as_o his_o great_a fall_n witness_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o that_o fatal_a hail_n that_o make_v more_o orphan_n than_o his_o child_n yet_o to_o do_v a_o ill_a or_o a_o uncivil_a thing_n he_o be_v a_o arrant_a coward_n though_o he_o be_v of_o david_n stature_n of_o his_o courage_n too_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o in_o this_o most_o like_o he_o afraid_a of_o nothing_o but_o to_o offend_v but_o what_o need_v any_o body_n plead_v for_o his_o civility_n more_o than_o this_o present_a discourse_n where_o he_o excel_v his_o antagonist_n in_o that_o as_o well_o as_o in_o reason_n and_o show_v that_o a_o gentleman_n write_v with_o a_o scholar_n pen._n before_o i_o shut_v up_o all_o my_o lord_n one_o virtue_n there_o be_v yet_o to_o be_v mention_v which_o of_o all_o that_o ever_o have_v relation_n to_o his_o lordship_n i_o may_v not_o i_o must_v not_o ever_o forget_v and_o that_o be_v his_o friendship_n that_o be_v a_o virtue_n which_o by_o the_o unintermitted_a affliction_n 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from_o the_o aposty_n nay_o he_o absolute_o affirm_v that_o before_o nazianzene_n no_o man_n ever_o teach_v any_o thing_n of_o her_o delivery_n without_o pain_n yet_o many_o think_v the_o contrary_n three_o and_o last_o 202._o pag._n 202._o for_o your_o absolute_a confutation_n he_o confess_v that_o we_o believe_v and_o hold_v in_o this_o age_n many_o thing_n for_o mystery_n of_o faith_n which_o in_o former_a age_n do_v waver_v under_o small_a or_o no_o probability_n and_o many_o thing_n be_v now_o define_v for_o article_n of_o faith_n which_o have_v endure_v a_o hard_a repulse_n among_o the_o most_o and_o the_o weighty_a of_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n and_o no_o light_a contradiction_n among_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o have_v reckon_v up_o five_o particular_n the_o validity_n of_o heretic_n baptism_n the_o beatifical_a vision_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n the_o spirituallity_n of_o angel_n the_o soul_n be_v immediate_o create_v and_o not_o ex_fw-la traduce_n and_o the_o 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enquiry_n which_o protestant_n be_v bind_v to_o make_v to_o answer_v to_o this_o objection_n to_o find_v out_o a_o existence_n of_o some_o professor_n of_o the_o reform_a doctrine_n before_o luther_n time_n for_o find_v the_o catholic_n be_v not_o oblige_v to_o prove_v the_o negative_a it_o be_v my_o part_n to_o prove_v to_o myself_o the_o affirmative_a that_o our_o religion_n be_v no_o innovation_n by_o some_o pre-existence_n before_o that_o but_o in_o the_o perusal_n of_o all_o the_o story_n or_o record_n ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a as_o i_o can_v choose_v i_o can_v find_v no_o ancient_a a_o dissension_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n then_o waldo_n wickliff_n or_o husse_v who_o cause_n have_v relation_n to_o the_o now-professed_n protestancy_n so_o as_o i_o find_v a_o interval_n of_o about_o eight_o hundred_o year_n from_o the_o time_n that_o all_o the_o protestant_n confess_v a_o unity_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n down_o to_o those_o person_n without_o any_o apparent_a profession_n of_o different_a faith_n to_o answer_v myself_o in_o this_o point_n i_o read_v many_o of_o our_o protestant_a author_n who_o treat_v of_o it_o and_o i_o find_v most_o of_o they_o reply_n to_o this_o sense_n in_o which_o i_o cite_v here_o one_o of_o the_o most_o authentic_a doctor_n whitaker_n in_o his_o controversy_n 2.3_o pag._n 479._o where_o they_o ask_v of_o we_o where_o our_o church_n be_v heretofore_o for_o so_o many_o age_n we_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v in_o secret_a solitude_n that_o be_v to_o say_v it_o be_v conceal_v and_o lay_v hide_v from_o the_o sight_n of_o man_n and_o further_o the_o same_o doctor_n chap._n 4._o pag._n 502._o our_o church_n always_o be_v but_o you_o say_v it_o be_v not_o visible_a do_v that_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v not_o no_o for_o it_o lay_v hide_v in_o a_o solitary_a concealment_n to_o this_o direct_a sense_n be_v all_o the_o
