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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A30189	An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball.	Ball, John, 1585-1640.; Ashe, Simeon, d. 1662.	1642 (1642)	Wing B558; ESTC R3127	281,779	264

the mouth of one witnesse though his testimony were received yet may no man be condemned See Beza annot Maier in Matth. 18.7 both their owne and Neighbouring Churches so did the Ancients The Ordination of Bishops by themselves alone or their Chaplaines and that of many at a clap so did the Ancients The thrusting of Ministers upon the people without their knowledge or consent so did the Ancients The ordination of Ministers without cure or charge so did the Ancients The ignorance idlenesse pride luxurie pompe covetousnesse contention and schisme of such as thrust themselves rashly ambitiously profanely into offices by favour monie flatterie or other corruption so did the Ancients They reprove these and such like abuses and humbly seek and sue for reformation but tolerate what they cannot amend and hold communion with the Churches of God in the Ordinances of Religion and so did the Ancients And if the Ancients did neither lay the grounds of Separation nor walke contrary to their owne Principles in holding communion it is great ignorance at least to charge the Nonconformists as if they walked not according to their owne rules when they doe not separate Nay if the Non-conformists should not disallow both your positions and practice of Separation they should not walke agreeable to their owne Principles or the truth of Scripture For you hold the power of the keyes originaliter and executivè is given to the community of the faithfull many or few yea though but two or three joyned together in a Church way This the Nonconformists approve not You hold it is necessary and essentiall to the calling of a Minister that he be approved chosen and ordained only by that congregation where he is to administer This the Nonconformists altogether dislike You hold all Ministers that be not chosen and ordained after your forme propounded to be unlawfull Idol Antichristian Ministers This the Nonconformists judge to be Antichristian The consequence of your Positions is this That since the Church of the New Testament was established upon the earth there was scarce a true lawfull Ministerie to be found where with the faithfull might lawfully hold communion in the worship of God This the Non-conformists doe detest and abhorre Of other your positions in the Sections following SEC III. CAN. Stay against Stray Sect. 1. pag. 4 5. WHatsoever God hath bestowed upon his Church as her priviledge the same is to be found in his Word But it is not mentioned there that Beleivers as their priviledge ought to heare Antichristian Teachers The proposition is unquestionably certaine by these Scriptures Psal 19.7 2 Tim. 3.15.16 Isai 8.20 Ioh. 15.17 Act. 20.27 Besides Contra Gentes this is the unanimous consent of learned writers The Scriptures saith Athanasius doe helpe us with the knowledge of every truth c. The first part which is only controversall is evident and cleere Anno. in 1 Cor. 10. §. 21. in 1 Reg. cap 5. v. 19. by these Scriptures Levit. 17.3.4 Deut. 12.5 Prov. 5.8 Hos 4.15 Matth. 7.15 2 Cor. 7.15 16 17. Rev. 18.4 Song 1.6 7. To this all sorts of Writers assent Zanch. on Phil. 3.2 The Authors of the Admonition pag. 27 c. Yea the Papists themselves Rhemists and Doway Translators ANSWER THe sinewes of this Argument are cut already in the first Section if ever it had any and therefore a few words may now suffice In this reason you take for granted that which is most false little lesse than blasphemie to wit that all Ministers in the Church of England be Antichristian For they are in respect of the substance of their office the Ministers of Jesus Christ set apart to preach the Gospel dispense the Sacraments and administer the Discipline of the Lord Christ and many of them the approved servants of Christ furnished with gifts from above sent forth by authoritie to preach the Gospel of God and dispense his Sacraments which they faithfully execute according to commission received from their Lord and Master the King of the Church who worketh by them and blesseth their labours if ever ordinary Ministers had cause to speake of and rejoyce in the blessing of God to the praise of his name But to let that passe Antichristian Teachers if I must speak in your owne language be of divers sorts 1. Such as be not called in every point according to your platforme or at least whose calling is in any respect maymed or defective though they be godly learned painfull every way fit set apart by authority and approved by the Church If Antichristian Teachers be taken in this sense true Beleevers living in societies with them are bound to heare the Word and partake in the Sacraments because they be the ordinances of the Lord Jesus who is present knocking at the doore of the heart and will come in and sup with them that open unto him So long as wee teach the same doctrine which the Apostles did we have the same povver and authority to Preach which they had B●s Chrill 〈◊〉 part 3. p. ● Look what reasons soever can be alledged to prove that Christians ought to joyne together in holy communion the same will strongly convince that ordinarily or occasionally we must hold societie with such Ministers in the ordinances of piety and godlinesse And if this Ministerie be Antichristian divers if not most worthy Martyrs of Jesus Christ that have withstood Antichrist unto blood have stood under some ordinances in their first originall Antichristian or of men in some respects which did not overthrow though it might be some blemish unto their Ministerie 2. Such as be not rightly called by men because not rightly furnished with gifts or faithfully executing their place or teaching erroneous doctrines and traditions of men but yet set apart to an office which is of God and in communion of men professing the true Faith are called Antichristian Ministers And if it be taken in this sense the faithfull are bound in conscience to heare such if they live in their societies because they be the Ministers of Christ in a sort though they be not approved of him and doe his worke for the good of them that be heires of salvation But in so doing they doe not communicate with the Ministers of Antichrists apostasie but with the Lord Christ in his holy ordinance by such meanes as he hath appointed Hieron l. 1. Com in Eph. ad Galat. cap. 1. Hierome noteth that there are foure sorts who are employed in the businesses and affaires of Almighty God The first such as are sent neither of men nor by men but by Jesus Christ The second such as are sent of God but by man The third are such as are sent of man and not of God who are they that are ordained by favour of Men not rightly judging of the quality of them who are to serve in this calling Who yet are not simply denyed to be sent of God as if they had not commission from him but

