all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger doth recant The third article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Shew me why our common knowen Church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteyned in the same THere may be diuers good reasons shewed why your Church commonly knowen to be the church of Antichrist did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteined therein First because she coulde not the copies thereof being so many by the prouidence of God dispersed throughout the worlde Secondly because she thought it not so needefull hauing other meanes to worke her deuilish deuise For although she coulde not corrupt the scripture yet it made the lesse matter because she founde meanes to diminish and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men Popes and Councells to be equall or of greater authoritie than the scripture Thirdly because she woulde be lesse in feare to be reproued by the scripture she prouided that the knowledge thereof shoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a strange tongue and from the learned by the tedious mazes of questions deuised by her Canonistes and Sententiaries Fourthly because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture to her owne iudgement and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof but woulde alwayes expound it as it liked her best As appeareth by Ockam and Duns who though they confesse that transubstantiation seemeth to them contrary to the scripture and reason yet they beleued it because of the authoritie of the church and for none other cause These are the reasons why the Romish church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testamēt as the true Religion And yet how corrupt that Latine translation is which they woulde needes thrust vpō vs is sufficiently knowen to all learned men euen in such texts as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine I will geue one example for all They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat videat ne cadat He that standeth let him take heede he fall not against the certainetie of faith whereas the Greeke hath not he that standeth but he that thinketh he standeth let him take heede he fall not Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her selfe from corrupting of the text of the Testament whether it was of fraude or of ignorance or of negligence the Lorde knoweth 2 Shew me why she kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe BEcause it was against her owne estimation and profit which are the chiefe endes for which popish Prelates mainteyne popish religion Take away the Popes prerogatiue which is contrary to the sense of God his word downe goe Cardinalls Legates Prothonotaries downe goeth all the Court of Rome take away workes of supererogation which are contrary to the Scripture downe goe Abbeys Priories and Chantries Take away the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatory which are contrary to the word of God downe goeth the estimation and gaynes of all the popish clergie And this is the cause why the popish church kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe although she preserued not the word it self in such safetie as becommed the Church of Christ 3 Shew me why we should beleue the Papistes as you terme them for the word it self and rather you Protestants thā them for the meaning of the word WE doe not chalenge credit to our selues in any poynt so presumptuously as the Papistes that men must beleue it because we affirme it But because we proue it to be true by the worde of god And therefore for the meaning of the word you should beleue vs rather than them because our groundes proues are better then theirs or else we require not to be beleued better than they 4 Shew me why you beleued our Church telling you this to be God his booke will not credit her auouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke IF we had no better ground to perswade vs of the authoritie of God his booke than the testimony of your Church you may be sure we would not beleue it But because we haue most stedfast assurance of God his spirite for the authority of that booke with the testimony of the true Church in all ages If you say it is God his booke we beleue you not because you say so but because we know it to be true But if you bring out a false sense we beleue you not because we know it to be false are able to proue by the word of God that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost To be plaine with you we geue as much credit to your Church as to the deuill When the deuill sayth it is written He shall giue his angells charge ouer thee and with their handes they shall hold thee vp that thou dash not thy foote against a stone We beleue that this is the worde of god But when he auoucheth this to be the meaning of it that we may cast downe our selues from a Church steeple without daunger we doe not beleue him because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture which sayth Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these wordes are the Scripture of God This is my body We beleue it because we knowe it to be true But when you say this is the meaning of these wordes This bread is turned into my naturall bodye we beleue you not because it is contrary to all places of Scripture which proue the trueth of Christ his humanitie or naturall body Thus I shewe you why we beleue you if you say the Scripture is God his word namely because we know it to be true why we beleue
