is proved from the grounds already layd For this Jurisdiction of theirs above Presbyters did not belong unto them by Divine Right we having proved that the Scripture makes a Bishop and a Presbyter to be both one And therefore the Parliament that by Law gave them their power might seeing just cause for it by Law take it away They had also just reason for to take it away in regard of the oppressiveness and burthensomness of it both to Ministers and People to this whole Church and Nation as hath been proved before And therefore what they herein did was justly yea piously and prudently done and for which the Church of God in this Land both Ministers and People do for the present and will for the future see great cause to bless God for many Generations And that they had the concurrence herein of a reverend and learned Assembly of Divines is clear from their Exhortation annexed to the Ordinance of Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament with Instructions for taking the League and Covenant in the Kingdome of England and Dominion of Wales In this Exhortation of the Assembly of Divines in answer to some Objections they apprehended might be made against the taking of the Covenant they thus express themselves If it be sayd for the extirpation of Prelacy to wit the whole Hierarchiall Government standing as yet by the known Laws of the Kingdome is new and unwarrantable This will appear to all impartiall understandings though new to be not onely warrantable but necessary if they consider to omit what some say that this Government was never formally established by any Laws of this Kingdome at all that the very life and soul thereof is already taken from it by an Act passed this present Parliament so as like Jezabels Carkass of which no more was left but the Skull the Feet and the Palmes of her hands nothing of Jurisdiction remains but what is precarious in them and voluntary in those who submit unto them That their whole Government is at best but a humane Constitution and such as is found and adjudged by both Houses of Parliament in which the Judgment of the whole Kingdome is involved and declared not onely very perjudicial to the civil State but a great hinderance also to the perfect reformation of Religion Yea who knoweth it not to be too much an Enemy thereunto and destructive to the power of Godliness and pure administration of the Ordinances of Christ which moved the well-affected almost throughout this Kingdome long since to petition this Parliament as hath been desired before in the reign of Queen Elizabeth and King James for a total abolition of the same And then a little after And as for these Clergy-men who pretend that they above all other cannot covenant to extirpate that Government because they have as they say taken a solemn Oath to obey the Bishops in licitis honestis they can tell if they please that they that have sworne Obedience to the Laws of the Land are not thereby prohibited from endeavouring by all lawfull means the abolition of those Laws when they prove inconvenient or mischievous And yet if there should any Oath be found into which any Ministers or others have entred not warranted by the Laws of God and the Land in this case they must teach themselves and others that such Oathes call for repentance not pertinacy in them Thus far the Assembly of Divines in their Exhortation for the taking the solemne League and Covenant and which we have thought requisite to transcribe that so it may appear how fully they concurred with the Parliament in what they did touching the abolition of Episcopacy as it doth also confirme by their Testimony severall things that have been mentioned by us wherein the Reader may perceive their concurrence in Judgment with us From all which it is clear that seeing Diocesan Bishops did but obtaine that Jurisdiction they exercised over Presbyters by the Law of the Land and Canon of the Church The Parliament finding this Government of Episcopacy to be very oppressive to this Church A great hinderance to the perfect Reformation of Religion and prejudiciall to the civill State they might both lawsully and laudably being therein also backed with the advice of a reverend and learned Synod take it away And hence it will follow that if the Ministers of this Land for severing themselves from the Bishops and with-drawing their Canonicall Obedience from them as some speake the Parliament according to the reverend Synod having before taken away from them all that Jurisdiction over Presbyters that did belong unto them must needs be accused of Schisme It is a good Schisme yea a blessed Schisme to use the words that Gerhard did defending the Protestants with-drawing from the Pope and the Church of Rome that they will be found to be guilty of The blot whereof as it is not to be much regarded so it is easily wiped off and as we think it is already done in the Eyes of all impartiall and unbyassed Readers by these Considerations which we have layd down We have onely one thing more to add which is the third generall Head we offer to the Reader here before we leave this first Argument with which you would perswade us to returne againe to our former Yoke of Bondag 3. For we offer it to the consideration of all impartiall men whether considering what hath been spoken touching the nature of Schisme in the generall and how lawfully and laudably the Parliament did abolish Episcopacy and how they passed by Ordinance the forme of Church-Government Anno 1648. establishing the Presbyterian in roome of the Episcopall and that how it was set up in this County by their Authority If they but observe what your actings have been and what your expressions are in your Papers they will not thereupon see just cause to impute Schisme taken in the worst part and as it is taken most usually unto you who have been so forward though without reason to fasten this blot upon us But we are sure during the prevalency of Episcopacy those that were not guilty of any such disturbance of the peace of the Church by any such boisterous Ventings of the Distempers of their Spirits as you are were counted and called by the Prelates Schismaticks And from which Aspersion though sundry of those being peaceable and godly however Non-conformists were free yet you being very unlike them are not thereby quit But we have now done with the first of those Arguments we promised to speak to particularly whereby you would perswade us to admit againe of Episcopacy and hope we have sayd to it that which is sufficient 2. We therefore now come to the second wherein you still rise higher for therein you insinuate a thing of a farre greater and more dangerous consequence if Episcopacy be not restored For you intimate that it is necessary That the Church of God may be continued amongst us from Age to Age to the
