and ordination of Ministers and of theyr disagreement about the same Cap. 16. fol. 183. Of theyr Aldermens ioynt-office with the ministers in binding loosing of sins of their disagreemēt therin C. 17. f. 190 Of the first institution of the old Deacons and of the disagreemēt about the new disciplinary Deacons Cap. 18. fol. 198 Of certayne Widdows which are made Church-officers of the disagreement which is about them Cap. 19. fol. 215. Of the charge to bee imposed vppon euery parish by meanes of the pretended Eldership Cap. 20. fol. 227. Of theyr desire that those thinges which haue beene taken by Sacriledge from the Church might bee restored againe to the mayntenance of theyr Elderships Cap. 21. fol. 233 They take from Christian Princes and ascribe to theyr pretended regiment the supreme and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes Ecclesiasticall Cap. 22. fol. 250. In the oppugning of Princes authoritye in causes Ecclesiasticall they ioyne with the Papists Cap. 23. fol. 258. Their disagreement in suppressing the authoritie of princes in church-church-causes in the aduancing of their own C. 24. f. 268 In what causes more particularly theyr Elderships are to deale as they pretend Cap. 25. fol. 281. Those things they reprooue as vnlawfull in others they allow in themselues Cap. 26. fol. 298 How they deale with the auncient Fathers Ecclesiasticall Histories and generall Councels when they are alledged against them Cap. 27. fol. 329. Theyr dealing with all the new writers and manye reformed churches when they make against them Cap. 28. fol. 354. Howe they depend vppon theyr owne Synodes and fauourers Cap. 29. fol. 364. How falsely they alledge the auncient fathers for their pretended parish-Bishops and Elders Cap. 30. fol. 381. How and with what disagreement they wrest and misconstrue the Scriptures in the behalfe of theyr discipline C. 31. f. 396. What account the solliciters for this pretended gouernement doe make each of other Cap. 32. fol. 416. Of the prayse disprayse of this pretended regiment C. 33. f. 421 Of theyr disagreement concerning the necessitie of the Consistoriall gouernement Cap. 34. fol. 436. Of the pretended commoditie that the Elderships would bringe with them and of the small fruites that they bringe foorth where they are Cap. 35. fol. 450. FINIS CHAP. I. Howe vnder pretence of the Prophetes loue to Syon some men would gladly set vp their owne fancies THe holy Prophet Esay foreseeing the miserable captiuitie which the Iews for their transgressions were to sustaine vnder the kinges of Babell did thinke it necessary to prepare their heartes to patience by assuring them that the Lord in his due time would worke their ioyfull and happy deliuerance To the which purpose amongst many other most notable perswasions prophecies he vseth these wordes for Syons sake I will not hold my peace and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes therof breake forth as the light and saluation therof as a burning lampe that is donec erigam piorum animos spe futurae salutis c vntill I may confirme the minds of the godly saith Caluin with the hope of their restitution againe so as they may vnderstand and be fully perswaded that God will be the deliuerer of his Church The false Prophet H.N. the moste illuminated father of the family of loue counterfaiting the imitation of the Prophet of God in this place doth take vppon him to tell the world of a farre greater captiuitie not of 70. yeares but of more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares that is euer since the Apostles times Wherein saith he darkenes of error hath ouershadowed the earth lumen vitae incognitum factum est the light of life hath been made vnknowen and the trueth hath been hid as vnder the maske of Popery vntill this day of loue He turneth the whole doctrine of our saluation into a vaine mysterie an allegoricall conceit of his own leauing the Church no mediator at all besides himselfe He hath framed a platforme or new kingdome and gospell of his owne inuention bearing this title Euangelium regni dei the gospell of the kingdome of God Into this kingdome as Vicegerentes he hath brought for our ministers his seniores sanctae intelligentiae Elders of the holy vnderstanding patres familiae Christi fathers of the family of Christ and for our Archbishops and Bishops his Primates or principall Elders his seniores parentes Elder fathers and I know not how many illuminated and deified gouernours And perseuering in these and in many other such like very grosse fond imaginations he lewdly presumeth to apply the said place of the Prophet to himselfe and his owne conceites for the better animating of his followers to sticke fast vnto him saying O Syon tua causa non silebo c O Syon for thy sake I will not hold my peace and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes thereof breake forth as the light saluation thereof as a burning lampe that is in effect vntill the holy gouernment of the family of loue bee established vppon the earth T.C. a man I confesse not to be sorted with H.N. were it not vpon this occasion wil needs take vpō him likewise the person of the Prophet and to aduertise vs of a wonderfull seruitude that hath continued in the Church of God in effect with H.N. from the apostles times also which yet remaineth as he saith in the church of England From the which seruitude he reckoneth that it shall neuer be deliuered vntill it submit it selfe to be newly reformed again by the aduise of his deepe vnderstanding assisted with those that diligently wait vpon his illuminated deuises after the maner of Geneua To winne himselfe therefore the better credite for bringing this to passe hee laieth about him and would haue al things turned topsie turuie as they say euen the vpside downe Our ministery their callings our seruice our sacraments and all we haue is out of ioint Councels fathers histories they are but dishcloutes with him he shaketh them off as it were with a shrugge they are indeed as after it shal appeare no body in his handes but he flingeth them here and there at his pleasure He in like sorte with the assistance of his partakers hath framed after the fashion of Geneua a platforme and newe kingdome or rather an infinite number of litle petite kingdomes but yet euery one of them of an absolute power aswell ouer Lordes Earles Dukes Princes Kinges and Kingdomes as ouer the meanest whosoeuer vnder them This kingdome he would impose vpon this land Wherein for our Archbishops Bishops ministers c hee placeth his graund Elders whome he tearmeth pastors his second sort of Elders whome he tearmeth Doctors his third sorte of Elders whome he tearmeth Gouernors ioyning vnto them Deacons to carry their purses and widdows to wash their feete where neede shall require And with this deuise he is so possessed that hee
death were when they dyed in the same case that Crete was when Titus was sent thither and had therefore as much neede of a Titus as euer Crete had Furthermore who can bee accompted to be well in his wittes that will imagine that Christ should ordaine such an authoritie but for some threescore yeares especially the same causes continuing why it was first instituted that were before Nay I may boldly say that there was greater neede for the continuance of it afterward For the Apostles hauing so great power to worke myracles and by their praiers to procure from God such straunge executions of his pleasure vpon the contemptuous as did fall vpon Ananias and his wife and I doubt not but in like cases sometimes vpon some others their ruling and commaunding authoritie was not so necessarie then as it was afterwards when that power to worke myracles ceased But what should I neede to vse many wordes in a matter so apparant After the death of the apostles and of their assistants vz the Bishops placed by them as is mentioned the Ecclesiasticall hystories and the auncient fathers haue kept the register of their names that succeeded sundry of them and ruled the Churches after them as they before had ruled them Whereupon they were called from all antiquitie the Apostles and Apostolicall mens successors This inequalitie in the Ministery of the worde hath been approued and honoured by all the auncient fathers none excepted by all the generall Councelles that euer were held in Christendome and by all other men of learning that euer I heard of for many hundred yeares after the Apostles time sauing that Aerius the hereticke an ambitious person growing into great rage for that hee missed of a Bishopricke which he sued for first broached the opinion which is nowe so currant amongest his Schollers that there ought to bee no difference betweene a Bishoppe and a Priest Whereby he tooke vppon him to be equall with the Byshop that preuailed in the said suite against him chalenged to haue as great authoritie he being but a Priest as the other had being a Bishop In this latter age of the worlde when after a long darkenesse it pleased almightie God to restore vnto vs the light of his Gospell the chiefe instruments that God then vsed and adorned with most singular giftes for such a mightie worke were very farre from that conceite â—and rashe presumption which afterwardes possessed certaine persons of Aerius humour and yet doth boyle in many of theyr followers breastes It is true that many thinges are to bee found in their writings which at the first shew do make very greatly against Bishops But diuerse persons in these dayes not well considering the circumstances of those times doe greatly abuse the world in extending them further then they meant them It was farre from their intent that those thinges which they had written against Popish Bishops the ennemies of the Gospell should euer haue bene vrged against such Bishops as did willingly embrace it I will acquaint you a little with the proceedings of those times and then leaue this point to your wise consideration When the said learned men beganne to seeke the reformation of Religion in Germany it is not vnknowen vnto you into what subiection the Pope had brought all Christian Princes and states The Bishops as his vassals did then wholly depend vppon him They held their Bishoprickes by his authoritie and nothing coulde be done especially in Church matters but by the Pope and them So as when Luther and the rest beganne to disclose the enormities of Popery and desired some godly reformation of them you may easily conceiue the Pope and his Bishops being the chiefe maintainers of that corruption what little incouragement they found at their handes It is euident in their writinges howe earnestly and humbly at the first they dealth both with the Pope and with many other of the chiefest Bishops that they would be content and pleased to reforme such thinges as they found to bee amisse in the Church But all their indeuours to that purpose were in vain The Pope and his Clergy stood too much vpon their reputation If they should haue yealded they imagined the world would haue condemned them in that they had not in time of themselues preuented or redressed so notable abuses Whereupon Luther those learned men that ioyned with him were driuen to flie vnto the Ciuil magistrates to aduertise them of their dueties prouing it vnto them most plentifully out of the scriptures that in such an obstinate defection amongst the priests it appertained vnto theÌ„ euery one within their owne free states and territories to reforme religion themselues as the godly kings in the old testameÌ„t had done in the like cases And the rather to moue them thereunto they laboured by al the means they could to make the Popish Clergy most odious vnto them They inueighed against their pride against their superfluities against their tyranny and against their corruptions After much paines taking to these and the like effectes it pleased God to moue the hearts of many of the ciuile magistrates to thinke better of their duties plainly to perceiue how the Pope and his Bishops had formerly abused them The godly kings and magistrates in the scriptures wheÌ„ they reformed religion were euer most carefull that the liuinges appointed by God for the Priests might be throughly preserued If any by abuse had bin alienated they caused them to be restored againe And so I suppose the ciuile magistrates should haue done in this latter age But it hath faln out otherwise and all the other godly learned men in christendome do mislike it The perswasions to Princes that the Bishops and Abbots had too much was very plausible The free Cities notwithstanding their freedom in respect of the Emperor yet they were subiect all of them vnto Bishops were not discontented that so good an occasion was offred vnto theÌ„ to procure their greater liberty Luther and the rest of those learned men regarding nothing but that the light of the gospel might be restored were content to yeald much to beare against their minds with many vnequall conditions So as at the last by their wisdome and diligence they preuailed God moued the hearts of diuers ciuile magistrates to begin a reformation The Pope the Bishops and the chiefest of the Cleargy impugned it by all the meanes they could possibly Whereupon there being no other remedie their authoritie imployed to hinder those proceedinges was reiected and the most of their liuings which they had in any of those territories were seazed into the hands of the ciuile gouernors there vpon these many such like occasions great trobles did arise The bishops thoght theÌ„selues greatly iniuried Diuers great princes took their parts so did the Emperor They misliked the reformatioÌ„ which was proceeded in after that sort the authoritye of Bb s. was greatly insisted vpon Insomuch as notwithstaÌ„ding that the sayd learned
