Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	authority_n	church_n	king_n	2,752	5	4.0125	3	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91879	The falsehood of Mr. VVilliam Pryn's Truth triumphing, in the antiquity of popish princes and Parliaments. To which, he attributes a sole, sovereigne, legislative, coercive power in all matters of religion; discovered to be full of absurdities, contradictions, sacriledge, and to make more in favour of Rome and Antichrist, than all the bookes and pamphlets which were ever published, whether by papall or episcopall prelates, or parisites, since the reformation. With twelve queries, eight whereof visit Mr. Pryn the second time, because they could not be satisfied at the first.	Robinson, Henry, 1605?-1664?	1645 (1645)	Wing R1672; Thomason E273_16; Thomason E282_11; ESTC R200048	28,156	36

right of Christian Princes for calling such Assemblies can any wayes make legall the present sitting of the Divines at Westminster or how he can make atonement for himselfe to give occasion that both their assembling and whole proceedings may thus be called in question But p. 88. you bring in a Parenthesis which doubtlesse the Assembly will thinke had far better beene left out that the assent of the Clergy is only by way of assistance and advice not simply necessary to the Parliaments determining what is heresie however for my part I do not much dissent with you therein and if the Assembly did like as well thereof should thinke it might somewhat qualifie their over forward and eager appetites which else might too likely lead them to declare those wayes hereticall after which Paul was not ashamed to say hee worshipped the God of his Fathers Act. 24. 14. But may not both Kings and Parliaments reprove you like an unlucky Cow who having given great quantity of milke kicks it downe with her foot for contradicting your selfe and plundring them so speedily of all Ecclesiasticall power which before in a good mood you cast upon them so liberally without allowance saying p. 141. That there is the selfe same reason and equity for severall combined Churches in a Councell Synod Presbytery to have a coercive power over every particular Congregation in their limits as for any particular Congregation to claime or exercise a jurisdiction in point of direction or correction over any or every particular member of it This assertion I conceive is yet more prodigious than all your Popish presidents with which you ever were acquainted and I beleeve that never any body hereafter will so much as acknowledge you in this opinion Whereas the Title of your Booke and whole Discourse in generall ascribe all power and authority unto the Civill Magistrate both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall matters This passage gives the same unto a Synod even a Coercive that is all Power and Authority and that both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall matters provided they doe but colour and call them Ecclesiasticall for nothing of Coercive can be otherwise than Civill properly If you excuse your selfe by saying you meant a Synod ratified by Authority of Parliament I answer that you must meane a Synod so ratified by Authority of Parliament as some Presbyterians of Scotland meane when they expect that Parliaments must doe it ex officio whether they bee willing or unwilling and if your meaning had been otherwise you might have brought your comparison betweene a Parliament and particular Congregations not a Synod besides that the power of direction which you acknowledge to be in every particular Congregation towards any or every member thereof I doe not finde to bee granted them or so much as medled with by Authority of Parliament so likewise if you will have it any wayes hold parallel you must meane the Synods Canons so confirmed by authority of Parliament as that the Parliaments confirmation must still wait upon and follow the Synods beck and requisition That part of the Statute 37. H. 8. c. 17. which you bring to establish the King Head of the Church sayes That by Holy Scripture All Authority and Power is wholly given to him to heare and determine All manner of causes Ecclesiasticall and to correct All vice and sinne whatsoever and such persons as his Majesty shall appoint thereunto So that whereas a negative voice which hath beene and is still the great controversie betwixt the King and Parliament in Civill matters only this Statute 37. H. 8. c. 17. with Mr. Pryns opinion and consequences thereupon doe freely grant the King in all spirituall causes and affaires Surely if all Englishmen did agree with Mr. Pryn in this particular the King might like enough be willing for the present to part from his negative voice in Civill matters in full assurance of regaining it in recompence of Pardons and Dispensations which he might grant by virtue of his Headship of the Church with the sole authority of correcting all vice and sinne and