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A47851 Dissenters sayings the second part : published in their own words, for the information of the people : and dedicated to the Grand-jury of London, August 29, 1681 / by Roger L'Estrange. L'Estrange, Roger, Sir, 1616-1704. 1681 (1681) Wing L1245; ESTC R2228 59,550 94

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Abihu and Saul will intermeddle with Gods Warrant as she Q. Eliz. hath done with matters of Religion with God's matters she must think it no Injury to be Disobey'd Soldier of Berwick Cited by the Author of an Answer to a Factious Libel Entitled An Abstract of several Acts of Parliament c. 2 Kings no less then the Rest must obey and yield to the Just Authority of the Ecclesiastical Magistrates Ecclesiastical Discip. P. 142. 3 The Consistory may and ought to admonish the Magistrate which is negligent in Punishing Vice Danaeus Par. 2. Isag. li. 2. Cap. 62. And also may upon Knowledge of the Cause taken Excommunicate even the Chief Magistrate unto the which he ought to submit himself Ibid. ca. 67. 4 Princes must remember to subject themselves to the Church and to submit their Scepters to throw down their Crowns before the Church yea to Lick the dust of the Feet of the Church T. Cartwright P. 645. 5 Every Eldership is the Tribunal Seat of Christ. Beza de Presb. P. 124. 6 The Holy Discipline ought to be set up and All Princes to submit themselves under the Yoke of it What Prince King or Emperour shall Disanul the same he is to be reputed Gods Enemy and to be held unworthy to Reign above his People Knox Exhort to Eng. P. 91. c. 7 Our Church-History tells that Mr. Andrew Melvin that Faithful and Zealous Servant of Christ would not answer before the King and the Council for his Alledged Treasonable Discourse in a Sermon until he had first given in a Plain and Formal Protestation and the like was done by Worthy Mr. David Blake upon the like occasion and the Protestation was Approved and Signed by a good Part of the Church of Scotland 1596. Hist. Indul. P. 14. 8 The Irreligiousness Antichristianism and Exorbitancy of this Explicatory and as to some things Ampliatory Act and Assertion of the Kings Supremacy in Church-Affairs of Nov. 16. 1669 this Supra-Papal Supremacy Hist. Indul. P. 27. 9 The Accepters of the Indulgence are Chargeable with High Treason against the King of Kings our Lord Iesus Christ. Hist. Indul. p. 86. 10 Christ breaks and moulds Commonwealths at his Pleasure He hath not spoke much in his Word how long they shall last or what he intends to do with them Only this That all Kings and Kingdoms that make War against the Church shall be broken a pieces and that in the end All the Kingdoms of the World shall be the Kingdoms of our Lord and his Saints and they shall reign over them Marshal to the Commons June 15. 1643. p. 47. 11 What was our Posture and Practice after we had so stupidly stood by till we saw the whole work overturn'd without offering to Interpose effectually to prevent its ruine or to fall with it Hist. of Indulgence Pref. 1678. Speaking of the Action of Bothwell-Bridge 12 The Father having given to Christ all Power both in Heaven and in Earth and the Rule and Regiment of this Kingdom he hath Committed to Monarchies Aristocracies or Democracies as the several Combinations and Associations of the People shall between themselves think good to Elect and Erect God leaves People to their own Liberty in this Case Case on Isaiah 43. 4. p. 26. 13 They were carrying on a Malignant Interest to wit The Establishing the King in the Exercise of his Power in Scotland and the Re-investing him with the Government in England when he had not yet Abandoned his Former Enmity to the Work and People of God and the securing of Power in their own hands under him Gillespies Useful Case of Conscience p. 66. 14 There was a sin in the Peoples Joyning because few or none of those who did Joyn did give any Testimony against the Magistrates Employing of the Malignant Party Ibid. 15 After the Treaty was brought to some close the King did before his coming to Sea Receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper from one of the Prelatical Chaplains and according to the Service-Book c. notwithstanding the Commissioners of the Kirk did represent the Evil thereof to him Gillespies Useful Case of Conscience Discuss'd p. 56. Another Exception That the King did not think his Father Guilty of Blood Ibid. 16 Was there not Cause to Scruple at the taking of this Oath of Allegeance which would have Imported 1. A Condemning of the Convention of Estates in Scotland 1643. 