thē to troble that that remains with our feet is to feed thē the author pursues it yet further to shew the iustice of the sentēce that not only the authority in it self is lawful which we also grant him but also that the vse of it was lawful to whē he saith that there wanted not sundry admonitiōs no nor any one of those things which the reach of iudgmēt requires It was not inough barely to affirm this point he shuld haue proued it as his offer bare vs in hād And who soeuer shal see the state of Venices reasons he shal perceiue it clearly that many and those of the most necessarie and essentiall points in law were wanting it will appeare vnto him that the cause is not for defence of the Ecclesiasticall communities as thy Author affirmes without proofe And if matters lye so cleare as he professes why do they not publish to the world their rights and proceedings Ecclesiasticall in facto and in iure And why do they not lay open to the world to see the proceedings and reasons of the Venetian State and so make them rest conuict It beares no shew that forbidding men to write tends to any such end but in very deede to the end to conceale the truth and to shewe the cause to the world vnder a maske as our Author himselfe doth in this very place when he saith that Paulus Quintus his sentence published against the heads of the Venetian State hath all it requisites and yet the two sentences which were intimated one on the day of the natiuitie and the other on the fiue and twentieth of February do both excommunicate the State it selfe and not the heads as in place it shall appeare I cannot now passe ouer here the consideration of a great skill of the Authors who citing the place of the Councell Sessione 25. Cap 20. makes the Councell say that the Ecclesiasticall immunitie is founded vppon diuine ordination and vpon the constitutions of the sacred Canons This was no place to enter into treaty of that matter neither was it so conuenient with a few ambiguous termes to plant a Doctrine that needes much extension or else will be very subiect to be conuerted to peruert the peaceable State of the holy Church But to say no more at this time but onely so much as may suffice for an Antidot to the Reader it may please him to be aduertised that my Lord Cardinall Bellarmine lib. 1. de Clericis cap. 28. sets downe certaine conclusions of this very point The first is that in causes Ecclesiasticall the Clergie are free de iure diuino frō any secular Princes authority The fift is that the exemption of the Clergy in matters politicall aswel in respect of their persons as of their goods was brought in by the law of man and not of God See then how the Councell intends it when it saith that Ecclesiasticall exemption is instituted iure diuino that is in causes ecclesiasticall And the Author hee should haue translated constitutam ordinatione diuiua instituted by diuine ordination and not haue made it founded for that his first worde seemes to importe that the Canons had authoritie from GOD to institute it and that it is established vpon this foundation but it is nothing so Their exemption in causes spirituall is totally and expresly de iure diuino in other matters is is totally and expresly de iure humano To his example of Saint Thomas I will allowe him well that hee dyed for the Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall but for that which was truly Ecclesiasticall indeede and not for indeuouring to bring to passe that delinquents should not bee punished or that Churchmen should haue so much more possessions then their owne parte and place But if a man should here insteede of the consequence drawne hence by the Author draw the quite contrarie in his owne forme and say And from this consideration any man may gather that Pope Paulus Quintus his sentences thundred out against the Duke the Senate and the State of Venice and all their dominion do want many essenall requisits to omit those that are accidentall and therefore are not to bee feared as beeing not onely voide in forme but vniust the contrarie consequence would bee neuer a whit better prooued by the Author then this is prooued in this place But it is not pertinent to doe it here where we haue nothing else to maintaine but Gersons defence Onely this wee must auowe and say that euerie man is one of Christs sheepe but God hath giuen them a naturall defence if the shephearde shall not follow the institution of the supreame Pastor The eight consideration is Gerson that the abuse of the keyes in the Pope is more dangerous then in inferiour prelates because in case they bee abused by inferiours It is lawfull to appeale to the Pope but from the Pope no appeale is admitted saue onely too a generall counsell which is not so easily assembled And howsoeuer before the Counsell of Constance it was the opinion of many that it was vnlawfull to appeale from the Pope to the Councell yet in that counsell it was expresly declared heresie to deny that the councell was superiour to the Pope Bellarmine This consideration containes a great and manifest errour and hee which did produce it with a purpose to apply it to the businesse now in hand discouereth himselfe not to bee catholiqulie affected It is requisite that I insist somewhat longer vppon this eight consideration not that the matter it selfe doth so require Frier Paulo but the Author hauing made a long and artificiall discourse vpon it it is necessarie that I discouer the secrets and subtilties thereof in such sorte as the reader may not thereby bee carried away from the truth Gerson in this consideration affirmeth that the contempt of the keyes towards the person of the Pope is more dangerous then towards an inferiour the Author inuerts his wordes and maketh him say that the abuse of the keyes in the Pope is more dangerous then in inferiours is this faithfully to reporte the opinion which wee vndertake to confute Gerson speaketh of the contempt of the Popes commaundement in those that are subiect vnto him and saith that that contempt is more daungerous then any towards the commaundements of inferiour Prelates The Author chargeth him to say that the Pope in abusing the keyes doth offend more daungerously then an inferiour prelate so as that which one speaketh of the action of a subiect towarde a superiour The other speaketh of the action of a superiour towards those that are subiect vnto him one speaketh of contempt and that of a subiect the other speaketh of the abuse of the keyes and that in a superiour this consideration of Gerson is in fauour of the Sea Apostolique and sheweth that our proceeding towards it ought to bee accompanied with greater reuerence saying that the contempt thereof is more daungerous then the contempt of others The Author maketh
