But my ignorance is noted of Bristow for saying that superstition was riper in the Latine Church where the seate of Antichrist was appointed to be set vp not knowing that all the olde heresies haue spronge of the Grekes against whome were helde the first foure generall Councels A pithie reason shewing no lesse Logike then knowledge of the Churche storie Foure heresies were condemned by foure councels therefore all olde heresies sprong of the Grecians But I will aske of Bristowe whether Nouatus or Nouatianus captaine of the Nouatians was of the Latine or Greeke Church Iouinian Vigilantius are counted of him to be as great heretikes as Arrius and Macedonius but whence did they spring out of Greece or frō the Latines What shall I name the Donatistes Pelagians Celestians Priscillianistes al which sprange out of the Latine Church And yet it is true that Vincentius affirmeth that vntill the dayes of Stephanus the Bishoppes of the Romaine Church had alwayes earnestly defended the integritie of religion once receiued which he speaketh not as a singular prayse of that Church only for he saith of the same matter immediately before Exemplis talibus plena sunt omnia All places are full of such examples And that which Bristow citeth out of Ruffinus in exp Symb that no heresie did spring at Rome is to be vnderstode onely of such heresies as he speaketh of before against the danger of which some clauses were added to the creede For otherwise Ruffinus could not forget what hee him selfe had translated out of Eusebius lib. 6. cap. 33. of Nouatus which being a Priest of the Church of Rome was author of the heresie of the Nouatians 2 What he sayeth of the whole Church in some of those times I say the practise of prayer for the dead is not generall because it is not to be founde in the most auncient times Bristow asketh if nothing be generall but that I finde as though he could find any thing for 200 yeares but in Tertullian the Montanist But the later practise for places he sayeth is generall if I should vrge him to proue it he could not do it I confesse it was common but for all the later time it was not generall The Waldenses for 500. of the last yeares practised it not and almost in euery age some are noted which regarded it not or denyed it 3. To what Origen he confesseth the doctors to referre it to witte vnto scripture and tradition of the fathers I confesse that some of the fathers referre the custom of praying for the dead to the Scriptures and some to the tradition of the Apostles but neither of both truely Bristowe compareth the case with fasting wherof Augustine sayeth that it is euidently commaunded in scripture but the dayes not prescribed So is prayer for the dead but the dayes times and particular prayers are referred to the tradition I aunswere when we see as good scripture for prayer for the dead as wee see for fasting we will say the cases are like How Tertullian denyed prayer and oblation for the dead to be taken out of the scriptures is referred to the ninth Chapter where it shall be answered But he is fayne to denye sayeth Bristowe the most certeine workes of the Apostles schollers Clemens Romanus and Dionysius Areopagita saying that we haue them of some counterfaiting knaue c. quoting for my saying Pur. 268. which I desire the reader to peruse and tell mee how honest a man he is that chargeth a man to say of the works of Clemens and Dionyse that which I speake onely and expressely of the counterfeit epistles of Clemens Concerning the change of the olde Liturgies we shall heare more in the sixt Chapter 4 He contraiewise feareth not nor basheth not to say they had it from the diuell and his lymmes I see no cause why I should feare or bash to affirme that all errours came from the diuell who is a lyer and the father of lyes Neither is it any absurditie to saye that the yerely oblations of thanksgiuing for the dead are heathenish as well as the oblations for the birthes But it is an impudent slaunder that he chargeth mine owne mouth to confesse that the whore of Babylon is the church at the farthest by S. Augustines time which hath patched vp her purgatory sacrifices for the dead for purgatorie and sacrifice for the dead was scarse hatched in S. Augustines time when Augustine him selfe confessed it might be doubted whether there be any such purging fire or no. 5. As touching the Popes supremacy Concerning the Popes primacy he chargeth mee to teach that the Church vanished quite away vpon a souden when Phocas sold the primacie to Bonifacius and yet no man then in the worlde that went out from the Pope The first point is a shamelesse slaunder for I neuer taught that the church vanished quite away the second is true if it be rightly vnderstood no man went from the Pope as from a true member of the church but the Pope rather went out of the church into an antichristian tyrannie But vnderstanding his saying to be that no man departed from the Popes authoritie it is vtterly false for notwithstanding the sale of Phocas the Greeke church neuer yelded to his supremacie The church of Rauenna in Italy long time after withstoode his tyranny and was separated from him in causa autocephalias that shee would haue no head ouer her but he◠owne bishop as the histories affirme Bristowe to excuse the Pope for doing contrarie to Gregories reproofe of the bishop of Constantinople sayeth that he neuer vseth the style of vniuersall bishop but of s 〈…〉 seruorum the seruant of seruants as though it was for the bare style and vsurpation of the title that Gregorie was so earnest and not for the vniuersall authoririe which was claimed by that style in which respect Gregory of humilitie the rest of his successors of hypocrisie called them selues seruants of the seruants of God Now at length Bristowe alledgeth three causes of this his tedious rehearsall of my sayings first that the reader may see in how many points we dissēt frō them whome we confesse to haue bene of the true church I answer so long as we agree in the foundation we are all of one church The second cause that the reader may see I confesse the Papistes to agree with them of the true church in the same A great glorie that you agree with them in a fewe errors and dissent in the most waightie matters of saluation Thirdly that I haue not for these points or any depēding of these iust cause to denye the Papists the true church c. If you erred onely in these points as they did holding all other trueth which those auncient fathers helde wee woulde no more deny you to be members of the true church than wee do them but seeing beside these errors you hold many blasphemous heresies which they neuer helde and
Bristowe saith that may be and yet the Church not be in their sight a contemptible companie no more then the olde Romanes and Turkes are to vs though we contemne their religion I aunswere I speake of the contempt of the Church not of the persons of men which often times are great Emperors and princes of the world To the place Matth. 10. You shal be hated of all men 〈…〉 r my names sake Bristowe inferreth the company that 〈◊〉 hated is not alwayes contemptible I confesse neither â—id I bring that texte but to shewe the perpetuall hatred â—f the world against the Church But Cyprian writeth â—hat Decius was more patient to heare that an Emperor 〈…〉 as set vp against him then that an other priest should â—e ordeined at Rome in the place of Fabianus This saith â—ristowe was not contempt but of feare Although I â—eny not but tyrants feare the church of God more then â—hey haue cause in respect of their earthly kingdome 〈…〉 t it followeth not but they do also contemne it and 〈…〉 inke their power greater and their glorie superior vntâ— it And in the example of Decius his indignation was â—he greater because the base and contemptible compaâ—y of the Church as he esteemed them durst choose an â—ther Bishop after he had slaine Fabianus purposing to â—estroy the Church vtterly That I alledge 1. Cor. 1. Not many wise men c. He â—â—yeth it was so in the beginning of the Church but not â—lwayes And so I do blindly alledge the text againste â—y selfe Because afterwarde the text saith the wise themâ—â—lues and the strong were confounded that is to saye conuerted 〈◊〉 deede if confusion and conuersion be all one it is â—â—mewhat that you saye but howe will the text beare â—â—at beside the improprietie of the speach that God hath 〈…〉 osen the foolishe things of the worlde that he might â—onuert the wisemen and the weake that he might conâ—ert the strong Last of all God hath chosen the inno 〈…〉 e and contemptible things of the worlde and those â—hings which are not that he might destroy those things â—at are As you say to confound is to conuert so you here best saye to destroy is to saue or else you cannot â—â—rooue the multitude of wise noble and honourable â—ersons that God hath chosen to be greater then those â—hat are reiected As for the textes of Esay 60. 10. â—ited by you and mee speake of the spirituall glorye of the Church not deliuering her from the contemptof the worlde where and among whome shee is a stranger That the church was and also should become inuisiblâ— Concerning the inuisiblenes of the church Bristowe sayeth I alledge so as no sober man would so that â—elike he wil driue me to purge my self of drunkennesse as the Apostles were fainâ— to doâ— Act 2. But what saye 〈◊〉 not sounding of sobrâ—â—tie One while that the vniuersall church of Christ is not seene at all of men because it is in heauen Gal. 4. And here he asketh if euery member be not in heaueÌ„ as the Apostle fayth Our conuersation is in heauen Phil. 3. and Peter the Apostle wâ—â— seene of all men I answere although men be seene iâ— earth yet their conuersation which is in heauen is not seene nor they them selues as they are in heauen with Christ which is our life Col. 3. ver 3. c. So much moâ—â— the vniuersall church being a spirituall coniunction oâ— all the members vnto Christ their head in heauen is noâ— to be seene with bodily eyes vpon earth But another while I say Ar. 80. it sufficeth that the church be knowne to Christ the head as he sayeth My sheepe heare my voice and I know them and to them yâ— be the members of the same body Here Bristowe quarelleth with me if your text import that it sufficeth to be knowne to the head why doe you iumble in the members afterward whether he be sober that vnderstandeâ—â— not a copulatiue proposition let wise men iudge And yet the text proueth as wel the sheepe to knowe one another by hearing Christes voice as Christe knowiâ—g them by his diuine election and prouidence But Bâ—â—stowe so great a craftes man of good conclusions d 〈…〉 deth this consequence Christ knoweth his sheepe 〈◊〉 the church forsooth may be inuisible and so he may for it is of his owne making and not of mine I had no more to proue but that Christ should not be head of an vnknowen body because he knoweth his owne body and the members knowe one another although neither he nor they be knowen vnto the worlde Yet another while I alledge that though not alway◠〈…〉 et at one certeine time it should become inuisible at 〈…〉 he comming of Antichrist or rather when Antichrist 〈…〉 at h preuailed I speake of the church in this world of the inuisiblenes vnto the wicked world what scripâ—ures haue you for that sayth Bristowe Ar. 27. 77. It â—as propheciâ—d that the church should flye into the Wildernesse The defection which saint Paul speaketh of concerning the churches inuisiblenesse I haue proâ—ed howe substantiall the argument is before Cap. 7. Par. 4. But nowe Bristowe opposeth scriptures to proue â—hat the church in the time of Antichrist should be both â—isible and vniuersall For there shal be preaching all the time of persecution by the true witnesses Apoc. 11. euen 1260. dayes or 42. monethes which commeth to three yeares and an halfe But after they be slaine and â—lye vnburied 3. dayes and an halfe which is also the time of Antichristes tyranny and the greatest ruffe of â—is crueltie who shall preache then openly against Antichrist for of such preaching we speake But lest you should imagine these dayes to be common dayes of 24. houres long as you seeme to doe of the 1260. dayes c. you may see that the inhabitants of the earth could not haue time to publish their death and send giftes c. in so short a season as three dayes and an halfe of naturall dayes account But you say the preaching shall be as generall as the persecution That cannot be of so smal 2 number of witnesses For that you quote Apoc. 14. pertaineth to the time of Antichristes consumption towarde the end and his final destruction for immediatly followeth the Angell shewing the fall of Babylon Last of all you obiect Apoc. 20. that the persecutors being in number as the sande of the Sea shall ouer the wide worlde compasse the campe of the faithfull the citie of God therfore the church shal be at the same time vniuersal super latitudinem terrae I doubt not but the church shal be vniuersall in her greatest straits dispersed ouer all the earth when shee is fled into the wildernes which signifieth her desolate condition not her place wout the world but neither of both is proued by the text before alledged For it followeth not although thâ— enimies with their multitude shall come
