Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	authority_n	church_n	reason_n	1,519	5	4.9993	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78222	Apodeixis tou antiteichismatos. Or, a tryall of the counter-scarfe, made 1642. In answer to a scandalous pamphlet, intituled, A treatise against superstitious Iesu-worship: written by Mascall Giles, Vicar of Ditchling in Sussex. Wherein are discovered his sophismes: and the holy mother our church is cleered of all the slanders which hee hath laid on her. By the author of the Antiteichisma.	Barton, Thomas, 1599 or 1600-1682 or 3.	1643 (1643)	Wing B997; Thomason E87_13; ESTC R209874	118,628	143

was constrained unto it I will suppose no man was so mad as to contemne it And suppose Ministers suspended for other Ceremonies were never questioned for this I will againe suppose they were not complained of All then you say doth no more make it not a duty of the Text or accuse the Church of hypocrisie then your not administring the Lords Supper but as and when you please doth One particular destroyes not the generall Nor doth the not punishing every neglect of a duty make it lesse a dutie It may often happen as now it doth that the Church hath little or no power to punish But had she power and were not the Canons within the Church-wardens inquirie Did they or any other ever Present the default and it passed without blame Bishops though they be eminent inspectors are not Omniscient If the offenders be not made knowne whom shall they correct The Scriptures hath prescribed this Non sit dubitandum Aug. Epist 110. ad Ianu. quin ita facere debeamus No doubt we ought so to doe The Church therefore questions not every neglect before she finds the contempt And the lesse because she holds it a part insolentissimae insaniae of most insolent madnesse to dispute Gods command SECTION XVIII LAst of all I may bring this as a reason against them the most of them and some also of the chiefest of them that ground it on the Text yet hold their opinion very uncertainly they passe to and fro betwixt the Text and the Canon When they thinke that the Authority of the Canon is not altogether sufficient to make the people to practise it they flee to the Text when they are afraid that the Text will not beare it they flee to the Canon And if this be not halting betweene two opinions for my part I know not what is I will instance but in one Master Page in his Treatise of Iustification of bowing at the Name Iesus doth confesse that when he first went about that Treatise he did not thinke that it could be so directly proved from the Text a plaine evidence that he went about it doubtfully for he was to encounter with an Antagonist that held it no dutie of the Text and would he goe about to contradict him when himselfe was fearefull that the Text would not beare it but he affirmes that when he had read Bishop Andrewes on Phil. 2 he could not but condescend to his * Page Iustification bowing P. 4. opinion yea though he brings many Arguments such as they are to prove it a dutie yet thus he closeth with his Antagonist Though I am not so peremptory saith he that it is a duty of the Text as you are it is not Neverthelesse if the Text faile me I will ground it upon the Authority of the Church Answer Whom you here meane I know not some and some of the chiefest they are and in their opinions uncertaine they Because what you thinke you say and care not what Sir if you will understand what I feare you studie to contemne this Orthodoxe truth you must goe from the Text to the Canon and from the Canon to the Text. Thus if you will from the Text to the Canon as to the Hypereticall or Ministeriall Diction of the Sentence and then from the Canon to the Text to examine it by the Decisive of the Scripture This course I first tooke and the Scripture hath so determined it in my Conscience as I write Consider once more the Text and the Canon and this Ceremonie is a Divine dutie and a Humane As commanded in Scripture it is a Ceremoniall dutie Divine or of the Text Iustifi of bowing P. 8. saith Doctor Page and as commanded by the Church it is also a Ceremoniall dutie Humane or of the Canon Who then aske how I am sure that this is the Truth Answer is the Church hath so expounded it If demand be how is this Opinion of the Church discerned Answer is by the Letter of the Text and in the analogie of the Truth Nor is this all I am bound by the Text and by the Church if I will not observe the Text God will punish me for disobeying the Church also And this we finde in the Scriptures he doth more grievously then sinnes immediately committed against himselfe So to looke we ought unto the Text and to the Canon And if this be halting betweene two opinions you must halt in many things or be very ignorant and because you will not be stayed by the Church in any thing you stumble often as you goe And now are fallen heavie on Doctor Page whom a good man having blessed God for him will honour for his worth and thanke for his paines Ambros sup beati immacul Ordinis