the_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o end_n of_o the_o church_n a_o exact_a conservation_n make_v a_o exact_a church_n and_o a_o less_o perfect_a conserve_n a_o less_o perfect_a church_n as_o for_o conveyance_n of_o doctrine_n the_o whole_a church_n convey_v none_o whereof_o many_o if_o his_o be_v it_o have_v have_v but_o little_o convey_v to_o they_o particular_a christian_n especial_o pastor_n teach_v other_o which_o it_o be_v every_o man_n duty_n to_o do_v when_o he_o meet_v with_o they_o who_o want_v instruction_n which_o he_o can_v give_v and_o they_o be_v likely_a to_o receive_v yet_o be_v not_o the_o instruction_n of_o other_o every_o man_n main_a end_n but_o mr._n montague_n i_o know_v persuade_v he_o that_o some_o body_n of_o man_n be_v appoint_v to_o convey_v this_o doctrine_n which_o man_n be_v to_o receive_v only_o because_o they_o deliver_v it_o and_o this_o i_o absolute_o deny_v for_o we_o receive_v no_o doctrine_n from_o the_o church_n upon_o the_o church_n authority_n because_o we_o know_v she_o not_o to_o be_v the_o church_n till_o we_o have_v examine_v her_o doctrine_n and_o so_o rather_o receive_v she_o for_o it_o than_o it_o for_o she_o neither_o for_o the_o conveyance_n of_o the_o truth_n be_v it_o necessary_a that_o any_o company_n of_o man_n in_o all_o time_n hold_v it_o all_o because_o some_o may_v convey_v some_o truth_n and_o other_o another_o out_o of_o which_o by_o compare_v their_o doctrine_n with_o the_o scripture_n man_n may_v draw_v forth_o a_o whole_a and_o perfect_a body_n of_o truth_n and_o though_o they_o deliver_v few_o other_o truth_n yet_o in_o deliver_v scripture_n wherein_o all_o necessary_a truth_n be_v contain_v they_o deliver_v all_o and_o by_o that_o rule_n whosoever_o regulate_v his_o life_n and_o doctrine_n i_o be_o confident_a that_o though_o he_o may_v mistake_v error_n for_o truth_n in_o the_o way_n he_o shall_v nerve_n mistake_v hell_n for_o heaven_n in_o the_o end_n seven_o his_o next_o reason_n be_v their_o common_a achilles_n the_o four_o of_o the_o ephesian_n which_o he_o choose_v only_o to_o employ_v like_o his_o triarios_fw-la his_o main_a battle_n leave_v his_o velite_n his_o light-armed_n soldier_n some_o place_n too_o allegorical_a even_o in_o his_o own_o opinion_n to_o stand_v examination_n the_o word_n be_v these_o he_o have_v give_v some_o prophet_n some_o apostle_n 13_o verse_n 11.12_o 13_o some_o evangelist_n some_o pastor_n and_o some_o doctor_n for_o the_o instauration_n of_o the_o saint_n for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n for_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n till_o we_o all_o meet_v in_o the_o unity_n of_o faith_n and_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n unto_o a_o perfect_a man_n and_o unto_o the_o measure_n of_o the_o age_n of_o the_o fullness_n of_o christ_n that_o we_o may_v be_v no_o more_o child_n toss_v and_o carry_v about_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n etc._n etc._n now_o out_o of_o this_o place_n i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o succession_n may_v be_v evince_v rather_o i_o think_v it_o may_v if_o that_o apostle_n mean_v none_o for_o first_o he_o say_v not_o i_o will_v give_v but_o he_o have_v give_v and_o who_o can_v suppose_v that_o the_o apostle_n can_v say_v that_o christ_n have_v give_v than_o the_o present_a pope_n and_o the_o doctor_n who_o now_o adhere_v to_o he_o second_o allow_v that_o by_o what_o he_o have_v give_v be_v mean_v he_o have_v promise_v which_o will_v be_v a_o gloss_n not_o much_o unlike_a to_o that_o which_o one_o of_o the_o most_o witty_a and_o most_o eloquent_a of_o our_o modern_a divine_n doctor_n donne_n note_n of_o statuimus_fw-la i_o abrogamus_fw-la yet_o since_o these_o several_a noun_n be_v govern_v by_o the_o same_o verb_n and_o no_o distinction_n put_v it_o will_v prove_v as_o well_o a_o necessity_n of_o a_o continual_a succession_n of_o apostle_n prophet_n and_o evangelist_n as_o of_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n which_o be_v more_o then_o either_o they_o can_v show_v or_o pretend_v they_o can_v so_o that_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o follow_v that_o these_o be_v then_o give_v to_o do_v this_o till_o then_o and_o not_o a_o succession_n of_o they_o promise_v till_o then_o to_o do_v this_o and_o so_o we_o receive_v and_o retain_v the_o scripture_n wherein_o what_o they_o teach_v be_v contain_v