Text. Answ After all his labour He pretend's this but How and what Sixtus pretend's with à caution often repeated in the Bull quoad eius sieri potest prout optime sieri potuit c. That is as well as then could be c. The firm or certain Argument therefore is The Church euer preserued true and Genuin Scripture which is either to be found in the ancient approued Copies both printed and manuscript or no where These Pope Sixtus diligently searched into therefore his Edition is true genuin Scripture which no Catholick denies if by true and genuin Scripture we vnderstand not an Exclusion of all lesser faults but of greater contrary to the purity of Faith and Religion and so far Sixtus Edition is blamlesse although as Tanner now cited n. 83. obserues perhaps not altogether so circumspectly done nor euery way fit to the publick edification of the Church Wherin there is à latitude within the Compass of truth and integrity And who euer read's Pope Sixtus own Bull before his Bible can force no more out of it but this truth that many faults which had got into other Copies are accuratly corrected in his Edition wherof no man can doubt with all Many faults amended by Sixtus that it contains the Vulgar Latin Edition amended at least in many things and consequently is authentick Scripture Sixtus saith not he amended all lesser faults wheron Religion has no dependance but rather disclaimes busying himself with so small à seruice 8. Mr Stilling obiects 4. The vast difference between the Clementine and Sixtine Bibles lay in this that Clement corrected the Vulgar Latin according to the Original in aboue two thousand places when the contrary reading was established by Sixtus Answ Here is no proof but only three improbable Assertions Who assures you Sr. of any vast difference between these two Editions Or inform's you so exactly of aboue two thousand different places Or why finally do you tell vs of à contrary reading established by Sixtus A reading Good Sr may be different No Contrary Reading in Sixtus his Edition and yet not contrary in any material point of faith or manners and so far Sixtus is defensible If there be any other difference or Contrariety not touching on Faith and Religion because the expression is longer or shorter lesse clear in the one and more significant in the other version this concern's vs not both may be right within the compass of truth and without any material fault But saith Mr Stilling if the Latin Copies be à sure Rule to iudge of the authenticalnesse of the Text by much more shall the ancient Copies of the Original Hebrew and Greek be à surer Rule Answ Had we now the authentick true Copies of the ancient Hebrew and Greek we should soon acquiesce but Sectaries know well this is more then doubtful yea almost certain that both are corrupted how farr I say not but morally speaking the Hebrew cannot but be corrupted by reason of the great similitude in The Hebrew text lyable to Corruption many letters and the access of points added by the perfidious Masoreths after S. Hieroms age which may change the sence of Scripture and very notably See Gretserus Defens Bellar Tom 1. lib. 2. c. 2. I wonder why Mr Stilling is so earnest for the Greek which our English Sectaries vtterly leaue when 't is for their purpose I haue told you enough already of Images translated for Idols Elders for Priests Ordinances for Traditions c. And might add more that Beza thinks those words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Luc. 3. 37. of Cainan to no purpose in the Text and therefore leaues them out Others when the Vulgar Latin makes for them follow that and not the Greek Take only this one instance Authors giue many more The Vulgar reads Rom 8. 37. certus sum enim I am certain The Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for I think or am probably perswaded Now some to assure themselues of their Predestination read I am certain with the Vulgar not I am perswaded as the Greek doth It would be endles to tell you of Luthers ill dealing with both the lections of Greek and Latin After the wicked man had perfidiously added that particle Solam to those words Rom. 3. 28. per fidem and read by faith only Hee omit's whole sentences of Holy Scripture in his Translation as that Mark 11. 26. If you will not forgiue neither will your Father that is in Heauen forgiue you your sins 1. Thess 4. 5. That you abstain from fornication is wholy omitted by him and that whole sentence also 1. Ioan. 5. 7. There are three that bear record in Heauen c. You will find no such Grosnesse in either the Sixtine or Clementine Bible Yet more Luther is excellent in the mincing or changing the proper signification of words Isay 9. v. 6. to please the Iewes where the Hebrew Text giues the name of God El to Christ and the Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Luther read's in Dutch stafft fortitudo To lessen the Blessed virgins plenitude of grace wheras the Greek Luc. 1. 28. read's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 properly full of grace Luther puts à Dutch word which as I am told signifies one pretty well gracious and no more You haue an other notable corruption of the Greek Text Galat. 3. 10. But enough of these abuses I cannot prosecute half of them See Tan. Tom. 3. pag. 319. 9. Mr Stilling last obiection is à fâ—at Calumny The Pope saith He took where he pleased the marginal Annotations in the A Calumny for an obiection Louain Bible and inserted them into the Text. Answer who would not when he read's this disingenuous and fraudulent expression Where Hee pleased but iudge that the Pope without more Adoe pick't what he listed out of the Louain Annotations and made that Scripture at his pleasure which is an open slaunder In à word here is the truth Those worthy Doctors of Louain with an Immense labour placed in their margents not their own Annotations or Comments but the different Lections of Scripture yet determined not which was best or was to bee preferred before others for they well knew the decision of such causes belongs to the publick iudicature and Authority of the Church The Pope therefore omitting no humane diligence compared Lection with lection and those lections which vsually differ most inconsiderably or very little as I haue often obserued in perusing the Louain Bibles Clement made vse of and after mature weighing all preferred that which was most agreable to the ancient Copies And here is all Mr Stilling Cauils at which yet was necessary to be done to haue one vniform Lection of Scripture in the Church approued by the sea Apostolick 10. Some may yet obiect We say the correction of Sixtus An obiection though in some things faulty contains nothing material contrary to Religionâ— or manners Clements Correction is only so farr faultless and no farther
