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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A07781	A notable treatise of the church in vvhich are handled all the principall questions, that haue bene moued in our time concerning that matter. By Philip of Mornay, Lord of Plessis Marlyn, gentleman of Fraunce. And translated out of French into English by Io. Feilde.; Traicté de l'église. English	Mornay, Philippe de, seigneur du Plessis-Marly, 1549-1623.; Fielde, John, d. 1588.	1579 (1579)	STC 18159; ESTC S107520	167,479	400

shoulde say to the ende it should be deliuered vnto the posteritie so as we haue it there registred by foure sworne Notaries of the holie Ghost and expounded in many Epistles of the Apostles Finally these Registers of the kingdome of heauen haue gathered them together by the common care of the Churches wherein they haue bene kept the which haue witnessed that this worde proceeded from them and thereto haue put to their seale and to the ende that no Scripture myght be made equall vnto them and to take away also the foundation of all heretikes which euery where alledge it and bring in to serue euery turne the traditions of the Apostles the Churches haue brought them into one booke which they call the Canon that is the rule and the Canonical Scriptures See then that in the Christian Church we haue now as was vnder the lawe one rule to iudge the right from the crooked a squire to direct our buylding a compasse to guyde our barke a lawe to iudge controuersies and a God in his woorde to determine all matters which shall arise in the Churches All that is agreeable to this word of God is of God for that it is his owne word All that is not agreeable to this worde is of man and no man hath any voyce in the Churche to make any lawes concerning the seruice of god The sonne of mā alone God and man hath onely this power of whom it is onely sayd Heare him Al then that is ouer and besides this ought to haue no place in the Church By this worde thus limited within the bookes of the Canonicall Scripture the primatiue Church hath taken away an infinite nomber of traditions which heretiks haue made to passe vnder the name of the Apostles allowing nothing but that which they haue found contained in the foresayde bookes By the same also they haue stopped the mouth of heresies which sprong vp of the noughtie and vnsound interpretations thereof to be short they neuer complained when they had any thing to doe with heretikes who agreed of this Iudge accompting their matter wonne but rather when they vanquished them which refused the same worde forasmuch as it is impossible to finde a Iudge to them that refuse to be iudged of God. Our aduersaries alwaies cry with open mouth The Fathers Fathers Fathers but beholde whereby the Fathers woulde bee iudged and before whome they would pleade This controuersie sayeth S. August requireth a Iudge let Christ then be Iudge himselfe and tel vs himself wherefore he dyed Let the Apostle also be iudge together with him for in the Apostle also Christ himselfe speaketh It is sayde that he hath not spared his owne sonne c. but hath giuen him to the death for vs See then the Iudge before whome he calleth the Pelagians from whome our aduersaries haue borowed their doctrine Against the Donatistes his ordinarie wordes are We haue founde Christ in the scriptures there also must wee finde the Church Also let it not be heard any more betwene vs I say this thou sayest that but rather see what the Lord sayth for we haue saith he the bookes of the Lord to which we both giue consent we both beleeue and keepe Againe the canonicall Scripture is the rule of all The epistles of Bishops gyue place one to an other and Councels are amended and corrected one by an other but that must correct all Also where shall wee feede the sheepe of the Lorde Vpon the mountaynes of Israel these mountaines of Israel are the altars of the Scriptures of god When any man shall preach according to that from thence take taste thereof and all that is not from thence cast it awaye for feare of straying in the mystes And when the Donatistes alleadged Saint Cyprian vnto him of whome notwithstanding hee maketh a great accompt in all his workes and specially through whome he myght haue ouercome them in many matters I sayeth he allowe not the wrytings of Saint Cyprian for canonicall And yet herein I doe him no wrong for not in vayne was this so healthfull a Canon made in which are comprehēded the bookes which we dare not iudge and through which notwithstanding wee iudge of all bookes as well of infidelles as of Christians That which I finde there agreeable with Scripture I accept it with prayse that which I finde not agreeable to the Scripture by his good leaue I reiect it And there is no doubt sayeth hee in another place but that nowe he seeth all more cleare and bryght then when he was conuersant in darkenes that he will rather be glad to know how comfortable it is for vs that in the writinges of Christian orators and learned preachers a man may finde things to be reproued and that in the writings of those poore fishers that is to say of the Apostles