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cause_n	authority_n	church_n	see_v	1,737	5	3.7569	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19885	A iust complaint against an uniust doer Wherein is declared the miserable slaverie & bondage that the English Church of Amsterdam is now in, by reason of the tirannicall government and corrupt doctrine, of Mr. Iohn Pagett their present minister. The which things are plainly manifested in two certein letters, the one written by Mr. Iohn Davenport to the dutch classis, the other given vp to the English consistorie by some of the brethren. With other briefe passages tending to the same effect. Published by one that much pitties them and prayes dayly for their deliverance.	Davenport, John, 1597-1670.	1634 (1634)	STC 6311; ESTC S119390	15,142	26

having thus sayd they add afterwards but if the parents or suertyes shall refuse to be ●xamined or if for the shortnes of time or for other Iust cause it can not be done or if when they doe come they shall not seeme to give satisfaction to the Iudgment of him that examineth them the infants whose parents or suertyes appeare to be christians and who doe professe the christ●an religion at the reading of the Leiturgie of baptisme publickly before the Church shall not for that cause be sent away without baptisme The day following Mr. Pagett asked me whether I would rest in the writing of the 5. Ministers To whome I answered the writers themselves doe not require this of me and for ought I can see it would give them content if an order be made in consistory to put an ende to this controversie But if any marvell why I did not rest in that writing I will tell the reasons for by what right could it be exacted or expected that I should rest in the writing when first the wryters themselues professed that it was but their owne privat judgment Secondly this their private judgment was nakedly prepounded without any proofe from the word of God whose prerogative it is to be rested in for its owne Authoritie Thirdly such a subjection is greater then may bee yeilded vnto any counsell whether of classis or Synods and where it hath been granted or suffered it hath been the cause of many mischeifs in the Church for therby the writings and decrees of men are made infallible and equall with the word of God which is intolerable Fourthly those reverend brethren take the word christian more largely then I for they account all christians which professe christian religion at the reading of the leiturgy of baptisme publickly before the Church though it be done only in one word yea or by bowing the head or body when they say nothing yea some of them goe so farre that they hould that the very offering of the child to Baptisme giveth it a right therunto though the parents be not christians because they say it may be their grandfather or great grandfather were christians and another adds if my memory fayles not that infants are holy in the roote if they be borne where the Gospell is preached But I take the name of christians in this question in the same sence wherein the multitude of beleevers in Antiochia were called christians Act. 11 21 26. So that I account them to be christians children whose parents at least one of them in externall profession is within the covenant Gen. 17 10. Faithfull Rom. 4 11. Called Act. 2 39. Ioyned to some true Church 1. Cor. 5.12 Because the seale of the covenant belongs only to those in the covenant nor can a man be judged to be in the covenant without faith nor to have faith unlesse he be called nor to be called unles he be taken off from the world and joyned to the congregation of the faithfull wherunto agree the divines of the dutch Church in their confessions and all the reformed Churches in the harmony of confessions read allso Spe. contr Pelag. Act. 28 34. Kuchl de baptism Thes 15. Dr. Ames cas Con. cap. 27. to conclude all divines agree in this As fot that which is objected concerning particular Obj. 1 cases that may happen Cas con An. that which Beza writes in his Epistle to the ministers of Neocomum or Perkins or Ames in their cases or the Professors of Leyden in their Theses makes nothing against my opinion if they be taken in a good sence and made to agree with the Patern of wholesom words The consequence which some object for the avoyding Obj. 2 wherof they would have infants thus promiscuously to be baptized doe not trouble me An. because I have learned of the Apostle that evill is not to be done that good may come therof yet in the interim consider brethren whether it be lawfull to drive the Pastor from the flock that strangers may enter into the fold or to make the Pastors calling voyd for their sakes that are uncalled or to hinder the making of a covenant betweene the Pastor and his people because he dare not give the seale of the covenant to those that are not in the covenant or to remove the Porter from the dore of the Lords house that the gentiles may be suffered to enter into rh● Temple yea to bringe a detainment upon the English Church for so smalle a matter as this seemeth to you to be and not to regard how much the conscience of your brother is indangered so your customs may be established neither is this to be sleighted that vnles we be thus difficult in this cause parents that joyne themselves vnto no Church will content themselves in that estate and live and dy libertines if they may have the Privileges of the Church as if they were members which who seeth not what an occation of error and