues by putting vp these matters to the Parliament And if the Parliament should aunswer them thus should they not aunswer theÌ„ aright But if now they had rather reuoke some of their positions giue the ParliameÌ„t authority to deale herein than to haue them be determined by the Bishops what on the other side would they haue the Parliament do without the authoritie of the Prince Yea how chaunce they put not vp their bookes writings first to her Maiestie mooue her first for if they accounted her Maiestie indeed the supreme gouernor of all persons in al her dominions in all causes so wel Eccl. as temporall would they haue the Parliament decree those things without her Maiestie Or the Parliament wherof her Maiestie is the supreme gouernor to determine these things without any debating of them Or if they should be debated vpoÌ„ who should rather do it theÌ„ the Clergie And haue not al that haue bin assembled together alreadie both the Bishops the whole Conuocation consulted debated and determined alreadie on the matter And if they would haue her Maiestie the Parliament to deale further therein haue they not done that also Hath not her Maiestie ratefied and authorized al their articles that the Conuocation agreed vpon And hath not the whole Parliament also approued allowed so ratefied and confirmed al the Communion booke besides the acknowledgement of her Maiesties supremacie all the articles agréed and decréed vpon all or the most or chéefest of the lawes and orders Eccl. now standing in force and established amongst vs And would they haue them reuoke cancell all that they haue doone in these matters or what else would they haue the Parliament herein to doo If they offer to dispute of these matters either before the whole Parliament or before anie by the Parliament deputed to heare the disputation betwéene vs of these controuersies doo they hope to dispute better and with more deliberat iudgement of that they shall saie ex tempore than that they haue with aduisement written or can write thereon or that we can dispute woorse or not so well as they persuade themselues they can Or doo they thinke as Aeschines said Quid si ipsam belluam andissetis they shall better persuade and mooue the hearers of them more by their liuelie spéeches than by their learned writings and so win it that waies Verelie wée refuse no waie what it shall please our most gratious souereigne and hir most honorable counsell or the high court of Parliament to appoint if that would serue the turne for anie further triall of renewing neuer so often these matters by disputing and calling them in question againe and againe for God be praised in so good a cause we néed not feare the euent they that could so win the garland let them weare it But we maie easilie sée before the disputation shall begin that all this would not serue their turne in these controuersies which the word of God hath not expreslie decided but in generalitie referred to these thrée heads comlinesse order aedification Who shall iudge and determine of our disputation they haue before hand debarred the prince and all that are not teachers and preachers and both the parties in controuersie are teachers and preachers and they saie it were no reason that we being the parties in controuersie on the one side though we be teachers and preachers should be determiners iudges what is comlinesse order and edifieng in these things and maie not we saie the same to them againe that they being also parties in controuersie on the other side though they be teachers and preachers it is no reason that they should be determiners and iudges what is comlinesse order and aedifieng in these things and when shall then these matters be iudged and determined Except we would yéeld to them or they would yéeld to vs or both to some other as to hir maiesty and the ParliameÌ„t But if they shall so doo they should conuince themselues before hand that the forme is vntrue and false which they haue alredie before hand not onlie auowed to be true but so determined alredie and so before hand peremptorily prescribed both to vs and to the Parliament to the Quéens maiestie also that we must all yéeld of