gathered together with his spirite they should do it It is not therefore repugnant to Chrysostome that to the Bishops and Praesidents may bee also ment of a generall councell Aboue there was also proposed the doubt that tell the Church were as much as to say tell thy selfe As touching the practise which sheweth that tell the Church doth meane the Prelate because recourse is had to the Bishope or his Vicar of the auncient practise I haue spoken to him with the authority of Saint Paul as touching the modern it is true that at this day the Bishope or his Vicar excommunicateth without the aduise or participation of any many times also the Register onely and that which is more important by authority delegated a Clerke of the first tonsure deputed commissary in some very light particular cause doth excommunicate a Priest Yea Leo the tenth in the councell of Lateran in the eleuenth Session by a perpetuall constitution of his hath graunted faculty to a secular person to excommunicate the very Bishoppes and that which doth more import Nauar saith chap. 27. Num. 11. that if any man shall obteine an excomunication of some Prelate if the obteiner shall not haue an intent that the party bee excommunicated hee shall not bee excommunicâ—ted Moreouer the same author saith cap 23. Num. 104. that the excommunication pronounced by the law it selfe against him that payeth not a pension for exaample sake on the vigill of the natiuity is not incurred by him that payeth it not no not in many moneths and yeares after if the creditor thereof would not haue it incurred But if on the other side after many monethes or yeares hee would haue it incurred it is reputed to haue beene incurred from the day of the debt that is from the Vigil of the natiuity and so is the stile of the Court These are the practises which are now in vse of which I say nothing else but that they growe from the interpretation which the author doth approue Gerson The ninth consideration is that contempt of the keyes is not incurred when the Pope doth most enormously and most scandalously abuse his power This consideration is true in it selfe but withall is most iniurious to the holinesse of our Lord and to the holy Sea Apostolique Bellarmine as though it did vse to abuse in such sort the keyes of the kingdome of Heauen Like to this are the arts of the moderne Hereticks who to make the Papall power odious to the world doe spread abroad the most infamous slaunders that the malignity of Satan their head can teach them And the Venetians themselues ought to abhorre and punish such defenders Here it is most easie to defend Gerson seeing hee that handles that which falleth out in a case possible yea and such as hath happened Frier Paolo doth not wrong them which doe well but notes them that doe ill This consideration therefore is not iniurious to the holie Sea Apostolique which neuer doth ill howsoeuer by humaine fragility some sitting in it haue committed some falt whatsoeuer They which write the liues of the Popes and Platina in particular doe recount so many falts that taking the time from 820. downewarde it will bee an hard matter to tell whether the number of the good or of the bad bee the greater It might bee saide by the authors reason that the C. Si Papa of Boniface Martyr is greatly iniurious to the person of Pope Gregorie the second and to the Sea Apostolique where hee saith if the Pope shal bee negligent of the saluation of his brethren vnprofitable and remisse in his actions silent of good and lead innumerable people by heapes vnto Hell no man may reproue him as though Boniface did therefore say that the Apostolique Sea were wont to commit such falts It followeth not neither is it true that the Heretiques alone reprehend their euill actions but much more the Ecclesiasticall writers and the Historians catholique I will not speake of Platina who is all full of it But all the German Historians Regnius Eâ—ithprandus Segebertus Otho of the French Annonius Addo and so the Italians of all times And not to goe seeking the old Frances Guicâ—arden is in euery mans handes though many thinges of that nature haue beene cut out and you may see how hee speaketh There is difference betweene the manner of the Heretiques speaking and that of Gerson they reproue the doctrine Gerson speakes of abuses Whosoeuer shall read Saint Bernard de consideratione ad Eugenium wil not finde fault with foure wordes in Gerson and that considering his considerations are in a necessary cause Euery man may be in a meruaile at such a great contradiction that the consideration of Gerson is true in it selfe and it most iniurious to the Sea Apostolique as though the Sea Apostolique receiued iniury from the truth Hee cannot receiue iniury from the truth that doth not ground himselfe vpon falshood And so likewise that it is true in it selfe but like to the arts of the moderne hereticks as though Gerson now an huÌ„dreth and fifty yeares since could haue learned of the moderne hereticks This is like to the prohibiting of the vse of the diuine scripture because the hereticks serue their turnes with it That the consideration is true in it selfe and that the Venetians ought to abhor it seemeth no very good doctrine to teach to abhor the truth and a truth necessary for the maintenaunce of the liberty and power which God hath giuen them Now the last part where the author saith that they ought to punish such defenders is not well vnderstood I defend at this present the innocency of Gerson but I know not who were his defenders when the author wrote Besides that to punish the defenders of truth seasonably spoken and in a necessary cause is not wont to be done by any just and godly prince and especially by that commonwealth which hath euer professed the Catholicke truth It may bee well saide to him whom a necessary truth displeaseth Euery one that doth ill hateth the light And hee should not say amisse that should say that the doctrine of the author were most iniurious to al the Cleargie and to all the Church because he will not haue him reproued that would ravin the treasures of the church vsurp vpon the possessions or reduce the Clergie with their goods into abiect seruitude or causlesly spoile them of their rights For these are the wordes of Gerson which it had bin well that the author had here produced Gerson The tenth consideration is that they do not incurre contempt of the keies who procure defence for themselus against such pretensed judgements by meanes of the secular power seeing the law of nature teacheth to resist force by force This is a pernicious doctrine and from which infinite Scandals may ensue For although that sentence is true Bellarmine Vim vi repellere licet that is it is lawfull to resist violence with violence yet
