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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20770	A treatise of the true nature and definition of justifying faith together with a defence of the same, against the answere of N. Baxter. By Iohn Downe B. in Divinity, and sometime fellow of Emanuel C. in Cambridge.; Selections	Downe, John, 1570?-1631.; Baxter, Nathaniel, fl. 1606.; Bayly, Mr., fl. 1635.; Muret, Marc-Antoine, 1526-1585. Institutio puerilis. English.	1635 (1635)	STC 7153; ESTC S109816	240,136	421

that they euer remained more then conquerors And now as they haue left behind them a pretious name among the Saints so wee doubt not but their soules are bound vp in the bundle of life and enioy the blessed making vision of God for euermore Such books of theirs as are come to our hands we esteeme as rich treasures and value them aboue gold Them doe wee search and peruse with all diligence bee it spoken without offence no Papists more Yet can wee not throughout them meet with those terrible Bugbears you so much complain of rather wee wonder how you could misse all those good Angels so frequently appearing in them to comfirme and settle you in your first Faith For I wil bee bold to say notwithstanding all the brags and crakes of that side that the Fathers are ours not yours or if they bee yours in any thing it is in the pettiest and smallest matters for in the maine and great questions controuerted between vs they are expresly for vs and against you as hereafter God willing shall in part appeare Vpon confidence whereof whensoeuer wee were summond and called vnto the Fathers by you wee neuer refused their triall but euer haue beene ready to aduenture all vpon their verdict The chalenge of that famous Prelate Ser. at Pauls Crosse Doctor Iewell Bishop of Salisbury is yet fresh in memory that if any learned man of our aduersaries or if all the learned men that bee aliue be able to bring any one sufficient sentence out of any old Catholicke Doctor or Father or out of any old generall Councell or out of the holy Scriptures of God or any one example of the Primitiue Church whereby it may clearly and plainly be proued that there was any priuate Masse in the whole world at that time for the space of sixe hundred yeares after Christ and so foorth in seuen and twenty seuerall articles hee would bee content to yeeld and to subscribe Reply to Hardings Ans This chalenge as that renowned Bishop in his life-time made good himselfe against his aduersary Master Harding so was it neuer yet retracted by any of vs but hath stoutly beene maintained by sundry succeeding champions Heare one for all That sayth worthy Whitaker Con. Camp tat 5. which Iewell most truly and constantly vttered that day when hee appealed to the antiquity of sixe hundred yeeres and offered vnto you that if you could bring foorth but one sentence cleere and euident out of any Father or Councell he would not refuse to yeeld the victory vnto you the same doe we all professe we all promise the same we will not shrinke from our word Thus you see how wee reiect not the Fathers as you would beare the world in hand but triumph rather in the testimony they giue vs and in our Apologies and Defences alledge them plentifully against you Howbeit neither doe wee nor dare wee make Gods of them or equall them with the holy Apostles as if they were infallible and could not erre Clouen tongues neuer sate vpon them as they did vpon these neither did the Spirit of God so guide and direct their pens but that sometimes they might faile and write amisse Had they had infallibility of iudgement safely might wee build our Faith vpon them but this they vtterly disclaime acknowledging it to bee the peculiar priuiledge of the Apostles And so far are they from making themselues Masters of our Faith that they require vs to iudge and censure of their writings by the Scripture which is the rule of Faith Neither would they haue vs to tie our selues vnto their authority more then they tyed themselues vnto the authority of others but freely to accept or refuse as wee see iust cause Hom. 13. in 2. Cor. I pray and beseech you all saith Chrysostome that leauing this and that mans opinion you will search all these things out of the Scripture In Euseb hist l. 7. c. 24. Let it bee commended saith Dionysius of Alexandria and without enuy assented vnto which is rightly spoken but if any thing bee vnsoundly written let that bee looked into and corrected Epist 62. I know I my selfe saith Hierome esteeme of the Apostles in one sort and of other Writers in another that the first alwayes speake truth and the latter as men doe in some things erre De Trinit l. 3. c. 1. In all my writings saith Saint Augustin I desire not only a godly Reader but also a free corrector yet as I would haue the Reader addicted vnto mee so neither would I haue a corrector addicted to himselfe De lib. arb l. 2. c. 