those purposes they are vayn and frivolous to be forborn in or about the worship of God which abhorrs all such vanity Lastly as we live in a very indifferent age for religion wherein the most are indifferent of what religion they are yea whither they be of any or none so no mervayl though men staÌ„d stisâ—y for indifferency of things And when they have amongst them such devises as they neither can approve for good nor wil condemn as evil they baptize them into the name of indifferent things But the truth is there is nothing simply indifferent in the vse but be it never so base or meane a ceremony circumstance or appurtenance to any solemn action it is eyther good or evill according to the furtherance or hinderance which it affoardeth to the mayn If it give furtherance to a naturall action it is naturally good if to a civil action civily good if to a religious action religiously good and so to be reputed otherwise it is vayne at the least and vanity as it is every where evil so is it in the matters of religion the taking of Gods name in vayn The next thing which Mr. Bern. vndertakes is to set downe how scrupulosity of conscience ariseth in men for which disease if it arise surely he sheweth himself a physitioÌ„ of no value for the healing of it but eyther smothereth the same vnder the authority of the Magistrate or dispenseth with it vpon good meanings or forceth it on without assurance or entangleth it with new doubts In the first enquiry which he wils men to make into themselves touching scrupulosity of coÌ„science amoÌ„gst other things he speaks thus If the ground vz. of doubting be not a iudgement enlightened convinced it is not trouble of conscunce but a dislike working discontentment vpon some other ground And this in the margent he wils the reader to note well as in deed he may note it and brand it too for il vnadvised counsayl For howsoever no mans conscience ought to scandalize or be troubled at the vse of lawful things for the larger conscience the better in that which is lawfull and that such doubts in the heart do arise from weaknes of fayth and weaknes of faith from want of knowledge yet since we all know but in part that our fayth is according to our knowledge and our conscience according to our fayth when a doubt or scruple ariseth in our hearts touching the lawfullnes of things yea though it be of very ignorance we must not passe it over lightly without trouble least it prove as a thorn in the heele and rankle inwardly Neyther are such scruples alwayes so easily removed as Mr. Bern. maks account Weak and tender consciences do oft tymes stick at a very strawe and there must they stand til the Lord give strength to step over The thing intended and promised by Mr. Bern. in the next place is satisfaction to the perplexed conscience and direction in that case which he is so far from performing by sound and resolved counsayl as were meet as in stead therof he propounds sundry doubtes and quaeries of his ovvn vvhich he leaves vnsatisfyed to the further entangling of his perplexed patient abusing also his reader too much in performing questions where he promiseth answers Wel howsoevr it be an easier thing to ty knotts then to loose them and that a simple man may cast a stone into a ditch vvhich a wise man cannot get out agayne yet are not those questions which Mr. Bern. propounds and so leaves vnanswered so dark doubtfull that a man needs take so long a jorney as the Queen of Sheba did for resolution The first quaere of weight being the 4. in order I vvil set down vvord for vvord though it be large because it is of speciall consideration The question then is Why a man should be more scrupulous to seek to have warrant playnly for every thing he doth in ecclesiasticall causes even about things indifferent more then about matters pollitick in civil affaires Men in these things know not the ground nor end of many things which they do yeeld vnto vpon a generall command to obey authority and knowing them not to be directly agaynst Gods will and yet every particular obedience in civill matters must be 1. of conscience 2. as serving the Lord so must every servant his maister which cannot be without knowledg perswasion that we do wel even in that particular which we obey in Which mâ—n vsually for conscience sake enquirâ— not into but do rest themselves with a generall commaundement of obeying lawful authority so it be not agaynst a playne commaundement of God What therefore doth let but that a man may so satisfie himselfe in matters Ecclesiasticall Though as playne a vvarrant must be had from Gods vvord for the things vve do in matters politick as in causes cclesiastical and that obedience in the one as vvell as in the other must be of conscience yet notvvithstanding the same vvord of God vvarranteth vnto vs clean and an other and different course of obedience in things civil and in things ecclesiasticall And the grosse ignorance or vngodly concealment of this difference is the cause of great confusion It must therefore be considered that this difference stands in tvvo poynts 1. the nature of the things and their proper ends 2. the povver immediate by which they are imposed from which two ariseth necessarily a third difference to be made in the conscience of obedience vnto them First then it cannot be denyed but matters civill and politick do come vnder the generall administration and goverment of the world and do respect the outward man for this present life On the other side matters ecclesiasticall come vnder the special administration of the Church and serve for the edification and building vp of the inward man to life eternall Secondly Magistrates and men in authority do enact and impose their civill decrees and ordinances upon theyr subiects by a Kingly and Lordly power as being Kings and Lords civilly over the outward man and his outward estate Math. 20. 25. and may by their Kingly and Lordly power commaund in their owne names and that vpon occasion to the civill hurt and hinderance of many of theyr people are therein to be obeyed notwithstanding Rom. 13. 1. 2. 3. c. Mat. 22. 21. But in causes ecclesiasticall not so There is no King of the Church but Christ who is the King of Saincts and Saviour of Syon no Lord but Iesus who is the onely Lord and Lawgiver of his Church And all his lawes statutes tend to the furtherance and advancemeÌ„t of every one of his subiects in their spiritual estate neyther King nor Kezar may or ought to impose any law to the least praeju dice of the same neyther ar they therin if they should to be obeyed Our civil liberty we may loose without syn without syn vndergo bodily domages
A IVSTIFICATION OF SEPARATION from the Church of England Against Mr Richard Bernard his invective INTITVLED The Separatists schisme By Iohn Robinson And God saw that the light was good and God separated between the light and between the darknes Gen. 1. 4. What communion hath light with darknes 2 Cor. 6. 14. Anno D. 1610. To the Christian reader TWo severall treatises good reader have been formerly published by several men in answer to Mr Bernards book yet have I thought it meet to adde a third not as able to speak more then they but intending something further namely an examination of the particulars one by one that so in all points the salve might be answerable vnto the soare applying my self therein to such a familiar and popular kinde of defence as Mr B. hath chosen for his accusations where the former answers onely intended a summary discovery of the insufficiency of his probabilities to disswade from reasons to disprove the things he opposeth The zeal Mr. B. manifesteth here and every where both in word and writing is exceeding great as all men know And surely fervent zeale in Gods cause is a temper wel befitting Gods servants neyther is there any more bastardly disposition to be found in a Christian then indifferency in religion It makes no matter of what religion the man is that is indifferent in it for Christ vvill spue out of his mouth as loathsome the lukevvarm whether wine or water Yet as the case of religion is most weighty so is the affection of zeale in it most dangerous if it be eyther pretended onely not in truth or preposterous and not according to knowledge And therefore as there is singular vse of this fyery zeal for these frozen times of ours so are we to take great heed that our fyre be kindled at the fyre of the altar vvhich came from heavē For as Luke Act. 2. 23. speakes of fyery tongues vvhich came from heaven so doth Iames 3. 6. speak of a tongue vvhich is set on fyre of hell And this we are the more carefully to mynd not onely because almost all men have taught theyr tongues in the generall to speak goodly words and that zealously also for advantage but more specially and with respect to the busines in hand for that many of the weaker sort have theyr tender harts rather affrighted from the truth of the Lord by the deep protestations and obtestations of their guids then any way stablished in those perplexed pathes wherein they walk with them by sound reasons Now as the Lord is to be intreated for those people that he would vouchsafe them wise and stable harts that they may try all things and hold that vvhich is good and neyther suffer themselves to be withheld nor withdrawn from the truth by any such semblances of zeale or other passion though never so solemn and seeming never so sincere so for theyr better direction herein I have thought it not amisse to commend vnto their godly harts two or three considerations by way of caution in this case First therefore it must be considered that there are some of that hoysterous and tempestuous disposition that they can doo nothing calmly or a litle theyr vnruly affections which should follow after leysurely do force on so violently theyr vnderstanding will and whol man as there is no stay with them but in all their motions they are like vnto those beasts which for the vnequall length of theyr hinder leggs cannot possibly goe but by leapes Such a stormy nature with a very litle zeal amongst may make a great stir in the world but is iustly to be suspected And that especially which is the 2. caution in such men as are suddaynly caryed and as it were transformed from one contrary to another without eyther competent tyme or means A suspitious course for all thing ordinarily whither in grace or nature are wrought by degrees and the passage from one extreme to another without due means as it can hardly be sound so can it not possibly be vnsuspected Now ther are many men to be found which are violent in all things but constant in none And though all things be with thē as the figs in Ieremyes tvvo baskets the good very good and the evill very evill yet are they ever shifting hands out of the one basket into the other Today they will lift vp and advance a cause and person to heaven and to morrow they will throw downe both it and him to the lowest hell It is good to have such men in a godly iealousy and there zeale with them And that chiefly which I desyre may be observed in the third place when this theyr zeale rises and falls as the tymes serve Almost all men will at tymes manifest zeal but the most have this gift withall that they wil be sure to take the strongest syde or that part at least which hath some hope of prevayling And so whylst there remaynes hope of bearing things over at the breast they are very forward and fervent in there courses but when that hope shaketh theyr edg is of and they turne theyr backs shamefully vpon the truth yea and oft tymes theyr faces agaynst it And herevpon it comes to passe that many formerly great advauncers of the cause of reformation have of late tymes not onely fouly forsaken but violently opposed the same both in us and them also amongst themselves which doe in any measure desyer it publishing theyr books vnto the world so filled with empty words and swelling vanityes as they not onely bewray the weaknes of theyr cause but the evill and corrupt disposition of theyr hearts as rather striving to manifest theyr servil◠affections for insinuations into the favours of the myghty then to bring any thing of weight for the conviction of the adversary The application of this I leave to the godly and wise reader as he shall see iust cause And so leaving those things which are more generall I desyre in particular and for the present purpose that the christian reader take knowledg of this one thing that as the pretence of zeale in the forward Ministers against all corruptions is as a thick mist holding the eyes of many wel mynded from seing the truth so the person with whom I now particularly deal trusts to this insinuation above all others conveyghing himself vnder this colour into the harts of the simple and hereby making way most effectually not onely for his sage-seeming counsels advertisements for the quenching of their affections towards the truth but also for his idle guesses and likelyhoods with such personall comparisons and imputations as wherewith his book is stored to alienate mens harts from it But the godly reader is to consider that to accept the person in judgement is not good especially in the cause of the Lord and that the faith of our glorious Lord Iesus is not to be held in respect of persons but