THE CENSURES of the CHURCH REVIVED In the defence of a short Paper published by the first Classis within the Province of Lancaster in the severall Congregations belonging to their own Association but since Printed without their privity or consent after it had been assaulted by some Gentlemen and others within their bounds in certain Papers presented by them unto the said Classis and since also Printed together with an Answer of that Classis unto the first of their Papers without their knowledg also and consent under the Title of Excommunicatio excommunicata or a Censure of the Presbyterian censures and proceedings in the Classis at Manchester WHEREIN 1. The dangerousness of admitting moderate Episcopacy is shewed 2. The Jus divinum of the Ruling Elders Office is asserted and cleared 3. The aspersions of Schisme and Perjury are wiped off from those that disown Episcopacy 4. The being of a Church and lawfully Ordained Ministry are evidenced and secured sufficiently in the want of Episcopacy 5. The Scriptures asserted and proved to be the sole supreame Judge of all controversies in matters of Religion and the only sure interpreter of themselves not Councils or Fathers or the universall practice of the Primitive Churches 6. The Presbyterian Government vindicated from severall aspersions cast upon it and also the first Classis within the Province of Lancaster and their actings justified in their making out their claime to the civill sanction for the establishment of that Church Government and power which they exercise and likewise a cleare manifestation that their proceedings have been regular and orderly according to the forme of Church Government established by Ordinance of Parliament In three full Answers given to any thing objected against their proceedings by the aforesaid Gentlemen and others in any of their Papers Together with a full Narrative of the occasion and grounds of publishing in the Congregations the above mentioned short Paper and of the whole proceedings since from first to last LONDON Printed for George Eversden at the Signe of the Maiden-head in Pauls Church-yard 1659. TO THE Reverend and Beloved the Ministers and Elders meeting in the Provinciall Assembly of the Province of London the Ministers and Elders of the first Classis of the Province of Lancaster meeting at Manchester do heartily wish the Crown of perseverance in a judicious and zealous defence of the Doctrine Government and Discipline of the Lord Jesus both theirs and ours Reverend and beloved Brethren WHen the Sun of Righteousnes had first favourably risen to them that fear the Name of God in this Land after a dark and stormy night of corruption and persecution then even then were the quickning beams of the sun of civil Authority in this inferionr world caused first to light upon you to form your renowned City into severall Classes and afterwards into a Provinciall Assembly not onely that you might have the birth-right of Honour which we cheerfully remember but also that being invested with Authority from Jesus Christ and the civill Magistrate you might be prepared to stand in the front of opposition the powers of Hell being startled and enraged at the unexpected reviving of Gospel Government and Discipline which seemed so long to lye for dead and that having your strength united you might be enabled and encouraged to plead the cause of God against the Divine right of Episcopacy and for the Divine right of the Ruling-Elder that the one might not be shut out of the Church and the other might not recover in the Church both which have been and still are under design VVhat you have already done this way as a thankfull improvement of Divine favour and with speciall reference to the respective Classes and Congregations within your Province doth evidently appear in your Vindication of Presbyterian Government and your Jus Divinum Ministerii Evangelici which choice fruits of your Provinciall Assembly are not onely refreshing and satisfying for the present but do promise fair for time to come such clusters do shew there is a blessing in the Vine which the Lord of the Vineyard continue and increase When you our Reverend Brethren had first been shined upon and made so fruitfull the Divine grace caused a second enlivening beam of civill Authority to fall upon this remote and despised County to constitute in it also severall Classes and afterwards a Provinciall Assembly since which time such heavenly influence hath been stayed As our Lot hath happily fallen to follow you in the favour of God and civill Authority so we have unhappily fallen into your Lot especially this Classis to be followed with the anger opposition reproaches and contradiction of men of contrary mindes which though hid in the ashes in great measure formerly and but sparkling now and then here and there in a private house or Congregation yet when we would conscientiously and tenderly have improved the Government for the instruction of the ignorant and reformation of the prophane it brake out into a flame and no way but that flame must be hasted to such a Beacon that it might not be quenched till the Nation had seen and taken notice especially the whole opposite party awakened a very design You have pleaded the civil Authority for your acting in the Government but have setled the Government it self for the satisfaction of your own consciences and the consciences of the people of God upon the firm basis of divine Scripture authority and so have we thence you have been authorized to bring into the Church and keep in it by the mercifull intervention of civill Authority the despised governing Elders and so shut out of the Church and keep out of it that Lordly and self-murthering Episcopacy and so have we You have been forced to flie to the testimony of your consciences concerning your aims and ends in your publick undertakings in the cause of God and so have we It was scarce possible for you to wipe off the dirt cast upon you but some of it would unavoidably fall upon them that cast it nor can we Vpon these and other considerations we knew not in what Name of right to publish our enforced Vindication in the same common cause but in your Name who have gone before us in the work and have afforded us light and encouragement whose seasonable and solid Labours have already found acceptance in the Church and blessing from God And we pray that your Bow may abide in strength and the armes of your hands may be made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob that though the Archers have sorely grieved you and shot at you and hated you yet you may still possess the rich blessing of truth in Doctrine Government and Discipline and may foyl the adversaries thereof till the renewed and enlarged favour of God hath overspread this Nation with the Reformation so happily begun and till that so much desired prayed for and endeavoured accommodation of dissenting Brethren alas alas too hardly attained may sincerely
cause the Name and Truth of God to be blasphemed cannot stand with the power of godlinesse and such practises as in their own nature manifestly subvert that order unity and Peace which Christ hath established in his Church and particularly all those scandalous sins for which any Person is to be suspended from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper obstinately persisted in these being publiquely known to the just scandal of the Church The sentence of Excommunication may and ought to proceed according to the directions after following But the Persons that hold other Errours in Judgement about which learned and Godly men possibly may and do differ and which subvert not the faith nor are destructive to godliness or that be guilty of such sins of infirmity as are commonly found in the Children of God or being otherwise sound in the faith and holy in life and so not falling under censure by the former rules endeavour to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace and do yet out of conscience not come up to the observation of all those rules which are or shall be established by Authority for regulating the outward worship of God and Government of his Church The sentence of excommunication for these causes shall not be denounced against them These things this Classis taking into consideration together with the power they were betrusted with by God and Man for the dispensing the censures