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they_o 4._o weakness_n thus_o turrecrema_n say_v quamuìs_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la 112._o turrecr_n sum_fw-la d._n eccles_n 2._o c._n 112._o etc._n etc._n although_o the_o church_n be_v support_v by_o divine_a power_n and_o authority_n yet_o inasmuch_o as_o it_o be_v a_o congregation_n of_o man_n something_o through_o humane_a weakness_n be_v act_v by_o it_o which_o be_v not_o divine_a thus_o it_o be_v confess_v that_o the_o church_n be_v not_o total_o exempt_v from_o these_o enemy_n but_o because_o you_o bring_v scripture_n to_o patronize_v your_o cause_n let_v we_o see_v whether_o it_o speak_v for_o you_o 1._o against_o ignorance_n you_o urge_v mat._n 13._o to_o you_o it_o be_v give_v to_o know_v the_o mystery_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n ans_fw-fr 1._o i_o wonder_v your_o rhemist_n have_v nothing_o to_o say_v for_o the_o church_n infallibility_n from_o this_o text_n all_o that_o they_o conclude_v from_o it_o be_v this_o that_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o
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you_o say_v the_o scripture_n declare_v not_o that_o its_o lawful_a to_o eat_v strangle_v meat_n and_o blood_n answ_n 1._o the_o scripture_n declare_v that_o every_o creature_n of_o god_n be_v good_a and_o nothing_o to_o be_v refuse_v if_o it_o be_v receive_v with_o thanksgiving_n 1_o tim._n 4.4_o and_o that_o christian_n be_v not_o to_o be_v judge_v for_o their_o eat_n of_o any_o meat_n col._n 2.16_o so_o it_o be_v not_o with_o the_o offence_n of_o our_o brother_n who_o be_v weak_a thus_o lyra_n on_o that_o decree_n of_o the_o apostle_n concern_v strangle_v meat_n and_o blood_n say_v those_o who_o be_v new_o convert_v from_o judaisme_n do_v abhor_v these_o meat_n 5.20_o lyran._n in_o act_n 5.20_o and_o therefore_o although_o it_o be_v meat_n that_o lawful_o may_v be_v eat_v yet_o for_o their_o sake_n the_o gentile_n be_v command_v to_o abstain_v from_o as_o a_o man_n be_v to_o abstain_v from_o that_o meat_n which_o be_v hateful_a to_o his_o companion_n but_o afterward_o the_o cause_n cease_v through_o the_o clear_a discovery_n of_o the_o gospel_n the_o effect_n cease_v and_o this_o gospel_n light_n he_o fetch_v from_o math._n 15._o and_o 1_o tim._n 4._o both_o which_o be_v scripture_n 2._o it_o may_v be_v question_v whether_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o believe_v that_o thing_n strangle_v &_o blood_n may_v be_v lawful_a to_o be_v eat_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n be_v not_o meat_n and_o drink_n we_o be_v not_o justify_v by_o meat_n it_o be_v weakness_n to_o think_v any_o meat_n unlawful_a rom._n 14.2_o but_o not_o heretical_a the_o eat_n or_o refuse_v of_o meat_n be_v of_o that_o kind_n of_o thing_n quae_fw-la dubium_fw-la est_fw-la quo_fw-la animo_fw-la fiant_fw-la not_o of_o those_o quae_fw-la non_fw-la possunt_fw-la bono_fw-mi animo_fw-la fiâ—ri_fw-la as_o augustine_n distinguish_v thus_o much_o for_o answer_v to_o your_o reason_n and_o its_o confirmation_n last_o in_o the_o close_a of_o your_o chapter_n you_o bring_v a_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o spiritist_n do_v not_o make_v the_o scripture_n a_o rule_n of_o their_o belief_n it_o be_v this_o be_v scripture_n the_o rule_n of_o their_o belief_n though_o it_o contain_v divers_a truth_n yet_o those_o truth_n meeting_n and_o become_v one_o in_o revelation_n they_o woe_n l_o all_o perfect_o agree_v not_o only_a lutheran_n amo_fw-la g_o themselves_z