Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	authority_n	ecclesiastical_a	supreme_a	2,155	5	8.4962	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A38090	Antapologia, or, A full answer to the Apologeticall narration of Mr. Goodwin, Mr. Nye, Mr. Sympson, Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Bridge, members of the Assembly of Divines wherein is handled many of the controversies of these times, viz. ... : humbly also submitted to the honourable Houses of Parliament / by Thomas Edwards ...	Edwards, Thomas, 1599-1647.	1644 (1644)	Wing E223; ESTC R1672	272,405	322

as_o they_o see_v just_a ground_n the_o controversy_n be_v at_o a_o end_n 4._o the_o corporation_n that_o be_v those_o in_o place_n and_o power_n if_o they_o proceed_v unjust_o be_v accountable_a to_o the_o state_n they_o live_v in_o that_o be_v to_o a_o high_a civil_a power_n and_o adjudge_v themselves_o in_o case_n of_o wrong_n condemn_v the_o innocent_a suffer_v delinquent_n to_o escape_n but_o your_o corporation_n of_o particular_a congregation_n even_o in_o case_n of_o real_a administration_n be_v against_o all_o judge_a and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n out_o of_o your_o own_o congregation_n to_o the_o five_o reason_n hint_v by_o you_o to_o strengthen_v your_o practice_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a and_o allow_v and_o the_o reform_a church_n more_o questionable_a namely_o appeal_n to_o they_o who_o have_v read_v book_n whether_o much_o have_v be_v write_v with_o strength_n set_o and_o direct_o to_o prove_v that_o government_n but_o rather_o to_o overthrow_v episcopal_a and_o to_o maintain_v those_o several_a officer_n in_o church_n which_o christ_n have_v institute_v and_o therefore_o you_o infer_v you_o may_v have_v more_o ground_n to_o question_v this_o government_n of_o combine_a classical_a presbyterial_a government_n i_o answer_v the_o ground_n of_o that_o be_v full_o lay_v down_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n page_n 17_o and_o 18._o with_o a_o account_n of_o what_o have_v be_v write_v and_o do_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o france_n for_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n and_o against_o the_o popular_a independent_a way_n which_o be_v more_o than_o you_o once_o in_o this_o reason_n hint_v but_o suppose_v that_o in_o former_a write_n of_o calvin_n beza_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n danaeus_n junius_n zepp●…rus_n gersom_a bucerus_n dr_n reynolds_n parker_n there_o have_v not_o be_v much_o set_o and_o direct_o insist_v on_o and_o with_o strength_n to_o prove_v the_o government_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o in_o some_o of_o these_o more_o especial_o as_o against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o episcopal_a government_n much_o strength_n be_v bring_v for_o the_o government_n by_o synod_n and_o class_n yet_o that_o which_o those_o divine_n of_o scotland_n holland_n england_n have_v write_v of_o late_a against_o the_o independent_a congregationall_a government_n may_v have_v be_v enough_o to_o have_v satisfy_v you_o and_o that_o be_v not_o material_a that_o no_o more_o have_v write_v see_v out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o two_o or_o three_o witness_n every_o word_n shall_v be_v establish_v and_o if_o these_o book_n have_v not_o strength_n to_o satisfy_v you_o why_o have_v not_o you_o all_o this_o while_n answer_v they_o but_o i_o must_v mind_v you_o of_o forget_v one_o of_o your_o own_o divine_n for_o beside_o the_o learned_a licensers_n book_n against_o independency_n another_o book_n be_v write_v call_v reason_n against_o the_o independent_a government_n of_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o toleration_n of_o they_o in_o this_o kingdom_n which_o book_n in_o your_o seem_a to_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o i_o believe_v you_o remember_v above_o the_o rest_n and_o in_o the_o 25_o page_n of_o your_o apology_n it_o appear_v you_o remember_v it_o but_o the_o author_n of_o it_o belike_o be_v none_o of_o your_o divine_n and_o in_o the_o close_a now_o of_o this_o answer_n to_o your_o reason_n hint_v about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n why_o you_o in_o your_o congregationall_a way_n shall_v be_v in_o the_o truth_n but_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v a_o question_n to_o you_o and_o judge_v a_o additament_n because_o the_o presbyterian_o allow_v you_o what_o you_o practise_v and_o grant_v what_o you_o hold_v but_o themselves_o hold_v and_o practise_v over_o and_o above_o i_o answer_v this_o be_v no_o argument_n at_o all_o for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o samaritan_n shall_v have_v worship_v god_n true_o but_o the_o jew_n false_o and_o the_o samaritan_n may_v have_v 22._o say_v to_o the_o jew_n as_o