fashion vs Mr B. and all others may see the dissimilitude betwixt them vs in the refutation of that supposed consimilitude A third evill for which Mr B. would bring our cause into suspition is The matter of defending our opinions and proving our assertions by strange and forced expositions of scriptures Where he also notes in the margent that the truth needs no such ill means to mainteyne it What the means are by which the Prelacy against which we witnes is mainteyned all men know The flattering of superiours the oppressing of inferiours the scoffing reviling imprisoning persequuting vnto banishment and death of such as oppose it are the weapoÌ„s of the Prelates warfare by which they defend their tottering Babel And were it not for the arm of â—lesh by which they hold and to which they trust they and their pomp would vanish away like smoke before the wynde so little weight have they or theyrs in the consciences of any But let us see wherin we mislead the reader by deceiptful allegations of scriptures 1. In quoting scriptures by the way that is for things coÌ„ming in upon occasion but nothing to the mayne poynt c. And wherefore is this deceiptfull dealing thus to alleadge the scriptures Because the simple reader is hereby made beleve that all is spokeÌ„ for the question controverted He is simple careles also that wil not search the scriptures before he beleve that they ar brought to prove if he any way suspect it which who so doth can not be deceived as is here insinuated It were to be wished we both spake and wrote the language of Canaan and none other and not onely to vse but even to note the scripture phrase soberly may be to the information and edification of the reader 2. By vrging commandements admonitioâ—s exhortations dehortations reprehensions and godly examples to prove a falsity What is falsity but that which is contrary to truth and so the word of God being truth whatsoever is contrary vnto any part of it whither commaundement admonition exhortation c. is false so far forth as it is contrary The similitude you take from a naturall child who for his disobedience is not to be reputed a false child but no good child is like the rest of the your similitudes The proportion holds not Men may have such children as ever were are and wil be disobedient to their dying day yet they remayn theyr children whether they will or no but if any of Gods childâ—en prove disobedient and will not be disclaymed he can dischilde them for bastards as they are and the true children of the Divil Ioh. 8. 44. 3. In alledging Scriptures not to prove that for which to the simple it seems to be alledged but that which is without controversy taking the thing in questioÌ„ for granted For this I take to be his meaning though he expresse it ill The instance he brings of one of vs cyting Act. 20. 21. to prove that all truth is not taught in the Church of England is I am perswaded if not worse mistaken by him For who would bring Pauls example to shew what the Ministers of England do and not rather what they should do what they do is knowne well enough and how both they in preaching the will of God and the people in obeying it are stinted at the Bishops pleasure 4 By bringing in places setting forth the invisible Church and holynesse of the members to set forth the visible Church by as being proper thereto as 1 Pet. 2. 9. 10. That the Apostle here speaketh not of the invisible but of the visible Church appeareth not by our bare affirmation which we might set gaynst Mr B. naked contradiction yea though he bring in D. Allison in the margent to countenance the matter but by these reasons 1. Peter being the Apostle of the Iewes wrote vnto them whose Apostle he was vvhom he knew dispersed through Pontus Galatia c. 1 Pet. 1. 1. But Peter was not the Apostle of the invisible but of the visible Church which he knew so dispersed where the invisible Church is onely knowne unto God 2 Tim. 2. 19. 2. The Apostle vseth the words of Moses to the visible Church of the Iewes Ex. 19. 6. which do therefore well agree to the visible Church vnder the gospell whose excellency graces and holynes do surmount the former by many degrees 3. Peter wrytes to a Church wherein were Elders and a flock depending vpoÌ„ them to be fed governed by them 1 Pet â— 1. 2. 3. which to affirm of the invisible Church is not onely a visible but even a palpable error 4. The Apostle wrytes to them which had the word preached amongst them Chap. 1. 25. And this Mr B. himselfe pag. 118. 119. makes a note and testimony of the visible Church and to that pupose quotes the former chap. v. 23. as he doth also this very chap. ver 5. which is the same with v. 9. 10. to prove the form of the visible Church And thus I hope it appeares to all men vpon what good groundes this man thus boldly leadeth vs with deceiptfull dealing in the scriptures And this instance I desire the reader the more diligeÌ„tly to observe as being singled out by Mr B. as a pickt witnes against vs countenanced by D. Allisons concurring testimony but especially because it poynts out the Apostolick Churches clean in contrary colours to the English Synagogues being vnholy and prophane and this is the cause why Mr B. and others are so loth to haue this Scripture ment of the visible Church 5. By inferences and references as if this be one this must follow and this Mr B. calles a deceiveable and crooked waye for the intangling of the simple To this I have answered formerly and do agayne answer that necessary consequences inferences are both lawfull necessary If Mr B. had to deale with a Papist agaynst Purgatory or with an Anabaptist for the baptizing of Infants he should be compelled except I be deceived to draw his arrowes out of this quiver And what are consequences regulated by the word which sanctifieth all creatures but that sanctified vse of reason wil any reasonable man deny the vse and discourse of reason If all the things which Iesus did had been written the world could not have conteyned the books if all the dutyes which ly vpon the Church to performe had been written in expresse termes as Mr B. requires a world of worlds could not contayne the books which should have been written Neyther are inferences references iustly made any way to be accounted wyndings but playne passages to the truth troden before vs by the Lord Iesus and all his holy Apostles which scarce alledge one scripture of three out of Moses and the Prophets but by way of inference as all that will may see But the truth is Mr Bern. hath
our selves our witnes is not true but if the word of God beare witnes with vs and against you it must stand And for the advauntage which you suppose you have gayned at vs where we acknowledge our differences to be onely your corruptions it will nothing at all enrich you or better your Church For there are corruptions essentiall and in the very causes constitutive matter forme aswell as els where there are corruptions which eat out the very heart of a thing as well as such as hinder the working onely or steyn the work And we may truely say of all the abhominable doctrines and devises in Rome that they are but so many corruptions of those pure truthes holy ordinances which that Church at the first received from Christ the Lord. And for your similitude of a man whom you say corruptions make not a false man but a corrupt man you are deceived in it whether you consider a man naturally or morally Naturally what is death but the corruption of the man as generatio corruptio are opposed And what is rottennes but the corruption of the body Now these do more then make a corrupt man or corrupt body they do destroy the very being But consider a man morally as in the case of religion he must be considered then morall corruptions vices do eyther make a false man or els a traytor a theif a cousener is a true man which patronage I hope Mr B. will not vndertake The second rank of reasons which Mr B. brings against us are certayne greivous sinns wherewith he sayth all in our way are polluted for which according to our own principle no man may ioyn himselfe vnto vs. The sins he nameth are a renunciation of Gods mercy and of all good things and men with them vnthankfulnes to God and the Church spirituall vncharitablenes audacious censuring a desire to hinder yea to extinguish all the spirituall good they publiquely enioy and a wish of destruction vnto the people and the like Greivous accusations certaynly but if to accuse be to convince who shal be innocent not the Lord Iesus himselfe nor his holy Apostles whose examples in vndergoing the like reproches and in patient bearing of the same at the hands of wicked men if we had not before our eyes eyther our harts would break in vs for sorrow or we should be provoked to render reproach for reproach so sin against God Our first supposed sin is that wofull entrance before named for which I refer the reader to that which hath been before answered But they in England sayth Mr B. enter by baptisme renouncing the Divill and sin So do the Papists as loud as they and with as many godfathers and godmothers crossing and blessing themselves against the Divill and all his works as much as they do And for the renunciation of Gods mercy and all good men and good things in them in the Church of England because we refuse communion there it is a foule charge layd vpon vs but to which we are no more lyable then were the Levites when they forsook Ieroboams Church and repayred to Ierusalem the place which the Lord had chosen For in Israell which they forsook were to be found both good persons and things 1 King 14. 13. and 19. 18. Now where in the last place Mr B. chargeth vs not to make vnclean what God hath cleansed Act. 10. 1â— we on the contrary advise him not to account that clean which sinn and Antichrist doth defyle Let him or any other man on earth shew vnto vs by the word of God that a Church gathered and consisting of persons for the most part defyled with all manner of impiety is clensed by God or that the dayly sacrifice the service book is as a lamb without spot or that the spirituall courts so miscalled are sanctified of God for the government of his kingdome on earth or that the Court keepers the Archflamins and Flamins the Provinciall and Diocesan Bishops with theyr Chauncelers Commissaryes Archdeacons and other officers are his holy ones vpon whome he hath put his Vrim and Thummim and then let vs beare our rebuke if we do not returne to the Church of England and humble ourselves vnder her hand as Hagar did her selfe vnder the hand of her mistresse Gen. 16. 9. The second sinn wherewith Mr B. chargeth vs is our great vnthankfulnes 1. to God that begat vs by his word eyther by denying our conversion â—r els accounting it a false conversion 2. towards the Church of England our mother whom we desire to make a whore before Christ her husband condemn â—â—r c. And this accusation he shutteth vp with most bitter execrations against vs as vnworthy to breath in the ayre For the thankfulnes of our harts vnto the Lord our God for his vnspeakeable mercies we leave it vnto him that knowes the hart and for the manifestation of it vnto men we referr them to our entyre though weak obedience to the whol revealed wil of God and ordinances of Christ Iesus which we take to be the most acceptable sacrifice of thankfulnes which by man can be offered to the Lord. And for our personall conversion in the Church of England we deny it not but do and alwayes have so done iudge and professe it true there and so was Luthers conversion true in the Church of Rome els could not his separation from Rome have been of faith or accepted of God The same may be sayd of all the persons and Churches in the world which have forsaken Rome Our third imagined sinn is spirituall vncharitablenes appearing in our deep censures vpon all at least not inclinable vnto vs condemning such as know not our way as blinded by the God of this world the Divell such as seâ— it yeeld not vnto it as worldlings fearefull convinced in conscience going on in presumptuous sin such as forsake it having formerly enclyned vnto it Apostates and if they oppose it godles persequuters hunters after soules such as shall certainly grow worse worse so as men shall say God is revenged on them c. If any one man have thus peremptorily defined eyther in word or writing as Mr B. witnesseth it was that one mans fault and is not to be imputed to the rest of vs more then Mr B. most malicious hateful accusatioÌ„s in this book to all the Ministers people in the Church of Engl. wherof I doubt not but thowsaÌ„ds are ashamed and to which they would be more vnwilling to subscribe then he to the Bishops canons I for mine own part onely exhort all men in all places as they look to be approved at that day when the secrets of all hearts shal be disclosed that they deale faithfully in the Lords busines take heed they neyther forbeare through partiall praejudice or fleshly feare to inquire after the truth nor with hould it in vnrighteousnes if they have found it
