to haue that bâ—ougâ—t oâ—t of any Olde Catholique Doctour or Father â–ª or any Olde General Councel c What other thing is this but a Mountebankes Preface to commend his wares vnto the Audience As if he should say in plainer woordes 〈◊〉 to them 〈◊〉 beloued in the Lorde you mâ—y tâ—ke me perchaunce for a Benchwhistâ—er or a man of litle knowledge and practise and altogeather vnhable to reproue the General and Catholique Doctrine of the whole world and to draw you from those Maisters and Teachers which alwaies hitherto ye haue ben ruled â—y But I shal tel you deere brethren I haue seene and readen as much as any man yea as all the learned men aliue I haue trauailed vnto the very Primitiue Church it selfe I haue bene conuersant with Old Catholike Doctors and Fathers and old General Councels As for these Priests Cardinals and Popes whom you folowe they bring nothing but Conclusions of Scholemen and deuises of Later Doctours and Ceremonies of their owne making c. But I will bring you no other thing but that which is Auncient I wil bring you back to the Institution of Christ himself You shal haue al things ministred vnto you as they were in the time of the Apostles You shal heare God himself speake vnto you The Priestes shall robbe you no more of halfe the Sacrament You shall knowe what you heare readden in the Church Ye shal haue no Supremacie of Pope no Real Presence of Christs body in the Sacrament Ye shal be brought to Old Customes which y e Councel of Nice would haue to preuaile And Tertullian shal teach you how that is true that was first ordeined And as I saied before so say I now againe If any man aliue be hable to reproue me I will become his obedient Scholer But I know there is not one that is able to doâ— it and because I know it therefore I speake it So beginneth the Mountebanke But in further processe he is proued to be so vaine in Craking So crafty in Shifting So demure in CouÌ„terseiting So false in Affirming So desperate in Abusing of his Aduersarie of old Councels and Doctours yea and of new also that it is perceiued wel inough euen of them that say God saue you my Lorde vnto him that al is not so as he saith Neuerthelesse they haue a good sporte to see the prety Shiftes and Defenses and Scapes that the Mountebanke canne make And though it be euident that he liâ—â—h yet they thinke not these maters to be so great or necessary but men may suffer them wel inough to be mainteined how so euer it be as long as neyther Trade of Merchaundise nor Study of Temporal Law nor Pastime abrode nor Pleasure at home is hindered by it For like as we may vnderstand by the maâ—ket folkes how the market goeth So when it is in sight that in Countries and Cities of greatest policy priuate mens goodes are not without punishment touched but the Common Churches of the whole Countrie are openly spoyled And when Papistes are neither suffred to speak â–ª nor to go abrode but Caluinistes Lutherans and Anabaptistes are not only suffred to speake but to speake one against the other And in one Citie or Countrie to set furâ—h and maintaine contrary Doctrines it is easy to perceiue that The vvisedome of God is but folly emong men And that al is for Policie and nothing for Religion and that men haue so forsaken the old Faith that they are not sâ—ttled in any new And that Faith in deede is almost extinguished by to much folowing of Carnal Reason and that Reason in thousandes is vtterly blinded because thei haue put from them the Obedience vnto Faith Yet this Corruption notwithâ—tanding I haue taken some paines in â—erswading with thee Indifferent reader to BEVVARE of M. Iewel Fearng in deede least to many be so in Indifferent that they passe not whether he say true or false And praying to God that they may haue A desire to know the Trueth which as yet care not for it and that other may haue a constancie to confesse the Truth when they know it And that the rest condemne not the the Truth before they know it Farevvel From Louane Quaâ—doquidem liber hic tertius contra M. Ievvellum à viris Linguae Anglicanae Sacrae Theologiae eruditissimis probatus est iudico eum tutô posse distrahi euâ—lgari Ità testor Cunerus Petri Pastor S. Petri. Louanij 3. Nouemb. 1566 ¶ Faultes escaped in the Printing Folio Page Line Fault Correction 6. 2. 1. Latines Laâ—enesse 40. 2. 12. ye he 47. 1. 6. Degrees Decrees 63. 1. 13. Dionysi of Dionysius 63. 2. 19. them then 80. 2. 2. tel lyes to tel lies 118. 2. 14. CoÌ„staÌ„â—in Constantius 141. 2. 4. y â— visible that a visible 142. 2. 15. he coÌ„clu he were conclu 160. 2. 3. primitiue Primate 181. 2. 16. the coÌ„munioÌ„ praier the Lordes prayer 191. 1. 3. peple vn peple might vn 195. 1. 7. of old Fa. of the old Fa. 197. 1. 14. ValeÌ„tians Valentinians 206. 1. 18. Suprem Preeminence 216. 2. 27. y â— it were that if it were 217. 2. 4. ar bound are not bound Ibid.  24. How say How sayed 221. 2. 10. yet if yet it 225. 2. 11. can say can truly say 230. 2. 8. gather easily gather 234. 2. 16. Trick or two Tricke or Toy In the Margent 172. 1. for is for there is 228. 1. Iew. 21. Ioan. 21. IbideÌ„  taken out of taken of The Third Booke of BEWARE OF M. Iewel IT may seeme by my Two former Bookes y â— I haue detected as great Sophistrie Brauerie Insinceritie of M. Iewels as any man lightly that hath but worldly regarde of his Trueth and Honestie may coulourably venter to practise But in comparison of that which I haue further to obiect the forsaid behauiours may seme to be perdonable For D. Harding is but one man and the same not knowen to the whole worlde and much lesse honoured of the whole He is also his Aduersary and M. Iewel taketh him selfe to be in no point perchaunse of lesse worthinesse And if in some one or two D. Harding farre passâ—th him yet in many moe on the other side he thinketh him selfe to be better And therefore when he doth handle him at his pleasure belye him Contemne him Mocke him and Tosse him without doubting or blusshing although it be very il done yet it is not exceeding il But to despise men without al doubt worthy notable To set light by them whom the whole world hath reuereÌ„ced To interprete Lawes and Canons after his own liking To disanul general couÌ„cels To corrupt Auncient Fathers To set them vp to pul them doune againe To bring them in to thrust them againe out To binde men to the Authoritie of the first six hundred yeares To appeale to the Primitiue Church only in his own cause and to drawe his Aduersarie vnto any State of Churche
persons When our Sauiour vpon a time preached in the Synagoge of the Iewes so singularly well that all men wondred at his Doctrine Hovv cummeth this felovve sayed they by all this lerning Is not this he that is the Carpenter the sonne of Mary the brother of Iames and Ioseph Are not his sisters also here dvvelling vvith vs As who should say We know his bringing vp well inough And therefore he is not so greatly to be wondered at Such is the Iudgment of carnall men euen vnto this day They measure Truthes by their Imaginacions And set a great Price on thinges that are farther out of their reach Contemning as good or better than those thinges are when they are easy to be found or alwaies present Which thing If it come of the Misery of our Nature it is to be lamented and the Remedie is to be sought for of hym which therefore toke our whole Nature synne excepted vpon him that by partaking thereof we might be purged of our sinne and Corruption If it come of the Foly of any deintines it is in some parsons to be reproued with fauor like as Children and Women are much to be borne withall in respect of their weakenesse and frailtie If it come of lacke of better Instruction Or dulnesse of vnderstanding as in the Rude and Simple of the Countrie they are to be warned as well as we may and for the rest to be â—raied for and tolerated If it come of some Pride Spite or Contention it is to be condemned and hated what so euer the person be But in M. Iewel whereof may I thinke that this Affection doth come of which I speake For you also in defining of euerlasting Trueth by Terme of yeares doe seeme to haue a spice of their disease which coutemne the good things that are nigh vnto them Shall I Impute this faule vnto the generall Miserie of our nature which was corrupted in our first Parentes God sende you theâ— Grace to resist euill motions And for this which you haue already done Repent and be sory But came it of a certaine wantones or niceues in you that as Childerne craue Dis peece or Dat peece of one and the self same meat or bread Or women loue far-fet and deere bought thinges so you will not be serued but with the Testimonies and Authorities of the firste six hundred yeres of our Lord Truely if it be so you can not loke for the Fauor that childerne and Women haue in their Infirmities Will you haue it then to be attributed vnto lacke of Lerning Or plaine Dulnesse that you are so blinde and blunt as to set at naught the Practise and Euidencies of the Catholike Church for nine hundred yeres togeather It seemeth no because the Opinion vndoubtedlye which your predecessours of late had of their owne Iudgment Knowledge and Wittinesse moued them especially to refuse the Generall and Approued Faith of the world And so I beleue they lacked no wit but only Grace and they were to wise to be Obedient and Faithful How now then Was it any Sprite of Malice or Contention that caused you to rest vpon the first six hundred yeres only that the further you went out of sight you might the more boldly shewe â—oule play Maintaine the quarell Make the victory vncertaine And trouble the lookers on If it be not so we shal easely beleue you if you shew any good Cause or Reason wherefore you haue appealed vnto the first six hundred yeres And so appealed vnto them not as the best time to finde witnesses in but as the only time neither as