a man shall finde no such thing in them Alledge not therefore to me sayeth he in this case their writings but the Lawe the Prophets the Psalmes the Gospell and the Apostle For from hence it is that I holde the Church is spread ouer all and is not tyed vnto any certayne place And the rule which hee gyueth vs out of the bookes of Cyprian he hath also gyuen out of his owne and out of all the rest and the places also repeated by Gratian in his Decretalles I knowe very wel that Gratian to get credite to himselfe gyueth no lesse aucthoritie to the decretall Epistles of the Pope then to the Canonicall bookes of the scripture impudently corrupting a place taken out of the bookes of Christian doctrine where he speaketh the quite contrarie But this is not worth the confutation And Alfonsus de Castro himselfe who is one of the chiefe pillars of the Papacie doth acknowledge this fault very liuely reproueth him for it The Arriās in a more high matter of the Christian faith woulde escape by the Councilles but he alwayes draweth them to this Let vs not alledge saith he disputing against Maximine their Bish neither thou the Council of Ariminium nor I the Councill of Nicee for neyther I am bound to the aucthoritie of that there nor thou to the aucthoritie of this here but let vs dispute by the aucthoritie of the Scriptures which are common witnesses to vs both cause against cause and reason against reason c. All his bookes are ful of such places especially against the Manichees who denyed one part of the Scriptures following the example of Christ who vanquished the Sadduces in the matter of the resurrection specially by the bookes of Moses because they reiected all the others And yet this is he that so astonished all the heretikes of his time that he put them to vtter silence But to the end that they condemne him not for an heretike whome they haue already so sore suspected it is necessarie to see what others doe holde concerning this matter Basil the great woulde that wee examine all doctrines

by this argument as much or more aucthoritie ouer the Scriptures then it I aske of the indifferentest amongest them who shal iudge but the Scriptures And if they iudge the Scriptures who shall pronounce sentence ouer them If the Easte Churches shall then the Romishe Churche hath loste her Cause If the Church of Rome then thys shall hee in another respecte then of keeping the Scriptures If they saye it bee by their pretended prerogatiue of Saynt Peters Seate it is meete that they prooue it by the Scriptures And therefore marke Peters Sea which doeth take vpon it to iudge the Scriptures beyng yet subiecte to the Scripture it selfe Furthermore I praye euerye man to examine this conclusion The Church of GOD hath kept the Scripture The Church beareth witnesse of the Scripture Ergo shee is aboue the Scripture The edictes of a Prince are registred in all his Countries The lawes are gathered together and written by Clarkes All Contractes and bargaines are subsigned by witnesses And yet for all that he that woulde saye that they were aboue the Kinges aboue the lawes contracts hee shoulde make him selfe a laughing stocke If they say that the Lawes of God haue no place neyther more nor lesse then edictes of some Princes except they be agreeable to the worde of God I answere them that it is not the Church of God that hath this priuiledge for shee is the Spouse of Christ and hath learned to obey her husbande without anye examination of his commaundement and must by and by holde her peace assoone as shee heareth his woord For she knoweth also that the wisedome of her husband whose will is the rule of doctrine is not like that of Princes which it is necessarye to examine whether it bee honest and profitable Ciuile or vnciuile but if they be so stiffe for the obteyning of this priuiledge yet let them agree with mee herein that this is that assemblie which hath lyfted vp it selfe aboue all that is called GOD which fearing to bee discomfited by the Spirite of his mouth woulde therefore moussell and stoppe vp hys mouth all that it might The place of Saynt Augustine which they alledge maketh nothing agaynst that which hath bene sayde before I woulde not sayeth hee beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the aucthoritye of the Church constrained or moued me Ni me Ecclesiae Catholicae commoueret authoritas where it is specially to be noted that according to the style of Affricke Commoueret is taken for commouisset that is to say I had not beleeued the Gospell vnlesse the consent of the vniuersall Church had moued mee thereto hee meaneth not that the holy Ghost had not such a style as myght make it selfe sufficientlye knowen from other wrytings of men For he him selfe instructeth vs in this matter in many places Much lesse meaneth hee that the Church shoulde be aboue the Gospell For it is by the Gospell that hee examineth all the Churches of his tyme but rather that the vniuersall consent of the Churches the which receiued such such bookes for the Gospels of Christ made that he could not doubt but that they were so and that the apostles whose names thei did beare were