2. A Condemning of the Parliaments An. 1640. 41. 44. 45. 46. 47. 48. As also the Committees and Parliaments thereafter An. 1649. 1650. 1651. 3. A Condemning of all the Acts made by These Parliaments 4. A Condemning of all the Meetings Councils and Conventions of the Subjects at the beginning of the Late work of Reformation 5. A Condemning of the League and Covenant 6. A Condemning of Scotlands Joyning with and Helping of England in the day of their streight 7. A Condemning of the Renewing of the National Covenant 1638. 1639. 8. A Condemning of the General Assembly 1638. and several others thereafter 9. A Condemning of Scotlands Rising in Arms in their own Defence against the Popish Prelatical and Malignant Party 10. A Condemning of their seizing upon Forts and Castles in their own Defence An Apol●…getical Relation of the Sufferings of the Scotch Ministers 1665. p. 127. 128. 17 We ought to consider the Conditions of the Kings Letter of Indulgence to the Kirk Iune 7. 1669. what is accounted living Peaceably and Orderly by such as propose this Qualification And that sure to speak it in the smoothest of Ter●…s is a Negative Compliance with all their Tyranny Oppression of Church and Country Blood-shed Overturning of the Work of God Establishing Iniquity by Law Perjury Apostacy Re-establishing of Perjur'd Prelates and Abjured Prelacy Hist. of Indulg p. 7. 18 We Remarque further that the Letter saith that none of these Ministers have any Seditious Discourses or Expressions in Pulpit or Elsewhere And what is understood here by Seditious Discourses or Expressions we cannot be Ignorant But now what Conscientious Ministers can either Tacitly promise such a thing or upon the Highest Peril forbear to Utter such Discourses Or who can think that any such thing can be yielded unto who considereth what God requireth of Ministers in Reference to a Corrupted and Apostatized state And what the weight of the Blood of Souls is Hist. Indul. p. 11. 19 The Unparallel'd Perfidy and Breach of Covenant The most Abominable Irreligious Inhumane and Tyrannical Acts made for Establishing of this Wicked Course of Defection Hist. Indul. p. 12. 20 Christ and his Apostles were the Greatest of Conventicle Preachers and almost Preached no other way wanting always the Authority of the Supream Magistrate and yet not waiting upon their Indulgence Hist. Indul. p. 17. 21 They have power to Abrogate and Abolish all Statues and Ordinances concerning Ecclesiastical matters that are found Noysom and Unprofitable and agree not with the time or are abused by the People 2 Book of Discipline cap. 7. To
Discipline must all the Estates within this Realm be Subject as well the Rulers as they that are Ruled 1 Lib. Disc. cap. 7. 22 As the Ministers and others of the Ecclesiastical State are subject to the Magistrate-Civil so ought the Person of the Magistrate be subject to the Kirk Spiritually and in Ecclesiastical Government 2 Lib. Disc. c. 1. 23 As Ministers are Subject to the Judgment and Punishment of the Magistrate in External things if they offend so ought the Magistrates to submit themselves to the Discipline of the Kirk if they transgress in matters of Conscience and Religion Ibid. 24 The National Assemblies of This Country called commonly the General Assemblies ought always to be retained in their own Liberty and have their own place with Power to the Kirk to appoint Times and Places and Convenient for the same And all men as well Magistrates as Inferiors to be subject to the Judgment of the same in Ecclesiastical Causes without any Reclamation or Appellation to any Judge Civil or Ecclesiastical within the Realm 2 Lib. Disc. c. 12. 25 The Princes and Magistrates not being Exemed and these that are Placed in the Ecclesiastical Estate Rightly Ruling Governing God shall be Glorified c. 2 Lib. Disc. c. 13. 26 The Ministers Exerce not the Civil Jurisdiction but teach the Magistrate how it should be Exercised according to the word 27 To Disobey or Resist any that God hath placed in Authority while they pass not over the Bounds of their office we Confess or Affirm to be sin Large Confess Art 15. 28 We Confess and Avow that such as resist the Supream Power doing that thing which appertaineth to his Charge do resist God's Ordinance and therefore cannot be Guiltless Ibid. Art 25. 