their subtile craftie rash craze the concord of the bishops which cleueth together But there to plead their cause wher both they may haue accusers witnesses of their crime except to a fewe desperate men castawayes the authoritie of the bishops placed in Africa seemeth to be lesse which haue alreadie iudged of them by the weight of their iudgement condemned their conscience bounde with the snares of many trespasses Their cause already hath beene heard the sentence is alreadie pronounced of them neither is it congruent to the censure of priests to be reprehended by Leuits of mouable inconstant minde c. You see that Cyprian meant nothing lesse than to giue Cornelius bishop of Rome authoritie to reuerse the sentence of the bishops of Africa whose authoritie he iudged to be nothing lesse then the bishops of Rome or other places Moreouer Bristow saith that Cyprian doth also note in S. Stephan some little negligence but much more wilful obreption in those two lapsed bishops of Spaine Basilides Martialis who had concealed from him the trueth that in their supplication they should haue expressed which because they did not he saith well that their restitution by the Pope could not stand them in steed against their former deposition by the bishopâ— of their owne prouince This which so plainly maketh for the Popes authoritit saveth Bristowe you are so blinde to bring against it Not so blinde but I can see that you acknowledge 〈…〉 e Pope iâ—â—udgement of bynding and loosing may 〈…〉 re But what I pray you maketh this for the Pope you 〈…〉 eane perhaps that Cyprian doeth graunt by impliâ—ation if the foresaide errour had not deceiued Stephaâ—â—s he had full authoritie to haue restored those two 〈◊〉 apsed bishops But Cyprian sayeth not so you hearde â—efore what his iudgement was of them that were condemned in one Prouince that their sentence could not â—e reuersed in another but if they woulde returne to the Church they should there be receiued vppon their â—epentance where they were first condemned and in this 4. Epistle he sayeth Quare etsi c. wherefore although some of our fellowe bishops there haue been moste welbeloued brethren which thinke the diuine discipline is to be neglected and doe rashly communicate with Basilides and Martialis this thing ought not to trouble our faith You see that he reproueth Stephanus and such as tooke his parte for neglect of diuine discipline in communicating with those heretikes which were lawfully condemned in their owne prouince and therefore coulde not by any other bee restored As concerning the Councels of Africa Mileuis sayeth Bristowe the question between them and those other fiue Popes was not about the matters of the vniuersall church as for example matters of faith No was is not the Popes authoritie of you counted a matter of faith and of the vniuersall church although they agreed in all other matters But Bristow shameth not to say it was not about the Popes authoritie in receiuing of bishops appeales but what order the Nicene Councel had taken therein As though that counterfeit Canon was not alledged to iustifie the Popes authoritie in receiuing such appeales But there are examples you saye of appeales and namely of the Patriarkes of Alexandria and Constantinople but of which Patriarks to whom you shewe not yea S. Augustine him selfe you say vseth it as a plea That Cecilianus was readie to pleade his cause before other churches out of Africa Ep. 162. This prooueth not that Cecilianus although trusting in the innoceÌ„cy of his cause refused no indifferent iudges yet that he appealed to the Church of Rome and least of all to the singular iudgment of the Bishop of Rome but to all other churches And the appeales that were made in his cause were made to the Emperour and from the Bishop of Rome being once delegate of the Emperour to heare his cause with other Bishops vnto him the seconde time who gaue aliud uidicium Arelatense aliorum scilicet Episcoporum c. an other iudgement of A relate of other Bishops as it is plaine in the same Epistle But such appeales were lawfull saith Bristow by the councell Sardicense cap. 7. in the same Carthage councell cap. 3. whose authoritie none of those Africane Bishops did denie for the same Bishops were of it that were of the Nicene and Sainct Augustine chap. 7. did expresly admitte in the Canon of the inferiori appealing from their ownâ— Bishops In deede in the 3. chap. of the 6. Councell of Carthage that forged Canon of Bishops appeales was aledged which is nowe read for the 7. Canon of the Sardicense councell but it was alledged as a canon of the Nicene Councell and if it had beene a true canon of Sardica Councell why did not those Bishops alledge it as a Canon of Sardica as well as the other Canon of the inferiors appealing from their owne Bishop vnto the Bishops next adioyning seeing the Bishops of Africa and S. Augustine himselfe were so ready to yeelde to the authoritie of the Councell of Sardica Therefore it appeareth that the Canon of bishops appeales to Rome being first forged as a Canon of the Nicene Councell when it could not find any setling there was afterwarde foysted in the Sardicen Councell Thirdly saith Bristow these appeales were lawfull by the Nicene Councell also wherevppon you say verie insolently trusting ouermuch your lying LutheraÌ„ frinds the Magdeburgiens that S. Augustine his fellowes tooke those Popes with plaine forgery of the Canons of Nice and fetched them ouer the coles meetely wel for it Bristow will still defend that forged Canon for other there is none in the Nicen councell that alloweth such appeales As for the Magdeburgiens I neuer read theÌ„ but the report of the councels gathered by Peter Crab I haue read 〈◊〉 dosen yeares before I wrote against Allen. And in the end of the African Councel I read this Epistle of the councell to Celestinus byshop of the citie of Rome Domino dilectissimo honorabili fratri Celestino c. To our most welbeloued lord honorable brother Celestinus We Aurelius Palatinus Antonius Tutus Seruus dei Terentius Fortunatus Martinus Ianuarius Optatus Celticius Donatus Theasius Vincentius Fortunatianus and the rest which were present in the vniuersal AfricaÌ„ councel of Carthage We wold haue wished if as thy holynes hath insinuated by letters sent by our fellow elder Leo that you reioyced of the comming of Appiarius so we also might send with gladnes these writings of his purgation Verily both our and your chearfulnes should be now more certaine neither might seeme too much hasted and ouer-speedy which as yet had gon before aswell of one to bee heard as of one that is alredy heard Surely when our ho ly brother and fellow bishop Faustinus came vnto vs we gathered a Councell and beleeued that he was therfore sent with him that as by his helpe he had beene before restored to the Eldership so
sacrifice is made celebrated with prayer as Hierom saith by the pâ—iestes prayers What are then the wordes of consecration And because euen the olde howse of those leuiticall bloode sacrifices also was Domus orationis the howse of prayer Therefore the masse is nothing but a prayer So is Tertullian answered Who would not wonder at this clearkely answere For I thinke no man can vnderstand of what reason it holdeth The last doctor is Irenaeus saying of the sacrifice of the Church Libr. 4. cap. 34. The conscience of him that doth offer being pure doth sanctifie the sacrifice and causeth GOD to accepte it as comming from a frende The sacrifices doe not sanctifie a man for GOD hath no neede of sacrifice c. This cannot be verified of the naturall body of Christ. Bristowe answereth they say the same Yea doe Bristowe Is the sacrifice you offer the bodie of Christ Yea doth the conscience of the offerer sanctifie the body of Christ Out vpon thee filthie blasphemous dogge if thou dare affirme it But Bristow asketh Wether any heretike canpleade by their verdit that he pleaseth God in offering to him bread and wine As though that were the question Yea or also the body it selfe and bloode of Christ so as all Priestes doe in their Caluinicall communion no lesse then we doe in the masse What newes is this doe all Priestes in the Caluinicall communion offer the body and blood of Christ as much as you papistes doe in your masse I thinke euen the same for none that communicate with Caluine doe at all offer Christes naturall body and blood and no more doe you although arrogantly and blasphemously you presume to doe it In the 25. demaund of Monkes where I say the olde Monkes were nothing but Colledges of studentes Bristowe saith in ouerthtowing of Popish Abbeis in which was nothing almost but ignorance and filthmes and Idolatrie we haue spoyled the Church of God of great vtilitie But he saith further they were votaries and so they be not in colledges of studentes their vowes were not such that could make them other then students they vowed to serue God vprightly and his Church when they were called and they in Colledges which hauing once promised the same forsake this holie purpose haue smale commendation among studentes I know in time superstition preuailed and that which first was free at last became coact and that which was of conueencie was thought of necessitie euen as true religion declined and in the Romish Church at length degenerated into Idolatrie and superstition In the 27. demaund of Councels where I proue that Councels may erre First by the prayer vsually saide after the ende of euerie generall Councel Bristowe saith the prayer is not in respect for any false decrees or beleeuings of their whole bodies but by reason of certaine ignorances and frailties of their members when in the prayer they expresly declare their feare lest ignorance hath driuen them into error which can be vnderstoode of none other common errors of this life but of their error in decrees seeing the prayer is appropriate vnto the Councel And that the wordes going before after do manifestly declare Te in nostris principiis c. Thee in our beginninges we require an assister thee also in this ende of our iudgementes or decrees we desire to be present a pardoner for our faultes that is that thou wouldest spare our ignorance and pardon our error that to our perfect desires thou wouldest graunt a perfect efficacie of worke And because our conscience accusing vs we doe fainte for feare lest either ignorance hath drawne vs into errror or rashnes of will perhaps hath driuen vs to decline from iustice therfore we desire thee we pray thee that if we haue drawne vnto vs any offence in the celebritie of this Councell thou wouldest vouchsafe to pardon it and to make it remissible Who would pray thus in the name of the whole Councell which he thought could not possiblie fall into any error That I alledge out of Augustine de baptismo contra Donat. libr. 2. cap. 3. That generall Councells are and may be reformed the later by the former Bristowe vnderstandeth of Councells not confirmed by the Pope which may be reformed euen by the see Apostolike alone That was a poynt more then S. Augustine sawe But how can they be called Plenaria concilia full and whole Councells where lacketh any necessarie confirmation This is a shamelesse eluding of the Doctors sayinges For first Augustine includeth all catholike Bishops in possibility of erring in doctrine not excepting the Bishop of Rome then prouinciall last of all generall Councells onely the scripture cannot be amended as that which hath no error in it Where I saide the Councells are receiued because they decreed truly according to the worde of God and not the truth receiued because it was decreed in Councells Bristowe saith I might as well say the scriptures are receiued because they are written truly and not the truth receiued because it is written in the scriptures But I say the comparison is not like For truth is not so necessarilie bound vnto generall Councells as it is to the holy scriptures and therefore both the scriptures are receiued because they are written truly and the truth is receiued because it is knowne by the scriptures It followeth not so of councells that what soeuer they haue decreed is truth although the Bishop of Rome haue confirmed them Leo Bishop of Rome confirmed the 6. of Constantinople which condemned Pope Honorius his predecessor for an heretike whom you hould cannot erre in doctrine which is an argument sufficient to strangle any papist in either of these two blasphemous assertions The pope caÌ„not erre The generall Councel confirmed by the Pope cannot erre In the 28. demaunde of the See Apostolike where I bring the example of Victor Bishop of Rome withstoode by Irenaeus and Polycrates when he went about to vsurpe authoritie ouer other Churches in excommunicating all the Churches in Asia and yet Irenaeus and Polycrates with other so reprouing the Bishop of Rome were not heretikes Bristow babling about the cause of Victors displeasure which is no matter in question saith he vsurped no authoritie nor was so charged but that his censure did seeme to harpe to S. Irenaeus as if the Pope would nowe excommunicate all them that would not receiue the Councel of Trent it would seeme likewise to many who confesse he hath authoritie ouer al. But none of these Bishops that withstoode Victor confessed that he had authoritie ouer them or that he could not erre But contrariwise Polycrates chargeth him with vsurpation where he saith he will not be troubled with his terrifying censure seeing he followeth as he thought the scripture and ancient traditions of the Apostles Likewise Eusebius saith that Victor was sharply reproued of many and namely of Irenaeus in the behalfe of all the brethren of Fraunce whom he gouerned Yea he saith expresly that Victor
