as truely saie The Pope hathe no Povver ouer Goddes causes S. Chrysostome saithe Siquidem est in Causa Fidei fuge illum euita non solùm si homo fuerit verùm etiam si Angelus de Coelo descenderit If it be a Mater of Faith wherein he séeketh to abuse thée flee him and shunne him not onely if he be a man but also if an Angel should comme down from Heauen Thus it appeareth S. Ambrose refused not the Emperours Povver and Authoritie of Iudgemente in Cases Ecclesiastical but onely his wilful Ignorance his Tyrannie For that he knewe his Iudgemente was corrupted and not indifferente And for that cause he saithe Venissem Imperator ad Consistorium Clementiae tuae c. O my Lorde I woulde haue made mine appearance at your Consistorie to haue vttered these thinges in your Presence if either the Bishoppes or the People woulde haue suffered me For thei tolde me that Maters of Faith ought to be disputed in the Churche openly before the people Againe he saithe Veniant sanè si qui sunt in Ecclesiam Audiant cum Populo nō vt quisquā resideat Iudex sed vt vnusquisque de suo affectu habeat examen eligat quem sequatur Let them hardely comme to the Churche let them hearken togeather with the People not that any man should sitte as Iudge but y◠euery man mai after his own minde examine the mater so chuse whom he maie folow Of sutche Tyrannie in Councelles Athanasius likewise complaineth Quo iure cōtra nos Synodum vllam constituere potuerunt Aut qua fronte talem Conuentum Synodum appellare audent cui Comes Praesedit Vbi Spiculator apparebat Vbi Commentariensis siue Carcerarius pro Diaconis Ecclesiae aduentantes introducebat Comes imperio vtebatur Nos à Militibus ducebamur By what Lawe coulde they keepe a Councel againste vs Or with what face coulde they calle sutche an Assemblie by the name of a Councel Where as the Lorde Lieutenante was Presidente Where the Hangeman was Apparitoure Where the Iailer presented the suiters in steede of the Deacons of the Churche The Lieutenante did al thinges by Authoritie and Commaundement VVee were taken by the Souldiers and carried to Prison Therefore he saithe Fiat Ecclesiastica Synodus longè à Palatio vbi nec Imperator praesto est nec comes se ingerit nec Iudex minatur vbi Solus Timor Dei ad omnia sufficit c. Let there be made an Ecclesiastical Synode far from the Emperours Palaice where as neither the Emperoure is Present nor the Lieutenante thrusteth in him selfe nor the Iudge with his threates maketh menne afraide but where as the feare of God to al pourposes is sufficiente For this cause S. Ambrose refused to be tried by the Emperoure Valentinian That is to saie as then it was by a rasshe yong man by a man Vnbaptized and therefore no Christian by a Tyranne and by an Arian Heretique that vtterly denied the Godhedde of Christe Otherwise Athanasius him selfe was wel contented to committe his whole cause vnto the Emperoure For thus he saithe Postulamus causam istam Pientissimo Imperatori reseruari apud quem licebit iura Ecclesiae nostra proponere Planè enim confidimus eius Pietatem cognitis nostris rationibus nequaquam nos coudemnaturam esse VVee require that the Emperoures moste godly and moste Religious Maiestie maie haue the hearinge of the same mater Before whom we maie open bothe our Churches Right and also our owne For wee haue good hope that his Godlinesse vnderstandinge our Reasons wil neuer condemne vs. Likewise S. Augustine saithe vnto the Donatian Hereriques An fortè de Religione fas non est vt dicat Imperator vel quos miserit Imperator Our ergo ad Imperatorem vestri venere legati Cur eum fecerunt Causae suae Iudicem Is it not lawful for the Emperoure or his Deputee to geue Sentence in a mater of Religion VVherefore then went your Embassadours to the Emperoure Why made they him the Iudge of their cause Thus M. Hardinge it appeareth that you in defraudinge Emperours and Kinges of theire Emperial and Princely Right are faine to take parte with the Donatian Heretiques As for vs wée claime no other right in Ecclesiastical Causes vnto our Christian Princes this daie then that maie wel appeare hathe benne iustely vsed bothe by Constantinus the Emperoure and also by other Catholique and Godly Princes The Emperoure Theodosius wrote thus vnto the Councel of Chalcedon Quoniam scimus Magnificentissimum Florentium Patritium esse Fidelem probatum in Recta Fide volumus eum interesse audientiae Synodi quoniam sermo de Fide est For that wee knowe the moste Noble Florentius to be faitheful and wel approued in the Right Faithe therefore wee wil that he be presente at the hearing and debatinge of Cases in the Councel for as mutche as the Disputation is of the Faithe For Pope Nicolas himselfe saithe as it is alleged before Fides Vniuersalis est Fides omnium Communis est Fides nō solùm ad Clericos verùm etiam ad Laicos ad omnes omninò pertinet Christianos Faithe is Vniuersal Faithe is common to al Faithe perteineth not onely vnto Priestes but also vnto Laiemenne and generally to al Christians As touching the Pope and his Vniuersalitie of Povver in and ouer al Councelles of Bishoppes wée maie rightly saie as Athanasius saithe of Constantius the Arian Emperoure Obtendit in speciem Episcoporum Iudicium sed interim facit quod ipsi libet Quid opus est Hominibus Titulo Episcopis He maketh a shew of Iudgementes or Determinations of Bishoppes In the meane while he doothe what he listeth him selfe VVhat are wee the neare for these menne that beare onely the name of Bishoppes Sutche commonly be the Popes Prelates What so euer Learninge they haue bisides Diuinitie is commonly the least parte of theire studie And therefore when they are assembled in Councel they maie wel iudge by Authoritie but not by Learninge Verily Luitprandus saithe Imperator vti experientia didicimus intelligit negotia Dei facit amat ea tuetur omnibus viribus Ecclesiasticas res Ciuiles Sed Iohannes Papa facit contra haec omnia Wee see by experience that the Emperoure vnderstandeth Goddes causes and fauoureth and perfourmeth the same and with al his Power mainteineth bothe Ecclesiastical and Temporal maters But Pope Iohn dooth al the contrarie The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 6. The Emperoure Iustinian made a Lawe to correcte the behaueour of the Cleregie to cutte shorte the insolente Iewdenesse of the Priestes And albeit hee were a Christian and a Catholique Prince yet putte hee downe from theire Papal Throne twoo Popes Syluerius and Vigilius notwithstandinge they were Peters Successours and Christes Vicars M. Hardinge Iustinians lawe concerninge good order to be kepte amonge Pristes morally was
good and bound them by the force of reason If he made any other Lawe touchinge matters of Religion Pope Ioannes then beinge approued it or at the leste Iustianian asked approbation thereof as it maie appeare in his owne Epistle wherein he confesseth in the facte it selfe that his Lawes could not binde in supernatural causes belonginge to faithe except the heade of the Vniuersal Churche confirme them Syluerius and Vigilius were deposed rather by Theodora the Emperesse then by Iustinian the Emperoure Ye do wronge to impute that wicked tyrannie vnto him He is not to be burthened there with onlesse the man be countable for his wiues iniquities Howe so euer it was that extraordinary violence and tyrannie can not iustly be alleaged to the defence of your false assertion Neither woulde your selfe haue mentioned the same if ye coulde haue founde better matter As hungrie Dogges eate durty puddinges accordinge to the prouerbe cleane yenough for sutche vncleane writers so your fowle matters be defended by fowle factes The B. of Sarisburie Iustinian yée saie might wel make somme Moral Lawe to keepe Priestes and Bishoppes in good order Wherein neuerthelesse Pope Paule 3. condemneth you vtterly For thus he writeth and reasoneth substantially against the Emperoure Charles the Fifthe Ecce ego super Pastores meos Beholde saithe Almighty God I mee selfe wil ouersee my Sheepheardes Ergo saithe Pope Paulus The Emperoure maie not deale with the manners of Priestes and Bishoppes How be it the Emperours made Lavves Touchinge the Holy Trinitie Touchinge the Faithe Touchinge Baptisme Touchinge the Holy Communion Touchinge the Publique Praiers Touchinge the Scriptures Touchinge the keepinge of Holy daies Touchinge Churches Chaples Touchinge the Consecration of Bishoppes Touchinge Non Residences Touchinge Periurie c. It were mutche for you M. Hardinge to saie as nowe yée woulde séeme to saie Al these were Moral Lawes and perteined onely to good order But the Pope yee saie allowed the Emperours Ecclesiastical Lawes Otherwise of the Emperours owne Authoritie they had no force The truthe hereof by the Particulares maie soone appeare By one of the Emperours Lavves it is prouided That the Bishop of Constantinople shal haue Equal Povver and Prerogatiue with the Bishop of Rome This Lavve the Pope coulde neuer brooke And yet that notwithstandinge Liberatus saithe It holdeth stil by the Emperours Authoritie whether the Pope wil or no Againe it is prouided in the same Lavve that the Churches of Illyricum in their doubteful cases shal appeale to Constantinople not to Rome The Emperoure Constantine saithe If the Bishop moue trouble by Doctrine or otherwise by my hande he shal be pounished For my hande is the hande of Goddes Minister Iustinian the Emperoure in his Lavve commaundeth That the Prieste or Bishop in pronouncinge the Publique Praiers and in the Ministration of the Sacramentes lifte vp his voice and speake alowde that the people maie saie Amen and be sturred to more Deuotion Againe he saithe as it is noted in the Glose vpon the Authentiques Papa Temporalibus immiscere se non debet The Pope maie not intermeddle with Temporal Causes In the same Lawes the same Emperoure Iustinian saithe Wee Commounde the moste Holy Archebishoppes and Patriarkes of Rome of Constantinople of Alexandria of Antioche and of Hierusalem The same Emperoure Iustinian commaundeth That al Monkes either be driuen to studie the Scriptures or els be forced to Bodily Laboure Carolus Magnus made a Lavve That nothinge shoulde be readde openly in the Churche sauinge onely the Canonical Bookes of the Holy Scriptures And that the Faitheful People shoulde receiue the Holy Communion euery Sonnedaie I leaue the rehearsal of infinite other like Examples Nowe M. Hardinge wil you saie or maie wee beleue that al these and other like Lavves were allowed by the Pope In déede your Gloser saithe Ad quid intromittit se Imperator de Spiritualibus vel Ecclesiasticis cùm sciat ad se non pertinere VVherefore doothe the Emperoure thus busie him selfe with these Spiritual or Ecclesiastical maters seeinge he knoweth they are no parte of his Charge To so profounde a question after a longe solemne studie he diuiseth this answeare Dic quòd Authoritate Papae hoc facit Scie thou that he doothe it by the Popes Authoritie And then the whole mater is discharged and al is wel Notwithstandinge somme likelihoode hereof yee would seeme to geather euen out of Iustinians owne woordes For thus he saithe vnto the Pope although far otherwise then you haue forced him to saie Omnia quae ad Ecclesiarum statum pertinent approued in the Right Faithe therefore wee wil that he be presente at the hearing and debatinge of Cases in the Councel for as mutche as the Disputation is of the Faithe For Pope Nicolas him selfe saithe as it is alleged before Fides Vniuersalis est Fides omnium Communis est Fides nō solùm ad Clericos verùm etiam ad Laicos ad omnes omninò pertinet Christianos Faithe is Vniuersal Faithe is common to al Faithe perteineth not onely vnto Priestes but also vnto Laiemenne and generally to al Christians As touchinge the Pope and his Vniuersalitie of Povver in and ouer al Councelles of Bishoppes wée maie rightly saie as Athanasius saithe of Constantius the Arian Emperoure Obtendit in speciem Episcoporum Iudicium sed interim facit quod ipsi libet Quid opus est Hominibus Titulo Episcopis He maketh a shew of Iudgementes or Determinations of Bishoppes In the meane while he doothe what he listeth him selfe VVhat are wee the neare for these menne that beare onely the name of Bishoppes Sutche commonly be the Popes Prelates What so euer Learninge they haue bisides Diuinitie is commonly the least parte of theire studie And therefore when they are assembled in Councel they maie wel iudge by Authoritie but not by Learninge Verily Luitprandus saithe Imperator vti experientia didicimus intelligit negotia Dei facit amat ea tuetur omnibus viribus Ecclesiasticas res Ciuiles Sed Iohannes Papa facit contra haec omnia Wee see by experience that the Emperoure vnderstandeth Goddes causes and fauoureth and perfourmeth the same and with al his power mainteineth bothe Ecclesiastical and Temporal maters But Pope Iohn dooth al the contrarie The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 6. The Emperoure Iustinian made a Lawe to correcte the behaueour of the Cleregie to cutte shorte the insolente lewdenesse of the Priestes And albeit hee were a Christian and a Catholique Prince yet putte hee downe from theire Papal Throne twoo Popes Syluerius and Vigilius notwithstandinge they were Peters Successours and Christes Vicars M. Hardinge Iustinians lawe concerninge good order to be kepte amonge Priestes morally was good and bound them by the force of reason If he made any other Lawe touchinge matters of Religion Pope Ioannes then beinge approued
nouellis posteris oportere Peter being thus checked openly by S. Paule neither reuenged him selfe nor tooke any thinge proudely vpon him as to saie that he had the Primacie or that others that were but Nouices and aftercommers as Paule was ought be obediente vnto him Mena the Bishop of Constantinople iudged and Excommunicated Pope Vigilius The Bishoppes of the Easte Churche Iudged and Excommunicated and deposed Pope Iulius One of youre Doctoures saithe Si Papa committat crimen Depositione dignum debet puniri ac si esset vnus rusticus If the Pope committe an offence where fore he shoulde iustly be deposed he ought to be pounished as if he were a Clowne of the Countrie Your neighbours of Leodium in their Epistle againste Pope Paschalis write thus Remoto Romanae Ambitionis typho cur de grauibus manifestis non reprehendantur corrigantur Romani Episcopi Qui reprehendi corrigi non vult pseudo est siue Episcopus siue Clericus Settinge aparte the Pride of Romishe Ambition the Crimes beinge greate and manifeste why maie not the Bishoppes of Rome bothe be reproued and also corrected He that fleeth rebuke and correction is a false man whether he be Prieste or Bishop The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 8. Whiche of the Ancient Fathers euer saide that Kinges and Emperours by Christes wil and Commaundemente receiue their Authoritie at your handes M. Hardinge VVhat is to be answered hereto you maie gather of that is alleaged before out of S. Bernard speaking of bothe swordes The B. of Sarisburie It is euident by the recorde and general consente of al Ancient Writers that the Pope hath neither possession nor foote of Landes nor House to dwel in nor the name of Vniuersal Bishop nor Chartar nor Libertie nor Iurisdictiō but that he hath receiued either of the French kinges or of the Emperours Yet would he now beare y◠world in hande that the Emperoure hath nothing neither Landes nor Honour nor Power nor Right nor Swerd nor Iurisdiction but onely from him If any man doubte hereof bisides other testimonies of Antiquitie lette him reade that moste vaine and Childishe Donation that the Pope him selfe hathe forged vnder the name of the Emperoure Constantine S. Ambrose saithe Si non vis esse obnoxius Caesari noli habere quae sunt Mundi Si habes diuitias obnoxius es Caesari If thou wilte not be subiecte to the Prince then possesse not the thinges that be of the worlde If thou have worldly riches then arte thou subiecte vnto the Prince Likewise S. Augustine Dices Quid mihi Regi Quid tibi ergo possessioni Per Iura Regum possessiones possidentur Thou wilt saie what haue I to doo with the Prince What then haste thou to doo with Landes For possessions are holden not by the Popes righte but by the right of Kinges and Princes Charles the Frenche kinge Neuewe to Charles the Greate wrote thus vnto Pope Adrian Imperatores ius distinguendorum negotiorum Episcopis Sanctis iuxta Diualia Constituta permiserunt non autem Episcoporum Villici extiterunt Emperoures by their Commissions vnder their greate Seales haue graunted vnto Bishoppes Authoritie to heare causes but they them selues were neuer Stewardes or Bailifes vnto Bishoppes One of your owne late Doctours saithe Papa habet gladium Ciuilem ex Commissione permissione Principis The Pope hathe the Temporal Svverde or Ciuile Iurisdiction by the Commission and Sufferance of the Prince Therfore it seemeth greate folie to saie The Prince hath his svverde or Iurisdiction onely by the Commission of the Pope You re owne Barbarous Glose saithe Imperator in temporalibus habet Potestatem à solo Deo Et imperium fuit antequam Apostolatus esset The Emperoure in Temporal thinges hath his Authoritie not from the Pope but from God onely And the Empiere was before the Apostles were Againe Imperator non habet gladium à Papa Sed Imperium est à solo Deo The Emperoure hath not his Swerde of the Pope but the Empiere is onely from God Againe Ex sola electione Principum dico verum esse Imperatorem antequam confirmetur à Papa I saie that the Emperoure is a very righte and perfite Emperoure by the onely Election of the Princes yea before he be confirmed by the Pope What shal we neede moe witnesses You re very Ceremoniarie of Rome saithe thus Hoc affirmamus ante Carolum Magnum neminem Imperij Romani Coronam ex Manu Romani Pontificis Romae suscepisse Thus we saie that before the Emperoure Charles the greate that is for the space of eight hundred yeeres after Christe no man euer receiued the Crowne of the Romaine Empiere at Rome by the Handes of the Bishop of Rome S. Bernarde hereof thus writeth vnto the Pope Esto vt alia quacunque ratione hoc tibi vendices non tamen Apostolico iure Nec illud tibi dare quod non habuit Petrus potuit Be it that ye claime this right by somme other meanes Yet by the Apostles right ye cannot claime it Neither coulde Peter geeue you that right that he himselfe neuer badde The Emperoure Ludouicus the fourth saithe thus Mea Potestas non pendet à Papa sed à Deo immediatè Et vanum est quod dici solet Papam non habere Superiorem My Power hangeth not of the Pope but immediatly of God alone And it is but a peeuishe vaine tale that they saie the Pope hath no Superioure Iohannes Maior saith Bonifacius Octauus multùm apparenter definiuit quòd Romanus Pontifex est supra Reges in Temporalibus quod tamē oculatissimi Theologi dicunt esse falsum Pope Bonifacius 8. hath concluded with greate shewe of reason that euen in Temporal Causes the Pope is aboue Kinges But I maie tel you the VVisest Diuines saie it is but a false tale Iohannes de Parisijs saithe In Temporalibus Potestas Saecularis maior est Potestare Spirituali nec quoadista est ei subiecta in aliquo In Temporal Causes the Temporal Power is greater then the Spiritual Power and touchinge the same is not subiecte to it in any pointe Herueus saithe Si Imperator habet Potestatem suam immediatè à Papa Ergo Imperator est Minister Papae If the Emperoure receiue his Power immediately from the Pope then is the Emperoure the Popes Seruante Al these Authorities notwithstandinge the Pope him selfe saithe The Emperoure hath no right nor Authoritie but onely of him And touchinge the laste Obiection of Herueus that the Emperoure should be the Popes Seruant he thinketh it maie be wel admitted without any greate inconuenience For thus saithe one of his Priuie Counsel Iste Romanus Imperator est Procurator Defensor Romanae Ecclesiae This Romaine Emperoure is nothinge els but the Proctoure and Steward of the Churche of Rome Likewise saithe Iohannes de Parisijs Dicunt quòd solus Papa est
common weales The B. of Sarisburie Concerning the title of Supreme Head of the Churche wée néede not to searche for Scriptures to excuse it For firste wée diuised it not Secondly wée vse it not Thirdly our Princes at this presente claime it not Your Fathers M. Harding firste entitled that moste Noble and moste Woorthy Prince Kinge Henrie the Eighth with that Vnused and Strange Style as it maie wel be thought the rather to bringe him into the talke and sclaunder of the worlde Howe be it that the Prince is the Highest Iudge Gouernoure ouer al his Subiectes what so euer as wel Priestes as Laie menne without exception it is moste euidente by that hath benne already saide by that shal be saide hereafter by the whole course of the Scriptures and by the vndoubted practise of the Primitiue Churche Verily the Prince as it shal afterwarde better appeare had Bothe the Tables of the Lavve of God euermore committed to his charge as wel the Firste that perteineth to Religion as also the Seconde that perteineth to Ciuile Gouernemente But nowe M. Hardinge if a man would aske you by what VVoorde of God your Priestes and Bishoppes haue exempted them selues from the Iudgement and Gouernement of theire Princes Or by what VVoord of God the Princes hande is restreined more from his Cleregie then from other his Subiectes or by what VVoorde of God yee woulde stablishe Tvvoo Supreme Gouernoures in one Realme I marueile in what Scriptures yée woulde seeke to finde it Your owne Doctoures and Glosers saie as it is before alleged Quaeritur quis exemit Clericum de Iurisdictione Imperatoris cùm priùs esset illi Subiectus Dicit Laurentius quòd Papa de consensu Principis Question is moued who hath exempted the Prieste from the Iurisdiction of the Emperour whereas before he was his Subiecte Laurētius saith not the VVoorde of God but the Pope exempted him by the Consente of the Prince Further M. Hardinge we beséeche you by what VVoorde of God can your Pope claime him self to be the Heade of the Vniuersal Churche of God Where is it recorded Where is it written In what parte of the Testamente Newe or Olde In what Lavve In what Prophete In what Epistle In what Gospel Where is his Headship Where is his Vniuersal Povver If yée can finde it then maie yee shewe it If it cannot be founde then shoulde yée not saie it As for that you and other your Felowes haue alleged before for proufe hereof it is so childish so weake that I thinke yée cannot now comme againe with the same without blusshinge Touchinge the Right that wée saie belongeth vnto al Christian Princes it hath benne inuested and planted in them from the beginninge For to leaue other Authorities of the Scriptures Pope Eleutherius him selfe wrote thus vnto Lucius sommetime Kinge of this Realme of Englande Vos estis Vicarius Dei in Regno iuxta Prophetam Regium You are Goddes Vicare vvithin your ovvne Realme according to the Prophete Dauid Paule the Bishop of Apamea writeth thus vnto the Emperoure Iustinian in a cause mere Ecclesiastical touchinge Religion Transtulit ipsum Dominus vt Plenitudinem directionis vestrae custodiret Serenitati Our Lorde hath taken Pope Agapetus awaie that he might leaue the Fulnesse of order concerninge these Heretiques Dioscorus and Eutyches vnto your Maiestie Tertullian saith Colimus Imperatorem vt hominem à Deo Secundum Solo Deo Minorem Wee Woorship the Emperoure as a man nexte vnto God and inferioure onely vnto God And nothwithstanding the name of Heade of the Churche belonge peculiarely and onely vnto Christe as his onely Right and Enheritance for as the Churche is the Body so Christe is the Heade yet maie the same sommetimes also be applied in sober meaning and good sense not onely vnto Princes but also vnto others far inferiour vnto Princes Chrysostome saithe Videntur mihi istae mulieres Caput fuisse Ecclesiae quae illic erat It seemeth vnto mee that these vveemen vvere the Heade of the Churche that was at Philippi Likewise againe speaking of the Emperoure he saithe thus Laesus est qui non habet parem vllum super terram Summitas Caput omnium super terram hominum Wee haue offended him that in the Earthe hath no peere the Toppe and the Heade of al menne in the VVorlde If he were the Heade of al menne then was he the Heade not onely of Bishoppes and Cardinalles but also of the Pope him selfe Onlesse the Pope were no man To conclude our Princes néede nomore to claime their Lawful Authoritie and Emperial Righte by y◠Exāple of Nero whereof yée haue moued mutche vntimely and wanton talke then your Pope néedeth to claime his Vsurped Coloured Power by the Examples of Annas and Caiphas The Apologie Cap. 11. Diuision 2. For besides that a Christian Prince hath the charge of Bothe Tables committed to him by God to the ende he maie vnderstande that not Temporal maters onely but also Religious and Ecclesiastical Causes perteine to his office c. M. Hardinge You wil proue that Ecclesiastical causes perteine to a Kinges of fice because he hath the charge of bothe tables If you meane that a Kinge is bounde to kepe bothe tables of the lawe so is also euery priuate man And yet as no priuate man is supreme heade of the Churche by kepinge them so neither the Kinge is proued thereby the supreme heade If you meane that the Kinge ought to see others to kepe bothe tables of the lawe that maie he do either in appointinge temporal paines for the transgressours of them or in executinge the saide paines vpon the transgressours But as he cannot excommunicate any man for not apperinge when he is called so can he not iudge al causes of the lawe For if a man sinne onely in his harte as for example in murther or aduoutrie the Kinge cannot haue to do with him And yet the true supreme heade of the Church shal haue to do with him For that malicious and sinful thought shal neuer be foregeuen excepte the party come to be absolued of theire Successours to whom Christe saide whose sinnes ye forgeue ▪ they are forgeuen and whose sinnes ye reteine they are reteined To committe murder in harte is a sinne and it is reteined vntil it be forgeuen Neither can it be forgeuen vntil he that is Iudge by the keie of discretion perceiue that it is to be forgeuen VVhich he cannot know vntil it be confessed with a contrite hart by him who onely knoweth it and is bounde to tel it for absolutions sake If then there be a iudge who can see the lawe kepte in an higher pointe and beyond the reache of the King surely the King shal not be supreme head ▪ sith an other is more like to God then he A◠who is iudge of the inwarde conscience whereunto no Kinge reacheth but onely the minister of Christe ▪
not as a cause of Foregeuenesse to be obteined Your very Glose saithe Apud Graecos Confessio non est necessaria quia non emanauit ad illos Traditio talis Emong the Christians in Graecia Confession of Sinnes is not necessarie for that this Tradition neuer came emonge them Yet M. Hardinge I trowe yee wil not saie but theire sinnes maie be foregeuen Certainely Chrysostome saithe Solus te Deus confitentem videat Let God onely see thee making the Confession of thy Sinnes It was very mutche therefore M. Hardinge for you so assuredly and so precisely to saie that sinnes can neuer be foregeuen without your Priuie Confession and specially thereby to proue the Vniuersal Headeship of the Pope The Apologie Cap. 11. Diuision 3. Bisides also that God by his Prophetes often and earnestly commaundeth the King to cutte downe the Groues to breake downe the Images and Aultars of Idoles and to Write out the Booke of the Lavve for him self and bisides that the Prophete Esaias saith a Kinge ought to be a Patrone and a Nurse of the Churche c. M. Hardinge Your seconde argumente for the Ecclesiastical Power of Kinges is because God bad them to cut downe superstitious groues and ouerthrowe idols as though this were not an office of executinge a commaundemente rather then of decreeinge any thinge The Authoritie to discerne an image of Christ from an idol of the deuil belongeth to them who knowe that an image is a name of art which is of God an idol is a name of false woorshippinge whiche is of the Deuil So that an image is godly and idol deuilishe VVhen the Prieste hath iudged this or that to be an idol or when it is euident that so it is then the kinge shal do wel to breake it downe But if the Kinge wil breake downe the image of Christe when the Priest telleth him it is a godly representation and no idol then the Kinge dothe more then his office requireth And shal not onely not proue his supremacie but also shal incurre danger to be reiected of God as Kinge Saul was when he despised to keepe the commaundement of Samuel the high Prieste VVhereas you alleage for a Kinges Ecclesiastical Power that he was commaunded to write out the Booke of the lawe for him selfe why lefte ye out that whiche foloweth there immediately accipiens exemplar à Sacerdotibus Leuiticae tribus The Kinge muste write out a Booke of the Deuteronomie but the example thereof he must receiue of the Priestes that be of the tribe of Leut. If in spiritual matters the Kinge were aboue the Priestes why had he not the Kepinge of the Lawe in his owne handes VVhy muste he take it of the Priestes why did not rather the Priestes come to him sith the inferiour taketh al his right of the superiour If the Priestes muste geue the holy scripture vnto the Kinge then verely muste he take sutche as they geue him and with such meaning as they geue vnto it So that if you had not falsefied the meaninge of Gods woorde by leauinge out halfe the sentence this place had proued againste you It is to be weyed to what ende a Kinge is required to haue and to reade that holy Booke Verely not to take vpon him the parte of a iudge in causes of Religion but as there it is expressed to thintent he learne to feare his Lorde God and kepe his woordes and ceremomonies in the lawe commaunded and that his harte be not lifted vp into pride aboue his brethren c. I omitte that you reade Librum legis whereas the Churche readeth Deuteronomium * it were too longe to enter into that disputation The booke of the lawe signifieth the whole law the Deuteronomie is but one of the fiue bookes VVhere Esaie calleth a Kinge a Patrone of the Churche I haue not founde But were it he called him so it betokeneth that he shoulde defende the Churche from worldly ennimies as in repellinge the Turkes in expellinge Heretikes and sutche like Kingely actes VVhiche proueth no spiritual supremacie but vnder God a fealtie and seruiceable power I finde where Esaie saith Et erunt Reges nutricij tui Reginae nutrices tuae Kinges shal be thy fosterers and Quenes thy nourses But not euery nourse or fosterer is aboue him who is nourished A faitheful seruant oftentimes fostereth the maister Yet is he not aboue his maister Besides S. Hierome vnderstandeth the Kinges whom Esaie nameth to be the Apostles accordinge to whiche sense it maketh nothinge to the purpose it is alleaged for The B. of Sarisburie Al Christian Princes are mutche beholden to you M. Harding yée make them so like to Polyphemus y◠Giante after his eies were striken out that is to saie to a man mighty in body and greate in boanes but starke blinde and no waie hable to guide him selfe A King yée saie maie not take vpon him to Iudge or Pronounce in maters of Religion bee they neuer so cleare but onely must hearken be ready to execute what so euer shal be thought good and commaunded by your Bishoppes as if he were onely your Bishoppes man So saithe your Holy Father Pope Bonifacius 8. Gladius Materialis exercendus est manu Regum Militum Sed ad nutum patientram Sacerdotis The Material or Temporal Swerde muste be vsed by the hande of Kinges and Souldiers but at the becke and sufferance of the Prieste By which Prieste he meaneth the Pope But Dauid saithe Now yee Kinges haue vnderstanding Be learned yee that iudge the Earthe Good Kinges haue oftentimes refourmed Religion and haue lawfully controlled and corrected and deposed idle and wicked Bishoppes as before in place conueniente it is largely proued The Emperoure Iustinian threateneth if the Bishop offended in saieing the publique seruice or in the Ministration of the Sacramentes that then he him selfe woulde vse his Authoritie ouer him and see him pounished Franciscus Zarabella saith that for any crime notorious the Emperour maie summone the Pope to appeare before his Maiestie and maie require him to yelde a reckening of his Faithe And yet wil yée saie The Emperoure is stil the Popes man and maie iudge nothinge in Causes of Religion without him The Kinge yée saie is not hable to Iudge whether an Idole be an Idole or no but by the leadinge and teachinge of the Prieste So wel yée wishe al Christian Princes were instructed that thei should not be hable either to sée or to speake without you But what if you Priestes saie as it hath often happened God is an Idole an Idole is God Light is Darkenesse and Darkenesse is Light what if they saie Greate is Diana the Goddesse of Ephesus What if they condemne the innocente and saie as they smometime saide of Christe Onlesse this man were a malefactoure wee woulde neuer haue brought him to thy hande Yet muste the Prince