in their printed Supplication against all the new Iulianistes and Atheists mentioned CHAP. XXII They take from Christian Princes and ascribe to their pretended regiment the supreme and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes Ecclesiasticall IN the beginning of the reformation of Religion in Germany the learned men there opposing themselues verie mightely against the Popes vsurped iurisdiction did verie learnedly and soundlie shew and proue to their aduersaries the soueraigne authority of Christian Kinges and Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall within their owne dominions and countries Which authoritie vppon the banishment of the Pope as well there as after also in England was both there and here vnited by diuerse laws vnto the interest of their Crowns and to the lawfull right of ciuile regiment This doctrine since that time hath beene so very throughly maintained by sundrie notable men as Brentius against Asoto Bishop Horne against Fecknam Bishop Iuell against Harding and many other learned men against such other Papistes as haue taken vppon them to impugne it that I am perswaded had it not beene that newe aduersaries did rise opposed themselues in the matter the Papists before this time had beene vtterlie subdued For either vppon the attempt in Geneua for the erecting of the Consistorian gouernment which cannot endure any superior authority ouer it in causes Ecclesiasticall when Caluin and Viretus were banished the Citty or else vppon their restitution and after they had preuailed in their said attempt the Ministers there whether in reuenge of their banishment or least their Magistrats should at any time to come giue eare to the aforesaide Doctrine I will not saye but vppon some such occasion they did presentlie thrust themselues into this question that with such spitefull railing and bitternes as though they had conspired with the Pope and his Proctors against al other reformed churches that reiecting their pretended Discipline or new Papacie indeed had submitted themselues vnto the said lawfull authority of Christian Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall And hereof it came to speake the trueth plainelie that Caluin could not abide that King Henrye the eight should bee tearmed the head or supreme gouernour in Earth of the Churches of God within his Dominions And writing to one Myconius how certaine men in Geneua perswaded the Magistrates there Ne potestate quam illis Deus contulisset se abdicaerent that they woulde not depriue themselues of that authoritie which God had giuen them he tearmeth them according to the Consistorian language prophane spirites and mad men whom saith he if we speaking of himselfe and his fellowes shall ioine together to encounter and with a valiant and inuincible zeale fight for that holy authority vz. CoÌ„sistorian c the Lord with the breath of his mouth will destroy The saide Myconius in like sorte reporteth to Caluin from Basill how some in those borders did write to the like purpose in the behalfe of Christian Magistrates alledging the examples of Moises Dauid and other godlye Kinges which saith hee in effect is to make them Popes and then addeth quid si laici huiusmodi argumentis fuerint persuasi what if lay men shall be perswaded by such argumentes Indeede that will cutte the throate of all your soueraigntie But of all others that haue opposed themselues to Christian Princes in this matter besides Martin-Marre-Prelate and some such like companions amongest vs Viretus for rayling scoffing and biting passeth and excelleth Those that stand in defence of the Magistrates authoritie he resembleth to white Diuels and saith They are false Christians though they couer themselues with the cloake of the Gospell and the reformation of the same And againe The Ministers that haue forsaken the Romish Church in seeking to get the Magistrates and peoples fauour against the Pope Priestes and Monkes haue so despised the state of Priestood and Ministery of the Church and so magnified the state of the Magistrate that they now feele the fruict thereof he meaneth that the goods of the Church are thereby gone and wasted Further saith he they thought it a goodby reformation in the Churche to abolishe all the Canons and decrees with the good Statutes which the auncient Fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to maintaine good Discipline in the Church They haue put all into the Magistrates handes and haue made them maisters of the Church which he tearmeth to be nothing else but the changing of the Popedome the taking away of both swordes from the Pope and giuing them to Princes the euerthrowing of a spirituall Pope and setting vppe a temporall Pope which vnder another colour will all come to one end Nay hee taketh vppon him to prooue that these Temporall Popes as hee tearmeth them are more to bee feared if they take roote and will be worse theâ— the Spirituall Popes and that so the olde Popishe â—yr 〈◊〉 is not taken awaie but onely changed and disguised And his reasons are First that the olde Pope had not the Temporall sworde in his own hand to punishe with death but was fayne to praye aide of the secular power which the neâ—e Pope's need not to doe Secondly that the olde Popes had some regarde in their dealinges of Councelles Synodes and aunciente Canons c. but the newe Popes will doe what they list without any Ecclesiasticall order bee it right or wronge Thirdlye because it chaunceth ofte that these newâ— Popes haue neither learning nor knowledge and yet these shall bee they that shall commaund Ministers and Preachers what they list on paine of their sworde and ministerie and shall appoint them lawes touching their estate and ministery and likewise to the whole Church Giue him also the hearing a little further I praie you Who so vseth such meanes to reforme the fault of the Pope doth not reforme the Church but deforme is more then it was before c. This I dare say that I see already in some places that vnder title of reformation by the Gospell some christian Princes haue in ten or twentie yeares vsurped more tyranny ouer the Churches in their Dominions then euer the Pope and his adherentes did in sixe hundred yeares And lastly If there be any Magistrates in these daies which vnder the title of authority and power that God hath giuen them c. will make the Ministers of the Church subiect vnto them as the Pope hath made them subiect to him and his c. the same doe verily set vp a newe Pope changing onely his coate and maske And thus far Viretus in his thirde Dialogue of white Diuels which was not written I feare by the instinct of anie good spirite nor without some euill direction translated into English of purpose to seede the seditious fier that our turbulent Copper-smiths following this Dâ—sciplinarie tract haue kindled alreadie amongest vs. I haue omitted his earnestnes in the behalfe of his own and Caluins Discipline that the authority thus denied to Princes might be yeelded to them and
their followers and that all men both Princes and others would be content to submitte their neckes vnder that yoke Which were to make Princes saith Erastus trulie quasi carniâ—ices as it were the executioners onely of their pleasures quemadmâ—dunâ— in Papatu factum videmus as we see it practised in the Papacy and in truth is nothing els but that I may vse their phrases to banish one Pope and admitte of thousands or to deliuer their Scepters from the tyrannie of the old Pope and to subiect them to the tyranny of these new Popes euen to excommunication as Cartwright with his English crue doe affirme and so consequently to depriuation or death as Buchanan the Scottishe Consistorian teacheth My purpose is only in this place to make it knowne from whence our brotherhood haue furnished themselues with their inuectiues against the authoritye of Princes in causes ecclesiasticall and that whatsoeuer they pretend in words yet they are of the same minde that Viretus is if they durst so plainly vtter it Or if they be not let them confes in print that the premisses cited out of his sayde dialogue are false and then for that pointe let them be credited But that I am perswaded they will neuer doe I am sure if they should that besides their opposition with Geneua they should also recant their owne assertions which directly exclude the ciuile magistrates from dealing in ecclesiasticall causes As for example The whole gouernment of the Church is to be committed to Ministers Elders Deacons The church is now to the worldes end to haue no other offices in it but of pastors Doctors Elders and Deacons They which are no Elders of the Church haue nothing to doe in the gouernment of the same They deuide the Church wherein anye Magistrate King or Emperor is a member into those which are to gouerne vz. Pastors Doctors and Elders and into such as are to obey vz. magistrates of all sortes the people Indeed Beza will haue the ciuile magistrate one of the Church-officers But Cartwright will not consent for his part to yeald them so much For saith he as Pastors cannot bee officers of the common wealth no more can the magistrate bee called properlye a church-officer And in truth what Beza graunteth it is in effect nothing sauing for a shew and to serue their own turnes forsooth vt tranquillitatem ecclesiae procurent â—t tueantur Their office is to procure and defend the peace of the Church whereas else where hee agreeth with Viretus yee may bee sure and in his Booke against Erastus peremptorily affirmeth That Princes haue no more to doe with matters of the Church then Ministers haue with the affayres of the common wealth Which by their doctrine generallie is none at all But saide I hee agreeth with Viretus I might saie rather with Cardinall Allen and Saunders if he bee the author of the Booke intituled Vindicie contra Tyrannos as it was reported For there hee saith that if anie Prince shall challenge to himselfe both Tributes that is authoritie aswell in Ecclesiasticall causes as ciuile as by the circumstances of the place it is euident hee doth as if hee would like the old Giaunts scale heauen and surprise it and is guiltie of treason and doth thereby forfeite his fee that hee holdeth no lesse than a subiect or vassall shall that vsurpeth the kinges royaltyes and in this respect such kinges are very often depriued thereof much more iustlye then a vassall or subiecte maye bee insomuch as there is some proportion of comparison betwixte a vassall or subiect and his Lorde but betwixt God and the king betwixt a wretched man and the Almightie there can bee no proportion at all Furthermore Cartwright and some others with him do affirme that Kings and princes do holde their kingdomes and dominions vnder Christ as hee is the sonne of God onlye before all worldes coequall with the father and not as hee is mediator the heade and gouernor of the Church Whereuppon they doe first builde that all Kinges aswell heathen as Christian receiuing but one commission and equall authoritie immediately from God haue no more to doe with the Church the one sorte then the other as being in no respect deputed for Church officers vnder Christ otherwise then if they bee good Kinges to maintaine and defende it And secondlye that as God hath appoynted all Kinges and Ciuile Magistrates his immediate Lieutenants for the gouernment of the worlde in temporall causes so Christ as hee is mediator and gouernour of his Church hath his immediate officers to rule in the Church vnder him and those they saie are no other then Pastors Doctors and Elders to whom they ascribe as large authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall And all this as I take it they haue learned of the Papists For whereas maister Harding saith that the office of a King in it selfe is all one euerie where not onely amongst the Christian Princes but also amonge the Heathen and thereuppon concludeth that a christian Prince hath no more to doe in the deciding of church-matters or in making ceremonies and orders for the Church then a Heathen Cartwright alloweth of his iudgement and doth expresly affirme that hee himselfe is of the same opinion professing his mislike of those who teach another right of a Christian and of a prophane magistrate Whereat Trauerse his scholler aymeth in like sorte when hee saith in effect that heathen princes being conuerted to the fayth receiue no further increase of theyr power whereby they maye deale in causes ecclesiasticall then they had before And lastly it is no lesse agreeable vnto their seconde assertion that whereas the Papists saye the Pope with his Cardinalls and Bishops are a true representation of the Catholicke Church of Christ vnder whom the Pope being Peters supposed Successor is the ministeriall and immediate chiefe gouernour of it here vppon earth now Cartwright and others doe affirme that euerye particular parish hauing such an Eldershippe in it as they desire is a liuelye patterne and representation of the whole and catholicke Church of Christe vnder whom saye they their Pastors Doctors and Elders are the ministeriall and immediate gouernours by right of euery such Catholicke parish-Church vppon earth And thus if I bee not deceiued that playnelye appeareth which was in the beginning of this Chapter propounded vz. that for all their protestations they derogate from Christian Princes and arrogate to their Elderships the supreame and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes ecclesiasticall CHAP. XXIII In the oppugning of Princes authoritye in causes Ecclesiasticall they ioyne with the Papists THere is nothing will lightlye anger our pretended Brotherhood more then if ti be tolde them that they denie in effect with the common aduersaries her Maisties lawefull stile and prerogatiue Royall in causes ecclesiasticall Oâ— saye they wee doe not wee are slaundered wee yealde vnto her Highnes
hands the carefull charge or procuration of Churches as pertaining to their dutie Good Kings and Princes do maintain true religion and by the aduise of their priests vvhen any great defections happen do pull dovvn the false And where Cartvvright doth charge the Papists to constraine their Princes for the keeping of their decrees be they good or bad although it be true in deed that they do so and that those of his owne stampe likewise vvhere they raigne are nothing more fauourable vnto them as farre as their might will reach yet as he doth in this matter prefer himselfe and his adherents before them it is but a meere cauil For the Papists holding this ground that their Councels and Popes in such their decrees and conclusions as it pleaseth them to make cannot erre that being graunted it followeth of necessitie that euery Christian Prince ought to put them in execution and to punish those that shall oppose themselues against them So that vvhatsoeuer they do impose vpon the Church they affirme it is good euen as Cartvvright doth his discipline which he would intrude vpon vs both of them ioining in this point that as wel Cartvvrights new ministery as the popes priesthood will be the iudges of their owne decrees whether they be good or bad and then what leaue they to the Christian magistrat more the one sort then the other Surely this wall riseth very slowly as yet but peraduenture the third part will be higher thē the other two when you haue viewed them iudge Our meaning is not sayth Cartvvright vtterly to seclude the magistrat out of our church-meetings for often times a simple man as the prouerbe sayth the Gardiner hath spoken to good purpose c. He may be assistant and haue his voice in such assemblies Out of question you deale very bountifully with your soueraign But to helpe him in building this part of his wall I will set downe what is the vttermost that he yeeldeth to herein if hee haue not retracted the same as afterward it shall be considered The Prince may call a councell of the ministerie and appoint both the time and the houres for the same The ciuile magistrat is not vtterly to be excluded from such assemblies as do meet for the deciding of church-causes and orders he may be there assistant and haue his voice but he may not be either moderator there nor determiner nor iudge Neither may the orders or decrees there made be sayd to haue bene done by the Princes authoritie And therefore in times past the cannons of councels vvere not called the Emperors but the Bishops decrees Princes may be assistant in councels and ought to defend the same assembled if any behaue themselues there tumultuously or othervvise disorderly the Prince may punish him The Prince ought to confirme the decrees of such councels to see the decrees executed and to punish the contemners of them Thus hereof Cartvvright and now come in the