you_o do_v to_o the_o presbyteriann_n the_o five_o book_n of_o moses_n which_o we_o own_v to_o be_v sure_a they_o be_v from_o god_n you_o acknowledge_v they_o but_o for_o the_o book_n of_o the_o prophet_n that_o be_v a_o question_n which_o rest_v upon_o you_o that_o allow_v what_o we_o hold_v to_o make_v evident_a and_o demonstrate_v and_o so_o the_o jew_n may_v now_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n speak_v against_o the_o christian_n and_o say_v we_o be_v in_o the_o safe_a way_n to_o be_v sure_a we_o practise_v safe_o for_o you_o christian_n confess_v what_o we_o hold_v namely_o moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n to_o be_v the_o scripture_n but_o for_o the_o new_a testament_n that_o be_v to_o we_o a_o question_n and_o a_o additament_n which_o therefore_o rest_v upon_o you_o christian_n to_o make_v good_a who_o believe_v and_o practice_v over_o and_o above_o we_o and_o whereas_o the_o common_a prejudice_n and_o exception_n lay_v into_o all_o apolog._n man_n thought_n against_o we_o and_o our_o opinion_n be_v that_o in_o such_o a_o congregationall_a government_n thus_o entire_a within_o itself_o there_o be_v no_o allow_v sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n though_o never_o so_o gross●…_n no_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n or_o person_n injure_v thereby_o no_o room_n for_o complaint_n no_o powerful_a or_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n schism_n etc._n etc._n but_o every_o one_o be_v leave_v and_o may_v take_v liberty_n without_o control_n to_o do_v what_o be_v good_a in_o their_o own_o eye_n we_o have_v through_o the_o good_a providence_n of_o god_n upon_o we_o from_o the_o avow_a declaration_n of_o our_o judgement_n among_o our_o church_n mutual_o during_o our_o exile_n and_o that_o also_o confirm_v by_o the_o most_o solemn_a instance_n of_o our_o practice_n wherewith_o to_o vindicate_v ourselves_o and_o way_n in_o this_o particular_a which_o upon_o no_o other_o occasion_n we_o shall_v ever_o have_v make_v thus_o public_a god_n so_o order_v it_o that_o a_o scandal_n and_o offence_n fall_v out_o between_o those_o very_a church_n whilst_o live_v in_o this_o banishment_n whereof_o we_o ourselves_o that_o write_v these_o thing_n be_v then_o the_o minister_n one_o of_o our_o church_n have_v unhappy_o depose_v one_o of_o their_o minister_n the_o other_o judge_v it_o not_o only_o as_o too_o sudden_a a_o act_n have_v proceed_v in_o a_o matter_n of_o so_o great_a moment_n without_o ●…nsulting_v their_o sister_n church_n as_o be_v public_o profess_v we_o shall_v have_v do_v in_o such_o case_n of_o concernment_n but_o also_o in_o the_o proceed_n thereof_o as_o too_o severe_a and_o not_o manage_v according_a to_o the_o rule_v lay_v down_o in_o the_o word_n in_o this_o case_n our_o church_n do_v mutual_o and_o universal_o acknowledge_v and_o submit_v to_o this_o as_o a_o sacred_a and_o undoubted_a principle_n and_o supreme_a law_n to_o be_v observe_v among_o all_o church_n that_o as_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o apostolical_a command_n church_n as_o well_o as_o particular_a man_n be_v bind_v to_o give_v no_o offence_n neither_o to_o jew_n nor_o gentile_a nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n they_o live_v among_o so_o that_o in_o all_o case_n of_o such_o offence_n or_o difference_n by_o the_o obligation_n of_o the_o common_a law_n of_o communion_n of_o church_n and_o for_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o glory_n of_o christ_n which_o in_o common_a they_o holdforth_o the_o church_n or_o church_n challenge_v to_o offend_v or_o differ_v be_v to_o submit_v themselves_o upon_o the_o challenge_n of_o the_o offence_n or_o complaint_n of_o the_o person_n wrong_v to_o the_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n by_o other_o neighbour_n church_n offend_v thereat_o of_o what_o ever_o have_v give_v the_o offence_n and_o further_o that_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o same_o and_o like_a law_n of_o not_o partake_v in_o other_o man_n sin_n the_o church_n offend_v may_n and_o aught_o upon_o the_o impenitency_n of_o those_o church_n persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n to_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n against_o they_o of_o withdraw_a and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o they_o until_o they_o do_v repent_v and_o further_o to_o declare_v and_o protest_v this_o with_o the_o cause_n thereof_o to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o what_o further_a authority_n or_o proceed_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a of_o one_o or_o many_o sister_n church_n towards_o another_o whole_a church_n or_o church_n offend_v either_o the_o scripture_n do_v holdforth_o or_o can_v rational_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n without_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v a_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n unto_o which_o we_o upon_o his_o particular_a cognisance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n profess_v ever_o to_o submit_v and_o also_o to_o