29 Blasphemy Adultery Murder Perjury and other Crimes Capital worthy of death ought not properly to f●…ll under Censure of the Kirk because all such open Transgressors of Gods Law ought to be taken away by the Civil Sword 1 Book of Discip. cap. 7. 30 In the fear of God we signifie unto your Honours that whosoever persuades you that ye may pardon where God Commandeth Death deceives your Souls and provokes you to offend God's Majesty 1 Book of Disc. cap. 9. 31 The Magistrate Commandeth External things for external Peace and Quietness among the Subjects The Minister handleth External things only for Conscience-cause 2 Lib. Disc. cap. 1. 32 If the Offender abide an Assise and by the same be Absolved then may not the Church pronounce Excommunication but justly may exhort the man by whose hand the Blood was shed to enter into Consideration with himself how precious is the Life of man before God and how severely God commandeth Blood howsoever it be shed except it be by the Sword of the Magistrate to be punished And so may Enjoyn unto him such satisfaction to be made publick to the Church as may bear Testification of his obedience and unfeigned Repentance Psalm-Book in the order of Excommunication 33 Wanton and Vain words Uncomly Gestures Negligence in hearing the Preaching or Abstaining from the Lords Table when it is publiquely Ministred suspicion of Avarice or of Pride Superfluity or Riotousness in Chear or Raiment These We say and such others that of the world are not regarded deserve admonition amongst the Members of Christs Body If he continues Stubborn then the Third Sunday ought he to be Charged Publiquely to satisfie the Church for his Offence and Contempt under the pain of Excommunication Psalm Book in the Order of Publique Repentance 34 It is Ordained that every Thursday the Ministers and Elders in their Assembly or Consistory diligently Examine all such faults and suspicions as may be espied not only amongst others but chiefly amongst themselves Psalm-Book Sect. of the weekly Assembly 35 In every Notable Town we Require that one day beside the Sunday be appointed to the Sermon and Prayers which during the time of Sermon must be kept from all Exercise of Labour as well of the Master as the Servant 1 Lib. Disc. cap. 9. of Policy Notes on §. 8. THere can be no better Antidote against the Poyson of a Presbyteria●… Government than the very Orders of their Discipline which are the most Unanswerable Condemnation of the Party You have here a more than Papal Tyranny in the Usurpations of the Kirk over Kings and Princes in the 6 first Clauses Treason it self exempted from the Cognizance of the Civil Power Num. 7. The Kings Supremacy not only disclaimed but the bare acknowledgment of it made Criminal 8 9 All the Governments of the World subjected to the Holy Discipline and Rebellion it self abetted and maintained 10 11 Sovereign Power Vested in the Multitude 12 The Restoring of the King Condemn'd 13 14 And the Objections against it his receiving the Sacrament from a Prelatical hand according to the Order of the Church and the Charging his Father with the Guilt of Blo●…d 15 The Taking of the O●…th of Allegiance and the Acceptance of the Kings Indulgence pronounced utterly Unlawful 17 18 19 Conventicle-Preachers Warranted from the Precedent of Christ and his Apostles 20 The Ministers above their Sovereign 21 22 23 24. Princes upon their Good Behaviour and accountable to the Presbytery if they transgress their Bounds 25 26 27 28. The Power of Life and Death taken from the Magistrate 29 3●… The Minister Us●…rps the Civil Power 31 The Presbytery take upon them to punish Malefactors when the Law has acquitted them 32 And call People to account for their very Thoughts Cloaths Gestures nay a suspition is enough to make a body lyable to their Censure 33 They make Two Sabba●…hs in the Week more than God ever Commanded and by the same Authority they may set apa●…t all the rest 34. 35. This is enough said to shew the Shameful and Intolerable Rigour of that Government §. 9. Principles and Positions 1 WHEN the Supream Magistrate will not Execute the Judgment of the Lord those who made him Supream Magistrate under God who have under God Sovereign Liberty to dispose of Crowns and Kingdoms are to Execute the Judgment of the Lord when Wicked men make the Law of God of none Effect 1 Sam. 15. 32. so Samuel killed Ag●…g whom the Lord expresly Commanded to be kill'd because Saul disobey'd the Voice of the Lord. Lex Rex p. 173. 2 Shall it Excuse the States to say We could not judge the Cause of the Poor nor Crush the Priests of Baal and the Idolatrous Mass Prelates because the King forbad us Lex Rex p. 175. 3 The Kings Power is Fiduciary and put in his hand upon Trust and must be Ministerial and borrow'd from those who put him in trust and so his Power must be Less and derived from the Parliament Lex Rex p. 177. 4 The Magistrate hath no Power to suppose things Doubtful and Disputable upon the Practice of any in the Service of God and therefore it cannot be lawful for any to obey him when