papists It vvas lavvfull in times past for emperors to call councels to appoint both time and place for the same And maister Harding confesseth that princes may do so still by the aduise of the clergie Princes and their embassadors according to their estates haue most honourable seats in all councels may sit there as assistants giue their aduises make exhortations to the Bishops to be very circumspect and carefull and in the end may subscribe vvith them to the causes there decreed But they may not sit there as iudges moderators or determiners and therfore in their subscriptions they vvrōt not as bishops did definientes subscripsimus but consentientes Neither vvere the councels called Imperatoria but Episcopalia Princes may be assistant in councels Nay sayth Saunders they may be presidents ouer Bishops in councels ad pacem concordiam retinendam vt nullum fieri tumultum permittant tumultuantem vero custodiae mancipent and cause such assemblies to auoid all delaies All Christian princes ought to confirme the decrees of generall councels to see the decrees executed and to punish the contemners of them Compare these places with Cartvvrights words and tell me what great difference ye find betweene them But what if Cartvvright as I sayd haue retracted these points then it must needs be confessed that the Papists do yeeld more to Christian princes in causes ecclesiastical then the puritans CHAP. XXIIII Their disagreement in suppressing the authoritie of Princes in church-church-causes and in the aduancing of their ovvn IT appeareth in the latter end of the two and twentith chapter how by a fine distinction of raigning vnder Christ as he is onely God and vnder Christ as he is mediator they first would exclude all Christian princes from their lawfull authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall ascribing no more vnto them then as if they were heathens except it be to execute their pleasures and to maintaine them which they say is the dutie also of all the heathen rulers and secondly how by the same distinctiō they lift vp their own horns as if it were so many popes challenging euery one of them together with their elderships to be Christs immediat vicars for church-causes vpon earth In the substance of which doctrine although they do all agree yet when they come to the particular grounds whervpō they would gladly lay their foundations of it there they are distracted and do confound themselues I meane not to enter here any further into this matter then as cōcerning the sayd distinction with the seuerall branches thereof Cartvvright bestoweth soure leaues to prooue that no ciuile magistrat may be called the head of the particular church within his dominion And his cheefest reasons are drawn from the parts of the distinction mentioned Now when he laboureth so much vpon this word head hee knoweth that we meane thereby nothing els but a chiefe authoritie and he wrangleth of purpose that whereas his opinion is direct that no ciuile magistrat as he is a ciuile magistrat hath any office in the Church he might dazle the eies of his reader as though he could bee content to maintaine the right of the crowne and did only insist vpon the word head But to muster them together about the said distinction Cartvvright sayth that our Sauiour Christ as hee is the sonne of God only or as he is onely the Creator and preseruer of mankind coequall vvith his father he is the gouernour of kingdoms and common-vvealths and not as hee is the sauiour and redeemer of mankind But the humble motioner doth tell vs from Scotland another tale peraduenture vpon the credit of the brethren there Christ sayth he hath all povver and superioritie aboue all principalities either in heauen or in earth he is Lord of lords and King of kings and the Prince of kings in the earth he is Lord of all kingdoms and common-vvealths to dispose and rule them at his pleasure
orders to this poynte in the newly subscribed booke of discipline Plurium sententiae verbo Dei consentaneae singulares omnes eius cansilij conuentus ecclesiae parere debent All Churches must obey the sentence of the greater part of that Councellor assembly vnder whose direction they are the same being agreeable to the worde of God And agayne It is made a part of theyr Aldermens office to see Vt quae à conuentibus piè decreta retulerint à ciuibus suis earum ecclesiarum studiosè obseruentur that those godly decrees which they shall bring from the assemblyes bee diligently obserued of theyr Cittizens of those Churches Lastly Conuentus sententia rata habeatur donec à conuentu maior is authoritatis secus iudicatum puerit Let the sentence of euery assembly bee ratified vntill it shall be otherwise iudged-of by an assembly of greater authoritie As a classicall to bee ouerruled by a prouinciall a prouinciall by a nationall a nationall by a generall And thus they write of theyr owne orders and assemblyes Which rules take them altogether as they lye if they bee true as I doe not greatly dislike them being well applyed then do these busie bodies among vs sin most directly against theyr own consciences in that they oppose themselues as they do against those things which the greater part of the national Sinode high court of parliament of this Realme hath allowed of beeing most agreeable to the worde of God before some generall Councell or assembly of more authoritie haue iudged otherwise and determined for the course that they haue proceeded in Generall Councell I am sure they haue none And for any other assembly that hath beene held and should haue greater authoritie in England than the nationall Synode of all our owne Churches and the high Court of Parliament let them name it In their writinges generally they exclayme against the high Commission or at the least against the Commissioners as many of them as bee clergie men affirming it to bee against the worde of God that any such should bee of that Commission And yet in Scotland it was agreeable with the Scriptures that fortie or fiftie at the least Ministers of the worde as I conceyue it shoulde bee verie great Commissioners from the King Anno 1589. to very manie great purposes euen for the purging of that lande from all sortes of enemies to the religion there professed Likewise earnest suite is made in the Supplication before mentioned to her Maiestie and found in Fields study that the foresaid foure twentie Doctors that should bee of the Parliament house might be likewise generall Commissioners vnder the great scale of England or the more part of them to beare and determine all and euery secte errour heresie contempt default and misdemeanour agaynst the worde of God and her Maiesties lawes of reformation of religion to depriue any Pastour not dooing or neglecting his duetie to examine witnesses and to imprison the bodyes of all such malefactors and to certifie their names to the Lordes of her Maiesties Councell that they may receiue further condigne punishment Besides there bee some that resemble the high Commission nowe in force vnto the authoritie which they challenge to theyr seuerall Elderships Whereupon one of them acquainted I doubt not with the desires of the rest sayth That if the high Commission were setled in fiue hundred places more than it is and shoulde gouerne by the worde of God and lawes of this Realme there would rise more profit thereby to religion than yet hath beene found by the Bishops He would haue it in fiue hundreth places Scotland is diuided into two and fiftie Eldershippes and of likelyhood they would haue fiue hundred in England And that as I take it is the mystery of his number of fiue hundred To conclude I finde another motion which liketh wel that if there were fiue hundred Elderships more or fewer established yet there might be in euery great Towne certaine Commissioners in causes ecclesiasticall appoynted to looke that the Elderships did their dueties if they did not to compel them therunto by ciuill authority So as therby it appeareth that although our Bishops other Clergie men may not be such Commissioners with vs in some few places yet their Pastors Doctors Aldermen may in euery parish or so many of them or I knowe not whom as it should please her Maiestie to assigne to euery greate Towne Surely the worde of God is much troubled with such kinde of choppers and chaungers of it euery giddy heade wresting and wringing it to serue his owne deuise Wee shoulde haue Commissions to thatch houses withall I see if they might be our directors They are offended with the authoritie that her Maiestie dooth giue vnto her Commissioners for causes ecclesiasticall as beeing vnlawfull in that by vertue of that commission they may sende sometimes for offendors to appeare before them by purseuants and commit them to prison as occasion shal fall out and theyr faultes misdemeanors and contempts shall require But at Geneua the like authoritie in effecte is lawfull in their Eldership For there the Consistorie hath a Beadle sergeant or purseuant or as you lift to tearme him appoynted by the ciuill Magistrates to attende vppon it whose office is to call such before the Consistorie as the Aldermen shall appoynt him And for imprisoning of any offendors and contemptuous persons there is notany matter almost for the which they may call a man before them but one parte of the punishment of it by the lawes of the Cittie is imprisonment As if any when hee appeareth in the Consistorie or els where be so hardie as but to speake euill of any of the Ministers or misname them he is to be imprisoned Besides as I haue noted it before theyr Elders are alwayes of the Councell of state and seldome or neuer but they will bee sure to haue one of the foure Syndickes to bee of that bench So as together they raigne lyke Lordes in theyr Consistorie and who dare say My Lordes why doe you so If they direct imprisonment is but a small matter I speake not agaynst that order there let them vse it as they thinke good Only I see not why the worde of God should bee so bountifull to them and is so sparing to vs. In that by the orders of our Church and the laws of the Realme there is required of Ministers a subscription to her Maiesties lawfull authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes to the Articles of Religion and to the Communion booke c. greate quarrels haue beene raysed and many exceptions are taken against it Insomuch as one a wise man I warraunt you dooth ascribe all the daungers that haue beene complotted against her Maiesties person by the traitrous Papistes the dearth of corne the cause that we haue had such watching and warding by souldiers and lastly that the Spanyards would haue inuaded this land
therefore we confesse that their subiectes ought to obey their ciuile commaundements which may be kept without the breach of Gods law and that not onely for feare but also for conscience sake Thus farre Zanchius whose iudgement in this pointe will be esteemed of I suppose hereafter when all that either is or can be sayd by any man to the contrary will fall to the ground or vanish like smoake If it be saide that Zanchius writeth truely but that my allegation of his wordes is altogether impertinent for that the Bishops of Geneua had neuer any setled right in the ciuile gouernement of that citty I am not the man that will either iustify mine owne discretion or impugne any thinge which may bee brought for the ciuile proceedinges of that state or of any other so as they carry no false groundes of Diuinity with them which may prooue daungerous vnto our owne such as haue bene since published for the authorizing of subiectes in many cases to depose their Princes Christ refused to be a deuider of priuate mens inheritances and then surely it doth not become me to be a decider of any titles to countries citties or kingdomes I pray for all and will not further meddle with any Now it remaineth that hauing made relation vnto you of the premises as you haue heard I should also acquaint you more particularly with the alteration that was made at Geneua in the order and forme of the gouernemente of the Church Wherein you shall finde some greater variety both of actions and pollicy M. Beza speaking of the reformation of religion in that citty sayth that Christes Gospell was established there mirabiliter wonderously A wonder the common saying is doth last but nine dayes but that wonderfull course which he speaketh of will not bee forgotten I suppose in hast As you haue heard that the Bishop of Geneua was dealt withall for the principality of that City so was he vsed as touching his Bishopricke The Ministers cryed out that his Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction was as vnlawfull as his ciuile Wherevpon the Bishopricke was dissolued and that forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement vtterly abolished whereby that citty had bene ruled in Church-causes from the time that first it receiued the profession of christianity Together with the ouerthrow of which Bishopricke all the orders constitution and lawes of the Church which had beene in framing by all the learned men in christendome euer since the Apostles times were at one stroake quite chopte of and wholy abrogated vnder pretence forsooth of the name of cannon lawes the popes lawes and I wot not what Wherein the ministers dealt as wisely in mine opinion as if some king succeeding fower or fiue of his predecessors whome he hated should therevpon ouerthrow all the lawes that eyther they or any other of his predecessors had euer made before him Maister Caluin being charged by some as it seemeth with the rashnesse which was vsed at Geneua in this point doth excuse it thus in effect vz. that they deale therein as men doe with rotten houses they ouerthrewe all the whole forme of ecclesiasticall building as once as it were into a rude heape out of the which they might the better make choyse and take of that olde stuffe as much as liked them to build withall againe afterward Indeede there are many builders in these dayes of such a kinde of humor Nothing will content them but that they build themselues And therein also they are very inconstant Now this must downe now that must vppe now this must bee chaunged and that must bee enlarged here the workemen mistooke me this is not in good proportion away with it I will haue this square chaunged into a rounde and this rounde altered into a square A fitter metaphore could not well haue beene found to haue shewed the vnstayed minds of such manner of reformers But to proceed The auncient forme of ecclesiasticall gouernement with all the Elders thereof being thus ouerturned as the citezens in the framing of their newe ciuill gouernement had an especiall eye to the manner of the ciuill gouernement of their neighbour citties and states adioyning so had both the magistrates and the ministers at the first also great regard of the ecclesiasticall pollicy in the same citties relying principally vppon their forme of Church-gouernement and vppon their orders and ceremonyes in that behalfe prouided But this Church Modell was also shortly after wholy misliked For the ministers perceiued that as they thought the ciuill magistrats had too great authorie giuen vnto them in church-church-causes that they