zuinglians_n among_o themselves_o calvenist_n among_o themselves_o but_o likewise_o lutheran_n with_o zuinlians_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v the_o property_n of_o unity_n to_o unite_v and_o make_v one_o all_o that_o conform_v to_o the_o same_o answ_n 1._o you_o suppose_v that_o all_o they_o who_o acknowledge_v one_o rule_n must_v perfect_o agree_v among_o themselves_o which_o be_v evident_o false_a a_o exact_a walk_n according_o the_o same_o rule_n be_v not_o attainable_a by_o any_o society_n on_o this_o side_n heaven_n for_o 1._o all_o have_v not_o the_o same_o measure_n of_o knowledge_n whereby_o they_o shall_v understand_v exact_o every_o point_n in_o scripture_n many_o thing_n be_v scriptural_a by_o consequence_n which_o must_v be_v find_v out_o by_o argument_n and_o be_v hardly_o understand_v than_o other_o thing_n though_o in_o some_o place_n of_o scripture_n a_o lamb_n may_v wade_v yet_o in_o other_o a_o elephant_n may_v swim_v the_o apostle_n say_v let_v we_o as_o many_o as_o be_v perfect_a be_v thus_o mind_v &_o if_o in_o any_o thing_n you_o be_v otherwise_o mind_v god_n shall_v reveal_v even_o this_o unto_o you_o nevertheless_o whereto_o we_o have_v already_o attain_v let_v we_o walk_v by_o the_o same_o rule_n etc._n etc._n phil._n 3.15.16_o it_o be_v a_o perfection_n a_o high_a attainment_n for_o christian_n to_o be_v perfect_o one_o yea_o it_o be_v a_o privilege_n of_o another_o life_n 3.15_o rhem._n annot_fw-mi on_o phil._n 3.15_o where_o knowledge_n become_v perfect_a eph._n 4.13_o with_o 1_o cor._n 13._o the_o rhemist_n acknowledge_v this_o as_o the_o judgement_n of_o saint_n paul_n acknowledge_v that_o in_o this_o imperfection_n of_o man_n science_n in_o this_o life_n every_o one_o can_v be_v free_a from_o all_o error_n or_o think_v the_o same_o that_o another_o think_v whereupon_o may_v arise_v difference_n of_o understanding_n opinion_n and_o judgement_n in_o certa_fw-la n_o hard_a matter_n which_o god_n have_v not_o reveal_v or_o the_o church_n determine_v and_o therefore_o that_o such_o diversity_n be_v tolerable_a and_o agreeable_a to_o our_o humane_a condition_n and_o the_o state_n of_o the_o way_n that_o we_o be_v in_o 2._o all_o have_v not_o the_o same_o measure_n of_o grace_n and_o freedom_n from_o corruption_n and_o passion_n which_o prevail_v to_o draw_v man_n from_o a_o conformity_n to_o the_o same_o rule_n some_o be_v of_o a_o cross_n and_o peevish_a temper_n subject_n to_o a_o spirit_n of_o contradiction_n maintain_v error_n lest_o they_o shall_v seem_v to_o be_v overcome_v by_o other_o or_o not_o to_o have_v be_v so_o sound_a as_o other_o be_v passion_n have_v a_o great_a influx_n upon_o the_o difference_n of_o our_o first_o reformer_n nor_o be_v you_o free_a from_o this_o evil_a this_o spirit_n of_o contradiction_n you_o reject_v clear_a exposition_n of_o scripture_n because_o we_o approve_v of_o they_o when_o augustine_n compare_v the_o jewish_a and_o christian_a sacrament_n say_v fuerunt_fw-la etc._n etc._n they_o be_v divers_a in_o the_o sign_n but_o alike_o in_o the_o thing_n signify_v ground_v his_o speech_n upon_o 1_o cor._n 10.3_o maldonate_fw-it answer_v i_o be_o persuade_v if_o augustine_n have_v live_v in_o our_o age_n he_o will_v have_v think_v otherwise_o especial_o perceive_v the_o heretical_a calvinist_n to_o be_v of_o of_o his_o opinion_n and_o he_o further_o add_v i_o rather_o approve_v my_o own_o exposition_n than_o that_o of_o augustin_n because_o this_o be_v more_o contradictory_n to_o the_o calvinist_n 6._o mald._n in_o joan._n 6._o 2._o