rather to seeke her in his words which is the Truth and best knoweth his owne body So the question is at this daye betwen the Papistes and vs where the church is let vs seeke in God his worde there we shall easily finde her To the same intent he speaketh in the third fiueth and sixtenth Chapters of the same treatise Furthermore that he woulde haue heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures he sheweth likewise in many places of his workes for writing against Maximinus the Arian lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited he sayeth but nowe neither must I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice nor then the Councell of Arimine for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one nor you of the other but let matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason contend by authoritie of the scriptures not proper to any but indifferent witnesses to both partes If Augustine would not oppresse the Arrians by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell which was the first and the best generall Councell that euer was but only by the scriptures how much lesse woulde he charge them with other authorities that the Papistes alleage beside the authoritie of holy scriptures And in his booke De Vnitate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes the 16 chapter Sed vtrū ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum scripturarum Canonicis libris ostendant quia nec nos c. But whether they holde the church or no let them shew none other wise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not say that men ought to beleue vs that we are in the Church because we holde that Church which Optatus of Mileuitum or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable other Byshops of our communion haue commended to vs or because it is set forth by the Councels of our felowe byshops or because so many myracles of hearing requests or healinges are don in the holy places which our fellowship doth frequent in the whole worlde so that the bodies of Martyrs which were hidden so many yeares which thinge if they will aske they may heare of many were reuealed vnto Ambrose and that at the same bodies one that had bene many yeares blinde very well knowen in the citie of Millayn receyued his eyes and eye sight either because this man dreamed or that man was rauished in the spirite and hearde a voice that he should not ioyne himselfe to Donatus or that he shoulde departe from the faction of Donatus for when soeuer such thinges are don in the Catholike Church they are to be allowed because they are don in the Catholike church but the church it selfe is not therfore proued to be Catholike because these thinges are done in it By this Augustine declareth first that heretikes must be confuted onely by the scriptures and secondly that neither Councells succession of byshops vniuersality miracles visions dreames nor reuelations are the notes to trie the Catholike church but onely the scriptures Moreouer in his booke De Pastoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Ecclesiam c. A weake person seeketh the Church he wandreth and seeketh the church what sayest you The church is of Donatus side Enquire for the shepheards voice Reade me this out of some Prophet reade me this out of some Psalme rehearse me it out of the lawe rehearse it out of the Gospell rehearse it out of the Apostle out of them do I rehearse the Church dispersed ouer all the worlde And a litle after Tu accusas non Euangelium c. Thou accusest not the Gospell thou accusest not the Prophet not the Apostle of whome this voyce speaketh to me I beleue him other I beleue not But thou wilt bring forth decrees I will also bring forth decrees shoulde I beleue thine beleue thou mine likewise I beleue not thine neither do thou beleue mine then let mens writings be layd away and let Gods worde sounde betwen vs bring me one place of scripture for Donatus side c. These places maye sufficiently declare by what meanes this doctor thought the Church shoulde ouerthrowe heresies namely by the worde of God onely which thing also Leo the first byshop of Rome in his epist. 10. ad Fabianum contra Eutychen plainely confesseth saying Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cum ad cognoscendam veritatem c. But those men fal into this foly which when they are hindred by any doubt to knowe the trueth haue not recourse to the voyces of the Prophets not to the writings of the Apostles not to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues And therefore they become maisters of error because they haue not bene schollers of trueth Of the same iudgement was the whole Councell of Constantinople the sixt as appeare Actione 18. Si igitur omnes simpliciter c. Therefore if all men from the beginning woulde haue simply and without subtiltie taken vpon them the preaching of the Gospell and haue bene content with the constitutions of the Apostles suerly matters shoulde haue bene well and in good case neither shoulde painefull contention haue bene exercised against the authors of heresies nor against the fauorers of priests Here the Councell confesseth that the heretikes and schismatikes grow so fast because they were not beaten downe by preaching of the Gospell and authority of the scriptures Thus I haue declared by example and authority of these Fathers that the true Church of Christ hath conuicted all heretikes onely by the scripture 2 And what Church it was that hath alwayes stande still and stedfast whilest all other Congregations as well of Arrians as Anabaptistes Aerians Nouatians Vigilantians Iouinians and the rest haue decaied THe true Church of Christ hath alwayes stoode stedfast and vnseparable from Christ her heade when all heretikes haue bene and shal be confounded But the true Church hath not alwaies florished in wordly peace and tranquilitie for vntill the tyme of Constantine the great which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had small rest from cruell persecution in most places and soone after againe vnder the Emperors Constantius Constans and Valons it was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius what time also Tiberius Bishop of Rome was infected with the same heresie After that when Iulianus the Apostata was Emperor the temples of Idolls were opened and gentilitie againe restored so that the Church suffered great detriment To be short when the barbarous Goathes Vandales Alanes and other Idolatrous or heretical nations destroyed the Empire the Church of God suffered a great Ecclipse But when Mahomet in the East Antichrist the Pope in the West seduced the world with most detestable heresie then was fulfilled that which was reuealed to S. Iohn in the 12. of the Apocalyps the woman clothed with the Sonne which you your self confesse to be the Church was so persecuted by the Dragon that she fled into the wildernes there to remaine a long season Where she hath not decayed but ben always
