compasse of the ordinarye power of the Church who beeing immediatelye called of God coulde not be demissed by the Church For seeing no calling can bee made voyde but by the authority which made it that which hath immediately proceeded from God can not be repealed but by his voyce Now seeing the immediat voyce of God and Christ did not onely not make voyde but further establish the calling of Aaron and Peter how could y e Church meddle with that Or how coulde the rule giuen to the Church for to direct their mediate elections rule the immediate calling of God And if this be not playne inough to cause him to see the difference which is as greate as that which is betweene GOD and his Churche the voyce of man and the voyce of GOD Let him vnderstande it by an other example of lyke reason It hath beene prooued alreadye both by the Scriptures and Fathers that none shoulde be admitted to the Ministery by the Church but such as were sufficiently qualified by ordinary meanes or gyftes giuen them alreadye of God vnto the same function Now if to defend the Bishoppes in admitting Taylors Shomakers Weauers Chaundlers Harpers beeing also men furnished with no gyftes one shoulde alleadge the calling of Amos who by God was taken from the sheepfolde beeing neyther a Prophet nor sonne of a Prophet woulde it not be a manyfest dallying in the sight of God and man But rather as the ordinary power of the Church can not heerein imitate the Lordes prerogatiue because they can not as God with their calling powre in gyftes into the personnes whereby they shoulde bee inabled to their office So they muste not followe the prerogatiue of GOD in this because they are rather to bee gealouse and suspicious for the Churches sake though other-wyse they are bound to hope the beste of a repentaunt Sinner ouer him leaste he shoulde agayne betraye the cause of GOD which in God is farre other-wyse who not onelye knoweth the heartes of men but also what strength he will after gyue him and if hee let him fall hee knoweth how to tourne it to the profitte of his Church Now as these examples in this respecte approche not vnto the matter in debate So the example of AVGVSTINE a Manachie or such lyke because the question is not of such as were before their ministerye such or carryed away with the common ignoraunce before they knew the trueth but of suche as firste seruiuge GOD in his appoynted seruice doe not onely leaue the holy altar and fire but renouncing that betake them-selues to a prophane and idolatrous seruice and priesthoode Wherin he receiueth answere also vnto his allegations of the fathers and counsels which if they should speake of such as fell in capitall pointes from the true seruice of God of which somtimes they were Ministers they should then be directly contrary to the fathers and general counsels which shal anon be brought as direct and manyfest on our side The lyke is to be answeared vnto Viret and the example of the French Churches Hauing thus aunsweared his obiections the truth is confirmed sufficiently by the reasons following out of the Scriptures and auncient witnes from the councels and Fathers 1 Whatsoeuer God hath commaunded to be done in the lawe to declare the honour he hath of his right seruice how he will haue his Ministery beautified and fenced against the cauilles of all which are perpetuall equityes of such their prescription 1. Tim. 3. 7 that is still and perpetuallye to binde the Church 2 But such is the order which now we speake of as may appeare by the 1. King 23. 9. and by the 44. of Ezech 13. 14. 15. c 3 Wherefore this order must be kept holy and vndefiled We know it will be obiected that these commaundementes be in the olde Testament not in the new and that they are ceremoniall They who shall so obiect must consider the old Testament is of equal authority with the new and therefore seeing God hath once established this law for the Church-ministery they must not repeale it but by the same authoritie vnlesse they will make with y â— Manichees one iust God for the law and an other mercifull for the Gospel So that vnlesse it maye be shewed eyther that this law was onely a shadowe for a tyme to come or was made for some cause peculier for that tyme and those persons which they can not doe because of the perpetuall equityes before assigned It followeth that this must stande for an holy and induring constitution of God And in trueth such aunswere vndermineth at once both the glorye and perfection of God his holy Scriptures not onelye in our iudgement but in the iudgement of all wryters holy and prophane who haue continually alleadged the sentences and commaundementes of the olde Testament euen for the matters of the gouernment of the Church The Apostle prooueth the mayntenaune of the Ministerye for preaching of the Gospell by the lawe made for the maintenaunce of the Priestes in the 1. Cor. 9. he prooueth women ought not to exercise authority by the places of Genesis and in the first of Tim. 2. Cyprian as all know that read him prooueth the election of the people by the place of Numbers and that men are not to attempt further then their calling by the places of Dathan Abiram Uzza in the carrying of the Arke and such lyke If this exception serue howe shall we any longer with the Fathers and Godly wryters of our age stoppe their mouthes for the proofe of the Baptisme of Children with the reasons from Circumcision drawne out of the lawe Nay that they maye see they can not vndermyne the gouernment of Christe with such aunswers but they must also shake the brazen Pyllers of the Sacred authoritye of the Magistrate Let them shew with what Argumentes they can stoppe the Mouthes of Papystes in maintayning the Supreame authoritie of the Prince and our moste gratious Soueraigne in Ecclesiasticall causes to reforme religion according to Gods word to plant Church-officers by the rules of the same and according therevnto to depose Abiather and set vp Sadotk to call synodes Ecclesiastical when need is or when the Church-gouernours neglect their dutye other then by the examples of Ezechias Solomon Jehoshaphat Josias and by the pregnant reasons drawn from them Wherfore let them leaue these euasions and shifts vnto popish diuines to whom they appertaine But least they should thinke we haue but one piller to vpholde this trueth and that onely in the olde Testament let them answere the reasons following out of the newe If Paule did rightly think It so vnlawfull to take Mark such a one as went from them from Pamphilia and accompanied them not vnto the worke y â— he would rather be at sharp strife with Barnabas the sonne of consolation and be seperated from so worthy a companion in all his labors then accept Mark herein being iustified aboue Barnabas by S. Luke