Preferring those Daies but as Condemning ours But let vs first see the Examples by which your fact and behauioure herein may be Euident And then after we shal the better consider it whether you haue any reason or no to make for you And what by likelihode was the cause which moued you Leontius Bishop of Nicopolis wrot the life of Ioannes Eleemosinari ' an holy man of the first six hundred yeres after Christ. Why should I not beleue Leontius Mary he wrote say you A great while after that And what of that Is S. Bedes History of the cumming of S. Augustine the Monke into England to be discredited because S. Bede began to wryte a great while after S. Augustine was departed this world Or because the next six hundred after Christ were much passed when he wrote it Are the bokes of Genesis in any poynt to be doubted of because they declare the beginning of the world and Actes Dated two thousand yeres before Moyses the wryter of them was borne Yet sayeth M. Iewel against Leontius This one Circumstance of his Latines answeareth the matter wholy And in the margine he geaueth a speciall note M. Harding rangeth without the cumpasse of six hundred yeres Vrbanus Regius a Doctor of Luthers Schoole confesseth in his boke De locis Communibus that in the first Councel of Ephesus an Order was taken for Communion vnder one kinde which he being a Lutherane would neuer haue wryten if he had not found it in some Auncient Record and worthy of credite But Vrbanus Regius say you departed this life not aboue .xx. yeres a goe and therefore is a very yong witnesse to testify a thing done so long time before In deede to testifye it as of certaine sight or knowledge it were hard for so young a witnesse but to testify it as of good Historie and Authoritie it is possyble inough for them which are .xx. yeres younger What shall we thinke of S. Bernard A man not only in his own time of most worthy Estimation and Authoritie but in all the Church euer sence of singular Credite and worthinesse If he were now aliue emong vs And might be seen and heard sensibly would there be found in all the world any man of Honestie or Discretion which considering his Holinesse Wisedome and Grauitie would thinke him A witnesse of litle weight and worthinesse Yet Father Iewel sayeth as though he had bene a Reader of Diuinitie when S. Bernard was yet but A Nouiâ—e in the Faith S. Bernard calleth the washing of feete a Sacrament I graunt But S Bernard was a Doctour but of late yeres and therefore his Authoritie must herein weigh the lesser Was he of so late yeres as Luther Zuinglius Caluine Peter Martir and other Greate Anceters of your new Religion Why dothe not the latenesse of these felowes offend you Why think you the xij C. yeres after Christ to be so farre and wide from his Trueth that no certaintie thereof maye be taken in them And Conclude Determine Protest and Defend that to be Sure and Autentike which riseth xv C. and some odde yeres after Christ Of the like kinde of Imaginacion and Answer it is where you say Lyra and Teâ—tonicus Lyued at the least thirtene hundred yeres after Christe wherefore their Authoritie in this Case must Needes
seeme the lesse No remedy M. Iewel hath so appointed Againe Bessarions Authoritie in this case can not seeme greate bothe for other sundry causes which you leaue And Also which must needes be a good cause and not forgoten for that he liued at the least fourtene hundred yeres after Christ. And againe Pope Nicolas was the second Bishop in Rome after Pope Iohane the Woman Note here that Other men recken from S. Peter downeward this man compteth from Pope Iohane An English woman as the reporter of the tale sayth borne at Magunce in Germany Which was almost nine hundred yeres after Christ. Wherfore his Authoritie might well haue bene spared Thus we see then by manifest Examples the exact Accompt that you make of the first six hundred yeres after Christ As though the whole Truthe of A mater were lost if it come to knowledge any long time after the thing was done Let vs consider now Whether any honest Cause and Reason may be alleaged for your so doing Or whether you did it without cause Or els were sturred vp with some vnlawfull Affection and Reproâ—eable Cause And here now take no skorne M. Iewel if I appose you in a few Questions For either you be hable to Answer them and that shall be to your worship either not Answering them you shall occasyon Trueth therby to be knowen And that shall be to Gods glorie and the Cumfort of the doubtfull Surely if it were to my selfe and if so much might be obtained that I should be Answered in some One thing thoroughly and be bid to choose out of all that which I haue to demaunde that One thing which seemeth strongest agaynst my Aduersary and surest of the Catholikes I would be glad of the Occasion and all other maters quite and cleane put to Silence I would speake of these fewe poyntes which folow And either wythout more wordes holde my peace If in them I were satisfied Or requâ—re that our Aduersaries neuer trouble their hearers or Readers any further with other conclusions before these fâ—we questions were Answered Therefore I pray the Indifferent Reader to consider thys plaâ—e which foloweth though thou Reade no more of all the Booke First I aske of you M Iewel whether you haue any Faith at all or no If you haue none what meddle you with any Religion except it be for Ciuil Policie sake For which to doe as you doe though it would proue you lesse mad or vnreasonable yet should you be for lacke of Faith as deade in soule and as Godlesse as any Infidel in al the world If ye haue any how came you by it for we are not borne Christians but Regenerate neither doe we receiue faith by Nature but by Teaching And faith is by hearing sayeth the Apostle Of whome then haue you heard and lerned your Faith Of them that liued and died before you were borne Or of such as preached and taught in the world sens your selfe were of remembrance If you lerned of the first how could they teache without A tongue Or how could you heare without an care For they were now deade in body and cleane dissolued and you were not yet made of body and soule nor had any instruments of senses If you lerned of the Quicke and Liuing your self also quicke and liuing were those your Teachers of such Authoritie with you that you submitted your senses and vnderstanding to theyr iudgment Or examined you by your selfe their Doctrine and Sayinges If you the Scholer did iudge of the Master you were without all doubt a Malapert and Folishe Scholer Malapert because you would breake order and proudly goe before him whome you ought meekly to haue folowed And Folishe because in maters of Faith of which we now speake all Wit and Reason of man is altogeather vnworthy and vnable to Iudge of that which is Proponed If you then folowed their Authoritie and submitted your vnderstanding and will vnto their Doctrine without Mouing or Mistrusting any doubt about it VVhat were they in all the world vnto whome you gaue such credite I aske you not this question for the time of your Childhode in which though true Faith be Habitually in them that are Baptised yet there is not that Discretion or Consideration by which they may returne their mindes vpon theyr ownâ— actes Or put a difference betwene their GraÌ„dmothers tale of Bloudy bone Raw head Bloudelesse and Ware woulf and the Churches Doctrine of Hell and the Deuill But I speake now as to one that hath Understanding and knowledge of his owne state And Experience of many thinges And Lerning inough for the purpose And such a one whose part and profession it is to be able to geaue a good Cause and Reason for the Faith and Religion which he foloweth Of you therefore I aske what Authority that was Or is which moued you to be and continue A Christian Here you must not say vnto me that you considered the wrytinges of the Fathers of the first six hundred yeres And that you gaue your minde to Reading of the Scriptures c. For what so euer such tale yoâ— tell me it will alwaies remaine to be Answered of you what Instruction or Authoritie that was which either Taught you Or 〈◊〉 you to esteeme those Auncient Doctors of the Christian Religion Or these Scriptures of which you make your self so certaine For by your selfe you could no more know the difference betwene Writers and Writers or true Scriptures and lying Fables than A Blinde man caÌ„ iudge of Colours Or a Stranger know the right way in A Wildernesse or he Rede that knoweth no letter on the booke You are not I am sure wiser thaÌ„ S. Augu. Neither haue you better thought vpoÌ„ these maters than he did He saith of himself y â— concerning the Faith which he had in Christ. He savv himselfe to haue beleued none but the established opinion of Peoples Nations and the very Common and renoumed Fame of him Than which cause if you can geue any better it is time y â— you shew it As for vs neither we finde any like And we neede not be ashamed to be perswaded by it which moued S. Augustine him selfe to come vnto Christ. And I think verely that neither you studying neuer so much for it can bring any so perswasible a Reason why you beleued Christ as this is that So many Nations and peoples of the world doe beare witnesse to him For this is so Great and so Stronge to induce vs into Faith that we should not now be desirous of visible Miracles for Prouing Or Confirming of it S. Augâ—stine moste wisely and Reasonably warning vs Quisquis adhuc prodigia vt credat inquirit magnum est ipse prodigium Qui MVNDO CREDENTE non credit VVho so euer doth yet seeke after Straunge and vvonderfull thinges to make him beleue he is himselfe a straunge felovv or Greate