maintenance of yours I will let you vnderstande what I haue reade for this purpose Not doubting but other which haue reade much more and seene more auncient histories than I can shew you a great deale more I passe ouer as to well knowen how many of the Grecian Emperors resisted the setting vp of Images in so much that in the Greeke church to this daye they can abide none in their temples likewise I passe ouer Charles the great who wrote a booke against Images which is in printe who also declared that he liked not the heresie of the reall presence and transubstantiation which in his time was in forging in that he called Bertrame to declare his minde of that matter as appeareth by his booke which is also in printe I will not rehearse those princes that contrary to the Popes lawes defended their priestes that were maried For although these and such like defended some parte of the trueth which we holde against you yet lest you should obiect it was but in some one or two pointes I passe them ouer with silence But VVickleue I wene you will not deny but he was of our Church and Religion And I reade that king Edward the third both in his Parliament holden Anno Domini 1371. and at other times with diuers other noble men defended his cause in so much that so long as he liued all the popish byshops coulde do him no harme yet did he openly inueigh against the Pope calling him Antichrist and all popish doctrine without any couller or dissimulatiō both in the vniuersitie of Oxeford where he was reader and also in his sermons abroade as appeareth by his bookes and English homilies which yet are cōmon to be seene w vnlesse he had bene supported and maintained by the kinge and other potentates coulde neuer haue continued so long as he did Further haue you not hearde of Zisca and Procopius two mighty Capitaines which defended the Bohemians from the tyrannie both of the Emperour the Pope and almost all the Princes of Germanie For what cause did Paule the second Anno Domini 1466. condemne George a noble and a worthy Prince king of Bohemia for an heretike and depriued him of his kingdome was it not for defending the Protestantes in his dominion Thus you see that some Princes and Potentates haue not onely offered but haue in deed taken in hand to defend our church which you thought vnable to be shewed wherfore I chalenge your promise you must recante The 11. article is so confuse that it is harde to bring it into any certeine numbre of demandes 1 Againe I requier of the Protestants to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelihoode when the true church as they compt theirs decayed I Answer euen in the Apostles time there arose many heresies which did not a litle trouble the Church but immediatly after the Apostles time while the fathers of the church were earnestly occupied in resisting of horrible heresies by the craft of Satan some errors and abuses crept into the true Church of Christ which at the first because they were small and men occupied in greater matters were either not espied or not regarded as may be knowen by the writinges of Iustinus Martyr and Irenaeus two of the most auncient writers sence the Apostles time Iustinus was in this error that he thought that the Angells lusted after women and therefore were turned into Deuills It seemeth also that the Church in his time was in some error about second mariages and diuorcements Irenaeus affirmeth that our Sauiour Christ liued here 50. yeares which he sayeth was receyued of them that heard it euen of the Apostles mouthes Also both he and Papias which was before him and was the disciple of S. Iohn are charged by S. Ieronym in Catalogo Script Eccl to haue held this error that Christ should raigne a thousand yeares after the Resurrection here in the flesh whereby it is manifest seeing these auncient fathers and pillers of the Church were thus stayned with errors that the Church in their time could not be free from the same And so it is euident that the true Church decayed immediatly after the Apostles times 2 VVhat yeare the Religion of the Papistes came in and preuayled ALthough many abuses and corruptions were entred into the church of Christ immediatly after the Apostles time which the deuill planted as a preparatiue for his eldest sonne Antichrist Yet we may well say that the religion of the Papistes came in and preuailed that yeare in which the Pope first obteyned his Antichristian exaltation which was in the yeare of our Lord 607. when Boniface the third for a great summe of mony obteyned of Phocas the trayterous murtherer and adulterous Emperour that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted the head of all the Church Since that time that deuilish heresie hath alwayes increased in error vntill the yeare of our Lord 1414. in which the Councell of Constance decreed to robbe the people of the Sacrament of Christ his blood From this time it hath againe decaied being mightely subdued by the bright beames of the Gospell shining in the world and at the length shall be vtterly destroyed 3 VVhether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none could preach against it as it first entred WHen the cōming of Antichrist was in all power of lying signes and wonders in so much that if it were possible the very elect should be deceiued and a general departing from the faith was foreshewed and the Church to be driuen into the wildernes what maruell were it if none of our Church could preach against it as it first entred yet because you speake of the first entring of popish religion which dependeth chiefly vpon the Popes authoritie you shall heare that when it first began to aduaunce it selfe there wanted not some either to preach or write against it When Victor bishop of Rome about the yeare of our Lord 200. passed the bondes of his authoritie in excommunicating of all the Churches of Asia many bishops withstoode him and especially Irenaeus bishop of Lyons and Policrates of Ephesus as witnesseth Eusebius libro 5. cap. 25. Eccle. S. Cyprian also reproueth Cornelius bishop of Rome for that he was moued by threatning of heretikes to receiue their letters did not send them backe into Africa to their own bishop lib. 1. Ep. 3. Also when Stephanus bishop of Rome was bold to communicate with Basilides and Martialis two Spamards that were iustly excommunicated and deposed by the bishops of their owne prouince sought to restore them Cyprian and his felow bishops of Aphrica being required to giue their aduise gaue counsell that in no wise they shoulde be receiued not a litle blaming Stephanus that beinge far of and ignorant of their cause he would take vpon him to defend such wicked men lib. 1. Ep. 4. Likewise when the same Stephanus threatned excommunication to Helenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches