Souls of the guiltinesse of it The XII DUPLY. TO justifie or excuse your omission of publick disallowing and condemning the publick disorders and miscarriages of some who have subscrived the Covenant especially the offering of violence to Prelats and Ministers in time of divine Service and in the House GOD whereof we spake in our twelfth Demand and Reply ye answer first that ye acknowledge not the Service-Book for the LORDS Service Ye might say the same of any Service Book If ye allow the Reasons lately set forth in Print against the Service-Book for there a Prescript form of Prayer is condemned which directly crosseth the practise of the universall Church of CHRIST Ancient and Recent 2. Ye alleadge that ye acknowledge not the usurped Authority of Prelats for lawfull Authority For ought we can perceive by the Doctrins of those with whome ye joine ye acknowledge no lawfull Authority at all in Prelats above your selves and other Ministers and ye seem so to insinuate so much here by blaming us for calling them Reverend and holy Fathers We are perswaded of the lawfulnesse of their Office and therefore are not ashamed with Scripture and Godly Antiquity to call such as are advanced to this sacred Dignity Fathers and Reverend Fathers Neither should personall faults alleadged by you hinder our observance till what is alleadged be clearly proven For so long as things are doubtfull we should interpret to the better part Luke 6 37. And it is a rule of Law that in a doubtfull case the state of a Possessor is best and consequently of him that hither-to hath been in a possession of a good name as also that in things doubtfull we should rather favour the person accused then him that accuseth 3. If ye be of this same judgement with us concerning the lawfulnesse of their Office why doe ye not reverence them as well as we But if their very Office seem to you unlawfull we esteem your judgement contrary to holy Scripture to all sound Antiquity and to the best learned amongst reformed Divines Hear what Melanchton sayeth I would to GOD I would to GOD it lay in me not to confirm the Dominion but to restore the Government of Bishops for I see what manner of Policy we shall have the Ecclesiasticall Policie being dissolved I doe see that hereafter will grow up a greater tyrannie in the Church then ever was before And again in another Epistle to Camerarius he sayeth You will not beleeve how much I am hated by those of Noricum and by others for the restoring of Iuridiction to Bishops So our Companions fight for their own Kingdom and not for the Kingdom of CHRIST So in other places See Bucer de Regno CHRISTI Pag. 67. 4. Thirdly Ye alleadge the zeal of the People by reason whereof ye say that it was nothing strange that in such a case they were stirred up to oppose Suppone they had opposed yet that they should have so opposed as to have offered violence to sacred Persons Prelats or Ministers who are spirituall Fathers seemeth to us very strange for all that hitherto ye have said There is no zeal without the extraordinary instinct of GODS Spirit which can warrand men destitute of Authority to lay their hands on such persons Touch not mine anoynted and doe my Prophets no harme sayeth the LORD Psal. 105. Let all things be done decently and in order sayeth S. Paul 1. Cor. 14. 40. GOD is not the author of confusion or timult but of peace sayeth that same Apostle there verse 33. To this purpose Gregorie Nazianzen in his 26 Oration speaking of the chief causes of division in the Church sayeth One of them is unrulie ferventness without reason and knowledge and that another is Disorder and undecencie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 5. The Sonne should account the person of his Father sacred ff de obsequiis Leg. 9. So we ought also to esteem of our spirituall Fathers and therefore to offer injury to their persons and that in time of divine Service must needs be a grievous sin In the Novell Constitutions of Iustinian Authent Collat. 9. Tit. 6. Novella 123. de Sanctiss Episcopis c. Cap 31. there is a remarkable Law to this purpose cited upon the Margine The like Law we find in Cod. Iustin. Lib. 1. Tit. 3. de Episcop Clericis Leg. 10. Now although in these imperiall Lawes the sanction be severe yet we wish no such severity to be used amongst us but praying GOD to forgive them who have transgressed We desire them to consider that anciently amongst Christians such doings were greatly disallowed 6. Chrysostom speaking of the reverence due by people to Pastors sayeth A man may now see that there are not so great sâ—offs and reproaches used by the unfaithfull against the Rulers as by those that seem to be faithfull and to be joined with us Let us therefore inquire whence commeth this negligence and contempt of pietie that we have such a hostilitie against our Fathers There is nothing there is nothing that can so easilie destroy the Church as when there is not an exact jointure of Disciples to their Masters of children to parents and of them that are ruled with their Rulers He that but speaketh evill against his brother is debarred from reading the divine Scriptures for what hast thou to doe to take my Covenant in thy mouth sayeth the LORD and subjoineth this cause Thou sittest and speakest evill of thy brother and thinkest thou thy self worthie to come to the sacred porches who accuseth thy spirituall Father How agreeth this with reason For if they who speake evill of Father or Mother should dye according to the Law of what judgement is he worthie who dare speake evill of him who is much more necessarie and better then those Parents Why feareth he not that the Earth should open and swallow him or that thunder should come from Heaven and burn up that accusing tongue See him also Lib. 3. de Sacerdotio Cap. 5. 6. 7. In the next place ye say that the keeping of GODS House from pollution and superstition belongeth to Authority to the community of the faithfull and to every one in his own place and order but certainly if every one or all the community keep their own place and order they can doe nothing in this by way of force without far lesse against Authority Hence Zanchius in his first Book of Images Thes. 4. sayeth Without Authority of the Prince it is lawfull to none in this Countrey to take Idoles out of Churches or to change any thing in Religion he that doeth so should be punished as seditious This he confirmeth by reason and by the testimony of S. Augustin Tom. 10. de Sermone Domini in Monte Homilia 6. And a little after he subjoineth Augustin handleth this Argument piouslie he dehorteth his people from such a practise and sayeth That it is pravorum hominum furiosorum circumcellionum 8.
it according to your own grounds none of you will say that ye have sworne the perpetuall approbation and practise of these things which ye esteeme to be indifferent whatsoever bad consequent of Popery and Idolatrie Superstition or Scandall should follow thereupon we speake here only of things indifferent in your own judgement for ye have declared before that ye thinke the Ministration of the Sacraments in private places no more indifferent therefore can not forbeare the practise of these although your Ordinary and other lawfull Superiours should will you to doe so wherein Pearth Assembly for which you stand is wronged by you two wayes 1. That ye differ in judgement from them about the indifferencie of the five Articles and next that at the will of your Ordinary and we know not what other lawfull Superiours ye are ready to forbeare the practise of these things which the Assembly hath appointed to be observed What Oaths ye have given at your admission we know not because there is no Ordinance made Civill or Ecclesiastick appointing any such Oath and because the Prelats who arrogated that power presented to the intrants diverse models of Articles to be subscrived dealing with some more hardlie and with others more favourably according to their own diverse motivs considerations For some immediatly after Pearth Assembly without any warrand from the Kirke or Parliament were made to sweare at their Admission that they should both in private and publick maintaine Episcopall Jurisdiction and in their private and publicke Prayers commend the Prelates to GODS mercifull Protection that they should subject themselves to the Orders that presently were in the Kirke or by the consent of the said Kirke should be lawfully established The word lawfully was not in the Principall first subscrived as we have learned and if it had been exprest it is all one for the Superiours were judges to this lawfulnesse and unlawfulnesse We will not labour to reconcile every Oath given by Ministers at their entry with the present Covenant but wish and exhort rather that they may be recalled and repented of as thinges for which they can not answere before a generall Assembly To the Fourteenth IF the words of the Covenant be plaine concerning the meere forbearance and speake nothing of the unlawfulnesse no mans thoughts can make a change 2. By this Reply ye wrong your selves in forging from the words of the Covenant impediments and drawing stumbling blockes in your own way to hinder your subscription ye wrong the subscryvers in changing the state of the question and in making a divorce betwixt Religion and the KINGS Authority which the Covenant joineth together hand in hand and most of all ye wrong the KINGS Majesty in bringing him upon the stage before his Subjects in whose mindes ye would beget and breed suspicions of opposing the trueth of making innovation of Religion and of dealing with his Subjects contrary to his Lawes and Proclamations and contrary to the Oath at his Coronation We are not here seeking inscitiae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or starting hole of ignorance or of the smallest disloyalty of affection but would willingly decline that for the present which neither his Majesties wisdome nor the prudence of Statsmen nor the modesty of good subjects will allow you or us to dispute The Crowns and Scepters of Kings would be more tenderly touched then the ordinary subjects of Schoole disputes The naked naming and bare proposall of certaine suppositions such as some are made by you can not but reflex upon Authority and sound harsh in the eares of all his Majesties good subjects who wish that he may long and prosperously reigne over us 3. His Majesties most honourable privy Counsell hath proven more favourable to this cause of maintaining the reformed Religion then many Pastors whom by reason of their place and Calling it beseemed to goe before others and although according to their wonted custome they gave warrand to make his Majesties Proclamation yet on good groundes remonstrated unto them by the Supplicants they willingly refused their approbation thereof hoping that his Majesty should be moved to give greater satisfaction thereafter and this is not our saying but a publicke doing before many honorable witnesses of which number some were directed unto you whose report ye have no reason to call in question 4. It becometh us to judge charitably of the intentions of our Superiours and most of all of the intentions of our dread Soveraigne Yet if that hold good which the supplicants have offred to prove that the Service Booke and Canons containe a reall innovation of Religion we must judge otherwise de conditione operis of the matters contained in the Booke then de intentione operantis of his Majesties intention although the intention of the Prelates their Associates the Authors contrivers of the Bookes be most justly suspected by us 5. It is no delight to us and can be but small comfort to you to mention the wrongs which by you are done to us all who have joined in this Covenant and doe adhere to the Religion as it was reformed in this land in your estimation writings we are Rebellious perjured hereticks schismaticks blind guydes seducers miserable interpreters ignorants shal such men as these be your reverēd Brethren Is this your meeknesse and charity Is this the duety ye expect from us But setting these aside ye have wronged us in with-holding your hand and help from so good a Cause of purging Religion and reforming the Kirke from so many grosse abuses and opposing all those who have modestly laboured for Reformation Your speaches in private in your chambers beds of sicknesse and in your missives and in publicke at tables and in Synods which are come to our knowledge we wish rather should be remembred and repented of by your selves then be recited by us who desire not to worke you any trouble 6. Although there be a perpetuall harmony betwixt the Word and Works of GOD far contrary to that which we finde to be amongst the Children of men yet often it commeth to passe that the Word and Warnings of GOD which we heare with our ears are not believed till we behold with our eyes the plaine Cōmentaries thereof in His Works Many Proofs and notable Documents have been observed of the Finger of GOD in the Worke in hand the Characters of the great Works of GODS more then ordinary Providence since the beginning are legible here Then did the LORD begin this work when the Adversary was raised to a great hight and become intollerably insolent The beginnings were small and in the eyes of the World contemptible such as use to be the beginnings not of the works of men but of the Magnificke works of GOD the power of GOD sensible in the hearts of many and manifested by the joy the tears and cries of many thousands at the solemne renewing of this Covenant hath been a matter of admiration and amazement never to be
in Brotherly love exhort and entreat us to contribute our best endeavours for extinguishing the common Combustion we praysing GOD for your pious zeale and for the lovingnesse and modesty of your speeches wherein by GOD'S help we shall labour to keep correspondence with you that both we and you may show â—â—â— selves to have learned of CHRIST Meeknesse and lowlinesse of heart we most willingly promise to doe so by all means which our consciences will permit us to use as also to joine our most humble and hearty Prayers with yours that it may please GOD in this dangerous exigent to doe good in His good pleasure to our Sion and to builde up the walls of our Ierusalem †4. We may justly say that this new Covenant is substantially different from the Old which was made Anno 1581. in respect it not onlie containeth that Old Covenant or Confession which was allowed by two Generall Assemblies but also your interpretation of it which as yet hath no such Authoritie or Approbation †5. No Band of Mutuall Defence Against all persons what-so-ever is expressed in the Covenant made 1581. And altho it were yet the case is very unlike For Subjects may make such a Covenant of Mutuall Defence by Armes with the consent of the King who only under GOD hath the power of Armes or of the Sword in this Kingdome But they who made this late Covenant had not his consent as that former or olde Covenant had which is a thing so evident that no man can call it in question †6. As for that which you affirme here that my Lord Commissioner his Grace was well satisfied with your Declaration it becommeth not us to pry narrowlie into his Graces doings but truely we have more then reason to pry most narrowlie into the words of a Covenant which is offered unto us to be sworne and subscrybed lest we abuse and prophane the Sacred Name of GOD and tye our selves