yourselves_o acknowledge_v one_o rule_n the_o church_n yet_o can_v true_o say_v that_o all_o papist_n do_v perfect_o agree_v i_o shall_v show_v the_o contrary_a hereafter_o 3._o though_o protestant_n differ_v about_o particular_a truth_n yet_o they_o all_o agree_v in_o this_o that_o whatsoever_o god_n reveal_v to_o they_o in_o scripture_n they_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v it_o herein_o lutheran_n zuinghans_n and_o calvenist_n as_o you_o name_v they_o do_v full_o agree_v 4._o you_o false_o and_o ignorant_o suggest_v to_o your_o seduce_a follower_n that_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v full_a of_o division_n and_o disagreement_n calvenist_n differ_v among_o themselves_o and_o from_o lutheran_n &c._n &c._n sir_n i_o pray_v you_o read_v the_o harmonious_a confession_n of_o protestant_a church_n and_o if_o by_o they_o you_o be_v not_o convince_v of_o error_n in_o your_o next_o give_v we_o some_o catalogue_n of_o those_o divide_a and_o subdivide_v difference_n you_o general_o mention_n till_o than_o we_o shall_v suspend_v our_o belief_n of_o you_o your_o reason_n in_o these_o word_n it_o be_v the_o property_n of_o unity_n to_o unite_v etc._n etc._n be_v a_o piece_n of_o nonsense_n if_o you_o have_v mention_v rule_n instead_o of_o unity_n it_o have_v be_v most_o true_a but_o nothing_o to_o purpose_n it_o be_v the_o property_n of_o a_o rule_n to_o unite_v and_o make_v one_o all_o that_o conform_v to_o it_o so_o that_o to_o the_o make_v up_o of_o this_o unity_n there_o must_v not_o only_o be_v a_o exact_a rule_n but_o a_o perfect_a conformity_n to_o it_o in_o they_o who_o it_o do_v concern_v which_o perfect_a conformity_n can_v be_v yield_v by_o any_o live_a man_n to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n because_o of_o ignorance_n and_o corruption_n which_o remain_v in_o the_o very_o best_a of_o man_n the_o conclusion_n of_o your_o argument_n need_v no_o answer_n the_o premise_n be_v overthrow_v what_o you_o say_v of_o our_o do_v homage_n to_o luther_n calvin_n and_o zuinglius_n fancy_n be_v simple_a and_o false_a you_o know_v we_o abhor_v a_o blind_a obedience_n and_o a_o implicit_a faith_n the_o book_n our_o people_n read_v ordinary_o be_v not_o luther_n calvin_n or_o zuinglius_n work_n but_o the_o sacred_a scripture_n by_o which_o we_o examine_v all_o writing_n even_o there_o be_v you_o now_o mention_v if_o we_o meet_v with_o they_o we_o look_v upon_o luther_n calvin_n and_o zuinglius_fw-la as_o eminent_a light_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n not_o as_o go_n we_o say_v not_o dominus_fw-la deus_fw-la noster_fw-la calvinus_n etc._n etc._n as_o some_o of_o you_o have_v say_v of_o your_o pope_n we_o acknowledge_v they_o endue_v with_o the_o spirit_n but_o not_o infallible_o inspire_v as_o holder_n forth_o of_o a_o old_a light_n hide_v under_o a_o romish_a bushel_n not_o as_o introducer_n of_o any_o new_a one_o as_o reformer_n not_o innovator_n we_o reverence_v they_o as_o pious_a man_n now_o with_o the_o lord_n but_o neither_o prey_n to_o they_o nor_o keep_v holiday_n for_o they_o our_o homage_n we_o