so many Consecrated Murders which are only wrapt up in Scripture Phrases as the Execution of Judgment Justice running down like a stream c. And the Wickedness looks then as if it were Hallow'd which is no more in short then playing the Devil in Gods name and dedicating the Oblation of Humane Sacrifices to the Everliving God as to an Insensible Idol But to what end serves Argument in the face of so many Pregnant and Undeniable Proofs It is true or not that what I have here recited is an Authentique Evidence both for the Words and for the Authors of them And if the matter of Fact be honestly reported let but any man consider if we follow these Guides whither they 'l carry us at last and how great a scandal 't is to Christianity to suffer such Hearts and Hands as these to serve at the Altar §. 13. The Murder of the King Encourag'd 1 THOSE mine Enemies which would not that I should Reign over them bring hither and slay them before me Let me see them Executed KINGS Rulers People Conspiring Rebellion against the Lord and against his Christ. Maynard to the Commons Octob. 28. 1646. p. 15. 2 Let us he Active against the KINGS and Prince of the Earth those Claws of the cruel Beast Feak at Black Friers Sept. 1●… 1653. 3 The Quarrel is not now with us only de Terminis La●…tibus touching Bounds or Land-marks touching Privileges and Liberties but whether Christ shall Reign over us or we shall basely y●…ld our Necks under the Yoke of Anti-Christ Pet. Smith May 2●… 1644. p. 42. 4 The King is fallen from Faith in thee and become an Enemy to thy Church Is it not He that has Sinned and done Evil indeed but as for these Sheep what have they done Let thy hand we pray thee O Lord our God be on him and on his Fathers House but not on thy People that they shall be Plagu'd A Lecturer in South-hampton Aug. 1643. 5 Nothing has so much deceived the world as the Name of KING which is the ground of all Mischiefs in the Church of Christ. Corb●… a Lecturer in Glocester-shire Iuly 1644. 6 O Lord if thou wilt not Eless us with a King Bless us without one ●…arkin a Lecturer in Greenwich Iune 31. 1●…44 7 Neither let your eyes spare though there are Great ones that are Guilty The Highest Court may reach the Highest Persons Causes and not Persons are to be heard in your Parliament Heyrick to the Commons May 27. 1646. p. 23. 8 God will make the Sons of Princes bow down unto ye The Greatest that have Afflicted ye and Despised ye shall lye at your feet Id. p. 31. 9 If the KING be a Murderer Adulterer or an Idolater he shall suffer according to Gods Law not as a King but as an Offender Knox Hist. 392. 10 When Great Delinquents go unpunished Divine Providence is brought to the Bar and question'd Greenhill to the Commons April 26. 1643. p. 34. 11 This Arrow Prayer will find a Joynt in Ahabs Armour 1 King 22. 34. Draw this Arrow as Iehu did against Iehoram with your full strength and doubt not but it will in Gods time smite our Romish Iehoram at the heart 2 King 9. 24. and sink him in his Chariot and Chair of Pride Green to the Commons April 24. 1644. pag. 17. 12 Oh Right Honourable take Glorious Resolutions to your selves though your Fathers may stand before you and your Brethren and Friends press about you though your Mother should hang on you I mean the nearest Relations throw down the one and break through the other and trample upon the third that your souls may cleave to the ways of God to the ways of Justice and Righteousness You know the Rule is Fiat Iustitia Ruat Mundus Brooks to the Commons Decemb. 26. 1648. p. 15. Ah Right Honourable As you would not have your Services thrown as dung in your Faces look that Justice and Judgment run down as a mighty stream Ibid. p. 19. Right Honourable Guilty Persons that be by you sinfully acquitted their Sin God will charge upon your account And therefore as you would not have the Guilt of other mens sins upon you hold on in the way of well doing Let Justice and Judgment run down as mighty streams Ibid. p. 18. 