ignorantia conturbat negotiorum naturam formamque meritorum and you have done what thereby you could to crack his credit which still encreaseth by your contempt You note him for halting where his judgement is most sound I 'le expresse his words because you have chopped them to spoyle his sense I must confesse saith he that when I first entred upon this businesse I thought it could not be so directly proved out of the Text. But when I had perused that Learned and judicious Prelate Bishop Andrewes upon these words who conquers where he goes c. I could not but condescend to his opinion Not that I am so peremptorie it is a dutie of the Text as you are that it is not but I am perswaded now that it may be very probably defended even out of the Text. Wherein notwithstanding if I faile the Cause in hand is no whit prejudiced being principally defended upon the Churches Authoritie But for ought I perceive yet you must bring better Reasons then any you yet alledged before you perswade me that it is no dutie of the Text. What see you here save a modest and free confession of his first thoughts His care and course not to erre his submission to the Authoritie of the Church and his confidence even at the sundry insults of his Adversarie that it is a dutie of the Text. Hee doubteth hee searcheth hee findes hee stands to it Here is no despising of Prophesying but an examining of all things a holding fast that which is good and this is Apostolicall 1. Thess 5.20.21 Will you be remembred now The time was when you held it lawfull to be done and since writ to me that it was an indifferent Ceremonie But now in this great Loose you have preached it Damnable Superstition Damnable you will have it Is not this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 worse th●n doubting even fraudulent and base playing on both sides Carpere vel noli nostra vel ede tua Yea throughout the whole Treatise he is content with any testimonie or proofe from any Authour that may give the least signification that it is but a thing indifferent yea which is to be noted that those Authours that are evidently against him

and understand bowing the knee in the Text of subjection because they say that this subjection is signified by bowing the knee he takes to be for him he may as well affirme that because Kings and Rulers are commanded to be subject to Christ Psal 2.12 which subjection is signified by the word Kisse therefore they are bidden in an expresse and literall way directly and plainly to Kisse Christ Answer Certainely you have a Worme and cannot be quiet Let any Scholler with an impartiall eye peruse the Learned Doctors Booke and he will deeme that you either know not Authoritie good from bad or minde not what you reade I have looked into most of the Authors themselves and must testifie unto the World that you have taxed him falsely What though hee say that Bishop Babington confesseth by bowing the knee is meant subjection Iustifi of bowing Pa. 22. whereof bowing the knee is a signe and wee desire no more Is this any thing Yes very great against you for hee is the maine Pillar you flye too B. Babing in his exposi of the Catho Faith p. 197. and affirming the bowing of the knee there to be a signe he overthrowes you Your paralelling the Bowing with the Kisse Psal 2.12 holds not for his Name wee have with us to bow at his Person wee have not directly and literally to kisse A strange thing that a man should write so largely as he doth and yet not be sure of his own grounds what is this but to ensnare the Consciences of his Readers to make them practise a duty yet they shall not know upon what ground they practise it they shall not know whether they obey Gods Commandement or Mans only To state preach this opinion so uncertainly as many Ministers ha●e done what is this but to bring upon the consciences of their people a necessity of sinning and so great peril of damnation for whatsoever is not of faith is sin Rom. 14.23 I say to all these men as Elias said to the Worshippers of Baal 1 Kings 18.21 Why doe yee halt betweene two opinions If God be God follow him but if Baal be he follow him So I say If you will ground this bowing upon the Text follow that or if upon the Canon follow * Though they have no fast footing upon either that you cannot ground it upon both and yet make it a thing indifferent for if you ground it on the Text you must make it necessary and alwayes and at all times and places continually to bind Answer A strange rudenesse to be so lavish of Pen but you are put to it and having ensnared know no other way to uphold your Gin. T is ever your ultimum refugium when arguments are convincing to play the Huckster A loose tongue countenanceth your owne by depraving others T is infallible whatsoever is not of faith is sinne But observes he not this Canon who following the letter of the Text keepes the analogie of faith and obeyes the authoritie of the Church Had you descended unto Zanchies seventh and eighth rule of interpreting the Scriptures Zanch. de interp S. Scrip. C. 