be saved Rom. 10. 10. Thirdly if the new Testament speak of ordeyning Elders in the Church then doth it necessarily conclude yea expresly affirm that there were Churches before Elders were ordeyned in them But the first is manifest Act. 14. 23. therefore the second Neyther can Mr Bâ—shift of the place by saying such assemblyes are called Churches by Anticipation any more then the Papists can the scripture 1 Cor 11. 26. against transubstantiation by alledging that the Apostle speaks by Posticipation For why may not the Papists as well answer that Paul calles Christs body bread not because it is bread but because it was bread before the words of consecration as Mr B that Luke calls the assemblyes without officers Churches not because they were so but were so to be after the Elders were ordeyned amongst them neyther is it true which you affirme for confirmation of your distinction that heaven and earth were so called before they were Gen. 1. 1. the meaning of Moses onely is that God created heaven and earth first and when before they were not If yet it be further answered by any that the Church Act. 14. had Apostles over them it must be remembred that Luke in that place and action of ordination notes out three distinct orders of people the Apostles ordeyning Elders the Elders ordeyned and the Churches in which the Apostles ordeyned Elders Of the same nature is the fourth Argument grounded vpon 1 Cor. 12. 28. where God is sayd to have appointed or set in the Church Apostles Prophets Teachers necessarily implying a Church before wherein they were appointed as a Sheriffe appointed in a shyre a Maior in a City a Constable in a Parish a Steward in a familie do necessarily presuppose the Shyre City Parrish Familie wherein they are appointed And indeed where should the Lord set his stewards but in his familie Is any societie capable of the Lords officers but his corporation Is not the Eldership an ordinance given to the Church so the Elders called the Elders of the Church In the Church is not an ordinance given to the Elders nor ever called their Church in the whole New Testament Fifthly they with whom the Lord makes his Covenant to be their God and to have them his people to dwel amongst them as in his temple which have right to the promises of Christ and to his presence they are the Church of God of Christ. Gen. 17. 7. Lev. 26. 11. 12. Mat. 18. 17. 20. Apoc. 1. 11. 13. Heb. 8. 16. But a company of faythful people though they have no officers amongst them may be received into Covenant with God may be his temple and have him dwell amongst them may have right to Christ and to his promises presence except we wil say they may not be gathered in Christs name may not be called may not come out from among unbeleevers nor separate themselves touch none unclean thing Mat. 18. 17. 20. Act. 2. 39. 2 Cor. 6. 16. 17. except they have Ministers going before them For they that may separate themselves from unbeleevers may be the temple of God that is the true visible church which the temple typed out Men are not to come out of Babylon and there to stand stil remember the Lord a farr of but must resort to the place where he hath put his name for which they need not go eyther to Ierusalem or to Rome or beyond the seas they may find Siòn the Lords mountain prepared on the top of every hil If they as lively stones couple themselves together by voluntary profession covenant they are a spirituall building the Lords Temple 6. If a company of faythful people without officers be not a Church then if all the officers of a Church should dye or fall away the Church should be nullified and become no church and to come nearer home graunting for a while the parish of Worksop to be a company of faythfull people if Mr Bernard should leave his Vicaridge for a better then the church of Worksop should be dischurched and remayne a Church no longer and thus an assembly might be Churched and vnchurched and Churched agayn every week in the time of persecution or plague by having and loosing and recovering againe her officers and thus the officers should not be the eyes or tongue of the body for the body remaynes a true though an imperfect body without them but the head of it yea the Pope though he hold himself the head of the Church yet acknowledgeth it a Church without him and in the time of vacancy Wee read Rev. 2. 5. that the Lord threatens to remove the candlestick from the Ephesians except they amend Now the candlestick is the Church chap. 1. 20. and to remove the candlestick is to dischurch the assembly or to wipe it out of the beadrowl of Churches Here is sin the discharging an assembly but that the death of the officers should do it is no where found We will acknowledge the Ministers to be the lights starres candles in the the candlestick the Church that the Ministers death or fall is the removing of the light in a great measure but we may not graunt them to be the Candlestick that is the Church wherein they are set as 1 Cor. 12. 28. which may stand still though they fall 7. If a company of Saynts where no officers are be not a true visible Church then may they have no visible communion together eyther publick or private the reason is because the communion of saynts is an effect or property of the Church and the Church a cause of it the invisible Church of invisible communion and the visible Church of visible communion And as we can have no fellowship with Christ in his merits and other works of mediation till we be in our persons ioyned vnto him by faith and grafted in him as the braunches in the vine so neither can we have communioÌ„ one with another in any spirituall grace or work till we be vnited one to another in love as the members of the body vnder the head Communion in works whether naturall civil or religious doth necessarily presuppose vnion of persons Yea if such a company be not a Church I see not how their seed can have right to baptism no nor how their own baptism caÌ„ be accounted true in the right ends vses of it For 1. baptism is within and not without the Church Ephe. 4. 4. 5. Secondly it is the seal of the covenant which is the form of the Church to the faithfull and their seed Act. 2. 38. 39. Thirdly it is of the members into the body of Christ 1 Cor. 12. 12. 13. Lastly where the essentiall causes of a Church are to be found viz. matter and form there is a Church But this may be in such assemblies as have no officers ergo The former proposition is evident in it self for the essentiall causes give being vnto the th
〈…〉 and it haâ—h the being from them The 2. I gather from Mr B. own graunt where treating of the causes and properties of the Church he makes the true matter such as professe Christ Iesus their onely saviour and the form to be the vniting of men to God and one to another visibly Now except he will say which God forbid that none may make profession of faith and be vnited to Christ without officers he cannot deny but there may be and so be called a Church without them For all vnited vnto Christ the head are members of the body which is the Ch and so the whol assembly ioyntly considered is an whole and entyre body and Church So that to deny an ordinary assembly or communion of Christians to be a Christian Church is an vnchristian opinion And here I entreat the indifferent reader to consider whether these mens wayes be equall or no. When we deny their assemblies to be true visible Churches though they consist for the most part of prophane and vngodly persons vnder the government of a Provinciall or Diocesan Bishop and the Ministery of a dumb or prophane Preist as the most do to which also the best is subiect within one moneth they complayn of vs as most injurious detracters and yet will not they acknowledge any assembly of faithful holy people onely if vnfurnished for a time of officers to be a true Church or capable of that denomination But let not the harts of Gods servants be discouraged he is no accepter of mens persons he hath not tyed his power and presence to any order or office in the world but accepted of them that feare him and work righteousnes hating the assemblyes of the wicked and all their sacrifices Vpon this point I haue insisted the longer partly because it is the ground of the other truthes to be handled in their places and partly in detestation of the vnsufferable pryde of this Prelacy and Preisthood which will have the very life of all Churches to hang on the breath of their nostrels yea I may safely say on their lusts if they dy yea or forsake their charges in never so fleshly respects their Churches are dissolved at least during the vacancy and so the brethren dismembred from being of the visible body of Christ. But so far are the officers from being the formall cause of the Church as is intended as they are in truth no absolutely necessary appurtenance vnto it The power indeed to enioy them is an essentiall property seated in the body which may braunch out it self as God gives fit means into officers accordingly which if they prove unfruitful it may also accordingly lop or break off And so farr is the Holy Ghost from giving countenance to this opinion that the Officers make the Church as when he speakes distinctly of the body and officers and considers them severally he calls the body the Church excluding the Elders as appeares in these amongst many oâ—her scriptures Act. 14. 23. 15. 4. and 20. 17. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 5. 15. And the reason is because the Church is essentially in the saincts as the matter subject formed by the coverâ—ant unto which the officers are but adjuncts not making for the being but for the welbeing of the Church and furtherance of her fayth by their service The second poynt now comes to be manifested which is that two or three faythful persons joyned unto the Lord in the fellowship of the Gospel have immediate interest to Christ in all his ordinances Now least any should stumble at these words two or three ioyned or gathered together as it seems Mr. B. would hereby take advantage to discountenance so small a number it must be coÌ„sidered that two or three thus gathered together have the same right with two or three hundred Neyther the smallnes of the number nor meannes of the persons can prejudice their right When the Lord did chose one nation from all other nations he chose the smallest amongst them fewest in number And though now Christ have opened a way for all nations yet is it a narrow way and which few finde especially in the first planting or replanting of Churches of which Christ speaks most properly in which regard also he likens the the kingdome of heaven or Church to a grain of mustard-feed which is the least of all seeds but yet hath vertue in it to bring forth a tree in whose boughes the birds of heaven may build their nests And against this exception of discouragement Christ himself hath provided a coÌ„fortable remedie in speaking expresly of two or three to whom he hath given his power and promised his presence Now for the poynt it self the truth whereof is sufficiently manifested by that which hath been â—ormerly layed down If a company of faythfull people though without officers be the true Ch. and body of Christ and Israel of God then to that company apperteynes the covenants of promise the oracles of God are committed untothem and to them are given his word statutes and iudgments so they may freely enjoy them amongst themselves in the order by Christ prescribed without any forreyn Ministers for Mediators II. They that have received Christ have received the power of Christ and his whole power for Christ and his power are not devided nor one part of his power from another But every company or communion of faythful people have received Christ. Ioh. 1 12. Rom. 8. 