finall determining all causes Ecclesiasticall The truth is that Christian Kings and Princes have de facto done much with Civill censures in maintenance of Religion whether right or wrong established by Law But the point is what they did or might doe lawfully de jure Whence is their power derived Surely the power of Princes pretending to the name of Christian whether Papists Lutherans Calvinists Brownists or Anabaptists and even of Turkish and Pagan Princes is all alike So that whatsoever power the best Reformed Princes can justly assume unto themselves in Ecclesiasticall affaires even Popish Kings and the Great Turk may fully pretend and act as much in and about the Churches within their Territories and neither of them be more disobeyed or resisted than the other The power is given to them as Magistrates and Princes not as Christians otherwise they might be deposed at any time if they became Antichristian which is exploded for a Popish doctrine But as Artaxerxes did not make that Decree for building of the Temple out of love or conscience unto the God of Ezra Ezra 7. from v. 21. to 26. So can it not be concluded from Kings and Magistrates interposing their Civill power about matters meerly Ecclesiasticall that therefore they might and did doe it by full authority from God since by the selfe same manner of arguing it would follow that Popery were the truest Religion because most Christian Princes as they are called have established Popery But it may have beene observed how Princes and Magistrates in all ages who have had the Sword of Justice in their keeping have for the most part beene kept in an ignorant and superstitious overawfulnesse by the Clergy of those times who still for their owne private ends prevailed with them to countenance and enforce their Constitutions by coercive meanes upon the people by which device of theirs both Prince and People became so entangled and ensnared to them by degrees that if either of them afterwards sought to withdraw themselves forth from this bondage they still found such a party of the other as was able to curb and bring them againe into subjection of Holy Church as they pretended though never so Popish or otherwise corrupt And this series of corrupted and corrupting presidents with their tyrannicall dominion over mens faith and consciences which the Apostle Paul disclaimed 2 Cor. 1. 24. Mr. Pryn produces as orthodox requiring it should bee established after the manner of Medes and Persians irrevocable and made very Scripture of ascribing by this Antick rabble of quotations as great a power unto the Civill Magistrate in spirituall matters as ever any Pope of Rome assumed unto himselfe But if the Civill Magistrate must be masters of our faith determining all controversies in Church affaires why I pray was Mr. Pryn so refractory to the Bishops who then were authorised by the Civill Magistrate of the united Kingdome which now

lucubrations you may like enough say dreames borrowed from the houres allotted to your necessary naturall rest Epist Dedic One would have thought the Answerer of your subitane apprehensions digested into 12 considerable serious questions when you confessed you had neither leisure nor opportunity had given you a seasonable and sufficient item not to trouble the world with such trash againe and yet you are not ashamed to say you published them principally for satisfaction of the learned and such as most seduce the ignorant when doubtlesse such learning as this of yours is good for nothing else but to seduce the ignorant who more admire a margent full of rusty antick Authours than whole leaves and chapters of arguments and sound reason and according to your own arguing you do hereby as you think with your indigested readings of superstitious Popish writers enable such as you call learned still farther to seduce the ignorant You tell the Parliament in your Epistle Dedicatory that having had the honour of vindicating their sovereigne power in all Civill and Military affaires you expected a quietus est from all other coutroversies concerning the jurisdiction of Parliaments especially in Ecclesiasticall matters Surely you might have said with as much truth and reason that having vindicated the sovereigne power of the Roman Emperours suppose the persecuting Nero Domitian Trajan or who else lived in any of the Apostles or Primitive times you had likewise vindicated their legislative power in matters of Christianity about propagating the Gospell c. justifying them in putting to death our Saviour and so many of his Saints The just rights and power of Magistrates are to all Magistrates alike all one whether they be Christian or Pagan Their power is given them as Magistrates not as Christians and the subjection which we were commanded in the Gospell Matth. 22. 21. Rom. 13. 1. 1 Pet. 2. 12. 