only_o and_o the_o high_a power_n can_v they_o always_o hear_v or_o attend_v unto_o through_o the_o many_o great_a business_n of_o state_n affair_n all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n that_o both_o in_o particular_a church_n and_o between_o church_n will_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n in_o this_o way_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n against_o one_o another_o especial_o in_o independent_a church_n where_o people_n make_v church_n and_o minister_n in_o that_o way_n they_o do_v and_o have_v no_o fix_a rule_n nor_o certain_a way_n i_o warrant_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o high_a power_n king_n and_o parliament_n shall_v have_v something_o to_o do_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o to_o hear_v all_o cause_n and_o difference_n but_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o inferior_n also_o major_n bailiff_n etc._n etc._n i_o represent_v it_o to_o you_o what_o fit_a judge_n most_o of_o they_o be_v to_o judge_v and_o determine_v of_o such_o difficult_a ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o heresy_n schism_n scandal_n etc._n etc._n which_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o minister_n of_o church_n and_o between_o church_n themselves_o again_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o magistrate_n indefinite_o and_o absolute_o any_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_a popish_a arrian_n as_o mr_n robinson_n do_v in_o his_o apology_n and_o i_o find_v it_o in_o your_o manuscript_n and_o principle_n that_o you_o take_v it_o so_o judge_v then_o in_o yourselves_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o remedy_n among_o themselves_o how_o fit_a be_v they_o who_o understand_v not_o christian_a religion_n nor_o the_o doctrine_n according_a to_o godliness_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o great_a difference_n between_o church_n and_o to_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n if_o the_o apostle_n paul_n reprove_v the_o corinthian_n so_o in_o 1_o cor._n 6_o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7._o for_o cariy_a matter_n from_o the_o church_n even_o the_o small_a matter_n the_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o this_o life_n unto_o unbeliever_n how_o will_v he_o blame_v the_o carry_n of_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a unto_o heathen_a from_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n or_o do_v you_o understand_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n to_o appeal_v unto_o etc._n etc._n then_o there_o must_v be_v certain_a law_n and_o rule_n agree_v upon_o as_o for_o particular_a church_n so_o between_o the_o church_n according_a to_o which_o they_o must_v proceed_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n etc._n etc._n which_o yet_o you_o practise_v not_o now_o the_o many_o inconvenience_n that_o will_v come_v of_o such_o court_v you_o may_v easy_o foresee_v so_o that_o this_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v a_o effectual_a remedy_n 6._o what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o case_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n at_o all_o to_o take_v any_o notice_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n but_o leave_v church_n to_o themselves_o in_o that_o as_o it_o be_v with_o you_o in_o holland_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n meddle_v with_o the_o government_n and_o order_n of_o your_o church_n nor_o none_o to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o or_o to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n you_o be_v in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v you_o what_o shall_v in_o this_o case_n supply_v the_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o of_o a_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n have_v not_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n provide_v remedy_n in_o the_o church_n for_o all_o the_o internal_a necessity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o constitute_v it_o a_o perfect_a body_n within_o itself_o 7._o whether_o can_v it_o be_v rational_o and_o probable_o think_v that_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n the_o have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n though_o orthodox_n and_o the_o submit_v to_o his_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n with_o his_o back_n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o case_n of_o sin_n error_n difference_n that_o arise_v in_o church_n