with his censure was countermanded by many Bishops 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They did countermaund him or gaue him contrarie commaundement to set his minde on things pertaining to peace and vnitie and loue of his neighbour Irenaeus in his Epistle to Victor shewing that Polycarpus could not be persuaded by Anicetus Bishop of Rome in some small things wherein they differed declared that it was not then of Polycarpus or him selfe otherwise thought but that the Bishop of Rome might erre The other example I brought was of Stephanus Bishop of Rome misliked by Dionysius Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 2. 3. 4. 5 c. sharply reproued by Cyprian accusing him of presumption and contumacie Epist. ad Pomp. because he threatened excommunication to Hilenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches of Asia thinking that such as were baptized by heretikes should be baptized againe Also Cyprian in his Epist. ad Quirinum saying that Peter himselfe was not so arrogant nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacie and that other men should obey him as his inferiors Bristowe saith none of these denied the primacie of Peter I say they al denied the primacie of autoritie although Cyprian in the same place saith For neither Peter whom our lord chose first which argueth no primacie but of order vpō whom he builded his Church when Paule did afterward dissent from him about circumcision did boast him self or take vpon him any thing insolently or arrogantly that he should say he held the primacie and that he ought rather to be obeyed of newe scholers and aftercommers Here you see it had bene in Cyprians iudgement a point of insolencie and arrogancie in Peter if he had challenged the primacie of authoritie and certaintie of trueth against al men But Bristowe saith when there was no remedie but they must yeeld or be Schismatikes because Stephanus would no longer tolerate them they did like Catholike men for all their Councels conforme their newe practise to the old custome and quoteth August de bapt cont Donat. lib. 5. cap. 23. 25. where there is no such matter also he referreth vs to his fift Demaund where he citeth Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 2. 3. 4. 5. but neither is it there testified Only cap. 6. Dionysius chaungeth his iudgement being admonished in a vision and that he had learned that not nowe onely but of olde time both in Aphrica and other places the trueth was receiued c. but of any constraint for feare of being Schismatikes if they dissented from the bishop of Rome there is no word The place of Hierome ad Euagrium which I cited Pur. 374. defending a custome of the whole Church against a custome of the Church of Rome Bristowe saith doth not proue a Church a rule of trueth and Christianitie without the bishop and Church of Rome because Hierome saith as also there I cite Nec altera c. we must not thinke that there is one Church of the citie of Rome and an other of all the world c. By which wordes he sheweth that the Church of Rome if she will be a member of the Catholike Church must conforme her selfe to the Church of all the world and not the Church of all the world conforme her selfe to the Church of Rome Where I say we beleeue the Catholike Church hath no chiefe gouernour on earth but Christ vnto whome al power is giuen in heauen and earth Bristowe obiecteth suppose that one Christian King or Emperour should reigne sometime as farre as the Church reacheth To this impossible supposition I aunswere that one King should haue no more authoritie than euerie King hath nowe But Bristowe obiecteth that Kings and Queenes be no more named among S. Paules officers c. Ephes. 4. 1. Cor. 12. and therefore as a Puritane belike I would pull them downe In the motiue of Apes he discharged me from being a Puritane by his censure but now he burdeneth me to be a Puritane so farre that I should also be a traitour as he and all his fellowes are To his wise obiection I aunswere that as Kings and Queenes are not named among Saint Paules officers so they are no Ecclesiasticall but ciuill Magistrates and the Church may be without them as it was many hundreth yeares Yet when Kings and Queenes are Christians they haue chiefe authoritie ouer persons and in causes Ecclesiasticall as farre as the godlie Kings of Israel and Iuda had Dauid Solomon Iehosophat Ezechias Iosias c. But Christ professing that all power is giuen him Matthew 28. signifieth that with good authoritie he might commit what authoritie he would and therefore biddeth all his Apostles goe teach and baptize◠and to one of them singularly feede my lambes and my sheepe No maruel though my ignorance in the scriptures be often reproued when such learned conclusions come from Bristowe Christ saide to one feede my lambes and sheepe therefore he saide it singularly and he hath vniuersall charge and all his successors to But for the Popes supremacie the Apostle saith expresly 1. Cor. 12. the heade vnder Christ can not say to the feete you are not necessarie to me But who taught you to foyst in your owne glosse vnder Christ when the Apostle speaketh of the members of a naturall bodie wherevnto euerie seueral cōgregation and the whole church also is like If you seeke the head of euery seuerall congregation you must looke to the chiefe gouernours thereof but if you seeke the head of the whole Church the scripture teacheth but one which is Christ for one head vnder another in one whole body is monstrous But you thinke perhaps Christ as he is head of his Church may say to the feete he hath no neede of them and therefore it must be vnderstoode of an head vnder Christ but then you must remember that although Christ be most perfect in him selfe yet as he vouchsafeth to take vpon him this office to be head of the Church he is not perfect without al his members which is the singular comfort of Gods children Ephe. 1. ver last But Saint Paule Ephe. 4. as Bristowe saith vnder the name of the Apostles includeth the successors of the Apostle S. Peter whose see for that cause is called the Apostolike see in singular maner and their decrees and actes esteemed of Apostolike authoritie in al antiquitie This cause is a shameles and senseles lie for no antiquitie for 600. yeares after Christ so esteemed the see or the decrees therof Again what reason is it that Peters successors should be included more thē the successors of the other Apostles seeing this souereigntie of Peter is not grounded vpon his Apostleship but vpon his Bishoplike office as Sander maintaineth As for the principalitie of Apostleship principalitie of the Apostles chaire which he quoteth out of August de bapt Cont. Don. li. 2. ca. 1. epi. 162. haue often bene shewed to be vnsufficient to make euery one of Peters successors equal with Peter in
Caluine c. Because I knowe not how Illyricus and such contentious persons as he expoundeth the annointing in Saint Iames but referre them to aunswere for them selues therefore I speake contrary to my selfe where I say they differ not in faith from the Lutherans 41 There is neuer heresie but there is as great doubt of the church as of the matter in question Therefore only the Scripture is the stay of a Christian mans conscience Ar. 86. Contra The Church is the â—ay of trueth If that argument of the Church without triall which is the Church might take place it would serue you both for a sword and a bucklar The church saith it and we are the church Therefore it is true Pur. 367. It seemeth Bristowe is beside himselfe in coyning of contradictions These words The Church is the stay of truth for which he quoteth Pur. 367. are not mine in that place but his owne addition although in other sense I confesse the Church is the stay and piller of truth not that all is true which is alwaies in the Church but that truth can not be preserued on earth by the Church 42 Among the arguments that Augustine vseth against the Pelagians one though the feeblest of an hundred is that their heresie was contrarie to the publique praiers of the church Contra All other persuasions set aside hee prouoketh onely to the Scripture to trie the faith and doctrine of the church namely in beating downe the schisme of the Donaistes and the heresie of the Pelagians Where also he contradicteth him selfe againe in shewing the reason whie he argued against the Donatistes of only Scripture but against the Pelagians of the churches praiers also The Pelagians graunted them to be of the church that so praied And therefore when Augustine had to doe with the Donatistes that challenged the church vnto them selues he setteth all other trials aside and prouoketh onely to the Scriptures Let the readers iudge for I can not imagine where there be should be so much as the shadowe of a contradiction gathered out of these wordes except he meane that he which prouoketh onely to the scriptures may not vse an hundreth argumentes out of them yea or many persuasions beside the scriptures and yet stand onely vpon the auctority of the scriptures 43 We stand for autoritie only to the iudgemeÌ„t of the holy scriptures Pu. 432. Contra The ground that we haue to persuade vs of the authoritie of gods booke is because we haue most stedfast assuraÌ„ce of Gods spirit for the autoritie of that booke with the testimonie of the true church in alages The church of Christ hath a iudgement to discerne the word of God from the writings of men The primitiue churches testimonie of the word of God we allow and beleeue You should bring a great preiudice against vs and passing wel prouide for the credit of your cause the discredit of ours if you could bring the consent and practise of the primitiue pure church for the space of a hundreth yeares after Christe or something out of any Authenticall writer which liued within one hundred yeares after the Apostles age Ar. 9. 5. 10. Pur. 364. 331. Ar. 21. 39. 42. The first proposition as in the place quoted is manifest is spoken of questions of doctrine and not of our persuasion of the scriptures to be the word of God The last sentence You should bring c. being patched out of two places of my booke Pur. 364. and 331. are not contradictory to the first proposition for although we stand for auctority onely to iudgement of the holy scriptures yet we are content to giue you this aduantage against vs if you can bring any thing out of those eldest writers for Purgatory or prayer for the dead 44 Saint Paul 1. Cor. 11. declareth without colour or couerture the onely right order of ministration Contra in the next line I knowe the Papistes will flee to those wordes of the Apostle The rest I will set in order when I come That is manifest to be spoken of matters of externall comelinesse and therefore say we of the order of ministration Pur. 362. In rehearsing my wordes he leaueth out fiue lines of my saying betwene the words Couerture and The onely right c. which declare that I speake of the essâ—ntiall order of ministration against Allen which affirmeth oblation of the hoast for the quicke and the dead both generally and particularly and a solemne prayer for all departed in Christ to be necessary parts of the order of ministration of that Sacrament 45 The olde Doctors neuer heard Purgatorie named nor praier for the deade Pur. 438. Contra About S. Augustines time the name of Purgatorie was first inuented And long afore that also Montanus had in all points the opinioÌ„ of the Papists c. Here cap 3 pag 23. And yet againe Before Chrysostomes time it was but a blinde error without a head Pur. 356. My wordes are of the heresie of Purgatory and my meaning of those olde Doctors in comparison of whom Saint Augustine is but a punie being younger almost by 300. yeares in whose time although the name of Purgatory were inueâ—ted yet the heresie was elder in Montanus How prayer for the deade came into the Church it was vncertaine in Chrysostomes time and therefore I say it was a blinde error without a heade 46 In Saint Augustines time Sathan was but then laying his foundation of Purgatorie Pur. 54. Contra That error of Purgatorie was somewhat rifely budded vp in his time Pur. 161. And specially here cap. 3. pag. 14 saying And this I thinke is the right pedigree of praiers for the dead and Purgatorie where he putteth the very last generation of it to haue bene in S. Augustines time and the foundationlong afore Christes time It were a strange contradiction that could bee picked out of these two allegories laying the foundation and rifely budding seeing the foundation is the beginning of a building and budding is the first towardnesse of fruite As for the pedigree is not to the last generation as Bristow saith layed in Saint Augustines time but from the first auctor howe it was continued vnto Saint Augustines time since which there haue beene many dissents before popish Purgatory were throughly shaped and brought forth 47 M. Allen affirmeth that after mens departure the representation of almes by such as receiued it shall moue God exceedingly to mercy O vaine imagination for which he hath neither Scripture nor Doctor Pur. 242. 243. Contra Chrysostome alloweth rather almes that men giue before their death or bequeath in their Testament because it is a worke of their owne than that almes which other men giue for them howbeit also such almes are auaileable for the dead he saith Pur. 236. 237. That which Chrysostome speaketh of litle helpe wil not serue Allen to proue that almes shall moue GOD exceedingly to mercy 48 The auncient Doctors did holde the foundation Contra cap. 4 pag. 28. He
more then the Pharisee yes there is saide that â—ee was iustified by forgiuenesse of sinnes which hee â—onfessed not trusting in him selfe that hee was â—ighteous although hee ascribed all his vertues to the grace of GOD as the Pharisee did O GOD I thanke thee c. Iumpe with the Papistes Luke 18. But Bristowe asketh me howe I proue that hee which is iuâ—tified may not bee in some debt seeing all the iuâ—tified children of GOD are taught to pray forgiue â—s our debtes I proue it thus Hee that is by GOD â—ustified is accounted for iust But hee that is iuste is â—n no debte for sinne therefore he that is iustified is in â—o debte for sinne That the faithfull are taught to â—raye daylie forgiue vs our debtes it is because they â—inne daylie and by sinne enter into debte and thereâ—ore haue neede of dayly remission to continue iustiâ—ied The Prodigall childe Luke 15. hee saithe is the Gentile receiued by baptisme who if after baptisme he became prodigall hee saith I haue not proued that being receiued by penaunce wee must enioyne him no more punishment then at his other receiuing Beside that he restrayning this parable onely to Gentiles comming first to Baptisme depriueth the faithfull of inestimable comforte hee neither hath any worde in the scripture so to restrayne it and the whole contexte is against him For Saincte Luke sheweth the occasion of the three parables of the loste sheepe of the loste Groate and of the prodigall Childe to haue beene because the Scribes and Pharisees murmured that he receiued the Publicanes and sinners which all were Iewes and circumcised yet fallen from the couenant of God by infinite and notorious sinnes therefore according to right analogie the lost Childe euen as the lost sheepe and lost Groate is euerie penitent sinner the elder brother as the 99. sheepe and 9. groates are the Scribes and Pharisees which through hypocrisy in their owne iudgement are righteous and neede no repentaunce To the 2. debters Luke 7. he answereth that although Christ forgaue them both yet they both had to be forgiuen after according to the proportion of their loue This importeth manifest contradiction he forgaue all yet something was not forgiuen Yea saith Bristowe Marie had much sinnes forgiuen her because she loued much and therefore long after her hartes conuersion