13. to render them was as to Heathen Magistrates since at that time there were no other But why tro doe you say how most men imagined that controversies about the Parliaments jurisdiction in Ecclesiasticall matters had been put to eternall silence when our lordly Prelates lost their votes and session in Parliament by a publique law Did you not intend that Presbyters should succeed Bishops or did you thinke them to be lesse lordly than their Reverend Fathers from whom they spring Surely you show your selfe very ignorant of the Presbyterians pretences or endeavour much to conceale them Meethinks you might have seen a Pamphlet entituled The readinesse of the Scots advance into England wherein besides others is a letter bearing date the 6 of November 1643. from Edenborough upon occasion as it relates of certaine propositions made by the French Agent unto the Privy Councell there which sayes The Generall Assembly is subordinate to no Civill judicature whatsoever c. And because I finde Mr. Pryn so captious and apt to seeke subterfugies lest he should cast this off as the bare assertion of some Anonimous he may if hee please finde not a little to the same purpose in A. Stewards Observations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration in these words The Civill Magistrate arrogates not unto himselfe not so much as any directive power in matters of Religion p. 5. The Civill Magistrate arrogates no spirituall authority to himselfe p. 48. The Parliament indeed is the supreme Judicature severe Tribunall the most sacred Refuge c. in Civill causes but it pretends no directive power in matters of Religion by teaching or preaching or judging of controversies of Religion nor any executive power that is intrinsecall to the Church as in the vocation deposition and suspention of Ministers c. which are meerly spirituall p. 6. If your meaning be that the Parliament should judge between the Independents and Presbyterians you goe against the Parliaments intentions ibid. and lastly For intrinsecall spirituall power it is not in your power to grant the Civill Magistrate any at all neither can you give him more spirituall obedience than Scripture permitteth you or give him a part of the spirituall power which you have received of God It is only in God who can give power therein to any man we dare not be so bold p. 28. All this the Answerer of your 12 considerable Questions as you called them auvertised you of in p. 26. And for Apollonius whom you so much glory in as I told you a little before he sayes that both particular Churches as well as Generall Assemblies have their authority immediately from God p. 108. which diametricall variance amongst these Presbyterian Champions doubtlesse must needs be ominous and presage no lesse than ruine so much more speedier as they protract the reconciling them In which respect if Mr. Pryn would be so good for the Gospels sake as to give the Independents rest and take A. S. with Apollonius to taske who knowes but that they may doe some good upon one another I am sure it were not more than needfull each of their phansies abounding with excrescencies which they might much advantage each other in cutting off But what availeth it to have the head of one lordly Episcopall Prelate cut off when a Hydra a multitude above 77 times as many Presbyteriall Prelates succeed instead thereof Prelatia Prelaty Prelacy as we use it vulgarly is a preferring one before another and the Presbyteriall government is much more truly said to be Prelaticall than either Episcopall or Papall unlesse you will say that neither Episcopall nor Papall be Prelaticall at all for in either of those Governments there are but few Prelates but in the other there are many to wit so many Prelates as there are Presbyters each whereof is an absolute Prelate that is one preferred above his Brethren You speake of the defunct Prelates soules transmigrated into the Independents acknowledging them for the most part really cordiall in their affections actions to the Parliament and Church of England for which and for their piety you say they are to be highly honoured But mee thinks this amounts to little lesse than contradiction Can the earthly Tabernacles of Independents with the defunct Prelates soules in them make men of piety cordiall in their affections actions to the Parliament and Church of England highly to bee honoured I wish Mr. Pryn would tell me whether it were the Prelaticall soules or their earthly Tabernacles for whose sake he casts this grand Elogium on them Doubtlesse the soule must have preheminence of the body unlesse your minde bee altered and hold the immortality of the soule which you seemed to discountenance in your 12 Inconsiderable serious Questions p. 7. But if Independents having Prelaticall soules in their earthly Tabernacles are for the most part men of piety highly to be honoured why should not the Prelates bee so too The truth is I cannot deny but Mr. Pryn was once by more then a many and they godly too held to be a man of piety and was highly honoured in whose books and