true authours of them No otherwise then as the consent of manye ages acknowledging such and such bookes to be Ciceroes Hippocrates and Platoes doe assure vs that they were theirs These were his very words against the Manichees themselues who denyed part of the holy scriptures in another place Oh vnhappie enemies saith he of your owne soules What Scriptures shal be had in price if the Euangelicall and Apostolicall bee not Of what booke shall men hold the certaine authour if a man doubt that those holy books which the Church holdeth were of the Apostles shoulde not be theirs Who shall knowe whether the bookes of Plato Hippocrates Aristotle Cicero were theirs vnles it be for that frō their time euen vnto ours alwayes mē haue bene perswaded that they came frō hand to hand c. Like as then I beleeue that the books of Manichee are his because men haue beleeued that they came thence frō hand to hand so also I beleeue the booke of S. Matth. because euē vntil vs the church hath so held The questiō is not thē in this place whether the writings of the Apostles haue any voice to determine matters in the church for as we haue already shewed S. Aug. teacheth vs that in a M. places but only whether such and such scriptures were the Apostles yea or no. For the heretikes denied not but that the books of the Apostles had such authority as they must be obeyed but they denyed that they were theirs because that if they had once allowed thē they knew that they must of necessity rest in them And yet they pretēded that they were neuer a whitte lesse the church then the Romane church doth For they helde that Manichee the chiefe of their secte was the holy Ghoste him selfe But this was a blasphemie not yet knowen to the most damnablest heretikes that euer were that the holye Scripture was subiect to the Church and that without her as one of the Popes Chāpions of our time saith it hath no more aucthority thē Esops fables The Iewes haue taught the Gentiles that the Olde Testament was the worde of God and manye of the Gentiles beleeued it better thē the Iewes The Gentiles haue kept for the Christians many good and auncient bookes and haue taught them that such and such were the authours of them and yet for all that they haue not giuen anye credyte vnto them The bookeseller will teach vs that such a booke is Hippocrates woorke and yet for all that hee shall not be a physitian as Hippocrates was For it is one thing to beleeue the word of any some man an other thing to be the authour of a booke This is that which was saide long agoe by a great learned man That the Church is true or vndouted but as we say by occasiō because she beleeueth the trueth of the Scripture but the holye Scripture is simplie true of it selfe For it is the trueth it self There foloweth another argument that the Church is before the Scripture Ergo it is aboue the Scripture When we speake of the Scripture we vnderstand the word of God the which at the first was not written and afterward was written aswell by Gods owne finger as by the pennes of his seruants inspired by his holy spirite as we haue before declared But now I would demaund of them from whence they fetch the beginning of the Church If from the creation of man and before sinne entred immediatly after they were created God gaue them a commaundement that they should not touche the tree of knowledge of good and euill and we must not dispute whether they had authoritie aboue this word for why they hauing disobeyed it all the world from man to beastes sighes and grones for it But will they not

they deeme spoyled him selfe of his Empire to enriche them Chrysost sayeth Whosoeuer of the Bishoppes shall desire primacye in earth he shall find confusiō in heauen he that shall desire to be the chiefe he shall not be reputed in the nomber of the seruaunts of Christ Gregory the great Bishop of Rome when the Bishop of Constātinople would attribute vnto him selfe that Supremacy he sayth not that he doeth wrong to Saint Peter or that hee withholdeth vsurpeth the right of the Bishoppes of Rome but rather he protesteth that this vvas a prophane title full of sacriledge and the fore-running of Antichrist and that this was to say with Lucifer I will ascend aboue the cloudes and will make my selfe equall to the high God. That none of his predecessours tooke vpon them to be aboue their brethren cōpanions And if there vvere any such amongst thē he falling downe al the Church should stūble fal vvith him That this vvere to destroy all christianitie And after many such other woordes he pronounceth this generall sentence That vvhosoeuer shal call himselfe vniuersal Bishop or shall desire to be so called that he is the forerunner of Antichrist forasmuch as through pride he axalteth him selfe aboue all As touching him self he flatly refused it and prayed Eulogius the Bishop of Alexandria not to giue him this proude name Hee acknowledgeth that the Bishoppes of Alexandria and Antioche are as well in Peters chaire as they of Rome to be short that Peter Paul Andrevv Iohn c. they are al particular heads of the people vvhom they gouerne but all members vnder one head vvhich