hard to his charge and there was but two poore places betweene me and the victorie which although he hath ouer me yet it shal not be saied that I lost it easely and he shal not crake or triumph that he came lightly by it Confer now this Example with M. Iewels forsaied wordes The place is before thee and being so plaine as it is it greueth me to spend time in Repeâ—ing and Applying it But M. Iewel goeth further he will not leaue so much as one yeres vantage to D. Harding For If Marianus Scotus accompt be true Note here that you know not your selfe what to answer absolutely then M. Harding reserueth not one yere to himself but yeldeth me backe altogeather Goe to M. Iewel be it so Let D. Harding geaue â—uer all other vantage and let it be supposed which yet is most false that he had brought nothing for the profe of the Publike Seruice in the Uulgare Tonge biside this Historye of S. Augustines planting the Christian Religion in England Thus much only then is concluded y â— iust in the vj. C. yere after Christ what so euer it was before The Publike Seruice was in some place in such a tongue as the vulgare people did not vnderstande And what now shall we say to it Where is the Uictorye On your side or D. Harding But first it would be knowen whether you at the beginning did take the vj. C. yeres Exclusiue or Inclusiue And whether you meant that if to the last day of the six hundred yere any thing should be founde against you you would subscribe Or els that if your Aduersaries Reason were not of an higher Date than the first day of the last yere of the vj. hundred you would vtterly refuse it Well how so euer it be it seemeth now that it is but a deade victorie Or a Stale and that he which will checke M. Iewel must begin againe If Marianus Scotus accompt be true â–ª c. As on the other side if it be false then is he ouercummed by four pore yeres yet as he termeth theÌ„ But consider now Indifferent Reader whether this be manly Dealing or no To refuse the Authoritie that is at this present in the world To set light by the Practise and Iudgement of the Church for ix hundred yeres space To pare euery thing so precisely by the firste six hundred yeres that If it be but a daie longer it must be cut awaie And if it be a few yeres shorter it must be the lesse estemed And if it answer iustly with the yere it self it weigheth in no side What Reason hath M. Iewel or what Example and Scripture for him Is the Truthe of God bound to the first six hundred yeres And must it not passe that cumpasse which M. Iewel hath apointed vnto it Is God a God of six hundred yeres only and not of all time and all worldes Was the Holyghost promised to tary with vs til vj. C. yeres were come and gone and not to the end of the world The kingdome of Christ which should be euerlasting and his power which should not be takeÌ„ awai must it be interpreted now to haue theyr full terme out in vj. C. yeres only What Grace haue the first vj. C Or what curse of God haue these last .ix. C. yeres Now know you also when the first vj. C. ended Or what trust haue you in them which number the yeres vnto you Some Historiographers recken one way Other recken an other way What certaintie then can you haue of theÌ„ Again those writers whome you folow either do at this present liue Or he commended vnto you by them that now line And how dare you trust either those that nowe liue and write of thinges so long sens past Or those that a greate while sens are deade your selfe not then borne to liue with them and examine their doinges Consider also how many haue wryten within the space of these last nine huÌ„dred yeres how perfite in life how Excellent in knowledge how Painfull in studies how Worthy in their owne dayes How Famous with the Posteritie How mete witnesses in the cause of God and triall of a Pure and holy Religion Abbates Monkes Friers are in these new Gospelling dayes termes of great shame and Ignominie yet what sayeth and honest Protestant against S. Bernard Rupertus Thomas Aquinas Bonauenture Dionysius the Carthusian and other such Can M. Iewel finde any fault in theyr life by any Report of brute or Fame Or any Irreligiousnes in their bookes and wrytinges which are extant for hym to consider Let him say his worst Let him leaue poring in Gloses of no Authoritie to finde some mad thing or other against the wisedome of the Church And let him confer his leisure to Reading or Examining rather of these Witnesse according to the State he taketh vpon him whose sayinges he knoweth we esteeme as we ought to doe O sayeth he these were of late daies I graunt â–ª And not only that but also and you will that they were in euyll and corrupt daies But were they corrupted in them Did they not write against corrupt liuing Did they suffer new Preachers and Apostolikes to goe out of the Church or come against y e church by their euil Doctrine Or did they communicate with Pope Cardinals Bishops Abbots or any other of all the world in their liuing Seing they neither fâ—ared hatred nor curred Fauour why should not their Testimonie be receiued no other exception being brought against them but that they liued in so late daies or such A world All is Ungodly All is Unreasonable All is Uaineglorious to appeale to the times so long past As though that God at this present had not his Church in the world Or as though ye could well folow any other but such as you heare with our owne eares Or as though the good and Lerned men of these Later yeres departed this world hundred of yeres sens were not as nigh to the first six hundred yeres as ye are and as ready to folow the best waie as ye Or as though it were A Ioly mater and a compendious waie to the Gospell to contempne all Christendome that now is and holde with that Christendome that was almoste a thousand yeres sens not knowing yet what Christianitie meaneth Nor Daring to trust it if ye knew it were it not for the Authoritie which is at this present in Christendome the Greatnesse of which hath moued you to beleue what so euer you beleue vpon any good ground Here therfore M. Iewel defend your doinges And shew vs the cause wherefore you doe or should refuse the Testimonie of the last ix hundred yeres which are against you If it be not for Childeshnesse or Wantonesse or Unsensiblenesse that you will none of so many and so graue Witnesses yet except you alleage some honest cause and reason It will remayne I beleue that you doe it vpon a very blinde Stomake and
contention My questioâ—s are short and easy to be answered if you haue any Faith or Conscience at all As in Example Was there not a Church of God in the world when you were borne Did not the Greatnes Grauitie and Authoritie of Nations which were of it moue you to beleue Did the Inuisible and litle Congregation worke that effect in you If ye trusted the Catholike Church of your time in commending Christ vnto you and without her Commendatyon would not haue credited him can you with a safe conscieÌ„ce contemne the voice of the same Church And to colour your defection and Fleeing from it take holde fast of the first six hundred yeres only As though you could with all your witte iudge better what the Primitiue Church thought and beleued than the present Church which is of one Spirite wth the Primitiue c. But there is no Remedie vpon the first six hundred yeres M. Iewel ioyneth with vs And if any thing be longer than that measure he will none of it he hath sayed it ¶ How M. Iewel himselfe dothe vse the Testimonies of what so euer Age and wryter though he bind other to the first sixe hundred yeres only TO the first six hundred yeres cumpasse then we must be bound al against Reason and Conscience but what shall we doe when the standing in our right against the Aduersarie and the Refusing to encountre with him vpon his conditions shall be thought of some Iudges to be A Preiudice vnto our cause and A greate Argument that our hartes faile vs Dispute sayeth the Heretike wyth me vpon these questions whether the Publike Seruice in an vnknowen tongue Or Receiuing vnder one kinde Or Reseruing of the Sacrament in A Pix wyth A Canopie ouer it â–ª c. Was euer vsed in the Primitiue Church No Mary would I saie if it were to me only I will not Dispute with thee vpon theesâ— poyntes But if thy Hart and Learning serue thee make few wordes and Answer me from whence thou câ—mest Who sent thee What are their Names Where are their Sees What is their Succession What is their Authoritie In which pointes if thou satisfie me not only then in these few Articles which thou demaundest but in euery point and part of the Religion which thy Church aloweth I will be Faithfull and Obedient Dispute sayeth he againe vnto me on Munday come seuennight And before that Day cummeth he chaingeth his minde foure or fiue times with me First he will Dispute in Latine Then he will wryte his minde and speake nothing After that he wil haue the mater Reasoned in Englishe and wise men shal be Iudges And after that againe he will haue it done in the hearing of the people not by quicke Disputation but by Reading only the Argumentes out of a Booke If the Catholike Disagree in anye poynt and stand vpon it either stubburnesse either Mistrust of his Cause either some fault or other shal be layed vnto him And so were many greate and heighnous maters Obiected against S. Ambrose because he refused to haue the cause betwene himselfe and the Heretike Auxentius to be tried in the Consistorie of the Emperour before Secular Iudges And his Exception against the Place only and Audience was accompted an high and intolerable Treason In like maner You shall Dispute with me sayeth the Heretike and nothing shall serue you except it be in expresse Scripture If the Catholike refuse that Condition and allege an hundred Reasons and Authorities that we must beleâ—e the vnwriten veritie as wel as the writen And that the word and will of God is allwaies to be obeiâ—d whether it be deliuered vnto vs by Tradition or left vnto vs in Wryting Yet except he yeld at length all England shal ring