32. And againe I am not bound to the authority of this man meaning Cyprian but I examine his saying by the authority of Scripture and what agreeth therewith I receiue with his commendation what agreeth not by his leaue I refuse And yet againe Epist 111. ad Fortunat. Neither are wee to esteeme the disputations of any men although Catholicke and praise worthy as the Canonicall Scriptures that wee may not sauing the honour which is due to those men dislike and reiect something in their writings if happily wee find them to haue thought otherwise then the truth either by others or our selues through Gods help vnderstood Such am I in the writings of others and such would I haue the vnderstanders of mine to bee Epist 19. ad Hieron Finally I saith the same Saint Augustin confesse vnto your charity that I haue learned to yeeld vnto those books of Scripture alone which now are called Canonicall this reuerence and honor that I most firmely belieue no Author of them to haue erred any thing in writing And if I find any thing in their writings which seemeth contrary to truth I will not sticke to say that either the copie is faulty or the translator apprehended not what is spoken or I vnderstand it not But others I so read that how much soeuer they excell in holynesse and learning I thinke it not therefore true because they thought so but because either by those Canonicall Authors or by probable reason not abhorring from truth they were able to perswade mee Thus the Fathers whose steps if wee tread in and whose counsell if wee follow and not taking vp euery thing vpon trust but examining them by the touchstone of truth I hope wee are rather to bee commended then blamed And reason for neither were the Fathers more then men neither are wee of this age lesse then men And I wonder why we may not iudge of the sayings of those who are but men as well as our selues What haue wee not reasonable soules as well as they are we not endued with the same faculty of vnderstanding and discoursing haue wee not still the same helps both of nature and art which they had Or when they died did the Holy Ghost also giue vp the ghost with them or doth hee deny to assist these latter times with his enlightning grace as hee

vs see what you reioyne hereunto First you say I beg the matter in Question What matter that Historicall Faith is a generall knowledge but neither is that the matter now in Question neither doe I any way beg it For in this Syllogisme the Question is whether Historicall Faith doe iustify of your Question there appeares nor palme nor footstep which yet in the former section against your negatiue I haue proued to bee most true That which you adde if it bee not senselesse is contrary both to your selfe and vnto reason For saying that Historicall Faith is proper and speciall vnto the Elect in the beginning of their iustifying Faith you plainely distinguish it from iustifying Faith which is contrary to what you haue elsewhere said If you still confound them and make Historicall Faith the beginning of Iustifying Faith it is as if you should say the beginning of iustifying Faith is speciall and peculiar vnto the Elect in the beginning of their iustifying Faith which is altogether witlesse and senselesse Lastly to say that Historicall Faith which before was Generall and common as soone as it is conioyned with application and Resting on Christ becomes speciall and peculiar is vtterly void of reason For as Grace superadded vnto Nature in the Elect makes not Nature speciall and peculiar vnto them but that still it remaines common vnto all men so also Historicall Faith by accession of Iustifying Faith or Affiance changeth not its nature and becomes Speciall but as it was euermore continues Generall Generall I say both Obiectiuely as stretching it selfe vnto all supernaturall reuealed verities and Subiectiuely not being appropriated vnto the Elect onely but commonly incident vnto others also Secondly you deny the Minor telling mee plainely that it is ridiculous yea blasphemous to say that Diuels haue Faith or that euer Balaam Iudas or Magus had Faith If I should now temper my inke with some sharper ingredient and in the zeale of my affection say vnto you as the Angell sometime said vnto Satan Iude 9. The Lord rebuke thee it were no more then here you iustly deserue For it is not holy and learned men alone which yet were too impudent but euen the spirit of Wisdome and truth himselfe whom I tremble to speake it you charge with ridiculousnes and blasphemie For doth not the Holy Ghost by Saint Iames in expresse tearmes say The Diuels belieue and tremble and by Saint Luke Then Simon himselfe also belieued Iam. 2.19 Act. 8.13 and did not Balaam prophecying of Christ and Iudas preaching Christ assent vnto those truths wherewith they were illuminated And what Orthodoxe Diuine is there ancient or moderne who falling vpon this question doth not