of the Church in the cases censurable by the rules here laid down and elsewhere in the form of Church Government And there having been in the Provinciall Assembly several debates touching such Persons as in the several Congregations were ignorant and scandalous who offered not themselves to the Sacrament nor to the Eldership in order to their admission to it and they commending it to the several Classical Presbyteries to be considered of whether some further course was not to be held for the information of the one and the reformation of the other then yet had been taken notwithstanding their neglect and what they judged fittest to be done for the attaining those ends and to represent their thoughts therein to the next Assembly This Classis upon the whole concluded to represent their apprehensions in the Case as is expressed in the Paper that was published which was approved of before by the Provincial Assembly and which they judge is sufficiently awarranted in regard of any thing therein contained by the rules expressed in the above-mentioned form of Church Government We having thus far shewed what we have been and are awarranted to practice by the several Ordinances above mentioned shall now proceed further to declare That however we are no Lawyers and therefore leave the determination of the Case to the learned in the Law to judge of to whom it belongs yet if it may be lawful for us to judge of a matter of this nature from the principles of reason It seems to us that the above mentioned Ordinances about Church Government as well as other Ordinances of Parliament are confirmed in the humble Advice assented unto by his Highnesse in the 16. section thereof where we finde these Words And that nothing contained in this Petition and Advice nor your Highnesse consent rhereunto shall be construed to extend to the repealing or making void of any Act or Ordinance which is not contrary hereunto or to the matters herein contained But that the said Acts and Ordinances not contrary hereunto shall continue and remain in force in such manner as if this present Petition and Advice had not at all been had or made or your Highnesse consent thereunto given Whence we gather that if in the several Ordinances for Church Government there be nothing contrary to the humble Advice or to the matters therein contained they are not thereby any more then any other Acts or Ordinances of Parliament repealed but left to remain in force At least there seems to us to be a plain intimation that they have a force in them which is not by this humble Advice repealed and made void For it doth not appear to us That there is any thing in the form of Church Government or any other Ordinances of Parliament about that matter that is contrary to the humble Advice or matters therein contained And whereas in the eleventh section there is mention made of some that differ in worship and discipline from the publique profession of these Nations held forth to whom some indulgence is granted It seems to us there is an acknowledgement and owning of what the late Parliament held forth in regard of these by the Directory for worship and form of Church Government which they passed as the publique profession of these Nations in regard of worship and discipline And in these apprehensions we are the more confirmed because here in this section mention is made of a confession of faith to be agreed on by his Highnesse and the Parliament there having nothing in that kind passed the late Parliament that established the Directory for worship and form of Church Government However there had been a Confession of faith drawn up by the late Assembly of Divines Whence it seemes to us clear that they own the Directory for worship and the form of Church Government to be that which they hold forth as the publique profession of the Nation for worship and Government To the same purpose we finde in the Government of the Common-wealth of England Scotland and Ireland c. As it was publiquely declared at Westminster Decemb. 16 1653. pag. 43. Sect. 37. Where also they expresse a worship and Discipline publiquely held forth which must needs referre to the Directory and form of Church Government by us recited There being no other worship or discipline that then had or now hath the civil Sanction in this Nation We have been large in what we have here represented in the general before we come to speak more particularly to the rest that now follows in your paper But our pains being the greater to make this full representation unto you then it will be for you to read it we must intreat you to excuse us considering it tends as well to rectifie your mistakes as to vindicate our selves being also desirous not to be mistaken any more as also because it layes a foundation for our briefer and more particular Answer unto what follows and to which these â—hings being thus premised we now come SECT V. IN the things wherein you professe your selves to dissent till further explicated and unfolded by us 1 The first thing we meet with here is That by the many Persons of all sorts that are members of Congregations and mentioned in our Paper in your sense thereof we seem to hint that thereby we mean onely such who have admitted themselves members of some Congregation within your association and yet live inordinately c. And that therefore you who never were any members or associates of ours are not within the verge and compasse
therefore you and all men may discern that when you say speaking of the humble Advice that in the eleventh Section all Ministers throughout the Land and their Assemblies professing the true Protestant Religion though of different judgments in worship and discipline are all of them equally protected in the liberty of their profession that proposition is a great deal larger then the humble Advice will allow of it expresly concluding even from that protection allowed to some others the way of Prelacy though it should be set up by some Ministers and others of the Protestant Religion and therefore all Ministers and their Assemblies though professing the Protestant Religion cannot equally lay claim to the protection there spoken of But for answer to all that you here urge out of this eleventh Section of the humble Advice we shall say two things 1. That as your selves speak only of protection allowed by it to some persons of different judgement in worship or discipline so whoever will peruse this Section shall not find that it saith one word touching the restraint of the exercise of Church-discipline towards any when it speaks of some that shall differ in other things sc that had been mentioned particularly before in doctrine worship or discipline from the publick profession held forth to whom it allows protection from injury as it grants them a freedom from mulcts and civil penalties and then after of such Ministers or publick Preachers who shall agree with the publick profession in matters of faith although in their judgement and practice they differ in matters of worship and discipline whom it makes capable being otherwise duely qualified and duely approved of some special grace and favour that the former sort are not capable of it is plain from those expressions that it owns a publique discipline which is not held forth any where but in the forme of Church Government established by Ordinance of Parliament for the Church of England and Ireland Aug. 29. 