and both as you see stand opposite to Mr Stilling weak plea drawn from Sense and Reason 6. I might yet cite S. Chrisostome In. 1. Cor hom 24. Other Authorities Chrisostom Pachasius Damascan who saith The kingly body in heauen is set before vs on earth We touch it and do not only touch it but eate it This body the barbarous Magi after à long iourney adored with fear and trembling Thou add's the Saint See'st him not now in the manger but on the Altar not held in à womans arms but by à Priest present c. Therefore in his Oration of S. Perhilg he explain's himself further Truly this table supplies the place of the manger for here also is our Lords body laid Paschasius à latin author who liued about the year 800. is so express for the real Presence à nd Transubstantiation in his book De Corp. Sanguine Dm'i that the Centurist's Cent. 9. C. 4. Col. 215. Praetorius de Sacramen Pag 288. and other Sectaries charge him with the Doctrin of Transubstantiation and oral eating of Christs body No less plain and express is S. Iohn Damascen lib. 4. Ortho. Fid. whose discours on this subiect though long is most significant As bread saith he naturally meat and wine and water by drink are changed into the body and blood of him that eates and drink 's So this bread proposed the wine and water also by the inuocation and comming of the Holy Ghost are in à miraculous manner conuerted into Christs body and blood neither are they two but one and the same Our Lord himself hath said This is not à sign of my body but my body This is not à sign of my blood but my blood Hence Praetorius now cited P. 288. reiects the Doctrin and call's this miraculous Transubstantiation held by S. Iohn Damascen slight and fabulous sodo other Sectaries with him also 7. There are yet more ancient authorities most pressing to our purpose were it not Actum agere to say again what has been so often The Testimony of S. Ignatius Martyr clear noted First the Testimony of S. Ignatius Martyr who liued with our Sauiour and was Scholler to S. Iohn seem's to me vnanswerable Epist ad Smirnen not far from the beginning They saith he that is certain Sacramentarians admit not Eucharists and oblations because they do not Confess the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Sauiour Iesus Christ which flesh suffered for our sins and his Father graciously raised from the dead So Theoderet 12. ages since Tom. 4. Dialogo 3. reads And Iaac Vossius who followes the Florentine Copy differs little or rather nothing at all None can reasonably call the Epistle into doubt which Vossius places before the other Epistles and the sense as you see is most clear 8. The second authority as pregnant is taken out of S. Iustin Martyr in his Apology for Christians vsually called the 2. S. Iustin's also most significant Apology Paris print 1615. Towards the end at those words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. For we take not this Eucharist as common bread and common drink but as Iesus Christ our Sauiour by the word of God was made flesh and haed for our saluation flesh and blood so also after the same manner we are taught that the food which by the prayer of the word is by him consecrated with thanksgiuing of which food our flesh and blood are by transmutation nourished is the flesh and blood of that Iesus Christ which was Incarnate And for proof hereof he allegeth Christs own words This is my body This is my blood Thus S. Iustin speak's who liued not long after the Apostles about the year 150. and nothing can be more express in behalf of Catholick Doctrin I know some Sectaries Cauil at the expression 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by transmutation The sectaries Cauil answered and think Iustin held the Eucharist to be food for the body but his sense is clear for he saith only That the same food which nourishes our bodies by real transmutation is made after consecration the very body of Christ and therefore Gaspar Laurentius à learned Caluinist in his Orthodoxus Consensus Pag 368. translates Iustins S. Iustin's true sense words out of the Greek thus Sumimus autem hunc panem hunc potum non vt Communem sed eo modo quo edocti sumus Iesum Christum seruatorem nostrum habuisse pro salute nostra carnem sanguinem sic etiam cibum illum ex quo nostra Caro sanguis aluntur post benedictionem ipsius esse carnem sanguinem Domini That is in plain English The bread or food which naturally nourishes our bodies is by vertue of Consecration made the sacred body of our Incarnate Sauiour Conformable hereunto Gelenius also quoted in the Annotations vpon S. Irenaeus aduersus Haereses lib. 4. C. 24. n. 26. renders S. Iustins words Sic per verbum precationis gratiarum actionis sacratam ab ipso alimoniam quae mutata nutrit nostras carnes sanguinem Illius Incarnati Iesu carnem sanguinem esse didicimus The Interpreter also I follow significantly renders the same sense Alimoniam vnde c. The food from whence from which or where with we are nourished this very aliment is by Consecration made the body of our Incarnate Iesus Well but admit that Iustine call's the Eucharist nourishment to our bodies How some Fathers call the Eucharist Nourishment to the body he makes it not therefore Corporal food but Spiritual which nourishes them to à ioyful resurrection or to immortality and thus the other Fathers chiefly S. Irenaeus now cited c. 24. versus finem speakes Quomodo saith he rursus dicunt c How do these Hereticks plead again that our flesh shall come to corruption and not take life from the body and blood of our Lord where with it is nourished Again Sic corpora nostra c. and thus our bodies receiuing the Eucharist are not corruptible hauing hope of à ioyful resurrection But enough of these authorities Whoeuer desires more may peruse Cardinal Perron in his 2. book of the Holy Eucharist Out of what is said already I argue 9. Either the now quoted Fathers and the Church also haue most impiously betrayed Christs cause in deliuering false Doctrin contrary to sense and reason or worthily defended à Christian verity Grant this second we haue our intent But if Sectaries say these Fathers cheated the world into à false belief and impiously erred in their expressions Ponder first what à frontles impudence accompanies the reply Next make this true inference It is impossible that such à supposed vniuersal errour should euer be rased out of A Conuincing Argument the minds of men by the force of any thing which has the likelyhood of à receiued Principle For what proofs or vndoubted Principles can possibly outweigh the express words of Scripture our Tradition the sentiment of the Church and the iudgement