destruction it may be both to parents and children so that I can not be perswaded but that in that cause the conscience is not at all indangered by denying baptisme but by baptizing such very much Concerning the troubles which some object may arise Obj. 3 in the English Church vpon this occasion which also one applied to me as if I should be judged to be the author o them An. I propounded to you reverend brethren to the English Church yea to the whole christian world to judge who shal be accompted the cause therof whether he that peaceably and privatly and quietly desireth to be satisfied in the things wherof he doubteth or they that imperiously deny him convenient time for that purpose and doe bind him to such orders and customs as he can not thinke to be equall Afterwards without the desire or consent of the consistory the matter was brought into the Classis they confirmed the writing of the five Ministers and decreed that conformity therunto should be required of me as a condition whervpon I should be admitted but I desired the reverend brethren earnestly not to binde me to that condition seing that first that practise is grounded upon no authoritie of Gods Word Secondly nor upon ●ny ca●●n of any Synod Thirdly nor is required of any one to be chosen to the Pastorall office as a condition of their admittance in any reformed Church 4lie This practise is not so absolute or unlimited in any Churches as it is required of me 5lie It is propounded as a greivance in many Dutch Churches from whence they would be delivered and freed if they could 6lie It is manifest that the noble and learned Polonian Ioannes Alasco Baron and Superintendent of the Church of strangers in London in the reigne of Edw. 6th Did obtaine and that under the broade seale of England liberty not to baptize any such as against whom I except which libertie your Dutch Church doe now injoy vnder our most mighty Kinge Charles and is not in any

one for which Mr. Davenport is kept out of this Church though there is no need of tying the Minister of this Church to that custome the congregation being small and who can thinke that they would tye us so strictly to all their orders when one of them said to Mr. Paget on occasion of his complaint in the Classis of Mr. Davenport not conforming to their orders why yuur selfe do not conforme to all our orders and certainly they would all have rejoyced to have heard that all our differences had beene ended amongst our selves yea he hath of late as we heard required of the Elders to make an order in the consistory that whatsoever Minister shall hereafter be called to this Church should conforme to a writing which he got 5. Dutch Ministers to make in his owne house about that question and sent it to Mr. Davenport which we thinke no Godly man will absolutely be bound unto Thirdly he violently without consent of any of the consistory bringeth matters from thence to the Classis when he can not have his will injustly satisfyed and so destroys the power of the Church utterly often answering they can doe nothing in these cases without the classis of which we reverently esteeme for Counsell and advice in all difficult matters that can not be ended amongst our Consistory Fourthly under pretence of asking and taking advise of the Classis he subjected the Church under their authority and power as he calls it tho the Church never acknowledged any such power to be due as the scriptures in any place giveth not to such a company of Ministers nor as becometh any except the Apostles that could not erre to have Fourthly he doth not the duty of a Pastour to the particular members of this congregation we prove after this maner First when Godly persons make their complaint of those that walke disorderly and that the censures are not executed against offenders they that seeke the good of the Church are checked and discouraged by him Secondly when some have beene suspended from the Lords table they may live many yeares and dye in their sins before he lookes after them to reclaime them Thirdly the visiting of the members at their houses is so farre neglected that not onely divers members never were once visited by him in divers yeares but also the visitation of the members against the sacrament is wholy left off Fourthly wheras it was desired that the weekly sermons on wendesdayes and those usuall before the Sacrament should againe be begun and assistance hath beene offred him therein without his charge at least he neither would performe them himself nor suffer any other we could get to do it though the Eldership agreed it should be soe Secondly for his Doctrine we have much against it But to let passe his sleight Sermons which be many for a man of his abilityes First his self preaching and misapplying of holy truths which hath beene done with such bitternes of late that some of us are discouraged from hearing him and all of us are sent home with sad hearts when those of his side are made glad and insult who pretend to cleave to Mr. Paget out of their enmity against us and those wayes of Godlines wherin we desire and indeavour to walke Secondly for his takeing of text of purpose fit to stirre up contention as of late that of the 5. of Esay about the vinyard upon which five first verses he hath taught a great while which with what bitternes he hath taught against the Godly many Passages and members will witnes and insinuating things against us that we never thought of making us vile before the whole congregation and to be insulted over by