Saynts vsed by way of deuout remembrance they would haue accused Epiphanius of impiety towards Christ and his Saints and not onely of iniustice in renting in peeces the Cloth without paying the price therof saying si scindere voluerat iustū erat vt aliud daret velum mutaret doth by this relation more then insinuate that this was the Image of some prophane man hanging in the Church as if it had been a sacred Image of Christ or of some Saint which is gathered by his reason When I saw saith he against the authority of the Scriptures the Image of a man hanging in the Church not absolutely any Image as M. White citeth him for euen by Gods expresse command Images were placed in the Temple but the Image of a man Why doth Epiphanius so much vrge the impiety of the fact in regard that it was the Image of a man but that he vnderstood by the word Man a meere ordinary prophane man not a blessed Saint For certainly it might seeme more against the authority of Scriptures to make and set vp in churches the image of God then the image of holy men the image of Christ according to his godhead thē as he is a mā so that there was no cause why (n) The Minister here setteth downe other answers giuen by Catholicks vnto this place of Epiphanius some of which he would haue thought better then this of the Iesuit and that the Iesuits is sleighted by Bellarmine which discourse is to litle purpose This is certayne that if other solutions he better then this yet this is so good as the Minister hath not been able to speake a wise word agaynst it as is more largely shewed in the Censure Sect. 1. §. 1. And whereas some authors thinke that Epiphanius in regard of the errour of the Anthropomorphilae whereof he was a great Ennemy did reproue this Image of the Anablathans as being of God in the forme of man although this conceyte doth not help the Ministers fancy nor make against vs yet is it not so conforme to the text as is the Iesuits Which any man may perceaue that will peruse attentiuely the text of Epiphanius and compare these two solutions therewith Epiphanius should put so much Emphasis in the word man had he not vnderstood a prophane man For some Christians in those Dayes being newly conuerted from Paganisme and so retaining some Reliques therof did out of their affection to their deceased friends and parents vse to paint their images and offer vnto them oblations of Frankincēse other the like Heathenish honour especially in their Anniuersaryes Dayes vpon their sepulchers These men S. Augustine de mor. Eccl. c. 36. reprehends and not the worshippers of Saints Images vnder the title of Sepulchrorum picturarum adoratores who to the ghosts of their parents defunct did though Christians offer that Heathenish worship which the Poet exhorteth vnto Non pigeat tumulis animas excire paternas Paucaque in extructos mittere thura rogos Parua petunt manes Wherfore seing this Minister so much esteemed in the Church of England in proofe of the Roman Churches change brings nothing but manifest falshoods so many in so few lines any indifferent man may cōclude that worship of Images hath continued without change euer since the Apostles For if any change in such a matter as this had bene made it would haue bene most euident when and by whom so great a Nouelty was introduced The places of Exodus Deut. with no probability vrged against the worship of Images by Protestants that make them §. 3. AGAINST Image-worshippe Protestants bring the places of Exodus Chap. 20. v. 4. and 5. and of Deuteronomy Chap. 5. v. 6. and the 7. Thou shalt not haue false gods before me Thou shalt not make to thy selfe a grauen Image or any likenes either in heauen aboue or on earth below or of things that are vnder waters or vnder ground thou shalt not adore nor worshippe them Which place I wonder they can thinke stronge inough to ouerthrow a custome in which the rules of Nature the Principles of Christianity the perpetuall Tradition of gods Church doth settle Christians For this place makes against (i) Note that the question between vs and Protestants is not whether the Image of an adored persō may lawfully be made for this they grant but whether the image of an adored person lawfully made may be adored We affirme and they deny but for their deniall haue not one sillable of Scripture The Minister pag. 259. lin 3. brings the brasen Serpent and golden Cherubims that were made yet could not be adored but these examples are impertinēt as hath been shewed because they were not proper images of adored persōs wherof wee speake though S. Hierome Epistola 70. also say that the Golden Cherubims were adored The Iconomachi the Turks and Iewes who thinke that to make any image of an adored person is vnlawfull consequently forbid adoratiō haue for them a little shew of Scripture which sayth thou shalt no make any image nor adore it But Protestants that grant that the proper images of adored persons may be lawfully made but deny they may be lawfully adored haue against them the light and instinct of nature and for them neither any example of Scripture nor any text that may make so much as a little shew them or not against vs which I proue thus The images we are forbidden to worship we are forbidden to make Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen Image thou shalt not adore them nor worshippe them Contrariwise the images we may lawfully make we may also lawfully adore or worshippe if they be images of venerable and adorable persons as before hath bene shewed But the images we worship of Christ Protestants make yea some to wit Lutherans set them vp in their Churches and they are images of an adorable Person Ergo they cannot condemne our adoration of images except likewise they condemne their making them as against Gods law If they answere we are not forbidden to make thē but only not to make thē with purpose intention to adore them they discouer much partiality and not so much reuerence to Gods expresse 〈◊〉 as they pretend for the words of Gods law are as cleere and expresse against making of Images as against worshippinge of them Thou shalt not make them Thou shalt not adore them If then Protestants to excuse their custome of making of images may to Gods expresse word Thou shalt not make them adde by way of explication with purpose and intention to adore them why may not (k) The Minister pag. 259. obiects that this precept Thou shalt not make to thy selfe a grauen image is expounded by the greatest number of Papists to wit with purpose to adore I answere Some Catholike Interpreters expound Thou shalt not make any image to wit with purpose to worship the same as God or with diuine worshippe referred vnto it or
Catalogue of Doctours in his Epistle to the Reader sayth In the yeare 605. more then a thousand yeares agoe falshood preuayled and then was the whole world ouerwhelmed in the dreggs of Antichristian filthines abominable Traditions and superstitions of the Pope M. Perkins in his exposition of the Creed pag. 307. 400. sayth During the space of Nine hundred yeares the Popish Heresy hath spread it selfe ouer the whole world and for many hundred yeares an vniuersall Apostacy ouerspread the whole face of the earth so that our Protestant Church was not then visible to the world M. Fulke treatise agaynst Stapleton and Martiall pag. 25. The Pope hath blinded the world these many hundred yeares some say 900. some 1000. some 1200. Mayster Napier Reuelat. pag. 64. 101. The Antichristian and Papisticall raygne beganne about the yeare 316. after Christ raigning vniuersally without debatable contradiction Gods true Church abiding certainly bidden and latent confessed by the Proteâ—tants whose testimonies plentifull in this behalfe if need require shall be brought First that the doctrines of the Roman Church which Protestants refuse haue byn vniuersally receyued for many ages a thousand yeares at least euer since Boniface the third Secondly that Protestants cannot tell the tyme when the Church of Rome began to change and deuiate from the Apostolicall doctrine deliuered by succession Ergo the Roman Church neuer changed her fayth so that her doctrines are to be receaued as Apostolicall if the Maior of the first argument be true to wit that (n) The Minister pag. 15. sayth The Iesuite conueyeth into S. Augustins proposition certayne wordes to wit doctrines vniuersally receiued c. which are not found in S. Augustine for this Father did neuer allow that the vniuersall Church belieue any doctrin of faith not coÌ„maÌ„ded in Scripture I answere The wordes of S. Augustine will discouer the Minister what he is for these they are formally in the place cited by the Iesuite l. 5. de baptis c. 23. Many things are Held by the Vniuersall Church therefore are TRVLY belieued to haue beene COMMANDED by the Apostles though they be NOT WRITTEN Thus he And though there be no doctrine which may not be in some sort proued by Scripture and deriued from thence by coÌ„sequence yet this Logicall Deduction doth not suffice to make doctrines to be vniuersally matters of fayth except they be also deliuered expresly by Tradition or the word of God vnwritten as hath been often shewed in this Reioynder doctrines vniuersally receyued whose beginning are not knowne are to be belieued as Apostolicall And what more true this being a principle set downe by S. Augustine lib. 4. de Baptism cont Donat. c. 6. lib. 5. cap. 23. allowed by Doctour Whitguift late Archbishop of Canterbury Defence pag. 351. 