not_o sinner_n but_o if_o any_o man_n be_v a_o worshipper_n of_o god_n and_o do_v his_o will_n he_o hear_v he_o john_n 9.31_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o wickâ—d_n be_v a_o abomination_n to_o the_o lord_n but_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o upright_o be_v his_o delight_n prov._n 15.8_o jam._n 5.16_o the_o scripture_n assert_v the_o only_a prevalency_n of_o the_o righteous_a man_n prayer_n 2._o it_o be_v a_o wrong_n to_o christ_n to_o attribute_v this_o virtue_n to_o such_o man_n for_o if_o they_o can_v do_v it_o christ_n intercession_n become_v needless_a or_o sinfulness_n be_v that_o which_o bring_v in_o the_o necessity_n of_o a_o mediator_n 4._o you_o propound_v and_o answer_v three_o objection_n which_o you_o suppose_v may_v be_v make_v against_o you_o obj._n 1_o it_o will_v be_v oppose_v say_v you_o in_o the_o vast_a distance_n that_o be_v betwixt_o heaven_n and_o earth_n saint_n and_o angel_n can_v hear_v reply_n bless_a soul_n in_o their_o state_n of_o separation_n have_v as_o angel_n luke_o 15._o a_o hear_v quite_o other_o from_o that_o of_o soul_n immerse_v and_o plunge_v in_o flesh_n and_o blood_n these_o hear_v by_o mean_n of_o corporal_a organ_n which_o limit_v within_o a_o certain_a distance_n can_v receive_v impression_n out_o of_o the_o same_o those_o hear_v with_o their_o understanding_n which_o be_v by_o so_o much_o the_o more_o open_a and_o quick_a of_o apprehension_n by_o how_o much_o the_o less_o their_o dependence_n be_v on_o matter_n the_o saint_n then_o be_v free_v of_o all_o corporal_a clog_n may_v hear_v at_o any_o distanc_fw-la ans_fw-fr 1._o the_o knowledge_n of_o bless_a soul_n in_o their_o state_n of_o separation_n though_o different_a from_o that_o of_o soul_n house_v in_o body_n of_o clay_n yet_o be_v inferior_a to_o that_o of_o angel_n as_o aquinas_n show_v because_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o soul_n be_v inferior_a to_o the_o angelical_a nature_n soul_n have_v a_o common_a and_o confuse_a knowledge_n 3._o aquin._n part_n 1._o q._n 8_o 9_o art_n 3._o as_o he_o call_v it_o but_o angel_n have_v a_o exact_a and_o more_o perfect_a knowledge_n 2._o the_o freedom_n that_o bless_a soul_n have_v from_o corporal_a clog_n do_v not_o invest_v they_o with_o the_o particular_a knowledge_n of_o thing_n do_v here_o upon_o earth_n this_o be_v also_o assert_v by_o aquinas_n ibid._n art_n 8._o c._n who_o for_o confirmation_n of_o it_o bring_v in_o saint_n gregory_n and_o augustine_n the_o former_a of_o they_o seem_v to_o prove_v it_o from_o the_o distance_n of_o habitation_n of_o spirit_n from_o that_o of_o body_n the_o latter_a by_o scripture_n viz._n isai_n 63._o and_o the_o gloss_n upon_o it_o and_o by_o his_o mother_n not_o visit_v he_o and_o by_o the_o promise_n make_v to_o good_a josiah_n 2_o king_n 22.3_o the_o motion_n of_o angel_n from_o place_n to_o place_n make_v it_o at_o least_o probable_a that_o their_o knowledge_n be_v not_o alike_o when_o they_o be_v absent_a as_o when_o they_o be_v present_a with_o we_o i_o confess_v that_o aquinas_n say_v their_o motion_n from_o place_n to_o place_n be_v in_o order_n to_o operation_n not_o knowledge_n ibid._n q._n 55._o art_n 2._o ad_fw-la 3m._o but_o however_o they_o be_v here_o as_o executioner_n of_o god_n pleasure_n in_o work_n of_o judgement_n or_o mercy_n yet_o it_o may_v seem_v that_o they_o also_o go_v about_o to_o see_v the_o carriage_n work_n and_o deal_n of_o man_n whereof_o they_o be_v say_v to_o make_v report_n zech._n 1.10_o 11._o nor_o be_v this_o for_o information_n of_o god_n as_o if_o he_o know_v not_o what_o man_n do_v but_o rather_o that_o the_o angel_n behold_v by_o themselves_o man_n action_n may_v justify_v god_n in_o his_o punishment_n of_o the_o wicked_a and_o reward_v of_o his_o people_n or_o may_v acquaint_v the_o saint_n therewith_o who_o be_v not_o messenger_n as_o angel_n have_v their_o constant_a abode_n in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n this_o seem_v to_o