and therefore after her first forgiuenesse Christe sayeth Thy sinnes are forgiuen thee This is a strange kinde of reasoning Christe shewing the cause of Maries great loue to haue bene for that great sinnes were forgiuen her expresseth in voyce that which she before conceiued by faith that her sinnes were forgiuen her Ergo after her first forgiuenes she had need of a second which she procured by loue And yet it is more fonde that in saying to Simon and of Simon the Pharisee To whom lesse is forgiuen he loueth lesse he giueth him to vnderstand that he owed more then he was aware and therefore he should increase as Marie did in penitentiall loue First howe proueth he that Simon was this other detter to whom lesse was forgiuen Secondly admit that he was howe proueth he that he should shewe as great penitentiall loue as Marie seeing his debt was not so great as Maries and therefore needed not so great a proportion of his loue according to his owne heresie of merite Thirdly when Christe sayeth To whom lesse is forgiuen he loueth lesse he speaketh not so much of the quantitie of sinnes but the acknowledging of them greater or lesser For he that confesseth great sinnes to be pardoned acknowledgeth that he is bound to great loue as Marie did the Pharisee who though his sinnes were as great as Maries in GODS sight by meanes of hypocrisie more abhominable yet was so blinded in opinion of his owne righteousnesse that he sawe them not and therefore this loue was as colde as he imagined his sinnes forgiuen to be fewe and small Thus the historie of the sinneful womans great loue proueth nothing that punishment remayneth due to be payed after the debt is forgiuen Whether this woman were Marie Magdalen as Brîstowe calleth her I wil not here dispute Saint Luke giueth her no name Whether Purgatorie follow vpon this last foundation The foundation is ouerthrowen for all sinnes are proued to deserue eternall death and when God pardoneth them he pardoneth them clearely as well the punishment as the guiltinesse for what should he punishe in them that are guiltie of no sinne by his pardon Therefore where I cited Psalm 103. That God hath not dealt with vs according to our sinnes c. Bristow is driuen to his former shift that these wordes are spoken of the Prophete onely for the time of the finall rewarde which I haue confuted before Concerning those that repent at the houre of death I sayde they haue rewarde of eternall life as well as they that repent sooner by authoritie of the parable Matthew 20. of them that came the last houre to worke in the vineyarde Bristow saith I am deceiued because I cannot see any iustice in mercie Yes verily I see the iustice of God fully answered in Christ not in the person that needeth mercie who is pardoned and iustified gratis freely Rom. 3. 11. But the spirite of God sayeth Apoc. 2. that he will giue to euery one of you according to his workes wherevpoÌ„ Bristowe inferreth the God is not alike good to al that he hath once shewed mercie vnto for Christ to all the baptised I aunswere that texte is a threatning to Iesabel them that commit fornication with her if they do not repent from their workes For it foloweth immediately But to you I say and the rest in Thyateiâ—â— that haue not this doctrine and which haue not knowen the deapth of Satan as they say I wil not lay vpon you any other burthen c. although it be true that God rewardeth euery man according to his workes which is in qualitie good or euill not in quantitie as much or as little as they deserue What shall I say that Bristowe bringeth in a varietie of pence contrary to the scope of the parable affirmeth the pence to be wages for the working that also by bargaine So that eternall life is not the gift of God neither are men saued by grace not of workes in his iudgement contrary to the Apostles plaine doctrine Eph. 2. In the conclusion he saith If you can prooue that God will shewe as full mercie also where he findeth not that fulnesse of Christes grace then call vs hardly enimies for not suffering God to shewe mercie to whom he will But where wanteth that fulnesse of Christes grace in any of Gods electe Is it where greatest sinnes be The Apostle answereth where sinne hath abounded grace hath more then abounded Rom. 5. Wherfore the fulnesse of the grace of Christ being extended to the greatest sins what should we doubt that the lesser should not be swallowed vp of it Whether
rrow by his labour he might haue beene purged of so great crimes as are obiected by the Tabracenes whose so great so heynous wicked factes the examinatiō of the course of our councell hath found out that the saide persons hoped for patronage rather then iudgment and the aide of a defender rather then the iustice of an examiner For first of al how much he withstoode the whole congregatiō offering dayly diuers iniuries as one that mainteined the priuileges of the Romaine Church and that would be receiued into communion of vs whom thy holynes beleeuing that he had appealed which he was not able to proue had restored to the communion which neuerthelesse was not lawfull and thou maist know also better by the reading of the actes Notwithstanding holding a most painfull iudgment by the space of three dayes when being verie much troubled wee inquired of diuerse thinges obiected vnto him GOD the righteous iudge strong and long suffering to our great profite hath cutte off either the delayes of our fellowe Byshop Faustinus or the craftie shiftes of Appiarius himselfe by which hee went about to hide his filthinesse not to bee named For his more vile and stinking obstinacie being subdued by which he would haue ouerwhelmed so great and filthie myre with impudencie our GOD strayning his conscience and publishing euen vnto men the secrete crimes which he did alreadie condemne which were as it were wrapped close in his hearte sodainely this craftie denyer brake forth into confession of all the wicked factes that were obiected against him And at length of his owne accorde conuicted himselfe of all those incredible reproches and turned into mourning euen our hope by which wee both beleeued and wished that hee might haue beene purged of so shamefull blottes but that hee mitigated this our heauinesse with one onely comfort that both he discharged vs from the labour of longer inquirie and also prouided for his woundes such a medicine as it was although it were by vnwilling confession and his owne conscience striuing against it our Lorde and brother Therefore reseruing our dutie of due salutation wee earnestly desire you that henceforwarde you doe not easily admitte vnto your hearing such as come from hence nor that you wil any more receiue into communion those that are excommunicated by vs because your worship may easily perceiue that this matter is also defined in the Nicene Councell For although the prouision seeme to be there made of inferiour Clarkes or lay men yet howe much more woulde it that the same shoulde be obserued concerning Byshops that being suspended from the communion in their prouince they shoulde not seeme by your holynesse either ouerhastily or vnduely to be restored to the communion Also let your holynesse refuse the Iewde refuges or shiftes of Priestes and other clarkes as it is meete for you to do because that by no decree of the fathers this is taken away from the Church of Africa and the decrees of Nice haue most manifestly committed them whether they bee clarkes of inferior degree or whether they be Bishops themselues vnto their owne Metropolitanes For most wisely and iustly they foresawe that all businesses should be ended in their owne places where they began and that the grace of the holy ghost shoulde not be wanting to euery prouince whereby equitie by the priests of Christ might both be seene wisely also held most constantly especially because it is graunted to euerie man if he shal be offended with the iudgement of them that shall heare his cause to appeale to the Councels of his owne prouince or else to a generall councell Except peraduenture there be any man which beleeueth that our GOD can inspire the iustice of examination and triall into any one man whomsoeuer and doth denie the same to innumerable priestes gathered together in councell Or howe can the same iudgement giuen beyonde the sea be stedfast and sure vnto which the necessarie persons of witnesses either for infirmitie of sexe or of age or for many other letts that may happen cannot bee brought for that any iudges shoulde be sent as it were from the side of your holynesse we finde it decreed in no Synod of the fathers For that decree which you sent vnto vs long agoe by our saide fellowe Bishop Faustinus as a decree of the Nicene councell in the truer councell copies which are receiued of the Nicene councell being sent vnto vs out of the authenticall copie by holy Cyrillus our fellowe Byshop of the Church of Alexandria and by the worshipfull Atticus Byshop of Constantinople which also haue beene sent from vs before this time by Innocentius priest and Marcellus subdeacon by whom they were directed from them to vs vnto Bishoppe Bonifacius of worshipfull memorie your predecessour in which wee coulde finde no such matter Also your clarks as executors of your commaūdemēts neither send ye nor graunt yee to any that shall require them least we should seeme to bring the smokie pride of the world into the Church of Christ which to them that desire to see God sheweth forth the light of simplicitie and the day of humilitie for touching our brother Faustinus now that Appiarius a man to bee lamented is remoued out of the Church of Christ for his vnspeable wickednesse we are sure that sauing the honestie moderation of thy holinesse thy brotherly loue will not suffer him to remaine any longer in Africa And written with an other hande our Lord preserue your ho lynesse praying for vs in long life Lorde brother Thus haue I set downe the whole Epistle though it be somwhat long that the English reader may see and iudge of the whole matter in controuersie betweene the Bishops of Rome and all the bishops of all the countries of Africa which was the third part of the world and howe truely Bristow first denyeth the forgerie which was proued by copies sent from Alexandria Constantinople out of the authentical copie of the Councell of Nice Secondly that he saith the same matter in questiō for appeales was decreed by the councell of Sardica when this Epistle affirmeth y◠by no decrees of any Synod any such thing was appointed but the cleane contrary by the councell of Nice defined Thirdly where he saith those African fathers had smal cause to stand so much with the Popes in those appeales that they shew great cause Fourthly where Bristow saith that by this their doing nothing can be inferred against the Popes authoritie aboue prouinciall Councels more then against a generall Councels authoritie aboue a prouinciall when they shewe the last appeale to be permitted to any man that findeth himselfe grieued vnto the general councels Fiftly where he saith that popish kings bishops at this day stand with the Popes in the right of giuing benefices appeales c. with his owne good leaue wtout any preiudice to his superiority I aunswere the bishops of Africa wtout the Popes leaue against his wil decreed that whosoeuer did
authoritie or Peter him selfe superiour to the rest of the Apostles And consequently there is no cause to thinke that calamitie of the Greekes to be fallen vpon them for departing from that see In the 29. Demaund of Traditions where I charge Papistes out of Irenaeus lib. 3. 2. to be like to the Valentinians which accused the scriptures of imperfection saying that they are ambiguous and that the trueth can not be found in them by such as knewe not the tradition which was not deliuered by writing but by worde of mouth c. Bristowe answereth that S. Irenee him selfe as al Catholikes will haue both scripture and tradition Yea sir but what tradition any trueth of doctrine conserued by tradition which is not contained in the holie scriptures nothing lesse But appealeth to the testimonie of the Churches tradition for confirmation of that which is taught in the scriptures Hunc patrem c. This father of our Lorde Iesus Christ to be preached of the Churches they that wil may learne out of the scripture it selfe and vnderstand the Apostolike tradition of the Church seeing the Epistle is auncienter than they which nowe teach falsely c. So that what so euer the Apostles deliuered is contained in their writinges and it is still an hereticall assertion to say that all true doctrine is not deliuered by writing but some by word of mouth In the 34. Demaund of Authoritie where I affirme the order of the Apostles schoole is first to heare the word of God preached and then to beleeue Rom. 10. reprouing Allen which commended his friend that he first beleeued and afterward sought to vnderstand Bristowe obiecteth the authoritie of Augustine lib Retr 1. cap. 14. where he sheweth the cause whie he did write his booke de vtilitate credendi to haue ben for that the Manichees derided the discipline of the Catholike faith that men were commaunded to beleeue not taught by most certaine reason what was true whose slaunder Augustine confuteth in that booke and not defendeth Bristowes preposterous order As for examples of beleeuing Christ and his Apostles without requiring a reason of their doctrine howe vaine it is I leaue to children to laugh at seeing I speak not of reason but of the word of God preached which must needes goe before faith Neither doth Augustine meane any otherwise in his booke de vtil cred cap. 13. where he saith It is rightly appointed by the maiestie of the Catholike discipline that faith before all things is persuaded to them which come to religion But howe should faith be persuaded but by the preaching of the word of God without curious inquisition according to the reason of man Where I say that Protestants wil be ruled by their superiors so far as their superiors are ruled by the word of God Bristow derideth their authoritie who by our own confession may swarue from the truth of Gods word as though the Popish superiors might not or their supreme head although beside so many blasphemous errors as he holdeth wherof the controuersie is with