shall_v be_v as_o effectual_a and_o sufficient_a a_o remedy_n as_o the_o way_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v their_o authority_n and_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n will_v be_v as_o good_a as_o the_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a government_n in_o all_o the_o subordination_n and_o proceed_n of_o it_o now_o that_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a it_o shall_v be_v or_o that_o it_o shall_v serve_v in_o stead_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n take_v these_o probable_a and_o rational_a ground_n 1._o all_o wanton_a wit_n and_o erroneous_a spirit_n all_o your_o sectary_n and_o novelist_n be_v rather_o for_o this_o way_n then_o for_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o most_o of_o they_o will_v have_v neither_o to_o meddle_v at_o all_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o the_o socinian_o anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n thus_o the_o arminian_n be_v against_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o all_o for_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n and_o it_o be_v their_o chief_a engine_n by_o which_o in_o those_o sad_a day_n of_o the_o netherlands_o they_o increase_v their_o party_n and_o come_v to_o such_o a_o height_n sectary_n hope_v that_o if_o they_o can_v decline_v the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o shall_v wat_fw-mi by_o flattery_n and_o what_o by_o delay_n through_o other_o great_a business_n of_o state_n and_o what_o by_o sophism_n and_o fallacy_n and_o what_o from_o principle_n of_o policy_n in_o many_o statesman_n and_o what_o by_o friend_n etc._n etc._n effect_n that_o which_o they_o have_v no_o hope_n at_o all_o by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o know_v the_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v able_a to_o discover_v their_o fallacy_n answer_v their_o argument_n will_v mind_v those_o business_n whole_o be_v not_o to_o be_v wrought_v upon_o by_o state_n principle_n etc._n etc._n now_o if_o in_o experience_n and_o reason_n this_o way_n be_v as_o powerful_a to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n from_o schism_n and_o heresy_n they_o will_v never_o be_v so_o much_o for_o this_o way_n rather_o than_o presbytery_n 2._o natural_a reason_n dictate_v that_o they_o be_v best_a able_a and_o fit_a to_o judge_v and_o resolve_v of_o thing_n who_o do_v above_o other_o give_v themselves_o to_o the_o study_n and_o profession_n of_o those_o thing_n as_o physician_n can_v best_o judge_v of_o wholesome_a meat_n and_o disease_n and_o lawyer_n of_o the_o law_n and_o difference_n arise_v in_o they_o a_o counsel_n of_o war_n of_o difficult_a case_n and_o point_n in_o war_n and_o therefore_o in_o thing_n that_o belong_v to_o the_o spiritual_a good_a of_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o church_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n be_v most_o likely_a to_o resolve_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n can_v it_o ordinary_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n in_o matter_n of_o schism_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o worthiness_n and_o ability_n of_o minister_n and_o in_o many_o case_n that_o arise_v be_v able_a to_o judge_v and_o determine_v matter_n as_o the_o minister_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o those_o who_o have_v most_o time_n and_o leisure_n to_o attend_v a_o work_n and_o business_n to_o sift_v into_o it_o to_o hear_v all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v and_o can_v mind_v it_o they_o be_v able_a and_o understand_a be_v likely_a to_o determine_v best_a and_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o good_a end_n we_o see_v in_o experience_n that_o able_a and_o honest_a man_n through_o multitude_n of_o business_n delay_v long_o slubber_v over_o business_n and_o can_v do_v thing_n so_o effectual_o as_o they_o ought_v and_o seldom_o prove_v good_a arbitratour_n in_o difficult_a intricate_a case_n now_o magistrate_n through_o many_o great_a and_o necessary_a business_n of_o state_n have_v large_a dominion_n can_v so_o well_o attend_v as_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n to_o hear_v and_o examine_v all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n etc._n etc._n that_o do_v and_o may_v arise_v both_o in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n especial_o as_o will_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n and_o particular_o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n non-communion_n and_o mutual_a protestation_n but_o matter_n will_v be_v delay_v and_o neglect_v or_o escape_v whole_o or_o be_v huddle_v up_o 4._o to_o these_o i_o may_v add_v as_o follow_v that_o the_o magistrate_n through_o his_o just_a greatness_n will_v not_o know_v the_o spirit_n and_o disposition_n of_o minister_n &_o people_n nor_o of_o other_o matter_n so_o well_o as_o the_o minister_n who_o live_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o one_o another_o frequent_o neither_o will_v there_o be_v that_o easiness_n of_o access_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o great_a person_n as_o