352. who in his booke written by publike authority agaynst Puritans citing diuers Protestants as concurring in opinion with him sayth Whatsoeuer opinions are not known to haue begunne since the Apostles tyme the same are not new or secundary but receyued their originall from the Apostles But because this principle of Christian Diuinity brings in as M. Cartwright there alleadged speaketh all Popery in the Iudgment of all men I will further demonstrate the same though of it selfe cleere inough The spirit of Christ or Christ by his spirit being still with the Church cannot permit errours in fayth so to creepe into the church as they grow irreformable eueÌ„ by the principles of christianity but if errours could so creepe into the church as their beginning could not be known since the Apostles and neuer be espyed till they be vniuersally receaued then errour could so creepe into the Church preuayle that by the principles of christianity they are irreformable This I prooue because errors 〈◊〉 (o) The Minister sayth that the errours of the Pharisees were vniuersally receaued in the Iewish Church and yet reformed by our Sauiour I answere First his desire to make our ReligioÌ„ like the Pharisees makes him fashion vnto the Pharisees a Religion of his owne head as if he had neuer read the Ghospell For the Traditions of the Pharisies were certaine practises of piety inuented by themselues deducted by their skill from Scripture wherby they would seeme singularly religious non sicut caeteri hominum Secondly Christ Iesus prouing himselfe to be true God might reforme errours vniuersally receaued the Church of the Iewes falling erect a new Church of Christians as he did But this is lawfull for no man eyther before or since For Christian Religion must continue vntill the worlds end by vertue of the first Tradition therof neuer interrupted without extraordinary and Propheticall beginning by immediate reuelation miracles and so if errours be deliuered by the full consent of Christian Tradition they are irreformable irreformable by the Principles of â—hristianity when whosoeuer vndertakes 〈◊〉 reforme them is by the Principles of â—hristianity to be condemned as an Hereâ—â—ke But he that will vndertake to reâ—orme doctrines vniuersally receaued by â—he church opposeth agaynst the whole Church and therfore is by the most receaâ—ed and knowne principle of Christianity and Christs owne direct precept to be accounted as an (p) The Minister sayth that one man may oppose the whole Church and oppugne her errours by Scripture and not be as an Heathen or Heretike For not euery one that opposeth the Church is to be accounted an Heathen but only such as in ordinatly and without iust cause oppugne it Thus he pag. 136. I answere By this doctrine euery particular man is made examiner of the whole Church and her iudge and Hellish Confusion brought into Christendome If agaynst the sentence of perpetuall vniuersall Tradition a priuate maÌ„ may without Heresy pretende Scripture stand stifly therin and though the Church giue seeming appearing answeres vnto his Scriptures yet coÌ„demne her saying these answeres are sophisticall as our Minister doth p. 581. what can be more disorderly or what is hereticall obstinacy if this be not Wherfore S. August epist. 48. sayth absolutly it is impossible men should haue iust cause to depart and impugne the whole ChristiaÌ„ Church adding nos cerâ—ò scimus herof we Christians are sure And why but because it is a ruled Christian case He that heareth not the Church is an Heretike Heathen and Publican Matth. 18. vers 17. And as S. Augustine â—ayth Epist. 118. to dispute agaynst the whole Church is most insolent madnes specially wheÌ„ the doctrin is ancient without any known beginning as are the supposed erroneous customes doctrins of the RomaÌ„ Church For then the vndertaking Reformer must striue agaynst not only the whole present Church but also the whole streame of the visible Church tyme out of mind since the Apostles Et quis ad haec idoneus who is able to beginne a new course of Christianity and to ouerthrow that doctrine which is vniuersally receyued cannot be prooued by any Traditions of Ancestours
Theodos. Nor as the sanctifyer of our soule dwelling in the same by grace Hierom in Prouerb c. 2. Nullum inuocare idâ—â— intus orando vocare nisi Deum debemus Thirdly that the Preist doth not inuocate Saints by direct prayer in the Lyturgy of the Masse which being a sacrifice the deuotion therof is to be directed to God onely Augustine lib. 22. de ciuit c. 10. Carthag 4. c. 23. Fourthly that our friends that are deceased do not now heare vs in the familiar manner they were wont conuersing with vs. Hierom. ad Heliodor de obitu Nepotiam whatsoeuer I write seemeth to be dead 〈◊〉 because Nepotian doth not heare it to wit iâ— visible manner delighting therein and applauding the same as he was accustomed to doe in his life-time (c) HeÌ„ce appeareth the impertineÌ„cy of the Minister that so often vrgeth this place of S. Hierome pag. 29.2 lin 22. Orthodoxe pa. 54. li. 6. Fiftly that they do not know what is done in this world by their natural forces Augustine de cura pro mortuis c. 16. Per diuinam potentiam Martyres viuorum rebus intersunt quoniam defuncti per naturam propriam viuorum rebus interesse non possunt Sixthly speaking vnto some deceased persons they make an If whether they heare them or not because they speake vnto such as they knew not certainly to be Saints Nazianzen orat 3. in Iulian. (d) The Minister here sayth Did not the Fathers reckon Constantine to be in ioy and glory and yet Gregory Nazianzen vsing an Apostrophe to him sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Heare o thou Spirit of Great Constantine if thou hast any notion of these thinges I Answere you falsify the text of Nazianzen both in the Greeke in your English translatioÌ„ For his words are Heare o thou Spirit of Great Constantius if thou haue any notion of these thinges Yea that we might see you corrupt the text wilâ—â—lly against your conscience euen in this very Reply in this poynt â—f controuersy you cite the same pag. 359. lit a. in this manner Audi etiam 〈◊〉 Constantij magni anima siquis mortuus sensus est Heare o thou Spirit of â—reat Constantius c. Now Constantius was an Arian and a persecutour of Catholickes vnto his dying day though on his death bed it was sayd â—e made some kind of repentance Hence S. Gregory NazianzeÌ„ might doubt â—f his being in Glory and say Heare if thou haue any notion of these â—â—inges The same Father in his funerall Oration for his sister Gorgonia where he sayth Sister admit of this oration in lieu of many funerall offeâ—â—ngs If this reward be giuen to holy soules to feele these things he doth not doubt of her hearing his prayers but only whether she receaued an humane naturall content in that his affectuous Panigyricall made in her prayse THIS truth supposed I cannot but coÌ„ceaue that your Maiesty professing so much loue to the first primitiue ages may â—eceaue satisfaction about this point the causes of Protestants dislikes being weake and not to be opposed against the strength of so long continued authority as I shall endeauour to demonstrate in their eight usuall Exceptions Inuocation of Saints not to be disliked because not expressed in Scripture §. 