it which is the aduancement of vertue the beating downe and suppressing of sinne and impietie the keeping of the Church in a vnity and quiet order which beeing the effect of Christes kingdome and his gouernement hee maketh them the essentiall partes of it So that he hath not learned yet to put a difference Betweene the kingdome of God and Gods righteousnesse established by it Nor betweene the two petitions of the Lordes prayer that his kingdomr may come and the fruite of this That his will may be done in earth as in heauen Againe he graunteth the essentiall partes of Christes kingdome and outwarde policie of the Church but he denyeth any exact forme as though there can be essentiall poyâ—tes of outwarde gouernment perpetuall and yet they shal haue no perpetuall forme Can there be an outwarde essentiall thing without a forme Or can the essence be perpetuall and changeable and the form variable and mutable Can there be an immutable outward gouernment without immutable outward callinges offices and workes This is to giue a man without members a skinne for a bodye without bones and fleshe Lastly how iniurious is this vnto Christ he wil acknowledge the benefit must be had but he will not acknowledge the hand wherby it is giuen Christ is wise inough still to administer and rule and that he will gyue him leaue to doe But y â— he is wyse inough to doe it by his owne meanes that hee being The onelye Lorde should appoynt the diuers administrations of his Church alwayes y â— his spirite Shoulde minister fully sufficient diuersitie of giftes that one God shoulde worke the sufficient diuers faculties alwayes That is vntollerable false seditious hurtfull to the estate He can allow the people shoulde bee taught and exhorted and haue the Sacramentes but whether by Readers or by Teachers by reading Homilyes or by Pastours by men or women God his word doth not define the people must be ruled but whether by Gouernours appoynted by Christ or by men He must relieue his pore with almesse but whether by his Deacons or others that he muste seperate betwene the cleane and vncleane cast out the wicked but whether by his Church and Eldership or some other muste by no meanes be determined As if one should say it is essentiall and perpetuall that we haue our enteraunce into Christe and his Church our growing and nourishing in the same sealed vp perpetually but that it shall be done onelye by Baptisme and the Lordes Supper and not also by confirmation that maye not bee graunted Christ was wyse inough and willing inough to ordayne the effects but not the instrumentes If he saye he commaunded them saying Baptize doe this So we say he commanded the other saying I haue set Teachers Gouernours saying let the Doctor abide in Teaching the Pastour in exhortation the Elder in ruling the Deacon in distributing the Church euen the Eldership to be tolde and to excommunicate Lastly it is as if one should say I can wel allow her most excellent maiesty for her excellent wisedome to see the commonwealth administred iustice executed matters rightly pleaded determined but y â— this shalbe don by her most honorable couÌ„sel by her chief iustices by her iustices of peace by her Shiriefes and Balifes by her Sergeants at the lawe that I can not like or allow of As for y â— place of Tertulian it is plaine he meaneth it of the discipline in the course of life which is chaÌ„geable as may appeare by the testimenies alledged in the first point His next contradiction is concerning y â— means of liuing that y â— French church wold haue the rentes and reuenewes deliuered to the Deacons so the minister receiue his stipend but the booke of Discipline T. C. and the Admonition speaketh earnestly againste those who gape after Church-liuings and turne it to their purses and pleasure as though these could not stande together that they shoulde bee deliuered to the Churche onely and turned to holy vse that it shoulde bee administred by the Deacons or as though the playnesse of the one in reproouing an abuse bee contrary to the good order taken by the other Howsoeuer it be so the Christian Magistrate see the poore cared for by the Deacons and that they who preach the Gospell liue of the Gospell and that the Lord be thus honoured with our substance we acknowledge he doth his duety towardes the Church But if these want and the thinges giuen to that vse bee turned to the priuate commodity of some there is a defect in that behalfe But nowe this valiant champion will ouerthrowe the Eldership by such weapons as followe for T. C. Doth teach it from the Iewish Synedrion and out of the Talmud which according to Bonauentur and Danaeus handled ciuill thinges which our presbytery may not doe To which I aunswere that T. C. doth not fet it from y e Talmude but from the word of God as his whole disputation doth shew in that pointe onely hee sheweth that this presbytery hath beene continued vnder the Lawe and vnder the Gospell which is true and agreeed vppon by all three which he speaketh of It is also as fals y t Bonauenture speaketh so of the Ecclesiasticall Senate by it selfe for that which he noted is of the ciuill and politike synedrion Cap. 13. but hee maketh afterward when he handleth the Ecclesiastical pollicy of that time besides the priest and besides the Teachers in euery Sinagogue Senetors which inquired of theire manners which is manifeste by Exod. 4. 