Ecclesiast matters Difference betweene the Prince and his gov and the 4. Tetrarcks Directing gouâ—rning What our brethren meane by directing The Prince called supr gover in a bare title If the prince be indeed the supreme Gouernour then must our brethreÌ„ submitte them-selues to the gouernement established The worde Supreame The Princessupreme gov sclan The iniurie offered to the Prince in the last place Our breth captious sclaunder of the Princes supreame gouermeÌ„t A sclaunderoussurmise of the Christian Prince Things not to be measured by seeming Some regiment of the Church dependeth on the Princes supream gouernement A sclanderous myste The eyes of the ignorant dazeled with this myste The casting foorth of such false suspitions is not wel done The terme of ciuil Magistrate How farre our breth denie or graunt this sclaunder Her Ma. claimeth no such absolute power The learned discourse Page 8. Bridges The Princes auth in indifferent matters Indifferent matters referred to the Princes disposition Princes couÌ„sellers to giue aduise The Princes authoritie in disposing indifferent matters Our bretherens motion of this point Our breth answere The reasons of their answere The breaking off the further answere till hereafter The weighing of our brethrens answere How far our bretheren grauÌ„t to the Princes disposing indifferent matters Our brethren grauÌ„t it and yet finde faulte with them that grauÌ„t it Who are these not indifferent iudges Mistaking indifferent for not indifferent The Princes right heereby not preiudiced The Prince slandered Her maiest right and dooings vnworthilie defaced The ciuill magistrate The subiects accusatioÌ„ of the Prince The heighnousnesse of this slander â—ot to be an indifferent iudge The cheefest pointâ— of a Iudges office The dangâ—r of this accusation The Prince sclandered The Prince directlie accused so wel as others in authoritie The greeuousnesse of our brethoffence in this slander The Prince Slandered Inconsiderate zeale Lessening the cause dooth aggrauate the faulte This accusation reacheth further then we accuse the Pope It helpeth not that heâ— Maiestie is not by name accused The Prince with others sclandered Our bretherens accusation of others with the Prince Where in these others are accused The Princes clearing not to dispose these matters all alone Whether the faulte be in these others Rebels practise These otherâ— giue the Prince no absolute power c. These others feare God These others intrude not themselues into the office of iudging These others take not the disposing to themselues but giue it to the Prince Both these others and the Prince cleered How indifferentlie these others are thus accused for these indifferent matters The further parts of this accusation Whether things lawfullie determined are not so of the subiects to be holden inuiolablâ—e How farre they are further to be inquired vpon The calling things determined into further questioâ— â—he conclusion of all this accusation How this toucheth all politike matters How daâ—gerouslie this accusation reacheth from indifferent matters in eccle causes to all politike matters The learned discourse Page 9. and 10. Bridges To beginne with the Princes author needfull VVhether it be needefull to beginne with the Princes authoritie Needefull necessarie conuenienâ— Good order of teaching The beginning with the Princes treatise agreeable to good order of teaching The order of our brethren in placing their Tetrarkes The argument to put backe the Princes treatise Our bretherens strife for the first place The argument to put backe the treatise of the Princes authoritie The argument A Learned discourse The hurt of too much affection The argument a priore Our bretherens arg frâ— senioritie Our bretherens conclusion not in question The argument à Priore A thing is saide to be before another in diuers senses Former in time inferreth not former in order much lesse in honour Former in time Examples of the later in time former in order Former in honour not alwaies former in order Former in dignitie The Papists argument à pâ—iore for traditions The propositioÌ„ vntrue The Churches regiment bettered by Christian princes The Churches regiment c. The healps that Our Bretheren graunt the Churche receyveth by the ChristiaÌ„ Prince Our bretheren straye from the question by them sâ—lues propounded The diffeâ—ence of the Churches â—â—rfeâ—â—ion in regiment The Anabaptistes arguments confuted The state of the time differing the argument faileth for the regimeÌ„t Difference of peculiar regiment for a special time ordinary regiment to coÌ„tinue It is not meete our BrethreÌ„ shoulde vse the same Argum that the Ana-Baptists doâ— against Princes Gellius Snecanus de Magistratu The Ciuill Magistrate hath euer from the beginning bin ioyned with the Eccl. ministery The Testimonies Rom 12. 