to M. Hardinge Aerius the Arian Heretique the Breache of Vowes the Dissension of Iudgementes in Religion shal be answeared God willinge hereafter eche mater seuerally in his place Wee flatter not our Prince with any newe imagined extraordinarie power but onely geue him that Prerogatiue Chieftie that euermore hath benne dewe vnto him by the ordinance and Woorde of God that is to say to be the Nurce of Goddes Religion to make Lawes for the Churche to heare and take vp cases and questions of the Faithe if he be hable or otherwise to commit them ouer by his authoritie vnto the learned to commaunde the Bishoppes and Priestes to doo their dewties and to punishe sutche as be offenders Thus the godly Emperoure Constantinus sate in Iudgement in a cause Ecclesiastical bitwéene Caecilianus and Donatus à Casis Nigris and in the ende him selfe pronounced sentence Greater authoritie then Constantinus the Emperoure had and vsed our Princes require none This I truste hitherto is no greate Heresie S. Hierome reproued Vigilantius for that he founde faulte with the Vigils or night wakes that then were vsed with Praieing to Sainctes with Woorshippinge of Reliques with Lightes and other suche like weighty maters Touchinge which whole controuersie Erasmus geueth this iudgement in hunc ita conuitijs debacchatur Hieronymus vt plusculum in co modestiae cogar desiderare Vtinam argumentis tantùm egisset et à conuitijs temperasset Against this Vigilantius S. Hierome so raileth that I wante in him some peece of sobrietie I woulde rather he had dealte with argumentes and had spared his railinge Of praier to Sainctes Lightes we shal speake hereafter Night wakes afterward were condemned as I remembre in the Councel of Carthage so Sentence geuen by the Churche with this greate Heretique Vigilantius against S. Hierome Verily the Fathers in a former Councel holden at Eliberis in Spaine decréed thus Placuit prohiberi ne foeminae in coemiterio peruigilent quia saepé sub obtentu orationis scelera latenter committunt It liketh vs that women be forbidden to watche at the places of burial For often vnder pretense of prayer priuily they commit wickednesse To be shorte if Vigilantius were an Heretique for reprouinge of Night Watches why hath the Churche of Rome so longe sithence condemned abolished the same watches agreeably to Vigilantius and contrarie to the Iudgement of S Hierome Reliques were subiecte to muche villanie and are welneare worne out of them selfe The Manicheis emonge other their fantastical errours were wonte to say the the body of Man was made not by God but by the Angels of the Diuel whiche they called Gentem tenebratum and that in Man there be two soules of contrarie natures the one of the substance of God the other of the substance of the Diuel and that either soule contineweth stil as it is and cannot alter That is to say that the good soule can neuer be il and that the il soule can neuer be good And in this sense they saide that Man hath no Frée wil. Al these and other like errours wée abhorre and Detest as frantique furies Wée saie that the Soule of Man is not the substance but the Creature of God an that it maie be changed from good to il from il to good that Dauid maie fal that Paule maie rise that God geueth vs a newe hart and a newe Spirite within our breastes But as touchinge the fréedome of wil and power of our selues we saie with S. Augustine O malum Liberum Arbitrium sine Deo O euil is Free Wil without God Againe Libero Arbitrio malè vtens homo se perdidit Arbitrium Man misusinge his Free Wil spilte both him selfe and his wil. Againe Quid tantùm de Naturae postibilitate praesumitur Vulnerata saucia vexata perdita est Vera confessione non falsa defensione opus habet What doo men so mutche presume of the possibilitie of Nature It is woounded it is mangled it is troubled it is loste It behoueth vs rather truely to confesse it then folsly to defende it Againe Liberum Arbitrium captiuatum non nisi ad peccatum valet Free wil once made thralle auaileth now nothinge but to sinne Agayne Quòd bené viuimus quòd rectè intelligimus Deo debemus Nostrum nihil est nisi peccatum quod habemus That wee liue wel that wee vnderstande aright wee haue it of God Of our selues wee haue nothinge but onely sinne that is within vs. The better to cleare this whole case I thought it good to vse the moe woordes Thus may wée learne to knowe our selues and humbly to confesse our imperfection and to geue the whole glorie vnto God Therefore to conclude S. Augustine saithe Nos volumus Sed Deus in nobis operatur velle Nos operamur Sed Deus in nobis operatur operari pro bona sua volūtate Hoc nobis expedit credere dicere Hoc est pium hoc est verum vt sit humilis submissa Confessio detur totum Deo Tutiores viuimus si totum Deo damus non autem nos illi ex parte nobis ex parte committimus Wee wil but it is God that woorketh in vs to wil. VVee woorke but it is God that woorketh in vs to woorke accordinge to his good pleasure This is behooueful for vs bothe to beleeue and to Speake This is a Godly this is a True Doctrine that our Confession maye be humble and lowly and that God maye haue the whole VVee liue in more safetie if wee geue al vnto God rather then if wee commit our selues partely to our selues and partely to him The Apologie Cap. 2. Diuision 4. That wee be accursed Creatures like the Gyauntes doo warre against God him selfe and liue cleane without any regarde or Woorshippinge of God M. Hardinge VVhat ye bee God knoweth and your owne Conscience shoulde knowe Our Lorde amende bothe you and vs. But to saye some what to that your giltie minde imagineth the VVorlde to reporte of you if they which take away and abhorre the external Sacrifice wherein Christe accordinge to his owne institution is offered to his Father make no warre against God if they whiche make Christe a Minister of Shadowes Signes Tokens and Figures they whiche feare not to breake their solemne Vowes made to God and defende the same as wel done they whiche assure them selues of their Saluation and therefore liue dissolutely without due care and feare of God If I saye they be not cursed Creatures and like Gyantes that warre against God then are ye cleare of this charge The B. of Sarisburie To answeare Ifs with Ifs and Woordes with Woordes it were greate folie Therefore leauinge the answeare of Vowes assurance of Saluation to theire seueral places first wee denie not the Sacrifice of Christe Christe onely vpon his Crosse is our whole and onely Sacrifice for sinne biside him wée haue none other How
in Scotlande nor in Denmarke nor in Sueden nor in any place els where the Gospel of Christe is clearely preached But it hathe benne your greate Policie theise many late yeres when ye murdered the Sainctes of God firste to roote out theire Tongues for feare of speakinge and then afterward to telle the people they were Anabaptistes or Arians or what ye lifted Withe sutche policie Nero sometime that Bloudy Tiranne burnte the Christians in heapes togeather and made open Proclamations that they were Traitours and Rebelles and had â—ired the Cittie of Rome It pleaseth you for lacke of other Euasion to cal the Storie of Martyrs a Dungbiâ— of Lies But theise Lies shal remaine in Recorde for euer to testifie and to condemne your Bloudy dooinges Ye haue imprisoned your Brethren ye haue stripte them naked ye haue scourged them with Roddes ye haue burnte theire handes and armes withe flaminge Torches ye haue famished them ye haue drowned them ye haue burnte them ye haue sommoned them beinge deade to appeare before you out of theire graues ye haue ripte vp theire buried Carkesses ye haue burnte them ye haue throwen them out into the Dunghil ye tooke a poore Babe falling from his Mothers Wombe and in most cruel and Barbarous manner threw him into the fiere Al theise thinges M. Hardinge are true they are no Lies The eyes and consciences of many thousandes can witnesse your dooinges The Bloud of innocent Abel criethe to God from the earthe and vndoubtedly he wil require it at your handes Chrysostome saithe as it is alleged before Quem videris in Sanguine persecutionis gaudentem is Lupus est Who so euer hathe pleasure in the Bloude of persecution the same is a Wolfe Ye slewe your Brethren so cruelly not for Murder or Robberie or any other gréeuous crime they had committed but onely for that they trusted in the Liuinge God Howe be it wée maye saye withe the Old Father Tertullian Crudelitas vestra nostra gloria est Your crueltie is our glorie Whereas wée auouche the Power and Authoritie of Goddes Holy Woorde for that the more it is trodden downe the more it growethe and for that the Kinges and Princes of this world with al theire puissance and policie were neuer hable to roote it out youre answeare is that this reason may serue théeues as wel as vs. To dissemble youre odious comparisons howe lightly so euer it shal please you to weigh this reason yet youre Forefathers the Phariseis in olde time séemed to make some accoumpte of it For thus they murmured and misliked emong them selues Videtis nos nihil proficere Ecce Mundus totus post eum abijt Ye see wee can doo no good Loe the whole world for al that wée can dòo is gone after him Tertullian likewise saithe Exquisitior quaeque crudelitas vestra illecebra magis est Sectae Plures efficimur quoties metimur a vobis Semen est Sanguis Christianorum The greattest crueltie that ye can diuise is an entisement to our Secte Howe many of vs so euer ye murder when ye come to the viewe ye finde vs moe and moe The seede of this encrease is Christian Bloud So S. Augustine Ligabantur includebantur caedebantur torquebantur vrebantur multiplicabantur They were fettred they were imprisoned they were beaten they were rackte they were burnte and yet they multiplied S. Cyprian saithe Sacerdos Dei Euangelium tenens Christi praecepta custodiens occidi potest vinci non potest The Priest of God holdinge the Testamente in his hande killed he maye be but ouercome he can not be So likewise Nazianzene Morte viuit vulnere nascitur depastum augetur By deathe it liuethe by woundinge it springethe by diminishinge it encreasethe Thus theise Holy Fathers when they sawe the Gospel of Christe increased and grewe by persecution contrary to al iudgement of reason and worldly policie they were enforced contrary to M. Hardinges iudgemente therein to acknowledge the mighty power and hande of God and an vndoubted Testimonie of the Truthe Iustinus a Godly Learned Father and Martyr saithe thus of him selfe Cùm auditem Christianos publicè traduci exagicati ab omnibus videreÌ„ autem eos ad mortem ad omnia quae ad terrorem excogitari possent esse intrepidos cogitabam nullo modo posse fieri vt illi in aliquo scelere viuerent VVhen I béeinge an Heathen and one of Platoes Scholars heard that the Christians were accused and reuised of al menne and yet sawe them to goe to theire deathe and to al manner terrible and cruel tormentes quietly and without feare I thought with mee selfe it was non possible that sutche menne should liue in any wickednes The like writethe Sozomenus of the Christians in the Primitiue Churche Nec adulatione victi nec minis perterriti magnum omnibus argumentum dabant sese de maximis praemiis in certamen descendere The Christians neither relentinge by faire meanes nor shrinkinge for threates made it wel appeare to euery man that it was for some greate rewarde they suffred sutche trouble Theise learned Fathers therefore sawe that M. Hardinge could not sée the encreasinge of the Gospel throughe deathe and persecution maugre the might of worldly Princes is an euident token of the Truthe The Prophete Dauid saithe The Princes came and consulted togeather againste God and againste his Christe But he that dwelle the in heauen wil laughe them to scorne There is no wisedome there is no policie there is no counsel against the Lorde Further you saye Our Gospel is grosse and the people dulle and sensual and geuen to theire belly and beastly pleasure and therefore the apter and readier to receiue the same O M. Hardinge what a desperate cause is this that cannot stande without sutche manifeste blasphemie of the Gospel of Christe and dispiteful reproche of Goddes people Certainely S. Paule saithe The Gospel is the power of God vnto Saluation And the Prophete Dauid saithe The people is Christes enheritance What hathe the people so mutche offended you that you should either in this place so scornefully and so reprochefully reporte of them or in your former Booke so disdeingfully cal them Swiene and Dogges Yet is it not so longe sithence your selfe were an earnest professour of the same Gospel were it neuer so grosse Where was then your finenesse and sharpnesse of witte Where was your belly Where was the reste You should not so soone haue forgotten your owne selfe Surely M. Hardinge neither wil the sensual man drowned in filthy and beastly pleasures take vp his Crosse and folowe Christe and yelde his necke to your swearde or his body to your fieâ—e neither is it a grosse or sensual Gospel that wil leade him to the same You saye it standethe not withe Goddes promisse to forsake his Churche a thousande yeeres It is mutche for you M. Hardinge openly to breake Goddes commaundementes to defile his Holy
c. Folo winge the Holy Fathers wee doo al with one accorde teache men to confesse one and him selfe the Sonne our Lorde Iesus Christe persite him selfe in Godhead and perfite himselfe in Manhood And for Auctoritie of the Fathers in high pointes of Faith a Bishop in that reuereÌ„d assemblie named Eudoocius pronounced a notable sentence sayeing thus Euery one that consentethe not to the exposition of the Holy Fathers doothe alienate him selfe from al Pristely Communion and from the presence of Christe Thus wee haue alleaged the foure first general Councels whiche S. Gregorie honourethe as the foure Gospels But the thinge beinge so euident as it is and so welkuorwen euen to your selues if ye be learned the Auctorit it of these chief Councels maie suffice The B. of Sarisburie Here M. Hardinge ye haue taken in hande a néedelesse labour For you knowe right wel wee despise not the Authoritie of the Holy Fathers but rather in this selfe same place haue alleged togeather S. Augustine S. Hierome and S. Ambrose thrée of the moste Auncient and approued Fathers and throughout the whole discourse of this Apologie in the Defence of the Catholique Truthe of our Religion nexte vnto Goddes Holy Woorde haue vsed no prouse or Authoritie so mutche as the expositions and iudgementes of the Holy Fathers Wée despise them not therefore but rather geue God thankes in theire behalfe for that it hathe pleased him to prouide so woorthy instrumentes for his Churche and therefore wée iustly reproue you for that so vnaduisedly and without cause ye haue forsaken the steppes of so Holy Fathers These foure General Councelles wherein you dwel so longe as they make nothinge against vs so in sundrie pointes they fight expressely against you Firste they were summoned by the Emperours Constantinus Theodosius 1. Theodosius 2. and Martianus and not by any right or authoritie of the Pope as hereafter it shal be shewed in place conuenient more at large Iulius the Bishop of Rome was summoned by the Emperours write to appeare at the Councel of Nice as wel as others And Pope Leo afterwarde was charged by like Authoritie to appeare at the Councel of Chalcedon In the Councel of Nice the Bishop of Rome was not President but Eustathius the Bishop of Antioche In the same Councel of Nice the Bishop of Rome hathe his Authoritie and Iurisdiction made equal and leuel with the other thrée Patriarkes And in the Councel of Chalcedon the Bishop of Constantinople is made equal in Authoritie with the Bishop of Roome To be shorte the saide Councel of Chalcedon for this laste and some other like causes Leo the Bishop of Rome would not allowe Which thinge notwithstandinge the Councel standethe stil in force whether the Pope wil or no. These be the foure fiste General Councelles whiche M. Hardinge comparethe in Authoritie with the foure Euangelistes But these Heretiques Arius Nestorius Macedonius and Euiyches in these foure General Councelles vtterly despised al the Auncient Fathers and boasted them selues saithe M. Hardinge of the Scriptures and euermore cried out Scriptures Scriptures Touchinge the Arians that they alleged certaine doubteful and darke places of the Scriptures to serue theire purpose it is certaine and manifeste But that either they despised or that the Catholiques against them auouched the Eropsition and authoritie of any Father M. Hardinges onely woorde muste be our Warrante For neither allegethe he any one Author for prouse hereof nor yet namethe any of al these Fathers Notwithstandinge let vs graunt these Heretiques cried out as M. Hardinge saithe Scriptures Scriptures Euen so did the same Heretiques likewise crie out euen as nowe M. Hardinge doothe Fathers Fathers Socrates saithe Et Ariani Originis libros citabant in Testimonium vt illi quidem iudicabant sui Dogmatis And the Arian Heretikes alleged the Learned Father Origens Bookes as they thought for proufe and witnesse of theire Doctrine The Heretique Eutyches saide Ego legi scripta Beati Cypriani Sanctorum Patrum Sancti Athanasii I haue readde the writinges of S. Cyprian and of other Holy Fathers and of S. Athanafius Likewise the Eutychian Heretique Carosus saide Ego secundum expositionem treceÌ„torum octodecim Patrum sic credo fic Baptixatus sum Aliud quid mihi dicas nescio This is my Faithe accordinge to the exposition of the three hundred and eighteene Fathers in the Councel of Nice In this Faithe was I Baptized What ye should saye more to me I cannot telle Euen so saide Eutyches him selfe Sic à Progenitoribus meis accepi credidi In hac Fide Baptizatus sum signatus vsque and hunc diem in ea vixi in ea opto moti Thus haue I receiued of my Forefathers and thus haue I beleeued In this Faithe was I Baptized and signed and in the same haue I liued vntil this daye and in the same I wish to die Thus S. Augustine saithe the Donatian Heretique Cresconlus alleged the authoritie of S. Cyprian Thus the Nestorian Heretiques alleged the authoritie of the Councel of Nice To be shorte thus the Heretique Dioscorus cried out in the open Councel of Chalcedon Ego habeo Testimonia Sanctorum Patrum Athanasij Gregorij Cyrilli Non transgredior in aliquo Ego cum Patribus cijcior Ego defendo Patrum Dogmata Ego horum habeo testimonia non simpliciter aut transitorie sed in ipsorum libris I haue the Testimonies of the Holy Fathers Athanasius Gregorius Cyrillus I alter not from them in any pointe I am throwen foorthe and bannished with the Fathers I defende the Fathers Doctrine I haue theire iudgementes vttered not by chaunce or vnaduisedly but remaininge expressed in theire Bookes I doubte not M. Hardinge but you maye hereby easily sée that the Heretiques ye speake of cried not onely Scriptures Scriptures as ye saye but had leasure also sometimes to crie as you doo Fathers Fathers that as wel to purpose and as rightly as you of longe time haue vsed to crie hauinge in déede in the cases wée speake of neither Scriptures nor Fathers To come neare the mater wée saie not that al cases of doubt are by manifeste and open woordes plainely expressed in the Scriptures For so there should neede no exposition But wée saye There is no case in Religion so darke and doubteful but it maie necessarily be either proued or reproued by collection and conference of the Scriptures S. Hierome saithe Moris est Scripturarum obscuris manifesta subnectere It is yâ— order of the Scriptures â–ª after harde thinges to ioine other thinges that bee plaine S. Augustine like wise saithe Solet circunstantia Scripturarum illuminare sententiam The Circunstance of the Scripture is woonte to geue light and to open the meaninge The like rule Tertullian also geuethe Oportet secundum pluâ—a intelligi pauclora The fewer places muste be expounded by the moe Therefore touchinge this woorde Homousios whiche
M. Hardinge here moueth and the whole contention of the Arians Epiphanius writethe thus Nomen Substantiae simpliciter nudè in veteri Noua Scriptura non proponitur Sententia autem eius nominis vbique ocâ—urrié This woorde Substance plainely and nakedly is not founde neither in the Olde not in the Newe Testamente But the sense and meaninge of that woorde is founde euerywhere In this conference and Iudgemente of the Holy Scriptures wée néede oftentimes the discretion and wisedome of Learned Fathers Yet notwithstandinge maye wée not géeue them herein greater crediâ—e then is conuenient or then they them selues if it were offered would receiue Wée maye reuerently saye of them as Seneca in the like case sommetime saide Non sunt Domini sed Duces nostri They are our Leaders but not our Lordes They are not the Truthe of God it selfe but onely witnesses vnto the Truthe Therfore S. Augustine saithe Alios Scriptores ita lego vt quanâ—alibet Sanctitate Doctrinaque praepolleant non ideò verum putem quòd ipsi ita senserint sed quòd id mihi vel per alios Authores Canonicos vel probabili ratione persuadere potuerint Other writers or Fathers bisides the Holy Scriptures I reade in this sorte that be theire Learninge or Holinesse neuer so greate I wil not thinke it true bicause they haue thought so but bicause they are hable to persuade me so either by other Canonical writers or els by some likely reason Likewise againe he saithe Hoc genus literatum noÌ„ cum credendi necessitate sed cum iudicandi libertate legendum est This kinde of writinges of the Holy Doctours and Fathers must be readde not with necessitie to beleeue eche thinge but with libertie to iudge of eche thinge And to that ende he saithe Ne Catholicis quidem Episcopis consentiendum est sicubi fortè falluntur vt contra Canonicas Dei Scripturas sentiant Wee maie not consente vnto the Bishoppes notwithstandinge they be Catholique if they iudge contrarie to the Holy Canonical Scriptures In this authoritie and credite wée haue and ought to haue the Holy Fathers Nowe let vs sée whethér the Bishoppes and others in these Councelles confuted these Heretiques as wée saye by the Scriptures or els as M. Hardinge séemethe to saye for wante or weakenesse of the Scriptures vsed therein the Authoritie of the Fathers Firste the Emperour Constantinus in the Councel of Nice instructinge the Bishoppes there howe they might beste debate theire quarrelles and ende al striues saithe thus vnto them Euangelicae Apostolicae Literae Veterum Prophetarum Oracula perspicuè nos instituunt quid oporteat sapere de voluntare sensu Dei. Ponentes ergo contentionem ex diuinitùs inspiraris oraculis quaeramus solutionem eorum quae proponuntur The Euangelistes and Apostles Writinges and the saieinges of the Olde Prophetes doo clearely instructe vs what iudgemente wee ought to haue of the meaninge and wil of God Therefore saieinge a fide al contention out of those Heauenly Oracles let vs seeke for the assoilinge of our questions Socrates also touchinge the same Councel of Nice saithe thus of the Arian Heretiques Explicantes Sacrosanctas Scripturas saepe illos euertimus By openinge and expoundinge the Holy Scriptures oftentimes wee ouerthrewe them Likewise S. Augustine disputinge againste the same Arians refusethe as I haue saide before bothe Councelles and Fathers and appealethe onely to the Scriptures Nec ego Nicenam Synodum tibi nec tu mihi Ariminensem debes obijcere Scripturarum Authoritatibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione concertet Neither wil I allege the Councel of Nice against you nor shal you allege the Councel of Ariminum againste me By the Authoritie of the Scriptures let vs weigh mater with mater cause with cause reason with reason Touchinge the Councel holden at Constantinople against Macedonius and the Diuinitie of the Holy Ghoste Athanasius saithe Ne interroges sed solùm ex Sacris literis condiscas Sufficiunt enim documenta quae in illis reperias Neuer mooue question hereof but onely learne of the Holy Scriptures For the onely proufes that ye shal there finde are sufficient to warrant the Godhed of the Holy Ghoste So likewise saithe Euagrius of the other twoo Councelles of Ephesus and Chalcedon Ex Euangelicis Apostolicis de Domino vocibus scimus Viros illos Diuinos constituisse Wee knowe that these Godly Fathers concluded this mater by suche woordes as the Euangelistes and Apostles haue vttered of our Lorde Therefore the Auncient Father Origen saithe Vide quà m propè periculis illi sint qui negliguÌ„t exerceri in Diuinis Literis ex quibus Solis examinationis huiusmodi agnoscenda discretio est Consider in what daunger they be that haue no care to reade the Holy Scriptures For by the same Scriptures Onely the iudgement of this trial must be allowed Euen so saithe Chrysostome Etiamsi in ipsis Veris Ecclesijs quae Dei sunt dixerint Christum apparuisse nolite eis credere dicentibus ista de me Non enim digna est Diuinitatis meae haec notitia OsteÌ„dens per haec quòd ab ipsis saepè Veris Ecclesijs excunt seductores Proptereà ne ipsis quidem credendum est nisi ea vel dicant vel faciant quae conuenientia sint Scripturis Yea if they saie that Christe hathe appeared in the very true Churches of God yet beleeue them not For this is no woorthy or sufficient knoweledge of my Godhed By this he sheweth that out of the very true Churches oftentimes come foor the deceiuers Therefore wee maie not beleeue no not them that speake vnto vs in the name of the Churche onlesse they speake and doo suche thinges as are agreeable to the Scriptures In like manner againe saithe Origen Necesse nobis est in restimonium vocare Sancras Scripturas Sensus quippe nostri enarrationes sine ijs restibus non habent fidem Wee muste needes calle to witnesse the Holy Scriptures For our iudgementes and expositions without those witnesses carrie no credit And to leaue al other like authorities that might he alleged for shorte conclusion S. Augustine saithe Solis Canonicis Scripturis sine vlla recusatione coÌ„sensum debeo I owe my consente without gaine saieinge not vnto the Doctours or Fathers but Onely vnto the Canonical Scriptures But the Bishoppes in those Councelles saithe M. Hardinge brought foorthe and folowed the expositions of the Auncient Learned Fathers And wherefore might they not What man euer taught or saide the contrarie Yet notwithstandinge they alleged them not as the fundations or groundes but onely as approued and faitheful witnesses of the Truthe Whiche thinge if M. Hardinge happily wil denie maie easily appeare by the woordes of Cyrillus pronounced and published openly in the Councel of Chalcedon Gratulamur nobis mutuò quòd nostrae vestrae Ecclesiae Fidem habent