29. Exod. 17. 5. 2. King cap. 6. 32. Ier. 19. 1. Ezech. 8. 1. and Neh. 8. 5. Where are Elders occupied in Ecclesiasticall matters assistant to the Prophets and teaching Leuites and yet distinguished from them so as they medled not with the Word Danaeus in deede sayth they medled somtimes w t ciuil administrations which ours do not which thing yet maketh no contradiction to vs seeing we say with him that to ours is giuen by Christ Ecclesiastical authority only But the truth is y t they were then plainly distinguished some being for the matters of God and some for ciuill causes the matters of the king Now the cause of this which Danaeus speaketh of was that in waighty matters both came together because the politike lawes of the Jewes were for the moste part defined and set downe in the Worde of God they the Priest Leuites and Ecclesiasticall Elders were there to pronounce the sentence Ecclesiastically that is to pronounce y e sense of Gods word in y t cause the Princes cheefe of the people and ciuil Senate were to pronounce Ciuilly and iudicially the sentence of death or such like according to the sense of the Scriptures Secondly by the causes that when the Ecclesiasticall Senate commeth to the Ciuill the matters are thus mixt as Jeremy 26. 16. But when the matter is Ciuil meerely and no Question of the sense of the
both in assigning of these iust causes of S. Pauls refusall and giuing the Testimony of the Churche to Paul who commēded him to y e grace of God of both which cōcerning Barnabas he keepeth silence Then by how much more right may and ought we to striue with such as haue not only left the work of the Lorde but haue beene annointed with the filthy grease of the vncleane priesthoode and haue receiued the balde marke of the beast and haue in continuall ministry blasphemed the most holy that they should not be taken againe into the fellowship of this worke and seruice of the Gospell Lastly when as the Apostle requireth y ◠all Ministers must haue a good Testimony of those who are without least he fal into the reproch and snare of the caueller 1 Tim. 3. 7. howe cā they auoid this reproch who are to be taunted with their back-sliding with the turning of their coates and with high treasons againste their GOD how are not they in danger of the snare who haue opened a way vnto Sathan and the world how they may deal with them already Nowe vnto this deuine voyce of the Prophets we add the reuerend though humane testimony of auncient time Wherein the sentence of the generall Councel of Carthage alleadged before vs by Cyprian is of most reuerend account Cyprian lib. 1. epist 4. And there be other both many and grienous faultes wherewith Basilides and Marshall are inwrapped such do in vaine go about to occupy the place of a Byshop seeing it is manifest that such men may not gouern the Churche of Christ nor offer vp Sacrifices vnto God Especially when of late both with vs and with all the byshops in the worlde euen Cornelius also our fellow in ministry peaceable and iust and whom the Lord vouchsafed the honour of a Martyr decreed that such men might be admitted to repentance but should notwithstanding be kept from the cleargy or ministery By which also it is manifest y ◠this Counsel was not that prouinciall which concluded rebaptization whereunto Cornelius neuer consented And how Cyprian himselfe mainteineth our reasons may appeare by his discourse in the 7. Epist lib. 1. and his wordes following How dare he challenge vnto him the ministery which he hath betrayed as though it were lawfull after hauing beene at the Alter of the diuell to come vnto the Alter of God And againe Seeing therefore the Lorde threatneth such tormentes and punishmentes in the daye of his wrath to such as obey the Deuill and sacrifice to Idolles howe can hee thinke that he may doe the office of the minister of God which hathe obeied and serued the priests of the deuils or howe doth hee thinke that his hand can be translated to the sacrifice praier of the Lord which was captiue to sacriledge such a crime These may suffice for this point that after we haue mainteined the due honour of God his Embassadors we should also maintain the iust lawfull and holy authority committed vnto them of God Of the authoritie of Ministers of the Worde COncerning the authority of Ministers he speaketh thus Page 53. And heereuppon I woulde bee resolued by the Authour or some other whether hee thinke this indowment of euerye Minister with the execution of all dicsipline admitting but not graunting it to be so by law to be a conuenient pollicy for the vnity quiet of the Churche And whether he him selfe had not rather be vnder the forme now in practize in regard of his owne contentment then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister or else whether shoulde appellations frō the iudgement of the minister in this respect be allowed of and whether to the byshoppe or to whome and whether the Byshop by this interpretation of lawe shall not retain his authority of executing the Discipline of the Church vpon euery particuler minister and in euery seuerall parish as afore time seeing the authour sayth as well as the Byshop in his diocesse And if he shall what if the Byshop vppon good cause and for abusing of the authority shall suspende the Minister from his iurisdiction of executing Discipline is hee not at the same point he was before what if the Byshop him-selfe dwell in the parish who shall then haue the preheminence and what if the ministers discretion serue him vpon some small or surmised cause to excommunicate some great pear or noble counseller of his parish whose indignation may turne the whole Church to greate mischeefe or to proceede against his Patrone who peraduenture hath a bōd of him to resign And a little after page 54. The author seemeth to me to deuide the discipline of the Church which he would intitle euery Minister vnto into admonition denuntiation and excommunication If by denuntiation he meane the publishing of Excommunication done by him selfe then is it a part thereof If as I rather think he mean the second degree of proceeding vpon faults not publike specified in the 18. of S. Mathew then is this common with the minister vnto all other Christians euen as admonition is being the first degree And where the minister is the party offended and hath not preuayled neither by his admonition in priuate nor his denuntiation before two or three to whome shall hee tell it in the third place where he himself hath the authority to excommunicate and a little after in this respect hee calleth the Ministers priuate and inferiour And againe pag. 59. Yes truely as was touched afore they doe and may execute the discipline of declaring by doctrine according to the Worde of God mens sins to be bound or losed and the censure of rebuking and prouing openly those that doe freeze in the dregges of theire sinnes which are not the leaste partes of discipline which is as much as for auoiding intollerable inconueniences which otherwise would insue as is expedient to bee attributed to euery one c. A little after And if no especiall preeminence might be attributed in matter of execution of discipline to one minister aboue another why is it sayde by S. Paul excommunicating the incestuous Corinthian Absens decreui being absent I decreed seeing they had Ministers of their own and willed the denuntiation afterward to be done openly in the Church And at the time of his absolution Paul being absente saith to whom you forgiue any thing I forgiue also likewise speaking of the Anathematisme of Hymenaeus and Alexander I haue giuen them vp vnto Sathan not naming their owne Minister or any segniory Againe fol. 61. But if hee meane the discipline passiuely I thinke hee and his fellowes haue had some wrong at the cheefe prelates hands a great while If actiuely that euery minister without check might haue the execution of all discipline in his owne Parish I do verily beleeue that this man and others who so earnestly call for they knowe not what If they might not be them selues also Elders auncientes or what you will
sauing Priests of the Seigniory would be the the first weary of it For if I knowe their disposition they are as vnpatient as any men to bee at controlment and moste of all by a poore Minister It hath alwaies bene the practise of y e subtile Serpent who that hee might vndermine the authorye of Gods Embassadours and bring the Messengers of the most highest vnto disgrace to lift vppe some who neglectinge the moste essentiall duetyes of a Pastoure and Elder in feeding the flockes and being a Pattern in their whole life and example vnto them are wont to climbe into the ambitious throne of exercising a vsurped ecclesiasticall Dominion and a Lordship ouer their fellow-ministers that whilste by their place and pompe they might amaze the people as beeing men of great learning and wisedome and might also by their authority make the poore Ministers as the aunswearer sayth Priuat Ministers to speake when they wil wryte to what they list and to be their Commissaries cryer y t is their mās man to promulgat his sentence of excommunication at his pleasure hee might also bring to passe that which the Prophet Jeremy complayneth of in both The Prophets prophesie for reward and the Priestes exercise dominion * by their meanes and my people loue it so and what will they doe in the ende Which we see hath not onely won much vnto the cause of Sathan in popery but also it keepeth much power vnto him amongest those who do professe the Gospell For by this meanes it commeth to passe that they will goe 5. mile to heare a Lord preach when they will hardly come to Church to heare their owne Pastour By this meanes they becomme so irreuerent or rather sawcie with their Pastour that they care no more for his admonition and rebuke then for the bleating of a sheepe by this meanes they maye call him before a Commissarye a lay-man as he speaketh they may fetch out Excommunications thicke and three-folde if hee appeare not and so not only not haue him not to exercise dominion ouer them which Peter forbiddeth but also be Lordes ouer their Pastour beeing but priuate personnes which the lawe of reason disaloweth Which pollicy of Sathan although it become odious in the sight almost of all men but especially of true and louing subiects who are greeued that some not onelye exercise Lordship ouer theire fellow-ministers but also pearche so high as they pray vpon the right of princes whilste they forsoothe may not eate flesh in Lent or on a Fryday but by a Byshoypes lycense yet this man who hath giuen his tong leaue to reuile the Ministers with diuers slaunders reproches cannot content himselfe with that but must open his mouth against the due authority of the Ministers of Jesus Christe In which respect wee account our selues bounde by the Canonicall obedience which we owe vnto y e Archbishop of our soules Jesus Christ according to y e Canons which he hath made in his worde first to shew how this man disordereth y e questiō according to his maner voweth consent as it seemeth with the Jesuits in these his assertions proofs and then hauing discussed his allegations to confirm the plain truth by holy authority of scripture and worthy witnes of ancient times In the entrance therfore the Answerer is not content only to fly from y e issue whether according to the word of God the minister shold exercise the censures of the Church according to y ◠word of God which with vs is executed by Commissaries meere lay-men vnto another thing namely what inconueniences the excommunication committed to the pastor might bring but also to set vpon a matter neuer affirmed by vs that a minister should without the rest of the ecclesiastical senate perform this thing His agreement with the Papists may appeare manifestly by their Annotation the 4. ver of 5. cap. 1. Cor. Their wordes are these Though he commanded the Acte shoulde be done in the face of the Church as such sentences and censures bee at this day executed also yet the iudgement and authority of giuing sentence was in himselfe and not in the whol multitude as the Protestants and populer sects affirm Wherfore seeing his cause is that which is betweene the sworne enimies of GOD and his Church we are not to fear but the truth which hath preuayled so often against them shall also carry the Garland from this newe Wrestler His first reasons are drawne from the inconueniences which hee thinketh will come vnto the Church by this means as requiring rather like a Ciuilian not a diuine what is safe then what is according to God his wil Amongst which he demaundeth whether the Authour had not rather be vnder the forme that nowe is then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister which I aunswere by another Question why should the ministers censures proceeding by the equall authority of an Eldership vpon causes determined by God his worde in a small volume be more infinite then y e Commissaries who cannot but proccede according to the infinite and contradictorye Canons of their Law who can excommunicate vpon non apparaunce for a matter of 12 pence Is it liker that one Minister shal haue many elders more tied to his wil pleasure then one Commissary his own affections Againe may not their appeale from one Eldership to a Conference or assemblie of many Ministers and Elderships be as safe as from the Commissary to another Byshop And if it were granted that the Byshop should haue authoritye in euerye particuler Churche yet with the Ministers consent vnlesse he will iustle one lawe against another why were it not more reasonable safe then as it is nowe in the Byshoppe alone Seeing then the Minister might haue more particuler knowledge of the causes in his Congregation then the Byshop and yet if hee were rash the Byshops wisedome might stay him And if the Byshoppe shoulde suspende the Minister vppon abuse of his authoritye yet hee were not at the same poynt he was before because then they which did not abuse their authoritye mighte exercise it still And if the Byshoppe dwell in the Parish and had preheminence yet hee shoulde not draw the execution of Discipline to himselfe onely but to holde it in common with him But what doe I answering his cauelles agayuste the Lawe seeing I doubt not but the Abstractor will soone aunswere his cauill in this behalf For the fountayns which are in his Booke already are not yet dammed vp by the answerer Wherefore I passe to his incōuenience which he fetcheth from the want of discretion in y ◠Minister which is What if hee vpon want of discretion doe excommunicate some greate peere of his Parish vppon some surmized cause whose indignation may turne the whole church to great mischeefe To this I answere that vnlesse the Byshops seat aboue a Pastors be so sanctified as Hierome sayth by humain constitutions as that it can alwaies proceede with
discretion and Wisdome when the Pastors seate sanctified with God and ordained with so many pretious promises shoulde bee subiect to more follye and headinesse then the chayre of the Byshoppe this inconuenience is as likelye to fall into the Byshoppe as the Minister Further whether is more likely that the Byshop hauing by reason of his countenaunce and Ciuill authoritye bothe more heart-burning betweene the Noble Counsailers and himselfe and being in lesse feare as thinking him selfe better able to shoulder amongest them would be more bold in his conceit then a poore Minister as hee calleth him who neuer woulde for feare but vpon moste necessary and sufficient cause vrged in conscience aduenture suche thing neither if hee woulde could many graue Elders without whom he coulde do nothing bee drawne vnto it especially considering that their feare woulde preuayle where greate Conscience of theire duetie shoulde not ouercome it And maye not this man when his opinion as a Canker shall frette so farre turne all this agaynst the euery of publique rebuking as-well as agaynste the Mynisters execution of Disciplyne for maye he not also demaunde whether the Byshoppe shall retayne his authoritye to preache in his Diocesse and if hee bee in that Parishe who shall haue the preeminence If hee suspende the Minister from preachinge whether hee bee not at the same poynte hee was before And what if the Minister vppon some discretion woulde rebuke openlye some Peere of the Realme vpon bare conceyte or some surmise shall then the duetye of the Minister in Preaching for suche vnitye of the Churche cease and bee counted inconuenient If hee saye no this is the commaundemente of GOD and necessarye for Christian institution so wee saye this is the commaundemente of JESUS CHRISTE and necessarye for holye correction In the nexte place hee asketh to whome the Pastour shall tell it when hee doth admonishe him him-selfe I aunswere for the Pastour easely to the whole Eldership as our sauiour willeth But this question in deed cleane dasheth the sole authority of the Bishop out of countenaunce For to whom shall he tell not to the Congregation of Elders as our Sauiour commandeth but to the Church which standeth of him-selfe only as he desireth not ascending by the stayres of Christ from one to two from two to manye Godly Presidents as Chrisostome speaketh but by the stayres of Rome to descend from two to one and to take the matter wherin he is a party into his own hands and proceed in censure Ecclesiasticall as liketh him-selfe best In the next to blear mens eyes with all he graunteth they may rebuke in publike doctrine bynde and loose by preaching which is a great part of Discipline as though any man were so blynd as when the booke maketh three partes of the Ministers Office ministring of doctrine ministering of the Sacraments and ministring of Discipline as not to see what violence he doth Nay what folly he imputeth to the booke as though they shoulde make three of two For if Discipline be nothing but the open rebuking in preaching and binding and loosing by the same that beeing a parte of ministring the Doctrine by preaching is manifestly contained vnder it and so not onelye maketh one two but carrieth one halfe from one end of the sentence to another placing a thirde betweene and for an vmpier belike leaste they shoulde fall out or else being ioyned orderly togeather should to much annoy him But his reasons which the Jesuites haue shaken against the trueth hefore him do follow Unto which I aunswere that it followeth not that if the Apostle mighte by sole authority excommunicate therefore the Byshop may for an Apostle is of far greater authority then a Byshop is Secondly it is false that the Apostle did onely command vnto them to pronounce the sentence as the Byshop doth the minister giuing them no further authority For although as an Apostle whose duety was to deliuer ordiaunces which the Churches were to obserue and keep hee did iustlye decree as the voyce of Christe and so commaunde them what they should do yet he doth not excommunicate or take it vnto him-selfe but willeth that by the authority of Christ they should caste out not pronounce his sentence of eiection they shold Seperate frō amongst them such that they Should iudge those within that is vnder their authority not that they shoulde only pronounce his sentence of seperation and iudgement which is also most manyfest by his other allegation out of the second to the Corinthes where hesheweth that hee alone would not forgiue but whomsoeuer they forgaue he would forgiue he calleth it the rebuke or censure of many not of him-selfe He sheweth now they ought freely to forgiue he did exhort them to ratifie and by authority confirme their loue towards him Let him therfore take this necessary collectiō cleane against him y ◠if y ◠Apostle wold not nor durst not take vnto himself the sole anthority of excommunication absolution but left it vnto the church How shal any one bishop presume to shut out y ◠Ministers and elders carry it wholy vnto himself His next reason is of as great force The Apostle saith he did deliuer vnto sathan mentioneth neither their Ministry nor segniory therfore he did alone Upon which example I reason thus Paule saith that Timothy receiued grace by the laying on of his hands making no mention of y ◠elders therfore it is false that he saith in the 1. Tim. 4. that he receiued it by the laying on of the hands of the Eldership James Act. 15. saith I determine or iudge Therefore it is false which is after set down y ◠this was the decree of the Apostles Elders with the consent of the Churches But what neede I stande to aunswere this argument which was by a reuerent seruaunt of God aunsweared openly at Paules crosse that although the action be giuen to one who moderated yet neither Peter nor James nor anye Apostle aboue Apostles nor Bishop aboue Ministers had any authoritye ouer others and that as the Senatours were equall in authoritye notwithstanding he moderated so is it amongest the Apostles and Bishops And thus much for his reasons Ours follow that it belongeth to the Pastor the Eldership to excommunicate by the consent of the people If our Sauiour Christ Math. 18. when hee sayth tell the Churche meane not one Bishop because one can not be a number nor one alone a Church and he goeth vpwarde from one to 2. from two to moe not contrarywise from twoo to one neither can it be meant of manye Churches for then it muste bee all the whole Church in the phrase of the scripture and it were a confusion and vnpossibility for many Churches or the whol people to heare all such Ecclesiasticall causes but do meane vpon these reasons a particular Congregation then our assertion is most true and certaine The first we haue proued therfore the second is
true 1 That which the Apostle maketh the iudgement of a particular Congregation that must needes appertaine to the Pastor and the rest of the Elders as the gouernours and to the people as consenters 2 But this the Apostle plainelye expresseth 1. Cor. 5. 12. Why iudge you not those who are within Seperate him therefore from amongst you 3 Therfore it is true which we affirm If it be the especiall dutye of the Pastor by the authority of the Eldership to deliuer the holye Sacramentes to the worthy and detayne them from the vnworthy Then vnlesse he should be compelled to gyue them to the vnworthye and with-hold them from the worthy excommunication muste belong to him with his fellow Elders But the first is manifest by these Scriptures Leuit. 10. 11. Zephan 3. 3. They haue polluted the holye thinges And 1. Cor. 11. 26. 