be_v augustine_n conceit_n if_o the_o book_n be_v his_o for_o he_o lay_v down_o two_o mean_n whereby_o the_o saint_n may_v know_v what_o have_v be_v do_v on_o earth_n 63.16_o lib._n de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la morl._n apud_fw-la lyarn_n in_o be_v 63.16_o viz._n the_o relation_n of_o those_o who_o die_v and_o so_o come_v to_o they_o or_o else_o the_o relation_n of_o angel_n who_o be_v present_a with_o we_o in_o our_o action_n now_o if_o angel_n know_v not_o humane_a affair_n alike_o when_o absent_a as_o when_o they_o be_v present_a what_o ground_n have_v we_o to_o think_v that_o bless_a soul_n have_v this_o privilege_n 4._o it_o be_v false_a that_o soul_n in_o their_o state_n of_o separation_n have_v a_o hear_n or_o understand_v quite_o other_o from_o that_o of_o soul_n immerce_v and_o plunge_v in_o flesh_n and_o blood_n for_o except_v the_o want_n of_o the_o ministry_n of_o sense_n the_o soul_n have_v the_o same_o manner_n of_o understanding_n in_o its_o separate_a estate_n that_o it_o have_v while_o in_o the_o body_n though_o more_o accurate_a and_o less_o laborious_a and_o the_o reason_n be_v clear_a because_o understanding_n follow_v the_o nature_n or_o essence_n of_o the_o soul_n which_o in_o both_o estate_n be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o do_v the_o soul_n understand_v by_o species_n while_o in_o the_o body_n 6._o p._n 1._o q._n 83._o art_n 6._o so_o it_o do_v still_o as_o aquinas_n hold_v do_v the_o soul_n understand_v by_o discourse_n so_o it_o do_v still_o not_o only_a understanding_n one_o thing_n after_o another_o but_o one_o thing_n by_o another_o 2._o object_n you_o say_v it_o will_v be_v oppose_v be_v it_o saint_n can_v hear_v at_o what_o distance_n soever_o yet_o this_o not_o possible_a unless_o object_n be_v propose_v and_o what_o capacity_n in_o prayer_n send_v so_o far_o off_o as_o to_o reach_v to_o heaven_n reply_v catholic_n boast_v not_o of_o any_o such_o virtue_n in_o their_o prayer_n but_o they_o believe_v as_o be_v confess_v by_o all_o that_o god_n be_v every_o where_o and_o that_o he_o be_v the_o chief_a and_o principal_a cause_n of_o all_o effect_n and_o so_o of_o man_n prayer_n now_o it_o be_v the_o property_n of_o every_o cause_n to_o relate_v to_o its_o effect_n and_o so_o to_o represent_v the_o same_o as_o look_v glass_n do_v face_n and_o other_o oppose_a object_n the_o saint_n who_o happiness_n consist_v in_o a_o clear_a vision_n of_o god_n must_v needs_o see_v and_o behold_v among_o other_o effect_n of_o his_o goodness_n and_o mercy_n the_o petition_n of_o those_o who_o become_v humble_a suitor_n to_o they_o answ_n 1._o they_o that_o grant_v that_o saint_n can_v hear_v at_o any_o distance_n be_v not_o very_o wise_a to_o object_v the_o distance_n betwixt_o earth_n and_o heaven_n and_o i_o be_o persuade_v none_o do_v so_o but_o you_o travel_v to_o set_v forth_o your_o late_a invent_a and_o unconceivable_a looking-glass_n which_o like_o randolphs_n pedlar_n you_o will_v not_o fall_v to_o vent_v among_o other_o popish_a trumpery_n and_o indeed_o you_o show_v yourself_o a_o peddle_a scholar_n in_o bring_v it_o in_o implicit_o deny_v what_o you_o have_v express_o assert_v a_o little_a before_o for_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o saint_n can_v hear_v at_o any_o distance_n but_o now_o as_o if_o your_o conscience_n have_v check_v you_o for_o that_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o its_o god_n in_o who_o presence_n they_o be_v that_o reveal_v it_o to_o they_o but_o second_o how_o do_v you_o prove_v that_o god_n be_v the_o author_n or_o cause_n of_o prayer_n to_o saint_n he_o do_v never_o so_o much_o as_o command_v they_o nor_o the_o prophet_n or_o apostle_n in_o scripture_n give_v we_o one_o example_n of_o they_o till_o you_o prove_v it_o a_o christian_a duty_n you_o can_v entitle_v god_n to_o it_o as_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o any_o more_o than_o to_o sin_v which_o you_o say_v he_o do_v only_o suffer_v and_o permit_v p._n 79._o god_n do_v not_o allow_v any_o to_o give_v his_o glory_n to_o another_o much_o less_o do_v he_o concur_v in_o assist_v he_o therein_o three_o its_o false_a that_o its_o the_o property_n of_o every_o cause_n to_o relate_v to_o its_o effect_n and_o so_o to_o represent_v the_o same_o as_o looking-glass_n do_v face_n and_o other_o oppose_a object_n if_o this_o be_v true_a then_o when_o you_o see_v a_o workman_n you_o shall_v in_o he_o see_v all_o his_o work_n and_o so_o one_o man_n shall_v be_v a_o looking-glass_n to_o another_o which_o will_v make_v good_a store_n of_o looking-glass_n and_o strange_a one_o too_o it_o be_v true_a some_o cause_n do_v represent_v their_o effect_n so_o there_o be_v effect_n that_o represent_v their_o cause_n and_o that_o more_o like_a glass_n representation_n of_o the_o face_n or_o other_o object_n so_o that_o you_o may_v as_o well_o prove_v that_o every_o effect_n do_v represent_v its_o cause_n
and_o every_o thing_n in_o it_o and_o consequent_o that_o the_o creature_n do_v full_o represent_v the_o divine_a essence_n and_o yet_o the_o scripture_n tell_v we_o that_o none_o can_v see_v god_n and_o live_v 2._o it_o be_v untrue_a that_o in_o see_v the_o divine_a essence_n you_o see_v all_o its_o effect_n ibid._n aquin._n 1._o part_n 7.12_o art_n 8._o per_fw-la tot_fw-la &_o cajet_fw-fr ibid._n aquinas_n demonstrate_v the_o contrary_a by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o angel_n who_o see_v the_o divine_a essence_n yet_o be_v ignorant_a of_o future_a contingency_n and_o the_o thought_n of_o the_o heart_n and_o he_o further_o show_v that_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a that_o he_o that_o see_v a_o glass_n shall_v see_v all_o thing_n in_o the_o glass_n unless_o he_o perfect_o comprehend_v the_o glass_n in_o his_o sight_n now_o there_o be_v no_o creature_n that_o do_v perfect_o comprehend_v god_n cyril_n excellent_o set_v this_o forth_o of_o the_o angel_n speak_v of_o god_n 169._o cyril_n hieros_n catech._n 7._o p._n 169._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d etc._n etc._n who_o face_n the_o angel_n do_v perpetual_o see_v in_o heaven_n but_o they_o see_v every_o one_o according_a to_o the_o measure_n of_o his_o own_o degree_n but_o the_o sublime_a splendour_n of_o the_o fatherly_a vision_n its_o lawful_a only_o for_o the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o behold_v do_v you_o think_v that_o the_o saint_n see_v in_o god_n the_o thought_n of_o man_n heart_n yet_o many_o prayer_n be_v no_o more_o but_o the_o inward_a groan_n of_o the_o heart_n if_o you_o say_v they_o do_v then_o according_a to_o aquinas_n they_o arrogate_v that_o which_o be_v proper_a to_o god_n if_o not_o than_o they_o see_v not_o all_o the_o efect_n in_o god_n and_o you_o have_v not_o give_v we_o any_o distinction_n of_o effect_n visible_a or_o not_o visible_a 3._o object_n you_o say_v it_o will_v be_v oppose_v if_o saint_n and_o angel_n have_v not_o man_n prayer_n before_o god_n propose_v they_o he_o know_v they_o beforehand_o whence_o may_v be_v infer_v that_o their_o intercession_n be_v