aske me Wherefore would ye haue al sutche other Authorities put away I answeare Bicause I would haue the Holy Churche to he proued not by the Doctrines of menne but by the VVoorde of God So saithe S. Augustine vnto other the Donatistes Auferantur de medio Chartae nostrae procedat in medium Codex Dei Audi Christum dicentem audi Veritatem loquentem Take a waie from emongst vs any our own Bookes Let the Booke of God comme emongste vs. Heare what Christe saithe Herken what the Truthe speaketh Againe he saithe Audi dicit Dominus Non dicit Donatus aut Rogatus aut Vincentius aut Hilarius aut Ambrosius aut Augustinus sed dicit Dominus Heare this The Lorde saithe Heare not this Donatus saithe Rogatus saithe Vincenius saithe Hilarius saithe Ambrose saithe Augustine saithe But herken to this The Lorde saithe In like fourme of woordes saithe S. Ambrose Nolo nobis credatur Scriptura recitetur Non ego dico à me In principio erat Verbum sed audio Non ego effingo sed lego I would not ye should beleeue vs But reade the Scriptures I saye not of mee selfe In the beginninge was the Woorde But I heare it I make it not but I reade it Likewise saithe Chrysostome Oro vos omnes vt relinquatis quid huic aut illi videatur de his à Scripturis haec omnia inquirite I beseeche you al weigh not what this man or that man thinketh but touching al these thinges searche the Scriptures Nowe where as it pleaseth M. Hardinge to telle vs of an Argumente Negatiue from Special to General and so to cal vs to the remembrance of our Logique pleaseth it him also to remeÌ„ber that the Argument that wee grounde of S. Augustines woordes holdeth not as it is here imagined froÌ„ Special to General but froÌ„ the imperfection and weakenesse of the wisedome of man to the stabilitie and certainetie of Goddes Holy Woorde And therefore the Olde Learned Father Origen saithe as it is alleged before Sensus nostri Enarrationes fine his testibus non habent fidem Our iudgementes and Expositions without these witnesses of the Scriptures haue no credite In like sorte S. Hierome Quamuis SaÌ„ctus sic aliquis post Apostolos quamuis disertus sit non habet Authoritatem After the Apostles of Christe notwithstandinge somme man be Holy notwithstandinge he be eloquente yet he wanteth Authoritie Therefore S. Augustine saithe Cedamus consenuamus Scripturae Sacrae quae nec falli potest nec fallere Let vs yeeld and consente to the Holy Scripture whiche can neither deceiue nor be deceiued For this cause M. Hardinge S. Augustine not onely in the mater that laye bitweene him and Pettlianus but also in al other maters what soeuer so often appealed from al Fathers and Councelles vnto the Scriptures The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 3. Likewise S. Hierome Al those thinges saithe he whiche without the Testimonie of the Scriptures are holden as deliuered from the Apostles be throughly smitten downe by the Swerde of Goddes Woorde M. Hardinge Ye would falne remoue vs from a good hold I see wel whiche is the Authoritie of the Holy Faâ—thers of Ancient Traditions and of the Vniuersal Churche Al these would ye to be of no force against Heretiques For ye knowe the Fathers and the Churche to be againste you and that so longe as they are beleued your Doctrine shal not be receiued as alwaies founde to be newe and of priuate deuâ—se If we were driuen from these ye doubt not but to matche vs wel yenough in the Scriptures And as ye would handle the mater I thinke so my selfe verely For when al Authoritie and iudgemente of the Fathers and of the Churche is shakeÌ„ quite of in any coÌ„trouersie by whome shal we be tried By the Scriptures ye saie But when bothe ye and we alleage Scriptures to a contrary purpose and when we vary about the sense of the Scriptures by whom then shal we be iudged Perhaps ye wil referre the iudgement of doubtful maters to the Holy Ghoste VVe refuse not tharbitrement and Vmpiership of the Holy Ghoste For the same hath ben promised by Christe to the Churche to remaine with the Churche for euer to teache what thinges so euer he saide to lead men into al Truthe And thus for iudgemente and trial of Truthe we shal be retourned to the Churche and to the Fathers by whom the Holy Ghoste speaketh vnto vs whose Authoritie and due estimation ye go aboute to remooue from vs. But let vs see what force ye bringe to driue vs from this holde Makinge your batterie against it what shoote ye of but VVinde and Paper Your Artillerie makethe a noâ— es but it geueth no blowe As in the laste allegation ye falsified the sense of S. Augustine so in this ye falsifie bothe the sense and woordes of S. Hierome The woordes as ye allege them seeme to be spoken against what so euer Tradition of the Apostles VVhiche woordes or any the like to sutche purpose were neuer vtered by any Catholike Doctour of the Churche mutche lesse by S. Hierome Looke ye againe and vewe better the place ye shal saye your selues that I finde the faulte of falsefyeinge in you not without cause S. Hierome in his Commentaries vpon those woordes of the Prophete Aggaeus Et vocaui siccicitatem super tâ—â—ram super Montes I haue called the drought to come vpon the Earthe and vpon the Hilles c. First she winge the literal sense accordingly as the Hebrew woorde there by him noted signifieth Siccitatem drought theÌ„ treatinge Mystically as the seuenty Interpreters haue turned that woorde into Romphaeam that is a swerde and vnderstandinge by the swerde the VVoorde of God thereof takethe occasion briefly to saie what this swerde doothe how it destroieth the negligent soule whiche is expounded to be drie earthe and howe it plaguethe Montaines that lifte vp them selues against the knowledge of God whereby he meanethe Heretikes Of whom he tellethe howe they flatter the deceiued peoples with theire Breade Wine and Oile by whiche he meaneth theire Heresies as it were with meates and drinkes and refection There Breade saithe he any man maie very aptly cal it the Bread of VVaylinge and theyr VVine the madnesse of Dragons and the madnesse of Serpentes incurable And theire Oile the promisinge of Heauenly thinges wherewith they doo as it were anointe theire Disciples and promise them rewardes of theire labours which the Prophete detesteth sayeinge the Oile of the sinner shal not anoint my head After this folowe the woordes of S. Hierome whiche ye haue falsified to the intent they might seeme to serue your false meaninge Sed alia quae absque Authoritate Testimonijs Scripturarum quasi Traditione Apostolica reperiunt atque coÌ„fingunt percutit gladius Dei But the Swerde of God strikethe also other thinges whiche the Heretiques for of theâ— he speaketh deuise and faine of theire owne
Coeterùm omnes Apostolorum Successores sunt Quid mihi profers Vnius Vrbis consuetudinem What doothe a Bishop sauâ—nge onely the Orderinge of Ministers but a Prieste maye doo the same Neither maye wee thinke that the Churche of Rome is one and the Churche of al the worlde biside is another Fraunce Englande Aphrica Persia Leuâ—nte India and al the Barbarous Nations woorship one Christe and keepe one rule of the Truthe If vvee seeke for Authoritie The whole worlde is greater then the Cittie of Rome Where so euer there be a Bishop be it at Eugubium be it at Rome be it at Constantinople be it at Rhegium be it at Alexandria be it at Tanais they are al of one woorthinesse they are al of one Bishoprike The Power of the Richesse and the basenesse of Pouertie maketh not a Bishop either Higher or Lower For they are al the Apostles Successours What bringe you me the Custome of Rome beinge but one Cittie Nowe if M. Hardinge wil steale awaie in the darke as his manner is and saie that S. Hierome spake onely of the Merite of Life or of the Office of Priesthoode sette some man telle him that this was no parte neither of the question mooued nor of the answeare of S. Hierome And S. Hierome in plaine and expresse woordes saithe Si Authoritas quaeritur If vvee seeke not for Merite of Life but for Authoritie in gouernmente therein the whole worlde is greatte then the Cittie of Rome M. Hardinge imagineth S. Hierome spake onely of I knowe no what but S. Hierome him selfe saithe he speaketh namely of Authoritie And whereas M. Hardinge is so highly offended with the chaunginge of this woorde Merite into this woorde Preeminence and saithe farther that these False Platers thought thereby to winne the game it maye please him to remember that howe so euer the game goe S. Hierome him selfe plainely plaide the selfe same game I meane that S. Hierome vsinge this woorde Merite without question meante Preeminence For thus he saithe Potentia Diuitiarum Paupertatis humilitas vel Sublimiorem vel Inferiorem Episcopum non facit The Power of Richesse and the basenesse of Pouertie maketh not a Bishop either Higher or Lower M. Hardinge mighte easily hauè seene that Higher and Lower perteine not to Merite of Life but to Preeminence Therefore lette him looke better vpon his Booke before he thus lightly condemne others for corruption I graunt it is true as M. Hardinge saithe This quarrel first beganne aboute a particulare Custome of the Churche of Rome where as the Draâ—ons Vaunted them selues and would be placed aboue the Priestes But here M. Hardinge as his manner is willingly dissembleth and suppresseth somewhat S. Augustine more liuely and fully expresseth the same For thereof he writeth thus Quidam qui nomen liabet Falcidij Duce stultitia Romanae Ciuitatis Iactantia Leuîtas Sacerdotibus Diaconos Presbyteris coaequare contendit One Falcidius Foolishnesse and the Pride of the Cittie of Rome leadinge him thereto laboureth to make the Deacons Equal with the Priestes This lewde disorder S. Hierome controlleth by the Examples of other Churches and saithe that therein the Authoritie of the whole worlde is greatter then the Authoritie of the Churche of Rome Of whiche also he seemeth to speake scornefully and with some disdeigne For thus he saithe Quid mihi profers Vnius Vrbis Consuerudinem What bringe you me the Custome of Rome beinge but One Cittie By whiche woordes it seemeth he made smal accoumpte of the Cittie of Rome But M. Hardinge saithe The Primates had Authoritie ouer other Inferiour Bishops I graunte they had so How be it thei had it by agreemente Custome But neither by Christe nor by Peter or Paule nor by any Kighte of Goddes Woorde S. Hierome saith Nouerint Episcopi se magis Consuetudine quà m Dispofitionis Dominicae Veritate Presbyteris esse Maiotes in coÌ„mune debere Ecclesiam â—egere Let Bishoppes vnderstande that they are aboue the Priestes rather of Custome theâ— of any Truthe or Right of Christes Institution and that they ought to rule the Churche al togeather And againe Idem ergo est Presbyter qui Episcopus Etantequam Diaboli instinctustudia in Religione fierent diceretur in populis Ego sum Pauli Ego Apollo Ego Cephae CoÌ„muni Presbyterorum Consilio Ecclesiae gubernabantur Therefore a Prieste and a Bishop are bothe one thinge And before that by the inflaiminge of the Diuel partes were taken in Religion and these woordes were vttered emonge the people I holde of Paule I holde of Apollo I holde of Peter the Churches were gouerned by the Common Aduise of the Priestes S. Augustine saithe Secundum honorum vocabula quae iam Ecclesiae vsus obtinuit Episcopatus Presbyterio maior est The office of a Bishop is aboue the office of a Prieste not by Authoritie of the Scriptuces but after the Names of Honour whiche the Custome of the Churche hath nowe obteined As for Pope Leo his owne Authoritie in his owne cause cannot be greate The Emperoure saithe Nemo debet sibiius dicere Noman maie minister Lowe vnto him selfe And it is noted thus in the Decrées Papa non debet esse Iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his owne cause It is wel knowen that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this Vniuersal Authoritie these many hundred yeeres Pope Innocentius was therefore reprooued of Pride and worldly Lordlinesse by the whole Councel of Aphrica Pope Bonifacius 2. condemned â— Augustine al the saide whole Councel of Aphrica called them al Heretiques and Schismatiques for the same and said they were al leadde by the Diuel Pope Zosimus to mainteine this claime corrupted the Holy Councel of Nice S. Hilarie and other Learned Bishoppes of France for vsurpinge sutche vnlawful Authoritie charged this same Pape Leo of whom we speake with Pride and Ambition But gentle Reader that thou maâ—ste the better vnderstande what credite thou oughtest to geue to this Pope Leo specially settinge foorthe his owne Authoritie I beséethe thée consider with what Maiestie of woordes and howe far aboue measure he auanceth the Authoritie of S. Peter These be his woordes Christus Petrum in Consortium Indiuiduae Vnitatis assumpsit Christe receiued Peter into the Companie of the Indiuisible Vnitie Authoritate Domini mei Petri Apostoli By the Authoritie not of Christe but of my Lorde Peter the Apostle Deo Inspirante Beatissimo Petro Apostolo By the Inspiration of God and of S. Peter the Apostle Deus à Petro velut à quodam Capite dona sua velut in Corpus omne diffudit God froÌ„ Peter as from the Heade hath powred cut his giftes into al the Body Nihil erit ligatum aut solutum nisi quod Petrus ligauerit aut soluerit There shal be nothinge bounde or loosed but that Peter shal binde or loose Nunc quoque Petrus pascit Oues
fuerunt mutua inter ipsos Charitate vt alius alio Praeceptore ac Duce vsi fuerint Aske of your Fathers and they wil telle you that although Bishoprikes be diuided and sundred by distance of place yet were they euer knitte togeather as with a Garlande and euer ruled by One Aduise In deede the People was euer mingled togeather But the Bishoppes were al so ioined in Charitie that euery of them was contente to be taught and to be leadde by other Therefore as many Faithes in sundrie Faithefulles are but One Faithe as many Churches are but one Churche as many Baptismes are but one Baptisme Euen so saithe S. Cyprian many Bishoprikes are but One Bishoprike and therein as wel the Bishop of Rome as also euery other seucral Bishop hath his portion I saie The Bishoprike of Rome is not this Whole Bishoprike but a Parte Not the Body of the Sunne but a beame Not the stemme of the Trée but a braunche And thus by S. Cyprians minde neither doothe one Bishop holde of an other Nor is any One Bishop Heade of the Whole Nor is One Bishop al in al but al Bishoppes are onely One The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuision 6. And accordinge to the iudgement of the Nicene Councel wee saie that the Bishop of Rome hath no more iurisdiction ouer the Churche of God then the reste of the Patriarkes either of Alexandria or of Antioche haue M. Hardinge If it be a shame to belie the Deuil accordinge to the olde Prouerbe what is it to belie the Churche of God represented in the Nicene Councel The sixth Canon amonge al others of the Nicene Councel is that you grounde your surmise vpon I knowe wel For that hath benne wreasted to your purpose by certaine of your side And the same rightly construed maketh moste againste you For it seemeth to acknowledge the Bishoppe of Rome his Supremacie and Soueraigntie of iudgement ouer other Patriarkes These be the woordes of the Canon rightly Englished hed Let the Auncient custome continewe in force whiche is in Egypte Lybia ▪ and Pentapoli so that the Bishop of Alexandria haue Power ouer them al. Quandoquidem etiam Episcopo Romano hoc consuetum est For asmuch as the B. of Rome hath thus vsed Likewise in Antiochia also and in other Prouinces let the Churches keepe theire Prerogatiue VVhat can be gathered of the woordes of this Canon but that for ratefiynge the iurisdiction of the Patriarkes of Alexandria and Antiochia the Fathers of the Nicene Councel thought good to alter nothinge but to folowe the Auncient custome of Olde time vsed and allowed by the B. of Rome For it is asmuche to saie as this In asmuche as the B. of Rome hath benne wonte from the beginninge to graunt to the B. of Alexandria iurisdiction ouer Egypte Lybia and Pentapoli the Nicene Councel folowinge his authoritie and rule or at the least his vsage willeth and graunteth that the saide Bishop retaine and keepe his auncient right For if the B. of Alexandria had not receiued sutche iurisdiction by Auctoritie and graunt of the B. of Rome of olde time what reason shoulde haue moued those Fathers for confirmation thereof to alleage the custome of the B. of Rome And in that case whereto perteined the additiō of the cause Quia Episcopus Romanus hoc consueuit bicause this was the Bishop of Rome his custome If this had not benne theire meaninge they would neuer so haue spoken For what was his custome other then to allotte those Prouinces to the B. of Alexandria If any other thinge be alleaged to haue benne his maner and custome besides that the woordes of the Canon beare it not what had that benne to the purpose what so euer it be for cause and confirmation of the B. of Alexandria his iurisdiction ouer Egypte Lybia and Pentapoli Alleage you Defender for olde custome of the B. of Rome what elles you liste so that you make no violence to the Canon and thereupon make your argument inferringe of your allegation the Conclusion Ergo the B. of Alexandria ought to haue iurisdiction ouer Egypte Lybia and Pentapoli and you shal finde it to be suche an argument as any Sotte woulde be ashamed to make Against this if it shal like you to Replie wee warne you before that neither ye take aduantage of a doubteful interpretation as we knowe that Canon to be founde in diuerse Bookes not so plainely Translated and therefore we require you to stande to the Original as it is in Greeke neither that ye defende your lie with the wrested Exposition of Theodore Balsamon who hath written Greeke Commentaries vpon the Canons of the Councels sithens the schisme of the Greekes him selfe beinge a Schismatike For he beinge a Greeke borne and prick◠with the hatred of his Nation against the Latine Churche and specially the See of Rome in thexposition of that sixth Canon of the Nicene Councel swarueth bothe from learninge and also from reason The B. of Sarisburie In déede it is a shame to belie any creature for that lieinge is shameful of it selfe And therefore M. Hardinge ye mighte doo mutche better to vse it lesse You haue brought vs here an Exposition of the Councel of Nice sutche as I thinke from that time vntil this time hath seldome benne hearde of You saie The Bishop of Romes Custome was to geue Iurisdiction to the Patriarkes of Alexandria of Antioche and of Hierusalem and that thei had none Authoritie of Gouernmente but onely so mutche as was limited and allowed by him And this you saye was the onely and vndoubted meaninge of that Councel This fantasie is not here auouched by any Auncient Doctour or Learned Father Therefore wée muste thinke what so euer it be it is your owne And weighinge the strangenesse of the same I muste needes saie of yow as S. Hierome saide sometime of one Rheticius in the like case Rheticius eloquens quidem est sed ineptus Interpres Rheticius is an eloquente man in deede and yet but a fonde Interpreter For it is certaine and knowen euen vnto Children that the Bishop of Rome before the Councel of Nice had neither sutche Custome of Superioritie nor sutche dealinge of Iurisdictions Pope Pius Secundus saithe Ante Nicenam Synodum vnusquisque sibi vixit paruus respectus ad Romanā Ecclesiam halebatur Before the Councel of Nice euery Bishop liued to him selfe and there was then smal regarde had to the Churche of Rome As for our sortishe Argumentes sutche as by your iudgemente any sorte would be ashamed to make I maye leaue them wel to you M. Hardinge not for that ye lacke them greately but for that as it appeare the by your Bookes ye knowe beste howe to vse them Touchinge the sixthe Canon of this Councel whiche you imagine is so darke and doubteful I truste it shal be plainely and clearely opened by them that were neuer hitherto accounted sottishe The woordes
seruantes vt in aliquo si nutauerit vacillauerit Veritas ad originem Dominicam Euangelicam atque Apostolicam Traditionem reuertamur inde surgat actus nostri ratio vnde Ordo Origo surrexit If the Pipes of yâ— Conduit which before ranne with abundance happen to faile doo wee not vse to searche to the Head c. The Priestes of God keepinge Goddes commaundementes must do the same that if the Truthe haue fainted or failed in any pointe vvee returne to the very Original of our Lorde and to the Tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that therâ—hence wee maie take the discretion of our dooinges from whence the Order it selfe and Original firste beganne The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 1. Moreouer wee saie that Christe hathe geuen to his Ministers power to binde to loose to open to shutte The B. of Sarisburie The difference that is bitweene vs and our Aduersaries in this whole mater is not great sauinge that it liketh wel M. Hardinge to buste him selfe with néedelesse quarrels without cause Three kindes of Confession are expressed vnto vs in the Scriptures The First made secretely vnto God alone The Seconde Openly before yâ— who le Congregation The Thirde Priuately vnto our Brother Of the twoo former kindes there is no question Touchinge the thirde if it be discretely vsed to the greatter comforte and satisfaction of the Penitente without superstition or other il it is not in any wise by vs reproued The Abuses and Errours sette aparte wée doo nomore mislike a Priuate Confession then a Priuate Sermon Thus mutche onely wée saie that Priuate Confession to be made vnto yâ— Minister is neither commaunded by Christe nor necessarie to Saluation And therefore Chrysostome saithe Non dico tibi vt te prodas in publicum neque vt te accuses apud alios Sed obedire te volo Propherae dicenti Reuela Domino viam tuam I wil thee not to bewraye thee selfe openly nor to accuse thee selfe before others But I counsel thee to obeie the Prophete saieinge Open thy waye vnto the Lorde And Gratian hauinge thorowly disputed and debated the whole mater of bothe sides in the ende leaueth it thus at large Cui harum sententiarum potiâ—sâ— adhaerenduÌ„ sit Lectoris iudicio reseruatur Vtraque enim fautores habet Sapientes Religiosos Viros Whether of these twoo opinions it were better to folowe it is leafte to the discretion of the Reader For either side is fauoured bothe by Wise and also by Godly menne Therefore the Glose there concludeth thus Meliâ—s dicitur Confessionem institutam fuisse à quadam Vniuersalis Ecclesiae Traditione potiùs quà m ex Noui vel Veteris Testamenti Authoritate It is better to saie that Confession was Ordeined by somme Tradition of the Vniuersal Churche then by the Authoritie of the Newe or Olde Testamente Likewise saithe Theodorus sometime Archebishop of Canturburie a Gréeke borne Quidam Deo solummodò confiteri debeâ—e peccata dicunt vt Graeci Some saie wee are bounde to confesse our sinnes onely to God as doo the Greciâ—â—s Whereupon the Glose noteth thus Apud Graecos Confessio non est Necessaria quia non emanauit ad illos Traditio talis Emonge the Grecians Confession is not Necessarie for that no sutche Tradition euer came emongest them But what neede many woordes M. Hardinge him selfe in the discourse hereof is forced to confesse that the Expresse Terme of Auriculare or Secrete Confession is Seldome mentioned in the Ancient Fathers His tale had benne truer if he had saide thus The Expresse terme of Auriculare or Secrete Confession is Neuer mentioned in the Ancient Fathers Nowe to passe ouer certaine other M. Hardinges vnnecessarie talkes hée groweth to the mater in this sorte M. Hardinge Concerninge the ministers of the Churche wee saie that they open and shutte by dispensinge the Sacramentes who haue theire vertue of the merites of Christe For where as the Sacramentes haue issued and flowed out of the side of our sauiour Christe sleepinge on the Crosse as by allusion wee maie vse the woordes of the olde figure wherewith the Churche is buylded therefore in the Sacramentes of the Churche the efficacie of the Passion remaineth And for that cause to the Ministers also of the Churche who be dispensours of the Sacramentes a certaine power is geeuen to remoue the barre that excludeth vs from Goddes fauour not through their owne but through Goddes vertue and power and merite of Christes Passion And this power is called by a metaphore the Keie of the Churche whiche is the Keie of Ministerie whereof we shal speake hereafter This power so muche as concerneth releasse of sinnes is exercised in the Sacramente of Penaunce to the benefite of them that after Baptisme be relapsed and fallen into sinne againe Of whiche power no Christen man doubteth onlesse he holde the Heresie of the Nouatians who were condemned for Heretikes by the Churche because they denied that Priestes in the Churche had authoritie to remitte sinnes and so denied the Sacramente of Penaunce The B. of Sarisburie That dewly receiuinge the Holy Sacramentes ordeined by Christe wée receiue also yâ— Remission of Sinnes it is not any way denied For the Substance of al Sacramentes is the Woorde of God whiche S. Paule calleth Verbum Reconciliationis The Woorde of atonemente This Woorde is the Instrumente of Remission of Sinne The Sacramentes are the Seales affixed vnto the same The Prieste is the meane S. Augustine saithe In Aqua Verbum mundat Detrahe Verbum quid est Aqua nisi Aqua In the Water it is the VVoorde of God that maketh cleane Take the VVoorde awaye and what is VVater els but VVater Hereof wée shal haue cause to saie more hereafter Al that is here brought in touchinge Nouatus it is vtterly from the purpose For Nouatus neuer denied but a sinner might Confesse his Sinnes either secretely to God alone or publiquely and openly before the whole Congregation As for Auriculare Confession to the Prieste for ought that maie appeare he neuer heard of it But herein stoode his whole erroure that he thought who so euer had committed any great notorious Sinne after Baptisme notwithstandinge any Submission or Satisfaction he was hable to make yet might he neuer be reconciled vnto his Brethren or be receiued againe into the Churche not that he would hereby driue the Penitent sorowful sinner to despaire of Goddes mercie but as somme Learned menne haue thought onely for example and terrour vnto others And therefore Beatus Rhenanus saithe In hac sententia Veterum permulti fuerunt in ijs etiam Augustinus S. Augustine saithe Cautâ— salubâ—â—terque prouisum est vt locus illius Humilimae Poenitentiae semel in Ecclesia concedatur ne medicina vilis minùs utilis esset aegrotis Iâ— hath benne discretely and wholesomely prouided that it should not be graunted to any man to
calleth the Power of God vnto Saluation and Verbum Reconciliationis The VVorde whereby wee be Reconciled vnto God And for this cause Chrysostome saithe as it is alleged by M. Hardinge that the Prieste hathe the same Power that Christe had For that he Preacheth the same Woorde of God that Christe Preached And in this sense Christe saithe vnto his Disciples As my Liuinge Father sente me euen so and with like Commission doo I sende you Otherwise the Power of Christe farre surmounteth and passeth al Creatures not onely in Earthe but also in Heauen Christe him selfe thereof saithe thus Al thinges are deliuered to me of my Father And the Prophete Esai saithe Ponam Clauem Domus Dauid super humerum eius Aperiet nemo Claudet Claudet nemo Aperiet I wil set the Keie of the House of Dauid vpon his shoulder Hee shal Open and noman shal Shutte Hee shal Shutte and noman shal Open. Of this Doctrine saithe M. Hardinge foloweth a greate inconuenience For then saithe he the Power of the Keies consisteth not so mutche in the Minister as in the Sinner that heareth and beléeueth This inconuenience is nothinge so greate as it is pretended The errour hereof standeth in the Equiuocation or doubtful taking of one Woorde For one thing maie be in an other sundrie waies As Remission of Sinnes maie be in the Prieste as in the Messenger In the Woorde of God as in the Instrument In the Penitente partie as in the Receiuer The offeringe hereof is in the Minister but the effecte and force is in the Sinner Therefore S. Luke saithe God Opened the Harte of the Silck woman that she should geue Eare vnto the woordes that were spoken by S. Paule And Christe saithe VVho so euer shal Beleeue and be Baptized shal be saued but he that beleeueth not shal be damned Likewise Peter Lombarde him selfe saithe Ex his apertè ostenditur quo'd Deus ipse Poenitentem soluit quando intus illuminat inspirando veram Cordis Contritionem Hereby it plainely appeareth that God him selfe Looseth the Penitente when by geeuinge him in warde lighte hee inspireth into him the true Contrition of the Harte And therefore Clemens Alexandrinus saithe Fides nostra est Clauis Regni Coelorum Our Faithe is the Keie of the Kingedome of Heauen And S. Augustine likewise saithe Cor Clausum habent quia Clauem Fidei non habent They haue theire hartes shutte bicause they lacke the Keie of Faithe Againe he saithe Suscitari mortuus nisi intâ—is clamante Domino non potest The deade man cannot be raised againe onlesse the Lorde Crie within him And to comme neare to the pourpose Gratian him selfe saithe Voluntas Sacerdotis nec prodesse nec obesse potest sed meritum benedictionem poscentis The wil of the Prieste can neither further nor hinder but the Merite of him that desireth Absolution Touchinge the Obiection of Frantique Personnes and maddemenne in what sorte and howe farre Absolution taketh place in them for as mutche as it is an extraordinarie case I thinke it neither needeful nor easy to define In deede a question is moued by Pope Innocentius the thirde whether and in what sorte a man either in his maddenesse or in his sleepe maye be Baptized And S. Augustine seemeth to witnesse that Children sommetime were Baptized in theire Mothers Wombe Likewise he writeth of a fréende of his owne Cùm iaceret sine sensu in dolore laetali desperaretur Baptizatus est nesciens Whereas hee laye in a Traunse without sense in deadly paine and was despaired of hee was Baptized and knewe not of it Bonauentura addeth somme force vnto the mater and demaundeth this question An aliquis possit absolui inuitus VVhether a man maie be Absolued againste his wil or no. But concerninge the Absolution of madde menne in the time of theire phrenesie It seemeth this was bothe the meaninge of Leo and the Godly discretion of the Churche at that time that if a man standinge Excommunicate had happened to be berefte of his senses and beinge in that case had benne likely to departe this life vpon proufe of his former repentance he should be restoared that he might departe in peace as a Member of the Churche of God The practise hereof wée finde in the Councel of Carthage by these woordes Si is qui Poenitentiam in infirmitate petit in Phrenesim versus fuerit dent testimonium qui eum audiuerunt accipiat Poenitentiam If he that desired reconciliation by Penaunce in his sicknesse afterward fal Madde let them that hearde him beare witnesse with him and so let him receiue Penance This was onely a publike Testimonie vnto the Churche that the partie Excommunicate was repentante before when his minde was quiet And what thinge els M. Hardinge can geather hereof I cannot tel Certainely in this Order and manner they restoared not onely Madde menne but also deade menne vnto the Churche For so it is noted vpon the Decrées Ex quo cùm per eum non stabat el communicare debemus Et ita est absoluendus post mortem VVherefore seeinge there was no lacke in his parte wee ought to Communicate with him And so he muste be Absolued after his deathe The woordes that S. Augustine often vseth vnto Beginners or Entrers of the Faithe called Catechumeni are vttred rather for terrour of others then for rigoure of Truthe as shal appeare For otherwheres he writeth thus Catechumeni secundum quendam modum per Signum Christi sanctificantur The Catechumeni or Beginners after their sorte are sanctified by the Signe of Christe Againe he saith to them Non dum renati estis sed per Crucis Signum in vtero Sanctae Matris Ecclesiae iam concepti estis Ye are not yet borne a newe but by the Signe of the Crosse ye are already conceiued in the VVombe of the Holy Churche your Mother Therefore hauinge thus once entred into the Faithe of Christe although they happened afterwarde to departe this life without Baptisme yet the Churche oftentimes thought it good to Iudge wel of them S. Ambrose doubted not but the Emperour Valentinian departed hence in Goddes fauoure And yet was the same Emperoure but a Beginner and a Nouice in the Faithe and departed hence without Baptisme M. Hardinge saithe further Onlesse the Penitente make particulare rehearsal of al his sinnes the Prieste or Minister can be no Iudge Where vnto I adde also further Notwithstandinge any rehearsal that maye be made yet can the Prieste neuer be but a doubteful Iudge S. Augustine saithe Quid ergo mihi est cum Hominibus vt audiant Confessiones meas quasi sanaturi sint Omnes Languores meos Vnde sciunt cùm à meipso de meipso audiunt an verum dicam Quandoquidem nemo scit Hominum quid agatur in Homine nisi Spiritus Hominis qui est in Homine VVhat haue I to
Facilè patior vt quae Christus nobis dedit Salutis adiumenta eorum vsus Necessarius dicatur quando scilicet datur facultas Quanquam Semper admonendi sunt Fideles non aliam esse cuiusuis Sacramenti Necessitatem quà m Instrumentalis Causae cui nequaquam alliganda est Dei vittus Vocem sanè illam nemo pius est qui non toto pectore exhorreat Sacramenta res esse Superfluas I can wel suffer that what so euer healpes of Saluation Christe hath geuen vs the vse thereof be coumpted Necessarie I meane when we maye haue oportunitie and time to vse them How be it thus mutche the faitheful muste be warned that the Necessitie of any Sacramente is none otherwise but as of a Cause Instrumental vnto whiche Cause wee maye not in any wise binde the Power of God But that the Sacramentes be thinges Superfluous no Godly man can abide to heare it Where you further charge M. Caluine for saieinge The Children of the Faithful are borne Holy ye shoulde rather herewith haue charged S. Paule For thus he saithe Nunc Liberi vestri Sancti sunt Nowe are your children Holy Ye should haue remembred M. Hardinge that these be S. Paules woordes and not M. Caluines His meaninge is that the Children of the Faitheful notwithstandinge by Nature they be the Children of Anger yet by Goddes Frée Election they be Pure and Holy This is S. Paules vndoubted Doctrine Whiche notwithstandinge be neuer neither despised the Sacramentes of Christe nor leadde the people â–ª as you saie to Mahomete or Epicure Here at the laste M. Hardinge to returne as he saithe to his Keies first beginneth with the spiteful woordes and scorneful scoffes and light Sprite of Sir Defender whiche he saithe he learned in the Schoole of Sathan nowe lieth bounds in Sathans fetters To answeare al sâ—tche M. Hardinges vanities it were but vaine Wise menne wil not greatly weigh these childishe Tragedies But he saithe The Prieste holdeth a Consistorie is a Iudge ouer the sinnes of the People But beinge a Iudge he cannot discerne Sinnes onlesse he knowe them Neither can he knowe them but by Confession Therfore saithe M. Harding VVee tel them that Confession of al Deadly Sinnes is of the Institution of God and not of Man Mary he saithe touchinge the manner of Confession secretely to the Priest alone it is moste agréeable to Natural Reason that secrete Sinnes be Confessed secretely Here I beseche thée good Christian Reader note this one thinge by the waye M. Hardinge contrarie to common order hathe brought vs the Institution of God without any manner Woorde of God And thus he saithe Wee tel them as if his bare tellinge should stande for proufe Verily notwithstandinge Christe gaue his Apostles Power of Bindinge and Loosing yet it appeareth not yâ— he spake any one woord of Secrete Confession And Gratian a Famouse Doctour of that side doubteth not to saye Latentia peccata non probantur Necessariò Sacerdoti Confitenda It is not proued that Priuie sinnes ought of Necessitie to be Confessed vnto the Prieste And againe Datur intelligi quòd etiam ore tacente Veniam Consequi possumus Wee are geuen to vnderstande that although wee vtter nothing vvith our mouthe yet wee may obteine pardonne or Absolution of our sinnes Therefore notwithstanding al this M. Hardinges tellinge his owne Doctour Gratian telleth him that Auriculare Confession is not of Goddes Institution But wherefore speaketh M. Hardinge so precisely and specially of Deadly Sinnes Or why maie not his Venial Sinnes comme likewise in the rekeninge as wel as others In déede it is specially prouided in yâ— late Chapter at Tridente that Litle Petite Sinnes néede not to be vttered in Confession And Rob. Holcote saithe De Venialibus Confiteri magis est Supererogationis quà m Necessitatis To make Confession of Venial Sinnes is more of Deuotion then of Necessitie And Thomas of Aquine saithe Quidam probabiliter dicunt quòd per ingressum Ecclesiae Consecratae homo coÌ„sequitur Remissionem peccatoruÌ„ Venialium Somme saie and that not without good reason that a man maye obteine Remission of his Venial Sinnes onely by entriâ— into a Churche that is Consecrate And it is pourposely noted in the Glose vpoÌ„ the Decretales Venialia tolluntur vel per Orationem DominicaÌ„ vel per Aquam Benedictam Venial Sinnes may be remoued either by a Pater noster or by Holy Water And therefore perhaps M. Hardinge wil saie accordinge to the iudgemente of these and others his owne Doctours that his Litle Prety Venial Sinnes ought not of dewtie to be rekened but maie otherwise be remitted and haue no neede of Christes Bloude This is a shorter waie to Heauen then either Christe or his Apostles euer taught vs. Howe be it al this errour séemeth firste to haue growen of mistakinge these woordes of Beda Coaequalibus quotidiana Leuia grauiora verò Sacerdoti Pandamus Let vs open our smal and daily Sinnes vnto our felowes and our greate Sinnes vnto the Prieste For the reste M. Hardinges Resolution maie stande withe good fauoure For séeing his Auricular Confession can holde no better by Diuinitie that it may séeme to holde by somme what he did wel to saye It holdeth wel by Natural Reason M. Hardinge saithe The Prieste can be no Iudge without particulare knowledge of euery Sinne Nor can he knowe without hearing Nor can he heare without Confession For answeare hereto Chrysostome saithe as he is before alleged Medicinae locus hic est non Iudicij Non Poenas sed Peccatorum Remissionem tribuens Deo Soli die Peccatum tuum Here is a place of Medicine and not of Iudgemente rendring not punishement but Remission of Sinnes Open thine offences to God Onely But if the Prieste can be no Iudge without knowledge then doubtelesse M. Hardinge your Priestes for the more parte can be no Iudges For your owne Peter Lombarde saithe Scientiam discernendi Omnes Sacerdotes non habent Al Priestes haue not knowledge to discerne bitwene sinne and sinne And many of them be vtterly ignorant and knowe nothinge Notwithstandinge be the Prieste neuer so wise or wel learned yet howe is be hable to enter into the breaste of man and to knowe the Secretes of the harte S. Paule saithe What man knoweth what is in man but the sprite of man that is within him Salomon saithe God Onely knoweth the thoughtes of menne S. Paule saithe God Onely searcheth the Harte and reines And S. Augustine pourposely speakinge hereof as it is saide before saithe thus Vnde sciunt cùm à me ipso de me ipso audiunt an verum dicam Howe knowe they when they heare me speake of mee selfe whether I saie Truthe or no Therefore the Prieste iudginge that yâ— he cannot knowmuste néedes wander vncertainely and be a very doubteful Iudge Neuerthelesse admittinge the Prieste to be a Iudge yet if it may be proued either that he
owne Decrées Fortè tunc tempore Ambrosij non erat facta Institutio Confessionis quae modò est Perhaps then in the time of S. Ambrose whiche was foure huÌ„dred yéres after Christe the manner of Confession that now is vsed was not appointed And Gratian saith Antequam Sacerdoti Ora nostra ostendamus id est Peccata nostra Confiteamur à Lepra peccati mundamur Before wee open our mouthe vnto the Prieste that is to saie before vvee make Confession of our Sinnes the Leprosie of our Sinne is made cleane Theodorus saithe Quidam Deo solummodò confiteri debere peccata dicunt vt Graeci Somme saie wee ought to Confesse our Sinnes onely vnto God as doo the Grecians Peter Lombarde the Chiefe Founder of M. Hardinges Diuinitie saithe thus Sanè dici potest quòd sine Confessione Oris solutione Poenae exterioris Peccata delentur per Contritionem humilitatem Cordis Wee maie safely saye that vvithout Confession of the Mouthe and Absolution of the out warde paine Sinnes be foregeeuen by the Contrition and humilitie of the Harte Briefely Gratian hauinge thorowly debated the mater of bothe sides that is to saie bothe for Confession and againste Confession in the ende concludeth thus as it is saide before Cui harum sententiarum potiùs adhaerendum sit Lectoris Iudicio reseruatur Vtráque enim sententia fautores habet Sapientes Religiosos Viros Whether of these saieinges it is beste to folowe it is leafte to the Iudgemente of the Reader For either Saieinge is mainteined and fauoured both by vvise and by Godly Menne And whereas M. Hardinge saithe Confession of al Sinnes is Commaunded by Christe and his Apostles his owne Glose vpon his owne Decrees openly reproueth his erroure and teacheth him the contrarie The woordes be these Meliùs dicitur Confessionem institutam fuisse à quadam Vniuersalis Ecclesiae Traditione potiùs quà m ex Noui vel Veteris Testamenti Authoritate It is better saide that Confession was appointed by somme Tradition of the Vniuersal Churche then by any Authoritie or Commâ—undemente of the Newe or Olde Testamente Nowe good Christian Reader I beseche thee examine alitle the Truthe of M. Hardinges tale Firste he saithe The Recitinge and Rehearsal of al Sinnes before the Prieste is Necessarie to Saluation Chrysostome answeareth Let God Onely heare thy Confession There is one Vntruthe M. Hardinge saithe General Confession is not sufficiente Peter Lombarde answeareth Sine Confessione Oris c. VVithout any Confession made by mouthe our Sinnes maie be foregeeuen There are twoo Vntruthes M. Hardinge saith Confession of al Sinnes is commaunded by Christe and his Apostles His owne Glose saithe It is Onely a Tradition of the Churche commaunded neither in the Olde Testamente nor in the Newe There are thrée Vntruthes M. Hardinge saithe It was commended vnto vs by the * Doctours and Fathers of the * Primitiue Churche Rhenanus saithe Wée reade not that this kinde of Priuie Confession in the Olde times vvas euer Commaunded And his owne Glose saithe In the time of S. Ambrose whiche was foure hundred yéeres after Christe perhaps it was not vsed There are Foure Fiue Vntruthes M. Harding saithe It hathe euer ben allovved by al the Learned Doctours His owne Gratian answeareth him The Contrarie hath benne mainteined and fauoured bothe bi VVise and by Godly Fathers There are sixe Vntruthes To be shorte M. Hardinge saithe It hathe benne Commended vnto vs by the General vse of the vvhole Churche Theodorus answeareth him The vvhole Churche of Grecia vseth it not There are Seuen apparente and greate Vntruthes disclosed by M. Hardinges owne Doctours He coulde not haue comprised so mutche Vntruthe in so narrowe roome without somme studie Erasmus a man of greate Iudgemente saithe thus Apparet tempore Hieronymi nondum Institutam fuisse Secrètam admissorum Confessionem quam posted Ecclesia salubriter instituit si modò rectè vtantur ea Sacerdotes Laici Verùm in hoc labuntur Theologi quidam parùm attenti quòd quae Veteres scribunt de hurusmodi Publica Generali Confessione ea trahunt ad hanc Occultam longè diuersi generis It appeareth that in the time of S. Hierome whiche was foure hundred yéeres after Christe Secrete Confession of Sinnes vvas not yet ordeyned Whiche notwithstandinge was afterwarde wholesomely and profitably appointed by the Churche so that it be wel vsed as wel by the Priestes as by the People But herein certaine Diuines not consideringe aduisedly what they saie are mutche deceiued for what so euer the Auncient Fathers write of General and Open Confession they wreaste and drawe the same to this Priuie and Secrete kinde whiche is far of an other sorte Here M. Hardinge Erasmus telleth you yée are fowly deceiued and sheweth you also the cause of your erroure for that as he saithe ye consider not aduisedly what ye either reade or write but where so euer ye heare this worde Confession ye imagine streight waie It muste needes be your owne Auriculare Confession and can be none other Laste of al ye graunte The expresse Terme of Auriculare or Secrete Confession is seldome mentioned in the Aunciente Fathers Here M Hardinge wanteth somme parte of your simplicitie If ye would haue your Reader to beleeue you ye shoulde haue alleged certaine of the Auncient Fathers One at the leaste if ye coulde haue founde so many that had at any time vsed the expresse terme of Auriculare or Secrete Confession Otherwise it had benne the better and plainer waie to haue Confessed expressely that the same expresse terme is neuer vsed in any one of al the Ancient Fathers Howe be it if Auriculare or Secrete Confession had then benne vsed it coulde neuer so longe haue lackte a name The Apologie Cap. 7. Diuision 3. Wee saie that the Prieste in deede is a Iudge in this case but yet hath no manner of Right to chalenge an Authoritie or Power as saithe Ambrose M. Hardinge VVhereas ye make preachinge of the Gospel to be the Keies howe cal ye the Prieste Iudge in this case Preache ye neuer so mutche the conscience of man beinge so secrete a thinge as it is howe can ye iudge who in wardly and throughly repenteth and who repenteth not And though one repente and be sory and haue remorse of his former life though he looke vnto the light of the Gospel as ye say and beleue in Christe what then howe can ye iudge of sutche a Persone Do ye knowe his harte by lokinge in his face The Prieste dewly vsinge the Keie of knowledge and discretion doth the office of a Iudge and as he seethe cause either Looseth or Bindeth As touchinge the Priestes Authoritie or Power which to chalenge he hath no right for so your Interpreter maketh you to speake and impute it to S. Ambrose we denie that S. Ambrose saieth euen very so â–ª But â–ª as
Sacramente no more but a Token or Signe specially sith ye teache in your articles that Baptisme at the best is but a Signe and Seale of our newe birthe ye seme not to attribute to Baptisme so mutche as the Scripture dothe Neither is Baptisme onely a Signe or TokeÌ„ that sinnes be remitted but wee beleeue as the Catholique Churche according to the Scriptures teacheth that in and by Baptisme sinnes be fully and truely remitted and put awaie and that not through the Faithe onely of the geuer or receiuer or of any other though hereunto it be necessarie in thâ—se that be come to age of discretion but through the power and vertue of the Sacrament and Gods promise And therefore to whom it is geuen of them it is rightly saide that they be Baptized for remission of their sinnes The scriptures be plaine Firste Ezechiel speakinge of this Holy Sacrament saithe in the person of God I wilshed vpon you cleane water and ye shal be made cleane from al your defilinges and from your Idols wil I clense you Nexte S. Paule saithe That God hath saued vs by the wasshinge of Regeneration and of the renewing of the Holy Ghoste whom he hath powred vpon vs aboundantly by Iesus Christe our Sauiour That I maie adde to these manifest Scriptures the Auctoritie of a Learned Father not whereby to strengthen the truthe of them but to witnesse our right vnderstandinge of them S. Augustine Lib. 3. contra duas epist Pelagian Cap. 3. shewinge the sclaunder of the Pelagians againste the Catholikes saithe thus in theire Persone Againe they that is after theire meaninge the Catholikes auouche that Baptisme maketh not in deede newe menne againe that is to witte that it geueth not ful remission of sinnes c. Thereto eftsones answearinge S. Augustine saithe Mentiuntur iusidiantur tergiuersantur They lye they studye howe to deceiue they seeke shiftes wee saie not this And after certaine sentences retourninge to Baptisme he concludeth thus VVherefore Baptisme wassheth awaie al sinnes vtterly al of dedes wordes thoughtes be they Original or Actual be they done ignorantly or wittingly But it taketh not awaie the infirmitie whiche the regenerate resisteth c. VVhiche place doth not onely set foorthe the vertue of Baptisme but also destroieth the Doctrine of our New Gospellers that affirme concupiscence whiche remaineth after Baptisme to be verily sinne â–ª VVherein they erre manifestly againste the Scripture and sense of the Fathers The B. of Sarisburie Il wil is euer plenetiful of ili wordes M. Hardinge here maketh him selfe mutche mater without cause He teacheth our Newe Cleregie that Baptisme is not onely a Signe or a Token of Remission of sinnes He telleth vs of the Faithe of the Geeuer of the Faithe of the Receiuer Of the Povver of the Sacramente Of Concupiscence that it is no sinne And more I trowe he would haue saide if more had presently comme to minde Verily the poore Newe Cleregie speaketh not one woorde in al this whole place neither of Signe nor of Token nor of the Receiuer nor of the Geeuer nor of the Povver of the Sacrament nor of Concupiscence whether it be Sinne or not Sinne nor of any other like thinge Yet in yâ— ende he taketh S. Augustines vvoordes vvithout his meaninge and crieth againste vs They lie they studie to deceiue they seke shiftes And why so Certainely bicause wée saie Baptisme is a Sacrament of Remission of Sinnes And that the Children of the Faitheful for that they be borne in Sinne and perteine to the people of God ought therefore to be Baptized Other causes then these in any Our Woordes he can finde none True it is that the Sacramente dependeth not neither of the Minister nor of the Receiuer nor of any other For though they be al the Children of sinne yet is Baptisme the Sacramente of Remission of Sinne. S. Augustine saithe Securum me fecit Magister meus de quo spiritus eius dicit Hic est qui Baptizat Christe my Maister hath assured me of whom his owne Sprite saithe this is he that Baptizeth Neuerthelesse concerninge the Faithe of the Parentes and others the Holy Doctours haue sommetimes written otherwise S. Augustine saithe Satis piè recteque creditur Prodesse paruulo eorum Fidem à quibus Consecrandus offertur It is good and Godly to beleue that the Child is holpen by the Faithe of them by whom he is offered or brought vnto Baptisme Againe he saithe Accommodat illis Mater Ecclesia aliorum pedes vt veniant aliorum Cor vt credant Our Mother the Churche lendeth them other mennes fecte that they maie comme â–ª and other mennes hartes that they maie beleeue The like saieings might be alleged out of Iustinus Martyr S. Cyprian S. Hierome and others For thus they write Howe truely I wil not saie But theire woordes be plaine The Prophets Abacuc saithe Iustus ex Fide sua viuet The Juste man shal liue not by the Faithe of his Parentes but by his ovvne Faithe Of this Faith S. Hierome saith Qui plena Fide non suscipiunt Salutare Baptisma accipiunt quidem Aquam sed non accipiunt Spiritum They that receiue not Baptisme with perfite Faithe receiue the VVater But the Holy Ghoste they receiue not S. Augustine saithe Verus Baptismus constat non tam ablutione Corporis quà m Fide Cordis Sicut Apostolica Doctrina tradidit dicens Fide mundans Corda eorum Et alibi Saluos facit Baptisma non Carnis depositio sordiuÌ„ sed conscientiae bonae interrogatio in Deum per Resurrectionem Iesu Christi True Baptisme standeth not so mutche in wasshinge of the Body as in the Faithe of the harte As the Doctrine of the Apostles hathe tought vs saieinge By Faithe purifieinge theire hartes And in an other place Baptisme maketh vs safe not yâ— putting awaie of the filth of the Fleash but the examining of a good conscience before God by the Resurrection of Jesus Christe Likewise againe he saith Vnde ista tanta Virtus Aquae vt corpus tangat Cor abluat nisi faciente Verbo Non quia dicitur sed quia creditur VVhence is al this so greate Vertue or Power of the VVater that it toucheth the Body and wassheth the Harte but by the woorkinge of the VVoord Not for that it is spoken by the Minister but for that it is beleeued of the Faitheful Somme man wil saie Children or Infantes beléeue nothinge but are vtterly voide of Faithe S. Augustine answeareth Qui non crediderit condemnabitur Sicut eos renasci per Ministerium Baptizantium ita etiam eos credere per corda ora confitentium confitemur He that beleeueth not shal be damned VVee confesse that as they be borne againe by the Ministerie of the Baptizers so they beleue by the hartes and mouthes of the Confessours Againe he saithe Habent Fidem propter Fidei Sacramentum Theie haue Faithe bicause they haue
his Resurrection The like wée saie of the Holy Supper Neither is M. Hardinge hable to shewe vs any sufficient cause to the contrarie but VVine or Breade maie haue this Power as wel as VVater Of this whole mater wée shal speake hereafter more at large But if Breade and VVine as M. Hardinge saithe haue no Power to woorke Resurrection what Power then can his Accidentes and emptie Fourmes haue to woorke the same For touching the Body of Christe it selfe his own Doctours could haue tolde him that it enteth not into our Bodies For thus it is noted published for sounde and certaine Doctrine vpon the Decrees Certum est quòd quà m citò Species teruntur dentibus tam citò in Coelum rapitur Corpus Christi It is certaine and out of doubte that as soone as the Accidentes or Fourmes are touched with the teethe straight waie the Body of Christe is taken vp into Heauen Hereof wee maie reason thus Christes Body is suddainely taken vp into Heauen and is not receiued into our Bodies and that as it is noted here is true and certaine The Breade and Wine by M. Hardinges Doctrine are vtterly consumed no parte of the Substance thereof remaining There is nothing leafte there but Fourmes and Accidentes Hereof it must needes folow by this Doctrine that the same bare Fourmes Accidentes haue Power to woorke our ResurrectioÌ„ But it is wel knowen and confessed in al Schooles that the Substance is better and woorthier then is the Accidente Therfore wée maie conclude The Accidente may doo it Ergo. the Substance maie mutche more doo it For the reste M. Hardinge saithe The Substance of the Breade is quite remoued The roundenesse and whitenesse are the Sacrament The thinge thereof is of twoo sortes The one conteined and signified the other signified and not conteined These Mystical fansies maie lie stil vntil M. Hardinge by somme Authoriritie other then his owne haue proued them better True it is that M. Hardinge saithe Bitwéene the Sacramente and the thinge it selfe that is to saie bitwéene the Sacramente and the Body of Christe represented by the Sacramente there is great difference For in déede and verily and in precise manner of speache neither is Christes Body the Sacramente nor is the Sacramente Christes Body S. Augustine saith as it is alleged before Nisi Sacramenta similitudinem quandam earum rerum quatum Sacramenta sunt haberent omninò Sacramenta noÌ„ essent Ex hac autem similitudine plaerunque rerum ipsarum nomina accipiunt Itéque secundum quendam modum Sacramentum Corporis Christi Corpus Christi est Onlesse Sacramentes had a certaine likenesse of the thinges wherof thei be sacramentes without question thei were no Sacramentes And in consideration of this likenesse oftentimes they beare the names of the thinges them selues Therefore after a certaine manner of speache and not otherwise the Sacramente of the Body of Christe is Christes Body Hereof I haue written more at large as occasion was offered in my Former Replie to M. Harding S. Ambrose noting this differeÌ„ce saith thus Non iste Panis qui vadit in ventrem Sed Panis Vitae Aeternae qui animae nostrae Substantiam fulciâ— Not this Breade of the Sacrament that passeth into yâ— belly but the Body of Christe it selfe whiche is the Breade of euerlastinge Life whiche reliueth the Substance of our Soule and is signified by the Sacramente Rabanus Maurus saithe Aliud est Sacramentum aliud vis Sacramenti Sacramentum in Corporis alimentum redigitur Virtute Sacramenti aeternae Vitae dignitas adipiscitur The Sacramente is one thinge The Povver of the Sacramente is an other thinge The Sacramente is changed into the foode or norishemente of the Body by the vertue of the Sacramente is gotten the dignitie of euerlastinge Life Likewise S. Chrysostome In Sacris Vasis non ipsum Corpus Christi sed Mysterium Corporis eius continetur In the Holy Vessels is conteined not the Very Body of Christe it selfe but a Mysterie or Sacramente of his Body So greate difference there is bitwéene the Sacramente the Body of Christe The Sacramente passeth into the Belly Christes Body passeth into the Soule The Sacramente is vpon Earthe Christes Body is in Heauen The Sacramente is corruptible Christes Body is glorious The Sacramente is the Signe Christes Body is the thinge Signified For wante of this distinction M. Hardinge wandreth blindely in the darke he knoweth not whither Therefore S. Augustine saith speaking purposely hereof Ea demum est miserabilis animae seruitus Signa pro rebus accipere This is a miserable bondage of the sâ—ule to take the Signes in steede of the thinges that he signified Whether and in what sense the wicked maie be saide to eate the Body of Christe it shal be discussed hereafter more at large As for M. Hardinges ordinarie Conclusion of Wreasting the Scriptures and Holy Fathers Of plaieinge false Lessons of teachinge as be saithe horrible lies and of subuertinge the people with al other the like furniture wee wil leaue it freely and wholy vnto the Authour The Apologie Cap. 12. Diuision 2. To this Banket wee thinke the People of God ought to be earnestly bidden that they maie al Communicate emonge them selues and openly declare and testifie bothe the godly Societie whiche is emonge them and also the hope whiche they haue in Christe Iesu For this cause if there had benne any whiche woulde be but a looker on and abstaine from the holy Communion him did the Olde Fathers and Bishoppes of Rome in the Primitiue Churche before Priuate Masie came vp excommunicate as a wicked person as a Pagans Neither was there any Christian at that time whiche did Communicate alone whiles other looked on For so did Calixtus in times paste decree that after the Consecration was finished al should Communicate excepte they had rather stande without the Churche doores For thus saithe he did the Apostles appointe and the same the Holy Churche of Rome keepeth stil M. Hardinge Let this Banket be dight as it ought to bee let the best dishe be made readie in due sorte whiche is the very Bodie of our Sauiour Christe let the ghestes be tolde what is set before them at that Holy Table let them be taught to beleue rightly to proue and prepare themselues as behoueth then we thinke it moste conuenient the people of God be bidden thereto not thereby to Communicate amonge themselues onely but also and rather to Communicate with God to be incorporate in Christe and to be made Partakers of al the benefites of God procured to man by the Deathe of his Sonne suffered in that Body whiche at this highe Feaste they Eate This Banket beinge thus set foorthe if some deuoute persons thinke them selues for good causes vnwoorthy to assaie thereof and to receiue that heauenly foode SacrameÌ„tally findinge theÌ„ selues not so wel prepared as S. Paule requireth in that behalfe yet for loue of
Seruierunt Creaturae potiùs quà m Creatori Let vs not confounde the Creature and the Creatour bothe togeather Leste it be saide of vs They haue honoured a Creature more then their Maker The Apologie Cap. 13. Diuision 1. Wee affirme that Breade and Wine are holy and heauenly Mysteries of the Body and Bloude of Christe and that by them Christe him selfe beinge the true Breade of Eternal Life is so presently geuen vnto vs as that by Faithe wee verily receiue his Body and his Bloude Yet saie wee not this so as though wee thought that the Nature and Substance of the Breade and VVine is clerely chāged and goeth to nothinge as many haue dreamed in these later times yet could neuer agree emōge them selues vpon their owne dreames For that was not Christes meaninge that the vvheaten Breade should laie aparte his owne Nature and receiue a certaine newe Diuinitie but that he might rather chaunge vs and to vse Theophylactes woordes might transfourme vs into his Body For what can be saide more plainely then that whiche Ambrose saithe Breade and VVine remaine stil the same thei vvere before and yet are changed into an other thinge Or that whiche Gelasius saithe The Substance of the Breade or the Nature of the VVine ceaseth not to be Or that whiche Theodoretus saithe After the Consecration the Mystical Signes doo not caste of their ovvne propre Nature for thei remaine stil in their Former Substance Forme Kinde Or that whiche Augustine saith That vvhiche ye see is the Breade cuppe so our eies tel vs but that vvhiche your Faithe requireth to be taught is this The Bread is the Body of Christe and the Cuppe is his Bloude Or that whiche Origen saithe The Breade vvhiche is sanctified by the vvoorde of God as touchinge the material Substāce thereof goeth into the belly and is caste out into the priuie Or y◠whiche Christe him selfe saide not onely after the blessinge of the Cuppe but also after he had Ministred the Communion I vvil drinke nomore of this fruite of the Vine It is wel knowen that the fruite of the Vine is Wine not Bloude M. Hardinge In this Sacramente after Consecration the Substance of Breade and VVine beinge tourned into the Substance of the Body and Bloude of Christe the out warde Formes of Breade and VVine whiche remaine are the Sacramentes of Holy thinges the Body and Bloude of Christe The B. of Sarisburie In euery natural thinge twoo thinges are specially to be considered the Substance the Accidente or as M. Hardinge calleth it the outvvarde Fourme For example In Breade the Material thinge that séedeth vs and is changed into the Bloude and nourrishement of our bodies is called the Substance of the Breade The whitenesse the Roundenesse y◠Thicknesse the Swéetenesse other the like that are perceiued outwardly by our senses are called Accidentes Now saithe M. Hardinge for as mutche as the Substance of the Breade Wine is remooued by Consecration for that cause cannot be the Sacrament therefore the Accidentes and Fourmes whiche remaine muste needes be thought to be the Sacramentes And so vpon a false Position as shal appeare he laieth the fundation of al his Doctrine by the olde Rule I trowe that he learned sometimes in his Sophistrie Ex Impossibili sequitur quodlibet Of an Impossibilitie ye maie conclude what ye liste euen as aptely and as truely as somme haue saide If Christe were not Christe then Saincte Patrike shoulde be Christe If M. Hardinge had alleged either Scripture or Doctour or Father or Councel or any other Authoritie biside his owne he might happily haue benne beléeued To this whole fansie gentle Reader in my Former Replie I haue made a seueral answeare Verily Chrise saithe Non bibam ex hoc fructu vitis I wil nomore drinke not of these Accidentes but of this generation and fruite and Substance of the Vine S. Paule saithe Panis quem frangimus Not the Fourmes or Accidentes but the Breade that wee breake And againe Quoties manducabitis Panem hunc As often as ye shal eate not these Accidentes but this Breade S. Cyprian saithe of the same I anis ex multorum granorum adunatione congestus Breade moulded and made of many cornes I doubte not but M. Hardinge wil confesse that cornes yéelde Flower and Substance and not onely Fourmes and Accidentes S. Augustine calleth the Holy Mysterie Sacramentum Panis Vini The Sacramente not of Fourmes and Accidentes as M. Hardinge saithe but of Breade and VVine Cyrillus saith Credentibus Discipulis fragmenta Panis dedit Christe gaue vnto his Disciples beleeuinge in him peeces of Breade not peeces of Accidentes But M. Hardinge hauinge in his fantasie remoued the whole Substance of the Breade in stéede thereof hath brought vs in Holy Fourmes Holy Shevves Holy Accidentes His Accidentes be the Mysteries of Heauenly thinges His Accidentes be the Instrumentes of Goddes Grace His Accidentes be the causes of Remission of Sinne. Wée breake Accidentes Wée eate Accidentes Wée drinke Accidentes wée are fedde with Accidentes The Substance of our Bodies is increased with Accidentes And to be shorte he woorketh al his Miracles by the Power of his Accidentes M. Hardinge VVhy be ye so lothe to speake as the Church speaketh that in this blessed Sacramēt we receiue the Body of Christe VVhy had ye rather saie after a straunge manaer that by Breade and VVine Christ him selfe is so presently geuen vnto vs as that by Faithe we verely receiue his Body and his Bloud The B. of Sarisburie I neuer thought it had benne so great an Heresie to speake as the Apostles of Christe the Learned Doctours of the Churche haue spoken before vs. S. Paule saithe Consepulti sumus cum Christo Per Baptismum in mortem Wee are buried togeather with Christe By Baptisme vnto death S. Hierome saith Per Aquam Baptismi vel per Ignem Spiritus Sancti Aeterni illius Panis Corpus efficitur By the Water of Baptisme or By the Fier of the Holy Ghoste he is made the Body of y◠Euerlastinge Breade S. Augustine saithe Habes Christum in praesenti Per Fidem In praesenti Per Baptismatis Sacramentum In praesenti Per Altaris Cibum Potum Thou haste Christe in Presence By Faithe In Presence By the Sacrament of Baptisme In Presence By the Meate and Drinke of the Aultar S. Cyril saithe Corporaliter Filius Per Benedictionem Mysticam nobis vnitur vt Homo The Sonne of God By the Mystical Blessinge is vnited vnto vs as Man S. Hilarie saithe Christus est in nobis Per Sacramentorum Mysterium Christe is in vs By the Mysterie of the Sacramentes And leste M. Hardinge shoulde thinke to take any greate aduantage by these woordes thus vttered as he others of his side haue often donne S. Augustine in moste plaine wise expoundeth the same Si ad ipsas res Visibiles quibus Sacramenta
