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A11324 A treatise concernynge the diuision betwene the spirytualtie and temporaltie Saint German, Christopher, 1460?-1540. 1532 (1532) STC 21586; ESTC S104701 33,236 94

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shortly cesse and vanysshe away ¶ An other cause of this dyuysion The .xii. Chapyter AN other cause of this dyuysyon hathe bene by reason of dyuers lawes and constitutyons whiche haue bene made by the churche sometyme by the Pope somtyme by Legates / or by Metropolitanes in theyr prouince wherin they haue many times exceded theyr auctoritie and attempted in many thynges agaynste the lawe of the realme And yet neuertheles many priestes haue giuen full credence to them / for they haue thought that the makers therof whiche were the heedes of the churche wolde nat make any lawe but by good and sufficiēt auctoritie And thervppon it hathe folowed / that whan any doubte or question hath rysen vpon the sayd lawes all spiritual men in maner wolde stycke fast to the lawes and many temporall men by reason of a comen vse and custome that they haue sene to the contrarie haue resisted them whervppon haue rysen in many places great stryfe varyaunces great expences in the spirituall lawe Wherby many temporall men haue thought that spirituall courtes be rather vsed for maintenaunce of couetise thā for ministraciō of iustice And thoughe with the mercye of oure lorde the trouthe is nat so vniuersally yet some diligence wolde be taken to remoue that iudgement fro the people ¶ And of these lawes is the constitution of Bonyface the Archebysshoppe of Canterbury / wherby it is decreed that he that letteth a woman couerte to make her wyll or that letteth it to be proued is accursed and the lawe of the realme is that a woman couerte hathe no goodes that she may make any wyll of excepte it be of a thynge in action or that she were executrix before And if she were so than with licence of her husbande she may make an executour to the intent he may leuye the dette or fulfyll the fyrst wyll An other lyke law is of the decree of the ryghte reuerende father in god Roberte Wynchelsye / late archebysshop of Canterbury made against the comen custom of the realme for tithe of wood aboue .xx. yere nat to be payde / whiche custome was confermed by the statute made in the .xiv. yere of king E. the .iii. that is commenly called the statute of Silua cedua By reason of whiche decree great sutes variances expenses haue ensued and wyl ensue if it be suffered wherfore the sayde estatute wolde be throughly sene And yf hit be good than nat to suffre any decree to stande agaynste it / and els clerely to breke it Other lyke lawes be the lawes that be made by the churche that executoures shall nat vppon payne of cursynge administre tyll they haue proued the testament where the lawe of the realme is / that they may so reason wold that they shulde be for els the goodes of the testatour myght be enbeselled lost for euer And that lay mē may nat put clerkes to answer before thē specially in criminal causes And for the strēgth of tho lawes many spiritual mē haue reportid openly that somtyme in open sermōs that such puttyng to answer of pristes before lay men is prohibited by the law of god / wherupon me thynketh ar greatly to be noted these pointes / that is to say that if it be as they say / that it is ayenst the lawe of god / that than great defaut is in them that they haue done no more to refourme it than they haue done for clering the consciēce of so many people as than daily offend therby And if it be ●at as they say / than they mainteyn an vntruth which is a great offēce in men of such grauite ꝑfectiō as they be And they also be therby boūden to restitutiō as the temporal princis which ought to haue theyr fynes amerciamentes vpō suche sutes as shulde be taken agaynst preestes in theyr courtes wherof they or many tymes excluded by reson of the said pretensed priuilege And if it could be sufficiently proued that it is ayenste the law of god to put pristes to answer before lay men than degrading of them could nat helpe For nat withstandyng the disgradyng the caracter abideth / so he is a prest styl as he was before And I suppose verily that thā the kinges ꝓgenitors wold in time past haue assēted to it And that the kyngꝭ grace all his realme wolde with good wyll also conforme them self to it / but that was neuer sufficiently proued as farre as I haue herde And to that that some spyrytuall men say that it is an auncient custome and a custome approued that priestes in felonies / murthers treasons shulde nat be put to aunswere before laye men and that by reason of that olde custome they oughte to be pryuyleged in that behalf / though it can nat be proued directly by the lawe of god to that it maye be answered that there was neuer yet suche custom in this realm approued For priestes haue ben arrained alway for treson and felony before the kynges Iustyces And for treson it hath ben sene that they haue ben put in execution / as it appereth by a complaynt made by the clergy in the parlyament holden in the .xxv. yere of kynge Edwarde the thyrde pro Clero / where the clergye complayned that prestes monkes religious were contrarye to the liberties of the churche as they sayde put to dethe and vppon that complaynt it was