needless_a answ_n 1._o god_n foresight_n of_o man_n prayer_n make_v not_o the_o intercession_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n any_o way_n unprofitable_a and_o fruitless_a inasmuch_o as_o the_o effect_n intend_v thereby_o be_v not_o to_o better_a god_n understanding_n but_o to_o obtain_v from_o his_o bless_a will_n mercy_n and_o compassion_n etc._n etc._n reply_v 1._o the_o objection_n do_v not_o refer_v to_o god_n foresight_n mere_o which_o may_v be_v from_o all_o eternity_n he_o foresee_v all_o thing_n before_o they_o be_v but_o to_o god_n actual_a receive_n of_o they_o from_o we_o and_o so_o propose_v they_o to_o the_o saint_n now_o i_o assert_v that_o this_o do_v make_v the_o intercession_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n unprofitable_a yea_o no_o intercession_n for_o first_o according_a to_o papist_n the_o reason_n why_o we_o look_v for_o a_o intercessor_n be_v this_o we_o dare_v not_o come_v to_o god_n immediate_o hence_o be_v that_o courtlike_a instance_n and_o frequent_o urge_v of_o a_o subject_n who_o not_o dare_v to_o come_v into_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o king_n immediate_o present_v his_o petition_n to_o some_o of_o his_o courtier_n and_o by_o he_o to_o the_o king_n but_o here_o forget_v your_o instance_n you_o first_o present_v your_o petition_n to_o the_o king_n make_v he_o your_o letter_n carrier_n to_o his_o courtier_n and_o this_o say_v you_o for_o this_o end_n that_o his_o courtier_n may_v move_v his_o goodness_n which_o how_o rational_a it_o be_v let_v the_o simple_a of_o your_o synagogue_n judge_n 2._o according_a to_o your_o rhemist_n the_o property_n of_o a_o mediator_n or_o intercessor_n be_v to_o offer_v up_o our_o prayer_n to_o god_n now_o he_o that_o offer_v up_o any_o thing_n to_o another_o do_v not_o immediate_o receive_v his_o offering_n from_o he_o to_o who_o he_o offer_v but_o from_o he_o for_o who_o he_o offer_v to_o say_v saint_n receive_v prayer_n from_o god_n that_o they_o may_v offer_v they_o to_o god_n be_v very_o harsh_a and_o unscripturall_a language_n reply_v 2._o if_o our_o prayer_n go_v immediate_o to_o god_n and_o then_o to_o saint_n and_o they_o immediate_o obtain_v from_o god_n bless_a will_n mercy_n and_o compassion_n from_o we_o what_o room_n have_v christ_n for_o his_o intercession_n or_o how_o be_v saint_n mediatores_fw-la ad_fw-la mediatorem_fw-la it_o be_v difficult_a to_o set_v up_o saint_n as_o intercessor_n and_o not_o to_o nullify_v the_o intercession_n of_o christ_n jesus_n but_o you_o urge_v prince_n have_v often_o notice_n of_o subject_n imprisonment_n and_o condemnation_n yet_o seldom_o give_v reprive_v of_o inlargement_n but_o at_o the_o entreaty_n of_o some_o friend_n or_o favourite_n reply_v 1_o prince_n do_v not_o usual_o receive_v and_o deliver_v petition_n direct_v to_o their_o favourite_n that_o thereby_o their_o favourite_n may_v move_v they_o to_o compassion_n 2._o prince_n often_o give_v reprieve_n or_o inlargement_n at_o the_o entreaty_n of_o the_o imprison_a or_o condemn_v 3._o the_o apostle_n tell_v we_o clear_o who_o be_v that_o favourite_n that_o receive_v our_o petition_n do_v procure_v reprieve_n or_o enlargement_n for_o guilty_a sinner_n viz._n jesus_n christ_n the_o righteous_a 1_o john_n 2.1_o 2._o you_o answer_v man_n be_v wish_v yea_o warrant_v to_o pray_v for_o one_o another_o 1_o tim._n 2._o notwithstanding_o god_n have_v the_o foresight_n of_o their_o want_n and_o necessity_n reply_v 1_o for_o shame_n do_v not_o thus_o fight_v with_o your_o own_o shadow_n what_o