for the Prelate I ought not to obey him if it fall out to bee preiudiciall to the profit of my soule though it would proue exceeding greatly behoofefull to those ends which were aimed at by my Prelate The whole error stands in this that we giue power to the Prelate ouer matters temporall and transforme the ecclesiasticall ministery into a secular Court judiciall For to the secular power hath God committed the care of publique tranquillitie and giuen them authority to impose temporall punishments for feare of which it is requisite that wee bee subiect to them which is meant by for wrath besides the commaundement of God which enioyneth vs to obey them which makes vp the other branch for conscience sake But to the Ecclesiastical ministery hath God committed the care of soules which is not to meddle directly with temporall punishments and therefore hath he not commaunded to obey them for wrath Of the temporall power Saint Paul saith For he beareth not the sword without cause but of the ministery ecclesiasticall it is exercised by the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God The conclusion therefore which the author makes that to the Viccar of Christ all Christians are by the law of God obliged to bee subiect obedient is to be meant in things spirituall and appertayning to the saluation of soules and in the court of God and when hee commaundeth according to his diuine law But in temporall thinges absolute Princes are not s biect to any other then to God himselfe from whome their power is immediately deriued And if the weake hold the Pope to be a God and that he hath al power in heauen in earth more pleasing to almighty God is this their weakenes then their strength who seeming to be wise endeuour to abase the authority of the vicar of Christ as at this day all Heretiques do It is not so great a matter that the Pope should be reputed a God vpon earth seeing in the psalme he saith of all Princes I haue said ye are Gods Neither is it incoÌ„uenieÌ„t that one shold say that the Pope hath all power in heauen and in earth seeing Christ hath said whatsoeuer thou shalt bind vpon earth it shal bee bound also in the heauens Which yet is expounded and meant soundly by true and learned Catholiques And in summe I think it may be said with all truth that the power of the high Bishoppe is so great that few men arriue to comprehend it For hee is able to do all that which is necessary to the conducing of soules to Paradise and can take away all the impediments which the world or the Deuil with al their force or craft are able to oppose Whence it is that Saint Cyril cited by S Thomas in his Opuscle de primatu Petri saith that as Christ had from the Father all plenitude of power ouer all the Church so Christ gaue to S. Peter and to his successors all plenitude of power ouer all the Church Frier Paolo Because Gerson saith that they of weake and scrupulous conscience must be instructed who repute the Pope for a God to haue all power in heauen and in earth The Author makes answere that this their weaknes is more pleasing to God then the strength of Heretiques who esteeme themselues wise in despising the authority of the vicar of Christ As if we would contradict him that condemned auarice by saying it more pleaseth God to be a niggard of his own then to spend it in riot other superfluities as though there were not the true meane which is liberality The right maÌ„ner of speech were it lesse displeaseth God to be niggardly then to be prodigal in riot but both displease him The sinne is most grieuous to deny the true authoritie graunted by Christ to his vicar yet his ignorance that giueth him more authority then is conuenient is not praiseable Truth is acceptable to God ignorance when it is inuincible is not good but excusable it implieth great contradiction to say that any false thing pleaseth God The Author beâ—ing accustomed to speake properly might haue said this weaknes of theirs is lesse displeasing to God then the strength of Heretiques and we would haue commended him For so should the truth haue beene vnfolded that neither the one nor the other of the foresaide extreames do please at all And let not the Author think it inconuenient if one should say that it is good to instruct the simple people not to giue more authority to the Pope then that which is right lawfull for so saith S. Gregory 2. Quest 7. and yeelds his reason Admonendi sunt subditi ne plusquam expedit sint subiecti ne cum student plusquaÌ„necesse est hominibus subiici compellantur etiam vitia eorum venerari could this holy personage more plainely confirme the doctrine of Gerson Gerson saith that those who in scrupulosity of conscience take the Pope for a God must not be suffered to rest in their simplicity and S. Gregories words are that subiects must be admonished that they make not themselues more subiect then is conuenient but that which is more of importance giues the reason of it because they are inforced to flatter them in their vices whose subiects they make themselues more then they should be Then can you not err if you adde hereunto that mans custome is to imitate the thinges he reuerenceth and you may conclude it to be both good and necessary to take away this false suggestion That which follows in the Author that it is no great matter though the Pope be thought a God since all Princes haue the stile of Gods hath no inconuenience in it so as we be not ouertaken in the ambiguity of the words but whilst that out of this proposition which hath good sense in it we draw a consequence Papa et Deus constituunt idem tribunal Papae Dei idem consistorium we shall ascribe to him a kind of diety which Gerson doth not allow The Author thinks it no inconuenience to say that the Pope hath all power in heauen and in earth because it is said quodcunque ligaueris superterram erit ligatum in coelis and yet may it appeare to any that this conclusion is not well drawne from this place because power belongs to the actiue property and quodcunque appertaines to the matter If I should say the Parish-priest is he that makes all marriages it doth not therefore follow that he hath all power in matter of marriage For to say quodcunque ligaueris super terram erit ligatum iâ— coelis therefore quocunque modo ligaueris followes not And this is it which Gerson doth not approue and thus do I thinke would the Author himselfe vnderstand it wheÌ„ he saith that thus it is declared and truly vnderstood by true and learned Catholiques because that this proposition The Pope hath all power in heauen and in earth being taken absolutely is false or being tied
saith But in this sense no Prince can make lawes hurtfull to the Church but withall they must be hurtfull to himselfe also who iâ— a principall member of it and hee must needs sinne in so doing Likewise if by the Church he vnderstand the ministers thereof iâ— as much as they be ministers I am of the same opinion But I adde this withall that these lawes of Venice are not any way hurtful or preiudiciall to them but rather as may easily be prooued they tend in some sort to the fauour and benefit of their calling But if by the Church he vnderstand some temporall power or state I denie that the Pope hath any right to hinder or prohibite lawes to be made to the preiudice of the Church in that sense The ambiguitie of the word doth deceiue vs. It is true that no man ought to make lawes that are hurtfull to the Church but this must be vnderstood of the Church in the first or second signification But if a Law be made against carrying of corne to Ancona a Towne of the Popes Dominions this must needes be vnderstood in the third signification And therefore to say that such a Law is against the Church is an Equiuocation In like sort where he saith that the Pope ought not to suffer Christian Princes to make lawes that may hurt or hinder the saluation of mens soules we will put him in remembrance that it is Cardinall Bellarmines owne doctrine That ecclesiasticall persons haue their exemption in criminall causes onely iure humane be it eyther by the graunt of Princes or by the constitutions of Popes or by both together Hereupon I would aske this question whether before such graunts and constitutions were made secular magistrates which punished the offences of Clergy men committed any sin or did any wrong to the Church If it be said they did it cannot be maintayned for they neither brake any lawe of God as both himselfe and other truly hold nor any law of man for there was then no such lawe made et vbi non est lex nec preuaricatio therfore it was no sin It was not against the saluation of mens soules it was no wrong or preiudice to any man why then could not the Popes suffer it so to continue But the Author will say it was so then Perhaps for there was no lawe yet to the contrary But now the lawe is made it is so no longer Then say I they haue stopped and straightned the way to heauen without them it would haue beene more easie and therefore this they haue done is not to edification If it were once lawfull for Princes by punishing such ecclesiasticall persons as did offend to maintaine the publicke peace of their states and to giue satisfaction to the parties grieued without committing any sinne themselues what neede was it or to what purpose to inuent this deuise so contrary to the common good and so likely to breede confusion in all estates whereby the punishing of malefactors which is agreeable to the law of God shall now become sinne to them that doe it Can this auaile any thing to make the way of eternall saluation more easie Can it bee for the good of wicked clergy-men themselues who take the more liberty and boldnes hereby to doe euill Can it bee of any vse in respect of them that are iniured or do they not rather by this occasion conceiue the deeper malice and practise priuate reuenge Do the Princes reape any good by it whose states and gouernments are disordered and disturbed thereby Or can it bee any credyt or reputation to such Clergy men as are good and vertuous that the lewde should continue amongst them Is God honoured and glorified by any but such as bee obedient to his lawes But here I foresee an obiection that by this opinion I seeme to dislike all those immunities and exemptions which so many Princes worthy of euerlasting memorie haue graunted to the Clergye in Criminall causes No I am so farre from disliking them as I doe much commend them and propose them as worthy patterns to be followed by all Princes present and to come But this is that which I say That if wee beginne at Constantine the great and goe along to Constantine the sonne of Irene and from him through all the greeke Emperours vntill the finall destruction of that Empire and among the Latines from Charles the great to Fridericke the second inclusiue wee shall not finde that any Prince did euer exempt the Clergy from his owne authoritie But all the exemptions they graunted were from their inferiour offiicers and Magistrates some from all and other from some onely And some in certaine kindes of offences and other in all respectiuely But there remayned still vnto the Princes themselues that supreame authority which could not bee seuered from them Now so as offences be punished to what Magistrate it shall belong to doe it and to what not and ouer what persons hee shall haue authority and ouer whom hee shall not it belongs to the Prince to appoint according to the congruety and fitnesse of tymes places and matters And accordingly wee see that when the state of their affaires so requires it Princes doe sometimes graunt priuiledges and exemptions vnto souldiors and sometimes to men of other conditions In like sorte when it is requisite for the planting or propagating of religion in their dominions they are content to giue conuenient priuiledges and exemptions to ecclesiasticall persons and therein they deserue to bee much commended as I doe highly commend all tha forenamed Princes and likewise the common wealth of Venice which though not by a written lawe yet by a laudable vse and practise hath exempted Ecclesiasticall persons from the ordinary Magistrate in ordinary crimes and such as cary no enormity with them But for such a Lawe as shall take away from a Prince all authority to punish offences euen when the necessitie and peace of his state doth require it I doe not see how any man can eyther allowe it or account it agreeable to the lawe of GOD or nature It followeth not therefore that because wee commend many holy priuiledges which Princes haue graunted in this kinde wee must of necessitie commend also an exorbitant exemption which tends so directly to the confusion and generall disturbance of the state Therefore let vs conclude that it is true that the Pope neither can nor ought to giue permission or allowance of any of those thinges which in their owne nature are euill and opposite to the saluation of mens soules and which though hee should permitte them would neuerthelesse continue to bee sinnes and exclude him that doth them from attaining saluation And surely those Popes are worthy of exceeding praise that haue indeauored to remooue such abuses and other things forbidden by God which remayning make it impossible for men to bee saued These many yeares the worlde hath sighed and groaned for such a reformation and so many a time haue they