32. Isa. 9. 6. and with him power and right to enjoy him though all the world be against it in al the meanes by which he doth communicate himself unto hiâ— Church III. When the Scriptures would give us to understand the near union betwixt Christ and his Church and the free and full title which he hath given her in himself and all his most rich and pretious benefits they do teach the same by resemblances of most streight and immediate conjunction as of that between the vine and the branches the head and the body the husband and the wise and so as the branches do receive and draw the sap and juice immediately from the vine and as the body receiveth sense and motion from the head immediately and as the wife hath immediate right to and interest in her husbands both person and goods for her use though she may and ought to use the service of her husbands and own servants as they can be had for convenient purposes so hath every true visible Church of Christ direct â—nd immediate interest in and title to Christ himselfe and the whole new Testament every ordinance of it without any vnnaturall monstrous and adulterous interposition by any person whatsoever betwixt the vyne and the branches the head and the body the husband the wife which are Christ and his Church though but two or three gathered together in his name as hath formerly been manifested If all things be the Churches even the ministers
have therefore power for officers also which they may chuse and so enjoy all their liberties by their help so in the spirituall corporation the Church there is alwayes the whole power of Christ residing which therefore may call officers for the vse of it to which it is sufficient that it can without officers vse this power for things simply necessary as for the receiving in of members by profession of faith and confession of sinnes for the aedifying of them by exhortations coÌ„forts in the ordinance of prophecying and so for casting them out by excommunication which fall from their former profession or confession The sum of the 11. and 12. Reas is that this power or liberty of the multitude to judge in Church matters overthrowes the power authority of Christian Magistrates in the Church to whom the people are commaunded to be subiect both in the old and new testament And doth not the ill advised man consider that his own opinion making the officers of the Church alone the Church and giving them power to judge in Church matters without the rest of the body doth as much overthrow the authority of Christian Magistrates as ours in making the officers and body with them the Church having power to judge together yea much more for if the ecclesiasticall officers alone be the Church Math. 18. and so must judge and censure sinnes which is the thing he pleads for then â— the civil magistrate simply excluded where wee reputing the whole body the Church do necessarily include the Christian Magistrate as being one of the Church Secondly is Mr B. and his brother Bell whom he quotes in the 〈…〉 gent to ignorant as they cannot distinguish betwixt civil authority and judgements in Church matters and that authority and those judgements which are ecclesiasticall The Christian magistrate as he is a brother may be censured ecclesiastically by the Church whereof he is a member and yet the same person as a magistrate whether of the Church or not of the Church or cast out of the Church may censure and punish civilly the whole Church and every member of it if there be cause whether in matters of the Church or common wealth In the 17. reason Mr B. would fasten vpon vs an absurdity in making the body both to govern and to be governed and so to be both Lord and servant Prince and subiect c. It is your self Mr Ber. that commit the absurdity which I thus manifest The Church must be governed sayth the scripture and coÌ„mon sense But the Church is the officers Math. 18. sayth Mr Bernard Wherevpon it followeth that the Officers must be governed And to your reason whomsoever you count Lords and servants and whosoever are Lords and servants in your Church I know by the scriptures that in the Church of Christ the officers are servants in that relation the Church may be called a Lord and if Christ truely call the sonne of man Lord of the sabbath bycause the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath may we also call the Church in a respect Lord of the Officers for the Officers are for the Church and not the Church for them And yet we hold the same officers which are servants to be governours also for the government of the Church is merely a Church-service as all not carnally blinded with ambition or superstition will graunt with me Now where you affirm Reas 18. that the people are never termed by any name insinuating soveraignty but that the Ministers are you speak partially on both sides would you have the Ministers that is the servants of the Church to be her soveraigns The names you bring as most advauntageable argue no such thing They are Overseers as the watchmen are for the citie Elders for thâ—ir gravity Fathers in respect of the seed of the word by which they bâ—ge to conversion and therefore Paul makes himself he onely father of the Corinthians bycause he had been the instrument of their conversion notwithstanding all other teachers whomsoever to whom in that respect he opposeth himselâ— as not being their fathers And so men out of office may be as wel the fathers of others as they in office However fatherhood argues no soveraignty And yet the holy Apostles Prophets thought not much vpon all occasions to account the saints their brethren and themselves theirs And I would you wist whose names Iohn Bale in his Paraphrase vpon the Revelation ch 17 vers 3. thought your Grace your Lordship your Fatherhood to be And where further you name the brethren sheep the household of faith the wife or spouse in respect of the officers for that is the consideration in hand therein you deal very deceiptfully for the brethren or saynts are not the Officers sheep houshold wife or spouse but Christs betwixt whom and them the comparison is not Lastly your affirmatioÌ„ that the saynts are called Kings Rev. 1. 6. not for any outward power over meÌ„ but for the inward power of Gods spirit saÌ„ctifying the elect by which as Kings they rule over their own corruptions is an ill glosse corrupting the text For in the same place they are called Preists also Now as they are not Preists only for themselves but for their brethreÌ„ for whom they are to offer vp the spiritual sacrifices of prayer thaÌ„ksgiving so neyther are they Kings for themselves alone but for their brethren also having the power of Christ whereby to iudge them the keyes of the kingdome to bind and loose them in the order by him prescribed These things thus layd down occasionally I return to the point And first against the figurative exposition of these words Tell the Church I do alledge two approved Rules and Canon in divinity for exposition of scriptures The former is that scriptures must be expounded according to the largest extent of the words except there be some apparent restreynt of them The second is that they must be expounded simply and according to the letter except necessity compell to depart froÌ„ the litterall sence to a figurative And therefore since there appeares not any such necessity as is pretended eyther of figure or restreynt the words must be taken in their largest and simplest meaning With these rules I desire the reader to beare in mind that which hath been formerly observed to the purpose in hand and amongst other things that the officers are to govern the Church in the ceÌ„sures as in all other actions of communion and therefore cannot be the Church that every true Ch hath or is capable of a ministery over it and so there should be a minister of ministers that the order of officers in the Church is an order of servants and the order of saynts an order of Kings which is the highest order in the Church fitting vpon the thrones of David for judgement whom the ministers are to serve in guiding going before them in and
Church though cast out for notorious wickednes for many of them hold these mayn truthes and many more yea more then Mr B. himself doth Then is the true matter of the world and lims of the Divell for such are all wicked persons whatsoever truth they professe Ioh. 8. 44. and 15. 19. Rom. 6. 16 2 Tim. 2. 26. 1 Ioh. 3. 8. 12. true matter and members of the Church They that are Christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts of â—â— Gal. 5. 24. therfore persons visibly wicked are not visibly Christs and so not visibly or in respect of men true matter of the Church or members of his body That which destroyes the Church makes it become eyther a false Church or no Church at all cannot make a true Church or be the true matter whereof it is made for these things are contrary But wicked men whatsoever they professe in word make the Church a Synagogue of Sathan and very Babylon which is an habitation of Divils and hold of all foul spirits Rev. 18. 2. provokes God to remove the candle-stick that is to dischurch a people and to spew them out of his mouth Rev. 2. 5. and 3. 16. Mr B. had need be a skilful workman which can make a true Ch of Christ of that matter which makes the true Churches planted by the Apostles themselves eyther false or no Churches at all They which are true visible matter of the Church or true visible christians have Christ for their King visibly or in outward appearance and so far as men can judge for by visible we mean that which may be seen of men opposed to invisible which onely God seeth for Christ is not devided but look to whom he is a Preist to save them a Prophet to teach theÌ„ to the same persons he is also a K. to reign rule over them but he is not a King to any ungodly ones neyther doth he but Satan and their lusts reign over them If profession in word with a wicked conversation make true matter of the Church then an apparantly a flat contradiction a known sinne that which makes men more abhominable makes them true matter of the Church For he that sayth he hath fellowship with God or beleeves in Christ and yet walkes in darknes doth ly and doth not truely 1 Ioh. 1. 6. He that professeth Christ to be his saviour and doth wickednes contradicts himself for Christ is not a saviour of the wicked sinns against the 4. coÌ„mandement in taking Gods name in vayn Other reasons might be brought for the â—â—iction of this soul prophane errour for truth vnanswerable for nuÌ„ber sufficieÌ„t to make a volume but these may suffice for the present some other I will intermingle as occasion shal be offered in the examination of that which Mr B. brings for the confirmation of his assertion For which end he sets down 4. Reasons The sum of the three first is thus much viz that Christ his Apostles preaching the gospell such as beleeved the same and made profession of it and of their faith were without stay or let received into the Church as true matter We are as farr from denying this order of gathering Churches as you are from enjoying it Mr B you needed not to have made three distinct proofs of this which no man denyes nor to have brought so many scriptures as you do for the confirmation of that which wee graunt with you and practise without you But herein you deceive the simple reader in that you separate and disioyn those things which then were and alwayes should be ioyned together and they are faith and repentance These two ioyntly did Christ himself preach and Iohn Baptist before him and the Apostles after him and these two were preached to and required of every one both man and woman which was admitted into the Church Mat. 3. 