to the doing of any thing which is displeasing unto him Last of all whereas ye desire us to joyne our selves to you and to the rest of your Conâ—ederacie who are as you affirme almost the whole Church and Kingdome truely we cannot but reverence such a multitude of our Reverend Brethren and deare Countrey-men and are ready to be followers of them in so farre as they are followers of CHRIST But neither can we doe any thing agaynst the Trueth neither can we attribute so much Authoritie to their multitude as otherwise we would in respect there hath been so much dealing for Subscriptions in all quarters of this Kingdome and so manie have beene threatned to give their consent as we are most credibly informed The Second Demand Whether or no we ought to subscryve the foresaid Covenant seeing all Covenants of mutuall Defence by force of Armes made amongst Subjects of any degree upon whatsoever colour or pretence without the King's Majestie or his Successoures privitie and consent are expreslie forbidden by King JAMES of blessed Memorie and the three Estates of this Kingdome in the Parliament holden at Linlithgow Anno 1585 ANSWERE The Act of Parliament forbiddeth in the first part Leagues and Bands of maintenance privilie made such as are called Bands of Manrent as the act in Queen MARIES time to which it hath relation doeth beare And in the second part only such as tend to the publick disturbance of the peace of the Realme by moving sedition But no act of Parliament doeth discharge nor can any just Law forbid Conventions or Covenants in the generall or such Covenants in speciall as are made with GOD and amongst our selves not for any mans particular but for the common benefite of all not to move Sedition but to preserve Peace and to prevent trouble which by all probabilitie had been to many before this time too sensible if this course had not been taken Conventions and Covenants in the judgement of Jurisconsults are to be esteemed and judged of according to their diverse ends good or bad which made King JAMES of happy memory to take it for an undoubted maxime That pro aris focis pro patre patriae the whole body of the Common-wealth should stirre at once not any more as divided members but as one consolidate lumpe Replye In that second part of that Act of Parliament holden at Linlithgo Anno 1585. are forbidden All Leagues or Bands of Mutuall Defence which are made without the privitie and consent of the KING under the pain to be holden and execute as movers of sedition and unquietnesse c. Wherefore we can no wayes thinke that any Bands or Leagues of Mutuall Defence by force of Armes are there permitted that is not forbidden seeing first the words of the Act are so generall for in it are discharged All Bands made among Subjects of any degree upon any colour what soever without his Highnes or his Successours privitie and consent had and obtained thereunto Next All such Bands are declared to be Seditious and perturbative of the publicke Peace of the Realme or which is all one are appointed to be esteemed so And therefore we can not see how any Bands of that kynde can be excepted as if they were not seditious 2. We doubt not but the late Covenant being considered according to the maine intention of those Pious and Generous Gentle-men Barrons and others our dear Countrey men who made it especially our Reverend Brethren of the holy Ministery is a Covenant made with GOD and proceeding from a zealous respect to GOD His Glory and to the preservation of the puritie of the Gospell in this Church and Kingdome But we cannot finde a Warrand in our Consciences to grant that such Covenants in so farre as they import mutuall Defence against all persons what-so-ever none being excepted no not the KING as it seemeth unto us by the words of your Covenant but farre more by the words of your late Protestation the 28 of Iune wherein you promise mutuall Defence against all externall or internall Invasion menaced in his Majesties last Proclamation are not forbidden by any Band nor justlie yet can be forbidden For first we have already showne that they are forbidden in the foresaid Act of Parliament Anno 1585. 2. No Warrefare and consequentlie no Covenant importing Warrefare is lawfull without just Authoritie which we are perswaded is only in the supreame Magistrate and and in those who have power and employment from him to take Armes Yea so farre as we know all moderate men who duely respect Authoritie will say that it is so in all Kingdomes and Monarchies properly so called Of which nature is this his Majesties most Ancient Kingdome And that it is altogether unlawfull to Subjects in such Kingdomes to take Armes against their Prince For which cause that famous and most learned Doctor Rivetus in a late Treatise called Iesuita vapulans speaking of the judgement of Buchannan and others who taught that Subjects might take Armes against their Prince in extraordinary
better then ye have hither-to done 3. What the most honourable Lords of His Majesties Privy Counsell have done concerning the Kings Majesties last Proclamation is not sufficiently known to us and farre lesse upon what Grounds and Motives they have as you say rescinded their Approbation of the late Proclamation 4. His Majesties Religious and Righteous Disposition hath been to us and is a maine ground wherefore we rest and relye upon his gracious Proclamation perswading our selves that he intendeth not nor never intended any Innovation in Religion 5. We shall labour by all meanes to eschew every thing which in the least degree may wrong you our Reverend and worthy Brethren As for the Wrongs already done by us to you as yee pretend when-so-ever it shall please you to specifie them we hope to give you full satisfaction and to cleare our selves of that Imputation 6. The worke of GOD towards any Nation how strange and wonderfull so-ever it seem to be is never contrary to his Word and therefore we feare not to be found fighting against GODS Worke so long as we fight not against his Trueth revealed in his Word That all-seeing LORD knoweth that we mentaine his Trueth according to the light of our Consciences and are ready to joyne Heart and Hand with you for the Purity and Peace of this Church in every lawfull way course as sincere lovers of Trueth and Peace And now Brethren before we conclude againe we entreat you and all others our deare Countrey-men especially our reverend Bretheren of the holy Ministrie to judge charitablie of us and of our proceedings at this time and in particular of these our Demandes and Replyes which GOD is our witnesse neither hatred of any mans person nor love of Contention nor any worldly respect but only the Conscience of our Calling hath drawn from us And as for our Arguments for not Subscriving which are taken from our due subjection and obedience to our Soveraigne and his Lawes we protest and declare that they ought not to be so interpreted as if we intended to accuse you or others our dear Countrey-men of Disloyaltie towards our most Gracious KING or as if our purpose were to lay any such Imputation upon you for they are only used by us to show what the wordes of the Covenant seem to us to import and how we conceive of them as also what maketh us so to conceive of them We doubt not reverend Brethren but ye know that as we owe to you and to your Proceedings the favourable judgment of Charitie so we ought to judge of those thinges which we are to sweare and subscrive with the strict and inquisitive judgement of Veritie and consequently we ought to ponder duely and to propound particularly and fully to others especially to those who requyre our Oath and Subscription and undertake to satisfie our Consciences there-anent all the doubts and reasons which make us unwilling or afrayde to give our Subscription thereunto IOHN FORBES OF CORSE Doctor and Professor of Divinitie in ABERDENE ALEXANDER SCROGIE Minister at Old ABERDENE D. D. WILLIAM LESLIE D. D. and Principall of the KINGS Colledge in Old ABERDENE ROBERT BARON Doctor and Professor of Divinitie and Minister at ABERDENE IAMES SIBBALD Doctor of Divinitie and Minister at ABERDENE ALEXANDER ROSS Doctor of Divinitie and Minister at ABERDENE THE ANSVVERES OF SOME BRETHREN OF THE MINISTERIE TO THE REPLYES Of the Ministers and Professoures of DIVINITY in ABERDENE CONCERNING THE LATE COVENANT 2. CHRON. 15. 