centum Nintie and nine are a kind of hundreth And this I had not noted if he himself had not plaied the toto harsh Censor against Gersons translator where he deserued it not but to returne to the sense and meaning Reader behold his cunning all sins are against God but some touch his diuine Maiestie immediately as the blaspheming of his name Idolatry and such like other are against our neighbour immediately for this cause against God as are adultery murther theft now of this latter sort are both those sins we feare of Disobedience of the subiect towards his superior immediatly is against a man and in the end it reacheth vnto God The tyrannicall gouernmēt of the superiour bends immediatly against the subiect but mediately against God Our Author to delude our simplicity when he is to speak of the abuse of authoritie saith it is but against a subiect when he speakes of disobedience he saith it offends Gods Maiestie in his vicar If a man to incounter him should say The Prelate that abuseth his authority offends God in his Creature he that contemnes excommuninication offends a man what could he replie But let vs proceede syncerely and lay these things togither euenly Disobedience offends God in the superior he that abuseth the authority giuē by god offends God in the subiect Now let vs see if these two offences made to God whether is greater S. Thomas who often makes the comparison of sins betweene themselues saith alwaies that sin is a priuation of that which is good and therefore that a sinne is so much the greater the greater that the good is which is depriued by it The reader may see for this in 2. a 2. a quaestione 150. art 154. art 3. 39. art 2. and in many other places Now the good which disobedience depriues a man of is the priuate good of a subiect which is the vertue of his obodience the good which the abusing of authority depriues vs of is the good gouernance of the Church This is a farre greater good aswell for that a publike good is greater then a priuate as also for that to commaund well is a greater vertue then to obey well and this is the reason vpon which Gerson is grounded which is found and stands not vpon authorities forced from their proper states He that would yet further consider of the grieuousnesse of a sinne by the mischiefe that insues vpon it or by the person that committeth it howsoeuer these be but accidentall considerations and we ought therefore to ground vpon the former and not on them yet neuerthelesse one abuse of power authoritie giues a greater scandall to the world and is a cause of greater mischiefe then a hundreth disobediences and the person of the superiour as the more eminent is much more bound by his greater obligation to God to doe his duty Secondly Bellarmine I say that although in some case it may be meritorious to resist a Prelate to his face yet for the most part it is a thing of much scandall and of most grieuous excesse And to apply this consideration to the present purpose to incite thē that are subiect to dispise the commandements of Christs vicar it is a thing not to be indured For Saint Paul made no resistance against Saint Peter in matter of obedience but in matter of a certaine obseruation legall and it pleased God to shew the world S. Peters humility to permit that in a certain article of legall obseruance S. Paul should be illuminated beyond S. Peter to S. Peter willingly accepted S. Pauls brotherly correction specially for that S. Paule was an Apostle and no lesse full of the holy ghost then S. Peter himselfe but in matter of obedience and reuerence we are to know that S. Paule alwaies exhorteth those that are subiect to obey their Prelates and he himselfe came in person to Ierusalem to visit S. Peter and to conferre with him touching the gospell he preached notwithstanding that he had it by reuelation as himselfe testifies in the first chapter of the Epistle to the Galathians Now what consequence were this Saint Paule an Apostle and an elect vessell tooke vpon him to admonish S. Peter Ergo the people shall doe a meritorious worke to resist the supreame Bishop to his face though he commaund them vnder paine of Excommunication This should not be the consequence of a good Logician but of a peruerse scismaticke I see not why it should be heere laid in for a second opposition against Gerson Gerson that although it be sometimes meritorious to resist a Prelate yet it is ordinarily a thing of much scandall since Gersons words be that sometimes it is a thing meritorious and turnes to the honour of the power Ecclesiasticall that resistance be made to such a Prelate with such a moderation as extends not the bounds of a lawful defence as S. Paul opposed himself to S. Peter The Author to my vnderstāding hath said in effect the same with Gerson but that Gerson hath with all integrity expressed all that was to be said in this point hauing added the limitation of such a defence as was not to be reproued for some thinks Gersons Latine phrase is more clearely expressed Cum oppositione inculpatae tutilae If the defence be vnreproueable what would the Author haue more who will be so rash to say that in an vnreproueable defence there may be scandal or excesse Let not the Author come in here with his ordinarily or for the most part it is a scandal for we will maintaine it vniuersally by his fauour that whensoeuer there shall be a notorious abuse of iurisdiction in the Prelate an irreproueable defence in the subiect it shall alwaies hold true that it is a meritorious deed to resist And this is the very case which Gerson vnderstands when he saith sometimes and limits it besides as we see with those goulden words so that where the Author saith that in some case it may be meritorious it sounds to me that heere is put in by way of opposing against Gerson a flat confirmation of Gersons owne opinion But the Author followes it further To apply this consideration to the matter in question that is a thing not to be indured This makes nothing against Gerson but against the Interpretor as though when he had translated the twelue Considerations he had said with all that all the twelue made expresly for the case in hand He should haue done well to haue set downe the whole booke intier as it lies and then it had beene the Readers part to apply that which is to be aplied By the same manner of dealing because Gerson saith in his ninth consideration If the Pope would seaze vpon the Churches treasure or vsurp vpon it inheritance or reduce all the Clergy their goods into seruitude or spoyle them of their rights without cause the Author may obiect it against the Interpretor that he hath applied all this to the