themselues had a great deale too little Maister Caluin speaking of this manner of reformation calleth it but a correcting of the Church And Beza yeeldeth a reason why Farellus Viretus contented thēselues with such a simple Church-gouernement vz. in effecte to my vnderstanding not that they were ignorant what insufficiency there was in it but because in such a hurly burly and great chaunge of things they could haue no better and afterwardes when they woulde faine haue bettered themselues the rest of the ministers that should haue ioyned with them therein were fearefull to attempt so soone any new alteration The same yeare that Geneua was assaulted vz. 1 5 3 6. Maister Caluin came thether and was there admitted non concionator tantum hoc enim primum recusarat sed etiam sacrarum liter arum doctor not onely for their preacher for he had refused that before but also for a doctor of the holy scriptures In which place hee was scarcely warme when like a man of courage reiecting all feare hee tooke in hand to frame a new platforme for the gouernement of that Church or as Maister Bezaes word is ecclesiam componere to compound the Church being of likelyhood before in his opinion tanquam dissoluta scopa as a dissolute Chaos and vndigested bundell And in very short time hee did so farre prouaile therein as that hee caused the cittizens being assembled together to abiure their former popish gouernement as they termed it by Bishops and to sweare to a certaine draught of discipline paucis capitibus comprehensam comprehended as Beza saith vnder a fewe heades What the forme of this draught was I finde it not any where mentioned But whatsoeuer it was it appeareth that both he Farellus and Viretus so vsed themselues in the administration of it as that the rest of the ministers and the chiefest of the cittie grew quickly very weary of it For through their rough dealing in diuers pointes especially in opposing themselues against the orders of Berne before that time receiued there and particularly for their obstinate refusing to administer the Lordes supper with vnleauened bread according to a resolution giuen to that effecte by a Synode at Lausanna of the ministers of Berne which resolution since Beza calleth iniquissimum decretum for these and such like causes I say they were al three of them within nine monethes after
their setting vppe of their short plat of discipline bannished the cittie The causes before mentioned of this their bannishment were giuen out thus in generall termes Tyranni esse voluerunt in liberam ciuitatem voluerunt nouum pontificatum reuocare They would haue beene tyrants ouer a free cittie they would haue recalled a new papacy And here beganne the Consistorian humor which raigneth nowe amongst the factious sorte in England to shew it selfe but yet in a more secrete sorte by their priuate letters one to an other Their fauourers and partakers whome they lefte behinde them at Geneua presently after their departure entered into faction and refused to receiue the communion with vnleauened bread as it had beene ordered they should doe by the said Synode at Lausanna The ministers that remained in the cittie after them were greatly disgraced For in that they continued their ministery there without the newe Discipline they were said to hold otiosam functionem an idle function The Senate of two hundred that expelled the said three preachers was termed by Caluin tumultuos a perditorum hominum factio a tumultuoas faction of rakehells castaway es Beza saith that in that councell the greater part ouercame the better But then by the way they were not all of them such manner of men as Caluin reporteth The chiefest magistrates of the cittie euen the Syndickes were termed factionum et discordiarum duces the ringleaders of factions and dissentions They were resembled to Nabucadnezar and the exiles to Daniell And generally they gaue it out against all their backe frendes that they went about to ouerthrowe the Church and that they had obdurated themselues against the Lord Iesus Christ. These and such like speaches you must thinke were giuen out then secretly but since they are published in printe for other ministers instructions which may hereafter receiue any checke about that kinde of discipline Hetherto for ought I finde the pretended discipline had no great successe I must therfore proceede on forward These three preachers being thus banished their friendes at Geneua were maruailous earnest to haue them thither againe Many letters were procured from certaine churches and learned men to the magistrates in that behalfe as you shall partly perceaue by diuerse epistles set out vnder the title or together with Caluins epistles Euery one likewise in the Cittie that held for the discipline did his best with the people But Maister Caluin was the man whom they all of them most desired for the rest being else where placed they cared not much Vnto these endeuours may be added some very wise courses taken by Maister Caluin in the time that he discontinued from Geneua Cardinall Sadolet hauing written to the Geneuians in dislike of the alteration both of their state and of the Romish religion admonishing them to returne to their olde byace Maister Caluin aunswered him and iustified as he thought meete their proceedinges therein to their very good contentment Also where some that of his owne friends had greatly laboured to discredite the ministers of that cittie which were lefte to the griefe of the magistrates endeuoured to haue brought them vtterly into contempt for executing their ministerie without the pretended Discipline c. Maister Caluin staied that course by writing vnto them that he doubted not but that their ministers deliuered vnto them the chiefe heads of Christian religion which were necessary to saluation and that also they ioyned thereunto the right vse of the Sacramentes And then saith he where those two pointes are performed illic substantia ministery viget there is the substance of the ministerie and a lawfull honour and obedience is to be giuen to that Ministery Lastly the mutinie mentioned which was about refusall to communicate with vnleauened bread he likewise appeased by perswading the authours of it that it was a matter of indifferencie for the which they ought not to disquiet the peace of the Church By which occasions together with the former sutes mentioned the Citie as I iudge hauing conceaued a better opinion of maister Caluin then they had before and supposing that if he came againe amongst them he would vse a great deale more mildnesse and moderation in his proceedinges then hee had earst done they were at the last contented after two yeares bannishment and more to recall him vnto them vz in the yeare 1541. Whilest his friendes were labouring for him as you haue heard he himselfe perceiuing that hee shoulde returne thither was still harping to his friendes vppon this string how he might haue the Citie so bound to the forme of Discipline which he had in his head as that afterwardes they might not when they list start from it And therefore as soone as he was come thither hee imployed his studie that way especially At the first offering of his paines to the Senate he told him that the Church there could not possibly continue except there were same certaine forme of Church gouernement established Whereupon the Senate ordered at his request that he and fiue other of the Ministers should conferre together about such a forme as they thought meet and that hauing so done they should offer the same to the consideration of the said Senate Here then you shall see the strength of maister Caluins wit He wisely saw that notwithstanding the Bishops ecclesiasticall authoritie had been vtterly disgraced and was thereupon reiected as being forsooth Popish and tyrannicall yet it was not good for the Church that the ministers should bate the citie one ace of an ecclesiasticall authoritie aequiualent at the least to that which their Bishops formerly had enioyed amongest them Howbeit he well perceiued withall that for the bringing of this matter about there must be verie good pollicie and circumspection vsed or else that it would be a thing impossible to bring a people hauing gotten their libertie into the like or a worse seruitude then they were in before His plot therefore as I take it was as followeth He laboured to perswade the people and the Magistrates that as there was a ciuile Senate for the gouernement of the Citie and the territories thereof in ciuile causes so by the word of God there should be an ecclesiasticall Senate for the gouernment of the same Citie and territories conteining aboue twentie parishes in causes ecclesiasticall And to this purpose he wanted not I warrant you very many probable reasons The persons that should beare authoritie in this Senate I nothing doubt but that he could haue been very well contented they should haue been all of them ministers euen as the ciuile gouernment did then wholly consist of ciuile persons But by reason of the great authoritie that the preachers had before intituled the ciuile magistrates vnto for the bannishment of their Bishop for their dealing in Church causes wherewithall they were in some sorte possessed hee very wisely considered with Farellus and Viretus that if they tooke that course
great hatred and malice Insomuch as writing to his friendes he complayneth in this manner We haue too many of a hard and vntamed necke who vpon euery occasion do endeuour to shake off the yoake that by their tumultes they mighte abolish the lawfull order of the Church There are in that nomber both olde men and young men The youth especially is here most desperate And to Viretus Nisi dominus c. except the Lorde doe rebuke the sea and the windes I see there are greate stormes toward vs which they mooue who ought rather to appease them I dare not call you hether for many causes The chiefest is for that I am afrayd how at the length we must giue place vnto them who will neuer end vntill they haue ouerthrowne all Likewise to the same Viretus Many are such children that they are affrayde at the ridiculous shaking of a head c. Si desistam totum consistorium ruat necesse est if I desist there is no remedy but downe falleth the consistorie Great tumults were vp amongst them in the cittie and therefore he altered his former mind touching his not calling of Viretus and requesteth him most earnestly as beeing more gratious then himselfe to come and helpe to appease them You cannot possibly doe a thing sayth he that shall be more gratefull vnto me then if you shal make a good ende of these quarrells me ad Garamantas relegato though I be bannished into the farthest partes of the worlde And in another epistle Eo prorupit improbitas vt retineri qualemcunque ecclesiae statum diutius posse meo praesertim ministerio vix sperem Impiety hath gotten such a head that I canne scarsely thinke there can anye tollerable state of the Church continue here especially by my ministery These dissentions proceeding thus on for a time at the last they came to this issue vt maior Senatus receptum et bactemus seruatum ecclesiae ordinem repente conuelleret Nos restitimus that the greater Senate did sodainely ouerthrowe the order of the Church which had beene receiued and kept But we withstood them An argument of very good subiection Much trouble would surely haue come of it but that vpon a sermon preached by Maister Caluin and after vppon a motion made by him and the rest of the ministers to the Senate order was taken that for the quieting of all partes the said sentence of the greater Senate should be suspended vntill the state of Geneua had taken the aduise of foure Heluetian citties their neighbours and friendes touching the pointes in question vz. about the authoritye of their Consistorie to suspend men from the communnion as they sawe cause which is the verye scepter of that pretended Syon When this course was taken marke I pray you Maister Caluins pollicy He knew as in effect he saith that none of the magistrates of anye of those fower citties woulde write any aunswere to the cittizens letters of Geneua but by the aduise of their ministers Wherevpon whilest the Syndickes with their councells were conferring about their letters to be sent to the foresaid citties how and what they should write yea peraduenture who should endite them Maister Caluin presently speedeth a messenger one Budaeus with his priuate letter vnto his priuate friendes as to Maister Bullinger c. and with other letters also to the rest of the said Ministers ioyntly of purpose to prepare and pre-occupate their mindes beforehand against their magistrates should write thither Now I am come to the very panting or short breathing of the Consistoriall pretended Discipline whether it shoulde liue or die at Geneua The daunger it lay in was exceeding great but maister Caluin applied all his skill and medicines for the recouerie of it Few Phisitions will take such paines for their patientes In his said letters hee omitteth no point of his oratorie faculty The aduersaries of his discipline he painteth out in their collours as that their Senate was possessed with a lamen table blindnesse that they had dealt contumeliously with poore straungers that they had vsed Farellus very hardly that diuerse of them were such as shamed not to defend Seruetus the hereticke and that they were Sathans Ministers that stirred vp these strifes He indeuoureth to moue all commiseration towardes himselfe and his associates in respect of their paines and daungers vndertaken in the behalfe of that Church as that for seuen yeares together they had been impugned by all those that sought to liue riotously from vnder the yoake that for the space of foure yeares nothing had been pretermitted by the wicked whereby they might by little and little ouerthrowe the state of that Church and that for the last two yeares their condition was no better then if they had liued amongest the professed enemies of the Gospell He ascribeth very much vnto the ministers to whome he writ which was an especiall meanes to procure their good fauours As when he saith now the matter is come to this point that all our ecclesiasticall orders shall be quashed nisi istinc afferatur remedium except there come a remedie from you Againe you must so deale as if the state of our Church were in your handes Againe nunc extremus actus agitur now the last act is vpon the stage and the enemies of the Gospell are beginning alreadie to triumph against Christ his doctrine his ministers and all his members Againe so perswade your selues that if Sathan be not now bridled by you habenas ei laxatum iri he will get the libertie of his bit hereafter at pleasure And againe I beseech you brethren by the name of Christ to thinke that it is no common matter that is committed vnto you but that the consultation to be had is of the state or very being of our Church He touched furthermore all other points which hee was sure would be especially regarded by them being themselues ministers in that he saith that if their aduersaries get the victorie the whole authoritie of the ministerie is not onely gone in Geneua but that it will be subiect to euery base rake-bels reproches Which if it should happen he telleth them that he was resolued to depart thence Vnto all these artificiall points thus insisted vppon by him he addeth another of no lesse importance to drawe the said ministers mindes vnto the bent of his bowe For notwithstanding hee ascribeth so much vnto them as before hath been shewed yet he qualifieth all in such sorte as that they might suspect that except they did concurre with his desire he would hardly for his part yeald to anie thing that might crosse him He writeth vnto them very moderately of his cōsistoriall platforme He saith he is not ignoraunt how diuerse learned men do not thinke that forme of Discipline that hee writeth for to be necessary but yet hee addeth what his owne opinion is of it and that he trusteth no man of iudgement