protestant_a doubt_n of_o god_n foresight_n of_o prayer_n or_o who_o assert_n that_o prayer_n be_v for_o the_o better_n of_o god_n understanding_n 2._o when_o man_n pray_v one_o for_o another_o they_o have_v not_o the_o sight_n of_o your_o supercelestial_a utopian_a looking-glass_n but_o be_v by_o their_o friend_n acquaint_v with_o their_o want_n they_o be_v entreat_v to_o join_v with_o they_o in_o seek_v god_n mercy_n through_o jesus_n christ_n 3._o you_o answer_v david_n adultery_n and_o guilt_n of_o blood_n be_v in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n unpardoned_a till_o after_o a_o low_a humiliation_n and_o a_o hearty_a acknowledgement_n of_o his_o fault_n 1_o king_n 12._o reply_n this_o be_v nothing_o to_o purpose_n shall_v pass_v unanswered_a till_o you_o can_v make_v it_o appear_v more_o material_a 5._o objection_n the_o five_o objection_n be_v the_o roman_a church_n entertain_v division_n and_o contrariety_n in_o religion_n the_o dominican_n maintain_v a_o physical_a predetermination_n the_o jesuit_n a_o moral_a those_o that_o the_o virgin_n mary_n be_v conceive_v in_o original_a sin_n these_o that_o she_o be_v prevent_v by_o grace_n and_o conceive_v in_o the_o same_o and_o if_o this_o be_v not_o enough_o to_o infer_v contrariety_n in_o religion_n several_a counsel_n have_v contradict_v each_o other_o answ_n 1._o not_o every_o difference_n but_o a_o difference_n in_o point_n of_o faith_n make_v division_n and_o contrariety_n in_o religion_n the_o dominican_n and_o jesuit_n only_o quarrel_n about_o opinion_n it_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o belief_n that_o god_n predestination_n be_v physical_a or_o moral_a or_o that_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v conceive_v in_o original_a sin_n or_o grace_n these_o be_v mere_a school_n nicety_n and_o not_o at_o all_o destructive_a to_o that_o unity_n which_o catholic_n so_o much_o reverence_n in_o religion_n reply_v 1_o you_o deal_v deceitful_o with_o your_o follower_n and_o we_o in_o make_v your_o many_o division_n to_o seem_v few_o and_o your_o great_a one_o small_a be_v the_o difference_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n only_o two_o viz._n about_o predetermination_n and_o the_o virgin_n mary_n whosoever_o read_v azorius_n moral_n but_o especial_o bellarmine_n controversy_n shall_v find_v scarce_o one_o point_n of_o divinity_n wherein_o there_o be_v not_o difference_n among_o papist_n some_o have_v number_v 300._o different_a opinion_n of_o papist_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n controversy_n and_o those_o about_o point_n controvert_v between_o they_o and_o we_o now_o if_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o and_o we_o be_v about_o point_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o seem_v they_o be_v else_o we_o can_v not_o be_v account_v heretical_a and_o not_o mere_a opinion_n their_o be_v no_o question_n but_o they_o be_v of_o the_o same_o nature_n there_o be_v no_o opinion_n of_o the_o church_n but_o have_v some_o one_o or_o more_o papist_n join_v with_o we_o in_o oppose_v it_o 2._o you_o may_v have_v do_v well_o to_o have_v inform_v we_o what_o be_v point_n of_o faith_n and_o what_o opinion_n for_o these_o point_v you_o mention_v seem_v to_o be_v point_n of_o faith_n for_o first_o those_o thing_n that_o constitute_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n with_o you_o agree_v to_o they_o as_o first_o its_o authority_n from_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o you_o branch_n into_o scriptrre_n and_o