2. 6. Mark 1. 15. Act. 19. 4. Luke 13. 3. 5. 24. 47. Act. 2. 28. 8. 37. 19. 18. But now bycause faith repentance are inward graces resydeing in the hart and known to God alone which knoweth the hart and that the profession and confession of them are the ordinary meanes by which these hidden and invisible graces are manifested made visible vnto men there was no cause but they which made this profession to men in sincerity so far as men could judge should by men be deemed and acknowledged for true members of Christ and fit matter for the Lords house And so if by any other means men manifested themselves to have fayth and holynes wrought in them though they made neyther profession of faith nor confession of sinnes yet were they and so ought to be intitled and admitted to the liberties of the Church as appeareth Act. 10. 44. 46. 47. And vppon this very ground also it is that the children of the faithfull are of the Church and baptised though they make no profession of faith at all bycause the scriptures declare them to be within the gratious covenant of Gods mercy and love and vnder the promises of the gospel and so by vs to be reputed holy Gen. 6. â— 17. 7. 8. 9. 10. Deut. 29. 10. 11. 12. 13. Act. 2. 39. Rom. 11. 16. 1 Cor. 7. 14. so that it is not for the profession of faith ex opere operate or bycause the party professing vtters so many words that he is to be admitted into the Church but bycause the Church by this his profession and other outward appearances doth probably in the judgement of charity which is not causlesly suspitious deem him faithfull and holy in deed as in shew he pretendeth But that a man of a known lewd conversation appearing still to remain in his sinne whatsoever in word he professeth should be received into the Church out of which he ought to be cast though he were one of it or should have baptism administred vnto him which is as Mr B. rightly confirms from the scriptures the seale of the forgivenes of sinns of new birth of salvation being judged not to have the forgivenes of sinns nor to be born a new nor to be in the estate of salvation were a most desperate and prophane practise then which I know not whither the Divel hath brought any other into the Church more derogatory to Gods glory or prejudiciall to mans salvation This were to make the way of the kingdome of heaven broad enough by which al the Atheists in the world might enter into the Church and certaynly would every one of them if the Magistrate should vse his compulsive power as it is in Engl at this day yea a parrat might be taught to say over so many words yea the Divel himself though he were known so to be would not stick for his advantage to vtter them and so might be true matter for Mr Ber Church The material templi was to be built onely of
to all Gods curses but the Lord takes occasion by the sinns of the parents to execute his iustice vpon the children in whose punishments he also punisheth the parents themselves after a sort The next thing I observe in this argument is that you affirm the children of the Apostate Israelites to be the children of God by circumcision and infants now to be Christs by baptism which you say also constitutes the Church against which Popish and anabaptistical errour I do iustly except Popish I call it for that the papists imagine that by baptism their children are made Christian soules and in signe of that they have the font ever standing at the Church dore so do the Anabaptists make baptism the form of the Church which you call the constitution as indeed the form of a thing constituteth it and giveth being vnto it Wherof if I my self were perswaded I could not defend the baptism received eyther in Rome or England but I must withall iustify both the one the other for the true Church of Christ. But against this vnsound opinion both theirs and yours I will lay down certayn arguments playnly proving the contrary And first it is the covenant of God which makes the Church as you your selfe both affirm prove pag. 277. of your 2 book of which covenant you also graunt in this place baptism to be the visible seal as was also circumcision in those tymes and therefore it is not the covenant it selfe but is after it in the order both of nature and tyme. Secondly the Lord had his Church before eyther circumcision or baptism were appoynted which is also one and the same in essence from the beginning to the end of the world which it couldnot be if eyther circumcision or baptism were parts constitutive or essentiall of it Thirdly the Lord made his covenant and so admitted them into the Church wâ—â—h Abraham and his seed to be his and their God in their ages and generations so that he children of Abraham and of the Iewes were not without the Lord covenant and him to be their God til the tyme of their circumcision which was the eighth day but were born yea begot in the covenant and an holy seed and therfore the manchilde not circumcised the eight day is sayd to have broken the Lords covenant wherof circumcision was asigne To this also add that the Lord did admit into 〈◊〉 with himself accepting them to be his people all and every one of 〈◊〉 Israelites in the wildernes where notwithstanding all of them in comparison were vncircumcised Ios. 5. 2. 3. 4. 5. Fourthly if baptism were the constitution of the Church as Mr B. speaks then were all heretiques and schismatiques baptised with water into the name of the Father Son and H. Ghost true christians and their assemblyes true Churches of Christ so had the â— Sâ—â—ceâ—â—tes been a true Church by circumcision and so of the Isâ—â—â—elites or Agarians which have retayned circumcision to this day the same may be sayd of the Eâ—â—â—ites and Edomites which were notwithstanding as far from being true Churches as Mr B. is from the truth of God in writing aâ— he doth A fourth consideration is to be had of an affirmation by you peremptorily and absolutely made as though it were without all contradiction or limitation in the third argument and that is that the baptism in the Romish Church is true baptism Touching which I do commend vnto the godly reader this distinction Baptism is to be considred of vs in a twofold respect first nakedly and â—â— the essential causes the matter water and the form the washing with water into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the H. Ghost and in this respect I confesse true baptism both in England and Rome Secondly it is to be considered of vs 〈…〉 as they speak clothed with such appurtenances as wherewith the Lord hath appoynted it to be administred as for example a lawfull person by whom a right subiect vpon which a true communion wherein it is to be ministred dispensed in which regards neyther I can approve it nor Mr B. manifest it to be true eyther in Rome or England When the house of the Lord at Ierusalem was destroyed by the Câ—aldees and the vessels therof together with the people caryed into Babylon they remayned still both in nature and right the vessels of the Lords house though in respect of their vse or rather abuse they became Belshazzars quaâ—fing bowles So is it in the destruction of the spirituall house of the Lord the Church by the spirituall Babylonians and in the vsurpation and abuse of the holy vessels and in special of this holy vessel of baptism Yet is there in this poynt a further consideration to be had of vs vnto which both the scriptures and our own experience do lead vs namely that as the Lord hath his people in Babylon his I mean both in respect of election and of personal sanctification so hath he for their sakes there preserved notwithstanding all the apostacy and confusion which is found in it sundry his holy truthes and ordinances amongst which baptism is one But as this his people being commingled with the Babylonians in one visible communion cannot be called the true visible Church of God so neyther can these ordinances in the administration of them be called the true visible ordinances of Christ and of his Church but as the Lords people are commaunded to goe out of her and to separate themselves and so to build the Lords house a new in Ierusalem or rather themselves into a new spiritual house for him to dwel in so are they to bring with them out of Babylon these ordinances and in particular this ordinance of baptism and to enioy the same being sanctifyed in the right vse and order All which was livelily shadowed out in the materiall temple and ordinances as appeareth Ezra 1. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. and 5. 13. 14. 15. And this also may serv for answer to that you bring in your second reason for the iustification of Rome in respect of the truthes of doctrine and ordinances there In your fourth argument there is litle but the answer of which I formerly spake vnto the second to wit that antichristianism begun in Christianity which is true as sowernes begins in wine til by degrees it turn it into vineger and as other haeresies begun in the Eastern Churches which have notwithstanding long since eaten out the hearts of them that they cannot nor could not of long tyme be called the true Churches of Christ. True also is it which you say that antichristianism doth not wholy disanul christianity for if it did it were not possible it should deceive so effectually as it doth How should the Divil be beleeved in so many lyes if he should not in some things speak the truth But where you further adde that Poperie is nothing
is a supernaturall thing and cannot possibly be yeelded vnto voluntarily by a naturall man or perswaded but by a supernaturall motive which is onely it self that by the operation of the spirit also in some measure it cannot be vnderstood and beleeved but by it self published and proclaymed as the sun is seen by it own light much lesse can it be willed and willingly yeelded vnto for the will must follow the vnderstanding neyther can any man will that he knowes not Besides the many treasons and great rebellions raysed to reestablish Popery in the laÌ„d the great good liking of the old law as they term it which still is found in the multitude and the apparant hatred and persequution against the true profession of the gospel in any measure though there be ten now for one in the beginning of the Queens reign that haue atteyned to some measure of knowledge and conscience of godlynes do confirm that which I say viz that the yeelding vnto the gospell in the multitude could not be voluntary The three scriptures you bring to shew that the agreement of the cheif is accounted in the case of faith and religion the act of all though the inferiours give not their consent is by you egregiously perverted for they do all every one of them plainly prove the peoples consent The first is Exod. 19. 3. 7. 8. where v 3. the Lord signifies his wil vnto Moses and v 7. Moses propounds the same things vnto the Elders and v 8. all the people viz having the same things by the Elders propounded to them as Iunius vpon that place and so will any man of common sense noteth promise obedience to all the Lords commandements The second place is Iosh. 4. 2. 8. where it is evident to him that reads the scripture quoted with it that which is written ch 3. 9. and Deut. 27. 1. 2 3. c. that the twelve men that took the twelve stones out of the miâ—des of lorden for a memoriall of the peoples safe passing over did it with the distinct knowledge and actuall consent of the multitude and of all the people as is sayd v 1. who are also expresly commanded by Ioshua v 2. of the same chapt and v 12. of the chapt before going to chuse or take these twelve men for the purpose before named Lastly for 2. Chron. 