shall we thinke that they heard of it and conspired together to ouerthrow Christes institution It may be said that peraduenture they heard of it and reproued it but could not reforme it Very well But where be then their admonitions petitions supplications and libels against it Where be their suspensions excommunications and giuings ouer to Sathan Not a word of that abuse in Saint Iohns Gospell written after the supposed defection but especially could he haue pretermitted such a high point in the booke of his Reuelations Or had he so many Reuelations of other matters of lesse importance forsooth and was such an ouerthrowe of Christes kingdome kept from him The Disciplinarian shiftes in this case to make the best of them can be but slaunderous and desperate But to graunt to all of them the acceptation of the Apostles times after the largest accompt there is surely nothing lesse to be found in those times then the Geneua platforme For then as particular congregations professed the Gospell you should haue found a Priest or minister of the worde and Sacramentes placed in them In Citties where there were diuerse such congregations or wherevnto sondry congregations of the country did appertaine then you shoulde haue found some Timothy a Bishop to gouerne them After that diuerse Citties had receaued the Gospell or some whole Countrey it was not long but some Titus was placed as Archbishop ouer them The twelue Apostles were in those times as twelue Patriarchs for all the world who planted directed visited commaunded and appointed the foresaid Church gouernours and what else they thought meet for the benefit of the church If I were presently to leaue this life and should speak what I thought of the present forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement at this time in the Church of England I would take it vppon my soule so farre as my iudgement serueth me that it is much more Apostolicall then any other forme of gouernment that I know in any other reformed Churche in the world As for these men that talke so much of the Apostles times they are indeede but brablers Their deuised regiment hath not any resemblaunce at all of that which was in the Apostles times They haue peruerted in deede the true meaning of certaine places both in the scriptures and in the auncient fathers for a shew to serue their turnes as after it shall appeare and other proofes from those times they haue not any But you will say this is denied It is so and of that else-where Howbeit in the meane while that cannot hinder my purpose to search out the pretended antiquity of it For it is confessed by them that the Apostles practised no other form of Ecclesiasticall gouernment in their times then Christ himselfe in his time did ordaine and assigne vnto them to be practised afterwards And what forme was that Forsooth they say it was the very same forme of Church regiment that was amongest the Iewes and that Christ when he said Dic Ecclesiae tell the Church did translate the same being called Sanedrim Councell or Senate into the Church to be the onely lawfull gouernment thereof vnto the end of the world So as here then we must fetch another friske about to search for the antiquity of the Iewish Senate Maister Caluin after hee had deuised the Geneua platforme and leapt ouer more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares for the strengthning of it by those wordes of Christ tell the Church vppon occasion he further saith that as farre as his auncient records will serue him the foresaide Iewish Sanedrim was deuised by the Iewes after theyr returne out of captiuity which was vppon the pointe of fiue hundred yeares before Christ Scimus c. wee knowe that from the time that the Iewes returned out of the captiuitye of Babilon the censure of manners and of doctrine was committed to a chosen Counsell which they called Sanedrim in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hoc legitimum fuit Deoque probatum regimen c. This was a lawfull regiment and allowed of God And againe to cutte of all childishe cauilles how to shift this place as that Caluin saith not that it was then first instituted the sam e Caluin speaketh hereof more plainely where intreating of the seuenty Elders Numbers 2. that were chosen to assist Moyses he hath these wordes Certum quidem est c. it is very certaine that when the Iewes were returned from the captiuity of Babylon because it was not lawfull for them to create a king they did imitate this example in erecting of their Sanedrim Here is then the time as plainely set down again as needeth vz. after the Captiuity the cause why they ordained it vz. because they might haue no King and the patterne they did imitate vz. Moyses choosing of seuenty Elders to assist him in his gouernment But all this will not yet serue the turne For besides many other exceptions which are taken to Maister Caluins extraction of the Iewes Sanedrim out of Christs wordes tell the Church this is one that if they will needes inforce such a gouernment vppon the Church as was amongst the Iewes then they meane belike to wrest from the Prince the ciuile sword and to deale themselues in ciuile causes by their owne authority which they haue so much condemned in others though they meddle not otherwise with them then by the Princes appointment for that the Iewes-sayd gouernment or Sanedrim had to doe as well in ciuile causes as in any other that were Ecclesiastical Their aunswere to this exception is that in deede the gouernement they speake-of had to deale in Christs time with ciuile causes de facto but not de iure and that the Priests Iudaicis rebus confusis through their pride and ambition had crastily and corruptly procured such vnlawfull authority vnto themselues to the defacing and hinderaunce of the Lordes institution by Moyses at the first See how they carry vs from post to piller Maister Caluin is no body with Beza Now we must yet further backeward vz. from the restitution of the Iewes out of Babilon to Moyses his time almost a thousand and fiue hundred yeares Surely maister Caluin should haue been as well acquainted with Moyses doings as Beza is for that he hath written Commentaries vppon all his fiue Bookes which Beza hath not If Caluin in sifting the Text so painefully as he hath done cold finde no such matter in Moyses as Beza pretendeth it doth greatly preiudice in my opinion his lighter conceite But heare his wordes We must omnia reuocare ad institutionem Domini per Mosem loquentis vt quid iure factum sit intelligamus Call euery thing to the institution of the Lorde speaking by Moyses if we will haue a true vnderstanding of this gouernement and of the right authority thereof Very well Here then wee must haue a newe issue We must set vp as I said the Church-gouernement which the Apostles practised the Apostles practised
followeth Timendum est c. It is to be feared least wee seeme ridiculous to your magistrats in requiring that of them which as yet wee haue not obtained of our owne We shall teach what the right vse is of church goods and who are the lawfull Stewardes of them that by our authoritie wee maie vrge those of Neocome Cur non potius exordium a nobis facimus But first why do not we begin with our selues Take heede therefore least in attempting to do you good that we doe not rather hurt your cause How much more forceable would that be which is in the booke that I procured to be printed when I was at Strasburgh For there the Princes as many as imbrace the gospel do promise the restitution of all which they haue in their possessions if once there were any godly concord agreed vpon Your magistrates are to be admonished by the example of those Princes that at the least vntill that time they would keepe them all wholy together vndisposed of or distracted in their owne hands You will aske me why I cease or hold my peace if I see the same mischiefe in Geneua that vexeth you Ego verònō cesso c. I do not truly cease openly in my sermons as oft as oportunitie serueth therunto Contestor Deum homines graue nobis imminere iudicium I do with griefe praier call God and men to witnes that a heauie iudgement hangeth ouer our heades I haue also affirmed diuerse times asmuch in our Senate neither doe I thinke that as yet I haue discharged my dutie seing I haue nothing preuailed But I do follow Ambrose who retayning the doctrine and the place of a pastor so as in defence of them he was ready to haue spent his life agros tyrannidi Imperatoris Valentiniani sinebat hee permitted the possessions of the Church to the tiranny of Valentinian the Emperor For our magistrates do suspect that the strife is but of emulation as though our griefe onely were that they haue wrong those thinges out of our fingers which now they possesse excepte peraduenture they giue it so out not because they thinke so but for that they would thereby discredit our words in that behalfe But yet notwithstanding we must so auoyd suspition that we doe not winke at sacriledge And againe the same maister Caluin in another epistle to Viretus doth signifie vnto him how he dealt with the magistrates of Geneua at one especiall time when there was speach about certaine stipends When I sawe howe hard they were in that matter acriter aurem illis vellicaui c. I made their eares to burn saith he as concerning the administration of Church-goods how in time they were to thinke what account they should make both to God and men Papam fuisse furem et sacrilegum videndum ne simus successores that the Pope was a thiefe and a church robber and they were to looke to it that they proued not his successors I did vse a preface that might cause attention vz. That the woundes of a friend were better c. and that they should not seeke any Balaam qui illis in maledictione benediceret who in their cursed estate should blesse them Hitherto maister Caluin whose wordes I haue set down at large that you might the better vnderstand the estate of the most worthy Reformation of the church of Geneua and how the discipline being there in her full prime and brightnes it is not possible that anye grosse enormities should continue in that Citie Indeed it is much and I meruaile how it is endured that maister Caluin should resemble the magistrates of Geneua to such cruell tyrannouse and sacrilegious persons Valentinian the Emperor and the Pope of Rome But most of all I wonder that maister Beza would publish such letters in print Being but written to priuate men the matter could not be great Marry now they are thus offred to all posteritie the testimonie of such tyrannous sacrilege will be euer had in memorie For which kind of dealing they are much beholden to Beza It was indeed handled of him politickly Of likelyhood the sacrilege mentioned doth continue there still But he being a prouident man thought it better that maister Caluin being dead should tell them of it then he himselfe being aliue and therefore subiect vnto their displeasures For otherwise maister Beza for his parte is as earnest against sacrilege as euer maister Caluin was and it may be for ought I do know or remember to the contrarie that hee hath dealt himselfe as roundly with them But sure I am of his iudgement which doth appeare in his treatise of his three sortes of Bishops where this question being propounded vnto him vz. Whether these thinges which had beene once vowed to holy vses might afterwardes bee otherwise employed he maketh this answere Concerning the goodes of the Church first of all we suppose great heed ought to be taken that none doth staine himselfe with handling the church goods For if God hath taken reuenge of such sacrilege euen amongst the very Idolaters what trow we will his iudgement bee against them which haue spoyled his Church and haue prophaned the thinges which were set a part for his true worship Moreouer it is euident that this turneth greatly to the reproch of the name of God and of his holy gospell as though for sooth papistrie hath beene abandoned not for the loue of the truth but to robbe the Church of her goodes as though new theeues haue entred into the roomes of the olde c. Viretus in like manner for his earnestnes in this pointe is neither short of Caluin not Beza The lesse authoritie that the ministerye and ministers haue the greater libertie haue sacrilegers theeues extortioners and other wicked ones Againe I know many which liked the gospell well when in the beginning their preachers cryed against the abuse that they sayd was in the Romish church and in priests and monkes They liked well also that the goods of the Church should be taken from Priests and Monkes to haue the gouernment of them themselues vnder colour that the Priests and Monkes abused them and that they should be put to better vse but God knoweth how euill they are bestowed vppon manye and in many places The worst is that those which haue not done herein as they ought and which dayly forget themselues more more cannot now a dayes so much as suffer the preachers to admonish reproue them to stir thē vp to bestow it where they ought to bestow it according to the order discipline c. And in another place These fellowes that will not restore the church-liuings may be likened to those Diuils which cry why art thou come to torment vs before our time And the same fellowes also say Qui nostra tollit inimicus est hee that taketh awaye ours is our enemie They regard not whether they haue gotten the goods that they possesse