the Papistes it haue not bene oft proued that diuers Popes haue bene condemned euen by generall Councels for heretikes Where I saide the Greeke Church will be ruled by the Patriake of Constantinople and the orientall Churches by their Patriarkes and Bishops Bristowe saith if I knewe the storie of the Florentine Councel wherein the Patriarkes agreed with the Catholikes Church in all things and yet could not reduce their countries from schisme I would not so say But I knewe that storie before Bristow knewe whether he would become a professed Papist or no. This consent is a forged paper found in the hande of Ioseph the Patriarke who died soudenly but in no acte of that Councel any such submission or agreement in all things appeareth but the contrarie Where I saide that to beleeue the Catholike Church is not to beleeue all and euery thing which the Catholike Church doth maintaine Bristowe would haue me suppose the Apostles had said Credo S. Romanam ecclesiam and then asketh howe I would haue construed it Verily euen as I conster Credo ecclesiam Catholicam And so would I conster Credo Sanctas scripturas Canonicas c. But if the Apostles would haue taught vs to giue credite to the Church of Rome in all things they would haue taught vs to say Credo Romanae ecclesiae And Credo scripturis Canonicis duodecim Apostolis quatuor Euangelistis c. I giue credite to the holy scriptures to the twelue Apostles and to the foure Euangelistes For Credo with an Accusatiue case to signifie I giue credite howe so euer you deride my grammatication will not be admitted in the kingdome of Grammarians except his holinesse will doe as much for that terme as he is reported to haue done once for fiatur In the 35. Demand of Vnitie where I said the Church may be called the house of peace because there is in it peace and agreement in the chiefest articles of faith Bristowe saith by this reason many olde heresies were with in the house of peace because any one article be it of the chiefest or of the meanest may breake peace as that of quartadecimani who disagreed onely in the day of Easter but that and such like disagrements in opinion might be in the house of peace as Irenaeus testifieth if obstinate contempt of generall order did not make a schisme and of a schisme an heresie as in the Donatistes Otherwise difference in a ceremonie as I said maketh not diuision of faith Bristowe saith yes if they holde their ceremonie necessarie But then they holde it not as a ceremonie or the Churches ceremonie vnlawfull But that maketh not diuision Polycarpus thought his ceremonie to be the right ceremonie against Anicetus yet he was not diuided from him for he considered the errour in a ceremonie not to be of such importance that it ought to breake the vnitie of the Church And therefore he refused not to communicate with Anicetus nor Anicetus with him No more doe they among vs that differ in opinion of ceremonies except some fewe schismaticall heades that are condemned of all men for their contention and stubbornesse The difference of opinions betweene the Popish Diuines and Canonistes Bristowe saith are such as may be among Christians as Augustine testifieth Cont. Iul. lib 1. cap. 2. de bapt Cont. Don. lib. 1. cap. 18. vntil a general Councel allowe some part for cleare and pure but we will not allowe the authoritie of any generall Councel if Bristowe may be beleeued If we might haue a Christiā generall Councel for such matters as are in controuersie among vs I doubt not but we should agree better then the Papistes which boast so much of vnitie As for the contention of the Popes and Councels superioritie remaineth still among you notwithstanding the Florentine Councel which you say most impudently that I confesse to haue resolued the matter when an other Councel and an other Pope at the same time
is cloathed and when he is naked when he is shauen and when he was bearded when he is sicke and when he is whole Such are the manners in which you houlde that the sacrifice of the masse is the same after another manner The 13. is where I attribute to diuorsement which the scripture in many places doth deny to diuorsement and doth attribute onely to death What is it to make her no wife that was a wife Verily diuorsement for adulterie maketh her no wife that was a wife as is gathered euen by those textes of scriptures which Bristowe quoteth Matt. 5. 19. Mark 10. c. where the exception of fornication maketh the case to be the same that was vsed by permission of the lawe in diuorsementes and mariage after diuorsementes But Bristowe saith I vtter herein my skil in many thinges As in saying that mariage after diuorsements is dispensed with all by the Pope And doe I not say true although the Popes law denyeth such mariage to be lawfull Are there not many examples of such dispensations Secondly I say that the Popes canon lawe hath farre many more causes of diuorsement then for adulterie Bristow distinguisheth the perpetuall diuorse for adulterie where the innocent partie cannot be compelled to receiue the guiltie partie although he become neuer so chast and separation where the furie of a man is so great that the wife is in danger of her life asking if we doe not allow her to dwell away from him vntill he be amended No verily but we would compell him to lie in prison from her vntill his amendement might sufficiently appeare But what saith your lawe concerning frigiditie concerning error in the condition of the person as if she marie a man which is bond whō she supposed to haue beene free c. Doth not your lawe allow diuorsements perpetuall in such cases But where I wish that adulterers might be punished with death first he quarelleth as though I held that the Iudiciall lawe were stil to be obserued as though it be not free in such poyntes as it is conuenient for other common welthes to receiue it albeit it is not necessarie Secondly he houldeth that a man was not punished by death if he sinned against his wife with a single woman Where as the case is expresly of a single man lying with another ' mans wife or of one that was betroathed to another man which must needes be all one of a maried man lying with a single woman Leuit. 20. and Deut. 22. And yet he noteth mine ignorance of the lawe because I charge the Papistes to allow dispensation for such persons to marie as the lawe of God and nature abhorreth Then he asketh me what lawe of God do I meane but Leu. 18 and whether I thinke that law to binde Christians Yea verily for the sense of nature abhorreth all those forbidden coniunctions What else moued the heathen Romanes to make lawes euen of the same But Bristow bringeth in Gods dispensation in the old Testament which is false for after the propagation of mankinde for which it was of necessitie allowed it can neuer be proued that God allowed any one of those mariages forbidden 18. But the Pope dispenseth not onely with marying of the brothers wife in affinitie but euen with the Vncle to marie his Neece in consanguinitie as we see in the mariage of King Philippe of Spaine in our daies The 14. after such ignorance in Gods lawe discouered Bristow marueileth not if I be ignorant in the Popishe Churches lawe and diuinitie in making it a certaine thing that the Pope giueth his pardons by the sacrament of penance Athough it be no great shame for me to professe mine ignorance in many of the popes lawes some part of his diuinitie yet herein Bristow doth me wrong to charge me to say absolutely that the Pope giueth his pardons by the sacramēt of penance As though the Pope being at Rome might minister a sacrament to one in England And that so great a D. doth not trowe that the power of binding and loosing is exercised many other wayes besides that sacrament Seeing the Master of the sentences cōprehendeth vnder the title of the sacrament of penance al that power or what soeuer he can enquire or define of it Lib. 4. Dist. 14. 15. 16. 17. But if sins may be forgiuē in popery without repentance that the Popes pardons require no repentāce in them that should take the benifite of them it is one poynt of poperie that I am content to confesse that I haue learned of Bristow The 15. poynt is that I am ignorant in our own diuinity because I wonder that a Papist should say that God sometime punisheth sinne with sinne and complaine that when we say but halfe somuch they chardge vs to make God the auctor of sinne For Bristowe asketh if it be not a cōmon position large discourses vpō it in our masters bookes that God is the author of sinne O impudent and malitious lyer hast thou read those bookes of Caluine Insti lib. 1. cap. 17. 18. Melancthō ad Rom. which thou quotest and darest thou for shame of the world if thou haue no feare of God to charge them with holding such a blasphemous positiō when they in the same bookes doe refute it as an horrible slaunder which they neuer thought of but alwayes affirmed that God as a righteous iudge not as an euill author Ioseth Satan and vseth his ministerie for the punishmēt of sin sinners and for the trial and amendment of his children as in Dauid Iob As for those blasphemies that God worketh sinne in vs by himselfe willing appoynting and predestinating vs to sin no lesse thē he which leadeth a blind man out of his way c. are nothing else but Bristowes lies slanders alwaies detested of those godly writers of all them that truly professe and imbrace the Gospel The 16. poynt is of mine ignorance in histories ecclesiastical as of the celebration of Easter by the Britons and Grecians noted before and answered Secondly because I say as it seemeth that Iulianus the Apostata was Emperour after Valens the Arrian Surely where I learned that he was a persecutor of the Church I might haue learned the time of his Emipre that he was next to Cōstantius after him Iouianus Valentinianus Valens sure I am that I learned it out of Carions Chronicle 30. yeares agoe Which being so vulgar a matter I thought none had beene so malicious to charge me with ignorance therof But indeede he chargeth me very iniuriously for when I say after that when Iulianus the Apostata was Emperour I meane to shewe how persecution and Gentility was restored after that Constantine had giuen peace beside the trouble of heresie which was in the time of Constantius and Constans to whom I ioined Valens as agreeing in that same heresie of Arrianisme Againe where I saide the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue
at the Emperors charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them Bristowe asketh me what Emperor or what faith but Catholike or Popish That which I saide of the Syrian Testament was to shewe that the Churches in Chaldea haue preserued the scriptures which yet are not subiect to the Church of Rome with the Emperors profession I delt not but his purpose I suppose was to encrease Christian faith and I am persuaded the reading of the scriptures in the mother tongue will not encrease Popish faith seeing Papists are so vnwilling that the people should read the worde of God in the natiue language Fourthly that I say the fathers alledging the succession of Bishops against heretikes specially named the Church of Rome because those heretikes for the most part had ben somtimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marciō Nouatus Against this Bristowe telleth me that Allen speaketh also of the Arrians Donatists and al heretikes But I spake of those fathers that alledged the succession of Bishops namely Irenaeus Tertullian and Cyprian Irenaeus testifieth of Valentinus Cerdon and Marcion that they were at Rome vnder Hyginus Pius and Anicetus and that Cerdon came often into the Church and made his confession and yet taught his heresie priuily and was excommunicated For Nouatus that he was a Prieste of the Church of Rome Eusebius is cleare Lib. 6. Cap. 42. But Cyprian calleth him Nouatianus whereas Nouatus had beene of Carthage but from thence was also gone to Rome I deny not but the similitude of the names might cause the Greeke writers to be deceiued as Bristowe saith and it may be that the name of Nouatianus in Cyprian is corrupted for Nouatus and the other called Nouatus in steade of Nauatus which name was then in vse But seeing the person of the heretike is certaine it is folly to striue for his name I haue shewed mine authour for Nouatus 〈◊〉 Rome and so for the rest wherefore I haue not bewraied any ignorance therein as Bristowe pretendeth The 17. and last point of mine ignorance is where I shewe wherein the communion of Saintes consisteth In that I say one can not merit for an other no not for him selfe but euery man hath his worthinesse of Christe As though saith Bristowe neither Christ could merite for any other no nor for him selfe because he had his worthinesse of God But I say that Christ because he was God had his worthinesse of him selfe and therefore did merite for vs. And see what secret blasphemie is contained in this comparison of Bristowe Where he would make a similitude of meriting betweene vs which please not God but onely through his mercy with Christe who satisfied the iustice of God But Bristowe chargeth me so to define the cōmunion of Saints that I allow no place for the praiers of the members aliue made for others that are aliue A vile slander when I speake of the grace and giftes of God which as euery one hath receiued of God so of charitie he is bound to imploy the same to the profite of his fellowe members here on earth But if we be bound of charitie to pray one for an other saith Bristowe whie are not these members in heauen as well Because there is not a lawe appointed for them that are in heauen and them that be in earth we knowe praier is commaunded vs we knowe not any praier commaunded them neither are we to trust to any such thing But the Scripture saith that Christes friendes doe reioice in heauen with his penitents in earth It saith so in deede of the Angels and I doubt not of the like affection of the blessed spirites but of their knowledge and if their knowledge were certaine yet it followeth not that they pray for the conuersion of sinners and much lesse that the mutuall offices of loue whereby one member hath compassion with an other can by any meanes touch the state of the deade to receiue any benefite thereby But an other quarrell is