1648. that hath been often times mentioned But you will not find that the exercise of this publick discipline held forth is any where at all in this Section prohibited or that it is restrained in regard of its exercise towards any or limited only in that respect to the Ministers and Assemblies of this or the other perswasion And yet that this publick discipline held forth as aforesaid might be free from all suspition of any undue rigour or harshness towards any we shall here mention one rule which we recited with several other things in our answer to your first Paper touching the Order prescribed in the forme of Church Government of proceeding to excommunication which runs in these words But the persons who hold other errours in judgment about points wherein learned and godly men possibly may or do differ and which subvert not the faith nor are destructive to godliness or that be guilty of such sins of infirmity as are commonly found in the children of God or being otherwise sound in the faith and holy in life and so not falling under censure by the former rules endeavour to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace and do yet out of conscience not come up to the observation of all those rules which are or shall be established by authority for regulating the outward worship of God and government of his Church the sentence of excommunication for these causes shall not be denounced against them By this one rule it is very clear that as this discipline is not to be accused of undue severity so there is no repugnancy between the humble Advice and it 2. That which in the second place we have to say is that admitting your proposition were fully as large in the humble Advice in regard of the persons to whom you would have liberty to be extended as you have laid it down which yet we have shewed is not so yet how inconsequently do you argue when you will inferre an exemption of persons from Church censures authorized to be exercised by the forme of Church Government from the humble Advice because it affords them a protection against civil injuries As if this proposition were most certainly true All those that according to the humble Advice are to be protected against civil injuries are thereby exempted from Church censures and yet this must be proved or your consequence is never proved But to make that out we shall allow you time and in the mean season must deny it And so now all you have to the conclusion of this Section is but meer varnish although we are able to tell you as we have told you even now and often before what power is granted unto us who act by an unrepealed Ordinance of Parliament and yet in force that others have not although when you say are these within the bounds of our association subject to our Government unless they will renounce their Baptism and Christianity and which you would represent us to assert in that recital you make of our words in the beginning of the next Section you do therein manifestly offer violence to the words of our answer for if the Reader peruse the first part of the fifth Section of our answer he may there find that we declared our selves in the first place fully against those of the separation and concluded that discourse with these words that hereupon our work was not to constitute Churches but to reforme them only And that therefore none within our bounds except they shall renounce Christianity and their Baptisme can be deemed by us to be without in the Apostles sense this being our answer to what you had pressed us with in your first Paper pleading your exemption from under our Governement from the words of the Apostle and saying for what have you to do to judge those that are without The conclusion then that we inferd did answer that argument you urged from the Apostles words For its plain from our declaring our selves we judged none to be without in the Apostles sense but only Heathens of whom the Apostle spake or such as having formerly professed Christianity did renounce it and their Baptisme and that therefore none could be exempted by those words of the Apostle from being within the verge of our Presbyterian Governement which was the inference we thereupon made By all which it is very clear in what sense those words were to be taken that you here mention and that we did not say that except men did renounce Christianity and their Baptisme they were subject to our Government as you would have it to be but that they could not be judged by us to be without in the Apostles sense except they should make so great an apostacy and wherein we were more liberal and charitable toward you then you were toward your selves It is one thing that makes a member of the Catholick visible Church and another that makes a member of this or that particular Church as it is also true that
waies and hedges to fetch in his guests we will not refuse the service nor be ashamed to beare the reproach of more then that phrase signifies for his sake 4. And what though we were to exhort persons to apply themselves to the Eldership for their coming to the Sacrament doth this follow that all that can not submit to Elders shall be subject to excommunication whether scandalous or no c. We presume if they had their Government on foot whatsoever they would allow to dissenting Brethren which when time was was little enough as some of us well remember yet they would not betray their Discipline to contempt by making it indifferent whether the people render any submission to it or no. If men have no scruples against the Government practised who is so little a friend to peace or satisfied in the grounds of his own actings as to cast needless scruples before them It was time enough for us to manifest what we could condescend to in respect of the manner of admission when there was occasion offered for any such need which we have not ordinarily met with in those that have since tendred themselves to the Ordinance There was enough declared at the Publication of the Paper to have prevented any such construction as they made of it in this thing and therefore we cannot but admire at what we finde next that our aime should be to bring all sorts to subject themselves to Ministers and Elders for examination and that all persons must come under the inquisition not so much to fit them for the Sacrament as to teach them Obedience that they might know themselves to be homines ad servitutem nati c. whenas the chief Acter in the Printing of these Papers could not but heare a solemne profession to the contrary at our publishing of our Paper as aforesaid which he cannot shew to be contradicted by any after practice as also when by experience there are severall Communicants in our Congregations that have scrupled being examined before the Elders whom yet we have not refused but have found out expedients for their admission without any further trouble to them in the thing they have scrupled the Eldership consenting that two Ministers might take an account of their knowledg and they after be admitted by the Eldership and of this practice of ours both before and since upon occasion there are severall in our Congregations able and we believe ready to testifie 5. Whether our Paper published for the scope or matter deserve to be called brutum fulmen or whether their Answer savoured of all or any meeknesse and humility we shall not here speake further of they best know with what frame of spirit they tendred it though we could discerne but little of such a temper in it For the grounds of their dissatisfaction but in one sheet and that we put our selves to the trouble of seaven to returne them an Answer in and whether it be longer then sound we leave the Papers themselves to manifest of which being published by them the Reader may supply himself with an account