2. AND first I must satisfy the transcendeÌ„tall cause of their dislike (a) Confess August art 12. Fulke against Rhem. which is that worship and Inuocation of Saints deceased is no where expressely set downe in Scripture without expresse warrant wherof nothing may lawfully be done that belongs to Religion But this though carrying a shew of deuotion in the conceit of common people is altogether vnworthy of the erudition of any learned Protestant For howsoeuer in the beginning of their separation they did (b) Luther l de seruo arb serm de Cruce siue expresso Dei mandato cry for expresse Scripture expresse Commands oâ— the Written Word yet now they are 〈◊〉 gone (c) Wotton in his Tryall pag. 89. from that principle as they are exceeding angry (d) Iohn White in his defence pag. 228. with vs that wâ— should thinke that any of theirs were 〈◊〉 any time broachers of such an absurdity Wherfore in their written bookes whâ—â— they teach in Pulpits I know not they (e) D. Field of the Church l. 4. c. 20. Whitaker de sacra Scrip. cont 1. q. 6. disclaime from expresse Scripture and thinke it a sufficient warrant of a Christâ—â—â— custome that the same be (f) Note that it is one thing to be expressed in Scripture and another to be grouÌ„ded on Scripture All Christian doctrine is not expressed in Scripture yet euery Christian doctrin is so grouÌ„ded on Scripture that it may in some sort or other be proued from Scripture grounded â—â— Scripture that is may be deduced by good discourse from truthes reuealed therin 〈◊〉 be proued consonant to the rules principles therof according to which ample extent of Scriptures vnto things deducible from them or consonant vnto them there is no Catholike custome that hath not warrant in Gods word as we are able to shew This onely we require that ignorant people be not Iudges of such inferences an office so farre aboue their capacity as I am perswaded no vnlearned man that hath in him any sparke of humility or any mediocrity of Iudgement will vndertake it For no man is competent to iudge assuredly of argumeÌ„ts by deduction froÌ„ Scripture that hath not exact skill of Scripture to know the false sense from the true as of Logicke to distinguish Syllogismes from Paralogismes being able to giue sentence of the truth of principles by the one and of the inferences by the other A thing so hard as euen learned Deuines do much suspect their owne sufficiency to iudge of deductions dare not absolutely pronounce their sentence but referre the same to definitions of authority which besides skill of Scripture Logicke hath the promise of Gods perpetuall assistance in teaching the Christian Church Wherfore if Protestants will bind vs to bring expresse Scripture for the worship of Imags Adoration of the Sacrament Inuocation of Saintes they must themselues likewise be bound to bring expresse Scripture against Anabaptists for (g) D. Field l. 4. of the Church c. 20. saith It is no where expressely deliuered in Scripture christening of Infants and for the keeping of the Sunday in lieu of the ancient Sabboath Day for their dedicating of (h) CoÌ„cerning the Protestants keeping festiuall daies of Saints with religious solemnity the Minister saith not a word which is tacitely to grant that this duty of ReligioÌ„ is vsed piously by the English Church although the same waÌ„t the warrant of Scripture why then may not Catholicks pray vnto Saintes though there were no warrant in Scripture for such practise Dayes in memory of the Apostles with religious solemnity for the (i) Concerning the Crosse in baptisme the Minister saith pag. 302. that it is
Wisdome and grace see in that modest looke Trueth 's triumph errors downfall in this booke Maerebunt piscatores Isa. 19.8 Tocksonus sculpâ—â—â— THE ANSWERE VNTO The Nine Points of Controuersy Proposed by our late Soueraygne of Famous Memory vnto M. Fisher of the Society of IESVS AND THE REIOYNDER Vnto the Reply of D. Francis VVhite Minister With the Picture of the sayd Minister or Censure of his Writings prefixed Be ready alwayes to giue an ANSWERE to euery one that asketh you a reason of the Hope that is in you 1 Petr. 3. Vers. 15. Permissu Superiorum M.DC.XXVI TO THE MOST HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE CHARLES KING OF Great Brittayne France and Ireland c. MOST GRACIOVS SOVERAIGNE These Theologicall Labours which we now publish were vndertaken by Order of our late Soueraygne of Famous Memory for his desired Satisfaction about some of the principall Points which with-held his Royall ioyning vnto the Church of Rome The Authour when he penned them did expect they should haue been kept within the priuate Library of his Princely Reading and not made publike to the World as afterward they were by a Doctour Minister togeather with a Voluminous Reply wherin he seekes to disgrace them by much bitternes of speach vttered in the violence of his Zeale This imposed an Obligation vpon the Authour to reuiew them agayne and to set them forth whole and entiere purged from the faults of hand-writing misprision cleered from the cloudes cast vpon them by ignorant Cauill strenghthened with some new Collaterall Additions of more euident Explication and Proofe Which Labours renewned published we humbly offer vnto your most Excellent Maiesty as vnto the Heyre not only of your Renowned Fathers Dignity and State but also of his Wisdome and Vertue in whome is perpetuated as the Nobility of his Bloud so the Excellency of his Mind And though it be their hard fortune to appeare in your Presence at the time wheÌ„ the light of your Royall Clemency is towardes your Catholicke Subiects eclypsed yet for themselues they confide to find some speciall Fauour not to be forbidden or banished your Maiestyes Dominions in that they be Natiffe of your Royall Fathers Command by the WarraÌ„t of his Authority borne into the World whose Sacred Pleasure through pious Excesse of Filiall Affection You still reuerence after his Discease Neyther can it be for the credit of our Aduersaryes or of their Cause that free Accesse should be denyed vnto these Writings which as themselues testify were by the sound of Authority summoned vnto the Combat vpon supposition that thereby Our weakenes and want of strength would manifestly appeare For thus they write The better to discouer their weaknes D. Whites Preface to plucke them out of their Fox-hole of Personall Succession and visibility the King imposed the Taske of writing vpon the Nine Questions knowing our Aduersaryes to be cunning and subtill in eluding our Arguments but of no strength especially in particular Questions to proue their owne Tenet or to confirme their Fayth by sacred Scripture or Auncient Tradition If after so solemne Inuitation vnto the Combat if after so bold Promises that in these Writings our weakenes would be discouered if after so great assurance giuen to their Credents that we cannot confirme our Religion by Scripture these challenged Writings be stayed by Authority not to enter into the Field this may yield vnto Iudicious Protestants iust reason to suspect that weaknes and want of strength rather lyeth on their side and that the Patrons of their Reformed Religion place their confidence of Victory rather in the Partiality of the State then in the Euidence of the Scripture in the behalfe of their Doctrines And as these Tytles euen the Credit of the Protestant Cause pleade for the free permission of this Booke so the Booke it selfe contaynes nothing that may cause the hinderance of so due a fauour Therin no person in Authority is censured no matter of State touched nothing vttered that may iustly offeÌ„d only the euideÌ„ce of Gods Holy Word is vrged in defence of that Religion which euen in your Royall Iudgment is so farre from being impious in it selfe or an Enemy of your State as You haue by most happy choyce selected the same to be the Consort of your Crowne to be the Parent of those glorious Starres which according to the hope of all Loyall Subiects shal froÌ„ your Maiesties Throne by long continued Succession shine vnto these fortunate Kingdomes who by her euer-honoured Name of MARY but much more by the rare Excellency of her Vertues liuely represents the sweet Memory of your Right Glorious Grand-mother whiles she liued for Princely qualityes the Paragon of Europe and now a singular Ornament of the Heauens in regard of her coÌ„stancy in the Catholike Roman Religion vnto death that her enraged Enemyes not being able to conquer her Immortall Affection vnto the same feared not to shed her no lesse Innocent then Noble Bloud the Fountaine of Your Maiestyes Royall Rights vnto the Kingdoms of Great Brittayne to strike of that Thrice-Venerable Head more Glorious for the lustre of the One Catholike Fayth She maintayned then for the