for her own Authority It cannot I say be any thing else because the thing they are proving is That She alone is the One Holy Catholick and Apostolick Church And were it any thing else they would never discover it to us because they would thereby give us an unanswerable Argument against what they would prove her to be for if they will shew us any other Church or Churches by the Testimony whereof Her Authority may be proved we are thereby enabled to prove She is not the Only true Church out of which there is no Salvation What then can this Testimony be Is it that of the First and purest Ages of the Church before POPERY was brought forth Not so to be sure for POPERY was they say from the beginning and glorieth of her Antiquity above all things Is it the Testimony of all others in the World that profess Christianity It cannot be for all these if not of her Communion are Hereticks and in a state of Damnation for denying her Authority and were it possible for them to witness that to be which they deny to be yet is their Testimony invalid because they confess themselves Fallible and this point of Faith cannot stand upon a fallible Testimony By this 't is very clear to me that the Testimony of the Catholick Church of Christ if it be produced for the Authority of the Church of ROME can be nothing else but the Church of ROME's own Word and I never doubted but she hath a good word for her self any more than I doubt lest it should be thought a good proof of her Authority I have heard again much talk of Universal Tradition among ROMAM CATHOLICKS but if they alledg this for their Church's Authority they give us only the same thing again in other Words Universal Tradition can be nothing else but the Testimony of the Universal Church and that must be the Church of ROME and so we are not advanced one step farther than we were before The Credit we are to give unto Universal Tradition depends on the Authority of the ROMAN Church which we have not yet sound but are enquiring after If Fathers and Councils be brought in to Witness this Authority all the noise they make will prove but the Voice of the ROMAN Church crying her self up for the great Diana of the World and thundring Anathema to all that will not fall down and worship her Will she abide by the Testimony of either Father or Council if they speak not what she has taught them or against what she holds Or shall they be allow'd to over rule the Oral and Practical Tradition of the present Church of ROME Are Councils of any Credit more than the POPE's Confirmation gives them And are single Fathers of more Credit than they If not we have yet no more but her own Word for her own Authority If they bring us SCRIPTURE to prove this Authority I must say that as we reverence Fathers and Councils so we adore with Tertullian the fulness of the SCRIPTURE neither can we desire any better Proof than its Testimony Yet when I consider how these men use the SCRIPTURE I am at a stand to think how they can in good earnest produce it as a Witness in this matter for after they have said almost all the ill they can of it calling it imperfect insufficient obscure unsens'd they seem to ridicule both it and us when they bring it forth thus disabled for a Witness Do not they tell us again and again that both the Canon and the Sense of SCRIPTURE depend as to us on the Authority and Interpretation of their Church And can its Testimony then possibly amount to any more than that Church's bare Word Do not they deny us a Iudgment of Discretion whereby we should discern for ourselves whether it speak fór or against their Church's Authority And will they yet produce it to convince us of the Authority by which alone we are both to receive and understand it It cannot be produced to convince us in our Iudgment for we are not allow'd any use of our Iudgment in the Case It must be only to convince themselves that we are Hereticks and I dare say that may be done without the Scripture as well as with it whilst their Church must give the Sense of it But because they know we magnify it they will produce it tho I cannot see to what other end than to persuade us to take heed of trusting too much to it or thinking it worth any thing after it hath shew'd us the true Church It must be believ'd no longer than it is authorized to speak by that Authority which is to be proved by it so that by shewing us that Authority it loseth all its own Authority for ever For this saith Stapleton that God hath commanded us to believe the Church we do not hang our Faith on the Authority of the Church as upon the proper and sole cause of this Belief but partly on manifest Scriptures by which we are remitted to the teaching of the Church partly on the Creed c. This then is the end of producing the Scripture that we may be convinced by it that we are no longer to learn of it after we are once brought by it to the knowledg of the Church's Authority but thenceforward are to depend wholly upon the teaching of the Church unto which it remits us All the use then that we have of the Scripture is to be guided by it to the Church of ROME tho it cannot do so much for us neither but as that Church guides it and having thank'd it for its kindness we are then to bid it good Night Now seeing manifest Scriptures are promised us to guide us to the ROMAN Church I think it reasonable to expect that they produce such Scriptures as are more manifest to us than their Church's Authority which is to be proved by them seeing it is by their Evidence I am to be convinced of that which as yet is unevident to me Neither ought the Sense of these manifest Scriptures depend upon the Interpretation or Authority of that Church the Authority whereof they are brought to prove as a thing to me not yet evident for so I shall be still but where I was before and instead of manifest Scriptures be shuffled off with the Church's bare Word I mean with such Interpretations of Scripture as I have no reason to receive but by that Authority whereof I am yet at least in doubt Now that there are indeed no such manifest Scriptures I am reasonably well assured before-hand I have read the Scripture over and over and find not the least mention therein made of this Authority of the ROMAN Church The POPE of ROME or his Supremacy is never once named from the beginning of the Bible to the end nor can I meet with one Syllable touching either the Infallibility or Iurisdiction of Him or his Councils or of any kind of Subjection due to