is Christ hovvsoeuer they holde Peter for chiefe amongest them I beseech the readers that they will take paines to reade vpon this matter the epistles of Saint Gregory and there they shall finde the condemnation of this Supremacie more expressely then yet I haue said To conclude the Emperours haue called generall Councils the patriarks and. Metropolitanes those that were Nationall and prouincial They that were Patriarkes euery one was president ouer the See of his patriarchshippe and not the Bishoppe of Rome nor his deputies in general councils The patriarks or chiefe Bishoppes went not to seeke their Palls at Rome but were Canonically elected ouer those places The Bishoppe of Rome as appeareth by those Epistles them selues of Gregorye the great when hee was chosen exhibited vnto them the confession of hys fayth by a Synodall Epistle as they did to him Eche one of them had an Ecclesiasticall iudgement ouer his owne and none appealed from them no not the Bishoppes them selues beyond the Sea who had no Patriarke in the Sea of Rome I demaunde then by what marke they can shewe vs that Supremacy in the aunciēt Primitiue church be it but by the positiue lawe of man And yet notwithstanding wee see the course from time to time and from Councill to Councill vntill the yeere of our LORD sixe hundred and more when Phocas the Emperour killed his master Maurice and inuaded the Empire and to get fauour of the Romanes after so cursed and detestable murther gayned Boniface the third their Bishop declaring him to be head of the Church and Bishoppe of Bishoppes against that that Gregory his predecessour had a litle before so hotelye fought against If the Church had bene so long time without a head what did the members then And if Iesus Christ were the head then why lesse nowe Also whēce commeth it that when the Bishoppe of Rome was not acknowledged for such a one it had such strength and alwayes afterwards grewe weaker and decayed Againe is it not notable that all the auncient Churche was ignorant of so healthfull a doctrine hidden in the holy Scripture and that Boniface the third shoulde be the firste that shoulde fynde it out That such so necessary priuiledges should be concealed for the space of sixe hundred yeeres in the most happy ages and to the most quick sighted persons which euer were That so many Christian Emperors should make no account of it and one Phocas an execrable murtherer should be the first to giue authority vnto it But as the papacie must needes spring of the ruines of Rome the second beast of the Carrion of the first so also must it needes he that the supremacie of the Bishop of Rome as that of the first kings was must bee founded and buylded vpon murther Against these decrees of the generall councills they blush not to alledge vnto vs those goodly bookes of Clement whereof we haue spoken a litle before that same ridiculous epistle of Anaclet That Cephas is asmuch to say as head of the church that same authentical reuelation of Pope Marcellus of Peters seate to be remoued from Antioch to Rome and such other beggerly trumperie of that decree which some euen of their owne side do deride Also certaine other epistles of Pope Leo who laboureth therby asmuch as he can to make vs credit the latine Church But we know that none must be iudge in his owne cause and if as Gerson Panormitan say One lay man may set himselfe hauing the holy Scripture on his side against a vvhole generall councill vvhich erreth from it By a more strong reason maye the whole primitiue Church oppose it selfe all the whole Scripture hauing al the general councils on her side that were for the space of 600. yeres against the tyrānie of one man alone which cannot alledge any thing but his owne ambition yea against the decretall epistles of some Popes yet for the most part but shuffled in vnder the name of some of the auncient fathers I will not denie notwithstanding that a good time the bishops of Rome had not attempted to establishe a spirituall monarchie at Rome according to the example of the temporall which made them to be enuied For the Church of God began by Abel as Saint Augustine saith and Babylon by Cain and likewise it is not to be doubted but that very quicklye after the foundations of the Christian Church were layde Sathan layd also the foundations of Antichrist In Paul his time the mysterie of iniquitie began to worke when one said that hee was of Apollo another that he was of Paul and another of Cephas Victor the bishop of Rome enterprised to excommunicate all Asia for the feast of Easter but he was most liuely reprooued by Irenee Steuen also receiued the schismatiques of Affricke against the Sentence of the Churche that they should not appeale beyond the Sea but Cyprian calleth him proud and ignorant and the councill of Affricke holden about the selfe same time setteth it selfe against him Iulius in the time of Constantine beganne to establishe his Empire but the councill of Nice limitted him his power bringing him to the bound and skantling of others Yea in the sixth council of Carthage where Saint Augustine was present three bishops of Rome one after another