1. Cor. 12. for Rulers serue aswel to the Magist. as to the Eccl. gouernours The ciuill Eccles. power alwaies ioyned in the Church Gellius confutation of our bretherens argumentes Our neighbours state commended before so much by our bretheren see how it is trobled with the Anabaptists Christian Princes froÌ„ the beginning The state of the old Testament and new all one Of the extraordinary power of punishing where they wanted the ordinary The Anabaptists obiection Christian Princes in the Apost times The vntruth of our brethrens asseâ—tion that there were no Magist. in Christs his Apostles times One the same ordinaunce in both Testa for Magist. The fallatioÌ„ and the aunswer the reto Distinction between the ordinance of God the vice of men The necessitie of a Magistâ—ate among Châ—â—stians A Church without magistracy neuer seene The godlye haue neede of the Mag Rather no common-wealth without a christian Magistrate then a Magist excluded c. The Magist. office necessary to the Church Certaine of the Proph. Apostles exercised also the office of the Magistrate Why God distinguished these Offices Pag. 599. The exaÌ„ple of Christian Magistrats in Christs the Apost times Our Bretherens exception of Emperours Christiaâ— Princes froÌ„ the beginning The Magist. lost no authoritie by professing Christianity Actes 25. The Ch. Regim more happy where Christ. Princes are The Churches state Our bretherens harde speeches of Christian Princes Paules wish of Christian Princes The Churches perfection and most blessed state 2. Pat. 2. The Church in better state vnder Christian Princes theÌ„ c. To great vnthankfulnes towards her Maiestie Her Maiest fauour of the Gospell How her Maiestie vnder pretence of commendation is discommeÌ„ded The primitiue state Good Princes a great blessing c. ill Princeâ— a great curse of God Isai. 49.23 How God can turne his curse to a blessing How the Primitiue state was blessed and yet pitifull No such Eccl. Gouernours in the Apostles times as our Brethren pretâ—nd What the Gouernourâ— were mentioned 1. Cor. 12. 1. Cor. 6. The Corinthians had no ordinarie consistorie of eccle Gouernors among theÌ„ We hauing Christian Princes are not bound to such Iudges as the Corinth did choose The danger of imitating the Primitiue Churches regiment heere in Caution in mutation CautioÌ„ in imitating examples or prescribing
what nuÌ„ber they were why those Elders had that number The preceps the prâ—ctise of this Seniory The Leuites with their offices The matters wherin the Elders gouernors dealt * Leuirationis The vniuersall assembly of the Tribes and families Iosues orders for all these Elders * Expeditionem The proces of the story Iud. 19.20 The necessity of a king or one cheefe Gouernour The beginning of these elders corruption The Elders flattery of the people The Concion of the elders Our Brethr. defacing the state of a king Carolus Sigonius de rep Haebrae orum lib. 6. Cap. 2. The Iewes Councels Three â—â—ateâ— of the Iewes then 3. kinds of Conciouâ— Sigonius of the Iewes Senates Three kinds of the Iewes Senates Our Br. will be Seniors of the highest sort The Elders in the time of the kings The Elders since the captiui tie Sigonius The Kinges authority besides the Senate Cap. 5. The Synedrion at Ierusalem Cap. 6. What elders the Iudges of the cities were What princes the Elders were inferior to the SynedrioÌ„ Elders The Elders in the time of Iosaphat These Elderships restored after the captiuitie FroÌ„ whence the Synedrian Elders wer chosen Petrus Galatinus of the processe in the courtes of iudgment Petrus Galaâ—tnus collection of the Thalmudists concerning the Sanedrin * occidere The authoritie of the Synedrian Elders The Elders chosen with imposition of hands The power of the Sanedrin diminished in Christes time They lost their place dignitie after their fals iudging of Christ. The Romanes destruction of these Elders Gods ordinaunce Deut. 17. of these Elders power in iudgement Iosephus Iosephus li. 2. ad Appionem Philo. li. 3. de vita Mosis What manner of persons the Elders were in the Sanedrin The power of the preests in the Sanedrin The order and processe in the Sanedrin The appealants accusation The foâ—me of the accusation in Ieremy and of his acquitall The formâ— of the Synedrion in coÌ„demning Christ. Bertramsâ— confirmation of these thinges â—ert de politia Iudaica ca. 10. pag. 56 The Leuites were the gouernors in the Iewes Senats The matters that the Leuiâ—es iudged Bertram 1. Chro. 26.29 How Dauid distributed the gouernments and bounds of the Leuites Seniories Solomon maintained herein Dauids orders Iosaphats restoring â—he Iewes Seniories 2. Chro. 19. * Ad Liâ—â—m The Synedrion The diuerâ— respect of Eccl. ciuil in one and the same cause The great principality of these Elders Ierem. 2. Ieremie acquitted by those Elders Bertrams 2. example of those Elders power Ierem. 36. Bertrams 3. example Ier. 37. 