enacted that all maner clerkes as well secular as religious that shulde fro thens forthe be conuicte before any Iustice secular for any maner of tresō or felony / touchyng other persons / than the kyng or his royal maiestie shulde haue fro thens forthe freely the pryuylege of holye churche and be withoute lette or delaye delyuered to the ordinarie them demaundyng And it semeth that by that terme Clerke in that statute pro Clero is vnderstond as well clerkes that be within orders as clerkes that can rede as clerkes and yet be nat within orders for they shall haue theyr clergy in petyte treason / whiche be commenly taken to be suche treasons / as be recited in the later ende of the declaraciō of treason made in the sayde .xxv. yere of Ed. the .iii. whereof the eschete belongeth to the lordes of the fee. But in the other treasons that be recited in the sayd declaracion / whereof the forfayture is onely to the kynge none shall haue his clergye by the comon lawe / clerke within orders nor lay man that can rede / nethere is nat any remedy prouyded for no maner of clerkes in tho tresons / for they touche the kyng and his royal maiestie And therfore they be excepted in the sayd statute ꝓ Clero as before apereth be comonly called hygh treasōs of that nature of treasō is now wasshyng / clippyng fylyng of money for the statute made āno .ii. H. v. is that it shal be tresō to the kynge to the realme And therefore no clerk can there haue his clergy
effecte shulde folowe of it as before appereth Wherfore it semeth that he shuld than haue auctorytie in his parlyamente to breake that custome as a thynge agaynst the peace and quyetenes of his people And he that hath auctoritie to aduoyde suche thynges as breake his peace hath also auctoryte to preuent and deuoyde suche thynges as maye gyue occasion to the breking of his peace as that custome shulde do yf the sayde effecte shulde folowe of it And certayne hit is that it hurtethe no more a good preste that an euyl preeste is punisshed than it hurteth a lay man that he is punysshed ne no more than it hurtethe a good lay man or woman that an nother is euyll and is punysshed for it And I suppose verily that this diuision wil neuer be perfytely appeased tylle preestes and religious wyl be as lothe to here of any defaute in a lay man or lay woman / as in a preste or in a relygious person And that wyll neuer be as longe as the great confederacies and singularite cōtinueth amonge prestes and amonge religious persons as it dothe now The good lay men and women must paciently beare the euyll reporte of other laye men and women that be of the same condycyon as they be / and so they shall be taught by spiritual mē / that they ought to do but they wyl not do so them selfe In so moche that I suppose veryly that many a preest religious wold grudge more ayenste an euyll reporte made of a prest or religious / that in dede were giltie in pryde / couetyse angre / malice glotony lecherye or suche other than they wolde be ayenst a lyke euyl report made of a laye manne or a laye woman that were not gyltie ¶ Dyuers other lawes there be / that be made by the churche that many menne thynke the churche hadde no power to make As it is / that no benefice shal be let to a lay man / but a spiritual man be ioyned with hym Or that it shall not be let aboue .iii. yeres And also the constitucion of a dimission noble suche other that were to longe to reherse nowe For these suffise to shew that by such lawes made by the churche / that they hadde no power to make any lawe of / hath rysen one speciall cause of this diuision ¶ An other occasion of this diuision The .xiii. Chapiter AN other occasion of this diuision hath rysen by reason of feyned visitacions vsed in tymes paste by ordinaries and other that haue hadde power to visyte howses of religion and churches in the countrey For there is a cōmen opinion in maner vniuersally rysen amonge the people that suche visitacions / after the maner as they be vsed / do litel good and rather encrece vice than vertue And verilie the more pytie is it semeth to be true as they sey For it is vsed / that at suche visitacions visitours take of the houses of religyon that they vysite / somme certeyne pencyon And for visitacion of churches they haue of some certayne churche / mete and drynke where they visite / and than they gather somme certayne duetie of all the churches within a certeyn circute ī that contrey And neuer the les / as the comen opynyon gothe / comenlye they reforme nothynge / but as they fynde it so they leue it / and neyther cōforte they vertue / ne punysshe vice / but many tymes the contrarie by some worldlie demeanour or euyll example that the people see in them And thus when the people haue sene that offenders as well spiritual as temporall / contynue after the visitacion as they dydde before they haue coniectured / that the ordinaries and visitours do visite more rather for theyr pencions / than for any good order or reformacion And this / through a longe cōtinuaunce hath brought the people to iudge great couetice in such visitours / whiche commenly be of the greattest reulers of the spiritualtie wherby the peole by lyttell and lytell haue fallen into a dispraysyng of such visitations / and into a mislykynge of theyr rulers spiritual and of suche pompe and worldly behauour as is