as much authoritie as anye King maie lawfully challenge we abbridge her of nothing that the worde of God alloweth her and many other such ambiguous protestations they vse to make in this behalfe But they plav the deceitfull sophisters whom the Lord abhorreth For these are some of their grounds A man would thinke that they had taken them out of Hosius The Christian soueraigne ought not to be called the head vnder Christ of the particular and visible churches vvithin his dominions No ciuile magistrat hath prehemineÌ„ce by ordinary authoritie to determine of church-church-causes No ciuile magistrat in Councels or assemblies for church-matters can either be cheefe moderator ouer-ruler iudge or determiner No ciuile magistrat hath such authoritie as that vvithout his consent it should not be lavvfull for ecclesiastical persons to make any church-order or ceremonie No ciuile magistrat ought to receiue either tenths or first fruits of any ecclesiasticall persons The iudgemeÌ„t of church-matters pertaineth to God they ought ordinarily to be handled by the church-officers the principallitie or direction of the iudgement of them is by Gods ordinance pertaining to the ministerie of the Church As for the making of orders and ceremonies in the church they do vvhen there is a constituted and ordered church pertaine vnto the ministers of the church and to the ecclesiasticall gouernors and that as they meddle not vvith the making of ciuile lavves and lavves for the common-vvealth so the ciuile magistrate hath not to ordaine ceremonies pertaining to the church The ministers are to determine of controuersies as they arise and to make or abolish needfull or hurtfull ceremonies Herevnto may be added that which is before obserued how he ascribeth the same right in church causes to an infidel or prophane magistrat that he doth to any Christian princes and of their mutuall agreement with the Pope himselfe in the manner of both their excluding of Christian magistrats from hauing any thing to do as vnder Christ in his Church Hitherto then concerning all these puritane-popish assertious so much derogating from the lawfull authoritie of Christian princes There is but only this difference betwixt them the rankest Iesuits in Europe that what the one sort ascribe to the Pope and his shauelings the other do challenge to themselues and their Aldermen Vpon which occasion Cartvvright finding himselfe with his fellowes ranged to walke step by step with such a crue taketh vpon him like some dawber or bricklaier to make a high wall as he tearmeth it betwixt the Papists and them in this point But God knoweth it is a simple one and so thinne that you may easily looke through it and discerne them marching both togither First sayth he the Papists exempt their priests from the punishment of the ciuile magistrate vvhich vve doe not It is reason in deed you should not But if you doe not what doe these things mean The author of the second admonition desireth that he and his companions may be deliuered by act of Parlement from the authoritie of the ciuile magistrates as Iustices and others and from their inditings and finings Furthermore where Cartvvright sayth that the authoritie of christian Princes commeth immediately from God and not from Christ as he is mediator and that the authoritie of the svvord is the same ordinance of God as vvell in heathen princes as in Christians doth it not follow that in his iudgement Christian princes haue no authoritie ouer any of their subiects but only as they are men and not as they are either Christians or priests If you thinke it doth not then what T.C. wanteth I.B. doth supplie and that in proper tearmes as if it please you to peruse the place it will appeare vnto you Besides there goeth a letter from hand to hand written by certaine gentlemen of Suffolke to the Lords of her maiesties councell wherein there is great complaint made in the behalfe of certaine of the brotherhood as a matter fit to bee reformed that being ministers they had at their assises bene presented brought to the barre endicted arraigned and condemned Which dealing they tearme to be very hard and tending to the vtter discredit of the vvhole ministerie and profession of truth So that of all likelihood for all Cartvvrights saying both he and his fellowes could be well contented to be exempted from the ciuile magistrats But let vs heare the papists vpon this point or first part of Cartvvrights wall and peraduenture you shall find them as forward for their subiection herein as hee himselfe is or at the least as small a difference betwixt them as euer you saw though it were betweene two twiâ—nes Good kings may put bishops and priests in mind of their duties and bridle both their riot and arrogancie The prince by the vvord of God may make lavves for the obseruation of both tables and punish the trangressors I do here presently offer my selfe to receaue a corporall â—ath vpon the Euangelists that I do vtterly thinke and am persuaded in my conscience that the Queenes highnesse is the onely supreme gouernour of this realme and of all other her highnesse dominions and countries c. And further I shall presently svveare that her highnesse hath vnder God the soueraignty and rule ouer all maner of persons borne vvithin these her highnesse realms of vvhat estate ecclestasticall or temporall soeuer they be Fatemur person as EpiscoparuÌ„ qui in toto orbe fuerunt Romano imperatori subiectos fuisse VVe confesse that the persons of all the Bishops in the vvorld vvere subiect to the Romane emperour Rex praeest hominibus Christianis verum non quia sunt Christiani sed quia sunt homines quoniam ipsi episcopi sunt homines episcopis etiam ea ex parte rex praeesset The king ruleth christiaÌ„s not as they are christiaÌ„s but as they are men because bishops are men the king in that respect hath authoritie ouer them Harding also confesseth that if the causes be ciuile and temporall and all other causes our reformers do tie to their Elderships Bishops may be conuented before ciuile authoritie And it appeareth amongst all the learned Papists that the cheese prerogatiue they haue had in this point hath proceeded from the meere fauour and good will of Christian Princes the rather to couer and keepe from the people such faults in the Clergie as might breed their contempt Hitherto then this wall riseth vp but easily especially if I should adde in this place the brethren of Scotland their diuinitie for this matter when they not the Papists gaue the king and state occasion to make it by act of Parlement 1584 treason for any man to refuse to answer before the king though it were concerning any matter which was ecclesiasticall Now concerning the second part of Cartvvrights wall it is this The Papists sayth he vvill haue the Prince to
execute vvhatsoeuer they conclude be it good or bad vve say that if there be no lavvfull ministerie as in time of necessitie Dauid did eat the shevv bread vvhich vvas othervvise lavvfull for the priests only to eat of that then the Prince ought to set order and that vvhen there is a lavvfull ministerie if it shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the Prince ought to stay it Surely you are very proper and right liberall sayers Doth not your admonisher affirme that if your platforme were once on foot all men must stand vnto the determinations of your maiesticall church officers that I may vse maister VVakes tearme except it should happen in some matter of faith they should make decrees against the vvord of God And I pray you if any such thing should happen how could the king reforme it or as you say stay it He iudgeth their sayd orders to be erronious and perceaueth the mischiefes that do depend vpon them but how shall he redresse and preuent them Shall he compell the authors of them to assemble themselues together againe and to retract and condemne all such their decrees They are of that humor as experience hath told vs that it is vnlikely they will be compelled to any thing No it were too great a disgrace for them to yeeld in any thing that once they haue broached were it good or bad but especially when it is decreed in any of their worshipfull meetings And besides if the king should presse them too far in such a matter he might find them peraduenture but very ticklish subiects Cartvvright to shuffle vp some blundering answer to these points sayth That if in such a case the church ministers should shevv themselues obstinate and vvould not be aduised by the Prince they should thereby prooue themselues to be an vnlavvfull ministerie that vpon such an occasion the Prince might remooue thē Remouethē How By any ordinarie authoritie which you do allow to the christian magistrats in causes ecclesiasticall But you haue told vs before your mind herein In effect that it must be done by an extraordinarie authoritie euen by the same right that Dauid did eat of the shew-bread which were it not in such a case of necessitie none but the Priests might in any wise eat of For otherwise as it is before mentioned where such a platforme is in execution as they seeke for the Prince hath not any thing to doe by their doctrine God knoweth either with placing or displacing of church ministers Or if Cartvvright will say that I wrest his words to the worst construction and that he meaneth plainely as purposing thereby to confirme for his part her maiesties ordinarie supreme authoritie in those maner of causes I am content he make the best of his owne words that he can whether he meant ordinarie or extraordinarie authoritie so that when he hath done he will stand vnto it But let him say what he is able yet he hath a woolfe by the eares and shall neuer be able so to shift his hands but that it will follow that both he and all the pastors doctors and elders that are combined with him are by his words both obstinate and vnlawfull ministers except he shall withdraw this part of his wall as being to weake to make such a separation from the papists as he pretendeth For notwithstanding that the present gouernment of the church of England is established and confirmed by a nationall synod with the generall cōsent of the whole land to be a most lawful godly forme of gouernment notwithstanding that her Maiestie doth so thinke of it and hath shewed herselfe many waies as by her acts of parlemēt her proclamatiōs her sundry speeches yea by the punishing imprisoning of some certaine persons vtterly to dislike of their pretended discipline as being in her princely iudgement a meere forgerie vaine conceit of busie restlesse heads cōtrary to the word of God and ancient practise of all the godly churches in the world for 1500 yeares all these things I say notwithstanding yet they haue rayled libelled raged against the said present gouernmēt They haue and do still neglect as well her maiesties setled iudgment of the vnlawfulnesse of their decreed platforme as also her lawes her pleasure and many commandements that they should desist hereafter from that their erronious deuise and submit themselues quietly to the forme established Nay they are so far from yeelding in this point to any authoritie of her maiestie whether ordinarie or extraordinarie as that they haue attempted by very vnlawfull and seditious means to aduance their purposes against her highnesse will and do plainly giue it out that they wil not desist they will not hold their peace they will haue their desires though they be driuen to vndertake such means for that end as will make their hearts to ake who are their cheese impugners Stand now to your words maister Cartvvright if you meant plainly vz. If the ministerie shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the prince ought to stay it and then are not all the packe of you concluded by your said answer to be obstinat persons and a false ministerie If you haue any refuge in the world it is this that whatsoeuer the said nationall councell the learned mens opinions that do impugne you the lawes of this realme all the ancient churches and her maiestie relying vpon them whatsoeuer they altogether do thinke iudge to be lawfull you care not or you are sory for it but all that notwithstanding you are sure for that you haue decreed amōgst your selues vz. that you haue not therein erred and therefore they must all beare with you though you rest your selues vpon the truth of your own decrees giue no place either to councel law prince fathers learned men or any other authoritie whatsoeuer that maketh against you And will not H.N. and Barovv will not al hereticks schismaticks say as much where is then the princes authoritie you spake of For staying such kind of proceeding what course shall he take These ministers as I sayd conclude vpon their owne deuises The king considereth of them and findeth them vnlawfull but they denie it what shall hee do Your refuge Cartvvright is euerie Heretickes refuge If her Maiestie with all the reasons mentioned cannot stay you and your sect let neuer any king or ciuile magistrat looke by any authoritie which you do giue vnto them in causes ecclesiasticall to stay the fancies of any such fellowes But the substance of all their deuises is nothing but pretences of things that are not And agreeable therevnto is this second part of Cartvvrights wall of the difference betweene him and the Papists who in effect for ought I see are as franke to Christian Princes euen in this point as either he or his fellowes Princes extraordinarily sayth Harding haue laudably intermedled vvith Religion as iudges and rulers of spirituall causes Good Christian Princes euer tooke into their
sibi persuasit papa diaboli vicarius The pastors themselues shall not be Christ's vicars as he is priest vvhich office notvvithstanding the pope the diuels vicar tooke falsely vpon him The pastors he saith shall not be Christs vicars as he is a priest And thē ther is no remedie They shal not How shal they hold then immediatly of him as he is a prophet That is it They are his substitutes or vicars saith hee onely as he is a prophet Did any man euer say so before Surely not to my remembrance Maister Fenner in his diuinitie perused by maister Cartvvright and allowed of at Geneua can find but two kinds of offices appertaining to Christ vz. his priesthood and his kingly office and therfore he maketh prophesie a part of his priesthood It is much what also to the same purpose and directly contrary to I. B. that the diuinitie grounds printed at Geneua do affirme by the mouth of one Abraham Henric where they say Pastorū ministeriū vt olim sacerdotum c. The dutie of pastors as in times past of the priests consisteth in three things teaching administring of the sacraments publicke praier So as either I.B. must be content that ministers may be Christs vicars as he is a priest or else I see not how he will bestow them You will say peraduēture that they may be Christs vice-gerēts as he is a king but that as I sayd he will not indure If any might be Christs vicars sayth he as he is a king the Apostles Prophets Euangelists Ministers and Doctors might be his vicars At ne hi quidem quia rex est dicendi sunt vicarij But they neither are to be called Christs vicars as he is a king Well some place they must haue there is no remedie I dare say you would smile if it should so fall out that all our consistorian ministers will needs bee Christs substitutes in that he is a king Surely I must tell you it proueth so For as touching I. B. they reckon him I perceaue but a simple politian Christs kingdome it hath bene truly vrged is not of this world it is plea good enough against our bishops but it holdeth not to impaire the estimation of our petit consistorian kings A distinction will helpe thē at a pinch Christs kingdome is not of this world but it ought to be in this world Do you not here desire to know what this kingdome is That I may not keepe you long in suspence it is the Geneuian Eldership and euen the very same kingdome saith our counterpoizer vvhere of Christ spake many times after his resurrection by the space of sortie daies as the Iesuits themseluss are compelled to confesse See the seducer Who cōpelled the Iesuits to say so would not a man haue thought that this place had bene vrged by some protestants against the papists for the ouerthrow of some especiall points of poperie