2. p. 423. you might have seene the Doctors judgement First in containing himselfe intra terminos tam reales quam etiam verbales both within the reall and verball termes of the Text. Secondly in searching the interpreters Iustifi of bowing p. 5. and not yeelding unto authority without reason And this is the cause saith Learned Zanchy that we attaine not the true sense some contemne the learned others will read none save there affected with the former I doubt you are an Anabaptist with the other a Papist And in his wisdome Doctor Page hath so certainely stated the question that you cannot maintaine your assertion without being in contempt Avoid this Dilemma and I will set you free If it be full subjection as you and your side contend then t is not full without the bowing of the knee For that is one facultie of man an humble one too and a reall and verball terme of the Text. If mentall onely as some times you say shew your mentall subjection without an outward act for all outward may come within the bowing of the knee and I will shew you that my eares see and my eyes heare One is as true as the other If you cannot demonstrate it how doth your light shine before men that they may glorifie your Father which is in heaven Mat. 5.16 You are much out in your citation 1 King 18.21 God and Baal are repugnant God and his Church are not Our sooting is fast t is you serve not God right that obey not his Church in the truth In this obedience we follow him nor hold we it an indifferent thing so to doe but necessary alwayes Alwayes to bee morigerous though not at all times and in all places necessary to expresse such outward acts of obedience I l'e now take leave of the first part and leave it the first part of an Ode Horat. l. 2. 〈◊〉 13. Ille nefasto te posuit die Quicunque primum Sacrilega manu Produxit arbos in nepotum Perniciem opprobriumque Pagi PART II. Wherein are Answers to Reasons pretended for bowing at the Name Jesus from Phil. 2.9.10 SECTION I. OF all the R asons that I have hitherto met with I professe I have not found any one that is truly grounded upon the Text or any other correspondent Scriptures but meerely upon the fantasie of the braine Onely there is a shew of a proofe by reason that In the Name is translated at the Name which they presse upon their People in this wise The Text say they is as cleare as the Sunne for this practise doth it not say expressely at the Name of Iesus every knee shall bow Can there be any thing more plaine * There is a great difference between these 2 phrases In the name of Iesus which is the Power of Iesus and at the Name or appellation Iesus as there is between these two In the Name of the King that is the Kings authority and at the Name King I have already answered this therefore I will be silent now onely here I seriously admonish these men to unteach such vaine doctrines I answer them there is nothing more obscure and senselesse than such an Interpretation making In the Name of Iesus to be meant at the mention of the Name Iesus for I have proved before no Scripure can warrant this Exposition But if they will needs have it so meant here I will produce a Text that may make as much for adoration at Gods Name as this Text for the Name Iesus Psal 63.4 Thee will I blesse while I live I will lift up my hands in thy Name What Name this i● the first Ve se shewes it is Gods Name If then In the Name of Iesus be meant at the naming of Iesus what reason can be given why In the Name of God may n●t as well be

meant At the naming of God If then by this exposition we be bound in the one place to bow the knee at the naming of Iesus we are as well bound by th● other place to lift up our hands at the naming of God But it be not meet so to understand the Psalmist in the one place it is not meet so to understand the Apostle in the other place Answer Here are pretended Answers indeed and can be nothing save pretences We reason not for bowing at the bare Name Jesus but for the bowing at the Name of Iesus Yet what have you got by this dealing See what You keepe the genitive case in your title of Superstitious Jesu-worship to shew your impietie and in your discourse change it to make the world beleeve that we are Idolatrous Both hath hitherto bin visible to every eye and will be more in the end And that it will let the Reader note how you oppose answer and reply in this second for and against as the Spirit moves you Your profession in the front of your first Section I answer with a profession that I know not what you have met with all but this I see that where you met with any thing that wee owne you were either blind or would not read it or possess●d with a fanatike fury that makes all things seeme other then they are A shew of proofe you confesse because in is read at But are you not like the man who so hated the light that when the day appeared the Windowes must be shut to keepe him still in darkenesse Who say the Text is as cleere as the Sunne for this practise you doe not Name I am sure our practise is by and in the light of the Sunne If the context be animadverted no cloud doth interpose See my Antiteichisma Your Asteriske or marginall note is answered in Part 1. Sect. 1. and 4. and 15. and ever where you are remembred to joyne the Name and the sense Your admonition● to unteach such vain● doctrine is worth as little as your proofe this is refelled before and that rejected now For the T xt you urge is st●ong enough to confirme us Psal 63.4 Thus will I magnifie thee all my life and lift up my hands in thy Name Is here no outward act with the inward Is it not in the time of confession when the Psalmist prayed and praised the Lord And is it not in and at the Name of the Lord that is when in his heart and with his tongu● he magnified the Lord by and in his owne Attribute This was the custome of old Moses praying spread his hands unto the Lord Exod. 3.29 30. Solomon praying stretched out his toward Heaven 1 King 8.22 It was the Ceremonie of the Priest Vid. Schind ad rad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when he blessed or called the Jehovah on the people to lift up his hands Our Saviour at his departure lifting up his hands blessed his Apostles Luk. 24.50 And in the Primitive times when the Name of God was used in prayers Tertul. 〈◊〉 orat c. 12.13 and prayses outward humilitie was seene It ever was and will be the use when Gods Name is in hand to shew some token of inward submission For my part I will ever either by uncovering the head or by bowing or by lifting up the hands some way or other at the Name of God whilest the Name is in hand in preaching or praying or praysing expresse my inward subjection For the translation though I doe not question it yet in my poore judgement if it had beene translated In the Name as it is in the Originall the same phrase being never translated at the Name in any other place of Scripture but in this place onely though in as hard places as this it would have prevented that great offence which ignorant men have taken by it for the practise of this will-worship and mueh restrained superstitious Teachers from pressing it upon the consciences of their people by reason of this translation But certainly such Teachers have much to answer for for teaching such doctrine when they cannot but know that no Scripture will beare them out in such an Exposition Answer You are much deceived t is not the translation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at makes this a will-worship 't was in practise before either Beza or any other had translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this place ad Your correcting-judgement of our translation makes your cause the worse and teacheth the people who have thought well of your great reading that you cannot justifie the slaunders wherewith in this very argument you have laden the Church of England in your Pulpit You have your time that God may doe his Worke. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hesiod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But we will againe by the helpe of God discusse the cause uprightly SECTION II. Another Reason is this THe Name Jesus say they Zanchius on Phil 2.9 was the most despised and contemptible Name Therefore God will have it honoured when it is mentioned above other Names Page Iust of bowing P. 42. I answer Iesus Christ the great Rabbi and Doctor of his Church hath no where taught them to reason so The Text cannot with any sense beare this Reason for as I have shewed before the Apostle argues from the humiliation of Christs Person to the advancement of his Person not from a Name to a Name The Apostle doth not say that the Name Iesus was humbled therefore he doth not meane that the said Name was exalted Therefore because it hath no light from Gods Word this answer might be sufficient but because it is a reason much relyed upon and ignorant men that know little else have learned it exactly from their Teachers I will encounter with it and make it manifest that there is no strength or soundnesse in the said reason Answer Though there needes no reason beside the command of the Text yet because you should not nor any else thinke no reason can be given for it Zanchy and Doctor Page render this for one viz. it was an humble Name Iustifi of bowing p. 32. It is not with God as it is with men we exalt for Greatnesse he for Goodnesse we magnifie men for Power and Majestie he for Povertie Humilitie and Mercie That 's his reason for his so reasoning and ours too See my Antiteichisma Tract 1. 10. Christ taught us so to doe howsoever you seeme to thwart the great Rabbi and Doctor of his Church 'T was his Doctrine L●k 18.14 He that humbleth himselfe shall be exalte● Of it he hath given himselfe an example Ioh. 13.15 and he hath made it a Law Math. 16.24 who will goe to him must obey it and the Apostle wills here Verse the fifth that the same minde be in us which was in Christ Jesus if wee like him will ever attaine glory The Consequence speakes plaine whilest your Reason stands mute The Apostle doth not say say