shining gemnes of Three Christian Crownes of which two She wore and the third was vndoubtedly her Due Your Royall Magnanimity timely tokens whereof appeared in your tender Yeares hath engaged the Harts of your Loyall Subiects in a secret Ioy of Hope that God by meanes of your Maiesty will illustrate this Kingdome by many rich Blessings of Temporall Glory In which Hope we are strengthned by the fortunate Name of Charles the First fortunate I say to bring Felicities vpon Kingdomes vnder by which Name France vnder Charles the Great Spayne vnder Charles the fifth Emperour but the first of that Name Kinge of Spayne surnamed Maximus the two mightiest Kingdoms of Europe aduanced to Imperial Dignity grew vnto the highest of worldly Greatnes In which respect it is not any disloyall Affection that we wish in our Harts and pray vnto the Soueraygne MoModeratour in whose hands are the Harts of Princes that he wil incline your Princely Hart to be fauourable vnto that Religion which only hath been Conquerant in former ages that hardly can any Christian King be named Renownedly Victorious that was not a Professour or a Fauourer therof Yea if we call to mind the most famous wonderfull victoryes that haue ennobled the ChristiaÌ„ Name we may find that they were fruits and effects of some Deuotions of the Catholike Roman Fayth questioned proued in this Treatise Constantine the first Christian Emperour surnamed the Great who doth not know that his Conquests were obtayned by his worshipping Euseb. in vita Constantini lib. 3. c. 2. Zozom l. 1. cap. 8. the signe of the Holy Crosse being doubtlesse of a contrary Religion vnto the Prime Religion-deuiser of this age Martin Luther who sayth of himselfe Luther Tom. 1. Wittemberg fol. 539. If I were a Souldier and should see in the field the
taken with agues and with death yea some with Ministers wiues Verily should Deane-ryes be giuen in England according to learning this your discourse about taking would deserue this verdict in the Iudgement of all learned â—en His Deane-ry let another man take The third Example §. 3. WHAT shall I say of your grosse misprision in translating which shewes your ignorance in Latine or else your fraudulency willfull impugnation of knowne truth To proue that Generall Councells may erre in â—ayth yow (k) Reply pag. 155. cite this saying of (l) Cusan lib. 2. concord c. 6. Cusanus Notandum est experimento rerum vniuersale Concilium plenarium posse deficere The true English wherof is It is to be noted that a plenary Vniuersall Councell may fâ—ile in the experiment of things or (m) deficere potest in experiendo ibid. matters of fact You translate Experience of things doth manifest that a plenary Vniuersall Councell may be deficient What grossenes is this Doth notandum signify manifest what more manifest though not noted by yow then that Cusanus (n) Docet Augustinus quomodo plenaria coÌ„cilia per subsequentia CoÌ„cilia corrigantur ob FACTI ERROREM ibid. by experiment of things meanes matters of fact For his drift is to shew that former Councels may be corrected by the later ob facti errorem in respect of errours in matter of fact otherwise in matters of fayth that plenary vniuersall Councells are INFALLIBLE Cusanus doth (o) Si concordanti senteÌ„tia aliquid definitum fuerit censetur à Spiritu sancto inspiratum per Christum in medio congregatorum in eius nomine praesidentem INFALLIBILITER iudicatum ibid. c. 4. hold and proue in that very Booke To proue that all Heretiks pretend not scripture (p) Orthodox pag. 41. 42. yow cite S. Augustine as saying All heretikes reade not scriptures (q) August lib. 7. in Gen. c. â— whose wordes in Latin be Neque enim non omnes haeretici scripturas Catholicas legunt nec ob aliud haeretici sunt nisi quod eas non rectè intelligentes suas falsas opiniones contra earum veritatem pertinacitâ—â— asserunt Which place translated proueth the contrary For it is this All heretikes read scripture nor are they heretikes for any other cause but that vnderstanding thâ— scriptures amisse they pertinaciously maintaine their erroneous opinions against their truth These words neque enim non omnes haeretici scripturas Catholicas legunt yow translate all Heretikes do not read scriptures against Grammer against sense Against Grammer by the Rules wherof two negations affirme so that non omnes haeretici non legunt is the same as omnes Haeretici legunt all Heretikes read the scriptures Against sense for in this your translation All heretike do not read scriptures nor are they heretikes for any other reason but because they vnderstand them noâ— aright one part of the sentence destroyeth the 〈◊〉 For if all heretikes read not scriptures as yow 〈◊〉 S. Augustine say in the first part then the cause of their heresy is not onely pertinacious misprision 〈◊〉 the sense of scripture as he affirmeth in the 〈◊〉 No doubt if heretikes read not the sacred text 〈◊〉 not only misinterpretation of the sense but also ignorance of the text may be the cause of their 〈◊〉 This same Ignorance in Grammer makes you in this (r) Repl. pag. 35. in margin lit b. your Reply in proofe that Protestantes acknowledge some places obscure in scripture to cite these wordes of your fellow-Minister Paraeus NON nâ—gâ—mus scripturam NIHIL habere obscuritatis Is not 〈◊〉 the playne contrary of what you intend For what is non negamus but we affirme scripturam nihiâ— habere obscuritatis the scripture to be no where obscure To proue that we make scriptures subiect to 〈◊〉 Pope yow cite the Dictates of Gregory the 7. set downe by Baronius containing certaine priuiledges of the Popes authority wherof one is Quòd nullum Capitulum nullusque liber Canonicus habeatur sine authoritate ipsius yow (s) Reply pag. 92. in fine translate thus that no chapter no booke of scripture be esteemed Canonicall without 〈◊〉 authority In which translation you shew both falshood and ignorance Falshood in that yow ad to the text (t) This you haue done not only in this place but also in your Orthodoxe three or foure tymes as in the Epistle dedicatory pag. 10. elswhere in the same letter as part thereof no â—â—â—pter of scripture no booke of scripture those words 〈◊〉 being in the latine text nor in the sense for if it â—â—re granted that the Pope doth here speake of the chapter of bookes it doth not follow that he meanes 〈◊〉 bookes of scripture but rather the bookes of Canon law which lawes in that age (u) Burchardus Isidorus Gratianus diuers did beginne to compile gather togeather into volumes and so he defineth that no Chapters that no bookes of Canon or Church-law be held authenticall without his approbation Ignorance because common sense might haue taught yow that this Decree could not be vnderderstood of Chapters or Bookes The reason is because to put chapter before booke and to say no chapter of booke nor any booke shall be held Canonicall without the Pope is idle and senselesse For if no chapter can be Canonicall without the Pope much lesse a whole booke so that hauing sayd that not so much as a chapter be held Canonicall without the Pope it was senselesse to adde the same of whole bookes This speach is as foolish as this should one say Not any person nor any whole family came to Church or as this He read not one line nor one chapter nor one booke wheras sense would say not one booke not one chapter not one line Thirdly a little skill in latine ioyned with iudgment would haue easely found out the true and coherent sense of this Dictate For Capitulum signifyes not onely a chapter of a booke but also a Chapter-house or colledge of Chanons Liber signifyes noâ— onely a booke but also free and exempt Canonicâ—â— also as euery man knowes signifyes not onely Canonicall but also a Chanon or Prebend So that the Popes priuilege quòd nullum Capitulum nullusqâ—â— liber Canonicus habeatur absque illius authoritate is thus in English that no Chapter-house or Colledge of ChanoÌ„s nor any single Canon or Prebend be free exempt froâ— the authority of the Ordinary but by the Popes authority 〈◊〉 sole authority of Metropolitans or Primates not 〈◊〉 sufficient to make such exemptions As for â—â—okes of scriptures we teach that they all be diuine and canonicall in themselues and for the most part â—â— owne to be such by the perpetuall tradition of the Church some very few excepted that haue been â—anonized vnto vs by generall Councells and not 〈◊〉 by the sole and single authority of the pope Behold how wide off the marke yow shoote through your ignorance of