14 as â—t is true that Asa the King did provoke the rest to seek the Lord both by his example and authority so is it as true that the people sought the Lord their God with him and as vntrue that any did by his power obey in fear as you affirm The Lord himself testifies expresly against you and that all Iudah Beniamin assembled in Ierusalem and made a covenant to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their hart and with all their sowl of whom also it is witnessed accordingly that they swore vnto the Lord with all their heart and sought him with a whol desire And for the point it self howsoever in bodily things the people may refer themselves to the determinations of their superiours and may bind themselves to rest in them as in their own acts though they neyther take knowledge of nor give consent vnto the things in particular yea though they be to their bodyly domage yet in the matters of faith and religion it is clean otherwise and to hold the same proportion is a very popish errour which makes the governours Lords over the peoples faith And thus at the last am I got back whence I digressed will now proceed in the examination of such reasons as Mr B brings to prove that profane persons or to vse his own words men of lewd conversation are not false matter of the Church To which purpose he first distinguisheth true matter into good and bad and so taking that which is bad naught vnto himself for the matter of his Church he will yet have it true and no false matter And this distinction of his he labours to exemplifie by similitude and to confirm by example The similitude he borrowes from a materiall house and the matter of it timber stone which makes eyther nothing to the matter in hand or if any thing against himself If there can possibly be any false matter of an house then rotten timber is false matter and so wicked and vnrepentant sinners dead and rotting in the grave of sinne are false matter in proportion but if there can be no false matter of a materiall house then he may see how maymed his comparison is when the termes of the one side are impossible Howsoever it is evident that the house of God the Church is a spirituall house made of lively stones built vpon that lifegiving foundation Christ Iesus And as a man or other living creature being once become dead naturally cannot be called a true man naturally so neyther can a man spiritually dead in trespasses and sinnes be called a true man spiritually and therefore not true matter of that spirituall house the Church The things you further adde namely that all Churches have in them good and bad matter that men deserving iustly to be cast out are not false matter nor so cast out of the Church but as bad matter but true that excommunicates are still brethren by their professioÌ„ are all of them so many devises of your own without proof or truth For first it is not true that all Churches which you take for such have in them good matter for there may be by your owne graunt true Churches by their profession consisting onely of wicked persons which you acknowledge bad matter though true and there are full many parish Churches in Engl wherein he that should be put to find any good matter yea one holy and sanctifyed man had need with the Cynick Phylosopher seek it oâ— him with a candle at noon day neyther is it true on the other side that all Churches haue in them bad matter there are Churches in the world wherein by the mercy of God and power of his ordinances there is no visible bad matter that is no person of known lewd conversation els God forbid You wrong the Churches of Christ and deceive the Christian reader where in the shutting vp of this point you perswade him that he shall find ever cause thus to be affected and to greive viz at lewd persons in the Church wheresoever he comes He may and ought to come where there is no such cause of greif nor by the grace of our God assisting vs shal be without reformation though you measure others by your own lyne Now for the second poynt nothing can be more vntruely affirmed then that the Church may cast out any part or parcel of her true matter For first all the true matter of the Church hath vpon it the form of the Church and so is of the essence and being of the Church which for the Church to cast out
lyeth To conclude what reason hath Mr B. thus to obiect that all which are amongst them live not in darknes and that all are not in league with the Divel considring that by his own exposition of this place the very societies of Papists are to be left as no people of God and yet all Papists live not in darknes as here he vnderstands it nor are in league with the divell neyther in deed had they need considering what league of spirituall coÌ„munion he professeth els where he will have with many of them Mr B. 2. obiection is which he also makes the 4. head of his division that there is no proportion betwixt the persons here mentioned to be separated from being infidels and such as were no members of the Church and Gentiles that had enterteyned no profession of Christ on the one side and the members of the Church on the other side and that the consequence followes not from infidels Heathens Pagans Idolaters led by the Divell to Christians professing Christ though in life not answerable to their profession Even now you justified separation from Papists by this scripture and here you restreyn it vnto Infidels and Gentiles that had not enterteyned any profession of Christ as though Papists were infidels or without all profession of Christ which is contrary both to truth and to your own expresse affirmation every where But my answer is that howsoever infidelity and Idolatry be two greivous sinnes and which do principally separate those which continue in them from God his Church yet not they alone but any other transgressions as well as they obstinately stood in do rayse this vvall of separation as is manifest in the scriptures And first the Apostle in this very place disioynes righteousnes vnrighteousnes light darknes as farre a sunder as beleevers vnbeleevers as the temple of God Idols in which former also the vnion betwixt Christ Belial is as monstrous as in the latter Vnto which I do also adde that Mr B. in this very place debarring infidels and idolaters from being matter of the true Church layes this down as a cause or reason that they are led by the Divel wherevpon it followeth that since none other wicked men are led by Christ but all by the Divell aswell as they that none other can be matter of the true Church more then they And that some persons led by the Divel should be matter of the Church and some not is a distinction not found in the scriptures but devised for a remedy against the iniquities of the tymes and for the avoyding of trouble and dissipation Secondly as the scriptures do every where denounce the same judgements vpon other wicked men and vpon idolaters and infidels for example that as well he that deâ—ileth his neighbours wife or oppresseth the poore or gives forth vpon vsury shall dy the death as he that eates vpon the mountaynes or lifts vp his eyes vnto the Idols and that aswell whoremongers unâ—rtherers and such as love or make lyes as Idolaters shal be without the heavenly Ierusalem so do they also both warrant direct vs the same course of walking towards the one and other The Lord Iesus Mat. 18. 17. enjoyns the Church to account every obstinate offender as an Heathen And the Apostle Paul gives the Corinthians in charge as much to avoyd formâ—atours covetous persons raylers drunkers and â—xtortioners as Idolaters And no marvayl for covetous persons are Idolaters and so are carnall men Idolaters making their belly their God Vnto these adde that the same Apostle vnto Tâ—tus calles vnholy and profane persons what profession of God soever they make unbeleevers or Infidels which are the same Which scripture I wish the Reader to observe in respect of Mr B. bould châ—lendge of all the Brownists in the world to shâ—w the term or name of vnbeleevers to be given to such as are not become absolute Apostates from Christ. Lastly unto that vvhich Mr B. obâ—â—â—teth in the fifth and last place against our exposition of this scripture to the Corinth for our separatioÌ„ namely that at this very tyme when the Apostles thus writ there were of them which did partake with the heatheÌ„ that they were a mixt company among whom were dissentions envying open incest drunkennes at the Lords supper fornication wantonnes men denying the resurrection I do give this answer As there was this mixture in the Church at this tyme so doth the Apostle most severely reprove the same For the incestuous man suffred vncensured he pronounceth the whole lump levened 1. Epist. 5. chapt For thâ— abuse of the Lords supper that they came together not with profit but with hurt chap. 11. 17. where I entreat the reader also to take knowledge of the counsayl which vpon that occasion Beza gives in his Annotations vpon ver 31. which is that we try and examine our selves by faith and repentance separating our selves froÌ„ the wickâ—d For this very sin here spoken of namely their partaking with Idols in the Idolothytes that they could not partake of the Lords supper You cannot drink the cup of the Lord the cup of Divels You cannot be partakers of the Lords table of the table of Divels And in this very place about which we now coÌ„tend that except they separated theÌ„selves left this their vngodly mixture they could not haue the promise of the Lord that he would dwel among them and walk there that he would be their God and haue them his people ver 16. And doth the holy Ghost in leaving these things recorded give any countenance to a mixt company or can you from hence eyther take unto your self or give unto others any comfort in your or their confused walking Will you make your self a medicine of their poyson or a playster of their vlcers You are a physition of no valâ—w Besides it must be considered that all the evils mentioned amongst the Corinthians were contrary to their constitution and so many aberrations and defections from that estate and condition wherein the the Ch was gathered It is evident that Paul planted the Ch at Corinth he being Gods labourer and it Gods husbandry Now who dare open so prophane a mouth as to affirm that this faithfull labourer would plant the Lords vineyard with such imps or gather vnto him a Church of any such slagitious persons as fornicators drunkers incestuous men or such as denyed the resurrection But what is this to your nationall Church which was constituted and gathered for the greatest part of fornicatours drunkerds blasphemers and the like with such wild branches was your vineyard planted Thus much of our interpretation application of 2 Cor. 6. I will here onely adde one argument more to prove your nationall Church vncapable of the new covenant or testament by which you your self do graunt and truely the Church of Christ to be formed