where I make the communion of the whole body to be the participation of life from Christ the head If this be all saith Bristow then there is no communion For what communion were it betweene the members of your naturall body if they did onely receiue life from your head and could not vse the saide life to profite one an other c. This man hath great leasure to trifle without any matter Who so shall reade my wordes Pur. 199. which he quoteth shall finde me to say That the communion of the whole body is the participation of life and all other offices of life that euery member and the whole body hath of the head as S. Paule teacheth plainely Ephes 4. If it be any office of a Christian life for one member to assist an other in that it may and as it ought I haue comprehended it but that Bristowe doth wilfully holde my saying and then play with it at his pleasure Yet he chargeth me with belying of Allen that he will haue other workes waies of saluation besides the bloud of Christ because he groundeth all works and waies of saluation in the bloud of Christ. But I reporting his words truly by plain distribution do gather that Allen will haue other workes and waies of saluation beside the bloud of Christ except you will say that is no way nor worke of saluation of it selfe without these waies and works of men If the bloud of Christ of it selfe be one way and worke of saluation and there be other waies and workes though grounded in it then are there more waies and workes of saluation than the onely redemption of Christe which I vnderstand by the bloud of Christ so I haue done Allen no iniurie but he hath offered hainous iniurie to the bloud of Christe and so doe al they which mixed it with any to purchase Gods fauour who is reconciled by none other merite or satisfaction but only by the bloud of the crosse of his Sonne our Lorde Iesus Christe to whome be praise for euer more In the thirtienth chapter or conclusion Bristowe doth only shew that there is in my two bookes stuffe ynough to make an other booke as bigge as this to the discredit of my partie I trust this booke of his as bigge as it is hath wrought no discredite to the cause I maintaine because I haue shewed howe it is stuffed with lies slaunders falsifications and cauillations such stuffe he may haue great store in the diuell his maisters schoole to make a booke tenne times as bigge as this was but for so much as he hath not aunswered any one of mine arguments or refelled any one of mine aunsweres to Allen in any right order leauing the defence of him as he pretendeth to defend the Church I confesse he hath left matter sufficient for any man that will vndertake the confutation of my bookes which this his vnorderly and vnsufficient replie notwithstanding I protest to remaine still in their strength and
Christ we are nourished to immortalitie Hereupon Sander inferreth that nourishmeÌ„r is meat really present ergo the bodie and bloud of Christ is really present This shal be graunted that the bodie bloud of Christ is really present with them whom it norisheth vnderstanding really for truly and indeede and vnfainedly But Christ saith Sander gaue with his handes that which nourisheth In proper forme of speech this is false for he had not his natural bodie and bloud in his hands but a sacrament thereof which was a seale and certaine perswasion vnto the faithfull of the performance of his promise which was the communicating of his body and bloude which was performed after an heauenly and spirituall manner CAP. VI. The vnion which is made by eating Christes reall flesh must needes be a naturall vnion before it be a mysticall For this naturall vnion he bringeth no proofe but promiseth the proofe in other places following therfore vnto those places I deferre the answere In the meane time it is a monstrous absurditie that seeing the mysticall vnion with Christ is of all the elect that euer were he affirmeth that it cannot be without a naturall vnion by eating Christs flesh and bloud in the sacrament CAP. VII That the Apologie speaking of the Lordes supper goeth cleane from the word of God The wordes of the Apologie are these We doe acknowledge the Eucharist or the Lordes supper to be a sacrament that is to say an euident token of the body and bloud of Christ. This is to bring men from the word of God saith he to the traditions of men For where haue you in all the scripture that the Lordes supper is a signe or token of the body and bloud of Christ that is a sacrament And because these wordes are not found in the scriptures from the beginning of the Genesis vnto the end of the Apocalipse writen in so many letters he fometh and fretteth like a mad dogg against the authors of the Apologie for going from the worde of God to the authority of men Augustine and Ambrose c. Then the which quarels nothing can be inuented more foolish or further from all witt learning and honesty For when we appeale to the authority of the scriptures in all thinges we neuer meant or saide that all other wordes should be forsaken which are not expressed in the bible but that no doctrine is to be credited by what terme so euer it be vttered except the same be grounded vpon the manifest sense and meaning of the holy scripture either expressed in plaine wordes or els gathered by necessary consequence Therefore seing the meaning of the names of sacrament signe or token may necessarily bee proued out of the holy scriptures and for that cause haue ben taken vp and vsed by the ancient fathers in the primitiue Church wee vse them as freely as they did and as we vse other names likewise the meaning of which is plaine to be found in the scriptures although the termes them selues be not as Trinity persons consubstantiall c. If Sander durst deny the names of sacrament signe or token to be agreable to the scriptures I would take paines to prooue them but seing he confesseth that they are good and lawfull to be vsed of the supper of Christ it were superfluous la bour to trauell in a needlesse question Among the names that are giuen to the Lordes supper in the scripture That the cupp is called The new testament in the bloud of Christ and that of S. Paul the supper is called spirituall meate and spirituall drinke which last name Sander heaping vp the rest omitteth it doth proue the names of sacrament signe and token soe inuincibly that we are no more afraide to vse them then any of the other expressed in plaine wordes of the scripture The name of sacrifice which he enterlaceth by the way because it is afterward more at large discussed I omit to write of at this time CAP. VIII That S. Ambrose and S. Augustine taught moe then two sacramentes It had bene meet that a sacrament had bene first defined and then this trifling should not haue arisen of the word Sander himselfe vnderstandeth mysterium in S. Ambrose for a mystery or sacrament And in deed the Greekes call that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the Latines call Sacramentum But if euery mystery shall be a Sacrament in that sense that baptisme and the Lordes supper are so called there shall not be onely seuen Sacraments as he would haue but more then seuentie The name therefore of Sacrament or mystery is somtims generally taken for euery secret thing that hath an hidden vnderstanding so is matrimony of S. Paul called a mystery and of Augustine the Sacrament of matrimonie and ordination is vsed De bon Con. Cap. 24. so is oyle and imposition of hands cont Donat. lib. 5. Cap. 20. reckoned among the mysteries and Sacramentes But that which Sander doth alleage out of Ambrose is inforced for speaking of the power which priestes haue to remitt sinnes by repentance or by baptisme he saith Vnum in vtroque mysterium Sed dices quia in â—auacro operatur mysterioruÌ„ gratia Quid in poenitentia nonne dei nomen operatur There is one mystery in both But thou wilt say because in baptisme the grace of the mysteries doth worke What in repentance doth not the name of God worke in these wordes although he call them both mysteries Yet he putteth a manifest difference for in baptisme he acknowledgeth the grace of the mysteries to worke with that visible seale in the other the name of god onely wtout a visible seale which Sander perceiuing and not being able to answere these places of Augustine and Ambrose which are cited by the authors of the Apologie for the number of the Sacramentes flieth to the authority of the late councell of Florence not regarding what Ambrose or Augustine hath written who he saith had not the charge to reckon vp how many Sacramentes there are And I say that the seuen Sacramentes were not named in any session of that councel but only in a decree of Eugenius the fourth vpon the surâ—ised reconciliation of the Armenians which is of small credit the same Eugenius for his notable wickednes being long before deposed by the councell of Basil and an other Pope being chosen in his place CAP. IX That the supper of our Lord is the chiefe Sacrament of all but not acknowledged of the Apologie according to the word of God Seing the holy scripture preferreth not the one Sacrament aboue the other and they are both a like effectual seales of the mercy of God to the saluation of his elect there is no cause why the Apologie shoulde acknoweledge such excellency of the one aboue the other as Sander would imagine But it is a matter of greate importance with Sander that Dionysius calleth it the Sacrament of Sacramentes whereby it is not onely proued to
haue no spirite in Sanders corporall iudgement when wee knowe not the wordes of Christ to be spirit and life as the which make all that they saide in the consecration of his holy mysteries but we acknowledge his wordes to be spirite life because he neuer giueth his flesh but with effect of his quickening spirite And that is a grosse spirite and a deadly life which imagineth all that to be made in the mysteries which the words soundeth for then the cuppe should be made bloud and the newe testament in his bloud What is They are spirite and life sayth Augustine in Ioan. T. 27. Spiritualiter intelligenda sunt they are to be vnderstood spiritually therfore not according to the sounde of wordes but according to the minde of the speaker It is colde deuotion saith Sander that hearing the body of Christ by himselfe affirmed to be present can eate without adoring and denye godly honour to it We eate not without adoring Master Sander although wee adore not that which we eate bodily but that which wee eate spiritually giuing this diuine honour vnto him that wee put our whole trust confidence in his redemption wherof this externall and visible sacrament is a pledge and assurance CAP. XXIII The reall presence of Christes body is proued by the confession of the Apologie The Apologie confesseth that Christ is giuen vs in the mysteries that wee may certeinly knowe we be flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones and that Christ continueth in vs and we in him If Christ be giuen vs sayeth Sander in these mysteries he is present in them for a gift is not made of a thing absent Yes Master Sander if the Prince at Westminster giue a manor lying in Yorkeshire by letters patents the Patentee which receiueth his Patent at Westminster hath the manor truely giuen vnto him which is in Yorkeshire Therefore a gift by sufficient assurance may be of a thing absent in nature thereof and so is Christes body giuen vs in the mysteries which are the seale of Gods promise truely giuing Christes body vnto vs which according to the naturall and corporal manner of presence is in heauen and not on the earth Col. 3. But Sander woulde vnderstande howe wee knowe that wee are flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones except it be by the reall corporall presence of Christ in the mysteries Yes forsooth wee knowe it by the worde of God which so testifieth Eph. 5. and by the spirite of Christ which dwelleth in vs Rom. 8. and last of all we haue assurance therof by the holy sacrament as by a seale confirmation and pledge of the perfourmance of Gods promises vnto vs. But a coniunction betwixt the flesh of Christ the flesh of men cannot be made saith he by faith spirite and vnderstanding As man and wife cannot become one flesh by consent of mariage except in deede they come bodily togither Yes sir wee holde that Christ is actually ioyned to the nature of man by his incarnation but this coniunction profiteth not all men but only them to whome he is ioyned by spirite faith vnderstanding and so the incarnation of Christ made all the fathers of the olde testament flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone For otherwise it is the spirite that quickeneth the flesh prositeth nothing What auaileth it the reprobate that God is become man ioyned in the same substance of fleshe bloud and bones and humane soule Nothing because they lacke the spirite of Christ and faith Last of all where he saith that man wise cannot become one flesh without carnal copulation it is a beastly opinion For he that sayde they shall bee two in one flesh spake of the holy coniunction of two persons in mariage according to Gods institution before carnall copulation by which the acte of generation is sanctified and the bed made to bee vndefiled not restraining the coniunction to the coupling of their bodies For the Scripture called Ioseph and Marie husband and wife although there were no comming together of their bodies And howe can the Papistes affirme Matrimonie to be a sacrament when the coniunction in one flesh which is the effect thereof cannot be wrought by the worde of God but is left in the choise of the man and the woman Last of all where Sander saith there is no other meanes taught in the Gospell howe Christ may be present in flesh or his flesh ioyned to our flesh but by meanes of transubstantiation it will fall out that seeing transubstantiation is not taught in the Gospell neither was thought vpon sixe hundred yeares in the Church but the contrarie manifestly proued that Christ is not present in flesh at all nor his flesh shoulde be ioyned to our flesh by any meanes Such trueth is in his assertions CAP. XXIIII The contrarietie of the Apologie is shewed and that the lifting vp of our heartes to heauen is no good cause why we should lift the bodie of Christ from the altar First he chargeth vs with great forgetfulnesse Afterwarde to make a shewe of contrarietie he falsifieth most impudently the wordes of the Apologie which he cited himselfe in the Chapter last before Christ giueth him selfe present in these mysteries c. therefore he is not here but in heauen feeding vs from thence This worde Present hee nowe addeth which because he missed before he would seeme to proue it by reason Shall I saye who euer had to doe with such a forgetfull man or rather with so shamelesse an heretike Although the Apologie neuer denyeth simply the presence of Christ in the mysteries but alwayes that manner of presence which the papists affirme and is now in controuersie betweene vs. That the exhortation to lift vp mens heartes is no good argument to proue that Christ is onely in heauen he vseth much foolish babling as though that saying onely were brought for an argument or that saying of it selfe for a sufficient argument or that saying for any argument But where the Scripture sayth that Christ after his ascension concerning his humanitie hath left the worlde Ioan. 16. which the Apostles vnderstood to be spoken plainly and without all parable and that he sitteth in heauen and not on earth Col. 3. the Apologie sayth this is the cause why the people are exhorted to lift vp their heartes and not as Sander peruerteth it because the people are exhorted to lift vp their heartes therefore Christ is not present in his mysteries But lifting vp of heartes with the olde fathers was to acknowledge the mysteries vpon the table to beleeue the sacrifice of the Masse and not to denye the reall presence of Christ saith Sander Doe you not looke for some sound argument to proue this geare especially of him which immediatly before charged the author of the Apologie to vse an argument more like a tinker than a diuine you shall heare his argument of authority of Chrysostom Hom. de Eucharistia Diddest