recom Sacrae scripturae Ergo A Christian is built fundamentally on Scripture I wish that this my Discouery may make you wise vnto your eternall Saluation as is doth lay open your shamefull Ignorance vnto your temporall disgrace for here you are so grossely and togeather vnluckily ignorant as you are fallen into the very same fault in Logicke wherof without cause you charged your Aduersary as peccant to wit of making Syllogismes whereof both propositions were affirmatiue in the second figure An argument is affirmatiue in the second figure when the Meanes of proofe is affirmed in both propositions Your Meanes to prooue that a Christian is fundamentally built on Scripture is this terme Built on the rocke and this is the very thing affirmed in both your propositions In your maior Built on the rocke is affirmed of the Christian The Christian or he that is fundamētally built is built on the rocke In the minor the same is affirmed of him that is built on Scripture The Scripture is the rocke that is he that is built on the Scripture is built on the rocke Hence your conclusion Ergo The Christian or he that is fundamentally built is built on the Scripture is affirmatiue in the second figure How fond inconsequent this forme of arguing is you may feele by this of the same tenour with change of matter He that is borne in Sicily is borne in an Iland He that is borne in England is borne in an Iland Ergo He that is borne in England is borne in Sicily This is a folish Sophisme because concluding affirmatiuely in the second figure so is yours For as it is not consequent if a man be borne in an Iland that he is borne in Sicily because there be other Ilands besides Sicily so this is no good consequence A Christian is built on the Rocke Ergo on the Scripture because Scripture is not the only Rocke the word of God as deliuered by Tradition being a rock and ground of Fayth no lesse sure infallible then Scripture or Gods Word as written Abraham Isaac Iacob Ioseph and innumerable other holy persons were fundamentally built in fayth yet not built on Scripture the word of God not being then extant in writing S. Irenaeus l. 3. c. 4. doth write that in his dayes many Nations were Christian and did diligently obserue the true Christian Religion printed in their harts and yet had not any Scripture nor the word of God as written False then is this negatiue which your argument put into true forme doth imply No man is built fundamentally on the Rocke that is not built on the word of God as written Your third argument (k) Reply pag. 48. The seed of fayth is the roote and foundation of euery Christian But the Scripture is the seed of fayth Ioan. 20.41 for it is the word of God Luc. 8.11 Ioan. 1.18 1. Cor. 4.15 This argument is also an idle fallacy and sophististicall sillogisme for both the propositions thereof are particuler which forme as hath been said is vicious and not lawfull in any figure This you may perceaue by this argument formed punctually according to the shape of yours with chāge of matter The seed of Fayth is the roote and foundation of euery Christian. But the bloud of Martyrs is the seed of Fayth for it is the seed of the Christian Church Ergo The bloud of Martyrs is the roote and foundation of euery Christian. This argument is like yours and both are vaine because the Argument being in the first figure the Maior proposition is particuler which ought to be vniuersall in this sort Euery seed of fayth is the roote of euery Christian The Scripture or word of God as written is the seed of Fayth Ergo. The Scripture or word of God as written is the roote of euery Christian. This argument is in lawfull forme but the maior therof is false for euery seed of Fayth is not the roote of a Christian but only that seed which first breedeth fayth in him and whereon all other seedes depend Now the seed which first breedeth Fayth in Christians is not the word of God as written but the word of God as deliuered by tradition For vpon the credit of Tradition we know the written word and without this ordinarily speaking and without new immediate Reuelation we cannot know the Scripture or written word to be from the Apostles and by them of God Ergo the word of God not as writtē but as deliuered by tradition is that seed of fayth which is the roote of euery Christian. The fourth Argument (l) Reply pag. 48. The Scripture giuen by diuine inspiration is simply and without exception to be receaued and all tradition repugnant to Scripture is to be refused Hence it followes that Scripture is a rule of Tradition and not Tradition of Scripture This argument proceedeth vpon the supposal of an impossibility so is idle sophisticall inept Logitians are taught by their Mayster Aristotle if one impossibility be admitted a thousand other impossibilityes and absurdityes will be thence concuded You suppose in this argument that the word of God as deliuered by full tradition may be repugnant vnto the word of God as written Hence you inferre that Tradition is not simply to be receaued but only so far forth as it agrees with the Scripture Your supposition is blasphemous for the word of God vnwritten cannot be repugnant vnto truth being the words of the Prime VERITY that cannot deceaue nor be deceaued This impossibility supposed your cōsequence is not good Ergo Tradition repugnant to Scripture is to be reiected and Scripture to be held only simply as the rule of Fayth For if Gods vnwritten word could be repugnant vnto the written it would not follow that the vnwritten word were to be reiected and the written simply to be receaued but that neyther the written nor vnwritten were to be credited This is cleere because if God may lye and deceyue vs by his word of liuely voyce deliuered by Tradition why not also in his writings deliuered by Tradition What authority doth writing adde to Gods word that God cannot lye in writing if he may lye in speaking I hope I haue shewed apparently these your Arguments wherein you so much glory to be not only false in respect of matter but also fallacious in respect of forme The same I could shew of allmost all the rest of your Arguments of this your Reply Is not then the case of your ignorant Proselites most deplorable and desperate whome you persuade to trust these your halting consequences rather then the perpetuall Traditions of the Church You will haue them to make themselues Iudges not only of what is contayned expressely in Scripture but also of what is thence deriued by Arguments according to the rules of Logicke wherein if they chance to mistake they erre and are damned The third Example §. 3. A Third Example of Logicall Ignorance is your heaping togeather of many fond
to wit to be True to be Reuealed of God to be Preached and deliuered of the Apostles The highest ground by which I am perswaded that my fayth is true is the authority of God reuealing it The highest ground on which I am resolued that my Fayth is reuealed is the credit and authority of Christ Iesus his Apostles who deliuered the same as Diuine and Sacred But the highest ground that moueth me to belieue that my fayth was (c) The Mynister and especially the Bishops Chaplin pag. 16. 17. charge the Answerer to resolue fayth of the Scriptures being the word of God into only Tradition This is a slaūder for he doth distinguish expresly in scripture the being preached by the Apostles from the being reuealed of God or his word This second property is spirituall and hidden and belieued not vpon Tradition from the Apostles directly but vpon the word of the Apostles so affirming confirmed with the testimony of miracles wrought by the Holy GHOST but to be preached and planted in the world was a publike sensible thing so is knowne by Tradition hand to hād from the Apostles Thus the Church as belieuing her doctrine to be true is built vpon God as belieuing her doctrine to be of God is built on the Apostles as belieuing her doctrine to be the Apostles is built on the Tradition of Pastours succeeding them The ground and pillar of Truth by office as our Minister graunts pag. 9. lin 5. preached by the Apostles is the perpetual tradition of the Church succeding the Apostles that so teacheth me Into this principle (d) Aug. cont epist. Fund cap. 5. Saint Augustine resolued his fayth agaynst the Manichees who pretended that the Scriptures of the new Testament had been corrupted confuting them by the Tradition of the Church affirming That he would not belieue the Ghospell did not the Authority of the Catholike Church induce him assigning this as the last stay of his resolution in this point For though he belieued the Gospell to be soueraignely certaine and true vpon the authority of God reuealing it and that it was reuealed of God vpon the authority of the Apostles who as Sacred preached it yet that this Ghospell as we haue it came incorrupt from the Apostles he could haue no stronger or more (e) The Minister forced by this testimony graūteth two things which ouerthrow his cause first pa. 22. l. 13.14 that Nouices and simple persons ground their fayth on the authority of the Church as also Field graunteth appendix part 1. pag. 11. now I assume But the fayth of Nouices is sauing fayth as S. Aug. there sayth contra Epist. Fundamenti c. 2. and cōsequently their fayth is diuine Ergo sauing supernaturall fayth is grounded on the authority of the Church Secondly he graunts pag. 23. lin 2. 