27. Wherefore our assertion is true The consequent of the firste part is manyfest because he must deliuer them to all not suspended and excommunicated and to the rest hee must not The consent of the auncient tymes agree vnto this The counsell of Arles 2. Can. 30. authoriseth the suspencion which the Elders and Clearkes decree against the Bishop And they doe it by the authority of auncient decrees Also seeing the councels conclude both generallye that the Bishop shall not proceed in any cause of gouernment Ecclesiasticall without the Elders and that they shall not ordayne without them and that they alone can not so much as gyue leaue to any of the Cleargy to goe vnto the Widowes or Uirgins but with the consent of the Elders it followeth much more that they mighte not excommunicate without them Now the first sort are directly prooued by these Canons following Concil Carthag 4. cap. 23. That the Bishops heare no cause without the presence of his Clearkes otherwise the sentence shall be voyde vnlesse it be confirmed by the presence of the Clearkes And the 22. That the Bishop ordayne not Clearks without the counsell of his clearks so that he seeke the assent and leaue or conniuence testimonie of the citizens Canon 3. An Elder when he is ordayned the Bishop blessing him holding his hand vppon his heade let also all the Elders which are present holde their handes by the handes of the Bishop That the Clearkes or those who containe come not to the Widowes or Virgins but by the commaundement or permission of the Bishops and Elders And Can. 32. That the Elder reconcile not the penitent not hauing asked councell of the Bishop Ierom. ad demetri 1. Epist The Elders in other censures of the Church and the Church hath interest in excommunication Cyprian lib. 3. Epist 19. Speaking of excommunication of which vntill we shall haue vnderstanding what he haue done after which thing when it regardeth the Counsell and sentence of vs all I dare not preiudicate the matter and draw it only to my selfe And lib. 3. epist. 14. epist 15. epist 16. and August speaking of the elders saith because all thinges in tradition of the Lord are done by the holie Ghost therefore when a rule and forme of this Discipline is deliuered vnto them it is sayde vnto them receiue the holy ghost because it doth truly appertaine to ecclesiasticall righte whose sinnes you forgiue c. Of the Doctor or teacher that he is an ordinary and perpetuall officer in the Church of Christ distinct from the Pastor by the Worde of God COncerning which y â— words of y â— answerer are these And I hope that the authour will not heereby gather that by law nowe in force a man is vtterly simplie forbidden to haue an other preach in his cure for then all our new doctours De robe curté who iutrude themselues vppon must bee faine to giue ouer their cloakes and put vp their Pipes fol. 41. If this had bene directed against the particuler persons of some it had beene beyond the rule of charitie and modesty though he should be a Doctor who spake it thus to slaunder any with intrusion and hauing nothing to saye to their doctrine and lyues to gybe at the apparel which they weare in iourney or otherwise vpon occasion being both sober and graue yea when as commonly they vse a gowne with as much grauitie lesse flanting then the most of their Doctors consecrated according to the order of men and not of God But now that it is brought to deface as shall be proued the ordinaunce of God thus without all proofe to flout and to taunt the officers of God beseemeth neither the grauitye of a Cambridge Doctor nor the modesty of a Christian nor the ciuility of an honest man Their intrusion forsooth is this that hauing first according to the order of the Church of England authority to preach they come vpon the earnest desire of the CongregatioÌ„ with the consent of the Pastor vnlesse being no preacher and ignoraunt for enuy he can not beare him to instruct the people with wholsome doctrine out of the true interpretation of the Scriptures their Pipes which he sayth prophanely they may put vp is the Vtteraunce of knowledge a gift of the holy Ghoste which is more sweete to GOD his Children and acceptable to the Lord then al the gilded Organes and Pipes in the Realme For in the spirituall battell their Sound is vncertaine when as these as the Siluer trumpets of Gods sauctuary giue certayne warning to the people to serue the Lorde aright Thus hauing in a worde with as much patience and modesty as the Lord woulde giue me touched not the Salt but vnsauory brine of his floutes hauing no reason of his to deale withall I set downe these following first for profe out of y t scripture then for witnes out of ancient wryters 1 Whatsoeuer the Apostle setting downe the ordinary perpetual members of Christs body in euery particuler Congregation doth make an ordinarie member in the same distintâ—t in his proper workes and action from all the rest the same is a perpetuall ordinary Church-officer 2 But he maketh the Doctor in that reckoning a distinct member hauing a distinct action from all the rest to wit teaching distinguished there from exhortation from gouerning from distributing 3 Wherefore it is plaine that he is a Church-officer ordinary and perpetuall for his giftes and vse are ordinary and perpetuall and also distinguished from the Pastor 1 Whatsoeuer Christe hath giuen to his Church with an ordinary and perpetuall gift for the perpetual work of the ministery gathering and building vp of the Church vnto perfection that is an ordinary Church-officer 2 But so he hath giuen Pastours and Doctors Ephes 4. 11. 3 Therefore both are perpetuall and ordinary officers and by consequent distinct Unto this argument they obiect because the Apostle hauing sayde some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelistes he saith in the last place some Pastors and Teachers which because they are coupled by and they say they
