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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	authority_n	church_n	great_a	2,167	5	3.1621	3	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A03500	A sermon of obedience especially vnto authoritie ecclesiasticall, wherein the principall controuersies of our church are handled, and many of their obiections which are refractorie to the gouernment established, answered, though briefly as time and place could permit: being preached at a visitation of the right worshipfull M.D. Hinton,in Couentry. By Fran: Holyoke.	Holyoake, Francis, 1567-1653.	1613 (1613)	STC 13623; ESTC S115476	21,457	38

thou hearest the preacher preach that which is neither the worde of God nor agreeable vnto it carry the point to be discussed by some ministers that be in autority if he himselfe do not satisfy thee and let the spirit of the Prophets bee subiect vnto the Prophets and if it proue to bee an error hee may either confesse his fault and renounce his error or else til such time be restrained In the meane time vnlesse thou canst proue by this meanes the doctrine deliuered false thou art bound to reverence it to receiue it to obey it as the word of God Ob The second maine obiection is the life of the minister because God sometimes suffereth some covetous Iudasses some lasciuious sonnes of Elie some prophane Epicures to be in the ministerie they thinke there is no reverence due vnto them as they are ministers of God nor obedience vnto the word delivered by them as vnto the word of God Ans This indeed is a great stumbling blocke which hath and doth cause many to fall And it were to bee wished that by the censures of the church such offences were removed either by reclaiming the offendors and bringing them into order or els by suspending them from their orders vntill they amend seeing as Hophne Phineas they make the Lords sacrifices to be abhorred Yet the Lorde suffreth such to trie vs whether we wil hereat take offence and refuse the precious pearle offered vnto vs because it is brought vnto vs in an vncleane boxe To meete with this evill our Saviour himselfe hath given vs a lesson Mat. 23. The Scribes and Pharesies sit in Moses chaire all things therefore which they shall command you to obserue obserue and do ye but according to their workes do ye not for they say and do not S. Augustine in his 46. tract vpon S. Iohn writeth thus Habet ovile domini praepositos filios mercenarios Sed mercenarij etiam necessarij sunt multi quippe in ecclesia commoda terren a sectantes Christum tamen praedicant per eos vox Christi auditur sequuntur oves non mercenarium sed vocem pastoris per mercenarium Sedēdo enim cathedrā Mosi legem Dei docent ergo per illos Deus docet c. The sheepfold of Christ hath set over it sonnes hirelings And yet the hirelings also are necessary for there are manie in the church which follow after worldly commodities and yet preach Christ and by them is the voice of Christ heard the sheepe followe not the hireling but the voice of the sheepheard by the hireling for sitting in Moses chaire they teach the law of God therefore by them God teacheth And he alleadgeth S. Paul Phil. 1.15 sōe preach Christ of envy and contention some of a willing minde some of despight thinking to adde affliction to his bonds but howsoeuer hee was glad that Christ was preached and Phil 2.21 c. multis itaque prosunt dicendo quae non faciunt sed longe pluribus prodessent faciendo quae dicunt they doe much good vnto many in saying that which they do not but much more should they do by doing that which they say And in his second booke contra Cresconium Grammaticum he answereth an obiection made by the Donatists out of the 50. Psalme What hast thou to doe to preach my lawes c. He expoundeth it thus frustra hoc fit quantum ad te attinet non tibi prodest hoc tibi ad iudicium damnationis non ad meritum salutis valebit In vaine thou doest it as concerning thy selfe this shall availe thee nothing this shall not bee any meanes to saue thee but to condemne thee but they that shall heare the worde at such a mans mouth beleue it and obey it though he be damned yet they shall be saued because they followed the counsell of our Saviour Christ Mat. 23. that which they say doe but after their workes doe not c. Ob They that are evill men and vnsanctified cannot convert soules Resp Some I knowe and those of the precisest sort both of ministers and people haue held that a formalist for so they tearme al those that in the feare of God obedience vnto the Prince conforme thēselues vnto the laws prescribed cannot convert soules though he be never so learned or vpright in his conversation they haue that gift themselues S. Augustin contra epist Parmeniani lib. 2. cap. 11. Carnales homines non posse spiritales filios procreare Ioh. 3. quod natum est ex carne caro est quod natum ex spiritu spiritus est Carnall men cannot beget spirituall children because the Evangelist saith that which is borne of the flesh is fleshly Quasi nos dicamus per seipsum quemlibet hominem spiritales filios generare non pro Evangelium in cuius praedicatione spiritus sanctus operatur 1. Cor. 4. ego vos genui per Euangelium Euangelium autem fur quoque Iudas sine detrimento fidelium praedicauit As if so be we may say that any man of himselfe can beget spirituall children and not by the Gospell in the preaching whereof the holy Ghost worketh As S. Paul saith 1. Cor. 4. I haue begotten you by the Gospell and the theefe Iudas preached the Gospell without any detriment to the faithfull By this that hath been said in answere vnto the second obiection here ariseth this conclusion That evil and wicked men being ministers of the Gospell are to bee heard 2. That the word of God preached by them is to be receiued and obeyed as Gods word and may bee profitable to our saluation 3. That they notwithstanding are to be reverenced for the calling place sake And thus much for the first branch of obedience in hearing Now for obedience vnto ecclesiasticall lawes and constitutions D. H. Zanchie sheweth how that many not knowing the difference betweene humane traditions and ecclesiasticall constitutions brand them both with one blacke marke The necessitie of these he proueth at large by vnanswerable arguments to bee such as without the which concord peace and vnitie order nor decency can be obserued nor the Church of God consist or be nor any publike worship of God bee preserued and maintained Yet the necessity of these or those in particuler is not such as that they are accounted necessary to salvation or that of themselues they bind the conscience with a religious observation of them So in the preface to the booke of commō prayer where reasons are giuen of the abolishing of some ceremonies and the retaining of others is declared the selfe same thing and that many of these in our Church may vpon iust causes which the Church state shall thinke good be changed or altered therefore are not held equall in autority to the word of God And we knowe there is as great diversitie in the mindes of men as is in their visages therefore if some orders should not be set down