3. that The Church as including the Apostles can proue the Scripture whence it is cōsequent that the Scriptures are not principles knowne by themselues but haue another higher diuine principle by which they are proued The Church comprehending the Apostles being as Protestāts grāt Field l. 4. of Church c. 21. of greater authority then Scripture excellent proofe then the testimony of the present Church descending by the cōtinuall succession of Bishops from the Apostles Neyther can we imagine an higher except we fly to particular priuate reuelation which is absurd The second Argument SECONDLY I proue that common vnlearned people the greatest part of Christianity are persuaded about all substantiall points of fayth by Tradition not by Scripture Common vnlearned people haue true Christian fayth in all points necessary and sufficient vnto saluation but they haue not fayth of all these mayne and substantiall points grounded on Scripture for they can neyther vnderstand nor read any Scripture but translated into vulgar languages so if they belieue vpon Scrpture they belieue vpon Scripture translated into their Mother tongue but before that they can know that the Scriptures are truly translated euen in all substantiall points that so they may build on it they must first know what are the mayne and substantiall points (f) To this proofe that Christians belieue their Creed more firmely then any translation the Minister hath not answered one word nor can answere for it is conuincing as appeares by this syllogisme Perswasion more certayne and firme cannot be grounded on perswasion lesse firme and certayne Such as are true Christians belieue the articles of their Creed more firmely then they do that Scriptures are truly translated into their vulgar tongue Ergo True Christians do not build their Fayth of the Creed on Scripture translated but on doctrine knowne to be the Apostles formerly and more firmely then that Scripture is truly translated firmely belieue them so that they would not belieue the Scriptures translated agaynst them For if they know them not before how can they know that Scriptures in places that concerne them are truly translated If they doe not before hand firmely belieue them why should they be ready to allow translations that agree with them and to reiect the translations that differ from thē Ergo (g) The Minister pag. 26. sayth That Ignorant men resolue their faith into Scripture yet not into Scripture so distinctly knowne as they can tel the names of the seuerall Bookes Authours and Sections and so they resolue implicitly not explicitly This is idle For if they know the doctrine of the Scripture because it is written though they know not the name of the booke nor number of the Chapter Verse nor the formall text what groūd firmer thē their Creed haue they this to belieue originally before they know any Scripture they haue fayth grounded on the Traditiōs of Ancestors by the light wherof they are able to iudge of the truth of Translations about such substantiall points as they firmely belieue by Traditiō And this is that which Protestants must meane if they haue any true meaning when they say that the common People know Scriptures to be truly translated by the (h) The Minister is forced to fly to a found paradoxe confuted already That vnlearned Rusticks know the Scripture to be Gods word by the matter and forme of the bookes and by seing the resplendent verity of the doctrine pag. 28. lin 3. He addeth lin 7. That they which actually resolue their fayth into the doctrine of Scriptur do virtually mediatly resolue the same into the very Scripture though they know not that it is written in Scripture This is friuolous and false For the Pagan and Infidells that know hony to be sweet and taken in abundance to be hurtfull should virtually resolue their persuasion into the very Scripture because they actually belieue a thing affirmed in Scripture Prou. 25. 27. Yea the Iew belieuing that Christ was crucified belieues a doctrine of Scripture doth he therefore resolue and build virtually vpon Scripture No. That one build on Scripture it is not
Iesuite to say that men not belieuing forehand all necessary points of fayth cannot haue any certaine vnderstanding of Scripture This is a slauÌ„der He onely sayth that such ignorants and wanters of beliefe cannot vnderstand aright Scriptures in all necessary points but they will erre in some chiefe article or other though they may happily vnderstand something aright For there was neuer Heretike that did erre in all necessary points But it is inough to damnation to erre in one substantiall pointe therefore we must not presume to reade interpret Scriptures till we be well grounded in them by the Tradition of the Church caÌ„not with assurance vnderstand them but may euen in maynest poynts mightely mistake for the blessed Apostles wryting to Christians that were beforehand fully taught and setled in substantiall Christian Doctrines and customes doe ordinarily in their writings suppose such things as abuÌ„dantly knowen without declaring them anew onely touching them (t) Thus S. Peter act 9.3 4. repreheÌ„ding Ananias for the breach of his Vow doth by the way teach the holy Ghosts Diuinity Why hath Satan filled thy hart to lye to the holy Ghost Thou hast not lyed vnto men but vnto God For what is spoken directly and of purpose in Scripture is no more infallible truth then what is spokeÌ„ but cursorily by the way Wherfor the former speach of S. Peter doth assure vs that the holy Ghost is God as much as that it is a sinne to breake a vow and yet that is spoken by the way and this of purpose Whence you may see the Ministers great weakenes of IudgemeÌ„t who holding that some points of fayth are coÌ„tained in Scripture only consequently pag. 32. lin 3. raileth at the Iesuite for saying that some thinges are sayd in Scripture cursorily and by the way For to be written cursorily and by the way which the Iesuite giues vnto Scripture is more then to be onely virtually and consequently written cursorily by the way and therfore obscurely so that they who are already taught might well vnderstand their sayings and no other Concerning the sufficiency and clarity of Scripture §. 2. HENCE I may further inferre that Protestants haue not yet throughly pondered the place of the Apostles to Timothy which they so vehemently vrge to proue the all-sufficiency of sole Scripture for euery man as though the Apostles had sayd absolutely that the Scriptures are able to instructe or make any man wise vnto saluation which he sayes not but speaking particularly (u) 2. Tim. 3.14.15.16.17 vnto Timothy sayth They are able to instructe or make Thee wise vnto saluation Thee (x) The Minister here laboureth impertinenly to proue that speaches vnto one single person may be generall vnto many other in Scripture which no man denies And so this speach They are able to make Thee wise is generall vnto all persons that are like to Timothy that is instructed aforehand and setled in the fayth of Tradition For what is sayd vnto one single person is not sayd vnto others further theÌ„ they agree with that party in the cause for which it is truly sayd of him What God sayd vnto Abraham Gen. 15.12 I am thy Protectour is not sayd to all men but only to all meÌ„ that were like Abraham that is deuout worshipers of the true God as he was that hast bene aforehand instructed by word of mouth doest thervpon firmely belieue all substantiall doctrines and knowest all the necessary practises of the Christian discipline Verily the Apostle in that place speaketh onely of the Scriptures of the Old Testament affirming them not sufficient for euery man but for