as_o we_o will_v any_o thing_n else_o that_o have_v as_o general_a and_o ancient_a a_o tradition_n if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o need_v no_o more_o for_o if_o he_o say_v that_o man_n be_v toss_v for_o all_o the_o scripture_n i_o answer_v so_o be_v they_o for_o all_o their_o doctor_n nay_o if_o these_o keep_v any_o from_o be_v toss_v it_o be_v the_o scripture_n which_o do_v it_o upon_o which_o their_o authority_n be_v by_o they_o found_v upon_o their_o own_o interpretation_n and_o reason_n who_o yet_o will_v not_o give_v we_o leave_v to_o build_v any_o thing_n upon_o we_o out_o of_o plain_a place_n and_o though_o they_o tell_v we_o that_o we_o can_v know_v the_o scripture_n but_o from_o the_o church_n they_o be_v yet_o fain_o as_o appear_v to_o prove_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n out_o of_o scripture_n which_o make_v i_o ask_v they_o in_o the_o word_n of_o their_o own_o campian_n and_o with_o much_o more_o cause_n nihilne_n pudet_fw-la labyrinthi_n eight_o there_o follow_v another_o reason_n to_o this_o sense_n that_o reason_n not_o be_v able_a to_o show_v man_n a_o way_n to_o eternal_a happiness_n and_o without_o such_o a_o one_o man_n will_v fail_v of_o the_o end_n to_o which_o he_o be_v ordain_v it_o must_v be_v propose_v by_o a_o infallible_a authority_n in_o so_o plain_a a_o manner_n as_o even_o the_o simple_a may_v be_v capable_a of_o it_o which_o be_v perform_v by_o our_o saviour_n it_o must_v be_v convey_v to_o succeed_a age_n by_o those_o who_o hear_v it_o from_o he_o and_o whensoever_o this_o thread_n fail_v mankind_n be_v leave_v without_o a_o guide_n to_o inevitable_a ruin_n i_o answer_v that_o though_o all_o this_o grant_v it_o prove_v not_o against_o we_o for_o we_o have_v the_o scripture_n come_v down_o to_o we_o relate_v christ_n doctrine_n and_o write_v by_o those_o that_o hear_v it_o which_o the_o simple_a be_v capable_a of_o understanding_n i_o mean_v as_o much_o as_o be_v plain_a and_o more_o be_v not_o necessary_a since_o other_o question_n may_v as_o well_o be_v suffer_v without_o harm_n as_o those_o between_o the_o jesuit_n and_o the_o dominican_n about_o praedetermination_n and_o between_o the_o dominican_n and_o almost_o all_o the_o rest_n about_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n and_o those_o who_o be_v not_o neither_o be_v they_o capable_a out_o of_o scripture_n to_o discern_v the_o true_a church_n much_o less_o by_o any_o of_o those_o note_n which_o require_v much_o understanding_n and_o learning_n as_o conformity_n with_o the_o ancient_n and_o such_o like_a nineth_o the_o same_o answer_n i_o give_v to_o this_o serve_v also_o to_o the_o follow_a word_n of_o saint_n austin_n for_o whereas_o mr._n montague_n conclude_v that_o he_o can_v not_o mean_v the_o scripture_n as_o a_o competent_a rule_n to_o mankind_n which_o consist_v most_o of_o simple_a person_n because_o there_o have_v be_v continual_a alteration_n about_o the_o sense_n of_o important_a place_n i_o answer_v that_o i_o may_v as_o well_o conclude_v by_o the_o same_o logic_n that_o neither_o be_v the_o church_n a_o competent_a guide_n because_o in_o all_o age_n there_o have_v also_o be_v dispute_n not_o only_o about_o her_o authority_n but_o even_o which_o be_v she_o and_o to_o whatsoever_o reason_n he_o impute_v this_o to_o the_o same_o may_v we_o the_o other_o as_o to_o negligence_n pride_n praejudication_n and_o the_o like_a and_o if_o he_o please_v to_o search_v i_o very_o believe_v he_o will_v find_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v both_o easy_a to_o be_v know_v then_o the_o church_n and_o that_o it_o be_v as_o easy_a to_o know_v what_o these_o teach_v as_o when_o that_o have_v define_v since_o they_o hold_v no_o decree_n of_o she_o bind_v de_fw-la fide_fw-la without_o a_o confirmation_n of_o the_o pope_n who_o can_v never_o be_v know_v infallibl_o to_o be_v a_o pope_n because_o a_o secret_a simony_n make_v he_o none_o no_o not_o to_o be_v a_o christian_n because_o want_v of_o due_a intention_n in_o the_o baptizer_n make_v he_o none_o whereof_o the_o latter_a be_v always_o possible_a and_o the_o first_o in_o some_o age_n likely_a and_o in_o hard_a question_n a_o readiness_n to_o yield_v when_o they_o shall_v be_v explain_v i_o think_v shall_v serve_v aswell_o as_o a_o readiness_n to_o assent_v to_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o church_n when_o those_o shall_v be_v pronounce_v ten_o he_o say_v that_o the_o scripture_n must_v be_v keep_v safe_a in_o some_o hand_n who_o authority_n must_v beget_v our_o