ministery that should read the Scriptures and praiers of the Church catechise according to a forme prescribed read homilies administer the sacraments haue the help of preachers monthly or quarterly or as oft as they could bee had And since then there are very many places where the stipend is not sufficient to maintaine a preacher and are of necessity served with an vnpreaching minister And yet wee doubt not but the people vnder them may performe acceptable service to God in hearing reverently the word read in ioining with him in publike prayers of the Church giving diligent care to the homilies and sermons which he readeth receiueth the sacraments and heare sermons so oft as they can haue them and bee in as good state of salvation as some people that haue diuers sermons made by extempory men which stand vpon the present assistance of the spirit dabitur in illa hora and preach their own idle humors S. August lib. 4. cap. 8. de doctrina christiana sheweth that there were in the Church in his time some ministers which had not the gift of preaching of whome hee made no question but that they were lawfull ministers he approueth their reading of homilies or pronouncing of other mens sermons to the better edifying and instructing of their people These are his words Sunt sane quidam qui bene pronunciare possunt quid autem pronuncient excogitare non possunt quod si ab alijs sumant eloquenter sapienterque conscriptum memoriaeque commendent atque ad populum proferant si eam personam gerunt non improbè faciunt And by your leaue a great parte of our curious preachers which envie so much against reading of homilies and cānot endure that a learned man should vse the helpe of his owne notes in the pulpit because they themselues can preach little worth noting which will seeme to preach all out of the Bible and their owne meditations yet will they preach other mens sermons printed and written and study little else and howsoeuer they knowe themselues to be vnlearned yet doe they account of themselues and will be accounted more then ordinary preachers I would haue them to deny ministers that haue not the gifts to make a sufficient sermon themselues to bee lawfull ministers then we should haue a great many of their preachers in the same state Let it bee proued that aptnesse to make preach sermons of themselues is the forme essence of a minister which cannot bee gathered out of St. Paul though questionlesse it is the principall qualitie in any minister Againe if such shal be denied to be ministers the congregations vnder them may as well be denied to be visible members of the Church of God then must the sacraments administred by them bee denied to bee sacraments but so doth no protestant Church esteeme of our ministers and congregations nor any of any sound iudgement S. Augustine Contra Parmentanum Donatistam contra Cresconium grammaticū contra Petilianum sheweth that the dignitie of the sacraments dependeth not of the worthinesse of the minister because the sacraments are Christs and whosoever the minister be that baptiseth with water it is hee that baptiseth with the holy Ghost To conclude this point the honor due vnto a minister Vnderstanding that this doctrine touching the reading of homilies by such as are not of sufficient abilitie to frame sermons was offensiuely taken as false erronius Let such offensiue men know that herein I said nothing but that which M. Bucer in his censure vpon our booke of common prayer hath written for the substance in his 7 chapter whither I referre the equall reader espec As for the carpets let them now bite him whō after many yeeres buried was burned for despite borne vnto his doct 〈◊〉 is not to be denied vnto him that hath not gifts of himselfe sufficient to make sermons seeing that this notwithstanding he cannot be denied to be a lawfull minister howsoever those that haue greater gifts are worthy of double honour Yet herein the slacknesse of some of the gouernors of our Church cannot be excused for there are many that if they were vrged and inioined haue sufficiencie both of learning and vtterance but their carelesnesse and idlenes is such that vnlesse they bee compelled they will take no pains There are others that with good directiōs helps of their able neighbouring ministers would in short time be brought vnto a reasonable sufficiencie in preaching as I haue knowne the experience of many in divers places Now for the rest which are not able of themselues to frame sermons they might be enioined to the catechising which is appointed by autoritie and to read homilies which are set forth and enioined and to procure their weekely or monthly sermons at the least according to the iniunctions and Canons And seeing it hath beene a fault of some particuler gouernors and not the fault of the gouernment which commandeth the cōtrary to ordaine such insufficient men in places where sufficiēt main tenāce is for able preachers it were to be wished that for the time to cōe they would admit none into such places but preachers And this evil was wisely foreseen thought very necessarie to be redressed when as by our ecclesiasticall lawes they ought to be graduats and of a good age and not meere grammer schollers nor youths which are to be admitted into the ministery Moreouer our gouernors of our Churches should doe a good and necessary service to take a sure survey of those that are preachers what their sufficiency is for many out of their presumptious pride or to avoid the name of a nōpreacher though they haue no learning nor any competent vnderstanding in the scriptures will take vpon them to preach very often yea some of them twice or thrice a weeke and God knowes knowe not how nor what they preach to the great dishonor of God and reproach of preachers bringing the preaching of the word in contempt and to bee iested at These vnpreaching preachers doe more harme in the Church and more hinder the obedience vnto the Gospel then any one thing these ought to bee forbidden to preach till they bee better instructed Lastly seeing the calling of ministers is to bee reverenced they are to admonish the ministers generally and particularly that by their pietie integritie diligence and charitie they would force men to yeeld that reverence and obedience as they are bound vnto and as becommeth them Now for the reverence and obedience vnto the word of God preached by the minister For as the reverent esteeme of the ministery ministers is a great cause that the people receiue the word of God with more alacrity and to their greater profit So the message which they bring i. the word of God addeth autority and honour to the minister and causeth obedience to be yeelded vnto it For vnles we be perswaded that they are Gods ministers and that the word which they deliver is