and freely making his own judgment 6. For what Ecclesiasticall or Civill Sanction we have for our Government we leave that to be judged by those that shall peruse our following Papers And that they wonder that men pretending to Religion and Learning c. So we wonder at them how they dare pretend to Religion or Learning and call them mens own Lawes the Placita of our own wills fancies of men nay praevarications before they had better made it to appear that they were such That matter is foule indeed and inconsistent with Religion and Learning to call in the God of truth to abett our own fancies and to pretend to civill authority to second our own prevarications But we might return to the Laconicke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If to this If it be so but that 's the great Question But the Prefator here can dispute and moderate too and very ingenuously determine on his own side without any respect at all to our Arguments for the contrary eg regiae scilieet artis est ridere quod non potest solvere 7. What unguided zeale or interest it is that should precipitate us we no more are carefull to clear our selves from then to retort the like upon them in their opposition of us which we might as well do But about this danger of a Premunire we cannot thinke them cordiall in their advice and caution to us because they would perswade us to return to Canonicall obedience and Episcopacy c. which we know is expresly excepted against in the late Laws of the Land and we foresee it to be a Praemunire to meddle with them and therefore we have cause to judg that they would fancy us in a Premunire in the way against them not careing to draw us into a reall Praemunire in a way with them 8. That what we published is any thing against the Laws it will speake for it self they have published it to the view of the world and if without their Comment any thing be justly culpable by the Law we are not now likely to be concealed 9. But that what we published should be stiled Laws and Canons and that for all men to obey upon paine of excommunication we see no reason for any such construction of our action We presume our conclusions should not have been stiled Canons by them unless thereby they intended to put some odium upon them And they know whose practice in Government made that word less pleasing amongst us which was well received and reverenced in the ancient Church to set forth the conclusions of Councils and Synods by 10. They now to the end of their Preface express their trouble at our self-contradiction in severall things as first that we should cry out against the Prelates for Lordliness over Gods inheritance and we our selves aspire at the same and much more If they find not our way more sociall we are sure they have felt as little of the burthen of our fingers If the Prelates had bent their endeavours and authority to informe the grosly ignorant and to reforme the openly scandalous it had never by us been cryed out against for Lordly Tyranny And when we have principally in this cause so bent our selves we wonder with what face they can fancy us Prelaticall we should never have complained of the weight of their loynes if it had been only in these cases and if in these manifest entrustments of Christs Government viz. For the information of the ignorant and reformation of the scandalous our fingers are heavier then their loines they say more to ours and less to the Prelates honour The Prelates Lording it over the Lords heritage we frequently declare wherein it was when we speake of it and not as they charge us with the same and tell us not for what When we enjoyne Ceremonies bowing at the Name of Jesus Crosse in Baptisme wearing the
they have done or we may now do amongst men we know not but pro captu lectoris c. we are well aware of a spirit of prophanenesse and indifferency in the things of God that prevailes sadly in this Nation and with men of loose lives it is enough that some have spoken against the Government quale quale sit vvhatever it is they say and vvhatever vve may say to the contrary in our Answer theirs shall go for an unanswerable Piece because it is of a Subject so deare to too many though ours to the contrary be never read by them For those that are sober and moderate we question not but they have seen something in ours already that is in a good part unanswered and much vvronged in theirs vvhich vvould in some measure satisfie them if vve should have said no more however stay their appetites till this our further Answer comes ¶ It may not seem altogether impertinent to the sober and unprejudiced Reader if in this place vve subjoyne only a briefe Note in vvay of vindication of the same so much opposed and despised Presbyterian Government from an injury as vve conceive offered to it by another hand And though vve reverence the Learned Author of the Book vvherein it is done viz. Dr. Sanderson a man eminent for his Learning and labours in the Church of God yet vve conceive the vvorthy Doctor vvill hold us excused if we take notice of the vvrong he hath done us since he hath as vve judge causelesly aspersed us in Print And we rather shall do this little in this place confining our selves to what as vve judge doth more particularly concern us that we may hereby invite some worthy Author that may have time and a more convenient occasion of doing it more largely to take up some other passages in the same Book vvhich we thinke might easily be cleared and the Doctors want of moderation vvhich yet he so much professeth be much evidenced in those many charges he casts upon the Presbyterians his Anticeremoniall Brethren But this passage is in his Preface to his fourteen Sermons Printed Ano. 1657. In his eighteenth Paragraph vvhere he vvould perswade the world much that the Presbyterians though not purposely yet eventually should be the great promoters of the Roman interest amongst us and that more waies then one as by putting to their hands to pull down Episcopacy c. but upon his second thing he saies they promote the Roman interest by opposing it with more violence then reason c. And so as the common fault of all Presbyterians so to do they being men it seems not dealing with learning and reason in the Doctor 's esteem he confirms this by an observation of some vvhich he makes most his own in that he only publisheth it to the world and subscribes unto it vvith a particular reference to our County in these vvords It hath been observed by some and I know no reason to question the truth of the observation that in those Counties Lancashire for one where there are the most and the most rigid Presbyterians there are also the most and the most zealous Roman Catholicks To vvhich vve say that though vve shall not stand upon vvhat he asserteth that either there are most or most rigid Presbyterians in this County the truth of which in any sense but vvhat is truly an honour to us in vvhich vve thinke he vvould be very sparing vve might question as also vvhat he meanes by Papists and those most and most zealous and that in this County they should be such vve shall not now dispute but that Presbytery should be the eventuall cause of this vve do much admite at the Doctors Aslertion For if it vvere so that vvhere rigid Presbyterians are there should be rigid Papists doth it therefore follow that the one is the cause of the other We should to such a consequence return the Answer which Bp. Laâ—imer made to the Objection against Preaching that Preaching vvas the cause of Rebellion for before Preaching was there vvas not such Rebellion vvhich vvas that this vvas as Temderton