it be not actually seen or open to the ey of all as you speak as colours are alwayes visible and souÌ„ds audible in themselves though for the present they be neyther seen nor heard But what do I striving with this man which needs none other adversary but himself As he crosses his first book with his second so doth he both crosse and confute his second by his third In his first he will haue the word truely taught and the sacraments rightly administred to be the marks of the true Church in his 2. the true word preached though not truly the true sacrameÌ„ts administred though not rightly are inâ—allible tokens and reciprocally converted with the Church in the 3. last book the Church may be a Ch without the vse of the sacrameÌ„ts for a long tyme as the Ch of Israel was in the wildernes so it be not done of contempt and such as are eyther no Church of God at all or an antichristian assembly may haue and vsurp the seales put to a blank as Ismael Esau out of the Church had circumcision and the Papists now have baptism And that which he sayth of Baptism may as truely be sayd in cases of the word and the publication of it by reading and interpretation As the true Church may for a time want the vse of both so may a false Ch vsurp and abuse both as well the wryting as the seal ' He that held the seven starres in his right hand and walked in the middest of the seven golden candlesticks threatned the Church of Ephesus that he would shortly remove her candlestickout of his place for leaving her fâ—rst love except she repented though she still held and vsed the word and sacraments and if a company of schismatiques leaving a Church without cause or of excommunicates justly cast out of the Church should vnite themselves together vsurping and assuming the word and sacraments and professing the covenant outwardly and in the letter did this their â—old vsurpation make them a true visible Church of Christ The matter is the true Church may want vpon occasion the vse or administration of the word and sacraments but never the right power and interest in and vnto them so may a false assembly vsurp oâ— assume them but never have right or power from Christ unto them And this spirituall power and liberty arising from the Lords visible covenaunt to communicate and partake in the visible promises ordinances of it is the true essentiall propertie of the visible Church as is the faculty of reasoning the property of a reasonable man and the faculty of seing hearing tasting and the like the property of a sensible creature though neyther the one haue the actuall vse of reason for the present nor the other of sense The third and last property of the Church Mr B makes the care for the welfare of all and every one for the whole and each for other this eyther corporall for the maintenance of the body as in almes deeds Act. 2. 42. or spirituall touching the sowle which standeth in admonition and exhortation and so â—orth as 1 Thes. 5. 11. which also he sayth they and their congregations have It is noted of some persons beside themselves that all the ships they see in the haven and fayr houses in the country they think and say are theirs where if they were in their right witts they would both know and acknowledge that they were poore and beggarly and had nothing So is it with this man bycause he reads in the scriptures that the Apostolicall Churches consisted of saynts and were gathered by voluntary profession into the covenant of God that they had given them and did enjoy by the Lords gift and donation his word sacraments other ordinances and did in that holy communion whereunto they were called exercise themseves mutually for the welfare one of another both bodily and spiritually therevpon he concludes peremptorily that the Church of England whereof he is and for which he pleads hath all these things and that they haue all these properties where if he had a sound mind and an honest heart in the things of God he would both see confesse that things were nothing lesse with them then as he sayth and that in stead of this great and vniversall aboundance whereof he boasteth there were generally nothing but spirituall beggary and want Thou sayest I am rich and increased with goods have need of nothing knowest not how thou art wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked More particularly as you want the office of Deaconship which Christ hath left by his Apostles for the collection and distribution of the Churches almes and haue enterteyned under the true name a false and forged office of half preisthood perverting and misapplying to the iustification of it such holy scriptures as are left for the calling and ministration of true and lawfull Deacons in the Church of Christ so is there not that care for the bodily welfare one of another amongst you in any measure whereof you boast The needlesse and endlesse suits and quarrels amongst you filling all your courts and judgement seats your dayly thefts and murthers amongst the members of your Church the continuall cousenings and circumventions one of another the vsuryes oppressions extortions which overflow both country and city as did the waters in the time of Noah both the valleys hilles do too manifestly shew how farre you are from this care of the welfare ech of other bodily whereof you thus vainly boast But though this care of ech for other both bodily and spiritually be almost wholly wanting yet say you the Church is not to be iudged a false Church no more then the houshould is to be iudged a false houshould bycause there is not that care that ought to be amongst them of the family or a man a false man if through folly madnes or wilfulnes he neglects the welfare of his body Surely it had not need considering how not onely this is wanting but how the contrary aboundeth in all places And to let passe all other matters no man is ignorant what care the two great factions in the Church that of the Prelates and the other of the Reformists do take each for other namely how ech may subvert and root out the other And for your similitudes borrowed from an houshold and a body as wee deny your Church to be that houshold of God or body of Christ wherein every member hath his effectuall working in his measure as the Apostle speaketh so is there no way the like reason of them and of the Church in the respect wherein you compare them A man doth not nor cannot cease to be a true man naturally by any meanes if his person survive neyther can a family cease to be a true family civily if it be not dissipated and dissolved but a Church though the same persons survive still
of their Ministery and of their inward calling and of the peoples acceptation and of many things more very plausible to the multitude but in the day of their triall it appeares what small comfort they have in all these and as is their coming in so is their going out since they entered not in by the dore no mervayl though they suffer themselves to be thrust out by the window or to be tumbled over the wall or otherwise to be discharged vpon some small and sleighty occasion But * suppose say you a false enterance yet that no more disanulls the ministery then doth a faulty enterance to mariage disanul that ordinance between two conioyned to be lawful man and wife But first I deny your very office of ministery in it self to be a spirituall ordinance of God as is mariage a civill ordinance 2. If one of these two persons were vncapable of mariage ther would follow a nullity and so is it with you where your parish assemblies are all of them vncapable of the ministery of Christ and the ministrations thereof 3. If this mariage were made without the free consent and choise of the one party were it not to be disanulled and this is your case if you consider it where the minister is put vpon the people without their free choise and election Lastly if two persons were maryed with this condition that they should leave one another vpon the imperious commaund of some great man for some small and sleighty matter or other were this true and lawfull mariage And is not this the estate of your Ministers and people vnder their imperious Lords the Prelates by whom they are in continuall danger of divorce for want of canonicall conformity in some triviall and trifling ceremony Thus much of this similitude as also of this matter That which comes next into consideration is the poynt of succession wherein in the first place answer must be given to a demaund made by M. B. in his 2. book in which many others also think there is much weight and that is why we hold and reteyn the baptism received by succession and not the Ministery For answer vnto him I would know of him whether the Church of England do still or did at the first reteyn the ministery of the Church of Rome or no If he say it doth then I would entreat him and others not to take it ill if we call and account them Preists for such are the Romish Ministers 2. How can the Church of England forsake the Church of Rome and reteyn the Ministery which is in the Church as in the subiect especially if the Ministery make the Church as Mr Bernard affirms for then a true Ministery must needs make a true Church and communion with the Ministery drawes on necessarily communion with the Church But if on the contrary he affirm that the Church of England doth renounce the Ministery or Preisthood of the Church of Rome then I return his demaund vpon himself and ask him why it reteyns the Baptism of Rome and so leave him to himself for answer 2. The Baptism both in England and Rome is in the essentiall causes of it the matter water the form baptizing into the name of the Father Sonne and Holy Ghost Christs baptism and ordinance though in the administration it be Antichrists devise but for the Ministery eyther in Rome or England it is otherwise The Ministery of Christ doth summarily and in the substance of it consist in the feeding of the flock that is in providing food for the flock and in guiding and ordering the same accordingly in a word in preaching and government 1 Tim. 5. 17. Put what is this to the Preisthood of England to let passe that of Rome vnto which preaching is not necessarily annexed nor government so much as permitted To swear Canonicall obedience subscribe conform read the service book celebrate mariage Church women and bury the dead in form order are essentiall substantiall parts or properties of the Ministery there in the present both practise and constitution The vessels of gold and silver which were taken out of the temple in the captivity and caried to Babylon and there prophaned might notwithstanding being sanctified from their prophanation there be lawfully caried back to Ierusalem and set vp in the temple newly built and imployed as in former times to Gods service but had these vessels been broken in peices in Babâ—lon and there being mingled with brasse and iron such bâ—se mettall been cast in another mould they could not thâ—n have obâ—â—â—ned thâ—â— former place in the temple nor there have been 〈…〉 d for the holy ministration Now such is the difference between the Baptism and Ministery both in the Romish and English Church To formâ—r as a vessel of the Lords house may with the Lords people be brought back from Babylon spirituall to the new Ierusalem and there may being sanctified by repentance serve and be of 〈…〉 to all the ends and purposes for which God hath appointed it But for the Ministery or Preisthood eyther in the one or other it is in it selfe no vessell of the Lordes house it is neyther made of the mettall which the Lord hath appointed nor cast in his mould It is essentially degenerated from that office of Pastourship which Christ the Lord hath set in his house for the feeding of the flock by teaching and government as hath been formerly shewed and is in the true naturall canonicall institution of it a very devised patchery compound like the image which the King of Babylon saw in his dream save that little or nothing of it is gold or silver but all brasse iron clay the like base mettall stuffe fitting right well both in the administration of it vnto the people and in the subordination vnto the people and in the subordination vnto the Prelacy for the exaltation of the man of sinne which hath for that very purpose devised it and placed it in the Church for his service that by it as by an vnderstâ—p he might climbe up advaunce himself into the throne of iniquity where he sitts exalted above all that is called God 3. The Ministers of the Church now do succeed the Preists and Levites vnder the law as baptism also comes in the place of circumcision Now wee read in the scrâ—pâ—ures that such of the ten tribes as were in Ieroboams idolatrous schism and apostasie thereby as a branch from the root cutting off themselves actually from the onely true Church of God which was radically at Ierusalem where the Lord had founded his temple appoynted his sacrifices and promised his praesence that such of them I saâ— as returned to the Lord by repentance and ioyned themselves unto the true Church were by vertue of the circumcision received in that their apostasie wherein they had no â—iâ—le to the seale of the forgivenes of sinnes which