perfect Subiection with that merit and Obsequiousness which The reason hereof God requires of his rational Creatures who are to walk to heauen by an humble and dutiful Faith or shall neuer come thither 6. And here by the way we may iustly admire the Sauciness of some half Atheistical Spirits who find themselues puzzled in the search of the most obuious things in nature none of them can say how or by what one poore flies wing is knit together yet will forsooth haue God to giue Euidence of his own deep Secrets the greatest Mysteries of grace or Cannot belieue Experience teaches how prompt and ready euery good Subiect is to obey his Prince at the least beck signe or insinuation of his will Though the Intimation carries not with it strick euidence yet in this matter of mans Submission to God when both his glory and our eternal Welfare are Concerned innumerable stand houering and doubtful Questioning whether God requires firm The peruerness of Atheistical Spiricts Faith from them And why Because an Euidence suitable to their fancy seem's wanting 7. Humour once such à Curiosity or giue them à greater light of Euidence the next thing required will be that God interiourly teach all by Himselfe without Church Pastors Doctors or any And if this serues not the turn He must either please to open the Heauens at à call and once à year at least visibly instruct them or there is no drawing such Spirits Euidence of Credibility enough out of à state of Incredulity I Say contrary the Euidence of Credibility apparent in those manifest Signs and marks which illustrate true Christianity à great mercy of God he giues so much of it is abundantly sufficient to induce the most obdurate heart in the world to belieue with such an Assent as suites God's great Maiesty that is with à Faith most firm and Infallible Obserue an vndeniable Euidence 8. It is euident That euer since the first Plantation of Christianity The Appearâ—nce and Credibility of true Christianity there has been à Continued Succession of Pastors and Doctors who taught the Belief of one God and one Sauiour Iesus Christ with other Articles of the Catholick Faith It is Euident that innumerable Professors of this one belief haue been eminent in Learning wisdom Sanctity of life and Contempt of the world It is Euident that the Predictions of Prophets vttered whole Ages before our Sauiour preached agree only to one Christian Society known the whole world ouer The Vniuersal extent of this great Moral Body is euident Vnity in Doctrin Euident Admirable Conuersions wrought by this Church are euident Vndeniable and most glorious Miracles Euident The Courage the Constancy the profound Humility of Martyrs and finally their bloodsheding the last Testimony of loyalty Authors worthy of credit number them to eleuen Millions are Euident Here in few words you haue The Euidence indisputable before you no Romance no Furb no fraud but most clear and indisputable Euidence Now ponder first but seriously And Ask whether God after the sight of so many illustrions Marks Manifested to all could permit those Millions and Millions The impossibility of deception in this Euidence who loued truth and heartily sought to serue no other but the great God of truth To be deluded with meer Phansies and fooleries Were this possible might we not all charge plain Cousenage vpon an Infinite Goodnes and most iustly complain Si error est quem Credidimus c. If we belieue an errour it is you great Soueraign that has deceiued vs. 9. In the next place cast your thoughts and seriously also vpon all Sectaries pas't and present since Christianity began You will find and here likewise we plead by Euidence no Succession of Pastors lawfully sent to preach no Conuersions of Nations wrought by any No eminent Sanctity no Vniuersal Sectaries utterly destitute of all Euidence of Credibility extent of their Religion no Vnity in Doctrin and which vtterly ruin's their Cause nothing like à Miracle among them How then dare these Nouellists destitute of all outward appearances of Truth or any thing like Euidence goe about to make their Religion credible by meer toyes and trifles These I call trifles Here to snarle at à Pope there at abuses in the Church Now to fill Volumes with Criticisms now to patch together à few broken Sentences of the ancient Fathers That is in à word to be euerlastingly quarrelling and neuer to Propose Sectaries new way of Arguing so much as à probable Way how quarrel 's may be ended Can such trifles I Say and here in brief you haue the vtmost Sectaries can doe extinguish the light the Lustre and Euident Credibility of God's own manifested Oracle Let common reason Iudge in this case Now wee goe on in the Analysis 10. Hauing Said abready We belieue because God has This euidence explained the Analysis goes on Clearly reuealed the Incarnation the like is of any other Mystery and being impossibilitated if we stand within the formal Term's of Faith to allege any further intellectual Motiue of belieuing than this The last of all God has reuealed what I Assent to It necessarilly followes that euery other Question relating to the Formal obâ—ect of Faith ceases here But if it be demanded how the Vnderstanding dares rest most firmly on an Obiect not euidently seen wee passe from that Power without breaking off the Analysis to the Will and Say she can by her pious Affection command the intellectual Faculty to Captiuate it selfe in Obsequium fideâ— and belieue most vndoubtedly 11. Now if another Question ensue's How the Will can bring the Intellect to so much Obsequiousness The Answer The Power of the will Ouer the Vnderstanding Manifest impiety not to belieue is at hand It doth so because God has shewed by all those most prudent and manifest Signes already laid forth to Reason that He is the Author of the Doctrin we belieue In so much that it is not only the highest imprudence imaginable to disbelieue but Wickednes to do so in à matter of such Consequence I say Wickednes for after à full sight had of the rational Motiues inducing to Faith seing none can arriue to Euidence of the Mysteries One of these three wayes must be What reason forces vpon Euery one followed To belieue nothing To belieue meer Fooleries Or finally to belieue à Doctrin which God has distinguished by Euident Marks and Signatures from Heresy and falshood To belieue nothing either is or tend's to Atheism and that 's Wickedness To belieue Fooleries no wise man will hear of Therefore all are bound to belieue and if so Faith must bee Euidently prudent and rational I mean so manifested by supernatural Wonders that reason is proued vnreasonable in case it denies Assent Now I Subsume But these Supernatural Signes One only Society of Christians Euidences and it is no other but the Roman Catholick Church Therefore she only proposes Faith