Fornicationem non esse peccatum Martinus de Magistris in suo libro De Temperantia quaestione secunda de Luxuria dicit se fateri Fornicationem Simplicem esse Peccatum Mortale Tamen dicit insuper quòd oppositum credere non sit Haereticum quia vt dicit Testimonia Scripturae Sacrae non sunt expressa The Greekes as Guido chargeth them saie that Simple Fornication is no Sinne. Martinus de Magistris in his Booke Of Temperance and in the seconde question disputinge of Lecherie graunteth in deede that Simple Fornication is deadly Sinne. And yet he saithe It is no Heresie to beleeue the contrarie for that as he saithe the Testimonies of the Scriptures touching this mater are not plaine Here M. Hardinge ye haue your owne Doctours minde Martinus saithe It is no Heresie to beleeue that Simple Fornication is no Sinne And this he saithe euen in the very same Booke that he hath written De Temperantia So daungerously M. Hardinge and so shamefully are we deceiued in alleginge your Peltinge Doctours And therefore Alphonsus concludeth thus Sed cum pace illius dixerim ego credo Martinum alioqui virum Doctum in hac parte errasse But to speake with his fauour I beleeue that Martinus de Magistris in this behalfe was mutche deceiued M. Hardinge After this fowle lye foloweth an other Let him remember say these Defenders that they be his men that haue decreed that a priest for fornication ought not to be remoued from his cure To this we may saye that although he be not depriued of his cure yet he may be punished other wise But let vs see how they would proue that they saye By their note in their margent they send vs for proufe to the canon lawe 3. quaest 7. Lata Extra de bigamis Quia circa As touching the chapter Lata in the decrees we finde none suche And in Causa 3. quast 7. there is nothinge to this purpose The paragraphe Quia circa Extra is vnderstanded of them who being in the state of bigamie are not to be promoted to holy orders and not of one who is already made priest that he be not for Fornication remoued But to vnderstande what was donne to a priest that had committed fornication by order of lawe in case any Bishop or priest or deacon after degree of deaconship taken had benne conuict of fornication or aducutrie he was deposed and castout of the Churche and enioined to doo penaunce amonge the lartie VVhiche thinge S. Syluester at length mercifully changed enioininge ten yeres penaunce after a prescript forme whiche to oure newe cleregie woulde seeme very harde and straite Yea further the lawe of the Churche in this case so litle beareth with the sinnefull life of Clerkes that if any Bishop in his Dioces had consented and borne with the fornication of Priestes or Deacons or with the crime of incest for money or praier or had not by Auctoritie of his Bishoply Office duly punished sutche faultes committed the same shoulde be suspended from his Office And this muche wee haue shewed touchinge the remouinge of a Prieste not onely from his benefice but also from his office for cause of fornication wherein these menne moste falsely haue slaundered the Churche as now to any man it may appeere The B. of Sarisburie Here M. Hardinge ye shewe your selfe to be mutche vnskilful in your owne Canons The simpleste Proctour in your Courtes coulde soone haue tolde you that yee are ouer farre deceiued For thus it is written by expresse woordes in your owne Glose vpon the Decrees Dicunt neminem hodiè propter Fornicationem esse deponendum nisi in ea perdurat They saie that for Fornication noman ought this daie to be deposed onlesse he continewe in the same And leste ye shoulde in any wise mistrust or doubte your Glose it is also thus noted of pourpose in faire great letters in the Margine Fornicationis causa hodiè nemo est deponendus Novv a daies noman maie be deposed for Fornication Were there nothinge els to be saide yet this thinge onely were sufficiente But Panormitane also your greateste Canoniste like wise saithe Ad varietatē temporū debent mutari statuta humana Ideò hodie ex Simplici Fornicatione Clericus non deponitur The Lawes of Menne ought to be altered accordinge to the change of times And therefore nowe a daies for Simple Fornication no Prieste is deposed from his benefice Likewise ye haue it noted vpon your Decrees Communiter dicitur quod pro Simplici Fornicatione Clericus deponi non debet Quia pauci sine illo vitio inueniuntur It is commonly saide that for Simple Fornication no Prieste ought to be depriued For that fevve Priestes are founde vvithout that faulte Againe Panormitane saithe to like effecte Clericus Concubinarius in officijs vitandus non est nisi sit notorius A Prieste that keepeth a Concubine onlesse he be notorious maie not be refused in his Seruice Sundrie other sutche like Authorities your pooreste Proctoure coulde haue brought you Howe be it you saie S. Syluester in sutche cases enioineth tenne yeeres penance This was true in deede M. Hardinge But it was true in Olde forne yeeres aboute twelue hundred yeeres agoe Nowe Syluester is paste quite out of minde and his Lawe with him Your owne folke nowe can saie Nunc aliud tempus alij pro tempore mores Martinus Poenitentiarius saith Ecclesia multos huiusmodi Canones exufflauit quia onerosi sunt The Churche hathe blowen awaie many sutche Canons for that thei be too burthenous Looke better on your Bookes M. Hardinge Your owne Lawe saithe Fornicationis causa nemo hodiè deponendus est Quia corpora hodiè sunt fragiliora Noman nowe a daies ought to be depriued for Fornication and that bicause our bodies are frailer then they were woonte to be And therefore touchinge that cruel tenne yeeres Faste appointed by Syluesters Constitution the Glose there saithe thus Potest ieiunare per alium vel potest dare numum pro Ieiunio Hee maie Paste by somme other man or els He mai geeue a good Penny and so redeeme his whole tenne yeeres Faste But there is graciousely added a special prouiso In the behalfe of him that shal receiue this Penny Sed debet iste Donarius esse talis quòd non euincatur ab illo cui donatur Alias non contingeret liberatio But it muste be sutche a Penny that it be neuer euicted againe by Lawe from him that receiued it Otherwise he shoulde not be discharged of his penance In like manner saithe Pope Pelagius Defectus nostri temporis quibus corpora ipsa hominum defecerunt districtionis illius non patitur manere censuram The weakenesse of our time by meane whereof the very bodies of menne are decaied doothe not suffer the rigoure of that Lawe to continewe Otho Bonus in his Constitution Legantine saithe Remoueant ipsas
thinges of the world to confounde the stronge Goddes Holy Name be blessed that of so litle and so simple a despised Mustard séede hath now raised vp so greate a trée triumpheth the Gospel of Christe his Sonnne in euery place throughout the worlde VVhat meant Christe saie you to breake his promisse Nay what meante you M. Hardinge so shamefully to breake Christes Commaundemente and yet to charge him with his Promisse God is true in al his promisses and shal preuaile when he is so lewdely iudged There is no faulte in God or his Christe The faulte is in you that haue made of the House of God a Caue of Theeues Christe neuer made any sutche special Promisse vnto the Pope that what so euer it should please him to saie or doo hée shoulde neuer erre or doo amisse Yee presume ouer mutche of Goddes Promisses Nay though Antichriste should be Pope yet should Christes promisses be true stil It is true that God hath alwaies a Churche Inuisible and a number of Electe knowen onely to him selfe alone Neither is this our onely saieing S. Paule also saithe the same Firmum stat Fundamentum Dei habens hoc sigillum Nouit Dominus qui sint sui This Fundation standeth sounde and firme heuinge this Seale The Lorde knovveth vvhoo be his ovvne Elias thought al the Godly in Israel had benne slaine and not one leafte aliue But God saide vnto him I haue soued vnto me selfe seuen thousand menne that neuer bowed theire knee before Baal God knewe them but Elias knewe them not To the iudgemente of man they were inuisible Therefore S. Augustine saithe Secundum occultam Dei Praedestinationem plurimae sunt foris Oues plurimi Lupi intùs Nouit enim ac signatos habet qui nec eum nec se norunt Accordinge to Goddes Secrete Predestinatiō there be many Sheepe without the Church and many woolues within the Churche For he knoweth them and hath them marked that knowe neither them selues nor God neither Thus the number of Goddes Electe yea before the comminge of Christe in the time of darkenesse was euermore certaine yet afterwarde the knowledge of the Gospel by the Mouthes of the Apostles was abundantly carried abroade into the endes of al the worlde Bothe these partes M. Harding maie stande wel togeather and are nothinge contrarie to our Doctrine Be the number of the Faithful more or lesse yet the Truthe of God is one for euer The Apologie Cap. 5. Diuision 1. But now sithence our very enimies doo see and cannot denie but wee euer in al our woordes and writinges haue diligently put the people in minde of theire deutie to obeie theire Princes and Magistrates yea though they be wicked For this dooth very trial and experience sufficiently teache and al mennes eies who so euer and where so euer they be doo wel see and witnesse for vs it was a foule parte of them to charge vs with these thinges and seinge they could finde no newe and late faultes therefore to seeke to procure vs enuie onely with stale outworne lies We geeue our Lord God thankes whose onely cause this is there hathe yet at no time been any sutche example in al the Realmes Dominions Common Weales which haue receiued the Gospel For wee haue ouerthrowen no Kingdome Wee haue decaied no mans Power or right Wee haue disordered no Common Wealthe There continue in theire owne accustomed state and Aunciente Dignitie the Kinges of our countrie of England y◠Kinges of Denmarke the Kinges of Suecia the Dukes of Saxonie the Counties Palatine the Marquesses of Brandeburgh the Lantsgraues of Hessia the Common Wealthes of the Heluetians Rhetians y◠Free Citties as Argentine Basile Franckford Vlme Augusta Norenberg doe al I saie abide in the same Authoritie and estate wherein they haue benne heretofore or rather in a mutche better for that by meanes of the Gospel they haue theire people more obediente vnto them Lette them goe I praie you into those places where at this presente through Goddes goodnesse and Mercie the Gospel is taught Where is there more Maiestie Where is there lesse Arrogancie and Tyrannie Where is the Prince more honoured Where be the people lesse vnruly Where hathe there at any time either the Commō Wealth or the Churche benne in more quiet Perhaps ye wil saie from the firste beginning of this Doctrine the Common sorte euerywhere beganne to rage and to rise throughout Germanie Allow it were so yet Martine Luther the publisher and setter forewarde of this Doctrine didde write marueilous vehemently and sharpely againste them and reclaimed them home to peace and obedience M. Hardinge Your impudencie of lieinge hathe no measure nor ende But we wil saie litle here hauinge saide yenough already in reproufe of your falsehed VVe leaue you to the wide worlde who seeth and almoste feeleth your lies But I maruel not a litle that in this place specially where ye speake of the good order that your Gospel breedeth ye be not ashamed to make mention of Martin Luther Good God howe mutche could we if we were so disposed alleage out of his seditious and Heretical bookes by him writen against the Power of lawful magistrates At this time let one place suffise for al Luthers wordes be these Inter Christianos nullus neque potest neque debet esse magistratus sed c. Amonge Christen men none can nor ought to be a magistrate but eche one is to other equally subiecte After the Apostles saieinge Thinkinge al others better then your selues c. Againe Be ye humble al one to an other VVhereto Christe accordeth when he saithe VVhen thou arte called to the mariage feaste goe and sitte downe lowest of al. Amonge Christen men none is superiour saue one and onely Christe And what superioritie or magistrate can be there where al be equal and haue right power riches and honour al alike Furthermore none coueteth to be ouer other but al wil be vnder one another VVhere sutche men be though one woulde yet can he not make a magistrare to beare rule ouer others sithe that nature suffereth not to haue superiours where no man wil nor may be a superiour And where sutche kinde of men is there be they not Christen men after the true sorte of Christen men This farre Martin Luther He persuaded them to peace when there was scarsly any lefte that coulde beare a clubbe Firste he stirred vp his Disciple Thomas Munzer in Thuringia who was the rebelles preacher After that he excused him of seditious preachinge to the Duke of Saxonie Prince Electour trusting if Munzer were let alone the matter should wel goe forewarde The B. of Sarisburie To dissemble the reste of your Vntruthes and your immoderate and vnciuile bitternesse M. Hardinge procedinge from the vnquiet and vnsauery humoures of your harte where ye saie Doctor Luther admitteth no Ciuile Magistrate note the same so specially in your margine I marueile
a greate inconuenience That the Pope him selfe for as mutche as he Ministreth Sacramentes Teacheth Exhorteth and occupieth him selfe in Spiritual affaires leaste of al others is therefore the lowest and baseste of al his cleregie Nowe M. Hardinge I beseeche you consider the weight and drifte of your owne Reason The Popes Charge is Spiritual saie you Ergo the Emperoure is bounde to sv veare obedience to the Pope By what Reason maie this Reason be proued Uerily by the same good Reason ye maie saie Euery Priestes Charge is Spiritual Ergo the kinge is bounde to svveare obedience to euery Prieste Yet by sutche proper Reasons the Pope hath auanced him selfe aboue al the states and Princes of the Worlde But your Holy Father Innocentius leste he shoulde séeme to wante Scriptures for proufe hereof allegeth also the woordes of God spoken vnto the Prophete Hieremie Beholde I haue set thee ouer Nations and Kingedomes to the intente that thou maiste pulle vp and scatter and builde and plante Ergo saithe he the Emperoure is Subiecte vnto the Pope These proufes ye saye Our Defenders coulde not find Further ye saie in your sober māner VVhen wil you forsake the Schole of Lieing Truely if there be any sutch Schole M. Hardinge you maie claime of good right to be the Maister Wée are as far frō lieinge as you are from saieing the Truthe But what make these woordes of Hieremie for the Bishop of Rome Wil ye saie that the Prophete Hieremie was the Pope Or that the Kinge then was sworne to be subiecte and loial vnto him What Kinge or Prince did Hieremie subdue What People or Countrie euer did he ouerthrowe One of your owne Doctours saithe Hieremias nullum Regem deposuit Sed intelligitur positus supra Centes Regna quasi habens Authoritatem super ea in annuntiando praedicando Vera. Nō de destructione Regum Mundi sed de destructione Vitiorum plantatione Fidei morum Vt illud Pauli Dei aedificatio estis Dei Agricultura estis Hieremie deposed no Kinge But wee vnderstande that he was placed ouer Nations and Kingedomes as hauinge Authoritie ouer the same in openinge and preachinge of the Truthe He speaketh non of the ouerthrowinge of the Kingedomes of the World but of the ouerthrowinge of vices and of the planting of Faith and manners In this sense S. Paule saith to the Corinthians Ye are Goddes buildinge Ye are Goddes tillage The very Glose it selfe saithe Vt euellas Regnum Satanae vt plantes bona vt aedifices Ecclesiam I haue placed thee to roote vp not the Kingedomes of the worlde nor the states of Common Weales but the Kingedome of Satan to plante good thinges to builde vp the Churche His whole Commission was limited with these woordes Posui Verbum meum in Ore tuo I haue put my Woorde in thy Mouthe Sutche Authoritie had Elias ouer Kinge Achab. And therefore he saide vnto him It is not I that trouble Israel but thou and thy Fathers house Sutche Authoritie had Iohn the Baptiste ouer Kinge Herode and therefore he saide vnto him It is not lawful for thee to haue thy Brothers Wife If it be true that ye woulde seeme to saie that the Popes Superioritie standet onely in thinges Spiritual wherefore then doothe Pope Nicolas saie Christus Beato Petro Terreni simul Coelestis Imperij Iura commisit Christe bath geuen to Blessed Peter the Right as wel of the worldly as also of the Heauenly Empiere Wherefore then did Pope Adrian thus write vnto the Emperoure Fredericus Romae nostra Sedes est Imperatoris est A quis in Arduenna quae est Sylua Galliae Imperator quod habet totum habet à nobis Sicut Zacharias transtulit Imperium à Graecis ad Teutonicos ita nos possumus illud transferre ab Alemānis ad Graecos Ecce in potestare nostra est vt demus illud cui volumus proptereà constituti sumus à Deo super Gentes Regna vt destruamus euellamus aedificemus plantemus My Seate is in the Cittie of Rome The Emperours Seate is at Acon in Ardenne whiche is a Foreste in Fraunce VVhat so euer the Emperoure hath he hath it of vs. As Pope Zacharias translated the Empiere from Graecia into Germanie so maie wee againe translate the same from y◠Germaines to the Greekes Behold it is in our power to bestowe the Empiere vpon who wee liste Therefore are wee appointed by God ouer Nations and Kingdomes to pulle downe to roote vp to builde and to plante againe This Authoritie I trowe reacheth sommewhat further then onely to causes Spiritual One of your own Doctours saith Magis esset acceptum Deo quòd per Solum pōtificem Mundus in Omnibus regeretur It were more acceptable vnto God that the worlde in Al Maters both Spiritual and Temporal were gouerned onely by the Pope That Innocentius addeth of the Sonne and the Moone yée saye is not a Reason but a Similitude This thinge maie easily be graunted For in déede it is a Similitude vtterly voide of either VVitte or Reason But who taught the Pope so childishly to plaie with Similitudes thereby to auance him selfe and to abase the Empiere of the world Who tolde him that the Pope is the Sonne and the Emperoure the Moone Or that the Emperoure is so far inferioure to the Pope as y◠Moone is inferiour to the Sonne Isidorus that liued sixe hundred yéeres before Pope Innocentius saithe quite contrarie Per Solem intelligitur Regnum per Lunam intelligitur Sacerdotium By the Sonne vvee vnderstande the Kingdome and by the Moone vve vnderstande the Priesthoode Whereby he geueth vs to consider contrarie to the Iudgemente of your good Father Pope Innocentius that as the Moone is inferioure to the Sonne so is the Pope inferioure to the Emperoure M. Hardinge But when Constantine was Baptized he gaue place to S. Syluester then Bishop of Rome and to al other Successours of S. Peter O how that irketh your haries that so great an Emperour and the first that openly professed Christianitie shoulde by the same Holy Ghoste who called him to the Faithe of Christe be made to departe from the Cittie whiche ruled the worlde and to yelde his owne Palaice partly a Churche to our Sauiour Christe partely a dwellinge house for the Bishops of Rome Aske of Constantine why he submitted his necke to S. Syluester VVe haue cause to thinke that Constantius the heretike sonne of Constantine was not very glad of his Fathers dooinge And yet God suffered him not to retourne and dwel at Rome but to leaue that Cittie free to the Rulers of the Churche The B. of Sarisburie Constantine ye saie gaue ouer the Cittie of Rome and al the VVeaste parte of the Empiere to the Pope and to his Successours for euer And this thing erye saie yrketh our hartes ful soare Yea verily M. Hardinge it irketh vs mutche in
and al the fiue Citties of Romandiola togeather with the Emperours Lieutenantes Territorie called Exarchatus and gaue al the same to the Pope Pope Steuin findinge him selfe wel contented with these benefites and séeinge the weakenesse of the Greeke Emperoure procured that the Empiere should be translated from the Greekes vnto the Frenche hauinge vtterly forgotten the benefites that he had receiued of the Emperoure to the intente that the Greekes beinge vtterly oppressed and the Frenche litle caringe for these thinges he alone might rule in Italie at his pleasure Touchinge Pope Leo the thirde whose Prouidence Policie ye so mutche commende the true reporte of the Storie is this The saide Leo beinge by violence depriued of his Bishoprike in Rome fledde for aide to Charles the Frenche Kinge and by him was restoared In consideration of whiche benefite he proclaimed Charles the Emperoure of the VVeaste Sithence whiche time the Empiere of Christendome hath benne diuided and weakened the Pope enriched and the Saracenes and Turkes aboue al measure encreased M. Hardinge If the Pope Zacharias deposed Childerike for so I finde him more commonly named the Kinge of Fraunce onely vpon his owne pleasure or displeasure as ye saie and placed Pipine for him can ye tell that storie and not see what a strength of auctoritie is in that See whiche is able with a woorde to place and displace the mightiest Kinge in Europe VVith a woorde I saie For I am sure ye can shewe vs of no Armie that he sente to execute that his will Is that the power of a man trowe ye to appointe Kingedomes Can the Deuill him selfe at his pleasure set vp and depose Kinges No surely And muche lesse can any member of his doo the same Remember ye what Christe saide when the Iewes obiected that he did caste out Deuils in the name of the Prince of Deuils Beware ye Sinne not against the Holy Ghoste who confesse that the Pope hath pulled downe and set vp Kinges VVhiche thinge vndoubtedly he coulde not do profitably and peaceably but by the greate Power of God And yet did that line of Pipine and Charles the greate whiche the Pope did set vp florishe aboue any other stocke that ye can name sence the inclination of the Romaine Empire VVhiche in that transposed state of greate a Kingedome maketh no obscure argument of Heauenly approbation and Diuine prouidence Neither did the Pope Zacharias depose Childerike because he fansied him not as ye slaunder but onely consented to loose his Subiectes from bonde of othe made to him at the generall and moste earnest request and sute of all the Nobilitie and Communaltie of the whole Realme of Fraunce findinge him very vnprofitable and vnmeete for the Kingedome as one who beinge of no witte and therefore commonly named Stupidus as muche to saie a dolte was altogeather besides like a Sardanapalus geuen wholly to belly chere and to filthy loue of VVomen Therefore in your owne woordes ye confesse a Diuine power in the Pope as by whome Cod directeth the willes of faithfull Princes on the Earthe The more suche examples ye bringe the woorse ye make your cause I woulde â—yer you to ease me of the labour of prouinge suche a notable facte The B. of Sarisburie Pope Zacharias deposed Childericus as you calle him or as somme other cal him Chilpericus the Frenche Kinge Therefore ye saie wée muste néedes acknowlege a Diuine Power in the Pope seinge him hable by his woorde to place and displace the mightiest Kinge in Europe For can the Diuel saie you at his pleasure sette vp and depose Kinges Verily M. Harding Christe him selfe calleth the Diuel the Prince of this worlde therefore woe maie imagine he maie doo somewhat in yâ— worlde And yâ— Diuel if ye wiâ—beleeue his woorde when he had sette Christe on highe vpoÌ„ a Mounte shewed him al the Kingedomes of the worlde he saide vnto him Al these thinges wil I geue thee if thou wilte falle downe and woorship me This is that power that S. Iohn saithe shoulde be geuen to Antichriste Reges terrae vires potestatem suam tradent Bestiac c. vt consentiant dentque Regnum suum Bestiae donec compleantur Verba Dei The Kinges of the Barthe shal geue their strength and power vnto the Beaste c. that they maie agree togeather and geue theire Kingedome vnto the Beaste vntil the Woordes of God be fulfilled Againe he saithe Mulier ea quam vidisti est vrbs illa Magna quae habet Regnum super Reges terrae The Woman that thou sawest is that Greate Cittie that hath a Kingedome ouer the Kinges of the Worlde And againe he saith Data est illi Potestas in omneÌ„ Tribum Gentem adorabunt eam Bestiam omnes incolae terrae quorum nomina non sunt scripta in Libro Vitae Agni Power is geuen vnto that Beaste ouer euery Tribe and Language and Nation and al the dwellers of the Earth shal woorship the same Beaste whiche is Antichriste whose names be not written in the Lambes Booke of Life S. Augustine saithe Quia Antichristus ad tantum culmen inanis gloriae venturus creditur tanta ei licebit facere in omnes homines in Sanctos Dei vt nonnulli infirmi arbitrentur Deum res humanas negligere For that wee beleue that Antichriste shal comme vnto sutche a higth of vaine Glorie it shal be lawful for him to doo sutche thinges bothe towardes al menne Princes and others and also towardes the Sainctes of God that many weake menne shal thinke God hath foresaken the care of the worlde Againe he saithe Ita traditur de Antichristo quod omnes Reges superaturus sit solus Regnum obtenturus Thus it is written of Antichriste that he shal conquere al Kinges and obteine the Kingedome him selfe alone So saith S. Gregorie Antichristus veniens ipsas etiam summas huius Saeculi Potestates obtinebit Antichriste when he shal comme shal conquere the highest Estates and Powers of this worlde And al this shal comme to passe as Chrysostome saithe by the Dissolution of the Empiere whereof wee haue spoken before These be his woordes Donec Imprij illius timor fuerit nemo Antichristo statim subdetur Quando verò istud Imperium destructum fuerit vacantem Imperij Principatum inuadet tentabit ad se rapere hominum Dei Imperium As longe as the Empiere shal be had in awe noman shal streightwaie submitte him selfe to Antichriste But after that the Empiere shal be dissolued Antichriste shal inuade the state of the Empiere standinge voide and shal laboure to pulle vnto him selfe the Empiere bothe of Man and God This I trowe it is that the Pope proclaimeth him selfe the Heire Apparente of al Kingedomes This it is that Pope Nicolas saithe Christus Beato Petro Aeternae vitae Clauigero Terreni simul Coelestis imperij