Timothy and not sufficient for him by themselues alone but per fidem quae est in Christo Iesu that is ioyned with the doctrine of the Christian fayth which Tymothy had heard and belieued vpon the liuely voyce of Tradition And the consequent words of the Apostle so much insisted vpon All Scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach c. If Protestants could so (y) The Minister heere heapeth many speaches of Fathers that say the Scriptures are sufficient to proue that Profitable signifyes the same that Sufficient This is ridiculous The Iesuit grants the Scripture to be sufficient for them that know Tradition yet he will still deny that profitable signifyes the same as sufficient How Catholicks grant the same sufficiency to be in Scripture as Protestants and the true state of the Question about sufficiency of Scripture and of Tradition THE Minister here enters into a longe impertinent discourse about the clarity sufficiency of Scripture setting titles ouer the heads of his pages Many Scriptures playne the Scriptures sufficient c. as who would say the Answerer had denied this To discouer these his false insinuatioÌ„s and to cleere this controuersy most important we must know 5. things First that there was once a controuersy betwixt Protestants and vs about the sufficieÌ„cy clarity of Scripture For in their beginning they taught all matter of fayth to be EXPRESSED in Scripture and nothing inuolued Omnia expressa nihil inuolutum De tota Scriptura dico nullam eius partem obscuram esse So Luther de â—erâ—to Arbitrio in Tom. 2. Wittenberg Nothing is to be belieued without the word of God though it seeme deduced by good consequence Luther in locis coÌ„mun 1. part c. 24. pag. 69. Secondly now Protestants euen our Minister pag. 32 lin 2. and often in this reply disclaime from expresse and formall Scripture and pretend that all things are written eyther formally or virtually and so confesse that there is herin no difference betwixt the most learned Papists and them So saith Field Church l. 4. c. 20. pag. 241. lin 6. Thirdly when some Catholicks as Dominicus Bannes so many tymes cited by the Minister pag 151. Marg lit f. pag 109. lin 40. pag. 189. marg lit b. pag. 580. marg lit a. say that some points be neither expressely nor inuoluedly in Scripture they do not meane that they are not virtually inuolued in thinges contayned in Scripture as effects in their cause so are deduceable from Scripture but only that they are not formally inuolued in thinges of Scripture as parts in their whole in sort as they can be articles of fayth by sole Scripture For thinges formally inuolued in Scripture as parts in the whole a soule and body in man indiuidualls in the whole masse of their kind be articles of fayth by vertue of Scripture Thus when the Scripture â—aith Iob was a man it is said inuoluedly yet formally that he had soule body c. when the Scripture sayth Libanus hath Cedar trees it sayth not formally but virtually it hath imputrible wood Fourthly the question now resting between Protestants and vs is not whether the Scripture be virtually intricate and inuolued about some points of fayth nor whether some rule of interpretatioÌ„ be necessary for that the Scripture is inuolued and needeth an vnfolding rule
can cleerly demonstrate the conâ—â—ary And if they desire to know then they know the particulars â—or what our Minister sayth pag. 319. lin 20. That a father in Lonâ—â—n may be solicitous about his sonnes safety that is at Constantinople and yet not â—â—ow the particulars is friuolous for this London Father is not blessed 〈◊〉 he may be desirous to know particulars and not know them and so be â—erplexed for want of his knowledge The Saints in heauen are blessed â—nd so desire not to know any thing but they know it Therfore seing â—ccording to the instinct and inclination of solicitous Charity they cannot â—ut desire the knowledge of their friends affaires they must if they are â—erfectly blessed be satisfied in this their charitable desire to know such things as may concerne their honour done vpon earth the state of their freinds â—ouers liuing in danger to succour them by their intercessions of whose saluation they be still sollicitous though secure of their own as S. Cyprian writes Wherefore our doctrine that Saints see our prayers being deliuered so constantly by the Ancient Fathers so conformable vnto the principles of Christian beliefe about the blessednes of Saints so consonaÌ„t vnto expresse passages of Scripture we may iustly expect that vnto Protestants it would not be displeasing did they looke on it with vnpartiall eyes Specially they hauing no Text of Scripture that may make so much as a shew of direct opposition agaynst it The place continually obiected out of the Prophet Esay 63.16 Abraham knew vs not (f) This place is impertinent also in regard that Abraham and Iacob were not theÌ„ Blessed nor saw God from which Blessed vision the knowlege of things done in this world floweth as a sequell in the triumphant Saints It is vnderstood by S. Hierome in c. 63. Isa. de scientia approbationis that Abraham Iacob did not know that is esteeme and approoue the proceeding of their children the Iewes Israel was ignorant of vs thou O Lord art our Father thou our Redeemer hath this sense Abraham and Iacob when they liued vpon earth and carnally begot children did not know particularly their posterities and so could not beare them such particular affection whereas God can doth distinctly see and know their necessityes aforehand yea before men are borne and prouides agaynst them deliuering his children out of theÌ„ And therfore he is the only Father the only Redeemer Abraham and Iacob not deseruing the name of Father in comparison with God Makes this against the Saints hearing our prayers (g) I desire the Reader to note on the one side how Protestants boast of Scriptures on the other how vnable they are to bring one probable text agaynst Inuocation of Saints Whereas contrarywise the places for the Catholicke doctrine that Saints 〈◊〉 our prayers are so cleere as ProtestaÌ„ts fly to their types and tropes leauing the literall sense without warrant from the sayd Scripture and so by casting a figure euade froÌ„ Gods cleere word Wherfore the cause they appeale vnto Scriptur is not because they thinke the Scripture is cleere for them not much cleerer for vs But because by Scripture they cannot be so cleerly confounded as by Tradition For about Scripture Heretiks euer wrangle pretending that by deductions and inferences they prooue their doctrine being destitute of formall Scripture wherof ignoraÌ„t people caÌ„not iudge For what know they when deductions are good But when they were vrged by Tradition to shew the Pedegree of their Professours they were as dumbe as ours now are that the Fathers said vnto them Confingant tale aliquod let theÌ„ if they can feigne and deuise a pedegree of professours agreeing in the same forme of Faith wherof the first was an Apostle and the last a Protestant The worship in Spirit and Truth with outward prostration of the body due vnto Saints §. 3. THE third cause of their dislike is that we giue the honour of the Creatour vnto the Creature honoring Saints with Religious worship in spirit truth euen to the prostrating of our bodyes before them whereby we giue them honour due to God only and bring in many Gods as the Heathens did To this Obiection made long agoe by Faustus the Manichee S. Augustine lib. 20. cont Faust. c. 22. answereth in these words The Christian people doth celebrate with Religious solemnity the memoryes of Martyrs to the end to stirre vp themselues to their imitatioÌ„ that they may be assisted with their prayers and associated vnto their merits c. But with the worship tearmed in Greeke Latria and which the Latine language cannot expresse in one word being a certayne subiection seruitude due properly to the Deity only we do not honour any but only God nor thinke that this honour ought to be giuen but only to him These words of S. Augustine shew that worship of Saints to be on the one side more then Ciuil and on the other side lesse then diuine more then ciuill as proceeding out of acknowledgement of the excellency Saints haue superiour vnto all naturall by which they be partakers of diuine perfection in that high degree as no substance can by nature participate thereof and therefore S. Augustine with good reason tearmes it religious (h) The Minister pag. 312. contrary to his custome proposeth this argument truly To euery