Both I suppose are not guilty The Iudge speaks once and no more but these two at discord agree not Their vnreasonable proceeding declared by one Instance about the main point which â— the true meaning of his Sentence may not Both return home as wise as they came and contend till Dooms Day vnless some other Iudge break 's off the quarrel and sayes plainly Thou art the Traitour 22 This is our very case either we or Protestants betray This Discourse driuen home and applyed to these two dissenting Parties Gods truths The one or other Party Contradict's the first Verity and boldly auerres he Speak's what he never Spake We appeal to Holy Scripture and would haue our Debates decided by that Oracle Two or three Passages He that hear's you hears me The Church is the Pillar and ground of Truth He that hears not the Church let him be as à Heathen c. literally taken denote the guilty Party But our Sectaries tell vs we mistake the Scriptures meaning They Sectaries cast themselues into in extricable difficulties vary from vs in the main Point concerning the very Sense of our Iudges Sentence Is it not therefore euident that they must either recurre to some other Tribunal for à final decision or Secondly ingenuously Confesse they are the men who will not haue the traiterous Party discouered Or lastly acknowledge Controuersies can haue no End and that God has not left any means on earth whereby the notorious Deprauers of his reuealed Truths may be known One only Instance will giue more light to what I haue sayd 23. We and Sectaries appeal to Christs sacred words This is my Body We vnderstand them literally and strongly plead our cause what different senses are made of Christs own words alleging for vs not only the Authority of the western and eastern Churches but if need were of the Lutherans also They reiect all yea Say we grosly mistake the sense of Christ's words and therefore hold vs the Traitours that commit grosse Idolatry in the sight of God and Angels Consider good Reader are not such Aduersaries obliged to plead their Cause before How the Catholick plead's this Iudge of Scripture by à Church as vniversal by witnesses as Faithful by an Authority as great as we produce against them or to confesse ingeniously This Controuersy cannot be decided They may 'T is true Oppose the Caluinists to Lutherans but to Sectaries allege nothing for their Sense denote à Church either Latin or Greek that maintained their Opinion of the Eucharist Shall neuer be made so much as meanly Probable O yes the Primitiue Church taught as they teach Contra. It s vtterly vntrue as is largely proued in the first Discourse Again that 's à thlng yet in Controuersy and therefore far from being à manifest sentence against vs yet their Clamours against our Idolatry are manifest and as iniurious as manifest 24. These and yet far more forceable Arguments proposed by Catholick Authors against Protestancy our Aduersaries call Flies Small Grains gnawing of Rats c. We wholly Contrary hold them conuincing and the cause we defend most iust Here both Parties Stick in the hight of their heats Stiffe in their wayes without yeilding to one another Is it not therefore full time and reasonable think A Iudge distinct from Scripture proued absolutly necessary ye to appeal to some Iudge distinct from Scriptureâ— by whose just Sentence it may appear whether we old Papists or our young Nouellists are the guilty men that impiously oppose God's truths 25. You se whilst the sense of Scripture and Fathers is not agreed on we are aduanced no further but only to quarrel as if Contention is not the last end of writing Controuersies Contention were the final end of writing Controuersies Or as if an eternal Debate were desired and after that to haue nothing decided For this sole Reason A Iudge is absolutely necessary though our Aduersaries will hear of none hauing an horrour to admit of any Churches Iudgement whereby the cause now in debate may be happily ended Yet if we follow the Rule of Catholicks appeal to one Iudge Reason what can be more Satisfactory then to appeal to Church Authority in this weighty matter We Catholicks stand to the Sentence of our own euidenced vniuersal Church She is our Protestants are forced to appeal to another of equal Authority or their Cause is lost Iudge Are not Sectaries therefore obliged if their Arguments against vs be thought solid and their cause good to appeal to the Iudgement of some other Church as euidenced by Miracles and as vniuersal as ours is which once taught as they teach and publickly decryed our supposed Errours 26. What we now propose seem's reasonable because Protestants most certainly aâ— they defend Protestanism will not pretend to publish à Doctrin with à strict obligation laid on their They cannot pretend to teaâ—h à Doctrin which no ancient Church euer taught Partizans to acquiese in it which no Orthodox Church euer taught or if any Church euer taught so This must be as clearly euidenced as it is euident that the Roman Catholick Church taught Popery seuen or eight Ages since Here in à word is the true trial of their whole Cause Denote Point out or name an Orthodox Church which owned this Protestancy fiue or six Centuries since Controuersies are ended But if it be as it is most impossible to name such à Church The Abetters of Protestancy Sectaries proue themselues heretiques only follow the strain and Method of all Condemned Hereticks and proue themselues by their own procedure Heretiques That is They plead against Catholick Doctrin by false Calumnies weak Cauils lame coniectures vnsensed Scriptures and Calumnies their only Defensâ— abused Fathers without any Church Authority to rely on And thus all your ancient Heretiques haue Proceeded 27. Wherefore to conclude I Say in à word Protestancy Protestancy proued an Improbable Religion as Protestancy is à most improbable Religion or to speak more plainly no Religion at all The ground of my Assertion will be best laid forth in these few words No ancient vniuersal Church no Orthodox Christians in any part of the world euer taught Protestancy Ergo its improbable Nay more no Heretical Society The ground of our Assertion of men euer taught that whole Doctrin Therefore it is an vnpatronized Nouelty reiected by the Vniuersal Christian world whether Orthodox or others And Hence it is that whateuer Protestants can Say in behalfe of their own Tenets or Contrary to Catholick Doctrin comes to no more but to improbable and vnproued Suppositions Obserue I beseech you 28. They tell vs the Roman Catholick Church once true deserted Improbable Suppositions the only Proofs of Sectaries the Ancient Faith we vrge them to proue the Assertion and with good reason because neither ancient Church nor any sound Christian euer said so before themselues And what Answer haue we The