of_o dort_n and_o unto_o ostensum_fw-la vedelius_fw-la de_fw-la episcopatu_fw-la constantini_n magni_fw-la who_o as_o all_o man_n know_v give_v in_o that_o book_n power_n enough_o to_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n yet_o he_o lay_v down_o at_o large_a that_o as_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o socinian_o follow_v the_o donatist_n give_v too_o little_a to_o the_o magistrate_n so_o the_o arminian_n do_v offend_v in_o the_o excess_n for_o before_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n they_o contend_v that_o under_o the_o orthodox_n magistrate_n the_o church_n have_v of_o itself_o no_o spiritual_a power_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n do_v perform_v their_o office_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o magistrate_n so_o that_o the_o magistrate_n because_o he_o for_o other_o business_n can_v not_o preach_v etc._n etc._n he_o do_v preach_v by_o the_o minister_n they_o give_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o they_o give_v the_o call_n of_o minister_n and_o their_o depose_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o with_o many_o other_o such_o but_o af●…er_v the_o synod_n they_o deny_v it_o be_v their_o right_n and_o office_n to_o oblige_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n however_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n or_o to_o use_v any_o coactive_a power_n in_o that_o case_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o they_o take_v away_o as_o much_o from_o the_o magistrate_n as_o in_o other_o thing_n they_o seem_v to_o give_v and_o it_o may_v be_v fear_v however_o these_o apologist_n now_o to_o ingratiate_v themselves_o and_o be_v leave_v alone_o in_o their_o churchway_n say_v they_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterial_a and_o that_o they_o profess_v to_o submit_v and_o to_o be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o magistrate_n judgement_n and_o cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n yet_o when_o they_o shall_v come_v once_o to_o be_v cross_v and_o the_o parliament_n by_o the_o advice_n of_o the_o assembly_n to_o settle_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o their_o authority_n to_o bind_v they_o to_o the_o thing_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n we_o shall_v see_v then_o what_o they_o will_v say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n there_o be_v too_o many_o speech_n already_o since_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o assembly_n out_o of_o their_o fear_n how_o thing_n may_v go_v which_o have_v fall_v from_o many_o independent_o that_o prognosticate_n they_o will_v do_v by_o the_o parliament_n as_o the_o remonstrant_n do_v after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n by_o the_o state_n 2._o but_o whatever_o you_o say_v here_o that_o you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o principle_n suffragamur_fw-la of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v i_o do_v much_o doubt_v it_o and_o do_v judge_v that_o in_o many_o thing_n you_o give_v no_o more_o in_o ecclesiastical_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o in_o other_o you_o give_v less_o and_o they_o give_v more_o m._n robinson_n in_o his_o apology_n say_v of_o himself_o and_o his_o church_n that_o in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o office_n they_o hold_v altogether_o the_o same_o thing_n which_o the_o belgic_a church_n do_v and_o that_o to_o their_o confession_n in_o this_o point_n they_o do_v ex_fw-la animo_fw-la agree_v now_o the_o belgic_a church_n be_v presbyterian_o and_o your_o churchway_n &_o m._n robinson_n differ_v not_o much_o ●…o_o that_o till_o you_o know_v what_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n then_o m._n robinson_n and_o his_o church_n do_v i_o can_v believe_v you_o especial_o consider_v that_o m._n burroughes_n one_o of_o you_o in_o his_o lecture_n upon_o hosea_n speak_v of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n in_o church_n affair_n ve●…_n give_v no_o more_o to_o they_o then_o the_o rigide_a presbyterian_o namely_o that_o the_o king_n be_v supreme_a governor_n to_o govern_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n by_o civil_a law_n so_o as_o to_o s●…_n christ_n not_o dishonour_v so_o as_o to_o keep_v out_o idolatry_n to_o protect_v the_o church_n to_o punish_v enormitio_n that_o be_v there_o to_o define_v it_o from_o enemy_n in_o that_o sense_n