equally assured that as well what is unwritten as what is written was preach'd by them as necessary to the Salvation of Mankind I must needs also own an equal Obligation upon me to believe them all alike But neither of these could I ever see clear'd nor can I conceive any hope that I shall hereafter And seeing the proof of both lies wholly upon them who affirm both I cannot be obliged to believe them till by such proof they have convinced me In the mean time it seems enough to me that God himself was pleas'd to signifie to the World his Will in writing which I cannot imagine why He should do had he not intended we should learn his Will from what is written and not from any unwritten Tradition And I am the more confirm'd in this Opinion by this that he did not use this way of revealing his Mind unto Men at the first nor till after the World had had a very long time to discern by experience the Unfaithfulness of unwritten Tradition So that this and some other Considerations whereupon the Papists use to ground their Arguments against both the Necessity and Perfection of the Scripture seem to me very fully to evince both the one and the other and so to leave no room at all for their unwritten Traditions as any part of the Rule of Faith and Life Yet seeing they who are always preaching this Doctrine to us That there is no Salvation for them that are not of their Communion preach it not as a private Opinion of their own or of some few others in that Communion but as the generally received Doctrine of that Church which pretends to be no less than Infallible it concerns me so much the more to use all possible diligence to find out what Truth there may be in this Assertion And that not only because I shall thereby discern the necessity of changing my Religion to make sure of my own future Happiness but also because the Determination of this one Point will at once put an end as it seems to me to all the Disputes that are now between the Papists and Us. If I can find it true that no Man can be saved out of that Communion I shall be a Fool to trouble my self with the Study of the Scriptures and seeking out for my self in them a Way to Heaven when I may be sure by stepping over the Threshold out of the one Church into the other to meet with an Infallible Iudg whom if I do but follow I cannot go amiss And to dispute any longer with my self whether I should do so or not would but shew me fitter for Bedlam than for any Church seeing none but the maddest Man alive would dispute for Damnation On the other side if I shall find it false that a Man cannot be saved out of that Communion I must needs be convinced that the Roman Church which hath determined it for a certain Truth hath already err'd both in Faith and Charity and that having erred she is not Infallible and being not Infallible by her own Confession cannot be that One Holy Catholick and Apostolick Church out of which there is no Salvation So that as this Assertion of that Church shall be found to be true or false even so will the Popish Religion appear also to be But here I meet with a very great Difficulty in my way as I am going to seek out the Truth or Falshood of this Assertion that however I may be able to satisfy my self yet I shall never for ought I can see be able to satisfy them who are the Authors of it any other way than by a total Submission of my own Iudgment and Conscience too to their Determination and a blind Obedience to their Will. The Dispute as is evident is between two Churches the one whereof challengeth to it self the big-swoln Prerogative of being the Lady and Mother of all Churches a Sovereign Authority of prescribing to the Faith of all Christians the Right and incommunicable Priviledg of being the Sole and Infallible Iudg of all Controversies in Religion finally an unquestionable Power of defining and declaring to all the World the true and only Terms of Salvation Now that this Roman-Mother and Mistress-Church sole Commandress and Infallible Iudg having already in the fulness of Power determin'd it and by her Supreme Authority imposed an Oath upon her Subjects to maintain it That none out of her Communion can be saved should after all this in pure Condescension to Men declared Hereticks divest her self of her Authority lay aside her Infallible Definitions come down from the Tribunal and the Throne of Iudicature and Majesty and stand at the Bar submitting her self and the whole Cause to an indifferent and equal Trial is a thing as little to be hoped for as it is yet unagreed upon by what Law Iury or Iudg the Controversy should be decided And truly on the other side it seems to me altogether as unreasonable in her to accept That we Protestants of the Church of England tho we pretend to nothing of this Exorbitant Power over Her or other Churches or of determining Disputes for all the World should yet upon a naked Summons from Her whose Authority we question and see no reason to acknowledg forthwith subscribe to the Sentence of our own Condemnation without any fair and legal Process or indeed so much as yield to a Trial where our professed Adversaries must be at once the Law-makers Accusers Witnesses and yet this is most notoriously our Case What course now in this Case can be taken by us The Church of Rome tells us expresly and peremptorily We cannot be saved out of her Communion Must we believe her without any more ado That 's indeed the way to make a short end of all our Differences for then we must yield to be Her 's or else run headlong to Damnation But if we believe her not as for my part I know not how we can do till we see some reason why we should do so the Dispute for ought I can see is like to be endless For no such reasons can or ought she to give us if she will be constant to her self and stand to her own Principles as will plainly appear anon and if she desert her own Principles she must yield her self to be fallible and not the true Church and then in vain is all talk of Reasons why they that are not of her Communion should be damned However suppose it be pretended as indeed it is that we have had sufficient Reasons given us why we ought to believe her in this Point This then is the present Question between us Whether she hath given us sufficient reason for this or no. She confidently affirms it We as confidently deny it She calls us obstinate Hereticks for denying it and lays many a heavy Curse upon us We for this think her a very unreasonable and imperious Mistress usurping an Authority over us which God never gave