13 Phinehas is the Man that Executes Judgment a Man unthought of for such a Service Hence observe that when God hath work to do he can find our Work-men A Phinehas with Zeal in his heart and a Iavelin in his hand to thrust through the Proudest Zimries and Cosbies the most daring Sinners Staunton to the Commons Octob. 30. 1644. p. 9. 14 When Esther was advanc'd she would not lose her opportunities she will in to the King although contrary to a Law She will have the Liberty of her People and Hamans head off and venture her Life to accomplish it If I Perish I Perish Iosiah Hezekiah took their opportunities and made a thorough Reformation in Iudah You know what great things Elijah did Inspiciente Reluctante Rege Greenhill to the Commons April 26. 1643. p. 48. 15 When the Kings of the Earth have given their Power to the Beast these Choice Soldiers will be so faithful to the King of Kings as to oppose the Beast though Armed with King-like Power Cheynel to the Commons May 31. 1643 p. 10. 16 You see the Faithful People make no scruple at all of Fighting against the Beast though their Enemies were like enough to say that by Fighting against the Beast they did Rebel against their own Kings Id. Ibid. 17 Others say Rebellion against the King is the cause of Judgment upon the Nation but rather the not Timous Rising to help the Lord and his oppressed People against the Mighty is the cause Rutherford to the Lords June 25. 1645. p. 44. Notes on §. 13. WE have now brought ye step by step from the Blind and Pretext of a Reformation to the Highest pitch of Wickedness and the Train was both laid and fir'd in the Pulpit Undutiful thoughts bring forth Seditious words and those Seditious words are naturally follow'd with Violent and Treasonous actions and when People come once to be Plung'd into a Rebellion all other sins even of the highest magnitude flow like streams into that Ocean till at last mens Consciences grow C●…llous and Obdurate as under a Iudicial Reprobation It could never be else if it may be said without offence to Charity that so many of the Principal and known Actors in the late Execrable Tragedy should now wipe their mouths after it and fall so comfortably to the old work again without any sort of Reluctancy or Remorse But it will be said perhaps that it was not so much a thirst after the Blood of their Sovereign that pusht them forward to these Extremities but that they were forc'd upon desperate Courses by their Interest and Despairs This would be a sorry excuse God knows for Committing
Contributions for all his Payments and Hazards I say he is blind I say his heart is not right with God Marshal to both Houses Jan. 18. 1643. p. 20. All Christendom except the Malignants in England do now see that the Question in England is whether Christ or Anti-Christ shall be Lord and King Ibid. p. 21. 17 Q. Whether the whole Kirk of Scotland in their Letters sent to the King at Oxford as in Mays History hath not judged the late King Guilty of the Blood of Thousands of his best Subjects And if so whether the Laws of God or Man give any Pardon or Dispensation to Kings more than to others If not whether his Judges are not sufficient to justifie it Valley of Achor Q. 8. Q. Whether beside the Guilt of Blood contracted upon himself in the Wars of England and Scotland he was not also Guilty of the Blood of Ireland Ibid. Q. 9. 18 No Sober and Impartial Person can Condemn their Position who denying that a Tyrannous Magistrate was the Minister of God to them for their Good did plainly assert the Lawfulness of Self-defence and Holy Reformation without the Violation of the Ordinance of God Naphtali p. 30. 19. As he The late King to acquit himself hath not spar'd his Adversaries to load them with all sorts of blame and accusation so to him as in his Books alive there will be us'd no more Courtship than he uses but what is properly his own Guilt not imputed any more to his Evil Councellors a Ceremony us'd longer by the Parliament than he himself desired shall be laid here without Circumlocutions at his own door That they who from the first beginning or but now of late by what Unhappiness I know not are so much affatuated not with his Person only but with his palpable faults and dote upon his Deformities may have none to blame but their own folly if they live and dye in such a strucken blindness as next to that of Sodom hath not happen'd to any sort of men more gross or more misleading Miltons 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pref. 