15. And all Juda rejoyced at the Oath For they had sworne with all their heart and sought Him with their whole desire and He was found of them To the Christian READER THat you may know our Proceedings how we are brought upon the Stage and contrary to our expectation are put in Print Comming to ABERDENE on Fryday the after-noon we received the Demands of our reverend Brethren that night late and for the greater expedition without delay we returned our summarie Answeres on Saturnday at night On the LORDS Day following we desired to expresse our selves to the People in presence of the Ministerie but the Pulpits and Kirks were altogether refused and therefore in the most convenient place we could have sub dio and at such houres as were vacant from the ordinary exercises of publicke Worship we delivered our Message in the audience of many After our last Sermon towards Evening we found that our labour was not in vain in the LORD for dyverse persones of speciall note both for place and wisdome with willing heart and great readinesse of minde did publicklie put their hands to the Covenant Having the weeke following seene some parts of the Countrey where besides the Presbyteries Alforde and Deere who had subscrived before the Moderator and dyverse of the Presbyterie of ABERDENE the Presbyterie and People of Turreff after they were satisfied in some scruples did also subscrive we returned the next Saturnday to ABERDENE where finding that some others had subscrived that weeke we resolved to preach upon the morne That night we received a Replye unto which before our returne home we have made an Answere All these we desire may be unpartially considered if it shall please the LORD that any light shall come from our Labour unto thy Minde let it bee asâ—ryved not unto us who neither had time nor helps for such a taske but to the brightnesse of the Trueth and Cause it selfe and to the Father of Lights to whome be all Glorie To our Reverend Brethren The Doctors and Ministers of Aberdene THat our Answeres reverend and beloved Brethren have not given you full satisfaction as it may be imputed to our weaknesse in the defence of so good a cause so it may proceed also from your own prejudice against what could be said by us which we have some reason to suspect for two causes one is that your Demands which we conceived to have been intended meerly for us and were sent unto us from you in write were published before our comming in Print like as ye have now printed and published your Replies before ye had seen our Answeres unto that which we received from you last in write we having promised to the bearer to returne an Answere shortly ere we departed the Countrey This may seem rather to be a seeking of victory from prejudice then a search of veritie for satisfaction The other cause of our suspicion is that the groundes of our Answeres to you have proven satisfactorie to others who for Age and gifts of Learning and Understanding are pryme men in this Kirke and Kingdome and to whom modestly will not suffer you to preferre your selves But whether our weaknesse or your prejudice be the cause must be now judged by others to whose view ye have brought us whom therefore we with you heartilie desire unpartially to consider our first and second Answeres wishing and hoping that partiality prejudice and all worldly respects and feares laide aside the naked Trueth shall
joine with us in subscâ—iving are not yet answered for first a sound interpretation of the Covenant although proceeding from a private person and altogether voide of externall Authority can not make a substantiall difference and if the interpretation be unsound although it were confirmed by Authority it maketh not a substantiall coincidence 2. Why is it denyed that the former Covenant containeth mutuall defence since all are obliedged thereby to deâ—end Religion according to their vocation and power and the KINGS person and Authority which can not possiblie be done without mutuall defence and since that clause of the Covenant is so expounded and applied upon grounds of perpetual reason in the general Band drawn up Printed by Authority An. 1590. 3. Ye must either prove this Covenant to be substantially different from the former which is impossible or ye must acknowledge this to have the same Authority with the former since we are really obliedged in the former Covenant and virtually the same warrand of KING Counsell and assemblie remaineth and was never yet discharged by vertue whereof the Covenant might have beene renewed yearly by all the subjects of the Kingdome no lesse then it hath beene subscrived yearly by such as passe degrees in Colledges and such as were suspect of Papistrie from time to time 4. What was done by his Majesties Commissioner was noâ— done in a corner that it needeth to be pryed into or doubted of and what was allowed by his Grace who had so great power from his Majesty to declare his Majesties will and to receive Declarations from his subjects and who was in every poynt so zealous and tender of his Majesties service and honour who are ye that it should be dissallowed by you Ye will have the Kingdome guilty of combination against Authority and will not have the KING to be satisfied when they have declared themselves to the contrary and their Declaration is accepted by his Majesties Commissioner This manner of dealing is more sutable to Papists and such Incendaries then for you who desire to prove good Patriots in using all means of Pacification 5. We are sory that ye should be the first who have accounted our Covenant to be a confederacie against the Trueth since some of your selves and all every where have been constrained to acknowledge that they aime â—t the same end with us to maintaine the Trueth And for that which displeaseth you in our way that we deale after such a manner with people to come in we answere that we have seen in this Land the Day of the LORDS Power wherein his people have most willingly offered themselves in multitudes like the dew of the morning that others of no small Note have offered their subscriptions and have been refused till tyme should try that they joine in sincerity from love to the cause and not from the feare of men and that no threatnings have been used except of the deserved judgement of GOD nor force except the force of reason from the high respects which we owe to Religion to our KING to our native Countrey to our selves and to the Posterity which hath been to some a greater constraint then any externall violence and we wish may prevaile also with you To the Second VVEE perceive that ye passe in silence that which we answered concerning the preventing of trouble which by all appearance had been too sensible to many before this time if the Conventions censured by you had not been kept we desire that ye would here declare your selves whether ye would have rather received the Service Booke Booke of Canons and other trash of that kind tending to the subversion of Religion and to the prejudice of the Liberties of the Kingdom then to have conveened in a peaceable manner to present Supplications to his Majestie for averting of so great evils Neither doe ye speak a word of the saying of K. Iames which ought to be regarded both for the witnesse sake who is of so great authority and for the testimony which containeth so great reason For shall not the whole body of a Kingdom stirre pro aris focis or shall our Religion be ruined and our Light be put out and all men holde their peace We told you also that the first part of the Act of Parliament 1585 is relative to another Act in Queen Maries time which specifieth what sort of Leagues and Bands are forbidden and setteth us free from the breach of the Act but yee have answered nothing to this and still dispute from the Act of Parliament rather then from other grounds better beseeming your Profession and ours and in this will so precisely adhere to the letter of the Law that you will have no meetings without the KINGS consent even in the case of the preservation of Religion of his Majesties Authority and of the liberties of the Kingdome which we are sure must be contrary to the reason and life of the Law since the safetie of the People is the Soveraigne Law Although it be true also that for our Covenant we have the consent of Authority pressing upon all the subjects in the generall Band and confession of Faith formerly subscrived for maintenance of the Religion their subscription and Oath as a note of their soundnesse in Religion and of their loyaltie and fidelitie to the KING and his Crown wherein Iurisconsults more skilled in this kinde then we need to be have given their Responses and Verdicts in favours of us and of our cause 2. The poynt touching Authority is so full of Thornes and Rockes useth to be so vehemently urged to procure envye against the Gospell of CHRIST and can so hardly be disputed and discussed except in a large Treatise to the satisfaction of Kings and Kingdomes and all having interest that for the present we only wish you to heare the testimonies of two grave Divynes the one is Whittaker in his Answere to Master Reynolds preface pag. 6. Stirres and Tumults for matter of Religion Reynold rehearseth that hath been in Germanie France Bohemia as though it were sufficient for their condemnation that they once resisted and did not by and by admit whatsover violence was offered either to GODS Trueth or to themselves contrary to Promise to Oath to publicke Edicts to Law whereby they were warranded to doe as they did more of this matter will I not answere being of another nature and cleared long since from the cryme of Rebellion not only by just defence of their doeing but also by the Proclamations and Edicts of Princes themselves The other is Bilson in his Booke of Christian subjecton in defence of the Protestants in other Countreys against the objection of the Iesuit Pag. 332. affirming that subjects may defend their ancient and Christian liberties covenanted and agreed upon by those Princes to whom they first submitted themselves and were ever since confirmed and allowed by the Kings that have succeeded they may requyre their own right save their own lives beseech that
they be not used as slaves but like subjects like men not like beasts that they may be convented by Lawes before judges not murdered in corners by Inqusitors This is also the judgement of Rivetus in his Commentarie Psal. 68. which being looked upon by you will furnish a full answere to what ye have cited at length from his Iesuita Vapulans For betwixt Jesuiticall treasonable and pernitious doctrine and practises against Princes and Magistrats refuted by him and the loyall and sound doctrine of Protestants your selves know the difference and opposition like as it is cleare as the Sunne by that short Confession by the Application thereof to the times in this present Confession by our publicke Protestation and by the Declaration exhibited to his Majesties Commissioner that we meane not only mutuall concurrence and asistance in the cause of Religion but also to the uttermost of our power to defend the KINGS Majestie his Person and Authority We would be glade that ye and others were witnesses to our private Prayers and the most secret of our thoughts and affections concerning our loyaltie to our dread Soveraigne so should ye either cease to write in this sort against us or be forced to write against your own Consciences 3. When we justifie our Conventions and Covenants from their purposed ends we meane not only the last and most remote ends but the nearest and immediate and if nothing in these can merite just censure the Conventions and Covenants no more in that which ye call the Object nor in their ends can be culpable what Aspersions have been put upon our Reformation and Reformers by the malice of our Adversaries can not be unknown to you But we wish that your engynes and penns may be better imployed then to joine with them in so bad a cause which we expect also from your prudence considering the people and place where ye live To the Third YEE doe well and wisely that ye search not curiously into the myndes of Princes and Reasons of State but whether all his Majesties subjects be satisfied with the last Proclamation needeth no deep search For although possiblie some had been more pleased with a Proclamation commanding the Service Booke such especially who neither will see no errours in it or have publickly professed that they have been groaning for it yet the Protestation of the Supplicants against it as it giveth most humble and hearty thanks to His gracious Majestie for what is granted so it testifieth upon undenyable evidences that the Proclamation is not a satisfaction of our just desires for first the Proclamation supposeth the Service Booke to be no Innovation of Religion 2. That it is not contrary to the Protestant Religion 3. That the Proclamation giveth not order for discharging all the Acts made in favours of the Service Booke especially that of the 19 of February which giveth unto it so high Approbation as serving for mantaining the true Religion and to beat out all Superstition and no wayes to be contrary to the Lawes of this Kingdom but to be compyled and approved for the universall use and edification of all His Majesties Subjects 4. It is so farre from disallowing the said Booke that it putteth us in feare that it shall be prest in a faire and legal way and therefore notwithstanding the Proclamation the necessity of Covenanting which containeth nothing contrary to the Acts of Parliament nor to the duety of good Subjects but is the largest Testimony of our Fidelity to GOD and loyaltie to our KING whatsoever it may seem to you to import doeth yet continue that His Majestie may be pleased to grant the full satisfaction of our reasonable Petitions and that our Religion and Liberties may be preserved for afterwards Whosoever professe themselves to be perfectly satisfied with the Proclamation doe proclaim in the ears of all the Kingdom that they are better pleased with the Service Booke and Canons then with the Religion as it hath beene professed in this Land since the Reformation To the Fourth VVEE were assured that your Demand proceeded from a Mistaking and therefore according to our knowledge did ingenuously for your satisfaction expound unto you the minde of the Subscrivers but finde now that we have laboured in vain at your hands from which we have received this Reply unto which concerning the first Miss-interpretation we answere 1. That although we doe neither use threatnings nor obtrude our Interpretation upon you as bearing any obligatory Power yet pardon us that we march you not and put you not in the Ballance with the greatest part of the Kingdom both Ministers and others in whose name we recommend this Interpretation unto you by all faire Means and force of Reason and in so doing wee are so farre from the breach of our Solemne Vow and Promise that we esteeme this to be no small proofe of that godlinesse and righteousnesse wherein we are bound by our Covenant to walke 2. The autoriâ—ative judgement of our Reformers and Predicessors is evidenced not onely by the Confession of Faith ratified in Parliament but also by the Books of Discipline Acts of Generall Assemblies and their own Writs wherein if ye will ye may find warrâ—nd for this Interpretation and in respect whereof it is publick ratione medii besides those midses of Scripture of Antiquity and of the Consent of the Reformed Kirks which are named for midses by you Concerning the 2 Missconstruction it is no marvell that Prejudices and Preconceived Opinions possessing the minde make men to fall upon Interpretations of their own but in the South parts of the Kingdom where many learned and judicious men both Pastors and Professors were assembled at the first subscriving thereof we remember of none that did fall into that Misstake And the two sorts of Novations such as are already introduced and such as are supplicated against are so punctually distinguished that there is no place left to Ambiguitie but on the contrary the Novations which we promise to forbeare for a time onely cannot be supposed in the following words to be abjured for ever as Popish Novations 2. Upon a new examination of the words ye perceive that the Articles of Pearth and Episcopacy are condemned as erronious Corruptions because we promise to labour to recover the former purity libertie of the Gospell unto which our Answere is that it appeareth that you will have all the Covenanters against their intention and whether they will or not to disallow and condemn the Articles of Pearth and Episcopall Government lest they be tryed in a Generall Assembly but it is knowne to many hundreds that the words were purposelie conceived for satisfaction of such as were of your judgement that we might all joine in one heart and Covenant for establishing Religion and opposing Erroures And for your Argument whether the Articles of Pearth and Episcopacy be against the purity and liberty of the Gospel or not which is not determined by these words of the Covenant but
defence thereof and every one of us of another in that cause of maintaining Religion and the KINGS foresaid Authority and to appoynt and hold meetings to that end like as our Proceedings have beene in themselves most necessary and orderly means agreable to the lawes and practise of this Kirke and Kingdom to be comended as reall duties of faithfull Christians loyall subjects and sensible members of the body of the Kirke and Kingdome and tende to no other end but to the preservation of Religion and maintainance of the KINGS Authority To your interrogatoures which ye seeme to propone rather to be snares to us then for satisfaction to your selves we answere once for all in generall that if this were the opportunitie of that disputation we shall be found to deny nothing unto Authority of that which the word of GOD the law of Nature and Nations the Acts of Parliament these Royalists sound Divines and loyall Subjects give unto Kings and Princes GODS Vice-Gerents on Earth and that not from respect to our selves but to the Ordinance of GOD by whom Kings reigne But seeing so oft and so instantly you presse us in this point ye force us mutually to propone to you such Questions as it may be ye will have no great delight to answere 1. We desire to understand of you whether ye allow or disallow the Service Booke and booke of Canons if ye disallow them as an innovation of Religion why have ye not either joined in supplication with the rest of the Kingdome or made a supplication of your own against them or some other way testified your Dislike Next whether it be pertinent for men of your place and Qualitie to move Questions of State touching the Power of Princes and Liberties of Subjects after His Majesties Commissioner and wise States-men have received Satisfaction of the Subjects for suppressing such motions as yours 3. Whether doe the Subscrivers more tender His Majesties honour by supposing his constancy in profession of Religion and equitable Disposition in ministration of Justice or ye who suppose he shall fall upon his Religious and Loyall Subjects with force of Armes contrary to both 4. Whether the joyning of the whole Kingdom in the Subscription of the Covenant or the entertaining of Division by your writing preaching and threatning of your People otherwise willing to joine be a more readie meane to settle the present Commotions of the Kirke and Kingdom 5. If the Prelates and their Followers labouring to introduce Popery in the Land make a Faction by themselves or as the Guisians in France did abuse His Majesties name in execution of the bloody Decrees of Trent which GOD forbid we aske Whether in such a Case the lawfull defence of the body of the Kingdom against such a Faction be a resisting of the Magistrate and a taking Armes against the KING If ye affirme it to be is not this to take part with a Faction seeking their own ends against the common-wealth of the Kirke and Kingdom and honour of the KING If ye say not Why then sinde ye fault with our Protestation of defending the Religion Liberties and Lawes of the Kingdom of the Kings Authority in defence thereof and every one of us of another and in that cause as if it were an unlawfull Combination against Authority 6. Whether doe ye think Christian Magistrats to be of so absolute unbounded power notwithstanding of any promise or paction made with the Subjects at their Coronation or of any Law made for establishing their Religion and Liberties that there is nothing left but suffering of Marâ—yrdome in the case of publick Invasion of their Religion and Liberties If ye thinke that any defence is lawfull why misconstrue yee the Subscrivers of the Covenant If not how can ye be free of Flattery and of stirring up Princes against their loyall Subjects for such ends as your selves know best We verily believe that ye shall report small thanks either of so good and just a KING or of so duetifull Subjects for entering within these Lists It is enough that such Questions be agitated in the Schooles and that with as great prudency and as circumspectly as may be To the Tenth FIrst ye take us in our fourth Replye to be the penners of the Covenant and yet will rather wrest the words of it to your owne meaning then receive the Interpretation thereof from us for wee prejudge not your liberty of conception of that short Confession but permit it to your selves whatsoever may be the private meaning of some who have subâ—crived yet there is nothing in the late Interpretation that câ—ndemneth the Articles of Pearth and Episcopacy as Popish Novations Ye may voice and reason in an Assemblie as freely concerning them and give your judgement of them without prejudice notwithstanding of your Oath according to your own grounds as you would have done at the Assembly of Pearth 2. We hopâ— ye be not so ignorant of the estate of the Kirke neither will we judge so uncharitably as to thinke you so corrupt that in your opinion there is nothing hath entred in the Kirke since that time designed by you beside Episcopacy and the Articles of Pearth which can be thought prejudiciall to the Liberty and Purity of the Gospell To the Eleventh FIrst ye finde fault with us that we have not upon this occasion given you that testimony which we owe to you of your sincerity in professing the trueth and therefore to supplie our defects have taken an ample Testimony to your selves of paines in disputing in wrytting and preaching against Popery in processing of Papists and in doing all thinges which can be expected from the most zealous of frequent prayer to GOD of humbling your selves before him of your holinesse of Life and Conversation c. which have made us who were desirous to heare that Testimony rather at the mouths of others that we might be no more challenged as deficient in that kinde but give unto you your deserved praise to inquire in matters whereupon if we would believe the report of others wee heare that for all your pains Papists and Persons Popishly affected are multiplied and Papistry increased in your towne more then in any other town of the Kingdom no lesse under your Ministrie then any time before since the Reformation that there be in private houses Messes Crucisixes and other monuments of Idolatry that ye have not many converts from Popery that Jesuits and Priests are countenanced there that your People at home and your Magistrats abroad complain that ye are but too sparing of your pains in preaching and often fill your places with Novices but this we are sparing to believe and wish that the not imploying of your Tongues and Pennes in the defence of the Service Booke and Canons which are so pestred with Popery if the seeds of Romish Heresie Superstition Idolatry and Papall tiranny come under that censure and your willingnesse to joyne with the Kirke and Kingdom
in regarde of the Oath of GOD Eccles. 8. 2. And that we should be subject not only for wrath but also for conscience sake because the powers that be are ordained of GOD whosoever therefore sayeth S. Paul resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of GOD And they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation Rom. 13. In the words of the Apostle S. Paul there is a remarkable opposition betwixt subjection and resistance 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 implying that all militarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whether defensive or offensive if it be against the superiour Power which GOD hath set over us is forbidden In like manner we reade Matth. 26. 52. that all they that take the Sword shall perish with the Sword Now certaine it is that in a free Monarchie Subjects have not the Sword from GOD except by the hand of the KING to whom only GOD hath immediately given it And therefore whosoever taketh the Sword without his warrand hath just reason to feare the foresaid warning of our SAVIOVR Many other places of Scripture might be adduced to this purpose which for brevity we omit and doe proceed in the next rowme to some testimonies of ancient Fathers and other writers 10. Tâ—rtullian in his Apologeticke chap. 30. and 33. and 37. telleth vs that the ancient Christians in his time although having aâ— heathen and persecuting Emperour did honour him as chosen of God and second from GOD and first after GOD and did choose rather to suffer then to make resistance by force of Armes although they lacked not number and strength to doe it 11. The like example have we in that renowned Thebean Legion of 6666 Christian Souldiers called Agaunenses from the place of their suffering who without making resistance as they had strength of hand to have done suffered themselves rather to be slain for their Christian profession by the Officers of Maximian the Emperour executors of his cruell commandement against them This fell out in the 18 yeare of Diocletian as Ado Viennensis writeth in his Chronicle which was the yeare of GOD 297 as Cardinall Baronius reckoneth in his Annalls And of that their Christian cowrage and pious resolution Venantius Fortunatus an ancient Bishop of Poictiers hath left unto us these Encomiasticke lynes in the second book of his Poems Biblioth Patr. Tom. 8. Edit 4. Pag. 781. Queis positis gladiis sunt armaè dogmate Pauli Nomine pro CHRISTI dulcius esse mori Pectore belligero poterant qui vincere ferro Invitant jugulis vulnera chara suis. 12. Gregorie Nazianzen in his first Oration speaking of the persecution by Iulian the Apostate when the Christians were moe in number and stronger in might of hand to have made open resistance if they had in their consciences found it agreable to their Christian profession declareth plainly that they had no other remedy against that persecution but patient suffering for Christ with gloriation in Christ. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 13. S. Ambrose having received imperiall commandement to deliver the sacred Houses or Churches to be possessed by the Arians declareth what he thought convenient to be done in such a case to wâ—t neither to obey in that which he could not performe with a good conscience noâ— yet to resist by force of Armes His wordes to the people Conâ—ione 1. contra Auxentium are these Why then are ye troubled I shall never willingly leave you If I be compelled I can not gain-stand I may be sory I may weep I may sigh Against Armes Souldiers the Gothes also my Teares are Armes For such are the Guardes of a Priest Otherwise I neither ought nor may resist And in the second book of his Epistles and 14 Epistle to his Sister Marcellina speaking of that same purpose he sayeth I shall not fortifie my selfe with a multitude of people about me We beseech O Emperour we fight not I may not deliver the Church but I ought not make resistance 14. Such also was theÌ„ doctrine and practise of many other great Lights which shined in the dayes of Iulian the Apostate and in the dayes of the Arrian Emperoures and Gothicke Arrian Kings 15. S. Augustine writing of a lawfull Warre acknowledgeth that only to be lawfull which hath authority from the Prince For it is much to be regarded sayeth he for what causes and by whose authority men undertake Warres But that naturall order which is accommodated to the peace of mortall men requireth this that the authority and counsell of undertaking warre be in the power of the Prince 16. The imperiall Lawes doe say the same ff Ad legem Iuliam majestatis Leg. 3. Eadem lege tenetur qui injussu Principis bellum gesserit delectumvâ— habuerit exâ—rcitum comparaverit Et Cod. ut armorum usus inscio Principe interdictus sit Nulli prorsus nobis insciis atque inconsultis quorum libet armorum movendorum copia tribuatur These are the words of the Emperoures Valentinian and Valens Et Cod. de â—e militari Leg. 13. Nemo miles Nemo miles vel sibi vacet vel aliena obsequia â—e nutu principali peragere audeat c. 17. Bodin in his first Book de Republica Cap. 10. Num. 155 and 156. Pag. 244. Edit Latin 4. Ursell Anno 1601. reckoneth among the proper rights of Majesty the right and power to make Warre and this he showeth to appertain in a free Monarchie to the Prince onely 18. To this meaning sayeth Peter Martyr As concerning the efficient cause it is certain that Warre may not be made without the authority of the Prince For Paul sayeth that he beareth the Sword therefore he may give it to whome he willeth and may take it from whome he willeth Loc. Com. Class 4. Cap. 16. § 2. And a little after to wit § 7. he reciteth and commendeth a saying of Hostiensis to the same purpose 19. Calvin in the fourâ—h Book of his Institutions in the last Chapter of that Book disputeth the Question at length and by many strong Arguments evinceth and concludeth that it is nowise lawfull for Subjects to resist their Prince by force of Armes whether the Prince be godly and just or ungodly and unjust in his conversation and commandements and that nothing remaineth to Subjects in such a case but to obey or suffer Where understand that Fleing is a sort of Suffering Neither are his words subjoined in the 31 Sect. to wit I speake alwise of private men c. contrary to this For first Calvin in this Dispute indifferently useth the names of private men and Subjects And therefore in the 22 Sect. at the beginning of it he termeth those of whose duety he disputeth Subjects And indeed whosoever is a Subject is also in respect of the supream Ruler a private man Although Magistrats who are under the KING be publick persons in respect of their Inferiours yet being considered with relation to him that is Supream 1. Pet. 2. 13.
repugnant to our reformed Religion or forbidden by our publick Lawes for these Articles are not of this sort Those of them which we call necessary the Assembly of Pearth did not conclude as indifferent as ye alleadge neither can any such thing be inferred from the words of the Acts of that Assembly Therefore we have no reason to change this opinion as ye would have us to doe We hold all the five points to be lawfull and laudable and some of them more then indifferent which also the words of the Synod it self doe imply so that without just reason it hath pleased you to say that things formerly indifferent are become necessary and what was but lawfull before and had much adoe to gain that Reputation is now become laudable Thus again we do plainly declare unto you that the cause of our unwillingnesse to subscrive or promise forbearance is both the commandement of Authority and also the necessity and excellency of some of the things commanded besides that we think them all lawfull and laudable What we would doe at the commandement of Authority in the forbearance of the practise of those things for the peace of the Church and Kingdom shall be declared in our Duply to your thirteenth Answere wherein ye urge this point again The VIII DUPLY. VVHereas ye doe remit the Reader to your former Answere and our Reply we also remit him thereto and to our first Duply hoping that he shall rest satisfied therewith 2. We have in those places answered your Argument concerning your swearing the defence of the KING and his Authority with a specification as ye call it and have shown that what hath not been looked to so narrowly in this matter heretofore is requisite now for the reasons expressed in our eight Reply and first Duply Concerning the full expression of the loyalty of your intentions to mantain the KINGS Person and honour whether or not ye have given just satisfaction to those who are nearest to the KINGS Majesty as ye say we referre you and the Readers to that which ye and they will find near the end of our first Duply We wonder greatly ye should affirme that we by craving resolution doe wrong the KING and our selves or that ye by giving of it should wrong them who are nearest his Majestie and also the Covenant and the subscrivers thereof For our requiring of resolution in this matter of so great importance is a pregnant Argument of our loyalty towards our dread Soveraigne and of our care to have alwise our own consciences voide of offence towards GOD and towards Men. And your giving of satisfaction unto us would have served for farther clearing of your Covenant and the subscriptions thereof Your pretence that by giving us satisfaction ye should wrong them who are nearest his Majesty is grounded upon a wrong supposition as if they had already received satisfaction by your Declaration 3. GOD is witnesse we doe not wittingly and willingly multiply doubts for hindring a good worke or to oppose against a shining light as ye would have the Reader to thinke of us but in all humility and uprightnesse of heart doe declare our minde and doe intimate our unaffected scruples And we thinke it very pertinent at this time to crave resolution of them and to desire your answere concerning this maine duety which is not fully expressed in your Covenant wheras a more full expression of it had been very needfull at this time 4. Lastly Whereas ye complaine that we took not sufficient notice of you while ye were amongst us ye may easily consider that our publick charges and imployments together with the shortnesse of the time of your abode here doe sufficiently vindicate us from any imputation of neglect in that kinde and our doores were not closed if it had pleased you in Brotherly kindenesse to have visited us which we ought rather to have expected of you seeing ye came undesired to the place of our Stations to deal with us and also to deal with our people against our will before we had received satisfaction The IX DUPLY. AS ye doe referre the Reader to your former Answers so doe we referre him to our former Replyes and Duplyes 2. The meaning of the Act of the Assembly of Pearth citing the wordes of the Psalm 95. is not as ye doe interpret it any perverting of the Text neither tendeth it to inferr thereupon absolute necessity of kneeling in all worshipping of GOD or in this part of his Worship in the celebration of the holy Communion but only to inserr the lawfullnesse and commendable decency of kneeling in divyne worship and that it is such a gesture as our lawfull superiours may enjoine to be used in GODS worship and that religious adoration and kneeling is to be done to GOD only although they sin not who use another gesture where this is not required by Authority but another appointed or permitted 3. We doe not kneel before the Sacramentall Elements making them the object of our Adoration either mediate or immediate neither doeth the Act of Pearth Assembly import any such thing But all our Adoration both outward and inward is immediately directed to GOD only with Prayer and thanksgiving at the receiving of so great a benefite Wherefore your objecting of Idolatry against us here and in your other Treatises is most unjust We marvell also how ye doe here refer us to those Treatises which in your twelfth Answer ye seem to disclaime finding fault that any of us should lay hold on them or build any thing upon them As likewise ye here alleadge that the Assembly of Pearth made Kneeling necessary in all points of GODS Worship and consequently in receiving the holy Eucharist not remembering that in your seventh Answere ye said the Assembly had concluded the five Articles as indifferent 4. Concerning the Service-Book which now is not urged we have already answered Neither find we any reason of your uncharitable construction of us or of the disposition of the people as if they were now become superstitious Nor doeth this time give any just cause of such feares as are sufficient to overthrow the reasons of that Act of Pearth Assembly 5. We did not in malice but in love say that such a defence as ye professe here according to your Protestation and such meetings and conventions doe require the KINGS consent and Authority to make them lawfull according to our judgement whereof some reasons we have expressed before in our second Reply which as yet ye have not satisfied 6. It seemeth that ye are either not able or not willing to answere particullarly and plainly to our interrogatories proponed in our ninth Reply and we would understand some reason why ye doe so in such a free and brotherly conference seeing although ye doe otherwise interpret our meaning yet truely we did not propone them to be snares to you but to obtain satisfaction to our selves and others for a peaceable end As for your Questions which
heard to the contrary these twenty years past to cleave unto the words of the Covenant concerning such Rites as are brought into the Kirke without or against the word of GOD. The Blessing of Marriage now the second time instanced we conceive neither to be circumstance it being neither time place order of doing nor any such thing nor a Ceremony properly so called more then the Blessing of the People commanded in the Law and practised before the Law or praying for a Blessing upon the Ordinance of GOD that it may be sanctified unto His People we neither exalt Marriage so high as with the Papists to thinke it a Sacrament nor doe we abase it so low as to thinke it a paction or contract meerely Civill it being the Covenant of GOD which cannot be disolved by consent of the parties as other civill Contracts may be and therefore as we will not use it superstitiously according to the prescript of the Service Booke so will we not for the abuse of Popery although it were a Paction meerely civill it being so important with-holde Ecclesiasticke Benediction from it To the Sixth SIlence carrieth sometimes the appearance of consent sometime it is from weaknesse and since yee know also that it may at sometimes come from wisedome and moderation why doe ye not rather keepe silence your selves then make such an interpretation of ours We deny not but Divines both ancient and moderne are against us concerning the lawfulnesse of the thinges contraverted but we withall affirme first that Divines both ancient and moderne are against you also and both may be true for both are but propositions indefinite in a matter contingent 2. That almost all Divines universally are for us and for the forbearance of thinges indifferent in such a case which is the point urged by us and cleared before Secondly we deny not but the Oath containeth many other Articles but concerning that of the Novations already introduced if ye could have believed us and so many thousands as have subscrived it containeth no more but the forbearance of them for a time neither can any farther be extorted from the tenor of the Covenant it selfe according to your grounds If ye will interpret it according to the meaning which ye thought it had the last year and which we urge you not to change and to promise forbearance can neither be contrary to that duety which ye ow to your flock nor be disobedience to Authority but a meane to edifie GODS people and obedience to GOD. To the Seventh FIrst The reason propounded in the seventh Demand for refuseing your subscription because ye supposed Pearth Articles to have beene abjured as Popish is answered to the full and impediment put out of your way This other that ye propound concerning our conception and meaning of the short Confession may be as easily removed if ye will once believe that we urge not upon you our meaning but leave you to your own till the matter be examined in an Assemblie 2. Ye call some of those Novarions necessarie but without warrand of that Assembly which concluded then as indifferent and all the rest you will have to be laudâ—ble thus by progresse of time things formerly indifferent become necessary and what was but lawfull before and had much adoe to gaine that reputation is now become laudable where ye plainly discover the cause of your unwillingnesse to subscrive not so much to be the commandement of Authority as the necessity and excellency of the things commanded Till ye therefore change this opinion ye cannot promise forbearance neither upon our dealing nor at the commandement of Authority although forbearance should serve for the peace of the Kirke and Kingdome To the Eight FIrst we remit the reader to our Answere and your Reply which we hope shall be found no confutation 2. We observe that ye have not answered our Argument for our swearing the defence of the KING and his Authority with a specification which ye call a limitation wherein we have followed the Confession of Faith ratified in Parliament the KINGS Confession and act of Parliament upon which ye will not doe well to fasten so foule Imputations and put so hard constructions as ye doe upon us for inserting in our Covenant what they have said before us If our specification be right why censure you it If it be wrong why fasten ye not your censures upon the fountaine from which it is derived the loyalty of our intentions to maintain the KINGS Person and Honour is so fully expressed that it hath given content to those who are nearest his Majesty and we should wrong not only them but also the Covenant and the subscrivers thereof if we should make new Declarations to others of greater distance who wrong both the KING and themselves in craving them 3. To doe with a doubting Conscience is a grievous sinne but to make and multiply doâ—bâ—s for hindring a good worke and to oppose against a shining light is no lesse grievous Ye spake before of a limitation and now ye have added precisly as if the nâ—ming of one duety were the excluding of all other dueties We all by our Oath of Alleadgeance by his Majesties lawes and by other obligations acknowledge that we owe many other dueties to the KING which were very impertinent to expres in this Covenant 4 What kynde of conference ye meane whether by word or write we know not but while we were among you ye know what notice you were pleased to take of us and we have no delight to resent it To the Ninth FIrst We are ashamed to draw this Rug-saw of contention to and fro in a continuall Reciprocation concerning the forbearance of Pearth Articles and therefore forbearing to doe so any more we referre the Reader to our former Answeres 2. We doe not affirme that the only reason why kneeling was appointed was because all memory of superstition was past There be indeed other reasons expressed in the Act but such as the Authors thereof may be ashamed of as both perverting the Text Psal. 95. as making kneeling to be necessary in every part of GODS Worship and as giving matter to many Treatises proving kneeling before the Elements to be Idolatrie according to the Act unto which we now referre you but this we say which is manifest by the Act it selfe that in the case of present superstition or feare thereof all other reasons had not beene forcible to enforce kneeling then nor can have force to continue kneeling now This feare hath beene great this year by past throughout the Kingdom by reason of the many superstitions of the Service Booke which it may be ye no more acknowledge then ye doe the superstitious dispositioÌ„ of the people because they are not that which they were at the time of Reformation 3. We would heare what malice it selfe can say against the words of the Protestation That it shall be lawfull unto us to defend Religion and the KINGS Authority in