greatter crueltie and shewe them selues miserable to behold But thou wilt saie we sticke not these nailes in theire heades Woulde God thou stickedst them in For then theire miserie were not so greeuous For he that with his owne hand killeth an other committeth a greate deale lesse faulte then he that forceth a man to kil him selfe So saie wée it was far greatter gréefe vnto that Noble Gentleman so vilely to dishonoure and abase him selfe then if he had benne driuen thereto through the force and violence of his enimie In this sorte was the Emperoure Henrie the fourthe wel contente willingly to waite vpon Pope Hildebrande at Canusium and three daies togeather to stande batcheaded and barefoote in the harde froste at his gate as one saith to be a gastinge stocke bothe to menne and Angels before he might haue licence to comme neare So was the Emperoure Frederichus Aenobarbus contented willingely to laie his necke vnder the Popes foote as wee shal declare more hereafter So was the poore Gentlevvoman contente to caste a halter aboute her owne Sonnes necke and so to presente him before Pope Hildebrand whom he had offended by sutche humble Subiection to craue his pardon In respecte wereof the Pope pardoned him his life but commaunded his foote to be striken of of whiche woounde the poore yonge Gentleman soone after died Ye saie It is a lie that Francise Dandalus so Noble a Gentleman was driuen to gnawe boanes I thinke it wel M. Hardinge and therefore we wil rather saie He laie there togeather vp the crummes that fel from his Lordes Table But vnder yâ— Popes table ye saie there were no Dogges And this ye saie is an other lie Notwithstanding this Negatiue were very harde for you to proue How be it hereat I wil not greatly striue And yet had it benne a more séemely sight in my iudgemente to sée a Dogge lieinge there then a man and specially a Noble Gentleman the Embassadoure of so Noble a Cittie To conclude this was the same Pope Clemens the fifthe that thus pronounced of him selfe and proclaimed the same vnto the whole worlde by a Lawe Nos superioritatem habemus ad Imperium Nos vacante Imperio Imperatori succedimus VVee haue the Soueraintie ouer the Empiere The Empiere beinge voide we are heires apparente to the Emperoure The Venetians had geuen aide to restoare one Friscus a bannished man vnto the Dukedome of Ferrara Therefore Pope Clemens interdited them and al that they had and further signified his pleasure vnto al the worlde that whither so euer they or any of them came it shoulde be lawful for any man not onely to take theire bodies and to selle them for slaues to spoile theire goodes but also to kille them whether it were by right or by wroÌ„g For so Sabellicus writeth Vt eos fas esset vnicuique iure iniuria interficere This was the cause of al this greate a doo And this highe indignation has neuer benne slaked had not so Noble a personage abased him selfe to be tied by the necke in a chaine and to créepe vnder the Popes Table vpon al foure like a Dogge Laste of al where it liketh you in the ende to refreashe your wittes with this Defenders thinne chéekes and blusshinge verily M. Hardinge he blussheth in deede and is mutche ashamed in your behalfe to sée your folies God geue you Grace that you maie blusshe at your misusing of Goddes people lesse ye haue that face that the Prophete saith is paste blusshing I trust this Defender shal neuer blusshe to saie either with S. Paule Non pudet me Euangelij Christi Est enim virtus Dei ad Salutem I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christe For it is the Power of God vnto Saluation Or with S. Hierome Non me pudet nescire quod nescio I am not ashamed in that thinge that I knowe not to graunte mine ignorance The Apologie Cap. 7. Diuision 5. Who set the Emperial Crowne vpon the Emeroure Henry the siâ—thes heade not with his hande but with his foote and with the same foote againe caste the same Crowne of saieinge withal Hee had Povver to make Emperours and to vnmake them againe at his pleasure â–ª M. Hardinge VVe denie that Celestinus whom you note in your bokes margent or any other Pope did this It is a varne fable deuised rather of malice then witte Ye should haue done wel to shew vs with which fooâ—e the Pope did set on the Crowne vpon Henrâ—es heade the rigit or the lefte standinge sittinge leninge or lieinge barefooted and vsinge the healpe of his greate toe â–ª or shodde whether he had some iymme iamme made for him to take it vp holde it and put it on handsomly or conueied it on by a vice or howe it was donne The B. of Sarisburie What nimblenesse or cunninge the Pope hath in his féete more then other menne I haue not hearde What other sleightes he hath nowe or hath had in times paste to woorke sutche feates it behoueth his Magister Ceremoniarum to consider The storie is recorded by Ranulphus Rogerus Cestrensis and Rogerus Houedenus that liued at the same time The Apologie Cap. 7. Diuision 6. Who put in armes Henrie the Sonne againste the Emperoure his Father Henrie the Fourthe and wrought so that the Father was taken prisoner of his owne Sonne and beinge shorne and shamefully handeled was thruste into a Monasterie where with hunger and sorowe he pined awaie to deathe M. Hardinge It was not the Pope that armed Henry the seconde againste Henry the fourthe who by thâ—â—â— compte of some is Henry the thirde â—â—ories declare other causes of theire fallinge out and the more parte of the writers impute it to the iudgemente of God for punishement of his greate wickednes After that he was ouercome with al his power by the Saxons in seuentin daies he durste not to appeare abroade In the meane time his sonne tooke vpon him foorthwith the administration of the Empiere went into Italie with an armie â–ª would not surrender the state which he liked wel his father beinge therewith offended he tooke prisoner without any motion of the Pope with whom he was also at variance and committed him to straight custody Concerninge Gregorie the seuenth Pope who before was called Hildebrandus whom that Emperoure with endles malice persecuted because he would not ratifie his Simoniacal makinge of Bishops and geuing of Ecclesiastical benefices and defended the Church against his wicked attemptes biside sundrie writers of Histories in that time as Lambertus Schafnaburgensis Leo HostieÌ„sis and afterwarde Otho Frisingensis who so mutche commend him for sundrie excellent vertues no man hath so largely and so diligently set foorthe his worthines as Onuphrâ—us Panuinius who hath written of him fiue Bookes The B. of Sarisburie Wée maie easily beléeue you M. Hardinge that the Pope armed not Henrie the Seconde as you saie
the Councel greater then yâ— Pope And your owne Panormitane saithe as it is alleged before Papa tenetur confiteri in illo actu Sacerdos est Maior illo The Pope is bound to make his Confession and in so dooinge the Prieste is aboue the Pope Againe he saithe Papa non potest cogere Sacerdotem vt reuelet CoÌ„fessionem quia in illo actu Sacerdos est Maior quà m Papa Children knowe that Faithe and Confession are Spiritual Causes and not Temporal Ye sée therefore M. Hardinge by the Iudgemente of your owne Doctoures that the Pope maie haue a Superioure euen in Spiritual causes Nowe let vs weighe the greate force of your Reason Thus you saie The Pope sitteth in Peters Chaire Ergo in Spiritual Causes he can haue no Superioure Who taught you thus to piece your Arguments What Childe what Sophister woulde so reason Who euer gaue sutche Power and Vertue to Peters Chaire In Temporal maters ye saie it maie be that in one age the Pope hath acknowledged the Emperoure as Lorde of that Prouince where he liued Graceously considered It was the Popes Courtesie Humilitie no doubte but not his duetie Now be it Aaron the Highe Bishop in Israel was contented to submit him selfe to Moses and of duetie to calle him Lorde Tertullian saith thus Colimus Imperatorem vt hominem à Deo secundum Solo Deo Minorem Sic enim Imperator Omnibus Maior est dum Solo vero Deo Minor est Wee honoure the Emperours Maiestie as a man nexte vnto God For so is the Emperoure greater then Al menne while he is leasse then onely the True God Origen saithe Petrus Iohannes nihil habebant quod Caesari redderent Dixit enim Petrus Aurum Argenium non habeo Qui hoc non habet nec Caesari habet quod reddat nec vnde Sublimioribus Potestatibus subiaceat Qui verò habet PecuniaÌ„ aut Possessiones aut aliquid in hoc saeculo audiat Omnis anima Potestatibus Sublimioribus subiaceat Peter and Iohn had nothing to geue vnto the Emperoure For Peter saide Golde and Siluer I haue none whiche who so hath not hath nothing to geeue to Caesar not wherein he shoulde be subiecte to the Higher Powers But who so euer hath either Monie or Landes or any thinge in this worlde let him heare what S. Paule saith Let euery soule submit it selfe to the Higher Powers And for proufe of the practise hereof Pope Leo thus submitteth him selfe humbly vnto Levves the Emperoure Nos si incomperenter aliquid egimus in Subditis iustae Legis tramitem non conseruauimus vestro admissorum nostroruÌ„ cuncta volumus emendare iudicio If wee haue donne any thinge disorderly and ouer our Subiectes haue not keapte the dewe trade and course of Lawe by your Maiesties Iudgemente vve vvil redresse al our faultes So likewise long before Pope Leo Pope Gregorie wrote vnto the Emperoure Mauritius Ecce per me Seruum vltimum suum vestrum respondebit Christus Sacerdotes meos manui tuae commisi c. Ego quidem vestrae iussioni subiectus Legem vestraÌ„ per diuersas terrarum partes traÌ„smitti feci Behold thus wil Christe answeare you by me beinge both his and your most humble Seruante I haue committed my Priestes vnto thy hand As for my parte I being subiecte vnto youre Maiesties Commaundemente haue caused your Order to be proclaimed through diuers partes of the worlde Againe he saithe Christus dominari Imperatorem non solùm Militibus sed etiam Sacerdotibus concessit Christe hath geuen power vnto the Emperoure to beare rule not onely ouer souldiers but also ouer Priestes Againe he saithe Et Imperatori obedientiam praebui pro Deo quod sensi minimè tacni I haue shewed my duetie towardes my Lorde the Emperoure and touchinge God I haue not conceled what I thought And this is it that S. Paule saithe â—et euery soule be subiecte to the Higher Powers Vpon whiche woordes S. Chrysostome saithe Etiamsi sis Apostolus etiamsi Euangelista etiamsi Propheta fiue quisquis taÌ„dem fueris Neque enim Pietatem subuertit ista Subiectio Thoughe thou be an Apostle though thou be an Euangelist though thou be a Prophete or what one so euer els thou be yet be thou subiecte to the Heigher Powers For this Subiection is no hinderance to Godlinesse But afterwarde the Popes beganne to looke alofte bothe to saie them selues also to cause others theire parasites to saie Romanus pontifex supra Reges in Temporalibus The Bishop of Rome is aboue Kinges euen in thinges Temporal Againe Papa totius orbis obtinet potestatem The Pope hath the power of al the worlde Againe Solus Papa est verus Dominus Temporalium Onely the Pope is the very true Lorde of Temporal thinges And againe Omnis potestes secularis immediatè data est Papae Al manner Temporal Povver is geuen immediately to the Pope Ye saie Pope Gregorie might cal the Emperoure Mauritius his Lorde not of deutie but either of Custome or of Courtesie Yet saie you further our holy Father Pope Pius the Fourth shal not now be bound to do the like Here I beseech you M. Hardinge What strange kinde of Spiritual Povver hath Pope Pius nowe gâ—tteÌ„ that was not before in Pope Gregorie what Learninge what Vertue what Woorthinesse what Holynesse What good reason caÌ„ ye allege wherefore Christe and his Apostles and al other Holy Fathers and Martyrs shoulde be Subiectâ— to the Prince and onely your late Popes and Cardinales shoulde stande so frèe Ye saie This Custome hath longe sithence benne discontinewed And in one age the Pope maie acknowledge the Emperour as the Lorde of the Land where he dwelleth and in an other age he maie be Lorde thereof him selfe That is to saie In one age the Pope maie be subiecte to the Emperoure and in an other age the Emperoure maie be subiecte to the Pope This is your whole and onely reason Thus wée see your obedience towardes your Prince goeth not by Goddes VVoorde but onely by Ages Therefore wée maie saie to you as S. Hilarie sommetime saide to yâ— Arian Heretiques Fides temporum est non Euangeliorum Your Faithe passeth by Ages and not by Gospels And yet it is written Veritas Domini manet in Aeternum The Truth of our Lorde endureth not for one age or other but for Euer It were a highe pointe of Learning for an Astronomer skilfully to Prognosticate betwéene yâ— Emperour and the Pope whether of them shoulde be Dominus Anni How be it here maie I wel and iustly answeare you with these woordes of S. Bernarde Omnis anima potestatibus sublimioribus subdita sit Si omnis vestra Quis vos excepit ab vniuersitate Si quis tentat Excipere conatur Decipere Noli illorum acquiescere consilijs qui cùm sint Christiani Christi tamen vel sequi facta vel
ech man one Al are committed to thee the one whole flocke to one Neither arte thou onely the Pastour of al the Sheepe but also the onely Pastour of al the Pastours VVherefore accordinge to thine owne Canons other are called into parte of care thou into falnes of power The Auctoritie of others is restrained to certaine prescripte boundes thine is extended euen vpon those who haue receiued power ouer others Canst not thou if there be cause why close vp heauen gates againste a Bishop depriue him of his Bishoprike and geue him vp to the Deuil Nowe heare an other reason whiche confirmeth that prerogatiue to thee as wel as the other The Disciples rowed and our Lorde appeared vnto them on the shore and that in his Body nowe againe restored vnto life whiche was more confortable vnto them Peter knowing that it was our Lorde leapte into the sea and so came vnto him and the reste came by bote VVhat meaneth this Forsooth it was a signe of the singulare Popedome of Peter by whiche he tooke into his Gouernemente not one onely one Shippe as the other did eche man his owne but the whole worlde The B. of Sarisburie Apostates Renegates Lecherous Lurdaines Detestable Diuelishe rable O M. Hardinge the Vessel that helde this liquoure was not cleane Wee condemne not your Cleregie either for life or for Learning but onely reporte therein the iudgemente of others youre special frendes And therefore if any thinge mislike you herein the faulte is in them not in vs. S. Bernarde saith Your Bishoppes in his time were not Doctoures but Deceiuers Not Feeders but Defrauders Not Prelates but Pilates Iudge you nowe in what case the Churche of God stoode then when the Bishoppes that were the Guides and Leaders of the people might be compared to Pilate that gaue Sentēce in iudgement against Christe Iohannes Vitalis a Cardinal of Rome and therefore in no wise of your parte to be refused saithe thus De Sacerdotibus modernis dicit Hieremias Stupor mirabilia facta sunt in terra Prophetae praedicabant mendacium Sacerdotes applaudebant manibus Et populus meus dilexit talia Concerninge the Priestes that nowe be Hieremie saith Honoure and woonders are wrought vpon the Earth The Prophetes haue preached Lies the Priestes haue clapte theire handes at it for ioie and liked it wel and my people hath loued sutche thinges Albertus Magnus saith Illi qui modo ' praesunt in Ecclesijs plurimùm sunt Fures Latrones plùs Exactores quà m Pastores plùs Spoliatores quà m Tutores plùs Mactatores quà m Custodes plùs Peruersores quà m Doctores plùs Seductores quà m Ductores Isti sunt Nuntij Antichristi Subuersores Ouiū Christi They that nowe gouerne the Churche for the most parte be Theeues and Murtherers more Catches then Feeders more Spoilers then Defenders more Killers then Keepers more Deceiuers then Doctoures more Beguilers then Cuiders These be the vauntcurrers of Antichriste the Subuerters of the Sheepe of Christe VVilliam Holcote saithe Sacerdotes moderni sunt similes Sacerdotibus Baal sunt Angeli Apostatici sunt similes Sacerdotibus Dagon sunt Sacerdotes Priapi sunt Angeli Abyssi The Priestes of this time are like the Priestes of Baal Thei are the Renegate Angels They are like the Priestes of Dagon They are the Priestes of Priapus They are the Angels of Helle. S. Bernarde saithe Dicimini Pastores cùm sitis Raptores Fratres Iesus hodiè elegit sibi multos Diabolos Episcopos Non sunt Pastores sed Traditores Ye are called Bishoppes but ye are Rauenners O my Brethren Iesus at this time hath chosen vnto him many Diuels to be Bishoppes thei are not Feeders thei are Traitours Iohannes Sarisburiensis saide boldely vnto Pope Adrian the fourth Ideò mea opinione Papae frequentiùs moriūtur ne totam corrumpant Ecclesiam Therefore in my iudgemente the Popes die the oftener leste if they should continew longe they shoulde infecte the whole Churche Againe S. Bernarde saithe Pudeat Successores Apostolorum Lucem non esse Mundi sed Modij Mundi autem tenebras Dicamus eis Vos estis tenebrae Mundi Let it shame the Successours of the Apostles not to be the Lighte of the Worlde but the Light of the Busshel and rather the Darkenesse of the VVorlde Let vs therefore saie vnto them yee are the Darkenesse of the VVorlde Through these spectacles wée maie beholde the state of the Churche of Rome For Christe saithe If the Lighte it selfe that is in thee be made Darkenesse how greate then wil the Darkenesse it selfe be How can the Cittie be keapte in safetie if the Watcheman be blinde and sée nothinge If the Blinde leade the Blinde bothe falle into the pitte Christe saithe Dormientibus illis creuerunt Zizania While the Husbandemenne were asleepe then the Cokle and Darnel grewe S. Hilarie saithe Ecclesiae intra quas Verbum non vigilat naufragae sunt The Churches wherein Goddes VVoorde watcheth not suffer shipwracke and are drowned But Bernarde ye saie stoutely maineteineth the Popes Supremacie I graunte you Neither did wée euer allege him to proue the contrarie He defendeth also other greate and grosse errours as liuinge in a time of déepest Darkenesse But the Reason he vseth seeme very weake specially to winne so great a mater For thus he saithe Peter leapte into the vvater and came to Christe The reste of the Disciples came by bote Ergo The Pope hath the Iurisdiction of al the vvorlde Sutche other prety Reasons made in the Popes behalfe ye maie finde many Peter Crab that lately compiled the Bookes of Councelles reasoneth thus Peter paide the tribute monie for Christe and him selfe Christe saide vnto Peter Folowe thou me Againe he saide Lanche foorthe into the deepe Againe Peter arte thou asleepe Couldest thou not watche with me one houre And againe From hencefoorthe thy name shal be Peter And Peter drewe his Swerde and cutte of Malchus Eare Ergo saithe he The Pope hath Vniuersal Authoritie ouer the whole Churche of God Notwithstandinge how so euer these Reasons holde Bernarde saithe The Popes are the Heades of the Churche True it is But againe the same Bernard saith The same Heades are the Ministers of Antichriste Deceiuers Defrauders Rauenners Traitours the Darkenesse of the Worlde VVoulfes Pilates and Diuels And this was sufficient for our pourpose S. Gregorie saithe Considerate quid de Gregibus agatur quando Lupi sunt Pastores When the VVoulfe is becomme the Sheephearde consider then what maie becomme of the Flocke As for that S. Bernarde saithe The Pope is Abel The Pope is Noë The Pope is Abraham The Pope is Melchisedek The Pope is Aaron The Pope is Moses The Pope is Samuel The Pope is Peter The Pope is Christe I doubte not but your owne Conscience wil answeare it is too mutche Yet is that a greate deale more likely that others haue saide as I haue alleged before The
Popes breaste Thus maie wee set aparte Scriptures Doctoures Councelles and what so euer is biside The Popes breaste maie serue for al. The Apologie Cap. 21. Diuision 8. Worthily ought that mater seeme suspicious whiche fleeth trial and is afraide of the light For he that dooth euil as Christe saith seketh darkenesse and hateth the light A cōscience that knovveth it selfe cleere commeth vvillingly into open shevve that the vvoorkes vvhiche proceede of God maie be seene Neither bee they so very blinde but they see this wel yenough that theire Kingdome streightwaie is at a pointe if the Scriptures once haue the vpper hande and that like as menne saie the Idolles of Diuelles in times paste of whome menne in doubtful maters were then woonte to receiue answeares were suddainly striken doumbe at the sight of Christe when he was borne and came into the worlde euen so they see that nowe al their suttle practises wil soone fal downe hedlonge euen vpon the sight of the Gospel For Antichriste is not ouerthrowen but with the brightnesse of Christes comming The Apologie Cap. 22. Diuision 1. As for vs wee renne not for succour to the Fire as these mennes guise is but wee renne to the Scriptures neither doo wee reason with the Swerde but with the VVorde of God and therewith as saithe Tertullian doo vvee feede our Faithe by it doo vvee stirre vp oure hope and strengthen our Confidence M. Hardinge Ye flie not to the Fire as wee doo saie ye but vnto the Scriptures Neither doo ye reason with vs with the sworde but with the VVoorde of God Ah good woorde of God thou seruest to many purposes And is it in deede the woorde of God Sirs that keepeth so many reuerende Fathers in prison these many yeeres It is the woorde of God that hath depriued so many menne some of their liuinges some of theire countries whose life ye can not blame Is it the woorde of God that by crueltie of imprisonmente of late yeeres gaue moste certaine occasion of death to those holy learned and worshipful menne who for their singular vertue beinge wel knowen neede not here to be named Is it the woorde of God that made so mutche adoo in youre late parlament for establishinge of youre bloudy lawe whereby ye woulde haue power to put menne to death for the Faithe of Christendome The Turkes and Saracenes haue alwaies suffered them to liue in their dominions but our Gospellers by their woorde of God are taught to kil them Blessed be God who hath geuen to our noble and moste clement Queene Elizabeth a better spirite to vnderstande his woorde in this point then these Gospellers haue yet attained vnto If any of you doo saie that the newe Superintendentes doo not keepe the olde Bishoppes and leanred Clergie in prison but the Lawe of the Realme I answere firste that the Lawe is a crabbe of your owne stocke next that neither the Bishoppes before time burnt Heretiques but the Lawe of the Realme the lawe of the Prince the lawe of al Christendome Neither was the same made by Papistes of late yeres as ye woulde youre deceiued disciples to beleue but of olde time thought necessarie by Princes to be enacted for the better maintenance of quiet in their dominions The B. of Sarisburie It is no newe practise ye saie to kille Heretiques I graunte you Neither is it a newe practise to condemne godly menne by the name of Heretiques You re Fathers sommetime cried out againste Christe the Sonne of God Wee haue a Lawe and by the Lawe he ought to die And Christe him selfe saide sommetime to Hierusalem the Cittie of bloude O Hierusalem Hierusalem that killest the Prophetes and stoanest them to death that he sent vnto thee But S. Augustine saithe Nullis bonis in Catholica hoc placet si vsque ad Mortem in quenquam licet Haereticum saeuiatur It seemeth good vnto no good man in the Catholique Churche that crueltie vnto death be shewed vnto any man no though he be an Heretique Notwithstanding it agreeth wel with youre Religion M. Hardinge though your mouthes now be mousled yet to rampe and gape stil after bloude Fulfil ye the measure of youre Fathers Let it not greeue you to heare what Salomon saithe Viscera impiorum crudelia The very bowelles of the wicked are ful of crueltie When youre Fables and folies be espied then ye flee to Swerde and Fire Whiche beeinge once wreasted from you youre whole Religion muste needes comme to grounde S. Hierome saithe of other youre peeres Pugnant Epicherematis ex carnificum officinis They fighte with Argumentes taken from the Bouchers shoppes Ye haue wreakte youre angre longe yenough vpon innocente bloude Beginne once to knowe the hande of God It is harde for you to kike stil against the pricke Wee maie truely saie vnto you with S. Cyprian Sacerdos Dei Euangelium tenens Christi Praecepta custodiens Occidi potest Vinci non potest The Prieste of God holding the Gospel and keeping the Commoundementes of Christe maie wel be killed But conquered he cannot be Wee maie saie with Tertullian Crudelitas vestra Gloria nostra est Plures efficimur quoties metimur à vobis Youre Crueltie is oure Glorie When ye comme to recken vs ye finde vs moe and moe Truethe aboue al thinges vvil preuaile There is no Counsel againste the Lorde As for oure parts wee were neuer yet guilty to one droppe of youre bloude Wee seeke no aide at Fire or Swerde Wee wil rather saie with S. Hierome Vtiuam filios Haereucorum omnium qui decepti sunt interficiamus Sagittis Spiritualibus id est Testimonijs Scripturarum Woulde God wee maie rather kille the Children of Heretiques and of al them that be deceiued with Spiritual Arrowes that is to saie with the Testimonies of the Scriptures And with S. Augustine O fi occidas eos de gladio bis acuto non sint Hostes tui Sic enim amo eos occidi sibi vt vitrani tibi Woulde God thou wouldest kille them O Lorde with the twoo edged sworde that is with thy Holy Woorde That they maie no lenger be thine Enimies For so I wisshe them to bee killed vnto them selues that they maie liue vnto thee And againe Vindicet nos Deus de vobis vt ipsum errorem vestrum in vobis occidat nobiscum de Veritate gaudeatis God so reuenge oute cause againste you that he maie kille youre erroure in you that ye maie reioice togeather with vs of the Truethe The Apologie Cap. 22. Diuision 2. For we knowe that the Gospel of Iesus Christe is the power of God vnto Saluation and that therein consisteth Eternal Life And as Paule warneth vs we doo not heare no not an Angel of God though he came from Heauen if he goe aboute to pul vs from any parte of this Doctrine M. Hardinge Boaste no more of the Gospel VVe I meane the catholique Churche had it
Authoritie of the Scriptures be remoued that eche man maie be leadde by his owne fantasie what he liste either to allowe in the Holy Scriptures or to disallowe that is to saie that he submitte not him selfe touchinge his Faithe to the Authoritie of the Scriptures but that he make the Scriptures subiecte vnto him Not that he wil allowe any thing bicause it is written in that high Authoritie of the Scriptures but that he wil thinke it wel written bicause he alloweth it By meane hereof it commeth to passe that S. Hilarie writeth Qui quae scripta sunt negas quid superest nisi vt quae non scripta sunt probes For as muche as thou deniest the thinges that be written what remaineth there but that thou muste allowe the thinges that be not written Concerninge the Authoritie and Credite of Councelles wee shal haue cause to saie more hereafter But where ye require but a man of common sense to sitte as Iudge in this cause it appeareth that either ye remember not or els ye weighe not that ye immediately said before For in this selfe same Chapter ye saie The people maie not iudge of theire Bishoppes and that as ye tel vs by Christes own Doctrine For the Scholar is not aboue his Maister Yet now suddainely as hauinge foregotten youre owne woordes ye cal foorthe the Scholare yea and as it maie be thought one of the meanest of al youre Schole as a man onely endewed with common sense to sitte in Iudgement ouer his Maister Notwithstandinge God is no accepter of personnes Goddes Holy Sprite is not bounde to Councelles or Companies but breatheth freely where it listeth And therefore as youre owne Doctour Panormitane saithe in Cases of Religion the Iudgement of one Simple plaine man ought sommetimes to bee receiued before the Iudgemente of the Pope Here endeth the Fourth Parte The Fifthe Parte The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 1. BVt here I looke they wil saie though they haue not the Scriptures yet it maie chaunce they haue the Auncient Doctours and the Holy Fathers with them For this is a high bragge they haue euer made howe that al Antiquitie a Continual Consent of al ages dooth make on their side and that al our cases be but Newe and yester daies woorke and vntil these fewe late yeeres were neuer hearde of Questionlesse there can nothing be more spitefully spoken against the Religion of God then to accuse it of Noueltie as a mater lately founde out For as there can be no chaunge in God him selfe so ought there to be no chaunge in his Religion Yet neuerthelesse we wote not by what meanes but we haue euer seene it come so to passe from the firste beginninge that as often as God did geeue but somme light did open his Truthe vnto menne though the Truthe were not onely of greatest Antiquitie but also frō Euerlasting yet of wicked menne of the Aduersaries it was called Newfangled and of late diuised That vngraceous and bloudthirsty Haman when he sought to procure the kinge Assuerus displeasure against the Ievves this was his accusation to him Thou hast here saithe he a kinde of people that vseth certaine nevve Lavves of their ovvne but stifnecked and rebellious againste al thy Lavves When Paule also began firste to preache and expounde the Gospel at Athenes he was called a tidinges bringer of Nevve Goddes as mutche to saie as of a Nevve Religion For saide the Athenians maie wee not knowe of thee what Nevve Doctrine this is Celsus likewise when he of set pourpose wrote againste Christe to the ende he might more scornefully scoffe out the Gospel by the name of Noueltie VVhat saithe he hath God after so many ages novve at laste and so late bethought him selfe Eusebius also writeth that the Christian Religion from the beginning for very spite was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to saie Nevve and Strange After like sorte these menne condemne al our maters as Strange and Nevve but they wil haue their owne whatsoeuer they are to be praised as thinges of longe continuance M. Hardinge They had saide somme what if they had proued that the doctrine of Christe had benne called nowe by them who were the professours and folowers of it But nowe reportinge that the Gentils who knewe not God as A man as the Athenians as Celsus the Ethnike and suche the like called the right and true Religion of God newe they saie nothing to any purpose But let them shewe that before the comminge of Christe any suche Religion was allowed that was newe Or that sithens Christes incarnation amonge Christian menne what so euer Religion was not shunned and reiected as heretical whiche was newe Here are they domme And yet for shewe of learning in a matter not necessarie they bringe foorth their store and declare that the doctrine and Religion of truthe was newe to them whiche knewe not God nor Christe the sonne of God whiche no man denieth Thus al menne of any iudgement maie see how fondly they reason VVe tel them that al nevve doctrine nowe in the Churche of Christe is naught and they proue that infidels haue in the time of Moses lawe and at the first preachinge of the Gospel impugned Goddes euerlastinge truthe with the odious terme and reproche of newnes Newe doctrine was good to vs at our firste conuersion from infidelitie But since that we receiued the true faithe from S. Gregorie the Bishop of Rome who conuerted the Realme of Englande to the faithe by S Augustine his legate and others sent for that godly purpose worthely we shunne and abhorre al new Gospels new faithes new doctrines new religions The B. of Sarisburie The Truthe of God neither is furthered by the face of Antiquitie nor hindered by the opinion of Noueltie For oftentimes the thinge that in deede is Nevve is commended as Olde and the thinge that in dede is Olde is condemned as Nevve If Nevvnesse in Religion in al respectes and euery waie were il Christe would not haue resembled his Doctrine to Nevve VVine nor woulde he haue saide to his Disciples I geue you a Nevve Commaundemente Neither woulde he haue called the Cuppe of Thankesgeuinge The Nevve Testamente in his Bloude Arnobius saithe Religionis Authoritas non est tempore aestimanda sed numine nec quo die sed quid colere coeperis intueri conuenit Quod Verum est Serum non est The Authoritie of Religion muste be weighed by God and not by time It behoueth vs to consider not vpon what daie but what thinge wee beganne to worship The thinge that is true is neuer too late S. Augustine saithe Quod Anterius est inquiunt Ethnici falsum esse non potest Quasi Antiquitas Vetus Consuetudo praeiudicet Veritati The Heathens saie The Religion that was firste can not be false As though Antiquitie and Olde Custome coulde preuaile againste the Truethe Againe he saithe Nec dici