wher vpon after much paines the Iesuits bad bene driuen in spight of their heads to admit of the interpretatiō mētioned But it is clean contrary the Iesuits do abuse this place of purpose in the behalfe of the Antichristian Romish form of church regimēt so doth the Counterpoizer following the Iesuits therin for the setting forth of their Geneuian papacy or Regalitie I could adde here a number of strange sayings whereof you shall here anon in some other chapters following concerning this new presbiteriall kingdome But now it is more pertinent to make the point I haue in hand more apparant vnto you Christ as a king prescribed the forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment saith Cartvvright not as a priest nor as a prophet but as a king With Cartvvright his scholler Dudlie Fenner doth agree in this point setteth downe the first part of his kingly administration to be about the building and continuance of the church by the officers appointed Eph. 4.11.12.13 Maister Beza also he runneth the same course how Christ being a king the head of the church doth administer his kingdome Per legitime vocatos pastores by pastors lavvfully called And Sonnius in like manner affirmeth that Christ doth execute his kingly office in the collectiō of the church by the ministerie of the word and sacraments and by the internall gouernment of his spirit and the external of the ministerie Here is indeed very roiall preferment for al the ministers of the word But I meruaile how the ruling elders do hold their authoritie They are neither priests nor prophets of likelihood then they must be little kings Wel then Christ is the king the presbiterie is his kingdome his immediat vice-gerents they are all of them What Surely by the due course of degrees which are acknowledged the pastors must be all of thē as it were emperors the doctors kings the elders dukes and the deacons lords of the treasurie c. And for the authoritie of euery such kingdom it must needs fal out to be very soueraign For if euery presbiterie as it is before noted be properly to be called the body of Christ and the true portraiture of the catholick church that euery one of thē is of equall authoritie now that the officers in them are Christs immediat vice-gerēts within their own kingdoms who shall controll any of their doings or whither should a man appeale if he found himselfe iniuried I remember maister Bezas saying That euery eldership is the tribunall seat of Christ. Which is all one almost with the assertion of some Romish parasits that the pope and Christ haue but one consistorie They tell vs of appellations from an eldership to a classis from a classis to a prouinciall synod from a prouincial synod to a nationall from a nationall vnto a generall councell But as the papists do make euery appellation from the pope to be as absurd and all one as if the appeale were made from Christ so must it necessarily follow to be as vntollerable to appeale from any consistorie it being as it hath bene affirmed the tribunall seat of Christ and the officers in it Christs immediat gouernors And because it is pretended that the regiment they speake of is in the best perfection at Geneua I would gladly know whither a man might appeale vpon occasion from that eldership there The churches of Bern or Zuricke haue no more to do with the church of Geneua they will say then Geneua hath to do with them or an eldership in Scotland with another of the low countries But I haue taried too long vpon this matter in collecting vpon their contrarie assertions Therefore to conclude I would wish all christian and godly magistrats that haue as yet in their hands the lawfull authoritie in church-church-causes which belongeth vnto them by the word of God to keepe it stil vntill at the least these disciplinarie deuisers be fully resolued whether we must account thē priest prophets or kings priests if they be Christs substitutes as he is a
hee shall thereby incurre the high displeasure of these Rabbies which he shall be sure to haue sticking vpon him vntill they can waite him as good a turne yet I say againe vvhat is left to the magistrat The iniurie is confessed afore There shall need no triall of the fact where so many witnesses may be vsed to prooue his confession afore if now he should denie it All that the magistrat hath to do is to set down what recompense I shall haue for my sayd iniurie and to tax my charges If you say nay hee will heare the cause againe Indeed I confesse he had need to do so But so both I and the partie should be doubly charged and troubled Besides that course would turne to the vtter discredit of the presbyteries that their dealings fitting in the seat of Christ should come to be scanned by those that are but humane ordinations For so some of them by colour of the Apostles words do debase magistracie And therefore peraduenture they will thinke it meet that vpon certificat from them the magistrats should so prōceed to adiudge me a recompense and to rate mine expenses without any further adoo Some such thing it is though not in this very case which the ministers of the low countries haue desired Thus a very graue man borne amongst them reporteth of this matter Ministri nullam habent coërcendi potestatem nec habere volunt Tantùm cupiunt vt magistratus puniant eos qui ipsorum mandatis parere detrectarent Quod nunquam sunt facturi nisi prius de tota causa legitime recognouerint actoribus aut accusatoribus ministris consistorij Quod seniores ministri alienū à suo ministerio esse similiter iudicant In haec absurd a inciderunt propter reiectam episcoporum authoritatē c. The ministers there haue no povver to correct any man neither vvill they haue any Only they desire of the magistrats to punish such as should refuse to obey their cōmandements vvhervnto the magistrats vvil neuer yeeld except they may take notice of the vvhole cause againe by ordinarie course of lavv the ministers of the consistories making thēselues either plaintifs or accusers VVhich the elders and ministers do iudge not to be agreeable to their ministerie And they are fallen into these absurdities he had also before named some other through their reiecting of the authoritie of bishops You see their desire in this case and it may in mine opinion bee stretched to the former And then as I haue shewed through scandales offences consciences and I know not what pretences challenges and counterfait prerogatiues the iurisdiction of their elderships will be so large as the ciuile magistrats iudges and lawyers shall not need to be greatly troubled These things with all the premisses of this chapter considered I dare say you long to know by what authoritie they challenge to deale in all these so many and so infinite causes And to satisfie your longing the learned discourser shall first speake his mind Our sauiour Christ sayth he in the vvord church alludeth to the Ievves Sanedrim vvhich had the hearing and determining of all difficult matters amongst them the like vvhereof he vvilled to be established in his church for administration of gouernment What you will say but weightie matters How come they now to al matters euen to Robin-hood maigames and may poles Ye say truly but Cartvvright will supply this defect For indeed this discourser shot many bowes too short This vvas the policie and discipline of the Ievves and of the sinagogue saith he from vvhence our sauiour tooke this and translated it vnto this church that vvhen any man had done any thing that they held for a fault that then the same vvas punished and censured by the elders of the church And M. Beza Quod ius fuit Synagogae sub lege cur non valeat in ecclesia sub euangelio authore Christo Math. 18.17 non video I see not why the same authoritie that the Synagogue had vnder the lawe shoulde not continue now in the Church vnder the Gospell according to Christs institution in the chapter mentioned Indeede if Christ haue ordained any such matter it is good reason it should bee so But because they will needs bring vs to the Iewes let vs see what prettie tales they will tell vs of those times They say and it is true that the Priests were the Lawyers of the land And would they be so now If the same pollicie continue why should they not They tell vs further that in ciuill causes when there did arise anie doubt in law amongst the Iudges the decision thereof did belong to the Priests iurisdiction If that also were a good pollicie and that it be continued by Christ then I see no reason why it should not againe be now established in all places They say that the 17. of Deuteronomie from the beginning of the eight verse vnto the ende of the thirteenth doth intreat of the ecclesiasticall Senate where it is said that iudgements betweene bloud and bloud between plea and plea c. did belong to the priestes and that it was death for any man not to rest in his determination If this pollicie be in like manner continued who then in the common-wealth but the ecclesiasticall Elderships Matters of bloud and of all pleas Who would not take those points to be more ciuil causes It is true But they tell vs that when the priests dealt in any of those causes they dealt not in them ciuilly but ecclesiastically It will trouble a man to find out their sleights But one example to this purpose you shall haue When such a doubt did rise saith Beza Non de facto Not of the facte for that was meere ciuill but Deiure what the law was in such a case then the Ecclesiasticall Eldership determined thereof and that doone the ciuill Iudge gaue sentence of the facte accordingly As though there should be two Courts in Westminster hall one for matters of fact in ciuill and criminall causes consisting of temporall Iudges and another for matters of Conscience for all sortes of offences and for matters of lawe consisting of ecclesiasticall persons some Pastors and Doctors assisted in solemn maner with their church Aldermen Suppose then I pray you that you are by chaunce in Westminster hall such a difficult matter in lawe as is pretended commeth before the Iudges of some fact whereupon downe they come from their seats and go to the Elders May it please your Maisterships there is such a cause before vs which seemeth to be a foule matter if it fall out as the bill or declaration is laid what is the law in this point The Elders consult together resolue them The Iudges giue them a legge returne to their places the cause falleth out according to the complaint and so they pronounce the sentence as the Aldermen taught them Suppose I say all these things
then you perceiue what Bezaes distinction meaneth with what good discretion both hee and his followers will needs make two Courts of that which was but one It is a very great maruel that any wise men should insist vpon these so apparant and childish fooleries In all the Courtes I thinke in the world since there haue beene anie the same that were Iudges of the lawe were Iudges likewise to trie the fact except it be in England And yet heere also euen in the triall of factes by twelue men we haue not two Courts for one matter but all the euidence witnesses and whatsoeuer else that doth appertaine for the finding out of the fact are brought before the Iudges of the law They sift and examine euerie point and circumstance that so the Iurie may bee fully informed and they are indeede the chiefe directors as it is meete in the whole matter And as it is and hath beene in all the worlde so it was in all the Courtes appointed either by Moses or by King Iehosophat in Iewrie It is true that all difficulties that did rise amongst the Iudges of inferior Courts in the country whether they were of law or facts and likewise all appellations from lower Courts did belong to the high Court at Ierusalem to bee heard and determined But doth that proue one Court to bee two Nay it is most apparant that if they will needs fetch their Elderships from the Iewes Synedria they may challenge to themselues aswell the ciuill gouernement of the common-wealth as the ecclesiasticall of the church For so was the forme of gouernmeÌ„t then according to the testimonies of scripture of all the Iewes the Rabbines the Talmudists Iosephus others And I greatly doe suspect it that in time they will begin to claime it I find them so wauering and vncertaine in this matter As yet fiâ— they cannot abide to heare of it But obserue them how they stagger Beza in his booke against Erastus whereunto hee himselfe and seuenteene other Ministers of Geneua subscribed and which was the booke indeed that Erastus did confute both he they all of them were in doubt of this point An verò ciuilem aliquam coÌ„eÌ„rtionem habuerit ex iure ecclesiasticum illuà apud Iudaeos synedâ—ion definire vix possumus habuisse tamen posterioribus saltem temporibus negare nec si velimus possumus c. We can scarcely define whether the ecclesiasticall Eldership amongst the Iewes had any authoritie of right to vse ciuill punishments that it had at the least in the later times if we would denie it we cannot It is very well said And then I trust it will be confessed that as long as that authoritie continued hee had beene a fond man that should but once haue dreamed of the former distinction of making one Court two vz. the one of fact and the other of law and of dealing in ciuill causes ecclesiastically or I know not how Yea saith Beza but though they had such authoritie probabile est it is probable that it was procured ambitione maximorum pontificum by the ambition of the high priests How like you this When he is so pressed both by scriptures and with other authoritie that hee cannot chuse but confesse the point in question see how substantially he would seem to auoide it with his Theologicall demonstration Probabile est But that I doe the man no iniurie hee hath an other shift of descant to helpe himselfe herein Though they had any such authoritie exiure by the law saith he yet Hoc nihil ad nos It doth not concerne vs. Why if the same pollicie that the Iewes had bee continued by Christ in his Church how commeth it to passe that this doth nothing concerne vs It is abrogated Belike euen as much and as little of the pollicie must continue as is in force at Geneua But who did abrogate it Christ. Where When hee said Reges gentium dominantur eis vos autem non sic The kinges of the nations beare rule ouer them but it shall not be so with you They seeme to bee much beholden to this peece of scripture it serueth them vnto so many purposes But if they presume in this sort vpon the continuall fauour of it certainly it will leaue them when they least suspect it If the Iewes Eldership had to deale in ciuill causes that Christ had puâ—posed to haue continued that form of gouernment in his Church in all pointes sauing in that he would haue said thus The priests of the Iewes did beare rule ouer them and had to deale in ciuill causes but it shall not be so with you It is to bee wondred ar that Beza should content himselfe with such vnlikely so very improbable conceites But it seemeth that vpon some better aduisement with himself and his fellowe subscribers they grewe all of them ashamed of these shiftes And therefore in his booke of excommunication which hee lately published hee is become in some sort another man Now both he his said felow-Ministers are out of doubt Ex clarissimis testimoniis By most clear testimonies that the authority which the priests had in ciuill causes was gotten by bribes Ex licentia iurisdictionis perturbatione through the libertie and confusion of those two distinctiurisdictions which confusion Christus nunquam approbanit Christ neuer approued Ah very well though they haue turned ouer an other lease and for Probabile est do bragge of most cleare testimonies yet concerning Christs wordes they are gone backward For his commandement Vos autem non sic is now turned as you see into Nunquam approbauit which carrieth with it no other force than is ascribed to a negatiue collection But for all their most cleare testimonies he must haue better eyes than mine that can discerne any thing by them sauing their inconstancie and that there is cause to suspect therby as I said that when their credites are increased they will not greatly sticke to breake the bounds of their said distinctions deale as well with matters of fact as of law For els besides all the premisses what meaneth this new ground of Diuinitie published of late in print to the worlde from Geneua Ciuiles quoque lites antequam Christiani essent magistratus vt verisimile est ex Apostolica doctrina amicè citra vllum ferè strepitum componebantur The ciuill contentions before there were any Christian magistrates were compounded as it is likely according to the Apostles doctrine by the Elderships friendly and without any suites of law So as now if this question were once determined whether that may bee lawful when there is a Christian magistrate that is lawfull to bee doone when there is none there should as you see bee no more suites in law for ciuill causes in the lande their Elderships haue intituled themselues vnto them and ingrossed them all by right into their handes You will say it is true that they haue done so indeede if