Answ what need of this when Protestants say there is no great difference between vs in Fundamentals But suppose this done which yet cannot be done whilst Sectaries remain in their wonted Labyrinth concerning Fundamentals what light haue we from these Fathers to try controuersies now in Agitation when they grant that Popery is made vp of the Fathers Errours The final sentence is past the iust Censure already giuen The Fathers were as we are now plain Papists I easily grant all 4. Shall I yet say more concerning the trial of Protestants Opinions or the supposed errours of Catholicks by Fathers and tell you Sectaries haue no Gusto to it at all And because it mainly import's first to discouer their want of Euidence and next their fallacious proceeding in this particular I will briefly do both and remit all here noted to the prudent Censure of euery Iudicious Reader Thus it is There is not one controuersy now Protestants neuer offer to plead by à General Consent of Fathers disputed in which our Protestants do so much as offer to plead by à General Consent of Fathers and Mr Stillingf likes not to be fob'd off with Two or three Testimonies Read their writings of the Real presence of Prayers for the Dead Inuocation of Saints of à Sacrifice vpon the Altar of the infallibility of the Church and tell me after you haue perused all How many Fathers you find clear and express for Protestancy A sight of four or fiue would help much But hereof there is no danger for you haue not one clear and expres I say more not one so much as probable against the Infallibility of the Roman Catholick Church Against praying for the Dead c. And therefore wonder not that Mr Stilling Part. 3. C. 6. P. 641. where he treat's of Purgatory talk's much of the Fathers Fancies and Imaginations And of an itching Curiosity some haue to know more concerning the future state of souls than God has reuealed But after all produceth not one Testimony either clear or probable against our Catholick Doctrin 5. Do you desire to see more of this want in behalf of Protestancy And how little there is to countenance the Nouelty Turn again to Mr Stillinf Part. 2. C. 1. P. 293. Where you find à Title threatning ruin to vs all The Roman Church not the Catholick Church Say I beseech you who would not haue expected after such à clap of Thunder à whole Torrent of Fathers to haue followed for his purpose But in lieu of these Imptij words giuen in lieue of â—athers what haue we Marry He tell 's vs First His Bishop makes à great deal of difference between The Church And A Church and some difference also between à True Church and à right Church next he fall's foul on his Aduersary for his not well considering what the Primate had said Lastly to pass by à few ieers he speak's much of the Vniuersal spreading of the Churches Doctrin and Vnity thereof which is due to the Roman Catholick Church only But after his long Discourse and the rapping Title with it you haue neither sentence nor syllable of any Father which so much as meanly insinuates That that ancient Moral body as it comprehend's all Christians vnited in one Belief is not the only True and Orthodox Church in the world Yet herâ— had been à most fit place to haue pleaded by plain express Authorities I mean such as directly proue the Roman not to be the Catholick Church Belieue it were there any such in the Fathers Volumes Mr Stilling to make his margents glorious would haue brought them to light with à witness But of this main point he is vtterly silent because he had nothing to say And therefore wisely Slip's aside to other By-Matters and leaues his Title to shift for it self 6. Hence you may well conclude that our Sectaries are driuen into strange Straits when we vrge them to proue their Protestancy Of the straites sectaries are Cast into We first call them to plain Scripture for à Final decision in this particular but wanting where with all they fit vs right with à return of Antiscriptural glosses We press them again to name any orthodox Church which fiue or Six ages since professed their Nouelties Not à word is Answered We make Inquiry after Councils held by Protestants before Luther for the Protestant Religion Silence deep Silence not one is found Mention only Oral Tradition they storm at you because they know Protestancy has none We appeal to the authority of the most ancient Fathers you see how we are serued with words and empty Titles Nothing is or can be alleged clear Nothing expres Nothing probable Finally to leaue them without all excuse We call them again to an account and Ask whether they will haue their cause tryed and iudged by their own Doctors Luther Caluin Zuinglius and the like No satisfaction is found here Luther condemn's Caluin more violently than the Prelatick Party in England doth the Quakers and Send 's the Associates Protestants irreconciably Contradict Protestants of Caluin to Hell for denying the Real presence of Christs body in the Sacrament And Caluin is as fierce against Luther in this particular And thus all Sectaries haue opposed one another from the very beginning of this woful Reformation Some plead for our Catholick Doctrin Others are contrary as you may read at large almost in euery Page of the Protestants Apology We therefore know not what these Nouellists would or can belieue whilst these endles differences about Belief thus turn their heads and make them to belieue iust nothing but what euery fancy pleaseth What à Religion haue we here View well it 's exteriour you haue only Horrour and confusion to look on Altars pulled down Cloisters demolished Bious places prophaned Stately Churches turned into sluttish barns by à barbarous Reformation Enter into the Interiour or cast à serious thought on that which should essentially constitute Religion you find this Protestancy à meer new Nothing as Scripture Neither Interiour nor exteriour valuable in protestancy lesse as Churchles without Tradition without the consent of Fathers or any Christian Principle to vphold it yea and this vtterly ruin's all without any Agreement in Doctrin amongst themselues May we not Therefore iustly deplore the sad condition of Thousands now within our once most Catholick England to see à Thing which stand's on no Principles but fancy most earnestly stood for by men of excellent natural parts and these English too whose Progenitors the world knowes it fully as wise as They were all Roman Catholicks But what will ye Good Reuenues A merry life à hansom wife and Self Interest will haue it so And thus much of the want of clear Authorities in behalf of Protestants 7. We are now to speak à word of their fallacious or rather open iniurious Proceeding with the Fathers And to make good what I am about to Say you may please to reflect vpon the