steeple was the cause of the stoppage of Sandwich haven but that vve judge the consequents of the Doctors observation more absurd For it doth not so vvell follow that Presbytery should occasion stifness in Popery because it cannot be said of the Papists in this County that they vvere not here before Presbytery came in If this be the eventuall cause vvhat vvas it then before this Government vvas established that vvas the cause there vvas so many rigid Papists in Lancashire If their very rise and breeding had been contemporary with this Government there had bâ—en more reason for the observation though not much in it at the best but that the prevalency of a more ridgid Popery in this County which was so evident in the time of Episcopacy as is notorious to all that are acquainted with these parts that this should be ascribed to Presbytery so long before it was born here we admire at the oversight of this learned man herein But it s ordinary vvith many men of this way and we are sorry to see any of this spirit in so Reverend a man that what is found amiss amongst us which was truly the fault of the Prelaticall Clergy or at least much more theirs is ordinarily laid upon the Presbyteriall Ministers for but coming in their places after them We desire to be sensible of what is amiss in our Congregations and to take to what we can be truly charged with in defect of not endeavouring to reforme as we could desire yet we thinke it strange to be reproached for these things by the Episcopall men who led us the vvay vve may speak vvithout partiality in greater neglects in respect of their ordinary personall care of their places and laid the foundation of those abuses in our members by their negligence which we are yet litâ—le able to remove And for men of this perswasion to come and view our Congregations and Counties and to find these faults to reflect upon this Government thereby we think it ill chid of them of any This holds true in this of the Doctors as of our Gentlemen in their charge of our peoples ignorance to be for want of catechizing and the like We shall not say much about the number of Papists at present in this County but this we are confident they have gotten no ground upon us since Presbytery was setled here The furthest part of the County hath many in it as it had ever since Queens Mari's time the reformation never yet prevailing in those parts especially for want of a setled Ministery there and where most Papists are there the Government is least setled so that if we were directly chargeable with this thing it might the more truly be said to those that know this countrey the want of Church Government should rather be the eventuall cause of Popery to them And whether it may not be trulier
know of And if you had gathered thus much from our Paper as your mistake had been far the lesse so your Charity had been the more then to have reckoned us in the number of such Person as the Donatists were And yet we did not mean That we intended to take notice in order unto censure of such who being sound in the faith and godly in life though differing from us in point of Discipline and Government had their distinct Assemblies from ours they indeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace They not being censurable by the rules of our Government as is manifest by what we have declared before Although we remember how all that submitted not to the former Government were counted schismatical Neither did we reckon these in the number of the lawless Persons we speak of who subjected not themselves to our Government and whom we account to be parts of the universal visible Church militant here on earth however they have also their publique Assemblies distinct from ours though sundry of them as there is occasion resort to ours also But how we should hereupon make either these or the lawless Persons that we speak of members of the invisible Triumphant Church all which we have reckoned to belong to the visible they must have eyes quicker then Eagles that can discern how this follows and therefore there is no fear our Charity should so far over-reach as you supposed it might But still you are unsatisfied For you know not it seems what we mean by the word Publique the publique Assemblies of the Saints By our professions and practises in our owning the Publique Assemblies where the publique Ordinances of the word Sacraments and Prayer are dispensed which we our selves do constantly frequent and stir up others to frequent also it was plain enough what we meant by publique Assemblies And we are heartily sorry that you understanding our meaning as is clear by what you say anon should by this but make your way to give a lash at our private meetings which are none of them such as we need to be ashamed of And which when we meet either for conference about matters of Religion or to pray together and humble our selves for our own sins and the sins of these times when there is not the opportunity of a publique Assemby or when personal or Family occasions call for a private is surely as commendable at the least as a private meeting upon domestical civil or political occasions and therefore not to be secretly girded at As on the other hand we do not meddle with the censuring of those who being godly and sound in the faith in the main points of Relegion do yet differ from us in iudgement in matters of Discipline and Government and have their Assemblies for Gods publique worship distinct from ours as we are barred from it by the rules of our Government as we have often said before And therefore we leave room enough for Consciences that are truely tender Though we cannot say so much for the Prelatical Government Neither do we transgress any Laws of the Land which have made no provision to except any persons that we meddle with and are made censurable by the rules laid down in the from of Church Government nor have we under Colour of Authority made any Laws and Edicts but according to that power that the civil Authority hath committed to us have only openly given notice in our several Congregations of what offences are censurable by the rules of our Government that the offenders might take heed they incurre not that censure of Excommunication which Authority hath awarranted us to inflict upon the obstinate and otherwise incorrigible And therefore except to execute what we are appointed to do by the civil power be to contemn it we cannot be thought to have done any thing in contempt of the civil power as it is not our ignorance of the Laws in force that we are confident being grounded in reason fight not one aganst another and which is your more charitable and favorable construction that hath led us into any practises that are transgressions of them And therfore though you much question upon what account soever it be that we have been led into what we have acted and think it concernes us to look to it whether we have not run our selves into a premunire Yet we are assured we are as sufficiently secured against that danger as all the Iustices in the Land are that have acted upon other Ordinances of Parliament which they have judged to be in force as we do also those to be that have been the ground of our proceedings SECT X. BUt you have yet further to except for whereas we said That like notice should be taken of all scandalous Persons Your next Quaere is Whether those that forsake the publique Assemblies of the Saints in the second order may not be taken for scandalous Persons cemprehended in the third order Here we perceive you understood who were ment by those that did forsake the