he_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o head_n but_o that_o title_n of_o supreme_a governor_n be_v understand_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n be_v more_o proper_a now_o it_o be_v easy_a out_o of_o beza_n calvin_n zanchius_n and_o many_o presbyterian_o to_o show_v more_o power_n give_v to_o king_n by_o they_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n then_o by_o m._n burroughes_n there_o so_o that_o i_o have_v more_o reason_n to_o judge_v of_o your_o principle_n by_o what_o m._n burroughes_n write_v particular_o and_o by_o way_n of_o answer_v doubt_n of_o conscience_n then_o from_o a_o narrration_n in_o general_a and_o from_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v in_o other_o thing_n you_o give_v not_o so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o the_o presbyterian_o first_o whereas_o the_o a_o presbyterian_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o protestant_a prince_n and_o magistrate_n a_o eminent_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o in_o their_o great_a assembly_n and_o counsel_n give_v he_o a_o eminent_a place_n and_o power_n you_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n do_v not_o own_v he_o for_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o shall_v his_o child_n be_v admit_v to_o baptism_n nor_o he_o to_o the_o ordinance_n though_o a_o protestant_n and_o orthodox_n unless_o you_o account_v he_o a_o visible_a saint_n etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v you_o give_v he_o so_o much_o power_n or_o vote_n no_o not_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o any_o church_n matter_n of_o censure_n admission_n election_n of_o officer_n etc._n etc._n as_o you_o do_v give_v to_o one_o of_o your_o serve_a man_n and_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o his_o child_n though_o bring_v up_o and_o profess_v the_o true_a religion_n may_v be_v and_o will_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o sacrament_n all_o their_o day_n 2._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n to_o suppress_v heresy_n schism_n to_o correct_v troubler_n and_o unruly_a person_n in_o the_o church_n to_o tie_v and_o bind_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n make_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o power_n as_o b_o voetius_fw-la show_n only_o the_o remonstrant_n with_o the_o libertine_n do_v not_o admit_v but_o all_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v reject_v such_o opinion_n that_o the_o magistrate_n can_v not_o by_o his_o stringere_fw-la authority_n bind_v and_o compel_v man_n to_o observe_v the_o decree_n of_o synod_n conformable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n ordinem_fw-la now_o do_v you_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n such_o a_o power_n by_o your_o plead_n for_o toleration_n of_o religion_n and_o for_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n and_o that_o conscience_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v and_o by_o your_o speak_n against_o imposition_n of_o thing_n lawful_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n as_o set_v form_n of_o prayer_n decree_v by_o synod_n and_o such_o like_a it_o be_v very_o suspicious_a you_o allow_v not_o such_o a_o power_n to_o magistrate_n and_o your_o good_a friend_n ●…0_n m._n s._n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o observation_n and_o consideration_n upon_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n plead_v your_o cause_n deny_v and_o plead_v against_o this_o coercive_a power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n 3._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o power_n to_o the_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n in_o the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n and_o in_o repair_v and_o build_v the_o house_n of_o god_n as_o may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o calvin_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n etc._n etc._n but_o whether_o the_o independent_o give_v as_o much_o when_o they_o allow_v private_a man_n to_o gather_v and_o make_v church_n and_o minister_n to_o do_v such_o public_a work_n and_o that_o without_o leave_n nay_o against_o the_o mind_n and_o law_n of_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n i_o question_v there_o be_v a_o tractate_n in_o my_o hand_n about_o a_o church_n that_o go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o you_o wherein_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v cut_v off_o and_o minister_n too_o from_o have_v any_o power_n to_o make_v church_n and_o the_o immediate_a independent_a power_n from_o christ_n be_v give_v to_o the_o saint_n only_o to_o gather_v and_o combine_v themselves_o in_o such_o a_o assembly_n without_o expect_v warrant_n from_o any_o governor_n what_o soever_o upon_o earth_n saint_n as_o saint_n have_v a_o right_n and_o full_a power_n to_o cast_v themselves_o into_o the_o fellowship_n without_o ask_v the_o consent_n of_o governor_n and_o civil_a magistrate_n who_o have_v no_o power_n in_o the_o marriage_n of_o their_o people_n nor_o shall_v have_v it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o natural_a civil_a

therefore_o where_o any_o one_o rep●…nts_n the_o church_n receive_v he_o so_o that_o in_o substitute_v the_o magistrate_n power_n in_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o civil_a power_n for_o want_n of_o spiritual_a to_o make_v it_o as_o available_a for_o those_o spiritual_a end_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o leave_v the_o proper_a remedy_n and_o mean_n and_o to_o take_v up_o other_o and_o i_o will_v desire_v you_o to_o answer_v i_o whether_o the_o proper_a remedy_n and_o mean_n appoint_v for_o such_o end_n and_o use_n or_o the_o improper_a remedy_n nay_o remedy_n appoint_v and_o intend_v main_o for_o other_o end_n be_v most_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a to_o accomplish_v those_o end_n as_o also_o whether_o a_o part_n of_o a_o proper_a remedy_n be_v assist_v and_o back_v with_o a_o great_a proportion_n of_o a_o remedy_n of_o another_o nature_n and_o kind_n can_v be_v as_o effectual_a as_o the_o whole_a remedy_n and_o mean_n as_o for_o instance_n whether_o a_o little_a grace_n assist_v by_o civility_n and_o fairness_n of_o nature_n will_v do_v as_o much_o to_o overcome_v lust_n and_o destroy_v the_o flesh_n as_o the_o high_a degree_n of_o grace_n that_o saint_n may_v attain_v unto_o and_o whether_o a_o little_a spiritual_a knowledge_n second_v with_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o common_a and_o outward_a ecclesiast_n knowledge_n be_v as_o available_a for_o a_o christian_a conversation_n as_o great_a measure_n of_o spiritual_a knowledge_n though_o a_o man_n have_v but_o a_o little_a knowledge_n in_o philosophy_n physic_n law_n etc._n etc._n but_o more_o particular_o to_o let_v you_o see_v that_o your_o recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o that_o of_o excommunication_n and_o presbyterial_a government_n i_o shall_v commend_v to_o your_o consideration_n these_o eight_o follow_v particular_n first_o there_o may_v be_v many_o sin_n and_o error_n which_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n meddle_v not_o with_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o his_o cognisance_n if_o you_o will_v have_v recourse_n to_o he_o or_o if_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v pronounce_v against_o a_o church_n because_o of_o impenitency_n in_o they_o he_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v to_o assist_v and_o back_o it_o there_o be_v no_o law_n for_o such_o thing_n which_o yet_o be_v spiritual_a evil_n and_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n shall_v be_v deal_v with_o to_o recover_v man_n out_o of_o they_o learned_a zanchius_n in_o his_o difference_n that_o he_o give_v between_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o the_o magistrate_n censure_n observe_v this_o for_o a_o special_a one_o there_o be_v many_o wickedness_n against_o which_o the_o magistrate_n true_o christian_n do_v not_o use_v to_o proceed_v neither_o be_v bind_v by_o his_o law_n as_o for_o instance_n private_a fall_n out_o hatred_n &c_n &c_n as_o also_o many_o evil_a manner_n both_o domestical_a and_o public_a which_o do_v not_o disturb_v the_o public_a peace_n or_o the_o public_a good_a but_o the_o church_n ought_v not_o to_o bare_a these_o but_o to_o correct_v they_o according_a to_o christ_n institution_n now_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o this_o case_n here_o your_o recourse_n of_o submission_n to_o the_o magistrate_n with_o the_o magistrate_n back_v non-communion_n fail_v you_o and_o conduce_v nothing_o at_o all_o second_o in_o case_n the_o magistrate_n be_v of_o those_o church_n and_o chief_a in_o those_o sin_n and_o miscarriage_n for_o which_o non-communion_n be_v denounce_v against_o those_o church_n as_o may_v easy_o fall_v out_o how_o will_v you_o have_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n now_o back_v and_o assist_v both_o those_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n member_n of_o they_o shall_v have_v nothing_o to_o back_o non-communion_n to_o make_v it_o equivalent_a to_o excommunication_n nay_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o who_o bring_v in_o more_o of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o excommunication_n where_o the_o particular_a church_n will_v not_o and_o the_o class_n may_v not_o what_o shall_v be_v do_v with_o the_o magistrate_n offend_v what_o mean_n have_v god_n leave_v for_o the_o recovery_n of_o they_o you_o can_v imagine_v they_o will_v make_v use_n of_o their_o power_n against_o