Bishoppes grounding themselues vppon one of Cartwrightes principles That any increase of authoritie being added to a Church-Minister dooth cleane chaunge his Ministerie and maketh it a new Ministerie Whervpon they conclude that Archbishoppes and Bishoppes hauing receyued an increase of theyr authorities by diuerse Councelles c. are become to bee of a newe Ministerie neuer ordayned by Christ nor his Apostles and so consequently vnlawfull and to bee abolished The follie of this collection hath beene shewed manie wayes both by reasons and by examples but yet they haue not beene satisfied But nowe you shall see they are put to silence for euer For Beza is peremptorie to the contrarie of that which they haue so inforced In his booke agaynst Doctor Sarauia speaking of a place of Ieromes how Bishoppes were ordayned for orders sake c. hee sayth in effecte That when they had such authoritie giuen then for orders sake Mutatio non suit in re ipsa id'est in ipso ordine sed tantùm in ordinis modo There was no chaunge made in the thinge it selfe that is in the order but in the manner or measure of the order And afterwards more plainely where hee setteth downe another manner of principle than Cartwrightes vz. That wee must distinguish betweene the nature of a thing and that which adhereth vnto it accidentally because Eo in aliud cōmutato vel sublato res ipsa permanet The accident beeing chaunged or taken away the thing it selfe remaineth Whereupon if I vnderstande him he groweth to this issue That the increase of any such authority as is before mentioned or the alteration of the manner or order is not of the essence of the Ministery but a thing that is accidentall and may be chaunged according to the circumstaunces of times and places And hee bringeth this example Accidentale fuit c. It was accidentall c. Vt vnusquispiam iudicio caeierorum compresbyterorum delectus presbyterio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esset permaneret That one beeing chosen by the iudgement of the rest of his fellow-priests or Elders should be the President or the Prelate ouer the presbytery and so continue You will aske mee perhaps how this geare comes about that Beza is so opposite to Cartwright I will tell you my conceit I suppose that matters of their pretended Discipline are growen to greater ripenes in Geneua then they are thankes be to God in England and that therfore Beza is more franke to let vs see what they generallie shoote at then Cartwright dare bee as yet For howsoeuer Cartwright presumed to tell vs as it seemeth vntrulie that their moderator forsooth should be chosen but for one action only and that Caluin being chosen to that office for two yeares so as I take it from two yeares to two yeares misliked that small preheminence should so long remayne with one which in time might breede inconuenience and that Beza also misliked it for that cause Yet now you see that Beza is far from that base conceit thinketh that that office maie bee permanent and further saith that to ordaine it so now certè reprehendi nec potest nec debet it neyther can nor ought surely to bee reprehended And his reason is this for that it hath beene an order that one should bee so chosen to haue such a permanent preheminece in the Church euer since Saint Markes time Nay he is come to this that he is content to yeald in effect that the institution of an Archbishop is agreable to the word of God vz. ex illa generali et verissima Apostolica regula c. according to that generall true Apostolicall rule which appoynteth that all thinges should bee done orderly in the house of God Est igitur or do c. There is therefore saith hee an order in it selfe and by it selfe prescribed by God but the reason or vse of that order and the manner of it dependeth vppon the circumstances of times places and persons and is as men speake according to Lawes positiue Nowe if these thinges that Beza writteth bee true and that he himselfe peraduenture could bee well inough pleased to enioye such an office if the sayde circumstances of time and place might serue his turne to obtaine it then we perceaue that such additions of titles and preheminence so he and his fellowes may haue them do make no such alteration of the essence of the ministerie as with vs is pretended There is great barking against the church of England for that by Act of parliament some partes of the Canon Law are retained and to bee vsed by our Bishops for the better gouernment of the Church insomuch as the very name of the Canon law is become odious the commō sort of simple men of the factious crue verily supposing that the name of such a law rule or institution is popish vnlawfull and diuelish and therfore they crie out crucifie it crucifie it awaie with it wee will not be ruled by it we will none of it As though they shoúld saye we are lawlesse men for rules and orders we detest them whatsoeuer seemeth good in our own eyes that we will doe at the least if we euer yeald our obediēce to any churchlaw it shall bee surelie of our own making sie vppon all former Councels sie vppon all those decisions which the auncient fathers made sie vpon all old and auncient constitutions And thus in effect they write speake in their libels and ordinarie table-talke whereas notwithstanding if there be anie thing in the Canon-law that will serue their purposes they can be contēt to steale it thence to take to themselues thereby the commendation which is due to the true authors fathers of it Cartwright his fraternitie in their essentiall draught of discipline haue drawen more then seuen partes of eight of it out of the Canon-lawe and auncient constitutions Viretus perceiuing but too late what hindrance grew to the platforme of their new discipline by the vtter abolishing of the Canon-law at once and as it were in a furie which he supposed did wold still haue bridled princes if it had been retained and still in force sheweth his dislike of such rashnes in these wordes They thought it a goodly reformation in the Church to abolish all the Canons decrees with the good statutes which the auncient fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to mayntaine the good discipline in the church The chiefe point indeed that grieued Viretus as there it appeareth at large was this because Princes by that meanes had drawen their necks frō vnder the yoke of discipline A matter so much misliked by them as that he is flatte of opinion that it had beene better for the Church to haue kept the old Pope still then by abrogating of the Canon law and in giuing to Princes so great authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall so to haue subiected her selfe to a new kind of papacie
speeches will pretende scriptures But when they haue so done tell them that they peruerte the scriptures to serue their turnes and that thus and thus they must vnderstand them according to the iudgement of all the auncient fathers their aunswere in effecte is this What tell you vs of the auncient fathers Caluin and Beza are the beste expounders of the scriptures Maister Cartwright is a rare birde a worthy wight and as it were Christ himselfe amongest his Apostles They haue taught vs as wee teach they are our fathers who haue begotten in vs a loue and a likinge of the Geneua Discipline and them will wee followe In truth it is pitifull to consider vnto what a height of pride many men are growen It is lesse subiecte to offence to reiect the authoritie of Saint Ierome Saint Augustine or anye of the rest nay to refuse them alltogether then to reiecte the iudgementes eyther of Caluin of Beza or of Cartwright For Maister Caluin and maister Beza I doe thinke of them and of their writinges as they deserue But yet I thinke better of the auncient fathers I must confesse it And for maister Cartwright it is true that hee hath many good partes in him but the ouer-weening which he hath of himselfe and which many besides haue of him is like a lumpe of dowe that sowereth both him and them all You haue heard of what accounte his writinges are with his sectaries insomuch that one of them saith in effecte both for himselfe and for his brethren that without Cartwrightes bookes they cannot come to the knowledge of the truth Cartwrights bookes the way to the truth To speake my conscience they are the waye to manye grosse errors and seditious fancies Of all his bookes I woulde thinke that should beare the price which containeth the iustification of all his deuises and is the last frutes of that Worthies wit I meane his second reply Touching the which booke you shall heare maister Doctor Whitakers opinion from whence especially if some one or two ioyned with him the layer out of men in colours as it hath been sayd will not hastily appeale Thus hee writeth Quem Cartwrightus nuper emisit libellum eius magnam partem perlegi Ne viuam si quid vnquam viderim dissolutius ac penè puerilius Verborum satis ille quidem lautam ac nouam supellectilem habet rerum omnino nullam quantum ego iudicare possum Deinde non modo peruersè de principis in rebus sacris at que ecclesiasticis authoritate sentit sed in papistarum etiam castra transfugit a quibus tamen videri vult odio capitali dissidere Verum nec in hac causa ferendus alijs etiam in partibus tela a papistis mutuatur Denique vt de Ambrosio dixit Hieronimus verbis ludit sententijs dormitat plane indignus est qui a quopiam docto resutetur That is I haue read a great part of that booke which maister Cartwright hath lately published vz this second reply I pray God I liue not if euer I saw any thing more loosely written and almost more childishly It is true that for wordes hee hath great store and those both fine and new but for matter as farre as I can iudge he is altogether barren Moreouer he doth not onely thinke peruersly of the authoritie of Princes in causes ecclesiasticall but also flyeth into the Papistes holdes from whome he would be thought to dissent with a mortall hatred But in this point he is not to be endured and in other partes also hee borroweth his argumentes from the Papistes To conclude as Ierome said of Ambrose hee playeth with wordes and is lame in his sentences and is altogether vnworthy to bee confuted by anie man of learning If anie shall heere obiect that maister Whittakers was not Doctor when hee writ in this sorte My aunswere is this Hee writ this letter about the same time that he beganne to write against Campian when hè had attained alreadie vnto suche ripenesse of iudgement as there is no more daunger hee should nowe be altered in this that hee hath written of Cartwrightes booke then that he should alter heereafter from that trueth which he maintained about the same time against Campian And it is true that hee neuer gaue a righter censure of anie booke in his life Maister Cartwright must content himselfe with it and so must his followers He dependeth himselfe too much vppon Caluin and Beza and so do many amongest vs vppon him Such admiration of mens persons and of their learning must needes be very dangerous It hath euer been the cause of schisme And there was neuer more mischiefe like to grow of it then there is now For I know not how it commeth about but you shall seldome finde any who hath once tasted of the Disciplinary potion that is not forthwith possessed as it were with a wonderfull opinion not onely of the chiefe confectioners and fauourers of it but likewise of themselues And for all other men Fathers Councels newe or olde they little esteeme them if they make any thing against them I might heape vp in this place a number of obseruations which haue been made many hundreth yeares since as concerning suche like courses taken by many and howe they neuer gat to themselues any true reputation thereby but the contrary But I will spare them therein Onely I cannot choose but tell them that the auncient fathers were as wise and learned men as they are that the olde generall Councelles ought to be of as great credite with any but madde men as their conuenticles or Synodes that although wee ought to depend onely vpon the worde of God yet for the interpretation of it we may as safely follow the iudgementes of the auncient fathers of the first generall Councels and of some other learned men as of any of their chiefe patrones and maisters that howsoeuer our owne men doe thinke of themselues yet they are no better then other men Nay there are many equall to the best of them and many who are farre their superiours And I take it that he sheweth himselfe to be their best friendes who by telling them their wantes can bring them to some humilitie In which respect Maister Cartwright is to thanke Doctor Whittakers for signifiyng his iudgement touching that his great bundell of shreddes which some rashe and fond men doe so greatly admire It is most certaine that although the flattering of Parasites doth seeme to bee pleasant yet the woundes of a louer are much more profitable CHAP. XXX How falsly they alleadge the auncient fathers for their pretended parish Bishops and Elders BY that which hath been said in the 5. chapter it appeareth vnto you what litle help they are to look for in the ancient fathers toward the setting forth of the Geneua plat forme They talke of certaine steps traces of that hare in them but more they confesse in some places that they cānot find And yet notwithstanding