acknowledge that Diuels and Reprobates doe Historically belieue De vnico Bapt. cont Petil. c. 10. Saint Augustine is bold and compareth the Faith of Diuels confessing Christ Wee know thee who thou art euen the Sonne of God with that memorable confession of Peter Thou art the Christ the Sonne of the liuing God This confession saith hee was fruitfull vnto Peter but pernicious vnto the Diuels yet in both not false but true not to bee denied but acknowledged not to bee detested but approued And a little after hauing vouched that of Saint Iames the Diuels belieue and tremble and compared therewith the Faith of those who belieue the truth of God but liue wickedly Behold saith hee Wee haue found out of the Church not onely certaine men but Diuels also confessing the same Faith of one God yet both confirmed by the Apostles rather then denied Of the same iudgement are our latter writers That Faith is attributed to Simon Magus Inst lib. 3. ca. 2. §. 10. saith Caluin We vnderstand not with some that hee fained in words a Faith which was not in his heart but thinke rather that being ouercome by the Maiesty of the Gospell hee did in a sort belieue and acknowledge Christ to be the Author of Life and Saluation Simon saith Beza In Act. 8.13 On the Creed Ans to Rhem. T. in Iam. 2.6 belieued with Historicall Faith Historicall Faith saith Perkins is in the Diuell and his Angels Such a Faith saith Fulke as is in Diuels namely an acknowledging that there is one God and so likewise of all the rest of the Articles of Faith to bee true without trust or confidence in God Finally the whole Church of Auspurg Whereas Saint Iames saith Harm Confess the Diuels belieue and tremble hee speaketh of an Historicall Faith Now this Faith doth not iustifie for the Diuels and the wicked are cunning in the History Which last words I would wish you to note and obserue For if Historicall Faith bee no other then an assent of the Mind vnto the truth of Gods Word then Diuels and Reprobates so assenting yea being cunning in the Story must needs haue Historicall Faith Adde hereunto that if they doe not so much as Historically belieue then the sinnes which they commit against the Gospell are onely sinnes of ignorance and not against knowledge neither can they offend of malice or fall into that vnpardonable sinne which is against the Holy Ghost Mat. 12.32 Neither lastly can any bee said to haue made shipwracke of Faith which yet the Scripture saith some haue done 1 Tim. 1.19 vnlesse perhaps you will say a man may make shipwracke of that which hee neuer had So that now if I haue spoken ridiculously and blasphemously as you say you see what Schoolemasters haue deceiued me and vpon what reasons I haue been drawne into this folly and impiety or rather the world sees what folly it is in you thus against all reason to impute blasphemy and ridiculousnesse vnto the truth of God and the most glorious preachers and defenders thereof Yet Caluin you say telleth mee it is ridiculous to say that Diuels haue Faith and it is plaine that this whole disputation Iam. 2. is not about Faith But is it possible that Caluin should striue against the torrent of so maine authority or like the Philosopher of whom Aristotle speaketh forget his owne voice and vnsay that which he had formerly said Certainly if you wil giue him leaue to bee the interpreter of his owne meaning you shall find hee doth not For when hee denieth that Diuels haue Faith and that Saint Iames there disputeth of Faith hee vnderstandeth not Faith indefinitely but particularly iustifying Faith This is euident by his annotation on the twentieth verse In Iam. 2.20 Here saith hee is no disputation of the cause of Iustification whereby what other can hee meane then Iustifying Faith And when hee saith the dispute is not about Faith hee addeth forthwith but of a vulgar knowledge which conioyneth a man to God no more then the sight of the Sunne lifts him to Heauen Now what is that Faith which vnites vs vnto God but onely Iustifying Faith and what is this vulgar knowledge other then Historicall Faith by which the eye of the mind sees diuine truth

which they are iustified and so come to eternall life But what say I vnto the Minor deliuered in other tearmes thus Knowledge of Christ apprehendeth eternall life I say first it is not the same Proposition because the tearmes are changed neither are they equipollent Secondly I grant it to bee true whether you meane by knowledge Dogmaticall Faith or Particular assurance for by the one doe we apprehend that there is an eternall life by the other that wee haue speciall interest in it Well then if it apprehendeth eternall life doth it not follow that therefore also it apprehendeth iustification No by no meanes for as wee haue aboue demonstrated it is not necessary that that which apprehendeth the latter should apprehend the former also And yet though I disallow the consequence the