not like to satisfie your longinge And yet they haue taken order for the amendemente of so many as they knowe Neither is any of the same about any point of our faithe but about thinges of lesse weight Your exaggeration of the termes so many so manifest so often confessed by them and so euident reporteth in one sentence your so many so manifest so often confuted by vs and so euident lies VVhen you folowe your hote humour and aske from what kinde of Idolatrie the Fathers of the Tridentine Councel haue reclaimed the people you go to farre VVhat so euer blasphemie ye vtter in bookes and Sermons against the adoration of the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter we knowe no kinde of Idolatrie vsed in the Churche Neither is any Idolatrie committed by vs in worshippinge of Sainctes in praieinge to them nor in the reuerence we exhibite to their Images as ye beare the people in hande As I can not wâ—l take a heare from your lieing bearde so wishe I that I could plucke malice from youre blasphemous harte The B. of Sarisburie Whether the Learned menne of oure side were shut te out from the right and libertie of youre Councel or no it maie soone appeare partly by that is already saide partly by that shal be saide hereafter Verily the Pope for his Premunire wil not suffer any Bishop to geeue voice in Councel on lesse he haue him firste solemnely sworne to the See of Rome and therefore they be al called his Creatures So Cicero saithe Verres when he hadde bribed and spoiled the whole Ilelande of Sicilia thought it not good to suffer his name or any parte of his dooinges to comme in hazarde but onely before a Iudge or Arbiter of his owne Therefore the Frenche Kinges Embassadoure as it is saide before protested thus openly euen in your saide Councel Minùs legitima minusque libera dicuntur fuisse illa Concilia qui aderant ad voluntatem alterius semper loquebantur These Councelles are coumpted neither so free nor so laweful as they ought to bee they that were there spake euermore to please an other by whiche Other he meante the the Pope And for that cause the Emperoures Maiestie by his Embassadoure Hurtadus Mendoza solemnely protested againste the assemblie of the same Councel His woordes he these Ego Iacobus Hurtadus Mendoza uomine Pientissimi Inuictissimi Domini mei Caroli Caesaris Romani Imperatoris ex illius speciali mandato ac nomine totius Sacri Romani Imperij aliorumque Regnorum ac Dominiorum suorum protestor Nullam posse esse Authoritatem assetorum legatorum Sanctitatis Vestrae corum EpiscoporuÌ„ qui sunt Bononiae Sanctitati vestrae maiori ex parte obnoxiorum atque ab illius nutu omninò pendentium vt in Religionis morum Reformationis causa c. legem praescribant I lamas Hurtado Mendoza in the name of the most godly and most mighty Prince my Lord Charles the Romaine Emperour by his special CoÌ„mission and in the name of yâ— vvhole Romaine Empiere and al others his Realmes and Dominions doo proteste that the Authoritie of the pretensed Legates of youre holinesse and of sutche other Bishoppes as be nowe at Bononia vnto whiche towne the Councel of Trident was then adiourned for the moste parte bounde vnto youre Holinesse and wholy hanginge vpon youre becke is of no force namely to make Lawes in cause of ReformatioÌ„ of Religion and maners And that it maie appeare in what obedience seruile subiection al Bishoppes be vnto the Pope Aeneas Syluius otherwise called Pope Pius the Seconde saith thus Quo'd si Episcopus Papae contradicat etiam vera loquendo nihilominus peccat contra Iufiorandum Papae praestitum If a Bishop speake against the Pope yea although he speake the truthe yet neuerthelesse he sinneth againste the Othe that he hath made vnto the Pope Therefore where as at the late Conference at Norenberg it was required by the Princes and States of Germanie that al Bishoppes comminge to the Councel might bothe be discharged from theire Othe made to the Pope and also sworne to speake and to promote the Truthe the Popes Legate there made answeare in greate disdeigne that it might not so bee For that so the Popes handes should be bounde Hereby M. Hardinge a blinde man maie easily see the fourme and Freedome of youre Councelles If the Bishoppes be Free to saie the Truthe then is the Pope leafte in Bondage Whether youre Fathers in the Chapter at Tridente sate there sixe whole Moonethes debatinge and reasoning about the Trinitie or no of certaine knowledge I cannot telle But certainely what thinge els they did either in al that time or longe after you can hardely shewe vs. Therefore if they did not this for as mutche as nothinge els appeareth of theire dooinges wee must imagine thei sate mute in a Muminerie and saide nothinge Notwithstandinge Cassander saithe thei bestowed one whole Sommer in greate and holy Disputations aboute meaner maters then the Trinitie I meane onely about the Communion of the Cuppe Martinus Kemnitius saithe Thei helde Disputations there and kepte greate sturre Seuen whole Moonethes togeather about the Iustification of Faith Workes yet in the end leaft it worse then thei founde it We saie You your selues haue espied mani disorders in your church of Rome as it is plain bi your ovvn Confessions To recken theÌ„ al in particular it were too long I haue partely touched theÌ„ heretofore Albertus Pigghius confesseth there be Abuses in your Masse The Frenche Kings Embassadour at youre laie Tridentine Chapter saithe thus Vel Praefectorum Ecclesiae incuria vel etiam ne quid grauius dicam praepostera Pietate irrepsisse in Ecclesiam res nonnullas Antiquatione Abrogatione vel Moderatione dignas fateamur necesse est Wee must needes confesse that either by the negligence of the Bishoppes or by some disordered opinion of Holinesse for I wil saie no more he meaneth falsehed and Mockerie and Wiltal Auarice certaine thinges are brought into the Churche woorthy either to be put awaie and abolished or at leaste to be qualified Picus Mirandula besoughte Pope Leo. 10. to abate the vaine Multitude of youre Ceremonies to refourme youre Praiers and to cut of youre Fables One of youre owne Louanian Felovves saithe Euen nowe a daies many good menne mislike so many Appeales to Rome Somme others finde faulte with your Pardonnes Somme with youre Simonie some with youre Stevves somme with youre licenceous keepinge and mainteininge of Concubines I wil not enlarge the mater further These and other like thinges are confessed by youre selues Other greater maters I wil not touche For in cases of Faith for your credites sake ye maie graunte no manner Erroure For otherwise it might be thought yee haue neither the Faith nor the Life of Christian menne Nowe therefore tel vs M. Hardinge what one Abuse of al the Abuses in your Masse what one
of the Councel hathe benne printed almoste in al partes of Christendome Looke who liste in euery Booke he shal finde three seueral solemne Safeconductes graunted by the Councel and confirmed by the three Popes vnder whome the same was celebrated VVhiche Safeconductes conteine firste in moste ample wise ful Libertie Power Auctoritie and assurance for al and singuler persons of al Germanie of what degree state condition or qualitie so euer they bee that would come to that oecumenical and general Councel to conferre propounde and treate with al freedome of al thinges to be treated there and to the same Councel freely and safely to come there to tarry and abide and to offer and put vp articles so many as they thought good as wel in writinge as by woorde and with the Fathers and others thereto chosen to conferre and without any reproches or vpbraidinges to dispute also at theire pleasure safely againe from thence to departe An extension to other Nations The same holy Councel in the holy Ghoste lavvefully assembled the same Legates de latere of the See Apostolike being president in it to al and singuler others vvhiche haue not cōmunion vvith vs in those maters that be of Faithe of vvhat so euer Kingdomes Nations Prouinces Citties and Places in vvhiche openly and vvithout punishement is preached or taught or beleued the contrarie of that vvhiche the holy Romaine Churche holdeth geueth Faithe publique or Safeconducte vnder the same forme and the same vvordes vvith vvhich it is geuen to the Germaines This being moste true as the better part of the worlde seeth and the Bookes and publique instrumentes extant doo witnesse your excuse of your refusal to come to the Councel as Bishoppes of other Christian Realmes did is founde false Ye had al free libertie and securitie graunted vnto you for that behalfe in so ample and large maner as mans witte coulde denise The seconde cause why ye came not is for that the Popes Legates Patriarches Archebishoppes Bishoppes and Abbotes al being conspired together al lincked together in one kinde of faulte and al bounde in one Othe sitte alone by them selues and haue power alone to geue theire consent VVhat is here that should let you to ioine with others for procuring vnitie and peace in Christendome Complaine ye of the Fathers concorde and agreeinge togeather That is a signe the spirite of God authour of charitie and vnitie gouerneth their hartes In that respect they seeme to comme togeather in the holy Ghoste And in deede had ye gone thither your heresie◠had benne confuted your selues required to yelde and to conforme you to the Catholique churche or els ye had benne anathematized accursed and condemned Your third cause is for that the determinations and decrees of the Councel be referred to the Pope To that we haue answeared before The Pope confirmeth al being head ouer the Councel Doth not the Queene so pardy cōfirme your actes of Parlament by geuing her Roial assent vnto them at the ende of the Parlament VVhat thinge can be done perfitly by a body without the head And who might better confirme Councels then he whose Faithe in pronouncinge sentence rightly and duely in maters concerning Faithe we are assured by Christes praier to be infallible Your fourth cause is for as mutche as the Ancient and Christian libertie which of right should specially be in Christian Councels is now vtterly taken away This cause is not different frō your first Your fifth cause is a false lie that Princes Ambassadours be vsed but as mocking stockes Truthe it is thei haue moste honourable seates in al Councels In this Councel thei sate by the Legates Euery Ambassadour hath his place there according to the degree of honoure the kingdomes common weales states and Princes be of from whence and from whom he commeth The sixt and last cause ye alleage for your not comming to the Councel is for that ye be cōdemned already before trial as though the matter were aforehand dispatched and agreed vpon In dede your heresies for the more part be and haue ben condemned about a thousand yeres past And therefore thei are not nowe to be called vnto a newe trial as though the Churche vntil this daie had benne deceiued and so many Fathers ouerseene This notwithstanding maie ye wel saie touching that point your matter is afore hand dispatched and agreed vpon For thei knowe what ye can saie and see that ye saie nothing but onely stande wilfully and stubbornly in your false opinions and fleshly pleasures The B. of Sarisburie Wee neuer suppressed any of your Bookes M. Hardinge as you knowe but are very wel contented to see them so common that as nowe children maie plaie with them in the Streetes Your manifest Vntruthes your Simple Conclusions your often Contrarieties to your selfe your Newe founde Authoures your Childishe Fables your Vncourteous Speaches your Rackinge Corrupting Misceportinge of the Doctours therein couteined haue mutche bewraied the miserable feeblenesse of your cause Your Felowes haue no cause greately to glorie in sutche healpes nomore then in other your like Pamflettes vnmeete of any wise man to be answeared This was your onely and special policie in the time of your late Kingdome Yee suppressed and called in burnt al our Writinges what so euer yea the very Testament Gospel of Christe truely translated into Englishe naming them Heretical and Vnlawful Bookes And if any man had conceled and keapte vnto him selfe for his cōforte any sutche Booke written by any of our syde by most terrible bloudy Proclamations yee made it Felonie So mutche yee despaired and doubted your owne folies As for the Bookes of our Apologie they haue ben spreadde so farre printed so often in Latine in Italian in Frenche in Duitche in Englishe that as nowe it were hard to suppresse them Touchinge the shamelesse lieinge wherewith yee charge vs. we are wel content to stande to the Iudgement of the wise Certainely it shameth vs mutche to see so litle shame in youre Writinges Yee saie The Pope gaue out his Saueconducte to al the Princes and Free Citties and to the whole people of Germanie to come to the Councel to propounde to dispute at theire pleasure and when they shoulde thinke it good freely and safely to returne with a large Extension to other Nations as yee saie to like pourpose But firste M. Hardinge what safetie can there be in his Saueconducte that is not hable to saue him selfe Pope Eugenius the fourthe if he had comme to the Councel of Basile as you knowe had benne quite deposed from his Popedome al his Saueconductes notwithstandinge Pope Iohn 22. gaue oute as sure a Saueconducte for the Councel of Constance as Pope Pius could diuise any for your late Chapter of Tridente Yet notwithstandinge al his Safetie beinge him selfe present in the Councel he was pulled out of Peters Chaire and depriued of his Dignitie and stripte out of his Pontificalibus and turned
The B. of Sarisburie Al this whole mater touchinge as wel Kinge Iehosophat as also Amarias the Highe Prieste is answeared in that is paste before The Apologie Cap. 11. Diuision 11. Kinge Iosias with greate diligence put the Priestes Bishoppes in minde of their dueties Kinge Iohas bridled the Riote and Arrogancie of the Priestes Iehu put to deathe the wicked Prophetes M. Hardinge The puttinge of Priestes and Bishoppes in minde of their dutie is not a Supremacie in determininge Ecclesiasticall causes And whereas you saie that Kinge Ioas bridled the râ—ot and arrogancie of the Priestes if it were so it was well donne But I finde not those woordes in the texte Concerninge that Iehu did it is a mere temporall Office to put false preachers and Heretikes to death Neither can it belonge to Priestes onlesse they haue also ciuill iurisdiction Muche lesse dothe that acte proue that Kinges be Supreme heades ouer the Churche and ought to be Iudges in controuersies and questions of Religion The B. of Sarisburie Concerninge the storie of Kinge Iohas I reporte me to that is written of him in the Booke of Kinges He sequestred the Oblations of the people whiche the Priestes had bestowed lewdely and wantonly vpon them selues and by his owne Authoritie turned the same to the Reparations of the Temple Of Kinge Iosias it is written thus Constituit Iosias Sacerdotes in officijs suis Kinge Iosias appointed the Priestes to minister in theire seueral Offices And againe Mundauit Iudam Hierusalem ab Excelsis Lucis Kinge Iosias cleansed and ridde Iuda and Hierusalem from their Hille Aultars and their Groaues But yée wil saie He did al thinges by yâ— discretion of the Priestes Bishoppes This thinge in deede is necessarie while the Priestes and Bishoppes be learned and godly But Kinge Iosias did far otherwise for he sent the Bishop him selfe vnto Olda the Prophetisse to learne the discretion and Iudgemente of a VVooman and so was directed in maters of Highest Religion by a VVooman and not by a Prieste These Examples be so manifeste that one of your Felowes there is faine thus to excuse the mater by ouer mutche Antiquitie If we woulde in these daies saithe he vse in all pointes the Examples of the Olde Lawe there woulde folowe an huge number of inconueniences It is no good reason to saie that therefore our Kinges nowe a daies muste haue the like Authoritie Thus saithe he As though the Princes righte were now abated and altered as the Ceremonies of the Lawe were otherwise nowe then it was before Or as if the Comminge of Christe into the worlde and the Preachinge of the Gospel had pourposely benne to represse and pulle downe the State of Kinges The Apologie Cap. 12. Diuision 1. And to rehearse no more Examples out of the Olde Lawe let vs rather consider sithence the Birthe of christe howe the churche hath benne gouerned in the time of the Gospel M. Hardinge If we consider the Office of a Kinge in it selfe it is one euery where not onely amonge Christen Princes but also amonge Heathen * The definition of a Kinge whiche agreeth to Iulius Cesar or to Alexander the Greate as they were Monarkes and Princes is one with the definition of a Kinge whiche agreeth to Henry the Eight or to Charles the Fifthe So that no more could Kinge Henry as Kinge meddle with Religion then Alexander or Iulius Cesar * His place is chiefe amonge the laie euen when they are in the Churche at the Seruice of God and without the Churche in all Temporall thinges and causes he is ouer the Priestes themselues And because all these examples are taken out of the Olde Testamente I will geeue thee a true resolution out of the same Booke what auctoritie Priestes had and what auctoritie Kinges had Moses gaue this rule concerninge the same matter If saithe he thou perceiue an harde and doubtfull iudgement to be with thee betweene bloude and bloude cause and cause Lepre and Lepre and seest the woordes of the iudges within thy gates to varie arise and goe vp to the place whiche thy Lorde God shall chose and thou shalte come to the Priestes of the stocke of Leui and to the Iudge that shall be for the time and thou shalte demaunde of them who shall shewe the truthe of iudgemente to thee But neither the Prieste by this place may medle with that iurisdiction whiche belonged to the Temporall iudge neither the Iudge with that whiche was spirituall and belonginge onely to the Prieste For of such causes Azarias the Priest and Bishop saide to Kinge Ozias It is not thy office Ozias to burne incense vnto our Lorde It is the office of the Priestes That is to saie of the Sonnes of Aaron VVho are consecrated to doo suche Ministeries But this the Kinge mighte doo euen in matters of Religion VVhen the High Priest had geuen sentence he might see the execution thereof to be donne But otherwise what so euer Kinge or Temporal iudge might not doo in his owne person ‡ muche lesse mighte he iudge whether an other did well therein or no. And this concerninge the Olde Testament The B. of Sarisburie The Office of a Kinge yée saie was no more in Kinge Henry the Eighth or in Charles the Fifthe then it was in the Heathen Princes Iulius Caesar or Alexander the Greate And therefore yée saie a Christian Princes Office standeth onely in Maters Temporal and for that cause yee so often calle him a Mere Laie Temporal Prince as if he were in Authoritie not mutche better then an Heathen Magistrate Euen so M. Harding is your Pope no more a Bishop or perhaps mutche lesse a Bishop then Annas and Caiphas Neither is your Prieste more a Prieste then the Prieste of Dagon or Baal The difference standeth not in Office but onely in Truthe Yet neuerthelesse yée knowe that Heathen Princes had euermore a Soueraine Authoritie not onely ouer theire Priestes and Bishoppes but also ouer al Cases of Religion Aristotle saithe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Kinge that is Lorde and Ruler of thinges that perteine vnto the Goddes And therefore Socrates in his storie saithe Imperatores vnà complexi sumus c. Wee haue also herein comprised the Emperours Liues for that sithence the Emperours were first Christened the affaires of the Churche haue hanged of them and the greatest Councelles bothe haue benne and are keapte by theire aduise Yee saie The Prince in doubteful Cases was commaunded to take Counsel of the Highest Prieste This is true But wil yée conclude hereof that the Highest Prieste maie saie doo what he listeth without controlmente What if the Highe Prieste woulde answeare thus as he answeared sommetime in déede This Christe is a Samaritane a deceiuer of the people and hath a Diuel What if he teare his owne roabes for anger and crie oute He Blasphemeth he is vvoorthy to die Yet
to see peace and concorde in the Churche of God VVho liste to reade the Epistles of Pope Leo to Pulâ—â—eria the Emperesse to Martian himselfe to Theodosius to Flauianus Archebishop of Constanâ—â—nople to the Synode firste assembled at Ephesus afterwarde for certaine causes at Chalcedon in the same Epistles he may see bothe the cause of the councell and what conference was had thereof with the saide Leo Bishop of Rome who sente firste to Ephesus Iulianus a Bishop Renatus a Prieste and Hilarius a Deacon and afterwarde to Chalcedon Paschasinus and Lucentius Bishoppes and Bonifacius a Prieste to represente hius personne In one of the saide Epistles written to the Seconde Synode at Ephesus Leo saithe thus Religiosissima Clementissimi principis Fides c. The moste religious Faithe of our moste element Prince knowinge it to perteine chiefely to his reâ—me if within the Catholike Churche no branche of errour springe hath deferred this reuerence to Gods ordinaunces as to vse the auctoritie of the see Apostolike to achieue the effect of a Holy purpose as though he were desirous by the moste blessed Peter himselfe that to be declared whiche in his confession was praised By whiche woordes It is plaine that in matters of Religion the Emperoure proceeded not vpon his owne Head but was directed by the See of Peter VVhat shal I saie more If the Emperoure first Christened the Pope let the Emperour be superiour in thinges to Godward But if the Pope Christened the Emperour as Syluester did Constantine let the spirituall Father in that degree of rule be aboue the spirituall Childe The B. of Sarisburie No man coulde vtter so many Vntruthes togeather with sutche assiance without somme cunninge Firste M. Hardinge yée beare vs in hande that the Emperours of the Worlde in those daies summoned Councelles not by their owne Authoritie but by the Authoritie Warrante of the Pope As if the Popes Authoritie at that time had benne many degrees aboue the Emperoure Notwithstandinge Pope Pius 2. as you knowe saithe thus Ante Nicenam Synodum vnusquisque sibi vixit paruus respectus ad Romanam Ecclesiam habebatur Before the Councel of Nice eche Bishop liued seuerally to him selfe and little regarde was there then had to the Churche of Rome Pope Innocentius complaineth that he had not Authoritie sufficient to force Pelagius beinge but one man to comme before him mutche lesse had he Authoritie sufficient to commaunde calle the whole worlde Pope Leo bothe was an humble suiter himselfe vnto yâ— Emperoure Martianus that it would please his Maiestie to commaunde a Councel and also entreated other Bishoppes to promote the cause Thus he writeth Humiliter ac sapienter exposcite vt Petâ—tiom nostrae qua Plenariam indici Synodum postulamus Clementissimus Imperator dignetur annuere Make suite with discrete and humble Praier that our moste Gracious Emperoure woulde vouchesaue to graunte oure requeste in that wee haue desired a General Councel It is not likely that Pope Leo woulde thus haue written if his owne Authoritie had benne sufficiente Naie it is the more vnlikely that the Emperoure shoulde herein at any time vse the Authoritie of the Pope for that the Pope him selfe was neuer hable to summone Bishoppes as hereafter it shal appeare but onely by the Authoritie of the Emperoure Pope Damasus commaunded the Bishoppes of the Easte to comme to Rome How be it not in his owne name for that had benne no warrante but by the Emperours special letters Eusebius saith thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Exemplar Regiarum Literarum quibus iubet Romae Episcoporum Concilium celebrari This is a Copie of the Emperours VVrite whereby he commaunded a Councel to be keapte In Rome As for the Pope notwithstandinge al his Vniuersal Povver he was commaunded by the Emperours Summone to be presente at Councelles as wel as others In the Councel of Chalcedon it is written thus Eodem tenore à Pijssimis Christianissimis Imperatoribus Sanctissimus noster Papa Romanae Ecclesiae praepositus Leo vocatus est By order of the same VVrite Oure moste Holy Pope Leo ruler of the Churche of Rome was called to the Councel by the moste Godly and moste Christian Emperours Sozomenus saithe Constantinus scripsit ad omnes Praesides Ecclesiarum vt ad diem adessent Ad Episcopos Apostolicarum Sedium Ad Macarium Hierosoly mitanum ad Iulium Romanum c. The Emperoure Constantinus sente out his Letters vnto al the Rulers of the Churches that they should meete al at Nice vpon a daâ—e vnto the Bishoppes of the Apostolike Sees vnto Macarius yâ— Bishop of Hierusalem and vnto Iulius the Bishop of Rome c. But sulius excused his absence because of his age Otherwise of Obedience and Dewtie towardes the Emperoure he was as mutche bounde to haue made his appearance there as the reste of his Brethren Yee saie If the Emperoure shoulde haue summoned the Councel by his owne Authoritie then the Bishoppes of Persia and Scotlande whiche Countries were not then vnder the Obedience of the Romaine Empiere woulde not haue appeared vpon the Summone and so had it benne no General Councel This cauil wanteth bothe truthe and sauoure For proufe whereof I wil bringe foorthe your selfe M. Hardinge to reprooue your selfe Yée should not so soone haue foregotten your owne Decree specially conceiued and published in this selfe same Booke Thus you saie these be your owne woordes A Councel is not accoumpted General bicause Bishoppes of al Countries vnder Heauen be assembled but bicause many be assembled and al be lawfully called Otherwise your Late Chapter of Tridente with your woorthy number of Fourtie Prelates whereof certaine were onely Maie Bishoppes otherwise by you called Nullatenses coulde neuer haue benne a General Councel Certainely it cannot appeare that there was any Bishop either of Scotlande or of Englande then called Britaine at any of the firste foure Councelles either at Nice or at Ephesus or at Constantinople or at Chalcedon Yet are these Councelles neuerthelesse called General Touchinge the reste the Emperoure was then the onely Monarke of the worlde and as Chrysostome calleth him Summitas Caput omnium super terram hominum The Toppe and Heade of al menne in the worlde No doubte who so euer woulde then haue refused the Emperours Summone mutche more woulde he haue refused the Summone of the Pope To qualiâ—â—e the mater yée sate the Emperoure did these thinges although not by the Popes vvarrante yet at thâ— leaste by the Popes Consente and neuer otherwise Here likewise is an other Vntruthe For the Emperoure commaunded Councelles bothe when he woulde and whither he would whether the Pope woulde or no many times without any manner of regarde had to his pleasure Pope Leo wrote thus vnto the Emperoure Theodosius Omnes nostrae Ecclesiae Omnes Mansueâ—udini Vestrae cum gemitibus Lachrymis supplicant Sacerdâ—â—es vt Generalem Synodum iubeatis intra Italiam