shewed by them at suche visitations And than whan such visitours and spirituall rulers haue perceyued that the people haue misliked theyr visitations they haue disdayned it and haue contynued styl as they dyd before and so hath the grudge betwene them contynued secretely of long tyme. And surely it is to be moche meruayled that visitours wil attempte to take at theyr visitatiōs any pension or imposition of them that they visite contrarye to the good lawes that be made in the .vi. boke ti de censibus ca. romana et exigit Wherin great penalties be set vppon them that take any pension at theyr visitations / contrary to the sayd lawes / as in the same doth appere And but there be any secret dispensation in that behalfe many be suspended / that dayly ministre And if there be any suche secrete dispensation hit is to doute that the graunte therof proceded not of charite but of some couetyse and singularite yf the very grounde therof were throughly serched Wherfore hit were ryght expedient / that suche visitations were set in suche order as well by spirituall auctoritie / as by temporal auctoritie that good men hereafter myght therby be comforted / and euyll men corrected reformed to the good example of all other that shulde here of it ¶ An other cause of this dyuysion The .xiiii. Chapiter AN nother cause of the sayd diuision hathe rysen by occasion of the greate multitude of lycences and dispensations that haue benne made for money by popes and busshops in tyme paste / contrary to dyuers good lawes made by the churche as of pluralites ayenst the law that no man shulde haue but one benefice / and of lycence to curates to be non resident of capacities to men of religyon and that none shall take orders ne be promoted afore a certayne age and suche other whiche lycences dispensacions haue bene so accustomably graunted for money without cause reasonable that great inconuenyences haue folowed vppon it to the great grudge and murmour and euyll example of all the people ¶ An other cause of the sayde dyuysion The .xv. Chapiter AN other occasyon of the sayde diuisyon hathe rysen by a greate larnes and lybertye of lyuynge / that the people haue sene in many religious mē For they say that though religious men professe obedience pouerty / yet many of them haue wil haue theyr owne wil with pleynty delicate fedynge in such abundance that no obedience nor pouertie appereth in them And therfore many haue sayde and yet say to this day that religious men haue the most plesant delicate lyfe that any men haue And truly if we behold the holynes blessed exāples of holy fathers of many religious persons that haue bene ī tyme past / and of many religious persons that be now in these dayes
make lawes that shal brynge in mekenes among spirytuall men and that may enduce them charytablye to suffre some tyme them that offende them as they haue bene in tyme past to make lawes to set spyrytuall men in suche case that they may correcte all them and kepe them vnder that wyll any thynge resyste them And lyke as many spirituall men haue mysordred them selfe agaynste laye men not onely in suche thynges as be partely touched before but also in wordes / affermynge somtyme that lay men loue not prestes so in likewise some lay mē misordre thē selfe in wordes agaynst prestes and wil say that there is no good preste or that all prestes be nought and some as it is sayde / wyll call them somtyme horeson prestes And if all these wordes were prohybyte on bothe sydes vpon greate paines / I thynke it wold do great good in this behalfe ¶ An other cause of this dyuysion The fourth Chapyter THe harde extreme lawes that are made for layenge violent handes vpon clerkes and suche other spyrytuall persones / hath ben an other cause of this diuision For they be very parcyalle / as to the reders wylle appere and they be also so generalle that nether kynge nor lorde be not excepted in them but that they shulde goo to the pope to be assoyled And the sayde lawes be .xvii. q. iiii si quis suadente diabolo et ex de sētenc excōmunicac ca. Non dubiū et Ca. mulieris et Ca. peruenit et ca. ea noscitur in many other chapiters there / et ex de sentenc excommunicac li. vi ca. religioso And these lawes be suche / that if a manne in violence lay his hande only vpon a clerke / that he is accoursed but thoughe a clerke beate a laye manne wrongfully / and with violence he is not accoursed And this parcialyte hathe done greatte hurte ¶ An other occasion of this dyuysion The fyft Chapiter THoughe there be dyuers good and reasonable articles ordeyned by the church to be redde openlye to the people at certain dayes by the churche therto assygned / which commenly is called the general sentence yet manye curates and theyr parysh prestes sometyme rede onely parte of the artycles / and omytte parte therof / eyther for shortnes of tyme / or els to take such artycles as serue moste to theyr purpose And somtyme as it is sayd / they adde other excōmunicaciōs after their mynde that be not putte in to the sayde general sentence And whan the artycles be so chosen out / they sounde to so great parcialite and fauour for spiritual men eyther for payemēt of tythes offerynges mortuaries / and suche other duetyes to the churche or for the mayntenaunce of that they calle the liberties of the churche as that no preeste nor clerke