consequent I readily yeeld you that Particular knowledge apprehendeth iustification for so haue wee defined Faith of promise to be a perswasion or assurance that the promise of God made in Christ to wit iustification remission of sinnes adoption regeneration finally election it selfe and eternall saluation doe particularly pertaine vnto mee and are mine What gather you now of this Ergo say you it is iustifying Faith How so Because whatsoeuer apprehendeth iustification is iustifying Faith Nay contrarily whatsoeuer apprehendeth iustification it not iustifying Faith for apprehension followeth iustification no man apprehending himselfe to bee iustified vntill hee be iustified but Iustifying Faith is in nature before iustification that being the cause and this the effect And therefore vnlesse you will say that that which followeth is that which goeth before you cannot say that that which apprehendeth iustification is that which iustifieth To conclude therefore neither is Faith knowledge nor knowledge Faith but particular knowledge for ought you haue yet said or can say commeth in time after Faith But whereas finally you inferre that Faith is knowledge in the beginning knowledge in proceeding knowledge in the end besides that the foundation vpon which it is grounded is vntrue it is cleane contrary also to that which erewhile you affirmed that Faith is but one compounded of my three nice distinctions the first being the beginning the second the progresse the third the end For the third is Faith of Person and in the Will and is by your confession there the end of Faith yet here you say faith is knowledge in the end which things how they can stand together I see not vnlesse you will say that knowledge is in the Will and so confound the faculties and operations of the soule N. B. In Ioh. 1. Ep. c. 5. to 13. The place of Saint Iohn by you cited to proue your Minor in your argument maketh nothing for you because the Apostle speaketh of their increase of knowledge and not of the originall begetting of knowledge and so saith M. Caluin I. D. The text in the clearest tearmes that may bee distinguisheth betweene Belieuing and knowing and vnto that giueth the priority before this but your glosse confoundeth their natures and saith that the Apostle here speaketh onely of increase of knowledge Wo to the glosse that corrupteth the text for if this bee S. Iohns meaning it is as if hee should say I write vnto you that know that yee are iustified haue eternall life that yee may increase in knowing that yee haue eternall life and that yee may know yee are iustified and haue eternall life which how vnworthy it is the pen of an Apostle euery one easily seeth But Caluin you say interpreteth the place as you doe Bee it so yet is it not the name of Caluin how venerable soeuer that may sway this matter For seeing I professe to differ from him in the definition of Iustifying Faith hee defining it by knowledge I by Affiance you may not thinke it vnreasonable if in this point and the explication of such scriptures as may seeme to concerne it I desire rather to bee pressed with his reasons then borne downe with his authority But what saith Caluin Because there ought to bee dayly proceedings in Faith therefore he writes to them that belieue already that they may more firmely and certainly belieue Whereunto I willingly assent if you apply it as Beza in his annotations doth vnto the last clause of the verse and that yee may belieue for then the meaning without forcing or constraining the words will bee as if hee should say I write vnto you that belieue that belieuing yee may know yee haue eternall life knowing the same may constantly perseuere and proceed on in Belieuing For as the clouds poure downe raine to moisten the earth and the earth moistned sendeth vp vapours againe to make clouds so likewise Faith begets Assurance and Assurance being gotten doth againe confirme and strengthen faith And thus doe the Century-writers expound this place Cent. 1. l. 2. c. 4. p. 276. gathering from it that Cetainty of Saluation is an Effect of Faith and so euidently distinguishing knowledge from Faith Treatise 3. Arg. That which in nature comes after iustification cannot bee iustifying Faith This appeares because Faith is the Efficient Instrumentall cause of Iustification and euery Efficient by the rule of Logicke is in nature before the Effect But this knowledge or assurance is in nature after Iustification Ergo it is not Faith N. B. Your Minor is very false and so proued by my former arguments For particular knowledge and assurance of our saluation is not in nature after Faith but is Faith and wholy infused by the Spirit of God and begotten by hearing of the Word preached and commeth to act by degrees according to the measure of grace giuen of God For it is in Habitu sometime not in actu Faith habituall in power actuall in the deed of belieuing as when one sleepeth his beliefe is not in actu and yet hee liueth vnto God by his faith which liueth powerfully in him though not actually I. D. The Maior of my Syllogisme is vndeniable because as I haue said Faith is the cause of iustification For as D. Fulke saith vnto Bristow excluding it from Efficient causes Reioinder to Bristow p. 172. Seeing Scripture often affirmeth that God worketh in vs by Faith faith must needs be an instrumentall efficient when you haue said all that you can except you will teach vs new Grammar and Logicke The Minor therefore you say is very false and so proued by your former arguments But those arguments are already answered and thus I proue the Minor For as for the rest of your idle and wilde talke touching the infusion begetting degrees habit act of Faith I willingly passe ouer lest pursuing you in this course I seeme to run riot and play the wanton with you Treatise The truth of a Proposition is alwayes in nature before the knowledge of the truth for Propositions are not therefore true because they are knowne so but they are first true and knowne so Therefore this Proposition I know I am iustified spoken

the mercie of God I. D. The Minor which in the former section you denied namely that Faith goes before iustification and Assurance followes after in my Treatise I thus proued because Iustification is promised vpon condition of Belieuing and seeing in Conditionall promises there can bee no Assurāce of the thing promised before the performāce of the Condition therfore in this promise we must Belieue before we can be iustified and be iustified before we can be assured we are iustified Now to this you say it is rather an encouragement then a Promise vpon condition as if it were impossible that Promise vpon condition might bee an encouragement Whereas me thinkes a Generall doth greatly encourage his Souldiers when he promiseth vnto them preferment and reward vpon condition of some peece of seruice well performed 1 Cron. 11.6 And Ioab peraduenture would not haue beene so forward and venturous in the battell vnlesse Dauid had promised the office of chiefe Captaine vpon condition of smiting the Iebusites But you haue reasons for your saying more then a good many for here like another Tertullian euery word almost you speake is a Demonstration First all the Church of God in all ages affirmeth with you and yet as shall plentifully appeare in the next Section the Church of God neuer vnderstood but that Remission of sinnes was promised vpon condition of Faith But as Anaxagoras when hee was driuen to his shifts and could not finde out the reason of some things was wont to say it was the doing of Nous euen so when you haue boldly affirmed that which you can by no meanes proue it is your manner desperately to auouch that it is the saying of the Church Secondly you say this speech Belieue and thy sinnes shall bee forgiuen thee is all one with this Thy sinnes bee forgiuen thee therefore bee of good comfort Which happily wee may thinke not to be altogether so witlesse if also you can perswade vs that a Physician saying vnto his Patient Vse carefully the course of Phisicke I shall prescribe vnto you and you shall surely recouer of your sicknesse meaneth thereby no other then as if hee should say Bee of good cheere for thou art already recouered of thy sicknesse Lastly by this meanes you say both the former and the latter to wit Forgiuenesse of sinnes and Beliefe may bee ascribed to the mercy of God As if Promise of Remission of sinnes vpon condition of Faith were any way derogatory vnto the Mercy of God but that both the one and the other may this notwithstanding bee ascribed thereunto For if when God out of his soueraigne authority commaundeth to Belieue it bee neuerthelesse of his grace that wee can and doe Belieue according to that of S. Augustin Giue what thou commandest and command what thou wilt why when out of his mercy hee promiseth Forgiuenesse if we doe Belieue should it not bee ascribed vnto the same his mercy that we doe performe the condition and Belieue But who knowes the salt that is in you Eupolis You are the onely Pericles of this age Suada sits vpon your lips and you alone leaue a sting behind you For had it not been for this threefold cord of yours I could neuer so easily haue been drawne from this truth N. B. Farthermore where you bring for the confirmation of your Minor to proue Iustification to bee conditionall with the Papists this place of Math. cap. 9. v. 2. M. Downes falshood in citing construing and adding to the Scripture 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Confide fili remissa sunt tibi peccata tua Bee of good comfort Sonne thy sinnes bee forgiuen thee you wrest it first to tell vs that Christ said to him Thy sinnes be forgiuen thee if thou wilt bee of good comfort which is false and no part of Christs meaning but rather the contrary bidding the man sicke of the Palsie be of good comfort because his sinnes being the cause of his disease were forgiuen him Tom. 9. in Mat. In Mat. c. 9. This could Saint Hierome haue told you yea Chrysostome and Master Caluin Erasmus and the Greeke Scholiast But what may wee expect will bee the sequell of this if you bee not hindred in your course Well you haue a mind to doe mischiefe but you want power as spake Plutarch to one Harm in Mat. 9. Archidamus Zeuxidis filius in Plut. M. Downe falsly translating the Greeke text and so I Hope shall The second point which I challenge you in is false translating of the Greeke text contrary to the words themselues and all the world for 1600. yeares You translate Mat. 9. v. 2. Crede fili remittentur tibi peccata tua Sonne belieue and then thy sinnes shall bee forgiuen thee when you should haue said with Saint Hierome Ambrose Beda Caluin Beza Erasm and the Church of England Sonne bee of good comfort thy sinnes bee already forgiuen thee The Greeke word can by no meanes signifie to Belieue but rather to bee confident or Bold to trust to and not to Belieue in as Opibus confidere Cicero to trust to his riches not to belieue in his riches to assure my selfe that they shall benefit mee not to belieue in them as my God to saue mee Beside the Greeke word to Belieue is farre off another name and nature Againe by what authority doe you translate Thy sinnes shall bee forgiuen thee when you should say thy sinnes are forgiuen thee Haue you any commission in contemptum omnium Grammaticorum to change tenses also as you take vpon you vnder pretence of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to coine Distinctions But I may easily spie your drift you would needs parget your rotten cause and miserable Minor with this vntempered morter Well all the Schollers in our countrey will thinke the worse of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as long as they liue for this tricke M. Downe addeth to the Scripture But what intolerable impudency is this and beyond all the rest to adde the word or coniunction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and to the Scripture saying by your commission 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Belieue Sonne and then thy sinnes shall be forgiuen thee Quite contrary is this to your knowledge and conscience Apoc. 22. Bethinke you therefore what a fearefull iudgement you incurre and craue mercy at the hand of God while you haue time confesse your errour and cancell your commission so shall you haue the Church your Mother and her Children your Brethren and friends I. D. That which in the former section you spake but lispingly here you deliuer more plainely and articularly for there you say it is rather an encouragement but now you affirme peremptorily they are none but Papists that hold Iustification to bee conditionall to such extremities straits am I driuen that I am faine to borrow aide and assistance of the common aduersary But if I bee mistaken herein I hope I shall the more easily find pardon because

it might bee a generall custome but not a generall opinion and so indeed some of your men turne it off and the Councell of Trent saith that as those holy Fathers had probable cause of their doing according to the reason of the time so without controuersie must we belieue that they did it not vpon necessity of saluation But first this is a question not of Faith but of Fact namely what those Fathers did belieue in this point and in a matter of Fact your selues confesse a Councell may bee deceiued Secondly the sayings aboue related are so plaine and expresse as none can bee more so that it must needs bee extreme madnesse to yeeld vnto this consequent the Councell of Trent that is a few men of yesterday say so and therefore though Pope Innocent and Augustin and other of the ancient Fathers say the contrary of themselues yet must wee not belieue them Thirdly the very Text of Scripture which they alledged to proue their opinion vnderstanding it of the Eucharist as they did manifestly argues they held a necessity of it to Infants Vnlesse you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drinke his blood yee shall not haue life in you Lastly you are to know that the Fathers brought in this of the Eucharist against the Pelagians to proue the necessity of Baptisme thus None can bee saued without partaking of the holy Communion None may partake of the holy Commumunion except hee bee Baptized Ergo none can bee saued except hee bee Baptized The Assumption they tooke for granted the Maior they warranted by the aforesaid text So that the Conclusion must of necessity fall to the ground and Baptisme cannot bee necessary vnlesse the Eucharist also bee necessary And thus haue I discharged this obligation also and haue made good my promise vnto you as touching this point From which together with the other particulars aboue mentioned I conclude that