be indisputably euident That the vote or voice of à whole moral body I mean of à Vniuersal Church far and neer extended A further proof of our Assertion carries with it greater Moral certainty For all this while we touch not vpon Infallibility than à small and slender Part can haue were such à part found so inuincibly ignorant as to contradict the whole All I would say is No more can à few particular members Though Angels for knowledge contest with the contrary iudgement of our ample Church Than three votes in Parlament with the Contrary iudgement of à whole Kingdom No more can the Authority of particular men equalize much less surmount in weight and worth the Sentiment of à whole Moral body than à hand For example surpass in bigness the whole man As the one exceed's in quantity and Extension so the other doth in weight and Intenfion 7. Hence you see first How poorly Sectaries play at small Game when hauing no ancient Church of their own to recurr to They are fain to run for refuge to à Few Fathers professed members of our Church And here like people picking Salads gather vp some small fragments which now they clip now mangle now peruert now Gloss now dress after their new fashion And at last serue all The new mode of Sectaries arguing fairly vp in the larger Margents of their little English Books With these they flourish and vapour as if forsooth à small parcel were able to contrast with the far greater Moral body or à few stolen gleaning were all true they say sufficient to Vnuote what euer this Oracle of Truth hath defined contrary Leaue of I besecch you Gentlemen this Trifling giue vs weight for weight measure for measure Please to plead by sound Principles or you lose the cause Doge not with vs we deal nobly with you 8. Wee giue you plain and express Scripture The Church is à Pillar and ground of Truth She is founded vpon à Rock c. And you Scriptureless men return vs your fancied Glosses We quote innumerable Fathers most significant for our Catholick Positions And you fob vs off with obscurities with Criticisms and such simple stuff We appeal to Tradition you haue none We And this mainly import's show you à Church à Visible and à most glorious Church which time out of mind Belieued as we belieue And would gladly know where your Orthodox Church was The Sectaries Pleading impertinent which four Centuries since approued or published your Nouelties And you like men losing your way go wandring about till at last you fall vpon Theoderet's Dialogues And with one single Passage ill espied and worse applyed hope to vndoe the whole Catholick cause It is not one nor ten Theoderets though they speak far more clearly than is done That can preiudice our Doctrin whilst you haue neither Church nor Councils for yours These Principles we demand of you but you haue them not Therefore you are cast into an impossibility of writing Controuersies hereafter For the few Shreds of Fathers vnluckily cut out by you are too slight to obscure the greater Lights of our Christianity of our Church of our Councils of our Tradition and innumerable Fathers Belieue it had the Fathers you Quote so much Strength as you imagin others would haue read them before your eyes were open better Iudgements would haue weighed what force they had before your Luthers and Caluins were in Being But That wiser world now gone to Eternity waued such Cauils And knew well That what à Titius or à Caâ—us saies may be right And may be wrong But what the Church of Christ Defines and teaches cannot but be sound and Orthodox if God speak's Truth Here is the Principle whereon Christians securely relied in past Ages before our later Sectaries troubled the world 9. You see 2. in what à pitifull case Sectaries are when no more is alleged against our Catholick Doctrin And rest assured They haue no more but à few scattered Authorities now taken Doubtful Authorities of no weight at all from one now from another ancient Father Therefore I discourse thus The Authority is either expresly plain against vs which I neuer yet saw in any Doctrinal Contest between the Catholick and Protestant or Contrariwise doubtful and ambiguous If doubtful it decides nothing nor can the Protestant though He Vow 's it Clear make it soe whilst the learned Catholick auouches the Contrary Hitherto both of them stand vpon Opinions and end nothing Neither can the one or other yet absolutly Say by virtue of such à Passage only Your Doctrin is False And mine is True For à Principle rationally apprehended dubious determin's none to an absolute true iudgement one way or other Let vs therefore suppose contrary to Truth That the Sectary produceth à Father indubitably clear against Catholick Doctrin Thanks be to God These great lights of the Church are not so scarce with vs But that we are able to confront that one Authority with the plain Testimonies of other Fathers far more numerous And thus much I here engage to do may it please Sectaries to come to à iust Tryal and fully examin with me this one point of Transubstantiation now hinted at And if after the Contest we do not only match our Aduersary but quite outvie him with many more Testimonies fully as clear and clearer We may then rationally ask what 's one clear Authority worth I say yet more Though we falsly suppose these particular contrary Authorities to lie euen or equal on both Sides I mean as pregnant for the Sectary as for the Catholick yet I neither lose my cause nor he gain 's his Because neither of vs can absolutly say vpon what if authorities were equal on both sides Moral certainty which Doctrin is à Christian Truth And which not For in this conflict of Authorities Supposed equal both iudgements are left in suspence The one saith I quote clear Authorities for my Tenet The other answers Hee doth so too And Therefore hitherto stand so equally poised That neither may cry Victory Neither can yet pretend to so much Moral certainty as excludes All reasonable doubting because both Parties must doubt whilst the Authorities of the one abate the force of the other What then followes from the Fathers Testimonies were they thus equally diuided That is if as many clearly stood for the Negatiue of no Transubstantiation And iust as many clearly for the Contrary Positiue I Answer This followes That we and Sectaries must of necessity will we know Truth either appeal to à third certain concluding Principle or stand doubtfully opining as is often done in what followes vpon arguing out of doubtful Principles schools without à final Decision For to Belieue any thing certainly as Catholicks belieue if that Principle be excluded or to know any thing yet morally certain as Sectaries pretend to know is vtterly impossible Because à Principle purely probable is euidently too weak either to Support