the family ouer him Saint Cyprian saith that the supreame power of choosing such Priests as are worthie and refusing vnworthy doth principally rest in the people and if the author will read the place he shall perceiue that hee speaketh of Bishoppes particularly though in the wordes alledged he mentioned Priests and withall that it is not onely Cyprians Epistle but the Epistle of 36. Bishoppes and written to the common people of Leon Asturia and Emerita and if hee will let him read the 14. Epistle of the 3. Booke such authorities as these wee ought to alledge for the maintenance of our cause and not come in with such misticall and those inforced explications as the author doth in this place where if he had bin disposed to deale sincerely hee should haue alledged that place of Saint Luke intirely Quis putat est fidelis dispensator prudens quem constituit Dominus super familiam suam vt det illis in tempore tritici mensuram and then it maketh against the author for this seruant cannot bee a generall dispenâ—er of all the Lords treasure to whom he hath committed nothing saue onely the distribution of the Corne there are many other things to bee distributed as meat drinke and apparrell all which his Lord will commit vnto him if hee behaue himselfe faithfully in this particular office for thus he saith Beatus ille Seruus quem cum venerit dominus inuenerit ita facientem vere dico vobis quoniam super omnia quae possidet constituet illum Let him read the place and see whether it can receiue any other interpretation If either the Pope or any other to whome the charge of all thinges is already committed be that faithfull Steward what are those other thinges which shal afterwardes bee committed vnto him for hauing so wel discharged his duty in this administration if the author will say that wee are to vnderstand those wordes of the Coelestiall Paradise wee must answere that the charge thereof is peculiar to Christ and the Angels the holy Popes entring into the kingdome of heauen receiue from God a rewarde of their labours but their gouernments they leaue behinde them and are for euer exempted from labour as for the wordes that follow Quod si dixerit seruus ille in corde suo c. From whence the author will gather that if Gods high Steward doth misbehaue himselfe hee reserueth the punishment of him to himselfe and will not impart it to his family I answere that the consequence doth not hold in all Stewards neither can the example which hee bringeth of a vice roy availe him to this purpose it is one thing when the father of a family being absolute Lord of it doth commit the gouernment to another but if the father of the family shall giue leaue to his family to choose them a gouernour with such and so great authority ouer their Maisters treasure as hee himselfe shall set downe it is a case of far different consideration in like sort different it is when a King who hath no dependence of his kingdomes shal constitute a Vice-roy and when he giueth leaue to his subiects to choose theÌ„ one with such authority as hee himselfe shall prescribe for in the first case I acknowledge that the family hath no power ouer their gouernour nor the subiects ouer the Vice-roy but in the 2. case as the family hath power to institute him so hath it also power to censure his actions And the subiects in like sort the actions of the Vice-roy and as the Cardinall Bellarmine saith that the authority which the Church hath of choosing the Pope is nothing els but an applying of the power to the person so Gerson in his book which he writeth vpon this occasion saith that when the Church doth iudge the Pope it doth no more but separate the power from that person if Christ had so instituted the Popes as it should haue bin in their powers to appoint their successors peraduenture that might haue followed which the author would inferre that the Church should haue no power ouer the Pope but hee which affirmeth that God hath giuen power to the Church to annexe power to the person should also haue shewed that it hath not the selfe same authority to remoue it but the common doctrine that the pope hath no authority of electing a successor doth euedently declare that he is not a gouernor of the first sort deputed immediatly from the father of the family but of the secoÌ„d elected of the family by the fathers appointment and with this doctrine doth Gerson answere that of Pasce oues meas and all other places of Scripture like vnto it Namelie that although hee which is by the owner appointed to bee ouer the flocke is not subiect to the flocke yet if it be such a flocke as hath power to chuse a sheepheard the sheapheard when he is chosen shall be subiect vnto it the faithfull flocke of Christ ought to resemble sheepe in humblenesse and innocencie yet ought they not to be so sheepish or foolish as to forgoe the authority which their owner hath bestowed vpon them either of choosing them a good sheapheard or of judging a wicked Saint Augustine doth proue with reasons vnanswerable that doctrines are to be grounded only vpon the literall sense of the scripture and not vpon any mysticall interpretation whosoeuer will read all that chapter shall easily vnderstand the meaning of our Sauiour and the literall sense of the Gospell Hee spake to his disciples and consequently to all Christians beginning at those words about the middle of the chapter dixitque ad discipulos suos that they should not take thought for the things of this world because God had prepared another kingdome for them that they should be watchfull in wel doing as not knowing wheÌ„ the Lord will cal that if the goodman of the house knew at what hower the thiefe would come hee should find him watching in like sort they should be prepared because Christ will come at an hower when we thinke not then Peter said vnto him Master tellest thou this parable to vs or euen to all Christ replied who thinkest thou is that dispensator fidelis prudens c. inferring therby that he spake to all whereas if it had bin spoken onely to his Viccar it would follow that the commaundement of watching of not regarding the thinges of this world of waiting for the kingdome of heauen and the vnexpected comming of Christ should haue beene giuen to him alone but because such commaundements as these are equally giuen to all the faithfull the litterall meaning is that they all are these faithfull stewards which God hath commaunded to exercise their charity by imparting their goods and other abilities which God hath bestowed vpon them to the rest of his familie this is that measure of wheate and that office for the faithfull administration whereof God will multiplie his blessinges vpon them this then as all interpreters
incidentally in a decree without the compasse of the principall which is intended to dâ—fine â—ut in the Bâ—ll whereof wee speake the intent is onelie to disanull the Pragmatick and this is the substance of the decree Now whereas in disanulling it answer is made to him that maintained it by virtue of the councell of Basill and it is said that the councell it selfe was remoued by Eugenius and that therfore it is of no validitie seeing the Pope hath power to transfer the councels as he that hath authority aboue them this doth not appertaine to the substance of that Bull but is an auoiding of a contrarie reason and is not therefore a determination For which cause very well the Lord Cardinall Bellarmine in the second place alledged hath reuoked that which he had saide in the first that is that that councell hath most expresly determined and hath said that it is in doubt whether that be a determination The common iudgement of all the divines is that the reasons which are vsed in a determination are not intended themselues also to be determined And it should be a maruailous strange matter that framing a decree of a particular thing such as is the reuocation of the Pragmatick which is no matter of Faith an article of Faith should incidentally be determined so that the principall should not be of Faith and the accessary should of necessity bee of Faith The Parisians adde farther that to proue that the Bishop of Rome hath authoritie aboue the Councell there are brought in that place a number of histories not so few as fifteene and lastly the book of Aimarus de Synodis whereupon we were to say that all those histories were de fide And the Parisians shew plainely that some of those histories recited faithfully do say the contrary But it woulde be too long here to produce so many particulars Some also mak answere that the Bull doth not say that the Pope hath authority aboue the Councels but it saith that it is to be auerred out of the diuine scriptures and out of the sayings of the Fathers and Bishops of Rome and Canons Councels that the Bishop of Rome hath authority aboue the generall Councels so that it is not intended to be otherwaies true then so far forth as that auerment may be iustified Therefore first that proofe must be produced Quatenus inde constat and the sense of the scriptures and sayings of the Fathers must be seene seeing the Councell doth not affirme it as of it selfe but with reference that is so farre forth as the scripture and those other thinges alledged make proofe thereof An other doctor proposeth another difficulty much greater that in the beginning of the Bull of this Councell it is said that Christ ordained Peter and his successors to be his vicars vnto whom as is testified in the book of Kings obedience is so necessary that hee which doth not obay is to dye the death Which if it bee an article of faith is a very seuere one that all disobedience to the Pope shold be punished with death And certainely the worlde hath not receiued it neither happily euer will The same Doctor addes farther that he cannot conceiue how so many yeares before there was any Pope there should be speech of him in the book of Kings Afterward he saith that he hath read all the 4. books of the Kings and neuer yet found there any such matter But let vs leaue the authority of this Councell seeing the Doctors which follow Gerson do not receiue it And each of the eight answeres made vnto it doth of it selfe dissolue the argument For a conclusion the author brings forth as it were for an Achilles a reason founded vpon the word of God saying But let vs see if the reason founded vpon the word of God Bellarmine doe testifie the selfe same verity The holy Church is not like to the Common-wealth of Venice or of Geneua or of other Citties which conferre vpon their Duke that power which themselues please in regarde whereof it may be sayde that the Common-wealth is aboue the Prince neither yet is it like to an earthly kingedome in which the people transfer their owne authority vnto the Monarck and in certaine cases may free themselues from Royall dominion and reduce themselues to the gouernment of inferiour Magistrats as did the Romanes when they passed from dominion Royal to Consulare gouernment For the Church of Christ is a most perfect kingedome and an absolute Monarchie which hath no dependance vpon the people neither from them had his originall but dependeth onely vpon the diuine will And I saith Christ in the second Psalme am constituted a King by him ouer Sion his holy mountaine And the holy Angell said to the virgin Luc. 1. Our Lord God shall giue him the seat of Dauid his Father and he shall raigne in the house of Iacob for euer and of his kingdome there shal be no end And in a thousand other places the same is read And that this kingdome doth not depend on men Christ sheweth when he saith you chose not me but I chose you Ioan. 15. And we shall ackhowledge it at what time we shall say thou hast made vs to our God a Kingdome Apoc. 5. And this is the cause why this kingdome is in the Scriptures resembled to a family Who is a faithfull and wise seruant whom his Lord hath appointed ouer his family Mat. 24. because the father of a family doth not depend on the family neither from thence hath his authority Now this being most true there followeth thereof by necessary consequence that the Vicar generall of Christ doth not depend of the Church but onely of Christ from whom he hath his whole authority as also wee see in earthly kingdoms that the Viceroy hath not his authority from the kingdom but from the King neither can be iudged or punished by the people but only by his Lord Master Behold therefore how Gerson is deceiued and he also that doth follow him and goeth contrarie to the doctrine of the holy scriptures of the sacred Councels and of manifest reason â—rier Paolo Thou shalt see here Reader a meruailous peece of Art wherewith the Author will leade thee from Christ the eternall high Bishop to an high Bishop Temporall and when he shall haue setled with thee the relation which the holy Church hath towards the diuine maiestie he will afterward conclude of the relation towards the Pope The Parisians do answere that thus the doctrine of the Catholiques doth hold that God hath called the Church to the faith and his worship and that he hath placed Christ ouer it for an head for euer who first himselfe mortall did gouerne it on earth with corporal presence but ascended into heauen doth rule it with inward influence assistance inuisible vnto the end of the world This is meant by I am constituted a King by him This meaneth that our Lord God shall
from the true meaning The Councell ordaineth that the Secular magistrats shal not forbid the Ecclesiastical to excōmunicate any nor cause them to reuoke their excommunication already thundered vnder pretext not to haue the things contained in that decree obserued And the Author saith the sacred Councell of Trent hath prouided expressely forbidding Secular Princes that they hinder not the Prelates so that they may not excommunicate nor command that the excommunications already gone forth be reuoked Now this is not the meaning of the Councell For first he concealeth the condition which followeth that is vnder pretext not to haue the present decree obserued which as we haue shewed before doth not forbid that it may bee done for some other cause Then because the Councell saith whatsoeuer Secular Magistrate and our Author altereth it saying secular Princes But euery lawyer will tell him that in odious matter the name of magistrate comprehendeth not the Prince Next because the Councell speaketh of a prohibition and commaund iudiciall and our Author bringeth it against resistance naturall which he himselfe in the place alledged lib. 2. de Rom. Pont. cap. 29. hath denyed to be an Act of Iurisdiction So that to alledge that place of the Councell to the matter now in hand is threefoldly to falsifie the meaning of it Gerson The eleuenth consideration is that contempt of the keyes is not incurred when some Lawyer or Diuine in his conscience doth say that such kinde of sentences are not to bee feared especially if due information bee obserued with warinesse that no scandall thereon ensue to the weake who repute the Pope for a God who hath all power in Heauen and in earth c. This consideration to speake modestly of it Bellarmine is very little considerate For Gerson should haue saide at least that an ignorant person in doubtfull matters might relie himselfe vpon the iudgement of a Diuine or a Lawyer that caryed a name of great learning and honesty But that hee may relie himselfe vpon what Diuine or Lawyer so euer especially in matter of obedience to the High Bishoppe is an exceeding great rashnesse For it is not doubtfull but most certaine that in doubtfull thinges a man is to obey his superior And then onely hee is not to obey when it is cleere and certaine that the superiour commaundeth thinges contrary to the commaundement of God And besides how many Diuines and Lawyers may a man finde that through ignorance or malice may bee deceiued And if one teach thee one way and an other the contrary on whom wilt thou relie Secular Princes would in no wise suffer that when they haue passed a sentence the party condemned might excuse himselfe from obeying it because a Lawyer or a Diuine hath told him that in his conscience that sentence were not to be performed How much lesse then ought this to bee suffered in case of obedience to the Vicar of Christ to whome all Christians by the law of God are bound to be subiect and obedient Frier Paolo In this eleuenth consideration the Author modestly maketh an invectiue against Gerson wishing that at least wise he had saide that an ignorant person in doubtfull matters might relie himselfe vpon the iudgement of a Diuine or a Lawyer that caryed a name of great learning and honesty as though any man euer went to a Counsellor for a matter certaine Be a man as ignorant as it is possible to bee hee will neuer aske counsell nor enter into consultation about that which hee holdeth for certaine and out of all question The Author afterward doth not conteine himselfe within those bounds of modesty which he promised in the beginning and saith that it is exceeding great rashnesse to say that hee may relie himselfe vpon what Diuine or Lawyer soeuer as though it were saide in the translation vpon whomsoeuer or in the Latin cuilibet But Gerson saith aliquis in the Latin and the translation saith Some That whomsoeuer seemeth to signifie be he who he list be either learned or ignorant a man of conscience or consciencelesse which is not to bee so vnderstood For he that sendeth a man to one as to a Counsellor intendeth to addresse him alwayes to such an one as hath knowledge sufficient of that which is to bee aduised on And Gerson doth expresly so deliuer when he saith some Lawyer or Diuine in his conscience Conscience especially with Gerson includeth knowledge and honesty whereof there is a tract of his extant to bee seene Therefore when Gerson saith that he may relie vpon the conscience of a Lawyer or a Diuine hee meaneth of one held to bee of sufficient honesty and knowledge And this ought not displease the author because the new writers also such as are counted the best learned doe maintaine the very same opinion And here it shall suffice me to alledge vnto him Nauar who vpon the chapter cum contingal de rescript Rem 2. Num. 30. saith formerly Ninthly it is inferred that the Canons of the Church B. securely might and ought communicate in Diuine duties with the foresaide E. vpon that reason that hee who doth anie thing following the authority of a Doctor famous for his learning and godlines of mind is excused though perhaps that fall not to bee right done and though other should hold the contrary He alleadgeth many Doctors vpon this point and proceedeth which also they acknowledge sufficiently to bee particularly of force to excuse from violating of Censures And for this point also he alleadgeth many other I will not forbeare to add here also that those wordes when some Diuine or Lawyer c. ought to bee taken either singularly or collectiuely according to the waightinesse of the matter so that in some case the counsell of one will suffice and in an other case is to bee sought the counsell of two and three and foure and in some perhaps an hundred mens counsaile shall bee requisit In this present controuersie though for the matter it bee easie and cleere this Common-welth hath taken the counsell of manie both within Italy without so that he needeth not to insist vpon that worde Some But the author would shew that in matter of obedience to the Pope no recourse at all ought to bee had to counsellors because in thinges doubtfull wee are to obey our superiour Which reason doth proue that wee may neuer in any case haue recourse to a counsellor because in a case doubtfull we must chuse the secure part and who so maketh that choise shal bee free from fault and error and therefore wee must neuer take counsell at all Here wee may not suffer our selues to be deceiued by ambiguity of the word doubtfull But wee must say as wee haue before shewed that doubtfull is taken in two sorts either doubtfull beefore counsell or so that after all diligent aduise it still remaine doubtfull In the first case I say that it is a sinne to obey our superior because it is a