vnder one part of the old testament or covenant of God namely the judicial law for the common wealth and not vnder an other part of it the ceremoniall law for the Church it cannot be that any such ordinance as excommunication could be vsed lawfully in the Iewish Church Yet do I not deny but that the lepers other persons legally vnclean were for a time debarred froÌ„ the coÌ„munioÌ„ of the Church and from all the sacrifices and services thereof but this inhibition say I was no way in the nature of an excommunication For first it was for ceremoniall vncleannes issues leprosy and the like which were not sinnes but punishments of sinnes at the most 2. It did not onely exclude men from the communion of the Church but of the common wealth also and the affaires thereof 3. It did not agree in the end with excommunication The end of excommunication is the repentance of the party excoÌ„municated 1 Cor. 5. 5. but the person legally vncleane whether he repented or no was to bear his shame till the date of his time were out yea to his dying day if his disease continued so long Lev. 12. 13. 14. Num. 5. 2. 3. 4. 12. 10. 14. 2 Chron. 26. 19. 20. 21. A type I confesse it was of excommunication as legall pollution was of morall sin whence I also conclude that the type and thing typed outwardly could not both stand together But here it vvilbe demaunded of me did not the Lord require in the Iewish Church true morall and spirituall holynes also God forbid I should run vpon that desperate rock of Anabaptistry The Lord was holy then as now and so would have his people be then holy as now Yea so jealous was the Lord over his people that he took order then as well as now that no sin should be suffered vnreformed no obstinate sinner vncut off Some sinnes were of that nature as he that committed them was by the law to dy the death without pardon or partialitie so to be cut off from the Lords people Lev. 20. And when other sinnes not of that nature were committed whether of ignorance or otherwise the party offending was to be told and admonished of his offence and so to manifest his repentance by the confefsâ—on of his sinne and professioÌ„ of his faith in the mediatour by offering his appointed sacrifice and so his sinne was forgiven him Lev. 4. 13. 14. 15. 20. 21 23 26. 27. 28. 35. 5. 1. 3. 4. 5. 6. 10. 19. 17. Num. 5. 6. 7. But now if there were with the least sinne joyned obstinacy or presumption the party so sinning was to be cut off from his people Num. 15. 30. 31. 32. 34. 36. Deut. 17. 12. and for this cause the Iewes were so oft admonished to destroy the workers of wickednes that there should be no wickednes amongst them that they should take away evil from Israel and from forth of the middest of them And vpon this ground doth David as the cheif Magistrate whom this busines cheifly concerned vow his service vnto God in this kind and that he would even betimes destroy all the wicked of the land that he might cut off the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord though he afterwards fayled in the execution of this dutie And to the very same end did Asa the King with all the people enter a covenant of oath to seek the Lord God of their fathers with all their hart and with all their soule and that whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be slaine whether be were small or great man or woman To end this point vpon which I have insisted something the longer for sundry purposes in their place to be manifested as the Lord vsually conveyed spirituall both blessings and curses vnto the Iewes vnder those which were bodily so here was the spirituall judgement of excommunication comprehended vnder this bodily judgement of death by which the party delinquent was wholy cut off visibly from the Lords covenant and people That which you adde of Cloes coÌ„plaint made to the cheif governour the Apostle is true but misapplyed You make an erroneous collection from it out of your owne lamentable experience Bycause your Church of Worxsop can reforme no abuse within it self but must complain to your Lords grace of York or his substitute therfore you imagine the Church of Corinth to have been in the same boÌ„dage wherein you are and Cloe to have complayned to Pauls court But it is playn Mr B. to them that do not shut their eyes and harden their hearts against the truth that the Church of Corinth was planted in the liberty of the gospell and had this power of Christ to reform abuses and to excommunicate offenders without sending to Paul from one part of the world to an other and that the Corinthians Ch. 5. are reproved for fayling in this duty And had Mr B. but taken this course in his writing that two of his leaves had hung together he might have spared this objection considering what he writ pag. 92. that the same persons have the power to preach administer the sacraments and excommunicate for that he meanes by government Now he cannot be ignorant that both the power and practise of preaching administring the sacraments were in the Church of Corinth in Pauls absence 1 Cor. 11. 20. 14. 1. c. And so by your own graunt the Church of Corinth had power to excommunicate though Paul were absent Wherevpon I also infer it was their sinne not to vse it Now for the practise of Cloes family wee know Paul was an Apostle and generall Officer and so intitled to the affaires in all the Churches in the world wherevpon Cloe complayned vnto him of such abuses in the Church as were both of publick nature and which the Church vvould not reform otherwise it had been both slaunder and solly to have complayned And what corne doth this winde shake Do wee make it vnlawfull for any member to informe the officers of publique enormities in the Church that they according to their places might see reformation of them Yea if the Pastor or other principall Officer of the Church were absent necessarily we doubt not but it were the duety of any brother or brethren in the like case to entreat their help for the direction reproofe and reformation of the Church for any publick enormities there done or suffered who might also judge and condemne the same themselves and for their parts exhorting and directing the whole Church in their publique meeting to do the like as Paul did Your three next Arguments to prove that tell the Church is tell the Officers are idle descants vpon the formes and phrases of speach scraped together to fill your book with First you affirm that Christ having spoken in the third person tell the Church when he comes to ratify the authoritie to be committed to his Apostles turnes his
speach to the 2. person not saying what it but what you shall bind and loose c. In so saying you give the cause though you presently eat vp your own graunt For you affirm that by the Church ver 17. is meant the whole body of which Christ speaks in the third person and what say wee more But where you adde that the authoritie is not given till the 18. vers and that then Christ turns his speach to his Apostles it is your own devised glosse For first it is evident that Christ establisheth the power of binding and loosing in the hands of the Church speaking in the 3. person v. 17. that so firmely as what brother soever refuseth to heare her voice is to be expelled from all religious cōmunion Vnto this the 18. v. is added partly for explanation and partly for confirmation For where as the party admonished might say with himself well if the Church disclaim mee I shall disclaym it if it condemn me I shall condemn it again the Lord doth here back the Churches censures for her incouragement and for the terrour of the refractary despising her voice and that vnder a contestation that what she bindes and looseth vpon earth namely after his will he also will bind and loose in heaven And for the change of persons in the 17. and 18 verses it is merely grammaticall and not naturall It is common with the Holy Ghost sometimes for elegancy sometimes for explication sometimes for further inforcement of the same thing to and vpon the same persons thus to vary the phrase of speach in the first second or third person grammatically as the reader may take a tast in these particulars Psal. 75. 1. Is. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. c. Math. 5. 10. 11. 12. c. and in this very Chapt. v. 7. 8. Rom. 6. 14. 15. 16. 8. 4. 5. 12. 13. c. Your 3. Reason that bycause Christ speakes of a few two or three gathered together therefore he meanes the officers of the Church and not all the body is of no force if the body consist but of two or three as it comes to passe where Churches are raysed in persecution as the most true Churches are Yet if Christ do speak of two or three officers of a Church gathered together in his name he speaks against you where all the power of the keyes over many 1000. Churches are in the hands of two Arch-Prelates and from them delegated and derived to their severall vnderlings But the truth is that gratious promise which Christ here layes downe for the comfort of all his saints you do engrosse into the hands of a few Elders You might aswel affirme that onely two or three officers gathered together have a promise to be heard in their prayers and not a communion of two or three brethren for Christ v. 19. 20. speakes principally and expressely of prayer though with reference to the binding and loosing of sin which as all other ordinances are sanctified by prayer The very scope of the place and reason of the speach is this The Lord Iesus had v 18. enfranchised the Church with a most excellent and honourable priveledge now the disciples did already see with their own eyes and were more fully taught by their Maister that the Church should arise from small and base beginnings and that it was also by reason of persequution subject to great dissipation Math. 7. 14. 10. 17. 18. 22. 23. 13. 31. 32. least therefore their harts should be discouraged and they or others driven into suspition that the Lord would any way neglect them or his promise towards them for their paucity and meannes he most gratiously prevents and frees them from that jealousy telles them and all others for their comfort that though the Church or assembly consist but of two or three as such beginnings the true Church of God had and have though your English Church begū with a kingdome in a day Act. 16. 14. 15. 17. 34. 19. 7. yet that should no way diminish their power or prejudice the accomplishment of his promise And the reason hath been formerly rendred bycause this power for binding loosing being given to the fayth of Peter depends not vpon the order of office multitude of people or dignity of person but merely vpon the word of God And hence is it that Christ thus gratiously descends even to two or three wheresoever assembled in his name yea though it be in a Cave or Den of the earth of which most gratious and necessary priveledge you would bereave them Now in your 4. Reason out of v. 19 you do most ignorantly erre in the grāmaticall construction for you make a change of the person agayne where there is no change at all Christ speakes onely in the third person as the originall makes it plaine though the English tongue do not so distinctly manifest it to an ignorant man Christ sayth not whatsoever you two shall agree of shal be given to them that is to the Church but whatsover two of you shall agree of or consent in they two that so agree shall obteyne it of God Which words Mr B. you do most vnsufferably pervert to the seducing of the ignorant as if Christ had sayd if two or three of you officers or you two or three officers shall agree together of a thing whatsoever they that is the Church shall desire namely of the Officers for so you expound the words it shal be givē them where it is most evident that they which are to agree vpon the thing they are to ask it and that of God who will give it them And where the scripture sayth that the brother offended speaking indefinitely of any brother and so of the Officers themselves must complayn to the Church M B. on the contrary as if he would even beard the Lord Iesus tells vs the Church must complayn to the Officers Your 5. Reason followes with many litle ones in the womb of it which you bring forth in order to prove that Christ speakes here figuratively and that by the Church he means the governours The first is It agrees with the practise of the Iewish Church frō whence it is held that the manner of governing in the Church is fetched And is this the necessary proof you speak of whatsoever is so held is so in truth And yet in your second book as hath been shewed you bring in sundry men holding contrary things as if contraries could be true Well I confesse it is so held and that by many with whom I would gladly consent if the scriptures taught me not to hold otherwise It had been good here the authour had shewed vs what the government of the Iewish Church was and not thus sleightily to have passed over things of this moment For the purpose in hand thus much The Church of the Iewes was a nationall Church the Lord separating vnto himself the whole natiō