the Bishop of Lilybaeum or the Pope in whose name he gaue sentence a Ciuil Magistrate VVhat is impudencie what is licentious lieinge what is deceitful dealinge if this be not Of Iuuenalis Archibishop of Hierusalem and Thalassius Archebishop of Caesaria in Cappadocia thus mutche I saie They might wel haue a rebuke for misusinge them selues in the seconde Councel at Ephesus where they sate like Iudges without authoritie of thee See of Rome whiche as Lucentius saide in the Synode of Chalcedon was neuer orderly donne neither was it lauful to be donne they might I saie take a rebuke for so presuming besides the Popes authoritie but for as mutche as they mainteined not thiere fact but among other Bishoppes of the Eastcried out Omnes peccauimus Omnes veniam postulamus VVee haue al sinned VVee al beseche pardonne Yea for as mutche as Iuuenalis reiected the faulte vpon Elpidius who did not commaunde Eusebius the accuser of Eutyches to comme in and Thalassius saide he was not cause thereof it maie wel be they were pardonned although the honorable Iudges and Senate saide vnto them In Iudicio Fidei non est defensio In a Iudgement of Faithe this is no excuse But in case they were deposed then are we sure it was not donne by the Ciuil Magistrates otherwise then that they might allowe and execute the sentence of Deposition before geeuen The B. of Sarisburie If the Councel of Chalcedon seeme ouer longe with better reading yee maie make it shorter That Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Thalassius were al three condemned in that Councel that yee saie yee finde not Howe be it if â—ee had sought it better yee might soone haue founde it One of your owne Frendes of Louaine saithe that herein yee were toomutche ouerseene The very woordes truely recorded in the Councel are these Videtur nobis iustum esse eidem poenae Dioscorum Reuerendum Episcopum Alexandriae Iuuenalem Reuerendum Episcopum Hierosolymorum Thalassium Reuerendum Episcopum Caesariae Cappadociae subiacere à Sancto Concilio secundum Regulas ab Episcopali dignitate fieri alienos Vnto vs it seemeth right that Dioscorus the Reuerende Bishop of Alexandria and Iuuenalis the Reuerende Bishop of Hierusalem and Thalassius the Reuerende Bishop of Caesaria in Cappadocia shoulde be put to the same pounishemente and by the holy Councel accordinge to the Canons shoulde be remoued from their Episcopal dignities The which woordes yee might also haue founde fully reported in Euagrius Likewise also saithe Pope Leo touchinge the same De nominibus Dioscori Iuuenalis Eustachij vel potiùs Thalassij ad Sacrum Altare non recitandis dilectionem tuam hoc decet custodire Touchinge the names of Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Eustachius or rather Thalassius not to be rehearsed at the Holy Aultar whiche was the Communion Table yee must keepe this order But yee saie Notwithstanding these Bishoppes were condemned in the Councel yet the Ciuile or Laie Iudges condemned them not For they were there ye saie onely to see good order and to keepe peace This M. Hardinge is your owne onely idle gheaste without any manner further Authoritie onely grounded vpon your selfe Certainely the woordes of the Councel be plaine Gloriosissimi Iudices amplissimus Senatus dixerunt The moste Noble Iudges and moste woorthy Senate saide Likewise saithe Euagrius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Lordes of the Emperours Councel decreed these thinges Neither were the Ciuile Iudges then so scrupulous to thinke thei might not deale in Cases of Religion as it maie wel appeare by theire woordes For thus they saie Gloriosissimi sudices Amplissimus Senatus dixerunt De Recta Catholica Fide perfectiùs sequenti die conuenienti Concilio diligentiorem Examinationem fieri opottere perspicimus The moste Noble Iudges and moste vvoorthy Senate saide Wee see that touchinge the Right Catholique Faithe the nexte daie when the Councel shal meete there muste be had a more diligente Examinatione And when the maters were concluded and published the Bishoppes of the East brake out into fauourable shootes in this sorte Iustum Rectum IudiciuÌ„ Vita longa Senatui Multi anni Imperatori Iuste and Righte is this Iudgemente Longe life vnto the Senate Many yeeres vnto the Emperoure For in al cases as wel Ecclesiastical as Temporal the Emperoure was Iudge ouer al. What so euer the Councel had determined without the Emperoures consent it had no force And therefore bothe the Bishoppes and other Temporal Iudges in the Councel vsed oftentimes to suspende to staie their Decrees in this sorte Videtur nobis iustum si placuerit Diuinissimo Pijssimo Domino nostro Vnto vs it seemeth right if it shal also like our moste vertuous and moste Godly Lorde the Emperoure In the ende thei conclude thus Omnibus quae acta sunt ad Sacrum Apicem referendis So that al our dooinges be remitted to the Emperoures Maiestie Al whiche woordes are borowed as the recte out of the Ecclesiastical storie of Euagrius Yee saie luuenalis and Thalassius might wel haue a rebuke for sittinge like Iudges in the Seconde Councel of Ephesus without Authoritie of the Pope O M. Harding either yee are mutche deceiued and prefume to speake before yee knowe whiche were great folie or els yee speake directely against your knowledge Conscience and willingely seeke to deceiue others whiche were greate wickednesse Verily ye might easily haue knowen that these three Bishoppes were condeÌ„ned not for intruding vpon the Popes authoritie as ye haue imagined but onely for Condemninge other Godly Bishoppes wickedly and without cause The woordes of the Councel are plaine Gloriosissimi Iudices dixerunt Vos quidem primitùs docuistis quia per vim necessitatem in pura Charta Coacti estis subscribere ad damnationem Sanctae memoriae Flauiani Orientales qui cum ipsis erant Reuerendissimi Episcopi clamauerunt Omnes peccauimus Omnes veniam postulamus The moste Nolse Iud 〈◊〉 lande yee haue here proued before vs that yee were driuen by force and violence in a â—â—anke paper to subscribe your names to the Condemnation of Flauianus of godly memorie The Bishoppes of the Easte and other Reuerende Bishoppes that were with them cried out VVe haue al offended VVe al desire pardoÌ„ne This in dede was theire faulte M. Hardinge Al that you imagine of vsurpinge the Popes Authoritie is but a fansie For the Popes Huge and Vniuersal Authoritie whereby nowe he clamenâ—a the whole Iurisdiction of al the worlde at that time was not knowen The same Councel of Chalcedon maketh him Equal in Authoritie and Dignitie with the Bishop of Constantinople The woordes be these Sedi Senioris Romae propter Imperium Ciuitatis illius Patres consequenter Priuilegia reddiderunt Et cadem intentione permoti Centum quinquaginta Deo amantissimi Episcopi aequa Sanctissimae Sedi Nouae Romae Priuilegia tribuerunt rationabiliter iudicantes Imperio Senatu Vrbem
Ornatam aequis Senioris Regiae Romae Priuiulegijs frui in Ecclesiasticis sicut illa Maiestatem habere negotijs Vnto the See of the Olde Rome in consideration of the Empiere of that Cittie Our Fathers haue accordingly geeuen Priuileges And vpon like consideration the hundred and fiftie godly Bishoppes haue geeuen equal and like Priuileges to the Cittie of Nevve Rome whereby is meante the Cittie of Constantinople For that thei thought it reasonable that the same Cittie of Constantinople being nowe adourned with Empiere and Senate shoulde also also haue Priuileges Equal vvith Rome the Elder and haue the same Maiestie and Authoritie in Ecclesiastical affaires that Rome hathe Thus yee see your Pope had not then a Power Peerelesse ouer al the Worlde but was made Like and Euen and Equal in al respectes to one of his Brethren Therefore if the Bishop of Rome were the Heade of the Churche then was the Bishop of Constantinople likewise y◠Heade of the Churche And if the Bishop of Romes Povver vvere Vniuersal then was the Bishop of Constantinoples Povver Vniuersal as wel as his For the Councel alloweth as mutche Ecclesiastical Authoritie to the one Bishop as to the other Nowe shortely to consider the whole substance of your talke Firste yee saie These three Bishoppes Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Thalassius were neuer condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon This yée sée is One Vntruthe Secondely yée saie The Ciuile Magistrate neuer condemned them This is an Other Vntruthe Thirdely yée saie Iuuenalis and Thalassius were rebuked for sitting as Iudges in Councel without the Popes Authoritie These are tvvoo other Vntruthes For neither had the Pope any sutche Prerogatiue at that time nor was this the Cause of theire Condemnation And yet as if ye woulde renne vs ouer with terroure of woordes yée crie out with a courrage vvhat is Impudencie what is Licenceous Lieing what is deceitful dealinge if this be not Touchinge these firy termes M. Hardinge I dare not Answeare you But as for Plaine lieinge without a difference if ye knowe not what it is looke through your owne Bookes ye cannot faile of it Verily it is to publishe Vntruthes so largely so liberally as you haue donne onely vpon affiance of the simplicitie ignorance of your Reader without regarde or feare of God or Man The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 2. In the Chirde Councel at Constantinople Constantine a Ciuile Magistrate did not onely sitte amongest the Bishoppes but did also Subscribe with them For saithe he VVe haue bothe readde Subscribed M. Hardinge The subscribing is not the matter but the iudginge Constantine subscribed to the Councel as now al Christen Princes beinge required ought to subscribe to the Tridentine Councel But Constantine vsed not this stile when he subscribed Definiens subscripsi I haue subscribed with geuing definittiue sentence For so to subscribe it apperteined onely to Bishops The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 3. In the Seconde Councel called Arausi canum the Princes Embassadours beinge Noble Men borne not onely spake their minde touchinge Religion but sette to theire handes also as wel as the Bishoppes For thus it is written in the later ende of that Councel Petrus Marcellinus Felix and Liberius being Most Noble Men and famous Lieurenantes Captaines of Fraunce also Peeres of the Realme haue geuen their consent and ser to their handes Further Syagrius Opilio Pantagathus Deodatus Cariattho and Marcellus menne of very greate honoure haue Subscribed M. Hardinge vvhat if al the laiemen of the worlde had subscribed by the worde of consenting or agreeing to the Bishops decrees eche one writinge thus as in that case the olde manner was consentiens subscripsi VVhat other thinge is proued thereby then that they thought it necessarie to allowe that whiche Bishops had determined VVhiche we wish ye woulde do The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 4. If it be so then that Lieutenantes Chiefe Captaines and Peeres haue had Authoritie to Subscribe in councel haue not Emperours and Kinges the like Authoritie M. Hardinge Kinges and Quenes not onely might but ought to subscribe when they are required The B. of Sarisburie Here M. Hardinge yée are driuen to many shiftes Somme of you saie that Princes Embassadours Ciuile Magistrates had no right to Subscribe in Councel but onely by licence sufferance of the Bishoppes Somme others haue found out a certaine difference in Subscriptions The Bishop yée saie Subscribed in one Fourme the Ciuile Magistrate in an other The Bishop thus Definiens Subscripsi By geuing my Definitiue Sentence I haue Subscribed The Laie Magistrate thus Consentiens Subscripsi Geuinge Consente hereto I haue Subscribed Thus haue you found out a knotte in a russhe diuised a Diuersitie without a Difference Certainely in the Olde councelles there appeareth onely one Fourme of Subscriptions no moe And afterwarde these Two Woordes Definiens and Consenriens wherein you imagine so greate a difference were vsed indifferently as wel of Bishoppes as of others as eche man was best affected Sommetime the Bishop Subscribed Cōsentiens Sommetime the Laieman Subscribed Definiens without seruple In the Councel of Chalcedon it is written thus Ego Dorotheus Episcopus Consensi Subscripsi I Bishop Dorothee haue Consented Subscribed Likewise it is written in the Councel of Parise Ego Probianus Episcopus Bituricēsis consensi Subscripsi I Probiane the Bishop of Bourges haue Consented and Subscribed Marius Victorinus saithe Nicenae Fidei multa Episcoporum milia Consenserunt Many thousande Bishoppes Consented vnto the Nicene Faithe Of the other side the Laie Prince in Councel hath had Authoritie not onely to Consente and agrée vnto others but also to Define and Determine and that in Cases of Religion as by many euidente Examples it maie appeare Euagrius saithe as it is before alleged 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They y◠were of y◠Senate or the Lordes of the Councel Determined these thinges Sozomenus saithe Imperator Constantinus iussit decem Episcopos Orientis totidem Occidentis quos Synodus designasser ad Aulam suam venire sibi exponere Decreta Concilij vt ipse quoqque consideraret an secundum Scripturas inter se conuenissent de rebus agendis quae optima viderentur Determinaret The Emperour Constantine commaunded that tenne Bishoppes of the Easte and tenne of the Weaste chosen by the Councel shoulde repaire to his Courte and open vnto him the Decrees of the Councel that his Maiestie might consider whether they were agreed accordinge to the Scriptures and that he might further not onely Consente or agrée but also Determine and Conclude what were beste to be donne Aeneas Syluius whiche afterwarde was Pope Pius 2. saithe thus Visum est Spiritui Sancto nobis vnde apparet alios quà m Episcopos in Concilijs habuisse vocem Decidentem It seemeth good to the Holy Ghoste and to vs. Hereby it appeareth that somme other biside Bishoppes had a voice Definitiue in Councelles And againe he
saithe Nec ego cuiusuis Episcopi mendacium quamuis ditissimi Veritati praeponam Pauperis Presbyteri Nec dedignari debet Episcopus si aliquando ignarus rudis sequacem non habeat multitudineÌ„ Neither wâ—l I sette more by any Bishoppes lie be he neuer so riche then I woulde sette by any Priestes Truthe be he neuer so poore Neither more the ignorante and vnlearned Bishop disdeigne if he see the people va willinge to folowe him Gerson saith Iudicium Conclusio Fidei licet Authoritatiue specteÌ„t ad Praelatos Doctores spectare tamen possunt ad alios quà m Theologos Deliberatio sicut Cognitio super his quae Fidem respiciunt Ita vt ad Laicos etiam hoc possit extendi plùs aliquando quà m ad multos Clericorum Notwithstandinge the Iudgemente and Conclusion of Faithe belonge by Authoritie vnto Bishoppes and Doctours yet as wel the Deliberation hereof as also the knovvledge and Iudgemente concerninge maters that touche the Faithe maie belonge vnto others too bisides the Diuines or Doctoures and Professours of Diuinitie Yea it more sommetimes be extended euen vnto the Laiemenne And more sommetimes vnto them then vnto many Priestes The Emperoure Iustinian in Ecclesiastical Causes oftentimes vseth these woordes Definimus Mandamus lubemus c. Wee Determine wee Conclude wee Commaunde wee Bidde Touchinge Bishoppes he writeth thus Definimus vt nullus Deo amabilium Episcoporum foris a sua Ecclesia plus quà m per totum annum abesse audeat Wee Define or Determine that none of the Godly Bishoppes shal dare to be absent from his Church more then by the space of one whole yeere Here yée sée the Temporal Prince in an Ecclesiastical Cause saithe Definimus To be shorte Pope Nicolas him selfe saithe writinge vnto the Emperoure Michael Vbinam legistis Imperatores Antecessores vestros Synodalibus Contentionibus interfuisse Nisi fortè in quibusdam vbi de Fide tractatum est quae Vniuersalis est quae omnium Communis est quae non solùm ad Clericos verùm etiam ad Laicos ad omnes omninò pertinet Christianos VVhere haue you readde that your Predecessours being Emperours were euer Present at our Disputations in Councelles Onlesse happily it vvere in certaine cases vvhereas mater vvas moued touchinge the Faithe For Faithe is Vniuersal and Common to al and perteineth not onely vnto Priestes but also vnto Laiemen and generally and thorovvly to al Christians Thus yée see M. Hardinge by the Popes owne Iudgemente that Cases and Disputations of the Faithe belonge as wel to the Temporal Prince as to the Pope The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 5. Truely there had benne no neede to handle so plaine a mater as this is with so many woordes so at lengthe if wee had not to doo with those menne who for a desire they haue to striue and to winne the maisterie vse of course to denie al thinges be thei neuer so cleare yea the very same whiche they presently see and beholde with theire owne eies M. Hardinge The matter ye speake of is so cleare that from the beginninge of the worlde to this daie no secular Prince can be named who by the ordinary power of a Prince without the gifte of prophecie or special reuelation did laudably intermeddle with Religion as a iudge and ruler of spiritual causes The reason thereof is cleare Religion is an order of Diuine worshippinge belonginge to God onely whereupon no man hath power but he that is called thereto by God He is called in the iudgemente of men who can shewe his callinge out wardly as by consecration and imposition of handes Priestes and Bishops are called to be the dispensatours of the mysteries of God In that consecration the keies of knowledge and discretion the power of blindinge and loosinge is geuen If a secular Prince can not shewe the keies geuen to him howe dareth he aduenture to breake vp rather then to open the clasped booke of God the dore of the Churche and the gates of the Kingedome of heauen VVherefore S. Ambrose saide vnto Valentinian Quando audiuisti Imperator in causa Fidei Laicos de Episcopo iudicasse VVhen haste thou hearde Emperoure Laymen to haue ben iudges of a Bishop in the cause of Faithe And yet nowe these menne thinke that whiche S. Ambrose neuer hearde of not onely to haue ben vsed continually the firste fiue hundred yeres after Christes birthe but also to be as cleare a matter as if we behelde it with our eies The B. of Sarisburie The Temporal Prince yée saie hath not the Keies of the Kingdome of Heauen Ergo he maie not iudge in Ecclesiastical Causes nor geeue Definitiue Sentence in General Councel This is a very sely poore Argumente M. Hardinge as hereafter it shal appeare But S. Ambrose saithe vnto the Emperoure Valentinian When did your Maiestie euer heare that in a Cause of Faithe a Laiemenne were Iudges ouer Bishoppes Here M. Hardinge by the waie S. Amrbose géeueth you to vnderstande that onlesse it be in a Cause of Faithe a Laieman maie be Iudge ouer a Bishop whiche thinge is contrarie not onely to your Former Doctrine but also to the whole course and practise of your Churche of Rome Howe be it touchinge the meaning of these woordes it behoueth vs to knowe Firste the cause wherefore S. Ambrose so shunned and fledde the Emperours Iudgemente Nexte before what Iudges he desired to be tried First the Emperoure Valentinian at that time was very yonge as wel in Age as also in Faithe He was not yet Baptized He knewe not the Principles of Christes ReligioÌ„ He was an Arian Heretique and beleued not the Godhedde of Christe but bent al his studie and power to mainteine the Arians He woulde haue thruste out the Christianes woulde haue possessed the Heretiques in theire Churches and to that ende had raised his Power and filled Millaine ful of Souldiers He saide It was lawful for him to doo what him listed Briefely his whole dealinge was ful of force violence sutche as hath benne séene in somme Countries not many yéeres sithence In consideration hereof S. Ambrose woorthily refused him to be his Iudge And therefore he saide vnto him Tolle Legem si vis esse Cerramen Take awaie the rigoure of your Lavve if ye wil haue the mater tried by Disputation Againe Noli te grauare Imperator vt putes te in ea quae Diuina sunt Imperiale aliquod ius habere Noli te extollere Esto Deo subiectus Scriptum est quae Dei Deo quae Caesaris Caesari O my Lorde trouble not your selfe to thinke you haue any Princely Power ouer those thinges that perteine to God Vaunte not your selfe be subiecte vnto God It is written Geue vnto God that belongeth vnto God Geue vnto Caesar that belongeth vnto Caesar But as S. Ambrose saithe The Emperoure hathe no Povver ouer Goddes causes so maie wee likewise and
Prouincial Synode maie be ordered as it is concluded in the Councel of Nice Likewise S. Ambrose saithe Sciebant esse consuerudinem vt in Oriente Orientalium esset Concilium Intra occidentem Occidentalium They knewe it was a Custome that a Councel of the East Bishoppes shoulde be holden in the Easte and a Councel of the VVeaste Bishoppes aparte in the Weaste S. Augustine saithe Literas Episcoporum per Sermonem fortè sapientiorem cuiuslibet in ea re peritioris licet reprehendi si quid in eis fortè à Veritate deuiatum est Bishoppes Letters if they swarue any thinge from the Truthe maie be controlled by the discretion of any other man that hath more skil in the mater In like sorte Abbate Panormitane your own Doctoure saith as it hath benne alleged before In concernentibus Fidem etiam dictum Vnius Priuati esset praeferendum dicto Papae fi ille moueretur mehoribus rationibus Noui Veteris Testamenti In maters concerning the Faithe the saieinge of any one Priuate Man were to be taken before the saieinge of the Pope if he were moued with better reasons of the Olde and Nevve Testamente then the Pope Howe be it wée haue not by our Prouincial Councel remoued or shaken the Authoritie of any one Anciente General Councel M. Harding For of al the Anciente Councelles that haue benne touchinge the cases that lie bitwéene vs in controuersie yee are not yet hable to allege one Wée haue vpon good causes remoued your Vanities vnséemely Folies haue restoared againe so mutch as in vs late the Decrees Canons of the Anciente Councelles Hincmarus the Bishop of Remes saith thus Cùm duarum aut trium Prouinciarum Praesules in vnum conueniunt si Antiquorum Canonum iustitutione muniti aliquid praedicationis aut dogmatis instituunt quod tamen ab Antiquorum Patrum dogmaribus non discrepet Catholicum est quod faciunt fortasse dici potest Vniuersale When the Bishoppes of twoo or three Prouinces meete togeather if they by the warrante of the Olde Councelles appointe any mater of preachinge or Doctrine so that it disagree not from y◠Doctrine of the Ancient Fathers it is Catholique that thei doo and perhaps maie be called Vniuersal The credite of the Emperoure Charles Booke reportinge the Decrees of the Councel of Frankfoorde touchinge the Adoration of Images I leaue wholy to the indifferente discretion of the Reader It was Printed not at Geneua as you surmise but in Parise The setter out proueth it not to be forged by many good and likely Reasons An Anciente Copie of the same is yet stil to be séene in Rome in Laterane euē in the Popes owne Librarie Augustinus Steuchus the Maister of the same Librarie reporteth y◠same The Emperour Ludouicus Sonne vnto Charles wrote a Booke yet extante and remaininge in France to like purpose Freere Eckius also beareth witnesse vnto y◠same Booke of the Emperoure Charles although vntruely and guilefully as his manner is For he saith that Charles wrote four Bookes in Defence of Images whereas in deede the Bookes are directely written againste Images Although yée thinke Eli Phili or I knowe not who maie easily be charged with corruption forgerie yet why the Pope him selfe shoulde corrupte forge his owne Booke in his owne Librarie against him selfe it were harde for you to shewe good Reason The Councel of Frankforde yée saie was Godly and Catholique and made Decrees againste Imagebreakers in the behalfe of Images Yet notwithstandinge Auentinus saith In Frankfordiensi Concilio Scita Graecorum de Adorandis Imaginibus rescissa sunt In the Councel of Frankford the Grecians Decrees for the Adoration of Images were quite abolished Regino saithe Pseudosynodus Graecorum quam pro adorandis Imaginibus fecerunt reiecta est The False Councel of the Greekes whiche they made for Adoration of Images was repealed in the Councel of Frankforde Likewise Ado saithe Pseudosynodus quam Graeci Septimam vocant pro Adorandis Imaginibus abdicata est penitùs The False Councel whiche the Greekes calle the Seuenthe wherein Decrees were made for the Adoration of Images was there vtterly put awaie Hincmarus the Archebishop of Remes speakinge of the same Councel of Frankforde saith thus Pseudolynodus Graecorum destructa est penitùs abdicata De cuius destructione non Modicum Volumen quod in Palatio adolescentulus legi ab eodem Imperatore Romam est per quosdam Episcopos missum The False Councel of the Greekes was repealed and vtterly ouerthro wen in the Councel of Frankforde Whereof when I was a yong man I readde a prety bigge Booke in the Popes Palaice in Rome whiche Booke was sente thither by certaine Bishoppes from the saide Emperoure Charles Certaine woordes of the saide Levvde or False Councel of the Greekes emongest others are these Qui timet Deum Adorat Imagines vt Filium Dei Qui Adorat Imaginem dicit hoc est Christus non peccat peccat qui nō Adorat Imaginem Qui non Adorat imaginem est Haereticus Imago Adoranda est eodom cultu quo Sancta Trinitas He that feareth God Adoureth an Image as he would Adoure the Sonne of God He that Adoureth an Image and saith This is Christe offendeth not He offendeth that Adoureth not an Image He that Adoureth not an Image is an Heretique wee muste Adoure an Image with the same Reuerence wherewith wee Adoure the Holy Trinitie Nowe whether these and other like woorthy saieinges and sentences were to be reproued or no it maie please you M. Hardinge to consider That Councel yée saie is called General not whereun to al Christian Nations doo resorte in déede but whereunto al Christian Nations are lawfully summoned As this answeare is true not denied so by the same your late Councel of Tridente maie in no wise be called General For what lawful Sommones sente your Pope Pius either to Preter Gian into Ethiopia or to other Bishoppes and Christians in India or Europa onely and that not whole excepted into any other Kingedome or Countrie of the worlde But yée saie In Persia Media Egypte Mauritania and in other Countries adioininge there are fewe Christians at this daie to be founde Yet the Authours of Nouus Orbis discribing the state of the world saie thus In al Countries vvhither so euer yee comme there be somme Christians Againe In India many Kinges princes professe Christe And againe In Armenia cilicia in a manner the vvhole people is Christened Onely they are subiecte to the Cham of Tartarie Their Priestes be maried And vvho so is vnmaried maie be no Priest Yée saie The Patriarkes of Assyria and Armenia that neuer sawe neither the one Countrie nor the other were at Rome yée knowe not when and subscribed to al the Articles of your Councel of Tridente O M. Hardinge yee can grate no greate credite by open mockerie It is no
Councel of your Priuate Masse VVhiche thinge thus of your parte confessed to our pourpose is sufficiente Now touchinge the Authoritie of your Amphilochius not long sithence yee thought his force had benne inuincible And therefore yee stoode vp alofte and braied alowde Novve M Ievvel and his Consacramentaries doo stagger I doubte not And for that cause as if it had benne somme greate woorthy Authoure yee alleged him seuen times with special reuerence in one Booke And yet nowe at the laste yee are contente for shame to turne him ouer and to let him goe Perhaps yee thought for the while a weake threede was sufficient to leade the people and that as folkes vse sommetimes to please children yee might quenche their thirste with an emptie cuppe Thus mutche hitherto touchinge somme partes of your Reioinder Concerninge your Former Booke whiche yee haue intitled a Confutation I neede to saie nothinge By the iudgemente of the wise it saithe sufficiently of it selfe But what meante you M. Hardinge therein to make so large discourse I wil not saie in the Defence for that woorde your frendes maie not beare but at the leaste in the fauoure of Open Stevves and to calle the same Malum necessarium that is to saie although an il thinge yet sutche a thinge as no good Common weale maie be without it VVhat meante you to that purpose to shewe vs the name and Authoritie of S. Augustine and thus to vpbraide vs in the ende In good soothe Maisters ye are too yonge to cōtrolle the Cittie of Rome in her doinges VVhat needed you to bestowe so fine eloquence in so fowle a cause Is vice growen so colde in Louaine that it muste be enflamed and authorized by open VVritinge VVhat meante you to allege the Prophete Dauid the Euangeliste S. Mathevve and S. Paule the Apostle for proufe of your Pardonnes VVil yee telle vs that Dauid Matthevve and Paule were Pardoners Or if yee dare to telle vs so must wee beleeue it If yee so manifestly mocke vs with open folies howe maie wee truste you in higher Mysteries S. Paule saithe Though our outwarde man be corrupted yet our inwarde man is renewed daie by daie Here yee telle vs in greate soothe that these woordes vndoubtedly serue to proue Purgatorie Christe saithe vnto Peter I haue praied for thee c. Therefore yee saie Christe novve requireth vs not to be obediente to Peter or Paule but to the Pope that sitteth in theire Chaire Christe saithe The Sonne of Man came not to destroie but to saue Ergo saie you The Breade and VVine in the Sacramente lose no parte of their former vertues but remaine in Fourmes and Accidentes euen as they vvere before as if the Sonne of God had come downe from Heauen to saue Accidentes Thus yee nippe of the sense and meaninge of the Holy Scriptures and feede vs onely with emptie woordes as if yee woulde pike awaie the corne and geeue vs the chaffe or conueigh awaie the iewels and throwe vs the bagge O M. Hardinge be not wilful let your owne conscience leade you VVas this the meaninge of S. Paule was this the comminge of Christe into the worlde was this the sense of the Holy Ghoste I wil not saie what Olde Doctour or Anciente Father but what Summiste what Canoniste what Childe what Heretique euer either so vndiscretely or so vnreuerently vsed the VVoorde of God I leaue the misconstrueinge and falsifieinge of so many Fathers the allowinge and soothinge of manifest Forgeries the vpholdinge of Abuses and open Erroures your weake Proufes your seely Coniectures your simple Gheasses your greate Ouersightes your bolde Affirmations your heapes of Vntruthes your disdeigneful Scornes your immoderate Scoffes your vngentile and vnciuile woordes as for example Villanes Theeues Fooles Disardes Lourdaines c. I leaue other your vnmannerly and vncleanely speaches Hungry Dogges eate dirty puddinges As common as life vvith beggers They serue the belly and the thinges beneath the belly VVas this a presente M. Hardinge meete either for the Modestie of a Virgine or for the Maiestie of a Prince specially sutche a Virgine and sutche a Prince so Chaste so Graue so Learned so VVise so Vertuous so Godly as Christendome seldome hath seene the like VVhat thought you that either her wisedome coulde not espie your fraudes and mockeries or that her chaste eares coulde quietly beare your lothesome talke Or thought you by the weight of sutche reasons to mooue Mountaines and to woorke woonders and to force her Maiestie to leaue christe and his Gospel and comme to Louaine to folowe you Yee threape her Maiestie fondely with kindenesse and as yee woulde haue the worlde imagine with good likinge and fauouringe of your side as if her Maiestie hauing benne brought vp from her cradle in the knowledge and feare of God and through Goddes greate Mercie and accordinge to his knowen VVil by the good aduise and counsel of the states of her Realme hauinge refourmed the House of God from the filthe and soile of your diuises shee stoode nowe in a mammeringe and were not hable to discerne either Falsehedde from Truthe or Darkenesse from Light or as if your Errours were not so grosse that a blinde man maie groape them with his Fingers Yee telle her Maiestie shee hath neither Parlamente nor Lavve nor Churche nor Cleregie The Churche of Englande yee commonly calle the Tovver of Babylon the Synagog of Antichriste and the Schoole of Sathan ye charge her Maiestie with disordered proceedinges with mainteinance of Infidelitie of Sacrilege of Schisme of Heresie For your possible power ye dishonour her Maiestie bothe abroade and at home where yee maie geate credite to your folies yee sclaunder the gouernmente yee disquiete her Maiesties louinge Subiectes yee breede Seditions yee procure Rebellions yee hazarde her estate And yet dare yee to pouder al this poison with a fewe dissembled and sugred woordes and to offer the same vnto her Maiestie for a presente VVel M. Hardinge if yee had foreseene the thankes that her Maiestie moste iustely yeelded you for your trauailes yee woulde not haue benne so bolde so rudely to presse into her presence It behooued you to be aduised not onely what yee wrote but also what Personage shoulde viewe your writinges If yee shal happen to write hereafter sende vs fewer woordes and more Learninge If yee shal diuise to talke any more of your Priuate Masse leaue your vagaries and goe directly to the pourpose Telle vs no moe sutche longe tales either of the Sacrifice or of other maters so farre from the question It is no good Logique to shifte of the thinge yee haue in hande and to mocke your poore Reader with an other Treade not so nicely and so gingerly M. Hardinge Saie not your Masse is a Circumstance and a mater of Facte and standeth onely vpon supposalles and gheasses and therefore needeth no further proufe VVhy soulde yee so trifle with the simple This is the Issue