against Martiall Preface to the reader Bellarm. lib. 3. de justifi c. 8. Non potest aliquid certū esse certitudine fidei nisi aut immediate contineatur in verbo Dei aut ex verbo Dei per evidentem consequentiā deducatur Park de pol. Eccl. l. 1. c. 1.4 Separabant se sacerdotes et Levitae qui Deum timebant 2 Chro. 11.14 Atqui haec separa●●o ab Israelitis idolatris erar qu● legemcult umque Dei per idola Ieroboam fundamentaliter sustulerunt Aug. de unit eccl c. 16. Let the Donatists if they can shew their Church not in rumors and speeches of the men of Africa nor in the coūcels of their Bishops nor in the discourses of any writer whatsoever nor in the signes and miracles that may be forged but in the prescript of the Law in the predictions of the Prophets in the verses of the Psalmes in the voyces of the Shepheard himselfe c. that all devised false and idolatrous worship is to be abhorred is confessed and professed by Conformists and Nonconformists It is a constant received position That nothing ought to be tolerated in the Church as necessary unto salvation or as an article of faith except it be expresly contained in the word of God or manifestly to be gathered therefrom and that all ceremonies are to be rejected wherein there is placed opinion of merit worship or necessitie to salvation But that the worship tendred to God in the English Congregations is devised false idolatrous that the Nonconformists never said nor thought and whosoever shall rashly affirme it he shall never be able to make proofe thereof by the word of God If any rite prescribed in the book of Common-prayer be worship in the use thereof the word being taken in a large signification that is not so in the intention and profession of the Church nor apprehended to be so in them that conforme unto it neither doth it defile the worship of God to them that joyne in the ordinances of grace notwithstanding the corruption which in their judgement is annexed to it and practised by some For notwithstanding such corruption or abuse the worship it selfe is that which God hath prescribed approved blessed to them that seeke his face aright and serve him unfeignedly whereat he requireth our presence and wherein he hath promised to sup with us and we with him That the Non-conformists should affirme the worship of God or ministery in the English Assemblies to be as false idolatrous and unlawfull as was the worship of Jeroboam at Dan and Bethel is a most lewd and impudent slander which the sworne shaveling● of Antichrist whose profession is to lye and slander for the catholique cause would blush to vent You know it is contrary to their judgement practice prosession and protestations many times renewed Whether the phrase be tolerable or no if you will be prodigall to pawne your head in this case take heed lest you loose it not in Gods cause but in your owne And if you shall be desperate herein your forwardnesse will move no wise man for Religion is to be learned from the truth of God and not from the high adventures of inconsiderate men The Non-conformists can prove the Religion and worship of the Church of England to be of God not by petty reasons and colourable shewes which they leave to them that maintaine a bad cause but by pregnant evidence from the word of truth not by similitudes allegories and forced interpretations of Scripture as you dispute against it but by plaine texts of Scripture and sound reason deduced therefrom against which the gates of hell shall never prevaile The Author of that Booke Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 349. This is the doubt betwixt us whether we should cōtent our selves with such meanes as he hath devised for us and cōmended unto us thereby daily to renew the memory of our Redemption or else invēt others of our own heads fit perhaps to provoke us to a naturall and humane affection but not fit to instruct ourfaith c. He knowing that images though they did intertaine the eyes with some delight yet might they snare the souls of many simple silly persons and preferring the least seed of sound faith beholding adoring him in spirit truth before all the dumbe shewes and Imagerie that mās wit could furnish to win the eye Can. Neces of Separat c. 2. p. 78 79. 254. according to a prescript form culled out of the blasphemous Mass-book 238. That which was takē out of the vile Masse-booke c. Sold. ●a●w T. C. repl 1. pag. 130. Abridg. p. 89. Adm. 1. p. 9. 2. Adm. p. 41. Fall of Babyl ●9 Altar Damasc pag. 612 613. Syons plea. 29. Perth Assemb 64. Syons plea. 30. pag. 40. 〈…〉 intituled The course of Conformitie sheweth that the Israelites might in generall pretend for Jeroboams calves the same excuses that were made in defence of some corruptions thrust upon the Church of Scotland but the corruptions he doth not make to be like nor the pretences to be of equall validitie nor the state of the Church where such corruptions are tollerated to be the same with the state of the Israelites who worshipped the Calves Abuses that agree in the generall nature of abuse may be coloured with the same pretences when they be not of the same weight qualitie or degree the one may be small the other hainous The same distinction may be brought to countenance the vilest heresie and a petty errour if I may so speake Heresie and Idolatry are both talkative and who doubts but corrupt wits can say much in defence of both shall we thence conclude that errour or heresie are both one every abuse is grosse idolatry The Author you quote was not so unadvised His drift was onely to shew the vanitie of such excuses and not to match the things pleaded for with Jeroboams Idolatry as hath been shewed before But let us see whether you can alledge any colourable shew or petty reason to prove our worship to be false and idolatrous The whole forme of the Church-service is borrowed from the Papists peiced and patched together without reason or order of edification yea not onely is the forme of it taken from the Church of Antichrist but surely the matter also For none can deny but it was culled and picked out of that popish dunghill the portius and vile Masse-booke full of all abhominations From three Romish Channels I say was it raked together namely the Breviarie out of which the common prayers are taken out of the Rituall or booke of Rites the administration of the Sacraments Buriall Matrimony Visitation of the sick are taken and out of the Masse-booke are the Consecration of the Lords Supper Collects Gospels and Epistles And for this cause it is that the Papists like so well of the English Masse for so King James used to call it and makes them say Surely the Romish is the true and