38. The Elders superiour to the king The state of the tenne tribes The state of the Iewes regiment after the captiuity The speciall time of the Elders gouernment The auth of Nehemias Iosephus antiq Iud. li. 7 cap. The high Bishops authoritie 1. Mach. 12.6 The mixt estate of the Iewes common weale Gabinius erecting of mo Synedrins The SynedrioÌ„ Elders slain by Herod Our Br. assertioÌ„ of the Iewes Synedrion alters al the states in Christendome and bindes vs to the IuÌ„diciall Lawe Our Br. pretence vnder the name of eccl regiment driue at the ciuill regiment Chytreus of the Synedrion When all is done our Br. Elders that are goueâ—nors and notteachers are here also excluded except they will bee Princes Beza in confess Christ. cap. 5. Art 32. Danaetus in Iâ—ag Christ. 3. part cap. 10 Danaeus Confession for the difference of the Iewes SynedrioÌ„ our Presbyteries for gouernmeÌ„t of ciuil causes Chytraeus in Deut. 17. titulo de Iudicijs Three kindes of iudgements among the Iewes The iâ—dgemeÌ„t Triumuiral of thâ— 3. Elders The little Synedrion of 23. The great Synedrion of 70. Chytreus resemblance of the chief Senate in Germanie to the Sanedâ—in The elders of the new Testament How moderatelie Chytreus alludeth on Christes words Mat. 5. to our Senates Our Breth peremptory wresting of Christes words The learned disc pag. 88. Bridges The vse of the name Elder Christe alluded not to the Iews Sanedrin or Presbytery mencioned in the newe Testament By the name Church is not meant Senate Caluinus in 1. Tim. 4.14 Bezaes testimonie that by those elders were meant onely the Ministers of the word Our Br. coÌ„clusion of these Elders Bezaes nip of Castalion for the terme Senate The Presbyteries of the Iewes Luc. 22. Act. 20. Our Brethr. chiefe euidence for their Eldership howe weake it is The power of the keies The learned Dis. Bridges The sentences of christ Mat. 18. ver 19. and 20. not to be restrained to a Consistorie Brentius on Math. 18. Brentiuâ— in Math. 18. How these words Die ecclesiae haue ben abused A small assemblie wâ—ting a ciuile Magistrate The occasioÌ„ of Christes sentence That this rule of Chr. serueth onlie among priuate meÌ„ This senteÌ„ce cannot be vnderstood of hainous sinnes Brentius The Incestuous Corinthian The last remedy is to tell the ordinary magistrate and not to constitute an Eccl. Senate Excommunication A priuate Ecclesiasticall excommunication To whome the proper Eccl. exc doth pertaine Two kindes of Exc. ciuiâ— and Eccl. Cal in Mat. 18. The ministery of the powre of the worde pertaineth to the Minister in the expounding the worde Cal. in Mat. 18. The Minist are publishers of Gods word and setters foorth of his iudgementes How the froward are punished the repentaÌ„t receiued by them that haue the word of God Aretius 2. parte problem Tit. de Excom Ciuil and Eccl. Exc. Syntagma Tit. de clauibus The definition of the Eccl. binding The definition of the Eccl. absoluing The censure of Exc. renued by Christ. Mat. 16. Iohn 20. Tertul. In Apolog. cont Gent. cap. 39. Ext. in the Eccl. history Wherein Victors exc was reprooued What Exc. by Victor was allowed Eusebius li. 6. cap. 25. The Exc. of Philip the Emperour Theodosius of Excom Theodoreâ—us li. 5. cap. 17. Cyprianus vt supâ—a Iunii ecclesiasticus cap. 3. Hierom. in Math. 16. August of excom Aug. ad Auxilium epistola 75. Math. 16. Exech 18. S. Aug. erâ—or in the Infants dying without baptisme Iames. 1. What S. Aug. dissaloweth in this B Exc. Chrysost. Homil. 2. de Dauide Saule How Chrysost woulde Excom the contemners of the word Chrysost. of Excom Chrysost. in Homil. 70. homil 4. in Hebr. 2. The Praesidents and Elders of whome Chrysost. speaketh Chrysost. â—hreat againe to Excom Matst 18. The B. seperate authoritie in excom The excommunicator such a person as may teach Melancthon Kemnitius in exam Trident. Conâ— To. cap. 6. Melanct. in locis com de regno Christi Melanct. in aâ—not locorum com The Churches power of order Iurisdiction The poweâ— of order The poweâ— of Iurisd Aretius Aretius in locis com parte 2. de excomm The definition of excommunicâ—tion The Minister is the excommunicator and the Church consenteth Cyprianus The Eccl. Senate of Gouernors not teachers reiected The example of Saint Paul 1. Coâ— 5. Cyprian epist. li. 3. epist. 16. 2. Co. 11.29 1. Co. 12 2â— Aretius