publique Assemblies of the Saints viz. Those who forsaking the Assemblies where the publique Ordinances were dispensed were upon that account really and indeed scandalous and so being comprehended under the latitude of that expression might justly merit to be censured as scandalous Persons And thus conceiving you were not mistaken but yet we who were to express our selves popularly and so as we might be understood considering some of that stamp though they forsook the publique Assemblies of the Saints and coustantly turned their backs as on the Lords Supper so on all other Ordinances yet if not drunkards and swearers whoremasters c. did not take themselves to be scandalous Persons Do not think that in this we are any more to be blamed by you we using variety of expressions onely for this end that we might be better understood then we blame Lawyers and Attorneys and wherein we judge them not tolbe blame worthy for using variety of expressions and Multiplicity of Synonymous Words to make the matter more clear and out of doubt where yet one and the same thing is understood by all But now hereupon your complaint is That we burden you with Traditions in multiplying of orders fine necessitate ad Arthritim usque and you cry out Quare oneramini ritibus And tell us of lengthning out our Paper which yet is not by these few words here used made very much longer But if you had remembred the multitude of Canons and burdensom Ceremonies that were rigorously pressed even to the highest censure in Case of refusall and under the burthen whereof sundry truly conscientious Persons under the late Prelacy did sigh and groan When those that were scandalous enough in their lives escaped censure and which some have cause not so soon to forget we think you would have seen little reason to have complained of our burthening you with traditions in multiplying orders unnecessarily SECT XI ANd now we come
setling a Government in the Church we did not judg you to be so irrationall as to be for a Government and yet deny subjection to it whence also it was clear that that was not to be condemned in us which you would justifie in your selves yet about this also in this your Reply there is deep silence But thus we have shewed how you are pleased to severall things in our Answer to say nothing as it will be evident to the Reader you say as good as nothing in sundry places where you would seem to say something and yet you would be thought to say what might be sufficient to give us satisfaction For in your second Paper speaking to one head of our Answer sc that about ruleing Elders you said you would proceed to shew us that lay-Elders as you call them are not meant in the Texts by us alledged briefly thus but more largely hereafter if what is comprehended in this Paper be not judged satisfactory and yet when you should come in this Reply in the next Section to make this appear more fully you say nothing to the Texts we urged but only that they are too generall to prove our ruling Presbytery out of and tell us of wresting the Scriptures with such like expressions suitable to your way of replying all along and which we doubt not but the wise Reader will of himself observe onely we thought it requisite upon the occasion you here give us to mind him of it that he might the better observe you through your whole Reply But we shall now examine whether we had not just cause to be offended at you for your calling Presbytery a common fould One of the reasons which we gâ—ve you mention and that indeed which was the chief yet there was another given in that parenthesis which you touch not on sc That out of respect to the authority ordaining it you might have used a more civil expression But this it seems you had no minde to meddle with the authority of that Parliament that setled the Presbyterian Government being of little esteem with those of you that were either actually engaged with or friends unto the party that fought against it and whereupon it is no great wonder that you omit this reason of our offence But the other you speak to and that with some more freedom then doth become you as we shall shew anon This other reason was this Considering the word Presbytery is a known Scripture expression 1 Tim. 4. and interpreted by sundry of the Fathers as we do as hath been declared before you might have used a more civil expression In answer unto this 1. You tell us the Fathers are different in the sense and interpretation of this word Presbytery in the Scripture expression 1 Tim. 4. And we must tell you that of what low and cheap abilities soever we may be accounted with you yet this different interpretation of this place whereof you would seem to inform us out of the Fathers we have been long since acquainted with onely when you alledg the Greek Fathers as Ignatius Chrysostome Theodoret Theophilacâ— Oecumenius and others and some few of the Latines also taking the word Presbytery for the company of Presbyters i. e. Bishops who lay hand on the new made Bishops or Priests you must hereupon 1. Acknowledg that these Fathers held Bishops and Presbyters to be all one else how could they understand by Presbyters the Bishops who lay hands on the new made Bishops or Priests you do here represent them to explain the word Presbyters by Bishops and the word Bishops by Priests which word is the same in sense with Presbyters which is manifestly to make Bishops and Presbyters all one This we desire to be took notice of because when you may come hereafter to be pressed with it we fear you that are so ready to charge us therewith will your selveâ— run back and eat your own words 2. You confess that they expound this word touching the company of Presbyters which is enough for our vindication when we said that 1 Tim 4 was interpreted by sundry of the Fathers as we do 3. And whereas you say they take it for the company of Presbyters i. e. Bishops who lay hands on the new made Bishops or Priests explaining the word Presbyters by Bishops and again the word Bishops by Priests that is a quipollent to the word Presbyters you must hence be forced to confess that these Fathers acknowledged the Ordination by Presbyters only to be valid they by their explication of themselves by you alleadged making Bishops and Presbyters who without controversie laid on hands all one And therefore if you here be of the mind of these Fathers by your selves produced you must retract your opinion formerly declared with much confidence against the Ordination by Presbyters only There is no place for you here to evade except you shall say that the Fathers by you alleadged and explaining the word Presbyters by Bishops or you expounding them so by Bishops understand such Bishops as were superiour to Presbyters either in Order and Jurisdiction or at least in degree and whom you will have to concurre at the least and preside in the Ordination or it is null and void but this is to say that the Fathers expounding the Scripture do make it a nose of wax and in effect to assert that quidlibet may be drawn ex quolibet For if by Presbyters that are expresly mentioned not Presbyters themselves but another and distinct sort of persons are to be understood never called in Scripture by that name may we not by this rule of exposition make the Scripture speak what we please according to our own fancies and contrary to the express words of the Text To say nothing that this evasion if admitted would not help the matter at all feeing you do here represent the Fathers not only explaining the word Presbyters by Bishops but again explaining the word Bâ—shops by Priests the same word in sense with Presbyters and so making them every way one because they make these words Bishops and Presbyters mutually to explain one another 2. We have done with the different interpretation of the Fathers upon the Text 1 Tim. 4. and now we come to Calvin whom you bring in here as contrary to himself in that Exposition that he gives upon it But we see you have a mind to asperse him though he be so farre above you in regard of that deserved praise that he hath throughout the Churches that it is not your biting at him that can detract any thing from him else you would not have said that in his Comment upon this place he is as farre opposite to his judgement delivered in his institutions as high noon is to midnight For however in his Comment upon this place he first saith Presbyterium qui hic collectivum nomen esse putant pro collegio Presbyterorum positum recté sentiunt meo judicio yet he addes Tametsi omnibus