kind of excelleÌ„cy there is a worship due proportionall to that excellency but the blessed Saints and Angells haue a speciall kind of excellency which is supernatural superhumane more then ciuill Therefore speciall honour proportionall to the excellency and superior vnto humane and ciuill is due vnto them To this argument he answereth That in Saints there is dignity of grace and glory and honour is due in respect of the same but not religious worship Thus he what is this but to trifle talke in the ayre who doubts M. White but there is the dignity of grace and glory in Saints and honour due vnto it Speake plainly and mutter not betwixt the teeth Is the honour due to Saints proportionall to their excellency that is more then ciuill Is it superhumane supernaturall as their excellency is Is it superiour vnto that kind of honour which is due vnto ciuill magistrates and other human honourable personages in regard of meere naturall perfectioÌ„ If you grant that worship superhumane and more then ciuill is due vnto Saints you grant as much as we desire to proue The tearme of Religious worship is ambiguous Sometimes religious worship is taken for that which is an elicitiue formall act of Religion of diuine worship due vnto the increated excellency of the Creatour In this sense the worship of Saints is not religious At other tymes it is taken for worship which is an imperatiue act of Religion that is worship done to Saints out of inward Religion and deuotion towards God whose seruants and friends they are In this sense the worship of Saints is Religious
say his sufferings as examples were perfect and full yet were supplyed by Saint Paul why may not the same sufferings as satisfactions be supplyed by S. Paul without being imperfect For Saint Paul is sayd to supply the sufferings of Christ as satisfactory not because they were not of infinit value but because God will haue the satisfactions of his seruants to be ioyned with Christs that Christs may haue their full effect euen to the cancelling of the debt of temporall payne Minister pag. 564. The indulgences Tertullian opposed were the same whereof S. Cyprian speaketh Epist. 10.11.12 to wit relaxation of Canonicall censures and pennances to notorious sinners at the request of martyrs liuing in prison Answere It is true Tertullian being an Heretike opposed such indulgences as S. Cyprian doth mention as allowed in the Catholike Church But that these indulgences were only relaxations of Canonicall pennances censures you say but shew not yea that the pennances released were required in foro conscientiae to satisfy Gods anger appeareth by S. Cyprian his words in that tenth Epistle by you mentioned Deo patri misericordi satisfacere pro delictis suis poenitentiam agentes possunt And that penitents to make this full satisfaction vnto God and so obtayne pardon were holpen by the suffrages of Martyrs the same Saint Cyprian doth affirme Epist. 13. They who haue receaued bills from the Martyrs to be released of their Pennance may by the PREROGATIVE OF MARTYRS BE HOLPEN WITH GOD. And Epist. 14. They who bring the Bills from the Martyrs may by THEIR HELP BE AYDED IN THEIR SINNES This Catholike practise of pardoning vnto Penitents the reserued temporall penalty by the application of Martyrs suffrages satisfactions to haue byn impugned by Tertullian in his heresy is manifest by his making the Penitent in an heretical humour to say to the Martyr who applyed his satisfaction for his pardon If thou be a sinner thou needest satisfaction and pardon thy selfe How then can thine oyle of satisfaction be sufficient both for thee and me Also the Martyrs that sued for pardon to be giuen to the penitents he accuseth of Prodigality therin which is a signe that Martyrs bestowed something that was their owne vpon penitents that they by vertue thereof might be pardoned which cannot be any thing besides their own sufferings according as they were satisfactory for sinne Minister pag. 565. The aduersary is so farre from being able to proue Popes pardons in Tertullians dayes That he caÌ„not proue they had any being in the dayes of Peter Lombard or Hugo Victor Answere Still you shew your selfe to be a bold affirmer about things you know not For what more euideÌ„t falshood then this you vent That Indulgences had not any being in the dayes of Peter Lombard The Waldensian Sect was in being in the dayes of Peter Lombard as doth witnesse Illyricus in catalog Test. colum 1498. and they as the same Illyricus doth record ibid. colum 1501. 1511. contemned and derided the indulgences of the Church which they would not haue done but that they saw the same had some being and vse then in the Church Pope Paschall the 2. some yeares before Peter Lombard graunted the Indulgences of 40. dayes to all that were present at the Lateran Generall Councell kept in his tyme as writeth Vrspergens Chron. an 1106. Vrban the second in the yeare 1096. before Peter Lombard was borne in the Generall Councell of Cleremont in France graunted a Plenary Indulgence vnto al that should go to fight for the recouery of the Holy Land yea Leo the third almost foure hundred yeares before Peter Lombard to wit eight hundred yeares agoe as writes S. Lutgerus in vita Sancti Switberti c. 9. did at the request of Charles the Great dedicate the temple of our Blessed Lady of Aquisgraâ—e donans eam multis indulgentijs bestowing many Indulgences vpon it Moreouer The Pope sayth he in France consecrated many Churches euery where graunting many indulgences And agayne The Pope graunted speciall Indulgences vnto the sayd Church for all the faythfull that should keep the feast of Saint Switbert and come on his day to heare diuine seruice Behold how frequent and ordinary a thing it was eight hundred yeares agoe for the Pope to giue out Indulgences which you say had not any being in the dayes of Peter Lombard Not only S. Thomas many Catholikes write that Saint Gregory the Great before the yeare six hundred graunted Indulgences but also Protestants as Fryar Bale Act. Rom. Pontif. printed at Basil Anno 1558. Gregory sayth he did confirme the deuotion of people in visiting images by granting them indulgences And agayne He was the first Pope that did grant Indulgences vnto theÌ„ that should vpon certayne dayes visit Churches And though we cannot directly proue that such generall Indulgences for all the faithfull were vsed before Saint Gregory yet it is not probable that holy Pope would vse it without the example of his predecessors yea had this practise been then nouell the same would haue been noted But whensoeuer the vse of such Indulgences began certayne it is that Personall Indulgences graunted vnto particular persons vpon particular examination of their cause were euer in vse since the Apostles tyme as doth appeare by the former testimony of S. Cyprian Tertullian Minister pag. 566. The holy Scripture teacheth expressely that all spirituall redemption is immediatly wrought by the bloud of Christ who purged sinne by himselfe Hebr. 1.3 But our Aduersaryes restrayne this and the like place to the stayne and eternall guilt of sin saying that the guilt of temporall payne is redeemed by Christ only mediatly by the satisfaction of Saynts Which is agaynst the Apostle Coloss. 2.12 affirming that Christ blotted out the handwriting of decrees contayned in the Law that was agaynst vs and that by himselfe but the temporary punishment is contayned within the latitude of the law Leuit. 26.14 Answere You do not vnderstand the Doctrine of your Aduersaryes or else wittingly misrelate the same For Catholikes distinguish the merit of Christs redemption and the conditions by meanes of which the same is applyed vnto particular persons All spirituall guifts of this life of the future all remissions of sinne eyther mortall or veniall all releasement of punishment eyther eternall or temporall is wrought by way of redemption immediatly only by the bloud Passion of our Sauiour But the condition which God requireth that the same be applyed vnto particular persons is not only the suffering of Christ nor is the same kind of condition required in respect of euery grace Some be giuen vpon condition of meere mercy some not otherwise then according to mens works The guift of iustifying grace is applyed vnto men by the vertue of Sacramtts through Gods only mercy the sinner by fayth pennance and contrition disposing his soule for the reception thereof But the grace and guift of eternall life purchased by Christ his bloud is not applyed