of Synods Christes presence The suspicious eueÌ„ts of our Br. Synodes The promise of Christ Mat. 18. Hee descendeth to particular assemblies The learned disc pa. 112. 113. Authority in Synodes Bridges The Pastors authoritie with the Synode The superior authority of calling Councelles The auncieÌ„t Emperors authoritie heerein Determining in Synodes To whomâ— the authoritie â—o determine doth belong The assemblie of the Elders Actes 15. Matter of doctrine of discipline The Elders Act. 15 were Pastorall What the multitude did at the assemblie Who are ment by the multitude The multitudes dealing Acts. 15. Acts. 15.12 Beza in Act. 15.12 Our Br. flat contrarie to Beza The people dealt not iâ— the determining of the controuersy Beza in Act. 15.23 Calu. in Act. 15.22 23. No such Elders gouernors not Teachers as our Br. conceiue Actes 15. The peoples consent and obedience to the Pastors decrees Of whome our Br. make the Synode to consist Foure kind of persons Pastors Elders Teachers men of wisdom c. Necessariâ— Regents Whom they meane here by Elders Deacons mentioned in the Synode Who are meant by the men of Wisedome Iudgement and grauity Necessary Regents in the Synode The order of the Synode Wherefore the Pastors wherefore the whole multitude came together How our Br. confute themselues The â—earing of all mens reasons The disputation Caluine Gods word preuayled Good order obserued The controuersie concluded by Iames his sentence The authoritie of determining How the Synode ioyneth with the Byshop or chiefe Pastor in the determining The bishops prerogatiue and singular authoritie in determining How the Byshop hath his prerogatiue How the prerogatiue was graunted The good order and disorder of Synodes The learned disc pa. 113.114 115. The preeminance of one Bridges Our Brethrens confession of one Pastors preemineÌ„ce aboue the rest VVhat preeminence it was The points conteined in our Brethrens confession of preeminence 1 One ouer the rest 2 In euery assembly 3 It must be so of necessitie 4 To order and to dispose the companie Reason the limitation of the disposing Confusion if it be not thus How contrary this confession is to our Brethrens former assertions The preeminence restrained The consequence of our Brethrens confession Our Brethren beginning to reuoke their former confession What they meane by preeminence of order How there is no preeminence of order in the pastorall ministerie The superioritie of iurisdiction in the authoritie of dignitie Preminence of order How our Brethren denying the lesse conâ—esse the greater The example of Iames. Our BrethreÌ„s prooâ— of a continuing preeminence Iames his continuing preemineÌ„ce At the time when Paule acknowledged Iames his preeminence there was no Synode called Caluinus in Gal. 1. No Synod holden at Ierusalem when Iames notwithstanding continued his preeminence The definition of a Synode Dâ—naeus in Christ. Isagog part 3. lib. 3. cap. 35. The argument following on these examples Continuing preeminence The superioritie of one among the Apostls was not in respect of the Apostleship The prerogatiue of order conteineth a superioritie of dignitie The ordinary assembly in Ierusalem The like standing assemblie at Antiochia The ordinary assembly or companie of many Pastors in some churches The consequence of our BrethreÌ„s graunt The Presidents and Prolocutors The Presidents of the Counsels The Prolocutor calleth not the Counsell The seueral superiorities of Byshops and Archbyshops The superioritie to call the assemblies was before the assemblies were made The supremacy of the Christian Princes ouer Counselles The Princes supremacie Difference of President Prolocutor Howe the Emperors sate in the Councils The Emperors graunt of the Presidentship in the CouÌ„cils Beza in cons. Christ. cap. 5. art 12. The chiefe office of thâ— Christian Magistrate Beza ibid. art 15. The ancient authoritie of the Emperor ouer the CouÌ„cil Bezaes graÌ„t to Chr. Princes more than our Br. 〈◊〉 Archb. superiority Bezaes graÌ„t to Metropolitanes ouer Prouinciall nationall câ—unsels Bezaes allowance of Archbishops and the conditions thereof to be reuoked or retaiâ—ed If Archb. were simply forbid no conditions would help Archb. lawfull by Bezaes confession Bezaes condicions of allowing Archb. Conditions to the Archb. 1 ConditioÌ„ of reparing the Churches ruines How this coÌ„dition is no sufficient debarre against the office of Archb. 