and the same breade and wine must againe signifie the flesh and bloud of Christ although wee say that bread and wine in the sacrament are a seale and confirmation of that doctrine which Christe teacheth in this Chapter concerning the eating and drinking of his very true and naturall flesh and bloud which hath power to seede vnto eternall life them that eat and drinke it spiritually as there is none other way of eating and drinking thereof but by faith through the almightie working of Gods holy spirite The fourth Booke The preface of the fourth Book declareth that he purposeth in the same to shew that the words of the institution of the supper are proper and not figuratiue and so haue beene taken aboue 1500. And that they are proper he wili prooue by circumstances of the supper by conference of scriptures out of the olde and newe Testament by the commandement giuen to the Apostles to continue the sacrament vntil the second comming of Christ. Last of all he craueth pardon if he chaunce to say somewhat that was touched before affirming that his purporse is not so to doe although by affinitie of the argument desire to haue the thing remembred or by his owne forgetfulnesse he may be caused to fall into that default CAP. I. That no reason ought to be hearde why the wordes of Christes supper should nowe be expounded vnproperly or figâ—ratiuely And that the Sacramentarics can neuer be sure thereof Christ saith he in his last supper was both a testator and a lawe maker a testator in giuing his bodie and 〈…〉 oude and a lawemaker in commanding his Apostels 〈…〉 d their successours to continue the making of this 〈…〉 acrament This testament and law was soone after writ 〈…〉 n and published At which time and euer since the Church hath taken these wordes This is my bodie not 〈…〉 guratiuely but properly This last saying is vtterly 〈…〉 alse neither can it bee prooued by Ambrose Chryso 〈…〉 tome Augustine Theodoret whom hee nameth or any before or after their time for 600 yeares that euer the visible Sacrament was adored as the very bodie of Christ. If he haue any thing to shewe we shall haue it hereafter But it is a follie he saith vpon allegation of a thing so farre beyonde the memorie of man as the primitiue Church is to leaue the custome of the present Church which Christ no lesse redeemed gouerneth and loueth then he did the faithfull of the first sixe hundreth yeares I answere shortly that is not the Church of Christ but of antichrist which of late yeares hath taught the worshiping of the sacrament as God and man And whereas Sander replieth that then we shall haue no quietnes or end of controuersies if heretikes may appeale to the primitiue Church as the Trinitaries in Poolande and the Circumciders in Lithuania for these appeale to the primitiue Church and denie writings of Fathers and scriptures as the Protestant I answere the Protestants receiue all the canonicall scriptures by which all heresie may be condemned the autoritie or practise of the primitiue Church they alledge but as a witnesse of trueth which is sufficient prooued out of the worde of God Whereas he saith there was but one vniuersall chaunge to bee looked for in religion which was to be made by Christ I affirme the trueth of Christs religion to be vnchangeable but there was an vniuersall chaunge to be looked for from Christes religion to Antichrist which saint Paul calleth an Apostasie saint Iohn in the Reuelation the cuppe of fornication whereof all nations should drinke c. Yet was not this chaunge so vniuersal but that the seruants of God though in small number and credit with the world were preserued out of that generall apostasie and called out of Babylon as wee see it nowe come to passe by the preaching of the eternall Gospel then also foreshewed Apocal. 14. 17. 18. c. Another reason why we shoulde giue none eare to them that say the words are figuratiue is for that then wee shoulde doubt of our former faith and in doubting become men that lacke faith And why should you not onely doubt but refuse a false opinion beleeued contrarie to the worde of God But wee must tell Sander whether hee that gaue eare first to Berengarius and Zwinglius may giue eare to an other that shoulde say the Apostels had no authoritie to write holie Scriptures No forsooth for hee that gaue eare to Berengarius and Zwinglius did heare them because they brought the authoritie of scriptures which is the onely certaine rule of truth against which no question or doubt may be mooued As for the opinion of carnall presence if it had beene as generally receiued before Berengarius as Sander falsely affirmeth yet it was lawfull to bring it to the triall of holy Scriptures as we doe all the articles of our faith which are true not so much because they are generally receiued as for that they are manifestly approued by the authoritie of the holy scriptures But Sander will yet enter farther into the bowels of the cause before he heare what reasons caÌ„ be brought against the popish faith he saith the Sacramentaries cannot possiblie haue any grounde of their doctrine that the wordes of Christ in the supper are figuratiue either in respect of the worde written or the faith of all Christians or the glorie of God or the loue of Christ toward vs or the profite of his Church Yes verilie all these fiue respects moue vs to take the wordes of Christ at his supper to be figuratiue And First the word written by saint Luke and saint Paul This cuppe is the newe Testament in my bloude which wordes being manifestly figuratiue haue the same sense that the other rehearsed by Saint Matthewe and Saint Marke This is my bloude and that these wordes haue This is my bodie which are vsed by all fower Therefore by the written worde they are all figuratiue and signifie the deliuerie of a Sacrament or seale of the newe couenant established in the death and bloudshedding of the sonne of God Secondly the faith of all Christians for sixe hundred yeares and more after Christe hath beene sufficiently prooued to haue vnderstoode the wordes figuratiuely for a figure signe token pledge of the bodie and bloude of Christe and not for the verie substance contained in formes of breade and wine Insomuch that the verie glosse vppon the Canon Lawe De cons. dist 2. Cap. Hoc est hath these wordes Coeleste Sacramentum quod verè representat Christi carnem dicitur corpus Christi sed impropriè vnde dicitur suo modo sed non in veritate sed significante mysterio vt sit sensus vocatur corpus Christi id est significat The heauenly Sacrament which truely representeth the fleshe of Christ is called the bodie of Christ but improperly Whereof it is saide to bee after a peculyar manner but not in trueth of the thing but in
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which must needes be reserred to corpus and cannot be referred to figura corporis And heere hee obtesteth that he may be instructed wherein he doth misconstrue the wordes I haue already satisfied his requeste and further I say he doth without all Grammar Rhetorike Logike Philosophie and Diuinitie referre hoc to corpus which is to bee referred to that thing which hee had in his hande which by their owne Popishe diuinitie could bee nothing but breade before hee had spoken out the wordes of consecration As for him that will lay the figure in the Verbe 〈◊〉 to take it for significat Sander counteth him an ignorant man because it must bee resolued by est significant and then the reason of signifying shall be founde in the nowne bodie rather then in the verbe Is for which cause Occolampadius admitted either the one or the other that is est for significat or copus for signum corporis In deede the matter is not great for the sense but when you call vs to construing the words by Grammar But taking the proposition thus Hoc est significans corpus meum I saye the reason of signifying consisteth not in the worde Bodie but in the subiect of the proposition which is the signe of the bodie although significans followe the Verbe est For the action of signifying pertaineth to the bread the passion signified pertayneth to the bodie Where Sander challengeth all the Grammarians in Christendome to finde another construction I appeale to all the Grammarians in the worlde whether these wordes Hoc est corpus meum quod provobis datur may not be construed grammatically as wel as these other examples out of Genesis Exodus and a thousand more of like that might be added The 19. circumstance of the Verbe facere to doe or make or to offer sacrifice The Verbe facere which signifieth most generally making and doing he will haue now to signifie offring sacrifice because that is the most excellent deede that can bee made which is a madde reason if Christ which doth alwayes the best thinges shoulde be saide to offer sacrifice so often as he saide facere For euerie thing that he did was the best in all respects that he did it But to prooue that facere signifieth sometime to offer sacrifice he quoteth two places of Scripture but reherseth neither of both for shame the first 3 Reg. 18. Where Elias saith to the Baalites ego faciam bouem alterum Where facere signifieth not to offer sacrifice but to prepare or dresse or make ready an oxe or at the least is taken for interficere to kill an oxe which afterwarde is laide on the woâ—de and offered by inuocation The other place Leu. 15. is of two turtle Doues faciet vnum pro peccato alterum in holocauslum he shall prepare the one for a sinne offering and the other to be a burnt offering where facere signifieth as before to make readie by killing drawing washing and dressing as the Lawe prescribed The same Hebrewe verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whiche is vsed in both places beeing spoken of the Calfe that Abraham made readie for his guestes the olde interpreter turneth by the verbe coquo which signifieth to dresse as a cooke dresseth Genesis 18. Wherefore we haue not yet founde facere in the scripture for sacrificare to offer sacrifice But Sander saying it skâ—leth not whether it be ioyned with another worde in the accusatiue or ablatiue case or stande alone doth insinuate that although in scripture it cannot bee prooued to haue that signification yet in some other writer it is vsed for sacrificare ioyned with a nowne of the ablatiue case namely in Virgil Cùm faciam vitula pro frugibus ipse venito where yet a good Grammarian will not construe facere absolutely to sacrifice but vnderstand oblationen or rem diâ—â—nam or some such like worde But in our texte the circumstance of deedes and words saith he do make it so to signifie First because the 14. day at euening hee began the blessed sacrifice of his passion Secondly hee hath offered the olde Paschal Lambe the chiefe sacrifice of the Lawe These two circumstances shew it was time to go about his only sacrifice on the crosse they proue not that he offered another sacrifice at the table Thirdly hetoke breade and wine into his handes part of the sacrifice of Melchisedek I answere the scripture telleth vs not of any such sacrifice of Melchisedek Fourthly he blessed and gaue thankes wherein he consecrateth his owne bodie the onely sacrifice of mankinde I answere his owne bodie had no neede of consecration hee consecrated breade to bee a sacrament of his bodie which was not the onely sacrifice for mankind which was but once and no more offered or to be offered Not that he should oftentimes offer vp himselfe saith the Apostle Heb. 9. ver 25. wherefore his commaundement hoc facite doe this is not to make a sacrifice of Christs bodie which hee made not But Cyptian saith Sander taketh the verbe facere so lib. 2. Ep. 3. Iesus Christus c. Iesus Christ our Lord and God himself is the hiest priest of God the father and first hath offered sacrifice vnto God the father Et hoc fieri 〈◊〉 sui commemorationem praecepit and hath commaunded this thing to be done in his remembrance That fieri signifieth heere not offerri but generally hath relation to all that Christ did not onely the whole argument of the Epistle which was against ministring with water onely but also the verie wordes following which Sander hath fraudulently cut off declare sufficiently vtique ille saccrdos vice Christi verè fungitur qui id quod Christus fecit imitatur c Verily that Priest doth truely supply the roome of Christ which imitateth that which Christ hath done and then he offereth a true and full sacrifice to God the father in the Church if he so begin to offer according as he may see Christ himselfe to haue offered Nay that Cyprian meaneth not that Christ in his supper did offer his owne bodie in sacrifice to his father for redemption of he worlde but onely a sacrifice of thankesgiuing and commaunded the same to bee kept in remembrance of his passion Cyprian himselfe testifieth in the same Epistle Et quia passionis eius mentionem in sacrificijs omnibus facimus passio est enim domini sacrificium quod offerimus nihil aliud quà m quod ille fecit facere debemus And because wee make mention of his passion in all sacrifices for the sacrifice which wee offer is the passion of our Lorde wee ought to doe nothing but that which hee himselfe did Note heere the sacrifice which Cyprian offered was the passion of Christ as well as the bodie of Christ but it was not the passion of Christ properly therefore it was not the bodie of Christ properly I might alleage other places out of that Epistle to refell the impudencie of Sander