themselves_o now_o if_o they_o may_v not_o have_v spiritual_a remedy_n and_o censure_n as_o of_o excommunication_n this_o principle_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n fall_v short_a here_o whereas_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n there_o be_v a_o remedy_n and_o redress_v for_o all_o and_o certain_o god_n way_n of_o govern_v his_o church_n provide_v for_o all_o whereas_o you_o fall_v short_a 3._o what_o if_o upon_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n denounce_v against_o a_o church_n or_o church_n the_o magistrate_n judge_v otherwise_o and_o hold_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n unjust_a and_o will_v not_o assist_v it_o which_o may_v ordinary_o fall_v out_o what_o effectual_a mean_n have_v the_o offend_a church_n of_o be_v reduce_v now_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o what_o must_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n may_v the_o magistrate_n revoke_v that_o sentence_n of_o the_o church_n or_o church_n offend_v and_o declare_v it_o null_a and_o cause_v the_o church_n who_o pass_v the_o sentence_n to_o recall_v it_o and_o to_o continue_v their_o communion_n and_o suppose_v those_o church_n will_v not_o revoke_v it_o but_o stand_v to_o their_o act_n what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n who_o must_v judge_v now_o between_o these_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n may_v the_o magistrate_n now_o by_o his_o power_n which_o you_o give_v he_o in_o ecclesiastical_n instead_o of_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o a_o church_n miscarry_v as_o the_o church_n suppose_v now_o turn_v his_o power_n against_o the_o church_n for_o denounce_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n vojust_o as_o the_o magistrate_n judge_v and_o not_o only_o declare_v it_o void_a but_o punish_v this_o church_n or_o church_n for_o denounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o declare_v and_o protest_v to_o all_o other_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o what_o if_o all_o the_o church_n protest_v to_o will_v continue_v to_o renounce_v communion_n with_o the_o church_n censure_v with_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n notwithstanding_o the_o magistrate_n refuse_v to_o assist_v that_o sentence_n nay_o though_o he_o declare_v it_o void_a or_o what_o if_o upon_o the_o magistrate_n declaration_n some_o of_o the_o church_n give_v the_o righ-hand_n of_o fellowship_n again_o but_o other_o will_v not_o what_o must_v the_o magistrate_n or_o the_o church_n do_v in_o these_o case_n and_o the_o like_a consider_v well_o of_o it_o whether_o this_o effectual_a way_n of_o you_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n instead_o of_o a_o powerful_a mean_n to_o relieve_v injure_a person_n or_o reduce_v church_n will_v not_o prove_v a_o mean_n of_o great_a difference_n and_o division_n as_o well_o between_o the_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n as_o between_o the_o church_n themselves_o 4._o must_v the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o the_o church_n or_o church_n offend_v and_o persist_v therein_o upon_o the_o come_n of_o it_o to_o he_o and_o so_o punish_v it_o according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n as_o he_o judge_n meet_v without_o first_o hear_v what_o the_o church_n can_v say_v for_o itself_o or_o must_v he_o first_o hear_v they_o both_o and_o in_o case_n more_o church_n mutual_o renounce_v communion_n with_o one_o another_o and_o protest_v against_o each_o other_o with_o other_o particular_n instance_a in_o about_o the_o remedy_n of_o non-communion_n under_o the_o four_o general_a head_n what_o shall_v he_o do_v in_o these_o case_n must_v he_o hear_v all_o 5._o what_o magistrate_n or_o magistrate_n do_v you_o mean_v to_o who_o in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n you_o will_v have_v recourse_n unto_o and_o that_o must_v assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v you_o mean_v the_o supreme_a and_o chief_a magistrate_n the_o high_a power_n only_o or_o all_o inferior_a magistrate_n in_o their_o several_a station_n and_o division_n where_o these_o thing_n fall_v out_o as_o major_n of_o city_n and_o town_n justice_n of_o peace_n and_o such_o magistrate_n or_o do_v you_o mean_v the_o christian_n protestant_n magistrate_n or_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_n popish_a arrian_n or_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o the_o magistrate_n power_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n erect_v in_o every_o division_n of_o the_o county_n to_o hear_v the_o difference_n that_o fall_v out_o between_o church_n offend_v one_o with_o another_o etc._n etc._n or_o what_o do_v you_o mean_v if_o you_o understand_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n