2 ConditioÌ„ that no tyrannie be brought into the Church The accepting Archb. with this condition proueth that the office is not tyrannicall The tyrannicall abuse of the Pastors officÄ— The ground of the Metropolitanes is of God Metropolitanes allowed The tyraÌ„nie in Metropolitanes that Beza excepteth against The tying of the holie Ghost to a or person Bezaes 3. coÌ„dition of all things referred to edification This againe prooueth that Metropolitanes edification may be ioyned Our Br. are not the meâ— thaâ— Beza saith he and his are in acknowledging Metâ—opolitanes Danaeus in Christ. Isag 3. part lib. 3. cap. â—8 The calling of Prouincial Councils perteined to Metropolitane B. The cause why the Fr. refoâ—med Churches kept not the olde order The tempering this authoritie How Danaeus alloweth or disalloweth herein ether the ciuill Magistrate or Metropolitane Our Brethr. conclusions The preheminence prerogatiue of order is also of authoâ—itie The tempering of this authoritie The Synods authoritie The incroching of our brethren in â—hese things The danger of this incrocking The learned discourse pa. 115. 116. Bridges The Synods authority in deciding coÌ„trouersies RenocatioÌ„ by inferiors Matters lawfullie decided in councels prouinciall not to be reuoked by inferior persons The determinatioÌ„ by Gods word The obseruations of the ceremoniall lawe were not properlie matters of â—aith doctrine The learned disc pa. 116. 117 Determination of ceremonies Bridges The Synods authority in determining ceremonies Necessarie causes Taking offence and mistaking superstition Bearing with the weake Our Brethr. offence that herein they haue giuen Order comlines and aedification The Synods authoritie Paphnutius his gainsaying the whol councell Particular persons or congregations not to coÌ„trol herein the Synods decreeâ— Our Br. former conclusion Pag. 76 against theÌ„selues The Churches lawfull authoritie not to bee impugned Our Br. owne example Acts. 15. against themselues The Synods commandement for a time The auoiding offences and pollutions The strongers forbearance for the weakers offence 1. Cor. 10. The Pastors knowledge Gal. 4.3 Our Br. calling of the Apostles times the Churches childish age Difference of temporal constitutions The weaknes ceasing or turned to obstinacie The learned disc pa. 117. Bridges The Prouinciall Councels authoritie to determine The knowledge of the teachers and Preachers in order comlinesse and aedification The knowledge of many that are not publike teachers Preachers The reason that makes our Br. think none can knowe these things but teachers preachers The Pastors may bee to seeke in some small thinges How the lâ—ytie may teach the Cleargie The learned disc pa. 117. 118 Bridges All the drift of our Br. conclusion is beere against the Christian Princes authoritie Our Br. words directly ouertâ—row
proper to their Ecclesiasticall functions but to ouer-sée gouerne and direct all Ecclesiasticall persons to doo their duties in all Ecclesiasticall causes and to haue the highest authoritie in the Churche for the ordering disposing and authorizing any order or constitution Ecclesiasticall in indifferent matters notwithstanding any assertion reason or proofe in this Learned Discourse as yet alledged to the contrarie And as the Christian Prince hath immediatlie vnder Christe this supreame first and principall authoritie so ought the Christian Prince by as good reason in the treatise of the gouernment of the churches Ecclesiasticall matters to haue had that supreame place which is first and principall and not that supreame place which is last and least of all or rather which is none at all while all Ecclesiasticall matters must be firste distributed among these foure estates and be onelie directed by them But vntill these foure be all serued in their places and orders her Maiestie and all Christian Princes must hold themselues contented with this and in the ende they shall sée further if any more authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters be left vnto them In the meane season let vs now returne whether our Bretheren leade vs to the producing of these foure Tetrarkes what their offices are how necessarie and important they be and what seuerall authoritie or in common is assigned vnto them The second Booke of the Doctor or Teacher The Argument of the second Booke THE second Booke is of their first Tetrarche called the Doctor or Teacher wherein after their resolutions of all the 4. Tetrarches with the effects necessitie thereof with chalenge of the Fathers alteration and the vnhappie successe of our disordered state after their Apologie for their methode of this Learned Discourse they come to their treaty of their Doctors That this D. is the cheefest office in the Church most necessarie and to be had in euery congregatioÌ„ And of their name institution office whether they be a seuerall office necessarilie distinguished from Pastors whether the Apostles words Rom. 12.1 Cor. 12. Eph. 4. do infer such distinction of office the interpretation of the ancient fathers and of the late writers on these places for this question especiallie whether the Doctors or Teachers must onelie