would not they had not any such a will purpose or intention he doth not say as you say that they did not frame a forme of Church Government differing from that which Christ hath prescribed in his Word He had intimated in the first Section that many of the Canons that were made in those times sc of the ancient Church did seem to express more then was to be found in sacred Scripture and though in regard of that good measure of purity of Governement and Discipline that did remain in those times he doth seem to extenuate what deviation there was from the word of God yet he doth not allow of every thing that was then appointed In the second Section he comes to shew how Bishop came up at the first sc that for the prevention of Schisme the Presbyters chose out of their number in every City one to whom they gave the title of Bishop and that upon this reason lest dissentions should arise from equality But withall there shewes that the Bishop thus superiour to the rest of the Presbyters in honour and dignity had not any dominion over the Presbyters whom he calls his Colleagues but only had that office as the Consul in the Senate and as indeed the Moderatour hath in our Assemblies as from that which he there instaneeth in that did at the first belong to him is clear and manifest And then he addes and saith even this it self the Ancients themselves confess was at the first brought in Pro temporum necessitate in regard of the necessity of the times and humano consensu by the consent and agreement of men as he proves out of Hierome And in the fourth Section which you chiefly here referre to he saith whereas every Province had amongst the Bishops one Archbishop and whereas also in the Synod of Nice there were constituted Patriarchs who were above the Archbishops in regard of dignity that did belong as he there saith to the conservation of the discipline But yet addes Quanquam in hâe disputatione praeteriri non potest quod â—arissimi â—rat usus i e. although in this disputation it may not be omitted that it was of most seldome or rare use And then he shews that the use of the Archbishop was for the calling a Provincial Synod as there might be occasion when the matter requiring it could not be determined by fewer and so by a lesser Assembly and in case the cause was more weighty or difficult that then the Patriarch was to call a more general Synod from which there was to be no appeal but to a general Council And thus Calvin shewes what was the reason of the first institution of Bishops Archbishops and Patriarchs but from that account given by him of this their first appointment it is manifest that their superiority above their fellow Brethren was not from the beginning it being but an humane constitution only and that at the first yea even in the time of the Nicene Council it was nothing like to what it grew to be afterward And that that power even of the Patriarchs and Metropolitans that was appointed or confirmed by the Nicene Council was nothing like unto that power that was exercised by the Bishops and Archbishops in this Land whilest Episcopacy stood their power at that time being chiefly if not only for the calling of Synods sc Provinciall or of a larger circuit as there might be need and they having therein only a presidency or moderatorship and not exercising any dominion over their Colleagues according to that representation of the matter of fact that Calvin truely makes And because the appointment of them was done out of a good intent without any will or purpose to appoint any forme of Government in the Church differing from that which God had appointed in his word and as an Ecclesiastical constitution only which the godly Fathers in those times thought might be of use though afterward as we have before shewed it proved otherwise and considering what a good measure of the ancient discipline remained entire in those times Calvin did therefore speak moderately of what they did though he did not as is manifest approve of all they did But thus the Reader may discerne that you have not dealt any more fairly with Calvin here whom in this place you would make to be a justifier and patron of Prelacy then you have dealt with him elsewhere though by what we have said we hope he is sufficiently vindicated and the contrary to what you alleadge him for fully evidenced And this that hath been said concerning Calvin will likewise shew how Beza is to be understood if he any where say what the ancient Fathers appointed touching the Hierarchy was done optimo zelâ— out of a very good zeal For by that expression he only approves of their pious and good intent in what they did but not of all that was done and when you call him that earnest patron of Presbyterian discipline you should not by stretching his words beyond their scope have represented him to have approved of that which the Presbyterian discipline doth not own 8. And thus having answered fully to what you have said for that Government which you are for and pray might be established in this Nation we must still mind you that whatever you here again say to the contrary as yet you have not proved this Church Government to be agreeable either to the will of God which was not as yet attempted to be made out by you or to the universal practice of Primitive Churches your proof for this falling far short and that however now you would mince the matter speaking of the rule whereby we are to judge touching Church Government or other matters of Religion in saying you put both together not the word of God alone nor the Churches practice alone but both together and which is not to be disallowed of when it is clear that the Churches practice is agreeable to the word of God yet by what you have discovered to be your opinion in this Section and of which we have fully spoken it is manifest you have given that to the Church Councils and Fathers and their exposition which is proper to the Scripture sc to be the only sure interpreter of it self and judge in all controversies of Religion and which is that which we have asserted and defended against you in this answer and by giving of which unto the Scripture we have detracted nothing from the credit that is due unto the Church or her lawfull and laudable customes which we are so farre from any wayes invalidating that we do assert and defend the same as also her authority against all heretical and schismatical persons that seek her overthrow although we see no reason to count those heretical and schismatical persons that seek to overthrow the Church that cannot either believe that the Church is the only iudge of coutroversies in matters of Religion or her exposition the best and surest rule