c. shal not be put to answere before lay mē specyallye where theyr bodyes shuld be arrested or that no imposicions shulde be layde vpon the churche by temporall power or agaynst them that with violence lay handes vpon preest or clerk / or suche other that the people be greatly offended therby and thynke great parcialite in them and iuge them rather to be made of a pryde and couetyse of the churche than of any charite to the people wherby many doo rather dyspyse them than obeye them And I suppose veryly that this diuisyon wyl neuer be perfitely and charitably refourmed and brought to good accorde tyll the people come to this poynt / that they shall greatlye feare and drede to ronne in to the leeste censure of the churche And that wyll neuer be tyll the heedes spyrytuall wyll refourme them selfe and shewe a fatherlye loue vnto the people and not extende the sentences of the churche vppon so lyghte causes and vppon suche parcialytie as they haue doone in tyme paste And if they wyll refourme these poyntes before rehersed and somme other hereafter folowynge I suppose verylye the people wylle gladdely here them and folowe them For than as the gospelle saythe they be theyr verye shepardes Wherfore yf it were ordeyned as well by auctorytie of parlyamente as of conuocation / that suche artycles shulde be deuysed and putte in to the generalle sentence that shulde styrre as well spyrytualle menne as temporalle menne to loue vertue / and flee vyces / to loue trouth and plainnes and to flee falshod and doublenes / and that none vpon a payne shulde adde or dyminysshe any thynge concernynge the sayde articles I thynke it wolde helpe moche to make a good agremēt of this diuision and to contynue the same with loue and drede betwexte the reulers spirituall and the people as there oughte to be And yf lyke artycles were deuised to refrayne spyrytuall men fro gyuynge hereafter any ferther occasion to this diuision or any other lyke and they to be redde at visitations / Seenes suche other lyke places / wher prestes assēble by cōmandement of theyr ordinaries / with certayne paynes to be appoynted by parlyamēt conuocacion I thynke it wolde bryng many thynges in to good order / and helpe moche to a good reformation of this diuision ¶ An other occasion of this diuision The syxt Chapiter AN other occasion of this diuysion hathe partely rysen by temporal men that haue desyred moche to haue the famyliaritie of preestes in theyr games and disportes and haue vsed to make moche more of them that were compenable thanne of them that were not so and haue called them good felowes and good companyons And many also wolde haue chapleyns whiche they wolde not onlye suffre / but also cōmaunde to go on huntyng haukyng / and suche other vayne disportes And some wolde lette them lye among other laye seruauntes where they coulde neyther vse prayer nor contemplation ¶ And some of them wolde suffre them to go in lyueries not conuenyent in colour for a preste to were and wolde also many tymes set them to worldely offyces as to be bayliffes receiuours / or stewardes and than whan they haue by suche occasyon bene moche beten / and greatly exercysed in suche worldely busynes / so that the inwarde deuocyon of the harte hath ben in them as colde and as weke in maner as in laye men yet yf any benefyce haue fallen voyde of theyr gyft they wolde preferre them to it / eyther as in recompens of theyr busynes and labours or for that they were good companyons rather thā another good deuoute man / that percase is lerned and kepeth hym selfe fro suche worldely vanyties and ydle company or that is dysposed somtyme to admonysshe charytably suche as he is in company with of suche defautes as he seeth or hereth of them / and that few men do loue to here And therfore wyll they preferre them / that wyl let them alone And yet whan they haue so done they wyl anone speke euyl of prestes / and reporte great lyghtnes in them and lyghtly noote one prest with an nother prestes defaute and that whan they
And they prescrybed to haue ryghte to mortuaries onely by the prescription of the spirituall law And vnder that maner mortuaries encreassed dayly in manye places / where they hadde nat bene vsed before / and of lykelyhode wolde haue gone farther yf they had nat ben stopped in tyme. And they were in many places taken in suche maner / that it made the people to thynk that the curates loued theyr mortuaries better than theyr lyues And thereupon rose in many places great diuision and grudge betwyxte theym whiche broke the peace loue charitie that shuld be betwene the curate and his parysshens to the greate vnquietnes of many of the kynges subiectes as well spirituall as temporall / and to the great daunger and perylle of theyr soules For these causes the said mortuaries be adnulled by parlyament / as well in conscience as in the lawe And yet it is sayde that some curates vse great extremities concernyng the sayde mortuaries a nother waye and that is this If the executours at the fyrste request pay nat the money that is appoynted by the statute / they wyl anon haue a citacion agaynst hym And there he shal be so handeled that as it is sayde it hadde ben mooste commenly moche better too hym too haue payde his olde mortuarie than the costes and expenses that he shall paye there And yf it be so it wolde be refourmed