teach true doctrine and confute false or may with their teaching ioine exhortation and application to their hearers Whether there were euer in the Olde Testament or in the New any suche Doctors as our Bretheren suppose with the examination of the examples they alleage What was the maner of the Doctors and Catechisers teaching in the Primitiue and auncient churches and what now in the churches reformed LET vs therfore returne to those offices of Ecclesiasticall Regiment which remaine to be exercised in the Churche of God being instituted and ordeined by Christe himselfe which before wee haue prooued out of the Scriptures to be onelie these Doctors Pastors Gouernors and Deacons whereof some apperteine to doctrine some to gouernement and discipline The dutie of Doctors and Pastors is cheefelie to teache and instruct the people of God in all things that God hath appointed them to learne The office of Elders and Deacons is to prouide that good order and discipline be obserued in the Churche IN this returne to these foure offices of Ecclesiasticall regiment these Learned Discoursers firste set downe as a cleare rase these resolutions That onelie thâ—se Doctors Pastors Gouernours and Deacons doo remaine to bee exercised in the Churche of God That these foure offices of Ecclesiasticall regiment be instituted and ordeined by Christe himselfe and that they haue prooued this out of the scriptures Softe a while Brethren let vs returne with you Where I pray you and when and how and out of what places in the scriptures haue yée prooued this It was saide so indéed but not prooued Ye alleaged onelie thrée places Rom. 12. ver 6.1 Cor. 12. ver 28. and Eph. 4. ver 11. But neither haue ye Prooued out of any or all of those testimonies all these foure offices of Ecclesiasticall Regiment neither can ye doo it What these Gouernours were whether the same that Bishops or Pastors and Teachers or your supposed Seniors or any Ecclesiasticall or ciuill officers is not there or in any other place that ye haue yet cited either in the Text of scripture expressed or by any argumeÌ„t that you haue made Prooued Neither haue yée prooued that all these foure Ecclesiasticall offices were instituted and ordeined by Christe himselfe as héere you affirme Neither haue ye prooued that all these foure offices now remaine to be exercised in the Churche of God None of all these things are yet prooued as maye appeare by that we haue séene in all this your Learned Discourse hetherto and by all the places them-selues in the Scriptures And therevpon I put me to the veredict of euerie indifferent Readers iudgement And yet sée how boldlie you dare avowe all this and flatlie say thereon which we haue prooued out of the scriptures where neither the Scriptures which ye haue cited haue it nor yée haue prooued it out of them yea neither with them nor with-out them ye haue prooued it at all Now concerning the distribution of this foure squared gouernement to the which these offices are seuerallie to bee assigned whereas these Learned Discourses saye Whereof some apperteine to doctrine some to gouernement What doo ye héere deuide these foure officers into thrée wardes or into two If ye say into two for the distribution is manifest some to doctrine and some to gouernment discipline and not some to doctrine and to gouernement and some to discipline but the latter two gouernement and discipline not deuiding the same by a seuerall some but by the copulatiue and conioyning them togither gouernement and Discipline we conteyne vnder one of these two seuerall somes Verye well sayde and canne you thus your selues deuide these thinges and conioyne and it must bee holden for a good deuiding and conioyning and can you not bee content with Saint Paules like distribution where he saith Ephes. 4. ver 11. Hee therefore gaue some Apostles and some Prophets and some Euangelists and some Pastors and Teachers The Apostle héere distributeth them by somes as you doo when he comes to this and some to be Pastors he addeth not as an other different office and some to be Teachers but as you doo héere saye some to gouernement and discipline including bothe togither without any further distribution vnder one some bothe apperteining to one office and yet you will solemnelie breake this order of Saint Paule contrarie to your owne order héere of distribution and where he makes but one office in two diuerse wordes you will deuide them into another some and make Pastors one office and Teachers another office by it selfe as that of the Euangelists distinct from the Apostles or from the Prophets But of your reasons why ye thus deuide these things