any firm Belief or to ground so much Moral certainty of à Christian Truth as excludes à possibility of doubting 10. You will Ask what then is there which may raise these two Aduersaries from that low degree of meer Opining to à higher degree of certainty I shall fully Answer the Question in the next Discourse Here I say in à word No Principle can do this But one only which the Sectary want's And the Catholick has to rely on which is the Tradition the Voice and open declared Iudgement of Christs Catholick Church here on earth This faithful Oracle raises vs from the supposed State of our guessing Probably to the highest degree of not only Moral but also of Infallible certainty Though now we press not that against our Aduersaries The Sectary Therefore who disdain's to learn of this Oracle what Christian Truths are shall neuer come to his Moral certainty though the Supposition already made of Authorities equal stood in vigour Iudge then I beseech you How desperate his Cause is now How remote from all such certainty De facto whether he impugn's our Doctrin or plead's for his own opinions when he hath nothing to rely on but only à few dark and dubious Passages of some ancient Fathers 11. I say dubious Passages for in Truth if so much they are no more And Therefore though we haue hitherto supposed Authorities euenly laid on both sides To Show that nothing What the Sectary can Plead help 's the Sectary out of his labyrinth yet now I must tell the Story as t' is All he has in this world to plead comes only to à few misinterpreted Authorities And with such poor Gleanings Churchless man as He is he thinks to Out-braue à whole Church To decry Tradition to vnsense the Fathers to rob vs of our right And finally to throw vs out of the Possession of those ancient Christian Truths which both we and our Ancestors haue professed age after age without Alteration What think ye Haue à few rack't and tortured Sentences Add to them as many Cauils as many Criticisms as you please force enough to do such wonders Can these gleanings misinterpreted as you haue seen better inform vs of the ancient Primitiue Truths than the General voice or vniuersal consent of à whole Church now in being It is improbable Grant therefore which I do On what Principle the Catholick Stand's not That we know not too well the sense of one Theoderet or of à Tertullian c. The Catholick cleares his Doctrin And drawes it from surer Principles viz. From the voice and open declared Iudgement of his Church And most deseruedly look's on the Sectaries attempt as highly improbable who will needs know what Doctrin we are to hold now or was anciently held amongst Christians by à Fathers Testimony when the very sense is supposed doubtful And lies in obscurity That is He will know more than can be known He will force light out of darkness And deriâ—â— the moral certainty of his Doctrin from meer doubtful Principles which is impossible And thus these men proceed in all other Controuersies though Conscious that à whole ample Church decries their Doctrin as false And the open abuse of Fathers also O saith the Sectary I little regard what the Church decries Ansâ— And much less do I regard what you cry against it When the whole strength of your Clamours vltimatly resolued comes to no more but to fancied Glosses laid vpon ambiguous Authorities What in God's name would you be at What can you pretend The Church opposed to Sectaries Clamours or intend Shall clamours Think ye and your few clouded Testimonies force me to leaue my ancient Faith when I euidently know That the Church I liue in call's louder on me and more rationally command's me to Belieue as I doe This audible known voice of Christ's Church dull's your clamours infinitly Outweigh's your Glosses your guesses And the doubtful Sentiment of any priuate Father 12. The Sectary may reply I haue now supposed without Proof the Fathers abused by him whereas if the Supposition hold's it s only doubtful whether it be so or no. Answ Thus much is only supposed doubtful That neither of vs can learn by words precisely obscure what Doctrin to embrace or what to reiect Before à surer Oracle speak's and decide the Controuersy Catholicks say this Oracle is the Church The Protestant who has no Church to recurr to stand's trifling with his obscure Passages hoping at last to make something of nothing to hammer out of dark sentences the Clear Moral certainty of his new Doctrin Though contrary to the whole Church And thus He abuseth both Fathers and reason also Because as I said iust now A doubtful Principle yeilds not so much certainty If He say 3. His quoted Authorities are sufficiently clear to ground the Moral certainty of his Doctrin against the Church it is à desperate improbable Speech For Moral certainty which should pass as an vncontradicted truth most euidently loseth that force when à whole Church manifestly contradict's it But hereof enough is Said in the other Treatise Disc 1. C. 6. n. 3. 13. You will ask perhaps What is to be done if we meet with à Father so clear and express against Church-Doctrin that he cannot possibly be brought to à Catholick sense I Answer A doubt proposed and solued Suppose thus much which I think was neuer yet heard of in any Contest betwixt the Protestant and Catholick I 'le absolutly deny the Authority and adhere to Church-Doctrin For as the whole body is greater than à part so the iudgement of à whole Church is the stronger Principle here and ought in reason to regulate and bear sway before the sentiment of any priuate man who by weaknes or inaduertancy may slip aside into Errour I say through weaknes or incogitancy for if he obstinately oppose the Church He is no Father in that But an Heretick 14. Whoeuer reflects well on what is noted already will see I hope How neer we are to an End of disputes with Protestants if the Contest arise from the Authority of Fathers Here is the Ground of what I am to Say All the Authorities which can What Authorities can be quoted be quoted in Points now Controuerted are either plain or esteemed plain for Catholick Doctrin both by the learned of our Church and Sectaries also As is amply proued aboue Or Contrariwise are at most supposed doubtful I Assert it boldly the Sectary has not one plain Testimony for him in this debated Matter of Transubstantiation And if one or two were granted plain that 's nothing to contrast with à whole Church and innumerable other Fathers 15. Hence I Discourse In case Authorities be Clear for Catholick Doctrin the Sectary opposes vs improbably if he seek to establish his Nouelties vpon à Principle which plainly teaches what we teach And quite ruin's his contrary Opinions If the Authority be doubtful I haue said enough already