the Fathers haue generally erred and consequently that Consent of Fathers cannot bee a ground of Faith vnlesse you will consent with them in error Which will yet further appeare if you will please to take notice that your own men orderly reiect them notwithstanding their Consent For why should they doe thus after so many vaunts and brags if they thought the more part of them could not erre Yet that so they doe Loc. l. 7. c. 1. n. 1. Rom. 5. learne by these few examples Canus saith that from that place of the Apostle In whom haue all sinned all the holy Fathers with one mouth affirme the Blessed Virgin to haue beene conceiued in Originall sinne as namely Chrysostome Eusebius Remigius Ambrose Augustin Bernard Bede Anselme Erardus Martyr S. Antony Bonauenture Aquinas Vincentius Damascenus Hugo de sancto Victore Yet saith hee though there were no Author to stand against them the argument drawne from consent of all the Fathers is but weake and the contrary opinion is more probably and piously defended Salmeron also beeing hardly beset with the same army of Fathers in the same point quits himselfe like a man thus In Rom. 5. d. 51. To this multitude of Doctors we oppose another multitude to driue out one naile with another his meaning is the learned men of these latter times against the Ancient Fathers Michael Medina confesseth that Hierome Ambrose De Sacr. hom orig l. 1. c. 5. Augustin Sedulius Primasius Chrysostome Theodoret Occumenius and Theophylact to whom hee might haue added diuers others that I say they held there was no difference betweene a Presbyter and a Bishop yet hee reiecteth it as the opinion of the Heretike Aërius That Christ is the true Shepheard mentioned in the tenth of Iohn Augustin Chrysostome Hierome Caesarius Cyril Theodoret Aponius Gregorius Rom. Anastasius Sinaita Prosper Theophylact Euthymius Rupertus Cyprian Leontius Eucherius Lugd. Bede Bernard Anselme Cantear Liranus and many others affirme yet Antid Huang in Ioh. 10. saith Stapleton the Pope is vnderstood thereby All the Ancient Fathers in a manner as Gregory Nazianzen Origen Athanasius the Author of the imperfect worke on Mathew Saint Ambrose Antiq. Iud. l. 3. c. 4. De Decal de legg spec Saint Hierome and generally all the ancient Hebrewes as both Iosephus and Philo testifie diuided the Decalogue as wee doe making the first table to consist of foure Commandements concerning Gods worship and that against Images to bee the second your Church notwithstanding to couer her spirituall fornications and the sacrilegious razing of that Commandement out of your Prayer-books and Catechismes goes against all antiquity diuiding the first table onely into three Commandements Quaest 71. in Exod. and cutting the tenth into two hauing no other colour for it but onely one Augustins single authority To bee breefe In the exposition of this verse In Psal 31. saith Tolet nor the Greeks nor the Latins nor they who follow the Hebrewes seeme to mee to speake perfectly So almost all expound In Mat. 19.11 In Mat. 16.18 saith Maldonat with whom I cannot agree And againe The meaning of these words of Christ seemes not to bee that which all bring whom I remember to haue read except Hilary And yet againe The opinions of the Fathers touching this sentence are diuerse but to speake freely I rest in none of them In Mat. 11.11 13. In Ioh. 6.62 And All the Fathers almost so expound but their interpretation seemeth not to me fit enough And lastly Thus I expound it and although I haue no Author for this exposition yet I approue it rather then that of Augustin and the rest albeit most probable because if more crosseth the meaning of the Caluinists Which last clause I would pray you well to consider for by it not Consent of Fathers but crossing of Caluinists is the rule of truth O impudence O perfidiousnesse to boast and bragge so much of Fathers and yet in truth to make so little reckoning of them But to let you see how the world is cheated by these Impostors heare a little further If at any time saith Cardinall Cajetan Proaem in lib. Moysis yee meet with a sence agreeing with the text although swarning from the streame of the Doctors let the Reader shew himselfe an indifferent Censor neither let any detest it for this cause because it disagreeth from the ancient Doctors For God hath not tyed the exposition of the Scripture vnto the sences of the ancient Doctors otherwise all hope would bee taken from vs of expounding the Scripture This saying of Cajetan is I confesse reproued by some of your men yet is hee defended by Andradius who also saith Defens fid Trid. l. ● We may forsake all the sences of the Fathers and bring a new vnlike vnto theirs and the Fathers spake not oracles when they expounded the Scripture Maldonat is very peremptory Whatsoeuer many ancient Fathers haue thought Sum. q. 12. 2. 4. whether it bee true Matrimony after a vow the contrary is now true And