I vsed in the Chapter last before But Sander exclaimeth against the shamelesse interpretation of heretikes which imagine that S. Paul said he that eating by mouth materiall bread at Christs â—â—â—per refuseth to eate by faith the bodie of Christ sitting in heauen 〈◊〉 guiltie of not eating Christs bodie Who euer heard of such a 〈◊〉 Nay rather who euer heard of such a lie For which of yâ— Sacramentaries as you call them doeth so interprete S. Paul Although we say that he is guiltie of Christs bodie which contemneth the same in his Sacrament and either receiueth it negligently or els refuseth to receiue it contumeliously For not only the reprobates receiue vnworthily but sometimes also the elect of whome the Apostle especially speaketh disswading them from receiuing vnworthily wherby as by other sinnes they pro uoke God to punish them deserue eternal damnation if god should deale with them according to their deserts But to condemne a man for eating the bodie of Christ who did eat only the figure of it semeth great vniustice to Sander And yet the scripture neuer saith that any maÌ„ is condemned for eating the bodie of Christ but for eating the Sacrament vnworthily he is guiltie of the bodie bloud of Christ wherof that is a Sacrament Tush saith Sander if it were so meant the talk of Saint Paul would no more hang together then if it were said he that toucheth vnworthily the kinges garment is guiltie of murthering his person I answer first the Sacrament of the bodie bloud of Christ is a thing that more neere coÌ„cerneth Christ then the kings garment doth concerne the king therfore the similitude is nought but yet he that with contempt toucheth the kings garment is guilty of coÌ„tempt of the kings person And he that of malice thrusteth his weapon through the kinges garment might iustly be guiltie of murthering his person euen so and much rather as the neglect or contempt of the Lords sa crament is lesse or more so much is the guiltines against the Lords person although his bodie bloud be no more touched by the contemners then the kings person by the abusers of his garment image crown scepter seal or instrument Sander after this professeth that he is loath to heap vp in this place the manifold witnesses of the auncient fathers coÌ„cerning that euil men eat Christs body whose words he hath partly touched before li. 2. Cap 3. And I am as loth to repete that I haue so often answered vn â—o him others therfore I wil only note the places wher 〈◊〉 fathers cited by Sander are both rehersed more at larg fully answered Namely Theodoret in 1. Cor. Cap. 11. â—llud autem c. In mine answer to D. Hesk li. 3 Ca. 52. Priâ—osius li. 3. Ca. 50 Sedulius 〈◊〉 Ca 49. S. Hierom in 1. Cor. Cap. 11. â—i 3. Ca. 54 Chrysost in Math. Hom. 83. li. 3 Cap. 46. Augustin de baptismo cont Donatist li. 5 ca. 8. li 3. ca 48. As for Haymo Theophylact late writers I wil noâ— staâ—d vpon their authorities There remaineth only Cy 〈…〉 l in Ioan. li. 9. Ca. 19. vpon these wordâ— Exiuit conti 〈…〉 Iudas went out by by after the supper c. which Sander citeth thus Timet diabolus benedictioris virtutem nâ— sâ—intillam in animo cius accenderit The aâ—uell feareth the vertue of the consecration or blessing lest perhaps it might haue kindled a sparke of grace or of repentance in his minde But the words of Cyrill howsoeuer it bath pleased M. Sander to mangle them are thus Timet vt credo diabolus ne morando locus poenitentiae detur quasi a temulentia mentem suam rectius cogitans homo cripiat hac de causa festinat impellit Nam etiam Iudam cùm post panem omnino se parauerit tum moram tum benedictionis virtutem timens ne scintillam in animo eius accenderit ac inde illuminauerit ad meliora retraxerit magna praecipitem agit ecleritate The diuel as I think feareth lest by tarying place might be giuen to repentance the man thinking better might deliuer his minde as it were from dronkennes For this cause he maketh haste driueth forward For with great celeritie he driueth euen Iudas hedlong when after the bread he had altogither prepared himself fearing both the delaie and the vertue of the blessing least it hath kindled a sparke in his minde and thereof hath lightened him and drawen him to better thinges This saying of Cyrillus doth no lesse differ in sense and vnderstanding from Sanders slanderous report of him then it doth in forme context of wordes from that which Sander affirmeth to be his saying For Cyrill plainly caleth it bread which Iudas had receiued Again it was the vertue of the blessing and not the presence of the body of Christ which the diuel feared What is this for the reall presence ACP. X. The reall presence is prooued by the kinde of discerning 〈◊〉 Lordes body First he laboureth to proue that the fault of the Corinthians was not malicious contempt of Christ but such contempt as riseth of negligence and lack of discretion TheÌ„ he reasoneth thus because S. Paul chargeth them to be guiltie not onely of Christes worship and name but also of his owne bodie and bloude with which fault he neuer burthened any other then the vnworthy receiuers or the Iewes that laide iniurious hands vpoÌ„ Christ at his death it must needes be that such a communicant receiueth Christs naturall bodie I answere not onely they are guiltie of Christes bodie and bloude which receiue the communion vnworthily and which laide violent handes on Christes person but euen they also that crucifie the sonne of GOD againe of whom the Apostle speaketh Heb. 6. verse 6. and corrupt the bloud of his Testament by which they are sanctified wholy Heb. 10. vers 29. Neither are they burthened with a greater fault then they committe which vnworthily receiuing the pledge of Christes presence are saide to offend against Christ himselfe But Sander vrgeth the argument of discerning further because the Apostle biddeth them put a difference betweene Christes bodie and all other meates or creatures in the world it is euident that none other meaâ—e or creature is present besides the bodie of Christ. I deny the argument which followeth as this He that despiseth circumcision hath broken the couenant of God as God saith Gen. 17 ergo circumcision is nothing but the couenant of God and not an outward seale and signe thereof He that despiseth Baptisme despiseth the bloude of Christ and the spirit of God by which baptisme is sanctified therefore the water of baptisme is the bloud of Christ or the holy Ghost really Wherefore he that discerneth not the Sacrament which is called and to the worthy receiuer is in 〈…〉 ede the body and bloud of Christ after a certaine ma 〈…〉 r from common meate is guiltie of the bodie and
earth in Ioan Tr. 50. Tsll me whether it was the visible forme of bloud which was shedde on the crosse or the very substance of his bloud If thou say it was the very substance which thou must say except thou be a Marcionite or Manichee then it was the verie substance of his bloud which Augustine denyeth to be drunken in the Sacrament But Augustine saith Sander was so fully persuaded that the fleshe of Christ was to bee adored vnder the forme of bread after consecration that he reacheth the Christian people to adore it not as common flesh but as the flesh of God for whose sake we adore it Cùâ—â—d â—erram quamlibet c. when thou bowest thy self or fallest down before any earth looke not upon is as earth but looke vpon that holy one whose footstoole it is which thou adorest for thou adorest for his sake Now saith Sander what is it to say before any earth doubtles before any host coÌ„secrated c. Doubtlesse this is a clearkly interpretation that quaeâ—ibet terra any earth or euery earth that a mâ—n doth bowe vnto is a consecrated host Not onely the flesh of Christe is earth to bee worshipped but all Princes and Magistrates are earth to bee worshipped in respect of whome Augustine saith cùm ad terram c. when thou bowest downe to any earth consider God and not man whome thou worshippest in that man euen as in worshipping the flesh of Christ wee stay not in his flesh but ascend vnto his spirite for thus his wordes runne Numquid autem caro viâ—ificat What doth the flesh giue life Our Lord himselfe hath said when he spake of the commending of the same earth It is the spirite that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing Ideo ad terram quaÌ„libeâ— cùm te incliâ—as c. Therefore also when thou bowest and castest downe thy selfe vnto any earth whatsoeuer behold it not as earth but that holy one whose footstoole that is which thou adorest for thou adorest for his sake Therefore here also he hath added worshippe his footstoole because it is holy c. The coniunction also which Sander hath craftily suppressed declareth that Augustine speaketh not onely of worshipping the flesh of Christ as the footstoole of God but also of worshippe giuen to any other earth which must wholy bee referred to God You see how inuincibly it is prooued that catholike men in S. Augustines time vsed to bowe down and to adore the Sacrament of the altar as San 〈…〉 no no more vntruely then ridiculously doth vaunt and 〈…〉 gge vpon the worshipping of any earth CAP. III. It is proued out of the Prophets that it can be no Idolatry to 〈…〉 ship the body bloud of Christ in the Sacrament of the altar Sander first presupposeth the body and bloud of Christ 〈…〉 be really present in the Sacrament and then he defen 〈…〉 h it is no Idolatry to worshippe it But this is contra 〈…〉 to his promise for he vndertooke to prooue the reall 〈…〉 ence by the adoration that is dew to the Sacrament 〈…〉 d not the adoration by the reall presence But it is a â—onderful absurditie with him to say that it is Idolatry 〈◊〉 worshippe with godly honor the body and bloud of â—hrist in the Sacrament of the altar First because this say 〈…〉 g presupposeth externall Idols not to haue bene taken away by 〈…〉 e comming of Christ which is against the expresse worde of God If all externall Idols had bene taken away by the coming of Christ the Apostles would not so seriously haue warned men to beware of all Idolatry 1. Cor. 10. of the pollutions of Idols act 15. 1. Iohn 5. c. Secondly it presupposeth saith he that Idolatry should be maintained by Christians by Publike doctrine and vniuersall practise in open Churches c. Not by true Christians but by false Christians the times of Antichrist as was prophecied Apo. â—3 9. Thirdly it presupposeth that Christ gaue occasion by his owne word that Idolatry should be committed to bakers bread c. Christ gaue none occasion to worshippe bread more then to worship a dore or a vine tree Last of all it is a most foolish thing to say the Bishop of Rome was the cause of that worshipping and also to teach that hee is Antichrist Nothing more agreeable to reason then that Antichrist should set vp an Idole that he himselfe by it might aspire to the greatest honor But Antichrist saith Sander is an aduersary and setteth himselfe against Christ but the Pope calleth himselfe the vicar of Christ and the seruant of seruantes Vnder the colour of these titles he arrogateth to himselfe power and honor aboue Christ to giue pardoÌ„ in papers sealed with lead a poena culpa when he teacheth that the pardon that Christ sealed with his bloud is only a culpa froÌ„ the fault but not from the punishment And yet the Popein his Canon lawe refuseth not to be called God aboue al Gods Secondly Antichrist aduaunceth himself aboue all that i◠〈…〉 shipped as God therfore he wil not how to an externall Id 〈…〉 commeth of superstition and pusillanimitie I answere 〈◊〉 Pope although he stoop not verie low to the sacramâ—â—â— of the Altar which is carried before him on a pal 〈…〉 when he himselfe is carried on mens sholders yet he pretendeth a familiar kinde of reuerence not of super 〈…〉 on but of subtiltie and fraude to couer his pride by hypocrisie that with deceit of vnrighteousnes he may preuaile in them that perish 2. Thess. 2. Thirdly Antichrist shall shew false signes and wonders to deceiue wicked men by So hath the Pope his members doâ— an infinite number wherof the Legends other lewâ—â— bookes are stuffed ful And euen Pius Quintus late Pope counterfeited casting out of diuels Fourthly Antichrist is aduaunced aboue all idols th 〈…〉 shall set vp no idoll but himselfe therefore if the Pope set 〈◊〉 idol he is not antichrist I answere the Pope hath set vp 〈◊〉 idols but to aduaunce himself aboue them all For although he hath set vp the idolatrie of the Sacramens calling it god man yet what papist thinketh it not 〈◊〉 meritorious to worship kisle the Popes feete at Roâ—â— then to worship the sacrament daily in his owne pa 〈…〉 church What right Papist trusteth not more in a pa 〈…〉 of the Popes then in any thing that he loketh to receiue froÌ„ the sacrament of the altar wherfore this an hundred such like matters but that the Pope hath aduauced hims 〈…〉 aboue yâ— idols which he himself hath made coÌ„manded men to worship not for Christs honor but for his owne diuelish aduancement As for the profession of the Pope to worship Christ in the Sacrament in the signe of the crosse in praying to his saints by which Sandâ—r worlde discharge him froÌ„ antichristianitie is nothing elâ—â— but hypocrisie in him which hath no religion as it hath openly