acceptance_n of_o it_o which_o be_v no_o other_o than_o the_o church_n of_o all_o age_n we_o have_v no_o more_o reason_n to_o believe_v that_o it_o have_v preserve_v that_o free_a from_o corruption_n than_o itself_o in_o a_o continual_a visibilitie_n i_o answer_v that_o neither_o to_o give_v authority_n to_o scripture_n nor_o to_o the_o keep_n of_o they_o be_v require_v a_o continual_a visibility_n of_o a_o no-way_n err_v body_n of_o christian_n the_o writer_n of_o they_o give_v they_o their_o authority_n among_o christian_n nor_o can_v the_o church_n move_v any_o other_o and_o that_o they_o be_v the_o writer_n we_o receive_v from_o the_o general_a tradition_n and_o testimony_n of_o the_o first_o christian_n not_o from_o any_o follow_a church_n who_o can_v know_v nothing_o of_o it_o but_o from_o they_o for_o for_o those_o part_n which_o be_v then_o doubt_v of_o by_o such_o as_o be_v not_o condemn_v for_o it_o by_o the_o rest_n why_o may_v not_o we_o remain_v in_o the_o same_o suspense_n of_o they_o that_o they_o do_v and_o for_o their_o be_v keep_v and_o convey_v this_o be_v not_o do_v only_o by_o their_o church_n but_o by_o other_o as_o by_o the_o greek_n and_o their_o be_v no_o reason_n to_o say_v that_o to_o the_o keep_n and_o transmit_v of_o record_n safe_o it_o be_v require_v to_o understand_v they_o perfect_o since_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v keep_v and_o transmit_v by_o the_o jew_n who_o yet_o be_v so_o capable_a of_o err_v that_o out_o of_o it_o they_o look_v for_o a_o temporal_a king_n when_o it_o speak_v of_o a_o spiritual_a and_o i_o think_v the_o testimony_n be_v great_a of_o a_o church_n which_o contradict_v the_o scripture_n then_o of_o one_o which_o do_v not_o since_o no_o man_n witness_v be_v so_o soon_o to_o be_v take_v as_o when_o against_o himself_o and_o so_o their_o testimony_n be_v more_o receiveable_a which_o be_v give_v to_o the_o scripture_n by_o which_o themselves_o be_v condemn_v beside_o the_o general_a reverence_n which_o ever_o have_v be_v give_v to_o these_o book_n and_o the_o continual_a use_n of_o they_o together_o with_o several_a party_n have_v always_o their_o eye_n upon_o each_o other_o each_o desirous_a to_o have_v somewhat_o to_o accuse_v in_o their_o adversary_n give_v we_o a_o great_a certainty_n that_o these_o be_v the_o same_o writing_n than_o we_o have_v that_o any_o other_o ancient_a book_n be_v any_o other_o ancient_a author_n and_o we_o need_v not_o to_o have_v any_o err_a company_n preserve_v to_o make_v we_o sure_a of_o it_o yet_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o infallible_a a_o depositarie_n as_o she_o be_v have_v suffer_v some_o variety_n to_o creep_v into_o the_o copy_n in_o some_o less_o material_a thing_n nay_o and_o some_o whole_a book_n as_o they_o themselves_o say_v to_o be_v lose_v and_o if_o they_o say_v how_o then_o can_v that_o be_v rule_n whereof_o part_n be_v lose_v i_o reply_v that_o we_o be_v excuse_v if_o we_o walk_v by_o all_o the_o rule_n that_o we_o have_v and_o that_o this_o make_v as_o much_o against_o tradition_n be_v the_o rule_n since_o the_o church_n have_v not_o look_v better_a to_o god_n unwritten_a word_n then_o to_o his_o write_a and_o if_o she_o pretend_v she_o have_v let_v she_o tell_v we_o the_o cause_n why_o antichrist_n come_v be_v defer_v which_o be_v a_o tradition_n of_o saint_n paul_n to_o the_o thessalonian_o and_o which_o without_o impudence_n she_o can_v pretend_v to_o have_v lose_v and_o if_o again_o they_o say_v god_n have_v preserve_v all_o necessary_a tradition_n i_o reply_v so_o have_v he_o all_o necessary_a scripture_n for_o by_o not_o be_v preserve_v it_o become_v to_o we_o not_o necessary_a since_o we_o can_v be_v bind_v to_o believe_v and_o follow_v that_o we_o can_v find_v but_o beside_o i_o believe_v that_o which_o be_v ever_o necessary_a be_v contain_v in_o what_o remain_v for_o pappias_n say_v of_o saint_n mark_n that_o he_o write_v all_o that_o saint_n peter_n preach_v as_o irenaeus-doth_a that_o luke_n 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