And surely this matter wolde be groundly loked vpon for some men saye that the sute in that case oughte to be taken in the kynges courte / and nat in the spyrytuall courte ¶ Other occasions of this diuision The tenthe Chapyter THe extreme and couetouse demeanour of some curates with theyr parisshens / wherof mencion is partely made hereafter hathe ben an other cause of this diuision And though many spyrytuall men be nat felowes with them in the extremities yet non of them that haue ben best and moost indifferent haue nat done any thynge to refourme theym that vse suche extremities / ne to make them thynke that any defaut is in theym in that doynge but rather as it were with a deafe eare haue dissimuled it and suffred it passe ouer / and haue endeuoured them selfe more to oppresse all the lay people that wolde speke against it than to refourme them that do it And some of the sayde extremytyes be those Some say that in takynge of tythes curates in some places wyll haue the .x. parte of euery thynge within the parysshe that is tythable though theyr predecessours withoute tyme of mynde haue bene contented withoute hit and though there be sufficient besyde for the curate to lyue on or though he hath nat knowen but that percase some other thynge in olde tyme hath bene assigned in recompens for it And in som place is asked as it is sayde tythe bothe of chekyns and egges and in some place of mylke and chese and in some place the x. parte of the grounde and also of that that falleth on the groūde And in some places is claimed tithe of seruantes wages without deduction And it is but in few places that any seruaunte shall goo quite without som tithe payeng / though he haue spent al in syckenes or vpon his father and mother / or suche other necessarie expences And in som places if a parisshē haue nat x. calues that yere the curate wyll put the tythynge of tyll another yere / and than to take a tythe calfe accomptynge bothe yeres togyther / rather than he wold the fyrst yere take the money that is in that case assigned by the lawe And they doo lykewyse of lambes pygges and suche other thynges Also in many places the curates take more at maryages buryals and obites than they were wont to do and wyll nat bury a straunger that dyeth within the parysshe but he haue some what for it Also some curates / whan there is any varyaunce betwene hym and any of his parisshens or that any of his parysshens be in his det hathe prohybyte them fro howsell tylle he be payde And it hathe bene somtyme sene that whan a poore man hathe ben sette to be houseled the curate hathe before all the parysshe vpon some suche displeasure caused hym to ryse and goo awaye without housell to his rebuke And though these abusyons be nat vsed vnyuersallye god forbyd they shulde for there be many good curates and other spyrytuall men that wolde nat vse them for the wynnynge or lesynge of noerthly thynges yet whan people of dyuers contrees mete to gyther / and one of them telleth an other of some suche extremities in some curates in his contreye and the other lykewyse to hym anone they esteme suche couetyse and extreme delynge to be in al curates And though they do nat well in that doynge / for the offence of one prieste is no offence to an other yf they so wyll take it Yet spirituall men do nothynge therin to brynge the people oute of that iudgement but suffre suche abusions to be vsed by some of them continually without correction / and as I haue sayd before wyl rather laboure to stoppe the mouthes of them that wyll fynde defaulte at suche demeanoure than to helpe to refourme them that do it And surely as longe as they do so hit wyll be very harde to haue a good vnitie and peace in this behalfe ¶ Other causes of the sayd diuision The .xi. Chapiter AN other thynge that hath caused the people to grudge agaynste the pope other spirituall rulers hath ben the grauntynge of pardons for money For whā it hathe benne noysed that the money shulde be bestowed to somme charitable vse as vppon the buyldynge of sayncte Peters churche in Rome or to suche other charitable vse it hathe appered afterwarde euidently that it hath nat ben disposed to that vse And that hath caused many to thynke that the sayde pardons were graunted rather of couetice than of charitie or for the helthe of the soules of the people And therupon some haue fallen in maner in to dyspysynge of pardons as though pardons graunted vpon suche couetise shulde nat auaile And because the people be greately deceyued in that iudgemente / for as to the taker the pardone is good though the grauntor offend in his grauntyng of the pardon Therefore it is right necessary / that the rulers take hede that pardons be herafter graunted in suche charitable maner that the people shall haue no occasion ne coloure to thynke that they be graūted of couetice And than the graūtoures shall profytte them selfe in theyr graunte / and the people also in theyr takynge and elles it maye lyghtely hurte them bothe And verely it were greate pitie that any myslykynge of pardons shulde growe in the hertes of the people for any misdemeanor in the grauntours or otherwyse / for they be ryghte necessarie And I suppose that if certein ꝑdons were graūted frely without money for sayeng of certein prayers therin to be appointed that all mislikynge of pardons wolde