20 The People exorbitant and excessive in all their motions are prone oft-times not to a Riligious only but to a Civil kind of Idolatry in Idolizing their Kings though never more mistaken in the Object of their Worship heretofore being wont to repute for Saints those Faithful and Couragious Barons who lost their lives in the Field making glorious War against Tyrants for the Common Liberty as Simon de Momfort Earl of Leicester against Henry the Third Thomas Plantagenet Earl of Lancaster against Edward the Second But now with a Besotted and Degenerate baseness of spirit except some few who yet retain in them the Old English Fortitude and love of Freedom and have testifi'd it by their matchless deeds the rest Embastardiz'd from the ancient Nobleness of their Ancestors are ready to fall flat and give adoration to the Image and Memory of this Man who hath offer'd at more fetches to undermine our Liberties and put Tyranny into an Art than any Brittish King before him Ibid. Pref. 21 Whosoever sheddeth Man's Blood by Man shall his Blood be shed we find here no exception If a King therefore do this to a King and that by men also the same shall be done Ibid. pag. 229. 22 To have brought the King to Condign Punishment hath not broke the Covenant but it would have broke the Covenant to have sav'd him from those Judicatories which both Nations declar'd in that Covenant to be Supream against any person whatsoever Ibid. p. 237. God hath testifi'd by all propitious and evident designs whereby in these latter times he is wont to testifie what pleases him that such a solemn and for many Ages unexampled act of due Punishment was no mockery of Justice but a most grateful and well-pleasing Sacrifice Neither was it to cover their Perjury as he accuses but to uncover his Perjury to the Oath of his Coronation Ibid. 23 This is the Cause of the Kingdom the King should have helpt c. but did not then it became the Duty of the Parliament to have relieved the Kingdom but they did not her necessities great and many Petitions concerning them were slighted and burnt waited many years for help our Oppressions not removed all complain dangers encrease no remedy appears they not help us nor tell us how long it will be before this Parliament will be at an end that we may have another to see if they will help us when all falls no ground of hope of life is left danger eminent and no other means of help left this is a cause of Necessity Now it 's the duty of the Army to help and if they had not it had been their sin if not their overthrow if they had suffer'd it to Perish the Kingdom had been well holpen up with a remedy in extremity An Answer to John Geree c. 1649. p. 4. 24 As to the Blood of the King I have not in the least any Guilt lying upon me for I have many a time sought the Lord with tears to know if I have done amiss in 't but 't was rather confirm'd that the thing was more of God than of Men. Nine Mens Speeches Harrison p. 2. I go to suffer upon the account of the most glorious Cause that ever was in the world Ibid. p. 6. Blessed be the Name of God that I have a Life to lose upon so Glorious and so Honourable an account p. 10. 25 I dye not in the Lord only but for the Lord and think not that this Blessed Cause shall be lost for it shall reach to the end of the Earth Think not your Prayers lost for your Prayers and Tears with our Blood shall come down shortly upon Babylon Mr. Carew's Speech p. 15. 26 I cannot Confess any Guilt It is such a Cause that the Martyrs would gladly come again from Heaven to suffer for if they might I look upon it as the most Noble and High act of Justice that our Story can parallel Nine Mens Speeches Cook p. 41. 27 I Bless Gods Name he hath engaged me in a Cause not to be Repented of Scott Ibid. p. 71. 28 In all that is past I could never yet suffer so much as a wish to pass through my thoughts Oh that I had not been engaged in this thing Or that I had before Forty-eight deserted this Cause Barkstead to a Friend Three Mens Speeches 29 I do believe at long-run there is not a man that Fears the Lord will have any reason to be sorrowful for engaging in that Good Old Cause which I am now to Seal with my Blood again as I have many a time done I am satisfied in my soul that it is a most Just and Glorious Cause c. Three Mens Speeches Coll. Okey 30 As it is unquestionably lawful on serious and real grounds to Depose and do Justice on Kings and Princes as other Magistrates so never was there a greater and more