that And so hauing seene his watrâ—sh obiections let vs see howe his side being drunk with the thirst of honour doe contrary them selues in one and the same point For when the place of the Ephesians is broght against an Arrchb. as numbring vp all the Ministries of the Word yet leauing out that the aunswere is it is not perfect for Deacons are left out and in the next page that he speaketh onely of the ministers of the word in the place of the Ephesians And again in the place of the 1. Cor. â—2 The Apostle leaueth out EuangelluÌ„s and yet in the next page out of doubt the diuision of the Apostle there is perfect And yet again pag. 317. It is perfect Heere note that to saye It is not perfect it is perfect it is not perfect of one and the same place and in the same respect are euidently contrarie There is no contradiction betweene this which is sayd that Byshops liuings c be turned to maintain the ministery and yet that noble men being Elders haue no maintenaunce of the Church I can finde no such thing in the sixt Art of French discipline if there were their meaning is y t they may not exercize any dominioÌ„ or cheefedome ouer the Deacons Neither is it any disorder if in an Ecclesiasticall Senate and in the church the minister be preferred before his Lorde to conceiue prayer to propound matters For it is not absurd for one to be superiour and inferiour in diuers respectes the Father inferioure to the Sonne which is aboue him in deliuering the Worde The first place out of Simler is not greatly materiall if they choose some elder to moderate though it belong vnto the Pastour yet it prooueth not but that hee is Superiour in opening the Worde vnto them in chose matters which are debated The next though it bee a geeate blemishe and mayme not to haue an Ecclesiasticall Presoyterye yet it inforceth no contradiction seeing that can-not bee the Presbyterye spoken of in the scripture where by his owne interpretation ministers are vnderstoode His conclusion which hee woulde inferre out of the Discipline of Fraunce that because Magistrates are of the consistorie and to be directed by the Pastour therefore they woulde raunge Princes with their Seniours is diuersly vayne For firste it is no reason seeing the Prince may bee subiect to the Ministery of the Pastor and Elders and yet neuer Subiect or inferiour to theire persons Secondlye it is manifest by their conditions that they meant not the supreame Magistrates when they say If one shall not hinder the exercise of the other Which must needes bee in Princes considering theire multitude of affayres In the Booke of the Souldier of Barwicke If their bee any vnreuerent speache we allowe it not yet if anye Prince will doe anye thing without Gods warrant in Church-matters It must not bee obeyed otherwise whatsoeuer is beyonde this wee condemn as vndiscreete In the next that he mighte make the Discipline enemye to Princes hee turneth vp againe that which sober men long agoe haue left and consented vnto The first is that we wold haue the Ecclesiasticall Senate to administer Ecclesiastical matters Would not Jehosephat also haue the Priestes and Leuits to administer the matters of God And what hath he brought of our bookes which is not as fully set down by those reuerent men of God B. lewell M. Nowell Seeing they say as long as the Ministers bee Godly and learned it is necessary they shoulde deside these matters that the Prince is commaunded to haue recourse vnto them in doubtfull matters that it belongeth to the Byshops office to decide of such causes but Christian Princes haue rather to doe with these matters then ignoraunt and wicked Priestes and that in case of necessitye the Prince ought to prouide for conuenient remedye As for his slaunder that we agree with the Papistes to giue Christian Princes power of fact but not of Lawe and authoritye to promote and set forwarde not to intermeddle in causes Ecclesiasticall Wee esteeme it no more then a fowle vntrueth which euery man of iudgement can conuince For if they haue authority in our iudgement by the Worde of GOD to see to their Ministrye and to cause them to make such Lawes as they knowe agreeable to Gods Worde to authorize such and disanull the contrarye cause them to make good when they woulde make yll or orderlye to procure suche as can and will bee present in the action and giue their consent if it please them all which are giuen by T. C. and by vs all vnto the Magystrate then doe wee graunte them no more then power of fact then to promote matters And in speakinge agaynst vs heerein dothe hee not direct him selfe agaynste the verye Lawes and orders of the Churche Which is that the Conuocation-house doe make Ecclesiasticall Lawes and if they bee good the Queene giueth her royall assent and then they must be obeyed if not then that they are no Lawe His seconde poynte whereby hee woulde make vs odious is that wee thinke the Prince maye bee Subiect to Excommunication that is that hee is a Brother Deutr. 17. 15. Math. 18. 15. that hee is not without but within the Churche 1. Corinth 5. 12. 13. If this be daungerous why is it printed and allowed in the famous writinges of Byshope Iewell in that the Priest doth his office when hee excommunicateth and cutteth off a deade member from the body so farre foorth the Prince bee hee neuer so mighty is inferiour to him yea not onely to a Byshoppe but to a simple Priest Why is it suffered which Master Nowell hath written The Prince ought patiently to abyde Excommunication at the Byshoppes handes Why are not the examples of worthy Emperours rased out of the Hystories seeing they haue beene subiect to this censure Why did the reuerend Father B. of L. reckon vp such examples not long since at Paules Crosse The next cauill is not worth the aunswere for they of Fraunce may call whomsoeuer they thinke good to giue them light in any Question and therefore much more professours of Diuinity So is the next for both they and Bullinger may make teaching generally incident to the Pastors office for so it is common both to Pastour and Doctor yet to apply his speciall gift and labour that way maye bee proper to the teacher or Doctor as is prooued in the treatize of that poynte before The Booke of Bertram I haue not neyther is it materiall if hee differ from trueth in some poynt thorough humane infirmity For they them selues say they condemne the errour of those who saye that Children are damned which dye without Baptisme as much as wee and yet is it written of their side that wante of Baptisme is a probable sign of reprobation WheÌ„ as we say it is no sign at al of reiectioÌ„ This opponing of y â— Admonition and Bertram and y