assumed Corps as haue been seen in many Miraculously restored to life Be it how you will We are sure God can doe yea and hath done great Miracles when therefore all imaginable Circumstances forceably induce vs to belieue that they are his own glorious works it is I hope more wisdom to Ascribe them to an Omnipotent Power than to Father them vpon Diuels 3. Some who plainly see it s à degree of madness to doubt of so much humane faith as Testifies of Miracles wrought in the Roman Catholick Church grant many haue been done But then Obiect 2. God did them to manifest that Christ is the true Messias or to work à Belief in vs of so much Doctrin only as is Common to all Christians but not to confirm our Popish Errours of Praying to Saints Purgatory c. Contra. This Argument also impugn's our Sauiours great Miracles which were not wrought one may say to confirm all the Doctrin he taught but à Part or parcel of it only Contra. 2. If Miracles Mark out à Doctrin common to all or confirm so much truth And no more It seem's strange that Arians Pelagians and Protestants work not Miracles as frequently as the Church doth For these men own à Doctrin common to all Christians yet show none of these wonders Contra. 3. There is not one Miracles truly alleged for euery Doctrin the Church teaches Doctrin taught by our Church and held erroneous by Sectaries which is not Sealed Signed and Attested by euident Miracles We haue innumerable for Christs Real and substantial Presence in the Eucharist As many for the Inuocation of Saints as also for the Honour due to holy Reliques Innumerable proue that third place of Purgatory c. All these may good Authors deserue Credit are vpon vndoubted Record And what iust Exception haue Sectaries against so great Authority I 'le tell you Their own incredulous Humour Here is all Whereas could they speak to the cause they should giue vs weight for weight and Oppose what we Allege in behalf of Miracles vpon grounded Principles That is they Should euince positiuely that our Authors are meer Cheats and fain Stories when we read of Miracles wrought in confirmation of praying to Saints the Real Presence And this in all law of Disputation they are obliged to do vpon solid Proofs indeed distinct from their own Incredulity or à meer Saying Such Records are false But do what ye will Sectaries can neuer be driuen to dispute vpon Principles 4. A third Obiection S. Austin Lib. de Vnit Ecclesiae Saith We therefore say not we belieue because so many wonders are done all the world ouer in holy places for what euer we find in this kind Ideo sunt approbanda quia in Ecclesiâ Catholicâ fiunt are to be approued S. Austin alleged against Miracles Speak's nothing for Sectaries because they are wrought in the Catholick Church Hitherto the obiection is of no force For the Saint only Saies No new Miracles ought to gain certain credit But such only as are wrought in the Church or such as confirm Her Doctrin or finally haue the Churches Approbation Now because he disputes against the Donatists and supposeth the Church known vpon other grounds expressed in Scripture Her Vnity Chiefly and vniuersal extent ouer the world before these latter Miracles were heard of Let us Saith S. Austin waue this Plea of Miracles you Donatists allege yours and I mine and Argue by Scripture only and see what Church Scripture commend's antecedently known before these latter Miracles came to our knowledge Which is to say though the after Particular Miracles added to others formerly done may much strengthen our Faith yet absolutly How the Saint pleaded against the Donatists Speaking Faith depend's not of them Because the Church we belieue in is sufficiently manifested by Her Vnity Perpâ—tuity and Vniuersallity expressed in Scripture Haec sunt causae nostrae documenta hac firmamenta Here in sies all we haue to Say Whilst we contest with you Donatists that own Scripture with vs yet Cauil at our Miracles Who euer read's this one Chapter exactly And drawes any other sense from the whole Context than what is now briefly hinted at will much oblige me may he please to discouer it 5. One yet may Obiect S. Austin Saith more and it seem's much against vs. Non ideo ipsa manifestatur Catholica quia haec in ea fiunt The Catholick Church is not vpon that Account manifested to you Donatists because these Miracles are wrought in it I Answer 1. The words vnderstood as Sectaries interpret Euert as wholly the Miracles of our Sauiour who said If you will not belieue me belieue my Works 2. The Sectaries sense impugn's also the express Doctrin of S. Austin de Vtilit Credendi C. â—7 Where He Asserts that Hereticks are condemned by the Maiesty of Miracles Besides Their sense is nothing to the purpose because in this very Passage He speak's of latter Miracles known to S. Ambrose at Millan And Saith Hee will no more insist on These than permit the Donatists to talk of their False-visions For the Church is sufficiently manifested without them vpon à Surer Principle the Holy Scripture which the Donatists admitted and therefore Why Heâ— waued the proof of Miracles with the Donatists whilst They pretended to Miracles as well as S. Austin did Hee prudently waued that Discours and Argued by Scripture only leauing Miracles to their own worth and weight I Say to their ovvn vveight which is gathered from this great Doctors Discourse 6. Our Lord Iesus saith he arose from the dead and manifested Himself to his Disciples and offered his sacred body to be touched by their hands yet least that might be thought à fallacy he iudged it meet to confirm his Resurrection more Principally by the Testimony of the law the Prophets and Psalms showing All things were now accomplished â—n him Whence I inferr as the touching his Sacred body was Proof enough though not the chiefest of his Resurrection when Scripture was at hand to make that most manifest So Miracles also The true Reason giuen wrought in the Church manifest that Oracle but not Principally to the Donatists who ought to haue belieued more firmly the Churches Doctrin vpon that one potent Proof of the Apostle 1. Tim 3. 15. The Pillar and ground of Truth than for all the latter wonders done in the Church Yet these haue à mighty force and are stronge Inducements so far as Motiues can reach but not the chief and Principal cause of any mans Belief or Assent Read then S. Austin's words thus The Church is not made manifest by her latter Miracles to à Donatist who Cauils at such wonders but Principally by Scripture which he admit's and will like Protestants be tryed by You haue the Saints full Sense and à great Truth with it whereof there can be no doubt at all when Lib. Contra Epist Fundamentâ— C. 4. 5. He Demonstrat's the Church by Her Miracles