of it That the Papistes will not be tried by the linely worde of God That they flee the light That they dare not commit their cause to the Scriptures To be short when M. Iewel now more Reasonably in deede than Some of his Masters or Felowes which will admit nothing but Scripture Yet heretically and stately inough proâ—oketh vs to ioine with him And chooseth his questions and excludeth all our Answers vnto them except they be taken iust out of the vâ— C. yeres after Christ although it be very vniustly required of him and A Catholike should neuer come into such bondage Or not alwaies condescend in these lesser pointes vnto A Protestant Yet if he striue long with him about it and stand in the Defence of the last nine hundred yeres alleaging many and them good causes wherefore the Testimonie and consent of so long time should be alowed the longer he striueth the worse shall he be esteemed for it and the ernest mainteining of euery Truth on his side shall goe in Print abrode for an Argument that in dede he hath no good right Be it so then The Catholike must let goe the vantage of ix C. yeres he must fight within that time and cumpasse that the Heretike prescribeth And although that naturally al men are more fauorable to them that are called in to the law than the suers and troblers of them and suffer the defendant whome worldly frindship cleane forsaketh to haue as much right as his cause will geaue him Yet let all thinges be forgoten which may commend the Catholikes and as M. Iewel hath appointed so let the first six hundred yeres only be considered and alowed But here now let me aske one Question As it not Reason like as our aduersarie prescribeth vnto vs the number and Terme of yeres out of which we must gather our Argumentes that so likewise he shuld not come against vs with any Testimony or Authority which were out of those apointed Limites and boundes of yeres If a Challenger shall say to the Partye whome he Prouoketh come let vs straite waies trie the mater betwene our selues in the plaine Fielde and bring thou thy Sword and Buckler as I will mine when they are agreed vpon the Time Place and kind of Weapon if the Challenger would against the others single sworde come with sword dager horse spere Dagge and what so euer defence or helpe he could get â—yside should he not be compted Awretched and Contentious and A glorious Iacke Bragger He that biddeth the combat seemeth to take himself for the better maÌ„ and to like his owne cause and quarell very wel how Ignominious then and Shamefull must it be vnto him not to fight vpon equall conditions with hys Aduersarie Reason you against me sayeth M. Iewel out of the first six hundred yeres only but I for all that will be at my libertie to vse any Testimonie out of the xv C. and odde yeres sens Christ. Which in very deede is as much to say as knele you here vpon one knee and Fight not out of this Circle which I make to you As for my selfe I will goe or run at my pleasure about you and take my vantage
where I can finde it sometimes within sometimes without the Circle sometimes staÌ„ding nigh sometimes coursing about the field Mary Sir if such Priuileges might be graunted to Warriers it were an easie mater to prolong the Battell and to winne the praise of much manlinesse by spurring cut hither and thither and no mater how For he taketh no care hereof how truly he alleage the Testimonies of these last nine hundred yeres Or how worthie and approued Authors they be whom he alleageth but without exception he taketh all that he findeth and from the highest to the lowest from the Text to the Glose and emong Gloses from the best to the worst of them he Taketh and Draweth and Heapeth against vs Al that may seeme to helpe his Assertions Tel vs therefore I pray you M. Iewel what Equitie or Conscience you folow Will you binde the Catholikes to the first six hundred yeres And wil your selfe argue out of cumpasse May not we vse the worthie Authoritie of Bonifacius because he was Bishop of Rome in the yere of our Lord 680 and will you admit the sayinges and doinges of Luther Zwinglius and Caluine all condemned Persons through the Catholike Church and liuing xv C yeres after Christ S. Bernard you say was A man of late yeres So was Dionisius the Carthusian So were others whom I haue rekened vp in the chapiter before And therefore by your accompt of lesse Authoritie And why then doe you allâ—age not only S. Bernard but Durand Gerson Alexander Lynwod Camotensis Hugo Cardinalis Eckius Aeneas Syluius Erasmus and other I report me to the very margine of your boke by that it will appeere whether you do not stuffe your boke with Canons Constitutions Gloses Histories Interpretations of scripture Testimonies of Fathers Opinions of Scholemen c. such as altogether you scrape out of these last nine C. yeres For which your so doing if you can bring any Reason or shew any Speciall Pryuilege graunted to you against the law of Nature that you might do against an other that which you would not haue done to your selfe either of this vnreasonable Fauor and Licence you must geaue some cause or els you must suffer vs to complaine of it that you dele not with vs Indifferently But it will be thought perchaunse of others that you alleage not y â— later Wryters of any time these nine C. yeres for the Estimation or Credite which you haue them in but only because your Aduersary maketh great Price of them Suppose it were so yet you doe him greate Wronge to put him to Answering of more Witnesses than he should doe by right And to fill your Replie with those mennes sayinges whose Authoritâ—es though he doe not contemne yet he would not haue them to possesse occupie y â— place which more Auncient and worthier Persons should haue And although we think as it becometh vs of s. Bernard s. BonaueÌ„ture S. Denyse c. Yet if you would needes haue vs in Reasoning with you not to passe the Boundes and Terme of vj. C. yeres you shoulde not though we alowed the Persons neuer so much bring any of A lower degree and later age against vs either to stand in the place which S. Hierome S. Ambrose S. Augustine or S. Chrysostome should occupie either to commend that place the better by their Presence which the Auncient Fathers of the Primitiue Church doe furnishe aboundantly by themselues and which also they only should furnishe by your appointement And further I say that if you will not suffer me to take any vantage against you by the testimony of any good Man or wryter of the nine hundred yeres last past it is no equalitie that whther I will or no you should make me to Answer the sayinges which you bring against me out of those yeres whiche you passe not vpon And whereas it shall doe me no good though I proue that S. Bernard for Example in that place which you wil alleage doth not only not hinder but allso further my cause to what purpose should I spend anyetime at all in hearing or examining hys wordes which although I declare to make for me may not be lawfully vsed of me And therefore notwithstanding you iudge truly of vs herein and better of vs than of your self that we the Catholikes doe not refuse the Authoritie of later Fathers and Doctours whom the Church yet neuer condemned or despised Yet this our credite which we haue them in must not serue you for any cause or excuse why ye should bring them furth against vs except we may doe the like against you For as you haue appealed to the first vj. C. yeres thereby to let vs of our Libertie so we doe require you also not to passe that nuÌ„ber or cumpasse of those yeres thereby to cut away your superfluitie And in thus doing we are not weary of the later Doctours of Christendome nor afraid of their Iudgments but we are offended with your vainglorious and very wretched behauioure which will not keepe the law yourselfe that you prescribe vnto other Ther is I graunt A kind of ArgumeÌ„t ad hominem non ad rem to the man not to the mater As to some of our Countrie men at this present and them of the most Perfite and exquisite Trade in folowing of the Gospel if A Catholike doe saye that Father Caluine himself whose Iudgment is much praised in the Congregation was of this mind and was also Zelous in it that they did very ill which gaâ—e to king Harry the viij that he should be head of the Church this argument so taken of his Authoritie that was a Proude and Folishe And Lousie Heretike although it be nothing worth in deede and in that respect not to be vsed of A Catholike Yet to him that accompteth of Caluine as if he had bene one of y e lights of the World y â— Catholike may right wel vse it driue him by force of the Consequence either to deny Caluines Authority which he wil not Or y â— kings supremacy which he dareth not So y â— against him that is addicted to any one Opinion of his own or of other whoÌ„ he buildeth vpon to bring an Argument grounded vpoÌ„ his own Opinion iudgment thereby to make him forsake his own opinion or kepe stil in his memory the Contradiction which inwardly pincheth him It is A kind of Reasoning good and profitable And in this respect if any Catholike were so blinde singular as to set more by the Glose vpon VnaÌ„ SanctaÌ„ Extr. de Maior Obed â–ª than the Commentaries of S. Hierome and S. Chrisostome Or by Durand Gerson Lynwod c. than any of the most Auncient Fathers M. Iewel then might be suffered to argue ad hominem that is to alleage Gloses Scholemen and later Doctours to him that hath A speciall fansie vnto those more than any of the Primitiue Church But now se y â— Inequality
can begin the World a freshe And the foundation of six hundred yeres standing on sure grounde let him pull downe all that hath beene builded and shew vs some fyne peâ—ce of worke of his owne suche I trowe as shall in all Proportion agree w t the Primitiue Churche and ryse in a moste goodly Ordre of euery Hâ—ndred yeare since one aboue an other vntill he come vnto this very time in whiche he liueth and geue men to see moste plainly and euidently that his Churche now is of the same makinge without any Imperfection Or gaping of the worke that may be espied Let him I say make an Uniforme and Apte worke For if he will beginne at the ende of the six Hundred yeares and immediately ioyne thereto the state of His Congregation at this Present either it will be a Miraculous worke to see foundacions with meâ—ely high wals and a Roufe a great waye from them without any Stone Timber Staye or Workemanshippe betweene Either will it be a very Eâ—ilfauoured matter to see one peece hanging so farre from the other as Germans of Heretikes lippes doe hange togeather If therefore your building be Sure and True Ioine yeres to yeres and without all gappes or holes make the whole Perfite Close and One. But ye are as wel able to doe it and knit or ioine your Church to the Primitiue as ye are to builde vp againe Al the Abbeies in England Or proue vnto vs that the Stones of them which lie now broken in high waies or were caried out of the waie to building of Gentelmens places doe answer rightly in the forme which they haue at this present to the Foundations and Pillers remainyng yet vnto some Religious houses from whence they haue ben taken Especially this Principle of your Artificioâ—snes standing that the Testimonie of these last nine hundred yeres is not to be Alleaged or Alowed Which being so Uniust and Unreasonable as I haue declared Either let M. Iewel vtterly put out of his Replye what so euer he hath gathered and scraped out of Canons Gloses Scholemen Heretikes Historiographers and other Wryters whatsoeuer of later yeres And from hensefurth fill no more Papers with such kind of stuffe Either els let him be ashamed to bind vs to the first six hundred only himselfe not able to Conteine himselfe Or Maintaine hys cause within that cumpasse But I know I aske his losse For If he may not peeke out of all times such Signes of Defence for his cause as maâ—â— seeme to serue for it he will be quickly vndone in the best Limme he hath And without all doubt will be â—ongtied As on the other side If he will set vs haue right and suffer vs to proue our cause by godly and Lerned witnesses of what so euer Age they be so that he can make no lawfull Exception against them then is he vtterly vndone in his owne Conscience knowing that the Catholike Church doth expressely and by name condemne his Masters Heresies So that it is not otherwise likely but he will haue vs to stand fast bound to the first six hundred yeres and will reserue vnto himselfe that special Priuilege to Take and Make his vantage Where and When so euer he may 1 That M. Iewel refuseth to â—e tried by the Sentence or Testimony of the first six hundred yeres to which only he appealeth WHat Remedie then If M. Iewel shall prouoke manfully and wretchedly apoint vs a bouÌ„d which we may not go beyoÌ„d in coÌ„ming against him If he may vse xv C. yeres and odd and we not vi C. and one day ouer If he shal fetch nede lesse vagaries and we be restrained of our lawfull libertie what Remaineth â–ª Uerelye to haue pacience vntill it shall please Almighty God either to conuerâ—e his heart to repentaunce either to moue the minds of other to hauâ— a better consideration of these Matters whiche pertaine to their Saluation either to come him selfe in Iudgemente and make an ende of all Proceedings Yet this in the meane time thou maist consider indifferent Reader that we are two manner of wayes abused by M. Iewell First that ye wil prescribe vnto vs from whence we shall take our Argumentes against him Secondly that himselfe will not be content with those Condicions whiche he prescribeth vnto vs. But is this all the wrong that Maister Iewell doth vnto Us No it is nâ—t all For now I shall declare vnto thee how Himselfe will not admitte the Witnesses of the very first six hundred yeares vnto whiche he straightly byndeth vs. And what can bee more vnreasonable For in seperating the last nine Hundred from the first six and in alowing the Firste and condemning the Latter what dothe he but note vnto vs the Iâ—corruption and Puritie of Faith in those daies and not warrant the Testimonies to be good if it be taken out of the first six hundred yeres after Christ. Of the first he saieth If ani learned maÌ„ c be able to bring any one Sufficient Sentence c. that the thinges vpon which he Chalengeth vs were vsed or alowed in the Primitiue Churche for the space of six hundred yeres after Christ I am content to yeld and subscribe Of the Later yeres he saieth S. Bernard is a Doctour but of late yeres therefore his Authoritie must weigh the Lighter If therefore there be no Excellencie or Prerogatiue in the first six hundred why diuided he them so Precisely and Diligently from the later nine And If there be so Great as he seemeth to make why will not he himselfe stand vnto the Iudgment of that Primitiue Churche And that first age so chast and vndefiled Choose one of these two M. Iewel which you will And let vs see an Example and token either of your wisdome and Prudencie in Separating for some iust cause the Beginninges of the One and whole Summe of xv C. yeres from the latter endes of it either of your Iustice and Indifferencie in regarding the witnesses of the First six hundred yeres which you require to be exactly folowed of others For as you say Lyra and Teutonicus liued at the least Thirtene C. yeares after Christ Therefore their Authoritie must needes seeme the lesse Whye saye ye not also S. Leo and S. Gregorie liued fiue hundred yeares after Christe Therefore their Authoritie must nedes seme the lesse Or why put you A Difference betwene the Former and the later yeres of the xv C. in which Christ hath ruled his church And if your wisedome saw good causes wherefore you should sort y â— yeres which haue passed sence Christes Incarnation after a rare maner cul out as it were the best from the worst with what Conscience then and Equitie can you refuse to be ordered by the Testimonie of the better sort of them For if against the later nine hundred yeres which you take from vs this Exception of yours is inough to discredite them that they were Late It foloweth consequently that to the
And how is that It foloweth Loquitur Dominus ad Peâ—rum c. Our Lord speaketh to Peter I tel thee saith he that thou art Peter and vpon this Peter or Rocâ—e I vvil builde my Church and the gates of hel shâ—lnot ouercome it Vnto the vvil I geue the keyes of the kingdome of Heauens and those thinges that thou shalt bind in earth shal be bouÌ„d in the heauens also and vvhat soeuer thou shalt loose vpon earth shal be loosed also in the Heauens And vnto the same Peter after his 〈…〉 my sheepe By these wordes then it is manifest what is Original Head and Doctrine of our heauenly Maister that is to the forsaking of which Sainct Cyprian imputeth the Proceedinges of the Diuel and of Heresies Uerely no other than that which our Sauiour by the foresaid expresse Scriptures gaue to S. Peter But now heere ariseth a greaâ—â— doubt and question that S. Peter can not wel be the Heade because euery one of the Apostles was as great in Power as he And this in deede is the Argument that M. Iewel maketh out of S. Cyprian against the Supremacie Which if Sainct Cyprian hadde not espied and Answered then should M. Iewel easily be pardoned But now what an intolerable kinde of soule dealing is this to take an Obiection out of an Olde Father and either for Hast. Or Negligence Or Craftines Or Desperatnes to let go the right answer vnto it For concerning the Obiection Sainct Cyprian thus withstandeth it saiyng And although he gaue after his resurrection lyke povver vnto al his Apostles c. yet to declare vnitie he desposed by his Authority the Original of the same vnitie begining of one By the Obiection then it scemeth that no more accompt should be made of S. Peter then of the vest of the Apostles which seuerally was as greate in power as he But by the Aunswere made with this Aduersatiue Tamen Yet it is manifest that notwithstanding the equa litie among y â— Apostles S. Peter yet was y â— First and the Head among them For Christ disposed by his Authoritie saith S. Cyprian the Original not of vnitie as you mangle it M. Iewel but of the same vnitie which vndoubtedly was in the Apostles beginning of one which is S. Peter As in the Sentence folowing more manifestly appeereth to the further opening of S. Cyprians right meaning and your false dealing For the one halfe of the Sentence is this in deede the rest also of the Apostles vvere the same that Peter vvas endevved with like fellovvship honour and povver This half M. Iewel you rest vpon and build your Conclusion that one of them had no more Priuilege than an other And why interpreted you no further Is the sentence or Sense thinke you at an ende when you haue your purpose Doth not S. Cyprian Interpret Correct Amend or Determine it with an Adnersatiue yet saying least any maÌ„ should through his former words set lesse by S. Peter or his Chaire But yet the Original commeth from vâ—itie that the Church may be shevved to be one And what other thing is this to say but that notwithstanding it to be true that the Apostles were endewed with like honour power as S. Peter was yet no manne ought to gather heereof that there was no Order among them Or that one Bishope now hath as large and absolute Authoritie as an other But this rather must folowe that because schismes and Heresies doe grow apase vvhere no Original or Head is sought for or regarded And because it should be perceiued that the Church is One in that it coÌ„sisteth of one Head vnto whome al the rest were they neuer so high or felow like must be refer red therefore Christ by his Authoritie disposed the Original of that vnitie â— endewed S. Peter with a singular Prerogatiue that he shoulde be that One in the Church from whom whosoeuer departed should not be of the Church And note wel the Cause why the beginning must rise of One vt Ecclesia vna monstretur that the Church might be shevved to be one Why Should it not be One though in euery Diocese through the world euery seueral Bishop were Chief therein No surely by S. Cyprian it should not be But in that the Head therof is but one the vnitie of her doth folow necessarily How doth it folow Mary Whosoeuer holdeth not with this Head he is not in the Church and so must none remaine within her but the Catholike obedieÌ„t Christians How caÌ„ they but agree then al in one Head if they mind to coÌ„tinue in y â— Church wheras y â— departure from hâ—m is to take an other Church bisides that whose special marke is Vnitie in one Head This conclusion then standing that S. Peter was set by the Autoritie of Christ in the first place was that no special Priuilege trow you Or was he First to that intent oÌ„ly that in reckening vp the Apostles men should know where to begin Or that in their meetings together he should sitte first Or speake first Or subscribe first How simple things are these for the wisedome of God to think of And how litle auailable to the preseruing of the Churche in Unitie if no further Preeminence were geuen him And againe if the B. of Romes authoritie now as S. Peters was then were of no more force yet beeing of so much if other would sit before him Or speake before him in any Councel should they not be Offenders against the ordinance of God How can it be otherwise whereas he appointed by his Authoritie the Original of Vnitie to begin of One Suppose then that some one transgresseth this order who shal reproue him If none how vnreasonable is it to set a law and not to include therby an authority to punish the transgressor of the Law If any who more worthy of that Office then the Chief Bishope Ergo there was in S. Peter a proper Authoritie ioyned to that dignitie of his first place which M. Ie. grauÌ„teth vnto him by which he had power to coÌ„troll them y â— should or wold â—esist that Primacie of his in how smal thing so euer it consisted And if there were such Authority Ergo some special Pâ—â—â—lege of Binding or Losing which no other of the Apostles had Except ye wil be so mad as to thinke that in coÌ„trolling of a fault committed against any Excellent Person his Inferiour should be Iudge in the mater and bind or loose at his wil or discretion I leaue it therefore as most manifest that notwithstanding the Apostles were equal in felowshipp of honour and power â–ª with S. Peter yet the Original of 〈◊〉 was appointed by our Saluiour himselfe to begin of S. Peter only and none other And this his preeminence make you it as litle as you can requiring A Proportional Authoritie to be graunted vnto him for the defense therof against al disdaine or disobedience that might be procured or
first six hundred yeres this alone is Commendacion inough that yourselfe make no Exception against them but permit vs to take all the vantage we can out of them As if you should haue expressely said vnto vs for as much as I will admit no Late Catholike Doctour Father or Councel but Catholike Old and AuncieÌ„t And for as much as I take the last nine hundred and odde yeres sens Christ to be but late and out of the cumpasse which I will alow vnto you in reasoning against me Therefore if you looke that I shall make no Exception against the Authoritie and Witnesses which you will bringe Prouide by time that they be taken out of the vj. C. yeres next after Christ. This Trueth therefore so standyng that In refusing the witnesses of Later yeres you must be vnderstanded to alow vnto vs the Catholyke wryters of Auncient time and this Auncient tyme being defined vnto vs by you y â— it consisteth iust in y â— vj. C. next after Christ so that if it be founde later but by one yere you wil not take it to be old inough Let vs see now in what Maner and Fashion you conforme yourself to the iudgment of that very Time which you toke yourselfe vnto So precisely as if it should make altogeather for you Firste of all you dooe not allowe Clemens de Consti Apost Neither Abdias nor Hypolitus Martyr And Athanasius Epistle is to you a Scar crow stuft vp in straw and Iulius Epistle seemeth to â—auoure of some corruption And at one worde the Decrees and Epistles decretal depraue the Scriptures Mainetaine the kingdome of the Pope Publisshe a multitude of Vaine Ceremonies and I can not tell what For how worshipfull and worthy causes you make Exceptions against them you shall better vnderstand that by him whiche alleaged them But concerning my ObiectioÌ„ I haue more plaine and sensible Demonstrations to declare how you refuse Auncient Fathers and witnesses that I nede not to reason at all with you about your Ignominious and Iniurious Extenuations of the forsaid Authorities And if by these Examples which I shall nowe bring it be not made Open and manifest that in deede you litle regard Antiquitie then will nothing euer make it playne And if this which I shall declare doe proue so much to the IndiffereÌ„t Reader Inough is as Much as he can require Here then it would be remembred or considered that which D. Harding bringeth out of the Ecclesiastical Historie for A token and argument of Communion vnder one kind The Storie is of A noble woman and Heretike which being driuen thereto by feare of leesing her husband promised him to Receiue with him And at the time of the Misteries hauyng the Sacrament deliuered into her handes she Receiued it not but toke of her Maied that stode by A peece of Breade that she had caused to be brought for the purpose from her owne house Which as she would haue biten it hardened in to a Stone Hereof D. Harding gathereth that If both kindes had then ben ministred she would haue practised some other shift for the auoiding of the Cup which had not ben so easie what sayeth M. Iewel herevnto I maie not disgrace the credite of this Storie albeit in Sozomenus and Nicephorus of bothe whome the same is recorded there be sundrie thinges that may well be Filed You signifie then that you might doe more than you will And were it not for A certaine quiet Affection that is sodainly come ouer your mind we see that because Sozonemus and Nicephorus haue sundrie thinges that may wel be filed Undoubtedly this Storye should be one of them If it were at this present your Pleasure But because you feare no Inconuenience If you should graunt it therfore you make no Exception against it And yet least by this letting of the Storie to passe so quietly you shoulde seeme to geaue Occasion to some hereafter of taking vantage against you thereby by you geaue your Reader a watche worde that you doe not alowe the Storye absolutely but that you doe not Disgrace it And that this selfesame not Disgracing of it cummeth rather of your free will and Humanitie than of any bounden Dutie For In Sozomenus and Nicephorus bothe Sundrye thinges you saye may well be Filed But perchaunce ye neede not in this Storye to shew how finely you can file it For it foloweth But I see no cause yet wherfore M. Harding should blow the Triumph As who should saie If there were any losse cumming vnto you by this Storie then loe you would File it But there is no Feare of any And why so For Why might she not take the Cup and faine that she dranke and yet Drinke nothing Shee might haue done so in deede by the nature of Absolute Possibilitie but we speake nowe what is likely to haue been done by the course of the Storie And whereas in bowing downe after shee had taken the Sacramente into her handes and making resemblaunce to Praye shee might haue so handled the matter that shee should haue seemed to haue put somwhat in her mouth c. And yet did not so but prouided betweene her selfe and her maide to bring Breade from her owne house and to eate that in steede of the Sacrament And yet practised no shift to auoide the Cuppe It is very Likelye and Probable that there was no receauing of the Cuppe at that Present for which because there is as you wil not deny a â—leight in a womans witte she shoulde haue rather prouided as beinge more harde to bringe to passe For in deede to put the Cuppe vnto her mouth and faine that shee dranke It was an Easy matter And more easy it was when shee bowed downe her selfe after the taking of y â— Sacrament into her hands like one that would praie to put her hand only vnto her mouth And either faine that she Receiued or conueigh the mater so closely that it should not be Perceaued But the Circumstance of the Storie geaneth it that she coulde not escape so For then vndoubtedly she had ben a very Naturall to trouble her Maied and her selfe with care to couueigh the household breade vnto her and care to receiue it c. Ergo neither by putting the Cuppe only to her mouth if any then had ben vsed she could haue satisfied her husband Or the common expectation of the lookers on or her owne feare Now whereas no Cuppe was at that present receiued she was deliuered of the care to find A shift to auoide it And the Precise and Singular prouiding to receiue householde breade vnder colour of the Sacrament proueth that she was not trobled with any Feare of receiuing the Cuppe or care of auoiding it And this Reason or Argument is problablye gathered out of the Storie it selfe But let vs heare M. Iewels Deuise and Imagination Touching the Trueth of this whole mater if a man list only to goe by
〈◊〉 in one case may 〈…〉 〈◊〉 that 〈…〉 haue you that haue 〈◊〉 â—aith remayning yet vnto you And â—ou that haue no sâ—ith And mynde 〈◊〉 knoweth when 〈◊〉 for all that 〈…〉 it 〈…〉 the 〈◊〉 them selues wil not in some pointes speake against it For now not to beleue the Canonical Scripâ—ures who dareth And how greate cause hath A fainte and weake harte to assent vnto them whiles the enemies of the Catholike faith doe not openly denie them But when hereaftâ—r Iniquitie and Impudencie shall so aboâ—nde â–ª that faith shal be measured by Reason and not by Authoritie and when by litle and litle men shal be accustomed to conteâ—â—e mocke the Appariâ—ions made vnto holy persons by Angels Saintes the Mother of God or Christ hymselfe and lyken them to fables and Illuâ—ions of the 〈◊〉 Poetes and wicked Sprites that raigned â—mong the Panymes what credite wil be geaueÌ„ shortly after to the Scriptures themselues Wil not the Commyng of the three Angels to Abraham and the Feast which they toke at his handes wil not the wrastling of the Angel with Iacob a whole â—â—ght longe together wyl not the Angels that appeered to Agaz Iosue Balam â–ª Manâ—e Dauid Elias wil not the fiery Chariots that Elizeâ—s saw wil not the Terrible horse wâ—th one in golden armour sitting vpon him and two goodly and glorious yong men in bewtifull apparel which scouâ—ged Heliodorus that would haue spoyled the Orphanes and wydowes and other of their goodes that late in safe keepinge in the Temple of Hierusalem wil not the Angels appeering to the Maries and the Apostles al in white and the Angel that byd S. Peter aryse and put on his hose and shewes wil not al these thinges be quikly and desperately resembled to the conuersations which Homers Goddes and Goddesses had with such as they fauored Nothing is so easie as to cal thinges into doubt to disgrace a true and holy Storie by obiecting a lyke vnto it of the telling of Idolatours or the making of Poetes In which kind of Confounding Marring and Spoyling of thinges M. Iewel hath a Folissh Grace and if he had any Reuerence to Old and Approued Stories he woulde neuer haue ioyned Sozomeâ—us and Homer together He therefore that hath Faith let hym thanke God for it and praie for the increase he that hath none but is negligente or Indifferent let hym thinke aduysedly vpon the sauing of both soule and bodye and make speede to beleue the Scriptures themselues whiles so litle contradiction is against them For other writers then afterwardes let hym consider whether it will stand with saluation to beleue none or whether it be of necessitie to admiâ— al Or whether it can agree with any reason and constancie to contemne them whome he hath for good cause once alowed In beleuing nothing but Scripture there is present daunger For by that Reason Scripture it selfe can not be â—redited because it is not writen in all Scripture In beleeuinge euery thing there is absurditie because of so many Contradictions and Contrarieties as are found emong Writers In beleuing of certaine bookes not yet as Scripture but as the bookes of Lerned Auncient and Generally receiued Authors and sayinges as worthie to be credited and esteemed as our owne opinions there is wisedome and discretion But â–ª if as M. Iewel hath geauen most shameful Examples any man wil contemne the selfesame whome he would seeme to allowe that is such a point not only of Hypocrisie but of Iniurie also that as he should BEWARE OF M. IEWEL for it so should â—e take heed to hym selfe least he fal in it How M. Iewel vseth the selfesame testimonies of the first six hundred yeares against whiche he bringeth Exceptions when his Aduersarie allegeth them THus far then we are come against M. Iewel y â— I haue proued him to â—ind y â— Catholikes vnto y â— first six hundred yeres bysides al reason and equitie And that hymselfe alleageth Authorities of later yeres with all holdnes and libertie Thirdly that he wil not stand to the witnesses of the first six hundred yeres vnto which he appealed so precisely Aâ—d what is there now that maie be added vnto his Chiualrie For in deede this maie be well called his Chiualrie to prouoke as it were al the world and to make conditions such as 〈◊〉 hym and when the battel increaâ—eth â–ª to chainge his armour to put on a 〈◊〉 face to denie that he alowed to alow that he denied In which as he hath shewed hymselfe like as I â–ª by Examples haue declared A 〈◊〉 so what he maie or hath addâ—d therunto to would be considered And I find that his noble Courage and tried Magnanimitie is so greate that the selfe same Authorities against which he fought too the and naile in the Chappiter before he hymselfe in his owne proper person aloweth in other places of his Replie and vseth for substantial and good Argumentes This to proue at large were very easie but in recompense of the last Chappiter before which hath been longer than my opinion I wil make this preseÌ„t one shorter than my first determination And shortnes also maie wel be taken wheÌ„ the mater is in sight that is to be proued I saie therefore Against S. Chrysostomes Masse M. Iewel doth argue in the 10. page of his Replie And not only reasoneth simplie that it can no◠〈◊〉 his but taunteth also them preâ—ily that would haue it to be S. Chrysostomes But â–ª how much he is deceaued in his Aâ—gument and how litle cause he hath to dalie as though he had the victorie it is sufficiently declared alreadie fo 53. of this booke The same M. Iewel in the 89. and 90. page of the Repliâ— where the place of S. Chrysostome There is none to Communicate is layed against hym there I saie he vseth the testimonie of this Liturgie conâ—esseth it to be S. Chrysostomes For these be his wordes Chrysostome himselfe in his Liturgie saith thus Againe But what needeth much proufe in a Case that is so plaine Chrysostome hymselfe in his Liturgie that Commonly beareth his name foloweth the same order Againe This was the order of S. Chrysostomes Masse touching the Clergie and that by the wytnesse of S. Chrystostom himselfe Note the wordes Indifferent Reader and see what proportion is in M. Iewels doeings That Liturgie which before could not be S. Chrysostomes because it praieth for Pope Nicolas and because A praier is there for the Empire and Victorie of the Emperour Alexius and because I trowe it were prophesieing and noâ— praieing that Chrysostome praied for men by name seuen hundred yeres before they were borne that same nowe is S. Chrysostomes by M. Iewels owne confession And not only S. Chrysostomes but Chrysostomes hymselfe For herein also is a greate strength that y â— place which was obieâ—ted against hym beinge taken out of S. Chrysostome he thought to adde a Grace
factes are put furth in writing they are for this end put furth to be abhorred and not to be folowed As Cains murdering of his brother or Iudas betrayinge of his Master Yet when the persons are notorious as Cain and Iâ—das Or the factes them selues are euidently naught as to kyll or berray Innoâ—entes he should not doe much harme which would desperatly goe about to perswade any to folowe such Examples But here is the mischief when Historiographers are brought in as alowing thaâ— whiche they condemne in deede Or whâ—â— heretikes are made to go for catholike Bishops And when y â— is put furth as an Example to be folowed which serued rather to dehort men from resisting Trueth and Authoritie And when by natural reason the mater is not so euident but examples of former times in the one siâ—e or other maie wel moue the vnleaâ—neâ— to folowe them And in this arte M. Iewel is a doctor For if he would haue expressely said The Arrians and Heretikes of the Easte Church wheÌ„ they had wrongfully expelled the catholikes and good Bispopes Paulus Athanasius c. out of their sees they contemned the Bishope of Romes letters by which they were required to receiue them againe and to set aside al Iniurie and newâ—anglenes Ergo the Bishope of Rome is supreame head of the Church If M. Iewel would after this open and plainâ— manner haue vsed hymselfe there is not I suppose so vnsensible A Protestant which would not haue iudged hym to haue reasoned very folishly But now whiles he geueth them no worse name than the Bishops of the East and kepeth frome the knowlege of his Readers that they were Heretikes and Arrians he maketh them to thinke that al is wel And that these Bishopes were men of much credite and worthines and that not only late Gospellers but old Catholique Fathers also haue denied Obedience to the Bishoppe of Rome Whiche thinges being altogether otherwise the Readers are driuen into perdition And M. Iewel either seeth not that an Argument brought from the Authoritie of blasphemous heretikes is nothing worth which is incredible in him that hath so greate insighâ—e in the true Logykâ— and Diuinitie either seinge it he maketh no conscience of it to bring his purposes to an end by what meanes soeuer he maie this is so credible that it agreeth very wel both with the desperatnes of his cause and of his stomake BEVVARE therefore Indifferent Reader of M. Iewel and knowe this for most certeine that as I haue declared by a few Examples in this Chapiter that he allegeth the condemned sayinges and doings of Heretikes vnder the colour 〈◊〉 Catholike and approued witnesses so in many moe places of his Replie he doth in like maner abuse them most shamfully But of them thou shalt reade in other Bookes And what now is there more M. Iewel that ye wil require or vse against vs To the first six hundred yeres only you haue appealed your selfe yet do vse the testimonies of al ages To the first six hundred only you haue appealed and yet against the approued writers of that selfe tyme you haue excepted Besydes this as though ther were not to be found Catholike witnesses inough in the cause of the catholike Faith you couertly bring in against vs the accursed sayinges and doâ—inges of Heretikes Which one point excepted that you shal not in question of the Catholyke Faith and Tradition â–ª make any old Heretikes Iudges in the cause Or witnesses for the reste I dare graunt vnto you to take your vantage where you can finde it But hauing so large cumpasse graunted vnto you against the expresse reason Equitie which should be in your Chalenge shal it not become you to vse this priuilege discreetly and truly And so to allege your witnesses as in deede they meane in their owne sense without false applying thereof And as they speake in their owne tongue without adding vnto their say inges or taking awaie from them any thing that is of the substance of their verdicte Thus whether you doe obserue or no let it be tried And that it maie be tried the better I wil briefely and plainely proue against you M. Iewel before any indifferent Reader First y â— you haue abused Councels then Lawes Canon and Ciuil Thirdly Fathers and Doctours Auncient and Late And that ye haue spared no kind of writer that came in your way How M. Iewel hath abused Councels COuncels in one sense are abused when that which is found in them to be condemned is brought furth by any Protestant as though it were approued As in example wheras D. Harding concluded vpon the profite which cometh of celebrating the memorie of our Lords Passion that the Sacrifice of the Aultar which is made in remembrance therof shuld not be intermitted although the people would not communicate M. Iewel To adde a lytle more weighte to this seely reason saieth further in D. Hardings behalfe If this Sacrifice be so necessarie as it is supposed then is the Priest bound to Sacrifice euery daie yea although he him selfe Receaue not But howe proueth he this it foloweth For the Sacrifice and the receauing are sundrie thinges And what of that For although Communion bread and wine be sundrie thinges yet you wil not permit the Receiuing of the Lords supper in one kinde oâ—ly And so although Sacrifice and Receiuing be distinct yet doth it not folow that a Priest maie offer and not receaue But you wil proue it by better Authoritie then your owne for thus you saie As it is also noted in a late Councel holden at â—oledo in Spaine Quidam Sacerdotes caet Certaine Priestes there be that euery day offer many Sacrifices and yet in euery Sacrifice withhold themselfe from the Communion What is your Ergo then vpon this place Your Conclusion should be Ergo A Priest maie Sacrifice although he himselfe doe not Receaue But can you gather this out of the Councel Doth it not rather make expressely to the contrarie Doth it not reproue the Priestes which Sacrifice Receue not Let the place be considered then conferred with M. Iewels collection The whole place is this Relatum est caet It is tolde vs that certaine emonge the Priestes doe not so manie tymes Receaue the grace of the holy Communion as they seeme to offer Sacrificies in one daie but if they Offer moe Sacrificies in one daie they vvithhold themselues in euerie offering from the Communion and they take the grace of the holie Communion only iâ— the lasâ—e offering of the Sacrifice Aâ— though that they should not so ofte participate the true singular Sacrifice as oft as the offering of the body and bloud of our Sauiour Iesus Christ shal be sure to haue ben made For behold the Apostle saieth doe not they eate the Sacrificies vvhich are partakers of the Aultar Certaine it is that they vvhich doe Sacrifice and doe not eate are giltie of the
haue made an end of the Grace of the Eucharist let him be accursed for euer Now this forbyddeth not but that the Priest may carie the SacrameÌ„t home to the houses of Christians as it is at this present vsed in the catholike church And that they may with good Conscience receaue it But let this be referred to the Chapiter How M. Iewel hath abused Councels In this place I presse hym only with his contradiâ—tion that sometymâ—s he doth not denie but that Godly Persons did receaue Priuately at home and at an other tyme he is altogeather chaunged and wil nedes haue receiuing at home to be an Abuse condemned by Councels and Fathers The Single CoÌ„munioÌ„ was neuer taken for lawful but only in consideration of circumstancies and cases of necessitie How then is the Mystical distribution a part of the substance of Christes Supper if for any respecte it maie be altered or omitted Thinketh M. Harding that the Sacrifice whereof neither Christ nor his Disciples euer spake one word is the substance of his Supper And that the Mystical Distribution in remembraunce of his Death whereof he gaue vs such a straight Commaundement in so manifest and so plaine wordes is no part of the Substance And thinke you that if Distribution be necessary any maÌ„ may receiue by him selfe alone in any kind of Case or Circumstance For as no necessity can make it lawful to Consecrate in Cheese or Milke because Bread and Wine perteine to the mater and Substance of the Sacrament So if the Single Communion be lawful that is if one by him selfe alone may Receiue the Sacrament it must needes folow that to Receiue with Cumâ—any is not of the Substaunce of Christes Institutâ—on The simple people hearing Masse in a strange Language is deaâ—e and heareth not at al. You must expound your meaning or els hearing and not hearing wil not be wel perceiued For if ye referre hearing of Masse to the hearing of y â— words the â—ownd doth sâ—â—ike the eare though y e meaning come not to the mind And if ye referre hearing of Masse to y â— vnderstanding of y â— which is there done then doth euery faithful y â— beleueth y â— body of Christ there to be offâ—red vp vnblondily for him c. heare the Masse as excellently as if he could conster and pâ—rse euery word of the Canon And therefore you can not without plain iniury make y â— people not to heare y â— which thei do heare with their eares or not to apprchâ—â—d y â— in their hart which they be assured of by Faith Melanchthon and Bucer accompted the receiuing in one or both kindes a thing indifferent M. Iewel answereth Thus farre furth their desire was it might be iudged free not that thei thought Christ had not ordeined the Sacrament to be ministred vnto the people in both kindes or that in itselfe it is Indifferent but that the Faithful of God might indifferently and freely vse it without controlment These wordes neede A Reconciliation to bring them at one togeather For if the receiuing in both kinds be not in it selfe Indifferent how may the faithful of God indifferently vse it And if they may Indifferently vse it how it is not Indifferent Note also the Crafte or blindnes of M. Iewel He Interpreteth Melanchthon and Bucer in suche sorte as if the question had ben Whether the people might not choose whether they would receaue in both kindes or not receaue at all And he maketh them to answer that they wishe it to be free and Indifferent to Receaue in both if they wil. But the question in deede is of Receauing in both kinds or in one And they Answer that it is a thing Indifferent And what is y â— to say Whether that it should be free for the people to Receaue in both Yea truly this is one part of the sense But another is that it should be as free for them that would to receaue in one also For the two pointes betwene which the Indifferencie goeth are to receaue in one kind Or to receaue in both without controlment Which being graunted to the Protestamts they should not inueigh and crie oâ—t against thâ— Papistes for receauing in one but they might thinke themselues chariâ—ably dispensed withal for their free Receauing vnder both So that Melanchthon and Bucer were not of the mynde to condemne the maner of other Christians as M. Iewel in this 〈◊〉 falsely interpreteth them but lyke 〈◊〉 â—â—râ—tikes they prouided for their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wishing that it might be lawâ—â—◠〈◊〉 their brothers to Receaue in both kindes without câ—trolment and y â— it shoâ—ld 〈◊〉 be made a mater of consâ—ience and â—â—â—â—gion whether the people were serued in both or one kind the thing in it selfe being Indifferent To minister vnto the vulgare people in both kindes was not Christes Institution saith D. Harding M. Iewel replieth Thus he saith and saith it often and only saith it Other Authoriâ—â—e than his owne he bringeth none Surely we must loke for no reason or cause of his so saying Yet is foloweth Immediately The Reason that moueth him I weâ—ne is this â—or that there was no Laie people at that banket with Christ but the Apostles only I weene then he doth more than onely say it when he geaueth A Reason for it It doth not folow We may breake A Ceremonie Ergo we maie breake the Substance of Christes Institution It folâ—weth not in dede And hereby you may see that the Termes of 〈◊〉 and Substance in Christes Institution are not Unnecessarie and vaine This difference in Termes of Substance and Accidentes in Christes Institution is newly found out and hath no warrant neither of the Scriptures neither of the Olde Fathers You be to fine and precise M. Iewel for simple Catholikes And it seemeth that yourselfe would not speake but out of Scripture or Old Father like as some in the world more curious than â—digent will haue no one worde in all their writinges which they can not bring out of Cicero But I pray you is not the Distinction of things about Christes Institution into Substance and Accidents as reasonable and as necessary as into Substance and Ceremonies For by Ceremonies you must needes meane a diuerse thing from Substance â–ª and such as may be let alone or taken away without corrâ—ption of Subiect or Principal 〈◊〉 And what other thing is that but a plain Accident Yf yâ— find then any 〈◊〉 of the Scriptures or of the old Fathers to 〈◊〉 your Termes of Substaâ—ce and Ceremonies about Chriâ—â—es Iâ—stitution you may be bolde without further warrant to admit the Termes of Accidentes and Substance about the same Institution And if that you notwithwstaÌ„ding you find not that former distinctioÌ„ in Scriptures or old Doctors dare boldly sai y â— it doth not folow we may breake a Ceremonie Ergo we may breake the substance of