unworthy termes from those of his side to our great griefe and continuall vexation and 10. dayes since strain●d the 5. verse which tels what God will doe to his vineyned and spake altogether of mens disorders in the Church Thirdly he hath preacht very bitterly and provokingly against privat meetings not onely long since but of late hath done very unjustly and manifest injurye to Mr. Davenport whom he plainly enough reproached in his pulpit about the meeting of divers to heare him open the groundes of religion in Catechysing the family where he lived every Lords day after the sermons were ended at 5. a Clock at night where many received much edification which he hath injuriously now deprived us of to the great grief of many Godly soules Fourthly about the question betweene him and Mr. Davenport for the baptising of all Children that are brought though the parents were altogether unknowne he very reproachfully upbraided Mr. Davenport of errour and gave out that he would answer him in the pulpit and when the day came wherein we expected the performance of his promise he avoyded the question betweene them and fell upon the Anabaptists and Brownists from both which Mr. Davenport differeth in that poynt as he hath tould him formerly and offred him to declare in publick how farre he differed from them therein is this brotherly dealing thus to use a minister who hath so loveingly assisted him and us in our necessity and to traduce him falsly and injuriously in this maner and all to the end that he may seeme to justify his keeping of him out of the Church whom the Church hath so much desired and bewaileth that they are deprived of him which the Classis at first consented unto though they knew the difference till Mr. Paget brought it againe to them by force to have them make an order to condemne their owne practice and therefore wee conceive Mr. Paget the onely cause we are deprived of such heavenly means for our Edification Now we pray you our Elders in the feare of God to take these our complaints to heart and to give your judgment w●ether it be not fit and more then time that some lawfull course be taken for the redresse of these grievances and to consult which way it may best be done that so in that great day of the Lord you may give up yours account for the discharge of this Trust committed unto you with joy which if you shall upon this our solemne complaint neglect to doe we doe protest before the Lord his Church to be wholy guiltles of all these evills haveing done our utmost indeavour for the redresse of the same the sinne thereof to lay upon Mr. Iohn Paget our present pastour as the principall cause of all these evills and next upon your selves who have the cheifest authority in the Church for the redresse of all evils So beseeching the Lord to blesse our indevours and desireing you to cause these our complaints to rest upon record in the register of this Church that after times may see how these evils have beene witnessed against we subscribe our names as followeth desireing also that place may be left in the register for all others that hearing hereof shall desire to have their names underwritten for the more full witnes of these things because we have not gathered many names as we could have done of many because you might have nothing to take offence at that way which we conceive would gladly have joyned with us herein not onely of men but of many Godly women also that are of the same mind with us W. B. N. I. I. C. I. P. I. St. L. C. T. F. H. P. A. H. We who last time did not with our brethren above written abstaine from the Lords Supper yet desire to joyne as one with them in these complaints and Grievances and therefore have underwritten our names as follow S. O. D. B. T. A. R. P. I. H. G. B. E. P. L. D. T. P. E. S. F. D. P. L. After thes greivances were given unto the consistory divers members more hearing thereof desired to joyn in the same and subscribed their names allso Now for conclusion since the case so stands as is here reported under such plentifull testimonie what remains but that every one that would approve himself to God if redresse cannot be had labour to keep himself pure and not pertake of others sins by continuing the servants of men against the power and liberty purchased by Christ for his Church of saincts knowing the way of the upright is to depart from evill Stand fast therefore quitt you like men in striving for the maintenaunce of this part of the faith and the Lord wil be with you if you wil be faithfull unto him

so many men so much desired by the congregation and other passages which I will for the present spare to mention Mr. Paget not content with former Injuries addeth these following First he sayth reporteth that he hath often desired to dispute or confer with me about this poynt but that I refused it wheras he knoweth we were in continuall discourse about it diverse weekes before others knew of the difference neither should it ever have ben knowne if any brotherly love had wrought in him or my advise and desire might have prevayled In this time there passed 2. or 3. serious conferences between us wherein this poynt was disputed which I have in writing by me nor did I ceasse till he gave over and sayd that seeing his judgment could not prevayle with me he wold leave it now to the dutch Preachers to see if they could prevayle with me from which I disswad earnestly but in vayne at last he tould me that he would speake with me alone no more about those matters from that time I have