as they that affirmed the Resurrection to be past already or denied that Jesus is the Christ c. are in a State of Condemnation Other Texts of Scripture he brings wherein Christians are charged to be unanimous and condemned for causing Strife and Divisions warn'd to maintain Unity and not to hearken to false Teachers and Seducers c. But I find not by all this that St. Paul or any of the Apostles taught the Church of Rome which both forbids to marry and commands to abstain from Meats allow'd of God which teacheth divers Doctrines whereof we find not any thing in the Scripture to condemn those for Hereticks that adhere wholly to the Doctrine of the Scripture or for Schismaticks who hold Communion with all Christians so far as they keep to the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles and divide from the Church of Rome no farther than in those Points only wherein they cannot hold her Communion and the Doctrine of Christ too I do not see but after the same rate as he here defends the Charity of his Church he might also defend her Iustice if She should pretend that because Christ commanded his Disciples to fetch him another Man's Ass and her Colt She did but what he taught in taking away other Mens Goods and giving no other reason for it but this that she hath need of them What the Papists say more to shew that we can have no Saving Faith is one of these two things Either first That it is not an entire Faith there being as they say many necessary Articles which we believe not Or Secondly That it is no right-grounded Faith seeing it is not built upon sufficient Authority that is to say on the Authority of the Catholick Church Their first Objection to the Protestant Faith is this That it is no entire Faith. And here I am told by the Representer There is no more hopes for one that denies obstinately any one Point of Catholick Faith tho he believes all the rest than there is for one that keeps Nine of the Commandments with the Breach of the Tenth Now this seems to me no great Encouragement to change the Communion of the Church of England for that of Rome if an entire Faith and an entire Obedience be but equally necessary I wish with all my Heart I could be as sure that the Church of Rome doth not break the first Commandment by her Invocation of Saints and Adoration of the Host and the second Commandment in her Adoration of Images and the Cross as I am sure that the Church of England neither obstinately denies any Article of the Catholick Faith nor countenanceth the Breach of any one of the ten Commandments as that Church seems too much to do whilst she takes no little Care that the People may not know them all We stedfastly believe the whole Scripture so far as we are able to understand it explicitly and when we do not implicitly we receive the three Creeds which have ever been thought to contain the entire Faith of a Christian wherein then is our Faith partial or defective I must consider that anon at present seeing Obstinacy according to our Adversaries is a necessary ingredient of an Heretick I can easily assure my self tho I do not see how 't is possible for me to satisfy them that I am no Heretick for I certainly know that I am very desirous to be throughly inform'd and to be brought to a right understanding of all necessary Truths and am still in a readiness and full preparation of Mind to believe any one or all of their Articles whensoever they shall please to prove the Truth of them either by Scripture or by unquestionable Apostolical Tradition I am sure therefore I deny not obstinately any one Point of Catholick Faith. But till they vouchsafe me the proof I desire I must content my self with the Scripture which is able to make wise unto Salvation through Faith which is in Christ Iesus and not in the Pope of Rome nor in the Roman Church And yet I find that it is for this especially that we are call'd Hereticks that we adhere only to the Scripture and that they often explain their meaning in bestowing that Title on us by calling us Scripturists and Gospellers and ridicule us for talking of only Scripture But when I consider that this is the Fundamental Heresy wherewith we are charged I cannot but a little wonder at it and find less cause than ever to think we can be Hereticks indeed or that they can call us so any otherwise than in jest Can they grant the Scripture to be the Word of God and the Gospel to be the Power of God unto Salvation and yet in earnest call us Hereticks for being Scripturists and Gospellers If submitting our Faith in all things to the Scripture we can be Hereticks then must the Scripture teach Heresy and cannot be the Word of God. What a Contradiction is this in Papists to call us Scripturists and Hereticks which is in effect to say That we adhere only to the Infallible Truth of God and yet are guilty of obstinate Error in the Faith What is it then wherein our Faith is defective It is in this that we do not believe all that the Church of Rome propounds to be believed This indeed would make us Papists but whether it would make us better Christians than we are already is not so certain A Papist saith the Representer is one that lives and believes what is prescribed in the Council of Trent But this Rule of the Papists Faith came into the World as we think too late almost by fifteen hundred Years to be the Rule of the Christian Faith and therefore he could not have represented his Religion to us with greater disadvantage than here he doth We cannot conceive how so small a handful of Prelats most of them Italians sworn Vassals to the Bishop of Rome assembled together at Trent fifteen hundred Years after Christ's preaching and wholly limited and directed in all their proceedings by the Will and Command of Him whose Authority was the principal thing in question and submitting all at last to Him alone should come by that immense Authority to command the Faith of the Christian World or what Commission they could shew from Christ the Supream Lawgiver to prescribe Laws of Faith and Life to all Christendom And we can as little conceive how this pretended Council could at once confirm all the General Councils and among the rest that of Ephesus before mention'd yea and declare the Nicene Creed to be the firm and only Foundation and yet contrary to the Decree of that Ephesine Council and not very consistently to it 's own Declaration decree so many more Points than that Creed contains as necessary to be believed Moreover if this be the great Oracle we must consult as our surest Guide to Heaven where must we meet with him that can give us the certain Sense of its General and Ambiguous