ceased to come to his house Secondly he reported that I am gone from my promise for I sayd I would rest in the writing of the five Ministers but now I will not whereas he knoweth that from the first to the last himselfe never heard me speake any such word and the night before they went to the Magistrates for their consent to my call he apprehended my answer rightly and tould the Elders that he perceived that I did not rest in that writing of the 5. Ministers further then it made way for an order to be made in the consistory wherat he shewed himselfe discontented Ob. 1 But one of the Elders sayd so in the consistory An. That elder denieth that he sayd so and knoweth that I sayd otherwayes to him that which he sayd as I am informed was only to quiet Mr. Paget and therfore told him that some part of that writing with an order to be made in consistory being ioyned together would settle things which is farre from an intimation of any purpose in me to conforme therunto Ob. 2 But Mr. Paget would not have gone else to the Magistrate An. if he had not understood it to be so It hath been often cleared that he misunderstood that Elder if he so vnderstood him and if he wold not upon other termes have gone to the Magistrate the whole congregation and I am the lesse beholden to him Ob. 3 But he did goe to the Magistrat and at a time when he was not very stronge and when he came home tould his wife rejoycing that now the busines is ended which he would not have done if he had not so understood it and if he had not desired to have Mr. Davenport for his colleague An. Vpon his going to the Magistrate the busines was not ended for the Magistrate shewed himselfe unsatisfied concerning the cause of my comming over wherin how litle he spake to give satisfaction is evident yea what he answered might serve rather to increase the suspition that beinge ended and the Magistrats satisfied by other meanes it was so brought about by one of the Dutch Preachers interposing that the Magistrats gave but a conditionall consent to my call and made my conformity to this custom of promiscuous baptisinge the condition therof so that now matters were in a worse stat● then before It is apparent that if Mr. Paget was at that time content to have me joyne with him it was but conditionally that I would doe whatsoever he or the Classis would have me upon which termes he is content to have others whom he hath no cause to desire for colleagues with him But Mr. Davenport did purpose to yeald when he Ob. 4 came from England else why would he come over having seene the questions that were put to Mr. Hooker He saw the questions in London An. above a yeare before his comming over when he was farre from any thoughtes of comming to Amsterdam or to any place out of his owne land and when he did come over he professed both in England and here that he came but for 3. or 4. months for which time what need was there of his knowing much lesse practising or conforming to the customs of the Dutch Church and when he did consider of that question as it was put to Mr. Hooker ther was not either in the question or answer sufficient light to informe him of that which time hath discovered herein neither can any man from thence know what in this custom is to be disliked But Mr. Pa. did so much in that busines that he sayth if Ob. 5 that were to doe agayne he would not doe it which sheweth that at that time he desired to have you If ever he did desire me An. I have given him no cause to repent of it but to desire it more vnles he takes offence at this that I dare not venture vpon doeing that which I account unlawfull or at this that I report the truth of things as they passed when I am provoked thervnto But it seemes to me that he never did desire it for these reasons 1. bec before I came hither when he heard I was to come over he preached publickly against my resigning up my place which afterward he just●fied when I related to him the cause therof the carriage therin and the consent of many worthy devines and of the congregation it selfe therunto Secondly because severall times he shewed his dislike of my comming hither without his desire or consent in sending for me though it is apparent that God sent me hither at a needfull time when without me they would have been destitute he being unable to preach or to come to the Church Thirdly because he delayed the calling of me so long that the Elders began to be impatient of his delayes for what reasons he best knoweth 4lie because as soone as he found my Iudgm differing in this poynt from his practise he discouered how litle he desired me by refusing all meanes of accomodation though by them the difference might have been hid and peremptorily resolving to have it brought into the Classis though I tould him it would make matters worse he pretended he might not doe otherwise though some of the Dutch Preachers sayd it might be best ended in the Consistory and wished it might be so and approved of what I had sayd to Mr. Paget that matters would be worse else For it is unlikly that the Classis would make an order in favour of me to condemn their owne customs 5lie He pressed earnestly to have Mr. Balmford of the Hage though he gave him the same answer to the question which I had done before I came into these parts and since hath nominated Mr. Roe of Flushing though he in answer to a letter which Mr. Paget sent to him concerning this matter professed himselfe to be of my judgment 6lie Because he hath allwayes so much urged to have one that hath